Currently playing my first newbie game, but I've been following the forum and would love to play in a normal if I could.
TL Mafia LV
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Currently playing my first newbie game, but I've been following the forum and would love to play in a normal if I could. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
He just slotted you where Brood had been | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Not voting for ET atm. I know I'm new to playing here, but I've been actively reading all the games for the last little while and skimmed some that were further back. As someone with no history playing here, it DOES feel like there have been some antagonistic and shitty town environments lately. I've got to say that having a town full of "fucking nice" people sounds delightful, and I'll aim to further that. However, despite agreeing with the sentiment, I'm not going to vote for ET. I'm in agreement with jaj here that this bit of his announcement - + Show Spoiler + On May 27 2012 11:55 EchelonTee wrote: Last thing; I never ignore the newbies. You'll see a bunch of people run for mayor who will be like "I'm bad as scum, good as town, so I'll lynch right and this will all be good kk", but only I will actually consider cases put forth by newbies and actually judge if they have merit. While I might not be the best at hard scumhunting, compared to other players in this game, I pride myself at being able to separate "bad townies" from "newbie scum". Some examples of that are FourFace in TL Mafia LI and gumshoe in Surprisingly Normal VII. Tons of people were calling for vig shots, lynches, etc. and I just said STFU, they are townies. Let's focus. We've had mostly discussion from vets/longer-term-players (I got no idea what the cutoff is there), but this issue is something that the newer players should speak up on. There are a sizable number of us here, and so to the extent that we read something in a particular way, we're going to need to speak up. Anyone else that's relatively new want to comment on ET's campaign? Going to look some more at Toad, but right now I don't want to vote him either. The claim has been discussed enough, and he seems pretty certain that he's going to get shot N1. A platform of "I'm great at scumhunting D1 and will get blown away N1" doesn't sound awful, frankly, but he's just speculating on the N1 kill. Also, the extra vote may not be huge but I'd rather have it active and in town hands. A mayor-for-a-day loses us the extra vote later on, and I don't like that he's not really giving that consideration from a town perspective. Right now I guess I'll throw my vote on Mr. Wiggles. The "lynch Grush" campaign doesn't do much for me, and I'm not putting VE in as mayor if a nice town environment is what I'm going for. I don't love the idea of putting a non-vet in the mayor spot, but is it worth discussing? If unreadability is actually a plus, it gives you that. A newbie may be more open to being absolutely transparent, even to the extent of allowing the majority to decide the D1 vote. If we don't have any more candidacy announcements, it at least brings up some fresh discussion. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On May 28 2012 07:46 Toadesstern wrote: 1) is not manipulative toward newbies but towards everyone else. 2) well It's a mior point if he keeps ignoring contribution and talks about non-isssues instead 3) yeah agree About the last phrase: I'd say we should definitly look into people running for election without having a serious chance or without taking it serious. BH and Sinensis come to my mind on that matter because noone is going to vote something like that although it looks "brave" to troll like that because they'll get heat for that either way. So I agree, if someone is in that grey zone of "I am running for mayor" but isn't really that would be something to look for as well. On the first phrase: What alignment did I have in AC? :p I guess jaj not necessarily drawing any conclusions, but he mentioned it and then Toad dismissed the idea that it was manipulative towards newbies. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
He's been entirely transparent with his reasoning for wanting to be mayor, and to the extent that it's a ridiculous campaign, Blazinghand had the same one. If we take Sinensis's comments at face value, he doesn't even care if he or BH get elected, so long as it's someone from the lynch-Grush party. + Show Spoiler + On May 27 2012 13:25 Sinensis wrote: I would settle for being your VP if it means killing grush. On May 27 2012 13:43 Sinensis wrote: I am picking grush over kenpachi because kenpachi doesn't respond to criticism with "I'm mafia, lynch me." I have never seen play as bad as grush's. Most of the people in LIV spent the game trying to get grush lynched because he literally refused to play, outside of nonsense 1 liners, throughout most of the game. I don't feel like dealing with it again because I don't like losing. If you don't vote for me, I encourage you to check out BlazingHand's platform because killing grush N1 really is the best move for town. I'm not for lynching Grush D1, but I also don't want to lynch someone for wanting to lynch Grush. The more troubling part of the tunneling is that, as has been mentioned, Sinensis can run for mayor without addressing anything else other than his desire to lynch Grush. I care less about what he would do given Grush v. a somewhat scummy candidate for lynch, because I'm willing to put some merit in the argument that someone absolutely unwilling to help town shouldn't be left sitting around. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On May 29 2012 02:55 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Also, some people have commented on either thinking that sinensis or strongandbig aren't the best lynch for today. However, between the two, who do you think is the better lynch? If you don't think either of them are good lynches, who do you think is? This is your chance to get your thoughts out in the thread and let us know what you think. Also, try to give reasons too, not just a name. Since my vote's on you and you asked, I'll respond a little further. I'm still against a sinensis lynch. His tunneling doesn't tell me anything, wanting to policy lynch doesn't tell me anything here, and so he doesn't seem like a good lynch to me, or a better lynch that other options. See previous post for more specific thoughts - + Show Spoiler + On May 28 2012 21:55 austinmcc wrote: As far as Sinensis goes, I don't find him a good lynch candidate at this point. He's been entirely transparent with his reasoning for wanting to be mayor, and to the extent that it's a ridiculous campaign, Blazinghand had the same one. If we take Sinensis's comments at face value, he doesn't even care if he or BH get elected, so long as it's someone from the lynch-Grush party. + Show Spoiler + On May 27 2012 13:25 Sinensis wrote: I would settle for being your VP if it means killing grush. On May 27 2012 13:43 Sinensis wrote: I am picking grush over kenpachi because kenpachi doesn't respond to criticism with "I'm mafia, lynch me." I have never seen play as bad as grush's. Most of the people in LIV spent the game trying to get grush lynched because he literally refused to play, outside of nonsense 1 liners, throughout most of the game. I don't feel like dealing with it again because I don't like losing. If you don't vote for me, I encourage you to check out BlazingHand's platform because killing grush N1 really is the best move for town. I'm not for lynching Grush D1, but I also don't want to lynch someone for wanting to lynch Grush. The more troubling part of the tunneling is that, as has been mentioned, Sinensis can run for mayor without addressing anything else other than his desire to lynch Grush. I care less about what he would do given Grush v. a somewhat scummy candidate for lynch, because I'm willing to put some merit in the argument that someone absolutely unwilling to help town shouldn't be left sitting around. At this point, if he tunnels Grush, we continue to pester him about tunneling Grush. If he backs off of Grush, I'm not entirely confident we wouldn't find that suspicious (See strongandbig running for pardoner, finding out it was a single vote, and pulling his name, but players not accepting his reasoning to pull out). I'd prefer that he were posting and trying, but I can see why doing so might seem futile or might seem like it would just add more fuel to the lynch-Sinensis fire. As for strongandbig, I don't find his running for pardoner scummy, we've had other players speak up and say they didn't see how the vote for mayor/pardoner was working, and so that part of his explanation looks believable. Nobody has come out and said pardoner is a pro-town role, but, assuming that someone had to get elected to it, it would make sense for someone from town to run for that job. Sure, the role may be useful to scum or useful to a lyncher to hold a day hostage in order to get his candidate lynched, but townies should be running for it as well just to keep the alternatives from happening. Apart from that, he's responded to ET's case, bolded you to read it as well, and presented some alternative reads. Given that, neither of them would be my preferred target. However, maybe I'm overwhelmed by the amount of posting from some players, or perhaps it's just the holiday/having lots of lurkers, but I haven't developed any strong scum reads as alternatives. That's entirely unhelpful, but true. I considered de-voting you, but ET is the only other real candidate and I still don't want to vote him mayor. Enough other players are finding your targets scummy that I'd prefer to vote you mayor despite my misgivings on the lynch targets. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Since I didn't present any alternate lynch candidates yesterday, I wanted to go ahead and note that I'm finding Forumite rather scummy at this point. He initially got involved in a discussion as to whether or not we wanted to lynch the vice-mayor, nothing really to be gained from that. But afterwards, I get the feeling that he's trying to present himself as making some strong reads/arguments about others when he's either not or is sheeping what has already been presented. To start with - Toad On May 27 2012 23:39 Forumite wrote: A bold statement when the day hasn´t really begun, more than half the players are yet to weigh in. I´m agreeing with supersoft on this, he says Toades is scum and I´m inclined to agree with him. Toades explains more about his scumplay than townplay when he is making a case on his townieness, and he´s sounding more nervous than angry in his interaction with supersoft. I´ve seen many town-town arguments, and I don´t think this is one. Toad sounds nervous, and interacts with supersoft in a non-town-town manner. But that's all that Forumite ever presents on Toad. He's then got a couple posts where it feels like he's trying to take credit for pushing Toad. + Show Spoiler + + Show Spoiler + On May 28 2012 02:48 Forumite wrote: I am, I was just starting when he went offline. I´ll pick it up when he gets back. Good to know everyone is jumping on Toades, I was afraid it was only me and supersoft. + Show Spoiler + On May 28 2012 07:24 Forumite wrote: I´m glad to hear that I was pressuring Toades so much that it forced him to claim. Oh wait... When you, one of my stronger scumreads, accuse ET, one of my stronger townreads, of being scum then I´m having a hard time taking you seriously Toades. I´m with VE on this, I don´t want more power to Toades. He may have been "just starting" to attack Toad, but I certainly don't see him "jumping on Toad" and I don't see much of a case or a strong read. To the extent that Forumite does continue to pressure Toad when Toad is active again, there's never much of a case made, and it Given that Forumite didn't really say much about Toad, I find it curious that he was "just starting" to attack Toad, and that he and supersoft were "jumping on Toad." I don't see that. I don't see much of a case or a strong read, and while he makes good on continuing to pressure Toad when Toad is active again, there's never really much of a case made. He outlines what conclusions we could draw from certain Toad + masoned player combinations and flips, but that doesn't address why he claims to have been attacking Toad so hard early, before the claim. Next up - Zealos To start with: On May 29 2012 07:19 Forumite wrote: There´s my first scumpick! Zealos is scum and needs to die. No reasoning beyond that, Zealos has now become his first scumpick, despite all the interaction with Toad. Next couple posts concerning Zealos? I think Zealos, or barring him a lurker, is a better lynch. On May 29 2012 07:40 Forumite wrote: Things like this, it´s just bad! We now know that Zealos is scum. He needs to die. And his post or logic is "just bad." Supersoft calls him out on "stealing" the Zealos case: + Show Spoiler + On May 29 2012 07:55 Forumite wrote: I´m not stealing anyones case, I got an early scumread on Zealos and now I´m telling you about it, if you or S&B or anyone else agree, then I´m happy about that. My first duty is to show I´m town, the second is to find scum. I have to be clear about the first, the second one I prefer to keep to myself until I need to present my reads. Sorry if this makes my filter look a bit thin. His explanation doesn't make sense either. He got an early scumread on Zealos, where early = after the scumread on Toad that he's now put aside. He's telling us about it, without ever telling us anything really. And somehow, in doing this, he's attempted to show that he's town while waiting to find scum until he needs to present reads. Yet half or more of his posts are concerning Toad or Zealos, two players he's presented as strong scumreads. We finally get an explanation after all of this - + Show Spoiler + On May 29 2012 08:30 Forumite wrote: Let´s kill Zealos :D Useless claim for no reason, little content, telling people to get along and drops a vote. Defends Toades for no reason at all, it wasn´t even much of a case on Toades, and definetly no wagon. Could be that he´s a town on edge, but I don´t like it. Not everyone was jumping on Toades, not that many really. Preemptive defence, could be to gain town credit, or defend a scumbuddy. It doesn´t feel like he´s as suspicious of Toades play as he should be as town. Best one of all, Zealos is basically saying he´s suspicious without taking responsibility. I´d like to say it´s scum guilt, a combination of knowing he´s accusing a townie and not wanting to take a stand in case it gets him into trouble once S&B flips. It's little one and two liners, discussing quotes that either he or other players have already discussed. The first quote is a "useless claim." Zealos then defended Toad and wasn't as suspicious of Toad as he should have been if he were town. And finally, the comment that was "just bad" before. He states shortly thereafter I tried to make a case on Zealos. There´s not much to go on, but the 3 things he´s done in the game look bad. I don't get anything from his posts so far N1 that push me one way or the other. But during D1, more than any other player right now, I get a scum read from him. Stating that he's made cases when he either hasn't or is sheeping someone else's case. The only times he got challenged for it, he backed off and gave really odd responses. He's got to show he's town, and find scum after that, but he wants to keep the scumhunting to himself until he "needs" to present reads. Then despite posting a case on Zealos, his strongest read it seems, he admits there's not much to go on once challenged. FoS: Forumite | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
I don't disagree with the read on Zealos, and I don't think it's an example of good town play. But that seems to be the general opinion. I just don't get a good feeling from the way it feels like you tried to pump up your reads on Toad and Zealos, especially when a lot of your reasoning came from supersoft or didn't even feel that strong for you (He said, as he finishes presenting a read that apparently isn't all that strong...). Also, when we had so many inactive players, choosing to hold your reads until pressured to reveal anything doesn't quite sit right with me. Do you currently have any reads outside the main targets of discussion that feel scummy to you? | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On May 29 2012 21:35 supersoft wrote: please dont protect wiggles. i'd rather vig him than protect him. he's been completely useless so far as toad pointed out correctly. you also should read my filter more often! all of you. dropped some truth already. + i want to apologize to wiggles first victim: i realized too late, that you were actually going to die. next time i'll yell much more at them. how retarded was that lynch... i think wiggles needs to die for not listening to the town at the end. i dont buy it that he wasnt around at deadline since he was the one who got elected. i think if zealos is scum, wiggles looks really bad and should die. i doubt that he'll be able to erase the doubts then. 70% chance he's scum if zealos is. Toad, earlier you didn't think Wiggles was mafia yet, but were critical of the lynch. + Show Spoiler + On May 29 2012 19:43 Toadesstern wrote: I can offer you a person disagreeing with Wiggles needing protection if that's okay as well. The guy went for a Plan-C lynch.That's the point here, he took the cowards way out. If he was bold he should have lynched Kita if not he should have gone for a nice Plan-B lynch that that was remotely worth information while giviing us an at least existing chance to hit mafia. What wiggles did is lynch into a guy that gave us an existing chance to hit mafia (alhough as pointet out the guy was a true null) while giving us 0 information. I'd rather have seen VE lynched than this guy. We can't make anything out of his lynch because it's 0 information and it basicly had the same chance of hitting mafia a policy lynch has. Not saying he is mafia yet, just saying this lynch was stupid and he looks weird because of it and mafia is not going to shoot someone who is looking weird. Even if they do, I don't care lol | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
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austinmcc
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Leaning town on the moment for supersoft. Sure, his play overnight was odd, but that's fine by me. He didn't shit up a lynch discussion, and I don't really care if he wants to troll for a single night. If it's every night then that will get old, but he won't accomplish anything if he keeps up that play every night anyway. What happens to cwave and phagga? | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
That plus a claimed hit is the extent of the case on Gambit. If we're lynching players for lurking and looking scummy when they don't, everyone seems pretty set that Zealos looks actively scummy. Why should we lynch Gambit based off your claimed hit and poor posting, when Zealos has had poor posting and seems less likely to modkill himself out of the game? | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
If we're looking to lynch inactivity/lurking, why should I vote Gambit over cwave and phagga? I'm happy to vote Gambit if there's a reason that doesn't apply to 2 or 3 others. If we're just going to go after "scummy lurkers," I'd prefer to go after the one that's least likely to get modkilled for inactivity. Zealos is the only one of those 4 that's managed to post every cycle. Don't get me wrong here, lurking mafia won my last game easy. We DID hit the point that the only scum left were lurkers, and town just killed itself off. I'm absolutely not against lynching into our lurkers. But mainly I want to know why Gambit over Zealos. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On May 30 2012 10:17 wherebugsgo wrote: So he should live because he voted? The fuck kind of defense is that? The nonexistent kind? I'm not defending him. I bring up the vote because: On May 30 2012 06:34 wherebugsgo wrote: Is there a particular reason Gambitx32 wasn't warned or replaced for not voting? I ctrl-f'd his name in greymist's filter and didn't find anything there either. I have a scumread on him based on his only two posts in the thread. Both of his posts are massive walls of summarizing nothing. He also asks You brought up the no-vote in your initial 2 posts when you mentioned him. To the extent that the no-vote factored into your read, the read was off, but you may have been more focused on the crappy posting, in which case the no-vote is entirely irrelevant. Again, I'm not trying to defend Gambit here, I'm trying to see your reasoning. Why him over
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austinmcc
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austinmcc
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On May 28 2012 00:50 grush57 wrote: Last game, I admit I did terrible and this game I'm going to take it very serious and try to play awesome townie. Please do | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
For instance, here's where Manason busses G32 (can we call him this? Much more fun). On May 30 2012 10:26 Manason wrote: A lot of people are apparently making hasty votes, the day just began. We have roughly 45 hours to decide who is Scum and while you can change your vote why not focus the pressure on someone who is more likely to read the forum. ##Vote Kitaman | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On May 30 2012 10:41 Kenpachi wrote: wat? no. im too tired to think of what this is called but how is this bussing? It's not. Was responding to On May 30 2012 10:38 Kenpachi wrote: do you realize what bussing implies? Manason, S&B and austin are all mafia. Pretty clear he doesn't, and he's just decided to go back to unhelpful one-liners | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On May 30 2012 10:45 grush57 wrote: Seriously why do people get on my chain so much when this dude is in here? I'm guessing a combination of your play in LIV, your posts this game, and mainly, the lack of vowels in your name. Seriously, get some more vowels. Kenpachi has 3. VE and ET have 5. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
D1 there were suspicions that Toad might be a lyncher, based upon his mayoral campaign and his odd claim. To the extent that being a lyncher made sense, it was because it looked like Toad's claim was aimed at getting some sort of power early and being able to achieve a win condition quickly. If we extend that train of thought, we ought to be thinking of alternate win conditions, or maybe the potential for a variant on a power - perhaps he has to do something or mason with someone in order to activate an ability? While lyncher/assassin have targets in order to achieve a win condition, it's not out of the question that some particular role could need to meet a condition (perhaps mason a specific character?) in order to activate an ability. With that in mind, here are some ramblings! The band-aid. Toad made two mentions of a band-aid in his D1 posts. + Show Spoiler + On May 28 2012 05:28 Toadesstern wrote: mostly the fact that he's posting super manipulative while talking about stuff that is easy to say as mafia as well, which is not an alignment tell at all but it looks like contributing. He's not making a lot of sense when talking, contradicts himself a little every now an then (or than idk, german lol) while quoting nice posts to completly ignore the "contribution" out of the post and just talk about the 2 lines that are utterly useless which again looks like contribution but really isn't. But I'm only on page 15 so far and apparently typing with a band-aid on your finger is really hard to do, so I'm having typos all the time when I try to reach for the right side of my keyboard... On May 28 2012 06:48 Toadesstern wrote: EBWOP A few typos in there and wrong words. Just pronounce the words and you get the meaning :p "by" = "buy" and stuff like that lol It's getting late and the band-aid really make typing really hard which frustrates a lot and therefore I don't doublecheck stuff because it already takes ages to post something like that. Although we've got On May 23 2012 07:23 GreYMisT wrote: You don't need to know about Invader Zim in order to play this game, This is just for the flavor. that doesn't mean that knowledge of Invader Zim can't be used to hint at things/breadcrumb/etc. The band-aid comments struck me as odd. Is there an Invader Zim character with a band-aid? Yup. Sure is. http://zim.wikia.com/wiki/Invader_Spleen. You know, like, the one on the list of possible character names. Did anyone else notice the band-aid comments as odd? Does this make sense? Sure, a band-aid on the head =/= band-aid on the finger, but Toad's comment would look incredibly suspicious if he kept referencing a band-aid on his head. The Second Mason (on the grassy knoll) Toad also keeps mentioning another Mason + Show Spoiler + On May 29 2012 02:18 Toadesstern wrote: I will not listen to anyone suggesting a target becaue if I do mafia justs shoots him => I can not confirm my mason role and I am in trouble. I'm thinking of rnd-ing it. Also there's another mason in this game and he needs to shut the fuck up. On May 30 2012 23:13 Toadesstern wrote: I doubt that's possible lol. I read it as "variant of the roles". As you can see the roles have a very poor description and as I already told you I am the most awesome mason of them all. I'd say if we have a 2nd mason that guy is another kind of mason. Something like that. At one point there IS another mason. Next it's IF there's another mason. Right before the first mention of the second mason, papapanda had posted + Show Spoiler + On May 29 2012 01:40 papapanda wrote: I am not sure why we are not using Toad's claim to put him in VP's spot, as if he is the mafia, we could've prove it by day 2. And like I said, during day2, the pardon is basically useless as it cannot be used to pardon himself. Plus the pardon in any other fraction's hands would not be as devastating, even the lyncher. But by the looks of it, this is not going to happen, so... Of the leading two presidential candidates, I think MrWiggles have a stronger platform as of now; He clearly stated his lynch candidates. EchelonTee, can you state a few of your potential lynch target as well? I know you said that you will base your lynch on what the majority of town says, and that is great; but I feel like that is almost like putting off the blame in case of a mislynch. Imo it will greatly boost you town-credibility if you can pump out a few of your own reads. Anyhow I will decide who to vote based on your response. Regarding Toad(once again): For everyone: What is the best method now to pick the next mason? I am thinking letting Toad play out his cards by himself might be the next best option, as he seem to have some withheld information. The other choice is for the town to decide someone for him to invite, but this increases some randomness and can be potentially affect by mafia. Toad, thought? Toad's shut the fuck up comment seemed out of place, and was posted shortly after papapanda's question. Potentially talking to papapanda? We're all certain Toad has been withholding information, but for most of us we seem to want to know what magical powers he has or why he isn't roleblockable. papapanda notes only that he has "withheld information," which if you want to get really tinfoil-hattish could be some kind of tell? (Note: I don't feel strongly about that, the papapanda bit is purely grasping at straws. But I want to throw it out here to see if anyone else had similar thoughts). Da balls After sending out his PM, Toad was seriously focused on some swollen balls.+ Show Spoiler + BH should wake with a swallen ball. that's me masoning you. I kick the guy in the balls who I want to talk with. You should have a PM So I figured I masoned BH and that's why I posted BH has a swollen ball. Now I got a PM that MZ is my mason So I kicked him in the balls That also struck me as odd, but oh well. I couldn't find anything in particular from the show about ball-kickers or ball-kickees. At one point Dib kicks Zim's "squeedly spooch." Which appears more stomach-y than balls. I'm adding this because I found the constant references to be odd, perhaps they're flavor, but he was really, really driving home the ball-kicking. So for anyone who read that, pull your tinfoil hat down low.
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
The plot thickens. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On May 31 2012 00:31 Blazinghand wrote: Which is to say tha WE could find said crumbs if we look I only did a little poking around so far and the papapanda post jumped out a little. I'll look back at the early game and the bits preceeding the mason mention more. Also, to the extent that "Toad must find second mason" makes sense, there's the chance that he didn't find the other guy and he was trying to draw out the other mason (and may have found him later D1/during N1, leading to the second mention that IF there was a second mason, partially covering up his tracks?). Seriously though, if all of that looks ridiculous, let me know. But we seem to have a lot of questions about Toad's actual role and why he claimed when/how he did, so maybe it's worth some discussion and some further analysis. As to G32, phagga, cwave, I think we're going to be wasting our time posting about them. We can just echo chamber that back and forth but nobody is going to stand up for them and go, "No way, they're not lurking!" Unless we've got legitimate reasons to prefer one candidate between phagga, cwave, and G32 (I separate Zealos because he posted slightly, slightly more), then those three are all the same guy. That's why I was pushing last night for reasons why we were voting G32 over the others, to me there's no reason to prefer one over the other. Unless we've got something specific about one or the other, why waste our time discussing them? Voting, lynching, sure. But is there anything to really discuss? | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On May 31 2012 02:58 VisceraEyes wrote: Because it confused me and I wanted others' opinions. It seemed silly to me that if you're a mason as you claim that scum would leave you alive to be confirmed the next day. Tactically it was an oddity to me so I wanted.to know what [austinmcc] thought. I think it's silly and odd as well. I don't buy that he's just a green mason, but I also don't like the early explanation that was thrown out that he could be a lyncher. Not gonna find the quote, but Greymist said that lyncher/assassin wouldn't be "shooting blind." Forumite's flip shows what Grey might have meant, where the third party is given a role name, as well as a mechanic to help them figure out what player has that role. If we think that applies to the lyncher, if we have one, the idea that a lyncher would push hard for mayor to get a D1 lynch and win looks weaker, as he wouldn't yet know what player had his target role. Do you stop your thought process at silly and oddity? Do you find Toad scummy because of it? Do any of my thoughts concerning third parties or variations on roles make sense given Toad's claim? | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Toad's got a town read on him, wants the name of his role. Again, potentially hunting the name of a role for a third party win condition, or because he thinks Gambit is the other mason? | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On May 31 2012 03:13 Toadesstern wrote: I'm a mason, that rules out third party for christs sake. What are you blabbering about As far as I can tell, here's ALL we have on roles/alignments for sure. On May 10 2012 01:40 GreYMisT wrote: The following list represents all possible roles in the game. Not all of these roles will be in the game, but all roles in the game will either be on this list, or be variations of roles on this list. On May 24 2012 08:20 GreYMisT wrote: A list of all possible roles has been added to the OP. These roles and their variations are the only ones that will be in the game, but not all may appear. Your claim was so odd that it's a major reason you didn't get the mayoral vote. You didn't get shot overnight, maybe because of the threat of protection on you. Your play still feels odd today, you're very clearly holding some information back in a way that feels like you're playing for a shorter term objective than eliminating scum. We have never received a guarantee that masons are all town, the end (yes? Someone correct me quick if I'm horribly wrong). What we HAVE been told is that "variations" are possible, and a scum or third-party mason certainly sounds to me like a variation on mason. My vote's going on you for now, mainly because of how I don't get the sense that your win condition aligns with town's. | ||
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Alright, hat off. Now that we've actually got mod-confirmation that the roles and alignments match up, I'm un-voting Toad (duh). As far as I see it, that's no longer an issue at all and the bits that Toad was secretive about can be confirmed by Gambit. Assuming Gambit comes back and says he's a mason, I'm willing to accept his claim as well. The alternative is to think that he just happened to put "Mason Recruiter" without being one, and that's too farfetched. We could wait for confirmation from someone masoned with him, but the name of the role is good enough for me. I don't think that MZ and Toad both being scum is more likely at this point. Willing to revisit this later if it's absolutely necessary, but that's too far out there. And yes, Toad, I do realize you were forced to out another blue. But you'd already stated that you got a town read from Gambit, and his saying "Mason Recruiter" stood out if anyone read carefully. So, sorry if you think he wouldn't have been outed, but he became enough of a topic of discussion that I thought it would have come out anyway if that were the case. | ||
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Personally I read those contradictions and illogical bits as a result of him being absolutely disinterested in the game. See posts like: + Show Spoiler + On May 28 2012 14:26 Hyaach wrote: How many hours till this day ends? placer-vote until i read everything in around 8 hours On May 28 2012 22:58 Hyaach wrote: Huge headache to read 15 pages of text with lots of emotions and random things inserted here and there. . . . If I could wake up in 8 hours time to reread and revote, I would do it. But for now my vote is . . . But it is still i think 8 hours till day ends? Plenty of time to decide. On May 31 2012 01:18 Hyaach wrote: . . . Gambit. I never read his filter yet. . . . Kita i didnt read. I'll admit though, he's actually made an effort to post each cycle as opposed to the rest of the crew, which DOES look scummy to me when compared to people who have had to be warned. | ||
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On May 31 2012 09:59 Probulous wrote: The only effort he had made has been to find an excuse not to support Wiggles. Why? I'm actually willing to take him at his word on his reasoning. On May 28 2012 22:58 Hyaach wrote: and before you say im contradicting myself which I am. I do not just want to wagon a vote, I have as much town read on Mr Wiggles as I have on Meapak_Ziphh You may say but if you are town you would want to elect a strong candidate into Mayor. But I feel safer voting on town read by myself on someone who doesn't run for Mayor. I believe most who ran campaigns has an agenda. Having not participated in an election previously, I can accept the train of thought he provided: Wiggles seems town, but Wiggles is running for mayor, therefore, better to vote for some other town read that wasn't pushing himself for mayor. I had the same thought to an extent, but figured if a mass vote-swap right before the election was normally a good idea (because some/many of the candidates could be non-town), it would gain traction on its own. | ||
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I get the frustration at trying to discern exactly why x lurker is being suggested over y lurker, I was in that boat last night when G32 votes started popping up. As of yet, I'm still of the mind that nothing much supports lynching one lurker over another. The read I have on Hyaach is faintly town, the read I have on Zealos right now faintly scummy. I have no read on cwave or phagga. Read on G32 is entirely dependent on this mason recruiter nonsense. If none of them posted anything for the rest of D2, I'd end up voting Zealos, only because Zealos and Hyaach are the two that have actually posted and are least likely to see themselves out, and I lean a little scummier on Zealos. If he's active the second half of D2 like he said he'd be, that can easily change, because I'm not leaning very far towards town/scum on those two. Your logic only makes sense if you are around to join in on said mass vote switch. He never changed his vote. Right. I'm not arguing it's actually logical, more that it's...newbie logical? Maybe I'm putting too much stock in the value of experience, but his argument occurred to me as well and I barely rejected it. Not changing his vote, on the other hand, is a little more difficult to explain. He was active at that point, so I don't really want to chalk up not moving the vote to disinterest. | ||
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If you accept that as possible reasoning, then his motivation isn't clear any more, because he could have been acting according to his suspicion of all candidates. That's the only reasoning I've got for him not swapping his vote at the end. | ||
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On May 31 2012 11:17 Probulous wrote: Why would you make an effort to state that Wiggles is the best candidate and then vote for someone else? The reason given was that Wiggles has an agenda and he would prefer voting for someone not running for mayor, which is a newb way is alright, if and only if you consolidate on a candidate. Otherwise you can vote for anyone and not be held accountable. His motivation is clear, avoid voting for Wiggles and then disappear into the night. This is scum play if Wiggles is town, which is my read. | ||
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VE, I know that before you had trouble putting together a Kita case previously, and the one you put forth, at least for me, feels like you rushed it out in response to the case on you. Seems to be based on Kita's meta and his focus on the lyncher during D1 discussion, and just doesn't provide as solid a case as MZ's on you. When you tried to put together a case on Kita before, were there any other points that didn't make it into this case? Anything recent, past the lyncher discussion? | ||
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On May 30 2012 08:05 VisceraEyes wrote: Nah Forumite was likely double-stacked if I had to guess, so we're looking at ONE missing KP. And if I had to guess, I'd say it was at me because I was roleblocked overnight. Current scum-meta is roleblock/kill to hide the roleblock. I bet I took a hit and some loverly medic thinks I'm the stuff. ^^ On May 30 2012 09:41 wherebugsgo wrote: I was roleblocked and took a hit last night. Going to assume that means a jailor protected me from a scum hit. I'm also going to assume it means that lurker I called out is probably scum. As far as VE's vig claim goes, I'm not terribly inclined to believe it given his posts concerning zealos today and the breadcrumb. But it feels like between the possibility of jailers and roleblockers, a single roleblock claim (assuming we think VE is lying about the roleblock) is a little light? Maybe someone roleblocked a lurker thinking blue, and they haven't checked in to notice they were blocked or claimed, but that's my only real misgiving about a VE lynch at this point. | ||
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However, I'd still much rather play the "lazy" route with the lurkers. The argument that waiting a day on pushing a VE lynch gives us more information applies equally to the lurkers. We've got players that didn't vote D1, haven't voted D2, won't have posted for 2 cycles. If they get modkilled, we also get information from that. To a large extent, that negates the value of waiting for information in my mind, because it cuts both ways (unless we're discussing targetting only the layer of lurkers that are posting just enough to avoid modkills, which becomes more reasonable). | ||
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Your case on kita doesn't really convince me. Earlier you mentioned that you'd shoot wiggles tonight,would you be shooting wiggles over kita? Supersoft, you seem so convinced that VE could be directed to some definite scum, what's your target? In the case this idea prevails and we give VE the night, do we direct the shot as a group? Furthermore, the idea is that we watch VE in order to deter a claim that he was roleblocked.
Is that actually the list of options? Maybe I'm missing some possibility, but I don't see any scenario in which the leave-VE-alive plan gets us anything more than the possibility of a town-directed NK, and the plan won't play out quite as simple as just "shoot 'n' watch." | ||
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On June 01 2012 04:41 VisceraEyes wrote: And here's something to factor in. Scum don't know if I'm scum or SK any more than town does...so chances are, I'm going to eat a bullet. Know why? Cause I'm beast-mode SK. Ask fucking anyone. No need. I read the game. I lurked for a while here before playing. You pretty much DO have to shoot the target that's given, but I'm still not liking what we actually learn from that, and to the extent that we need a watcher to claim, what we have to give up to learn anything. | ||
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Some of the pushback against voting VE is that you're tunneling him hard. This doesn't help that. Yes, he suggested those three. They've all come up today as options for the lynch or a vigi shot. Not scummy to name them. | ||
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On June 01 2012 06:02 VisceraEyes wrote: Nonono, I think we can lynch Kita today, flip red, I shoot, I'm not roleblocked for fear of being watched, and I shoot another scum tonight. I come in D3 having EARNED confirmed status, and you get to explain why you wanted to kill me tomorrow while we lynch MZ. That's what I think can happen if we work together. I think you'll have do a fine job of convincing me and town that killing me was a good idea after I'm confirmed, especially if you work with me now. We gotta get there bro, and I think that's the situation we'll be in D3, not people calling for my head. Work with me Toad. No matter who gets hit overnight, you won't ever have earned confirmed status. You can be scum carrying out the NK. Could be an SK. Even if your shot is directed at someone who flips red, it's not some awe-inspiring bus that gets you towncred. You've said it yourself that you really don't have any other option but to shoot our choice of player, so there's no towncred to be gained from hitting scum. On June 01 2012 06:13 marvellosity wrote: There's really too much "oh, might as well". Does everyone voting VE genuinely believe he's scum? Obviously this isn't aimed at kita/MZ/Toad, but the rest of you. Is he the best chance of flipping scum for today or are you being led by vocal people? Marv, when I look at our list of options, nobody jumps out as "scummier than VE" for me. Zealos doesn't look good, G32 doesn't look good but I won't vote for him until we see something about his Mason Recruiter mention. To the extent that other players are options, I don't feel that the cases on them are as strong as that on VE - the kita case is based heavily on meta/lyncher focus D1, and other options like wiggles/strongandbig/anyothernamethat'sbeenthrownout aren't very strong either. I'm not 100% on him, but the alternative right now is just too messy. My sentiment isn't so much "oh, might as well," as it is "dear God, if we don't lynch VE then we roll this mess through the night and into D3, and there's no shiny red alternative lynch option." Lynching for expediency is certainly inferior to lynching for scumminess, but there's a combination here and the fact that any non-VE lynch really just puts this same issue back on the table tomorrow. | ||
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On June 01 2012 06:38 marvellosity wrote: Alright, you tell me - what are the things that make YOU think VE is scum? Very well. The number one thing - Even though he says he shot at Zealos N1, he's been all over the place D2. Town VE might swap votes and change his mind, but he was confident enough to fire at Zealos and then hasn't stuck with him hard all day today. Of course we've got new posts/information, but I don't like the movement. When your claim starts with you shooting at one of the current lynch options, then moves to a case on kita, then making the smart play and offering to fire and die tomorrow, it doesn't look good. Not a meta-reason, not "oh it's a bad breadcrumb." Maybe it's a mislynch. Again, we've spawned something here that we've got to deal with or it's going to mess with N2 and D3. Removing that distraction, when VE seems scummy, is worth the mislynch to me. | ||
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On May 31 2012 02:06 VisceraEyes wrote: Because like you I need vet support to ly.ch a vet. Nothing strange about that. VE, before you die, I need to put on my tinfoil hat again. Several posts of yours had extra .s added in, see the one in the middle of lynch there, and I can find the others if needed. Could be just typos, but I'm pretty sure there's another explanation here that involves band-aids, toad's train, and your keyboard. U gonna own up to this? | ||
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Furthermore, after some thinking, there's an alternative explanation for him knowing the name of the role. Scum gets fakeclaim pms, right? If one of the fakeclaims were a mason, it would have to be the same as the name of Toad's role, so he'd know the name of the role without actually being a mason. For those that expressed doubt at having 2 sets of mason circles in the same game, him reading a fakeclaim and blurting that out provides a way to explain him knowing the name of the role without relying on chance. | ||
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I've got strong town reads on sTofu and marv. + Show Spoiler + sTofu hasn't been particularly active, but he seems to have been relatively open. This post + Show Spoiler + On May 31 2012 14:01 sToFu wrote: You asked for my opinions? Here. VE: MZ makes a compelling case, as stated earlier. Wiggles: If you look through my (very short) filter, you'll notice that I begin with confidence in Wiggles. His posting quality hasn't changed - all his posts are well thought out. What concerns me, however, as indicated in my reads post, was that his posts felt too diplomatic and designed to appeal to the masses. You'll also notice that I tried to subtly call Wiggles out for not posting. His posts are growing even less frequent and more noncommittal. Although nothing he has done is indicating mafia, but his lack of action is growing ever more suspicious. SnB: I'm on the fence. His posts read as those of a logical townie, and (as I have stated previously) I believe Mattchew's case on SnB is frankly devoid of content. Others, however, have pointed out his somewhat scummy behavior throughout this game. I wouldn't lynch him - I'd even rather hit a lurker. Hassy: Who? Notable thoughts not really mentioned: Mattchew - Continued tunnel-vision on SnB. Little to no interaction with any other case. grush - Bad play in previous game. Target of D1 lynch and clears up posting. Pressure on him fades and his posting quality and quantity decreases accordingly. This feels like scum play - post well when called out, and lurk hoping not to be noticed for the rest of the time. Manason - I can't be the only user with alarm bells ringing in my head after his last few posts. I believe that he is scum. I'm starting my case against him. However, I feel like it'll be slightly lacking (plus he might just be having a bad day), and there are plenty of worthy lynch targets in the meantime. I dislike the lurker lynch at this point in time. The cases for each one are roughly equivalent, as demonstrated by how quickly the lurker lynch changed. so I'm going to stick with what I've been pushing for since I read Zealos' filter and his postings (after my reads post): ##Vote: Zealos As a minor note, I feel that a Zealos lynch, considering his early activity and initial willingness to impart information, shouldn't be considered a lurker lynch. On May 29 2012 16:38 sToFu wrote: A number of reasons, actually: you've probably played a lot more than me, and from your posting history, have probably read more carefully and more deeply than my current time constraints allow me to do, especially given how spam-happy the first few hours appeared to be. Furthermore, in RL mafia, I often disregard words in exchange for body language and tone, key factors that don't transmit well over the internet. I would actually appreciate any advice but everything you say to me in this game would be tainted by your initial hostility towards me. After marv's question to VE-voters about why they found him scummy apart from sheeping MZ's case, I wanted to find him scummy. I went to his filter specifically looking to find scumminess. Came up empty. He was on zealos, had some doubts about gambit early on when zealos and other candidates had already been pushed. For the most part, his logic has lined up with mine and so despite looking for anything scummy, he comes off squeaky clean in my mind. Most of the other filters I looked at gave me felt scummier: manason, ange777, papapanda, supersoft. While they're all red here, my strongest read would be ange777 I guess. + Show Spoiler + Manason Manason has mentioned Kita, Zealos, VE, Wiggles...and that's basically it. Just chimes in on those topics, promises early on to be more active and then tells us he's lazy and doesn't want to dig through filters to make a case, and wants to sheep vets instead. He's basically coasted along without doing anything, and while he mentions Kita and Zealos every 2 posts or so, and ALWAYS mentions that he finds them scummy, he doesn't really get into why he finds them scummy. Same refrain over and over on some easy targets without ever giving his own reasoning. Ange777 Ange777 hasn't posted much, but his filter looks awful to me. Start with Zealos, and his initial mention - + Show Spoiler + On May 30 2012 07:01 Ange777 wrote: Ok, so I kind of tried to read all the trillion posts and probably already forgot half of them or mixed up the players. Some thoughts: Zealos I actually would not suspect him to be scum just because he claims VT. In my last (and first) game everyone was pressured to claim directly which - surprisingly - lead to everyone claiming VT. Having only played that game where not claiming was deemed scummy I believe I could have done the same as Zealos. Although he has played several games already and should definitely be more experienced (and maybe know that claming on the start of day 1 is not a common strategy). What DOES make me suspicious of him is this: In this game no one knows for sure whether you are town until you flip green. So why should any of us assume otherwise? On May 31 2012 05:31 Ange777 wrote: To be honest, I think both are at a same scummy level. Posting a big list with names and commenting on them seems like a nice way to fake a townvibe. They don't really address any follow up questions (especially Gambit with his two posts only). Wiggles quoted some people soft defending Gambit which could give us some information if we lynch Gambit. For a lack of a better lynch target I am willing to give a Gambit lynch a try. On May 31 2012 05:35 Ange777 wrote: Why is Zealos a stronger lynch in your opinion? Beyond Zealos, what does ange777 talk about? Not much. But where he chimes in, IF you already view him scummy, he looks worse. He fishes for a little info on what a mason recruiter might be, not inherently scummy on its own. He looks hard at the vote counts, again, not inherently scummy, but if your scumteam is trying to make sure you've got the votes, you're going to be really concerned with the numbers right up until deadline. papapanda papapanda has similar intereactions with zealos, but using hyaach is an alternative. Again, doesn't seem to focus on why zealos is/isn't scummy, but just wondering why you wouldn't go with hyaach isntead. What also stuck out to me was - + Show Spoiler + On June 01 2012 06:12 papapanda wrote: Gambit didn't respond yet, if he ninjas today he is dead tomorrow. supersoft I gave supersoft a pass on his N1 play, and I'm typing this out last so I'm going to rush through which sucks because rereading his filter made him look much scummier. If you throw out the explanation for his N1 conduct and just judge him on everything else, I don't like it. I will grab quotes later, don't figure I'll be a NK, and can fill this in. If you open his filter, you can read along though. He starts out barely pushing zealos. Never makes an actual case, really says anything, but starts to take credit for the idea that zealos is scummy. Provides some reasoning/case only after town has turned clearly anti-zealos. After N1, wants to know who took bullets and wants any vigs who shot to claim (Again, not inherently scummy unless you see him as such). I also really dislike his alternate plan for leaving VE alive overnight. If you reread it, and the discussion that follows, we start to poke some holes in it. It requires the watcher to claim, it doesn't get us anything in a lot of situations, etc. I didn't catch him fully responding to the concerns, which I really disliked and is what made me reread him without taking N1 into account. I also reread grush. Now that I feel the frustration of trying to read him firsthand, I can understand the lynch-Grush campaigns a little more. All I can say is that despite his promise of improvement, I don't see it. Yes, some posts are more than a line. But overall, he seems happy to just poke in, make some jokes, dick around, and then leave. | ||
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It's not a big preference on my part, but I don't want to swing everything to Gambit too early. All/most of our very low volume posters have popped in and voted Gambit, which makes me want to sit on the other side at this point. | ||
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If you're really a mason G32, it's face palming time. Last-minute ninja vote on D2, no posts during N3, and now a single late post on D3. If you put up a gg post, that's 25% increase in the number of times you've posted during the game... | ||
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Especially given your early statement and G32's fakeclaim, I don't read anything from anyobody thinking you could add extras. | ||
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On June 01 2012 23:29 Manason wrote: I know this isn't going to go in my favor and probably harm my chances even more, but I'm lazy and don't want to go digging through peoples filters and making a case. I like to leave that to the vets. Like I've already said though I'll attempt a case D3. On June 02 2012 10:31 Manason wrote: ##Vote Kitaman I will post a case later. That's quite a bit of skyrim. | ||
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Gonna start the game day with the breakfast of champions, a vote for kita. | ||
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On June 03 2012 23:49 austinmcc wrote: Going to put my vote on kita at the moment. Happy to switch it later if needed. Despite nobody coming forward and thinking Gambit is town, nobody (except Kita) has really come forward and said that about kita either. It's not a big preference on my part, but I don't want to swing everything to Gambit too early. All/most of our very low volume posters have popped in and voted Gambit, which makes me want to sit on the other side at this point. I did disagree with VE's case on you. Perhaps it's me being new, but I'm not a big fan of meta-based cases. Going to assume it's more difficult to play different from one's meta than I imagine, but for now I'd prefer a case made off of in-game actions. Part 1 of VE's case was pure meta, Part 2 was based on certain aspects of your interaction with Toad's candidacy and the possibility of him being lyncher. So I wasn't going to vote for you off of VE's case, because (1) I had scummier reads and (2) didn't find VE's case in particular compelling. However, VE isn't the only player to have spoken up, to some extent, I suppose I'm sheeping on this one. Prob posted a case that felt more compelling than VE's, particularly in the way he expanded upon the Toad/lyncher interaction and followed it further into the game. Furthermore, it just doesn't look great in general when townies keep dying with you as one of their main scum reads. While you can say that's just mafia setting you up for a mislynch, you've been a serious lynch candidate for days now and so it's not like they've been aiming shots to make you look scummy, you looked scummy to a lot of the thread before the shots went out. As far as voting for you over my top suspects from earlier - i put out a list of 7 filters that I read. Not everyone in the game, and it wasn't supposed to be all my thoughts, just some filters I'd freshly read. Haven't been contributing as much as I'd like, so I put those out there. You weren't included because you were being actively discussed for the last few days, and I was digging through some other filters. I do still believe manason and papapanda look scummy, but part of manason's looking scummy is the way he brought you and zealos up as scummy with no cases. So yeah, this vote does look more out of left field than I thought it would. I voted for you yesterday but didn't push that. I disagreed with VE's case, but not because I found you particularly towny, only because the case on you didn't convince me more than the case on him. | ||
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On June 05 2012 10:08 Probulous wrote: OK austin, what are your thoughts on Hyaach and papapanda? Hyaach Town read. Not the strongest one I've got, but I can give a couple reasons. On May 31 2012 01:18 Hyaach wrote: Basing lynch due to game balance is not a compelling case at all. Again, this may be one of those bits where newer players see things differently, but I agreed with this statement. + Show Spoiler + Speculation about whether Greymist stacked scum with vets, who would qualify as vet/some middle tier/new, and the like didn't quite do it for me. It wasn't a topic of discussion for long, but my thoughts were in line with Hyaach's. I'd rather stick with in-game actions than speculate about how Greymist organized his games. You guys have a legitimate argument that you want vets scum-side, but deliberately stacking things as such would become predictable and then every game would feature a D1 listing vets and how many vets are probably scum, etc. It's kind of in the same vein as trying to read modkills/replacements for scum, where not modkilling someone might mean they're scum and host doesn't want to wreck the game. If you made full-on policies about these things, those discussions would ruin any value in stacking the scum team or doctoring modkills/replacements. /minirantoff He's then...I won't pull up quotes. Wiggles wiggles wiggles. While I guess mayor is most important on D1 and late game where the double vote can swing things, the constant questioning of wiggles is something I'm alright with. I dislike the way he played the D2 lynch, but don't necessarily read it as scummy. On June 02 2012 00:13 Hyaach wrote: While I don't agree with the statement that lynching a VT is better than a no-lynch, this post is too messy for me to read. He's okay with mislynching a VT, but doesn't want to mislynch a vig (even though the vig can't ever really be confirmed). And even though I disagreed strongly with the leave VE alive for a night plan (potentially requires watcher claiming, never certain of VE's alignment, etc.), I disagreed mainly with the logic.no a no lynch on a VT is better than a no-lynch. a lynch on a claimed VIG is not better than a no-lynch. We had the other option of lynching Zealos and getting VE to shoot someone. so ur reasoning is a lazy town whose not trying. scum mb? Frankly, there's not much else there. It's a very weak town read from those posts. Most of my town read on him is because of below Papapanda Scummy, but again, there's not a boatload to work with. Here's my bit on him last night - + Show Spoiler + On June 02 2012 06:14 austinmcc wrote:papapanda papapanda has similar intereactions with zealos, but using hyaach is an alternative. Again, doesn't seem to focus on why zealos is/isn't scummy, but just wondering why you wouldn't go with hyaach isntead. What also stuck out to me was - + Show Spoiler + On June 01 2012 06:12 papapanda wrote: Gambit didn't respond yet, if he ninjas today he is dead tomorrow. The similar interaction bit was referencing Ange, who I was suspicious of because of the way he was always pushing G32 over zealos. Now that both of them have flipped scum (and Ange town), that one's no longer valid. But papa was playing the same game with zealos and hyaach. See: On May 30 2012 11:29 papapanda wrote: Whattt? I haven't mentioned zealos at all yet. Looking at zealos, cwave, phagga, and gambit, I would go with the gambit lynch. cwave and phagga are heading down the modkill road, and zealos at least is posting, meaning at least we have a chance to spot it if he is mafia. Even so, hyaach is still the most suspicious from the lurkers. As I mentioned before, the first thing he ask is if he had to vote, remember, this game is extended majority vote, meaning every single vote is needed. His post count is similar to zealos but I found his recent post hard to understand and noncontributing to any discussion, My question, is zealos a better lynch candidate than hyaach? PS: Grush has starsenses. On May 31 2012 07:01 papapanda wrote: His original suspicion of Hyaach is here, + Show Spoiler +Weird that people are still picking the likes of Phagga or Zealous over Hyaach as lynch target, if based on posted material... On May 29 2012 06:45 papapanda wrote: Of all the filter I read so far, Hyaach catches my attention. He has played a few games before, surely he know being neutral is a telltale sign of mafia. Hyaach wanted to abstain from today's vote, and as of now, his vote is still on Meepak. In you're last post you mention MrWiggles as a good candidate, are you going to act on that? It is important to vote for someone who is planing to lynch a person who you believe to be scum. But even more important to vote for someone who you think is town. Remember, the first lynch is just a part of the President's power, the two votes counts for the rest of the game, which is much more important than the first day. So for myself, after reading ET's post, I will put my vote on MrWiggles. I think he has shown his ability to analyse others slightly better than ET. I also want to say I also support ET and thanks for your analysis. Beyond that, there's some general lurkiness/low contribution going on. I award 0 town points for voting G32, because practically everyone did. | ||
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On June 05 2012 11:09 Probulous wrote: However I agree with WBG's point about this He avoids everyone else, doesn't bother to find the case, doesn't respond to any other case and doesn't bother pushing his own scum reads. Oh and he responds to Kenpachi who is another lurker instead of the others who are actually participating in the thread. It just rings scum, scum, scum. Anyone else have an idea about the panda man? People seem to have him labelled as mafia so it would be nice to have something fleshy to look at. Does one post a case make? Oops, that quote didn't make it into my thoughts, but I saw it. I guess I didn't share the same thoughts about Hyaach from the start, so I'm less likely to look at him as a proper non-Zealos target. And it feels like too much is resting on that early FoS, which never really got supported by any further reasoning. So either papapanda is legitimately suspicious or Hyaach's lack of a robust filter helps papapanda by not forcing him to give further thoughts. About to head to bed, so not going to get into Kita's claim at the moment. Will save for tomorrow. | ||
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HOWEVER, I think we could use more time to work this out and I'd rather not see an immediate counterclaim. The thread will get messy if we're actively discussing the medic situation and other targets, but to some extent, this is bothering me. On June 05 2012 11:15 kitaman27 wrote: With so few people willing to listen to anything I have to say, it seems unlikely that I will be argue myself out of a lynch today. Even if I am able, it will be a waste of discussion and I'd rather have a full day to go after actual scum targets than defend myself. I am a Medic. Did you really think that this wouldn't become a major topic of discussion and would dominate at least a good chunk of the day cycle? I'm having a tough time believing that you thought there wouldn't be any discussion. Assuming you make good on your promise to come back and post thoughts on a few players, I'm interested in seeing them. Manason and papapanda still looking kind of scummy, and hassybaby and maju both looking kind of mute. | ||
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We've had two blue claims so far today, and scum has yet to shoot at you or MZ, so I don't think there's a large risk in outing another member of the circle. | ||
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On June 06 2012 03:46 Toadesstern wrote: WBG is dead, sorry Can't tell you more I guess On June 06 2012 03:46 Toadesstern wrote: I see 2-3 potential 3rd members. I'd like that third member to confirm that they are masoned.although it should be fairly obvious | ||
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MZ is confirmed because he took a shot N1 and nobody else claimed. If scum can hold shots, he's not 100% confirmed. Without a third member to confirm you're a mason, you can fakeclaim, he can claim to have been shot and been masoned, and you can both skate through the rest of the game as confirmed townies by holding back a single KP on one night. Pretty good bargain. I want to be absolutely sure as we push into late game that you guys are actually both confirmed. Now is the perfect time to do so, because if you're worried about someone in the circle getting shot: (1) Mafia hasn't fired on you despite knowing you were a mason since D1, (2) Mafia hasn't fired on MZ since knowing he was masoned D2, (3) we have a claimed medic and cop which make juicier targets than a third member of the circle. Therefore, the downside in the third member outing himself is extremely low. | ||
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I ask now because we've had the claims and because you stated that you were leaning town on me, so while this is a bit out of left field, I think it's a legitimate request. | ||
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On June 05 2012 08:42 austinmcc wrote: wbg's protection N1 was definitely from jailing, don't remember N2 specifically. So if blues stayed on the same targets each night, with supersoft dead he was vulnerable. Gonna start the game day with the breakfast of champions, a vote for kita. On June 05 2012 10:02 austinmcc wrote: Went to go looking for something but quote, but you're right. I hadn't spoken up on that. However, I started off yesterday the same way. You had my vote until G32 came back and posted.+ Show Spoiler + On June 03 2012 23:49 austinmcc wrote: Going to put my vote on kita at the moment. Happy to switch it later if needed. Despite nobody coming forward and thinking Gambit is town, nobody (except Kita) has really come forward and said that about kita either. It's not a big preference on my part, but I don't want to swing everything to Gambit too early. All/most of our very low volume posters have popped in and voted Gambit, which makes me want to sit on the other side at this point. I did disagree with VE's case on you. Perhaps it's me being new, but I'm not a big fan of meta-based cases. Going to assume it's more difficult to play different from one's meta than I imagine, but for now I'd prefer a case made off of in-game actions. Part 1 of VE's case was pure meta, Part 2 was based on certain aspects of your interaction with Toad's candidacy and the possibility of him being lyncher. So I wasn't going to vote for you off of VE's case, because (1) I had scummier reads and (2) didn't find VE's case in particular compelling. However, VE isn't the only player to have spoken up, to some extent, I suppose I'm sheeping on this one. Prob posted a case that felt more compelling than VE's, particularly in the way he expanded upon the Toad/lyncher interaction and followed it further into the game. Furthermore, it just doesn't look great in general when townies keep dying with you as one of their main scum reads. While you can say that's just mafia setting you up for a mislynch, you've been a serious lynch candidate for days now and so it's not like they've been aiming shots to make you look scummy, you looked scummy to a lot of the thread before the shots went out. As far as voting for you over my top suspects from earlier - i put out a list of 7 filters that I read. Not everyone in the game, and it wasn't supposed to be all my thoughts, just some filters I'd freshly read. Haven't been contributing as much as I'd like, so I put those out there. You weren't included because you were being actively discussed for the last few days, and I was digging through some other filters. I do still believe manason and papapanda look scummy, but part of manason's looking scummy is the way he brought you and zealos up as scummy with no cases. So yeah, this vote does look more out of left field than I thought it would. I voted for you yesterday but didn't push that. I disagreed with VE's case, but not because I found you particularly towny, only because the case on you didn't convince me more than the case on him. With the claim, it's a little more murky. This is a major turning point in the game though, whether Kita is actually the medic or no, and I want to make sure I've got as much information as possible to decide where I come down on that. | ||
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On June 06 2012 04:55 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: That's why I'm asking. He doesn't need to, but I don't see much of a downside.well you're just going to have to take this one on faith then austin because toad doesn't need to reveal it. | ||
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On June 06 2012 05:02 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Not quite as simple, but yeah.So, you can't say that Toad and MZ are scum, unless you believe Kita is as well. In that case, you're claiming you just caught the entire scum team. If we don't get a third name, I'm suspicious of that group of 3. Everything rested on MZ getting shot, which may or may not have happened. Kita's medic claim rests on it. MZ's towniness rests on it. Toad's towniness rests on MZ's towniness. If we do get a third name, then either that's the entire scumteam OR MZ and toad are confirmed. Unclaimed vig shot is possible, but I don't find it very likely. | ||
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On June 06 2012 05:17 Toadesstern wrote: What's the downside? no need right now. Lynch kita and we're fine | ||
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For those of you who thought scum team had to have a few veterans on it, does that read still stand? Based on a lot of what we're discussing, the scum team would look something like: Gambitx32 (new) Manason (new) Zealos (Replacing in for Jitsu after PMs went out, Jitsu vet-y?) MajuGarzett (unsure on veteraniness) Papapanda (unsure on veteraniness) Other (kita, wiggles, whoever) Again, I don't like going too far into thinking that Greymist would have set teams up with a certain number of vets, but if you do/said you did, I'd like to know your thoughts on whether the scum teams that are being proposed line up with that thought. | ||
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On June 06 2012 21:45 Toadesstern wrote: I already told you I can't be roleblocked. Here's what you told us: On May 28 2012 08:15 Toadesstern wrote: And no I can't be RB'ed. On May 28 2012 08:32 Toadesstern wrote: Actually screw that. I was just told my action is roleblockable. Or it's not and I'm only telling you that to draw the roleblock. But it's a night action, right? :p On May 28 2012 23:05 Toadesstern wrote: For CHRISTS SAKE I can not be roleblocked. I CAN CONFIRM THIS SHIT EASY PEASY I want to make friggin' sure we've got confirmed townies if we're going to call them confirmed. You told us two different stories about being roleblockable (and yes, the second quote DOES look like you were having fun and joking around). Either
On June 06 2012 21:48 marvellosity wrote: austin: the mafia roleblocker (Gambit) is dead too as well as toad saying he can't be rb'ed The above is why I'm asking. I don't think Toad is GOING to get roleblocked. But I want to make sure I've got all the information possible, and information that comes from Toad about his own role isn't reliable IF toad isn't confirmed. And again, not a single person is confirmed. I asked if scum could hold KP for one reason. If they can, MZ isn't confirmed town. Earlier, when discussing roleblocks, someone mentioned that an easy scum play is to not roleblock and have one scum member claim roleblock, ezpz. In the same vein, easy scum play is hold one KP, have one scum claim to have been shot at. Here, it's even better than a 1-1 claim roleblock/get town cred scenario. MZ claims to have been shot. kita claims to have protected it. Toad uses MZ as his mason buddy to confirm mason. kita is confirmed because he CAN'T be counterclaimed. Toad is confirmed because someone said he was a mason. MZ is confirmed because he took the shot. All THREE of those players are confirmed by virtue of one single shot. But the shot itself cannot be confirmed. THAT is why I'm looking for other information. Because we're considering two options for Kita. Either he gets counterclaimed and he's scum, or he doesn't and he's town, confirmed. There's a third option. The shot didn't happen, nobody will counterclaim because nobody "saved" MZ. | ||
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On May 28 2012 22:24 Toadesstern wrote: Just a thought on Toades claiming Mason as scum. D2, player X claims to have been masoned, noone have yet to flip so noone is confirmed. If Toades flip Scum, then X is Scum If Toades flip Mason, then we know nothing about X If X flip Scum, then we know nothing about Toades If X flip Town, THEN and only then is Toades confirmed Mason Usually masons who are confirmed for eachother are not confirmed for town until either dies. In this case we can only confirm Toades as town without killing him is if his masonbuddy flips, AND flips as town (which isn´t a guarantee), otherwise we can´t really take anything away from Toades claim. Mason can´t be used as a tool to confirm him, not until later and not unless the right person flips the right way, so the best use of the mason power should be for secret information. Toades didn´t try to use it for that, instead he tries to pass off his claim as a confirmation that he´s town, which it isn´t. It doesn´t makes sense. I don´t know what he is, but I don´t want him as Mayor. Who gets shot N1? Forumite. I was suspicious of him, I know nobody else was. So either he got NKed for coming off very town, or he was a threat because he was the only person who fully reasoned through the different claim options. I didn't because he posted this, but I forgot to follow up on it. In no way are Toad and MZ confirmed. On May 30 2012 04:45 Blazinghand wrote: Don't listen to toad's lies! It's the middle of N1, he isn't mod confirmed town, you can tell because he was totes serious in the quoted post. Check out this informational chart: Note which bar is larger Anyone remember the middle of N1 when supersoft posted suspiciouns of MZ?+ Show Spoiler + On May 30 2012 03:18 supersoft wrote: there MZ makes sinensis looking worse than he actually is... was... Does MZ know he's not scum? Hang him because he doesnt hunt, not because he's scum hmmm I thoight this policylynching of bad players is so bad?! wasn't that the main point of the case against sinensis not really. He distinguished between the two of them. The one is a good and the other is a bad day1 lynch. I agree with that. 100%. agree What, you're getting nervous because i randomly picked you? btw. what do you think about zealos. You didn't mention him there: On May 30 2012 03:37 supersoft wrote: dear vigs, would you please be so kind and shoot wiggles and MZ ?! I wish I had two bullets. What happens when he starts looking at MZ hard?By the way, Toad's reasoning was On May 30 2012 04:05 Toadesstern wrote: I actually have a townread on that guy and I don't like compulsive vigs, especially not if we got no information at all due to a policy lynch d1. Then at the end of N1/start of D2, we had the whole bit where Toad was going to mason MZ, but didn't because supersoft was making him a target, so he masoned BH, except that didn't go through, so he actually masoned MZ. On May 30 2012 08:10 Toadesstern wrote: nah wait it's really weird I'll explain why I said luckily I posted my logs. Here's what happened, the quote is from the last page from BEFORE deadline: I wanted to mason MZ and pm'ed both hosts to do so Supersoft told people to shoot him so I changed my target to BH as I thought both are slightly townish and won't be shot. So I figured I masoned BH and that's why I posted BH has a swollen ball. Now I got a PM that MZ is my mason So I kicked him in the balls On May 30 2012 08:25 Toadesstern wrote: Did that explanation never feel odd? He changed it but that was too late? Not really. He changed but it didn't count? Not allowed to post. I really don't know what I am allowed to post from the pm I got And right after that, Toad posts this On May 30 2012 08:27 Toadesstern wrote: Which feels odd given that he was claiming he could not be roleblocked.Well I did not get roleblocked if that's the case and I either did not get mediced or did not get shot. Screw you guys. I'm still working through this, but I'm leaving my vote on Kita right now. What I'd really like to do is ask everyone's opinion on MZ. Drop the confirmed townie bit, because he's not. Read MZ with a clear head and tell me what you think. supersoft found his D1 play odd, agree/disagree? Lynch on VE, good/bad? Play since then? The shot on him is what confirms Kita's claim, and his being masoned confirmed Toad. IF MZ or Kita is scum, then the other one is, absolutely. Toad is NOT confirmed either, so I'd like him to mason me tonight. If he does, he's confirmed town, no matter what MZ and Kita flip. If he doesn't, I'm going to assume he's scum. | ||
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The rest is all just odd stuff. Like, I went through one day and there were a bunch of little interactions that stuck out, and you've got to admit that the BH/MZ mason stuff was just a little odd. It's all immaterial though, I think I included it just to show some weird interactions and to drive home the point that nobody has been confirmed (except hassy in my mind). The mason claim absolutely decides this, because either you are a town mason or you're not and you're almost certainly scum (i guess 3rd party is an option?). That's why, instead of masoning me, I actually want to suggest something else. I think, depending on who gets lynched, you should mason someone from this list tonight: hyaach, papapanda, majugarzett, manason. If you're town, they can confirm you. If you're scum, you'll either have to out the final scum (if you/MZ/kita are scum) OR you'll have to get rid of one of those players for town and say that you masoned him but he got shot. Congrats, 1/2 of scum's KP wasted and town potentially gets saved some effort. | ||
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It shouldn't really be a topic of discussion, but I love that we're actively debating whether the stupid graph is right or not. | ||
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On June 06 2012 23:09 Toadesstern wrote: Oh and obviously what foru said is completly wrong as well as I already pointed out because he thought I'm a one-shot mason as well. Everything changes if I can repeat the result every night. I can't be mafia with a mafia buddy claiming mason partner because that way I would out 3 mafias the moment I told you the third one. That would be retarded. Ummmmm.
Again, the mason claim decides your fate in a few days. Either you're a mason or you're scum, and nothing matters except you actually being able to be confirmed by another player or two. | ||
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To everyone else who catches up on this nonsense:
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Apart from that, I ... don't think I dislike the plan? I haven't found anything awful about it. So I'd be willing to hop over if kita or MZ aren't going to happen. The potential for -1 KP is nice, but it's not guaranteed. I don't like that it may not confirm kita/MZ and potentially you, but that's the price we'd have to pay. | ||
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I'm willing to move my vote to mana, I found him scummy before and still do. I'd prefer not to move to maju. | ||
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On June 07 2012 07:55 Probulous wrote: Austin here is the situation. Toad claimed mason, masoned MZ who confirmed receiving it and Toad has a green check against him. Besides that he has been open and clear about his reads. MZ claimed a hit which Kita says he stopped. Well if we can get some clarity around Kita, than that helps us with MZ. I understand your scepticism but you need to be realistic. The chances of scum taking that risk AND the night actions from others lining up perfectly is very very remote. On June 07 2012 08:15 Toadesstern wrote: no his case is not plausible as already pointed out by 4 different players. It makes no sense at all and is either mafia driven or paranoia driven. I'm leaning on paranoia like gonzaw in LI when he said every single vet in the game had to be mafia and noone else (LOL) but that's not exactly helping right now. Look, here's the thing. Toad is a separate issue. He's either a mason or not, and his mason status isn't dependant on any of this. I mucked it up by talking about that in the same posts. So Toad isn't involved in this post, he's a separate deal. This is purely, purely, a Kita/MZ thing. MZ claims a shot N1. Kita claims medic, protected MZ N1. We can be absolutely sure that either both of these claims are true or neither claim is true. That's my whole deal right now. Either they're both town or both scum. Here's the simple Occam's Razor version: In favor of TRUE:
In favor of FALSE:
Neither side is entirely cut and dry. If you believe their claims, you inherently believe that Kita was framed N2 and that Kita has been playing scummy all game while being town. If you don't believe their claims, you inherently believe that they would set this up with 2 scum, they would hold a KP N1, and that MZ feels scummy/could be scum. Kita might have been framed. Kita might not have been framed. The kicker for me is that Kita's play has felt scummy. And I'm not the only one to think that. If you're passing off the Toad/MZ/Kita crap as conspiracy theory, fine. Don't look at that. Look at Kita. Look at MZ. Have people seriously looked over MZ's filter? Do things like+ Show Spoiler + On May 31 2012 14:01 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: let's be clear. We're not lynching zealos. We're not lynching gambit. We're not lynching hyaach. We're not gonna lynch any of the other half assed "cases" people have done. We're gonna kill VE. On June 01 2012 03:19 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: No we're lynching VE today. I already explained why VE isn't a vigi, I really don't feel like quoting myself but I guess that's necessary. ... I have yet to see some actual reasons to kill zealos other than people randomly throwing his name around. We are NOT getting sidetracked. People need to stop trying to divert this lynch. VE is dying today. On May 31 2012 15:58 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: [Promised pro-town action that never occurs on the third one]After the lynch I'm going to be holding an open forum which is going to be mandatory for all lurkers. We're going to talk about the proceeding day, their current suspicions, and how we should move forward from there. Failure to post during this meeting will result in an instant FoS. As for who is lurking I'll define that closer to the lynch so I get a better idea of who is lurking vs who is gonna get modkilled. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + Would you agree that Kita and MZ are the same alignment? If so, any chance you want to articulate your thoughts on MZ in more than a sentence or two? | ||
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On June 08 2012 01:36 marvellosity wrote: austin/Hyaach - if we put aside kita/MZ for a moment, do you have other scumreads? Sorry, was busy with the newbie game all afternoon. Putting them aside and looking at others...I guess I get this result? papa, wiggles, ET, kenpachi. That's basically what it would have to come down to, given my other reads. | ||
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ET would NOT be a scumread here. I was putting him in because I found hyaach more townie than you, but I didn't look closely enough and missed maju. Maju would be my other scumread then, and I guess I'll have to look at ET/hyaach a little further. As far as the double medic thing, if 2 medics would be absurd, then yeah, that does go towards them having legit claims. Would it also be odd to have 2 masons then? If so, doesn't that make Toad's worry about Gambit being a mason seem odd? I don't want to push Toad with this, really, i'm done with that. | ||
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Kita blue = MZ town = Toad toad so I will knock it off. | ||
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Not even I can come up with something to make Maju look good. Relatively early vote on Gambit over Kita on D3, but that's not really enough to make him look good. | ||
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Prob claimed DT. Checks in order: Toad, Kita, Hassy, Wiggles | ||
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On May 27 2012 12:05 Kenpachi wrote: I be earthulingu Clearly both town? | ||
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On June 09 2012 08:19 Mr. Wiggles wrote: It's not an argument, I'm just not including myself in a list of suspects when I know I'm town. -_______- Scum could have easily been given the VT role PM. It's likely considering it's not in the OP and there needs to be a way to keep people from bread-crumbing their role PMs to confirm themselves to others with the same role. Also, Kenpachi, my question isn't a piece of shit, so why don't you answer it? What do you not understand about the case on Maju? After 5 cycles, the best you can really say about him is that you're null? That implies you don't think he's town or scum one way or the other, unless you're just abusing the word null. I was joking. I know my push on MZ/Kita/Toad didn't go anywhere, but I'm not actually suggesting Kenpachi's town for claiming VT at the start. | ||
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Also, in case it affects the order you guys are looking at working through the remaining scum members, I had forgotten this post: On May 24 2012 08:20 GreYMisT wrote: I don't see that mattering at this point in the game, but just in case anyone else had forgotten that bit I wanted to mention it.Also note that I will be allowing the Mafia team to choose which members get which roles, If you are selected as Mafia, you will be given your teammates and the QT link in your role PM, and will have 24 hours to indicate to me via TL PM who is getting what. the options will be posted in the quicktopic. | ||
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ET is the pardoner. We were 7/4 before the lynch, and we've lost a medic and jailer so we probably have no more protective roles. If ET were scum, he could have pardoned Maju. We'd lose 2 tonight, go into tomorrow 5/4. Even if we lynch scum, we end the night 3/3 and scum wins. Kita noted the scum pardoner math before he died. | ||
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if there's a traitor we still win with a vet that gets shot OR if wiggles is town. The extra vote keeps us afloat as far as I do the math. | ||
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There IS a chance that both kenpachi and wiggles are scum. Everyone else would have to be town, Hyaach + the rest of us. Consider it if you'd like. | ||
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Happy to hear things are being considered, I've got some thoughts to share once we hit day again or once masoned, but for now I guess it's back to inactivity and re-reading for this cycle. | ||
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I only mentioned Wiggles/Kenpachi because ET asked On June 13 2012 08:09 EchelonTee wrote: That's all.I honestly am not sure which of Wiggles/Kenpachi is scum. Is it really impossible that both are scum? | ||
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He's got a lot of townie looking posts concerning VE/Zealos/Gambit/Wiggles. During the day we lynched VE, he's a fan of voting for scum and having VE shoot the other, and still constantly referencing Wiggles. This question always strikes me as odd - + Show Spoiler + On June 05 2012 15:41 Hyaach wrote: Does roleblocker gets notified if they successfully blocked an night action The real bit that gets me is the last couple days, where he just switches his stance on wiggles. There's a whole series of posts designed to drive him this idea that Wiggles preference for a Maju lynch over a Manason lynch just wipes the slate clean and leaves Wiggles as town - + Show Spoiler + On June 08 2012 02:06 Hyaach wrote: Before I go to bed, i was initially suspicious of Wiggles for his absence and just popping in at the right time jump on the ship that has just sailed off. But his case on Maju over Manason made me thought different. His town to me right now On June 08 2012 19:10 Hyaach wrote: But I don't see Wiggles as gf right now but Maju's flip will tell us. He pushed Maju before Manason and now is pushing Maju again. On June 08 2012 19:53 Hyaach wrote: Yes Im implying if Maju flips scum wiggles is town. It's also somewhat curious that he's only particularly active when there's a plan afoot. Some nonsensical posts early, but then once we start talking about Zealos/G32/VE he pops up and all of a sudden he's active and takes firm stances. I go off the deep end and he pops up to swim around with me. We hit the final stretch and he pops up to discuss his defense and wiggles' towniness. He doesn't appear to be doing much other than getting active when the thread is active, and even then, he doesn't appear to be adding much of substance, which I don't like. | ||
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On May 30 2012 11:29 papapanda wrote: Looking at zealos, cwave, phagga, and gambit, I would go with the gambit lynch. cwave and phagga are heading down the modkill road, and zealos at least is posting, meaning at least we have a chance to spot it if he is mafia. Even so, hyaach is still the most suspicious from the lurkers. On May 31 2012 07:01 papapanda wrote: Weird that people are still picking the likes of Phagga or Zealous over Hyaach as lynch target, if based on posted material... ... Until Gambit responds my vote would be on gambit right now. To the extent that he's pushing Hyaach, he's also pushing G32. I will say that G32 was basically dead at the point of these posts, not like anyone was coming in here and really defending him, so the push on each isn't really equal. But if you're looking for a nice, safe, post where you can mildly call out 2-3 mafia members and then refer back to it later if they all flip before you do, this is it. No big case. No asking people to really look at them. While papa does quote Hyaach in that first quote, I snipped those quotes because they don't really add anything. He just grabs part of Hyaach's filter, drops it in, and calls it a day. It feels like a relatively...safe? set of posts. Mention G32, zealos, hyaach, don't defend any hard or push any that hard, and then fall back to this post if they flip before you do. He didn't do that however, which does trouble me somewhat, although he didn't really mount ANY defense. | ||
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Can get on board with either order, but would prefer Wiggles --> Hyaach. | ||
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The math is bad, because we lose if we mislynch anyone barring a vet shot. The defense is odd because "suspected Toad's circle" isn't townie, it's null. I'd still prefer a Wiggles lynch, unless you've got any particular reason to go after Hyaach first? | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Shots seems to have been aimed at more veteran players this entire game, so marv and ET i'd like your thoughts on the remaining scum. I figure I've been left alive because I'm new and have a poor track record of correct reads, so I don't expect to die. As far as I go, here are my thoughts. Hyaach Here's what I had on hyaach before - + Show Spoiler + On June 13 2012 23:25 austinmcc wrote: Every time I reread Hyaach, I get the same thing. I'll just point out a few posts or trends that get at me. He's got a lot of townie looking posts concerning VE/Zealos/Gambit/Wiggles. During the day we lynched VE, he's a fan of voting for scum and having VE shoot the other, and still constantly referencing Wiggles. This question always strikes me as odd - + Show Spoiler + On June 05 2012 15:41 Hyaach wrote: Does roleblocker gets notified if they successfully blocked an night action The real bit that gets me is the last couple days, where he just switches his stance on wiggles. There's a whole series of posts designed to drive him this idea that Wiggles preference for a Maju lynch over a Manason lynch just wipes the slate clean and leaves Wiggles as town - + Show Spoiler + On June 08 2012 02:06 Hyaach wrote: Before I go to bed, i was initially suspicious of Wiggles for his absence and just popping in at the right time jump on the ship that has just sailed off. But his case on Maju over Manason made me thought different. His town to me right now On June 08 2012 19:10 Hyaach wrote: But I don't see Wiggles as gf right now but Maju's flip will tell us. He pushed Maju before Manason and now is pushing Maju again. On June 08 2012 19:53 Hyaach wrote: Yes Im implying if Maju flips scum wiggles is town. It's also somewhat curious that he's only particularly active when there's a plan afoot. Some nonsensical posts early, but then once we start talking about Zealos/G32/VE he pops up and all of a sudden he's active and takes firm stances. I go off the deep end and he pops up to swim around with me. We hit the final stretch and he pops up to discuss his defense and wiggles' towniness. He doesn't appear to be doing much other than getting active when the thread is active, and even then, he doesn't appear to be adding much of substance, which I don't like. Kenpachi Going to read some of his old games I guess. While he may be known for a small filter, his filter the last few days is entirely unhelpful. Ever since serious suspicion got thrown his way, he's shut down. If you guys know whether this is normal kenpachi behavior, let me know. But, whereas early on he'd at least say "x is scummy" and maybe give a reason, recently there's nothing. Wiggles is scummy, hyaach is scummy, shoot em shoot em. Never a reason. Never anything helpful. Never doing anything other than asking what the plan was, except to ask if I why I was towny. We had a spot-on list as of...two lynches again? A whole real life week of scum seeing that list and knowing that 4/5 of our suspicions were scum. Maju, papa, 2 out of hyaach/ken/wiggles. Apart from wiggles writing a single defense post, there's been nothing more. Nobody challenged that list hard, trying to put me on it, or ET on it, or marv on it. But all scum needed was a single mislynch, so there's got to be some kind of plan here. After we start lynching down the list, Wiggles and Kenpachi turn on each other: Kenpachi pushing Wiggles - + Show Spoiler + Okay so...just check his filter. Here's a sample of just the last page of it, but the last 2 pages are pretty "Wiggles is scum"-centric On June 11 2012 03:44 Kenpachi wrote: before i die, reflect: why is wiggles town and im scum? On June 11 2012 03:44 Kenpachi wrote: i still would like to know why you think my scum buddy wiggles is town On June 11 2012 03:44 Kenpachi wrote: i mean, i know hes mafia please explain On June 11 2012 05:17 Kenpachi wrote: Mr. Wiggles is Mafia. Mr. Wiggles is Mafia. Mr. Wiggles is Mafia. Mr. Wiggles is Mafia. Mr. Wiggles is Mafia. Mr. Wiggles is Mafia. Mr. Wiggles is Mafia. Mr. Wiggles is Mafia. Mr. Wiggles is Mafia. Mr. Wiggles is Mafia. Mr. Wiggles is Mafia. Mr. Wiggles is Mafia. Mr. Wiggles is Mafia. Mr. Wiggles is Mafia. Mr. Wiggles is Mafia. Mr. Wiggles is Mafia. Mr. Wiggles is Mafia. Mr. Wiggles is Mafia. Mr. Wiggles is Mafia. Mr. Wiggles is Mafia. Mr. Wiggles is Mafia. Mr. Wiggles is Mafia. Mr. Wiggles is Mafia. Mr. Wiggles is Mafia. Mr. Wiggles is Mafia. Mr. Wiggles is Mafia. Mr. Wiggles is Mafia. Wiggles pushing Kenpachi - + Show Spoiler + again, just the last page On June 08 2012 14:17 Mr. Wiggles wrote: I went fishing today, so I've been busy for the last 16 hours, and I'm really tired so I'm not going to make a big post right now since I'm going straight to bed. I'm glad we're lynching Maju today, I already posted the reasons I think he's scum in the thread. ##Vote: Maju If anyone wants me to answer anything for tomorrow, just ask. It's Day 5, and the best you can say is that you're null? What do you not get? wat? On June 09 2012 07:07 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Based on the process of elimination, the scum team is Maju, Hyaach, papapanda, and Kenpachi. I'm town, because my role PM says so. MZ and Toad are town. Scum can't be masons, and scum didn't shoot their own member on Night 1 or something equally stupid. I also believe Prob's claim, because I don't think he's ballsy enough to claim DT like that as scum. If he's still alive in two days, I might come back and look again. So for now, he's town. I currently have town reads on all three of Austin, Marv, and ET. So, that leaves 4 players, Maju, hyaach, papapanda, and Kenpachi. There's four scum left. GG. How about, instead of avoiding the question, you answer? You even bolded it for yourself. There's no reason you shouldn't be able to have a read on someone one way or the other unless you haven't bothered to read anything (no way we can tell, so that's a lame excuse) or you're purposefully not wanting to give reads (scum). Then add on that you voted for Maju, and a minute later are in the thread asking who he is and why he's scum. That made me go "wtf?" in my head, and that's why I quoted it. What made you decide to do that? On June 09 2012 08:19 Mr. Wiggles wrote: It's not an argument, I'm just not including myself in a list of suspects when I know I'm town. -_______- Scum could have easily been given the VT role PM. It's likely considering it's not in the OP and there needs to be a way to keep people from bread-crumbing their role PMs to confirm themselves to others with the same role. Also, Kenpachi, my question isn't a piece of shit, so why don't you answer it? What do you not understand about the case on Maju? After 5 cycles, the best you can really say about him is that you're null? That implies you don't think he's town or scum one way or the other, unless you're just abusing the word null. Kenpachi basically tunneled Kita half the game, so perhaps he's just doing the same to Wiggles after that point. But there's precious little in their filters on why Hyaach is scum, and a whole lot of focus splitting Wiggles and Kenpachi up. If I'm Ken/Wiggles and I'm scum, I see the list of scum and I know that we've got days and days of time to just get a single mislynch. All we have to do is make it look like one of us is scum and the other isn't. I know if you guys read Hyaach as particularly scummy, this won't do anything for you. But we pushed Hyaach so hard as a scumread that neither Wiggles nor Kenpachi would have had to push him. Not kenpachi's slight pressure "we lynching hyaach today?" at the start of the last day. All they would have had to do would be wait out our hyaach lynch and win. So...I dunno. I'm still undecided, but leaning more towards Kenpachi. I'd really like to hear from ET/marv tonight before shots, and I guess also from Hyaach and Kenpachi. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Ice, peach, nice all there, but can't really get anything with the letters each leaves behind. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
For all, sorry about shitting up the thread for a day or two. The size of the game and the drop in the activity midgame made me crazy, and I'd just read Sleeper Cell I and liar game, leaving me with scum plans on the brain. All I really wanted to do was to throw MZ/Kita as a possibility, and instead I just spammed stupid crap about toad. Shouldn't have stopped being paranoid + Show Spoiler + On June 01 2012 07:16 austinmcc wrote: Very well. The number one thing - Even though he says he shot at Zealos N1, he's been all over the place D2. Town VE might swap votes and change his mind, but he was confident enough to fire at Zealos and then hasn't stuck with him hard all day today. Of course we've got new posts/information, but I don't like the movement. When your claim starts with you shooting at one of the current lynch options, then moves to a case on kita, then making the smart play and offering to fire and die tomorrow, it doesn't look good. Not a meta-reason, not "oh it's a bad breadcrumb." Maybe it's a mislynch. Again, we've spawned something here that we've got to deal with or it's going to mess with N2 and D3. Removing that distraction, when VE seems scummy, is worth the mislynch to me. On June 01 2012 07:56 austinmcc wrote: VE, before you die, I need to put on my tinfoil hat again. Several posts of yours had extra .s added in, see the one in the middle of lynch there, and I can find the others if needed. Could be just typos, but I'm pretty sure there's another explanation here that involves band-aids, toad's train, and your keyboard. U gonna own up to this? On June 01 2012 08:00 austinmcc wrote: The way that marv was asking for info during the VE mislynch felt so scummy for me that I crumbed this so I could point back to it later if VE flipped town and I wanted to push marv. Then he felt townie for the couple days after so I dropped itMaaaaaaaaaan. G32 you got some 'splainin to do. | ||
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