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Hurm..... there is a lot of wifom especially around mafia behavior. While I admit you had meta experience you did seem pretty sure. Also there is plenty of scum motive for protecting a townie. It's called budding. Where you suck up to a town and use their arguments and ideas for your own agenda.
Now here is the interesting part you were completely right BUT why would he change a scummy meta all of a sudden. I assume you mean he was being scummy to win holistically but from the point of view of someone that doesn't know his alignment how did you explain him suddenly stopping all of a sudden? If he is playing scummy as town then he would play scummy as town this game. Now he obviously did make a meta change to try and win a town game (not sure of results of other games) but I would assume a change in his town meta from being scummy would have him as scum as he was trying too hard to compensate while having the back up plan of his meta.
That said that is kinda a past thing the main point I want answered is the one I asked in my last post. Also I am kinda glad you are here, was getting lonely.
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My reasons for suspecting/voting Trotske are not only that he confirms you as 100% town, though I am someone who factors in such things into his initial estimate of a person. I believe JSL stated it should only be a tie-breaker, this is very conservative and IMHO dead wrong.
Wait what do I believe? This isn't clear
On a side note the guy got back to me so I will be going out tomorrow but I should be at lynch up till 8-9 my time lynch is at 10. Not sure what time I will be getting back though.
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I woke up for this? Honestly while Zarepath does appear scummy spag still didn't answer the one main question I asked him. If he could have answered that I might have changed votes but it's obvious he couldn't. So I'm going back to bed.
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I agree with your first point acid but obviously not your second one.
But let me give a summary on why Zarapath is most likely scum.
Well first up there is the obvious voting for troske and not mocca. Now town are allowed to be confused however I think both other scum would have wanted in on a troske lynch. Considering how close it was till the end and the fact neither Zebet or I voted for a “proper lynch” that would be a huge risk to take as scum as acid says for not much benefit.
Secondly his night posts. They are all easy town cred posts. Posting lists of what happened without putting out content to go with them. Talking about Rb-ing ect while this does need to be talked about just having that as your content is not a town thing to do it’s a gain town cred thing to do.
His timing of his “bus” on Spag. Acid Myself and Shz all agreed it looked like a bus. That is three (or two depending on your perspective) town all thinking. “man that looks like a bus case” and why? I think spag actually answered that question in his attempt to survive.(wifom alert) The case was wind, it appears he was scraping the bowl to try and come up with some original thought so he could appear more town. (interesting to note that spag had the most to say about zara’s case being wrong I remember on time as scum I made a 2000-3000 word case on my scum buddy because it was the easiest thing to do)
Also a wifom post from spag
(4) - Zarepath. He's active(ish) and scummy as hell. His lists are semi helpful, but they are probably his biggest contribution other than getting me mislynched with really fucking bad rhetoric. I don't blame JSL for attacking Zarepath, but I feel as though his attacks have been half-hearted and not at all real. I was actually leaving Zare alone believing that JSL was going to post a solid case, but this never eventualised, so in some way it has worked as a protection...
At this point he knows he is going to flip scum so what does he do? He calls the other person most people think is scum scum. Now why would he do this? You would think he would want to set up his partner for success so it’s possible he called him scum to get him to look town. (although this is very wifom as he could have called town scum to wifom us into lynching him)
Now I would like to point out that wifom isn’t all bad, there is a reason these arguments exist saying its wifom its bad isn’t good play. You need to analyse it and decide for yourself which is more likely.
He gave us this will probably expecting to be lynched though so reading into it too much could just confuse us. Personally I think scum is between Zara and Zeb I have already mentioned this. (if acid is scum then hats off to you) Shz nailed the vote on scum and trokse I find unlikely due to what acid said. Now I will have to look into the others more at some point but....
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If we have a detective, they will have investigated 2 people already, and 3 by the end of N3. I am wondering whether it would be in town's best interests for a full role claim at the very end of N3 or the very beginning of day 4. We'll be missing our DT's reads if we let him remain silent tonight and he gets killed.
Playing league(yeah hate me) but just wanted to point out the solution to this is to have him drop reads a minute before lynch and then if he lives the other read after.
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Well I think this is the second/third? time zebezt seems to have voted strangely.
so atm I am going to find out why zebezt voted the way he did.
....
Ok it seems like he voted for snowman right after mocca does and then he leaves it there for the entire day. Even when snow goes out of contention. Second day he votes me then leaves the thread to only re-enter after two entirely different people got lynched/almost lynched which he wasn't a part off.. third day he votes me again, and seems super reluctant to vote spag. He seemed to wait till after spags last ditch attempt to stay alive was over before voting for him.
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Oh well that makes it simple, I am assuming this is a DT claim do you have any breadcrumbs?
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THE BUNNY THE BUNNY OH I LOVE THE BUNNY!
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Well first acid told us to (lol) and secondly there is a case on him. It might be good if you read it, does my filter scream scum to you? Make a case on my filter if you want. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=391615&user=279926
What screams scum about me over zara? You have said a lot of things about me but I have refuted them. Make a new case based on my filter and take off the rose colored glasses. Think about why I would do something as town, and why I would do it as scum. Read my past games if you have to.... your recent cases on me have just been saying I think jsl is scummier.
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Ok I was out unicycling so I had around 80 minutes of traveling time thinking about this. Now assuming a sk has done nothing all game is inferior logic....
Just assume there is an Sk. The most likely set up is two mafia. Now the Sk doesn't want to give himself away but as soon as two mafia die the first thing he would do is start killing people.
See you are starting with the pretext of three mafia plus possible sk (which I find interesting in the fact you seem to know there are three mafia?) But it would probably be 2 mafia one sk. Now either you tunneled onto me because I am the easiest mislynch or you didn't think about it properly.
In other words I think with doc being confirmed it is either a Mafia Zara or an Sk, Zeb. Because sk would turn up green to cop checks if he chose that ability.
Now the reason I started to think about that was I realised despite having a lot against zeb I couldn't link him to mafia. (and initially I thought cop made him town) But what was interesting how he practically avoided every lynch. Without being part of mafia he wouldn't be saving or bandwagoning and without being town he wouldn't legitimately care.
If shz is magically mafia I might kill myself.
Now what is also interesting is something I found is zebs filter, while it is before the game starts it proves he would have thought about the win conditions for sk.
On January 09 2013 20:34 zebezt wrote: How unfair, there is no coach for the person with the hardest role.
On January 12 2013 04:55 zebezt wrote: Yeah, I thought about SK kill conditions alot as well too. Seems very hard. A last night with 4 people including a vigilante also could lead to a winning scenario.
So he wouldn't have gone crazy killing people early on.
Also would like to point out you haven't responded to my case on you. While being afk for most of the day is convenient it's not exactly helpful.
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In the middle of my reply but I wanted to clear something up real quick.
First off I knew it was soon. Like 3 hours or so I didn’t think it was soon as in 1 hour. You are twisting the word soon in this case considering days are 48 hours long I think I am pretty alright in saying what I thought was going to be 2-3 hours soon.
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Yeah but I obviously don't want to die, and considering the possibility of sk there is a reason I don't want town wasting a lynch on me. You could use the same logic the other way around. Why are we ignoring sk? If zara and I flip town we lose the game. Ignoring the possibility is just stupid. Why doesn't zara mind getting lynched if he is town? He doesn't seem to think there is an sk so him dying to lynch me shouldn't be a problem. ......... First off I knew it was soon. Like 3 hours or so I didn’t think it was soon as in 1 hour. You are twisting the word soon in this case considering days are 48 hours long I think I am pretty alright in saying what I thought was going to be 2-3 hours soon.
I have already gone though many times about the no vote, think about it from both angles. No voting as mafia gets nothing. I already was thinking trotske was scum based off the post from acid if I was mafia I could have voted for him and got him lynched.
Not to bring up the dead but acid said this in regards to trotske.
I don't think I need to explain how a 4-3 ratio is stupidly more advantageous to scum than *maybe* getting a bit of town cred. Why would I do that to not gain any cred?
If we look at associations with Spag, we see that Spag said literally NOTHING about Laguerta, and in fact never suspected him of lurking or anything.
Was a lurking? I think I was one of the only people in discussion most of the time.
When Mocsta flips Godfather, his first response isn't to investigate Spag's reason for switching his vote, but to go after ME for my voting with Mocsta (which is fine; it deserved explanation, but he went after me first, and not after Spag.)
Your post explaining why you voted the way you did looked far worse than spags. He turned out to just be amazing with words. But he seemed at the time to give an explanation I couldn’t refute at least not immediately.
When it's clear that Spag will be lynched, Jacob FoSes him for being a lurker (when Spag had clearly stated he wouldn't be around for a bit), and leaves his vote parked there when it's clear nothing will prevent a Spag lynch.
But most of Jacob's energy that day was spent trying to poke holes in my case on Spag and trying to suggest that I am scummy or involved in a bus.
When Jacob calls me out for busing, his arguments are that Acid and Shz ALSO thought it was a bus, that my lists were scummy, and that my arguments against Spag were timed scummily and made of wind. Note that he's hiding behind two townies for this, ignores the fact that I was the very first person to vote for Spag, and that my arguments were rigorous and, most of all, correct.
I don’t remember it being clear he was going to be lynched I was one of the first people to go at him properly if I recall correctly. Can you link to me posting holes in your case all day? Yes I am not going to sit down and ignore everyone else, if I remember I was going after you and zeb when it got to the point where spag hadn’t been in the thread for like a year. What did you want me to do sit around and wait for lynch? (wait just saw shz post you actually voted for him first? I thought I was the first (apart from trotske) to vote for him.)
So I am hiding behind two townies and spag... I mentioned that spag might have given away that you were scum by the fact your case was the easiest to refute.
On the night of the Spag lynch, Jacob really goes after myself and Zebezt, and has been after me all game without a single in-depth post of analysis. If he were really convinced I were scum, you'd think he'd do some actual investigation.
I don’t do single in depth often. You should know this if you took the time to read my previous games. I assume everyone has payed attention to my previous posts and remember the things I said about people being scummy. I am in depth but its spread over several pages as I work it all out.
And if he is so certain that I am scum, why does he even both suspecting zebezt near the end of the night? The consensus is that there's only one scum left, so if I'm scum, why is he suspecting other people as well? It's not that you can't suspect multiple people, but he's pretty dead-set on me from what I can tell.
I am fairly certain you are scum yes. But if I am wrong I need to find out. Which is why I have been going at zeb along side you. You are basically saying I can’t not know what is going on which is ridiculous.
When zebezt suggests that our RB should RB JAcob, what's Jacob's pro-town response? "No, dont' waste your RB, you should put it on a REAL scum read, like X, Y, or Z!" No, instead, it's "heh, sure thing." Town would not be satisfied with knowing that a night action is being wasted on them. To be honest I was pretty frustrated by this point. It was the wrong thing to do though.
Mocsta's last-minute switch onto Mandalor saved Laguerta (and he was one of the later people to go for Laguerta, probably after scum coach suggested bus for Laguerta's crazy bad play) .
You are reading my filter but you obviously missed my replies to zeb, He could have thought oh Laguerta would be an easy kill later let’s kill the harder to lynch mandalor.
Mocsta's case on OE assumed Laguerta as scum, but suggested a lynch on OE first (which would potentially then clear Laguerta) Mocsta's case on Trotske, when his OE case doesn't pick up, ALSO argues that Trotske is over-protective of Laguerta and that there must be a relationship there.
Zebezt brought up the point that Mocsta stated he was 100% sure Laguerta was scum but still wouldn't vote for him -- only Mafia know 100% sure about anybody's alignment. Mocsta was constantly suggesting that Laguerta was scum but never pushing for Laguerta to be lynched; in fact, he did all he could to avoid it. In fact, whenever he argued Laguerta was scummy, he did it in the same breath as saying that that was evidence for someone else to be lynched. When it appears Mocsta may be going down, he tells Sno_Man that town will need him to "pressure on laguerta." This seems like bait to me, something he hoped we would pick up once Mocsta flips scum -- "He wanted us to pressure Laguerta! Hah! Yeah right!"
This part is so wifom, you have to realise at this point he knew he was going down. Linking Trotske to Laguerta what does this give him? Saying to pressure me when he was going to flip scum is very wifom it could go both ways. Also using someone that looks scummy and likely to get mod killed is a good tool for making cases on other people. At that point in the game I was virtually mod killed. Why would he want to kill me when he could kill someone else and likely have me out of the game as well?
I would like to point out Zara hasn't even responded to the arguments against him? Why do this? Can't he answer the questions?
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So if I think about the possibility of an Sk I should wait till after lynch to mention it? Sounds like a perfect plan if I wanted to confuse people. Also if I die I want people to know that they should think about the next lynch carefully.
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Well I can't say I wasn't expecting this, zebezt has been tunneling me all game and Zara knows this.
I am going to vote Zara now so people know where I stand, the reasons why are obvious just read my filter. When I wake up I will continue this.
##Vote zarepath
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Because I have information you don’t. First off I guess this is the point I claim rb’er... now I want you to follow this post with a clear head.
First mocca was rb’ed night one and he claimed he was rb’ed probably in order to gain town cred, secondly I rb’ed spag which was why I focused on Zara so much (thinking I might get lucky with no kills from mafia who knows maybe I did and the sk killed that night)
Next I rb’ed Zeb but there was still a kill. So I thought I was wrong but decided not to show I had information and just push zara over him.
Last thing I did was role block zara and this was when everything was revealed. You may wonder why I went spastic about an sk. Zara lied about being rb’ed probably because he assumed I was it and a kill still went though.
Now you might think how can we confirm this? Well let me live the day and I will role block whoever you want me to. Assuming we kill either zara or zebzet there can only be one night kill. (unless sk is shz and I have just been on the wrong trail the entire time) But if that happens we can get to it when it does.
Also you might think I am mafia roleblocker but why has nobody claimed rb the entire thread? (apart from mocca) Because I hit scum everytime. There is no point for mafia to rb their own people. Apart from if they try to gain town cred from it and doing that every night is pointless.
Also I was soft claiming rb’er... “heh sure thing” was me saying sure I’ll rb myself you morons.
Now you probably don’t believe me but if you don’t think there is an sk and a mafia then there is no problem letting me live another night as it would be obvious who is scum. There is no way I would get out of it if one of these two flips town. If one of them does flip town, I probably won’t even argue just accept my fate.
Now you might think that 3 scum one sk is unlikely, but we have at least three power roles in town. We have a vig, a cop, and a rb’er. I have played in a game that was three mafia one sk before I know it happens.
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Because I am not a jail keeper I am a role blocker...
You're the only one around here with hair. For some reason this means you're a Roleblocker. (once at/every) night you can roleblock someone and it will prevent them from using any of their night actions. You win when all the mafia have been killed. Your target will be aware that they were roleblocked, but nothing beyond that.
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Well I didn't want to get night killed. Because I had the chance to completely stop nk's after this lynch if I was wrong.
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but no it wouldn't confirm you as town, because if I was rb'er and zeb was confirmed due to cop then that would make shz scum. Also you would be unsure as to who I rb'ed so the information with that would lead to your lynch.
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