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That's awesome news then.
I'm struggling because of the timing of his posts... And I'm not able to check them now... I'm concerned that people are using the "hindsight is 20/20" logic. Such as- well now that we know Matt is scum... Anyone who associated with him scum. So I guess looking at the time will be important.... That being said- I want to see how much
Back to training ill clarify later.
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Ok, this probably will be my last post of the day, but I'm finally home and could read through BKE's filter properly. To be honest, I went into looking at BKE from a "Everyone is ganging up on him, and I don't think its deserved" perspective.
I don't think anyone said this, but this is the evidence that I'm considering as the most damning...
On September 04 2012 09:21 BroodKingEXE wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 09:16 Hapahauli wrote:On September 04 2012 09:12 Mattchew wrote: I am a nosy neighbor. Anyone else with this role should insta-claim as well. Hold up. Why would we want people with information roles to claim? Its basically a miller role that the town knows about why not?
On September 04 2012 12:13 BroodKingEXE wrote: Actually, Mattchew why should they claim now? Can't they just wait till its pointed out?
Well okay, I know THIS has been brought up... but I just want to reiterate that this 'soft defending' makes me suspicious... not 100% scum.. just suspicious.
On September 04 2012 09:52 BroodKingEXE wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 09:36 Toadesstern wrote:--snipped-- On September 04 2012 09:35 BroodKingEXE wrote: @Toad Im still confused about the vote on slOosh. You didn't agree with him for starting a useless discussion and that's grounds for keeping your vote on him? There never was a vote on him to begin with lol An honorary vote, and even so you never got anything out of it despite the six or so posts metioning him. Seemed more like some sort of a push, against slo0sh, than a minor disagreement.
This is just the last post on his slight attack on Toad. Which is significant to me beecaaauusse:
On September 06 2012 04:41 BroodKingEXE wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 03:57 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 06 2012 03:49 Z-BosoN wrote: @goodkarma Just because he is up on my suspicion bar does not mean that he is scum. He could very well be a bad townie. If he is, the only motivation he has for defending matt and attacking toad is that he actually thinks that toad is more suspicious than matt, and if so, he's doing a shitty job at explaining himself. Also, him being obnoxious doesn't contribute to his defense. At least I am not that retarded to attack someone on the ground of their first post that was clearly a joke. I already explained my motivation two post ago. If you need some help understanding it you can ask for it nicely You dont joke about scum reads. You're scum, because you are trying to derail a lynch and not trying to bring up another canidate. Real townie would create a case and present a new option, but scum dont want to give away to much and wont do that. They'll try to plug an easy lurker after a derail.
I really see this as putting the responsibility on someone else to make claims and to avoid doing it himself.... He just lights touched on a couple people, but clearly expected town to start lynching themselves.
So yea, I'm good with this lynch....AND the one thing I'm concerned about is that we are tunneling. And that concerns me.... still worried about the lurkers!!
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Well- with BKE's flip, I think we need to look at people who weren't involved in any discussion and voted anyways, or people who are lurking.... Lurking seems to be really popular in this game?
I'm thinking that we need to start putting pressure on the lurkers to try to stir something up there. I will start to look through some filters to get a better idea of who these people would be, but I figure that may be a good start.
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On September 09 2012 12:54 Shady Sands wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 12:43 Maverick32x wrote: Well- with BKE's flip, I think we need to look at people who weren't involved in any discussion and voted anyways, or people who are lurking.... Lurking seems to be really popular in this game?
I'm thinking that we need to start putting pressure on the lurkers to try to stir something up there. I will start to look through some filters to get a better idea of who these people would be, but I figure that may be a good start. Why not look at the people who led the charge on the BKE lynch?
Because I don't think mafia would put themselves out there THAT much for someone who was town. Especially considering the amount of lurkers that exist.
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Ok, I just want to start off by saying I suspect Forumite is mafia and I will be voting for him.
That being said- the amount of bandwagoning that just occurred for him to be our prime suspect is disturbing. If Forumite is NOT mafia, we NEED to focus on the people who are not contributing to a case- and start putting some pressure on them because they are just allowing us to kill each other and are just going to sit back the entire time.
Sl00sh's weak "that doesn't show he cares" case is such a knee-jerk reaction to a single post. Hopeless1der: Bandwagons- despite forumite asserting that he suppported someone that hopeless was suspecting (Z-boson). Rewok- gimme a break. Imallinson- your weak vote is pretty damning.
etc. etc..
Not sure if lazy town or scum.
Refer to my post for Forumite reasoning.
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Actually, no, I'm not going to vote for forumite.
I'm voting for Z-Boson.
ya-ya-ya- waffle/flip flopper whatever.. thats my vote.
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holy.
shit.
You just totally exploded.
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1) I'm voting Z-Boson... 2)- I made a whole post on forumite.... 3)- Yup.
I think my post did rustle up some friction....
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One of the main things that made me think you were scum Z-Boson is that I tried to remember what posts you had made.. and literally none came to mind, I couldn't even remember you contributing to any discussion. However- when I look at your filter- you have 6 pages.
How is it possible that someone could have SIX pages of posts and for me not to remember a single one of them I thought?
So I decided to flip through them.
I just find a trend of you just flailing around wildly at anything and it just appears to me as if you're just trying to throw a vote on ANYONE. Sure you've tunneled me a lot through out the game, and that's cool- but why is it that none of those seem to stick? Why is it that no one seems to back you up? You even had to refresh your old 'case' on me, because as you mentioned, no one seemed to respond to it when you posted it.
Why would that be? Scum buddies afraid to back you up? Weak case? You tell me.
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Okay. Hold the god dam phone and ShiaoPi tell me when you voted for Z-Boson... .Wtf is going on.. God this game is frustrating....
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oh god I wish I could edit.. -_-.. nevermind. I'm going to bed.
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On September 07 2012 09:40 Maverick32x wrote:Dang, you guys know my play style better than I do!! Okay, I'm flipping through filters and I don't want to OMGUS , but come on Forumite..... your scumminess is showing... Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 21:19 Forumite wrote:On September 05 2012 12:43 Z-BosoN wrote: Allright, Mattchew is set to be lynched. What can we conclude if he flips scum or town? In the unlikely event that he will flip town, will we have enough evidence to go for a BC lynch?
My take is, if he flips town, BC's suspicions will go way up, but I don't agree with insta-lynch. We all agreed that fakeclaiming is not something a blue role would do, and is most likely coming from scum.
If he flips scum, then we will take a long hard look at the people who insist that he shouldn't be lynched.
Ox, as of now, is my top candidate for a lynch. He's been so obnoxious and so annoying regarding the whole Mattchew business that he looks the most suspicious up to now. He also has been of zero usefulness this entire game.
@Shiaopi Your meta is a little off from Dwarf Mafia, where you were town and had much more contribuitive posts in day 1. When will your internet be fixed? Basically that, if Matt flips town, then BC could be anything, but if Matt flips scum then BC is most likely town, and everyone who defended Matt until Palmars confirmation looks kind of bad. People who defend Matt after Palmars confirmation look bad for creating a disruption over something that is allready decided, that Matt lied and needs to die, but I think most scum jumped on the bandwagon long ago. If Matt is an Assassin then we get rid of both the 3rd Party in return for 2 townies dead. Not a good trade, but I think it´s unlikely that Matt is an assassin. There´s no point in not defending yourself to the end as a 3rd Party, while scum often shut up to avoid giving away any of their buddies. On September 05 2012 14:38 Bill Murray wrote: No, Forumite. I don't see how you get that whatsoever. I see you as being scum with Mattchew for not jumping on voting him there. Isn´t that a different accusation? Before you accuse me of trying to get Matt to claim (meaning that you thought I was scum and Matt town), and now you say I´m scum together with Matt. To answer why I didn´t vote Matt early, at the time I was weighing on what Matt was and engaged him in conversation to get a better read, but until Palmar confirmed how Nosy Neighbors works, there wasn´t enough on Matt for me to throw down a vote. Matt was suspicious for claiming NN, but there were no proof that he was really lying at the time. Why should I vote someone who claims a town role unless I have a good reason to think he´s lying? ^ Circumstantial connections. And a lot of hypothetical connections in this defense. Not to mention he kind of alludes to the fact that by now the scum have jumped on the band wagon. Also he is REALLY trying to distance himself from Matt.. excessively so... I'll be posting more shortly- but this one just made me /facepalm and I wanted to post while still fresh in my mind. Another thing that I was thinking- Forumite accuses me and Hapahauli as his number 1 and 2 scum reads. I have 2 problems with this- 1) I'm not scum. 2) Hapahauli was one of the people who seemed adamant about asking if NN is self-aware.... that seems awfully townie to me.
And I was correct in Hapha being town.
Its the bandwagoning from randoms and lurkers that makes me NOT want to vote for Forumite- it has very little to do with how Forumite is playing.
I don't like the way these cases are being played out. By there being more than just a dominant voice of "Everyone pile on this person"- having another option forces people to choose. If everyone just says "vote for this person" and no one is offering an alternative- scum is safe to just follow along since there wasn't a realistic option. UNLESS- that person is scum... then they could conceivably try to bus their team mate..... So, if Forumite were to be scum, I feel like there wouldn't be such quick votes on him, and rather a scum or two would try to protect their team mate... that isn't happening though.
Honestly- make me the second person. I'm town, so if you guys do end up lynching me PLEASE look at the deciding voters and people who don't offer cases against me because that is where you will find your scum... oh yea- and maybe check in on the people who are leading the charge ;o
I kind of laughed when I was done writing this- because its pretty obvious that I'm potentially describing myself as the person trying to protect his scum-buddy... I guess that's up for you guys to decide. (I'm not)
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Okay.
Just read through the latest lynch... I was planning on dropping my notes but it just would look cluttered so I'm going to settle with the people that I'm REALLY sure are mafia and give my explanation for it. I am ranking them in the order of my confidence in my read.
My top 3 are tied for number 1 reads.
ShiaoPi - Scummy. Really scummy. DISAPPEARS when the vote comes. <- this is copied straight out of my notes that I was taking.... Honestly.. just read through his filter/posts!! There is no way this guy is town. 0. No chance. I think he voted Z-Boson because he knew it would be a throw-away vote.
Shady Sands- just scummy. Hard defends Shiao. Argues with Hapa (town). DISAPPEARS when the vote comes. <- So similar to the play style of ShiaoPi and there seems to be some really slight buddying occurring. He continues to live in "Matthchew" land and never seems to snap into the current thread which kind of shows me a lack of understanding. His most recent attack on Gravan to be honest is just an attempt to push an early vote while scum is being successful.
Rewok- side steps responsibility constantly. He has ONE PAGE OF FILTER. (@!#*(@!* So either awful town, or scum.
DoYouHas Mementoss- Totally uninvolved. Voted me besides it having zero impact on the game. Scummy. His ONE saving grace is that he repped DoYouHas... the only problem with that is DoYouHas was kind of scummy.... and Mementoss is doing just about nothing to save that... Also Shady's 'coin flip' indicates that one of his options is scum... and its Mementoss.
Toadesstern- Random poker talk? Discusses roles bit. Rustles up the forumite case based off a different game. Makes an interesting accusation that either Grush OR sandy is scum… makes me think Grush is likely town and Shadey is scum based on my reads above. Defends Shady shortly after that "Or" post and soft attacks him same post indicating some sort of ambivalence about being too closely connected. DISAPPEARS when its voting time, even though he kind of was a major advocate of the Forumite lynch at the start.....
slosh- posts late. Softly attacks forumite. References past games a lot. Afks most of the game when discussions are getting active. Gets active on Forumite then gone. He references that scum's plan is likely to lay low.. which is exactly what he is doing.
So there you have it. It will take a miracle from God to get me to vote anyone but those top 3. The bottom 3 have some leverage to work with, but not much.
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On September 12 2012 09:23 Mementoss wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2012 07:50 Maverick32x wrote: Okay.
Just read through the latest lynch... I was planning on dropping my notes but it just would look cluttered so I'm going to settle with the people that I'm REALLY sure are mafia and give my explanation for it. I am ranking them in the order of my confidence in my read.
My top 3 are tied for number 1 reads.
ShiaoPi - Scummy. Really scummy. DISAPPEARS when the vote comes. <- this is copied straight out of my notes that I was taking.... Honestly.. just read through his filter/posts!! There is no way this guy is town. 0. No chance. I think he voted Z-Boson because he knew it would be a throw-away vote.
Shady Sands- just scummy. Hard defends Shiao. Argues with Hapa (town). DISAPPEARS when the vote comes. <- So similar to the play style of ShiaoPi and there seems to be some really slight buddying occurring. He continues to live in "Matthchew" land and never seems to snap into the current thread which kind of shows me a lack of understanding. His most recent attack on Gravan to be honest is just an attempt to push an early vote while scum is being successful.
Rewok- side steps responsibility constantly. He has ONE PAGE OF FILTER. (@!#*(@!* So either awful town, or scum.
DoYouHas Mementoss- Totally uninvolved. Voted me besides it having zero impact on the game. Scummy. His ONE saving grace is that he repped DoYouHas... the only problem with that is DoYouHas was kind of scummy.... and Mementoss is doing just about nothing to save that... Also Shady's 'coin flip' indicates that one of his options is scum... and its Mementoss.
Toadesstern- Random poker talk? Discusses roles bit. Rustles up the forumite case based off a different game. Makes an interesting accusation that either Grush OR sandy is scum… makes me think Grush is likely town and Shadey is scum based on my reads above. Defends Shady shortly after that "Or" post and soft attacks him same post indicating some sort of ambivalence about being too closely connected. DISAPPEARS when its voting time, even though he kind of was a major advocate of the Forumite lynch at the start.....
slosh- posts late. Softly attacks forumite. References past games a lot. Afks most of the game when discussions are getting active. Gets active on Forumite then gone. He references that scum's plan is likely to lay low.. which is exactly what he is doing.
So there you have it. It will take a miracle from God to get me to vote anyone but those top 3. The bottom 3 have some leverage to work with, but not much. Shit son 8 mafia in a 26 person game. Also everything about your TOP 3 scum reads can be said about you, you have a 2 page filter and lurk just as much as shiopi, shady sands or rewok. So why doesn't the case on them apply to you?
Read ShiaoPi's filter.... All of his posts are like he is just side-commenting on the 'meta' of the game, as opposed to actually digging into it. So few of them have any substance.
Shady is similar in that he isn't digging into the game. There is just nothing there? I don't know how I can be clearer...
This whole "you're stupid town" seems more like an effort to discredit me than anything else...
As for the copious amount of scum in my last post- yes, but those are who I have strong reads on currently.
Voting for ShiaoPi once day hits.
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Though a decent argument could be started with Darth's latest post...
Its pretty obvious why Toad would be considered 'confirmed town' based off Z-boson's threat that he would take a mafia down with his role..... Sounds like you're playing ignorant? Either way, you avoided my top 3 list, so I'll let it slide.
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Read through the case on me-
There is a LOT of tunneling going on.... Also why are people STILL bringing up Matt?? My 'soft defense' occurred prior to any confirmation that he was lying... once that was confirmed.. I switched. Simple enough.
As for my "blaming the lurkers is an easy strategy"- There is something unique about those top 3 that I find is different than just 'lurking'.... there is something about the frequency of posts and the disappearance of them.... I know thats not the concrete answer you guys want, so I'll try to get some 'science' to back that feeling up.
Voting me is a mistake. I am a plain boring vanilla town.
I just really can't understand how ShiaoPi is not scum to more people? Okay, his 'timezone' presents as an issue to discussion.... and I'll even move past the lurking to be more specific in his posts.
On September 04 2012 12:17 ShiaoPi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 12:13 BroodKingEXE wrote: Actually, Mattchew why should they claim now? Can't they just wait till its pointed out? no...that kind of defeats the purpose
Lets bring it ALL the way back... He is backing up Matt's encouragement for others to claim. How is this LESS scummy than me soft defending someone who I didn't know I was lying?
On September 04 2012 15:17 ShiaoPi wrote: No disrespect meant to you rewok, but what the fuck is a list full of null-reads supposed to do? It is on the first hand piling up the the thread like crazy and secondly it gives us 0 information...you are simply rehashing what happened in the thread so far. That entire post can be summarized into: "I have no clue about you guys, mind helping to lynch scum?"
Seriously.....dafuq
Right, Rewok's decision to do this sucks. Doesn't seem like Rewok and him are connected based off that post. I highlight this post mainly due to the relationship that is seen here.
On September 05 2012 10:39 ShiaoPi wrote: can you just shut up ottox, it gets annoying to see you harping around the same obvious nonsense all thread long....
On September 05 2012 10:55 ShiaoPi wrote:@Ottox: thanks, have a good night and just cut it >_> @Hapa: Besides the ones that have been called out already (e.g. Ottox, goodkarma, Milton, all leaning scum for me, maybe with the exception of Ottox...) I do not really have some at the moment. Austin is way more inactive from the town-austin I know but that's a kind of weak meta argument right now. Also I am still waiting on Gravan Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 09:38 Gravan wrote:
The post where I make my comments on the information currently present (as in, not to do with the matt bandwagon) is coming up later. I just wanted to put down somehing somewhat solid so thanI can start to develop a post hostory, watery as it might be.
Both of these posts were made prior to Ottox's (town) death. ALSO, His statement of Ottox (town), Goodkarama(scum) and Milton (personally I think town) are leaning scum... but he 'excuses' Ottox.... LIKELY because he knows that Ottox is on the chopping block. Also, as pointed out previously, it is typical for scum to post a list, and sprinkle in scum buddies.
On September 05 2012 16:53 ShiaoPi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 12:43 Z-BosoN wrote:
@Shiaopi Your meta is a little off from Dwarf Mafia, where you were town and had much more contribuitive posts in day 1. When will your internet be fixed? Internet is unstable as of now, dunno if it will get better. If you are concerned about my meta you should probably read TL Mafia LV instead, since dwarf fortress was a mini, but anyway. Gravan has gone to sleep apparently without doing his promised post, which is something I really don't like...
Comments made about his lack of meta- these are covered up by "Internet problems" However, observations made about his meta.
On September 06 2012 11:23 ShiaoPi wrote: EBWOP:
I just woke up and read through. Matt flipped red as everyone (bar Ottox) expected, so I'll be talking about him first. To be honest I thought for a while that Ottoxlol is just bad townie, but having caught up with the thread, naaah he is like 99% red. Hopefully a vig shoots him tonight, so he's gone.
Also Gravan has finally done some contribution beyond Mattchew stuff, but I am not impressed at all. It feels like it was a case for sake of writing a case on somebody to get off some pressure which has started on you. He should either be a town kill at night or lynched tomorrow if it stays this way with all the points in thread already.
Ending the post with some comments on the cases we got this night so far. DYH brought up Hopeless1der as a candidate. Reading Hopeless' filter there is some merit to DYH's accusation, but I am not entirely sold on him being scum.
Hapa also brought out quite a switch from DrH/Blackmamba in opinion so I am interested in hearing his answer to it as well. Looked a lot like his town play though so maybe he got some good explanation for it. Also shouldn't lvdr be modkilled by now? no posts at all.
Him and lvdr are likely not connected- again, just another relationship point. Also, Hapa becomes his new target at this point. Similar to Ottox, he starts to pick up speed on targeting him.
-He goes into a string of 1 liners at this point- likely due to my confrontation with him.-
But then Hapa makes a decent post attacking him.
On September 09 2012 12:44 Hapahauli wrote: 1) ShiaoPi has a reasonably active town-meta. ShiaoPi has no scum meta. 2) ShiaoPi is hardcore lurking this game, "internet issues" cited, but were not mentioned pre-game (odd, considering severity). His activity is very different from his 6 town games.
He certainly hasn't posted anything that makes me think he's town. Some other newer players have posts that show effort, but ShiaoPi has shown none. As far as I'm concerned, the above makes him scummy. If he'd like to defend himself and convince me otherwise, he should take the opportunity to do so.
Should I hold your hand too, or will that suffice?
I don't want to post the WHOLE quote from Shiao- you can look it up, but again with an excuse of internet problems and a post pretty much just defending himself from Hapa who attacks him pretty hard....
On September 09 2012 19:27 ShiaoPi wrote: I would see Hapa as town. His reasoning was solid for most parts and I can understand his frustration with the game since he led a mislynch. Also his "selectiveness" reads to me as focusing on one read at a time which does not sound too bad with me. Got to go now though
Similar with Ottox- ShiaoPi decides to absolve Hapa and declare him TOWN.
oh ya... Hapa dies that night..... .... .... .....
Seems similar to the Ottox? Ottox attacks him.. Dies... Hapa attacks him... Dies...
Something tells me this is more than just a bad feeling....
Get your votes off me you dummies.
Vote Scum. Vote ShiaoPi.
MAVERICK OUT!
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oh ya- I know I mention Rewok as town in there<- and I'm starting to believe he is just a new townie! Not scum.
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I don't know if you're being sarcastic or not, but sure... let me eat dinner...
@Shiao- What? Your internet is working for the next 10 minutes magically after I post?? Sweeeet.
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Doop-de-doop, I'll look at Grav.
Before I dig into filters, my gut feeling of Grav is that he has been on the side lines throughout the game and that he's a new player.
On September 05 2012 05:41 Gravan wrote: This post is passive and is just here to give you guys some information about me.
I am reading through all the filters and will be making a real contributive post sometime soon. I haven't been keeping up with this thread as well as I ought to have. For some reason, I can't seem to access the voting link from my phone - I am trying to work out when the vote is due, but I will be submitting one in a few hours after reading and pondering, once I get back to my computer. I hope I am not missing a deadline because I really would not like to be modkilled so early on.
I am done traveling after today, so I will be properly active very shortly. Sorry for lurking and not contributing.
Again, sorry for the spam, hello and expect to start hearing from me.
Passive. Very passive and apologetic. This sounds like subtle fear of being 'found out' (scummy)
On September 05 2012 09:38 Gravan wrote:First, the straightforward part. It seems to me that Matt is most likely an assassin, or a very careless player. As many have said before me, there is no case for him to do what he did from a town perspective. To me, it seems that if he were mafia or town, we would likely have seen at least some kind of attempt at an explanation - either to strengthen his fellow mafia by giving them 'towncred' as they jump on his bandwagon or to try to convince us we are making a mistake as a town blue. As an assassin, he could just be seeing his end and giving up - this is of course moot if he decides to put in his piece later. Since he is apparently not a random newbie (who is a random newb, anyway ?), and clearly likes to be an active player, it shouts assasinto me. Since it is day 1 and we only have so much information, we essentially have to lynch him anyway (even if we were nearly certain he is an assassin. At this time, I'll be throwing my vote his way. The post where I make my comments on the information currently present (as in, not to do with the matt bandwagon) is coming up later. I just wanted to put down somehing somewhat solid so thanI can start to develop a post hostory, watery as it might be.
Wants to blend in. Still apologizing. Pretty bad first couple posts.
On September 05 2012 13:30 Gravan wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 13:00 Hapahauli wrote: Why is he voting Mattchew if he's convinced he's an assassin? Hell that post doesn't really explain why he's even voting - "we essentially have to lynch him anyway" - wut? This is my fault for wording this sentence poorly. Although I am still leaning towards Matt being an assassin, he certainly looks all kinds of scummy as well. There isn't enough information at this point to lynch someone else - this lynch will, at worst, be neutral. I feel that, unless someone who has better evidence against them comes up (unlikely) we are better off to make this lynch and gain the information (Matt's flip) than sit idle. I am just asserting that I personally think he is an assassin. I'm done on the whole Matt issue now; still working on making my posts more constructive and less parrot-y. If Matt flips scum, Ottox and Toad really need to be looked at. Ottox has been making his bizarre crusade about the potential innocence of Matt, as everyone knows. To me, Toad's last few posts have seemed a little aimless and very personally aggressive with little content. He spends a considerable amount of time shutting down and pointing at Ottox (who is looking obviously scummy or very misguided) in a well written post, then shifts to personal attacks and negligent remarks. Sleep time for me now; I'll actually have some rest by tomorrow and won't be travelling.
This was my perspective as well when I played the Portal Mafia, which is making me wonder if a lot of this is kind of 'new town' sort of stuff? My perspective was "Kill everyone that is not town" I didn't care if you were 3rd party, 4th party or mafia.... if you weren't green... you needed to die. So his thought that- "Well, he's 3rd party, so we're good to lynch him" makes a lot of sense to me. He connects Ottox and Toad loosely... but I think he digs in a bit with his reads considering his post history.
On September 06 2012 10:16 Gravan wrote:I think Bill Murray is scum. Show nested quote +Also, Hapahauli, what is your read on Gravan? Scum or town? I don't want you using the word Null. Pick one. Scum or town? Consider yourself having a Gun to your head. This is the first time he mentions me. At this point, he hasn't put forward any kind of read on me at all. In addition, many of his posts up until this point (not to mention quite a few afterward) are pointless one-liners, or just generally non-contributing. The next thing he does is tell austin to read my filter as if I was scum (again, not argument put forward on his part - he is talking as if me being scum is a forgone conclusion). + Show Spoiler +On September 06 2012 07:18 austinmcc wrote: Show nested quote + Looking through his profile, I see his only other game was LIII. So he's at least played, although not with me. But he knows that some of the people in this game played that game, he played with them, he knows they are competent individuals with functioning brains.
It's the first time I've ever seen someone cling to something absolutely wrong in this manner. I have posted paranoid rants in two games, stuck by them for a while as possibilities, gotten upset if people wouldn't consider them as possibilities, but I didn't get like this.
Right now (and if Matt flips scum I will be more certain of the read) I can't help but read the whole thing like this: Matt got caught Ottoxlol tried to save him, without realizing how bad an idea it was Ottoxlol shortly realized how bad an idea it was A decent scum player told him right after he got caught looking very odd that he couldn't back off his defense, because then he'd look even scummier So he went full bore nuts, and that's why he won't listen to anyone or anything
It doesn't feel like he's just obtuse. At some point he'd get the message. It feels like he's clinging to this.
Do me a favor, and go read Gravan's filter as if he were a scum idiot Then he goes on to say that hap is on his scumlist for "coaching" me. + Show Spoiler +On September 06 2012 07:23 Hapahauli wrote: Show nested quote +
Null. Deal with it.
His posts/logic right now could come from either mafia or bad-townie. I don't have enough information to make a decision since hasn't posted much. Fortunately we have 48 hours to make a read on him.
yeah youre on my scum list so is gravan you openly coached him Afterwards, he includes doyouhas in this list. + Show Spoiler +filter On September 06 2012 07:27 imallinson wrote: Show nested quote +
I'd say Gravan looks real scummy right now. He attempted the same thing as Ottox, defending Matt by saying he was probably an assassin, but much more quietly and backed away as soon as he realised it was a bad idea. If anything that looks more scummy than Ottox at the moment.
THANK YOU. Go read Gravan's filter, and tell me if you don't find hapa coaching him? 2nd person I've caught him coaching that looks like scum with him (Doyouhas is the other) His next two posts that mention me go on to mention (offhandedly) the apparently obvious need to have me shot by a vig. Further, if you read his filter he is very non-comittal on the otto-defending-matt-and-generally-acting-scummy issue. His posts are passively worded and just softly agree with the flow of the thread at the time.
I ALMOST like this post. He target BM which is cool. Very straight forward, non-apologetic. The only problem is, its only because he's being called out and feels threatened. So again with the fear response.
On September 06 2012 10:39 Gravan wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 10:31 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On September 06 2012 10:26 Gravan wrote:On September 06 2012 10:18 Z-BosoN wrote:On September 06 2012 10:16 Gravan wrote:I think Bill Murray is scum. Also, Hapahauli, what is your read on Gravan? Scum or town? I don't want you using the word Null. Pick one. Scum or town? Consider yourself having a Gun to your head. This is the first time he mentions me. At this point, he hasn't put forward any kind of read on me at all. In addition, many of his posts up until this point (not to mention quite a few afterward) are pointless one-liners, or just generally non-contributing. The next thing he does is tell austin to read my filter as if I was scum (again, not argument put forward on his part - he is talking as if me being scum is a forgone conclusion). + Show Spoiler +On September 06 2012 07:18 austinmcc wrote: Show nested quote + Looking through his profile, I see his only other game was LIII. So he's at least played, although not with me. But he knows that some of the people in this game played that game, he played with them, he knows they are competent individuals with functioning brains.
It's the first time I've ever seen someone cling to something absolutely wrong in this manner. I have posted paranoid rants in two games, stuck by them for a while as possibilities, gotten upset if people wouldn't consider them as possibilities, but I didn't get like this.
Right now (and if Matt flips scum I will be more certain of the read) I can't help but read the whole thing like this: Matt got caught Ottoxlol tried to save him, without realizing how bad an idea it was Ottoxlol shortly realized how bad an idea it was A decent scum player told him right after he got caught looking very odd that he couldn't back off his defense, because then he'd look even scummier So he went full bore nuts, and that's why he won't listen to anyone or anything
It doesn't feel like he's just obtuse. At some point he'd get the message. It feels like he's clinging to this.
Do me a favor, and go read Gravan's filter as if he were a scum idiot Then he goes on to say that hap is on his scumlist for "coaching" me. + Show Spoiler +On September 06 2012 07:23 Hapahauli wrote: Show nested quote +
Null. Deal with it.
His posts/logic right now could come from either mafia or bad-townie. I don't have enough information to make a decision since hasn't posted much. Fortunately we have 48 hours to make a read on him.
yeah youre on my scum list so is gravan you openly coached him Afterwards, he includes doyouhas in this list. + Show Spoiler +filter On September 06 2012 07:27 imallinson wrote: Show nested quote +
I'd say Gravan looks real scummy right now. He attempted the same thing as Ottox, defending Matt by saying he was probably an assassin, but much more quietly and backed away as soon as he realised it was a bad idea. If anything that looks more scummy than Ottox at the moment.
THANK YOU. Go read Gravan's filter, and tell me if you don't find hapa coaching him? 2nd person I've caught him coaching that looks like scum with him (Doyouhas is the other) His next two posts that mention me go on to mention (offhandedly) the apparently obvious need to have me shot by a vig. Further, if you read his filter he is very non-comittal on the otto-defending-matt-and-generally-acting-scummy issue. His posts are passively worded and just softly agree with the flow of the thread at the time. This is the worst case I've ever seen. Typically, when one argues against another, a counter-argument has to be presented. Since it appears as though I am on some people's chopping blocks, some discussion could be useful. Just denouncing my case gets town no-where. You chose a poor person to analyze. Bm is like chezinu and incredibly hard to pin down normally. You typically have to rely on things like scumslips to catch either of them or take look at the overall effort they put into a game. Now given that. You're analysis is very lacking, and looks like cherry picking. You don't include examples or even a link to his filter to prove your case. It seems rushed and made by someone backed into a corner. If you are town you should have no reason to feel rushed, you have plenty of time to post your thoughts. First off, while I understand a player's meta is something to consider, I really have no idea what you are talking about with respect to how Bill plays or whoever this chezinu is. I included at least three examples. See those quotes/spoilers? All of them include quotes from Bill Murray. As to being rushed, well, I am just trying to not lurk. Apparently that is a bad thing to do - working on putting my thoughts out there and trying to stimulate discussion.
I like this post actually. It speaks to me well. I also am not up to speed on the "meta" of other players... This indicates to me that he really IS a new player.. trying to find his way and get the swing of things. He wants to put his thoughts out and get something going, but seems unclear as to how to do it.
Okay, as I'm going through the filters from this point to the end of his page 1- he all of a sudden starts to pick up a LOT more momentum. He is being more assertive with his claims and is getting more involved.
Here are some posts.
On September 09 2012 01:02 Gravan wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 00:50 BroodKingEXE wrote:On September 09 2012 00:26 austinmcc wrote:On September 09 2012 00:21 Shady Sands wrote: Thanks.
Ergo, we have no way to verify BKE's claim... Right. Either he's a watcher OR he chose a fakeclaim so bad it could be disproven pretty much by flips alone. And it wasn't a pressure claim, he was getting called out all yesterday, then claimed while nobody was doing anything. I'm currently believing the claim since it seems like a giant risk to take when you're already down 2. Heck, why go with a terrible fake claim when you could name anything?
BM, where you at? We discussed scum having/not having some sort of leader earlier. I'd like to hear your updated thoughts. Ottoxlol flipped town, so it's not a case where mattchew/ottox/gravan all messed up and looked scummy D1. 2 vets died, so they're not options as some sort of mafia general, commanding the troops. Now we've got this BKE claim. Do you believe that claim? Are there players you could see saying, "hey you, go make a terrible fakeclaim that's so bad people will have trouble thinking it's from scum"? I don't see BKE, if scum, going that route, because you don't really gain anything compared to a better fake claim. I have to be honest, Im just laying it out. In XIII Newbie, I was One-Shot and didn't claim and everyone said I should've. I don't want to make the same mistake. I know me getting GK back is useless, but I need town to know what you guys will be lynching. Medic should not claim definetly(if we have one and they acted), else we both die. I picked BC primarily for the reason that Matt was his first pick and he was using the lynch to look around for other scum. He was speaking with really solid logic and had a few scum reads already. DrH was under a bit of fire, so I wasn't sure if scum was going to let that sit and develop. I didn't think Toad was active enough to be killed that night, but he had by then moved to my town list due to his response to my case. Just to make it clear I think Shady and Mav are scum I would actually like to hear what you suspect happened on N1 - who did what, from your point of view. What was the scenario? Also, unless I am missing it, did you actually make any kind of case against Shady?
On September 09 2012 01:50 Gravan wrote: I still have reservations about this switch. According to what I can gather from this thread, Grush always acts like an idiot. This gets him mislynched often. We're lynching him, instead of BKE (who, until his meager roleclaim and sudden throwing out of cases) was under intense suspicion and getting wagon'd.
So far as I can tell, the logic goes roughly as follows:
BKE is very suspicious, but his blue claim isn't out of the question. Lynching a blue would be very detrimental to the town.
Grush is suspicious (alternatively idiotic and anti-town, depending on who is talking) and non-contributive besides. Lynching Grush is, at worse, a mislynch (we won't miss his discussions as a townie) and at best a mafia lynch.
This is all just a little sudden for me. What happened to those strong suspicions regarding BKE's earlier flip-flopping? Can one of you vote-switchers explain to me how that behaviour is now negated/lessened because of his role-claim?
On September 10 2012 03:52 Gravan wrote:There is a lot of "in this game x player played like this" or, "y is a veteran, therefore the following is probable...". While I think these are fine as supporting arguments (since past tendencies/experience are relevant things to consider) I feel like all this talk of veterans and meta play is clouding and overtaking what people have actually said and how people have actually been playing. It could be a mafia tactic to draw away from the discussion, or it could just be a little too much focus on outside/less relevant factors, but either way I encourage everyone to focus more on filters from this game and less on filters from other games. Also: Show nested quote +On September 10 2012 02:56 strongandbig wrote:##vote: toad for mayorNo but actually, you bring up a very good point. I played in WoF and Forumite this game does remind me of his play from that game. That said, I think austin's case on z-boson is pretty good as well - he's hedging a lot, and his reasoning around the BKE vote really doesn't make much sense. So toad and austin, since both of you are pretty decent players and regardless of your own alignments are gonna be pretty good at mafia logic, what do you make of each others' cases? One last thing - I don't have all that much time so I was looking through some shorter filters. What do people think of hopeless1der? His filter can be described as - kind of a scummy waffle around the mattchew lynch - tunneling forumite Now, on the one hand I think forumite is a decent scum candidate; but seriously I don't think hopeless has talked about anything else for more than one or two lines. This is a contradiction for me from past games, where hopeless's filter has looked well-thought-out and where it's easy to get a town read on him. Also I feel like there might be a contradiction here: On September 05 2012 06:18 Hopeless1der wrote:On September 05 2012 06:09 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On September 05 2012 05:57 Bill Murray wrote:On September 04 2012 09:36 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 09:12 Mattchew wrote: I am a nosy neighbor. Anyone else with this role should insta-claim as well.
The reason people policy lynch people like BM and Grush is because they get by into later in the game because they are unreadable. This is because they barely actually play the game and if you end up in lylo with one of them left, you've basically already lost. I completely understand anyone wanting to policy lynch them, but we should also not allow them to be off the hook for some sort of scum read during the day.
That being said, I remember thinking to myself that I don't hate BM's play in the last few games I have been in with him. I do not want to policy lynch today.
Why would you claim this? You eliminated yourself as a possible blue from scums list of townies, and it´s not like you doing this eliminates you as a scum suspect. If someone see you visiting a player who dies the we´re lynching you anyway. check this scummy post from forumite 1) misreads the setup 2) attacks him with a smirk for the claim, which looks scummy as shit 3) takes the visiting thing a step further, saying "if they die" which clears a ton of scum roles... forumite is scum with a role FoS: Forumite Only real issue I have with this is that he didn't misread the setup to my knowledge. The setup was completely ambiguous on the Nosy Neighbor and required a mod to come in and clarify the situation. Aside from that I do get how you made the connections you did although he doesn't neccesarily have a scum role as my understanding of the setup would be mafia choose who makes a night KP given that no mafia can be responsible for more than 1 shot according to that mafia KP change. Thus any "non visiting mafia" would be "cleared" from suspicion. A mafia with a role can both use his action and take a shot. As an example, the mafia Vig can 'visit' and shoot two different players in the same night. I don't follow how the Scum KP mechanics make it unlikely that Forumite (or any potential scum) would NOT have a role, or for example, how a goon who stays home is cleared. On September 08 2012 16:06 Hopeless1der wrote: Unless someone claims a vig shot on GK, you're supposed to be dead right now. That was worse than Mattchew's claim. insta-reaction was to throw water on bke's claim, even though he already knew a scum with a role could also deliver a factional kp. Now, I also didn't believe bke's claim, but it's not just that he didn't believe it - he discounted it with a reason that he already knew wasn't airtight. Not sure how bad of a contradiction that is but I think it is a contradiction. I do get the feeling (as I implied/made light of earlier) that Hopeless' claim was a little too absolute. I would like to hear a little more of Hopeless so that I can get a bit more of a read on him - especially since his favourite target (forumite) is in the spotlight/sights right now.
Ok, this next post I think is REALLY important.
On September 12 2012 05:48 Gravan wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2012 05:39 Forumite wrote:On September 12 2012 04:27 Hopeless1der wrote:If you're going to respond, could you not cherry pick? Forumite, Why should we lynch Z-Boson? Why do you want me to die? Make an effort to explain yourself.
I don´t know, stuff you´ve done. I´m not as sure on you as on Z-boson and BM though, and sometimes I get the feeling you are more likely town. I have 80 minutes left in the game, why do you want me to spend it on making a case on you? On September 12 2012 04:37 Mementoss wrote:On September 12 2012 04:35 Z-BosoN wrote:Also, eagerly awaiting your case on mav: On September 11 2012 22:12 Mementoss wrote: I am at work and don't have much time. Catching up is hard, from my reading so far I think Maverick is scum and will vote him I read the most recent case on forumite but I just don't see it. Hopefully I can finish filling in the gaps of reading tonight and actually post a worthy post of why maverick is scum. I'm hoping I can make deadline today busy day. When I posted this I was at page 40. I'm at page 59 now. So I still have half the game to catch up on. At this point it won't change whose going to get lynched, but I still have to find out who is scum so I can be helpful day4 Mementoss is SCUM SCUM SCUM! Noone cares about Mav, so stop wasting your vote and actually put it on someone that might get lynched tonight. There are only 3 candidates: Forumite Z-Boson Bill MurrayPut it on one of them, or I´ll scream at vigis to kill you tonight! On September 12 2012 04:54 Gravan wrote: At this point, my viewpoint is as follows (on the big topics):
Bill Murray is still suspicious, but, really, who the fuck knows? Z-Boson is highly suspicious.
Forumite is highly suspicious, and very shifty. For somebody who is posting somewhat regularily, he hasn't done too much to defend himself other than point as many fingers as he can as quickly as he can - something that seems really scummy.
I wish we had another day to talk about this, heh.
##Vote Forumite. On September 12 2012 04:56 Gravan wrote: To be a bit more clear:
Bill Murray's posting is very difficult to read, and he claims to have had more knowledge than he really ought to have had. That said, he has apparently been playing mafia for a while so he could also have just made a good read.
Z-Boson is far too defensive for my liking - it seems like he thinks that every post that isn't in agreement with him, or that pulls the discussion away from his posts, is targeted at him. FML You explain how all three candidates are scummy, and then vote the one with the biggest wagon. You are SCUM! too. This kind of posts only strengthens the need to vote for you, in my mind. Down to the wire, all you are doing is pointing as many fingers as you can, as aggressively as you can (in big red letters, hehe), with the bare minimum amount of evidence or effort. It seems desperate instead of simply defensive. Why not try to clear your name and answer the accusations about yourself as best you can in an attempt to lift votes off you (no matter how futile, at this late hour)? Hopeless (the first person in the game to point a serious finger at you) has even given you this opportunity on a silver platter. Yet, all you continue to do is dodge and slip around, shouting at other people and being selective in your question answering and case-making.
This is something that I think he was TRYING to do early game. However, he kind of violates his own rule when he decided to turn on BM in an attempt to 'clear his name'. In fact- his quoted posts above clearly indicate that he felt he needed a counter argument... which was to point fingers to clear his name?????
Other than that, he has started to contribute a lot more which I can relate to. I hate posting early in the game. It sucks. Its confusing. There are too many people talking. You have people like BM saying things like "This person is scum" and everyone just listens to them for seemingly NO reason... Now though- he is posting significantly differently than he was at the start....
Why would a scum INCREASE his posting.. when there are plenty of lurkers for him to hide amongst? He is putting himself out there in more assertive ways...
This speaks more to Gravan's personality as a person.. probably awkward in groups- has to get to know people more before opening up...probably only has a few close friends.. etc etc... (Also yes, I am a therapist ha)
tldr: Gravan appears to be a new player(town)- or a mafia pretending to be new.. and doing an absolutely awesome job at it.
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