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Yeah, hating on my plan seems to be "cool" so I won't think they are scum just because of it. I'd want them to take a stance on the Paqman/VE issue though, at least so we can start to scumhunt properly.
Oh, and another thing I screwed up: In this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=329128¤tpage=9#179 It should read like this instead (the are parts that were a little bit wrong):
On April 21 2012 10:37 gonzaw wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 09:52 johnnywup wrote: I think the plan falls apart if there isn't either a vig or a tracker, which is why I brought up that it's possible we don't have a vig. And what stops mafia from claiming vig then killing? Tracker sees that they kill the person that they kill, but hey it's a misfire right? Possibly, then if we policy lynch failed vig shots we could possibly waste lynches killing townies. But we wouldn't know anyways. So I feel like the plan is flawed from that perspective. If mafia claim vig, and claim to shoot a target, and then do so with their own KP, this can happen: - The Goon claimed vig, and he uses his KP to shoot his claimed target: Then he wastes his other KP. If he was real vig, then there would be an additional KP, but in this case there isn't. In this case he HAS to claim that the target of scum's KP got Jailed, which can bring problems to him depending on the real JKs, for instance if there is no JK he's fucked).
In this case, a tracker on him will watch him visit his claimed target Also, in this case (if a tracker tracks him), they can't "shoot" someone, claim their shot failed and say his target was GF, because the tracker will instantly know it's bullshit.
- The GF claimed vig and he uses the Goon's KP to shoot his claimed target: Same as above, but only the Goon will use his KP. So if a tracker tracks him, he will know he didn't shoot his target and will know he's scum.
I guess this means that maybe the GF's won't fake-claim vig, and the Goons will instead? In that case, if we ever lynch him, he will flip Goon and we will know 100% that he was scum when he's lynched. If he was GF and we lynched him, since he would flip GF we wouldn't be 100% sure he was scum. So to fake-claim, scum have to choose between: - Goon claiming:
Pros: Being protected from tracker's results Cons: Not creating confusion if they ever get lynched. Having to rely on JK's to claim their shots
- Godfather claiming:
Pros: Creating confusion if they ever get lynched, Cons: Relying on JK's to claim their shots. Not being protected from tracker's results.
Cons from both of them: If they don't want to rely on JKs to claim their shots, scum have to fake a claimed shot on a target, and say that his target is GF after there is no kill the next day. This will lead them to a 1v1.
Weird Scenario that they can use: If a Goon claims vig, that night he can use his KP to shoot a GF; then the next day he claims that scum's KP was blocked by a JK AND that his target is GF. Trackers on him will see him shooting the GF, so that may "confirm" him, although it seems too wild (but well, I'm editing this post so I am free to put anything I want, so fuck you )
The point is that they have to choose, they HAVE to do something. We will force them to react to our plans, and hopefully they fuck up their plans/fake-claims and we catch them easily.
(also added some bolded things to make it more pretty :3 )
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On April 21 2012 15:17 slOosh wrote: Haven't had a chance to properly read the thread yet, but what's to say scum won't just shoot the vigs?
Then let them, vigs are a hindrance this game and we'd be better without them. Of course, we'd be better with them being killed at night (where they will flip GF and we will know 100% they are vigs) and not by lynching them at day (where we won't know whether they were vigs or GFs).
I'm waiting for your other thoughts sloosh
Oh, another thing: If we ever kill a Goon, and it's confirmed that there are at least 2 JKs, then they should claim and medic each other each night to make us win 100%.
That can happen if: -No vigs claim, AND only 1 tracker claims after all trackers are told to claim (for instance). -Or none of them claim or something.
And of course if scum don't cc, but in that case there will be 1 more claim than usual who will be confirmed scum.
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On April 21 2012 15:50 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm done talking about claiming plans. Anyone who has a role is free to speculate however they choose. You're giving scum all the information they need.
I've made my opinion known. I feel like it town wants to adopt this ridiculous claim plan, then JKs and Trackers are going to be forced to participate. I wouldn't advocate participating in the plan in the first place.
Anyway, my vote on gonzaw stands - especially now that he thinks I'm scum because I disagree with a mass-claim plan. Unbelievable.
Okay, so you are going to ignore my case against you then?
I already said that you disagreeing with my plan was totally expected of you. What was not expected of you was:: -Discrediting my plan based on a stupid "You can't assume the JKs will cooperate" point -You contradicting yourself by actually saying that you would want the JKs to cooperate.
Anyways, it seems you didn't pressure me like others said (it was obvious you didn't just "pressure" me though, just reading your filter makes it apparent) and will stick to your "gonzaw scumslipped" version.
Also, you seem to ignore everything else as well. We were discussing Paqman's behaviour, and Matt's suspicious behaviour too (for instance). That discussion wasn't about "claiming plans", so why didn't you feel like discussing it?
To Janaan:
On April 21 2012 15:52 Janaan wrote: Here's my take on the whole vig claiming issue. I think it's a bad idea for a vig to shoot without claiming. The problem for me is that if vigs don't claim and get lynched, we won't really have any idea that the GF flip wasn't true, which would cause confusion. The only solution is for them to claim ahead of time.
However, I'm not ok with just a mass claim on N1 like Gonzaw has suggested, as that could lead to scum just shooting the vigs before they can shoot, taking away a valuable asset to the town.
What I would suggest is that on N1, vigs claim AND fire, shooting into any lurkers we have. If mafia want to fake-claim, then what this policy would force them to do is use a night kill on a lurker instead of an active town, which would actually help the town weed out lurkers, and make it harder on scum to hide, and save an active town member. Therefore it's less likely that a fake-claim will occur (WIFOM I know, but I still think it's logical) It will also get all the vig shots out of the way so scum can't claim vig later on.
The problem with this is that in a way it's a waste of the town's resources by aiming at lurkers and not directly at scum. I still think that minimizing the confusion caused if vigs flip is at least potentially worth something, though. The other problem is that we may not HAVE any lurkers, in which case we'd need to try something else. What that would be I'm not sure, but this plan WILL NOT work without obvious lurkers to shoot, since one of it's major advantages is making it less likely that scum will claim.
Any thoughts/comments? Think this is a good idea? Tell me why. Same for if you think it's a terrible plan.
I'll be going to bed in a minute, I'll be back tomorrow.
I like it that you are trying to bring new ideas to the table (so I guess this is not a "very bad 1st post" from yours )
Okay, answer me these questions then: 1)What happens if we lynch a GF (someone flips GF) on D1 then? (in your plan vigs claim in N1) 2)If all vigs shoot "lurkers" on N1, what happens if there are 3 vigs and the 3 lurkers are town? What happens if there is a KP unaccounted for? What happens if town wanted someone else dead, and some people actually thought a targeted lurker was town or had better candidates in mind? 3)Why would you want to protect vigs? They are Millers who flip GF upon death and can't actually shoot GFs. Why would you NOT want scum to shoot them on N1? How are they a "valuable asset" in this case? 4)Who decides who shoots who? Remember this from the OP:
Two Vigilantes shooting the same target use both their bullets.
2 or more vigs can shoot the same guy, which leads me to the next point:
5)What happens if a scum claims vig "after" someone else claimed vig and he claims he targeted a "lurker" that another vig targeted? Would you believe they are 2 vigs that were lucky enough to target the same player, or that one is a vig and the other one a scum that just chose to "hide" behind the other vig so he didn't have to waste the Goon's KP?
Final question: What do you think about VE, his "case" and my case against him? And what about other players that have been the focus of attention lately?
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About the plan:
On April 22 2012 01:28 Mementoss wrote: Despite myself making a plan for vigs im starting to think its going to be impossible to get everyone to agree to one plan, and none of the plans work unless all vigs on on board. Vigs just keep your actions beneficial to the town and think about the consequences. I still really think vigs should play like vets and try to soak up night kills, confirming themselves not real GFs.
Sadly I have to agree with this. (I was going to comment about layabout's points and other people, but it will only clogg up the thread, so I'll leave it be).
If some people agree with my plan, while others don't, then it's possible the real vigs are the ones opposed to my plan, meaning even if a majority agrees with it (which is not the case) it won't do any good.
You know, I'm pretty sure if we ever lynch a GF he WILL claim vigilante beforehand, and will make sure to do it at the last minute (so we can't switch the lynch to someone else, or if we do scum control who gets lynched).
Let's see if we can agree on something at least:
- If a vig ever shoots, he should claim right before the deadline, claim his target, and post convincing reasoning on why he targeted said player (just like in every game).
- If a vig didn't shoot, and is getting lynched, he should claim in advance so we can leave him (to confirm himself with his night action), and so we can hunt Goons, since it's more likely a GF will fake-claim vig in that situation. After he performs his night action, depending on what happens that night, we decide what to do with that claimed vig.
At least this will buffer the chaos a GF lynch flip would make by making us redirect our focus somewhere else before that happens.
To VE:
On April 22 2012 00:46 VisceraEyes wrote: gonzaw's response to my vote was terribad. Everyone should be voting for him or explaining why he's town plz.
For anyone who's all like "Hey I don't think scum would stick their neck out with some plan", I say only "OH REALLY FOOL? You don't think scum would be willing to trade a modicum of suspicion on them for the identities of all of our vigs?"
He's pushing a scum agenda in trying to fish for claims, and I for one will NOT ALLOW IT!
You keep ignoring my case, and you don't really state why my plan has a scum agenda behind it. Remember the vigs hurt town this game, outing them before they hurt town is the opposite of a "scum agenda"
(PRE EDIT: Now that Mementos (I think) pointed it out, I realise that if X vigs claim, scum will know how many trackers/JKs are around, and if scum fake-claim vig then we won't know how many other blues are around yet scum will. I didn't really think of this, and even though it's not that big of a deal in comparison to the other benefits from my plan, it's a significant con)
I'm scumhunting as well, I'm not ROL on Purgatory Mafia that just discussed his "bad" plan and never did shit. I'm trying to contribute to the game too. Are you saying I'm scum and I'm faking to scumhunt as well?
And again, you IGNORE everything else going on in the thread. You ignore the Paqman dilemma. You ignore the Mattchew one. You ignore the marvellosity one as well
You know, kind of how you acted in LI, not caring about the game. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt because you are acting quite aggressively, not like your meta from that game, but if you want to convince me you are town you have to care about the game.
To Mattchew:
On April 22 2012 02:31 Mattchew wrote: Why is paqman's only behaviour and mine suspicious? Do you find me to actually be more suspicious than paqman?
What do you think about VE then? And what do you think about this plan thing and me "scumslipping" or some shit?
Paqman does flipflop around too much, but other than that I don't find him suspicious. I'd like your thoughts on other matters first Matt, and of course other people's thoughts on Paq and VE. However I dunno why it seems to me you are actively avoiding the VE thing or trying to draw attention somewhere else than on VE. So please don't avoid it.
You ignored all that was happening in the thread to make a half-assed FoS on Paqman It reminded me of how Toad played on LI (not caring shit about what happened in the thread and FoSing someone completely different to disrupt town). So yeah, I found that suspicious, even more so than Paqman at that point (I think he's most likely town at this point).
I have to agree with you on something though:
About Daniel:
On April 22 2012 04:02 St.Daniel wrote: It's so fucking hard to keep up with everything when you are at a camp with a crappy internet connection XD I've read everything and I can't conclude anything with a confident, but I do have some ideas based on my observation so far. I'll post again as soon as I put some of pieces together.
And there is no need to be hostile at each this early in game, because thst's EXACTLY what they (scum) want. As long as we keep expressing ideas without trying to bite each other's head off. Remember, keep it simple and clear. <3 TL.
I don't really like this post either. Too "neutral" and kind of apologetic, without contributing at all. For instance the bolded part is all fluff and irrelevant (specially since nobody was that "hostile" to each other). I'll wait till you "post again soon and put some pieces together"; hopefully it's very soon
To Risen
On April 22 2012 03:04 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2012 02:54 layabout wrote: Anybody feel like Risen is hustlin' us? I think you're making up bullshit to try and push an easy wagon on me. ##vote layabout I'm done for now. I'll change my vote if someone does something scummy but I don't see anything and I think someone trying to push a wagon at this point is our best bet. I'll vote for the hydra too.
Okay, so you don't find "anyone" scummy by now?
So, tell me this then: What do you find not scummy about VE? What do you find not scummy about Paqman? What do you find not scummy about Mattchew? What do you find not scummy about marv?
If you don't think someone is scummy, while other people in the thread do, then you ought to post your reasoning and thoughts about said player and why you don't think he's scummy, because that player is a major point of discussion in the thread and it's your duty as town (if you are) to contribute to the thread regarding the major points of discussion.
Again, not caring about the game, or just saying "Meh, I don't think all the people being discussed are scummy, here I'll vote a completely irrelevant dude and FoS him and put all my attention to him" is exactly what Toad did in LI, and I find that sort of behaviour very suspicious.
Also, what do you mean by the bolded bit? And why would you vote the hydra? You think he's scum? Why?
@Jitsu: Hey Jitsu-part-of-the-hydra, would you mind posting your thoughts on the game so far? @sloosh: You are also making a whole lotta effort in ignoring everything that's happening in the thread. Care to contribute something else?
About Ottoxlul: I didn't find his posting suspicious, at least when this thread was at the "plans" stage. I'd want him to take stances on these past few issues. About Paqman, marv, Matt, Risen, etc.
About marv: I don't like his somewhat lack of effort in the beginning of this day, yet I don't find him that suspicious as some people have said. He's got quite a few votes very fast too, which always makes me nervous about the legitimacy of wagons. However, I don't really see him as town, and I could see him being scum, so he wouldn't be a bad lynch candidate.
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Questions and shit to people:
On April 22 2012 06:04 slOosh wrote: Gonzaw if you don't like my posting style in bigger games, that's fine. I'm here so you can ask me what you want to. I'll be building my case against VE in the meantime.
I want you to post your thoughts on the recent events. As soon as you came back you just asked laya about Risen and reacted to him later, I didn't see you posting any thoughts of your own, which is what I found odd. At least in LI you posted some thoughts about some things.
On April 22 2012 06:02 BlazingJitsu wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2012 05:59 gonzaw wrote: @Jitsu: Hey Jitsu-part-of-the-hydra, would you mind posting your thoughts on the game so far?
The lesser head is currently absorbed in the wonderful world of D3 open beta. Do you have a more specific question than that?
-Blazinghand
I just want him to contribute something at some point. I know what scum hydras are capable of doing with their both heads, I did it as a scum hydra on Newbie IV.
On April 22 2012 06:03 Ottoxlol wrote: As a townie, I find myself useful pressuring everyone to clear up their game. If I were the one coming up with a plan we discuss i would be the one spamming the thread. If they don't understand something, after asking it twice and getting the same answer they get on my watchlist. I would rather not accuse someone because he is dumb, that's not scummy enough for me.
It seems like we won't have a consensus on the vig situation, but it was a very helpful debate to get infos. Too bad not everyone posted yet.
Same question I asked Risen: If you don't think the players discussed at the moment are scummy, explain why you don't find them scummy.
You should discuss with town about these players, even if you don't think they are scum, so we know what stances you have and have an easier time figuring out your alignment
On April 22 2012 06:10 Zephirdd wrote: I see gonzaw arrived a reasonable way to "plan" vigilantes here. That is, a vigilante should just play as a normal vigi.
I also want them to claim way before they get lynched (if they are set to be lynched) so we can focus our attention on catching Goons and letting the vig confirm himself with night actions.
I still can't be sure who I should vote. I see marvellosity is leading the votecount, can someone provide me a link to a case of his, or even a page where I can find it?
The game barely started, why are you saying that? You don't need to instantly know who to vote, that's not what the 1st half of D1 is about and you know it.
This 1st half is there to pressure people, contributing, making sure people know you are town and prodding people to determine their alignments.
So Zephird, it would suffice if you would just comment on the things happening. For instance, what do you think of VE? And what about Mattchew and Paqman?
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@Blazing: I guess that the "timing" thing he mentions is the same one I'm accusing Mattchew and Risen of:
There is a lot of shit going on in the thread, but instead of commenting on it, or posting thoughts about it you ignore all of it and go FoS someone completely irrelevant to the current discussion, and then you continue to ignore it.
For instance, you don't mention VE, nor Paqman at all and those were "cases" and discussions that happened before you made your marv case.
So yeah, now that I notice that it does seem suspicious of you too.
Speaking of which, please tell me what you think of VE, Paqman and Mattchew, and tell me why you ignored all 3 of them until now.
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To Matt:
On April 22 2012 07:22 Mattchew wrote: As I said before in the thread I don't like to discuss or direct blues. Why would i partake in a conversation that I don't care at all about? Instead I am actively trying to find scum, not yelling at everyone that disagrees with me and calling them scummy like you, VE, Risen, and Paqman.
I care what is happening in the thread, just not for the actual vig conversation. I am a suspicious of VE because he seems to be convinced by very little that you are scum. I am still suspicious of Paqman because he has seemed to tunnel me because he was pressured. I am suspicous of St Daniel because that first post was fucking terrible. I'm less suspicous of marv but I do like the players pushing him (laya and blazing) as they seem townie to me.
I am now going out to dinner a movie with the girlfriend... I might be back on in like 6 - 7 hours if she falls asleep before me.
If you cared why didn't you comment on it at least? Why didn't you say "I don't care about these plans, they are useless let's hunt for other scum" then? If you are suspicious of VE why didn't you state so before?
If you cared about what was happening in the thread...why did you ignore it completely?
To BJ
On April 22 2012 07:13 BlazingJitsu wrote:The entire discussion about mass role claims, and your stupid mass roleclaim in particular, is retarded. Everything that percipitated from it is retarded. My notes for mattchew currently are: "suggests a policy lynch of BM. Pushes paqman semi-shittily" My current notes for Paqman are: "worthless" Clearly you didn't read my filter, because I haven't ignored VE. Go read it. My current notes for VE is: "worthless townie", building off of stuff I've already said briefly about VE. See everyone seems to think VE is somehow useful as a town player, when in actuality he's utterly totally and inexhaustibly bad ( see SOAF mafiaIn any case, Marv was hiding in plain sight so i called him out. Also I didn't FoS anyone. I fucking voted that motherfucker with the intention of burying him. And... seriously dude. just read my filter before you quesiton me about it. Your pressuring skills are pretty bad.
Well I'll give it to you, I did not notice that part where you talk to VE.
Anyways, your case is not that bad since you (apparently) do that as town too (like when you were "traitor" in LI and FoSed ST/4Face out of nowhere).
So, apart from those "notes" what specifically do you think of Matt and Paqman? In those "notes" of yours you don't mention anything about what you think their alignment are.
On April 22 2012 07:14 BlazingJitsu wrote: As to why I haven't talked about literally EVERYONE in this game, it's because I'm not some shitty dick player who writes massive illegible posts that need over 9000 [horizontal rule] tags just to seperate his stuff. I push my strongest scumread and don't clutter up the thread with bad clutter. I've pushed what I need to push. If you don't like the fact that I'm not pressuring all 18 people in this game, then you can go take a hike. I don't need your "help" to hunt the scum in this game. In fact, given your skill level, I'm probably better off if you actively work against me. Please do so.
-Blazinghand
Oh that's cute. I don't really want to start a flame war with you, but if I were you I'd think twice before saying your "method" is better than mine.
+ Show Spoiler +Also apparently that contradicts what you said earlier: Also, your new post formatting is quite legible! Much improved from our previous games.
And I've already said it before, but I'll repeat it: The point isn't about "pressuring" everybody and being all over the place. The point is that if there's a major point of discussion in the thread, it's your duty as townie to post your thoughts about it. Why? Because it proves to people that you care about the game. It proves that you are willing to post thoughts of your own without being pressured. It proves that you are transparent with your reads and willing to contribute. It doesn't matter if you just post 2-3 sentences about the issue, you don't need to write an essay about it. But you need to post your thoughts either way, no matter if they are few. If you fail to do this, then people will think you don't care about the game, they will think you are not transparent with your thoughts, they will think that maybe you have a hidden (scum) agenda. It will make people NOT think you are town, and that's bad, very bad. So people, if you are town try to post your thoughts on current events often so we can figure out you are town.
@sloosh: Good post. I want people to post their thoughts about it and about my case against him as well.
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On April 22 2012 07:50 ghost_403 wrote:@BJ + Show Spoiler + 4F doesn't deserve to die in any game. That guy was a genius at finding scum, he just didn't know it. VE is probably scum. Accusing gonzaw of a scumslip is just terribad, and someone of his experience should know better. Also, the idea of a JK working against the town is such a fashion is WTF bad. If he was a noob, I would give him a pass, but he's not. He should know better than that. Sentinel obviously rolled scum this game. His filter has nothing of content, and when layabout called him out, it took him 15 minutes to unlurk, at which point he added nothing to the conversation. He's here, but not contributing at all. I think he would make an excellent Day 1 lynch.
So...will you vote VE or not? Will you vote Sentinel too or not? Why didn't you vote either of them? What are you waiting for?
On April 22 2012 07:47 Ottoxlol wrote: gonzaw:
Yes, if we are discussing a plan or someone makes a case against someone we want to know everyone's opinion. but also town shouldnt post every thought on their mind. If I am not sure about someone and the case against him is really weak, no one will panic or get lynched. I think it is a viable strategy to wait till he comments on other people's cases, if pressured scum will be more careful.
Yes they shouldn't post every though on their mind, but they should comment something at least. Saying "I'm not convinced by X's case on Y" would suffice as well. If player Y is getting a lot of flak though, it would be wise to comment more thoroughly on the situation; either to cement Y's lynch if he thinks the cases are strong, or to convince people not to lynch Y and focus on other things if he thinks the case is weak.
If doing so helps them establish their innocence then it's better for them to do it. Plus, scum are VERY likely to not do that and just fly by doing whatever they want. That is one of the signs I try to find in mafia (apathy, not caring about the game, etc).
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Hey johnny, at first you posted this:
I think [UoN] Sentinel is the scummiest and I will post a case on him in a bit.
So where is that case? You are voting marv now....what about Sentinel? Wasn't Sentinel the "scummiest"? You never mentioned marv
Specially if you take this into account (you said it in a previous post):
Overall I think that the marv case was initially good but marv has shaped it up and I don't think is that scummy anymore.
So BJ's 2nd case convinced you marv was scum, but Sentinel isn't?
Anyways BJ, I have a small feeling marv is scum too, because like you said he didn't contribute with reads, and because of stuff mentioned before... ..but damn the votes on him start piling and piling. For instance layabout voted him without hesitation and then disappeared. Midnight and johnny didn't need too much convincing to vote him either.
This is not majority lynch, marv can get lynched even with 3-4 votes, so I'll wait and take all other possibilities into account.
For instance I don't like how sloosh's case on VE was buried and nobody commented on it, here it is: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=329128¤tpage=18#357
For now I'd prefer a VE lynch rather than a marv one, specially VE put almost 0% effort in scumhunting or even contributing at all so far.
Sentinel, Mattchew Risen could be good choices for a lynch too (Matt and Risen for things I mentioned before, Sentinel because of his lack of contributions and odd posts so far).
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Blazinghand, did you learn anything from LI? Stop tunneling, take a step back and analyse things more objectively.
You think marv is scum, good. Now, are you willing to just tunnel him until the day ends and force everybody into voting him or something? Would you be willing to NOT discuss other lynch candidates and the cases made against them either?
Also although I agree that marv may be scum, I'm not confident in your reads BH (again, for instance take SoaF or LI where you just tunneled townies), so I don't see how this could help at all considering there's a chance you are just wrong and could make us waste all D1.
For instance, another thing: Some of us mentioned how Daniel's fist post was scummy as fuck... ...and again that was buried with all this marv talk. He should definitively be a lynch candidate as well, at least until he contributes more; but that won't happen if this whole "marv tunneling" thing keeps going on.
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EBWOP:
@Marv: Give us your reads NOW.
Post your thoughts on sloosh's and my case against VE, post your thoughts on Paqman's case against Matt.
Also, what do you think of Risen? If you are town don't get aggressive to BH because of his tunneling and prove to us you are town by contributing. The only other alternative is death, so choose wisely.
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On April 22 2012 08:43 johnnywup wrote: yes gonzaw i can in fact change my mind. I found my case on sentinel was subpar so i didn't post it. whats wrong with that?
It's wrong because you are not being transparent, and it makes it look like you just FoSed Sentinel to see if someone could jump on him as well but didn't really care about Sentinel in the first place, and saw the slightest opportunity to jump on marv and justify your vote. Is that the case or is it not? I won't know if you aren't trasnparent.
I'd still like to see why you think Sentinel is scum though, if you think it's "subpar"...then make it better.
@marv: You are not helping. Ignore BH and do what I asked.
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On April 22 2012 08:50 johnnywup wrote: Make it better? I think the case was bad and I didn't have enough evidence to make it a good case. So get off me. I don't care what it makes me look like. If I have a bad case and I post it and people recognize that it's bad then that's worse. I'm being perfectly transparent that my case was bad. I don't have to post anything for you.
No, you weren't transparent about your case being bad. You said that after being called out. And stop getting butthurt about it too, if you say that Sentinel is the scummiest player out there and then you completely ignore him to vote another player you know it won't look good, so don't get all "mightier than thou" on my ass.
On April 22 2012 08:48 marvellosity wrote: Yet you fail to answer any of my questions.
Why don't you look at the filter list and ask what about 6 of the non-posters have done?
I've cast my opinion on matt's case - I think it isn't right, and I've provided the reasons. I've also cast my opinion that VE's objection to gonzaw's claim was REALLY BAD, and he never backed it up.
Please, go ahead and tell me I've done less than a bunch of other lurkers in the game.
Forget about the non-posters. It doesn't have anything to do with inactives, it has to do with you not contributing anything useful to town and being evasive.
Don't tell me if you thought VE's objection to my claim was "REALLY BAD", tell me if you think VE is scum or not. Go read sloosh's case and tell me "I wholeheartedly agree with this case and VE is scum" or tell me "No, this case is bogus and VE is most likely stupid town, so get off him".
You are just retelling what people do, you say "Oh, VE did a very bad thing" or "Oh, Matt's case on Paqman was bad". But you don't take any stance on anybody's alignment. You don't say "I think VE is scum" or "I think Matt is town". You don't make contributions about what you think of other players either. You don't say what you think about Matt nor comment on what other people think of him, you don't participate in other things either.
You are getting way overaggressive against BH for some stupid thing like "But you aren't calling out other lurkers, why should you call me out?" and you fail to do what other people ask you to do.
If you keep up like this I'll just assume you are scum and try to find the rest of your team.
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EBWOP:
There's a thought in the back of my head that tells me "What if this guy is acting just like michaelthe or ST from LI? Maybe he's just acting stupidly like that just because".
But no marv, you are not michaelthe nor ST. When you are town you contribute, you make yourself apparent town as well. Look at LI, and then look at this game. You are not trying to help town right now, so it's not "Oh this is just how he plays" or anything like that.
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BH you too
Read sloosh's case against VE, read my case against VE and tell me to my face whether you think he's scum (and may support his lynch today) or not; and post reasoning for thinking either of them.
If marv doesn't get lynched today, who would you lynch BH?
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On April 22 2012 09:10 BlazingJitsu wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2012 09:05 gonzaw wrote: BH you too
Read sloosh's case against VE, read my case against VE and tell me to my face whether you think he's scum (and may support his lynch today) or not; and post reasoning for thinking either of them.
If marv doesn't get lynched today, who would you lynch BH? I would lynch Marv.
-Blazinghand
*sigh*
The worst thing is that you are probably town and doing this on purpose, so you'll keep doing it unless scum/vigs kill you.
I'll repeat the question again: Other than marv, who would you lynch? Or more generally: Other than marv, who do you think is scum and why?
@ghost: You said this previously:
On April 22 2012 08:12 ghost_403 wrote: @gonzaw: I think a town should be focused in what they do, so I don't like throwing votes around all over the place. If I had to vote for one of them right now, I would vote sentinel over VE. My only reservations about voting VE at the moment is that I think he should play a better scum game, but I can see his scumslip case as something he was hoping other townies would catch on to and run with.
So, you think VE and Sentinel are scum, yet you don't vote them. Why isn't voting for someone you think is scum "not being focused in what a town does"? You are not "throwing your votes around all over the place", you are voting to lynch someone you think is scum.
Also, what made you change your mind from:
On April 22 2012 07:50 ghost_403 wrote: VE is probably scum. Accusing gonzaw of a scumslip is just terribad, and someone of his experience should know better. Also, the idea of a JK working against the town is such a fashion is WTF bad. If he was a noob, I would give him a pass, but he's not. He should know better than that.
To:
On April 22 2012 08:12 ghost_403 wrote: My only reservations about voting VE at the moment is that I think he should play a better scum game, but I can see his scumslip case as something he was hoping other townies would catch on to and run with.
??
Please read my case against him (here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=329128¤tpage=12#226 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=329128¤tpage=17#333) And sloosh's case against him (here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=329128¤tpage=18#357 )
And post more opinions about it, or say if you agree with all the points or not.
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CAN SOMEBODY FUCKING CHECK SLOOSH'S CASE AGAINST VE?
THANK YOU FOR YOUR ATTENTION
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On April 22 2012 09:35 ghost_403 wrote: As far as this change of heart, I don't see it as a change of heart. Not all bad play is scummy play. What I was trying to get across there is that I think that Sentinel is the better lynch out of the two of them.
Did you read sloosh's case then? Do you agree or not with it? Do you think all the points he made were "bad play"? If so then please explain it more thoroughly
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Okay people, I'm going out so hopefully you guys start posting your thoughts about VE, and about Daniel as well (don't let him fly under the radar).
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yo people wahts auP?
I heard you got a lot of votes flying around, and on BIll Murray too? (didn't read the thread lol!) Did he scumslip or some shit? Why aren't there mote votests on VE?
Woop woppity wopp
sloosh I like that case on VE, so keep it up, so did people talk about it as well? BH did youstop being an asshole? layabout I didn't see any MS PAINT from you, that's VERY SUSPICIOUS EYAH! I expected more from you *sad facey*
Woot okay onna go to sleep. See you in a couple of hours.
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