As for Zelblade, I'm going to quote him several times, but not name the game. Each series of quotes will be from the same game.
It's the job of the reader to guess which set of quotes he fits most similarly to in this game.
Game 1:
+ Show Spoiler +zelblade wrote: Hi guys :D
First off, I'll be all for lynching a lurker today assuming we cant find a better targert. We probably could do better though, so lets start hunting some scum.
I find Risen's "case" on ET to be bad. Whilst ET was being fluffy in his first couple of posts (which is rather normal on the start of day 1 considering there is little to analyze), I dont really see how ET is kicking up dirt or how a smiley face or 2 is scummy. Its weak, and based off nothing much though.
The question here is if Risen is being dense on purpose. I dont think he is for now... Although I dont like his case, he could easily be a bad townie, and I feel that scum (esp considering that hes relatively new) wouldnt be this agressive early.
zelblade wrote:Giving my thoughts on the lynch candidates proposed so far. My preferred lynch for today would actually be Tunkeg. He first starts off the day with his "random lynch", as well as a spreadsheet detailing the "scores" of everyone, and by extension, how "good" they supposedly are. Although he claims that his aim with this was to generate discussion, the content of the generated discussion, in my opinion, does not help town at all. Looking at the next couple of pages after his post, one will notice that what this has mostly done is do an excellent job of distracting town, instead getting most players to comment on how wrong his list is and agure what exactly a W/L ratio is. I personally dont feel that his list has managed to do anything in terms of scumhuting, and has actually distracted us from doing so. Another thing that I dont like is how he tries to return to the topic of the spreadsheet (this time discussing how town has been the suck these past couple of games) here: + Show Spoiler +Also some more funny statistics from my list. Town is 6-14-1 (tie) in 2012 (including Game of Thrones). For the last 15!!! games town is 2-13. Why, well I'd say because players suck at reading the game (I am pretty sucky at this as well). But at least I don't just vote on anyone who have an idea that isn't to my liking. The ones voting for me now are the ones who makes town lose every game, they don't have a clue whats scummy and whats not... Note that here town has actually moved on from his spreadsheet and most are busy scumhunting trying to figure out our lynch targert for today. Instead, Tunkeg brings up another random statistic to distract the town. Who gives a shit about town's win ratios right now? I dont see a good reason to actually bring up this topic since it does nothing to help find scum, and if anything it helps discourages townies due to how hard it supposedly is for town to win. Grackoni also brings up an excellent point that his defense of ST was really wierd. He was supposedly calling out BH for attacking easy targerts, such as sput as hes new, yet completely ignore BH's vote on fourface. Fourface is the easiest targert due to the fact that he appears to be trolling on purpose - yet Tunkeg doesnt actually attack him for it, instead only attacking the fact that BH was pressuring sput, which honestly wasnt bad since sput was lurking and it would have helped us get a better read on him. I see no reason for Tunkeg to call out BH for attacking sput, yet completely ignore the vote on fourface. Seems to be here that Tunkeg appears to have panicked and slipped after seeing his scumbuddy get accused. As such, this is why I believe that Tunkeg is scum. He has managed to waste a boatload of town's time discussing the vitrues of his so-called random lynch and why Jackal is bad, and his sput defense just doesnt click well with me. ##vote: Tunkeg
Another candidate that I have considered voting for is sputik.theory. His filter is really short, and he hasnt actually tried to scumhunt at all. Granted, hes new at this, but I find it hard to believe that hes posting so little considering how excited he seemed to be at the start of the game. Im suspicious of him as of now, but am not really sure due to the fact that it might actually be newbness more than anything else. The thing with Tunkeg obviously doesnt make him look too good in my eyes either of course. I would be willing to vote for sput in order to secure a lynch, but would much prefer Tunkeg.
Regarding Jannan, I personally dont find his opening post that scummy. Whilst stating ones newbness is bad, I would only find it bad if he contiuned to emphasise it repeatedly, using it as a defense against any attacks on his bad play. As ET has said, I dont really find his gonzaw's 3rd and 4th points to be an indication of scum. Whilst his "buddying" to VE doesnt look good, but I dont find it that scummy to warrant a lynch on him today. What I dont really like is his case of Jitsu. It seems poorly thought out, though that could be because WBG was pressuring him for an answer. What I really want to see is Jannan's thoughts on the game right now, and a proper case on Jitsu if possible. I feel that he is null at the moment, but would really want to see more contributions from him. I would rather not lynch him today. zelblade wrote: Besides the current lynch candidates, I am also suspicious of both VE and BH.
I feel that Visceraeyes hasnt really been pulling his weight this game. In sum of all fears, his tone appeared to be more agressive, and he would constantly pressure people. However, this game I dont feel the same agressiveness from him, and instead feel that he is a lot more mild and timid of sorts compared to last game. I also dont like how he has constantly tried to push Risen who I feel is townie. Ill be keeping a close watch on VE.
For blzinghand, I dont like how quiet he has been this game. In both Aperture and Sum of all fears where he was town, he took an active role in hunting scum, constantly pressuring people, and not negotiating with terrorists. However, all he has done this game is vote fourface for being fourface and pressure sput a little, and honestly it doesnt look much like his town play. This could be because he is busy with Easter and stuff, so I am willing to give him some time to step up. If he doesnt however, I would be more than willing to lynch him tomorrow. zelblade wrote: The reason for my lurkiness and "willingness to hide under the radar" is due to me simply being overloaded with schoolwork these couple of days. Thankfully my schedule ahead seems pretty clear so should be able to post more.
First off regarding the Toad/VE/WBG thing today.
I find Toad's case on VE to be bad. Honestly, I fully agree with him that Toad being "confirmed" is complete bullcrap. Its the most flimsy logic I have seen, and I completely do not agree with it. VE has pointed out why the night kills doesnt come remotely close to explaining why he considers himself "confirmed", and is so heavily based on wifom. Honestly, it was pretty unlikely last night for medics to actually listen to Toad last night, considering that VE and WBG had more thread presence as opposed to him. Jackal didnt exactly look too townie either, and I dont see why this "confirms" him.
His 2nd point honestly doesnt mean much to me either. First off its completely based off an assumption that hassy is mafia. Whilst this is a certainly likely case, I dont like how hes basing his townieness on an unflipped player. It also makes no sense stating that VE avoided the case on purpose, and only jumped on when the two of you (toad/wbg) went onto him. Honestly if anything, I feel this makes Toad look a lot scummier. Toad had been constantly proclaiming that Hassy is scummy, yet does not bother to push a hassy lynch whatsoever? I dont see why he had to wait for bugs to proclaim that hassy was scummy. Couldnt he simpy present his case, attmept to get support for it, and switch back to jannan or whoever if it failed to garner votes? I fail to see how he can apply this sort of reasoning onto VE, yet completely ignore the fact that it applies to him too - in fact, if he announced it 6 hours beforehand, why the hell didnt he give it a go?
Toad's logic I find to be really bad, and honesrly him being confirmed is a hugeeeeee stretch to say the least.
Reaching the main part of the actual case, his actual case on VE is as follows. - Said that Toad/Hassy looked bad, yet voted Jannan. - VE supposedly thought Toad was "unreadable"
I personally feel that VE has suffeicently explained his supposed scummy actions in his defense earlier. VE seems to be genuienly annoyed at the situation, and I find Toad's case and selfproclamation of his townieness to be absolute bullshit. Which is why im not going to support a VE lynch today.
Which brings us to Toad. Honestly I thought his posting was alright during day 1, and felt that the primary reason a large portion of his posts seemed to be about himself was due to the fact that gonzaw was tunneling the hell out of him, which is why I didnt mention him earlier, as I felt no reason to give out a town read at that point when he wasnt even close to getting lynched. However, what I seriously do not like about him is this case of his. Its so dammed bad imo, and hes stretching so hard to look townie with his claims of "confirmed town". I am still rather undecided if hes just being bad with his logic, or if hes scum trying to push a misclynch. Im personally leaning scum at this point, will look at his meta after dinner and decide from there.
My major suspision from here is actually on bugs. I have already mentioned why I feel the case is horribad, and I find it wierd as fuck that bugs decided to just jump on it, and call VE scum even though he had been hard defending VE earlier in the night, saying that he was most probably town. What changed that? The primary thing was that no "vets" (besides Jackal but hes not in this love triangle so lets forget him for a moment) had died, and that both VE and WBG were still alive.
It makes 0 sense to simply assume that VE is scum based off that - why does he even feel that way? Scum not shooting the "vets" actually seems like a pretty excellent move at this point - look at the amount of fucking WIFOM it has created. I refuse to believe that bugs would actually swallow this crap, which is why I believe he is scum.
Of course this also applies to most of the people that have jumped on the wagon so quickly, but I feel that we ought to resolve this crap today. We need to clear out this problem now, and its highly likely theres at least one scum in the three of them. One thing at a time, and for now town's pirority should be on this thing. Of course lurkers are going to be a problem, and im relatively most of them are coasting through the game, pussying out and going to lynch one of them, even if said lurker flips scum, is going to put us in a similar position as today, doubting VE,toad and WBG. Settling this crap RIGHT NOW is a pirority for town, and I am not going to support any lynch other than one of these three.
Im heading out for dinner now, my vote will be placed soon. I strongly feel bugs is scum at the moment, and want a lynch of him. Toad doesnt actually seem like a bad lynch considering how bad his logic has been, but I need to take a look at his meta and see if he does this kind of shit usually.
zelblade wrote: I agree that johnnywup is suspicious. But can we please focus on getting the whole VE/WBG/Toad thing settled first? I am fine with discussion on scummy people, since limiting discussion to just this incident is bad, but can we please stop trying to push the lynch today somewhere else?
zelblade wrote: Forgot.
##vote: Toad
VE what are your thoughts on WBG? I find the way he sheeped Toad's case on you pretty sketchy. zelblade wrote:Show nested quote +ghost_403 wrote: Would you look at that? Overnight, the town has become all quiet and helpful! :D
@prplhz: I'm happy with an Artanis lynch. That guy has been lurking like none other.
@zealos: Assuming you're right (that VE is scum), there are five more scum out there. Name one of them, and tell me why I should be lynching them. Gonzaw + VE + Toad + Bugs sleeping ftw! So I come back to the thread from school & sleep and it seems that VE has decided to claim Detective randomly for no bloody reason when there are goddammed sanities in play. This feels so f^$&!@ing retarded and I have no idea why the fuck he did so. I dont see why a town VE would claim at this point when the lynch was still split rather evenly (I think) WHEN HIS SANITY IS UNCLEAR WTF. The fckin problem is that it makes even less sense for mafia to claim cop in this setup at this point. Screw this shit -.- And than the thread goes into flipout mode. And than Toades decides to claim too - and as a Veteran. As said asking for medic prot when ones a vet makes approx 0 sense, since the chances of toad getting doublestacked last night was close to none in the first place. So why the fuck ask for medic prot? His reason makes no sense to me wtf and he even admits that he had no thread presence n1, and that medics wouldnt listen to his "protect Jackal" plea which shows that even he knows that his reason for "confirmed" is dumb as hell. I have no goddammed idea if this two claims are actually true. Both are so goddamed bad, and yes this feud is stupid as shit.
Game 2:
+ Show Spoiler +On June 05 2012 12:02 zelblade wrote: Claiming miller when self-aware is definately something that should be done no? Furekip, how does it hurt town for us to know that he is a miller and not waste any DT checks we might have on him? Do you really think that scum is going to risk a possible counterclaim claiming miller at the very first post like that? (I am not really certain how this setup generator works but I dont think that there can be 2 millers?)
Naturally this doesnt mean that VE is clear from any suspision - Its still a possible play for mafia.
And lynching based on "scumslips" alone is generally not a good idea as artansis pointed out. More often than not these "scumslips" are made by townies. Trust me when I say I know this because I "slipped" (as a VT) by saying "to town" in my first game.
On June 05 2012 12:08 zelblade wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 11:15 Hyaach wrote: I would let VE live for a day unless something really scummy comes out from his play.
it takes huge balls on claim this early, be it fake/real and its not a fool proof plan imo mafia or town.
Besides, from his claim, i would put all his analysis on a magnifying glass to be dismembered and examined piece by piece. Why would it take "huge balls" to claim if he is town? Why would you let him live for only "a day"? Why would you put his analysis specifically to be dismembered and examined just because his is immune to checks? Does this mean you think this claim is suspicious? On June 06 2012 22:21 zelblade wrote:Apologies for the splotchy activity have been a little busy of late. Either way I would be perfectly fine with a Pandain lynch. The blueslip feels exteremely fake to me. Slipping like that is akin to making a major scumslip... and one is more likely than not going to be more careful about leaking their role no? As pointed out, the random vig claim as well as the random mason discussion managed to severly derail the thread which reeks of scum. A couple more points is that he tries to dump suspision on me through a vauge statement. + Show Spoiler + I'm also very suspicious of Zellblade, as he's hardly posted at all. In fact, hilariously enough, he's just asked interogative questions. Which I find hilarious and will do one day.
Call it OMGUS if you will, but the combanation of his mispelling my name and calling me bad hurts my feelings =(So why are interogative questions suspicious? I found hyaach's post to be a little.... wierd so I questioned it. Why do you even bring me up if you dont intend to lynch me today? (Assuming this since he wants to lynch BH + he isnt even bothering to make a serious case) Town doesnt bring up every little suspision they have and put it out in the open, and this side comment looks alot like mafia attempting to derail the discussion onto me. Note that this is when pressure starts going onto him. ##vote: pandain On June 07 2012 17:48 zelblade wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 07 2012 09:40 Shraft wrote:I'm not that suspicious of Navillus anymore. All of my problems with him came from one post that I thought was loaded with scumminess, but I haven't been able to notice anything scummy about his subsequent posts. I've made the mistake of tunneling a player based off of one really scummy post before, and I am not going to do it again. Additionally, we now know that Pandain had a town read on him. I've got this gut feeling that at least part of the Mafia is lurking. They might have one active veteran player in VE/BH but I think that at least one (likely two) of them are skating by without posting much. My proposed lynch target for Day 2 is zelblade. My first issue with him are these questions: + Show Spoiler +On June 05 2012 12:08 zelblade wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 11:15 Hyaach wrote: I would let VE live for a day unless something really scummy comes out from his play.
it takes huge balls on claim this early, be it fake/real and its not a fool proof plan imo mafia or town.
Besides, from his claim, i would put all his analysis on a magnifying glass to be dismembered and examined piece by piece. Why would it take "huge balls" to claim if he is town? Why would you let him live for only "a day"? Why would you put his analysis specifically to be dismembered and examined just because his is immune to checks? Does this mean you think this claim is suspicious? On June 05 2012 15:54 zelblade wrote: How does claiming miller paint a targert on his head if hes town when its an anti-town role.
And you didnt answer this: Why did you state that you are going to let him leave for only "a day?" On June 05 2012 16:46 zelblade wrote: Eh wait what did you mean by "paint a targert on his head"
It generally means a targert for scum to shoot (thats what I thought you said) but did you mean a targert to be lynched instead? They make him appear pro town, when in reality he doesn't really have to anything at all. They make it seem like he's contributing to the town even though he's not. I wouldn't have as much of an issue with them if it weren't for his lack of contributions to the town. (VE also poses a lot of questions, but he also brings new information to the table, makes his own cases, etc.) After this he returns after about 24 hours just to jump on the Pandain lynch with this post: On June 06 2012 22:21 zelblade wrote:Apologies for the splotchy activity have been a little busy of late. Either way I would be perfectly fine with a Pandain lynch. The blueslip feels exteremely fake to me. Slipping like that is akin to making a major scumslip... and one is more likely than not going to be more careful about leaking their role no? As pointed out, the random vig claim as well as the random mason discussion managed to severly derail the thread which reeks of scum. A couple more points is that he tries to dump suspision on me through a vauge statement. [1]+ Show Spoiler + I'm also very suspicious of Zellblade, as he's hardly posted at all. In fact, hilariously enough, he's just asked interogative questions. Which I find hilarious and will do one day.
Call it OMGUS if you will, but the combanation of his mispelling my name and calling me bad hurts my feelings =(So why are interogative questions suspicious? I found hyaach's post to be a little.... wierd so I questioned it. Why do you even bring me up if you dont intend to lynch me today? (Assuming this since he wants to lynch BH + he isnt even bothering to make a serious case) Town doesnt bring up every little suspision they have and put it out in the open, and this side comment looks alot like mafia attempting to derail the discussion onto me. Note that this is when pressure starts going onto him. [2]##vote: pandain - The part about the blue slip being akin to a major scum slip and the claim feeling fake is mostly insipid bullshit, and the part about him derailing the thread had already been taken up several times.
- This feels really much like scum trying to find scumminess in people they know are town. I mean "Why do you even bring me up if you dont intend to lynch me today?". Come on. His remark about "town not sharing their every suspicion" is also bullshit. I've seen players who like to share all their suspicions, and I've seen other people who make out plans to catch scum, not sharing any reads until they believe that they have fool-proof case on their target. Besides, even if your statement was true, that was not what Pandain was doing. He was not "sharing all his suspicions", he was merely stating that he found you suspicious. It doesn't really seem like at attempt at derailing the thread either. If he wanted to shift the attention towards something else, I believe he could've come up with something that works better than just "I find X suspicious".
Keep in mind that this is the only lenghty (it's lenghty compared to his other posts) post that zelblade has written, it contains only bullshit, and he does not take a firm stance on anything. He is just "fine with the Pandain lynch". His two most recent post about furerkip's scum slip (which furerkip has yet to explain, by the way) brings no new information either. Basically what I'm saying is that if zelblade doesn't do some quality posting during Day 2, we should lynch the fuck out of him. I dont see how me saying that the blueslip seemed fake is bullshit, when it seemed so forced. I cannot wrap my head around someone "slipping" like that, and thus thought it was fake, and thus thought he was fakeclaiming scum since doing that as town makes no sense. Basically I agreed with the pandain case and thought that he was most likely to flip scum on a couple of points, and I mention them in passing. So just because I dont bring up any new points means im scum? Really? As town I usually sheep cases that I find are good/likely to hit scum, might I ask, how is this suspicious to you? Also, "im fine with a pandain lynch" = I want to lynch pandain, I think hes scum and he needs to hang. Are you really going to nitpick over a small thing like phrasing? Me voting him means me making a stance on the issue. What does "firm" stance even mean? I guess its fine to accuse me if I try to shrink away from responsibility after the lynch, but am I doing that? On June 08 2012 19:59 zelblade wrote: Since snarfs asked here are my thoughts on ghost.
I dont think that ghost is scum for now. He has been making (what I feel are valid) accusations against both furekip and zentor. I am somewhat certain furekip is scum from the no. of mafia thing, and whilst it is possible, dont think that ghost would push furekip that early and dump some suspision on him when most of the thread felt he was probably town. Of course this read is a little weak due to furekip's alignment being in question in itself but I am quite certain that furekip will flip scum.
Regarding hyaach I found his first post coming off as a little off, which is primilarly why I questioned it. Might have been due to the fact the post was somewhat unclear, but I did find him saying that claiming miller (optimal move imo) took "balls" a littler wierd. Its wierd that he tries to push attention onto me + furekip when snarfs calls him out of lurking. I also highly doubt scum would RB him and its actually more likely that hyaach got JK'd.
On June 14 2012 18:47 zelblade wrote:This post shall be used for defending myself. + Show Spoiler +On June 12 2012 09:59 Blazinghand wrote:I'm here to talk about Zelblade. He's scum. My argument against him is mostly going to be analysis, but I'll talk about his meta as well. The two sources I'm using for his meta are LI, in which he was scum (link) and MTG Mini, in which he was town (link) to get a better understanding of how he plays. 1) Zelblade played D1 start to his scum meta.To get an idea of how Zelblade starts his scum games off, in LI he opened up with a bunch of questions and soft-defenses of town players (link)(link 2). This basically lets him make some minor contributions until he can find a safe wagon to hop on (link) but only after someone else, a townie, has made a case against that guy (link). He's not afraid to break ground with his vote, but he doesn't make any new cases. I'm not gonna talk about his D2 play from LI, because of the notorious 2-way bus that game-- our D2 was the opposite situation, where two players that weren't in his Scum QT where attacking each other. In his town play, Zelblade is different. As he goes into MTG, Zelblade is lurking but comes out swinging with a case against VE AND a case against NT (link). Also, as an aside, he seems utterly unafraid to lurk. He's apologetic about it, but he goes long periods of times, sometimes days, posting like once or twice in a 24 hour span with meh posts. He's admittedly a low-post-count player, but he doesn't put a lot of effort into "appearing" town when he's town. He'll disappear 20 hours, make a one-line post (link), then disappear for another 20 hours without contributing. When he comes back, he comes back with a read and a vote (link). So how does Zelblade play here? Well, he starts off asking weird questions (link) and making a soft defense based on setup that was inherently reasonable (link). Typical Scum Zelblade. And as soon as the heat picks up on Pandain, he hops right on board. To really contextualize his Pandain vote, let's check out how he responds to claims. 2. Zelblade voted Pandain like he does in scum meta.As town he distrusts weird claims: (link), especially ones without check crumbs (link) to back them up, and immediately calls out Zealos for a bad claim. Sounds like that informed his Pandain reaction, but when we see HOW he went about it, it's a lot more like his scum play than his town play. His reactions to Pandain's claim and Pandain's play D1 match his D1 scum play in LI almost perfectly. He calls out Pandain for diverting the discussion WHILE hiding behind other player's arguments (link): Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 22:21 zelblade wrote: Either way I would be perfectly fine with a Pandain lynch. The blueslip feels exteremely fake to me. Slipping like that is akin to making a major scumslip... and one is more likely than not going to be more careful about leaking their role no? As pointed out, the random vig claim as well as the random mason discussion managed to severly derail the thread which reeks of scum. A couple more points is that he tries to dump suspision on me through a vauge statement. JUST as he did in LI with his case and vote against Tunkeg AFTER ET made the initial case against Tunkeg (link)Show nested quote +On April 09 2012 21:54 zelblade wrote: Giving my thoughts on the lynch candidates proposed so far.
My preferred lynch for today would actually be Tunkeg. He first starts off the day with his "random lynch", as well as a spreadsheet detailing the "scores" of everyone, and by extension, how "good" they supposedly are. Although he claims that his aim with this was to generate discussion, the content of the generated discussion, in my opinion, does not help town at all. Looking at the next couple of pages after his post, one will notice that what this has mostly done is do an excellent job of distracting town, instead getting most players to comment on how wrong his list is and agure what exactly a W/L ratio is. I personally dont feel that his list has managed to do anything in terms of scumhuting, and has actually distracted us from doing so.
//snip//
As such, this is why I believe that Tunkeg is scum. He has managed to waste a boatload of town's time discussing the vitrues of his so-called random lynch and why Jackal is bad, and his sput defense just doesnt click well with me. This is how Zelblade operates as scum: he finds a townie who's already been pushed, usually for saying something irrelevant, but also talks about the D1 candidate "wasting town's time" or "diverting discussion" in addition to reciting main components of the case the others have. Contrast his town play in MTG when he votes to lynch MJ (link), in which he shoots down other cases and notably does not need to justify his case with talk about sidetracking the town, even though MJ WAS full of weird statements about consolidating evidence, jumping to conclusions, and odd vote justifications and non-justifications. He voted who he wanted lynched without fear and without worrying about repercussions. Show nested quote +On May 23 2012 00:00 zelblade wrote: Apparently I screwed up that quote tag -_-
Eh I just realised its pluarity lynch lol. I am considering if I should dump my vote on zealos and see if it gains any traction or onto one of the three leading candidates. Kind of a hard decision since I wouldnt mind all of them dying.
Mattchew is still being a pain in the ass, though his posts are starting to get understandable, and he actually has more content than say, mouldy jeb. Probably not the best lynch today, think hes town.
I still think nova is scummy. But mouldy more so. Agree with marv's case generally.
##vote: Mouldy Jeb
Also I am going to sleep soon (school) so I probably cant change my vote (deadline sucks for me as usual -_-). He talks about other players being scummy, but says this target is the most scummy. He does not waffle and waver. He doesn't justify his vote or ameliorate the hard edges his case with lip-flapping. His D1 vote on Pandain looks JUST LIKE his D1 LI vote, and nothing like his voting and case-making when he's scum. This is Zelblade trying to deflect attention and make up easy reasons to vote easy targets, just like when he was scum in LI. Section 3: Zelblades Reaction to Hyaach v BH is scummy regardless of MetaZalblade's D2 vote on me (link) and his D1 vote on Pandain, coupled with the accompanying cases, look exactly like his scum voting, and nothing like his town voting. In fact, he spent so much time talking about how much he was "bugged" that scum would make my roleclaim and how Hyaach, who had to be town if I was scum, gave him "scummy vibes" that I thought he was voting to lynch Hyaach, not me. Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 02:28 zelblade wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Well since no roleblocker is claiming and i cannot be around during the deadline I will be making my decision now. At the start of the day I believed that bh wasnt lying. Well until ghost brought up the meta changes that is. I can understand him wanting to change his playstyle.... But i think that he would have said something like "I'm going to try to be less agressive" pretend if that was the case no? A minor point of course. I am unsure about his reaction regarding pandain's claim. I definitely think him playing it off was possible, but I found this post wierd. On June 06 2012 11:18 Blazinghand wrote: dude you are aware there are like RBs and shit in this game Note the this is an instant reaction. Let's say someone claims a role that you have and it is exteremly unlikely there are two of the same role. Wouldt you stop for a little while and give it some thought about how you are going to react to what is very possibly a fakeclaim? I don't see why he would post this. By the way, this is before where bh claims he realized he slipped so.... It's not a cover up. What is really bugging me is this - why in the world would a scum bh claim vig? It makes no sense. He didn't know he was getting roleblocked, and doing so would force a 1-1 trade with hyaach at best. Onto hyaach, he has given me scum vibes at the start of the game. Not going to elaborate but his general posting and luckiness made me feel off about him. Claiming rb as scum makes sense, I already explained why somewhere in my filter, so this is a null tell. His jailkeeper claim is sketchy too. Exteremly convenient. The lack of a town rb claiming (not exsisting or simply not willing to claim?) weakens it quite a bit. I can see ehat he means when he says that he shot down every jk scinerio though. It's definitely possible that was faked. However, I'm actually inclined to believe this claim since my gut says so. His recent posting seem to have a fearless aura which makes me feel that he's town. I'm going to just go with bh I guess. ##unvote##vote: blazinghand Look a tthis post and this vote. This isn't what a town player would do. If you were unsure, you would cast a vote for BH and say "yeah he looks scummier" and yeah, if you're gonna be afk for the rest of the day, you lay out your thoughts. But read this post and ask yourself-- is this how a town player writes a case, or how a scum player tries to duck responsibility and come out looking townie at the same time? In fact, this is not how Zelblade ends any of his vote posts as town-- he never feels the need to justify himself or fill himself full of doubts like this. He probably anticipated me not flipping Mafia and didn't want to look too bad on the wagon. Typical scum play. This doesn't look at all like MtG Zelblade. This looks like LI Zelblade. This looks like scum. Let's vote him, and not waste a lynch on the SK who wants to help town. ##vote: Zelblade First off your agurement is mostly meta but ok. I ask questions as well as "soft defend" people regardless of alignment, depending on what I feel like doing in that point of time. For instance, as scum in PYP I do not do so, and I did ask quite a few questions in MTG, and I am pretty sure that my first post on Tunkeg in that game counts as a "soft defense". I understand not wanting to use my scum meta from either LI or pyp which were both... oddball games, but basing such things on D1 only is a little inconclusive no? I dont really understand what you mean by not afraid to lurk when I have been doing so this game too. My periods of inactivity are due to me being busy with stuff. I also havent been trying to "appear" town, so I dont get what BH meant here. As you said, I as town distrust wierd claims, which also happens to be why I thought pandain's vig claim was utter and complete bullshit, as well as initially doubting hyaach's JK claim. Regarding the thing about justifying my vote, I play each game differently. Sometimes if I feel like it I type out a few lines to explain my vote, other times I just say "go read case X" The last part regarding my day 2 vote stuff. Hyaach gave me scummy vibes all through day 1, primilarly due to his first couple of posts which I felt were odd as well as a couple of other things. Which is also why at the start of day 2 I trusted blazinghand over hyaach - simply because I felt BH looked much better as opposed to hyaach. When hyaach's JK claim came, I was obviously suspicious of it due to the fact that it could be "confirmed" by using the mafia RB, as well as the fact that towns were unlikely to lynch claimed medics (which was, as he said, what he esentially was in this setup due to a lack of medics.) (Note that I am aware this isnt really the case in TL towns, but hyaach played somewhere else where this might have been the case, assumption here.) However, what made me doubt myself regarding my read on hyaach and BH was a couple of things. First off ghost's post on BH's meta made me realise that BH's posting as compared to his meta was pretty different, and there was something fishy with how he reacted to the claim (I did consider this earlier but thought that it was possible that he was hiding the fact that he was actually a vig, only later realising that his reaction was instant, which was actually pretty suspicious), as well as me rereading hyaach's filter. Hyaach's posting in d2 made me feel that he was more off an annoyed townie rather than scum. It was more of a gut feel of course. And yes I did think that 1 of BH or hyaach had to be scum. Because I didnt realise how SK interacted with being roleblocked till later on, and I didnt actually consider that possibility. The primary reason why I felt the need to I needed to "fill myself with doubt" was because I was extermely unsure. There were things that made both of you look town, as well as things that made you two look scum, and I took a fairly long time to decide which one of you is scum. I find your meta agurement here weak, since I havent exactly been put in a (what I thought) was a 1-1 trade situation as town, and in a spot where I felt extemely unsure between two candidates. + Show Spoiler +On June 14 2012 06:49 Snarfs wrote:On zelblade, there are two things that make me think that he's the best chance at hitting scum we have tomorrow (that have happened in this game, much of what blazinghand said in his case was meta and I think Artanis showed just how biased meta can be): The first one was the wishy washy post where he ends up voting blazinghand. BH and Artanis have discussed this already and I agree with them that there seemed to be quite a bit of cognitive dissonance between his thoughts and his vote. For reference, the post is here: [ click] The second thing I noticed when reading zelblade was his strange insistence that claiming that there are 4 mafia in the game was a reason to lynch furerkip. Zelblade's reasoning wasn't that furer had scumslipped, but rather that furer had claimed that something was in the OP when it wasn't. This misrepresents what furer said though as he doesn't claim anywhere that it says in the OP that there are 4 mafia.: First he tries to push the idea that furer claimed that it listed 4 mafia in the OP even though that's not what ghost says. ghost claims that "It could be an extrapolation, or it could be a scumslip". I personally don't think that scum would ever blatantly lie and believe that furer was guessing the number of scum based on the number of roles available. I find it very hard to believe that anyone actually thought he was saying that it literally says in the OP that there were 4 max scum: Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 22:49 zelblade wrote:On June 06 2012 22:40 ghost_403 wrote:The post that I had originally thought was most scummy from Furer was this one. I don't like the fact that he says he's going to back off on VE since no one is jumping on his bandwagon. However, upon further reflection, I think he did exactly what I would have done in the situation: state that he still thought VE was scummy and move on to doing something else. I don't think that he's nearly as scummy after giving it further thought. This post still bothers me a little: On June 05 2012 07:38 furerkip wrote: If you are wondering where I got 4 from, it's from the maximum amount of mafia as you can see on the 1st page. I've checked the first page, and it doesn't say how many scum are in the game. It could be an extrapolation, or it could be a scumslip. If he does flip scum, I would assume that there are either four scum total, or, more likely, three scum and a serial killer. I still don't like his stances on mislynches outside of LYLO, but that could be easily attributed to him learning to play outside of TL. tl;dr: I was wrong, and my read on him has gone from scum to null. Wait what? I took his word for it and didnt check the OP -_- I dont think that him claiming that there was 4 scum is scummy since its a somewhat plausible assumption and may be the norm where he plays, but him lying about it being in the op is just... Then, zelblade attempts to gain support from other players for a furer lynch. He hardly tries to pressure furer at all and is waiting for others to jump on the wagon first: Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 22:52 zelblade wrote: I am actually willing to lynch furekip based on that alone. As said, there is no townie reasoning possible to lie about something like that. Sure scumslips are usually made by townies but I dont think that they would lie about their reasoning like this. The only problem with this is that it is so dumb as mafia too -_-
So furekip why did you lie about it? He then continues to try and push furerkip for the next 3 days even though he has clearly disappeared from the game and would be perfect scum bait for a mislynch: Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 17:50 zelblade wrote: Also I want to lynch furekip if he doesnt give a good explanation for lying about the mafia team numbers thing. Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 11:13 zelblade wrote: Well at least this flip gives us quite a decent bit of info.
Furekip and bh should be our next 2 lynches. Thoughts? The first part I covered above. Regarding the second part, from furekips phrasing I think it is pretty clear that he said that the front page stated that there was 4 mafia, when it clearly didnt. I found it exceedingly odd primilarly because there is absoulutely no reason for any townie whatsoever to lie about it, whilst there is a least a probable scum reason to claim something like this (to cover a scumslip). Obviously this doesnt hold water anymore considering that we have 8 players and the game isnt over yet. On June 15 2012 00:01 zelblade wrote:I was suspicious of snarfs primilarly due to me feeling that his play as compared to pyp was different, though on reading up more of his town games it doesnt exactly seem too different from his town meta. However, knowing that I am town, I am relatively sure that there is at the very least 1 scum in the few people who quickvoted me today in hopes of starting a wagon. The most suspicious of the bunch I feel is artansis. He starts off the game with this post: + Show Spoiler +On June 05 2012 07:51 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Agreed, Blazinghand. Given furerkip's statement about how long VE's claim was, I decided to take a look at his previous claim in MTG Mafia to compare the length. Show nested quote +On May 27 2012 08:04 VisceraEyes wrote:Cool. I'll be brief. I want you to lynch me if you PROMISE TO LYNCH BUGS NEXT. Everyone seems to think either Bugs or I am scum or that we both are. As such, if you guys have a handle on this outside the two of us, I prefer you just get us out of the way first so whoever is left is confirmed whatever. Please guys, no one is going to listen to anything I say at this point and I'm just a distraction. Remove it. Also I'm the Doctor, so if you don't lynch one of me or Bugs, I'm dead tonight anyway. Gg guys, sorry I allowed Bugs to mindfuck me so hard this game. I had a null read on VE's claim at first because of the fact that both Millers and veteran mafia players should claim miller in a game where the miller is self aware, this does slightly push the case in favor of a mafia VE, but it's still a weak case. How VE will handle himself the rest of the game is going to be a lot more important. My concern however is that he shits up the thread regardless like he did in MTG Mafia where he tunneled WBG hard as town, and did the same as Toad as mafia, meaning that him tunneling someone isn't indicative of alignment. To be frank, I'm not sure how to read him. VE as a veteran is likely to get checked by a DT. By claiming early he prevents getting checked by a DT. We already know he would check red now regardless of whether he's lying or not, so a DT check is now useless. I disagree with a few of the things said in here. (1) I dont see why veteran mafia players "should" claim miller when it is a risky move since it would not only put said player under a ton of scrutiny, as well as the fact that a counterclaim = ve is fucked since it is exteremely unlikely for there to be 2 millers in a 13 player game. (2) If both veteran mafia players as well as millers ought to claim miller, why is this a factor that makes him lean slighty that VE is scum? I dont understand this point at all. This feels a lot like him dumping suspision on VE for no clear reason. + Show Spoiler +On June 09 2012 05:24 Artanis[Xp] wrote: This shit is confusing the fuck out of me and I don't have enough time to read things through thoroughly at this time. My initial read on Hyaach was that his early comments were too dumb to be mafia. His RB claim after BH claimed to be RBed also feels like it's not something a mafia would do. Either he's playing dumb, or he's telling the truth. I wasn't planning on killing BH today but with no day kills it feels like someone has to be lying. The thing with BH not instantly bussing Pandain after his claim doesn't work in his favor either. My gut says Blazinghand, and that's where my vote goes. ##Vote: Blazinghand On June 09 2012 20:20 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Okay, it seems that for Hyaach to be town there needs to be both a Town roleblocker and a Jailkeeper. For Blazinghand's claim, there just needs to be a vig and a mafia roleblocker. Going to go occam's razor on this. ##Unvote ##Vote: Hyaach I have a problem with this vote. First off lets analyze D2. Imagnie you are scum and you have 2 free mislynches lined up due to some crazy night actions. Blazinghand somehow survived your hit, but its prefectly fine. At this point you are probably thinking that BH got jailed, but who cares since town will lynch him and hyaach. You dont give a shit who gets lynched first, as long as one of them dies and flips town. However, hyaach comes along and claims JK. At this point, you realise that BH couldnt have been jailed, as two JKs are exteremly unlikely and hyaach has no reason to lie. You thus conclude that BH is SK. At this point, who would scum want to lynch? If they lynch hyaach, they get not only a JK, but also a very likely lynch on BH the next day. 2 lynches not on them bringing the game to Lylo. If they lynch BH, town will probably figure out that hyaach is innocent and piece together the informtion. Free mislynch gone. Artansis's reasoning for his switch to BH is exceedingly wierd. He initally bases his vote off gut. Fine. However, he switches his vote, to a wierd occam's razor crap. First off, in hyaach's scineario there needs to be a town rb, a JK and a mafia rb. Not all that unlikely. In BH's case, there needs to be a vig, a mafia roleblocker, as well as another JK or roleblocker to stop scum's (missing) night hit. This reasoning for the vote switch makes 0 sense, and it feels a lot like him attempting to shift the votes off onto hyaach - because that is a better lynch for scum. (all this not taking SK into account since we werent considering possibility of SK at that point in time) + Show Spoiler +On June 14 2012 07:39 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Can't say I saw that shot coming. I was expecting myself, Snarfs or Shraft to get shot. Guess they got a blue read on her somehow, or her reads were making sense. Regardless, zelblade's case is still the strongest by far to me. It was also made by Blazinghand whom was doing anything he could to stay alive and is as unaware of factions as we are, so his case can be seen as legit in that regard. It also raised some good points regarding his behavior. ##Vote: Zelblade Another post I have a huge problem with. Oh I may be biased and all since its regarding me but BH was definately trying to stay alive. Dont you think that he would attempt to stretch the case as best as he could - to make it look "better" than it was? You also posted this earlier in reply to BH's post: + Show Spoiler +On June 13 2012 03:46 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Blazinghand, I've been more than willing to discuss any cases which I have done plenty yesterday, as well as provide my own case on snarfs which you debunked well. Let me provide you with my interpretation of your case. Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 09:59 Blazinghand wrote:I'm here to talk about Zelblade. He's scum. My argument against him is mostly going to be analysis, but I'll talk about his meta as well. The two sources I'm using for his meta are LI, in which he was scum (link) and MTG Mini, in which he was town (link) to get a better understanding of how he plays. 1) Zelblade played D1 start to his scum meta.To get an idea of how Zelblade starts his scum games off, in LI he opened up with a bunch of questions and soft-defenses of town players (link)(link 2). This basically lets him make some minor contributions until he can find a safe wagon to hop on (link) but only after someone else, a townie, has made a case against that guy (link). He's not afraid to break ground with his vote, but he doesn't make any new cases. I'm not gonna talk about his D2 play from LI, because of the notorious 2-way bus that game-- our D2 was the opposite situation, where two players that weren't in his Scum QT where attacking each other. In his town play, Zelblade is different. As he goes into MTG, Zelblade is lurking but comes out swinging with a case against VE AND a case against NT (link). Also, as an aside, he seems utterly unafraid to lurk. He's apologetic about it, but he goes long periods of times, sometimes days, posting like once or twice in a 24 hour span with meh posts. He's admittedly a low-post-count player, but he doesn't put a lot of effort into "appearing" town when he's town. He'll disappear 20 hours, make a one-line post (link), then disappear for another 20 hours without contributing. When he comes back, he comes back with a read and a vote (link). I would hardly call that a case. It's two paragraphs. What you've posted right now is a case, what he posted in that post were some mild accusations. He's also asked a bunch of questions in MTG mafia. Three questions in a row: Show nested quote +On May 22 2012 17:49 zelblade wrote: By the way is there a voting thread. Because I dont see one and the OP states that there is one. Show nested quote +On May 22 2012 17:56 zelblade wrote: Hey marv who are you suspicious of at this point besides mattchew? Can you also clearly state why you think nova is town based off meta alone? Because I cant see it being similar. Show nested quote +On May 22 2012 18:05 zelblade wrote: Acid so what do you think of nova now? Why is marvellosity buddying with nova a scummy thing to do? And he had many more questions. The lurking behavior is a sketchy claim at best; he's been inactive as both scum and town, though I will give you that he does appear to put in more effort when he's scum. I also don't feel he's put a lot of effort in "appearing" town in this game. Can you pinpoint out the exact posts this game where you feel he tried to "appear town"? Show nested quote +So how does Zelblade play here? Well, he starts off asking weird questions (link) and making a soft defense based on setup that was inherently reasonable (link). Typical Scum Zelblade. And as soon as the heat picks up on Pandain, he hops right on board. To really contextualize his Pandain vote, let's check out how he responds to claims. I just showed how Zelblade asked questions in MTG mafia too, which means it complies with both his town and scum meta. He also hopped on the VE bandwagon in MTG mafia, and the Mouldy Jeb mafia earlier as well. You seem to find things that correspond with how he played scum and then completely negate to search for if he did these things as town too, which he has. Show nested quote +2. Zelblade voted Pandain like he does in scum meta.As town he distrusts weird claims: (link), especially ones without check crumbs (link) to back them up, and immediately calls out Zealos for a bad claim. Sounds like that informed his Pandain reaction, but when we see HOW he went about it, it's a lot more like his scum play than his town play. His reactions to Pandain's claim and Pandain's play D1 match his D1 scum play in LI almost perfectly. He calls out Pandain for diverting the discussion WHILE hiding behind other player's arguments (link): On June 06 2012 22:21 zelblade wrote: Either way I would be perfectly fine with a Pandain lynch. The blueslip feels exteremely fake to me. Slipping like that is akin to making a major scumslip... and one is more likely than not going to be more careful about leaking their role no? As pointed out, the random vig claim as well as the random mason discussion managed to severly derail the thread which reeks of scum. A couple more points is that he tries to dump suspision on me through a vauge statement. JUST as he did in LI with his case and vote against Tunkeg AFTER ET made the initial case against Tunkeg (link)On April 09 2012 21:54 zelblade wrote: Giving my thoughts on the lynch candidates proposed so far.
My preferred lynch for today would actually be Tunkeg. He first starts off the day with his "random lynch", as well as a spreadsheet detailing the "scores" of everyone, and by extension, how "good" they supposedly are. Although he claims that his aim with this was to generate discussion, the content of the generated discussion, in my opinion, does not help town at all. Looking at the next couple of pages after his post, one will notice that what this has mostly done is do an excellent job of distracting town, instead getting most players to comment on how wrong his list is and agure what exactly a W/L ratio is. I personally dont feel that his list has managed to do anything in terms of scumhuting, and has actually distracted us from doing so.
//snip//
As such, this is why I believe that Tunkeg is scum. He has managed to waste a boatload of town's time discussing the vitrues of his so-called random lynch and why Jackal is bad, and his sput defense just doesnt click well with me. This is how Zelblade operates as scum: he finds a townie who's already been pushed, usually for saying something irrelevant, but also talks about the D1 candidate "wasting town's time" or "diverting discussion" in addition to reciting main components of the case the others have. What I'm seeing in these two different threads (one as mafia, one as town), the main difference I see is how much Zelblade tries to put in effort when he's scum to look town. Zelblade has jumped on bandwagons both as town and as scum though, so bandwagoning Pandain is not something that points to Zelblade being scum. The second part holds more water, but isn't enough for me to consider him mafia. Show nested quote +Contrast his town play in MTG when he votes to lynch MJ (link), in which he shoots down other cases and notably does not need to justify his case with talk about sidetracking the town, even though MJ WAS full of weird statements about consolidating evidence, jumping to conclusions, and odd vote justifications and non-justifications. He voted who he wanted lynched without fear and without worrying about repercussions. On May 23 2012 00:00 zelblade wrote: Apparently I screwed up that quote tag -_-
Eh I just realised its pluarity lynch lol. I am considering if I should dump my vote on zealos and see if it gains any traction or onto one of the three leading candidates. Kind of a hard decision since I wouldnt mind all of them dying.
Mattchew is still being a pain in the ass, though his posts are starting to get understandable, and he actually has more content than say, mouldy jeb. Probably not the best lynch today, think hes town.
I still think nova is scummy. But mouldy more so. Agree with marv's case generally.
##vote: Mouldy Jeb
Also I am going to sleep soon (school) so I probably cant change my vote (deadline sucks for me as usual -_-). He talks about other players being scummy, but says this target is the most scummy. He does not waffle and waver. He doesn't justify his vote or ameliorate the hard edges his case with lip-flapping. His D1 vote on Pandain looks JUST LIKE his D1 LI vote, and nothing like his voting and case-making when he's scum. This is Zelblade trying to deflect attention and make up easy reasons to vote easy targets, just like when he was scum in LI. Wait, isn't he just talking about his case in both the previous two posts? It seems he pays more attention to making cases when he's scum rather than when he's town, where he talked more about the other suspects in the quoted posts. Show nested quote +Section 3: Zelblades Reaction to Hyaach v BH is scummy regardless of MetaZalblade's D2 vote on me (link) and his D1 vote on Pandain, coupled with the accompanying cases, look exactly like his scum voting, and nothing like his town voting. In fact, he spent so much time talking about how much he was "bugged" that scum would make my roleclaim and how Hyaach, who had to be town if I was scum, gave him "scummy vibes" that I thought he was voting to lynch Hyaach, not me. Hey look, we have an actual argument. I like this point. I just searched zelblade's history on MTG mafia and saw him post nothing of the sort. Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 02:28 zelblade wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Well since no roleblocker is claiming and i cannot be around during the deadline I will be making my decision now. At the start of the day I believed that bh wasnt lying. Well until ghost brought up the meta changes that is. I can understand him wanting to change his playstyle.... But i think that he would have said something like "I'm going to try to be less agressive" pretend if that was the case no? A minor point of course. I am unsure about his reaction regarding pandain's claim. I definitely think him playing it off was possible, but I found this post wierd. On June 06 2012 11:18 Blazinghand wrote: dude you are aware there are like RBs and shit in this game Note the this is an instant reaction. Let's say someone claims a role that you have and it is exteremly unlikely there are two of the same role. Wouldt you stop for a little while and give it some thought about how you are going to react to what is very possibly a fakeclaim? I don't see why he would post this. By the way, this is before where bh claims he realized he slipped so.... It's not a cover up. What is really bugging me is this - why in the world would a scum bh claim vig? It makes no sense. He didn't know he was getting roleblocked, and doing so would force a 1-1 trade with hyaach at best. Onto hyaach, he has given me scum vibes at the start of the game. Not going to elaborate but his general posting and luckiness made me feel off about him. Claiming rb as scum makes sense, I already explained why somewhere in my filter, so this is a null tell. His jailkeeper claim is sketchy too. Exteremly convenient. The lack of a town rb claiming (not exsisting or simply not willing to claim?) weakens it quite a bit. I can see ehat he means when he says that he shot down every jk scinerio though. It's definitely possible that was faked. However, I'm actually inclined to believe this claim since my gut says so. His recent posting seem to have a fearless aura which makes me feel that he's town. I'm going to just go with bh I guess. ##unvote##vote: blazinghand Look a tthis post and this vote. This isn't what a town player would do. If you were unsure, you would cast a vote for BH and say "yeah he looks scummier" and yeah, if you're gonna be afk for the rest of the day, you lay out your thoughts. But read this post and ask yourself-- is this how a town player writes a case, or how a scum player tries to duck responsibility and come out looking townie at the same time? In fact, this is not how Zelblade ends any of his vote posts as town-- he never feels the need to justify himself or fill himself full of doubts like this. He probably anticipated me not flipping Mafia and didn't want to look too bad on the wagon. Typical scum play. This doesn't look at all like MtG Zelblade. This looks like LI Zelblade. This looks like scum. Let's vote him, and not waste a lynch on the SK who wants to help town. I don't like how his vote looks either. Yet I have seen many vote like this and still flip up town. However, this point coupled with him talking more about scummy vibes this game than his town game do give me the impression that Zelblade is red, where the first two points were more null. I might change my vote, I'm not sure yet. Giving some examples in this game where he tries to "appear" green would be helpful. In here, you say that the points against me are weak. You even defend me from most of his points, stating that his meta analysis of me was not really accurate, and only a small portion of the case held water. So I am the strongest case? No, from this I highly doubt that this would be your opinion. If you were town. ##vote: Artanis[Xp]Oh and another thing: Guess who was roleblocked n2? Wifom, sure, and whilst it is entirely possible that scum and BH stacked on VE, the other possibility that katina roleblocking him stopped the night kill exsists. It is already somewhere in my filter why scum would claim getting rb'd.
Game 3:
+ Show Spoiler +On May 21 2012 20:21 zelblade wrote: Why is it, might I ask, a pro-town play? Last I checked it doesnt friggin matter if your methods work if youre being totally distruptive, which means no one is going to listen to you even if you get x/x scum correct.
For example in LI Tunkeg decided to post a list about how "good" people were judging by the number of games they have played, and suggested a lynch on Jackal because he was supposedly the worst player in the game according to statistics. I am going to assume this is what he meant to with that that game was simply to draw out reactions, and it didnt work so well, simply due to the fact that that list managed to throw off the thread into a lovely discussion (for scum anyway) about how his way of judging supposed skill level was inaccurate and stuff, how he should change the formula blabla, and basically with a few attacks on his play here and there, he had a decent portion of town thinking he was scum.
I will assume that one would easily see why he would think his stratergy isnt exactly the best when it causes him to nearly get mislynched day 1. Also being able to finger every single scum is great, sure, but would you trust his reads if he shits up the thread?
That being said, how is trying out a new style scummy, might I ask? Sure, it could be scum saying that as a preemptive excuse for different meta, but it could easily be town trying to play better as well. I find it somewhat suspicious that you decided to nitpick on such a thing - considering it isnt all that rare for players to want to try out a new style of play once in a while.
And yea Acrofales was pretty obviously joking around a little with the stats and some other stuff. On May 22 2012 17:44 zelblade wrote: About my lack of activity: I was quite busy yesterday. I'll probably be more active today.
I hate people who post with self-imposed restrictions. Of course this doesnt apply when people are actually able to remain clear - Foolishness in Aperture for instance. However, when it gets plain irritating and difficult to infer (maybe its bad reading comprehension but w/e) its a complete pain in the ass. What this obviously means is that I dont like Mattchew and want to lynch him. Yes its a policy lynch but I dont care.
Nova's posting is horrible, I agree. So he votes VE because VE is supposedly a bitch to play with and because hes a vet. As pointed out, terribad logic. But of course its a first vote, and its day one, probable joke vote, so lets just let that slide. A little more of bad logic on the Tunkeg point - if you really believe people are going to follow you reads AFTER they mislynch you for being disruptive.... okay. And town doesnt neccessarily have to be "sure" unless you are a mafia god/hacker who never doubts his reads. The philospohy of "Guilty until proven innocent" is useful but that doesnt mean that you can lynch everyone day 1 because you feel they havent proved their innocence day 1 enough wtf. Since I dont feel like going through the rest of it ill stop here.
I agree with VE that this lynch just seems so... easy? His actions are pretty disruptive though, and Im fine with killing him for the continious pushing of bad logic.
Im fine with either of this two today On May 22 2012 19:32 zelblade wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2012 18:18 Nova_Terra wrote: Furthermore what about my logic is bad aside from the tunkeg thing, which, may i add, was very unclear as the time as the way he had made it seem was where he had really good scumhunting but everyone liked to lynch him because of the type of scumhunting. Eh it was pretty clear to me at least, but w/e. Quite a few things regarding the bad logic part, but some of those could be personal opinion. I also said the sentence about guilty until proven innocent because you attack wbg based on this: Show nested quote +On May 22 2012 04:49 Nova_Terra wrote: I follow guilty until proven innocent WBG only posted general advice which shouldnt count for crap, defense of said general advice, and half omgus
It *looks* like you are attacking WBG because he hasnt done much to prove that he is town as you say, but considering that quite a few people (including myself) havent exactly done much at that time, it looks like you are willing to lynch a large portion of town in the first part of D1 for not sufficently proving their innocence. Perhpas I misinterpreted. On May 22 2012 21:22 zelblade wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2012 21:08 marvellosity wrote:On May 22 2012 19:32 zelblade wrote:Also marv Hey marv who are you suspicious of at this point besides mattchew? Can you also clearly state why you think nova is town based off meta alone? Because I cant see it being similar. How is it different from LIV? Quite a few posts but generally not a lot of content, no? For now I'm going to answer 'who I'm suspicious of' as 'who I'd like to be dead'. So other than Matt, Nova, Acid, and to a lesser extent Jeb. So you think nova is town yet you want to kill him? On May 23 2012 00:00 zelblade wrote: Apparently I screwed up that quote tag -_-
Eh I just realised its pluarity lynch lol. I am considering if I should dump my vote on zealos and see if it gains any traction or onto one of the three leading candidates. Kind of a hard decision since I wouldnt mind all of them dying.
Mattchew is still being a pain in the ass, though his posts are starting to get understandable, and he actually has more content than say, mouldy jeb. Probably not the best lynch today, think hes town.
I still think nova is scummy. But mouldy more so. Agree with marv's case generally.
##vote: Mouldy Jeb
Also I am going to sleep soon (school) so I probably cant change my vote (deadline sucks for me as usual -_-). On May 25 2012 14:46 zelblade wrote: Alright did a reread.
I agree with a zealos lynch, for various reasons. I highly doubt a town zealos would lynch a "bad town" read, and presenting suspects after the lynch whilst supposedly having no strong reads during the day before the lynch is highly suspect.
##vote: Zealos
Another targert of intrest is Tunkeg. I already mentioned that I dont think that wanting to change one's meta is scummy, since players regardless of alignment might want to try out new styles of play. One point against him is that he didnt post that post before the game, but that is a minor factor to what I feel about his posting. He seems to emphasise that posting lists and reads gives "accountability", when in reality, it does nothing. How does knowing his reads, especially considering they are weak D1 reads which could easily be backpeddalled on, help town in anyway whatsoever? I have no idea what he means by accountability, considering townies can and will change their opinions overtime, and we do not need to know this. Notice how he also says that knowing his reads will help when someone is making a case on him. Wut? Why would a townie ever post something like that?
Lets lynch Tunkeg tomorrow after we get rid of zealos.
VE is also being VE as usual. On May 25 2012 22:23 zelblade wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2012 22:18 froggynoddy wrote: Well I'm not sure what to make of the Zealos vs Zelblade thing. The zealos lynch looks awfully similar to the Mouldy mislych, but I think Zealos seems scummier. I feel uncomfortable with the concept 'we should pick one of two' as it leaves the lynch even more open to scum control, in fact I'm going to go and check who said that as that seems like something hugely anti-town. Consolidating a lynch in the last 12 hours is one thing, but narrowing conversation on two players in first 24hours of the game is just plain awful for town.
I still think N_T and Katina are most likely to flip scum. Katina, lurking Day 1 is almost viable townie strat, Day 1 and Day 2... Get constructive.
##Unvote ##Vote Katina How is limiting the lynch to 2 players a bad thing? You realise if everyone went voting for their "strongest" read, it causes the votes to most likely be spread out over a large amount of players, leading to scum being able to easily manipulate the lynch due to the probably low amount of votes required. Also I dont see where anyone said we have to pick one of the two. If you preferred to lynch someone else its on you to actually go and push the person yourself. Since you ignored Tunkeg, what are your thoughts on him? On May 26 2012 01:56 zelblade wrote: My vote is sticking on zealos unless he comes up with a very good reason for his check, or a breadcrumb of his check (not role since that is so much easier to fake) within a while since I need to go and sleep and cannot be around at the deadline.
Game 4:
+ Show Spoiler +On February 29 2012 15:40 zelblade wrote: @Gum
1) Stop basing your agurments on wifom. And just because jannnan happens to be town doesnt implicated Ald in any way. Townies get their reads wrong (esp day 1) all the time, so it could easily be a mistake. If these reads continue to be horrible of course ....
2) If you want to push those people (which I dont think is a good idea), do it yourself. Go through their filters and make a case if you think they are suspisious. Dont get DYH or someone else to do your dirty work for you.
3) Can we stop it with the bluefishing? On March 01 2012 01:51 zelblade wrote: Because if you get roleblocked you claim it. Immdiatedly. Its information mafia already have, and town having more information is always a plus. Lets say you got roleblocked. Would you hide that fact, or let it out into the open?
And no, I am not making a spectacle. The one doing so it you. We need to move on from this crap and start hunting some scum.
Onto the more important stuff.
I believe that a few of you (Sloosh, DYH, Hyde) are perhaps expecting too much from Alderan, and perhaps fear his scum play to an extent. I feel that his actions havent been scummy, and the cases made against him arent really great. What he has been called out for is supposedly dumping suspision on mutiple players. I do think that his thought process which he explained is perfectly valid. His play also happens to be totally diffrent from last game, where he played a safe scum that made the "right reads" and looked blue. His plan for day 1 was simply to tunnel dimmuklok, casting as much doubt without actually lynching him, instead wanting to leave him as a potential easy mislynch further into the game (which did not happen ofc). Furthermore, the activity diffrence is also staggering. I dont believe that he changed his style so much in just one game.
Im suspisious of gumshoe. I dont how much wifom he has been applying to everything, and how he tried to rolefish. I did get the sense that he was improving greatly last game, but this game it seems that he has faded to a point where he isnt doing much. You could see that gum was constantly trying last game, and was being really enthusiastic about the game, constantly attempting to contribute (abliet in pretty bad ways lol), and eventually got better with his reads.
However , look at his filter this game. There is hardly anything of note inside. It is a massive 6 5 pages ( -1 I guess since its pregame talk), but notice how little he says. Most of it is fluff, friendly (or unfriendly) banter, insistence on no no lynch and a bunch of wifom. Note how his only real contributions are him sheeping DYH on fourface, FOSing ghost and backing off using "irony" as an excuse, than saying that ghost is the best lynch about 2 posts after he backs off his pressure, citing "information" on sloosh as a primary reason. He also dumps out a couple of FOS on sloosh and steveling at the same time. I find his actions scummy, and it is alarming that he has managed to post so much yet say so little.
Yes, the gumshoe last game spammed as well. But look at the diffrence. That game his posts, whilst generally making little sense at the start (slowly improving) were filled with content, as opposed to the one-liners that he is spamming here. I suggest you guys to take a look at his filters from both games, and you would easily see the stark diffrence.
Which is also why I feel that gumshoe is our best lynch for today.
##vote: gumshoe On March 01 2012 01:55 zelblade wrote: Also nttea looks more like newb townie to me. Thats the feel I get from his post, and I highly doubt (abit of wifom here but please bear with me) that he would post like this with scumbuddies to help and coach him. He seems lost atm, and at any rate is a terrible lynch for today - easy to hop on, no information if he flips town.
That said, nttea you need to step up though. If you have trouble understanding what is going on perhaps take a look at one of the excellent guides around here or perhaps ask for help from one of the vets. On March 01 2012 01:57 zelblade wrote: Gumshoe, do you really think that me claiming roleblock is useless? Would you rather I keep it a secret and claim it like 5 days later after a roleblocker has flipped and you guys are asking if anyone got roleblocked? It is valuable information if I flip - you guys know they have a roleblocker. Sure, not the most useful piece of information in the world, but every bit is useful and helps town is some way. On March 01 2012 23:25 zelblade wrote: I agree with DYH that the activity (or lack thereof) is astounding. Its less than 12 hours to lynch, yet we dont have any clear targets. What we need to do now is to consolidate the lynch. Right now, there are votes scattered on gum, ald, ghost and chocolate. Whilst im pretty sure it is likely there is at least one scum and most likely more in there, we need to agree on who to lynch, prefably before the deadline.
Regarding the day 1 lynch, I feel that scum would definately have spread out their votes, and it is pretty unlikely that they all dumped their votes onto one person. Of the igabod train, who i feel most suspisious of is k2hd. His filter was pretty bare before recent posts, and the fact that he only started posting content when pressured feels wierd. Steveling was another suspect for me as I had read through the thread for the first time. I found him being lazy and not wanting to play being wierd as shit - why sign up if you know you arent going to play? Test (who replaced Steve) hasnt been giving off townie vibes either.
Another suspision from the igabod train I actually had was DYH. I found him not willing to switch to steveling because he didnt "trust" Aldrean, even though he said that he agreeded with him. However, I do think that DYH is town now - he is obviously putting in effort into the game and is making good sense.
I still believe that gumshoe will be the best lynch, and the most likely to flip scum imo. He still hasnt posted anything of substance, even though he has promised to do so, which is really wierd considering that he is always one of the most active posters so far in both this game and the last. My thoughts regarding him I have already elaborated on.
Also Aldrean where the hell did you go to?
I would be fine today with a gumshoe or k2hd lynch, in that order. Aldrean might not be a bad lynch either if he continues lurking so hard, but I would prefer leaving him for tomorrow.
I need to go sleep soon, someone who can be active during the deadline please try to consolidate the lynch. We cannot afford to no-lynch today.
P.S. I can change my vote from my phone before deadline if need be.
fuck that took way too long
|