space station was so fun even if it was somewhat broken by PMs.
rule 9 makes me so sad
Forum Index > TL Mafia |
layabout
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space station was so fun even if it was somewhat broken by PMs. rule 9 makes me so sad | ||
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you cant announce your target pregame heript | ||
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coag's life is in the hands of vigis, because he plays like he does. a roleclaim as always could be powerful but i think Dr.h doesn't want the set-up to be broken so it might come back to bite us. Is there a benefit to trying to guess blue role? No. So stop it. | ||
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The idea of SAST is to create a town circle and to force the members to produce content so that mafia that join put themselves in the spotlight. It's not retarded it can actually be quite a strong tool to use against mafia. | ||
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On March 17 2013 02:55 WaveofShadow wrote: Show nested quote + On March 17 2013 02:51 layabout wrote: WoS it's got heavy flavor but the game is tagged normal so it will just be normal, with normal-like distributions of roles. The idea of SAST is to create a town circle and to force the members to produce content so that mafia that join put themselves in the spotlight. It's not retarded it can actually be quite a strong tool to use against mafia. Unless the members are forced to vote the way VE does, which I don't believe he has answered when someone asked that of him. Well at the end of the day town needs to vote together. I don't intend to sheep VE unless i agree with him. | ||
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On March 17 2013 04:32 RyuSuzaku wrote: although it is very suspicious that after being called out by sandroba, greymist made a simple and weak question and then chose not to address sandroba's accusation. Is sandroba's accusation not worthy of a response? Greymist was clearly around after, since he corrected the host just a while ago. Ryu there isn't much to respond to if your greymist. | ||
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On March 16 2013 16:46 DarthPunk wrote: ##Vote:Geript I feel like I would like him to stop everything he is currently doing. What better way to silence someone than by lynching them? + Show Spoiler [Bias] + On March 16 2013 16:45 DarthPunk wrote: Show nested quote + On March 16 2013 16:43 geript wrote: On March 16 2013 16:36 DarthPunk wrote: On March 16 2013 16:22 Wade Fell wrote: geript is there a particular reason you haven't voted for zarepath since you already rnged him? it seems to me that if you realy wanted to rng your lynch, you'd use the lynch you've already rnged. Why the cold feet? Yeah I really like this actually. What Gives? I thought I couldn't use it from what was said in pregame and the tarot stuff got me interested. How do you feel about this being based on some sort of tarot stuff? I feel the whole RNG thing is fucking retarded in general. But that's just me. (British mini) On January 04 2013 14:51 DarthPunk wrote: He is pissed off at an obviously crafted policy post. I myself hate that shit most of the time and can empathise with his position even if I don't agree with all of it. Not alignment indicative, really he is just stating his own policy. Aggression, unless used in a meta case, is not alignment indicative either. This game DarthPunk has vote for geript and wants him dead. And yet he appears to be doing this on the basis that geript was attempting an RNG lynch. He doesn't state that geript is scummy but still votes for him. DarthPunk admits that he hates that RNG/policy talk but NOT that it's scummy. This is scummy. | ||
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On March 17 2013 04:57 RyuSuzaku wrote: Show nested quote + On March 17 2013 04:40 layabout wrote: On March 17 2013 04:32 RyuSuzaku wrote: although it is very suspicious that after being called out by sandroba, greymist made a simple and weak question and then chose not to address sandroba's accusation. Is sandroba's accusation not worthy of a response? Greymist was clearly around after, since he corrected the host just a while ago. Ryu there isn't much to respond to if your greymist. Are you suggesting sandroba is not a good town player and so his accusation should not be treated seriously? I don't understand this line of thought. There is nothing of substance for greymist to respond to, what is he supposed to say? sandro:"grey is scummy" grey:"No i am not" it wouldn't be productive at all | ||
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On March 17 2013 05:51 cosmicomics wrote: Show nested quote + On March 16 2013 23:42 Vivax wrote: Sandro: I don't like this post. Quick conclusions. No arguments, no read on BH and VE (just being silly) and conclusive reads on people I actually find scummy. Townish reads on a guy who contributed something pointless. Not the sandro I would expect as town. Leaning red. What does town sandro look like? What do you think of DarthPunk? | ||
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On March 17 2013 06:52 DoYouHas wrote: Layabout, since you clearly have looked into people going after geript (IE Darth), do you have an opinion of Scib as well? I'm putting together my thoughts on him and would like to compare notes with you. I like him. He is smart. | ||
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also why do you feel the need to OMGUS Wiggles then try to deflect attention towards lurkers and those who are absent? On March 17 2013 05:31 goodkarma wrote: -snip- @Mr. Wiggles: -snip- But what I'd recommend you to do right now is to focus some of your energies on getting others to participate (not everyone has even posted yet!), and pursue some of your other scumreads. Because tunneling one read, and going into lurker mode thereafter is in itself pretty scummy... -snip- | ||
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On March 17 2013 09:15 goodkarma wrote: Show nested quote + On March 17 2013 08:23 layabout wrote: goodkarma are you suspicious of VE or was the red text just there for kicks? also why do you feel the need to OMGUS Wiggles then try to deflect attention towards lurkers and those who are absent? On March 17 2013 05:31 goodkarma wrote: -snip- @Mr. Wiggles: -snip- But what I'd recommend you to do right now is to focus some of your energies on getting others to participate (not everyone has even posted yet!), and pursue some of your other scumreads. Because tunneling one read, and going into lurker mode thereafter is in itself pretty scummy... -snip- I would say that my stance on VE has been that he was being silly. That coag attempted to go into the group though convinced me that I needed to be sure it didn't gain momentum as it was not a very pro-town plan. I'm not against "town circles," however, if they're done right. Just because I had issues with Wiggles and he accused me first doesn't make it an OMGUS. He is lurking the shit out of the thread now. The mentality being, "I presented my case, now I don't need to do shit." That is a scum mentality, not a town one. It shows disinterest in the thread. As for "deflecting to lurkers," I don't see what you mean. The game was SO early at that point.. I don't feel you could call anyone that didn't chime in yet lurkers. Anything else? I will be presenting my own case before the evening's done, so everyone has a solid 24ish hours to look at it. But I typically don't like to jump into cases as quickly as some here. Call that scummy if you want, but it's my playstyle. "Wiggles is lurking and is scum"# "I am not deflecting attention towards lurkers" ...? Isn't that exactly what you are doing? your point about holding off early on is valid though. | ||
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cosmicomic's vote makes sense because DarthPunk claims to have made a pressure vote but at that time a pressure vote was unnecessary and DP's contribution was empty. Speaking of which: DarthPunk came back and looks scummy and you all just ignored him. He calls me scum for calling him scummy and votes cosmicomics for voting for him. But I don't know if this is a real vote or just a "pressure vote" since he follows the vote by trying to engage in a discussion with cosmicomics. He then tells us that he thinks GKis a poor lynch but criticizes BH's defense of GK. This indirectly supports a GK lynch but he does nothing to make it happen. If you read this post you will notice that DarthPunk seems to agree that GK is scummy or at least dislike's his posting. It's as if he isn't sure if a GK lynch is going to happen so he is hedging. He acknowledges that he has contributed very little but feels an OMGUS is enough of a contribuution for day1. This is scum behavior. DathPunk is scum ##vote: DarthPunk | ||
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On March 18 2013 02:19 Coagulation wrote: I may not be on VEs little circle jerk squad but i can still sheep them. im gonna vote ThePeashooter. did anyone ever figure anything out about the yamato slip? was it actually a scum slip? and whats with greymist defending sandroba so hard. vivax thinks TPS is yamato and started calling him yamato. So either they are both scum, masons or vivax did something "silly". | ||
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On March 18 2013 02:28 GreYMisT wrote: I'm still voting for goodkarma for the moment, but what do people think of WaveofShadow? I just went through his posts and noticed that literally the only thing he has done this game is discuss meta, and not in the good way. To me it seems as though he is yet another player promising an opinion and saying he will look into things, but preparing excuses for a later sheep. I'd like to see a vote from him soon. WoS has done bugger all but is telling us he has been doing stuff. He complains about inactivity whilst being inactive and he tried to shoot down SAST which is something i expect sum would do. I don't want to lynch GK since his reads made sense from a town perspective. What do you think about DarthPunk? | ||
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On March 18 2013 03:12 VisceraEyes wrote: Do you have any reason for wanting to lynch Vivax other than the "scumslip"? What are your most recent thoughts on goodkarma? What are your most recent thoughts on TestSubject? What are your thoughts on DarthPunk and WoS? | ||
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On March 18 2013 03:44 glurio wrote: Vivax: I just don't find DYH or cosmicomic scummy enough to warrant voting for them. If cosmicomic fails to post this cycle i can see lynching him D2. Can you make a decent case on DarthPunk, VE? I really fail to see how you can see him as sure scum? that's really mean | ||
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On March 18 2013 04:00 Hopeless1der wrote: Show nested quote + On March 18 2013 03:56 layabout wrote: Hope his vote was on a lurker yet his discourages voting for lurkers. (You might have classed me as a lurker at the time he went after me too). Perhaps, but his reasons for voting were unrelated to activity. Voting a lurker is not the same as voting for being a lurker. No but he says we should avoid lynching lurkers but also that we should lynch one. He also seems to think he can get away with lurking day1 so he lurks and tells people to avoid lurkers. | ||
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On March 18 2013 07:18 Vivax wrote: Show nested quote + On March 18 2013 07:05 layabout wrote: Not seeing GM as scum, he seems to be scumhunting just fine, get on Darth. This is pretty generic if you want to defend him why don't you go into detail? People posted extensive cases against your and VE's oneliners, there might be a reason why they are convincing no? If you are really interested into defending him, what's holding you back? Why think DP is scum but GM shouldn't be another fine choice? Without debating it? I don't think i need to go into detail about why i don't think that greymist is scum. He could be but i don't think so. I have already gone into detail about why i think DP is scum. | ||
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Darth the pressure on BH doesn't have anything to do with GK alignment, it has to do with you indirectly supporting the lynch. | ||
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On March 18 2013 09:13 DarthPunk wrote: Look I don't want to get mislynched. Everyone who is here please look at my VE case. If no one agrees and it isn't going anywhere I will consolidate onto someone that isn't Greymist. Can we get our shit together please. It is almost deadline and the apathy being this close to the deadline worries me. What do you think of zarepath or WoS? | ||
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I wouldn't want to encourage ppl to do this but the way he calls everyone suspicious of him scum is remarkably town-like. Grey's looks fine to me so ## votezarepath night all | ||
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Mocsta please note that our entire day 1 is about the length of your LX filter | ||
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particularly the way he calls greymist scum for not pushing him. Isn't that more or less what prom did last game? | ||
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On March 19 2013 02:20 Coagulation wrote: did we ever find out if yamato was actually yamato? Nope, i don't understand why we don't just let people smurf, often they have good reason and most of them fail anyway. | ||
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On March 19 2013 02:50 zarepath wrote: Are you Yamato or what? The longer you don't respond to this scumslip narrative the more you're allowing us to mislynch Vivax should he be town. Are you serious? This was dealt with forever ago. | ||
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On March 19 2013 03:07 Vivax wrote: Can you tell me about these 3 guys please? You are here now and read the front page apparently so I don't know what's holding you from reading my case or looking at filters. I would also like to know why you seemed sure I would be NKd. You'd think I would be NKd if I mentioned good reads no? If I mention 5 townies as guys I want to lynch tomorrow, how does that make me a target for NK? You said you didn't even read my case properly yet you seem sure it would be enough to get me killed tonight. + Show Spoiler + On March 19 2013 01:52 ThePeashooter wrote: Show nested quote + On March 19 2013 01:40 Vivax wrote: + Show Spoiler + On March 19 2013 01:31 ThePeashooter wrote: There is no point in naming who you think all 5 mafia are when we can only kill one person a day. If you are right they are all on guard now. That was a bit stupid. The only reason you might want to do that is if you think you are very likely to die during this night phase and since half the people thought we were scum buddies at some point yesterday you aren't too likely to be on their list of targets. Can you find an example please? I remember lots of people thinking you were scum "on your own", but didn't see anyone make the connection like I did. Also it's fine if I die N1. Just shows how well I played lol. ...Did you even read anything I wrote? Also how is it that no one has any capacity to reread something to remember anything that hasn't happened in the last 5 minutes? Show nested quote + On March 18 2013 00:06 kitaman27 wrote: On March 17 2013 13:21 Vivax wrote: Yamato i think coagulation is not a good choice for d1 for reasons wf pointed out ...is this a scum slip? As far as I know, ThePeashooter's identity as Yamato is not public knowledge. Was it revealed at any point in the thread? Show nested quote + On March 18 2013 01:29 WaveofShadow wrote: On March 18 2013 01:11 geript wrote: On March 17 2013 06:54 zarepath wrote: I did mix up your tarot card comment with VE because he mentioned something about them later, I think. I looked through your filter, geript, and I liked your comment about coddling Coag and figured you were null for now. Didn't even Dr.H point out the that natural reaction to get to after going through a filter and arriving at null for town is to go through another filter? Sciberbia's case is good. There's almost no movement from him whatsoever; just random statements. When he's suspicious of someone he's not interacting with the thread at all when pressure is on that person. It's like he's watching the game from a window. Hell, he even didn't like the warbaby lynch in NMM 37, which you coached scum in, but here he's null on everything it seems. He's lied about every scum claiming town in the first post as it was actually most of the town players who soft and/or hard claimed town in the mid-stages of day 1. He's not showing any town motivation that I've seen whatsoever. His meta's off from 37. And the survival mentality is in his posts throughout. Ohai guise. Geript no offense, but your meta reads are shit. I'll agree with you that something appears...off about zare this game, but glurio does make a point and zare's activity does go way down on weekends. I'm willing to keep an eye on him for now but I don't think he'd be my D1 lynch candidate. I have to look into this Vivax/TPS thing right now because so far it seems the most compelling thing to me. I was going to comment on Coag's bullshit at some point but I figure I have to trust the vets on his meta once again since they ended up being right about Grush last game.....sigh. Show nested quote + On March 18 2013 02:19 Coagulation wrote: I may not be on VEs little circle jerk squad but i can still sheep them. im gonna vote ThePeashooter. did anyone ever figure anything out about the yamato slip? was it actually a scum slip? and whats with greymist defending sandroba so hard. Show nested quote + On March 18 2013 02:23 layabout wrote: On March 18 2013 02:19 Coagulation wrote: I may not be on VEs little circle jerk squad but i can still sheep them. im gonna vote ThePeashooter. did anyone ever figure anything out about the yamato slip? was it actually a scum slip? and whats with greymist defending sandroba so hard. vivax thinks TPS is yamato and started calling him yamato. So either they are both scum, masons or vivax did something "silly". Show nested quote + On March 18 2013 02:41 kitaman27 wrote: On March 18 2013 01:21 Vivax wrote: The "scumslip": I tried to guess TPS alignment, and it sounds a lot like (a townish) yamato, especially in the two posts after I voted for him. So I actually would like to know if it's really him since he didn't answer to me yet I think. I'm not too bad at guessing smurfs, I like to do that as either alignment (LX as reference for me doing it as mafia, LIX for town where I guessed marv correctly). I'm not really buying this explanation. When you addressed to him, you made it sound like a fact as if you knew he was yamato. If you were taking a guess, you could have said something like "hey, are you yamato?" or "This is yamato, isn't it?". Furthermore, TPS posts after you address him as yamato and he thinks nothing of it. If I'm playing a game and someone calls me someone I'm not, I'm going to be awful confused. Even though that happened 10 pages ago, you never brought it up again. TPS had ignored your "guess", yet you never followed up on it. If you were truly curious, why not mention it? You say that you "tried to guess TPS's alignment" and that you thought he was town, yet the previous post indicated that he was your number one scum read. Finally, how can you possibly come to a conclusion on a smurfs identity like that? When I see TPS's posts, I see some random player. I couldn't possibly guess who it was by the sample size you were given. ##Vote: Vivax Show nested quote + On March 18 2013 02:54 VisceraEyes wrote: Ugh I like Vivax lynch too. Nothing he's said has made me feel townie on him. I'ma go filter him again. Kita why you hatin on GM? I think he's fine for now, and I certainly don't like him for lynch today. Where's the beef? Show nested quote + On March 18 2013 03:01 GreYMisT wrote: Kita I think its possible that vivax slipped up. I can definitely see that scenario happening in this game. I am not sure I am confident enough in the risk of lynching him based off only that though. Let me look over him for anything else. But yeah, you are definitely a likely kill for tonight. Go read this http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18079586 | ||
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layabout
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March 19 2013 15:26 GMT
#1128
On March 19 2013 21:42 sciberbia wrote: + Show Spoiler [snip] + Guess I'm just not sleeping tonight :/ @Kitaman I believe you are referring to DYH doing some meta research on Zerapath. And he did indeed follow up on it. Just filter DYH @Mocsta While filtering you I found this. On March 19 2013 17:08 Mocsta wrote: Indulge me.. why are guys like Coagulation being allowed to fly under the radar? I'm actually leaning town on Coag. Hence, no need to bring him up. And I suspect the rest of the thread lives in terror of having their head bitten off if they dare try to make a read on him. Anyway, if you've played with Coag before, what say you to this: Show nested quote + On March 18 2013 17:34 sciberbia wrote: - Coag hopped on the DP bandwaggon in the voting thread despite never mentioning him in his filter. Is this normal Coag behavior? Too scummy to be scum? I would say that such behavior is within my expectations. What do you make of keirathi's take on zarepath? | ||
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March 19 2013 15:42 GMT
#1131
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March 19 2013 15:45 GMT
#1132
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March 19 2013 16:16 GMT
#1136
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March 19 2013 16:33 GMT
#1139
On March 20 2013 01:28 Vivax wrote: It's obvious BH is a mason, so it doesn't make VE automatically scum. It just means that part of the logs with GK have been written in the scum qt and the D1 masoning was fake, the others could be real. + Show Spoiler + On March 18 2013 02:23 layabout wrote: Show nested quote + On March 18 2013 02:19 Coagulation wrote: I may not be on VEs little circle jerk squad but i can still sheep them. im gonna vote ThePeashooter. did anyone ever figure anything out about the yamato slip? was it actually a scum slip? and whats with greymist defending sandroba so hard. vivax thinks TPS is yamato and started calling him yamato. So either they are both scum, masons or vivax did something "silly". Given how layabout calls this obvious slip stupid, but was pretty quick to damn me for a slip that wasn't one earlier, I'm now also suspicious of him. Layabout why do you call cosmic out of all players to look at this? This appears to be another incident with the sarcasm. Vivax i didn't think you slipped i explained the slip but (i hope it should be obvious to most) i thought it was just you being silly. If you notice i didn't try to push you or TPS, as i should have if i believed you had slipped. As to your other point: I am not telling. Yet. | ||
layabout
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March 19 2013 16:44 GMT
#1142
On March 20 2013 01:36 Vivax wrote: Like, I don't know how you people (layabout, TPS) all assume it makes everyone masoned scum, do you guys have no fantasy or are you just trying to put the slip into favourable light. Replacing the TPS and glurio reads with layabout and Wade now, TPS is being tunneled by wade and GK so unlikely scum imo. Zarepath, GK, cosmicomics, Wade, layabout scum probably. Layabout you said you liked my case against Zarepath earlier yet you are doing absolutely nothing to hunt scum currently, you're just defending BH, zarepath is here and you don't try to figure out if he scum? Show nested quote + On March 19 2013 02:54 layabout wrote: On March 19 2013 02:50 zarepath wrote: Are you Yamato or what? The longer you don't respond to this scumslip narrative the more you're allowing us to mislynch Vivax should he be town. Are you serious? This was dealt with forever ago. Since then Keir flipped and DarthPunk made the point that we were probably on the wrong track. Keir thought zare was town and i am willing to give hm the benefit of the doubt. It's also worth realising that mason roles ARE ptobably balanced between town and mafia but maybe with more on town's side, since grey is probably not the only town mason since he could only mason 1 person then kill them. I am not defending BH, your push on him based on qt's (unlike most of what you have done so far) was borderline retarded. Can't say much more. | ||
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March 19 2013 16:46 GMT
#1143
On March 20 2013 01:36 Vivax wrote: Like, I don't know how you people (layabout, TPS) all assume it makes everyone masoned scum, do you guys have no fantasy or are you just trying to put the slip into favourable light. Replacing the TPS and glurio reads with layabout and Wade now, TPS is being tunneled by wade and GK so unlikely scum imo. Zarepath, GK, cosmicomics, Wade, layabout scum probably. Layabout you said you liked my case against Zarepath earlier yet you are doing absolutely nothing to hunt scum currently, you're just defending BH, zarepath is here and you don't try to figure out if he scum? Show nested quote + On March 19 2013 02:54 layabout wrote: On March 19 2013 02:50 zarepath wrote: Are you Yamato or what? The longer you don't respond to this scumslip narrative the more you're allowing us to mislynch Vivax should he be town. Are you serious? This was dealt with forever ago. Misread this first point, VE and GK confirmed the logs were correct so if BH is fabracting the logs they are deliberately supporting the lie. Zarepath also supports it but we haven't seen logs. | ||
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March 19 2013 17:13 GMT
#1151
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March 19 2013 21:13 GMT
#1214
dude is supertown. | ||
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March 19 2013 21:19 GMT
#1217
On March 20 2013 06:16 VisceraEyes wrote: Show nested quote + On March 20 2013 06:13 layabout wrote: Why the hell is there a push on VE? dude is supertown. I just want to see where it's going. I wouldn't say I'm supertown, but I'm certainly not the scummiest in the thread by far. LOL Maybe no one knows your meta. What do you think about all mason's claiming? We can leave BH alive for mafia to waste a shot on but i get the impression there are quite a few and one of em has to be scum. | ||
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March 19 2013 21:45 GMT
#1229
I see nothing that makes me think town. | ||
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March 19 2013 22:16 GMT
#1231
On March 20 2013 07:06 VisceraEyes wrote: I do, but there are things I don't like too. Like his read on DYH...what is it? I think it's, "i thought i could push him on day1, don' think i can push him anymore" On March 20 2013 00:04 TranceStorm wrote: I didn't vote for you though, and I didn't drop my case against DoYouHas. I just said that I would be willing to vote for you. I didn't have any unique reasons why; they had all been outlined beforehand by people like sciberia. If I were to switch my vote to you, I might have given a brief 2 liner about how lackluster your D1 posts seemed to be. I took this post out of context the first time i read it though. He is just saying that one day1 he had left his case in the air. Then he retracted it during the night. Maybe he was busy but it really doesn't look like he cared about the lynch at all. | ||
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March 19 2013 23:05 GMT
#1243
On March 20 2013 08:03 Vivax wrote: Well what is layabout meaning then if you didn't say anything regarding a confirmation. I've been arguing over him that you don't have to all be scum just cause you're being masoned, and he keeps arguing BH didn't slip cause you should all be scum if that was the case, which isn't true. How is layabout supposed to know that the logs were correct based on what VE and GK say, the argument is complete nonsense if you start from the assumption that: 1. GK would be scum anyway. 2. VE isn't in the same qt as GK As for the mason qt, why does BH need the hosts to make the last two if he was able to make one by himself first? Doesn't that mean that, by rules, the qt has to be created by the hosts? Or else he could simply open the last two by himself as well. How reliable is it that he's blaming his first qt on the host? VE admitted that they were masoning. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18083312 It makes no sense to think that BH would fake the logs. | ||
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March 19 2013 23:15 GMT
#1245
I don't want to look at BH until we have more masons out or flipped, it's really unlikely that grey would be the only one since he was supposed to be the vig. | ||
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March 19 2013 23:27 GMT
#1260
On March 20 2013 08:17 VisceraEyes wrote: Show nested quote + On March 20 2013 08:15 layabout wrote: It's possible that a hypothetical scum BH might fake one of the logs, but your argument for why that the GK one is fake is silly. I don't want to look at BH until we have more masons out or flipped, it's really unlikely that grey would be the only one since he was supposed to be the vig. This doesn't even make a single bit of sense. Do you think BH is scummy or not? We're not lynching or not lynching BH based on his ROLE laya that's absolutely asinine. We have no idea what to expect from scum powers and equally no idea what to expect in terms of town powers. It's normal so we have a rough idea, i think in the mafia podcast drh mentioned wanting to use hidden communication roles, if BH is the scum mason and can mason people all the time why would town's only mason be grey's role? Keir was saying that he thinks they will be balanced am i am inclined to agree. So i think it's more likely that his role belongs to town. BH's defense of GK was scummy. His filter looks quite normal for him, i tend to skim his posts. | ||
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March 19 2013 23:30 GMT
#1262
On March 20 2013 08:28 Wade Fell wrote: Show nested quote + On March 20 2013 08:27 layabout wrote: On March 20 2013 08:17 VisceraEyes wrote: On March 20 2013 08:15 layabout wrote: It's possible that a hypothetical scum BH might fake one of the logs, but your argument for why that the GK one is fake is silly. I don't want to look at BH until we have more masons out or flipped, it's really unlikely that grey would be the only one since he was supposed to be the vig. This doesn't even make a single bit of sense. Do you think BH is scummy or not? We're not lynching or not lynching BH based on his ROLE laya that's absolutely asinine. We have no idea what to expect from scum powers and equally no idea what to expect in terms of town powers. It's normal so we have a rough idea, i think in the mafia podcast drh mentioned wanting to use hidden communication roles, if BH is the scum mason and can mason people all the time why would town's only mason be grey's role? Keir was saying that he thinks they will be balanced am i am inclined to agree. So i think it's more likely that his role belongs to town. BH's defense of GK was scummy. His filter looks quite normal for him, i tend to skim his posts. Whose filter looks normal for whom? It rhymes with Glazingband | ||
layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
March 19 2013 23:39 GMT
#1269
I think that there are likely quite a few mason roles in this game because of greymists role, he is a sudo-mason/vig. It would be really weird if that was the only mason role that belongs to town. BH claims mason but a more powerful mason than grey. Either there are no more masons and since grey's mason is so weak i think that would leave BH town. Or there a more masons and one of the masons is scum. | ||
layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
March 20 2013 00:28 GMT
#1284
On March 20 2013 09:19 Vivax wrote: Well I read it right now but frankly I developed the feeling he is town, I find others way scummier than him and WoS is a newbie so I understand him being defensive, dunno why he rides so much on not knowing how to metaread though. + Show Spoiler + On March 20 2013 04:53 WaveofShadow wrote: Show nested quote + On March 20 2013 04:52 Vivax wrote: + Show Spoiler + On March 20 2013 04:51 zarepath wrote: VE, what is the name of your role? You never said, you just claimed Vet. What's the purpose of this question? Don't you believe the claim? Zare is scum rolecop imo It's a guy who says these things to a guy who asks questions to a claimed veteran. Kita don't you feel my Zarepath, GK and cosmicomics cases are good? I feel they are the strongest ones and I will likely not let go of those reads. I still have 2 wildcards currently occupied by Layabout and BH but TPS and glurio would fit in there too. It is no longer possible for me to interact with you without calling you stupid in some way. I think you are town. But my god... | ||
layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
March 20 2013 01:08 GMT
#1306
I want to resolve stuff to do with BH though. If you are a town aligned mason i strongly suggest claiming. night. | ||
layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
March 20 2013 01:10 GMT
#1307
On March 20 2013 10:03 Vivax wrote: I don't think MrWiggles is scum and I played with him as scum (and he got lynched D1), so I feel quite confident in that, I found many of his contributions useful and he's a middle-late joiner on the Grey wagon, which speaks against him being scum as well (and even more so for WoS being town since he was the last one) Since you guys all despise my reads I'll endorse a TPS lynch (he has been defended by my scumreads and is currently playing in a way I find openly and purposedly useless for scumhunting purpose, still feel it's more of a policy lynch if he gets lynched before my other scumreads) or a layabout lynch (openly scummy and anti-town too, doesn't give a fuck and doesn't cooperate). + Show Spoiler + On March 18 2013 14:14 Oatsmaster wrote: VOTE COUNT! ThePeashooter (0): goodkarma (1): Coagulation (0): GreYMisT (12): testsubject893 (0): Sandroba (0): zarepath (6): DoYouHas (1): TranceStorm cosmicomics (0): DarthPunk (3): Vivax (0):: VisceraEyes (0): Voting is compulsory w8 wtf are you talking about? | ||
layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
March 20 2013 15:53 GMT
#1619
that should be the first thing you do. On March 20 2013 23:14 DarthPunk wrote: For those who somehow don;t understand why I have a problem with all these town reads with little to no reasoning. Townies just don't think that way. I think I have one solid town read at the moment and I am still not sold on it. So i really don;t know what the fuck people are talking about when they produce town reads and especially 180's from thin air with some weak as shit EXCUSE. Because that is what all the reasoning for these town reads are. Excuses to think they are town. There is no analysis that will sway others to the read. and there is nothing that I can empathise with in terms of mindset. DP it's called positive elimination, and it's quite a nice approach, though it does leave you kinda stuck on some day1's if town is playing like crap. It's only a problem if people do it wrong or talk about townreads unnecessarily. On March 20 2013 23:56 Mocsta wrote: ##Unvote I cant see you fabricating that post to TPS, as premeditation for this roleclaim. Show nested quote + "Alright let's try TPS now. First of all, fuck you. First thing I was asked after Daypost popped up was do I want to sheep BH's case against you, and I said no, because I believed you were actually maybe capable of doing something useful for the town. Guess I was wrong. Second, inexperienced maybe. Scum, no. I haven't formed any major cases because I honestly can't find a target that hasn't been scrutinized to death already that I could bring something new to the table for. So I act with my vote when I need to. I don't exactly think I've been non-confrontational at all this game, but of course that's a matter of perception. I guess everything I did during the day can just be ignored as well as what I'm doing now, sure. I wish, I WISH you didn't look scummy as fuck because then I'd make a case against YOU, but I still believe you are town, fuck if I know why. Gut reads doing me real justice thus far." I have seen newbie DT act the way you have before.. so dont beat yaself up too harshly This is enough to keep WoS alive, it's far more likely that his posting would be consistent with his crumbs as town than mafia. In my experience mafia might crumb but they will not play and think like a DT/rolecop. Today we should kill BH(Wade Fell). It's extremely likely that the mirror exists and it likely one of the mirror and BH is scum. Given his unusual defense of GK I think it's quite likely that BH is scum! ##Vote Wade Fell | ||
layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
March 20 2013 15:59 GMT
#1625
On March 21 2013 00:57 VisceraEyes wrote: The "Mirror" is a third party cult leader of some kind and he tried to recruit me last night. Everyone beware "The Mirror" - he is in our midst and he will try and convert you too. well shit | ||
layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
March 20 2013 16:02 GMT
#1626
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
March 20 2013 16:11 GMT
#1629
On March 19 2013 14:51 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I've changed my mind: Mason logs = ok You can paraphrase but not quote role pms. | ||
layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
March 20 2013 16:29 GMT
#1640
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
March 20 2013 16:48 GMT
#1655
On March 21 2013 01:44 Mocsta wrote: Show nested quote + On March 21 2013 01:42 Ace wrote: I dont have one, and I don't think it's important right now.Lynch VE. haha you funny gai Lets be real here.. why the fuck would a guy claim in the thread he is 3rd party.. doesnt make sense Im putting it out there. i dont think VE is a stupid guy. u might, but i dont. Man have i thought like you are thinking before marvellosity as VisceraEyes has been endgamed. Show nested quote + You are VisceraEyes! I'm sorry, someone had be to him. You are compelled to claim at times that players never thought possible. During the day, you may claim publicly that you are any basic role. (Pairity cop, Medic, Tracker, Watcher, Jailer) and reveal your target. You will become this role for the following night targeting that player. You may not use this power to become the same role more than once. If you are roleblocked, your "shot" will be refunded. You win with town. + Show Spoiler + On March 17 2012 06:08 VisceraEyes wrote: People need to get over this fear of large posts. First of all, if everyone condensed their posts into larger, better thought out posts then spam wouldn't be as much of an issue. Second of all, larger posts means more information, regardless of whether you think it's "useful" information or not, and as such should be read completely every time. I request a gun so I can shoot people I think are skipping over large posts. | ||
layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
March 20 2013 16:57 GMT
#1671
##vote VisceraEyes | ||
layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
March 20 2013 17:02 GMT
#1683
my point is that VE has claimed roles like this a bunch of times and trying to rationalise or wifom it doesn't help. He claimed 3rd party so we lynch him. | ||
layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
March 20 2013 17:05 GMT
#1685
On March 21 2013 02:00 Mocsta wrote: anyways... layabouts mention of the mirror is that the first instance in the thread? Read the thread!!!! QUOTE]On March 20 2013 10:20 VisceraEyes wrote: I've got another visitor to my PM box. "The Mirror" has masoned me now. No indication as to what player it is, and the QT is empty aside from me trying to get acknowledgement from whomever it is. I'm so sick and tired of being a pivotal piece in these games while simultaneously being ignored by half the players. X([/QUOTE] | ||
layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
March 20 2013 17:09 GMT
#1692
On March 21 2013 02:03 zarepath wrote: Show nested quote + On March 21 2013 01:58 WaveofShadow wrote: On March 21 2013 01:56 Mocsta wrote: With the information standing.. this is fuckn suspicious, and whose pushing the VE vote. its ACE Why cant he be the mirror? Seriously.. why the fuck would VE out himself like this... I dont see what layabout posted has anythign to do with it.. OK hes a compulsive claimer..perhaps.. surely thats only as blue roles.. not a claimer as scum/3rd party.. The whole situation doesnt make sense. You're right, it doesn't, but until given more information what else can we go on? We can't risk an outed 3rd party with possible empowered role escaping unpunished. We totally, absolutely can. There's no evidence of any 3rd party kill power yet, so it's not like we lose much yet, and we have scum to still find. If we lynch 3rd party today and scum uses 2 KP tonight, we're kind of in a precarious situation with only one serious lynch of information to go off of, and that was the crazy Day 1 mislynch. I think we're far better off looking for scum for the rest of the day than we are instantly agreeing that we shoudl lynch VE. It is super easy for scum to agree to this and look pro-town. The need to look for scum doesn't change the fact that we should lynch VE. What do you make of these 3? TestSubject893 glurio TranceStorm | ||
layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
March 20 2013 17:18 GMT
#1697
+ Show Spoiler + On March 20 2013 07:24 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Ok, I'm back. About the Peashooter case. Can someone point out the scum motivations in his posting to me? I see there's a case, but some of it seems like it's on an emotional basis, and some it's based on activity, neither of which I see as being valid for calling him scum. Reading through his posts, I don't see scum motivation though. He's not trying to misdirect us, and he's not trying that much to fit in and hide. The feeling I get from him is that he's just pretty angry, but it seem honest. For example, he got all mad at Coag, but then later he gets all mad at Kenpachi for similar reasons. So, he's consistent with it. Deleted a bit about layabout, I like his recent posting. I'm waiting on a couple of other people to continue posting. I'd like to see how they react to recent developments. As for VE/BH, I don't want to lynch into them right now. I'd rather let scum or vigs sort them out for us. I find them hard to read, because they play very emotionally, and they do/say a lot of things I find scummy/disagree with from a play perspective on a regular basis. If VE was actually shot, and BH is a mason, then scum will have to go after them sooner or later. If they don't, they're either going to start to doing good work as town, or else they're going to out themselves as scum, because if I remember right, their scum play isn't the greatest compared to their town play. I think we can find better targets for today. I'm going to do some stuff, and then read through some of the other posters who haven't really caught my attention or who have been avoiding the spotlight. I feel there's a good chance of finding scum among them. Afterwards he pressured WoS but that was only after Kitaman27 made him. He has a short interaction with Kenpachi and look at his vote: On March 20 2013 12:55 Mr. Wiggles wrote: He qualifies he vote by saying that he WoS is bad or scum. I am not used to wiggles voting in this way and it suggests to me that wiggles just think he is bad, but is willing to vote anyway.Hey everyone, look how mad I am! I must be town, because I'm sooooooooooooooo frustrated! I'm tired of people making cases on me based on me not sitting on my ass playing mafia all day to the exclusion of other things. You don't see me blowing up. Because stupid emotional appeals are shit play or scum trying to worm out of a lynch. ##Vote: WaveofShadow | ||
layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
March 20 2013 18:08 GMT
#1755
i will be back in a few hours. | ||
layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
March 21 2013 01:25 GMT
#1945
We should kill wiggles tonight, since i expect a lot more from him when he rolls town. Vivax there is not way i could write like "The mirror" does in that qt you seem to be mad at me because i called what you were doing and saying dumb. But it was and you need to come to terms with this. This game the effort you have put in has been orders of magnitude better than you did in the last two games and there is next to no chance that you are scum. maybe read this (post 228): http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/rXAf5L6B4Z4e6 Whilst i no longer think zarepath is scum your analysis of him was good. Do more of that. | ||
layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
March 21 2013 01:40 GMT
#1953
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
March 21 2013 01:46 GMT
#1958
If you leave VE alive because of _________insert bullcrap here________add some nonsense__________ lynch wiggles. | ||
layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
March 21 2013 14:28 GMT
#2297
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
March 21 2013 14:37 GMT
#2302
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
March 21 2013 14:54 GMT
#2305
On March 21 2013 23:39 Mocsta wrote: Show nested quote + On March 21 2013 23:37 layabout wrote: Mocsta you have 12 pages of filter from before you read the thread FFS stop playing like this!!! Excuse me. Where were u when the thread was at a critical point? U can attack me for a spammy filter whatever..but at least I was here when it mattered In bed asleep because i live in England and it was 2am-7am and you all thought it was a great time to dick on everything that happened when ppl were here. There is a reason days are 48 hours long. Also you were spamming when you hadn't even read the fucking thread. How in god's name are you playing when you have not read the fucking thread? And how can what you are saying be of value? | ||
layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
March 21 2013 15:07 GMT
#2310
On March 22 2013 00:02 Mocsta wrote: Show nested quote + On March 21 2013 23:54 layabout wrote: On March 21 2013 23:39 Mocsta wrote: On March 21 2013 23:37 layabout wrote: Mocsta you have 12 pages of filter from before you read the thread FFS stop playing like this!!! Excuse me. Where were u when the thread was at a critical point? U can attack me for a spammy filter whatever..but at least I was here when it mattered In bed asleep because i live in England and it was 2am-7am and you all thought it was a great time to dick on everything that happened when ppl were here. There is a reason days are 48 hours long. Also you were spamming when you hadn't even read the fucking thread. How in god's name are you playing when you have not read the fucking thread? And how can what you are saying be of value? It was rhetorical I knew where u were. Regardless u have been a non entity almost the entire game. I don't see how u can even want to contest that. And dude. Stop throwing stones from glass houses, cos.. Whats ya point here. We just had a mislynch, and when shit went down u weren't here. Where is your effort to figure out how we got to an ace lynch. Instead. What we get is u throwing shit at me. And for what purpose? How is this solving the game? If u think I'm scum.. Call me scum.. Say I'm spamming and prove I have added zero value. Otherwise, go and do some thing useful...hint.. Trying to discredit me does not count. YOUR SHITTING ON THE THREAD AND I AM SICK OF THE TASTE I don't care about discrediting you i care about you ruining the games i play in, you are not helping us find scum by playing so irresponsibly. + Show Spoiler + 40 posts a day cycle should NOT be a non-entity but this is a discussion that doesn't belong in this game | ||
layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
March 21 2013 15:33 GMT
#2318
http://wiki.epicmafia.com/index.php?title=Cultist http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Category:Alignment-Changing_roles I know these sites work a bit differently to us especially epicmafia. I was pretty sure VE was town and if there are conversion mechanics in this game (which there should be) would it benefit him to come out like this at all? The mason logs suggest he could choose to be converted so whatever we are dealing with must be a bit different to the traditional cultist. If VE is 3rd party the only reliable way to kill him is the lynch so we need to come to a decision on him. | ||
layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
March 21 2013 15:49 GMT
#2322
On March 22 2013 00:42 Vivax wrote: If the cultist mechanic works like it's written there we should try to find and kill the leader anyway, not lynch VE. The first concern is to get rid of scum though. But if the cultist mechanic works like that then since we have had 2 days we have already lost and that just doesn't seem likely. Even though people complain sometimes, TL games tend to be well balanced and the team that get's the most lynches/mislynches wins nearly every time. I think we need a better idea of what we are dealing with because at the moment VE is a risk that we don't want at lylo. | ||
layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
March 21 2013 17:28 GMT
#2347
On March 22 2013 02:02 goodkarma wrote: Would it be possible for us to, like maybe, consolidate on the top two candidates like ~halfway through the day cycle so that, like maybe, we can have a more decisive vote result that can actually be analyzed? It turned into a 3-way split result... Like how in the fuck did you expect things would end well? But goodkarma, you switched too... There were like 4+ people who couldn't be bothered to consolidate on the top two candidates of the day (VE/Mr. Wiggles), and I thought fuck it (I know, not great reasoning... feel free to hammer me but tbh exactly my thought process). What I saw in Mr. Wiggle's most recent case was what I perceived to be a blatant scumslip. We're talking about the legendary ace. Wanting to hunt who he thought to be 3P and not scum. It just didn't make sense from a town perspective, so even if he wasn't in the game that long I opted to lynch him. But if you want a TL;DR for what to take from the ace mislynch: We need to consolidate on two candidates, and anyone who can't be bothered to and/or brings up new candidates late in the cycle should be looked at with extra suspicion. Maybe some people here didn't know better before, but you do now. So no more excuses. Maybe you don't understand Ac'e perspective. When i think of Ace i think of this post and the terrible town he was hating on. But in it he outlines an outlook for town that we desperately NEED. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=14289367 + Show Spoiler [Ace's Running Diary of Shitsville] + Day 1: I'm writing this during Day 2, since I realized I probably should have this as an end of game write up similar to the last few games I've hosted. To start off I'm going to address a certain Scum player, namely syllogism's bitching. First and foremost if you signed up for this game, there was a clear warning to read Death Factory Mafia 1. You know this is a real time game. As with every game of Mafia if you aren't around there is nothing to be done. Tough shit. The nature of this game doesn't change that as games with Day kills and Majority Lynch work the same way. That being said I have a co-host in Kurumi that lives in Europe. So you've got 2 people in different parts of the world that can take your responses. Secondly, myself and Qatol tried to make the game fun and keep some balance. Both sides have Toys that can be considered overpowered. No toy with the exception of the Nullifier Toy is really able to just run rampant. Of course the guy complaining has this very same Scum Toy but lets ignore that for a second. Some of the mass manipulation Toys have to use their powers publicly, the information toys are of EXTREMELY narrow use and suffer in that the Scum have the Nullifier and an unblockable Night KP. Not only is there the standard problem of a detective roleclaiming and the mafia doing what they should to throw dirt on him aka playing the fucking game and using your head, but they have at LEAST 2 ways of dealing with him. When syllogism bitched about Bill Murray "confirming" 2 players he actually dug his own grave. No one is confirmed until someone dies or a situation exists where Player A AND Player B must be opposing alignments. On Day 1 this isn't even possible mere hours into the game. There was also another issue I should mention. My name is not Ver. My name is not Incognito. I don't know what they did to allow Mafia players to send in PMs for their buddies and use their powers in other games. I don't give a shit. I'm Ace. I very rarely allow players to use INDIVIDUAL Scum Powers as a group. That's pretty ridiculous as in a real time game if any of the 5 Scum players are online they can just willy nilly screw shit up. The Town doesn't have this luxury. If you don't like it - don't sign up. When you type /confirm in the thread I assume you read your role, read the OP, and read the part in the OP where it points you to DFM 1 so you can read that too. This isn't a surprise. Back to balance though. In the event the Town goes through all the hoops, gets a confirmed Detective result and has confirmed Town guess what? They still have to work together and lynch Scum. Depending on where Scum is located (well, not really) on Day 1 this would be a massive chore. Between the Nullifier Toy, Hidden Pops, BB Toy's ability to move itself, and the Hulk Toy with it's double distance PoP power and SMASH! failsafe that just lets me know I made a massive mistake. I as usual always randomize the teams. I don't even care if you don't know how to play Scum. You'll learn. Kurumi talked to me right as I sent out the last role PM to Mr.Zentor. He expressed his concerns that the Scum team isn't very good. I didn't want to randomize everyone again since everyone in the game had their roles and would know "extra" information to start off if I did so. Before Day 1 even ended and right around the time I realized how many good things were going the Scum's way I decided to check their QT just to see if they figured stuff out. I really wish Kurumi showed up an hour before I sent those role PMs. Turns out he was being gracious. I really hope that they turn around and put their heads together and look at the big picture. I seriously underestimated how much crying, complaining and inattentiveness a collective Scum group can wind up creating since it's been a while that I've had to play with such players. Yea, from now on I won't randomize an entire Scum team. Not all of them are bad but together this just doesn't work. As for the game, Day 1s summary can look like this in a nutshell. When Palmar clammored for the item, Cephiro did the correct thing: question him. Palmar wasn't even contributing to the thread. But because he happens to be closest to the item he deserves it? I'd probably have tagged Cephiro with a "leaning Town" trait after this. The Town kept pushing Palmar to the item, where of course he gets Nullified. The Scum took a long time to decide on whether to Nullify him or not. That isn't bad at all, but they could have crushed Palmar ages ago if you feel he is that dangerous. When VE decides to save him I thought this made him look much more likely to be Town. Was a good idea even though he didn't know Palmar's alignment. Just by keeping it simple: Palmar wanted an item. Palmar got stuck trying to get it. Someone screwed him in the red zone. Probably Scum. The funny thing is that Tobon would have been able to save Palmar by using his 1-shot power. I'm glad he didn't though. The Town roleclaimed so much information (Bluelightz??) that the Scum don't need more help right now. Speaking of roleclaims, the Scum overreaction to risk.nuke was crazy. Even assuming he IS telling the truth: 1 out 3. ONE out of 3. Hell, the Town might think it's 2 out of 3 or all 3 being Scum. So they cause a big crying storm about it - and proceed to kill Palmar night 1. Good job, the role you're worried about you let live for a guy who didn't even do anything for 48 hours. Palmar's reputation must be epic because by literally sitting on his ass and *yawning* through the game he might have screwed the Scum team over anyway. Impressive. Not only did the overraction to risk.nuke expose them, but Bill Murray. I've already illustrated that both teams have OP roles. In the EXTREMELY unlikely event that Bill Murray would ever be able to mass confirm a bunch of Townies, he has a 1 shot power. Even if he swung a full range of 3 and got back that there is at least 1 Scum hiding in 5 players...come on. Both Detective results give the possibility of there being at least 1 Scum in the vicinity - not even singling you out. Add in the problems with getting rid of a Scum player when found and they weren't thinking ahead enough to realize that the two Town Detectives aren't really that strong unless they get superbly lucky. Ignoring Mr.Zentor's role all they do is generally serve as a basic guide in where to start looking for Scum. The end of Day 1 was a victory for them though: No dead Scum, VE dead, and this should be the known information: prphlz knows Snarfs' role. He made a gigantic mistake when he said the role was mod confirmed. Basically letting slip he has a Mason type role since Masons almost always know each other's alignment as Innocent to start the game. This should by extension give you insight into Snarfs' role. Bluelightz role. Palmar's role. VE's role. risk.nuke's PCT. Bill Murray's role. layabout. Just read DFM 1 to give you some kind of idea. They don't know that it's the Pow Pow Toy for sure, but they should understand that once he admitted to not being able to PoP he gave himself away. Mattchew. Don't even know why he gave away that info. The weird thing about all of this? None of the Scum revealed any information about their roles. If enough of these guys flip soon enough, someone may put 2 and 2 together and question why some people hid their roles. Of course the obvious answer is "because I'm not silly enough to roleclaim with for no reason" but we've seen Scum panic for less. layabout shot Sbrubbles which was a bad shot. Soon as he came back his posts were pretty decent. But a word of advice to vigis: If a lurking player who says he was busy or w/e shows up and actually posts something worth reading, then shoot the scummiest person first. If there isn't one then hold your shot. Sbrubbles should have lived. Day 2 Notes: I said this like 50 times but "Read DFM 1" didn't sink in. They also aren't putting 2 and 2 together. Some of the roles should realize based on the Day 2 OP that while they are blind - they aren't helpless. If they PM'd me to use their roles they COULD find out some information about their position, whether their are toys around, and most importantly whether they can even use an action. Why is this important? Because Snarfs + prplhz would catch Nemesis as Scum. The game is designed so that some powers have options of countering others dircetly, and not purely by design indirectly. Snarfs + prplhz know they always start near each other no matter what. If either of them tried to hop over the other right now, they'd get a PM from me telling them they can't do it. They'd immediately know the queue got rearranged somehow before the lights come back on. This would of course lead to thinking who has the ability to rearrange the queue, leading us back to looking at DFM 1s role list, the Hulk Toy, and calling bs on Nemesis claiming he pushed Tobon 3 spots. Which in itself would be a pretty terrible thing to do first minute of the day in the complete dark. wbg should just stop asking people who they want to kill today. It doesn't even matter right now. Isn't going to improve anyone's reads and really everything should be about Cephiro and syllogism. Then again Cephiro's case against syllogism is rock solid, add in the fact that the guy was complaining about balance for the Scum team and this is really a no brainer. Cephiro could be Scum, but their is a mountain of evidence against syllogism. In fact if I was playing this game I'd refuse to do anything for the Town unil this situation is resolved. Look at the big picture, fix the easy stuff first. Worry about everything else later or until more information comes through. Of course Snarfs answers that he'd kill Wiggles. /facepalm. Too many diverging paths of discussion. This is exactly why I tell people don't post a big scum/town read posts: They don't help at all except in very specific circumstances. Surely you should realize by now letting the Mafia know which Townies are easy to pit against you or get shown in a bad light isn't a good idea. Cephiro is pretty much almost surely Town at this point. While a major portion of it is his willingness to find out syllo's alignment, there is a major, major, major red flag that the Town isn't looking at: Notice how many people aren't even trying to resolve this issue! A long time ago when I wrote some advice about playing this game, one of the first things I said is KEEP IT SIMPLE. Screw Wifom (sometimes). If you believe risk.nuke is a legit DT as most of the Town did on Day 1, who gives a fuck about Bluelightz right now? Yes, Bluelightz is pretty bad but that has a lot to do with so many Town players roleclaiming Day 1 like foolish players that they are. risk.nuke: 3 players, AT LEAST 1 is Scum. 1 of those players die Night 1. 50/50 shot at finding Scum out of a pool of 2 players. You can't see the queue. Fuck everything else and resolve the SIMPLE case of 2 players before everything else. wbg is so close to putting it together but keeps WIFOMING himself. Different players play Scum/Town in their own way. Being careful isn't a Scum trait. Thinking about your roleclaim isn't Scum trait. If Cephiro seems to be playing an in your face style, that means he is CONFIDENT, not Scum/Town and almost surely knows that regardless of his alignment whatever plan he has is going to work or expose someone trying to stop it. If he isn't trying to troll you and isn't causing disruption - chances are he's trying hard to make you see what he is seeing. Transparency is often a "Town" trait, but when a guy is begging you to reconsider your stance, answers every question thrown his way, and even admits that he might be wrong and is willing to be proven wrong and admits so then it's time to KEEP IT SIMPLE: Cephiro is willing to participate, syllogism is throwing mud everywhere and his Day 1 play is textbook Scum overreaction to information that the Town doesn't have. You don't even need to write down any important posts in a notepad. You've found your scum and even have a Townie that pretty much needs to die asap. The great thing about this? Scum with their ridiculous N1 kill of Palmar, now are probably fucked in 3 ways. 1.) risk.nuke is alive on Day 2 and can use his power. 2.)Cephiro is going to be the new voice of reason. 3.)not only can syllogism not nullify both of them, if he dies once he flips both of these players NEED to die and they can only kill 1. 4.)whoops forgot the 4th way to fuck themselves over: Bill Murray's roleclaim is almost guaranteed (funny how this happens) because syllogism's constant crying about it will make people believe it's true once he flips Scum. Not thinking through Night Kills: always comes back to bite you. This Bluelightz shit is really dumb. Even worse when I randomized the queue after Nemesis Smash! and he ended up in the red zone. Monumental waste of time. I didn't plan for it to work out this way but I'm glad it did. If people just pulled their heads out of their ass and go back to DFM 1 where this same shit happened they'd learn. Work with what you KNOW first, worry about the UNKNOWN later. IN DFM 1 the Town knew about the Police Car Toy's ability and the Vengeance Toy's ability. Instead of trying to bleed information from other sources, it became an argument about chaoser over literally nothing. Chaoser of course decided to fuck everyone over even though he was Town and that ended the game. If the Town just went back to Day 1, they'd at least stick with one of the players that didn't PoP probably has hidden abilities. Layabout shows up as the killer of Sbrubbles and now you've got Mr.Zentor on a hot seat. No clue what Bill Murray is doing. Uh oh. By nullifying Cephiro, syllogism sealed probably sealed his fate. Damn, monumental screw up here. Scum didn't coordinate enough I think? Something isn't right here with their timing. Not sure what they are trying to accomplish with Cephiro. Well, Cephiro got Nullified at the perfect time. He didn't get to the Item, but he got stopped 1 spot short of the incinerator. No way Scum could have known but this is brutal timing. cascades shows up, PoPs Cephiro and disappears. Right now everyone except Acrofales, who has been a little reckless with the logic in his posts is exposed. Not sure fire lynches except syllogism and Nemesis soon, but if those 2 fall it would take a major derp moment from the Town (which as usual will happen right on schedule) to throw them off the track of the remaining Scum. No matter what happens though, Scum need scapegoats to stay alive at all costs and mass lynch everyone soon. Everything is coming back to the N1 kill now: Waste of time killing Palmar. Get rid of risk.nuke, go into the dark and let the panic commence. Nullify the first player that even tries to screw up whatever plan you're coming up with. Let the Darkness Toy do all the work of manipulating the Town to PoP people into the terrible places, and let the Merciless Toy move people around with one of his hidden PoPs. Use the public one when convenient. go into Day 3 with a couple of dead Townies and you're pretty much set. Not enough Town PoPs (that they know of) to just push them around the queue freely. It already takes the Town so much work to get stuff done - make it even harder and frustrating. Let Bluelightz's roleclaim Day 1 be the undoing of the Town. It was pretty bad play for him to claim, and pretty bad of the Town to jump on him for it even though they kind of had to once Day 2 started. You've already sewn the seeds, now sit back. You started the wagon, let them roll it down the hill. One of the defining traits of being Master Scum is getting the ball rolling and getting away from the scene when the blood spills. Stupid Towns will point the blame at each other and not go back to read the thread and see when you got things going. When they finally pin you? Just say you only mentioned the idea and even though you admit your mistake and still think you made the right choice, some other guy (a convenient sheep Townie) ran with it. Make it look like someone else took what you merely suggested to another level. That's how you defer responsibility and punish the players that don't think for themselves or read. So far the mistake of the Scum, along with complaining about balance when myself and Qatol both agreed they had about as good as a Day 1 a Scum team could ask for, have probably the most OP role in the game with the Nullifier Toy, can throw the place into a pitch black slate and have hidden double PoPs is they are playing the game based on ROLES and not on manipulation. Kill what you can, manipulate who you can't kill. KEEP IT SIMPLE. When everyone starts trying to PoP syllogism, or in the instance they try to pull prphlz and he falls off early. Nemesis is fucked. Cephiro deserves an award for knowing how to read. His plan to get pushed to an item and swap with syllogism is a great example of making sure he understood his role and the game mechanics and abuse it to his advantage. Add in his awesome thread presence and this is the kind of player I wanted to see in the game. So many ways to counter "bad" situations for both sides, and the Scum could have even done more damage if they were patient. Just have a good thread presence, use those scum/town lists to pit each other against one another and let them push each other around in the dark. You'd probably live and go into Night 2 with syllogism being the only real one to die. And if you've been paying attention to my advice about Scum: going into Day 3 with only 1 dead Scum player? good. wbg finally comes to his senses and realizes syllogism has to be scum once Cephiro is nullified. They still want to try and push him though even though they can't see? Why? If anything you'd want to kill him ASAP by PULLING him off the queue. *Looks at PoP list*. Well, no wonder. People already used up Pulls for no reason. This is also a good time to mention that the Scum probably haven't figured out that Snarfs and prphlz are masons of some sort. Mr.Zentor asks if the Town could kill Tobon. Why? No idea. But if he ever gets seriously accused little things like that are going to add up. I've already spoke on the Cephiro/syllogism situation being the #1 thing to resolve right now. The Bluelightz stuff isn't important but to the Town it's a clear #2. Why would anyone want to even think about Tobon right now? Because they have information about his role/alignment, aren't reading the thread, or are Scum. Really sucks when it turns out that it's all 3. I would not be surprised if he is killed by layabout tonight. Tobon just hit the #revive button. Shit just got wild. Cephiro wasn't in danger of dying but Tobon did the right thing. Just in case he was going to die, he belives that Scum can probably see in the dark, and/or he believes that Cephiro getting nullified means he must be Innocent. Good move to do it just in case. Nemesis is going to feel great about escaping the shitfest that would have hit him when the lights came on. Mr.Zentor just said he knew his PoP didn't count. Cephiro called him on it. MVP performance. Shit, now he's calling out cascades too. Well, this is going downhill for the Scum. Good thing is just being accused is laughable to seasoned Scum vets. You know that until your body is hanging from the rope you are still a threat. They may not be good Scum players but everyone has to learn sometime. Maybe this will be their chance. Looking at the now reset queue positions, NOW syllogism is in trouble. WOW. Dude was safe from PUSHES for sure, but now? 2 and he's in the red. Fucking hell on earth. Wow. Nemesis made a solid post. When he said prphlz was defending syllogism that isn't exactly true but prphlz has been slightly chaotic enough that people won't read to check the accuracy. But, when he said Wiggles was speculating on the NK to get the Town to think syllogism is not Scum? That's a massive leap. Should be careful. I used to have a rule about Speaking for Dead Townies. Pretty much don't try and draw too many conclusions from someone's posts if the facts aren't concrete. If a guy didn't say something, try not to insinuate. This goes doubly for players that are still breathing. Nemesis does the double whammy and not only tries to speak for Wiggles, but throws VEs name into the pool too. If Mr.Wiggles DID do that, at the very least point out the post and bury his ass. Without if Wiggles storms back and starts deconstructing that post it won't be a good look. Tobon's accuracy is starting to get nasty. The synergy between him and Cephiro would make me worried if I'm scum. Mattchew is just not a useful Townie at all right now since he doesn't appear to be reading the thread. Scum still have enough sheep to throw in their path before they even approach the block right now. Funny enough a bit after I wrote this wherebugsgo calls him scum for not reading the thread. wbg may be aggresive but just like I do he refuses to believe Townies would really not read the thread and post ridiculous stuff so often. Can't blame him at all. cascades...yea. There goes the 2nd obvious lynch. Absolutely ridiculous post. Tobon and Snarfs BOTH ate it up. Literally just told on himself and at the very least showed as someone not even reading the thread. syllogism picked up a teleportation device. Talk about reversal of fortune. The Town's mistake here is they didn't understand that if they think syllogism is confirmed scum, they want to kill him immediately. That means going the other way and pulling him was the optimal choice. Even so, once you PUSH him and see he's in the red? Push him off asap. No telling what item he has. Funny thing is if Snarfs waited 5 more minutes, the Item would have turned into a Refresher Orb. THAT would have been good for the Town. Cephiro calling for syllogism to pushed over the edge. Chances are he got 4 of the 6 items that could save his so getting rid of him asap is the right call. MVP performance so far. And yea he called out cascade on his crap post. If layabout shows up and reads the thread this is going to be ugly. Syllo's "if I were scum I would I would have nullified myself" is probably like the 4th final nail in his coffin. It's so easy to refute it's laughable. If he were scum, he could also just nullify Cephiro since they don't want him to grab an item. Update: Syllogism just said he would have nullified himself if he was Scum. How does he know that's even possible? Oh boy. cascades comes back with a post just as bad as the last one. If layabout lives, one of them dies for sure tonight. Acrofales to the rescue: That is how you buss a teammate. When he's literally at the end of his rope, conveniently point out that no one knows anything about the nullifier and that he's wifoming himself. If syllo comes out today alive you still get some Townie cred. Didn't even have to stick his neck out to do it. /golfclap Tobon so smart. Thinking about how the toys are randomly generated = win. well, Acrofales threw it down the drain. Tobon is doing very well right now. Telling players not to speculate about the setup in a closed setup is pretty bad. Townies are supposed to do so if they want a reasonable shot at figuring out what's going on. Still, he's probably safe from any Town pointing him out. 5:38PM April 5th: Bluelightz is the 6th Scum. Acrofales just did the right thing and threw a little more dirt on him. Roles aren't tied to alignment, so telling everyone your role and then using it to say you're confirmed is just stupid on so many levels. Either you aren't reading, or most likely just aren't thinking at all. Townies like that deserve to get instant lynched Day 1 and vigi shot every game. A long time ago I wrote about how there are certain players you should always kill no matter what role they have until they show better ability: lurkers, disruptive players, people that don't read the thread but are still active. If every vigilante followed this advice I guarantee Town win chances would sky rocket. syllogism has used the transporter also. Uncoordination from the Town is probably going to end up being the saving grace for Scum. Layabout is going to cry when he realizes the mistake he made just got doubled. no idea what the hell risk.nuke is doing. Maybe he didn't read the thread yet? If he would have used his power he would have caught Acrofales, and if Mr.Zentor caught an accidental bullet they'd both be gone. Poor Mr.Wiggles. If only he was more active earlier. Looks like his clear thinking ways have shown up too late to be of use. Acrofales hits him with the first punch (Scum MVP so far), prplhz throws a left hook (why?), and Nemesis shows up with the uppercut to end it. Just like that, 2 Scum and a Townie kill off the influence. As usual in Mafia games, nothing is certain till the Town gets off track. Mattchew isn't reading at all. Scum finally stopped worrying about confirmed Townies and roles and started using their heads. Maybe there is hope for them after all. Throw dirt on the "good" townies, abuse the foolish ones, sheep them to death and ride your pseudo scum allies to victory. KEEP IT SIMPLE! Funny note: Bugs is currently surrounded by 3 players, 2 of which are Scum. Oh the irony. For now I'm going to stop reading the thread since there is really no way for the Town to recover. 6 hours left in the day and a few things sealed their fate: 1.) Bad Townies ruined any chance of cohesion. 2.) layabout getting swapped into the queue. 3.) No one paying attention to the opening post and trying to use their powers. Maybe it isn't clear enough, but I know it's explicitly stated that powers targeting specific players DO still work. 4.) Not instantly pulling syllogism instead of pushing. Screw the queue - pull him away from the item so he has no chance of getting anything and instantly killing him. Maybe the 3rd time this game is run people will finally understand how to use the mechanics to their full advantage. Of course if I do run this game a third time I'm only taking people I personally know that are really good players. Doubt I'll hit 20 players but who cares? If you go read Ver's How To Play Guide you'll notice the section talking about keeping the Town on a need to know basis. No one needs a running update on every thing you think. Scum/Town lists are usually crap. Everyone keeps sidetracking the discussion and the reason bad players generally stay bad is they lose focus and can't finish a task. Note that this is very different from tunneling. When you tunnel a player, you don't even consider what is going on in the thread and only care about a conviction. What I'm talking about here is noticing what is going on, keeping tabs on everything, but only pushing the agenda and responding to things that will secure a lynch or finish a task. If someone directs a question specifically at you of course you answer it, but make it clear what your priority is. ---Day 3 Saturday 7:14 PM ET risk.nuke should use his power ASAP. Oh well. prplhz realizes Mr.Zentor is scum! Hooray! Doesn't matter, he better start getting persuasive asap. He also called out Nemesis a bit. If he's a truly clever bastard, after pulling Mr.Zentor all the way down to 5 on the queue(!) he'd ask Nemesis to pull Mr.Zentor too. As soon as he hesistates pocket his response for later, get rid of syllo and Mr.Zentor today and begin the annihilation. Probably won't happen as he's been all over the place this game. While the Town keeps talking about lynching Wiggles and being wrong about it because they are speaking for dead players, they are correct in that Mr.Wiggles inactivity is an issue. But once again they are losing focus: Work with what you know first. Get rid of the people who are Scummy due to their actions, worry about Wiggles later or let power roles with NK ability take care of him. Mr.Zentor and syllogism are all you really should care about right now. Dirkzor asking who are the last 2 players on a potential scum team without flipping the guys that need to die is a perfect example of how to distract the Town. Just keep tossing names around for the sake of discussion. Go back to Day 1, count how many people didn't use PoPs. You know that VE got hit by 2 anonymous Pushes. Check who is still alive from Day 1. Check it vs the roleclaims that are already out. Have fun. Mr.Zentor is starting to play like newbie scum. Lots of excuses. When a Townie asks you questions respond with some confidence and dont talk about the chaos going on with the Town/Palmar (there was none) or anyone else. If you didn't contribute then stick to your guns and say you were afk or at the very least admit you fucked up. Then tell the accuser what he wants to hear and see where it goes. Offering crap excuses vs good Town players usually means they will view you as a liability later on and lynch you NOW. Oh shit - prplhz just claimed for him AND Snarfs. Mason claim. Maybe he actually does know what he's doing now. Too bad he doesn't understand what they did early in the game isn't breadcrumbing. That's just leaking unconfirmed information aka delayed roleclaiming to look good later. HINT: Scum do this too. cascades is just posting just to post. I think if someone like Radfield or Fishball was in this game the Town would have wiped out half the Scum on Day 1. At the very least if you're going to say any cases made against Mr.Zentor can be used against THREE other players then you should point out these cases, break them down and prove it. If Mr.Zentor flips then cascades is definitely next. The nail in the coffin is this phrase though: "We pull Mr Wriggles down and to death since he is closer and more people agree he is scum." Not only is Mr.Zentor closer to the bottom. which implicates cascades IS NOT reading the thread but where are the legions of people that agree Mr.Wiggles is scum over Mr.Zentor? If you roll vigilante in the future that's how you hunt down Scum. Read posts, ask the simple questions, an get rid of players who won't help. Even if cascades just happened to be Town, this kind of post would really stand out as it's just a bunch of lump sum garbage and the guy isn't even trying to read the thread. Kill these guys ASAP. Going into LYLO with these players is a LOSS. Wiggles shows up with a plan at a bad time. FOCUS. Get rid of Mr.Zentor first before you talk about trying to find scum using risk.nuke's ability. Holy crap, Cephiro should have been awake. FOCUS! Should have used his pull on Zentor. Pulling cascades is just waiting resources. If the Town screws up today it is likely possible that I might call the game in favor of Mafia. If they lynch the the wrong players and have no way of killing Mafia tomorrow then I'll call it. 5:50 AM Sunday Morning Just came home from a wild party. Alcohol flowing from the bar. Women in tight dresses. Dancehall reggae blasting everywhere and the smell of weed smoke all over the place. Not drunk, but in a good mood. Read Bill Murray saying something about 3 cops, him being naive (???). Mattchew being Scum...Focus. Dumb town. All that jazz. I'm going to sleep as I've gotta go to the airport in about an hour. As bad as Mattchew has been I'm going to reiterate this one more time: Keep It Simple. Most of the Town agrees syllogism is Scum? check. How many Scum are dead so far? 0. Did Mattchew put syllogism in a position to die? Yes. Then it's a waste of time even trying to lynch Mattchew. It's also stupid. This is the dumbest set of players I've ever seen which includes games I've hosted and played in over about 7 years. Literally, just a bunch of scrubs. Instead of using their heads and getting rid of Scum asap...screw it. I'm not even going to repeat myself. If you've made it this far you already got the point. Read Incognito's "A General Guide To Mafia". Read Ver's "How To Improve" guide. From now on every game of Mafia you ever play THIS is what you will do: Open up a new file in Notepad. If you don't know how, go to "Start" in Windows. Go to "All Programs". Find Notepad, or NotePad++. Click on it. It will open. Trust me. List every player in the game. As you read the thread, make little notes next to their name in chronological order. You can also make a seperate column or new partition on the page to list KNOWN facts. This would be roleclaims, mod confirmed information, players' stances, and alignment flips. Do this again but list it as MOST LIKELY information. This above all else will change all the time. This includes your current reads on everyone's alignments along information you can infer about people's roles based on the thread and the mechanics of the game. Now all you have to do is read the game. Even if you aren't able to keep multiple lines of thought running in your head at least you'll always have a place to start tracking what you need to win as Town/Mafia every time you wake up. Remember my motto: Keep It Simple. We need to stay focused. Are you all willing to ignore this? On March 21 2013 01:47 Ace wrote: Who CARES if he is a Vet? He just posted logs of him joining a 3rd party and even said fuck the Town. This isn't hard. On March 21 2013 01:52 Ace wrote: Stop talking about other people and stay focused on one person at a time. Jesus I don't want to have to teach people how to play my first game back in months. Just dealwith VE now. Re-read the log: He accepted to join a 3rd party that clearly doesn't have interest in helping the Town. Whether VE is still Townis irrelevant: whatever powers he gets or grants to the 3rd party isn't going to help us. Lynch him now. Treat him like a self aware Miller and just solve the problem immediately. On March 21 2013 02:02 Ace wrote: We aren't going to stop scumhunting: that would be dumb. But leaving a claimed 3rd party player alive, when it empowers a player we have no idea about is just as dumb. I don't see how this is a difficult concept to understand. I guess you guys think leaving claimed Serial Killers alive is a good idea as long as they help the town. lulz. Since we cannot reliably kill him at night we should lynch him. | ||
layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
March 22 2013 01:02 GMT
#2461
In case i don't make it This is where i stand at the moment: Players most likely to be mafia: Trancestorm Goodkarma Players that stand a reasonable chance of being mafia@ Glurio Wade Fell (depending on other roles) TestSubject893 Mr. Wiggles Players that admited to being 3rd party and are currently advocating their own lynch: VisceraEyes | ||
layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
March 23 2013 02:14 GMT
#2542
So Mr. Wiggle's early contribution was for the most part, defending players. He attempts to stop wagons on Vivax, DarthPunk, Coagulation, ThePeashooter and DoYouHas. Why is this scummy? Well this type of posting is very easy when you know who town is. Vivax has flipped, TPS has a green check and i will wager the rest of these players are town too. Rather than looking for scum Wiggles falls back on trying to shit on cases that he knows are wrong and pushing his own mislynches grey and gk at the same time. On day 2 he pops in with this post: + Show Spoiler + On March 20 2013 07:24 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Ok, I'm back. About the Peashooter case. Can someone point out the scum motivations in his posting to me? I see there's a case, but some of it seems like it's on an emotional basis, and some it's based on activity, neither of which I see as being valid for calling him scum. Reading through his posts, I don't see scum motivation though. He's not trying to misdirect us, and he's not trying that much to fit in and hide. The feeling I get from him is that he's just pretty angry, but it seem honest. For example, he got all mad at Coag, but then later he gets all mad at Kenpachi for similar reasons. So, he's consistent with it. Deleted a bit about layabout, I like his recent posting. I'm waiting on a couple of other people to continue posting. I'd like to see how they react to recent developments. As for VE/BH, I don't want to lynch into them right now. I'd rather let scum or vigs sort them out for us. I find them hard to read, because they play very emotionally, and they do/say a lot of things I find scummy/disagree with from a play perspective on a regular basis. If VE was actually shot, and BH is a mason, then scum will have to go after them sooner or later. If they don't, they're either going to start to doing good work as town, or else they're going to out themselves as scum, because if I remember right, their scum play isn't the greatest compared to their town play. I think we can find better targets for today. I'm going to do some stuff, and then read through some of the other posters who haven't really caught my attention or who have been avoiding the spotlight. I feel there's a good chance of finding scum among them. As has been previously mentioned, this post is full of not scumhunting and a non-town mindset. He says the TPS isn't scum, he doesn't think i am scum and he wants to avoid saying whether VE or BH is scum. He follow this by promising more content and saying that it's because he is waiting for people to post. And yet as the game has grown more active Mr. Wiggles content contributions have shrunk. After Kita engages him in talk we eventually find out that he is suspicious of WoS and he joins the wagon. And disappears for the day. But then WoS claims cop and Wiggles has to move his vote, and comes in with a seemingly brilliant cases on Ace. except well, ->Ace wasn't here ->Neither were the majority of players ->The case relies on assuming excellent mafia play Here is the Case Wiggles starts by presenting Ace's hello post as a promise to contribute and then criticizes him for failing to meet that promise. He calls Ace's very sensible lynch on VE* scummy. Then goes on to speculate that the mirror is the mafia mason. However, BH was the mafia mason, and by creating and reinforcing the idea that the mirror is a mafia mason he promotes the idea that his team mate Wade Fell is town. + Show Spoiler [*] + Which is perfectly in line with Ace's meta Wiggles to his credit places a low emphasis on the meta scetion and spoilers it, but in it he compares Ace's play in a game that he had clearly been following and reading to this game, which he was clearly catching up on. How are we to expect Ace to be confident from the get go when he doesn't know what's going on? He also repeatedly tells us that Ace is an excellent mafia player and uses that to play on the fears and confusion in the thread. But as games have proven time and time again if you have to assume that mafia are playing near-perfect you are assuming too much. In short Mr. Wiggle's day 1 and day 2 show a mafia mindset, he promises content but avoids delivering on it and his case is misleading opportunistic and promoted mafia's agenda. ##Vote Mr.Wiggles | ||
layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
March 23 2013 02:17 GMT
#2543
On March 21 2013 01:47 Ace wrote: Who CARES if he is a Vet? He just posted logs of him joining a 3rd party and even said fuck the Town. This isn't hard. On March 21 2013 01:52 Ace wrote: Stop talking about other people and stay focused on one person at a time. Jesus I don't want to have to teach people how to play my first game back in months. Just dealwith VE now. Re-read the log: He accepted to join a 3rd party that clearly doesn't have interest in helping the Town. Whether VE is still Townis irrelevant: whatever powers he gets or grants to the 3rd party isn't going to help us. Lynch him now. Treat him like a self aware Miller and just solve the problem immediately. On March 21 2013 02:02 Ace wrote: We aren't going to stop scumhunting: that would be dumb. But leaving a claimed 3rd party player alive, when it empowers a player we have no idea about is just as dumb. I don't see how this is a difficult concept to understand. I guess you guys think leaving claimed Serial Killers alive is a good idea as long as they help the town. lulz. | ||
layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
March 23 2013 02:41 GMT
#2544
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
March 23 2013 02:42 GMT
#2545
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
March 23 2013 17:11 GMT
#2558
On March 24 2013 01:42 ThePeashooter wrote: Hey LayAbout, Show nested quote + On March 18 2013 02:23 layabout wrote: On March 18 2013 02:19 Coagulation wrote: I may not be on VEs little circle jerk squad but i can still sheep them. im gonna vote ThePeashooter. did anyone ever figure anything out about the yamato slip? was it actually a scum slip? and whats with greymist defending sandroba so hard. vivax thinks TPS is yamato and started calling him yamato. So either they are both scum, masons or vivax did something "silly". Why did you know there were masons before anyone else did? Hey LayAbout, Show nested quote + On March 20 2013 01:44 layabout wrote: On March 20 2013 01:36 Vivax wrote: Like, I don't know how you people (layabout, TPS) all assume it makes everyone masoned scum, do you guys have no fantasy or are you just trying to put the slip into favourable light. Replacing the TPS and glurio reads with layabout and Wade now, TPS is being tunneled by wade and GK so unlikely scum imo. Zarepath, GK, cosmicomics, Wade, layabout scum probably. Layabout you said you liked my case against Zarepath earlier yet you are doing absolutely nothing to hunt scum currently, you're just defending BH, zarepath is here and you don't try to figure out if he scum? On March 19 2013 02:54 layabout wrote: On March 19 2013 02:50 zarepath wrote: Are you Yamato or what? The longer you don't respond to this scumslip narrative the more you're allowing us to mislynch Vivax should he be town. Are you serious? This was dealt with forever ago. Since then Keir flipped and DarthPunk made the point that we were probably on the wrong track. Keir thought zare was town and i am willing to give hm the benefit of the doubt. It's also worth realising that mason roles ARE ptobably balanced between town and mafia but maybe with more on town's side, since grey is probably not the only town mason since he could only mason 1 person then kill them. I am not defending BH, your push on him based on qt's (unlike most of what you have done so far) was borderline retarded. Can't say much more. Why do you seem to know more about the set up than other people in the game? If Vivax had slipped he must have had out of thread communication. Hence scum or masons. That was what was being suggested. Your second point was with regards to my continuation of keirathi's speculation based on GM's flip and BH's claim. I can't remember who you are but since you did that to my name i have a feeling i don't like you. | ||
layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
March 23 2013 17:15 GMT
#2559
On March 24 2013 02:10 cosmicomics wrote: Alright I did some homework on RyuSuzaku. This is his initial response to GreYMisT flipping town. Show nested quote + On March 19 2013 05:34 RyuSuzaku wrote: well, that sucks. I was pretty convinced GM was scum given how suspicious he was acting. Pretty disappointing play from him, especially given his incredibly strong role. Obviously I was wrong, but I'm town and I had completely valid reasons for attacking GM. Read pages 36~41 for context and the general types of responses people had to the flip. RyuSuzaku responds in a vastly different way. He goes out of his way to defend himself, even though there was no pressure on him for being wrong. Whether he had "valid reasons" or not doesn't matter, it's his attitude in this post that is out of place. Notice the focus he brings upon himself - "I was convinced ... I was wrong ... I'm town ... I had valid reasons". And the context indicates no pressure at all. Which suggests that this post betrays a mentality of inherent guilt. In the same exact post we see him addressing DoYouHas' and VisceraEyes' suspicions. Show nested quote + On March 19 2013 05:34 RyuSuzaku wrote: (referring to DoYouHas) Sadly I can't tell whether you are saying these things as a scum trying to push responsibility for a mislynch, or as a townie who is just bad. (referring to VisceraEyes) Why are you cherry picking me? Are you scum? Again, a very defensive posture, where he wants to call them scum without actually bringing forth an accusation. I mean, what kind of response do you expect when asking "Are you scum?" It's rhetorical in nature. There is a pretty good dialogue between him and VisceraEyes when he actually follows up (read page 41). That's all I got so far since much of what I suspect depends on how he posts today, especially concerning what his new stance on VisceraEyes is, but we can start by talking about this. Since everyone seems so busy maybe ryu is a better target for tomorrow. | ||
layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
March 23 2013 17:52 GMT
#2564
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
March 23 2013 17:53 GMT
#2566
+ Show Spoiler [Feck sake] + TranceStorm: He is a non-entity on day1. He says that meta arguement don't work on day1 and throws his voteon DoYouHas. It's a complete throwaway vote and even when he pops back in to express his support of a zarepath lynch, he makes no attempt to consolidate. His explanation for his support is "other peoples arguments". He also makes a big deal of the alleged Vivax slip which was for the most part a waste of time. None of this play feels townie. He start night 1 by drawingsaying that wiggles is his scumread. He also has the scum perspective on the brain: + Show Spoiler + On March 21 2013 10:11 TranceStorm wrote: Show nested quote + On March 21 2013 09:54 Vivax wrote: + Show Spoiler + On March 21 2013 09:48 TranceStorm wrote: Show nested quote + On March 21 2013 09:41 Vivax wrote: It's so easy to find people scummy who contribute when there are guys playing so obviously anti-town or trolling or invisible that you don't want to lynch them. "The vigs will settle it" is not a valid attitude. Imagine if you have a whole bunch of such guys but not a vig for each one of them, which will likely be the case in most games. It doesn't look like we have vigs anyway,so it's in our hands. Let's teach this kind of people how to play the game plz Unvote Vote: Coagulation This is actually exactly what I was referring to earlier. You avoid the major candidates of the day and make a case against someone who you know won't be lynched! There's literally no pressure on Coagulation, so why bother voting for him? This entire game you have been pushing unlikely lynch candidates and I am becoming more and more suspicious -> it seems to me like you are trying to appear as if you are contributing to the discussion. It's much easier for scum to look like they're contributing when they make cases on players most of the thread believes to be scum, since others will find it easier to agree with their cases and hence see them positively. And if scum gets attacked while doing so, the attackers will look like they are attacking the lynch wagon as well, which will attract a lot of attention. You are putting things backwards here. I am contributing to people that most of the thread doesn't seem to care about, and that's what you need usually instead of a blob of collective confirmation bias on single players. Let's think of the game from a scum perspective. Scum want to remain 'under the radar' throughout the game. Therefore, you're presumption is incorrect because even though "others will find it easier to agree with their cases and hence see them positively" on the day of the lynch, being on the mislynch train is incredibly suspicious the following day. Hence, one approach that a mafia player could take is to make lots of cases against a couple of relatively scummy players who don't have much pressure on them and to avoid getting involved in lynches entirely by parking their votes on people who definitely won't get lynched. I'm reasonably certain that you are following this approach. He also makes repeated references to "staying under the radar" and "blending in" as how scum intend to play, which is an accurate description for his play. If he is consistently looking at the game from a mafia's perspective it's probably because he is mafia. In some circumstances town will think about what mafia will be doing but the town approach to the game does not start with trying to second guess how mafia will play. Wiggles shows up and Trance's top scumread has suddenly vanished and he sheeps onto the Ace wagon. I will be busy for many hours now. | ||
layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
March 24 2013 01:21 GMT
#2583
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
March 26 2013 18:39 GMT
#2713
I'm disappointed with the wiggles flip and surprised by the nightkills. It would have been dumb for us to keep VE around and killing him has pretty much confirmed that the mirror exists. It's strange that mafia wanted to tell us this rather than take more predictable shots. Between the mirror being mafia and 3p i would say that 3rd makes a LOT more sense. We are therefore looking at a 4-1-8 at best since If the mirror has recruited anybody we might not have control of the vote and with 2 KP this could very well be lylo. Why are these players still alive? Testsubject893 ThePeaShooter WaveOfShadow I might not be one to talk but with this level of activity and those spread out votes we don't stand a chance. | ||
layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
March 26 2013 18:58 GMT
#2719
Think about how you treat cop claim for instance, if there is only 1 chances are they are town, if there are 2, 1 is probably scum. Greymist was like a half mason so i thought we would probably have no other mason, another mason or a half mason on our side. If there were any more then that then since mason is a powerful role they would very likely be balanced between town and scum. This is why i wanted mason claims. When just BH had claimed we were better off leaving him. When we had evidence of 3 masons we then had enough information to deal with the claim rather than leave it alone. But then VE posted logs in which he said screw town i will join you Mr. Not-town and that was more important to deal with. | ||
layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
March 26 2013 19:00 GMT
#2720
Kitaman27 are you being intentionally dumb? | ||
layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
March 26 2013 19:21 GMT
#2724
On March 27 2013 04:17 geript wrote: Wait now Zare switches sides? WTF is going on. Is this supposed to be insane day where everyone goes nuts? Get your shit together people. First off, @Laya, Kita is right and it read to me like "why haven't we lynched these guys" list. As far as confirmed townie status, WoS is far far from that. No one has explained why a roleblock would go to Keirathi or why scum JOAT would RB WoS instead of just kill him. His claim is tenuous at best. Second @Kita I covered why burying a RB on Keirathi is mostly insane. No reason IMO to bury one on Keirathi over VE. Why is TestSubject the only other person to bring this up? @Zare layabout was leading the lynch with a whole 2 votes, why switch sides? Right now my lynch preference is WoS, Cosmic, Laya but I really need to look into filters again. It began with the guy who claimed a scum kill with 4 shots that night that was not counter-claimed and was follow by a cop claim and a green check from said cop claim. plus mafia almost always have a RB that's why cops-don't claim unless they are on the chopping block and why some will stay silent in that position to avoid pointless wifom like you are indulging in | ||
layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
March 27 2013 01:28 GMT
#2739
It's important because with such a role we could be dealing with half of the votes not in the hands of town and We need to vote together. The point about the word "beaucracy" points as much to one of the smurfs TPS cosmic and Ryu as it does to me. What are you even trying to say about "wifom lists". I mentioned them because i was surprised they were still alive. Is DP scummy for coming in saying that the nightkills are weird and that he is surprised Kita and WoS are still alive? Apparently i am. Wait apparently you also think that and it's not a scumtell but actually it is a scumtell because ______? | ||
layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
March 27 2013 01:45 GMT
#2740
Cosmic makes the point that Kitaman has been misdirecting us. After re-reading it turns out that Kitaman27 is the one who raised a bunch of suspicion and posting around Vivax by tring to make an issue out of a scumslip that we should have just ignored. On March 18 2013 00:06 kitaman27 wrote: Show nested quote + On March 17 2013 13:21 Vivax wrote: Yamato i think coagulation is not a good choice for d1 for reasons wf pointed out ...is this a scum slip? As far as I know, ThePeashooter's identity as Yamato is not public knowledge. Was it revealed at any point in the thread? Wiggles dying words were to warn us about kitaman27 and we should not dismiss them out of hand. | ||
layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
March 27 2013 01:58 GMT
#2741
Open your eyes. Kitaman27 is scum! ##voteKitaman27 | ||
layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
March 27 2013 02:08 GMT
#2742
On March 27 2013 03:39 layabout wrote: I am back am from the looks of it i am one of the few. I'm disappointed with the wiggles flip and surprised by the nightkills. It would have been dumb for us to keep VE around and killing him has pretty much confirmed that the mirror exists. It's strange that mafia wanted to tell us this rather than take more predictable shots. Between the mirror being mafia and 3p i would say that 3rd makes a LOT more sense. We are therefore looking at a 4-1-8 at best since If the mirror has recruited anybody we might not have control of the vote and with 2 KP this could very well be lylo. Why are these players still alive? Testsubject893 ThePeaShooter WaveOfShadow I might not be one to talk but with this level of activity and those spread out votes we don't stand a chance. From this post the link between nightkills and why didn't these players die should be apparent. But instead of realizing this or asking for clarification kita jumps at the chance to spread more confusion and presents it as my "top 3 scumreads" and calls me a troll. +the "scumslip" is BS | ||
layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
March 27 2013 02:23 GMT
#2744
On March 27 2013 11:12 kitaman27 wrote: Show nested quote + On March 27 2013 10:45 layabout wrote: Cosmic makes the point that Kitaman has been misdirecting us. After re-reading it turns out that Kitaman27 is the one who raised a bunch of suspicion and posting around Vivax by tring to make an issue out of a scumslip that we should have just ignored. lol that occurred in the opening hours of the game and was dropped moments later. Is this honestly the best you can come up with? Show nested quote + On March 27 2013 10:45 layabout wrote: Wiggles dying words were to warn us about kitaman27 and we should not dismiss them out of hand. Wiggles also had a cosmic scum read, but clearly that doesn't fit your case. How about explain things yourself, rather than hide behind a dead man. Show nested quote + On March 27 2013 10:58 layabout wrote: Kitaman27 also straight up lies about my meta when he calls me scum. Again he is misdirecting the thread. he describes my play in those games as taking a back seat In storm mafia i was the second on the day1 redff lynch and the first serious vote on it, i also wrote a case on VE the serial killer and pushed him hard. In holy romanholy roman i spent a good while reading the 100+ pages having replaced in and then dealt with around 1 lynch before i was dt checked and spent my time spamming the thread and pushing each living player in one day. Open your eyes. Kitaman27 is scum! ##voteKitaman27 I'm not lying. You were the second person on redff, then you proceed to not post in the entire thread the remainder of the cycle. Sure you pushed VE for like six days or whatever, but you clearly didn't put in enough effort to get him lynched considering he survived until endgame. bugs was calling the shots that game and it was pretty clear. We're not disagreeing about Holy Roman so I don't see how I could possibly be lying. I think the most telling thing is how unwilling layabout is to go after cosmic. Voting cosmic would be his only possible chance at survival, yet he decides to go after me instead. I find it extremely likely that we've found a pair of scum buddies. The vivax slip took up a lot of discussion, even into day2. VE was the first person on redff and spent the day jumping all over the place, i was the one who suggested that our whole team went onto redFF and i was started the wagon WBG took a more active role but the main reason VE stayed alive was that we decided to push other players d2 and d3 and went all-in to save RoL d4 at which point we could not get anybody lynched, we also trad to shoot VE instead. I didn't take a backseat in Holy Roman besides, it was a very unusual game that wasn't representative of many players normal play yet you are using it to represent my "meta" falsely. | ||
layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
March 27 2013 02:42 GMT
#2746
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
March 27 2013 03:09 GMT
#2751
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
March 27 2013 03:37 GMT
#2753
On March 27 2013 12:09 layabout wrote: DarthPunk do you mind telling me where you stand, it's getting quite late? Whether you have been busy or not you have provided nothing relevant since day2 and much of your posting on day2 was insubstantial. For all your early aggression you have simply sheeped onto wagons with little effort or evidence of thought. In the only analysissy type post of yours since day 2 + Show Spoiler + On March 25 2013 14:15 DarthPunk wrote: Hi I've been reading the thread but to be honest I am pretty disheartened with the whole situation. For what it's worth I have a solid town read on Wave of shadow. Somethings I didn't;t like recently. Show nested quote + On March 25 2013 03:05 VisceraEyes wrote: Hi guys I'm back. Reading now gerpit: it had flavor - but it was implicit that I took a hit. This is the second time Viscera Eyes has said something similar to this and just disappeared afterwards. These false promises of activity are really scummy. VE was a really really solid scum read of mine until his claim. I think it would have been retarded to fake claim by holding back KP day one. But not impossible. He is a question that needs to be solved. But honestly I am too worried about mislynching to take a risk on VE. Maybe he is the best choice. IDK. The other thing I didn;t like was this. Show nested quote + On March 24 2013 21:12 zarepath wrote: I know I was voting for cosmicomics, but after reading Wiggles' filter I'd thought he wouldn't be that bad of a lynch, either. Honestly, that guy needs to flip soon. It seems as though nobody is really willing to talk about him. Does anybody have a town read on him, and why? Show nested quote + On March 24 2013 22:03 glurio wrote: Well didn't think that would happen. Can we lynch cosmicomics now please? These kind of posts are super weird after we mislynched again. When I mislynch three times in a row my confidence is shot. I double and triple think every read because I am worried about mis-lynching again. So when people come straight out after a mislynch like that fearlessly wanting to lynch into lynch bait. It worries me immensely. You call VE scummy after who had stated he could not be scum in your opinion. Why would you call a player scummy if you don't think that player could be scum? I makes no sense if your town. But if your mafia it benefits you to cast doubt whenever you can. Oh and your vote on me was horsemanure i only ignored you because i didn't want to introduce another candidate. It seems a Kitaman lynch is off the cards and cosmic isn't mafia. Lynching a survivor does nothing to reduce mafia KP and it will let them get more shots off. ##vote DarthPunk | ||
layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
March 27 2013 03:56 GMT
#2761
cough ken cough At least Ryu is here to tell us that he doesn't want to lynch mafia. | ||
layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
March 27 2013 04:17 GMT
#2776
I win with cosmic but my blood runs green. I remember reading that there is 4 mafia right? 13 alive T M 3p 8 4 1 with 6 town and 4 scum with 2 KP assuming KP X/2 rounded down gives we lynch scum everyday gives: 8 4 1 d4 8 4 n4 6 4 d5 lylo* 6 3 n5 5 3 d6 lylo 5 2 n6 4 2 d7 mylo 4 1 n7 3 1 d8 mylo with KP as X/2 rounded up 8 4 1 d4 8 4 n4 6 4 d5 lylo 6 3 n5 4 3 d6 lylo 4 2 n6 3 2 d7 lylo 3 1 n7 2 1 d8 lylo *lylo is lynch scum or lose mylo is mislynch and lose if individual scum have the kp then these situation could be drastically worse or a little better If cosmic lives then there is a BP vest around and we have two more players that aren't mafia. | ||
layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
March 27 2013 04:25 GMT
#2781
On March 27 2013 13:21 WaveofShadow wrote: Well fuck I wrote up a post and it got deleted. Essentially what layabout just said though was what I was getting at. I find the claim fairly believable actually since I don't see scum getting two mason roles while we only get one. Layabout does your role have a name as well? And as far as a kita lynch goes, it doesn't feel good to me at all...I gotta look into this. I began a fool i became a reflection if my dreams are shattered i may become a loser and a fool again. | ||
layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
March 27 2013 04:42 GMT
#2796
On March 27 2013 13:33 WaveofShadow wrote: So a Dreamer? Can you confirm that you die if cosmic does, because that's not what your last post makes it seem like. Reading through kita's filter I've noticed that aside from myself, glurio and the recent business with cosmic, every single case that kita has made has been against townies, and very early on as well. Now considering how misdirected we have all been this game I'm not sure if that means anything, especially since I have sheeped onto all of the mislynches eventually as well (except Wriggles, I claim partial responsibility for that as I wanted him dead for ages), but I wasn't the one creating the cases.... There's still time. This is going to be a really hard one for me because I have had a huge townread on kita ever since his case on me, and I've had a townread on DP for much of the game as well. Also interesting you've mentioned BH's effect on the game, DP, because I don't think we're done looking into that..... Name is Mirror Image, i got it d2 before that i was The Fool I don't think i can tell you what happens if cosmic dies. I will lose though. must sleep | ||
layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
March 27 2013 04:44 GMT
#2800
TPS is probaly the ___father. | ||
layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
March 27 2013 04:55 GMT
#2812
On March 27 2013 13:48 RyuSuzaku wrote: I AM PUSHING A PRO-MAFIA AGENDA PLEASE DONT THINK CRITICALLY On March 27 2013 13:49 WaveofShadow wrote: Show nested quote + On March 27 2013 13:44 layabout wrote: TPS uses his greencheck to help mafia win. TPS is probaly the ___father. This is scummy as hell layabout. I've been saying shit like this all game but at the same time saying I still have to assume he's green for now. You bring this up right as all the chaos is going down regarding your 3rd party wincons and late-day lynch targeting? The only reason I could think to bring up another possible lynch target right now is to misdirect. This does make it seem like you're trying to cause chaos. Thank you for answering my questions though. ? voting for me is voting for not-mafia and let's cosmic the not-mafia die and benefits mafia by giving them lylos and mylos until the end changing my vote Give me a mafia lynch to wake up to. ##vote Kitaman27 | ||
layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
March 29 2013 02:29 GMT
#2923
We need to lynch mafia every day but at least they were out in full frce yesterday. Today we lynch Kitaman27 or Ryusuzaku. Tomorrow we lynch the other one. | ||
layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
March 29 2013 02:31 GMT
#2924
I don't see ryu being town after his interaction with DP i can go into more detail when i have the time. | ||
layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
March 30 2013 02:47 GMT
#3011
On March 29 2013 15:54 ThePeashooter wrote: Hey LayAbout, what day were you converted? As i already said, i was converted on day. I was masoned during day1 and at the start of day2 the qt died and i got converted. Guys if we do not consolidate then WE WILL LOSE Toadya we should be lynching kitaman27. Why is that you may ask? Well if you were reading the the thread you would not need to ask this. Case UNO: Mr. Wiggles dying words: + Show Spoiler + On March 24 2013 02:44 Mr. Wiggles wrote: People to really watch out for: Kitaman: Kita's play has actually been pretty passive. He's made cases, but has never really pushed them that much. Day 1, he was going after GoodKarma, couldn't get traction, and just sort of went, "Oh well, I'll vote for GreY then I guess", with only a line of explanation that doesn't even say he's scummy. The same thing happened on Day 2, where he made a case on WaveofShadow, but it was deflected by him claiming DT. So, he just votes for me, but doesn't really make too big of a push and only had a couple posts where he doesn't even strongly call me scum: Show nested quote + On March 21 2013 09:02 kitaman27 wrote: I'd support Wiggles or GK as an alternative, but I don't have the couple hours I'd need to put a case together and push a lynch at the moment. Show nested quote + On March 21 2013 09:32 kitaman27 wrote: As for today's lynch, Wiggles needs to get in here and tell us who he is voting for. He obviously shouldn't still be voting you, based on the reasons I just mentioned. I want to hear who he wants to lynch. I'd be willing to vote for him if we have the votes. Show nested quote + On March 21 2013 09:34 kitaman27 wrote: I also didn't like how Wiggles responded to my case about Wave. Rather than pushing the idea himself, he asked for my confirmation to elaborate for him. Show nested quote + On March 21 2013 11:14 kitaman27 wrote: I'm swapping my vote to him since he doesn't seem to care at all about what happens tonight. He uses very neutral language, saying he'd support the lynch, and that he'd be willing to vote if there's enough votes. He says he didn't like one thing I did, and then finally votes me not because he says he thinks I'm scum, but because I'm not around. For someone he wants to kill, and who he voted for, he does a good job of not really explaining his read or of ever calling me scum. He did the same thing with the GreYMisT vote. He doesn't push his reads strongly, he doesn't call the people he switches to later scum, and he just votes on whatever the wagon is at the end of the day His passive play combined with the lack of thread interaction and seeming apathy towards the lynch leads me to believe he doesn't have town's best interests in mind, and is scum. Town should watch out for him, because his posts are nicely structured and he makes nice "cases" on people that he doesn't end up pushing. So, there will probably be people who'd oppose killing him based on the form of his posts rather than the content. I agree that I need to die. I am a liability in late game because I've been playing badly and my scum reads have been shit so far. I need to get shot though, not lynched, because a lynch on me is wasted as I have no probability of flipping scum. I thought someone might shoot me Night 2, but no one did. I don't like the way the Day has gone so far, because everyone is sitting on their hands and not talking because they think I'm scum. I find that pretty dumb, because you're basically giving mafia a free round of kills. If you're going to lynch me, leave your vote on me, but at least talk about who else you think is scum, because I am going to flip green. If you don't talk, you're completely wasting your time. I'm going to vote Cosmicomics because he is the only alternative wagon to me, and I read him as more likely to be scum than town. If I end up getting lynched, I apologize for my poor reads, and want to say, good luck, and have fun. Case two: Hold on cosmic was 3p how can we trust him? Well my skeptic read, cosmic may have wanted to save his own skin but that does not change the fact that he didn't know the scumteam and his case on kitaman carries considerable merit: + Show Spoiler + On March 26 2013 02:42 cosmicomics wrote: The kitaman27 case. kitaman27 is a seasoned mafia vet and is capable of playing very well as either alignment. You won't catch him with "scum slips" or anything blatant like that. You need to look at deeper motives and really look at context to see subtle mafia agenda actions. First is his big case on WaveofShadow D2. If you reread how D2 unfolded, you would have noticed that there was a reasonable amount of suspicion and attention on Wade Fell as he garnered several votes. You have to watch the timing. kitaman27's case comes in at a timing to shift the attention off the Wade Fell / VisceraEyes interaction entirely, by offering a new prospective lynch target, namely WaveofShadow. His follow up post addressing the Wade Fell / VisceraEyes reveals the mafia agenda. Show nested quote + On March 20 2013 09:09 kitaman27 wrote: It would be silly to lynch either of VE or BH this cycle. Both are claimed blues. Let the mafia deal with them. If the issue is still around in two or three cycles, than we address it, but not on day two where there are so many other things to look at. It's very subtle isn't it? He shifts attention away from the whole VisceraEyes / Wade Fell by "letting mafia deal with them". He implants the idea into town that it is very "silly" to look into these two suspects, and that the night actions will resolve the whole issue. The bolded part shows his intent to push the focus away. So many other things to look at? Why is the Wade Fell / VisceraEyes situation something not worth looking at / trying to figure out? Why does he work to take not only his attention, but the rest of town's away from the issue onto a new topic in WaveofShadow? This is mafia misdirection at it's finest. You don't have to come into the thread and take bold stances you will be accountable for later on. All you have to do is evade the issue entirely and get people to focus on something else. No one can hold you accountable. This is further supported in the way that he really works to drive this case home. + Show Spoiler + On March 20 2013 09:39 kitaman27 wrote: Show nested quote + On March 20 2013 09:19 Vivax wrote: Well I read it right now but frankly I developed the feeling he is town, I find others way scummier than him and WoS is a newbie so I understand him being defensive, dunno why he rides so much on not knowing how to metaread though. Being defensive is a newbie scum trait, so I don't think that really plays much of a part. This is his 5th or 6th game though, so he should be more than capable of pushing a case. In one of his early posts he mentions how he would rather not provide a scum read until he is prepared to develop a strong case. It's 100+ hours and 60ish pages into the game and he still hasn't done so. On March 20 2013 09:45 kitaman27 wrote: Show nested quote + On March 20 2013 09:41 WaveofShadow wrote: Oh and kita, cute case. I defy you to go through my meta and find something I've done differently this game than any of my others. I have never once lied in a mafia game thus far and have never been anything but town, including this game. Vivax already gave you one of my typical defenses; hell I'll even add to it to attempt to appease you. I write up a case against you and your response is that you've never lied? Where am I calling you a liar? My case is that you show no interest in pushing a lynch. Even with this post, you ask "who are the lynch targets"? A town player decides a lynch target and pushes it on other players. A mafia player looks at the bandwagons and selects his favorite. I don't need another player to defend you. I'd like a response from yourself on the issues I mentioned. On March 20 2013 09:48 kitaman27 wrote: Show nested quote + On March 20 2013 09:45 WaveofShadow wrote: I think I am comfortable enough to vote Wiggle right now though because he really just doesn't appear to give a shit. Vote: Mr. Wiggles This is exactly what I'm referring to. Just minutes earlier you posted about how you wanted to know who where the lynch candidates in order to determine who to look at. Now you're voting Wiggles with a one line explanation. You clearly couldn't have taken the time to read through the filters of the players you just asked about. So why is it that you are voting based on town sentiment, rather than finding a player that you believe is scum and explaining to everyone why you believe this is the case. On March 20 2013 10:06 kitaman27 wrote: Show nested quote + On March 20 2013 09:48 WaveofShadow wrote: I'd like to think I've at least attempted to justify my jumping on said bandwagons when I vote. I might have to call you a liar now. Your explanation on the DarthPunk vote was: Show nested quote + On March 18 2013 04:16 WaveofShadow wrote: I CAN, however get behind a vote on DP. I support VE's case though I do not necessarily support his town circle Your explanation on the GreYMisT vote was larger, but at that point you were preaching to the choir, as you were the 12th person on him. There was nobody to convince at that point. Show nested quote + On March 20 2013 09:45 WaveofShadow wrote: I think I am comfortable enough to vote Wiggle right now though because he really just doesn't appear to give a shit. Vote: Mr. Wiggles And here is your explanation of the wiggles vote, aided by a few other one liners about how he is lazy. Show nested quote + On March 20 2013 09:53 WaveofShadow wrote: I could of course go into more detail if you wish, but then you'd still just call that voting based on town sentiment. Of course I would like you to go into further detail. Calling yourself town doesn't convince other players that you are town. Posting a case and pushing a lynch is what does that. I spent 2 hours reading the thread and another hour on my case against you. You look like you've sent 3 minutes deciding who to jump on. On March 20 2013 10:16 kitaman27 wrote: Show nested quote + On March 20 2013 10:13 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Kita, what do you think of WoS' flip on his reads? He goes from being super-sure that Zarepath is scum and saying I'm his strongest town read, even baiting Zare into saying I'm scum to call him scum again, to wanting to lynch him as the day started, to agreeing with him, when all he did was reiterate the same stuff he said about me last night. So his read on him goes from scum -> town, and the last thing he's saying about him, is that something he did looks scummy. As for me, he's saying I'm town, and then that I'm scum, when all that happened is I made two posts at night, where I said I wasn't going to post reads, and was inactive for a while. His reads did a complete 180s, and the flips happened in line with what's popular at the time. Since I made it pretty clear what I thought about his alignment, I'd be much more interested listening to what you had to say, rather than justifying it for you. Do you have a mafia read on Wave? On March 20 2013 10:26 kitaman27 wrote: Show nested quote + On March 20 2013 10:21 WaveofShadow wrote: Lol. I have had to defend myself against accusations like this every single game I've been in. Guess what the outcome has been EVERY SINGLE GAME. How is your alignment in past games relevant at all? Look at how much effort he puts into getting everyone to focus on this lynch. Now, let's do a comparison case to the glurio case. Absolutely no follow up. No effort into convincing people, no effort to get opinions out of people, no effort to push the wagon. What's the difference? There isn't a pressing need to take attention off of a teammate like in the case of Wade Fell. There is only the need to maintain the image of scumhunting. Now, let's look further into his glurio read. If you read D2 carefully, you would notice that glurio posted a case on WaveofShadow maybe 3 hours earlier than kitaman27's case. Pull up the cases side by side and compare. What do you notice? They both use very similar bodies of evidence and similar reasoning. The only difference is that kitaman27's case has more paragraphs and quotes and formatting. But the essence is the same. Yet this is kitaman27's #2 scum read. Think about it. If someone makes a case using the same body of evidence and same type of reasoning before you present your own case, wouldn't that give you serious pause before thinking they are scum? Given how vehemently kitaman27 pushed the WaveofShadow case, it must mean that he felt that the case was really good, and that since only glurio picked up on it before anyone else, that glurio was thinking along the same lines. I.e. he was thinking like town. But nope. kitaman27 has glurio at #2 scum read. Not only that, but as glurio perceptively points out Show nested quote + On March 26 2013 02:02 glurio wrote: You still have a scum read on me even after i posted a case on CC, which is my #1 scumread at the moment, kita? I'd like to see how you plan to make that work. kitaman27 isn't thinking holistically about the game at all, despite telling everyone that that is exactly what he has been doing. kitaman27 has been subtly working behind the sense to further mafia agenda and his inconsistencies and timings betray himself. To close I would draw attention to Mr. Wiggles' posts where he notes kitaman27's passive play and apathy, which serves to further highlight how out of place his intense WaveofShadow wagon push is. Show nested quote + On March 24 2013 02:44 Mr. Wiggles wrote: People to really watch out for: Kitaman: Kita's play has actually been pretty passive. He's made cases, but has never really pushed them that much. Day 1, he was going after GoodKarma, couldn't get traction, and just sort of went, "Oh well, I'll vote for GreY then I guess", with only a line of explanation that doesn't even say he's scummy. The same thing happened on Day 2, where he made a case on WaveofShadow, but it was deflected by him claiming DT. So, he just votes for me, but doesn't really make too big of a push and only had a couple posts where he doesn't even strongly call me scum: On March 21 2013 09:02 kitaman27 wrote: I'd support Wiggles or GK as an alternative, but I don't have the couple hours I'd need to put a case together and push a lynch at the moment. On March 21 2013 09:32 kitaman27 wrote: As for today's lynch, Wiggles needs to get in here and tell us who he is voting for. He obviously shouldn't still be voting you, based on the reasons I just mentioned. I want to hear who he wants to lynch. I'd be willing to vote for him if we have the votes. On March 21 2013 09:34 kitaman27 wrote: I also didn't like how Wiggles responded to my case about Wave. Rather than pushing the idea himself, he asked for my confirmation to elaborate for him. On March 21 2013 11:14 kitaman27 wrote: I'm swapping my vote to him since he doesn't seem to care at all about what happens tonight. He uses very neutral language, saying he'd support the lynch, and that he'd be willing to vote if there's enough votes. He says he didn't like one thing I did, and then finally votes me not because he says he thinks I'm scum, but because I'm not around. For someone he wants to kill, and who he voted for, he does a good job of not really explaining his read or of ever calling me scum. He did the same thing with the GreYMisT vote. He doesn't push his reads strongly, he doesn't call the people he switches to later scum, and he just votes on whatever the wagon is at the end of the day His passive play combined with the lack of thread interaction and seeming apathy towards the lynch leads me to believe he doesn't have town's best interests in mind, and is scum. Town should watch out for him, because his posts are nicely structured and he makes nice "cases" on people that he doesn't end up pushing. So, there will probably be people who'd oppose killing him based on the form of his posts rather than the content. kitaman27 is the scum mastermind who has been manipulating town from behind the scenes. kitaman27 is the lynch for today. Vote: kitaman27 Yesterday kitaman27 was pushing for a cosmic lynch and pre-claim he may have been justified in doing so. However post-claim kitaman deliberately ignores the consequences of the claim, which there was plenty of evidence to support and very few reasons to doubt. Yesterday mafia benefitted the most from the lynch and kitman27 was aware of this but chose to push their agenda. Why? Well he is mafia ##vote kitaman27 | ||
layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
March 30 2013 03:36 GMT
#3020
As far as the final two go It could realistically be any from: kenpachi glurio doyouhas I was hoping kenpachi would get vigged. kenpachi has done nothing to make me think he is town and has been voting with very little supporting arguments then afking a lot which is something scum would be more inclined to do. If you are asking about yourself geript and glurio i would say that: I am unsure about you DYH. You were carrying out independent analysis early on but your play yesterday furthered mafia objectives not town ones. I feel like glurio could be scum but since glurio wants to lynch kita and ryu who i am confident about i am hesitant to lynch him .I labelled geript towny early on and haven't had reason to change that label. | ||
layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
March 30 2013 05:28 GMT
#3027
night | ||
layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
March 30 2013 14:35 GMT
#3135
I will write up some thoughts later but seriously, that made no sense. | ||
layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
March 30 2013 14:55 GMT
#3136
| ||
layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
March 31 2013 01:30 GMT
#3168
On March 31 2013 09:21 cosmicomics wrote: Show nested quote + On March 31 2013 09:16 Blazinghand wrote: On March 31 2013 09:13 cosmicomics wrote: On March 30 2013 18:02 RyuSuzaku wrote: On March 30 2013 18:00 Ace wrote: I was asleep. But seriously I didn't even have a ton of time and I thought I made well reasoned posts, trying to keep everyone focused on 1 thing at a time. Somehow I got blamed for "telling everyone to stop scumhunting" and got lynched. Sigh v_v that's why I smurfed (not enough time to keep up my posting standard). if I was on my normal acc I would've definitely played a different game. Well, if I was forced to not smurf I probably wouldn't have played, but w/e. + Show Spoiler + also note that I mean I felt like I could've posted satisfactorily, but it would have been less than normal, i.e. I would take a lot of flak from people for not posting enough to my meta Same exact reason I smurfed. Like, I want to play mafia, but I'll have an incredibly tough time playing since I don't have the same type of time available. Can someone explain the layabout's mirror restriction? I assumed if I ever recruited mafia, their win con would change and they would just work to bus all the members, as it is the fastest, easiest way to victory. Layabout, what did your conversion PM say? From what I can tell Layabout became completely 3p-aligned. He just got totally suckered when Kita lied and said he too was converted. Why didn't he just proceed to bus every member and be heralded as best town player of all time? e: as soon as day 2? I wanted to bus initially but playing as mafia is so much fun and if had gone after them for no reason i think they could have shot me and when i flipped they would know cosmic had converted me and that he wasn't town, so i would be stuck with his wincon and they would kill him. Well i still have the logs with Kitaman but i don't think i told him much mafia didn't already have access to. Once cosmic started to become a target i decided to share with them that i had been converted since i was supposed to keep him alive and he was the perfect person for us to push. When VE was outed as the mirror, they had the chatlogs with cosmic and i think i had mentioned his role being the mirror (can't check the qt since the "all messages" has disappeared). If i didn't want to play with and help the mafia i wouldn't have told kita anything after he couldn't give me the right rolename. Maybe i just wanted someone to talk to, maybe my sleep schedule has addled my brain. I dislike only having the qt and some irc to communicate with your team. For the most part irc was dead and got worse once BH left and the only interaction i had with WBG was him avoiding talking about the game or giving unhelpful criticism/bashing. We also weren't allowed to communicate outside of the qt without hosts permission, irc was fine as long as logs were sent but whilst playing kitaman repeatedly referred to conversations and decisions that were not in the qt that i was not a part of. We were not very well organised and there was nothing more frustrating than deciding what night actions to take only to wake up and discover that you might as well have said nothing because while you were asleep something went wrong. I am not going to sign-up to any more games with awkward deadlines. night one i left with the impression that ve and wiggles would die and either vivax or VE would get blocked, i wanted to rb VE but ryu and kita thought he was blue so should be blocked. In the end BH sent in the wrong PM and they rb and shot keir and shot VE but they had intended to rb and shoot VE and shoot sciberbia. night two the night kills went as planned and it was nice. night three i left with impression that Testsubject and TPS would die. yet VE and cogulation ended up dead. night 4 we decided to shoot TPS and Tesubject. DarthPunk and Testsubject were shot. -_- logs: + Show Spoiler + [23:14] == playa [02db242b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.2.219.36.43] has joined #MLPfanclub [23:14] <playa> sup [23:14] <playa> kita666 [23:14] <Kita666> hey [23:15] <Kita666> lol so don't tell anyone, but I'm your cult buddy. I was recruited this cycle ^_^ [23:15] <playa> it's so cool being in a cult [23:16] <playa> not like those stupid outsiders say [23:16] <Kita666> i know, right [23:16] <playa> they don't understand us [23:16] <Kita666> have some kool aid [23:16] == Blazinghand has changed nick to | [23:16] == | has changed nick to Blazinghand [23:16] <Kita666> :p [23:16] <Kita666> good thing this dead noob can't report back to the others [23:17] <playa> | [23:17] <playa> hehe [23:17] <playa> so we play for mafia win? [23:17] <Kita666> what are you thinking? [23:17] <Kita666> not sure what would be the easiest [23:17] <playa> originally i wanted to backstab all of you [23:18] <playa> but that was just cus of the noight actions [23:18] <Kita666> lol [23:18] <playa> if ryu and geript die we could surrender and win [23:18] <playa> but i don't want it to go that way [23:18] <playa> i want to win as mafia [23:18] <playa> cus this game demands it [23:18] <Kita666> hehe [23:19] <playa> nobody on town derserves the win [23:19] <playa> they are jumping over each other to stop playing [23:19] <Kita666> can't compalin about that :p [23:19] <playa> ironically the towniest thing trance has done is try to get replaced out [23:19] <Kita666> haha [23:19] <playa> not sure why thats ironic but i said it [23:19] <Kita666> it must be true then [23:20] <playa> thing that confuses me [23:20] <playa> is how you could be converted [23:20] <playa> i need some sort of questioning emotican [23:20] <Kita666> hmm? [23:20] <playa> well i thought i was masoning [23:20] <playa> then i got a pm saying i was converted [23:21] <playa> what happened to you? [23:21] <Kita666> I got my mason pm, we chatted for an hour, I told him I knew who he was and then I was converted [23:21] <Kita666> XD [23:23] <playa> whgat is your role name? [23:23] <playa> what* [23:23] <Kita666> Devil [23:23] <playa> i gots to be paranoid man [23:23] <Kita666> paranoid? [23:23] <playa> and what is your new role name [23:24] <playa> as in not trusting you, you filthy mafioso [23:24] <Kita666> I was told I remain a fool since my godfather power covers things [23:24] <playa> but when you got converted did you get a new name? [23:24] <Kita666> no, DrH told me I would have, but that would conflict with my devil role [23:25] <Kita666> so I'm still a fool [23:25] <playa> weird [23:25] <playa> very weird.... [23:25] <Kita666> guess it makes me so i can't return third party to dt checks [23:25] <Kita666> can't complain [23:26] <Kita666> we need to convince the other guys not to waste a shot on VE [23:27] <playa> i kept my minotaur powers but got a new name [23:27] <playa> why? [23:27] <playa> pretty sure he wasn't converted [23:28] <Kita666> not according to cosmic :p [23:28] <playa> ahh [23:28] <Kita666> he is just as clueless as us why he claimed tho [23:28] <Kita666> Ve is hard to understand [23:28] <playa> that would explain why he is so willing to die [23:28] <Kita666> true [23:28] <playa> i wonder if he figured out i was masoned to cosmic [23:29] <Kita666> maybe cosmic mentioned it to him [23:29] <Kita666> would make sense why he isnt pushing you [23:29] <playa> i think was a bit too obviuos [23:29] <playa> since i was going to push him over bh [23:29] <playa> well it looks like we are secure in a wiggles lynch [23:29] <Kita666> ya hopefully [23:30] <playa> VE is a bad player for town to have at endgame that alone should be enough of a reason for him to live [23:30] <Kita666> true [23:30] <Kita666> I forget what DrH said happens to us if cosmic gets lynched and don't have access to tl to check the pm [23:30] <playa> We can argue that the green check on TPS makes him the most threatening [23:30] <Kita666> stupid work filter [23:31] <playa> also we don't know if VE was protected and if we don't shoot WoS we need the roleblock for him [23:31] <playa> it's possible VE still has his life [23:31] <Kita666> maybe [23:32] <playa> whether he does or not doesn't matter, it's a risk we don't need to take with a dead medic [23:32] <Kita666> do you remember if we're removed from the game when cosmic dies? [23:32] <playa> what else did you tell cosmic if anything? [23:32] <playa> haven't been told havent asked [23:33] <playa> because it's not going top happen [23:33] <playa> *to [23:33] <Kita666> ah, mind sending drh a pm just in case? I'd do it, but I'm at work [23:33] <playa> i would rather it stay a surprise [23:33] <Kita666> lol I don't like surprises [23:34] <Kita666> need to know if i need to sacrifice myself [23:34] <Kita666> or not [23:34] <Kita666> to save him if the time comes [23:34] <playa> it's a surprise that happens if we have lost [23:34] <Kita666> cosmic mentioned he was looking at ryu or kenpachi next since they were under the radar [23:34] <playa> already [23:35] <playa> hmm [23:35] <playa> to recruit or push? [23:35] <Kita666> recruit [23:35] <playa> if it's ryu [23:35] <playa> i think we can just backstab geript [23:35] <playa> and that would be okay [23:35] <playa> i would feel bad though [23:35] <Kita666> lol [23:36] <playa> thing is [23:36] <playa> if he knows the scumteam [23:36] <playa> he can still win if we die [23:36] <Kita666> true, that's the dangerous part about him [23:36] <Kita666> if he sides with town [23:36] <playa> the other dangerous side [23:37] <playa> is how scummy he looks [23:37] <Kita666> lol -_- [23:38] <Kita666> I wonder what happens in a scenario where its like 2 mafia, 2 third party mafia, 1 third party mirror, and 4 town [23:38] <playa> then it's not endgame [23:38] <Kita666> ya, but we would have control of the lynch [23:38] <Kita666> if he sides with mafia [23:39] <Kita666> hmm [23:39] <playa> which he should since he will win [23:39] <Kita666> this mechanic doesn't make sense if we just decide to backstab the mafia team [23:39] <Kita666> how would we possibly lose? [23:40] <playa> i think we aren't allowed to out our team mates since it would break the game? [23:40] <playa> it's basically like posting a pm or role list [23:40] <Kita666> ya, but we're still allowed to push them for lynches [23:40] <Kita666> and its not like ryu or greipt would be able to shoot us for it [23:40] <playa> kita do you want to know something funny? [23:41] <Kita666> whats that? [23:41] <playa> i have been masoned to town once [23:41] <playa> in about 5 masons [23:41] <Kita666> lol [23:41] <playa> next person to mason me i am gonna push like fuck [23:41] <Kita666> The only mason I can remember is when we got married <3 [23:42] <playa> opposite scumteams [23:42] <Kita666> lol [23:42] <playa> we won that game somehow [23:42] <playa> it was the one where i got caught and called every person in thread mafia [23:42] <playa> with the aid of pictures [23:42] <Kita666> that game was so broken with the way the roles were passed on [23:42] <Kita666> no idea how town lost [23:43] <playa> drazerk was in a pm circle with acro and hassy who had the big powers [23:43] <playa> and they sat back an let him win [23:43] <playa> cus they stopped caring [23:43] <Kita666> lol [23:46] <Kita666> hmm [23:46] <Kita666> how many mislynches do we need until third party + mafia control the lynch? [23:46] <playa> wait [23:46] <playa> If you are green or blue your win condition is to remove all threats to the town, the same as it always is. If you are red your goal is to equal/outnumber the town, the same as it always is. I did not include specific win conditions in the role pms. Sorry for the confusion. [23:47] <playa> do we count as mafia or 3rd party? [23:47] <playa> i know we count towards mafia KP [23:48] <Kita666> hmm [23:48] <Kita666> oh [23:48] <Kita666> i have an pretty funny though [23:48] <Kita666> *thought [23:49] <Kita666> what would happen if cosmic recruited ryu tomorrow, then ryu told him to recruit greipt [23:49] <Kita666> then we all claim mafia [23:49] <Kita666> XD [23:50] <playa> evryone can WIN [23:50] <playa> FUCK IT [23:50] <playa> THIS NEEDS TO HAPPEN [23:50] <Kita666> haha [23:50] <playa> can we crumb him to do it? [23:51] <Kita666> perhaps [23:51] <playa> Like cosmic i think you should focus on RYU tomorrow? [23:51] <playa> is that breaking the game? [23:51] <Kita666> not sure [23:51] <playa> no [23:51] <playa> it playing to win condition [23:51] <playa> plus it's risky [23:52] <playa> ther are 17 alive [23:53] <playa> 2 mafia 2 mafia/3p two 3p and 11 townies [23:54] <playa> with mislynches and no vigs 3 town die per day [23:54] <playa> if he converts town [23:55] <playa> then tomorrow we have 4 mafia 3 third party and 7 town [23:56] <Kita666> and that ensures he can't be lynched [23:56] <playa> and the next day would be 4 mafia 4 third party and 4 town [23:56] <playa> yup [23:56] <Kita666> cool [23:56] <playa> but it also assume that town will be converted and they will do so quickly [23:58] <playa> if they take the full cycle recruit like i did then the 3p number will be 1 lower and the town ones will be 1 higher [23:58] <playa> but us two at least need two more mislynches [23:58] <Kita666> true [23:58] <playa> and then we should be able to get the next one [00:14] <playa> are we done here? [00:18] <Kita666> I think so [00:18] <Kita666> I'm going to afk for a bit [00:18] <playa> drh want to see communication [00:19] <playa> but we cant post this in qt [00:19] <playa> should i pm him? [00:19] <Kita666> already did [00:19] <Kita666> :p [00:20] <playa> "[23:33] <Kita666> ah, mind sending drh a pm just in case? I'd do it, but I'm at work" [00:20] <playa> LIAR [00:25] <Kita666> lol he skyped me [00:25] <Kita666> no tl needed :p I have also discovered the source of my confusion about how i won! + Show Spoiler + ...alcohol (no topic set) [01:20] == playa [02db242b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.2.219.36.43] has joined #MLPfanclub [01:20] <playa> yo [01:20] <playa> kita [01:20] <playa> kita666 [01:20] <playa> we do not count toward the mafia count for them to win [01:20] <playa> also i drink much [01:22] <playa> but cosmic has to alive with the remaining players all form one faction [01:23] <playa> so we need to have all 3p and no scum [01:23] <playa> or all 3p and no town [01:23] <playa> but obviously we can win if mafia + 3p > or= to town [01:24] <playa> we ight also want to consider asking for shorter days since we will need many more | ||
layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
March 31 2013 01:37 GMT
#3170
cosmic's case on kitaman was in my opnion the strongest case in the game and if you overlooked it i would like to know why. *4 mafia 2 third party 7 town ---lynch--> 4 mafia 7 town --2 nightkills--> 4 mafia 5 town and scum still have 2 kp so will win | ||
layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
March 31 2013 01:49 GMT
#3172
I agree with you about VE but i would do it out of policy. VE wasn't going to bring all that to the thread unless he was still town. | ||
layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
March 31 2013 01:56 GMT
#3175
+ Show Spoiler [*] + Does anybody else think it's funny that Dr.h uses cylce to mean a day or night and everyone else uses it too mean day and night cycle? | ||
layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
March 31 2013 02:03 GMT
#3176
THE Best comment in game: On March 27 2013 09:18 DoYouHas wrote: Laya says that 3p makes a LOT more sense as an explanation for the Mirror when I would argue that the opposite is true. If the mirror is a 3p recruitmen role, why does no recruiting mechanic make sense? Yes, I've harped on this before. If the town is stacked with 6 powerful roles, 3xVig, doc, det, vet, what sort of answering power does scum have? RB, mason, maybe a GF? That isn't balanced. What would make it more balanced is if The Mirror was a scum version of the Nightmare role. DoYouHas calls out the scum teams roles and argues there is no 3p because it would be imbalanced in town's favor. | ||
layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
March 31 2013 02:35 GMT
#3185
On March 31 2013 11:03 Ace wrote: Well i was recruited because i had no idea it would happen since i thought CC was a town mason so after a day and night i got a pm. But that's the only way for it to happen by leaving VE doesn't get recruited and remains town. What he said in the qt didn't matter.DP then you'd have to prove that Kita and Ryu are Scum. Based on the state of the game - that seemed to be a mountainous task. Scum played it well and made it difficult to happen. Can't complain about it. Sure there are situations where you've got to play the odds and try to get help - but once again let's be realistic here. All the Town players are posting in public. Even if you somehow got to the situation where "ok guys, CC is on our side for now, let's lynch our top collective Scum reads and buy time" isn't going to work. The Scum team has perfect information and can easily screw with this. The 3rd party recruiter CC is only going to help you as far as he needs to live another day: he'll recruit the most protown player/confirmed town the next night and screw you. Both factions can see your moves and you have no way of stopping them from doing their actions. To top it all off yes reducing Scum KP is an admirable goal but the Town has no clue of the KP formula, the possible roles (as 3rd party Recruiter pops out of nowhere), nor does it know the total number of Scum in the game. Your plan isn't a bad idea on the surface but that is a lot of information missing if you want to take a long shot. Also DoctorH in the future if you're going to mess with converting roles, don't allow them to recruit Mafia. There are ways around it but this is one of the reasons we try not to deal with recruiters. Show nested quote + On March 31 2013 10:56 layabout wrote: The mechanic worked around being masoned for a certain length of time* and whoever was masoned could end it whenever they choose. + Show Spoiler [*] + Does anybody else think it's funny that Dr.h uses cylce to mean a day or night and everyone else uses it too mean day and night cycle? So what was the difference between you and VE? Just you got recruited by being masoned longer and VE gets to "dodge" recruitment? | ||
layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
March 31 2013 02:40 GMT
#3187
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
March 31 2013 04:05 GMT
#3214
Just before i was converted the qt cut off and i was unable to communicate with cc outside of the thread. I wasn't prepared to sacrifice myself when i found out that i would be converted back to mafia. On day4 for instance it would have been best for me to just do nothing let cosmic die and become mafia again. In the end i decided that playing in the spirit of the game was more important than playing optimal and whilst it might have annoyed the mafia team i think it made the game much more interesting. | ||
layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
March 31 2013 04:52 GMT
#3226
I remember having a 12 page filter in purgatoryand those posts were LONG and full of big spoilers. After that game i realized i had been putting too much time in and have made a conscious effort to take more time off because of the negative impact it was having on my life. But that amount of posting doesn't even sound that high anymore. I post 20-40 times per cycle(day+night) and i labelled a lurker. Before the start of this game Dr.h made sure to link to guides and asked us to think about our posts. Day1 was moving quite slowly at first and i think he said in irc that he was happy that people were taking the time to think before posting. But as the game went on the thread was filled with hundreds of careless posts and it reached the point where reading let alone analyzing was a task. When people make an effort to consolidate their posts it becomes much easier to follow their train of thought and to know where they stand. When you post a lot or your posts are short people have to piece the bits together and try to find context. And when you post a lot and get into arguments and claim things you don't need to people don't want to try to analyze you. I wonder how many people were deliberately not filtering one of Wade fell, VisceraEyes and Mocsta? As town i might skim but there is no way i am delving through each of their posts in detail. Posting a lot can be an effective way to play but for me the important thing to do as any alignment is to think what the point of your post is. Every time you post in the thread you should have a reason for making that post and it should further your teams goals. Sometimes there is an important question that needs to be asked, somebody might need prodding or maybe you have a case you can use to nail your target. At the moment it feel like lot's of people are posting conversationally or for the sake of it and it makes it far more difficult for the town to focus. It is possible to have a VE length filter with most or all of it being purposeful, but if you try it and don't post effectively then you are being a big detriment to town. | ||
layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
April 01 2013 00:45 GMT
#3287
On March 31 2013 14:50 Mocsta wrote: Show nested quote + On March 31 2013 14:03 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: On March 31 2013 13:58 Blazinghand wrote: 1) Layabout tells us he's masoned with CC. I think someone mentioned CC was 3p at this point? not sure 2) at some point Layabout claims 3p in scum QT, saying he was converted but is still scum 3) Kitaman tells layabout he too has been converted. Layabout isn't (???) fooled by this, and (knowing kita is in fact scum???), shared crucial information about how the 3p works, thereby giving Kita the means to shut down CC. I initially thought Kita had suckered Layabout and pumped him for info, but layabout claims he was never suckered/pumped for info, and he offered all that voluntarily and without being fooled. This is why I really hated this third party role. I felt like if scum was somehow converted he could never authentically play his new role. Either it would be too broken by posting the mafia team and GGing the game, or he would just float back to his team and try to get the third party killed which went directly against his win condition, but would also be creating a new win condition for him by allowing him to regain his former win condition. Agree in full. I think I commented a similar thing in the obsqt. Im still not sure whether layabout knew he would re-convert though? I asked when kitaman27 mentioned chaoser in lotr but i never told my team. So around day3. Seems like there is a lot of confusion about what actually happened to me since the scum qt is a bitch to me and that's where the information is so i will try to clarify some things: I was masoned a few hours before the end of day1 and a few hours into day2 was told to stop talking in the mason qt and got a pm telling me i had to stop cosmic getting lynched and that he was immune to night actions. When i was converted i wanted to bus but since that would be ruining the game i decided to keep it to myself unless cosmic became an easy lynch. So i just tried to play like mafia and wanted to help my team win with 3p. When i was converted i had no idea it would happen. I believed that cosmic was a town mason and i didn't opt out because i forgot the OP mentioned 3p roles. I also saw it as a chance to look townie to him and thought that only scum would be scared of being masoned. We just discussed reads for a bit. I intended to push cosmicomics if he didn't call BH scum after BH claimed mason and had said so to BH. But before he came back to thread i was recruited. After VE outed the mirror role i realized that my team had enough information to figure out that i was recruited. But i stayed silent. On day 3 there were a number of townies pushing cosmicomics and since my team knew he had mason powers he was the best target for us to try to lynch so i decided to tell them that i had been converted and i continue playing for a mafia + 3p win. On day4 i would have been best off letting cosmic die and winning with mafia. But since that would have been against the spirit of the game and since my team decided to put me in that position i tried to push kitaman27, i still don't know why you ignored cc's case. I thought i was a really good case and after he claimed mirror kitaman should have been lynched. I was not angry about being converted, it was quite fun to play and it was really nice knowing so much more about the set-up than anyone else. I held all of the cards but could use them without ruining the game. But i think that the role is broken unless you try to play it as intended. Imagine if i hadn't told my team and cosmic had mirror claimed to me like he did with VE. I could just hand him the scum team and push them without fear of them punishing cc and bus them knowing that i am secure in my wincon and he isn't in danger of being lynched for days. I think having to keep another player alive is a bad win-condition. Because the biggest factor in whether or not they die is how they play and not how i play. The win-condition reverting upon cosmics death creates situations in which mirror images are better off letting him die and i think it would be better if recruits died with him. I also think this set-up was a hard win for mafia compared to others, town had 3 vigis, medic, cop, and it took 2(?) modkills 1 mis vig shot, 4 town mislynches and a 3p lynch vs 1 correct vig shot and a vet hit on town's side, for the mafia team to win. When you add in the 3p there are too many ways for the mafia to lose players outside of the lynch without being able to protect themselves and i think mafia medic would have been a good addition. I was also disappointed that the rolenames had such a small impact on the game. | ||
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