EBWOP: I've already asked for /replace so I won't be needing obs =)
This Town Ain't Big Enough Mafia
Forum Index > TL Mafia |
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
EBWOP: I've already asked for /replace so I won't be needing obs =) | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
I doubt I'll be needed, but I can't play more than 1 game at a time, but I still want to have a shot of playing this game. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
Sorry Hiro, I've been all over the place when it comes to what way I'm going to take part in this game, but /in Thanks =) | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
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Corazon
United States3230 Posts
I feel like Marv and Snarfs made some good points (besides Snarfs' soft town claim). I feel that any rash plays are just going to hurt town and that we should use all of the time available to come to a neat and organized decision, which is most often the right one. I think getting the two scummiest dudes to duel each other is a good idea but if they are both scum I think they would be reluctant to do so. Any plans revolving around this idea just generally invite a lot of WIFOM, which I would like to stay away from as well. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On February 25 2013 03:50 marvellosity wrote: Please don't use the word WIFOM when you don't know how to apply it. Makes me shudder reading your last paragraph tbh. If two scum are reluctant, then they're virtually mafia-claiming anyway. So that's not how it would go down at all. Yeah but then we have to figure out whether their behavior and actions towards the other person is based off of them truly defending themselves or bussing their scumbuddy. The alternative would be to not vote and have both of them killed, but I don't think we should take that much of a risk. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On February 25 2013 05:03 marvellosity wrote: yeah I'll talk about it more after dinner. I don't like Corazon already. If you've ever seen any of my other games, you'll find that no one ever likes me... | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
Sylencia's and Hapa's responses both have completely different mentalities when it comes to handling discussion: On February 25 2013 06:57 Hapahauli wrote: Ok this is getting nowhere. @ Cora Let's not start with the "woe is me" attitude. Why did people not like you in your previous games, and what are you going to do about it this game? On February 25 2013 07:05 Sylencia wrote: Because of your piss poor attitude when things don't go exactly the way you want it to. The big difference that I see between Hapa's response and Syl's response is that Hapa is trying to stimulate discussion and promote a good environment where we can all improve, whereas Syl is trying to rub salt in old wounds and is baiting me to argue with him on this. I'm not taking the bait Syl. Nice try. Why have people not trusted me in previous games? Because I have said stupid stuff and did little to look pro-town (if I was town). In all honesty I always find the opening parts of Mafia hard and my first post was pretty evident of that. At least you guys know that I am not lurking/have an actual heartbeat. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On February 25 2013 07:50 yamato77 wrote: So do you think Sylencia is mafia for it, Cora? Is it scummy for him to do what you point out? You left out any comment on his alignment. Sarcastic responses aside, it's a scummy move but it is only one post. He's still a null read. If I think he is scum somewhere down the line, I'll let you all know. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On February 25 2013 08:04 Sylencia wrote: I'm not trying to start an argument. I'm simply stating it as is. If I wanted to argue with you about it, I would've done it days ago in the NMM thread, but I didn't because I honestly don't care that much. The only thing which annoyed me is that it felt like you were trying to get sympathy from others because of how others think of you. Dude I'm not expecting pity from anyone. I was mostly referencing the fact that I have a hard time getting people to think I'm town (which I just explained above) in multiple games (especially last game where the whole obs QT wanted to lynch me). Don't try to make it an issue. Right now what you're saying is "I don't want to make an argument, but here is my point again". It's contradictory. And if you were not trying to make it an issue, don't be such a dick with your word choice. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On February 25 2013 08:57 Hapahauli wrote: Corazon, I get the impression that you're more concerned with calling Sylencia a dick rather than anything else. It's fine if you don't get along with him, but it does nothing for town objectives. He's trying to drag me into a shit-fest with him that will only create chaos, which we don't need. I'm not trying to call him a dick, I'm just calling him out on his post. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On February 25 2013 09:10 Acrofales wrote: Why do you feel him being angry at you for past games is a "scummy move"? I think it's scummy because he's trying to drag our focus away from the real discussion by trying to start an argument with me about things that have little relation to this game. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On February 25 2013 09:34 yamato77 wrote: Hapa's backup policy was bad, because it implied an immediate lynch candidate for breaking the plan that no one would end up following. I have said multiple times that Marv's plan is a good one if town is compliant. The problem I have said, also many times, is that town is not always compliant, even if/when Marv is town. Are you just not reading? Yamato, why are you saying that we should all trust your scumhunting skills and let you duel everyone we think is scum, and then turn around and say that town will not always comply to everything that is said. You were being so stubborn on the fact that others don't want you to go gung-ho and do all of the scumhunting for us, and now you are being stubborn on the fact that Marv's plan relies on town being compliant. Doesn't town compliance work in the same what for your desired approach to the game as well? | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
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Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On February 25 2013 09:41 yamato77 wrote: I'm done talking about this stupid fucking setup shit. I'm lynching mafia, even if town fucks off. That's the gist of my posting. If you don't like it, I really don't care anymore. We need to work as a team if we want to win. I trust in your ability to scumhunt, just not enough where I will sheep on you and don't do anything for the whole game. I'm sure others would agree with this as well. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On February 25 2013 09:43 yamato77 wrote: Cora is mafia. Discuss. Yamato is trying to change the subject and slink into the shadows. Discuss. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On February 25 2013 09:46 yamato77 wrote: Notice the difference between my post and yours? I have the balls to call you mafia, yet this is the millionth time you've insinuated that someone is scummy yet not called them scum. Well if you're going to call me mafia (and call Marv mafia), you're going to need some sort of proof that implies that you are not jumping to conclusions. Attacking your desired approach to the game (which is different from attacking you ) is far from proof. If you expect me to think someone is scum based off of 1-2 posts, you are expecting way too much out of anyone here. The fact that you are trying to piggyback on momentum already started by others just because you are tired of talking about something is scummy. That doesn't make me 100% positive you are scum though. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On February 25 2013 10:16 yamato77 wrote: I never called Marv mafia. You did indeed attack me in the post I quoted by insinuating I was scummy, but you never said "scum" or "mafia". I do expect you to take stances. That's how you play the game. I do apologize, it was Acro that you called scum. Yes, you should expect me to take stances. However, you should also expect me to take stances based off of logic and reasoning after analyzing more than 1-2 posts. If you want to play paranoid and call out every single person who disagrees with you as scum, you're just being a liability to the town. You're trying to say that my initial attack was after you tried to shift the spotlight from you to me, when in fact it was me disagreeing with your points and your desired way to play the game. On February 25 2013 09:42 cDgCorazon wrote: We need to work as a team if we want to win. I trust in your ability to scumhunt, just not enough where I will sheep on you and don't do anything for the whole game. I'm sure others would agree with this as well. Do you really think I'm calling you scum here? I'm not. Having an itchy trigger finger is not going to help us in this game. I suggest you get off your high horse and try to be a asset to the town, not a liability. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On February 25 2013 10:24 marvellosity wrote: hey Corazon, who would you kill right now if you had to, who isn't called Sylencia Right now, I would kill Yamato because he looks like he is going to go rogue the whole game and not listen to us at all. He's also expecting me to have scum reads 6-7 pages into the game and expecting every post I make to be an attack on someone. He changed the subject to put the focus on my lack of scum reads this early in the game (sheeping on your notion earlier that I was being wishy-washy, it's an unoriginal argument which is really scummy seeing as there's been so little discussion). Basically, he wants the thread to be like the "Reign of Terror" from the French Revolution. I'm pretty sure that is not necessary for us to catch the scum. A close second is Adam who has displayed the same desire to go rogue but hasn't been as abrasive. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On February 25 2013 10:28 iamperfection wrote: the answer is snarfs or dino man corazon. Don't pressure me into making an answer that you want. I can think for myself, thank you very much. Snarfs' first post a bit scummier than Dinoman's is. Do you expect everyone to be 100% convinced about the scum team this early on in the game as well? | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On February 25 2013 10:32 iamperfection wrote: what a terrible answer we want to lynch scum not people who want to go rouge Did you read anything besides the first line of my answer? | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On February 25 2013 10:33 Adam4167 wrote: So, you would kill someone for being 'anti-town' in your opinion, as opposed to them actually being scum? Nothing you've pointed out indicates Yamato is scum in the slightest. How do I rate lower than Yamato if i'm being less abrasive? Would that not be indicative of me being more likely to be scum? I was only asked for one person to kill. If it was up to me right now, I'd have you two duel each other. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On February 25 2013 10:33 iamperfection wrote: and hint hint all reads subject to change deal with it I hope you read that too. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
That every post should not be saying "_____ is scum, here's why". That's not discussion, that's "Reign of Terror". Reads change during the game. You want me to come out and say that I think you are 100% scum confirmed without any possible changes of heart later on. That is ridiculous and you know it. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On February 25 2013 10:40 yamato77 wrote: No, I want you to take any stance at all about anyone's alignment And you aren't. I want you to not say everyone that disagrees with you is scum. And you aren't. Savvy? | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On February 25 2013 10:45 yamato77 wrote: I never, ever said that. Ever. You are not doing well here, my friend. Then why, when I said that I disagreed with your desired way to play the game and that there were conflicts in your arguments, did you change the subject and put pressure on me? That's a scummy move. You tried to flip the tables and use Marv's momentum to attack me and making it look like you are scum hunting when in reality you are just pressuring me to be so good at Mafia that I have the scum team pegged down already. That is a scummy move. Do some real scumhunting. Threatening me is not going to help disprove the "Reign of Terror" atmosphere that you are putting out here. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On February 25 2013 10:52 Oatsmaster wrote: Hey guys, Cora is scummy for wanting to lynch rouge players and not actually scum, and in no way linking rouge play to playing like scum. Marv is also kinda suspicious. He seems too polite and that policy post had pregame written all over it. Am I 100% scum, and that view won't change at all? If so, you are playing right into Yamato's desired town play. If not, then Yamato thinks you are scum. Sorry Yamato, I know you want to do all of the work. I'm just making it easier for you... | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On February 25 2013 10:56 Oatsmaster wrote: What was the point of that statment? You are scummy not scum. You havent done anything to change anyones opinion since the start of the game Well I was just saying that Yamato doesn't like half-reads. He expects a full 100% town read or a 100% scum read. Would you all like me to say that Yamato is 100% scum? Cause I can do that... | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
You picked an opportune moment to pile on the people questioning me, and all of what you had written was retreading stuff people had already put out there. I did not repeat anything that anyone had said in that post. It was my thoughts on the subject and pointing out an inconsistency that was present in your argument that no one else had pointed out before. How is that repeating? I was tired of talking about setup, which is pointless and was getting irritatingly stupid, so I put out my scum read. Since then, you haven't managed to take any stances about anyone being mafia at all for anything that is actually alignment indicative. No, you were tired of people attacking you for your gung-ho mentality, so you decided to shift the focus away from that. You decided to pick me because I was the only other person to come under fire, instead of looking at other targets. You tried to change the subject so you couldn't be pressured anymore. Now you're all-in because I'm your only read, so you call me scummy now when earlier you didn't. I've said this a million times. I think your actions are scummy right now, but we have a long time before we have to make a decision about who we want to duel and who we want to vote off. You're acting too hasty in getting to that point. Sure we can sit here and argue with each other, but who knows who will still be here come D2? I can sit here and say all I want about how other people were doing so-and-so, but I was given advice a while ago that if you go after multiple people, you never make ground on any of them, which means you are really hunting no one. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On February 25 2013 11:11 Oatsmaster wrote: I dont feel comfortable with this statement, cora is basically namedropping here to soft claim town. Thoughts? There aren't any coaches for this game? | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
Yes I would love to know why you are "bored of me". Is it because you realize I'm right? Is this a continuation of a trend to change the subject when the pressure is on you? | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On February 25 2013 11:15 yamato77 wrote: He's arguing his point with me, standing his ground. It's that I'm mafia, but it's reasonable for him to think I'm just jumping on with you and others who had expressed dislike with him. Arguing the point does nothing to get any better read on him. Then why do you do it right when another attack on someone else opens up? | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On February 25 2013 11:27 marvellosity wrote: This just makes no sense at all. NO SENSE MAKE IT NO YO. Which part does not make sense? | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On February 25 2013 11:31 thrawn2112 wrote: the part where "not a town tell" + "not a scum tell" = "makes me suspicious" iamp. enlighten me about this long history we have that enables you to read me as town so easily in this specific game I know I should really shut up about Yamato but: Why are you guys getting on each other for having such early town reads and not get on Yamato for having such early scum reads? | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On February 25 2013 11:35 iamperfection wrote: because it would be easy for mafia to just dump a bunch of town reads because they would be right. good way to look like your contributing Yes, but making a bunch of relatively weak scum reads would accomplish the same goal of appearing to contribute. They don't even need to be flipped. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On February 25 2013 11:41 iamperfection wrote: dino was so easy to read in chrono checkmate I think Dieno's post wasn't wishy-washy. I just think it didn't have much of a purpose, and he put too much fluff into it. He basically said that he agreed with Marv and Snarf (which is basically repeating what had been said before), told Yamato to hold off on his itchy trigger finger (which was also being repeated), and made some weirdly-shown suspicion towards me. It was very sheepy, but not wishy-washy. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On February 25 2013 11:52 Adam4167 wrote: How was it not wishy-washy? It was just a stream of thoughts with no conclusion, considering both possibilities of yamato's alignment and settling on neither. His thoughts on marvs interaction on you was equally as pointless. That is the definition of wishy-washy. Hi Adam, nice to see that you have chosen my post to respond to in place of all of the other arguments. Very nice... Wishy-washy (in my eyes) is saying things that are contradictory to each other. Nothing that he said was contradictory. I'm not saying that the post wasn't completely pointless and basically just fluff, but "wishy-washy" was not an accurate description of Dieno's post. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On February 25 2013 12:39 Acrofales wrote: Aggression isn't a scum- or a town-tell. Aggression is simply aggression. Case in point: Mocsta NMM 37. Also, VE is pretty aggressive as either alignment. Just to name some examples. That said, Adam tends to lurk wayyyy too much as scum. His activity and early pressure on Dieno are uncharacteristic for his scum play. Too early to really tell, though. I still think Adam is lurking. Compared to most of the other people so far, he has been picking and choosing his times to talk very sparingly. Making one argument against Dieno and kind of attacking me/kind of not attacking me is really a drop in the ocean compared to the activity level the rest of the town has shown. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On February 25 2013 12:55 Adam4167 wrote: I dropped my interest in you right about the time you said you wanted the two most abrasive and against-the-grain players to duel each other. That said to me that you are just being an emotional townie who wanted to get rid of people who weren't conforming to how you wanted the game played. I doubt scum would be making an argument like that, hence I have no interest in probing you further. Seriously, I was asked the question based off of 3-4 pages of the thread... If you seriously want to go hung-ho and call all of the shots, go ahead. There's no point in arguing with you, and I doubt my crappy internet can beat you to typing ##Duel once the Night period is over. Let's imagine a gung-ho player decides to duel someone that they have a scum read on, but the rest of the town does not agree with their reasoning. How do you choose between someone playing aggressive and someone you have a town read on? It's either going to result in the gung-ho player getting lynched or making a lynch that you are not happy with. Both are a waste of a Day cycle and are free kills for the scum basically. That's my biggest problem with you and Yamato's approach to the duel system. The fact that Yamato called me scum for it and that you are calling me emotional over it is absolutely ridiculous. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
1. Zare is always inactive Sundays. He should (hopefully) be joining us today after reading over the thread. 2. @Oats, why did you just attack Iamp for giving town reads when Yamato gave 5-6 of them a couple of pages ago? If you're going to call one person out for a behavior, you need to call everyone out who exhibits that behavior. 3. When I get home from school (in a few hours), I am going to re-read the pages with the whole go around between the TL veterans (basically everyone but the lurkers, me, Adam, Yamato, and Dieno). It's hard to follow because you guys just sit around and call each other scum/town based on each other's metas, which in all honesty is kind of pointless. Metas can change at any point, and players can use their meta from one side or another to conscientiously give others a town read based on their meta. Don't read too much into them (which I'm afraid you guys are doing right now). I'm not saying that all of it has been meta talk, but I've seen way too much meta talk thrown around. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On February 26 2013 00:17 Oatsmaster wrote: Cora, you are picking up on the smallest of things, and things that dont even exist? Iamp gets slammed almost every game for being too free with his town reads, I thought it was funny and I dont think he thought I was attacking him. Well why can Yamato get away with stuff but Iamp can't? You have to admit that it's a little unfair. It's not being consistent. Why is it when you attack Iamp for making town reads and not attack Yamato for the same thing? If you think it's a scummy action, it's at least slightly scummy everytime someone does it. It's not scummy when Iamp does it and not when Yamato does it. It can be scummier due to metas, but you can't let Yamato get off scot free with it. What is the point of this post other than defend zare for nothing and attacking me for nothing? And giving advice? Its day 1, difficult to glean understanding of someones alignment if you only look at day 1 alone. Look and LIX, Marv pointed out me and Prp with META, its not useless and if used properly really useful. Also look at hapa and Thrawn, with the same info and different outcomes, due to their knowledge of Iamps meta, is a good point that could mean that one of them is scum. Or not. We will see. That's why I'm going to re-read the thread and see if I can sort all of these attacks out. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On February 26 2013 00:29 Oatsmaster wrote: I am not attacking Iamp. Then you are giving him advice, which you just told me not to do... | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On February 26 2013 04:50 Snarfs wrote: Also adding this so I don't forget later: Right up until page 20 when a few more people showed up in the game, lots of talk was on Hapa but Corazon completely ignored that discussion and went after Oats, if I recall correctly. I'm a little rusty on how to interpret that, but it seemed noteworthy. Are you serious? I went after the fact that Oats was being inconsistent. What I said had nothing to do with the back and forth and forth and forth between all the experienced vets (which I will get to reading right after I post this). That was a really weak point to bring up, and I'm really surprised that you've decided to focus on that instead of everything else that has gone on. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On February 26 2013 00:13 cDgCorazon wrote: 3. When I get home from school (in a few hours), I am going to re-read the pages with the whole go around between the TL veterans (basically everyone but the lurkers, me, Adam, Yamato, and Dieno). Maybe you haven't read the thread enough... | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
Hapa's attack on Iamp did not have very good grounds to start with. Hapa said that Iamp's posts have not been sensical and the fact that Iamp is going to defend Yamato "till the end" just because he has a town read on him now. While I agree with the concern over Iamp's attitude towards Yamato (especially because he went on to say that reads can change. Pretty contradictory), I don't think all of Iamp's posts up to that point were nonsensical. He had made a couple of good points and Hapa only made mention of the bad ones. Hapa and Iamp have their little back and forth and Iamp basically besides to become all egotistical and say that his abilities to scumhunt are paralled by none. On February 25 2013 11:51 iamperfection wrote: not really everybody else needed that stuff i had him pegged as town after two posts. didnt read parallel Another issue I have in this whole argument is this post: On February 25 2013 11:41 Hapahauli wrote: Newbie player makes wishy-washy newbie post. Your turn. Hapa goes and basically plays the noob card for Dieno. I know that it's scummy enough to play the noob card for oneself, but the fact that Hapa used it to defend Dieno is scummy as well. However, it did fit into his later logic that reads should not be made off of one post and that he had a null read on both. How this argument ended was ridiculously silly. Once it looked like Hapa was not going to gain anything else with this, he basically used Iamp's answer to get out of pressuring him. I, like others, do not understand how saying "because I felt like it" is an automatic town tell? Yamato hit the nail on the head for why I think Hapa ended the argument: On February 25 2013 12:24 yamato77 wrote: No, it's just Hapa finding a reason to get off iamp once he figures out that the thread isn't following him. I don't know if it's a pride issue or whatever with Hapa, but he could've handled this way better that how he did. That had to have been the worst possible way to end an argument. I don't understand the reasoning, and I'm starting to get a scummy vibe from Hapa. This is what I see. I'm going to make another post with a few other small things to say as well, but here is my 2 cents on Hapa. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
Oats' play so far has been a bit shaky for me. I already pointed out the fact that he is being inconsistent towards Iamp and other players, but he hasn't made any clear effort to scumhunt. Most of his filter has been directing discussion and debates with others, but he hasn't brought in any clear direction with his posts. He has made several hints to him thinking players are scummy: On February 25 2013 20:01 Oatsmaster wrote: Acro is also somewhat scummy, cant really pin down what it is though :/ On February 26 2013 01:17 Oatsmaster wrote: Welcome to scumland Zarepath, at least in my book :D The points where he has shown doubt and suspicion on another player (and not their arguments) have been thrown out there, but he hasn't put anything behind them. The one time where he expanded on one of these points: On February 25 2013 11:23 Oatsmaster wrote: I get a different feeling in this game than LIX. He is not really stepping up here, even in LIX he didnt run for mayor until half of the first cycle was gone. So therefore, I dont really think marv is helping town so far. So therefore he is scummy. Acro's response basically explains how I feel about this: On February 25 2013 12:13 Acrofales wrote: This is completely contradictory. In LIX Marv didn't step up until later. He was town there. In this game, Marv has not stepped up in the first 4 (or so) hours of the game. Therefore Marv is scummy this game. This makes no sense to me. Oats, your reads so far make no sense. You scum throwing shitty cases around and trying to discredit strong players? The moment after Oats makes this illogical statement, he tries to get everyone to not think about it: On February 25 2013 11:26 Oatsmaster wrote: Anyway its pointless to pursue this further on this point, I dont think its a very strong scumtell for marv, but it isnt a towntell. Which makes me suspicous. Also hapa get in the game, thrawn and marv just beat you to the exact same point. And when he gets challenged on the point, he tries to throw the discussion elsewhere: On February 25 2013 11:50 Oatsmaster wrote: Thrawn I didnt say it wasnt a scumtell, I said it wasnt a strong scumtell. Anyway stop discussing Marv, its getting nowhere. Acro do you have any reads? He's trying to dodge the fact that he made an illogical argument. To me, that is a strong scum tell. He refuses to elaborate on why Marv playing like his town meta makes him scummy because he knows it is a bad argument. Why would scum try to avoid this? They need to make up arguments that are not true so that the town will not vote them off. Why would he make this silly argument in the first place if he wasn't scum? Why would he not own up to his mistake and take the blame for a bad argument and instead try to sidestep it? These are the questions I would love to see Oats answer. On a final note, Sylencia's play seems a lot like his scum game from NMM XXXIV. He seems perfectly content with hiding in the shadows and letting everyone else destroy each other and not have to do any scumhunting himself. If I had to choose who to duel right now, it would be Hapa and Oats. Sylencia would be a close third. If anyone has any questions, feel free to ask. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On February 26 2013 06:12 Alderan wrote: Ok guys, I'm here. Thought I was getting back from vacation the night of the 24th but only getting back today due to some travel issues. Sorry for the inactivity, that shouldn't be an accurate representation of my play going forward. Having lurkers sucks so I'm going to try and get my ideas out about as many topics as quickly as possible, and if you have any specific questions for me let me know. Im in the library for the next our and a half or so, should be enough time to get something going. Hello! Being a bit late to the party, there are things that we all might have missed in the heat of the moment. Is there anything that you have found from the pervious discussion that you want to point out or that you want to discuss more? If you had to have two people duel each other right now, who would it be and why? | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On February 26 2013 06:57 Acrofales wrote: @Cora and Zarepath: you just got out of a game mislynching Sylencia. Nevertheless, you both seem quite convinced he's scum. What puts his play apart from his early play in NMM 37? Good question. The main factor is that he's done nothing to change his town play. If he was town, he would be trying to learn from his mistakes and avoid being mislynched again. He would be a lot more proactive in his playstyle than if he were scum. He's just trying to take advantage of the fact that we have been at our throats and has decide to take a step back and lurked. When WB, Mocsta, and I were at each other's throats last game, Sylencia came in and at least made an interjection about the possibilities of WB's claim. Here, he's made little contribution towards the discussion, and has already tried to get me emotionally charged at him and make a distraction. @Syl: I lynched you last game for not having reads...care to share some thoughts now? | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
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Corazon
United States3230 Posts
After reading Zare's post again, I do think you have a point. I also think this post is full of ideas that have been said already. It really just looks like an unfocused list of his reads based on what others have said. If I may be so bold Iamp, would you like to reciprocate and give me some feedback on my suspicion towards Oats? + Show Spoiler + On February 26 2013 06:17 cDgCorazon wrote: A few other things I would like to point out: Oats' play so far has been a bit shaky for me. I already pointed out the fact that he is being inconsistent towards Iamp and other players, but he hasn't made any clear effort to scumhunt. Most of his filter has been directing discussion and debates with others, but he hasn't brought in any clear direction with his posts. He has made several hints to him thinking players are scummy: The points where he has shown doubt and suspicion on another player (and not their arguments) have been thrown out there, but he hasn't put anything behind them. The one time where he expanded on one of these points: Acro's response basically explains how I feel about this: The moment after Oats makes this illogical statement, he tries to get everyone to not think about it: And when he gets challenged on the point, he tries to throw the discussion elsewhere: He's trying to dodge the fact that he made an illogical argument. To me, that is a strong scum tell. He refuses to elaborate on why Marv playing like his town meta makes him scummy because he knows it is a bad argument. Why would scum try to avoid this? They need to make up arguments that are not true so that the town will not vote them off. Why would he make this silly argument in the first place if he wasn't scum? Why would he not own up to his mistake and take the blame for a bad argument and instead try to sidestep it? These are the questions I would love to see Oats answer. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On February 26 2013 08:09 iamperfection wrote: oats hasnt bugged me at all i think he is town So do you feel like my points are not scum tells? Or that they are not strong enough to sway you from your current read of Oats? | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
In NMM 33, you won as town because your teammates did all of the work for you (plus I was the only active scum). In NMM 34, you won as scum because you just stood back and watched the town tear each other apart. In NMM 37, you were lynched for the same behavior and was one of the many reasons that the town lost. Based off of the results of the following games, this is how I would expect your game to change: If you rolled town: You would try to play a bigger role in the town discussion to both help the efforts of the scum hunt and to avoid getting mislynched again. The best thing you can do as town is to look pro-town. Even if you weren't on the right track when it came to your reads, everyone would see that you are putting in effort to the scumhunt and that you are trying. In other words, you would try to change your meta. If you rolled scum: Since your meta is the same for each game, you could just point out that you played mostly the same as town in other games. You would sit to your same old strategy of sitting back and letting the town kill each other off, just like in NMM 34. So far, the fact that your meta has not changed is pointing more towards the latter theory than the former, which does not spell good for my read on you. If you want to prove to everyone that you are town, you need to be trying to play a better town game, which you have not shown any effort to do so thus far. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
I'm so stupid. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On February 26 2013 08:54 Oatsmaster wrote: Cora, is your scum meta the same as your first game as town meta? I wouldn't like to think that. While I lasted a long time in my first game as scum and was killed N1 in my first game as town (both expressing that I had a pro-town vibe, whether that was true or not), I used a lot more misdirection and was a lot more aggressive in my first game as scum than I was in my first game as town. NMM 33 was not Syl's first game. His first game was NMM 32 (which I did not read so I did not mention it). Where are you going with this? | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On February 26 2013 09:04 Oatsmaster wrote: My point is that regardless on how someone plays, they are not scum because their meta matches their previous town game. They are scum because either their meta is different from their town meta in a scummy way, or similar to their scum meta. Syl, your activity and contribution to this game has been lackluster at best, please step it up if you are town :D First of all Oats, you said the same thing that makes Syl town made Marv scum (matching town meta = scum), which just makes it hilarious that you're backtracking on that now. Anyways, my point is not that Syl is scum because his meta is the same as his town game. In all honesty, his performances as town have been really crap. Here's his record at mafia, copied and pasted from his profile: Newbie Mini Mafia XXXII - Endgamed as VT Newbie Mini Mafia XXXIII - Won as VT Newbie Mini Mafia XXXIV - Won as Mafia Roleblocker Newbie Mini Mafia XXXVII - Lost as VT Themed Game Mafia - Lost as Rubick, the Grand Magus This Town Ain't Big Enough Mafia - ??? Town Record: 1-3 Mafia Record: 1-0 My point was that in the three games that he has played with me, his town play has been very weak. It reflects in his record: 1-3. I'm not going to sugarcoat it, his lurky style is not beneficial towards town. So why does he continue to do it? That's what I do not understand. Wouldn't he be taking matters into his own hands to play better? However, if you look at his scum play, it revolved around the same type of game as his town play. He won in his one game as scum. Why would he not do anything different if he was scum? If it ain't broke, don't fix it, right? The fact that he continues to show the lurky, useless playstyle he has always shown points towards him being scum. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On February 26 2013 06:17 cDgCorazon wrote: A few other things I would like to point out: Oats' play so far has been a bit shaky for me. I already pointed out the fact that he is being inconsistent towards Iamp and other players, but he hasn't made any clear effort to scumhunt. Most of his filter has been directing discussion and debates with others, but he hasn't brought in any clear direction with his posts. He has made several hints to him thinking players are scummy: The points where he has shown doubt and suspicion on another player (and not their arguments) have been thrown out there, but he hasn't put anything behind them. The one time where he expanded on one of these points: Acro's response basically explains how I feel about this: The moment after Oats makes this illogical statement, he tries to get everyone to not think about it: And when he gets challenged on the point, he tries to throw the discussion elsewhere: He's trying to dodge the fact that he made an illogical argument. To me, that is a strong scum tell. He refuses to elaborate on why Marv playing like his town meta makes him scummy because he knows it is a bad argument. Why would scum try to avoid this? They need to make up arguments that are not true so that the town will not vote them off. Why would he make this silly argument in the first place if he wasn't scum? Why would he not own up to his mistake and take the blame for a bad argument and instead try to sidestep it? These are the questions I would love to see Oats answer. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On February 26 2013 09:33 Oatsmaster wrote: Win rate has nothing to do with how good a player you are. I refused to elaborate because it was too early to actually talk about it, I needed more posts from marv to solidify that read as either town or scum. Why did you only ask to change the subject when the fallacy in your logic was discovered? Why have most of your reads been only suspicions and nothing concrete? Come on, you know that that was not my whole argument. Are you trying to dodge again? You need to answer the core of my argument, not just the outside of it. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On February 26 2013 09:38 Oatsmaster wrote: What is the core of your argument, it looks to me like it was my backing down off marv in a suspicious way, in your eyes. Another part of my argument was the fact that you called some people scum or said you have suspicion of them and then did not elaborate on it (Acro, Zare). "Not having anything else to say" or "I need Marv to post more to get a better read" would've been a better way of saying it. The fact that you say it now instead of when you were pressured for it is scummy but you obviously have no choice here, so I won't hold it against you. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
I know I have been a hipster with a few of my scum reads (Syl, Oats), and I also know that if I want to get any of my reads pushed out to the forefront, part of that requires listening to others' reads as well. I would support a Thrawn duel, but I also think that whoever we select to duel should be allowed to select their opponent in the duel. I think this would make it so we would prevent confirmation bias and allow for Thrawn's (or whoever we choose to duel) voice to still be heard even though he/they is/are on the chopping block. Does anyone else have a problem with that? | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On February 26 2013 11:47 Oatsmaster wrote: why Cora? So they can choose lynchbait and get themselves off that way? If they do that we will all know they chose lynchbait and it will make them look even scummier. If you want to ask your top two scumreads to duel, go ahead. Remember that they have to pull the trigger and if they don't, we can't lynch them. That's the dilemma provided to us by the set-up. It's all just set-up speculation. None of us know how this process is going to go. I feel like there is no fair way to go about this whole "dueling" thing, but forcing one person to duel and letting them choose the other seems like the fairest way to go about things. Of course if you don't want to do it fairly you need to convince the town on two scum reads, which seems a lot harder than what I proposed. Do you have any alternatives? | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On February 26 2013 12:19 Snarfs wrote: I agree with Oats on this one. it doesn't make them look scummier because it's impossible for us to say whether they thought the other person was lynchbait, or just mafia. It depends on who the other person chooses to duel with. It's going to be obvious (at this stage) whether they are choosing lynchbait or not. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On February 26 2013 12:16 Oatsmaster wrote: Wait so Acro, you are saying that when the thread agrees on 2 duel candidates, they are not forced to duel each other, yeah sure but how large a fucking scum claim is that? The thing is that EITHER of the them could pull the trigger, so assuming that one is town, one is scum, its gonna happen, scum are forced to duel cause if they dont, they are claiming scum and even 1 for 1 trades arent that good. Other thoughts? There's no way that the whole thread is going to agree on 2 duel candidates, or even a majority of the thread will. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On February 26 2013 12:34 Acrofales wrote: Did you miss the part at the bottom? He has to explain himself. Of course, if 90% of the thread has consolidated on two targets, going against that is going to take some serious explaining, isn't it? If 90% of the thread has consolidated on 2 targets we all have a problem in general. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
Your plan hinges on a lot more variables than the one I proposed (and Acro backs up). | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On February 26 2013 12:43 Snarfs wrote: Also, if thrawn doesn't show up before the next 'X' hours before deadline, what do we do? Just have someone like yamato duel him? If we all agree dodging a duel is an automatic lynch all we need is one person to duel them and we just immediately kill who dodged the duel. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On February 26 2013 12:57 Oatsmaster wrote: Ok so your plan is that we pick the one, and that person picks another to duel? It just screams manipulation to me, like you are giving scum a way out of getting lynched, assuming the one we pick is scum. Currently I dont have another plan, but I just dont think this is a good idea. Your plan screams "no-lynch" to me. At least we have a chance to kill off someone with my plan. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On February 26 2013 13:05 Oatsmaster wrote: My plan is that if no lynch is gonna happen, I will duel my top scumread. Not good because generally my reads are not very good. Maybe this game its different? I dont know. yes I just discredited myself. But no lynch is definitely not happening. The interesting thing is when we do get to that situation where no-lynch is imminent, I think we will start to see some agendas pushed forward. Then we can figure out if they are scum pushed or town pushed. Perhaps that upside of your idea might cover all of the downsides... | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
Dieno also promised more activity in the past few hours but nothing has come out of that. We have 17.5 hours left still, time for things to change. Idk where Zare is, but his silence is deafening as well. However, we can't just sit here and give the lurkers a free pass anymore. One of them is lurking while we sit around and take each other out, that bit has to be true... | ||
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Corazon
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On February 26 2013 14:47 thrawn2112 wrote: What do you propose that we do about it? I propose that we all keep it in mind and that people other than me remind them about it. We should go for them the next cycle because it looks like you all have your hearts set on Thrawn and Kei. I don't think we should stray away from that, but I think we should begin to attack them right after we solve this little debate. | ||
Corazon
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Corazon
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On February 26 2013 11:32 cDgCorazon wrote: I don't mean to change the topic but I'm looking through the last couple of pages and saw that everyone was considering having Thrawn duel. I looked back at his filter and through the arguments against him, and I see the merit in them. I know I have been a hipster with a few of my scum reads (Syl, Oats), and I also know that if I want to get any of my reads pushed out to the forefront, part of that requires listening to others' reads as well. I would support a Thrawn duel, but I also think that whoever we select to duel should be allowed to select their opponent in the duel. I think this would make it so we would prevent confirmation bias and allow for Thrawn's (or whoever we choose to duel) voice to still be heard even though he/they is/are on the chopping block. Does anyone else have a problem with that? | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On February 26 2013 15:02 thrawn2112 wrote: Is that an answer to my question Cor? Your read is explained with "I looked back at his filter and through the arguments against him, and I see the merit in them." There's nothing in your filter about wanting to lynch kei. So for that, you are willing to put both thrawn/kei up for lynch? I'm willing to put you up, and I've said that I'm also willing to let you choose your opponent. So yes, I'm okay with you two going up for a lynch. I'd rather have Sylencia get up here and give us a read but no one is going to go for that. So to answer your question, if you want to go up against Kei, go ahead. If the town wants you to do it, I'm ok as well. I have suspicions about both of you but not as much as Syl so I would like to stick to my main read, however I realize that for the town to function someone is going to have to put their agendas away temporarily to come up with a decision, and for now that person is me. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
Why did you call me out for being cooperative when I'm allowing Thrawn to choose his opponent (which I've championed) and not when I said I was ok with putting Thrawn up to duel? It's just another example of your inconsistent play. You exploit me when I make an error in favor of your enemies, and not when I make the same error in favor of you. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
My reads on Thrawn are the fact that I agree with many of the things that have been said about him. His scumhunting has consisted of Kei (once a flame was lit under his ass) and a few other weak attacks on other players. His scumhunting has not been up to par, and that is why I'm ok with having him be the duelist. If I had a town read on Thrawn, I would not be saying these things. My read on him is slightly scummy, and I want to see him fight for his life in the duel. I've also said that I would like the person being asked to duel given the chance to choose their opponent. We've already talked about all of the other possibilities and this one sounds the best to me still. Thrawn wants to choose Kei (his reasoning is also quite valid, yet words said when accused always lose a bit of power), and I'm ok with his choise of Kei. I would like to see Syl in a duel, but I've said before that I'm not a fan of heroes, and I'm not 100% sure Sylencia is scum. However he is my strongest scum read and I would like to see his actions once a flame has been put under his ass. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
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On February 26 2013 15:29 Oatsmaster wrote: So what are you doing that is helping town now Cora? If we decide on the duel candidates now, when most of the people arnt even in the thread, how does that help town? Not being a prick and refusing to go along with anyone else's plans but mine. Do you really want me to sit here and disagree with you just because it wasn't my idea? I don't need the town to accept my ideas all the time. If I want anyone to listen to my ideas in the future, I need to listen to others' ideas now. I'm setting myself up to have my agenda go forward at the right time. I checked to see if now was the right time with my little push on Sylencia, but it was not agreed upon by anyone else, letting me know that this was not the right time. I'm setting myself up to be taken seriously in the future and to not be thought of as a nuisance and an egocentric person. Is there a problem with that? | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
##Vote: Adam Why am I voting for Adam? The first thing is that I did not like heroes, Adam is trying to take matters into his own hands and is basically defying the wishes of the town to come to a good and informed decision. He's taking matters into his own hands and is basically making a rash and hasty decision for the rest of the town. The second thing is that Adam has been doing all of this proclaiming that being aggressive is pro-town (Yamato never said anything of the sort). In my opinion, he is trying to gain town cred by doing something that he said was pro-town (trying to give himself town cred, as Acro pointed out) and is attacking lynchbait in Kei. If we lynch Kei and he flips town, Adam is just going to say he played like a weak town and that he had us all fooled. I'm not convinced enough on Kei to see him die now. I was only ok with him dueling if it was because Thrawn picked him. I see a lot more scum motivation behind Adam's rashness. The fact that the votes already given out so far are all around the board mean that the chances of a scum being here is pretty high. I hate heroes anyways. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
You're scum just sitting here and letting us kill each other off. Your lack of a read gives me the feeling that there are two townies up on the block, and that you are just choosing one to not look indecisive. Your answers to my arguments are subpar, and your lurking is unacceptable. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On February 27 2013 12:28 thrawn2112 wrote: corazon you're scum aren't you. i really hope you are. Ummm...what? | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
How is any of that not describing Sylencia's play so far? His play is even worse in the fact that he hasn't done any scumhunting and is lurking hardcore. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
If one of them is scum, I think it's more likely to be Adam trying to give himself free town cred by dueling Kei, and the fact that if we lynch Kei and he flips town, Adam can just base his play as being weak and that he was just a going after his scum read. Kei was also a pretty good "lynch bait" with his actions as well, and Adam jumping on "lynch bait" is really scummy as well. If they are both town, Adam is being the more useless town by going gung-ho and trying to be a hero. I've already said that we don't need any heroes, and yet Adam goes out and decides to play the role of the hero. Even if he is town, it's still an anti-town move by preventing us from using the full time we have for discussion and diverting attention away from other possible (and definitely better) duelists such as Thrawn and Syl. I don't want to lynch both of them because if they both flip town, that would set the town back very much. The difference between a MYLO and a LYLO is huge, and I'd rather keep Kei around and see if he can turn his game around than let Adam run loose and do whatever he wants. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On February 27 2013 13:54 Sylencia wrote: OK. I'm only making this quick post now because I caught onto it while stuff's compiling. Thrawn: I'll answer your question when I get home since that requires some more depth. Corazon: Cool story. Are you fucking kidding me Syl. Just because I'm not 100% proclaimed townie by everyone else does not mean you have the power to dodge my arguments. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
Town Syl would see the flaws in his town game and try to improve on them. Scum Syl would see how well this strategy works as scum (especially in a super active game where the town were at each other's throats from the get-go) and continue to play the same type of game. Your behavior makes you look slightly scummy. The fact that you still have not changed your meta makes you look REALLY scummy. Questions I would like you to answer: Why are you lurking? Why have you refused to give any scum reads or suspicions (your vote for Adam did not count because you basically went on the fence)? Why have you not tried to improve on your play, especially after your role in town's defeat in NMM 37? | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
@Thrawn: I'm not imposing that Syl plays a certain style, I'm saying that Syl should have learned from his mistakes as town by now. Have you read any of Syl's games? If not, I suggest you read NMM 37 and then wonder why he has not compensated for his bad play as town. Do you have a town read on Syl? | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
Let's forget my meta argument for a second. Let's take a look at what he has done this game: -Lurked at multiple important points in the game (he has 13 posts when many of us have 60+) -Many of his posts are short, have no real point, and are of no value to the town -Promised scum reads but never delivered on them -Trying to fly under the radar, only brought out when someone asks for it -Sits on the middle of the fence for this lynch, showing he does not really care about the lynch It has scum written all over it. Is there anything I'm missing? | ||
Corazon
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Corazon
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On February 27 2013 15:10 Snarfs wrote: I think Sylencia's posts imply Keir has a much higher chance of being scum. (If you think Sylencia is scum). He said he had a "null read" on Keir and just voted before Keir did anything to swing that one way or the other. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On February 26 2013 18:31 Sylencia wrote: The sad thing is that I don't see Adam being scum, but just a detriment to town. Regarding Keir, I feel like he's pretty much on the same area as I am, not much from him but the fact he's argued with Adam meant that he's been put up for a duel. I'm still null on Keir, but if this is the way Adam wants to play I don't think it's exactly going to help us out in the long run. ##Vote: Adam Sure our reasoning is similar, but he hasn't shown why he has no interest in the lynch, while I have made it clear and concise who I think is scum and who I wanted to see be lynched. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On February 27 2013 15:25 Snarfs wrote: ...well if that's what I'm doing then what I'm doing is not what I'm trying to do -_-. I'm just trying to figure out why Corazon is voting Adam if his top scumread, Sylencia, is voting Adam in a manner that scum would be attempting to subtly kill off a townie (please note, this does not look anything like a bus). At the same time, this only makes sense if Cora truly believes that Keir is town. How can he truly believe Keir is town at this point in the game? First of all Snarfs, it is what you are doing. Just admit it. Secondly, Sylencia is not voting off Adam for any reason other than to say that he voted for someone. I've put the evidence down to support that. I don't believe Keir is fully town based off of anything. I think they are town based off of Syl's weak vote. I'm voting for who I think is the most useless townie (which is Adam and his hung-ho mentality). Don't get me wrong, I would love to vote for a no-lynch. However, this option is not available, and I refuse to let two people die because if they are both town (which I am leaning towards that persuasion) then we have just given scum a lot more ground than we can already not afford to give them. Sylencia's vote is so weak that it really could've gone the other way had Kei suddenly dueled Adam instead of vice-versa. With his reasoning, his vote could've easily have been on Kei. It's non-commital, which is why I refuse to accept any association cases that are more specific than the one where I think they are both town when it comes to any attacks on my vote. I've already outlined my vote, and to answer the question you will have of "Why are you voting with your top scum read? On February 27 2013 15:22 cDgCorazon wrote: Sure our reasoning is similar, but he hasn't shown why he has no interest in the lynch, while I have made it clear and concise who I think is scum and who I wanted to see be lynched. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On February 27 2013 15:37 yamato77 wrote: Have you proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that Sylencia is mafia? No. Then it's a bad association case. The guy does fuck all as town. I lost a game as town because of his propensity to lurk and be useless. There's zero indication to me that he's CONFIRMED MAFIA and we should get off the person he wants to vote for. The only question here is if you're really dumb enough to push this sort of logic or if you're mafia attempting to manipulate the lynch. Is this to me or Snarfs? | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On February 27 2013 15:44 Snarfs wrote: You're not following me. If I believe that Sylencia is mafia. And I believe that Sylencia wants Adam dead. And I DON'T believe that Sylencia is busing Adam. ----------------------------------------------------- Then I should conclude that Adam is town. Corazon is missing one of these. That's all I'm saying and trying to figure out why. Where in Sylencia's vote post do you see him "wanting Adam dead"? | ||
Corazon
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Seriously he told you not to use a bad association case and you reply with a bad association case...you didn't even stop to consider his point. | ||
Corazon
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On February 27 2013 15:03 cDgCorazon wrote: So you have a null read on him? Let's forget my meta argument for a second. Let's take a look at what he has done this game: -Lurked at multiple important points in the game (he has 13 posts when many of us have 60+) -Many of his posts are short, have no real point, and are of no value to the town -Promised scum reads but never delivered on them -Trying to fly under the radar, only brought out when someone asks for it -Sits on the middle of the fence for this lynch, showing he does not really care about the lynch It has scum written all over it. Is there anything I'm missing? The fact that you are in Australia should not have a huge impact on your ability to contribute. I've been able to have constant back and forth with Mocsta (also from Australia) in every game I've played with him. The timezones should not be an issue here. Even if you have limited time to play, you could have at least shown that you are having an interest in this scum hunt and that you should not be forced to give a read (one that's basically copying me) when one asks. You should take the initiative to look pro-town. When it comes to posts: High Quality and High Quantity= Generally Town High Quality but Low Quantity= Generally Town Low Quality but High Quantity= Scum Low Quality and Low Quantity= Scum If you are truly having a lack of time to discuss every single point, you needed to be more practice. The bolded one is what you could be doing with your limited time and what would help town. The underlined one is what you are doing, which is not helping town. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
I'm still way against having both of them die because having them both flip town would set us back by a giant margin. It's really Adam's fault for giving us this crappy option when it comes to the lynch, and if they both are town at least I sent a message that I'm not going to accept stupid town play. So thank you Adam. If you die because of your stupid decision you will know next time that heroes aren't welcome here. Check your cape at the door. | ||
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Fuck it, I'm tired of sitting here and posturing for the next day. If Kei flips town I just know my agenda is going to be set back for a really long time...but I refuse to see a double lynch. ##unvote ##Vote: Kei | ||
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On February 28 2013 06:34 Alderan wrote: Can someone please tell me why we're giving town reads during the night period? Can someone tell me why we are giving off town reads at all? When someone asks it's ok but N0 everyone gave off town reads unnecessarily... | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On February 28 2013 07:33 thrawn2112 wrote: we have less than 48 hours to pick another duel. so what if we vote on who we want to duel, and they get to chose their opponent? As long as we vote for Syl to duel, I'm fine with whoever he chooses. I really think Dieno/Syl is the best duel, but they are probably going to refuse to duel each other. Plus Syl will lurk and not even know he's supposed to duel until it is too late. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On February 28 2013 07:42 Alderan wrote: a) Why would they refuse to duel each other? They're both the scummiest of the bunch. Gives them the best chance for survival. b) I don't trust Syl to make the pick. I think Dieno should be the one to initiate the duel. I really don't trust either of them to pick each other. I think if one of these players does not pick the other I will lynch the player who initiated the duel. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On February 28 2013 07:50 Acrofales wrote: What's that supposed to mean. You going to make a case on me, or just keep cracking stupid jokes? Well that certainly shut him up... | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
The only occasion where you could duel someone is if Syl/Dieno refuse to duel each other and then we would systematically kill off both of them. There's already suspicion that you could be a 3P with a duel requirement. The more times you threaten to duel, the greater the suspicion will be. Just because Kei flipped scum doesn't make you a fucking God and we will let you do whatever you want. I pushed my scum reads on Syl back one day, I'm not having you coming in and making me wait even longer. I'm pretty sure others will agree with me on this: If you are town, take a step back and let others do the work. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On February 28 2013 14:21 Acrofales wrote: Can we get a 3rd instant majority lynch option for explicitly wanting a double lynch? I second this. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
Anyways, if you want to duel me, you're going to have to clear it with the thread first. It's a bit obvious right now that the thread wants to see you and Dieno duel. I don't think anyone would take kindly to you just deciding you want to duel me. I've been scumhunting (you, Oats, Yamato early on), whereas you simply haven't. What happened to your suspicion on Oats? It's amazing that you've decided not to talk about him in your post. Is he town to you now, or have you realized your suspicions are completely wrong and have to resort to OMGUS to realize that you need to look like you are scumhunting? In case you haven't noticed, I said that "High Quality, Low Quantity" post types is still a town tell. If you're going to sit here and tell me that you have limited time, why don't you post more posts like your last big one? It was a decent quality post, and if your whole filter looked like that, I would be less inclined to call you scum. However, much of your early filter is just one-liners and posts that feign activeness when you're really just lurking. Lastly, why do you have to post your scum reads when you are dragged out of your hiding spot by your ear? Your lack of proactiveness is ridiculously scummy as well. @Hapa: Why would I switch off a vote that was most likely going to be deadlocked and letting a non-scum and a scum die to just have my supposed "scum-buddy" die? That doesn't make any sense. I wasn't focusing on Thrawn and Kei D1, I was more focused on Oats and Syl when it came to my scumhunting. The latter half of the duel consisted of us talking about people other than the duelists. I just decided to end it and instead of scumhunting with a hint towards the future, we speed things up and force the other scum to come out of their holes instead of sitting there and having a vote deadlock. In all honesty my switch from Adam is going to look scummy either way. If I had stayed on Adam I would've looked scummy for refusing to switch to a scum. I decided to switch and we lynched a scum. Let's have a party. On another note, if I had said "I'm switching cause I felt like it", would you have a town read on me? | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
However, I need to have another look at your filter to see if my read on you has changed since the last time. I will do that after school. No one needs a long post of my town and null reads. I just make scum reads unless asked for a town/null read. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On March 01 2013 00:44 Oatsmaster wrote: Um I didnt ask for a list. Lol. You do that Cora :D You seem to have something stuck up your ass, you need to chill out :D I'm not trying to OMGUS you, if that's what you are implying =P | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
@Hapa: Why would I switch off a vote that was most likely going to be deadlocked and letting a non-scum and a scum die to just have my supposed "scum-buddy" die? That doesn't make any sense. I wasn't focusing on Thrawn and Kei D1, I was more focused on Oats and Syl when it came to my scumhunting. The latter half of the duel consisted of us talking about people other than the duelists. I just decided to end it and instead of scumhunting with a hint towards the future, we speed things up and force the other scum to come out of their holes instead of sitting there and having a vote deadlock. In all honesty my switch from Adam is going to look scummy either way. If I had stayed on Adam I would've looked scummy for refusing to switch to a scum. I decided to switch and we lynched a scum. Let's have a party. On another note, if I had said "I'm switching cause I felt like it", would you have a town read on me? | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On March 01 2013 07:28 Adam4167 wrote: This is about my 16th or so game, so still more than keirathi, according to his profile. Regardless.. Deino needs to flip. That will give me a very good indication as to yourself, considering how you were defending him on D1. Deino flips scum, the remaining scum will probably be yourself and one of Zare/Yamato - as per my reads post. You don't think Syl is scum? | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
So as long as he doesn't do anything "bad", you're still not going to have a scum read on him? | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
##Vote: Sylencia. Here is a quick summary: On February 27 2013 15:03 cDgCorazon wrote: So you have a null read on him? Let's forget my meta argument for a second. Let's take a look at what he has done this game: -Lurked at multiple important points in the game (he has <20 posts when many of us have 60+) -Many of his posts are short, have no real point, and are of no value to the town -Promised scum reads but never delivered on them -Trying to fly under the radar, only brought out when someone asks for it -Sits on the middle of the fence for [The Kei] lynch, showing he does not really care about the lynch It has scum written all over it. Is there anything I'm missing? I don't understand why you guys are voting for Dieno right now. If you think about it, a Sylencia lynch or a double lynch would give us the most information. Who are the three most suspicious players in this game? Me Syl Dieno If you guys sit here and lynch Dieno off, you get very little about my alignment (only the fact that I'm not voting for Dieno), and we would sit here and ask questions about me and Syl for another day and basically waste a Day (unless of course Dieno comes back as scum). If you guys lynch Sylencia, you guys get his flip and get information about both his and my alignment from the flip. It seems like a no-brainer to me. I'd love to see a double lynch, but if we are going to choose one person, I'd rather it be Syl. If he flips town, I'm ok dueling whoever you guys choose next. That's my promise. Lastly: @Acro: KISS | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
##Vote: Sylencia | ||
Corazon
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Corazon
United States3230 Posts
@Syl: If we lynch Dieno, we are going to know his alignment. The problem with finding out his alignment first is that it is going to open us up to a ridiculous amount of association cases between me and you. Do we really want that? I don't think so. @Adam: I don't understand why we are all so convinced there aren't two scum here. It's a huge risk for scum, but if we have 66% or 100% of the scum team here, I think they would definitely need to take a risk as crazy as this in the hopes that we lynch one of them and allow the other one a "clean slate" really. If we are all assuming that one is scum and the other is town, we are all setting ourselves up to be duped by at least one scum player. I really think we need to double lynch. Even if we don't get 2 scum, we send the message that the town is not afraid to cut dead weight and distractions. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
Double Lynch Sylencia Dieno Why do I still want the double lynch so badly? There are a couple of reasons for it: First of all, I think that Sylencia and Dieno have played really similar games. They've both lurked heavily throughout the first part of the game. They only talk when asked to come out and talk. They both have given either non-existant or weak scum reads. They've both refused to be pro-active in the scum hunt and let others give and take the heat without doing anything themselves. They're both playing scummy games, to say the least. Second of all, I think that Dieno's terrible argument on Syl is a ploy. Let's imagine for a minute that the scum team is at least made up of Kei, Syl, and Dieno. They've all set-up absolutely terrible N0's and D1's so far, and they've already lost a teammate. It would be hard for them to get town cred by giving reads out because we could just sit there and say that they gave them to us because we asked for them. Since it was pretty obvious that we've had our hearts set out on a Dieno/Syl duel today, they decided that that one of them would bus the other. Dieno then goes on to make a really weak argument against Syl to look like he's really scum. If we vote Dieno off and he does flip scum, Syl gets a clean slate from everyone. He's allowed to sit here and make a terrible association case that I'm scum based off of Dieno's flip and the chain of association cases (him assuming Dieno's alignment ≠ Syl's Alignment ≠ my alignment, which means I would be whatever Dieno flipped). I believe that it's just a ploy to give Syl town cred and allow him to make up for his crappy play just because he dueled a scum and won. Third of all, if we just lynch Dieno, we still have the question of me and Syl. I'm not suggesting it's an information lynch if we kill Sylencia, I'm saying that if we do not kill off Sylencia, we are going to sit here and waste a duel (and give the scum and extra NK) trying to find scum between Sylencia and I. If we lynch Syl and he flips green, I'm going to be the next one to duel that other possible scum that is in one of the more active townies and get the scum hunt going, instead of spending 2 days pondering the Cora vs. Sylencia debate. It's not an information lynch, it's a time-saving lynch. In other words, a Dieno lynch would leave us with more questions than a Syl or double lynch would. If I was scum, I would not be pushing this aggressive for Syl's lynch. I would be sitting here and milking my scumread of Syl so I could keep the rest of you from voting me out while I try to stay alive as much as possible. I would not have been the first one to suggest a Syl/Dieno duel. I'm sticking my neck out here because I have a big feeling that Syl is scum. I'm a bit disappointed that all of my work is going to just be ignored because Dieno makes one crappy argument about Syl and I don't understand why said crappy argument is giving everyone a town read on Syl when he's playing just as scummy as Dieno. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On March 02 2013 05:44 Acrofales wrote: Dieno's argument has absolutely nothing to do with why people don't want to lynch Sylencia. You have a few more hours to convince me that Sylencia's play is so completely different from his play in NMM 37 that it makes him scum, even if I believe Dieno is also scum. Why would anyone with a town win-con try to emulate Syl's game from NMM 37, especially Syl himself? | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On March 02 2013 06:08 Acrofales wrote: You act as if changing your playstyle is easy. I'm pretty sure actually trying to post and trying to scumhunt is not a hard thing to do... | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On March 02 2013 06:17 Acrofales wrote: Tell that to... oh, I dunno. Grush. Some people never change. I just don't understand why everyone says they think Syl is scummy and then when it comes time to vote they don't even want to vote for him... Obviously Dieno is playing really scummy too but a double lynch is still an option. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On March 02 2013 07:43 Acrofales wrote: In fact, that whole Zarepath post makes me think he's scum and wants to steer this ship into a double mislynch. But lets verify that by killing Dieno. 1. The reads don't add up. Firstly he says he prefers Dieno. Why? He's been after Sylencia's blood all game, yet somehow before the duel started his strongest scumread flipped to Dieno. And something since the duel started has made him less sure of Dieno. It just all seems like a hastily thrown together justification for wanting to double-lynch. There is no reasoning and it doesn't add up with his earlier ideas. 2. "We'd know exactly who to look at from there". Lets say we double-lynch and they both flip town. Honestly, it would rock my world way too much and I have no clue who I'd look at. Except now Zarepath. The whole post reaks of scum trying to justify being absent all day and needing to come up with the vagues possible reason to throw his weight behind a lynch. This is true regardless of what colour Dieno flips. The post just screams scum. It screams "I don't care what happens with this lynch". That is scummy even if Dieno is scum, because with the thread sentiment it's clear he cannot save Dieno. And I'm not scummy for wanting a double lynch? | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
No not really, I've kind of grouped him in with the other two when it comes to their play (especially the lurking). But the fact that you think he's scummy for wanting a double lynch and that I'm not scummy for wanting a double lynch is a bit inconsistent. However, you probably have good reasons for it. If you only lynch Dieno are you going to just ignore me and Syl and go after Zare next? | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On February 28 2013 15:31 Hapahauli wrote: People Who Voted Adam (Sylencia +Dienosaur) They've played almost identically so far: they've done a whole lot of nothing in the early game, then plopped an early vote on Adam at the beginning of the voting cycle, then proceeded to do much of nothing until now. They're both lurkers who haven't made any significant commitments and had their vote in awful places. I want both of them to duel tomorrow, and I'd push for a double-lynch unless I get convinced that one of them is town. People who SWITCHED from Adam to Kei (Yamato + Oatsmaster + Corazon) Corazon Pretty simple. Starts the day off on Adam: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=398360¤tpage=38#747 Then spends a lot of time going after Syl. What's notable, is that Corazon really never bothers to analyze Kei's filter. His attitude on Kei is one of neutrality and hesitation: Eventually when opinions of the town start to shift, Corazon arrives at the idea that both Adam and Kei are town... due to Sylencia's vote on Adam?!?!?!? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=398360¤tpage=48#956 He argues that Sylencia being non-committal makes both of them not scum, which makes zero sense. It's not scumhunting, it's a complete cop-out from doing any analysis Then shortly after, there's his vote post: Why would a townie care about "posturing" for tomorrow? A townie wants to hunt and kill scum. I don't think he's talking about "posturing" of other townies either, since he mentions an agenda. This also makes no sense - why would Kei flipping town set back his agenda of lynching Syl? In fact Kei flipping town would seemingly confirm his theory that Syl's indecision = both Adam/Kei are town. So Corazon's actions line up with mafia objectives, and his switch onto Kei is very suspect. He never gives a strong opinion on Kei, and his vote-post is nonsensical. On March 01 2013 04:07 Acrofales wrote: Cora: the early impression I got that he was actively trying to figure stuff out is kinda gone. He falls in the group of people who are wishy-washy on the lynch vote. He wants to kill Adam, but thinks both are probably town. However, I really disliked his answer to why he was voting alongside his strongest scumread. If you have a town read on both and a scumread on your fellow voter, why not switch to the other townie (unless he thought Sylencia was bussing)? Now that that other guy has flipped red, it looks pretty bad. Sylencia: would have been surefire scum, but I can't shake the feeling that he's just lurky town caught on the wrong end of the lynch. He needs to be forced into the spotlight, and I think he'll show red. However, it is very hard to discern his playstyle this game from his play last game, where he was town. IMPORTANT: Sylencia and Cora are not scum together. There is no way they have set up this double bus, given Sylencia's activity level and the early death of Keirathi. On March 01 2013 01:58 zarepath wrote: Honestly, based just off of votes, scum likelihood from my perspective is like this (in descending order): Dienosore Sylencia Corazon | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
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Corazon
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On March 02 2013 09:27 Acrofales wrote: Cora, move on. Everybody else has. Shit gets reevaluated all the time. Lets assume Dieno flips scum. You think Syl is also scum. That leaves one more. Who is the last scum? Are we also assuming there is 4 scum? | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
Well Zare is someone I've grouped in with Sylencia and Dieno when it comes to play (as I've said before), but I feel like I need to reevaluate everyone else before I go on the record with any other suspicions. It would be too easy if all the scum were playing terrible games. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On March 02 2013 10:27 Acrofales wrote: Why is Zare and his 5-page filter grouped in with the people lurking so hard you can't get a read on them (and I'd say Dieno is readable, it's just a scum read)? His "5 pages" consist of a lot of one-liner posts and one-liner questions. However, there's a reason I don't have him in my top two scum reads, and that is because his play has improved a decent amount since his lurking phase. However, his posts haven't had a great sense of direction either. He said that Adam is scummy for calling the duel on Kei so early, and then says that he does not see any scum motivation in Adam's actions. His main form of scumhunting has also been two list posts, which does not really help the town at all. His reads are also based on the flavors of the day (Dieno, Syl, me. Just like everyone else), which really has me suspicious that he is just trying to blend in and look townie. However, this lynch is still about Syl and Dieno, so we shouldn't spend too much time posturing on people outside of the lynch. Who knows, this could still go on for awhile if enough people are into a double lynch still. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On March 02 2013 10:49 Oatsmaster wrote: What more do you want to discuss about Syl and Dieno if they arent in the thread? Well would you like to get so ahead of ourselves that we decide the next duel before we finish this one? | ||
Corazon
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Corazon
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This all just screams of a purposely weak bus in order to give Syl some free town cred and give him a blank slate. I think Thrawn has the right idea in still putting the pressure on Syl. However, Dieno has bought you some time Syl. Here is your chance to prove that you deserve the town cred Dieno has given you. Come up with some strong reads and perhaps my read on you can change. The ball is in your court in deciding whether we want to get past this or if you're going to distract us and drag us down again. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On March 02 2013 13:26 Oatsmaster wrote: Cora. How is syl scum with Dieno? That is the thing im struggling with. It does not make sense to put them both up because there is no upside for scum other than 'town cred'. Which is never gonna happen, especially with a player as scummy as Syl. That said, I would like to see reads from Sylencia. Because we chose the Syl/Dieno lynch even before Kei's flip. It's quite possible that they had to choose one to take the fall and try to keep the other one alive. Syl would be the better choice to bus Dieno than the other way around because I was the main one attacking Syl and my standing within the town has been shaky. If Syl is scummy too why in the world did you not lynch them both? You guys are sitting here talking about how scummy Syl is when we just had his lynch on a silver platter and you guys said no. It's almost like you are all teasing me now... Either say Syl is scum and lynch him or tell me he's town. Not wanting to lynch your scum reads is scummy in itself. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On March 02 2013 13:35 Oatsmaster wrote: Yes he is scummy, but is he scum? I dont think that scum wouldve felt that way. At all. Think about it. If you were in the scumteam. You woud think of, hey lets put up our 2 scummier players and let the scummiest one initiate the duel. Hopefully they dont double lynch or still think that Syl is scummy after it. Doesnt make sense right? With probably half the scum team gone, association cases are valid. Don't call it scummy, call it bad town then. If you want to resort to association cases, are you going to come out and say I'm scum? | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On March 02 2013 13:36 thrawn2112 wrote: Mafia zare, syl For all of you asking why syl could be mafia..... well why not? The entire thread was screaming for them to duel each other, do you really think that two scum won't duel each other if you yell at them enough? And Syl's play has definitely not improved during the duel. In fact dieno probably put more of an effort in once the duel started. Syl still doesn't have reads.... etc. Just read any page of Cora's filter and you will get a good idea of why lynching syl is stilla good idea. THRAWN I LOVE YOU | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On March 02 2013 13:45 Acrofales wrote: Fixing that for you, thrawn: Town adam, Thrawn, Aldeeran, Oats, Corazon, Syl WTF Hapa, Snarfs, yamato Mafia zare God I can't believe you're letting Dieno fool you... | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On March 02 2013 13:48 Oatsmaster wrote: Ok Cora, lets say you are the 3rd scum member. What is the upside of this plan? It doesnt make syl look better with the way he played, it doesnt make you better(possibly), and a scum would definetly get lynched. There is no upside. So you believe Syl and I have the same alignment? | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On March 02 2013 13:48 Oatsmaster wrote: Ok Cora, lets say you are the 3rd scum member. What is the upside of this plan? It doesnt make syl look better with the way he played, it doesnt make you better(possibly), and a scum would definetly get lynched. There is no upside. If it doesn't make Syl look better, than he's scum. Seriously Oats tell me you think he's town. Don't give me this "he's scum but he's town" crap. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
"Syl is scum but he's not" "Cora is town but he's not" Make up your fucking mind. | ||
Corazon
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Corazon
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On March 02 2013 14:01 Oatsmaster wrote: Acro: Not really and that means I should stop getting on his back right. I need to look at normal mini IV though. His most recent scum game. Cora, the reason he wouldnt give up as scum is because that means he LOSES the game. As town, he is one of many, and isnt the sole or even main reason town loses. Cora you arent making sense now. You didnt address my association at all and just keep harping that he is scummy and therefore he is scum. It beats harping that he is scummy and that makes him town... | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
Here's what's going to happen: Unless Syl improves his play, he is going to be in the duel tomorrow, whether he's in it with someone else, or he's in it with me. Savvy? | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On March 02 2013 14:39 thrawn2112 wrote: Cor what's wrong with this plan? We're in a good enough position that we can delay lynching syl to clear up other stuff first. No. We should not have delayed lynching Syl. Now you guys are sitting here and saying Syl is scummy but you're not going to lynch him. It's stupid. I told you that not double lynching was going to give us more questions than answers. We're going to solve this question now because you all refused to solve it before. I'm tired of having my voice drowned out by the veterans and not being taken seriously. You all should not have dangled a Syl lynch in front of me and then taken it away. This duel will give us a lot more clarity and set you all up (cause I don't expect to live if I duel him) to have an easier time finding scum than saying "What if the last scum is Syl" everytime you make a read... | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
If Syl flips town, then you can quit worrying about him, and it's going to set the tone that I'm not going to stand for crappy town play. If he has not learned by now that lurking isn't good, then he needs to reevaluate his priorities when it comes to playing Mafia. I'd love to play with him when he is not busy, but right now he's just dragging us down. Sorry Syl <3 | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On March 02 2013 14:47 Acrofales wrote: Lets all help Cora's ego along a bit: I hereby solemnly pledge that if you prematurely duel Syl, I will vote for you. I solemnly pledge that I won't care. | ||
Corazon
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Corazon
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On March 02 2013 14:57 Acrofales wrote: And then when we lynch that someone else you will be ranting and railing the next day. Just stow away your ego and find the 4th scum. No. All I've asked is for you guys to lynch Syl. I'm not the only one who has said Syl was scum. This is what I'm talking about when I ask nicely to be taken seriously. Now I'm threatening to throw some weight around. Deal with it, unless you want me to. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
I'm ok with Syl and Zare dueling. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On March 02 2013 14:27 cDgCorazon wrote: God I'm sick of you all being close-minded to a desperation attempt by scum. I sat there all of D1 and threw my Syl read on the back burner to allow Thrawn/Kei or Adam/kei. Then I suggest it again and you all say he is scum, yet don't vote for him. Now that we have lynched another scum, you decide that he is scummy but is town. That is a contradiction in itself. I don't like being messed with and I'm done not being taken seriously. Here's what's going to happen: Unless Syl improves his play, he is going to be in the duel tomorrow, whether he's in it with someone else, or he's in it with me. Savvy? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8ymuoSly_Q | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On March 03 2013 00:37 Adam4167 wrote: No, you double lynch Yamato and Acro. If they wont play along, you single lynch them one day at a time. No, you take me seriously. We could've avoided this problem had you all double lynched yesterday... | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On March 03 2013 00:40 Adam4167 wrote: I have never not taken you seriously. I have never not had a town read on Sylencia. Why would I let you kill someone I have a town read on. How in the world do you have a town read on Sylencia? In all honesty your read is based off of the first 3 hours of the game. That makes no sense. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On March 03 2013 00:44 Oatsmaster wrote: Wait why Acro? Also Cora. You dont get to be a hero when you criticized it earlier. So please bring it back after we mislynch like 2 times. Once again, you all could've settled this earlier. The fact that you all did not double lynch is absolutely atrocious, and this is your punishment... | ||
Corazon
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Corazon
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On March 03 2013 03:49 Oatsmaster wrote: What do you think about acro and yamato dueling? Do you think either of them is scum/town/3P? I'm really sorry I took so long in answering this, I really could not look at a filter for a minute without getting a massive headache. If I had to choose between Acro and Yamato to lynch, I would choose Yamato because overall Acro's posts and activity have been more town-oriented (besides the fact that he spent so much time worrying about Adam being 3P. I felt like it was a possibility but thought otherwise when I actually put my brain to it). Yamato has been a bit more erratic in his posting: His posts are more one-liners (but I expect that's his style) and he hasn't done as much of a job fueling the discussion as Acro has. The recent point that has me worried about Yamato is this exchange right here: On March 03 2013 04:14 yamato77 wrote: Lol, have two townies duel and double lynch them This is hilarious. You guys kill my motivation to play. On March 03 2013 04:15 Oatsmaster wrote: So you dont think Acro is scum? Then why did you go all crazy last night about wanting to duel him at the crack of dawn? Seriously Yamato, what are you doing? On March 03 2013 04:20 yamato77 wrote: No, I just don't randomly duel people out of nowhere. But whatever, tomorrow at dawn I will duel Hapa and we can lynch mafia. You guys are silly and think I'm mafia, so I'll duel someone and you can lynch me if it pleases you. I'm getting tired of arguing with people anyway. He literally just said that he wanted Acro dead and now he has randomly decided to flip towards Hapa. Where is the thought process in this? When pressured by Oats, he just shrugs it off and yells at people for arguing with him. He then goes on to post an unnecessarily long post about how Snarfs is town. I don't get that. That really looks like he is trying to look like he is scumhunting when in reality he is just making showy posts about how Snarfs is town (That post could've been summed up in like 4 sentences. We didn't need all of the quotes and the whole long post). His scumhunting has been all over the place. The fact that he is going "Acro is mafia, Hapa is mafia, Zare is mafia" does not make any sense to me. He's just wandering around trying to look like he is scum hunting, and that is scummy in itself. I'm still confused about his read on Acro but I want to see Yamato in a duel so we can get his "real scum reads" from him. I hope they're better than "Dieno and Kei"... I'm sorry if it's hard to read, still need to put myself together. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On March 03 2013 07:25 HiroPro wrote: Night post will most likely be late today. Actions are still due at 12:53 site (KST) time. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
"Let's kill Acro!" "Acro is town!" Seriously? Second of all, your read on Zare looked like you were trying to give a scumread on him without actually saying it. If you thought he was town, you would've said so. If you thought he was scum, you wouldn't be dueling Hapa. You would be trying to convince us that we should have a Zare/Hapa duel, not just randomly pulling the trigger. This lynch is going to be easy... | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On March 03 2013 15:56 Sylencia wrote: You asked this question to me in NMM37, so how about I ask you the same question: Who are your scum reads and why - excluding myself. My post about Acro and Yamato has about a hundred times the scum hunting you've done in both this game and NMM 37, so I think it is your turn first. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On March 04 2013 00:50 Oatsmaster wrote: No, your reads since you are here. What benefit does town get by you withholding your reads because you want to piss off syl? Then pressure Syl when he gets here for crying out loud. I want to see Zare's vote. Yamato just implied he was scum without saying it. Zare has been lurking and taking very popular opinions this game. It really looks like scum blending in. Elsewhere, Yamato spent and unnecessarily long time calling Snarfs town, and Snarfs called Yamato town basically because he was reciprocating Yamato's read. Snarfs also has been lurking and taking popular opinions, and has not done much scumhunting. I think the votes here will be very telling for who is scum and who is not. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On March 04 2013 01:28 Acrofales wrote: I see absolutely no reason to rush into hammering Yamato. I think the duel is very weird and am trying to figure out whether the way that happened makes him more likely town or scum. The first part of this post somewhat corresponds to what has been going through my mind since people have been thinking I'm scum and particularly this thought process has been making me want to duel someone. So I can fully understand Yamato taking this stance from a town perspective. So the fact that he dueled is unsurprising. Also the fact that he decided it made more sense to pick his own opponent. Sure, he jumped the gun, but if he's town, this makes sense: he wants to duel someone he thinks is scum, not be dueled by someone he might have a town read on. I cannot make sense of this move as a scummer. Another thing I can't make much sense of is why he backed down on me if he's scum. He had me pretty much where he wanted me. Adam, Snarfs and Alderan were all on board the Acro=scum train. It was starting to go places. Why flip that read? However, everything I said in my night post also holds. There's a reason I would rather have seen Zapa get dueled. The way the duel happened is making me reconsider Yamato. Hammering him quickly without considering this kind of stuff seems stupid. | ||
Corazon
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Corazon
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On March 04 2013 02:43 Acrofales wrote: I get the feeling you're defaulting to Yamato being scum BECAUSE Hapa is town. That makes no sense to me. As for Yamato's case, I really don't want to comment on it too much before Hapa gets back here to address it. I think it has some interesting points and I feel the whole situation merits discussion before we just jump in and lynch someone. On March 04 2013 02:44 Acrofales wrote: Oats: why are you against discussion? "I really don't want to discuss anything, but why do you not want to discuss anything Oats?" | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On March 04 2013 03:16 Acrofales wrote: Yeah, lets take cheap potshots twisting my words. I am happy to discuss pretty much everything, but there is a reason I want Hapa to comment on Yamato's case, because I can think of many different reasons for lots of the things he said. If Hapa is scum and we all go around making up reasons why Hapa did what he did, all he has to do is come into the thread and say "yeah, what Jimmy said is what I thought about that at the time". However, Oats seemed deadset on lynching Yamato before Hapa is even back in the thread. THAT is what I meant with avoiding discussion. Cora, what is your opinion of Hapa? And while we're at it, what do you think of Oats? I'm pretty sure my vote shows my opinion of both Yamato and Hapa. Oats is a bit more iffy for me. I've made some earlier posts attacking him earlier (middle of page 3 on my filter), but I pursued my read of Syl and kind of backed off on Oats. I'm thinking that he is a weak town read at best, a weak scum read at worst. However, this lynch is not about Oats. It's about Yamato and Hapa. Yamato has not addressed the arguments I made against him and decided to just go out and duel Hapa. What else can I say without him giving any rebuff to my arguments? | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
Explain: -Your 180 on Acro -Your unnecessarily long town read on Snarfs (basically, did you need to do that?) -Your ambiguous read on Zare (is he scummy or not?) -Your feeling to just duel Hapa without allowing him to refute your arguments. Please and thank you. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
##unvote I'd like to point out that Hapa's two biggest arguments were with confirmed VT's (Iamp and Thrawn). He attacked them, and then randomly decided to back off of them for really silly reasons (iamp for no reason at all and Thrawn for one action he did during D1). Part of me wants to think that Iamp, Marv and Thrawn were right. The other part wants time to think about it. Perhaps after Spanish homework... | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
I don't think it's possible, I think that it is probable. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On March 04 2013 10:34 Hapahauli wrote: Funny you say "long-term" - I'm like the worst option for a long-term scum team member ever. In the last two scum games I've played, I've explicitly told my buddies to bus me early on the basis that there's rarely a good explanation for why I'd be alive in the late game. Lol is that your defense? First of all, why would another scum tell Kei and Dieno, players who had been pegged as scum 36 hours into the game, to bus them? That would accomplish nothing and the smallest association case could see that as a bus. Pointing out the fact that you would be the worst option for a long-term scum member as a defense is scummy as well. Pointing to things that give you town cred is basically trying to wave a giant sign over your head saying "don't lynch me I'm obviously town". | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On March 04 2013 10:41 Hapahauli wrote: Yeah, trying not to get mislynched is "scummy." Way to not answer my first point. | ||
Corazon
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Corazon
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First of all, why would another scum tell Kei and Dieno, players who had been pegged as scum 36 hours into the game, to bus them? That would accomplish nothing and the smallest association case could see that as a bus. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
There's not much else for me to say. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On March 04 2013 10:48 Hapahauli wrote: Well what's the argument? That it's possible that I double bussed, therefore I could be scum? That's just stupid. I actually find this to be a great question. Let's hear an answer Hapa. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On March 04 2013 10:45 Acrofales wrote: One of you two is clearly getting lynched. Hypothetical scenario: we lynch Yamato and he flips town. Who is scum? | ||
Corazon
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Corazon
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On March 04 2013 11:33 cDgCorazon wrote: So now you're going with only 3 scum Acro? Oh I do apologize, I missed the part on Zare. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On March 04 2013 11:38 Hapahauli wrote: [rant] Firstly, it is a stupid question. "Hmmm you have all these scumreads, but scrap them and give me new ones!" is an invitation to get uninformed bullshit rather than anything of substance. [/rant] As for the answer, I don't have one. I think Yamato and Zape are the scumteam. IF Yamato somehow flips town, I'd probably take a look at you, Snarfs, and Alderan for the next one. That's probably what I'll do tomorrow during my lunch break. In the mean time, I'm not going to pull an answer out of my ass. Me? Nice OMGUS. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On March 04 2013 12:22 yamato77 wrote: What do you guys gain as scum by killing me? Tomorrow people will know I'm town anyway. I'm not that invested in staying alive on this deal, I'm invested in finding mafia, and right now Adam looks insanely ridiculous to come in defending Hapa right now. But he might just be dead wrong about the both of us, so there's that. What is most suspicious is the lack of ANYTHING from Zare. Dude is being called mafia by everyone in the game and he's all kinds of AFK, lol. Not an actual defense for him but: He's always busy Sundays. Like he never posts in the thread on Sundays. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On March 04 2013 12:47 yamato77 wrote: Maybe you, as I once thought. Maybe Corazon, since his balls seem to have gone missing today. Oh fuck you Yamato. Do you really want to see a me/Syl duel when you all tried your hardest to stop it? | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On March 04 2013 12:50 yamato77 wrote: No, because there's no point. You're low on the totem pole, but the fact remains that you deserve a look if Hapa flips town. You're the one who was so hasty to duel him. You'd be the first one to deserve a look. Of course if you are so confident Hapa is scum why are you even mentioning the possibilities if he flips town? Are you setting yourself up to bounce back from a mislynch? | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On March 03 2013 12:48 thrawn2112 wrote: d3: lynch yamato. if yamato flips scum then do whatever the hell you want. if yamato turns out to be town I think hapa and acro should be flipped next. On February 26 2013 07:59 marvellosity wrote: Ok, so I'm hoping deadline is about to happen. Here's what I think of people so far. Probably town: yamato - aggression, thread presence, decent reads, etc People I'm a bit suspicious of: Hapahauli - he's just done nothing to make me think he's town, and Hapa is very capable of coming across town. Like iamp mentions, defends himself too much instead of doing proactive things. *could* just be a bad start. On February 28 2013 12:38 iamperfection wrote: hapa is in the same time zone as me. Hapa knows that playing mafia is a commitment hapa knows proving your towniness is important hapa knows that activity and discussion are how you catch mafia He has shown no interest in those things top it off with his shit start that was all defense and no scum hunting and the simple explanation is that hapa is mafia. And the survey says... ##Vote: Hapa Also I cannot see any possible ways that Hapa's actions could be town-oriented. I could see Yamato's play being town a lot easier (still hard though) than Hapa's play. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On March 05 2013 00:01 zarepath wrote: I'm about ten pages away from being totally caught up, but that was the definition of a sheep case, Cora. When you're not quoting yourself for a case, you're quoting the dead... I'm going to see if you had any original thoughts about Hapa before this post. How do you reconcile your vote with the fact that Hapa was the first person to defend Adam on Duel 1, and one of the first to vote Keirathi? Zare are you going to take a side or are you going to blast me for taking one? Read the last few pages and you'll see what I've had to say on Hapa. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On March 05 2013 00:09 zarepath wrote: Um read my post I'm still 7 pages away from being caught up. I really hope you answer my question in those 7 pages or else this is going to look like a dodge from you. Seeing as you've dodged a third of the game I wouldn't be talking...even if you were busy there's no need to be hypocritical. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On March 05 2013 00:26 Sylencia wrote: I don't have much to add to today's duel - the only point I can really add is that while you're using other opinions to decide your vote, can you really value marv's judgment as equal as others? He says it in his post himself - 'could be a bad start', seeing as how he was in the game for 24 hours where some people hadn't talked yet. Personally, I find Hapa's defense posts in day 3, his read on yamato during day 2 and yamato's duel-while-everyone-is-afk to really add up to a compelling argument for me to vote yam. On the other hand, considering day 1 and day 2 have resulted in a mafia lynching I don't see why yamato is actually just openly claiming that a lynch on him is ok to get more info. After reading the case on Hapa, I also find it to be rather weak - primarily the day 2 case on Hapa. The only compelling thing for me is the disappearance of Hapa during the later stages of that duel but I think the quotes provided don't make for a strong scum case against him. I'm going to be sleeping on this, but I don't honestly expect to be coming up with many miracle answers to this problem and in advance I'm going to apologize (primarily to Cora here) for being such a useless townie. On a side note, if we want to maximize our chances of winning, one of the next duels should result in a double lynch. (Town chooses kill today, Night Kill, Town, Town, Night, Town, Night, Town, Town) gives us 6 kills to choose from and 3 controlled by scum. This is different to Town, Night, Town, Night, Town, Night, Town, Town where we get 5 kills and they still get 3. tl;dr sometime during this duel or the next 2 duels, we have an extra spare lynch. This is assuming no vig/protection/thingswhichstop1NK. It's never too late to redeem yourself Syl. Who do you think is the last (hypothetical) scum assuming that Yamato and Hapa aren't bussing each other? | ||
Corazon
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Corazon
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On March 05 2013 00:52 zarepath wrote: What does that even mean? We shouldn't bother breaking down our arguments to make sure they're rigorous before we lynch someone; we should just lynch someone and see if we were right? I've made my decision and you've made yours. Unless something crazy happens I'm not changing my mind. Do you really think Yamato's willingness to die is a scumtell? If his flip proves that Hapa is scum then I think dying would be worth it in all honesty... | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On March 05 2013 00:58 Oatsmaster wrote: Why does Yamato flipping town mean that Hapa is scum Cora? Well unless you think the scum is Zarepath and someone else...? The fact that many of us wanted to see a Zare/Hapa duel and the fact that Zare is adamantly defending Hapa (without even bothering to consider the things that could make Hapa scummy) is very suspicious to me. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On March 05 2013 01:08 Oatsmaster wrote: I wanted to see a zare/yamato dude. Or yamato/acro. Am I scummy for defending Hapa? It looks like the only reason that people have for calling hapa scum is that his activity has not been like his normal town games. Which isnt all that strong. That's not hard defending Hapa, that's either soft defending Hapa (as scum) or just having Hapa lower down your scumreads. That's not scummy. Zare just suddenly makes a decision after being away from 3 days and it looks like he cannot see anything that would make Hapa scum. I don't like it. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
Seriously that's one post. Are you really going to base your vote off of 1 post? | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
Dieno- Everyone else had a scumread on Dieno (even I was suspicious of him), it could possibly be a bus. Sylencia- A pretty easy scum read for everyone. He's kind of town now (unfortunately). Me- Once again, not very hard a read to make due to my vote. However, since I'm not claiming scum, he is wrong. It looks like a nice effort to scum hunt, but in reality it all looks like smoke and mirrors to me. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On March 05 2013 01:35 zarepath wrote: He's been suspicious of yamato ever since the end of Duel 1, is recently suspicious of me (Zarepath), keeps going back to check Snarfs' filter... he's given reads on a lot more people than you have, that's for sure. He's also given reads that go like: "Iamp is scum" -30 minutes later- "Fuck it, Iamp can't be scum" "Thrawn is scum" -30 minutes later- "Fuck it, Thrawn can't be scum" That is town oriented? | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On March 05 2013 01:41 zarepath wrote: Look at Yamato's filter and tell me it's any different. Marv and Acro are the scummiest people yet, and then they end up with null reads. Just look at his Duel 1 voting, for crying out loud -- back and forth on Adam and Keirathi depending upon thread sentiment. Calling someone into question and then deciding they're not scum isn't any kind of scum tell that I know of. It's not what Hapa did that made it look scummy, it's how he did. He literally starts to pressure Thrawn and Iamp and then suddenly 180s on them based on 1 comment. That doesn't look scummy? | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
In his filter he mentions nothing about Yamato being scummy (only at one point that Yamato was his 5th highest scum read). He even makes a couple of posts where he think Yamato is "pro-town". So if he had a null read on Yamato (which is safe to assume seeing that he never said anything otherwise), why would he vote for Yamato after only one readthrough of the thread. Even more suspiciously, why is Zare only calling out Yamato for his D1 actions when he is on the chopping block, instead of calling Yamato out when he switched votes on D1? It all reeks of hard-defending Hapa. The likelihood of scum bussing each other again is very low because the scum are so low in numbers that they need to focus on staying alive as much as possible, so I'm pretty sure that Zare and Hapa are of the same alignment, whether they are town together or scum together. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On March 05 2013 05:14 zarepath wrote: I don't know how you can say that I mention nothing about Yamato being scummy when I explain it fairly thoroughly in my vote post, and then just re-quoted it for Yamato. In fact, YOU mentioned absolutely nothing about Hapa being scummy until this duel post. The absolute idiot in me can say "Therefore, Cora is only out to protect Yamato!" Or I can simply say, "Gee, maybe he had no reason to actually look at Hapa-scum until the Duel post where he only has two options." I had not mentioned Hapa/Yamato before now because I was trying to get Syl lynched. Since it's obvious you need to read the thread again, I was on Yamato for a few hours before I switched over. Unlike you, who has been AFK and just decided to jump in and vote for Yamato without applying much critical thinking and looking at ALL of the arguments, I took a look at both sides and I don't see Yamato's actions being as scummy as Hapa's have been. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On March 05 2013 06:16 zarepath wrote: Please explain to me which actions of Hapa are scummy enough to outweigh the fact that he was the first person to defend Adam and one of the first to vote for Keirathi, and then one of the first to push for a Dieno/Syl duel. A scum realizing that he needed to bus his teammates a ridiculous amount in order to distance himself from their flips would do the same exact thing Hapa did. | ||
Corazon
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Corazon
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On March 05 2013 08:18 Sylencia wrote: Zare has a high chance at the moment no matter who gets chosen, but after thinking through it during the night it's quite possible that Yamato and Hapa are both town, which means there could still be another scum. If that's the case, the other thing I'm a bit suspicious about are how clear pro-town players who are providing a lot of insight in comparison to others didn't get killed instead of the ones who are dead. While thrawn was also an active player, his reads were definitely a lot more off in comparison to Acro/Adam. Yay now we are getting somewhere Zare =) Can I ask for a vote next? | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
"Yay now we are getting somewhere Syl =)" | ||
Corazon
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Corazon
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On March 05 2013 12:23 Oatsmaster wrote: Why does it matter Cora? We are not going to double lynch. Probably. Well it looks like the people who are going to vote aren't going to change their minds, and the other two have been constant lurkers. I'd say the chances of a double lynch are good. | ||
Corazon
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Corazon
United States3230 Posts
Alderan in next lynch? Snarfs or Zare to join him based off of flip? A couple of ideas I'm proposing to you all now. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
It's Zare defending his scum buddy, and him pressuring Oats and I was just a scare tactic to try and get a double lynch. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On March 05 2013 23:58 zarepath wrote: Which makes me think that the fourth scum is not very likely to have voted for Adam, which clears Sylencia and Corazon. Considering Hapa's bus, I think that the other scum is more likely to be approximating Hapa's bus in the order of votes. Nice scare tactic. Of course scumhunting is going to be hard for you because you have to make stuff up, scum. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
But you're still scum. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On March 06 2013 00:06 zarepath wrote: Dude, I read like 40 pages of the thread and had 10 left when I saw your weird "2/3 dead people said to eventually lynch him days ago so I'm going to do it without any explanation" case. Between Hapa and Yamato, I thought Yamato was scummier. I asked WAY more questions than you did; you completely 180'd on Hapa without justification, while I did nothing but justify my Hapa town read all night. You run with a lot of assumptions -- how in the world would me pressuring you and Oats (and by "pressuring" you meant "asking us why he completely switched our votes without any real justification") be trying to get a double lynch? I sense a tunnel. Just think -- what if you are wrong? (Because you are.) What are all the scum possibilities right now? All I sense from you is looking for any excuse to be the next guy in line to call me scum. Well Zare if you are going to call me scum for it, then go ahead. I unnecessarily bussed my scummate when he only had 1-2 other votes on him? Let's see that theory hold. The fact of the matter is that you voted for Yamato and then asked the questions. It means before you had even read anything after the duel post, you already knew that you were going to vote for Yamato. If you were town, you either: 1. Would've had a scumread on Yamato already, and voted him because he was a scumread of yours (your filter shows otherwise, so it can't be this) or 2. You would have reread the thread and considered a lot more carefully because you wanted to make a good decision for town. Your vote would not have been so hastily. Adam's defense of Hapa was a lot more credible and had a lot better points than you did. I just think Adam did not have the right read on Hapa and didn't get enough thought to a scum trying to play for the long run. Your rash defense of Hapa strongly indicates that you are his scum buddy. At this point scum need to hold on to every member they can, and you hoped that he would not die so you guys could have numbers. 1 scum trying to take on 7 town is not a very ideal situation. Who would I look to besides you, Zare?: Alderan- I want him in the duel with you. Him not making a decision could mean he was defending Hapa without not actually looking like it. Snarfs- It's N3, and his filter is 4 pages. Seriously? Syl- Showed he had a heartbeat again, but didn't make a vote when asked for it. Only speculated about future play. An outside shot at catching scum. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On March 06 2013 00:24 zarepath wrote: Honestly, I think the final scum is most likely to be among Corazon/Oats On March 05 2013 23:58 zarepath wrote: Which makes me think that the fourth scum is not very likely to have voted for Adam, which clears Sylencia and Corazon. What? Did you really just contradict yourself? | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On March 06 2013 00:33 zarepath wrote: No, that's not what happened and it's not what it means. I read up to the very latest post before i posted my Yamato read; I don't know where you get this idea that I was going to vote for Yamato no matter what. I had a town read on Hapa that was confirmed to me as I was catching up on the thread, while several things that Yamato was doing seemed scummy to me. So by the time I caught up, my vote was pretty clear. I was wrong. But nothing that you, Cora, did, actively attempted to persuade me I was wrong. You presented no specific case to me or piece of evidence other than your list of dead townies; you simply yelled at me that I was scum trying to protect Hapa. It's not like I was putting my hands over my ears and singing so your logic wouldn't affect me. What's even less ideal for scum is for that 1 scum to be only one of two people voting for the other guy when the thread consensus is on the scum buddy. That's why your complete 180, and Oats' complete 180, are far scummier than what I did. I said it was a hard decision. There was a lot that could have been said for them both being town and scum. Obviously 5 minutes into the duel the thread sentiment was on Yamato because everyone was pissed at him for starting the duel. I did the same thing with Adam. Then I realized that there was a lot more scummy stuff about Hapa than there was about Yamato, so I switched to Hapa and made it 2-1. It's not like I was the hammer or the votes before the hammer. Do you really think I would be bussing Hapa that early? It was more likely that I would be the hammer or the 4th vote on Hapa. You're grasping at straws here, and your "Cora isn't scum unless he attacks me" crap is just smoke and mirrors. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On March 06 2013 00:34 zarepath wrote: Yeah, I looked back at Day 1 and saw that you switched from Adam onto Keir. For some reason I thought that your vote had stayed there. When we've lynched scum, you've either switched your vote onto them or voted for the other guy, every time. Why are my reads on Syl scummy? I'd love to hear. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On March 06 2013 00:44 zarepath wrote: My problem is that you never said "the stuff." You said "I find his actions scummier." Like, how is that supposed to persuade me? MAYBE it persuades me that you believe it, but it's not like you're activley promoting his lynch or trying to correct incorrect townspeople. Even if you think I'm scum, why didn't you try to persuade Adam? This is now outside the realm of scumhunting, because it's a good point you raise that you became the 2-1 vote for Hapa. That goes a long way, I think, and I didn't realize you'd voted for him that early in the count. But you're tunneling me, and were tunneling me all of Duel 3. Your arguments more often than not boil down to "You are scum and are therefore doing X, Y, Z because you are scum," instead of "You doing X, Y, Z makes me think you could be scum" and performing actions that help you confirm your read, ie, "Zarepath, who do you think is scum here? Why do you think A is scummier than B in light of C evidence?" You're doing the logic backwards and it's leading to you getting increasingly confident and increasingly wrong. Read my filter and you'll see that about 85% of this is BS. I said "the stuff". I haven't tunneled you all of Duel 3 because you weren't here half of D3. I accused you of making a decision too rashly and you just OMGUSed me. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On March 06 2013 07:48 Sylencia wrote: Zare, if you're going to do scumhunting, you're going to need to actually give us who the last scum is rather than saying 'Oats is scum because of this, Cora is scum because of this, Syl is scum because of this' - it just screams of deflection. Zare vs X is the most appropriate duel for today. PS: The vote from Adam already happened as I came back to vote ~100 minutes after my previous post. After the hammer fell it was quiet time until mod came, so there wasn't exactly much to say about that. Who should be the X Syl? | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
Make your analysis between Syl and Alderan before the deadline, I'm not going to sit around and wait 24 hours for the same duel that was probably going to happen. There's honestly not too much more discussion to have. The game is going really slow right now and I think that seeing you and Alderan is what needs to happen. As much as I want Syl dead due to my frustration over his activity, I think that Alderan is a lot better choice. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
Anyways: ##Vote: Alderan | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On March 07 2013 00:27 Acrofales wrote: I am completely okay with you and your conspiracy theories. But for now just KISS. The possibility of no NK entered my mind this morning when I realized there really was a decent possibility that Alderan was scum. He HAS been AFK, and it was entirely possible that if he is scum, doesn't send in the NK. So yes, I mentioned that possibility, mainly because I didn't want people thinking that the presence of a NK somehow exculpated him. However, the absence of a NK definitely implicates him. By this point, a medic save seems unlikely, and there haven't been any RB claims either. That indicates that the only reason there was no NK is because scum didn't send it in. Alderan being the last scum is by far the most likely reason for that. Why are you so quick in ruling out a medic? And why did you not ask us before dueling Alderan? | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
I love you Marv don't hate me. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
I have to go to school now, sorry =( | ||
Corazon
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I'm sorry, I'll make a list of reasoning as to who I saved with explanations, but I'll give you the names before I go to school. N0: No one N1: Thrawn N2: Acro N3: Adam I don't worry too much about town reads so my saves have been sub-par, but we really need to kill Zare and Alderan before we take a closer look at me. If you want to call me scum, Snarf's claim shouldn't be the whole argument. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
I think Mocsta hit the nail on the head when it comes to how I still feel about playing mafia: "Cora has been known to say this prior (to me specifically in NMM34) I am reading him still as a guy who wants to contribute, but is not sure of himself: i.e. his posts evoke much more enthusiasm than confidence in my opinion." I'm still trying to figure out how to improve my scumhunting game and how to make myself look more town. Basically, I'm trying to find the Corazon that played NMM 34 when it comes to looking townie. I really still suck at scumhunting and default to sheeping when it comes to arguments. It's so hard to be the first one to catch a scum. However, this might be a good thing because if no one is ever going to be convinced of anyone else's reads than the scum will win everytime. It's definitely a learning process, especially with the transition out of Newbie games. My votes on Adam and Yamato were pretty terrible and were mostly based on emotion, to be honest. I think that was my biggest mistake (jk not saving Marv was <3). There was no reason I should not have looked into Kei and Hapa's filters before voting for their dueling counterparts. It was just being lazy town. All three of my saves were trying to save people I thought were going to die. I was more inclined to save Thrawn than Iamp N1 because I felt like Thrawn was playing a more active and more contributing town game than Iamp (because Iamp's posting style really bugs me, no offense <3). Unfortunately they decided not to kill Thrawn. Then I decided to save Acro because I had a town read on him for most of the game. By the time I had realized that Yamato was thinking about dueling Acro and that scum would not have killed him because of that, it was too late to save Thrawn. I really don't understand why Adam was kept alive so long because almost everyone had put him down as town in their books. I just thought that Adam was most likely to go because his posts were very well constructed (like Acro's) and the fact that the scum had kept him alive for way too long). Of course I just realized that Snarfs couldn't kill and that I never saved Adam. Makes me feel worse. I don't think you should be too down about how you played Snarfs. You were probably 4th highest on my scum list, and I don't think that claiming doctor was the best idea in your situation. I think taking an extremely unpopular opinion against Acro would've been enough to reestablish doubt against Acro and let you survive at least two lynches. However, I also thank you for resigning when you felt like there was no chance of you winning. Respect from me for that. I would also like to commend Adam and Yamato for the great games that they played. As stated in the Obs QT, Yamato did a great job of backing down when necessary, but also continuing to attack when you felt like you were onto something. It's so hard in this game to balance that kind of aggression and I think Yamato did that spectacularly well to the great benefit of the town. Well done! Adam, in hindsight, your duel with Kei was a great move. When it happens during the game, you think "Wow Adam is an idiot and he's going to ruin the game if he's town". Thinking about it now, it was a great idea. You played mafia in the simplest way possible: Find scum and lynch them. It was a great call to duel Kei and it helped us get on the right foot to start out with. It also forced Hapa to change his gameplan and work on bussing both of his scum teammates. After you had gotten Kei lynched and had confirmed yourself as town, you put yourself to work very well to help everyone else out. I've been in a couple of games where confirmed townies have basically stepped back and made lazy arguments, but the fact that you continued to think critically and make good posts really helped us out and was invaluable when it came to winning the game. Your defense of Hapa was legit. There were times where I could not answer your points but I could not get myself to vote for Yamato. However, the sign of a good mafia player is to realize that you could possibly be wrong and that scum could be making desperation plays. You took a risk and voted for Hapa, and it worked out for us. Thank you <3 In other words: Adam=Town MVP Yamato is a close second. Syl, this is the last time I'll talk about this, but you need to post more. I got a little frustrated at your lack of activity two games in a row (hence the "Won't Back Down" post), and perhaps I tunneled you a little too much. Can you please post more? Please? Or at least play when you have more time, because I can see you being a great player when you post more than once a day. I'll stop tunneling you for it but I'd like to kindly ask you to participate more. Thanks <3 Last couple of points I want to bring up: I enjoyed the setup. I think it was a fun and interesting take on Mafia (especially the traitor role). However, the biggest problem I had was the lack of any real "pressure". Obviously you can say all you want about dueling someone or killing them, you can't back it up without committing yourself. That, along with no activity requirement, means that lurkers can just sit back and continue to lurk and no one will want to duel them because they and others will see it as a waste of a duel. I think a stricter activity requirement needs to be added (one post per every cycle is what I would recommend) in order to make this game a bit more fun and a bit less of a lurker fest (while not as bad as NMM 37, there were still 3 lurkers and Zare who had missed 3 days or so). The second thing I would like to bring up with the set-up is that I think the voting deadline for duels is a bit too long. A lot of times the thread became dead because we realized we could not change each others' minds and the lurkers never came in and hammered anyone. This led to us sitting around and talking about who to lynch next, which leads to association cases which are bad before flips. Perhaps either a 24 or 36 hour voting period w/Instant Majority Lynch to speed the game up just a little bit. Besides that, it was a good set-up. Thanks Marv for the helpful tips that you left in the Obs QT, and I'm really sorry for not saving you. Lack of brain usage there. I'm glad that this game did not turn out like NMM 36 and 37, which really just drained me emotionally and made me a bit sad in all honesty. It kind of renewed my faith in my ability to play mafia by having at least a sub-par game (which is really good compared to my last 2 shit games). GG guys! Thank you if you read this far. I'd like to thank the awesome hosts and the awesome players =). I'd be honored to play with you all again and I can't wait to see some of you in Personality Mafia 2 <3. Bye! | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On March 07 2013 08:29 Acrofales wrote: Cora: you looked plenty townie to me. Improving your scumhunting: stop tunneling Sylencia. When you weren't doing that, you were doing just fine. But the reason that I looked town to you was because I was tunneling Syl way too much. That's not the way I want town cred. I want to have real town cred, not just a "bad town" read. | ||
Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On March 07 2013 09:04 Sylencia wrote: Thought I just posted but apparently not o_o GG and wp by town, Cora I agree and will be taking a break for a bit from Mafia until I can find more energy to post after work. The last couple of weeks have been draining and all I want to do is sleep lol. I'm sorry if anything I said offended you in any way. I say really stupid stuff but my goal in Mafia is to leave it all on the field (or town). I need to work just a bit more on that and I'm sorry if I upset you in anyways. We're all good people whether our alignment says so or not | ||
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