This actually isn't so bad. I rate it 8 out of 10 hat-eating ms paint arts.
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Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
This actually isn't so bad. I rate it 8 out of 10 hat-eating ms paint arts. | ||
Blazinghand
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/in to play! And I'm /out for cohosting. EDIT: just for artanis: | ||
Blazinghand
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On a more serious note, given that he's either lying scum OR actually a miller, there's no reason for a DT to check him-- whether he's lying or telling the truth the result is the same. | ||
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On June 05 2012 07:45 VisceraEyes wrote: Thank you. So which camp are you in BH? Hilarious or Bad? Because I think this is probably the best way to handle Miller right now. If I'm a DT, I'm not going to check you. If I'm not a DT, I'm just going to ignore your claim for now and see whether or not you play like scum. You have a history of making claims at weird times as both town AND scum, so this doesn't tell me anything about your alignment. Your actions will. | ||
Blazinghand
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On June 05 2012 07:58 furerkip wrote: In fact, if he turns Miller upon a lynch, then wouldn't that help us? Cop's reports can be trusted to a tee. 1) no, if he turns miller on a lynch, we just lynched a townie, which is bad. 2) On June 02 2012 06:23 wherebugsgo wrote: Godfather + Show Spoiler [possible role PM] + Over the years, you've gone by a number of different names. Al Capone, Dick Cheney, Julius Caesar, Elmo, and Martha Stewart all come to mind. Now, however, you want to just retire. In order to do so, though, you must first kill everyone who is not part of your family, because you are highly allergic to non-related people. They make you sick. At your disposal is your uncanny ability to appear as anything you wish. As such you can choose to appear "innocent" to all investigations, if you so wish. By night one you must decide whether you want to mask yourself to investigations. You may also communicate privately with your family member(s) name(s) here in any manner you wish. A QT has been provided at (link here) for your convenience. Framer + Show Spoiler [possible role PM] + blahblahblah standard scum fluff here you win when you outnumber town your teammates are here and you have a QT here, you may target one person per night, causing them to display the opposite alignment to any cops who choose to investigate them for that night only. You may not target yourself. Third Party Roles Serial Killer + Show Spoiler [possible role PM] + You crazy. And probably illiterate. You like feet. Since it doesn't matter what I tell you, just kill everything. You win if you live and no one else does. You can choose to appear innocent to all checks or have the ability to survive one KP once. You can kill one person every night, but you don't have to. | ||
Blazinghand
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On June 05 2012 08:07 furerkip wrote: That didn't make any sense, Serial Killers and Godfathers choose to be innocent; if he's a mafia he'll be framer or goon. Lynching townies is game ending on lynch or lose situations. Lynching bad townies on ML is actually okay in my experience. Makes for better 3-way lynches. As for the framer part, you have a good point. Anyways, it seems no one agrees with me, which makes me feel like I'm tunneling, but my FoS is still VE. I'll leave it at that, and won't press it, until I see another scumslip from him. ' *whoosh* ^-- the sound of my quote going over your head. Let me try this again, maybe you'll understand this time. On June 05 2012 07:58 furerkip wrote: In fact, if he turns Miller upon a lynch, then wouldn't that help us? Cop's reports can be trusted to a tee. Emphasis mine. On June 02 2012 06:23 wherebugsgo wrote: Godfather + Show Spoiler [possible role PM] + Over the years, you've gone by a number of different names. Al Capone, Dick Cheney, Julius Caesar, Elmo, and Martha Stewart all come to mind. Now, however, you want to just retire. In order to do so, though, you must first kill everyone who is not part of your family, because you are highly allergic to non-related people. They make you sick. At your disposal is your uncanny ability to appear as anything you wish. As such you can choose to appear "innocent" to all investigations, if you so wish. By night one you must decide whether you want to mask yourself to investigations. You may also communicate privately with your family member(s) name(s) here in any manner you wish. A QT has been provided at (link here) for your convenience. Framer + Show Spoiler [possible role PM] + blahblahblah standard scum fluff here you win when you outnumber town your teammates are here and you have a QT here, you may target one person per night, causing them to display the opposite alignment to any cops who choose to investigate them for that night only. You may not target yourself. Third Party Roles Serial Killer + Show Spoiler [possible role PM] + You crazy. And probably illiterate. You like feet. Since it doesn't matter what I tell you, just kill everything. You win if you live and no one else does. You can choose to appear innocent to all checks or have the ability to survive one KP once. You can kill one person every night, but you don't have to. There's no need to get all moody about it. The point is, there are mechanics in this game to confuse cops other than miller. | ||
Blazinghand
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My #1 goal is lynching scum. I don't lynch townies, I don't lynch "for information" and I certainly don't aim specifically at "retarded town". If town players happen to die as we lynch down the list of scummiest players, so be it-- but we must try to avoid lynching town as much as possible. If we lynch town, don't be happy, be solemn. Maybe be mad at him for playing like scum. | ||
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On June 05 2012 08:34 furerkip wrote: Okay, I have a question for all of you: Under what evidence should we lynch people, if not for scumslips? You lynch people off of scummy play. Town players tend to promote activity and interactions, and overall pressure people and provide analysis. Scum players literally cannot play as town as town players, because they know who scum is, they must play differently-- scummily. There are some scumslips that only scum can make, but most of what are considered "scumslips" are things that are done equally often by town and scum. A classic example of this was during one of my games (I think it was LI) I referred to the town as "you guys" when I was a VT. A major scumslip. The fact of the matter is, looking for little slips of the tongue or word might be helpful, but it might also lead you to bark up the wrong tree just as often. Behavioral analysis is much better. | ||
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On June 06 2012 07:05 VisceraEyes wrote: BH really? This is all you have to say to the accusations against you? The accusations to me are "BH isn't hunting scum or pressuring anyone" which... well, it's actually true. I haven't been hunting scum or pressuring anyone. Although I personally know I'm town, I could see how you could make that meta argument (though you'll note that since my ban I haven't been swearing in games though so don't expect any of that.). The only way for me to exonerate myself is to find scum, so I'm gonna go do that. Or would you rather I waste everyone's time arguing about whether or not I should have been hunting scum during the first few posts in the game? I'm gonna go hunt scum. You've already voted for me, there's nothing more you can do to hurt me. | ||
Blazinghand
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On June 06 2012 07:08 MrZentor wrote: I don't think I'll ever have an accurate read on you, Blazinghand, but I would be interested in you explaining why you haven't bothered to accuse anybody yet. See, that's funny, because I think your case against G_403 is scummy. I also think that this sentence you JUST SAID, this one right here, is the same one you call G_403 scummy for using: On June 06 2012 05:00 MrZentor wrote: First, he says that he believes VE to be miller, but he then says that he's probably wrong. This coupled with the fact that he thinks Furerkip is scum makes me suspicious. Isn't that interesting? G_403 and you both seem to be very unsure of yourselves reading VE and myself. Still, the Ghost waffling case is all very reasonable, not counting the fact that you've said the same thing: On June 06 2012 05:00 MrZentor wrote: I can't wait for him to try to make some of Furer's posts look scummy. ##Vote: ghost_403 What G_403 says here is null. Although there are scum who do this to delay, there are town players who say this before going to bed or whatever. MrZ quotes it like it's some sort of evidence then says "I can't wait" as though that's analysis, but don't be tricked! It's not! You see, leading up to this moment, Pandain and VE both pressured MrZ, and VE put a vote on G403: + Show Spoiler + On June 06 2012 01:30 Pandain wrote: I think Mr. Zentor is very suspicious, and should be looked at instead. He's offered very weak arguments, suggesting he does not want to force his opinion onto the town. He's offered vague statements that do not really put himself out there("a bit rash", "would probably", "I think, but we should") which do not prove him being mafia but merely cause me to be watchful. On June 06 2012 02:02 VisceraEyes wrote: I agree with your points on Zentor. I'm very interested to hear what else he has to say. I'm also suspicious of ghost. Again, very wishy-washy and very non-committal. Although he seems to be aware of what's happening, he's very absent. He claims to buy my claim, but is content to discuss it ad nauseum. On June 06 2012 03:33 VisceraEyes wrote: Yeah okay, that's fair I think. I haven't read the analysis in question or anything, but if what you're saying is true then I'm down with a ghost lynch. ##Vote: ghost_403 I think I should point out however that he could just be lazy townie in this instance, but based on what we've pointed out here I think he's got a good enough chance of flipping scum to lynch. Who else is down with a ghost lynch? On June 06 2012 03:34 Snarfs wrote: I agree that MrZentor and ghost are playing what I'd deem cautious. I'd really like to hear more from MrZentor though, as he seemed cautious even before the game started (asking wbg if he could be in the game, etc.) And of course MrZ doesn't have the balls to go after me. His natural response is to attack the guy who's got votes and FoSes on him, and try to dig up some vaguely scummy statements (That he himself has also made). "Now, perhaps G_403 is scum" Have you ever played with G_403? Here's a typical post of his from LI: On April 22 2012 08:46 ghost_403 wrote: @paq: Why do you care so much what I think about you? I'm not going to try and lynch you today, and I don't think that your alignment says anything about Mattchew. @marv: I agree with gonzaw. Stop giving us excuses and help us find scum. Pending the results of his usefulness, I think I'm not disinclined to lynching Marv today. He's always like this. His scum meta is to lurk a lot: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=309405&user=104946 G_403 is just being typical G_403 and MrZ had pressure on him and looked for an easy vote, which he thought would be G_403 and not me. He was wrong. ##vote: MrZentor Sup | ||
Blazinghand
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On June 06 2012 07:33 VisceraEyes wrote: That's closer to what I've come to expect BH thank you. Now, did you miss Katina's post that tells a very different tale of Ghost's typical town-play? I'm about to go back and find which is the truth, but I'd like to hear your thoughts on Katina if you please BH. I'd say that Katina's probably town. Katina typically doesn't put any effort into Mafia games as scum LIV But as town, is more aggressive and makes cases like this: (Liar Game Case). Contrast Katina's case in MtG as scum: (link) in which Katina just reiterates other points people have already made, and is slightly wishy-washy about it as well. The aggressive case against me indicates that this is more of Katina's town meta than scum meta, imo. All this of course pending further posting. | ||
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Currently their most recent positions are: On June 06 2012 06:14 MrZentor wrote: Because Navillus accuses me of doing that, he picks somebody whom nobody has accused, regardless of how suspicious Hyaach actually is. (Hyaach seems to be a lot like furerkip, a bit anti town but not scummy.) In summary, he votes for somebody who isn't really suspicious, just so he himself doesn't look suspicious. Guilty much? Which seems like a pretty aggressive case compared to his relatively mild G_403 case. And On June 06 2012 05:51 Navillus wrote: Now looking at the votes on him I get suspicious, VE's vote which is now moved was very fast and didn't go on much, he basically read a couple of posts where artanis points this stuff out and says his meta is different and jumps on. This is suspicious but even more FOS: Mr.Zentor he has a couple posts about VE that don't indicate much then his first post where he says something solid is him jumping on ghost for 1. admitting that he is bad at reading VE which makes no sense and 2. for not following up on furer which I've mentioned. It just looks like Zentor isn't trying to talk about reads or cases, he just wanted to jump in and vote someone people were already suspicious of Which seems like a pretty aggressive case compared to his relatively mild Hyaach case. This looks to me like 2 players who seem interested in making cases at each other without voting each other. Which is scummy. Distancing is a typical scum tactic. Also: On June 06 2012 06:14 MrZentor wrote: I voted for ghost, because he's the most suspicious person. Whether or not other people also think he's scummy is irrelevant. This is so bad I'm not even sure it's scummy. Like, whether or not people think someone is scummy is super relevant. If you think ghost is scum, you should make a really good case and convince everyone he's scummy. You can't lynch him unless other people also think he's scummy. It's like the most relevant thing in the world, and it's kinda the reason you make a case along with your vote. | ||
Blazinghand
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On June 06 2012 09:13 VisceraEyes wrote: It's almost as if MrZ is trying too hard to put on an air of "I don't give a shit if I'm scummy"-townie isn't it? Ugh...as I said, I'm going to go home and flow-chart this shite and see if anything jumps out at me. BH can I ask what brought on the change in playstyle? I mean, not that I mind - but I DO kinda miss the fun-loving Paint-slinging BH of old. I understand the bit about you toning down your language, but that doesn't account for the other nuances that made you such a joy to play with...what gives bro? If you check my most recent games you'll notice this was the case there as well. After getting banned from iGrok's game I decided to rethink my overly aggressive gif/mspaint posting style in which I called people shitty dicks. | ||
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On June 06 2012 10:57 Pandain wrote: Scum tries so hard to make a case that they end up being aggressive on a personal level, almost condenscending. I've heard a lot of complaints about my play throughout the years but "It's weird that blazinghand is so aggressive" is not one I'm familiar with. | ||
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Do you really have no thoughts on MrZ and Navi, which like everyone else seems to have thoughts on? | ||
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On June 06 2012 11:21 Pandain wrote: But that's the beautiful part. I fake claim every game I play. Mafia honestly don't know if I'm telling the truth or not. I may be fucking batshit, or I may be honest. If I'm telling the truth, and they roleblock me, then a.) We find out information about you(why would they protect you) b.) They don't roleblock a medic/detective. If I'm lying, they just roleblocked a regular dude and wasted a power. If that's the case, I'm dead tonight anyways. Read up on and examine my cases, and tell me what you think. | ||
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2) again, this only applies if one of them is already under pressure or being voted 3) "to help analyze around"? I've been confirmed town in enough games to let you know that being confirmed town doesn't make you magically right. It means you're not intentionally misleading the town, and that's it. 4) wat Look, I'm not saying confirmed towns or bad or a mason claim is bad. I'm saying that it's bad to do it right now. Here's what's gonna happen if masons claim now: tonight, mafia will have a CHOICE between either enhanced blue-sniping, or killing a confirmed town. Here's what happens if masons claim at the end of N1: mafia don't have a choice of what to do with their shot, and we still have the confirmed town players D2. So, it's pretty clear that masons claiming right now is really really bad. You're either trying to draw them out so mafia can shoot them (or aim for blues better) or you're just horribly, horribly misinformed. | ||
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yeah I know it's pretty clear isn't it. | ||
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On June 06 2012 11:49 Pandain wrote: 1. Blue roles will have more information in executing their actions. There will be 2 less chances for each blue role to waste a check/shot/roleblock on a townie. Times that by the amount of power roles we have and that is a significant deal. We won't be able to do that if they claim at the very end of N1. We don't have a vigi AND masons AND an additional blue role and you know it. On June 06 2012 11:49 Pandain wrote: 2. We have more information. This is good, not just becuase we won't lynch the masons, but for all the information that springs out of confirmed townies. Your right, BH, confirmed townies aren't 100% right. But the fact is that they aren't scum, and that lets us make sure town runs the scene, not scum. I'd rather have an idiot town help guide town than any scum. Given that the lynch seems to have consolidated onto me (or navi), I'd be very, very surprised if a mason somehow revealing themselves would change things today, unless Navi or me are masons, in which case my idea of "don't claim D1 unless you're gonna get lynched" applies quite well. On June 06 2012 11:49 Pandain wrote: Masons getting shot = more blue roles able to do stuff. Blues(if even that) getting shot = we still have confirmed townie. Right... but one of these two things is gonna happen ANYWAYS. all that claiming NOW does is let scum choose which one. Claiming now is terrible. On June 06 2012 11:49 Pandain wrote: Basically we'll have more information, and now. We already (are pretty sure) that VE is a miller, I'm a vig, if we have tow additional masons that = 4/12 people already accounted for! Then factor in individual analysis and guesswork! That's a HUGE deal in lynch one! 1) Whether or not VE is scummy is a function of his play, not his claim. 2) We don't know you're a vigi at the moment, as you yourself have said. 3) all of this works just as well with masons claiming N1 unless a mason is gonna get lynched, in which case they shoudl claim. MASONS: don't listen to pandain. Don't claim D1 unless you're gonna get lynched. | ||
Blazinghand
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On June 06 2012 01:30 Pandain wrote: I think Mr. Zentor is very suspicious, and should be looked at instead. He's offered very weak arguments, suggesting he does not want to force his opinion onto the town. He's offered vague statements that do not really put himself out there("a bit rash", "would probably", "I think, but we should") which do not prove him being mafia but merely cause me to be watchful. I am also somewhat suspicious of Navillus, but it is more of a general feeling than specific evidence. "MrZ and Navi are suspicious. MrZ because of the way he posts" On June 06 2012 11:17 Pandain wrote: I honestly don't care about Zentor or navillus. They aren't posting enough to gauge an accurate read. I do care about you though. And even if you don't get lynched, I will shoot you. + Show Spoiler + Realize I accidently claimed blue, and my role isn't important enough to justify having medic protection I'm vigilante. "MrZ hasn't posted enough for me to care about" ???? contradiction? | ||
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On June 06 2012 11:55 Blazinghand wrote: !!!!! contradiction! EBWOP | ||
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On June 06 2012 12:10 Pandain wrote: I actually agree that this is getting off topic, and its just me and BH arguing semantics based on different perspectives of the principle I mentioned earlier. To address VE shortly, however, you can refer to my earlier posts to see where I slipped my role, its even been quoted and pointed out. You can try to lynch me, though. To commence, from this little barrage of posts I've analyzed more people. I think VE is more likely town. Navillus has attempted to(rightfully) steer discussion back onto owhere we should be discussing, which was definitely the town thing to do. Mafia would either want to take a stand on the mason issue, or simply not post. Navillus acting as such strikes me as town. I'm also very suspicious of Zellblade, as he's hardly posted at all. In fact, hilariously enough, he's just asked interogative questions. Which I find hilarious and will do one day. How Saying that we have different perspectives about the mason claim is like saying that bullets and massages have different perspectives about touching people. Your accidental claim is crap, your asking masons to claim is crap, and your discussions and non-discussions are crap. ##unvote MrZentor ##vote Pandain | ||
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On June 06 2012 11:58 Pandain wrote: Do you really think VE would claim miller, and risk being counterclaimed, if he wasn't actually the miller? Do you really think theres a significant chance(>90%) of that? Yes. I've played with VE before, so yes. He's not on my scumlist because he's playing aggressively and pro-town as I would expect him to-- however, his claim doesn't factor into that. ALL his claim tells me, and all it should tell ANYONE, is that a DT check on him isn't worthwhile, and you should keep an eye on him to make up for it. On June 06 2012 11:58 Pandain wrote: Same goes with me. If there was a real vigi and he wanted to claim, he'd do so overnight rather than risk the possibility of scum having a roleblocker. Given that several times you've mentioned that your claim might be fake, this would make a counter claim less likely, since a vigi might not even be 100% sure you're scum just from your claim (though your subsequent actions do out you as scum). On June 06 2012 11:58 Pandain wrote: In regards to additional blue roles, masons aren't really a blue role. I doubt there are masons in this setup, but that doesn't mean we won't have an additional blue role. Masons aren't a power role. They were never even meant to be used in the way I'm envisioning them to. If there's 2 masons and a vigi, there's like 0 chance there's additional town PRs. furthermore, the idea that masons claiming wouldn't occur to WBG is utterly preposterous. Of COURSE he'd think of that possibility when he designed the setup. But that's all I have to say on masons or the setup. Clearly, if we do have masons, they're smart and agree with me rather than you. On June 06 2012 12:19 Pandain wrote: I'm not going to get lynched because its retarded reasoning. I'll let other people defend myself. BH you doing an OMGUS on me doesn't help your case either. Honestly, when you first made your case against me I didn't think you were scum. The fact that you reacted to the mildest pressure with this "accidental" roleclaim, you insist on potential masons claiming during the day (to the point of like multiple pages with the discussion on it), and your flip-flopping on MrZ and Navi (and only coming back to talking about them after I pointed out the contradictions in your ignoring them) all eventually led me to believe you aren't just weird, you're scum. Like, if you're town, wouldn't you (instead of self-voting) just make a decent defense of yourself, or try to be otherwise helpful when people vote you? In theory that should be near the top of your list of priorities, rather than just bailing out. | ||
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On June 06 2012 14:11 VisceraEyes wrote: Now, I've reached my consecutive post limit for this game, so I'm going to crash. Everyone should consider lynching Pandain if for no other reason than because he was more interested in shitting up the thread with speculation about his illusory vig-shot than he was about finding the best lynch for the day. Now I kinda don't know what to say to you VE cause we're agreeing a lot this game, but this is actually something that I missed out on. I'd like to add a bit to this. The town mentality is that the game takes place during the day. Even if you're a vigi or a DT or a JK, your night actions are either limited to once per game (as a vigi) or are used to support your day actions (as a DT or JK). Voting and talking about lynches your main tools to get mafia. Without thinking about it, you're naturally thinking about the day more, and thinking about what happens during the day more, than a scum player would. As mafia, most of your agency revolves around the night-- that's when you're safe from the lynch, town's tool to catch you, and you can direct your KP. Mafia will naturally think more about the night, and in terms of night actions. The fact that Pandain wanted to draw attention AWAY from the lynch (especially at a time when most people were already voting for me) is weird and NOT something a town player would do. Granted, this is somewhat mitigated from the fact that he claimed vigi and has a kp, but it's ties in with Pandain's goal of shitting up the thread. Look at how he evades the topic of other lynches until it becomes a problem for him, and how he got into discussions about the way he worded his claim, what he plans on doing with his so-called vigi shot, and insisting on some terrible mason claim, shitting up the thread and preventing real discussion from happening. This is a good supporting evidence, VE. | ||
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On June 06 2012 13:05 Navillus wrote: BH I still don't see the actual advantage mafia gains, as MrZ pointed out the best they're getting out of this pretty risky play is someone who is tentatively confirmed as the "vig's" shot would be the only shot that night so obviously town would realize that it's possible it's just mafia, beyond that Panda hasn't even really been going for the "I'm confirmed listen to me" angle so I don't think that this makes sense as a mafia fakeclaim where they try to get one of their guys as some big confirmed townie. Look at it this way: If scum claims DT or JK or something, they have to constantly produce results. If scum claims vigi, all they have to do is call the N1 shot, and then they don't have to do anything for the rest of the game as far as confirming their claim goes. They won't be confirmed town, but it won't be an obvious falseclaim or a constant pressure like having to come back with DT or JK checks every night would be... Vigi is by far the easiest. On June 06 2012 12:19 Navillus wrote: Also whether he's town or scum one thing he brought up needs to be noticed. way too many people are getting away with lurking frankly with this many people getting to avoid posting anything of substance I wouldn't be surprised if 2 or 3 scum aren't even posting enough to get looked at. Zelblade, Hyaach, Furer, and maybe to a lesser degree Kat all need to post on something recent and give their opinions. Don't forget Artanis, who has been lurking as long as furerkip. I have to say, though, out of that group, Artanis was by far the most helpful out of them. So what's new, Artanis? Tell me your thoughts on Pandain. | ||
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On June 07 2012 06:21 VisceraEyes wrote: I mean, I understand what you're saying, I do...but I'm trying to give BH the benefit of the doubt where all of that is concerned. I appreciate that you're trying to be helpful, but don't give me the benefit of the doubt. I mean, I personally like it when people agree with me, but giving people the benefit of the doubt is dangerous. Don't give anyone the benefit of the doubt-- don't ever impair your scumhunting. If you feel there's something wrong with someone's play, either make note of it and address your read accordingly or air it with the town- we'll be better off for it. | ||
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Furerkip, I want to hear what you think of me. I mean, I want to hear almost anything out of you at this point, but that's a good enough starting point, isn't it? We haven't seen you in 2 days, and you ended the day with your vote on... VE. Overall you were profoundly, deeply unhelpful. Where you at? | ||
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I'm the vigilante. I pushed for pandain's lynch after he claimed because I knew he wasn't. I didn't claim because of the potential RB. I shot furerkip. | ||
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On June 08 2012 06:23 VisceraEyes wrote: I don't suppose you breadcrumbed that shit did you? Just to set my mind at ease... Well, I didn't breadcrumb the shot. I figured I'd just say it during this phase when you can talk and people can't change their night actions. | ||
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On June 05 2012 08:11 Blazinghand wrote: There's no need to get all moody about it. The point is, there are mechanics in this game to confuse cops other than miller. get all [b][/b]moody about it Moody = Mad Eye Moody from the Harry Potter series, whose catch phrase was "constant vigilance" = vigilante | ||
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On June 06 2012 22:45 Hyaach wrote: Late to the party but did no one thought that Pand was fishing for information when he asked Masons to claim? He could very likely be a SK as well but either way his scum. The rest of it is bad excuses and unhelpful justification for his actions: + Show Spoiler + On June 07 2012 06:47 Hyaach wrote: Shouldn't you see how the lynch works out before you decide to pressure someone base? you FoS on someone other and random vote on me makes me think you wanna fish for information rather than pressure me given the number of lurkers at the time when you vote me ? On June 07 2012 06:57 Hyaach wrote: Its called time zone difference. So I cannot not vote because I was not around when the case was pushed? I actually thought him to be a serial killer rather than most who thinks his mafia. The flip do matters i tell you. You are saying like you know his scum/town before lynch. Time of vote matter but I agree its not applicable in my case because I was just not around when the case was pushed through. On June 07 2012 07:00 Hyaach wrote: I urge town to double read the case against me. It is just because I did not respond to a very shady vote on day one. On June 07 2012 07:10 Hyaach wrote: Not that good of a lynch but I believe it was still the best lynch last night. Mainly because claiming vig on day one is the safest blue. I believe Pandain was playing with the fact that townies are rather reluctant to lynch blues but burnt his finger doing so. Along with the vaguest of pressures on Furerkip. Hyaach is a guy who has failed to make any sort of case or contribute in any major way since the start of the game. He's no Furerkip in terms of inactivity, but I don't like it, and I don't like him. I was thinking G_403 was scummy, but really he hasn't been interacting much with anyone but MrZ. This caught my eye though, near the end of D1: On June 07 2012 03:02 ghost_403 wrote: B) I don't like how this Pandain lynch is going along. I don't believe his claim, but I'm not convinced he's scum. He could simply be an idiot townie trying to draw mafia shots toward himself for whatever reason. I'm not comfortable lynching him today. I'm actually not sure what I think about this. What we have here is G_403 basically calling exactly what's going to happen to pandain. He either had a great read or was scum. I guess my question is, G_403, where was the attempt to convince us that this was the case? You can't just plop your vote down on MrZ and bail and hope we all just follow you. I don't like Katina's play this game. I mean, obviously I don't like the play that targets me, but there's some really suspect stuff imo. A lot of leaps in logic and mis-characterizations. I'm really unfamiliar with Katina's meta but check it: On June 07 2012 07:16 Katina wrote: He comes out of nowhere with this post because he knows that people love to kill him and/or check him night 1. This is an attempt to divert suspicion from him and to ignore any evidence suggesting otherwise because he made it known early on. This is just wrong. VE gets a ton of suspicion since we know we can't check him... On June 07 2012 07:16 Katina wrote: VE is over emphasizing his Millerness. It reminds me of Bill Murray in jubjub where he got checked before the mafia converted him, and he just kept emphasizing that he was innocent cause he got checked. VE has been posting a lot and never mentioned his millerness after that initial claim and some questions. On June 07 2012 07:16 Katina wrote: Also we should kill blazinghand. ._. How much of this is just false? How much of it is misleading? Answer: yes. yes it is. Hope to see tomorrow <3 where I will be pressuring these 3 if I'm alive. No posts on furerkip because he's scum and will die like scum. | ||
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Well I look like shit now don't I | ||
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##vote: Furerkip | ||
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On June 08 2012 08:46 zelblade wrote: Does rb stop mafia's night kill? Since bh didn't get a rb notification (I am assuming this since he was speculating on a town jk), We either have a medic who doesn't know what he is doing, an offensive jail from a jk which might have led to the no kill (assuming hats how it works) or bh is lying about his claim. I don't think that the claim is fake, nor do I think that we have a dumb medic, so ##vote:furekip Either way bh do you have your bullet or is it gone? I got an rb notification, which is the same as I would have gotten if it were a jk. | ||
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On June 08 2012 08:46 zelblade wrote: Either way bh do you have your bullet or is it gone? I don't have my bullet any more. It's gone. | ||
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On June 08 2012 10:16 MrZentor wrote: Does anybody else find it suspicious that BOTH the mafia's shot and the supposed vigilante's shot got blocked? It would be just as suspicious if there was only one flip with the daypost of furerkip. | ||
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On June 08 2012 10:18 Katina wrote: It's a good way to derail the thread and switch the focus from scumhunting though. You never asked the host though. If I read correctly zelblade was the one that did. I didn't ask the host because I already knew. I responded to zelblade's question, then zelblade asked the host. If you read correctly you'd know this. | ||
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On June 08 2012 10:00 Katina wrote: From the contents in furerkip's filter I don't think we should lynch him today. I would like to see more from furer before we decide to make him a lynch candidate. Even though he hasn't spoken in days? | ||
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Your implication is that I'm the scum guy who sent in the kill, right, and I got blocked, and if not, I, scum, would have shot furerkip? | ||
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On June 08 2012 10:24 Katina wrote: Which is why I would like to see more from him. As with the Pandain lynch. I'm not completely comfortable with furer's lynch and would rather see you or VE lynched instead. I'd like to see more from furerkip too. And until I do, I won't unvote him. | ||
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On June 08 2012 10:29 MrZentor wrote: My implication is that it seems a lot more likely that one of the scum team, not necessarily you, tried to kill Furer. The person was roleblocked or Furerkip was jailed. Ah yes, you're right clearly scum has a lot to worry about from Furer, and it makes sense to claim vigi as scum knowing there'll be only one flip with the daypost how sensible, this is "a lot more likely" than me being a town vigi | ||
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On June 08 2012 10:51 MrZentor wrote: It isn't about the target. It's about making you "confirmed" vigilante. Right, but if there was only one kill night 1 I would not be a confirmed vigi at all... Like, ok maybe this is hard for you let me lay it out more simply: Imagine that D2 began and there was 1 nk, and he was furer. Every criticism being levied at me currently would still be levied at me, since there was only 1 nk. I would NOT be a confirmed vigilante. | ||
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On June 08 2012 10:50 Katina wrote: Why wouldn't the Mafia shoot furer? Mafia has to kill townies to win. It appears that from furer's filter the only person he really accused of being scum was VE. If the Mafia would have killed furer then it would have been done easily without drawing suspicion to the Mafia. As opposed lynching someone would has made good analysis the first day and drawing a large amount of suspicion. Lurkers are easy targets for the Mafia to go after. Baby Steps to Victory. Mafia wouldn't shoot furer because they don't want to kill another scum player LOLOLOL Seriously though: are you kidding me? As it stands, even if Furer is somehow Town, He's like the most helpful townie ever to keep around in LYLO because he's been utterly unhelpful, scummy, and lurking. Scum wouldn't want to remove him from the equation. | ||
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On June 08 2012 11:23 VisceraEyes wrote: Can scum shoot their own? Now THIS is some good tin-foil hat stuff: I'm scum with Furer, then wanted to shoot him, have him flip scum, thereby giving me hella credit, since he's being inactive and generally scummy. I don't think there's anything for me to say to this theory other than: let's lynch Furer and see if it's plausible first. | ||
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Although I'm down to lynch Furer today and will need some serious swaying not to lynch him, I don't want to just throw away 48 hours. Here are people who I'm currently hating on (besides Furer): Hyaach Shraft Both of you have raised my eternal ire. Beware, for the consequences of my eternal ire are dire. Seriously though are you guys playing or what | ||
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On June 08 2012 19:08 Hyaach wrote: I finds his day one post not deserving of a JK from town. Can anyone find any reason his a better RB target then others? Someone must have seen my crumb-- that seems fairly obvious to me. Also, the fact that both you and I were RBed means that in all likelihood there is both a scum RB and a town JK in this game. | ||
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On June 08 2012 19:17 Blazinghand wrote: Someone must have seen my crumb-- that seems fairly obvious to me. Also, the fact that both you and I were RBed means that in all likelihood there is both a scum RB and a town JK in this game. Oh, alternatively, I was RBed by a JK and you were RBed by an RB, and the JK RBed me because he thought I was gonna get shot OR cause he thought I was scum. The "two RBs" theories are back in play here. So in any case, now that you're in the thread, we got any cases or just speculation? Cause I can speculate all day with you and it won't turn into a case without you making one. Many people have found your play lacking, and this isn't much of an improvement. | ||
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On June 08 2012 19:20 Hyaach wrote: But why would anyone want to JK furp? His was the most useless out of lurkers and on the way to modkill. ?? You are aware of how a JK functions, right? A JK both saves AND roleblocks. I'm suggesting that *I* was JKed, thereby preventing my shot from firing. | ||
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But what you're leaving out is that all this I speculated before you claimed getting RBed last night. Any theory of Fur getting JKed (in an attempt, perhaps, to stop a nightkill or scum PR) goes out the window because I just don't see there being 3 roleblocking roles in this game. Here's what seems to be the only possibility now: I was JKed, and mafia shot me overnight. You were RBed. Assuming your claim of RB is true. | ||
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On June 08 2012 19:25 Hyaach wrote: and how do you explain mafia not killing anyone? One more RB in the mix? if so, why not claim and lynch the mafia? Look, before you claimed RB, the simplest solution was that I got JKed and the mafia shot me. Now it seems likely that you got RBed. I can't imagine why on earth scum would RB you. Town definitely doesn't have 2 JKs and a vigi, and even a JK, a vigi, and a town RB seem pretty unlikely. Both of our claims being true seems pretty unlikely, actually. Unless someone can come up with a better explanation, I think you're faking your RB claim to undermine me. | ||
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1) Scum RBed Hyaach 2) Either Hyaach or me is lying. I see 1 as pretty unlikely. Hyaach doesn't look blue to me. He looks red. | ||
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I'll start with what we know: I think it's pretty obvious one of us is scum. Last night, the shot from scum didn't go through. My shot didn't go through either, but for all you know, that's the same shot. Hyaach and I both claimed RBs, one of which was the JK or Town RBer's RB, and one of which was scum RB. The scum bullet got stopped because either A) the shooter was RBed, or because B) the target was JKed. Now, under condition *A*, either Hyaach or I must be scum. However, given the possibility of a JK, there's a chance that scum inexplicably RBed Hyaach and the JK JKed me, thereby accounting for all the failed NKs. The only person (besides scum) who knows exactly what happened is the town RB/JK. If the town RBer is an RBer, then he knows exactly what happened: HIS N1 TARGET HAS TO BE SCUM. Now, town RBer, if you are an RB and not a JK, you COULD claim right now and we could lynch whoever it was you RBed last night. However, if you're a JK, things are different. It's possible that whoever you targeted was actually shot by scum, and scum RBed the other guy. I think the RBer should claim if, in the debate between me and Hyaach, things go the wrong way. You know who you are, RBer, and if the wrong guy is getting lynched, you can gaurantee a scumlynch instead of a mislynch. If I were in your position, AND if it looks like the wrong guy is gonna get lynched, I'd claim. Of course, I fully anticipate shutting Hyaach down and getting him lynched, since I'm a better debater and he's pretty clearly scum. So don't worry about roleclaiming yet. Also, if you're a JK and not an RBer, you can't be sure. Maybe scum is shooting into lurkers and your JKing of Hyaach stopped them! But more likely, Hyaach, the guy you JKed, is scum. Your claim wouldn't be definitive like an RBer claim would be. Don't worry though, hidden blue player. I got it covered. We lynch Hyaach today. He can't be town. ##unvote ##vote: Hyaach | ||
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On June 08 2012 19:51 Shraft wrote: A ninja vote should not be very dangerous. The only scenario where it can make a difference is if we have five votes on someone, and he comes in and drops the deciding vote. Yeah and honestly if he shows up in hour 47 and drops a vote, that's basically him claiming scum. I think right now we have basically a scumclaim from Hyaach so there you go. | ||
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On June 08 2012 19:59 zelblade wrote: I also highly doubt scum would RB him and its actually more likely that hyaach got JK'd. If Hyaach was JKed, then we have two possibilities: either scum shot him, or he is scum. | ||
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On June 08 2012 20:01 Shraft wrote: Forgive me if I'm dumb, but isn't it possible that town has a medic as well? You shoot furer, got roleblocked by town/scum RB, Hyaach got roleblocked for whatever reason, and medic saved the other (mafia/vig) target? There aren't any medics in the setup, just JKs, from what I read in the OP. | ||
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1) I was RBed by scum, or maybe a town RB/JK 2) Hyaach was RBed or JKed by a town RB/JK 3) Scum shot an SK who took the "extra night life" option This is a way Hyaach and I could both be town, but it means there's an SK in the game and Scum shot him last night. | ||
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On June 08 2012 20:11 zelblade wrote: There is also a reason why scum would claim them getting roleblocked even though it might make them look bad. Imagine you are a JK who just jked say scummy player X and there was no NK. You probably suspect that X is scum and u blocked his kill, and this will be amplified especially if X doesnt claim the rb as it would show that he has something to hide. Well claiming the RB makes X look a *little* better. Oh, I hadn't thought about that. So in this case, a JK JKed Hyaach, who was delivering the NK, and Hyaach HAS to claim it, since as scum, he knows it was a town JK that JKed him. If he doesn't claim it, he's obviously scum hiding it. | ||
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Weigh in! Let me know what you think! | ||
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=341663¤tpage=9#177 On June 06 2012 11:19 Blazinghand wrote: there's like no way that's a legit claim Because as soon as I made it, I realized I'd soft-claimed Vigi. This is a huge mistake. I needed to backpedal. If I immediately pushed Pandain it'd be clear to scum that I was the real Vigi and I'd get RBed + Shot N1. On June 06 2012 11:23 Blazinghand wrote: Alright, if we believe Pandain's claim, then why don't we follow up with my course of action: We lynch MrZ (or maybe Navi if he seems scummier). If MrZ flips town, sure, shoot me. But I think he's gonna flip scum. "Oh Blazinghand what's with this point" At this point, I still thought MrZ was scum. I figured we could just lynch him, and I'd shoot Pandain, with my bullet, overnight. I knew Pandain was scum because he couldn't also be a vigi. When a vigi fake-claims, as a real vigi it's pretty standard to just shoot him to prove you're the real vigi, this was my initial plan until I got some support for the Pandain lynch. Like, you're all wondering why I stepped a bit lightly around Pandain. The reason is: you'd do the same if you're a vigi confronting a fake-vigi-claiming scum. | ||
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On June 08 2012 22:02 ghost_403 wrote: I don't buy Blazinghand's claim. Compare and contrast the Blazinghand from this game with the blazinghand from TL Mafia LIV. In LIV, he actually was a vigilante, and he was the aggressive protown blazinghand I've seen in most of his games. His first post in that game is voting someone for a scumslip. This is completely different from his play here. That modkill happened in TLM LIII. Last I checked, LIII < LIV. Are you kidding me? You're misleading the town. I wasn't a Vigilante in that game, I was a Mad Hatter. I was TRYING to draw mafia attention. Getting shot was my #1 goal, and I carried it out. I didn't care if I was RBed, and I *wanted* to be shot. That's like the opposite of what you try to do N1 as a vigi (though I guess getting shot is ok)-- you need to avoid getting RBed or claiming vigi. Like, wow, way to misrepresent me. In fact, I can't imagine you somehow "mixed up" Mad Hatter and Vigi or failed to understand the consequences of the FUNDAMENTAL difference between a role that WANTS to die and a role that needs to dodge RB. You're clearly scum trying to get on my wagon with "original research" so you look legit. Explain yourself. ##unvote ##vote: Ghost_403 Or die. | ||
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##unvote Ghost_403 ## vote Hyaach | ||
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On June 09 2012 09:26 VisceraEyes wrote: No sir...I posted like the exact same thing when I saw his claim...saying that isn't "soft-claiming" vig it's knowing his claim was bullshit when it was. Well yeah, from your perspective, sure, it's not soft-claiming. But you're not worried about a soft-claim cause you're not a vigi. If you're a vigi, you worry about these things more. Something that might seem innocuous if said by a townie seems weird after you've posted it. It's a matter of perspective. On June 09 2012 10:29 zelblade wrote: Hey so bh why has your posting style changed so much? Also I wouldn't mind lynching mrz but I want to get this hyaach bh shit settled today. Man I don't get where people are saying there's some massive shift in my posting style. I'm trying to hunt scum, some guy claimed my role, and it's a situation I hadn't been in before. Naturally, I was more cautious, as I explained before. I didn't want to roleclaim to deal with it. Look I think today we should focus on lynching Hyaach. I don't like MrZ and I don't like Furerkip but Hyaach is supremely unlikely to be town given what happened overnight. | ||
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On June 09 2012 11:24 Snarfs wrote: So, VE, you're saying that you don't think that this logic makes sense? And you don't think that the fact that he was "AVOIDING DOING SCUMMY THINGS" could be attributed to a vigilante trying to survive until the night? Biggest BH scumtell: not being scummy | ||
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On June 09 2012 13:39 Hyaach wrote: What do you mean by off? Where's the explanation? Can you stick to a stance? You are floating along with the wind. Why so wish washy. It's also worth noting that Zelblade still has his vote on Furerkip. Zelblade, if you're really town you're wasting your vote by putting it on Furerkip. It's super super clear that hyaach or me is gonna get lynched today. Furerkip will either get modkilled for not voting, or if he ninja votes and is alive tomorrow, lynched tomorrow. By not helping out your townread out of the two of us, what do you really hope to accomplish? Navillus, you haven't voted yet either. Read my filter. Read hyaach's filter. It seems pretty clear my play has been different this game, but Pandain really threw me for a loop. I did what I could in the circumstances, to get scum lynched, and I'd do it again (though maybe not to Pandain, given that he will do shit like this as a VT). I think you know I'm town, and if so, you should vote to lynch hyaach. As it stands, Hyaach and I each have 4 votes. Hyaach has stated he'll do whatever it takes to stay alive, and no doubt this includes placing his vote on me. I'm dead at nightfall unless at least 1 or 2 of VE, Ghost, Artanis, Katina, or one of the neutral voters (Navi or Zel) swing my way. If you're the RBer or JKer, don't claim. It's not worth saving me to throw your life away. Hyaach will be lynched (maybe even ahead of Furerkip) after I flip. The case against me is almost entirely meta. In fact, the only other time I was mislynched (link) it was also due to a case based in large part on my not playing to my "meta". This sort of case is profoundly difficult to argue against, because most people play a little different every game. My play is admittedly less abrasive than it has been historically, but it's following a trendline of abrasiveness. check it out: This exact case could have been made against me literally every game following my ban, in both LIV and LV, as I toned down and refined my play. Believe it or not, getting known as an aggressively but ultimately unhelpful player is NOT my goal on TL. And I don't view the evolution of my meta as bad in any way. Am I punching people with my posts this game? No. Is that bad? I don't think so. Did Pandain flip town? Yes. But he fake-claimed vig as a VT. I did what I thought was right. I don't want to be mislynched. I'd rather we just lynch Hyaach, scum, and thereby have an extra mislynch on the table. I get the feeling we're going to be okay this game even if we lynch me, but I'd rather that not happen. And I guess the real question to ask yourself is: until this RB question came up, you probably thought Hyaach was scum and I was town, right? Yeah, there were some weird night actions last night, but if I'm not scum, the only possibility is that scum shot Hyaach last night. Is that what you're saying? What sounds more plausible, that scum shot me, or that scum shot Hyaach, given what they knew N1? Look at what hyaach's filter looked like N1. Think about it. I can't fight the meta case very well, but I *can* show you guys how unreasonable night actions had to be for Hyaach to be town. THINK ABOUT IT. You know it's unreasonable. Vote Hyaach. Don't mislynch today. | ||
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Think about what that means. look at where Hyaach's filter was like N1. Would Mafia even perceive that kind of player as RBable or Shootable, especially with all the crap he was getting? Come on guys. See past the meta case and realize how unreasonable it is to vote me. | ||
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On June 09 2012 16:28 Hyaach wrote: EBWOP Or mafia(you) shot AND rbed me last night because I was lurky as hell and am not in your scum team. blue snipe maybe? Right, that falls under "mafia either shot or RBed Hyaach" the idea that mafia would RB you is utterly preposterous and you know it | ||
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On June 09 2012 16:24 Hyaach wrote: Read the quote again its not just about his meta. Its about him failing to pressure Pandain after the fake claim and going up with MrZ Why bother to argue about game mechanics and balance like Mason claiming and what does the bold post shows again? His saving crumbs for a possible fake mason claim as well? Oh, of course, IT TOTALLY MAKES SENSE FOR SCUM TO FAKE A MASON CLAIM. Yeah. Clearly. That doesn't even look like a crumb for a mason claim. What the dicks are you talking about? Like, I don't even know how to argue with this. It's like I'm arguing that a certain belief is epistemologically sound and my opponent is just shouting "grail" at the top of his lungs with no context or explanation as though that's an argument. | ||
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On June 09 2012 16:32 Hyaach wrote: no its not. If mafia know i wasn't in his team, why would he not try to RB me as a form of blue snipe? Because you were next on the lynch list with Zelblade after Furerkip before the night actions. | ||
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On June 09 2012 16:35 Hyaach wrote: its far fetched but not entirely impossible. Framer + GF mason. Caps lock won't help you. Given the fake claim by Pandain and the shady claim by you. I wouldn't be surprise if you also considered doing this. Putting stuff in bold and [bigbigbig] wont' help you either. I don't see how Pandain fake claiming makes it more likely that 2 scum would claim mason. Also, like, if you think that was a legitimate mason crumb, 2 things: 1) on a scumteam with a GF and a Framer do you think there's also an RB? 2) on a scumteam with a GF and a Framer would either of them be deliving NKs? oh and another thing: if you really believe your own idea about me setting up to fakeclaim mason, then the other scum player I was gonna fakeclaim it with should have fake-crumbed as well! instead of making weird arguments, go find it and prove yourself right. | ||
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On June 09 2012 16:36 Hyaach wrote: But I would still have a night action don't I? Not letting me use my night action completely shut down my chances of proving town-ness next day. sounds like a good plan to prepare someone for lynching. How on earth would scum think you have a night action? And typically it's smart scum play to RB the same guy that is shot, that way the RB isn't revealed. | ||
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On June 09 2012 16:24 Hyaach wrote: He issketchy at best. This, coupled with the fact that you keep attacking me, yet haven't voted me... what's the deal, Hyaach? Trying to set up some WIFOM for when I flip town? | ||
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How on earth was I RBed? Wtf? You're saying you were RBed, AND you're the JK, but *I* was RBED! I was shooting Furerkip! | ||
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HELL, even if I was scum and shooting you, the shot would have still gone through. | ||
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Your claim LITERALLY can't be true. What's it with people fakeclaiming against me this game? | ||
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On June 09 2012 16:46 Hyaach wrote: Yes. I was RBed. I know my action on VE last night did not go through. You claim you were RBed. Its not possible because I did not JK'ed you. So you either are lying. Or town has another RB which would mean you are town. OR I WAS RBED BY SCUM AND YOU'RE LYING. Fuck ok man how are there 0 NKs. HOW. EXPLAIN HOW THERE ARE 0 NKs. | ||
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On June 09 2012 16:47 Hyaach wrote: You are mafia and you got town roleblocked. By a SECOND town JK/RB? Are you serious? | ||
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On June 09 2012 16:48 Hyaach wrote: There is no VIG. You are mafia and got town blocked. By a second jailkeeper? | ||
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On June 09 2012 16:49 Hyaach wrote: by a role blocker. Is there any reason at all for anyone to believe your JK claim? | ||
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On June 09 2012 16:49 Hyaach wrote: A town role block and JK existing together is possible given the set up. It contains no medic. The idea of town having an RB and a JK *and* mafia having an RB is possible but is super super super more unlikely than: you're a fakeclaiming scum. | ||
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On June 09 2012 16:52 Hyaach wrote: Or any reason to believe your VIG claim? Just read through my analysis about the night. I shut down every JK scenario. That's my breadcrumb. I was so sure no one was JK last night so your VIG claim is sketchy at BEST. You keep on saying my vig claim is sketchy, but I claimed it during the talk hour at night, and you've claimed JK for no reason with no way to substantiate it to provide to help to town whatsoever. You're even winning in the vote to lynch! If you were really a JK, you wouldn't do this because you're just gonna get shot tonight like a punk. | ||
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On June 09 2012 16:54 Hyaach wrote: And you would know how WGB gave out his roles? Well you seem to quite well, mr "There must be an RB in addition to a JK" | ||
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I'm gonna head to bed. I'll be back before the lynch. Do the right thing. | ||
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Remember, if you vote for me, you're saying "yeah, the scum didn't RB their shooting target N1 like every TL town does. Instead, they RBed Hyaach, who was totally a threat to them at the time. Also, we have both an RB and a JK in this game" Is anyone whose vote is on me around? Can we discuss this? | ||
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On June 10 2012 05:16 Shraft wrote: But why'd he lie about getting RBed? All it did was strengthen the Hyaach vs BH situation (i.e. made it seem more likely that one of you are scum) which is something he would want to avoid if he is scum. I still haven't really decided who to vote for, actually. I am considering switching my vote onto you, but I have not made up my mind yet. But why would a town JK Hyaach even claim? It didn't help his case at all. Either way you look at it, Hyaach is a scummy and not-great player who made sub-optimal decisions, so you can't just say "well it's illogical if he's scum" because it's also illogical if he's town. | ||
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On June 10 2012 06:01 Shraft wrote: If you read more carefully, you'll notice that I am talking about his RB claim, not his JK claim. Well, if Shraft was RBed, he has to claim it, doesn't he? If he doesn't claim it, the real JK knows he's hiding it and is scum. | ||
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On June 10 2012 06:15 Shraft wrote: You are missing the point. Read his original reason for voting. We are arguing from the premise that there is only one roleblocker, meaning that either you or Hyaach is scum. Voting for Hyaach means that he has to explain why Hyaach fake-claimed RB 6 hours after you claimed your roleblock. I'm arguing from the premise that there is a scum RB and a town JK. In this possibility, I was RBed by scum AND shot by scum. Hyaach was delivering the shot, but he was roleblocked by the town JK. Granted, there could be a single town JK and no scum RB, and the town JK saved me and Hyaach fakeclaimed being RBed. But is that really more likely than "our JK JKed Hyaach, so he had to claim it, and scum stacked their RB on their night kill as they normally do"? I think my scenario is more reasonable, and explains why Hyaach claimed an RB. | ||
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On June 10 2012 06:37 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Blazinghand isn't particularly afraid of making risky plays. The question is not if Town would lynch him for it, but if Blazinghand thinks he could get away with it if he was scum. Given he could make this play as both town and scum, I don't think you're giving him enough credit here. I hate to agree with Artanis pointing out how I could do this as scum but I'm a sucker for a compliment: + Show Spoiler + Seriously, though, there's no reasonable town explanation for Hyaach's actions, and the simplest answer is that I'm town and he's scum. | ||
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On June 10 2012 06:49 Artanis[Xp] wrote: We need at least one more person in here that hasn't voted yet or have someone switch from BH to hyaach. If no one's here I'm willing to switch to BH to make at least one of these two die today. All the scum on my wagon are conveniently AFK at lynch time, so they won't switch over. | ||
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Snarfs, Shraft, MrZ, Navi, ARtanis, Blazinghand -- 6 trying to lynch Hyaach This current vote count is correct as far as I can tell | ||
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On June 10 2012 07:09 Blazinghand wrote: Wait if he was RBed then who RBed me? Actually don't answer this. RBer shouldn't claim. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + <3 Alright I'm off to the gym, usual night analysis will happen during the final hour. If anyone has any questions, comments or concerns, feel free to ask me. I *was* roleblocked last night, so the only explanation (outside of a 2nd jailkeeper or scum holding fire) is that scum shot the SK last night. | ||
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We really can't have another mislynch. You can roleclaim and save my life. I recommend you do so in the final hour of the night, so that scum can't move their shot onto you after the roleclaim. Alternatively, if you're pretty sure scum won't shoot you regardless, you can just wait until D3 and claim then if it looks like I'm gonna get lynched. Do not claim any time before the final hour of tonight. Please claim, though, and save me, either in the final hour of tonight, or if you have good crumbs in case you die, tomorrow. People aren't going to believe that there's an SK in the game and you RBed Hyaach and scum RBed me and shot the SK unless you do so. We can't have another mislynch. There's nothing else I can really say in my defense at this point. I'll be back during the final hour of the night. | ||
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This might mean shooting me. As an addendum to the town RB, maybe you should just crumb decently and hold off your claim until daybreak, that way if I die overnight you didn't claim for nothing. | ||
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So, with that, good night. | ||
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Either I'm getting shot tonight by the SK or the town RB will claim just after dawn to save my life. No other option is acceptable. | ||
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On June 10 2012 09:04 Katina wrote: Yep. There was no way Hyaach was Mafia. We need to lynch blazinghand tomorrow. No doubt about it. He has lead to two townie deaths now and it needs to stop. He has been scummy from the beginning. He shouldn't have been let to live this long. If the town RB stepped forwards after daybreak and said that he RBed Hyaach N1 (and therefore scum must have RBed me and shot the SK) would that convince you of my innocence? Same question for you VE. Do you not even see how it's possible I'm town? All it takes is an SK in the game. | ||
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SK just shoot me lol. RBer if I'm still alive at daybreak, you're gonna have to save me. | ||
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On June 10 2012 12:23 Navillus wrote: Okay BH, what happens if neither of those happen? What should we do and how would you explain it then? If neither of those happen and Furerkip is alive, I'll push as hard as possible that we lynch him first, and hope those things happen N3. I doubt I'll be successful but it will be the only avenue left. If neither of those happen and Furerkip is dead, I will get lynched tomorrow. I don't know why the town RB WOULDN'T claim to prevent a mislynch, though. Given that I'm town, there MUST be both a town RB AND a Serial Killer. I know the town RB is out there, and I KNOW he KNOWS I'm innocent because he roleblocked Hyaach. It's worth the roleclaim for him to save me if I'm alive after daybreak. The only possibility where there isn't a Town RB AND a Serial Killer is the one where I'm scum. I personally know this isn't the case, so I don't even consider it. The Town RB obviously isn't terrible-- roleblocking Hyaach was a decent move given how he looked during N1. He'll know it's worth it to claim to prevent us from wasting out final mislynch on me. On June 10 2012 12:27 VisceraEyes wrote: I think he's panicking caught sum. BH if you're town stop wasting time talking to hypothetical roles and do something productive. Tell me your FULL thoughts on Katina, leave nothing out. Panicking caught scum? Really? Look dude, I spent all day pushing for a Hyaach lynch, and he claimed JK well before the deadline. If I were scum I definitely would have a plan. Also, I'm not wasting time, I'm making my thoughts clear. Look VE, you have to admit, the only scenario in which I am town is one in which there is BOTH A) a town roleblocker and B) a serial killer. I'm the only person who knows I'm town besides those two (and scum). I see an opportunity where we can avoid a mislynch, either via my death tonight or via an RB claim. Why shouldn't I try to unambiguously direct the RB and the SK? The RB knows I'm innocent and the SK probably suspects it. Fair question. I'll tell you my full thoughts on Katina, AND my full thoughts on certain other players, during the final hour of the night. You certainly can't expect me to do so right now. | ||
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On June 10 2012 15:24 Blazinghand wrote: Panicking caught scum? Really? Look dude, I spent all day pushing for a Hyaach lynch, and he claimed JK well before the deadline. If I were scum I definitely would have a plan (that works for scum. my current plan literally only works if I'm town). Also, I'm not wasting time, I'm making my thoughts clear. | ||
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I think it's weird that Snarfs is agreeing with me so much. A townie would do more to pressure me. I mean, it's nice not to be attacked by SOMEONE but it's also weird. If I die before daybreak, pressure him in my wake. VE is less abrasive towards me (he took longer to swing around to attacking me) than he was in SOAF (filter link), when it was the same blue-vt relationship between us. This could be because I'm playing differently. The fact that he claimed Miller seems weirder given that we don't have any investigative roles, but I wouldn't put it past WBG to give us a Miller and no Cops. He's helping town but he's not confirmed town-- bear this in mind. So yeah, Katina scummy, and a little more pressure on Snarfs and VE would be nice. As a side note to you tinfoil-hatters: I'm not the SK. And if I were, well the SK should be helping the town right now anyways. I hope I die before I wake. <3 town for eva + Show Spoiler + | ||
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##vote Palmar He has not. | ||
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On June 11 2012 07:34 Katina wrote: I have had reads on more then one person. I haven't just been going after to you either. I don't have a free pass, I have trying to help the town fnd scum and contribute. Your accusations against the players in this post are weak. You are pointing fingers at multiple people and doing a poor job at it. The post is intended as a post of some thoughts of players who are perceived as scum who haven't been pressured but should be. Right now my finger is only pointed at one player, and that's Palmar. What are your thoughts? | ||
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On June 11 2012 07:37 Katina wrote: Then you proceed to vote for Palmar I don't remember him being in your night post about who you thought was scummy. Yet again you are throwing around more doubt and throwing around empty accusations on top of your play this gme. Blazinghand has to be Mafia because Hyaach flipped JK and has so many red flags. It's time for him to be lynched. ##Vote Blazinghand .... Are you kidding me? I'm not even going to point you towards where I said I was attacking Furerkip the next day because clearly you're not doing any analysis on me, you're just trying to find excuses to vote me. | ||
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On June 11 2012 07:43 Katina wrote: Blazinghand, I really don't need to find an excuse to vote you. You have proven that for me this game. I just pointed it out. You are Mafia and got RB'd n 1. Hyaach was RB'd as well and flipped blue. He was RB'd by Mafia and you were RB'd by the town. I bolded the parts that you have no way of proving, and are gonna be proven wrong about very soon. Look, here's what's gonna happen: a bunch of sheeps, scum, and people who are genuinely concerned I may be scum are gonna hop on my wagon, then at some point in the process (whenever he logs in) the town RB will claim, and he'll say he RBed Hyaach N1. Then, you're going to look | ||
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On June 11 2012 08:11 ghost_403 wrote: [*] If there was another town RB, why wouldn't he claim at this point? Mislynching BH at this stage in the game puts us one mislynch closer to losing. He's jeopardizing his own chances of winning by not blaiming to have RB'd BH. Therefore, BH was not roleblocked by another town RB. So then, we are in agreement: once the RB claims, I'm town, and you'll unvote me. | ||
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On June 11 2012 08:11 ghost_403 wrote: [*] Blazinghand is not playing this game the way he's played as a Vig in the past. I didn't have to deal with Pandain D1 in the past. And it's Totally reasonable that I was so: link to explanation This point only counts if this isn't something I do as town. On June 11 2012 08:11 ghost_403 wrote: [*] Blazinghand hasn't had a town RB come to his rescue. ...YET. Give it a few hours! He might be asleep or not as his computer. He'll save me, just you wait. It's reasonable that your vote is on me at this point, but you better unvote me when the RB claims. | ||
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On June 11 2012 08:16 ghost_403 wrote: @BH: I'm not holding my breath. I wouldn't recommend it if I were you, either. Also, you never answered my previous question. Honestly, it's probably the only way I'd not get lynched given that Hyaach flipped JK. The RB knows as well as I do that a mislynch would be disastrous for town at this point, so he will claim to save me. My life depends on it. I'll naturally try to defend myself as best I can without his claim, but honestly it's unlikely I'll convince people to unvote me. Regarding the SK holding fire thing, I don't know. Maybe his plan was to pretend to be a townie and just have an extra night life in case mafia shot at him? I don't know nor do I care about his N1 motivations. I care about not causing a mislynch, and I care about lynching scum. | ||
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On June 11 2012 08:13 Blazinghand wrote: So then, we are in agreement: once the RB claims, I'm town, and you'll unvote me. BTW, for both Ghost and Katina, we're all on the same page with this, right? | ||
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On June 11 2012 08:29 ghost_403 wrote: If the town RB comes forward, I will reconsider. I'm not holding my breath. You keep on saying that you're not holding your breath. How can you be so sure? You really can't know, and it's only been an hour and a half since daybreak, and one of your points was that the RB hasn't come forward when the only active players are you, me, and Katina. If the town RB comes forward, doesn't that conclusively prove my innocence? Or will you find another bad excuse to vote me? Man, I liked having VE around. He might have been pushing me, but it was clear his goal was "lynch scum", not "lynch blazinghand". | ||
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On June 11 2012 08:36 ghost_403 wrote: @blazinghand: stop spamming up the thread. Your goal should be to convince the town that you're town, not me. Oh, aren't you part of the town? <3 good scumslip, +2 pts | ||
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On June 11 2012 08:38 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Why did we need to have an SK again for you to be innocent? Given we've had two nights with a total of one night kill I'd say the odds are stacked against there being an SK in the game, especially considering it's a game with only 13 players. Well, given that Hyaach was RBed N1, it's very weird that there was no mafia shot-- nobody was medicced. Unless the town RBer is actually a second JK, this means that scum shot the SK OR scum held their fire. | ||
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This isn't a particularly auspicious pool of saviors for me. It's supremely unlikely that Palmar is the RB given that Furerkip left the game partway through D1 and Palmar wasn't replaced in until just now. I don't like Snarfs. ;_; On June 11 2012 09:13 Artanis[Xp] wrote: @Navillus I think if BH is scum, so is Snarfs, yet the other way doesn't have to be the case. Therefore I feel more comfortable with a Snarfs lynch at this point. I'd be comfortable with it since it's not me. | ||
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I guess what I'm saying is I really hope MrZ comes back to the thread soon. | ||
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On June 11 2012 23:21 Palmar wrote: We should kill Blazinghand, he has been pushing a bad lynch based on inactivity, and when the inactivity is explained (the player is simply not playing anymore) he doesn't look at the evidence from the only point furer seems to have been playing the game, instead keeps his tunneling up. Is this actually your only reason for voting me? | ||
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On June 12 2012 01:46 Palmar wrote: Yes. The fact that you even consider furer's inactivity a factor in the equation makes you scum. That's interesting, because I think my case was pretty straightforwards: On June 11 2012 07:22 Blazinghand wrote: Palmar needs to move mountains to make up for Furerkip's silence. ##vote Palmar He has not. I'm not voting you because Furerkip was lurking, I'm voting you because you were lurking. Furerkip's silence means we have no read on him. The fact that you still haven't read the filter and the case on the only non-me vote indicates to me that you're not doing what you need to to establish yourself as town. After we mislynch me, tomorrow is LYLO (at 5-3), and you're a liability unless you can make some serious contributions. You still have not. So you still have my vote. | ||
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FINE FINE THEN I SEE HOW IT IS | ||
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I am the Serial Killer. N1 I fired at Furerkip, and was RBed. N2 I fired at VE. I did so because given a town JK and a town RB, it was weird that we'd have a miller. The Mafia haven't killed anyone yet this game. Don't lynch me YET, town. I CAN HELP YOU. I have infinite bullets. I don't know if I still have my night life, but I can at least try to kill a scum tonight, and maybe they won't shoot me anyways because you'll have to lynch me eventually. I know as an SK it's terrible to claim, but if I die today I definitely can't win. Let me help you. I even fuckign crumbed my goddamn SK role cause I thought it might come down to this. I was super sure Mafia RBed me AND shot me N1, too! On June 09 2012 16:32 Blazinghand wrote: Oh, of course, IT TOTALLY MAKES SENSE FOR SCUM TO FAKE A MASON CLAIM. Yeah. Clearly. That doesn't even look like a crumb for a mason claim. What the dicks are you talking about? Like, I don't even know how to argue with this. It's like I'm arguing that a certain belief is epistemologically sound and my opponent is just shouting "grail" at the top of his lungs with no context or explanation as though that's an argument. My crumb is Grail, an out of place word that is a holy vessel-- and Vessels are the signature unit of SK terran. SK = Serial Killer. Yes, I'm not town-aligned. But don't kill me today. Let me help you. My only crumb for the VE kill was that he was the first guy I mentioned in my just-before-day post. I wanted it to be obtuse because I was hoping the town RB would claim and save me, but he's either an ass or he realized i'm the SK. | ||
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On June 12 2012 02:01 Palmar wrote: oh rofl, while I was writing that you claimed SK gg baddie. It's more important we lynch scum than we lynch me. | ||
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Hell, Snarfs has probably been planning for me to flip SK so he can look good. Let's lynch him today, I'll shoot someone tonight, and then tomorrow if you still think I'm not the SK, fine, whatever. But if you lynch me today, you go into LYLO with no mafia lynches-- no associative tells, no nothing. It's not worth it. | ||
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On June 12 2012 02:07 Palmar wrote: I don't actually care though. You're anti-town and we have a guaranteed lynch. It's almost irrelevant if I believe you or not, I still want to lynch you. bolded the part that's wrong. I'm not! Right now, I'm not! sure, if we lynch and shoot a mafia, then yeah ok I'm anti-town. But right now I need you, and you need me. I want scum dead. I can HELP YOU. | ||
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On June 11 2012 03:48 wherebugsgo wrote: A roleblocked serial killer will not be able to shoot but his bulletproof or investigation immunity would not be affected. | ||
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On June 12 2012 02:09 MrZentor wrote: Why haven't mafia killed anybody? I think they shot me N1, and the unclaimed roleblocked player OR artanis was delivering last night's NK. | ||
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On June 12 2012 02:08 ghost_403 wrote: Still voting blazinghand. LET ME HELP YOU | ||
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On June 12 2012 02:10 ghost_403 wrote: Blazinghand, the only person you've pushed as a lynch target so far today is Palmar. You've been profoundly unhelpful at helping us find scum. This combined with the fact that we need to lynch you anyway makes you the ideal lynch candidate. And Snarfs! I'd lie to lynch Snarfs! | ||
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god, what a terrible typo | ||
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On June 12 2012 02:12 zelblade wrote: Thinking about it now though ve could have been stacked.. Need to sleep on this OH DAMN YEAH. That too. I don't know why scum would shoot VE, cause I thought he was scum. But that's an explanation also. | ||
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##unvote ##vote: snarfs | ||
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On June 12 2012 02:17 Katina wrote: There were no kills n1, two people got RB'd one of them was the JK which means he couldn't have jailed anyone. Thus, the most likely scenerio is Blazinghand did the Mafia shot and it failed because he got RB'd. Any other scenerio is extremely far-fetched. What's this, Katina ignoring logic to justify keeping a vote on me? HOW REASONABLE. On June 12 2012 02:25 MrZentor wrote: BH, the problem I'm having is that if your first night roleblocker existed, I think he would have claimed by now. Me too! I'm pretty mad at him. He either figured out I'm the SK or is just a dack. Now that I've outed myself as the SK, there's no reason for him to out himself unless he thinks I'm still gonna get lynched. Also, he might just be down with an SK lynch. I think It's also like super super worth noting that Mafia know I'm the SK, and are completely terrified of me now. I need to use my shots in a pro-town way, and I have tons of shots. Mafia in their Mafia QT are probably shitting all over themselves and each other trying to make sure I get lynched today, because I'm a huge threat. To them, I'm effectively a town vig with infinite bullets who might occasionally aim for townies but is basically gonna shot at them right now. They're scared. They want me dead. Think about it. I'm here to help. Lynch me tomorrow if you must, but lynch Mafia today. | ||
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On June 12 2012 03:12 Snarfs wrote: Guess I have too much faith in the intelligence of other players. Tell me, BH, how did you honestly expect not to be lynched before lylo with your vig claim? Because clearly if your goal was to lynch everyone who thought you might be town you would have failed pretty damn quick. Cause I was the *SK*. I'd be easily confirmed town if I called a shot and made it! I didn't KNOW I was gonna get Rbed N1. And as a confirmed town, sure, maybe scum would try to shoot me one night, but I picked the extra night life just in case! It was gonna be awesome. You're saying my shit makes no sense as a mafia player, and that's cause it doesn't. Cuase I'm SK. Don't lynch me!. | ||
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On June 12 2012 03:32 ghost_403 wrote: @BH: What are your thoughts on Katina? 1) They haven't changed since just before daybreak. On June 11 2012 06:59 Blazinghand wrote: I don't like that Katina has had a free pass on analysis because all she does is attack me. Katina occasionally lurks but Katina also typically has thoughts on more than one player, and will post aggressively to respond to multiple players in the thread. Check her Liar Game filter for an example of her VT play: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=333034&user=248411 Katina's Town play is not tunnelling and lurking like this. Aggressively pushing me isn't a bad thing, but when it absorbs all of your play and you play in an uncharacteristic and actually kinda unhelpful fashion as a result (especially compared with the last town game), it raises eyebrows. 2) Katina, I'd like to apologize, I've been using the masculine pronoun for you when from what other people have been saying you are in fact not a dude. I'm sorry. | ||
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Like, wtf, town RB. Way to not save me. Unless you figured out it was in fact me who was the SK. But seriously, only one claimed RB today? I didn't fakeclaim the RB N1, and neither did Hyaach. Like, we can agree 100% that I was RBed N1. And there's NO WAY Hyaach fakeclaimed his RB. So there are two RBErs. Why is there only one RB from last night? Did the RBer oh ohhhhhh Scum RBed VE and shot him! they stacked RB and shot, just like they did N1. ok so this means the town RBer RBed Artanis. OR ARTANIS IS THE SCUM RBER. WHY IS THERE ONLY ONE RB CLAIM FROM LAST NIGHT? Think about it. | ||
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Hyaach was RBed, he wouldn't lie, he was the JK, and VE, the town Miller, didn't claim getting RBed. As SK OR SCUM I clearly must have been RBed. My called shot on Furerkip didn't go through. So what's the deal with the N2 RBs? Why isn't there a second RB claim? | ||
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I'm gonna spend some time looking at Snarfs' previous games to see if there's a meta case to support my general suspicion of him. | ||
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On June 12 2012 04:00 Artanis[Xp] wrote: But wait, that wouldn't explain the lack of a second KP in the case of you being SK. Strange. Perhaps Scum's messing with our minds. In my mind, here's what scum is doing: they're putting their RB on the same dude their NKing to hide the RB. They did it N1 with me. They did it last night with VE. That's the only reason I could think of for their not being a second RB tonight, other than that perhaps scum RBed you and you're the town RB, or town RBed you and you're the scum RB, or scum RBed you and the town RB RBed VE. | ||
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On June 12 2012 04:04 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Or the person that got RBed as well isn't telling us because he's scum. So in this case, scum RBed you, and whoever the town RB RBed is scum, and the town RB can claim in the last hour of N3 and reveal the scum. That would be good. He COULD ALSO CLAIM NOW AND SAVE ME, AND WE COULD LYNCH THIS GUY, BUT NOOOOOO | ||
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On June 12 2012 04:25 MrZentor wrote: Artanis, BH is scum. Technically, as scum includes both SK and Mafia in its definition, this is a true statement. | ||
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On June 12 2012 04:22 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Yes, so let's go back to scumhunting based on behavior. Care to start making some cases to prove you want to actually help town? I said I'm reading snarf's stupid history, but he always plays in PM games. His most recent non PM game is DF Mafia and that was 7 whole pages filter. Give me a second, jeez. I've spent all game trying to only be marginally helpful and now I have to be actually helpful and it sucks. | ||
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Blazinghand
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Snarfs is unafraid to move his vote around several times in the same day. He calls out cases that he thinks are bad (link) and will vote people for scummy play and move his vote around at the deadline (link) When he writes cases, they are typically big and monstrous quote-beasts (link). We can see from DF2 that he does his homework and tries to read people's meta as well (link). This is how Snarfs defends his case and increases the pressure on paperscraps in Wiggles MMII: (link). What we see is a player who regularly does a lot of research and writes long, complex posts. He's not abrasive, but he's not afraid to get into a logical discussion with someone as a town player. He doesn't post a huge amount, and a fair number of his posts are one-liners, but his cases and his votes are typically connected to a lot of analysis. Let's examine Snarfs' play in this game: He opens up by pressuring multiple players (link) and eventually voting me early in D1 (link) in a fashion that is typical of snarfs opening play as townie. He pushes me more aggressively here in a post directed at 2 people, as he did in Wiggles MMII (link). He does change his vote later in the day, but this could be because of his previous pandain experience. He votes for Hyaach for weird reasons, but this also falls in line with his late-day vote switch shenanigans. (link) Where I see Snarfs going "off the rails" a little is that he doesn't interact with Hyaach with the same sort of large posts we see out of him usually (interacting with Hyaach) but he has pushed some players with short posts before (BL in DF2). The big thing that strikes me as odd is his strident defense of me in the face of all opposition. But if we examine his play overall, we see 2 common themes: one, he flip flops a lot and is willing to post and vote based on relatively weak reads, and two, he will occasionally do a good deal of work to support an existing read of his. Although I haven't Snarfs do a hard defense of someone before, given sureness about me, it fits within his meta of flip flopping on some things but sticking to his guns on things he's sure on. I'm not willing to lynch him any more. ##unvote | ||
Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
On June 12 2012 05:45 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I think your defense of Snarfs is good. Thanks for that. ##Unvote ##Vote Blazinghand A regrettable, but understandable vote. I'm kinda dissapointed since I know there are 6 town players who aren't helping discuss anything but whether or not I am the SK. Let me lay it out for you guys-- how a claimed SK can win, and why this means helping town. This is the only win plan that can possibly work for a claimed SK, and you don't need to "control" me to do it: + Show Spoiler + Currently, We are at D3, 6-3-1. If we lynch me: N3: 6-3 D4: 5-3 LYLO with 3 scum -- very, very difficult. Even with good lynches, you'll have a D5 LYLO with 2 scum and a D6 LYLO with 1 scum, both of which will be hellish. If we lynch mafia instead: N3: 6-2-1 Now good things can happen-- Mafia and I will both try to shoot town, but I might hit Mafia and maybe Mafia wants to shoot me, both of which help town. Even if the worst thing happens and we both shoot town: D4: 4-2-1 LYLO with 2 Mafia! Here we need to lynch scum again. IF we do so, then at the start of N4: N4 4-1-1 Here's where things get interesting, I think. Scum will want to shoot town and so will I, but if I hit scum, town wins. That's a 20% chance right there (since the 3rd and final scum will be the one who is best-hidden, we're assuming random shots). BUT EVEN IF I SHOOT TOWN AGAIN (which I'm trying to do), town can STILL WIN. D5: 2-1-1 This is a special scenario. It looks like game over, right? WRONG. See, at 2-1-1, you want to lynch a townie. If you lynch me, scum shoots a townie and wins. If you lynch scum, I shoot a townie and win. If you lynch a townie, N5 is 1-1-1 and scum has to shoot me, and I'll shoot and whoever I don't shoot wins (and I won't know which faction will win, either!). So N5 is a 50-50 win-chance between town and scum! What this means is during a 2-1-1 D5, town wants to lynch town, and I want to lynch scum. Honestly, scum wants to lynch me, but has to pretend to want to lynch town. So we try to lynch the towniest player on D5, doing our best not to lynch scum. From our current gamestate, this is the only way I can win-- by getting it to 2-1-1, and lynching the scum player. There are numerous paths to the 2-1-1 where town can win, and even when we get there, there's a 2/3rds chance we lynch a townie, which gives town an additional 50% chance to win. "Now, wait, Blazinghand, what if we lynch town today? Won't we be boned?" Well, not quite. If you lynch town, I'll do my best to shoot scum overnight, since I don't want scum to win any more than I want you to win. If I shoot scum, we're back to the normal deal with the 50% winrate N5 and the various ways for you to win including me shooting another scum, or scum deciding to shoot me because I'm too And if I shoot town overnight? Well, then it's over. But after you lynch me, it'd be over after one mislynch anyways. Think about it-- I'll give you a second bite at the apple. I don't want Town to win. But now that I've claimed? My only POSSIBLE route to victory gives you a strong chance to win, a much stronger chance to win than it gives scum. You see, currently after you lynch me there are 3 LYLOs in a row. I shot VE for another reason, besides him attacking me in a smart way and the fact that he might be scum, and it's the same reason scum did: VE could possibly lead this town through multiple LYLOs if not shot. Without the JK saving him, scum took their chance to shoot him. He's a strong player. We don't have VE now. All we have is us. So, to summarize: Lynch me, and you have 3 terrible days of LYLO. You and I both know how TL towns do at LYLO 3 times in a row: not well. Lynch scum, and I have multiple chances to accidentally shoot scum, making things super easy for you guys, or even if I don't shoot scum by accident, you get a 50% chance of winning during N5! You only have to lynch scum at ONE LYLO in order to get this high chance of winning, compounded on all my accidentally shooting scum possibilities. In fact, there's a good chance scum will try to shoot me a second time sometime during this, leaving you with an extra lynch in the pocket! I don't WANT to help town, it's the only way I can win. Don't waste your only mislynch on me. Let's lynch scum. I'll try to shoot to keep us at LYLO, but I CAN'T let Mafia win. My goal is to make it to a day where it's 2-1-1, but frankly there's a good chance I'll get shot or shoot scum, and even if we make it there, there's still a chance a townie gets lynched and I'm stuck in a kingmaker scenario where I don't know who's who! 50% town victory! The odds are better if you let me live. Let's lynch scum, guys. It'll lower the scum win chance, and increase the town win chance, and yes, my win chance-- but it'll still help you. I claimed because I know as well as you do that I'm forced to try to help the town. If we mislynch and are dealing with MYLO tomorrow, I *will* try to shoot scum tonight. I will give us an extra bite at the apple! You know it! So now that you're convinced it's better to lynch Mafia than me, let me present to you the player who I think is Mafia. This case will be so convincing you'll realize it's better to lynch him than me. It'll give you something to unvote me for. I'm doing this for my own good, but it will incidentally help you. Let me help you. Let me lynch Zelblade. | ||
Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
My argument against him is mostly going to be analysis, but I'll talk about his meta as well. The two sources I'm using for his meta are LI, in which he was scum (link) and MTG Mini, in which he was town (link) to get a better understanding of how he plays. 1) Zelblade played D1 start to his scum meta. To get an idea of how Zelblade starts his scum games off, in LI he opened up with a bunch of questions and soft-defenses of town players (link)(link 2). This basically lets him make some minor contributions until he can find a safe wagon to hop on (link) but only after someone else, a townie, has made a case against that guy (link). He's not afraid to break ground with his vote, but he doesn't make any new cases. I'm not gonna talk about his D2 play from LI, because of the notorious 2-way bus that game-- our D2 was the opposite situation, where two players that weren't in his Scum QT where attacking each other. In his town play, Zelblade is different. As he goes into MTG, Zelblade is lurking but comes out swinging with a case against VE AND a case against NT (link). Also, as an aside, he seems utterly unafraid to lurk. He's apologetic about it, but he goes long periods of times, sometimes days, posting like once or twice in a 24 hour span with meh posts. He's admittedly a low-post-count player, but he doesn't put a lot of effort into "appearing" town when he's town. He'll disappear 20 hours, make a one-line post (link), then disappear for another 20 hours without contributing. When he comes back, he comes back with a read and a vote (link). So how does Zelblade play here? Well, he starts off asking weird questions (link) and making a soft defense based on setup that was inherently reasonable (link). Typical Scum Zelblade. And as soon as the heat picks up on Pandain, he hops right on board. To really contextualize his Pandain vote, let's check out how he responds to claims. 2. Zelblade voted Pandain like he does in scum meta. As town he distrusts weird claims: (link), especially ones without check crumbs (link) to back them up, and immediately calls out Zealos for a bad claim. Sounds like that informed his Pandain reaction, but when we see HOW he went about it, it's a lot more like his scum play than his town play. His reactions to Pandain's claim and Pandain's play D1 match his D1 scum play in LI almost perfectly. He calls out Pandain for diverting the discussion WHILE hiding behind other player's arguments (link): On June 06 2012 22:21 zelblade wrote: Either way I would be perfectly fine with a Pandain lynch. The blueslip feels exteremely fake to me. Slipping like that is akin to making a major scumslip... and one is more likely than not going to be more careful about leaking their role no? As pointed out, the random vig claim as well as the random mason discussion managed to severly derail the thread which reeks of scum. A couple more points is that he tries to dump suspision on me through a vauge statement. JUST as he did in LI with his case and vote against Tunkeg AFTER ET made the initial case against Tunkeg (link) On April 09 2012 21:54 zelblade wrote: Giving my thoughts on the lynch candidates proposed so far. My preferred lynch for today would actually be Tunkeg. He first starts off the day with his "random lynch", as well as a spreadsheet detailing the "scores" of everyone, and by extension, how "good" they supposedly are. Although he claims that his aim with this was to generate discussion, the content of the generated discussion, in my opinion, does not help town at all. Looking at the next couple of pages after his post, one will notice that what this has mostly done is do an excellent job of distracting town, instead getting most players to comment on how wrong his list is and agure what exactly a W/L ratio is. I personally dont feel that his list has managed to do anything in terms of scumhuting, and has actually distracted us from doing so. //snip// As such, this is why I believe that Tunkeg is scum. He has managed to waste a boatload of town's time discussing the vitrues of his so-called random lynch and why Jackal is bad, and his sput defense just doesnt click well with me. This is how Zelblade operates as scum: he finds a townie who's already been pushed, usually for saying something irrelevant, but also talks about the D1 candidate "wasting town's time" or "diverting discussion" in addition to reciting main components of the case the others have. Contrast his town play in MTG when he votes to lynch MJ (link), in which he shoots down other cases and notably does not need to justify his case with talk about sidetracking the town, even though MJ WAS full of weird statements about consolidating evidence, jumping to conclusions, and odd vote justifications and non-justifications. He voted who he wanted lynched without fear and without worrying about repercussions. On May 23 2012 00:00 zelblade wrote: Apparently I screwed up that quote tag -_- Eh I just realised its pluarity lynch lol. I am considering if I should dump my vote on zealos and see if it gains any traction or onto one of the three leading candidates. Kind of a hard decision since I wouldnt mind all of them dying. Mattchew is still being a pain in the ass, though his posts are starting to get understandable, and he actually has more content than say, mouldy jeb. Probably not the best lynch today, think hes town. I still think nova is scummy. But mouldy more so. Agree with marv's case generally. ##vote: Mouldy Jeb Also I am going to sleep soon (school) so I probably cant change my vote (deadline sucks for me as usual -_-). He talks about other players being scummy, but says this target is the most scummy. He does not waffle and waver. He doesn't justify his vote or ameliorate the hard edges his case with lip-flapping. His D1 vote on Pandain looks JUST LIKE his D1 LI vote, and nothing like his voting and case-making when he's scum. This is Zelblade trying to deflect attention and make up easy reasons to vote easy targets, just like when he was scum in LI. Section 3: Zelblades Reaction to Hyaach v BH is scummy regardless of Meta Zalblade's D2 vote on me (link) and his D1 vote on Pandain, coupled with the accompanying cases, look exactly like his scum voting, and nothing like his town voting. In fact, he spent so much time talking about how much he was "bugged" that scum would make my roleclaim and how Hyaach, who had to be town if I was scum, gave him "scummy vibes" that I thought he was voting to lynch Hyaach, not me. On June 10 2012 02:28 zelblade wrote: + Show Spoiler + Well since no roleblocker is claiming and i cannot be around during the deadline I will be making my decision now. At the start of the day I believed that bh wasnt lying. Well until ghost brought up the meta changes that is. I can understand him wanting to change his playstyle.... But i think that he would have said something like "I'm going to try to be less agressive" pretend if that was the case no? A minor point of course. I am unsure about his reaction regarding pandain's claim. I definitely think him playing it off was possible, but I found this post wierd. On June 06 2012 11:18 Blazinghand wrote: dude you are aware there are like RBs and shit in this game Note the this is an instant reaction. Let's say someone claims a role that you have and it is exteremly unlikely there are two of the same role. Wouldt you stop for a little while and give it some thought about how you are going to react to what is very possibly a fakeclaim? I don't see why he would post this. By the way, this is before where bh claims he realized he slipped so.... It's not a cover up. What is really bugging me is this - why in the world would a scum bh claim vig? It makes no sense. He didn't know he was getting roleblocked, and doing so would force a 1-1 trade with hyaach at best. Onto hyaach, he has given me scum vibes at the start of the game. Not going to elaborate but his general posting and luckiness made me feel off about him. Claiming rb as scum makes sense, I already explained why somewhere in my filter, so this is a null tell. His jailkeeper claim is sketchy too. Exteremly convenient. The lack of a town rb claiming (not exsisting or simply not willing to claim?) weakens it quite a bit. I can see ehat he means when he says that he shot down every jk scinerio though. It's definitely possible that was faked. However, I'm actually inclined to believe this claim since my gut says so. His recent posting seem to have a fearless aura which makes me feel that he's town. I'm going to just go with bh I guess. ##unvote ##vote: blazinghand Look a tthis post and this vote. This isn't what a town player would do. If you were unsure, you would cast a vote for BH and say "yeah he looks scummier" and yeah, if you're gonna be afk for the rest of the day, you lay out your thoughts. But read this post and ask yourself-- is this how a town player writes a case, or how a scum player tries to duck responsibility and come out looking townie at the same time? In fact, this is not how Zelblade ends any of his vote posts as town-- he never feels the need to justify himself or fill himself full of doubts like this. He probably anticipated me not flipping Mafia and didn't want to look too bad on the wagon. Typical scum play. This doesn't look at all like MtG Zelblade. This looks like LI Zelblade. This looks like scum. Let's vote him, and not waste a lynch on the SK who wants to help town. ##vote: Zelblade | ||
Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
On June 12 2012 10:02 ghost_403 wrote: I've got an idea. We lynch Zelblade today. Then get BH to shoot himself tonight. Yeah, that'll work. This is a good plan. Man, read my post above my zelblade case. The only way for me, a claimed SK, to win, gives town a higher chance to win than (IMO) 3 consecutive days of LYLO. | ||
Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
On June 12 2012 10:03 ghost_403 wrote: WAIT! BH is bulletproof. New plan. Let's lynch BH, then zelblade. I have an extra night life, a single one, and scum shot me N1, so they could easily shoot me tonight and kill me. I don't see how that's relevant though. | ||
Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
On June 12 2012 10:03 MrZentor wrote: I have a better idea, we kill BH. Really? You want 3 days of LYLO rather than a real chance at winning? | ||
Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
On June 12 2012 10:05 ghost_403 wrote: In order for not lynching you to be good, we would need to lynch scum today and have you shoot scum tonight. You've only given us one scum. Not lynching you still isn't a good trade for town. READ MY FIRST POST. Even if we lynch scum today and I shoot town tonight (and I might accidentally shoot scum!), town has a higher win rate. | ||
Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
My post detailing how the only way for a claimed SK to win increases the town winrate: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=341663¤tpage=40#792 My post showing that Zelblade is playing A) like scum and B) like Zelblade scum: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=341663¤tpage=40#793 | ||
Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
On June 12 2012 10:07 ghost_403 wrote: Yeah, no. If we lynch BH, we lynch someone that admitted to being anti-town. If we lynch zelblade, we lynch someone who we think is anti-town. I have no idea why any townie would chose the first option over the second. BECAUSE IT HELPS YOU. Because after you lynch me, tomorrow, you're gonna be at 5-3, and will have to survive 3 days of LYLO. You know your odds are slim. Take a look at my plan! It makes the town odds better. It makes mafia odds WAY WORSE. Yes, it admittedly gives me a chance to win-- that's why it's my plan-- but I'm only pitching it because it holds up to scrutiny. READ IT. Scum don't like my plan cause it makes it very hard for them to win. They may even have to waste another bullet on me! | ||
Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
On June 12 2012 10:14 MrZentor wrote: This is all assuming you ARE sk. Which you aren't. But I am! Do you really think that scum could pull off an N1 NK? What was my plan for the N1 NK when there was only going to be one kill? Here's an infographic for those of you who don't get the ramifications of my plan: | ||
Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
On June 12 2012 10:17 ghost_403 wrote: Something I'm still waiting for an answer on. You forget, the only thing that we have to prove that you actually are the SK is your claim. There has only been one night kill the entire game so far, so we can't even be certain that there is even an SK in the game. So your story is "oh, BH isn't the SK. He was scum trying to fakeclaim as vigi, and he'd totally have some way to justify the single NK N1 as a vigi" cause that's a bad story. Look, that aside, check out my zelblade case. Good case, yes? | ||
Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
Really? No other comments? Like, ok, at the VERY LEAST, let's assume I'm an SK trying to help town lynch scum, and let's try to talk about Zelblade. As a town player, you must assume I'm trying to lynch scum today (since if we lynch town I MUST hit scum overnight or lose). That way, after I flip SK, you at least have some discussion on something other than "BH is SK" I suggest this for two reasons. 1) it might get people to take me seriously and 2) IF YOU'RE TOWN, COME ON, ACT IN YOUR INTERESTS. | ||
Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
"Wow blazinghand is either really desperate SK, or maybe a really desperate scum who was really really stupid N1. I may want to lynch him just cause he's the SK and may be Mafia, but I'm gonna read his case on Zelblade anyways cause it might be reasonable, and we need something to discuss anyways." Here's what scum is thinking now: "BH is a threat, and I want to make sure there's no discussion D3 that could endangerous our impending victory. Better NOT discuss anything important here, just talk randomly about BH. Discussion bad. sheeping good." | ||
Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
On June 12 2012 10:31 ghost_403 wrote: Here's what I'm thinking right now: "Wow, blazinghand is really scummy, self admittedly antitown, and has made a quarter of the posts in the entire thread." Stop spamming. If you think there's any chance I'm an SK, you will take a look at the case I wrote about zelblade and you will respond. If you're town and not scum, you're not afraid of WRITING OUT YOUR OPINION BEFORE I FLIP. You know this to be true. Quit dodging. Help town. Discuss. | ||
Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
What makes sense as town? Accusing me of spam and ignoring the case I've made entirely, shutting down discussion? Or reading and responding to my post talking about my motivations (link) and my case against zelblade (link)? Keep track of who does what for when I flip. | ||
Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
On June 12 2012 10:52 Navillus wrote: BH as I understand your argument a fairly large part of it relies on you missing town WHEN YOU'RE SHOOTING FOR TOWN. I'm sorry but you don't suck that much, this is convincing and all but you had to admit that at many of these points you are trying to screw town and we basically need you to screw up to not lose, as I said earlier I am not relying on you not screwing us intentionally or by accident. Ok, that's a fair point. But let's say I do everything perfectly and hit town! There's still the chance mafia will shoot me, thinking they'll fare better in 3-1 than in 2-1-1. Then, even if we get to 2-1-1, all we have to do is lynch a townie and town gets a 50% winrate due to kingmaker scenario! It's no problem. | ||
Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
On June 12 2012 10:52 Navillus wrote: BH as I understand your argument a fairly large part of it relies on you missing town WHEN YOU'RE SHOOTING FOR TOWN. I'm sorry but you don't suck that much, this is convincing and all but you had to admit that at many of these points you are trying to screw town and we basically need you to screw up to not lose, as I said earlier I am not relying on you not screwing us intentionally or by accident. And believe me, if Town had a good chance of winning at this point I'd be screwing you guys and not scum. I'd LOVE to screw you guys, but you don't have much win% for me to TAKE from you at this point. I *have* to screw scum. | ||
Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
##vote zelblade | ||
Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
If you're town, and you think there's a 50% chance I'm actually Mafia and don't want to unvote me, that's ok. But at least TALK about zelblade. He's playing EXACTLY like his scum meta this game and I've laid it out so easily even It's like I have to force you guys to act like townies. | ||
Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
I'll provide a link to it (link to the sexy zelblade case) to make everyone's life easier. | ||
Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
On June 13 2012 03:07 ghost_403 wrote: I have every intention of discussing a Zelblade lynch, just not with you. Regardless of your claims, you are fundamentally anti-town, and any discussion involving you will be tainted by your alignment. You are a problem that we as a town have to deal with before we can start discussing other lynch candidates. See, that's funny. That's very funny. Cause I didn't say you had to unvote me. I also think you know as well as I do that if I *am* the SK, I need to lynch scum today. Discuss the zelblade case, now, before I flip, and when I flip SK it'll be clear my zelblade case is honest. In fact, Don't even discuss it with me-- discuss it with fuckin Shraft. HE'S RIGHT THERE AND HE VOTED ZELBLADE. On June 12 2012 21:20 ghost_403 wrote: @Shraft: Give me a good reason to lynch zelblade. Is not a good response. Imaginary poster wrote: I think zelblade is town because of X, Y, and Z. Blazinghand's analysis is flawed Here, here, and here. You didn't add to it, so I have debunked this lynch This has generated a lively town discussion! Is a great response! | ||
Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
On June 13 2012 03:11 ghost_403 wrote: Shraft is the one who doesn't want to discuss it, unless I missed his post between here and the top of the page. Ok, that's a fair point. I guess I just don't consider you interacting with shraft and completely ignoring the merits of the case (which can be judged objectively-- just read it and see if it makes sense, and comment on it) to be good enough. | ||
Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
He contradicts himself on FK's innocence following a "scumslip": link1, link2 On June 06 2012 22:49 zelblade wrote: I took his word for it and didnt check the OP -_- I dont think that him claiming that there was 4 scum is scummy since its a somewhat plausible assumption and may be the norm where he plays, but him lying about it being in the op is just... On June 06 2012 22:52 zelblade wrote: I am actually willing to lynch furekip based on that alone. As said, there is no townie reasoning possible to lie about something like that. Sure scumslips are usually made by townies but I dont think that they would lie about their reasoning like this. The only problem with this is that it is so dumb as mafia too -_- So furekip why did you lie about it? This (link) strikes me as kinda a dumb question that implies "oh, I don't know if RB stops mafia NK, since I am a town player who didn't know what took place last night" by asking it. Subtle attempt at towncred. On June 08 2012 08:46 zelblade wrote: Does rb stop mafia's night kill? There's also some weirdness regarding his transition from thinking I'm innocent to thinking I'm guilty D2. I think Zelblade wanted to appear to be gradually convinced, but he kinda fucked it up. Check it out. June 09 00:03 KST (link) On June 09 2012 00:03 zelblade wrote: Main reason I trusted BH's claim was that I didnt think that he would do it as scum. //snip// He could have pulled the SK card after mislynching hyaach in this case, but it was very unlikely that it would have worked considering how he didnt exactly look stellar either. Scum probably isnt willing to pull off this sort of trade d2. (I THINK) There are a lot of things regarding BH that seem off to me though, will explain more on that tomorrow. So, this looks like a somewhat undecided zelblade. Things "seem off" to him-- zelblade wants to setup his change of heart. Now, 10 hours later: (link) we see hm asking me about my meta (an issue that has been the case since early D1, but had somewhat subsided by D2). Clearly, my meta is on his mind, and, as he mentions in his vote post (link), the same scummy vote post I mentioned earlier, he's voting me because of these meta issues that Ghost brought to the forefront. Now, this is really weird. Because Ghost didn't bring up the meta issues until June 09 08:00 KST. Other than the meta issues, Zelblade doesn't mention the reasons he had 8 hours prior to ghosts post, whne he said On June 09 2012 00:03 zelblade wrote: There are a lot of things regarding BH that seem off to me though, will explain more on that tomorrow. This is super scummy. He actually didn't have any reasons, he wanted for another player to put some forwards, then hid in the shadow of those reasons, and made an unbelievably scummy vote post that hedged either way. Why that vote post? He's Mafia. He knew during D2, after his team shot me and failed, that I was either the JKed or I was an SK. After my vigi claim and Hyaach's JK claim, he knew for sure that I was the SK, since Hyaach JKed VE. He had to write a post that he could backtrack after either of us flipped. He wrote this way because he knew exactly who was who after the roleclaims. He hid in the shadow of Ghost. | ||
Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
On June 13 2012 05:23 Katina wrote: There's a little less than two hours before the end of the day. When we see what Blazinghanf flips (either SK or Mafia) then we can go from there and decide who to lynch tomorrow. I will go and read over some filters today and start discussing when night comes. I also recommend ignoring anything that Blazinghand says. He's clearly anti town and anything he says is meant to confuse us and throw us on the wrong track. Right, but if I'm SK, I *need* to lynch mafia today. You have to admit that. So you should discuss the zelblade lynch for tomorrow, NOW, before I flip, then when I flip it'll be very telling who was willing to promote discussion and who wasn't, for the past 24 hours that my case has been up. | ||
Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
On June 13 2012 05:27 Palmar wrote: who cares, I don't think bh is the SK. An outed SK has no chance of winning the game, so claiming one is dumb as shit, and borderline playing against your win condition and thus cheating. However it's great to claim SK to try and survive for another night if you're scum, since you don't lose outright if you die, as your team is still there. And yes BH, that's why I'm completely ignoring your case on zelblade. It's basically pointless discussion right now. It won't even tell us much about him once you flip. A claimed SK *does* have a way to win, and it increases the town chance to win. Did you even read my post? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=341663¤tpage=40#792 | ||
Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
On June 13 2012 00:45 Shraft wrote: Weren't you they guy who said that wanting to kill third party roles was a scum tell in BC's Arkham Asylum? Any response to this post, Palmar? | ||
Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
That's fine. I get it. What I don't get at all is people who are like: "Ok, Blazinghand is the SK, I believe his claim, but even though it REDUCES TOWN'S CHANCE TO WIN, I want to lynch him anyways. Come on guys! he's claimed anti-town!" ._. As a claimed SK, there's literally only one way for me to win this game. I've laid it out for you (link). If you really think I'm playing against my wincon my claiming, you need to read that post and realize that my plan helps both me and you. It's better than the 3x LYLO you're gonna have to deal with after today. You don't have a chance without me, town, and scum knows it. Scum knows it and wants me dead. Check out the case against Zelblade (part 1) and (part 2). Check out what you think town's chances are at LYLO with the most skilled player left, Palmar, playing like this. Do you have 3 solid scumreads? Do you think you'll get any? Do you really think you can stop this scumteam without my help? You need me. Don't lynch your last real chance to win this game, town. | ||
Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
On June 13 2012 05:38 Snarfs wrote: Hmm, I don't see what you do here. To me, when he says that he's "not going to be the stupid townie that thought we could control or contain him", it seems like he's not willing to put town's interests in the hands of a known anti-town player. In blazinghand's plan, if we assume that he is SK, we would need to rely a lot on his ability to hit his targets correctly. I'd much rather take the game into my own hands than leave it in the hands of someone who doesn't even share a wincon with us. Actually, the plan only relies on my ability to shoot scum *IF* we mislynch. My shots are a backup plan in the case of mislynches. Overnight, I'm actually shooting at townies to try to keep us at LYLO, if you check out the plan. In fact, if I fuck up and shoot scum, that gives town a HUGE edge. | ||
Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
3 more ! <3333 anyone out there? | ||
Blazinghand
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Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
I can't really blame you-- you chose the safer route. Or maybe you were a nonbeliever. Kudos to those who called me out for my scum meta. Pandain, Hyaach, you both could have possible lived in our head-to-heads, but sometimes the cookie crumbles the wrong way. VE, scum and I probably shot you for the same reason, which is that you're too smart to let live. I wish we had done this together, town. We were almost there. + Show Spoiler + </3 GL wouldn't be appropriate-- but HF, everyone. | ||
Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
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Blazinghand
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Blazinghand
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Blazinghand
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Blazinghand
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On June 20 2012 07:05 HiroPro wrote: Zelblade - Nice catch on furerkip's statements. It's a pity that he got replaced. You had some good reads early on; you needed to be a lot more active and push them though. It doesn't matter if you have the right ideas if you're not actually doing anything to make other people agree with you or establishing your own innocence. BE MORE ACTIVE. After you came back, it wasn't good. But honestly that was to be expected after missing so much and having everyone come after you. As a thought, Zelblade, part of the reason I attacked you was that I thought you were a bit scummy, but the other reason is that I felt like you weren't active enough to defend yourself, and hadn't established yourself as town, so I might be able to lynch you. | ||
Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
On June 21 2012 11:49 Foolishness wrote: So when everyone called for the town roleblocker to claim, Katina's reaction through the whole thing was essentially, "lol cool story bro!" The most plausible explanation was that blazinghand was mafia and she blocked the mafia hit. She had absolutely zero reason to claim to the town, especially after Hyaach died. Just to clarify, at the time I was calling for the town RB to claim, I was saying to do so only if the town RB had RBed Hyaach (meaning that mafia RBed me), since that would exonerate me. I was very, very sure that scum had stacked their RB on me, their NK, to hide it. It turns out they RBed Hyaach and shot me, and I was also RBed by the town RB, but this seemed pretty unlikely to me. Given that Katina had RBed me, she obviously should not have claimed-- but I never called for the RBer who RBed me to claim. On June 21 2012 11:49 Foolishness wrote: And that should her explain her actions and why she was so "blazinghand for sure mafia" in all of her posts. I don't know if the mafia realized she was the roleblocker or not or why they killed her. But I thought the whole situation was very very interesting, and I think there's some good ideas and lessons to be learned from it. Yeah this was definitely good play. I think she did a good job of staying alive and making sure I got lynched. | ||
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