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On May 09 2012 10:11 marvellosity wrote: Yes, for example the much rehashed katina argument, and frustrated at the state of the game.
At the risk of repeating myself, Nova is my strongest read, layabout also has a good chance of flipping scum - but much like your Ottoxlol argument on Nova, my gut tells me layabout has a higher chance of being townie than nova.
Okay, that is understandable.
Eiii, l10f, grush, papapanda, Froggynoddy, you guys need to start posting.
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ebwop: I meant your gut feeling, not the "frustration" part.
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Mementoss: What do you think of layabout and my case against him. You didn't make any mention of it.
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On May 09 2012 10:31 Mementoss wrote:Paqman I think your case is very good against Layabout, but a lot of it has been mentioned before. Points 1 2 and 5 look unique and I really like the way they are presented. Point #4 I don't think is the best, I defended Kenpachi do you think I am scum? I am pretty confident that laya or nt are scum but not both. I'm having trouble deciding which is the better lynch. Also this quote in your case caught my eye mainly because of LIII trickery: Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 21:48 layabout wrote: If blubbdavid Nova_Terra and Paqman are the remaining scum then kenpachi has got all of them.
I remember mattchew mentioned his WHOLE scum team in a similar type post. There is a chance that certain people voting quickly on kenpachi could be scum, the remaining left are Nova, Paqman and Froggy.
I called him out on KP because of how hard laya was defending him. Just by this quote:+ Show Spoiler +On May 07 2012 21:51 layabout wrote: frogg we are not lynching kenpachi.
don't be silly. You can see how insistent he is on not wanting to lynch KP. He doesn't follow up with why not, he just blatantly states it. The only legitimate stances that layabout has made are people who he doesn't want to lynch.
blubb wasn't scum, I'm not scum, and Kenpachi was. KP didn't mention his whole team.
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ebwop: I'm not calling you scum for defending KP because I didn't even think that you were "defending" him until you mentioned it. I thought you were just trying to get the votes consolidated. You made your reasons clear, while layabout was just saying no no no.
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laya you're completely avoiding my case against you.
+ Show Spoiler +On May 08 2012 11:56 PaqMan wrote:layabout, and why he's getting my Finger of Suspicion. #1I'll begin with a link to his case against blubby: hereIn that post, layabout makes no mention whatsoever of DYH's case against blubb. Not even a little comment, even though he made it 4 hours after DYH. I think that it's pretty obvious DYH's case on blubb influenced layabout to make his own. So I looked into it more. What struck me as really odd, was the fact that he had no FoS, no read, nothing at all on blubb prior to DYH's case. In fact, layabout's only mention of blubb is when SA asks him what he thinks about blubb, seen here: + Show Spoiler +On May 07 2012 03:18 layabout wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 03:10 SomethingAwesome wrote: I'm beginnging to like you Lay. Now find me scum! =)
What do you think about blubb? I think he is fishy... here: Show nested quote +On May 06 2012 19:50 blubbdavid wrote:I see, Blazinghand is switching cases so it looks like he doesn't sheep l10f. Well, jdup has made a good post regarding layabout's behaviour On May 06 2012 08:46 johnnywup wrote: I think it is condemning, scum over-reacts to things like that (at least i think, ive never actually played scum). Of course laya didn't know kat would be modkilled, which is why it is condemning. If we didn't know kat's flip, it wouldn't be bad for either of them. It's just a townie pushing his reads on another person he thinks is townie, right? Since kat flipped, no. I don't know, the flip makes me think laya is more scummy. It took scum by surprise that Kat was modkilled. This is a strange thing to assert when as a townie you do not know who scum are and if they thought that Katina was coming back or not. Also when he votes for me he emphasises that it is to get me to answer his question. Show nested quote +On May 06 2012 20:32 blubbdavid wrote:layabout is scum. The question is: why would scum push BM? layabout was pushing BM so hard it was not even funny. Ok: layabaout, why were you so fucking desperate in pushing BM? till then, ##vote layaboutOn May 06 2012 19:51 Blazinghand wrote:On May 06 2012 19:50 blubbdavid wrote: I see, Blazinghand is switching cases so it looks like he doesn't sheep l10f. you wanna mess + Show Spoiler + He begins by saying that i am scum. If he believes this then surely that should be the reason for his vote. By saying that he wants a response he gives himself a way to back out of pushing me. If he truly believes that i am scum then he would have no reason to do this. In which he makes no opinion and takes no stance whatsoever. #2And here are two little points that need to be noted: + Show Spoiler [P1] +On May 04 2012 07:35 layabout wrote: BH you are just bitter because you blew your own leg off after you tried to rocket jump with the wrong boots on.
I think killing something awesome could be a good move. If we still have no candidates when i get up then i think we should just lynch BM. What he's saying is that he wants to kill SomethingAwesome, but he's too damn lazy to build a case or make a push on him. He's also practically asking everyone to do the scumhunting for him while he sits back and chills. He doesn't make a read, take a stance, or form an opinion on SA. The only time he ever mentions SA is if he is defending himself. + Show Spoiler [P2] +On May 06 2012 00:55 layabout wrote: we should kill Palmar tomorrow Later on, he posts this little baby. Again, just like with SomethingAwesome, he makes the suggestion of wanting to kill Palmar. He made no case on Palmar besides the little comment. When asked why, he posts this: On May 06 2012 09:23 layabout wrote: @Mementoss i thought we should lynch Palmar over "any other lurker" because he showed basically no interest in the lynch at all. Palmar is lazy as scum but when he town he usually bothers to do ... "stuff". Of course, he had his reasons for it: + Show Spoiler +On May 07 2012 03:50 layabout wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 03:28 Blazinghand wrote:On May 07 2012 03:00 layabout wrote: BH is also criticising me for saying that we should kill the player that he decided to shoot.
False. I am criticizing you for saying we should kill Palmar, and not posting a case against him until 9 hours, after daybreak. Did you actually read my case? On May 07 2012 03:00 layabout wrote: have i missed anything? Yes, my criticism is based on HOW you did what you did, not what you did. Is it really typical layabout play to make a 1-sentence accusation halfway through the night then not follow up with a case until after daybreak? Cause I had some respect for your town play... Yesterday, between the hours of (UK time) 5pm and 1 am i was otherwise engaged. + Show Spoiler +. I posted that "we should kill Palmar" when i heard a knock at the door. Now try think of a way to write that without it sounding lame. And I'm willing to give him benefit of the doubt, mainly because there are other reasons to think he is scum. #3Just about more than half of layabout's posts consist only defending himself. His only other notable thing is when he puts attention and calls out jdub: + Show Spoiler +On May 07 2012 10:00 layabout wrote:@papapanda, The number of players that make sense is far smaller than you appear to think it is. You should treasure the ones that do. Johnnywub:skim through his filter from Area 53 mafia http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=329128&user=99700These are some of his comments (+1 from host) after the game. + Show Spoiler +On May 05 2012 09:18 iGrok wrote: Johnny is probably town MVP. Matt is scum MVP.
Also, well done by scum not to give up when St.Daniel got modkilled. On May 05 2012 09:06 johnnywup wrote: it was too late, i was away and it was 5:01. also fml i feel so shitty now. I had decent reads but I can't convey reads for shit. On May 05 2012 09:28 johnnywup wrote: im sorry i failed you town On May 05 2012 09:35 johnnywup wrote: bleh i feel so guilty for this game. if i conveyed my reads a little better or something i dont know but bleh On May 05 2012 09:41 johnnywup wrote: i thought you were scum mattchew and thats primarily because you allowed an ottox lynch with 2 confirmed scum. but no one listened to me so ugh On May 05 2012 09:49 johnnywup wrote: matt, the timing didn't make sense as town which was my second biggest issue. but no one listened to me. urghh The key things to note are that Johnny: - Posts a lot, this does not necessarily mean that we should expect him to have a massive filter but he does put a lot of time, thought and energy into the game as town.
- He is concerned about communicating his ideas to others and convincing them
- He is working to improve his town game
- He feels like he owes town something
I see no signs of his town game so far. johnnywub is sitting back and watching the thread. When i called him out he instantly de-lurked, said nothing, and left. + Show Spoiler [Today's post's] +On May 07 2012 04:45 johnnywup wrote: I'll be completely honest, I've been addicted to that 999 game so I haven't been posting much.
Also I don't want any gold stars. i looked at a filter, saw something odd, pointed it out. that's what all town should be doing. Speaking of which I'm gonna look over some filters now. I'll report back when I have something substantial On May 07 2012 04:52 johnnywup wrote:lol i love how NT says "it would be correct to be shooting into the lurker crowd" while lurking himself On May 07 2012 04:54 johnnywup wrote: i just noticed that from your post and thought it was interesting. i guess it is rehashing. I'm just agreeing that it's strange and scummy On May 07 2012 05:02 johnnywup wrote: Paqman Marv BH and Mementoss are all saying the same thing at approximately the same time? weird, maybe you just agree with one another and want to quote it as if you found it yourself? O_o But even then, he makes no stance. He doesn't pressure jdub, doesn't make some sort fos, does nothing except call him out for lurking. I would say that that is his only other contributing post. Read through his filter and it becomes apparent that he puts more effort into defending himself than hunting scum. #4The next thing I want to bring up is how quickly he comes to defend Kenpachi. + Show Spoiler +On May 07 2012 21:48 layabout wrote: If blubbdavid Nova_Terra and Paqman are the remaining scum then kenpachi has got all of them.
On May 07 2012 21:51 layabout wrote: frogg we are not lynching kenpachi.
don't be silly. On May 07 2012 22:12 layabout wrote:I would love to know how you felt that this: + Show Spoiler +On May 07 2012 04:37 Nova_Terra wrote: Next, Kenpachi Absolutely worthless, if you consider his connection case useful i dunno what to say Vote: Kenpachi On May 07 2012 13:19 PaqMan wrote:Just found out that I'm probably going to miss the lynch. I guess it doesn't bother anyone how fast a wagon formed on NT? I don't feel comfortable putting my vote back onto him. Hence this quote: Show nested quote +On May 06 2012 07:11 Kenpachi wrote:On May 06 2012 06:48 Blazinghand wrote:Yeah, I shot Palmar. He looked like scum to me. I gave him the benefit of the doubt D1 but he didn't contribute and was silent, as scum Palmar tends to be. Here's my crumb: On May 06 2012 03:27 Blazinghand wrote: Man this situation just makes me want to eat my own heart Type "eat heart of" into google search (but don't hit enter) and it'll suggest "eat heart of palm" Palm -> Palmar, my target. rofl are you kidding me His only post since D2 started. He ninja-voted D1, isn't contributing and the few posts he has are very lackluster. From what I understand Kenpachi is a veteran, yet he's been the least helpful out of everyone (excluding Froggynoddy, who is inactive). Also this gem: + Show Spoiler +On May 05 2012 06:31 Kenpachi wrote:ARE YOU GUYS KIDDING ME? DO YOU NOT NOTICE THE TREND HERE? NT i thought at first was not mafia but then layabout cames along and throws in POLICY LYNCH TIME NO NO NO WTF? NO i believe layabout and NT are mafia together because NT NT had aroused suspicions in thread andended in hotshit. He was completely saved by something so stupid. layabout, as his buttbuddy saves him with such a weak push that only the newbs are following. by experience, policy lynch almost always never works. its a scare tactic, not an actual method used to lynch people, especially day 1 i also believe marvellosity is mafia with them because he said NT is scummy and changes his mind like nothing happened Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 02:43 marvellosity wrote: At the moment Nova looks the scummiest for reasons already expanded upon by others. The fact that so little of anything has occurred today makes Nova's stance that he doesn't want to air his tentative reads all the worse.
Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 05:53 marvellosity wrote: Sold, I don't have a solid scumread on anyone and BM is just useless and anti-town no matter his alignment.
such a contradiction, they were made about 3 hours apart. BM is a potent player and everyone knows that. I feel day 1 lynching a veteran is the worst thing you can do. If i were mafia, id put BM near the top of my priority list just because of his sheer experience. He made his scum reads and calls out who he believes to be the remaining scum team. But he doesn't push for their lynch or pressure them or anything at all. As of now I think Kenpachi is a better option than NT. ##Vote KenpachiI'm hoping I'll make it back before the deadline but I'm not too sure. was the best lynch to support? Why dont you have a look through here and tell me what you learn about kenpachi's play? Then address the cases on the people that should get lynched: Blubbdavid or Nova_Terra or might get mislynched: layabout. On May 07 2012 22:26 layabout wrote:EBWOP*So you are saying that it doesn't matter if your logic for voting on day1 is weak/contradictory/scummy because we have limited information? Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 22:19 froggynoddy wrote:On May 07 2012 22:15 layabout wrote:On May 07 2012 22:07 froggynoddy wrote:EBWOP: was reading through blubb's and then NT's filter's, (NT's attack of him seems odd: did he explain wtf he meant by that?!?) as former being your vote and the latter having the most votes. I'd rather blub defended himself as it will give us more to work with but a lot of what you've said, Laya, seem to be a criticism of blubb's Day 1 vote logic, which as we all know is bound to be weak. Most of our votes were bound to be wrong, and all of our logic to be hugely flawed due to limited evidence. So you are saying that it doesn't matter if your logic for voting on day1 is weak/contracitory/scummy because we have limited information? No, I'm saying that its less likely of being alignment indicative then actual thread activity at this point. But Kenpachi has been more "active" than froggnoddy, Eiii, l10f, ghost_403 johnnywub, grush, mementoss, sinensis and papaganda. He might not even have PC acess at the momnet That post^ is complete BS that I don't even understand how he could have possibly came to that conclusion. The only person he's been more active than is froggynoddy, and even then Froggy's posts have way more quality than KP's does. On May 07 2012 22:35 layabout wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 22:26 froggynoddy wrote:On May 07 2012 22:12 layabout wrote:I would love to know how you felt that this: + Show Spoiler +On May 07 2012 04:37 Nova_Terra wrote: Next, Kenpachi Absolutely worthless, if you consider his connection case useful i dunno what to say Vote: Kenpachi On May 07 2012 13:19 PaqMan wrote:Just found out that I'm probably going to miss the lynch. I guess it doesn't bother anyone how fast a wagon formed on NT? I don't feel comfortable putting my vote back onto him. Hence this quote: Show nested quote +On May 06 2012 07:11 Kenpachi wrote:On May 06 2012 06:48 Blazinghand wrote:Yeah, I shot Palmar. He looked like scum to me. I gave him the benefit of the doubt D1 but he didn't contribute and was silent, as scum Palmar tends to be. Here's my crumb: On May 06 2012 03:27 Blazinghand wrote: Man this situation just makes me want to eat my own heart Type "eat heart of" into google search (but don't hit enter) and it'll suggest "eat heart of palm" Palm -> Palmar, my target. rofl are you kidding me His only post since D2 started. He ninja-voted D1, isn't contributing and the few posts he has are very lackluster. From what I understand Kenpachi is a veteran, yet he's been the least helpful out of everyone (excluding Froggynoddy, who is inactive). Also this gem: + Show Spoiler +On May 05 2012 06:31 Kenpachi wrote:ARE YOU GUYS KIDDING ME? DO YOU NOT NOTICE THE TREND HERE? NT i thought at first was not mafia but then layabout cames along and throws in POLICY LYNCH TIME NO NO NO WTF? NO i believe layabout and NT are mafia together because NT NT had aroused suspicions in thread andended in hotshit. He was completely saved by something so stupid. layabout, as his buttbuddy saves him with such a weak push that only the newbs are following. by experience, policy lynch almost always never works. its a scare tactic, not an actual method used to lynch people, especially day 1 i also believe marvellosity is mafia with them because he said NT is scummy and changes his mind like nothing happened Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 02:43 marvellosity wrote: At the moment Nova looks the scummiest for reasons already expanded upon by others. The fact that so little of anything has occurred today makes Nova's stance that he doesn't want to air his tentative reads all the worse.
Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 05:53 marvellosity wrote: Sold, I don't have a solid scumread on anyone and BM is just useless and anti-town no matter his alignment.
such a contradiction, they were made about 3 hours apart. BM is a potent player and everyone knows that. I feel day 1 lynching a veteran is the worst thing you can do. If i were mafia, id put BM near the top of my priority list just because of his sheer experience. He made his scum reads and calls out who he believes to be the remaining scum team. But he doesn't push for their lynch or pressure them or anything at all. As of now I think Kenpachi is a better option than NT. ##Vote KenpachiI'm hoping I'll make it back before the deadline but I'm not too sure. was the best lynch to support? Why dont you have a look through here and tell me what you learn about kenpachi's play? Then address the cases on the people that should get lynched: Blubbdavid or Nova_Terra or might get mislynched: layabout. Ok, so... are you trying to show me that because he plays like this both as town and scum we should excuse untowny behaviour? I don't like that as an argument as untowny behaviour should always be punished. That being said I understand that perhaps this would be a better job for any vigs we have left. It just seems unlikely unless we do unless we have a pyro. I will keep reading through threads and see if anything convinces me. As I said, other than what I think about lynching into inactives, NT's weird post (see above post) and your hard defence on Katina seem like the strongest indications of scumminess imo. It was more of an "inactivity from a player that's always inactive is meaningless". There is also some merit to the notion that scum will try to lynch Kenpachi.I am not sure what you are trying to say but blue pyro's are trackers not not vigis. Again, you cannot be freaking serious. You pushed for BM's lynch, am I correct? S O HOW ARE YOU DEFENDING KP WHEN KP'S PLAY MATCHES EXACTLY LIKE BM! lurk, lurk, lurk, inactive, spam one-liners, purposely not contribute, purposely play anti-town. KP said that he's so busy he cannot possibly play, but he could have EASILY come up with a small read/fos/case on someone. Instead, he wastes what little time he has to shit up the thread. KP is the most anti-town player in the game right now, and you're defending him hard. Remind me why you wanted BM lynched.
#5 + Show Spoiler +On May 05 2012 07:04 Bill Murray wrote: well, layabout hopping on the lynch makes me really suspect him he would normally leave me around if he's town of my wagon, i would like you all to lynch layabout On May 08 2012 04:22 blubbdavid wrote: layabout is scum, SA is town I will not move my vote from layabout -snipped- Hmm. The victims of our mislynches both suggest to lynch layabout. And so far we're ignoring them.
Why I believe layabout to be scum boils down to; 1) Has nothing on blubb, but as soon as DYH pushes a case and lynch on him, layabout makes a weak case and pushes it forward as if he had been suspecting him for a while. 2) layabout does not create his own scumreads, does not establish his own opinions, and does not make his own stance. He has other people do the work for him, and then he starts pushing reads. Basically, he's not scum hunting. 3) All of layabout's "good, quality posts" are the only ones where he is defending himself, not doing any actual scumhunting. 4) People previously thought his analysis on Kat was an attempt at soft-defending. But after individually separating his posts, we can all clearly see how hard he is defending Kenpachi. KP's play is awfully similar to BM's. 5) I'm restating this one because I feel it's one of the stronger points against layabout: He does not actively hunt scum. All he does is push other people's reads.
I retract my FoS on him. I'm confident that layabout is scum and I want him lynched tomorrow.
^spoilered for reference. Personally I think today's lynch should be between NT and layabout (with my preference of laya, of course)
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#1 + Show Spoiler [p1] +It appears to me that you have expectations of me that you clearly do not have of others and that those expectations are not realistic ones. From the comments you make they would appear to be along these lines: 1. That a player should be voicing suspicions against a player for quite a period of time before posting a case and then voting. 2. That a player should be voicing all of the suspicions that they have First off, wth are you talking about? Unrealistic expectations? I did not state that you should list every single suspicion you have, that's nothing close to what I said. What #1 in my case points out is that *drumline* You had made no previous mention of blubby except this: + Show Spoiler +On May 07 2012 03:18 layabout wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 03:10 SomethingAwesome wrote: I'm beginnging to like you Lay. Now find me scum! =)
What do you think about blubb? I think he is fishy... here: Show nested quote +On May 06 2012 19:50 blubbdavid wrote:I see, Blazinghand is switching cases so it looks like he doesn't sheep l10f. Well, jdup has made a good post regarding layabout's behaviour On May 06 2012 08:46 johnnywup wrote: I think it is condemning, scum over-reacts to things like that (at least i think, ive never actually played scum). Of course laya didn't know kat would be modkilled, which is why it is condemning. If we didn't know kat's flip, it wouldn't be bad for either of them. It's just a townie pushing his reads on another person he thinks is townie, right? Since kat flipped, no. I don't know, the flip makes me think laya is more scummy. It took scum by surprise that Kat was modkilled. This is a strange thing to assert when as a townie you do not know who scum are and if they thought that Katina was coming back or not. Also when he votes for me he emphasises that it is to get me to answer his question. Show nested quote +On May 06 2012 20:32 blubbdavid wrote:layabout is scum. The question is: why would scum push BM? layabout was pushing BM so hard it was not even funny. Ok: layabaout, why were you so fucking desperate in pushing BM? till then, ##vote layaboutOn May 06 2012 19:51 Blazinghand wrote:On May 06 2012 19:50 blubbdavid wrote: I see, Blazinghand is switching cases so it looks like he doesn't sheep l10f. you wanna mess + Show Spoiler +http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILc0cYkKqFs He begins by saying that i am scum. If he believes this then surely that should be the reason for his vote. By saying that he wants a response he gives himself a way to back out of pushing me. If he truly believes that i am scum then he would have no reason to do this. In which you no make no attempt to read his alignment. The most we can conclude from that post is that you think he's a strange townie. And yet, only a few hours after DYH made his case, you seemingly pulled a case out of nowhere agaisnt him and pushed it.
+ Show Spoiler [p2] +To me the scummiest of the remaining players were Johnnywub and Blubbdavid. Your scummiest reads at that time were jdub and blubb. You call out jdub: + Show Spoiler [seen here] +On May 07 2012 10:00 layabout wrote:@papapanda, The number of players that make sense is far smaller than you appear to think it is. You should treasure the ones that do. Johnnywub:skim through his filter from Area 53 mafia http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=329128&user=99700These are some of his comments (+1 from host) after the game. + Show Spoiler +On May 05 2012 09:18 iGrok wrote: Johnny is probably town MVP. Matt is scum MVP.
Also, well done by scum not to give up when St.Daniel got modkilled. On May 05 2012 09:06 johnnywup wrote: it was too late, i was away and it was 5:01. also fml i feel so shitty now. I had decent reads but I can't convey reads for shit. On May 05 2012 09:28 johnnywup wrote: im sorry i failed you town On May 05 2012 09:35 johnnywup wrote: bleh i feel so guilty for this game. if i conveyed my reads a little better or something i dont know but bleh On May 05 2012 09:41 johnnywup wrote: i thought you were scum mattchew and thats primarily because you allowed an ottox lynch with 2 confirmed scum. but no one listened to me so ugh On May 05 2012 09:49 johnnywup wrote: matt, the timing didn't make sense as town which was my second biggest issue. but no one listened to me. urghh The key things to note are that Johnny: - Posts a lot, this does not necessarily mean that we should expect him to have a massive filter but he does put a lot of time, thought and energy into the game as town.
- He is concerned about communicating his ideas to others and convincing them
- He is working to improve his town game
- He feels like he owes town something
I see no signs of his town game so far. johnnywub is sitting back and watching the thread. When i called him out he instantly de-lurked, said nothing, and left. + Show Spoiler [Today's post's] +On May 07 2012 04:45 johnnywup wrote: I'll be completely honest, I've been addicted to that 999 game so I haven't been posting much.
Also I don't want any gold stars. i looked at a filter, saw something odd, pointed it out. that's what all town should be doing. Speaking of which I'm gonna look over some filters now. I'll report back when I have something substantial On May 07 2012 04:52 johnnywup wrote:lol i love how NT says "it would be correct to be shooting into the lurker crowd" while lurking himself On May 07 2012 04:54 johnnywup wrote: i just noticed that from your post and thought it was interesting. i guess it is rehashing. I'm just agreeing that it's strange and scummy On May 07 2012 05:02 johnnywup wrote: Paqman Marv BH and Mementoss are all saying the same thing at approximately the same time? weird, maybe you just agree with one another and want to quote it as if you found it yourself? O_o However, you completely dropped johnnywub and instead pull a case (out of nowhere) against blubb, after DYH made his. What this looks like is that you couldn't pull support against Jdub. Instead, when it's obvious that townies would support a blubb mislynch, you pull out your own case and push forward.
+ Show Spoiler [p3] +Your entire spoiler: + Show Spoiler +You accuse me of jumping on blubb having not voiced suspicious of him. let's add some context: the vast majority of my posts occur in the evening for me and will nearly all lie in an 8 hour timeslot.
So early day1 i felt was largely wasted and i was not enjoying going through lot's of posts about nothing.
I returned to a divided and leaderless thread with what i viewed as a very small chance of lynching scum. So i tried to make the best of the situation and lynch BM (a lurker). I offered my opinion on what was being discussed.
I began my posting on day 2 (not including the hurried message in the early hours of the morning) by addressing the points raised against me. Whilst reading through them i looked over a number of players including blubbdavid. Almost immediately after i posted my defence SA asked me for my thoughts on blubb so i shared what i was suspicious of. I do not explicitly say "this is scummy" but i do highlight things that are.
After i seeing people cite reasons that i had already responded to and ask questions that were already answered and deliberately miss the point i grew frustrated. Angry, even. I looked at filters and what did i find? A bunch of inactives! Scoundrels that signed up and didn't really intend to play. People who offered little. People who offer almost nothing. People that are hard to analyse. But i made my scumreads. Johnnywub who was uncharacteristically watching the thread like a hawk but staying silent. And Blubbdavid who voted with questionable motivations.
So after responding to the points raised against me i wrote up what i had on Johnnywub and went to sleep. I woke up to find that the thread had moved at a snails pace, Johnnywub had no votes and DoYouHas had a case on Blubb, the main point of which was that blubb was posting as if he knew that i was town. This i something that i had wondered at and questioned in thread having looked at another of blubb's posts. is ALL fluff. What does that entire spoiler consist of? All it accomplishes is summarizing past events. If that is your point-of-view, it hasn't changed anything. After i seeing people cite reasons that i had already responded to and ask questions that were already answered and deliberately miss the point i grew frustrated. I have a strong feeling you copied that excuse from Marvel. On May 09 2012 10:11 marvellosity wrote: Yes, for example the much rehashed katina argument, and frustrated at the state of the game.
+ Show Spoiler [p4] +I think my point here is that i made the decisions to defend myself and to push my reads. Yes, if people have read through your filter and read every single one of your posts they'd see how much effort you put into defending yourself and how little effort you put into active scum hunting. Pushing your reads? Up to this point the only people you have pushed was BM and blubb. You did not push your own read, and you pushed blubb only after DYH made his case and it was obvious the blubb lynch was supported by other people.
#3
I feel that that post paints Johhny in a pretty damning light, and that his response to it painted him in a worse light. Maybe i should have added a vote or written that he is scum a few times for emphasis. I judged that my vote was likely to put a lot of people off of voting for Johnnywub, but that my analysis without a vote might be looked at a little more objectively. I also don't like voting halfway through the day but i prefer to vote towards the end when then has been more information available to aid my decision.
Your entire excuse here is addressed by spoiler p2
#4
+ Show Spoiler [laya's point 4] +kenpachi is pretty unreadable. Either you kill him of early, hope a vig shoots him or lynch him if you are sure that everyone else is town. He has a very anti-town playstyle. But lynching him is basically saying "i don't have any scumreads let's just kill this guy cus he is anti town. It's okay on day1 if your desperate. But past that you shouldn't be lynching him and pushing him over players that look scummy is somewhere between bad and anti-town since it is avoiding scumhunting. I would always call somebody out for a throwaway vote like that. For reference^
But lynching him is basically saying "i don't have any scumreads let's just kill this guy cus he is anti town. That is EXACTLY what happened with BM.
It's okay on day1 if your desperate. And this is your justification for pushing the BM lynch but hard-defending KP...
But past that you shouldn't be lynching him and pushing him over players that look scummy is somewhere between bad and anti-town since it is avoiding scumhunting. I would always call somebody out for a throwaway vote like that. I completely disagree with this. Avoiding scumhunting? BS. I didn't feel that the lynch candidates at that time weren't convincingly scummy and the cases against them weren't strong. I looked for an alternative that I felt was scummier, and guess what! My read was right! I would hardly call my actions "avoiding scumhunting". If anything, that is exactly what you are guilty of.
I would always call somebody out for a throwaway vote like that. Did you? Nope. You pressured Froggynoddy into switching his vote, and that was it.
#5
BM wasn't even playing and i hope you understand why i tend to leave BM around (see point 4). So his comment is of little to no value.
As for Blubb, well i did vote for him didn't i? what hurt me was that when he said that i posted my case against him while he was away, before posting i checked his post times and saw that he had been online at around the time i was posting.
I don't understand why you tend to leave BM around ? point 4 is your excuse for hard-defending KP and makes no mention of BM. I understand your reasons for wanting to get rid of him (they were the same reasons that I felt) but that in no way explains why you typically leave him around. His comment is valuable in that it highlights a difference in your gameplay.
As for blubb, well you weren't the only one who voted him? 8 other people voted him as well. And out of the people voting him, he felt you were scum.
Grush is the first time you're pushing your own read this entire game.
TL;DR you're scum and your points do not convince me otherwise.
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On May 10 2012 12:08 Sinensis wrote: Layabout keeps making compelling defenses... I am suddenly hesitant to keep my vote him. Especially since N_T is in the game; who hasn't made compelling posts to say the least and who hasn't put forth nearly as much effort.
The more I think about it though, nothing N_T does benefits scum... or town... or himself, so I am struggling here too. Do I choose the guy who talks nicer (layabout) or the guy who helps the enemy less (N_T)?
That's mostly the reason why I'm not that comfortable in lynching NT but confident with layabout. If you look into layabout, his actions this entire game benefit the scum agenda.
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I'll see you all at lynch time.
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On May 11 2012 05:56 Mementoss wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2012 05:54 layabout wrote: these players have, in some way or another made me think that they are town. Mementoss marvellosity PaqMan Sinensis ghost_403 Nova_Terra Blazinghand froggynoddy the order means nothing, some of these i am sure are town whilst i have doubts about a few of them. Im really interested what Sinensis ghost_403 has done to make u think they are town. They have not done anything all game.
Ghost is dead..
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@MT if you think I'm scum then push a case against me. You keep making idle comments on how you think I'm scummy but you aren't putting forth anything.
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On May 11 2012 08:41 grush57 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2012 08:02 froggynoddy wrote: Grush all you do is call people scum with no evidence, at all. I'm voting for you unless something odd happens during the night (i.e. somebody miraculously realises he's a vig and shoots you).
Am at work tomorrow but will try and be available during the day (UK time). g'night Whats the evidence against me?
Read your filter.
I've been rereading through the thread starting at the beginning of D3. It feels like there's something I might have missed or skipped over.
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+ Show Spoiler [laya post1] +On May 07 2012 04:55 Eiii wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 04:40 layabout wrote:So anyway, I'm going to vote for layabout. All the other accusations are good, but one thing most people are missing is that if we had lynched BM and the modkills hadn't happened, we'd be completely lost right now. Lynching a lurker who had done almost literally nothing because he 'might hurt town' gives us zero information. We'd all still be running around in the chaos of day one on day two if kat/206 hadn't fucked up. Between that and the kat defense, I'm throwing my vote on him. If lay flips red then marvel is worth looking at just because of being so associated with both layabout and kat day one. Eiii, are you saying that we shouldn't lynch players that lurk because we gain very little information? You are aware of the fact that in the last 24 hours there have been about 100 posts from the 18 players still alive? And that half of the thread are lurking? And that both of the scum players that flipped were lurkers? zzzzz We should *kill* the lurkers by some means. We have ways of killing that isn't a lynch! Ideally we'd shoot all the lurkers and lynch people who took scummy positions. Maximum information (which is a good thing, no matter how you spin it)! That's not always possible, though-- but to lynch a lurker day one when we had a handful of lynch candidates actually puts the town behind. Really, ask yourself. If BM had been the only death day one, where would we be right now? Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 04:40 layabout wrote: You are reiterating a weak point ("kat defence") and saying that you should lynch me for the sake of "information". The link between myself and marvellosity that you are trying to create is weak. You fail to say what to do when i flip town. I cannot think of a worse reason to vote for me. What? No, I don't think you should be lynched for information at all. You should be lynched for pushing BM day one, which accomplished nothing, together with your questionable defense of kat when it wasn't clear that he'd be modkilled, like several other people have pointed out before me. The part about marvel isn't an accusation, just an observation that'll come into play if you flip red. Since you're so interested in what my plan is if you flip green: I'll probably say 'darn' and apologize for voting for the wrong person. And you'll be dead. I'm willing to take that chance, though!
+ Show Spoiler [laya post2] +On May 07 2012 06:36 Eiii wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 05:41 layabout wrote:On May 07 2012 04:55 Eiii wrote:On May 07 2012 04:40 layabout wrote:So anyway, I'm going to vote for layabout. All the other accusations are good, but one thing most people are missing is that if we had lynched BM and the modkills hadn't happened, we'd be completely lost right now. Lynching a lurker who had done almost literally nothing because he 'might hurt town' gives us zero information. We'd all still be running around in the chaos of day one on day two if kat/206 hadn't fucked up. Between that and the kat defense, I'm throwing my vote on him. If lay flips red then marvel is worth looking at just because of being so associated with both layabout and kat day one. Eiii, are you saying that we shouldn't lynch players that lurk because we gain very little information? You are aware of the fact that in the last 24 hours there have been about 100 posts from the 18 players still alive? And that half of the thread are lurking? And that both of the scum players that flipped were lurkers? zzzzz We should *kill* the lurkers by some means. We have ways of killing that isn't a lynch! Ideally we'd shoot all the lurkers and lynch people who took scummy positions [1]. Maximum information (which is a good thing, no matter how you spin it)! That's not always possible, though-- but to lynch a lurker day one when we had a handful of lynch candidates actually puts the town behind. Really, ask yourself. If BM had been the only death day one, where would we be right now? [2]On May 07 2012 04:40 layabout wrote: You are reiterating a weak point ("kat defence") and saying that you should lynch me for the sake of "information". The link between myself and marvellosity that you are trying to create is weak. You fail to say what to do when i flip town. I cannot think of a worse reason to vote for me. What? No, I don't think you should be lynched for information at all [3]. You should be lynched for pushing BM day one, which accomplished nothing [4], together with your questionable defense of kat when it wasn't clear that he'd be modkilled, [5] like several other people have pointed out before me. The part about marvel isn't an accusation, just an observation that'll come into play if you flip red. [6]Since you're so interested in what my plan is if you flip green: I'll probably say 'darn' and apologize for voting for the wrong person. And you'll be dead. I'm willing to take that chance, though! You are full of crap [1]ways like what exactly? relying on the calimed vig in the hopes that we have an engineer and they picked refill ammo and life over doctor? relying on having a blu demoman that has placed bombs on the players we want, and then manages to get themselves killed? relying on red not having a medic that can counteract these night hits? The lynch is the most reliable way to kill players if we decide to. There are so many lurkers that we cannot grant them immunity from the lynch on the grounds that "our blues will deal with them" as you are doing. Would you have us ignore scummy players that are lurking and lynch elsewhere? Hey remember that time I prefaced a statement with 'ideally' and then you freaked the fuck out and took it as an actual defense of lurkers even when I explicitly said right beforehand that we should definitely be killing them? That was great. You're deliberately misinterpreting what I said there. I never came anywhere close to saying we should grant lurkers immunity from being lynched, just that they're always the best option when they can easily be killed off in other ways and we can get more out of our lynch. Plus, lynches aren't the most reliable way to kill people by a long shot. With lynches, we have to deal with mafia influence in arguments and votes. With a vig? He just shoots whoever he wants and that person dies. Seems pretty reliable to me! Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 05:41 layabout wrote: If BM had been the only death 1 we would be in a similar position to most towns that ever were having mislynched a townie day 1.! I refuse to believe you actually think this. Mislynching an active town-- or at least one that tries to defend himself-- has a completely different outcome than lynching a lurker who everyone just kind of agrees is *probably* going to be bad for town so whatever let's kill him. Here's how I see things: Day one is always a chaotic waste of time that usually results in a mislynch or something else equally retarded (e.g. BM lynch). Day two is then mostly driven by analyzing who did what day one and, with the information gained from the day/night deaths, how those actions look. And hey, what do you know, that's almost exactly how this game is going! A good chunk of the talk today has been about Kat/206 and how people connect to them or how they connect to others-- but no one has said a thing about the BM lynch. Because it was useless. Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 04:40 layabout wrote:[3]??? Let's pretend that you didn't post this: If lay flips red then marvel is worth looking at just because of being so associated with both layabout and kat day one which describes the information gained from lynching me, after you emphasized the value of information. Let's pretend that you *actually* read and understood that and aren't just trying to attack me for whatever reason. Lynching you for information isn't even remotely close to lynching you because you're scum, and then looking into the connections that start popping up once you flip red. Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 04:40 layabout wrote: You want to kill me because i pushed a lynch that didn't give us much information. Boo fucking Hoo. That is not the point of a lynch. You lynch to kill scum. When you are desperate you might lynch a lurker (who has a chance of flipping scum) over player that are active or that you have town reads on.
I want to kill you because you've done scummy things. You started a scummy lynch bandwagon day one and you defended another scum, which is suspicious in ways that have been brought up again and again. So I agree-- let's lynch scum! If only you had that same mantra day one, when you decided that you didn't like where the lynch was going so you just threw a lurker (or 'inactive', whatever) onto the fire, who you had no reason to believe was red. What happened to 'let's lynch scum' then? When you're desperate for a lynch you find the scummiest player and you lynch them, you don't just redirect the lynch onto whoever's convenient. Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 04:40 layabout wrote:[5]"questionable defense?" i think ghost summed it up here: Most of the argument against layabout comes from his "hard defense" of Katina. That's not a hard defense at all. Saying a rather good player is moderately intelligent and shouldn't be lynch so early in the game is just good play.
*ghost tragically forgot this later on when other people suggested killing me. 'Player X is scummy and the best candidate we have for a lynch today-- but let's not lynch them! They're smart! Let's at least wait until later.' ...that's a perfectly reasonable, valid defense to you? ok. Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 04:40 layabout wrote: [6]You will weep tears and become the laughing stock of the entire forum!
Eiii believed layabout was scum at the time of those posts. He then follows up with this:
On May 08 2012 05:39 Eiii wrote: Hmmmm. blubbdavid's convinced me, I'm gonna switch my vote over to him.
With his reason being: + Show Spoiler +On May 08 2012 05:59 Eiii wrote: In my experience, when people blow up under pressure like this, they're usually scum :s
Why does that bother me? Because he easily dropped his one & only scumread to join the blubb wagon. He had no hesitation with dropping layabout in favor of blubb.
His last-minute voteswitch was weird and I don't know what to make of it.FoS. People need to put some attention on him and make him de-lurk. Good D4 lynch.
All of my previous fos's were horrible. I will look into NT as a possible lynch and re-evaluate my opinions.
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On May 12 2012 02:02 Eiii wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 01:48 Blazinghand wrote: Since, you know, he's suddenly started acting like scum. Didn't you read his 100% objective list?! He's like, 8th. list doesn't lie bro
Yo Eiii, you didn't respond.
+ Show Spoiler +On May 11 2012 10:35 PaqMan wrote:+ Show Spoiler [laya post1] +On May 07 2012 04:55 Eiii wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 04:40 layabout wrote:So anyway, I'm going to vote for layabout. All the other accusations are good, but one thing most people are missing is that if we had lynched BM and the modkills hadn't happened, we'd be completely lost right now. Lynching a lurker who had done almost literally nothing because he 'might hurt town' gives us zero information. We'd all still be running around in the chaos of day one on day two if kat/206 hadn't fucked up. Between that and the kat defense, I'm throwing my vote on him. If lay flips red then marvel is worth looking at just because of being so associated with both layabout and kat day one. Eiii, are you saying that we shouldn't lynch players that lurk because we gain very little information? You are aware of the fact that in the last 24 hours there have been about 100 posts from the 18 players still alive? And that half of the thread are lurking? And that both of the scum players that flipped were lurkers? zzzzz We should *kill* the lurkers by some means. We have ways of killing that isn't a lynch! Ideally we'd shoot all the lurkers and lynch people who took scummy positions. Maximum information (which is a good thing, no matter how you spin it)! That's not always possible, though-- but to lynch a lurker day one when we had a handful of lynch candidates actually puts the town behind. Really, ask yourself. If BM had been the only death day one, where would we be right now? Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 04:40 layabout wrote: You are reiterating a weak point ("kat defence") and saying that you should lynch me for the sake of "information". The link between myself and marvellosity that you are trying to create is weak. You fail to say what to do when i flip town. I cannot think of a worse reason to vote for me. What? No, I don't think you should be lynched for information at all. You should be lynched for pushing BM day one, which accomplished nothing, together with your questionable defense of kat when it wasn't clear that he'd be modkilled, like several other people have pointed out before me. The part about marvel isn't an accusation, just an observation that'll come into play if you flip red. Since you're so interested in what my plan is if you flip green: I'll probably say 'darn' and apologize for voting for the wrong person. And you'll be dead. I'm willing to take that chance, though! + Show Spoiler [laya post2] +On May 07 2012 06:36 Eiii wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 05:41 layabout wrote:On May 07 2012 04:55 Eiii wrote:On May 07 2012 04:40 layabout wrote:So anyway, I'm going to vote for layabout. All the other accusations are good, but one thing most people are missing is that if we had lynched BM and the modkills hadn't happened, we'd be completely lost right now. Lynching a lurker who had done almost literally nothing because he 'might hurt town' gives us zero information. We'd all still be running around in the chaos of day one on day two if kat/206 hadn't fucked up. Between that and the kat defense, I'm throwing my vote on him. If lay flips red then marvel is worth looking at just because of being so associated with both layabout and kat day one. Eiii, are you saying that we shouldn't lynch players that lurk because we gain very little information? You are aware of the fact that in the last 24 hours there have been about 100 posts from the 18 players still alive? And that half of the thread are lurking? And that both of the scum players that flipped were lurkers? zzzzz We should *kill* the lurkers by some means. We have ways of killing that isn't a lynch! Ideally we'd shoot all the lurkers and lynch people who took scummy positions [1]. Maximum information (which is a good thing, no matter how you spin it)! That's not always possible, though-- but to lynch a lurker day one when we had a handful of lynch candidates actually puts the town behind. Really, ask yourself. If BM had been the only death day one, where would we be right now? [2]On May 07 2012 04:40 layabout wrote: You are reiterating a weak point ("kat defence") and saying that you should lynch me for the sake of "information". The link between myself and marvellosity that you are trying to create is weak. You fail to say what to do when i flip town. I cannot think of a worse reason to vote for me. What? No, I don't think you should be lynched for information at all [3]. You should be lynched for pushing BM day one, which accomplished nothing [4], together with your questionable defense of kat when it wasn't clear that he'd be modkilled, [5] like several other people have pointed out before me. The part about marvel isn't an accusation, just an observation that'll come into play if you flip red. [6]Since you're so interested in what my plan is if you flip green: I'll probably say 'darn' and apologize for voting for the wrong person. And you'll be dead. I'm willing to take that chance, though! You are full of crap [1]ways like what exactly? relying on the calimed vig in the hopes that we have an engineer and they picked refill ammo and life over doctor? relying on having a blu demoman that has placed bombs on the players we want, and then manages to get themselves killed? relying on red not having a medic that can counteract these night hits? The lynch is the most reliable way to kill players if we decide to. There are so many lurkers that we cannot grant them immunity from the lynch on the grounds that "our blues will deal with them" as you are doing. Would you have us ignore scummy players that are lurking and lynch elsewhere? Hey remember that time I prefaced a statement with 'ideally' and then you freaked the fuck out and took it as an actual defense of lurkers even when I explicitly said right beforehand that we should definitely be killing them? That was great. You're deliberately misinterpreting what I said there. I never came anywhere close to saying we should grant lurkers immunity from being lynched, just that they're always the best option when they can easily be killed off in other ways and we can get more out of our lynch. Plus, lynches aren't the most reliable way to kill people by a long shot. With lynches, we have to deal with mafia influence in arguments and votes. With a vig? He just shoots whoever he wants and that person dies. Seems pretty reliable to me! Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 05:41 layabout wrote: If BM had been the only death 1 we would be in a similar position to most towns that ever were having mislynched a townie day 1.! I refuse to believe you actually think this. Mislynching an active town-- or at least one that tries to defend himself-- has a completely different outcome than lynching a lurker who everyone just kind of agrees is *probably* going to be bad for town so whatever let's kill him. Here's how I see things: Day one is always a chaotic waste of time that usually results in a mislynch or something else equally retarded (e.g. BM lynch). Day two is then mostly driven by analyzing who did what day one and, with the information gained from the day/night deaths, how those actions look. And hey, what do you know, that's almost exactly how this game is going! A good chunk of the talk today has been about Kat/206 and how people connect to them or how they connect to others-- but no one has said a thing about the BM lynch. Because it was useless. Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 04:40 layabout wrote:[3]??? Let's pretend that you didn't post this: If lay flips red then marvel is worth looking at just because of being so associated with both layabout and kat day one which describes the information gained from lynching me, after you emphasized the value of information. Let's pretend that you *actually* read and understood that and aren't just trying to attack me for whatever reason. Lynching you for information isn't even remotely close to lynching you because you're scum, and then looking into the connections that start popping up once you flip red. Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 04:40 layabout wrote: You want to kill me because i pushed a lynch that didn't give us much information. Boo fucking Hoo. That is not the point of a lynch. You lynch to kill scum. When you are desperate you might lynch a lurker (who has a chance of flipping scum) over player that are active or that you have town reads on.
I want to kill you because you've done scummy things. You started a scummy lynch bandwagon day one and you defended another scum, which is suspicious in ways that have been brought up again and again. So I agree-- let's lynch scum! If only you had that same mantra day one, when you decided that you didn't like where the lynch was going so you just threw a lurker (or 'inactive', whatever) onto the fire, who you had no reason to believe was red. What happened to 'let's lynch scum' then? When you're desperate for a lynch you find the scummiest player and you lynch them, you don't just redirect the lynch onto whoever's convenient. Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 04:40 layabout wrote:[5]"questionable defense?" i think ghost summed it up here: Most of the argument against layabout comes from his "hard defense" of Katina. That's not a hard defense at all. Saying a rather good player is moderately intelligent and shouldn't be lynch so early in the game is just good play.
*ghost tragically forgot this later on when other people suggested killing me. 'Player X is scummy and the best candidate we have for a lynch today-- but let's not lynch them! They're smart! Let's at least wait until later.' ...that's a perfectly reasonable, valid defense to you? ok. Show nested quote +On May 07 2012 04:40 layabout wrote: [6]You will weep tears and become the laughing stock of the entire forum! Eiii believed layabout was scum at the time of those posts. He then follows up with this: Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 05:39 Eiii wrote: Hmmmm. blubbdavid's convinced me, I'm gonna switch my vote over to him. With his reason being: + Show Spoiler +On May 08 2012 05:59 Eiii wrote: In my experience, when people blow up under pressure like this, they're usually scum :s Why does that bother me? Because he easily dropped his one & only scumread to join the blubb wagon. He had no hesitation with dropping layabout in favor of blubb. His last-minute voteswitch was weird and I don't know what to make of it.FoS. People need to put some attention on him and make him de-lurk. Good D4 lynch. All of my previous fos's were horrible. I will look into NT as a possible lynch and re-evaluate my opinions.
Stop lurking man.
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ebwop: there was a bomb threat today, so I got to come home early!
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On May 12 2012 05:50 Mementoss wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 05:44 l10f wrote:On May 12 2012 01:48 Blazinghand wrote: Since, you know, he's suddenly started acting like scum. And why exactly would I do that if I was scum when I had nearly 0 suspicion on me. And even if I did, I could have at least survived through N_T and Grush lynches if I just shut up. So here you are admitting to acting like scum. The real question is why would you act like scum if you were town?
Sorry, but I don't see where he's "admitting to acting like scum"?
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I would be okay with lynching I10f. People also need to look into Eiii. Don't think I'm going to die tonight but you never know.
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On May 12 2012 07:13 Nova_Terra wrote: Cases and posts against Eiii are at least convincing enough to warrant his vote. Therefore, i would like to see how he flips for info.
Isn't that a no no?....
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