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Palmar
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As an alternative, sinani is trolling and taking part in dumb discussion so I'd be fine with killing him. | ||
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Q-bert-Z is sinani. He's roleplaying. | ||
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On July 16 2012 18:11 syllogism wrote: Really? That's the last person I would expect him to be, how do you figure? Anyway, you don't usually mind role playing (or trolling? which is it?) so do you just have a problem with sinani in particular doing that? Q-bert-Z logged on IRC a few days ago, I'm assuming it's the same person. I just compared the hostname to what I could find in my logs. Sadly he has an IP address from a verizon pool so it's not conclusive, but the other option seems to be Risen, which I find much less likely given the way QBZ has been posting so far. His posting very much matches how I'd expect sinani to behave under a new identity, I wouldn't have guessed it before, but once I read his post with the added knowledge that it might be sinani it really does fit. The jokes/roleplay are of questionable quality, certainly below any of my theatrics, it's mainly just playing off Chez's eternal trolling. | ||
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I am proposing a Random Lynch for day 1. We have an unusually high chance of hitting mafia this game. This is a randomized list of all the players in the game, it changes order every minute. Someone who isn't me can pick a time, if you want 100% security you can do it when I'm sleeping, then people screenshot the list at that time and we lynch the first guy on the list. | ||
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On July 16 2012 20:50 marvellosity wrote: What's the supposed benefit? Mafia manipulation of the lynch (by dint of their large numbers) would be at an absolute minimum due to the fact they don't know who each other are. And, more importantly, I've only been lynched once before and I don't plan the 2nd time to be a random lynch D: The chances of each individual being lynched are very low. The chance of lynching mafia is 33%, which is probably not much worse than lynching mafia based on analysis, especially given that mafia doesn't know who their teammates are so it's impossible to try to analyse any links or interactions. | ||
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There are other reasons why I want to RL. | ||
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It's ok, we can deal with that later. | ||
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On July 17 2012 02:21 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Palmar since you're here you and I are going to play a lighting round. Marvellosity Blazinghand Rastaban Supersoft Scum or town, go. No. | ||
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On July 17 2012 02:27 syllogism wrote: Do you honestly agree? Be very honest. Also, what is the nice catch you are referring to? Why do you not announce that you support my RL idea? | ||
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On July 17 2012 04:09 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: I'm going out, be back in a few hours. If Palmar shows his face hold his feet in the fire until he answers my post. + Show Spoiler + Also thanks god VE is here. Take care of this bro, I'm going out. | ||
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I guess it ties into why I thought RL was an excellent idea in this game. The difference between this game and any other game is that there is no inter-mafia communication. They cannot decide, or bounce ideas on how to react to the suggestion, so all it would've taken to really turn up the heat was for a few townies to roll with me on the idea. The main characteristic of a mafia player in this game is not going to be pushing an agenda or scheming, but much rather complete focus on surviving on their own. This is exactly what the random lynch plays out on, the fear of getting killed as a player. I initially had some concerns about marvel, but I never felt anything conclusive. And I just read through the part of the thread where he's attempting to use role pm formatting to confirm players. Even if we assume mafia got fake pms, it's still probably something he's more likely to do as town. So with nothing else on him, I don't think he's scum atm. More stuff coming up. | ||
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Now, asking people questions is generally good, but MZ has played with me enough times to understand that if I'm not going to answer something, I just don't. Nothing he can do can change that. If I'm intent on trolling, I will troll, and you can't do shit about it. He should be familiar with my personality now, so while someone like syllo just assumed I was trolling and ignored the issue, MZ kept harping on about getting me to respond. Why would he do this? Not only is it an excellent way to contribute without ever risking contributing anything, because he was never going to get an answer for me, it's also a good set up for a later attack on me. | ||
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Sloosh Sandroba Probulous HiroPro Foolishness VisceraEyes Bill Murray Gonzaw Meapak_Ziphh Supersoft austinmcc Wherebugsgo Katina syllogism GGQ Blazinghand Chezinu Kurumi rastaban Mattchew marvellosity risk.nuke Q-bert-Z RebirthofLegend Palmar Zealos Thank me later. | ||
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On July 17 2012 23:19 syllogism wrote: Palmar do you seriously think I'm mafia? yeah. | ||
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On July 17 2012 23:15 marvellosity wrote: Palmar why do you think BH is town? I share a lot of his initial reads and opinions. using his block against chezinu says nothing about his alignment as it's the only way he can respond, although I guess waiting for a mod to confirm the nuke would've been smarter. But I don't think BH is particularly smart, but he's loud and useful. | ||
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On July 17 2012 23:21 syllogism wrote: Well you are bad at mafia then Well prove you're not. I admit, there is not much to do other than lynch kurumi at the moment, and I also know that if I'm right you've been pushed into a very uncomfortable position due to sandroba's status atm. Any judgements you make will be reviewed by sandroba who is almost guaranteed to be town. But between lynching kurumi, and preferably killing MZ too, you have some time if you're town. What do you think of the rest of my list. I mean, I just mentioned that surviving and focusing on oneself would be a mafia characteristic this game, and you literally ignored what... 7-8? accusations I had to talk about yourself. | ||
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On July 17 2012 23:26 rastaban wrote: Don't you think though as town he would have blocked the one on RoL when he learned Kurumi was mafia? If sandroba's theory is right Kurumi has no clue who his fellow scum are, RoL might be one of them. The only reason I think RoL is town, is that I think kurumi is scum, and I think 2 nukes, mislynch + nk on day 2 putting town in a 14v9 situation is very, very harsh from a balance perspective. I don't mind rol dying. I wouldn't lift a finger to save him, so I can't fault BH for not doing it. | ||
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On July 17 2012 23:24 marvellosity wrote: Ok. Why are you voting Kurumi when he's getting nuked? a day 1 correct lynch is great. There is no reason to risk that being fucked with. I have no idea if mafia can bus/heal/block this shot from rol or not. I say we take what we have. If kurumi is mafia, which he most likely is, we're ahead, no matter what else happens. The lynch is our safety net, you can't fuck with the lynch. | ||
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I don't know... cause I don't think he is? He's not reacting in the same way as back when I figured him out in resistance. In that game his response to pressure was just to start calling people bad, and try to maintain the "I am blazinghand and I don't give a shit"-facade. I'm not seeing the same thing here. Maybe he's just using a completely different style, I mean, I haven't played in a while, but from my perspective this isn't the scum BH I know. | ||
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On July 18 2012 04:43 syllogism wrote: Hey Palmar if you are town, wouldn't you also be "reviewing" any judgements I make in this scenario of yours? By the way you still haven't told me why you think I'm mafia, which is quite suspicious given that you wouldn't push to lynch me lightly on day 1. I know you're smart enough to understand what I meant by that, sure, I will obviously be thinking about every read you make, but you can easily just accuse me if we don't agree. You can't do that with sandroba, at least not reasonably. I also have no intention of lynching you right now, I want to lynch Kurumi, MZ, maybe gonzaw. I can only kill one guy a day. I think you're scum because of the focus and content of your posts. Something just doesn't feel right. To be fair, since mafia don't know each other, I don't care much about you right now. We have more obvious scum to deal with and I'd really like to hear what you think about the reads I've put forth so far. | ||
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On July 18 2012 05:27 VisceraEyes wrote: Do you think Layabout is scum? If so, why aren't you voting him with me, your strongest town-read? Can we kill him? I think layabout is likely to flip scum. I think I put him as red in my list right? Are you not worried at all about the nukes not landing correctly? | ||
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On July 18 2012 05:36 HiroPro wrote: Palmar, do you still have a null read on austin? yes, but I haven't focused much on him. not gone through his filter or anything. | ||
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I don't agree with him, but in a game where I was expecting mafia to be awfully self-aware, his play seems straight up counterproductive. It's a very weird/dumb/ballsy thing to do as mafia. And no, BlazingHand is town. stop voting him. Can we kill MZ instead pls? | ||
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##Vote Meapak | ||
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On July 18 2012 06:12 Bill Murray wrote: yeah, since i've posted sooo much for you to get a read on if you're pushing a d1 policy lynch that's just ridiculous policy =/= alignment hehe, you're pro. I'd be fine with policy lynching you! | ||
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I like your thought process | ||
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I'm going to sleep about now-ish. I don't want to lynch BH, and I kinda don't want to lynch austin either. | ||
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I need to catch up about 10 pages, but whatever. Also I can't believe that you almost lynched Blazinghand, that's dumb as shit. | ||
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I guess I'm also reconsidering layabout. It'd be very low play from him to write that frustration post to get stuff off him as mafia, and I genuinely don't think he's an asshole. On July 18 2012 10:35 layabout wrote: Not game relevant: I think i am going to take a break from TL mafia. I had looked forward to this game for some time but now it's happening i can't bring myself to care. At some point during the last game something inside just snapped. There were a number of reasons for it and i was going to make a thread but then real life kicked in and i haven't had the time. Yesterday was my first day back to myself and i spent most of it away from my computer and most of my computer time on Blacklight: Retibution. In spite of this i hate nothing more than asshats that don't play or people that are exempt from trying/playing because "It's player soandso" so i will try. After i die i will bugger off. I began writing a long post but i am tired and it reads like dogpoo. Following sandro since the last time... well it worked out pretty well for town. ##vote gonzaw I am not sure how he can think that both foolishness and syllogism are scum. He seems to be looking at the thread from a very different viewpoint. gonzaw is still 100% scum. So is meapak, and I'm pretty sure by now foolishness is one too. | ||
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Also, do we really not have a vigilante? I still need to catch up since yesterday. I would've expected kurumi to be dead by now. | ||
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I like the idea of rastaban being scum. His latest post completely misunderstanding layabout's intentions with his frustration post only reinforces that idea. I don't think there's much to discuss about foolishness. It's so ridiculously clear he's scum. BlazingHand is almost definitely town. I have no idea how and why he almost got lynched on day one. I haven't found the time to take a thorough look at the wagon that formed on him to weed out the dumb from the scum. And most of the scum is in pretty plain sight anyway. Syllogism is scum this game. I usually find him pretty easy to read and he's completely delivering this game. The only thing that's somewhat questionable is if his raging about the setup and such is genuine. Problem for him is, he has to make dumb calls as scum, which is why he's doing stuff like this: On July 19 2012 07:08 syllogism wrote: Assuming? Sounds off for town palmar. The rest of this post too. You have been pretty distant for someone who should consider sandroba 100% confirmed town by now and me close to that (to you). This is funny because I already clarified (in a conversation with him) my thoughts on sandroba, see here: On July 17 2012 23:26 Palmar wrote: Well prove you're not. I admit, there is not much to do other than lynch kurumi at the moment, and I also know that if I'm right you've been pushed into a very uncomfortable position due to sandroba's status atm. Any judgements you make will be reviewed by sandroba who is almost guaranteed to be town. Sandro's basically confirmed town. I know that, and syllo knows that. For those who still don't get it, the meaning of the sentence I wrote, and syllo attacked was "Given that sandroba must be town ...." not "If sandroba happens to be town .... " But syllo probably knows this anyway, which is why he finds it reasonable to attack me in this way: On July 19 2012 08:21 syllogism wrote: Pretty sure palmar is mafia as well. Some of his posts are very reasonable and I even agree with the a lot of content, but his tone and attitude is off. He is also putting in as little effort as possible and basically ignoring me and sandroba despite even at one point calling sandroba confirmed town. Yes this is a very lazy "case" and he probably won't be a lynch candidate tomorrow. I'm ignoring you for the most part syllo. I don't think I'm ignoring sandroba. Although I did miss most of yesterday in the thread. Gonzaw is scum too. If anyone doubts it, I had the unpleasant experience of playing against him when he was town in a recent mafia game. I was mafia that game. His style was completely different in that game, focused and really scary. I'm not seeing any of the aggressiveness that was really annoying to deal with. Either I'm completely blinded by not being mafia, or he's posting in a different way this game. He's for the most part been a non-factor this game. Here's his town filter, for easy comparison: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=341558&user=237527 Compare that to this http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349678&user=237527 The language is different, the content is different. He's scum. Let's carry on BM is scum, just murder him. VE/Sandroba/Marvel/layabout/prob/Blazinghand etc are town, for various reasons. I need to run will write more. Not like we have much more to say for today. | ||
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I have a hard time believing even she could be this wrong. Also, I'm not included in that list. At the time I was active in the thread and there wasn't much interest in attacking me. I wonder if she forgot about me, or left me out due to popular opinion: On July 18 2012 09:26 Katina wrote: bugs, you should really know better than to try to switch the vote train off of two people who were discussed at in length. You have caused a shitstorm now, and the votes aren't any better than they were 24 hours ago. The people voting for austin at this point: supersoft wherebugsgo Bill Murray sandroba syllogism risk.nuke gonzaw Looks like a pretty good mafia list. I wouldn't mind 4 or 5 of you dying. Looks like she remembered me later though, and funny enough, she remembered me at a time where I was not active in the thread at all, however, due to syllo's accusations, a few people had entertained the idea of me being scum. perfect opportunity to slide me back into her suspicion list. On July 19 2012 12:20 Katina wrote: It doesn't matter if your vote was stolen, just vote. Why would we give up an easy kill? It will narrow down the scum count, that's what we need to win as town. If Kurumi doesn't die people are just going to derp around and be unfocused because he IS still alive. With him dead that's one less distraction and we can focus on the other scum such as: Mattchew Foolishness Palmar Blazinghand Syllogism Bill Murrary At least she fixed sandroba out this time. Popular opinion important right? | ||
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On July 20 2012 00:23 HiroPro wrote: Palmar, you don't think gonzaw's behavior can be explained by him simply having not enough time? What he's done this game is pretty different from what I would expect as his scum play - you were in Liar Game. He was a fairly dominant person in that game also even as scum. I was in liar game too. He only became dominant near the end of the game. He was pretty much a non-factor early on. Did you compare the filters linked? | ||
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On July 20 2012 00:24 syllogism wrote: Haha Palmar nice try, lets ask what sandroba thinks about that post of yours I was referring. He thinks you are mafia as well, but you are of course ignoring him because discrediting him isn't actually possible okay, let's see what he thinks. | ||
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I'm always an aggressive asshole. If I don't have time, I'm still an aggressive asshole, I just post less. Why are you so intent on defending him anyway? | ||
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All you've focused on so far is the amount of his posts, not the content. | ||
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On July 20 2012 00:30 syllogism wrote: Palmar while you are here, explain, in your own words. Why you think BM is mafia compare this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349678&user=54241 to this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=329128&user=54241 and this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=305850&user=54241 Sure, you can in theory make the argument he got excited with his powerrole in BC's game and that's why he was so much more engaged than in the two games he's scum (including this one). But I don't think I have to spoonfeed you the difference in emphasis and posting style... right? | ||
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I'm out for now. | ||
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On July 20 2012 20:05 Kurumi wrote: By the way I'd rather you see me as town in your plans of people being linked, so you know where to go from there when I flip >_> Sandroba isn't scum... But presence of two messengers (I think?) makes me uneasy. Sandroba, I am going to ask you that question again. How did you know that Sandroba? The CEO/Chairman/President can't have abilities, even I read that much of the OP | ||
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Knowing scum has to eliminate every single town, and town has to eliminate every single scum, you can make the argument that kurumi was extremely smart and understood that at some point in the game it might be beneficial if scum thinks you're scum, might even save an otherwise lost game. However, that's stretching it alot, and assuming Kurumi knew about this rule before someone posted it, (I didn't) and was capable of recognizing the possible strength of such a position. Obviously sandroba being town fucked completely with whatever plan he might've had if he was town. However, the simple solution is kurumi fell for a trap and is scum. Which is why we hang him. The simple solution is usually right. | ||
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No it doesn't. Do you think this increases the chances of rastaban being mafia? | ||
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Did I mention katina is scum? How about you look into her? | ||
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On July 20 2012 20:30 Palmar wrote: @Bill Murray, your stance on the Kurumi/Sandroba thing is insane. Knowing scum has to eliminate every single town, and town has to eliminate every single scum, you can make the argument that kurumi was extremely smart and understood that at some point in the game it might be beneficial if scum thinks you're scum, might even save an otherwise lost game. However, that's stretching it alot, and assuming Kurumi knew about this rule before someone posted it, (I didn't) and was capable of recognizing the possible strength of such a position. Obviously sandroba being town fucked completely with whatever plan he might've had if he was town. However, the simple solution is kurumi fell for a trap and is scum. Which is why we hang him. The simple solution is usually right. You see, I forgot the option where kurumi is a dumbass and just does whatever the fuck he wants. | ||
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I'll be around later | ||
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On July 22 2012 00:54 supersoft wrote: palmar, respond on the issue i raised about your activitylvl. We are going to reach a point of time in the game where i need some informations. I never ever explain why or why I don't post in games. I think it's cheating as scum to say "I was doing x or afk" and by extension I can't do it as town either. I play exactly as much as I can and want to. I've been hanged for refusing to explain my inactivity, both as town and as scum (see L as an example of me being killed as town when I was simply afk, and a recent igrok's old fashioned mafia game where the same thing happened but I was scum.) Despite people attempting to read me based on activity, see for example foolishness's inane statement on my activity to my alignment. It's plain wrong. So no, I'm not going to respond if I wrote that post "fuck I need to write something" or if it just happened to be a window where I had 2-3 hours to play the game. It's your job to figure that out. | ||
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On July 22 2012 02:26 Katina wrote: Why do you think I should be shot? You have yet to give any reasons to why you think I'm Mafia. You have done close to nothing this game besides popping in every now and then, and giving a brief hit and run then off again. You know who is known for hit and runs? Mafia, have you not seen the old Mafia movies??. Your uselessness this game has astounded me. The same goes for Mattchew as well. Lack of contribution or care for find Mafia, close to no reads with almost no explanation or reasoning. No, you're just not reading the thread. On July 20 2012 00:20 Palmar wrote: I'm also reconsidering my stance on Katina being scum. I assumed she must be town because of how confrontational she was with me and foolishness. But for some reason she seemed to think Bugs was scum at one point (other most likely wrong reads in that list include supersoft and of course sandroba wtf.) I have a hard time believing even she could be this wrong. Also, I'm not included in that list. At the time I was active in the thread and there wasn't much interest in attacking me. I wonder if she forgot about me, or left me out due to popular opinion: Looks like she remembered me later though, and funny enough, she remembered me at a time where I was not active in the thread at all, however, due to syllo's accusations, a few people had entertained the idea of me being scum. perfect opportunity to slide me back into her suspicion list. At least she fixed sandroba out this time. Popular opinion important right? | ||
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On July 22 2012 03:32 supersoft wrote: ah very well. Palmar do youi have any powers? Even if I thought revealing my role was beneficial, why would I do it during the night? | ||
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@supersoft, are you threatening to shoot me? | ||
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I'm the Eager Intern, which means that I'm now bugs's role. I can obviously pardon someone to prove it, but that would be kinda counterproductive. I can pick up the role of a dead guy, and permanently become that role. | ||
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because of this: On July 20 2012 07:34 sandroba wrote: Man this is fun. I messaged Zealos yesterday before the day post. He never revealed he got pm. I just got confirmation that the pm was sent and Zealos has posted twice since then. So yeah fun times. and this On July 21 2012 03:36 sandroba wrote: My PM to zealos actually started like this: No rest for the wicked. Don't trust any message that doesn't start with this phrase. Which he omitted when he claimed the message. I thought it was a pretty obvious mafia message. Which basically means he's guaranteed to be scum. | ||
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On July 23 2012 21:38 risk.nuke wrote: Q: Palmar can you pardon yourself? I have no idea and no will to find out. If I would pardon myself I'd only be giving the mafia one extra cycle of night kills, as you guys would lynch me anyway. When I flip, go kill syllo. | ||
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On July 23 2012 23:16 supersoft wrote: the thought that Palmar picks up a pardoner-power when he's town is just ridiculous At the time I thought BH was town, and I thought he'd get lynched. I actually meant to pardon him, which is pretty terrible. Sorry for the shitty play. | ||
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Just let me flip. Then let the guys decide. | ||
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All the mafia was really obvious to be honest, BlazingHand was so obvious I decided to try to defend him because he's valuable as a disrupting presence in town. Foolishness never stood a chance and suffered from the same problem as me. layabout and MZ were really easy to find out. I thought Kurumi and GGQ were scum though, and I didn't think Q-bert and sloosh were scum. Gonzaw was quite obvious too. Everyone who's familiar with my mafia play knows I just autobus my team all the time, I did that this game except for a few reads. It takes too long to remove competent town players in this setup. How on earth am someone like me or foolishness going to keep up a charade of being town for 3 days? and that's best case scenario, the worst case scenario is that the best townplayer in the game is virtually unkillable. The whole idea of mafia is to kill people in the order they're likely to figure out what's going on. With fewer scum players, and more night killing power the setup might be great, but there is just no way we can expect we can bullshit for such a long time. Anyway, sorry to my team, this was like the 5th mafia game in a row for me and I just didn't have the drive to do it properly. | ||
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I'm never going to be the guy who secures the win in the end for my scumteam, If it's day three and I haven't killed scum yet I need to be hanged. But the goal for people like that is to cause disruption and make the thread confusing, so that when you inevitably die you'll have taken every good town player with you through night kills, and the rest of town is left with nothing but a complete mess to analyse, giving your less talked about buddies the chance to succeed. This is exactly how I approach mafia games, some of the best examples of this can be seen in my play in Personality, Liar and some mafia game. In all of them I've made ballsy claims or grand plans in order to force the thread to be bad. This could've worked, if I could have taken out bugs and sandro n1, syllo and katina n2. Of course I still die on day 3, but the heads are gone and my team gets the freedom they need to operate, hell day 2 would've gone better if sandro was gone and I could in full force start arguing with syllo to maybe help foolishness a bit. Maybe the setup is at no fault and it's expected that it can be very hard to kill intelligent townies, but I really have no clue how to do that for so long. The problem with intelligent townies is that they need to be right, and you need to be wrong. Non-top town players aren't terrible, they're just less adept at coming up with solutions, that doesn't mean they're incapable of recognizing a correct solution when it's presented to them by a top town player. Which is why killing town heads is so important. One amazing town player, can make 10 decent townies good. Almost everyone in this game is at least decent or good, so all it takes is someone to lead them, then they WILL recognize what is correct and what is not, and steamroll the mafia. | ||
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