Pick Your Power: Redux
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PaqMan
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PaqMan
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PaqMan
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PaqMan
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For example, the Day vigi wants to make a point so he shoots himself to prove he's town. Would that be allowed? | ||
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On May 14 2012 03:18 risk.nuke wrote: Have it start tonight! I like this | ||
PaqMan
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PaqMan
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On May 15 2012 08:52 Misder wrote: No, they revolve around denying mafia roles for an instawin (okay, maybe a bit exaggerated but not really). I would also say no mass roleclaim cause that gives mafia way too much information. I agree with that, but would we want whoever obtains CPR to claim? I can see the pros and cons of the CPR claiming but that's the only thing that's confused me regarding all these different plans. | ||
PaqMan
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On May 15 2012 09:35 talismania wrote: Paqman, the plans being discussed all revolve around setting the roles to be picked by the top three or so draft winners. In effect, they are pre-claiming the roles that those three people will get. But what if the top three winners, regardless of alignment, simply choose to not follow one of the plans laid out? That's what I'm wondering, if nobody in the top 3-5 chooses CPR/Janitor/RB then should whoever gets that power claim? | ||
PaqMan
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On May 15 2012 11:37 Qatol wrote: Who are you thinking wouldn't follow the plans? Nobody is even arguing against them right now. Are you suggesting that there are 3-5 people who think it is better to disagree and silently act on their own rather than talking about their concerns openly right now? That's pretty anti-town behavior on their part. If anyone has reservations about assigning the roles as we are discussing, please bring them forward now. However, if the plan isn't followed and someone lower in the queue happens to get the Janitor or CPR Doctor (as I mentioned earlier, you should consider all roles fair game just in case, no matter where you are in the queue - use your judgment based on your reads on the people above you and your location), then yeah, they should claim after the Copy Cat has been assigned. It creates accountability, which is never a bad thing. Note: this is only with regards to the CPR Doctor and the Janitor roles. This is not an invitation to claim your role (or lack thereof) for no reason later. It's possible that these plans won't work if the top 3 picks are all mafia/SK, but then we can figure them out via the KP numbers. And it isn't like they won't drop like flies once we figure out what happened. This is the whole point of slowing down the game - to give the town time to organize. That's why I said what if. | ||
PaqMan
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But yeah don't think that your posts are being ignored. | ||
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That said, my numbers were [2,2]. I didn't give much thought when I was choosing my numbers. I was originally going to do [4,2] but risk declared that as his number and I didn't want to end up at the bottom. Also, lol at deconduo. Assuming that he went through with [1,1] I'm surprised no one else picked it. Idk why, I just thought that someone would troll him and pick the same number. Would have been pretty funny. | ||
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On May 16 2012 23:55 risk.nuke wrote: I said it wont affect them at all if you bothered to read before you spurted out your bunch of nonsense. You claim us discussing them will affect their rolepicks? I find that very unlikely since their picks will be determined by their positions in the draft and what they think they can get. They can't simply trade roles between eachother and give a player who's more heavily scrutinised a certain role. And if they start doing that they will have less time to think about their new roles to pick. If they manage to grab Framer then yes, they can. | ||
PaqMan
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On May 17 2012 09:04 Toadesstern wrote: It's not the point that he is resisting the plan. The fact that he was fine with the plan before Role-PMs went out and changed his mind once he got his role PM is the troublesome part. Yes usually people who are that vocal don't turn out to be mafia but he could very well do that on purpose. Remember how I played in LI and WBG said "no way Toad is mafia. He said VE is mafia and told us that he hasn't even done a case on VE when asked about that. Mafias aren't usually talking about things like that so transparent" and I ended up being mafia although wbg was perfectly right with his statement. I already said to blue in another thread it's not about wether it's "normal" for mafia or town. It's about wether or not it's normal for the specific guy and if you think he has the balls to do that as mafia. I think he would have the balls to do it, making it a null for me. And on top of a null I have a guy who ignores everything what's going on while we have multiple people telling everyone that we can't change the plan once Role-PMs are out and that guy comes in here once Role-PMs are out telling everyone that he want's to destroy the plan on purpose. If he does that he is mafia. If he isn't doing it he's a townie who thought it's a good idea to draw attention away from the traitor by looking like a mafia on purpose. We'll find out about it d2 :p It's possible he's just trying to bait scum into picking janitor so that they end up being vanilla. You have a good point but I really can't imagine scum waiting until after the draft order is posted then purposely act against a plan that was agreed upon by everyone. Throw in the fact that he's making a huge deal about it as well. He could have just as easily not told us his intentions. | ||
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On May 17 2012 10:14 Qatol wrote: Let me preface this discussion by stating that we have seen very little arguing between players so far. The number selections being completely random and the discussions about roles have gone almost completely without debate. This is a very pro-town atmosphere and tells me that the mafia are trying to blend into the discussion rather than keep the town from working together. The mafia haven't been working towards encouraging arguments at this point. Therefore, the people we should be looking at first are the ones who are hovering around the edges of the discussion without adding much. As promised, I give you my strong lynch target: PaqMan First, he undergoes a stark change in attitude after the game starts. When the game is still in its setup stages, he's positively giddy about the game starting. However, once the game starts, his posting undergoes a major change. He becomes much more conservative in his posting, to the point where he might be considered apathetic about the game. He spends most of the number selection phase lurking in the background asking a question or two here and there, but not really making much of an attempt to contribute. Where did the pregame excitement go? As I said, I'm not going to contribute if I have nothing to contribute. You yourself were just complaining of spam earlier. When the number selection started, by the time I had logged on and checked the thread, discussion was in full throttle. Plans were already pushed and people's minds already set. Am I honestly getting scolded for asking questions about plans that were discussed and settled on while I was absent? On May 17 2012 10:14 Qatol wrote: Notice this post: 1)The question to ask is "why would he post something like this?" Note that nobody at the time was posting any reservations about the number selection plan at all. So why would he ask this? Because he's trying to make it look like he's involved in the discussion and making useful posts without really advancing the main discussion at all. 2)These posts made part of one of his next posts even more surprising: Then what was that comment earlier? And why have you been asking questions up to this point without giving your opinion on anything? Up to this point, you haven't contributed anything at all! We literally know your opinion on nothing. But you are still highlighting different parts of the plan. 1) "why would he post something like this?" I think the answer's quite obvious here. I was curious about what would be the best thing to do should that scenario occur. Should all three people choose to completely disregard the plans that everyone decided on and someone lower on the list, such as #8 or 9 or 10 or etc, ends up with CPR/Janitor, should they claim it? Am I really getting scolded for thinking ahead? My complete misunderstanding of how PyP works during the start of the game is better explained by the fact that I've never done a pyp. 2) That comment was a question on the plans that were laid out while I was away. And why have you been asking questions up to this point without giving your opinion on anything? + Show Spoiler [my opinions] + On May 15 2012 14:11 PaqMan wrote: If scum obtain the CPR role then it's definitely worth taking out of play, I don't understand how you could argue about that. They already start off with the upper hand and denying them one of the strongest roles in the game is a plus for town. On May 17 2012 09:20 PaqMan wrote: It's possible he's just trying to bait scum into picking janitor so that they end up being vanilla. You have a good point but I really can't imagine scum waiting until after the draft order is posted then purposely act against a plan that was agreed upon by everyone. Throw in the fact that he's making a huge deal about it as well. He could have just as easily not told us his intentions. On May 16 2012 13:21 PaqMan wrote: Yepp, I don't understand that. Some discussion is always better than complete silence. Makes it too easy for scum. That said, my numbers were [2,2]. I didn't give much thought when I was choosing my numbers. I was originally going to do [4,2] but risk declared that as his number and I didn't want to end up at the bottom. Also, lol at deconduo. Assuming that he went through with [1,1] I'm surprised no one else picked it. Idk why, I just thought that someone would troll him and pick the same number. Would have been pretty funny. Please tell me that those aren't opinions. I've contributed nothing at all? Well D1 literally just started only a few hours ago. Of course I'm not going to be slapping down cases and FoS's. If you mean contributing to plans, of course I had nothing to contribute. You had quarter-page long posts covering the role plans, so what the hell is left to say besides "I approve!". Believe it or not, but my questions did contribute. Perhaps they were a little idiotic but they kept the discussion from going stagnate and they raised a good point. On May 17 2012 10:14 Qatol wrote: Now let's compare this to another recent game where PaqMan was a townie: Mafia 'Area' LIII He started very similarly, chomping at the bit for the game to start. However, notice his posts once the game started: There is a HUGE difference between how he acts here. He's comfortable asserting his opinion when questioning an idea. Notice that he has done nothing of the sort in this game other than pointing out that posting numbers doesn't hurt the town if done in the context of a larger post. Now look at one more post from Area LIII which draws an even bigger contrast to the posts he has been making in this game: This is a wonderful pro-town post. He points out potential flaws in a plan and suggests an improvement. He hasn't even come CLOSE to doing something like this in the current game even though all we have done so far is talk about plans! He has the ability to do so, he just hasn't. I'm not sure what to say regarding this part of your case because I see no difference between my posting at all. It's already stated above but I'll say it again. My questions did contribute to discussion. I was looking for potential flaws in the plans and I was questioning possible scenarios and what would be the best course of action if said scenarios occurred. On May 17 2012 10:14 Qatol wrote: So, in summary, PaqMan fits the profile we should be looking for as a mafia, we saw a dramatic shift between his pre-game and current posting styles, his posts show that he is scared to give meaningful contribution to the ongoing discussion, he clearly doesn't care about the well-being of the town, and his history tells us that this is completely out of character for him. All of this adds up to Mafia. -not scared, didn't have anything useful to contribute to plans that everyone already agreed on. -I dont care? I lost the first mafia game I've played in over 6 months. My 2nd game is ongoing. And I'm definitely not down to start my 3rd with getting mislynched D1 because a vet pushed me for asking questions. TL;DR I'm town and you're wrong. If those are your only points for thinking I'm scum you need to do better than that. | ||
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On May 17 2012 12:47 Mattchew wrote: Hey paqman, do you find qatol's case against you scummy like you did mine in area LIII? Or do you think he's just an off track townie? His strongest arguments is that I'm not contributing and that I'm asking questions but now that I've made my response his case doesn't look strong. I think it looks like he's trying to push a lynch on a weak townie. In fact, probably the biggest effort he put into that case was bringing up my two posts from LIII. What bothers me the most about Qatol is that he's easily become the town leader without any opposition or challenge whatsoever. I don't like it at all and I'm going to step up to that. He definitely warrants an FoS but I wouldn't nail him as scum just yet. On Mattchew: Seeing that decondou was on my list of the Big 3 (dec, Sandroba, Qatol), I approve of Matt's shooting. I would say more but I am extremely tired and really need to sleep. I don't think scum would be ballsy enough to pull that kind of move, so there's a higher chance of him being SK. | ||
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Goodnight! | ||
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On May 18 2012 09:38 Misder wrote: I think there is definitely mafia in between risk.nuke, marvellosity, and sentinel. I don't see how there is any benefit to town lying about having the Janitor role at all. I also think we should deal with the Janitor role first. Qatol: If you thought that Janitor is a really strong role for mafia that it warranted a denial, why is lynching Paqman more ideal? Paqman: Who do you think is Janitor? Sentinel: Why are you not voting risk.nuke? The most probable thing that could have happened is that Janitor floated off into the void. This is assuming that Sentinel lied and is not a VT, which is most likely what happened. It's typical to lynch liars but i think this situation is different. He was basically forced to choose Janitor because of a townie (risk) not being compliant with the plan agreed upon by everyone. If I was in sent's spot I would have lied about choosing Janitor and picked the role I wanted. What is starting to bug me now that I'm thinking about it is, why would he continue lying? I would have said I am picking Janitor, to discourage anyone else from choosing it. And as soon as the role picking phrase is over I'd tell everyone that I really didn't pick Janitor. | ||
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On May 18 2012 03:30 risk.nuke wrote: I'm not the janitor. And if the town is a mess it's not my fault. Protip: stop complaining about it and take some action. Take the FoS off Qatol and replace it with Sent and Risk. I haven't read into Marv yet but as of now I'd like to keep the lynch candidates between those two. But this time I feel risk is a lot scummier than sent. Of course I'm going to look more into them and try to write up some cases tonight. I would address Qatol's case but I feel I'd be repeating myself. So I'll just make this little response. Believe it or not but I was busy with RL (Sorry GM) so I didn't have much time. I missed most discussion on plans and the only significant post I've made since Game has started is my defense against Qatol. In My Opinion his strongest argument against me was that I was asking questions on the role plans. Which I've responded too. As for town meta, I don't think that's fair evidence to go by. LIII is completely different to PYP. You have two days to discuss numbers, discuss roles, and discuss plans. I've never played a PYP before and that part of the game doesn't appeal much to me. I'm so used to just being handed a role and told "go!". That's the best way I can explain it to you and if you can't understand and you still think I'm scum because of that, there's nothing else I can do about it. | ||
PaqMan
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On May 18 2012 12:46 Toadesstern wrote: Ok if someone can figure out why 2 of those 3 can not be mafia tell me and we lynch the third guy. If you are not able to do that we will not randomly lynch into one of the three. It's as simple as that. A random lynch into one of three is about as bad as a policy lynch. A policy lynch is 1/4 chance to hit mafia / SK... might as well lynch me instead, or Qatol, or whoever else. Noone wants that to happen, yet people consider lynching into risk / marv / sent. With this (possibly) KP stacked setup it's even worse. We have 14 townies alive and AT LEAST 2 KP every night. more likely something like 2,5 every night (depending on wether or not mafia has the CPR) + something like 1 or 2 KP extra. That's a shitload of dead townies and we can't policy lynch in that situation. Unless someone can figure this mess out none of these three should be a topic and none of these three should be lynched. That idea is also as bad as a policy lynch. You're telling us to waste time coming up with reasons why two other people ARE NOT scum, instead of actual scum hunting. I don't see where you're coming from. I think there is a very good chance one of them three are scum and I'm going to push it. You're basically telling us that unless that person is guaranteed scum, we shouldn't lynch him. Which is impossible to do on D1. On May 18 2012 12:11 Toadesstern wrote: We lynch mafia and a 1/3 chance to lynch mafia is not lynching mafia... 1/3 is a really high chance of hitting scum considering the fact that there are 14 other townies here. | ||
PaqMan
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marv as well did not follow through with the plan and chose a different role instead. I see no reason why Sentinel, as scum, would lie and claim VT. As said numerous times before me, that's an idiot move and he'd basically be digging his own grave. Especially since he was given the option of not having to pick Janitor. He could have easily said no. ##Vote: risk.nuke | ||
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On May 19 2012 02:01 Toadesstern wrote: I tried to do that yesterday and Sandro ended up putting me on his ignore list agreeing with me and voting for senti as well while saying "we probably should no-lynch thought" hinthint: it's the same sandro that says stuff like But yeah, whatever, lynching a modconfirmed townie obviously is optimal play d1 and if that's not possible one should nolynch instead. Very much optimal play in my book as well. woah maybe I missed something but what do you mean by "modconfirmed townie" ? | ||
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On May 19 2012 07:51 marvellosity wrote: you did miss something, read his filter yeah I just saw it. I was still reading the thread when I posted. | ||
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On May 19 2012 03:04 marvellosity wrote: Alright I've talked it over. I am mason and I chose the random townie option. This is not a breadcrumb but this was me taking a stab at what I believed zelblade had chosen given he said he was VT. If the thread thinks it is correct I will tell you who I got, for the mo I'm gonna exercise and have dinner. I believe the mason claim. I don't think marv should reveal who he's masoned with just yet, it'll give scum an easy N1 kill. | ||
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On May 19 2012 08:53 risk.nuke wrote: Btw did anyone try to pick Framer and didn't get it? And lol at PaqMan voting and then confessing you're not done reading the thread. I'mnot a proffesor but this man seems to have an agenda. Voting first, finding reasons after. And double lol at Palmar confirming beeing the SK. Roleblock and vig him tonight. I already stated the reasons why I think your scummier than sent before I voted. I'll make it clearer for you: -Before the draft order was revealed but after everyone knew their alignments, everybody agreed to the roleplans that were pushed forth and no one disagreed with them. As soon as the draft was revealed and you saw you were #2 you wanted to act selfish and anti-town by disobeying the entire plan. -You proceed to worsen the situation even more with this:+ Show Spoiler + On May 18 2012 03:30 risk.nuke wrote: I'm not the janitor. And if the town is a mess it's not my fault. Protip: stop complaining about it and take some action. out of the 3, risk is the scummiest. | ||
PaqMan
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That requires me trusting that you're town, which I don't. | ||
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I think the best course of action would be to roleblock (not jail) risk and, if the CPR is a townie, vigi him. | ||
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zelblade picked JOAT and didn't get it. R, M,or S must be JOAT. If S isn't lying, R or M is lying M picked mason. R picked vigi. It'd clear M if his mason claimed but I don't want to give scum a free townie. The JOAT is between risk and sent. Toad you were wrong about lynching into risk/sent/marv. | ||
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On May 19 2012 12:02 Misder wrote: This also means that Janitor is not in those three hands, and that if there is a Janitor, then it's in scum's hand in a lower draft position. I think it's much more possible that nobody grabbed Janitor and that role is out of play. | ||
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On May 19 2012 12:31 Misder wrote: Yes, but 7 people haven't read the thread yet or just don't get it. For example, PaqMan recently posted in the thread after the claims and yet hasn't concluded what Qatol and I have concluded in the thread yet. And what is that? That you two think sent is scum? I'm not going to sheep my vote, I trust my read over two people who I'm not even sure are town. | ||
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