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On October 02 2012 10:34 gonzaw wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 09:52 JingleHell wrote: Luckily, Gonzaw is an arrogant dipshit who forgets that while he was wishy-washy tunneling me, he was actually just throwing around throwaway votes and has no room to "I told you so" anyone, or expect to be treated as town for his vote.
Let's get him tomorrow, gents.
Or am I supposed to ignore his tone in his post and bathe in good feelings because he agreed that I'm town while he spewed all sorts of shit? "Town you impress me" is kind of the opposite of "I told you so". Hell I expected it to be a misslynch (I even said so myself) so I'm very impressed. If people had done what I told them to they would have lynched you and (unfortunately) you would have flipped town most likely. Please read carefully before posting. Also I'm not an "arrogant dipshit" and that's the most ironic statement I've seen in TL mafia. Again, carefully read my post, specially the part where I give you advice. No. Calm down, read the thread carefully, stop being so biased and arrogant and think. After you've done that come back and consider lynching me again. I won't take you seriously until you do @S&B: Dude, start posting NOW or I'll do everything in my power to kill you. If I can ever be justified in tunneling the hell out of you in any game we play together it's in this one. You only have 7 freaking posts, 4 of them having less than 3 lines. @Crossfire: You know, the fact that you forgot it's plurality lynch and not majority lynch actually makes you look worse, since you parked your vote on iamperfection and left. If you were scum maybe you thought there would be a NL so you thought iamperfection was safe before disappearing. Is this the case? I don't know. If you don't give more thorough reads and actively participate in discussion while giving your thoughts on things discussed and your thought process (<-most important one) I and the rest of town can't know for sure.
The only irony here is that you start talking shit (which, thankfully, came well AFTER I pointed to your earlier, lighter efforts at inflammation) and then act like I'm being unreasonable when I turn it around on you.
Oh, and maybe the fact that you're trying to use my defense that you clearly hated against me now. QQ much? No, you're caught, give it up. It wouldn't be the first time that a soft bus wasn't enough to buy someone town cred. Byebye.
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On October 02 2012 11:31 gonzaw wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 10:48 JingleHell wrote:On October 02 2012 10:34 gonzaw wrote:On October 02 2012 09:52 JingleHell wrote: Luckily, Gonzaw is an arrogant dipshit who forgets that while he was wishy-washy tunneling me, he was actually just throwing around throwaway votes and has no room to "I told you so" anyone, or expect to be treated as town for his vote.
Let's get him tomorrow, gents.
Or am I supposed to ignore his tone in his post and bathe in good feelings because he agreed that I'm town while he spewed all sorts of shit? "Town you impress me" is kind of the opposite of "I told you so". Hell I expected it to be a misslynch (I even said so myself) so I'm very impressed. If people had done what I told them to they would have lynched you and (unfortunately) you would have flipped town most likely. Please read carefully before posting. Also I'm not an "arrogant dipshit" and that's the most ironic statement I've seen in TL mafia. Again, carefully read my post, specially the part where I give you advice. Let's get him tomorrow, gents. No. Calm down, read the thread carefully, stop being so biased and arrogant and think. After you've done that come back and consider lynching me again. I won't take you seriously until you do @S&B: Dude, start posting NOW or I'll do everything in my power to kill you. If I can ever be justified in tunneling the hell out of you in any game we play together it's in this one. You only have 7 freaking posts, 4 of them having less than 3 lines. @Crossfire: You know, the fact that you forgot it's plurality lynch and not majority lynch actually makes you look worse, since you parked your vote on iamperfection and left. If you were scum maybe you thought there would be a NL so you thought iamperfection was safe before disappearing. Is this the case? I don't know. If you don't give more thorough reads and actively participate in discussion while giving your thoughts on things discussed and your thought process (<-most important one) I and the rest of town can't know for sure. The only irony here is that you start talking shit (which, thankfully, came well AFTER I pointed to your earlier, lighter efforts at inflammation) and then act like I'm being unreasonable when I turn it around on you. Oh, and maybe the fact that you're trying to use my defense that you clearly hated against me now. QQ much? No, you're caught, give it up. It wouldn't be the first time that a soft bus wasn't enough to buy someone town cred. Byebye. You are not making any sense Jingle. Although good job in convincing me you are bad town rather than scum I guess that means you are not actually playing that "bad"? >_> Hell if I know.
You're relying on an ad hominem attack against me to defend against my solidifying case, even though you trying to be inflammatory was a point I made before your recent attempts.
You're actually helping make my case. And since I don't need to convince you you're scum, just everyone else, feel free to keep it up.
Ad homs aren't cases, and they're not defenses, but it's all you have. Cheers.
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On October 02 2012 11:43 gonzaw wrote: If you have a case against me please post it/link to it.
I seriously haven't seen anything resembling a serious accusation from you against me, other than that "you softly bussed iapmerfection" and "he's wishy-washy"
Oh, so you're ignoring the thread, except when it's convenient? More scumtell-ish-ness. Keep handing me evidence. Certainly, if you're going to make personal attacks, which you did, you should be basing them off the person's posting, which should imply you've read it well enough to know it's there.
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I'm not the one trying to create clutter here, you're the one who's acting like I should convince YOU that you're scum, when all I need is to get other people to vote for you. You flipping red will speak for itself. Keeping me engaged in an argument where all you want to do is insult me is clearly a good thing for you, as scum.
If you want to ignore me, except to throw insults around in an effort to make me look bad so people won't see it and agree, please, just ignore me, it's much better for the thread. That's what I'll be doing for a while, at least until you show some actual reasoning.
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On October 03 2012 04:06 austinmcc wrote: JH, what are your reads on Keirathi and mementoss?
Also, I'm trying to follow this spat between you and Gonzaw. You think the early vote on iamperfection and then unvote was a bus attempt that he gave up on? I see a lot of quick responses, but I don't see a coherent summation of why you're finding him scummy based on what he's done.
I think it was a soft bus. Common enough. He was accusing lots of people, vanished with a "throwaway" vote on me, was trying to incite hostilities (and temporarily succeeded, unfortunately) which can only benefit scum, as it makes it hard for his primary detractor to make a case, and hurts logic and reason. His case on me sounded like something grush would come up with, and all of a sudden he's sure I'm town, but that I'm so bad nobody should listen to me.
Yeah, I think he's scum. I don't particularly feel like doing a cut/paste fest to support this, but I can if needed. I just expect a lot of people to react to his inflammatory attitude and ad homs by ignoring anything I put together on him, so it'd be a lot of work for nothing.
Give me a few minutes, and I'll put my thoughts on Keirathi and Memen into proper light.
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Ok, Memen, some reasonable town cred for being early on perfection and staying there. With the split voting, he could have reasonably justified bailing to save such a badass power role if he'd have wanted to.
Keirathi, on the other hand, feels like he knew in advance. He was fairly non-committal with his words, but definitely not feeling it enough to vote. That's a reasonable scum tactic with that sort of lynch. Also, he was pushing consolidation, which might have rescued perfection.
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On October 03 2012 05:43 austinmcc wrote:Also, where do I sheep Gonzaw on JH? Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 00:31 austinmcc wrote:JH, how is PTP3 pushing you to play this way? On October 01 2012 06:31 JingleHell wrote: Oh, and as for trying to be leader-y, after my dismal performance in PTP3, and worse, people listening to me while I was doing it, I'm trying to formulate more solid cases before going after people. I seem to have a knack for accidentally creating anti-town bandwagons, so I want to avoid a repeat of that. On October 02 2012 00:16 JingleHell wrote: Well, sorry you don't appreciate the reason, but it's hard for it not to be foremost in my mind, this is my first game played since that performance. It was painfully embarrassing.
I'm not trying to make myself seem like a non-threat, or push my townie-ness with it, I tried to answer a (fairly valid) point, with my reason for not playing the same way. I probably over-made the point, but that can't much be helped. Why exactly do you find that performance embarrassing, and how is it driving you to play the way you are this game? Is it just the constant pushing of Grush and trying to get people on that lynch? Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 01:43 austinmcc wrote:
RESPONSE TO MATTCHEW ON IAMPERFECTION
I'm more concerned with JH. I think you were right in noting that he de-lurked right after getting called out. But where you say he's explaining this thought process thoroughly, I disagree. I'm not sure I get the change between PTP3 and here, maybe I didn't read the early days of PTP3 close enough to see this, but I remember JH in PTP3 being standoffish and unwilling to do anything but push single players. Being passive certainly provides an alternative playstyle to that, but it's not actually...doing anything. It doesn't seem to actually be BETTER or anything than PTP3 JH, and I'd expect someone who was unhappy with a bad performance to want to follow it up with a good performance, which this isn't. This is just excuses for NO performance. Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 02:14 austinmcc wrote:##Vote: JingleHellThinking about this I'm not sure I get the change between PTP3 and here, maybe I didn't read the early days of PTP3 close enough to see this, but I remember JH in PTP3 being standoffish and unwilling to do anything but push single players. Being passive certainly provides an alternative playstyle to that, but it's not actually...doing anything. It doesn't seem to actually be BETTER or anything than PTP3 JH, and I'd expect someone who was unhappy with a bad performance to want to follow it up with a good performance, which this isn't. This is just excuses for NO performance. has me convinced. If he really feels like he played poorly in PTP3, then the solution is to address the "poorly" part of that, rather than the "played" part. Being non-participatory isn't a better route. You include stuff like that with no reference to Gonzaw on JH, not referencing my prior posts on JH, and then say you have to leave thread.
I'd say if you sheeped anyone regarding me, it would have felt more like you sheeped Mattchew. But really, you were one of the people who at least sounded sane in your suspicions, and overall, you were thinking for yourself, so even if your intial reaction was sheep-ish, your continued interest couldn't be called that.
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On October 03 2012 07:07 Mattchew wrote: i am actively lurking debating if i want to put in the effort for a post on people now or later
OOOH Your first post directed at me was calling me scummy, claiming that missing part of the first half of D1 was active lurking!
LYNCH LYNCH LYNCH!!
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Mementoss, confirmed town, directed at Gonzaw:
On October 01 2012 23:52 Mementoss wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2012 23:44 gonzaw wrote: Yeah but ghost is not Palmar.
We all know how scum Palmar works, and that's a thing a scum Palmar would do. Is it a thing scum ghost would do? (well, to be honest I don't remember him in any games where he was scum though)
Hmm, okay people, what do you guys think about lynching one of these guys: JingleHell Mementos Nisani CrossFire austin iamperfection
And if you'd switch to one of them, why would you do it?
Like I said before I have that same "weird" feeling about them, but again it seems none of them other than Mementos decided to show up to contribute at all. It wouldn't bother me too much since it's D1, but we are getting too close to the lynch deadline and we have to choose a lynch.
We have like 0 information on the table, so it's VERY likely this lynch will be a misslynch, specially if there's some incognito scum in the group of Mementos/Hiro/Keirathi/(me lol)/etc that are driving discussion.
But fuck what else can we do, right?
I'm leaving in like 20 minutes and wondering if I should put my placeholder (or basically lynch vote) onto someone else. I'm gonna eat now....so convince me people Any reason for leaving out mattchew, strongandbig, hiropro, keirathi, drazerk? lol you can't make a list with 6/12 players (not including yourself) That is way too broad, you can't think they are all scum, and its way too easy for scum just to pick one that is not scum and go hey look, why 6 players instead of maybe 3.
On October 01 2012 23:56 Mementoss wrote: DEWBOP: Since when does gonzaw need convincing of who to lynch, isn't gonzaw the one that usually does the convincing?
On October 02 2012 08:54 Mementoss wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 08:45 gonzaw wrote: Town...you impress me
Jingle is town, but he's bad. Bolded bad. Chill out, don't OMGUS, pay attention and don't get all cocky and arrogant and spam the thread with those defenses of yours. The way you argued and interacted with people and the way you kept "shitting things up" even though it was obvious you should have stopped doing that as scum makes me think there's a chance you can be town, so take that chance and try to play better.
ghost and Nisani are likely scum I think, Mementos and Crossfire are there too.
ghost/Nisani/Mementos/Crossfire/Drazerk
I think all remaining scum are in there
Small reasoning here (I have to do some shit, and will have to consolidate a post of mine with all my thoughts and shit and that may take a while, so this is the tl;dr version):
ghost: Yes, I had a "gut" feeling his initial posts may have been from "trolling" townie....but I get the gut feeling he's using scum tactics to pile onto Keirathi there. That post of his reeks of "I'm scum trying to make a case against someone I really want suspicion on". No comments about iamperfection's interactions with him and viceversa. Will read him fully later. Nisani: His "comeback" post was too fluffy and didn't contribute at all. He's not part of discussions at all, and doesn't even try to be. "Not part of discussions"->Easiest heuristic for finding scum/town. "Nisani is not part of discussions"->It's more likely he's scum. Mementos: He didn't do anything at all throughout D1. Same heuristic here as well, he hasn't been part of any discussion even though he was active (like when ghost asked him a question). He didn't heavily push iamperfection so his vote on him doesn't mean anything, specially since unvoting him would not change anything. Still, it doesn't seem right that he'd bus his scummate that early and never try to shift attention to some other townie, so I'll keep that in mind. Crossfire: This guy HAS to be scum. He has done 0 contributions at all and spent 70% of his post "joking" with Drazerk about how he's "confused" about him. Drazerk: Doesn't contribute and just skates by. Like I said he's likely to do the same as town because of the style of his play; but as time goes by it only increases the chances of him being scum. Maybe S&B: I dunno, I'll have to wait if he decides to be useful or not.
About Keirathi: This dude is active as fuck, I heavily doubt he's scum at all nor even 3rd party. Like I said before, there are some subtle things that make him town (like the same things that make Hiro town). Specially his attitude, activity and interactions with other people.
Everybody that's suspicious of him reread his filter and the D1 thread, and then tell me in the eyes he's scum (and not just townie that made mistakes) and explain why.
Yeah this is a shitty post, I'll be back later
P.S: See? This is why you always pay attention to Mattchew. Even if he's scum he 100% busses all his teammates so you are bound to kill any scum he points fingers at. wat Didn't do anything First one to post a case on Iamperfection and make a case Also, what timing. No posting since you left but you manage to make it back 50 minutes after the night post. But nothing before the deadline. Also this last post before you take off for the rest of the day struck me as odd. Pretty weak reason to switch/ odd timing: Show nested quote +On October 01 2012 23:58 gonzaw wrote: Matt, Hiro and Keirathi are all likely town.
S&B I'm torn off but wouldn't want lynched since I know he steps up his game after N1 (as seen in like all games I've been with him as town). Drazerk is Drazerk, I see no reason to think he's scum and lynch him right now.
Yes, it's easy for scum to pick any townie from that list at random and point fingers, but there's no reason to believe him. I trust some people here more than others, and it's the opinion of those that I'll take into account to determine my choice. The "scummy" people would be forced to choose so I can see how they interact and contribute, but not to completely sway my opinion.
Well, tough luck I'm leaving right now. You know what, fuck it:
##Unvote: iamperfection ##Vote: JingleHell
I don't really buy that "the world is against me" attitude and I haven't seen any contribution from him other than his scummy read on Drazerk (maybe his unvote is not that scummy, but it's the only thing I can go on).
Take into account that's a rash vote/placeholder, but oh well.
So long people! Also the tone in your posts don't seem like your town self.
On October 02 2012 08:58 Mementoss wrote: Also @gonzaw, austin is most likely town for what?
Sheeping onto iamperfection when mattchew told him to? Trying to counterwagon a last minute switch onto keirathi?
Dude, either your out of it this game or scum not sure.
Now obviously, he was a solid target no matter what for an NK, since he got perfection, but this is someone who hasn't been baited into an argument by Gonzaw who seems to have also had some serious doubts. I've said what I felt about him already myself.
##Vote Gonzaw
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On October 03 2012 08:11 Mattchew wrote: JH why not austin?
Mattchew, why not Gonzaw?
As Memen said, austin DID explain a lot of those things, he just thought they were justification. I can't be sure one way or the other with austin, he's given alternately scummy and towny vibes to me. When I get back from TKD, I'll try and take a better look through. Got to leave soonish, and there's a bit to wade through, and context will probably matter.
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On October 03 2012 08:35 Mattchew wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2012 08:20 JingleHell wrote:On October 03 2012 08:11 Mattchew wrote: JH why not austin? Mattchew, why not Gonzaw? As Memen said, austin DID explain a lot of those things, he just thought they were justification. I can't be sure one way or the other with austin, he's given alternately scummy and towny vibes to me. When I get back from TKD, I'll try and take a better look through. Got to leave soonish, and there's a bit to wade through, and context will probably matter. i just find it very strange how quickly you are willing to jump on gonzaw cause of meme pushing him, while not jumping on austin for the same reason..
One, I was already thinking Gonzaw was scummy, Meme, it seems, had similar doubts. Austin I was on the fence about, and if you'll notice, Meme's post even ADMITS that Austin has what can be taken as fair explanations, so it's down to whether you accept those explanations. Which is why I'm digging through them later.
Got to run out the door time now, though, just finished getting my shit together to go. Cheers.
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As requested, my thoughts on Memen Re: Austin.
On October 03 2012 05:32 Mementoss wrote:My thoughts on Austinmcc: When I think of everyone in the game the person that sticks out most to me as scum is austinmcc. I realize that most of these points were explained by austin, but any decent scum player can explain things after the fact of doing them. So I figured id sum up my thoughts in this post. 1. Goes from not thinking Keirthia is not scummy, to super scummy in less than 2 hours apart. He doesn't call Keirathi scummy however, he just finds it weird, even though the way austinmcc is posting it seems like he thinks he caught keirathi in a lie. Doesn't vote for him.2. Keeps implying finding keirathi but is too scared to actually place a vote on him, even after complaining about people not consolidating on the votes. Wouldn't austin want to place a vote on keirathi and start pushing him now?? Nope. No fucks were given by austin about keirathis lynch. + Show Spoiler +On October 02 2012 00:31 austinmcc wrote:Alright, done some rereading. My number 1 concern at this point is the number of side squabbles and useless votes that we've got. Previous votecount had 6 people with votes, and I think we're still about as spread out as we were before. Stuff like: Drazerk/snb very interested in each other. Both voting each other, in part, based on what seems to be "He should understand my play better." I don't want to lynch either of them today, and telling me that some other player should understand you better doesn't make me want to lynch that other guy. The votes feel entirely wasted. ghost's vote is wasted. Votes keirathi for trying too hard, never engages anyone else who's talking about keirathi. nisani201 still has a vote on Drazerk for Drazerk's initial response to Keirathi. Followed by very little else and Show nested quote +On October 01 2012 06:54 Nisani201 wrote: I'm still more confident in Drazerk. Can't single people out for not contributing, but those votes look like they've been made without any attempt to convince anyone else, and they don't feel like they're serving a purpose.
JH, how is PTP3 pushing you to play this way? Show nested quote +On October 01 2012 06:31 JingleHell wrote: Oh, and as for trying to be leader-y, after my dismal performance in PTP3, and worse, people listening to me while I was doing it, I'm trying to formulate more solid cases before going after people. I seem to have a knack for accidentally creating anti-town bandwagons, so I want to avoid a repeat of that. Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 00:16 JingleHell wrote: Well, sorry you don't appreciate the reason, but it's hard for it not to be foremost in my mind, this is my first game played since that performance. It was painfully embarrassing.
I'm not trying to make myself seem like a non-threat, or push my townie-ness with it, I tried to answer a (fairly valid) point, with my reason for not playing the same way. I probably over-made the point, but that can't much be helped. Why exactly do you find that performance embarrassing, and how is it driving you to play the way you are this game? Is it just the constant pushing of Grush and trying to get people on that lynch? + Show Spoiler +On October 02 2012 00:58 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 00:38 Keirathi wrote: @austin: what's your position on me now? You jumped from not scummy, to questioning my explanations, and even through out a (laughable) scum motivation for my actions. But you completely didn't even mention me now that you're back. Those jumps are based on what you did in the meantime. Here's my initial post: Show nested quote +On September 30 2012 15:44 austinmcc wrote: ...
I appreciate things getting off to a nice start, but really? Was I the only person who assumed that Keirathi didn't actually have some giant scumread on Mattchew? Given the reasons that he decided to vote mattchew (amg mattchew has used the term town and hasn't claimed a role that doesn't exist), I don't see the unvote as scummy. Vote for weak reasons, unvote for weak reasons.
Drazerk you ACTUALLY think it's anti-town to do that? I didn't see your unvote for weak reasons as scummy. Drazerk had just posted that it was third party or idiot, I didn't find it to be telling at all because the reasoning behind the vote in the first place didn't seem strong. Then after that post, you give your explanation and justification. THAT is what I feel is scummy, reminds me of scum. I'm not concerned about you unvoting based on some weak comments from matt (What drazerk mentioned and what I didn't find scummy), I'm concerned about you based on your later explanation where you claim to have wanted discussion and opinions yet unvote before any of that ever appears. Right now, I'm scummy on you. I'm not going to lead a crusade to lynch you because the way you explained a plan reminds of what a scum player in another game did, however. For now I'm looking elsewhere for today's lynch, and I'm watching you. I'm alright with the way you discussed Ghost when talking to Gonzaw, I don't think someone can get a free pass for a terrible vote and then not pushing it at all. If you want me to keep looking at you, fine. What's up with this? Show nested quote +On October 01 2012 06:03 Keirathi wrote:On October 01 2012 05:59 gonzaw wrote: At Keirathi: 1)Are you going to start scumhunting soon? When I feel like there's enough for me to make an actual case that I believe in. Until them, I'm content to ask questions and discuss the current goings-on in the thread to build my reads. Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 00:40 Keirathi wrote:On October 02 2012 00:36 JingleHell wrote:On October 02 2012 00:31 austinmcc wrote:
Why exactly do you find that performance embarrassing, and how is it driving you to play the way you are this game? Is it just the constant pushing of Grush and trying to get people on that lynch? I led several rather key mislynches. As town. Pushing Grush was about the least embarrassing part of my performance, because frankly, he's useless. I do wish he'd died earlier in the game, though. I don't remember all the specifics at this point off the top of my head, but almost every time I convinced people on someone, it made the overall situation worse. Clearly, if I make too much case out of too little, it doesn't serve the town , so I'm letting things solidify in my mind and in the thread a bit more before going into hardcore push people mode, because once I do that, there's a tendency for someone to get lynched. Being in a town-leader-ish position is only good if I don't also get nominated as the scumteam's MVP as town for it. How long, exactly, do you plan to wait? Theres only 7.5 hours until the deadline. You've been doing more in thread, but it seems like you're getting on JH for saying he's doing exactly what you've said you're doing. Why is it fine for you to wait to scumhunt until you've got enough to make a case, but it's not alright for JH to wait before pushing someone? 3. The vote on imperfection when mattchew told him to. It wasn't serious, but yet he has been withholding voting keirathi all day but can vote iamperfection, I know it was a joke, but it was an odd post, lumping nisani ghost and iamperfection into one boat. Maybe to confuse people into bandwagoning on another? Clearly you could differentiate between them. Austin never bothered to comment on iamperfections rockband meta even though we just finished that game a week ago and he was in it. Avoiding the fact? Wants to limit the discussion on Iamperfection? Hell he didn't even mention him at all before this joke post.4. After pointing out keirathis scumminess all day, austin sheeps under gonzaws wing and votes jinglehell for weak reasoning, and then unvotes him for even weaker reasoning which struck me again as not giving a fuck who was lynched.4. Town reads on Mattchew and Gonzaw. Explained to the max. This just gives me the wrong feeling and reminds me of Palmar from rockband to a bigger extreme. I know he was asked to do this, but the extent he did it, espeically on day 1 town reads. It seems like he actually knows their alignments. This time coulda been spent scum hunting, or provoking some sort of discussion. No one was even thinking of voting either of these two atm, so why give a huge town read on them? Who are you convincing? Who does this help for day 1? + Show Spoiler +On October 02 2012 04:26 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 04:09 Keirathi wrote:Something else for austin to answer: On October 02 2012 02:32 austinmcc wrote: I don't like Mattchew for scum, he's my strongest town-read right now. I don't like gonzaw for scum atm, although it'll take more time to figure that one out. I don't like me for scum, because I'm not. So those posts are out.
Care to give some reasoning for those reads?
On Mattchew, it's a couple of his posts. In particular, this one: Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 00:40 Mattchew wrote:On October 01 2012 23:45 Drazerk wrote: If we don't lynch S+B my next target would probably be JH because I just hate the wounded survivor act but its not really telling of alignment. I would like you to completely drop S&B from your vocab until tomorrow and literally forget he is in the game. I think this will improve your play and allow you to look at the game better. I'd just mentioned not liking drazerk/snb being so focused on each other: Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 00:31 austinmcc wrote: Drazerk/snb very interested in each other. Both voting each other, in part, based on what seems to be "He should understand my play better." I don't want to lynch either of them today, and telling me that some other player should understand you better doesn't make me want to lynch that other guy. The votes feel entirely wasted. The fact that Mattchew was similarly critical gives me a townie feel. Drazerk's questions the last couple of pages have been good. I hope he would be playing the same way regardless of my comment or matt's comment, I don't think they influenced him, but he and snb being so focused on each other wasn't really helping town based on the reasoning they were providing. His iamperfection question to me felt townie. It's...an odd way to phrase something as scum? Like, you can just say "What is your read?" or "Would you vote iamperfection?" Instead he asks why I'm not voting with him, just an odd little bit of creativity. scumMatt from what I'm seen is either disinterested or...claims scum. Creative questions don't fit the bill for either of those. He's continued to pursue iamperfection, in a noticeably different way than the early voters that I've been critical of. Whereas ghost/nisani just left the thread, and iamperfection stayed focused on ghost, Mattchew has been actively commenting on other matters, has been asking questions to others, has been trying to get iamperfection lynched. It stands out so differently from behavior that I'm finding scummy in others.
The gonzaw read is weaker, but the way he returned to thread feels like he was being gonzaw-y. Spammy, finding lots of little stuff, talking about it. In particular, things like this: Show nested quote +On October 01 2012 05:19 gonzaw wrote:Am I the only one that found these 2 posts weird? On September 30 2012 14:32 Nisani201 wrote: ##Vote: Drazerk
I don't understand why he's still pushing against Keirathi. His plan was clearly poorly thought out, I see no scum motivation behind it. Drazerk is taking a newbie mistake and calling it scum play. On September 30 2012 22:22 JingleHell wrote:On September 30 2012 14:15 Drazerk wrote: I disagree the set up speculation would start again when all the Europeans wake up because your little idea was poorly managed. To me it just looks like a third party realizing they had done something silly and trying to back out of it before they are caught out without realizing their excuse puts even more focus on the stunt.
If you wanted to truly derail the thread from set up you would of kicked up a storm and not backed down for at least 24 hours. A 2 hour changeover where only mattchew posted anything significant isn't that. People seem to be missing this. The first time he said it, he had some options in there, but now Draz seems focused on "Third Party" for Keirathi... Not scum, but potentially third party (based on all that same speculation about setup)? You suggesting you know who IS scum, Drazerk? ##Vote Drazerk Both of them rarely posted before that, and came out of nowhere with a vote on Drazerk of all people. Then none of them stuck around discussing their read on Drazerk and just disappeared. First, let it be clear that I don't get the feeling both are scum (since I doubt both would act exactly the same way as scum), but it's a possibility if you guys want to discuss it. What I think of it is.....scummy and weird. I didn't see any of them invested in discussions, specially not in discussions concerning Keirathi and Drazerk. They just came, parked their vote on the "easy" target ("easy" in relative terms) and left. I see no town motivation at all in parking your vote and disappearing before discussing your reasoning with other people and waiting to see what others have to say. However, I could let Nisani pass, since he did minimally discuss his read of Drazerk later (it was 1 post, but at least it was something). Plus it's Nisani and I can see him acting like that as town. I like finding odd interactions or posts. This was one of those...interesting finds. Not necessarily scummy, but worth noting. He noted it, explained why he was interested, and then went further later in the post to vote JH after adding in some other stuff. I like that he pulled out a weird interaction, didn't completely disregard it, didn't blast anyone for it, but used it to look further at someone. He asked this Show nested quote +On October 01 2012 05:59 gonzaw wrote: At Keirathi: 1)Are you going to start scumhunting soon? which was a good question and something I was going to ask until I saw he'd already done so. He also comes off townie in the way he addresses mementoss here: Show nested quote +On October 01 2012 06:45 gonzaw wrote: I'd really like Mementos to tell us if his austin thing is getting anywhere and if he has anything else to say. Show nested quote +On October 01 2012 11:31 gonzaw wrote:On October 01 2012 10:51 Keirathi wrote: I would talk with you but I exhausted my major reads when you asked earlier, so I'll just make some quick comments:
s&b: hardcore lurking. I honestly expect more from him.
austin: weird flip-flop on me, and again not as active as I would expect
Mementoss: null. I'm curious what about him gives you a weird feeling? Your only mentions of him so far are in passing, or asking other people questions.
iamperfection: slight meta-based town read, despite his lurkiness.
The "weird" feeling I had about Mementos was that 1st post of his. His reasoning to vote austin didn't seem that good to me (although I don't really want to get into it right now), and it seemed he picked him out of nowhere. The worst thing is that that post of his made me think "wow, so it seems Mementos will be active and contribute" but he never followed up with anything later. Just how I found Jingle suspicious because Jingle FoSed Drazerk and then did absolutely nothing to push his read, I find Mementos suspicious for doing the same to austin. He parked his vote on him, then disappeared only to sporadically make irrelevant one-liners and completely forget about austin. It may be that he was having 2nd doubts on austin but was not really sure if he wanted to unvote him or not and thus kept his vote (which I guess is what happened with Jingle, and basically what happened with me some time ago), but there's almost no indication of that from him and that doesn't justify his lack of contributions since then As I read it, he's concerned with mementoss's post on me. Instead of straight-up saying that, or directly confronting mementoss, he just sort of asks this minor question. What are you doing with it now? It shows me that he's trying to piece things together, that he's actively thinking about alignments. He could have burst in with "this post makes me feel weird," but he doesn't, and dangling that question out without giving a full read comes of townie to me. 5. Finally votes keirathi!! But with only 45 minutes till lynch deadline.... Why?! WHY?! When he has clearly been on him and thought he was scum all day he waits till 45 minutes left to try and lynch him. I'll tell you why, because Iamperfection his teamate the godfather the jack of all trades glados was about to die. 6. Heres the cheery on top, Austin at the first of this quote says hes considering me active scum team. He spends the whole post on me, just defending himself. He never touches any scum motivation when writing about me. The purpose of this post was not to get people to think im scum, it was to put himself in the clear. At the end of his post he contradicts the start of his post and says im not getting a strong scum read on him. 7. Is aware he plays scummy on day 1, but has no motivation to change it. This is really just an excuse for acting scummy while being scum. Show nested quote +On October 03 2012 03:47 austinmcc wrote:On October 03 2012 03:11 strongandbig wrote: 5. I can't remember the last time Austin was scum, any help? Never been scum. I just always seem to look scummy D1. I gotta go now. But that is all I have. Austin has had some townie posts in his filter I will admit, but the strange way he goes about things makes me think he is scum. His contradictions that he doesn't think are contradictions make me think he is scum.
I think the chunks I left might be worth building a case around. Bolded/underlined him pointing to a possible connection involving Gonzaw (and Mattchew, but for now, giving Matt BOTD for reasons already stated).
I think a lot of the rest of it is down to how you read it, and didn't find those chunks particularly noteworthy compared to what I left.
I don't think a scum Austin and a scum Gonzaw are at all mutually exclusive, and I'd lynch either at the moment on the current evidence, but I prefer Gonzaw just because one of his scumslips happened to be inflammatory comments directed at me, which will make it more gratifying.
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Ok, for anyone who just missed it... Gonzaw just thanked scum for shooting a "suspect" in Mementoss, even though I don't think he was anywhere near the top of most sane scumlists.
By that rationale, there's only two ways scum didn't shoot a "suspect", and that's if they shot one of their own, or nobody at all.
Just to add to the pile of reasons I prefer killing him before Austin. Plus, of course, he casually dismisses the possibility of Austin wanting Mementoss dead a bit ago.
On October 03 2012 11:08 gonzaw wrote:
It is entirely possible a scum austin would kill mementos to avoid the pressure and then say "I wouldn't do that as scum"....but really I haven't really seen that happen when non-vet-players are concerned (i.e if it was wbg or Ace or something I wouldn't just shrug it off).
Look, he says Austin probably wouldn't do that. But then, Austin doesn't have to when Gonzaw can do it for him.
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On October 03 2012 11:42 gonzaw wrote: Jingle, I just want you to answer me this:
You are willing to entertain the idea that 2 of the most active players, and most contributors (in a way) are scum but you won't entertain the idea that guys that didn't do shit on D1 or N1, where never around, didn't care about discussion or the lynch at all, and the only contribution they had was 1 post with a "list" of reads that were full of fluff aren't?
Entertain the idea please, at least so you pay attention to them. If you think they are town and me or austin scum then please state so
I don't think activity is even remotely alignment indicative, but generally, I think people who have near-modkill experiences every day of the game are less likely to be scum.
And at what point was I ambiguous about you and Austin being my favorite two lynch candidates right now? Pretty sure I made that abundantly clear. But then, you keep ignoring things you aren't actively working with in the thread, almost like you're only situationally interested, which is scum behavior.
Hey, didn't I mention that before?
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On October 03 2012 12:13 gonzaw wrote: lol it's Can't Believe all over again (replace talismania with iamperfection).
I don't see anything wrong with what I did, I can't lie and be "confident" on someone being scum when I'm not. I'll just ignore any "link" you guys think there is between me and iamperfection since it's not worth time arguing about (again, it will end up the same as Can't Believe and you guys are and will be grasping at straws).
On October 03 2012 02:26 gonzaw wrote:
This leaves me with 4 guys: Nisani, Mementos, Drazerk, S&B.
There's this little voice in the back of my mind that tells me "Drazerk and S&B are bussing each other to disrupt everything in the thread and cause shitstorms and then when one of them flips the other one plays the 'a confirmed scum wanted me dead therefore I'm town' card; just like that Toad-vs-VE feud from LI".
Yeah. How DARE we suggest possible connections between players?
Ignore it from everyone if you like, even I wasn't doing that, I was happy to take your questions if someone sane repeated them. So if I'm "bad town" what does that make you?
Remember, we don't make a case against you to convince you. Just everyone else. So a complete refusal to defend (rather than waiting to see if you actually need to) is just one more scummy thing to mention. Especially when it's kinda hypocritical.
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On October 04 2012 01:26 austinmcc wrote:Care to explain?
I'm operating under the assumption that he's a VI type role at this point. If we don't run out of scum with the people who are suspicious without seeming to beg for it, we can always kill him as a backup plan.
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On October 04 2012 02:38 Mattchew wrote:
Gonzaw - His posting displays his thought process and a ton of second guessing himself, i feel this is very very (if not impossible) to fake as scum when you actually have more information than town.
Who we should be lynching Jinglehell - tried to push me as scum based on my case on iamperf. I feel like this was more of an attempt to discredit me and the case I made than an actual push on me. Also, he gets really mad at gonzaw. He also is proven to be actively lurking on multiple occasions now
Huh? So Gonzaw is not that scummy for behavior that people have bitched at me about some in this game? Not directly, but that was kind of the impression I got from some of the commentary on my posts.
On October 04 2012 02:56 gonzaw wrote:
I don't think Jingle would be this aggressive and "active" as scum. He's all over the place and is making such "obvious" mistakes (going against you for shitty reasons, then tunneling me all freaking game, etc) that I doubt he'd willingly make those actions as scum. He seems much more like overconfident townie that "already figured the scum team out" and doesn't care about anything else but his ego. I don't think his attitude and activity is something he'd fake as scum.
Remember that at some points he was just posting and posting and posting and posting. That'd take A LOT of trouble as scum to fake, specially if it doesn't seem to further any real scum agenda other than "keep shitting on gonzaw/Mattchew", which like I said isn't really a good scum agenda anyways.
Gonzaw, still trying to discredit anything I say, even though I'm not even close to the only person who saw it, still making personal attacks, and seems really damn confident in my townieness.
On October 04 2012 03:09 austinmcc wrote:
I am 100% certain JH is town. Short of me getting an unframeable DT check on him or something and him claiming scum in thread, I'm not willing to vote him.
Austin is also scarily confident in town reading. We really need to be lynching one of these two today.
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Sorry I've been vanished, my kid's not feeling good. Are we seriously going to kill the guy it's easy to attack over Gonzaw, who happens to be adding role fishing to the giant list of reasons to kill him?
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On October 05 2012 02:34 Drazerk wrote: ok Gonzaw's gone ignore all his posts on Nisani and follow me on lynching S+B
This almost makes me feel bad for my original vote on you, except you're aiming for SNB over Gonzaw. Although SNB would probably be third on my list after Gonzaw and Austin, just because I remember him being a bit more assertive when I've seen him.
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On October 05 2012 02:39 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2012 02:35 JingleHell wrote:On October 05 2012 02:34 Drazerk wrote: ok Gonzaw's gone ignore all his posts on Nisani and follow me on lynching S+B This almost makes me feel bad for my original vote on you, except you're aiming for SNB over Gonzaw. Although SNB would probably be third on my list after Gonzaw and Austin, just because I remember him being a bit more assertive when I've seen him. So you think s&b made it all up? What about my point about the p-body smurf in the caller game before roles went out?
I think that sort of speculation is absurd from every angle. I'd certainly rather see SNB than Nisani, so actually, since people aren't listening on Gonzaw yet...
##Unvote ##Vote Strongandbig
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