Mafia is an educated guessing game of epic proportions. The objective of the game is to lynch or kill all mafia members before they outnumber the rest of the town. It's much like a game of poker because mafia members are also part of the town during the day and may manipulate the vote to their liking. If the mafia at any time outnumber or equal the townspeople, they win. The town's goal is to lynch all the members of the mafia.
The game is typically very active, so the thread will get big quickly. However, it is essential to read the thread to play the game. If you do not have the time or patience to read the whole thread, do not play. I will not compensate for ignorance.
Rules:
Cheating: Cheating includes (but is not limited to): 1. Posting after death. You may have one polite goodbye post, but it may not contain any potentially game-changing information. 2. Ruining the game by doing something like hand out your mafia's member list to the town. 3. Logging on to someone else's account to get their role or looking over someone's shoulder to get their role. 4. Comparing role PM times to determine roles. 5. Posting screenshots of your inbox. 6. Posting or sharing any PM you receive from a host. 7. Getting yourself modkilled to help your team. Your non-majority-decided death may not be used as a bargaining chip. 8. Signing up more than once using smurf accounts. 9. Betting items outside of the game in exchange for in-game benefits. 10. Sharing accounts with other players unless cleared by the host in advance. Otherwise, only you may post on your account.
Cheating is not tolerated here. The punishment will be severe.
Posting:
Mod Font: This is mod font. It is reserved for moderators. Please do not use it.
Question Font: This is question font. Use it to ask the moderators questions about the rules. Please do us a favor and read the rules before you ask anything.
Activity: You must post in this thread once per day/night cycle and vote every day while you are alive. If you fail to do so, you will be modkilled.
Smurfs: No smurfs in here. This is a newbie game!
Spam: Spam is not tolerated, nor is any off-topic material. Do not discuss Proleague here. Do not talk about Starcraft II here. Play Mafia here. This also means you should condense your posts when possible. 15 one-liners in 30 minutes is unacceptable.
Encryption: Don't do it.
Editing: Editing is not allowed for any reason. Editing will result in a warning. After that, you will be modkilled. This is the one part of the site where it is okay to be double posting, even triple-posting. While I ask for everybody to post as concisely as possible, post again using the acronym (EBWOP: Edit by way of posting) if you want to clarify/correct something you just posted.
Inappropriate posts: If you want to post something insulting or inappropriate and know the TL mods would have a problem with it elsewhere, don't post it here. If you do, a host will warn you or modkill you and request that you be banned from future games. The hosts have the final say on what is inappropriate. If you do not like how someone is talking to you, please PM a host, GMarshal, or Mig before involving the TL staff. If you are unsatisfied with how the situation is resolved, then you can appeal to the TL staff normally.
Reporting posts: The report button is a nice feature for regular TL, but not for this forum. We prefer to deal with things in house if possible to avoid confusion among the TL staff. If you have a problem with how someone is posting, talk to the host, co-host, GMarshal, or Mig before using your report button. Please do not use your report button for anything other than inappropriate posts which you feel are not being dealt with adequately.
Ban discussions: Please wait until this game is over to talk about modkills and bans resulting from this game.
Play to win. This means you play your best to help your team win while you are alive and in the game. However, this does not mean that you should try to win by being a jerk to the other players so they all want to quit playing.
This also means that you cannot leave the game without a good reason without a ban. These situations will be dealt with on a case by case basis. PM me or the co-hosts if you need to leave the game.
You have been warned.
Voting rules:
This game uses plurality lynch. The player with most votes at deadline will be lynched. 1. Voting is done in this thread. Please keep votes there, and only vote there. Do not PM me your vote. 2. Please vote in the following format: ##Vote: Promethelax. Votes not done in the correct fashion will not be counted. I or my co-hosts will update vote counts whenever we get the chance. 3. If you change your vote, please ##Unvote before posting another vote (can be done in the same post). 4. No conditional voting. 5. You may not vote for yourself. You may not vote for anyone dead or outside the game. 6. Voting is mandatory. You may NOT abstain. 7. Ties are resolved like this: (link) 8. You may vote for a no-lynch.
Signups:
This game is open to players with 3 or fewer games on TL Mafia. Signups will remain open until the game is full. If you have played more but a long time ago, I might accept. Type /in if you want to play. Please be sure to check back to the thread regularly so that you are aware that the game has begun.
Game-specific rules:
Modkills: This game follows the TL Mafia Ban List. If you are modkilled, your punishment will go beyond being eliminated from this game. Please refer to it for questions about your punishment. If you want to use this game to sit out your ban, please PM Flamewheel or post in the Ban List.
Replacements This game uses replacements. Replacements will be made until Day 3. If a player is modkilled, they will be replaced by a player on the replacement list if possible. Type /replace if you want to be put on the replacement list. Replacements have to fulfill the same criteria as people who want to play (aka 3 games or fewer on TL Mafia).
Clues: There are no clues.
PMs PMs are not allowed in this game. No out-of-thread communication of any sort is allowed unless cleared by the hosts. Scum will be provided a QT to communicate in, as will Masons, Hydras or shadowing players.
Time Cycle: This game will follow a 24 hour night/48 hour day-cycle. In case I am not able to post around deadline, any votes after the 48 hour mark will not count and the game will be put on halt until the night post is up. Currently the deadline is 22:00 GMT (+00:00), but that is subject to change. Actions/votes will be accepted up to and including the posted time, but not after.
Credits: This post shamefully stolen from NMM LIII (with slight modifications) Thanks to pretty much every TL mafia player/host/mod/etc.
On February 20 2013 21:59 Acrofales wrote:
Newbie-specific stuff
1.It's already in the rules, but remember, no editing. If you feel you must correct your post, please make a second post to clarify your statements. You may put EBWOP ("Edit by way of post," a handy acronym invented by semioldguy) at the beginning of your post to indicate that you are clearing up a point you made. If your EBWOP post is several posts after your original, please quote your original post in your EBWOP post for the sake of clarity.
2. Only sign up if you know you will have the time available to properly play the game. It is essential that players remain active in a newbie game, so only /in if you are able to play to your fullest.
3. If there is any sort of issue, you are unsure about some mechanic, or you are just wondering if your devilish scheme is even allowed, feel free to PM me, or ask in-thread with green text. Don't feel shy; these games are meant to be a place to learn and be open.
4. Behave as gentlemen (or ladies). Things get heated here, but personal attacks will not be acceptable, and will be dealt with accordingly. Remember, this is a game; have fun and happy scumhunting!
5. Please do not talk about any ongoing games either in-game or pre-game. This can affect other games and is unacceptable. Please do not refer to outside-of- thread activity of players in this thread.
6. If you receive coaching, don't tell town about it.
This is a semi-open setup. There are four possible setups, and which setup is chosen will be RNGed. The chosen setup is not revealed, but it should be deducible as the game goes on.
Town Roles
College Kid (Vanilla Townie): You're just trying to have a good time on spring break, but people keep being paranoid about these hillbillies even though they seem like normal people.You are a VT. You have no powers but may vote.
Tucker (Parity Cop): You were just trying to enjoy your earned vacation at your newly bought vacation home, an abandoned mansion in the woods, before things started getting a little crazy. Why are all kids acting like you're some sort of creepy axe murderer. You're just a nice hillbilly living a normal life! You are a Parity Cop. Each night you target someone, and you're told if the alignment of your target is the same or different as your previous target. Your N1 check doesn't return anything, but is necessary for your N2 check to work. You can't check yourself. Your check is compared to your last successful check, so if you forgot to send in a check during N2 or got roleblocked, your N3 check is compared to who you checked N1.
Dale (Doctor): You're just tagging a long with your best friend Tucker, just going with the flow of life. You've really been struggling with the ladies. How come you can't show some confidence every once in a while? At least you have compassion for others. Probably the nicest guy in the world. You are a Doctor. Each night, you can save someone from the nightkill. You can't protect the same player twice in a row. You can't save yourself.
Town Win Condition - The town wins when there are no mafia left in the game or nothing can prevent that from happening.
Mafia Roles
Scared College Kid (Mafia Goon): Hillbillies are really scary and dangerous. You think they are killing your friends, therefore you have to protect yourself and the rest of your crew by taking them out! You are scum. You have no special powers. You win when scum outnumbers town or nothing can prevent that.
Chad (Mafia RB): You carry around this axe. You go to college and are on spring break on a trip to the woods. You're pretty messed up psychologically, you don't know why. You are scum. You are a Roleblocker. Each night, you may RB a target. You can RB and send in the factional KP in the same night if you are the last scum. The target, even if he is a VT, is notified of being roleblocked. You win when scum outnumbers town or nothing can prevent that.
Mafia Win condition - The mafia wins when they equal or outnumber the town. Each night mafia may select one person to shoot. The nk is factional.
Possible Setups
A) 1 Scared College Kid, 1 Chad, 1 Tucker, 1 Dale, 5 College Kids B) 2 Scared College Kids, 1 Tucker, 6 College Kids C) 2 Scared College Kids, 1 Dale, 6 College Kids D) 1 Scared College Kid, 1 Chad, 7 College Kids
Each setup is equally likely. Who gets what role will be RNGed.
Cavalinho playing as Tucker was lynched Day 1. Eden1892 playing as a College Kid was killed Night 1. Pixalated playing as a College Kid was lynched/modkilled Day 2. RolandJarvis playing as a College Kid was killed Night 2.
Maybe we can both get the same group so I can shadow coach with you? I don't know how effective I was last time. Funny though, my reads were pretty decent.
Is it okay if I'm given links to Geripts coach qts? That way I can discuss coaching with him and keep him in line, your call though, obviously. Even though you are a hosting thief, you and bh both jumped the queue, ya bastards.
Yeah that should be fine, you're an experienced coach so you can obviously deal with having more information about the game without it interfering with your coaching and your player.
Maybe we can both get the same group so I can shadow coach with you? I don't know how effective I was last time. Funny though, my reads were pretty decent.
On March 14 2014 09:42 Promethelax wrote: Is it okay if I'm given links to Geripts coach qts? That way I can discuss coaching with him and keep him in line, your call though, obviously. Even though you are a hosting thief, you and bh both jumped the queue, ya bastards.
On March 14 2014 09:42 Promethelax wrote: Is it okay if I'm given links to Geripts coach qts? That way I can discuss coaching with him and keep him in line, your call though, obviously. Even though you are a hosting thief, you and bh both jumped the queue, ya bastards.
@balla, I may be close to having coached the most. Usually when I take time off I coach and I've had a lot of newbies over the years. I dunno who has coached the most games though, hmmm... I wanna look into this now.
Balla...4 games makes me non-newb?!?! Also, I don't think I'd be a very good coach, so def out as coach. Sorry. I'd love to play though and keep getting my feet wet, especially since the time commitment in newb games is a lot less than in your crazy games with 1000000 posts
On March 14 2014 14:25 IAmRobik wrote: Balla...4 games makes me non-newb?!?! Also, I don't think I'd be a very good coach, so def out as coach. Sorry. I'd love to play though and keep getting my feet wet, especially since the time commitment in newb games is a lot less than in your crazy games with 1000000 posts
This game is open to players with 3 or fewer games on TL Mafia. Signups will remain open until the game is full. If you have played more but a long time ago, I might accept. Type /in if you want to play. Please be sure to check back to the thread regularly so that you are aware that the game has begun.
FWIW though I think you'd be a perfectly fine coach. You have more experience than me tbh. Let me know if you really don't want to coach though and I can remove you.
I'll pass on coaching opportunities for now. I'd rather get coached. There's still so much I can learn, and I don't want any potential student to turn into me cause that will just end in a everyone getting banned from TL for BM
On March 14 2014 23:40 IAmRobik wrote: I'll pass on coaching opportunities for now. I'd rather get coached. There's still so much I can learn, and I don't want any potential student to turn into me cause that will just end in a everyone getting banned from TL for BM
If you want more coaching (town coaching in particular) feel free to contact me. I'm pretty much always happy to coach as long as it is okay with the game host.
I wouldn't worry about the bm thing though, I'm pretty bm but I don't teach my newbies my bad behaviours.
On March 14 2014 10:29 OnceKing wrote: Amiko, Valenius, pls play I don't want to be waiting forever for this game to start
If it takes long enough to start I'll join :3 otherwise I'll get modkilled from not posting every day/night (or lynched for posting only like 3 lines a day for a few days)
On March 15 2014 00:01 IAmRobik wrote: Yeah, but you guys know my style by now...Not sure it's really explainable. I need Rayn to teach me how to be objective or something -.-
Everyone remember to post a ton of short content-free posts, ideally with pictures of sheep herders and sheep dogs, that way our post count will be high enough everyone will knows we are really good at this game.
Looking forward to the start of this game. I'm actually okay with game lengths being around the same as our 1st one one (minus d3's activity). Idk how you can all manage with these 100 page day 1's.
On March 18 2014 03:09 Amiko wrote: Everyone remember to post a ton of short content-free posts, ideally with pictures of sheep herders and sheep dogs, that way our post count will be high enough everyone will knows we are really good at this game.
I am increasingly optimistic about this game :D (also if we fill up I'd rather not start on the 23rd since I will be busy most of the day, but if we do I will make due so it is ok!)
If this game is as slow as the last one, I might be able to actually play.
/in
Just don't expect big posts from me this time. I'll be playing on a Kindle Fire rather than an actual computer. Multiquotes are going to be a pain too.
I am sending out confirmation PMs now, please respond swiftly. If everybody confirms, we will be starting the game tomorrow at 22:00 GMT (+00:00) If not, then we will begin searching for a replacement for that person at that time, once that happens we will start the next day at the deadline. Role PMs will go out shortly before that, once role PMs go out I will post that they are going out and there will be no talking in thread until day post.
Feel free to contact me in the meantime if you have any questions about the setup or game in general.
alternately i am offendered by the use of such a derogative term for proud rural dwelling white folk with so many negative connotations, pls be more politically correct in your villains. like nazis, or killer robits from da future. SKYNET
Pre-game johns for Eden and myself: currently we're playing a mafia game on another forum. While I'm still going to be trying my hardest here I'm going to be seeing that game through until I die or the game ends. Eden will probably be doing the same.
I did read through a couple of games though (including the previous newbie which some of you played in!) so I should (hopefully) know what I'm doing haha
Hey guys we will be using Gonzaw's Super mafia spreadsheet! All players, observers and hosts will have access to it, and lonemeow and I will be doing our best to update it as the game goes on. Feel free to use it or ignore it, or whatever you want to do!
After finding a spot to camp out where everybody is re-convening, just by the lake, about an hour hike away from the main road you came in on and probably 30 more to the nearest town. The college kids notice their buddy LoneMeow missing. Shortly thereafter, LoneMeow comes running to find everybody. "Guys come check this out! I found a cool ass mansion, we could probably stay there, I think it's abandoned". Everyone follows him as he runs off in the direction he came in.
As everyone catches up, they spot the mansion and notice LoneMeow heading in the front door. As soon as he opens the door he is grabbed and everyone hears a scream as the door shuts behind him. Some of you rush to his rescue and open the door, revealing a dark, empty, foyer.
LoneMeow, the curious courageous college kid has disappeared!!
Lightning strikes.
Welcome to Day 1. This Day ends in about 48 hours from this post on Thursday, Mar 27 10:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00)
Ok, let's talk policy. Let's policy lynch lurkers. This is not to say that I think all lurkers are mafia or all mafia lurkers, but instead that lurking is pushing a mafia agenda and not only will you more likely find mafia in a list of players pushing a mafia agenda but also forcing everyone to talk drives the mafia into the open.
Can you expand on that a little bit OK, just so i've got it clear?
Are you talking policy lynch inactives? They'll be hit by a modkill. Are you talking policy lynch lurkers regardless of any other factors? What if 7/9 of us were set on a certain player as being mafia, would you still try to push the policy lynch? Are you talking about policy lynch lurkers when we have no other reads? I agree with this one.
Yes all other things being equal it should be the lurker that's lynched. A mafia member who's forced to talk regularly (not lurking) will at least more likely be forced into a corner and if we're lucky may even slip up.
On March 26 2014 08:40 OnceKing wrote: Ok, let's talk policy. Let's policy lynch lurkers. This is not to say that I think all lurkers are mafia or all mafia lurkers, but instead that lurking is pushing a mafia agenda and not only will you more likely find mafia in a list of players pushing a mafia agenda but also forcing everyone to talk drives the mafia into the open.
On March 26 2014 09:01 Valenius wrote: Can you expand on that a little bit OK, just so i've got it clear?
Are you talking policy lynch inactives? They'll be hit by a modkill. Are you talking policy lynch lurkers regardless of any other factors? What if 7/9 of us were set on a certain player as being mafia, would you still try to push the policy lynch? Are you talking about policy lynch lurkers when we have no other reads? I agree with this one.
Sleep for me anyway, see you guys tomorrow.
I like this post a lot. Valenius is both interrogating OK and giving answers simultaneously about what reads like genuine beliefs. Town lean.
On March 26 2014 12:15 Cavalinho wrote: Robik are you town?
On March 26 2014 12:05 IAmRobik wrote: The town hero has arrived
You, sir, lack reading comprehension. Of course I'm town. I don't get rolled mafia on TL. It's the greatest feeling ever. Being scum sucks, and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.
On March 26 2014 12:05 IAmRobik wrote: The town hero has arrived
You, sir, lack reading comprehension. Of course I'm town. I don't get rolled mafia on TL. It's the greatest feeling ever. Being scum sucks, and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.
OK is...Off. Like, his post is just...weird. I don't really know how to describe it, but it's like he says a thing about policy and it just kinda comes out of nowhere.
On another topic, why is it that you're asking me specifically? Is it because you already knew that I was weirded out by his post?
I ask you because sqrt said he's off to bed and it seems that you and I are the only ones left here.
Back to the topic at hand, why didn't you give a read on the other two and deflect onto a pointless question about why I directed the question AT YOU. If I knew where you stood on people, if you expressed those opinions in the thread, I wouldn't have to ask you, now would I?
On March 26 2014 08:40 OnceKing wrote: Ok, let's talk policy. Let's policy lynch lurkers. This is not to say that I think all lurkers are mafia or all mafia lurkers, but instead that lurking is pushing a mafia agenda and not only will you more likely find mafia in a list of players pushing a mafia agenda but also forcing everyone to talk drives the mafia into the open.
What do you guys think?
wtf is this shit?
What does it look like? Let's go through the logical construction.
Suppose we preferentially policy lynch lurkers (thanks for clearing that up Valenius). Then players who lurk and are as or more suspicious as others will be lynched. Therefore, to avoid being lynched (which is unsurprisingly in the best interest of both town and mafia) players cannot lurk. They must talk. If you talk nonsense or push a scum agenda, you get lynched. If you talk productively and push good discussion then you don't unless you start looking scummy for some reason or other. Therefore, two things happen: 1) mafia are unable to lurk effectively, so they're easier to catch, which is good for town. 2) good discussion is promoted and a good town atmosphere is set, which is good for town.
As I said, I'm not saying all lurkers are mafia or all mafia or lurkers. I'm saying that the mafia would like to lurk because lurking pushes an anti-town agenda, so therefore by not letting people lurk we benefit.
On March 26 2014 12:49 IAmRobik wrote: I ask you because sqrt said he's off to bed and it seems that you and I are the only ones left here.
Back to the topic at hand, why didn't you give a read on the other two and deflect onto a pointless question about why I directed the question AT YOU. If I knew where you stood on people, if you expressed those opinions in the thread, I wouldn't have to ask you, now would I?
OK is on. >.>
In all seriousness, I don't really have any thoughts on sqrt and Val other than the fact that they're both null. Sqrt has been goofing off and Val has said stuff but none of it really feels relevant yet.
Dude, you're just talking semantics. I don't have a fuck about that. If you want to push on people who aren't posting a lot, then go ahead and do you. You don't have to set that shit up with a post about how you want to go on quiet people. That's the part that I don't fucking get. Like, if you want someone to post so that you get an opinion of them that's fine...pressure them. You can't just say "oh, i'm going to policy lynch all lurkers." That's a scummy as thing to say and do. I don't care if it's in mafia's favor to be quiet (which it probably is).
I guess what I'm saying is "do, don't say."
And yeah, I think you're scummy for saying that and not doing it.
I don't see any problem with onceking talking about policy. The thread before he came in was all empty and fluff with people talking about hearthstone and whatnot. He pushed the conversation to something that has some relevance to the game. Sure, talking about policy is a good way for scum to 'contribute' without actually doing much, but it's still better than talking about hearthstone.
I also don't see why you think Val is town just because he asked onceking to clarify his shit. It was a pretty useless question, it's easy to understand what onceking wanted to achieve with that post - create the atmosphere that no one can lurk and has to post.
But instead all he does is make a rather long post asking about potential situations blabla... When I think that it's pretty clear - if we have a solid read we lynch it, if not we lynch a lurker. Seems like he's trying to be helpful without actually being helpful.
If I'm missing something please explain why you think that someone bringing something up to get town to actually discuss something instead of talking fluff = scum. And why asking dumb questions = town.
On March 26 2014 13:08 OnceKing wrote: I talked about policy to bring us out of RVS. Your turn. What do you think of the fact that Robik seems to have so many reads so quickly?
He has outed two reads. I think that hardly constitutes "many reads."
They sound somewhat stretched, but I don't think I'm ready to commit to interrogating anyone on that line of thinking when we have several players that haven't even posted yet.
Oh and here's another fun question for you Cav: Why do you need me to answer your question in order to answer mine? Are we playing truth or dare (without dare)? Are you trying to get out of answering questions until later?
On March 26 2014 13:09 Pixalated wrote: If I'm missing something please explain why you think that someone bringing something up to get town to actually discuss something instead of talking fluff = scum. And why asking dumb questions = town.
Because it didn't actually look or seem like he was doing that.
On March 26 2014 13:12 OnceKing wrote: Oh and here's another fun question for you Cav: Why do you need me to answer your question in order to answer mine? Are we playing truth or dare (without dare)? Are you trying to get out of answering questions until later?
No, I simply felt like you were dodging the question.
If that's the case, why did you insist that I answer first? You could have answered my question and then asked your question again, as I did. Robik gave three very quick reads off of only a few posts. Let's break it down:
sqrt - jokes and one liners during RVS. Lots of 'em. Made no posts afterwards, yet. Mysteriously Robik's got a town read off of that. Valenius - qualification of what I mean when I talk about policy. Robik town reads it, slightly. me - brings game out of RVS and now we're actually talking about things. Robik thinks I'm scummy.
##VOTE: IAmRobik Want to explain this, Robik? You seem to think you know an awful lot.
On March 26 2014 13:09 Pixalated wrote: If I'm missing something please explain why you think that someone bringing something up to get town to actually discuss something instead of talking fluff = scum. And why asking dumb questions = town.
Because there's a way that I perceive town approaching a situation or scenario and a way mafia would. I think that valenius's post was in a manner that town would phrase it. Thus a town read on him.
OK just posted a generalized statement about lynching UTRs. While the strategy is sound, it's more of a town play to just vote on someone who hasn't posted a lot or someone that hasn't posted thus FORCING them to come and be active.
Having said that, I'm sick and tired of talking about the semantics of it. I want to hear people's reads. I want people to put pressure on others.
On March 26 2014 13:22 OnceKing wrote: If that's the case, why did you insist that I answer first? You could have answered my question and then asked your question again, as I did. Robik gave three very quick reads off of only a few posts. Let's break it down:
sqrt - jokes and one liners during RVS. Lots of 'em. Made no posts afterwards, yet. Mysteriously Robik's got a town read off of that. Valenius - qualification of what I mean when I talk about policy. Robik town reads it, slightly. me - brings game out of RVS and now we're actually talking about things. Robik thinks I'm scummy.
##VOTE: IAmRobik Want to explain this, Robik? You seem to think you know an awful lot.
I give reads off of minute things I pick up. I don't hold back my reads. I'll clear someone for the most minuscule detail. That's what I do. If that's your reason for voting me that's idiotic. How about you actually give some reads instead of contributing some random nonsense. kthxbye
In what world does a mafia come into the game and start talking to himself for 10 posts? Mafia has all the reason in the world to sit back and not do shit and contribute when something is happening and then push some random town who is on the chopping blocks. I don't give a damn if it was 10 posts of filler about how he's doing today and how his HS run was going.
Will placing a vote on a random lurker do anything? One vote at this point means nothing, not to mention that many probably didn't have an opportunity to come into the thread yet.
If a random lurker is mafia, maybe his teammate will tell him. IDK. It's infinitely more productive than saying "hey, let's lynch all lurkers" cause it doesn't put any pressure on anyone specific.
Pixalated, you seem to like my points an awful lot. But that's the only thing you seem to be commenting on. What do you make of Robik's interactions with everyone else?
On March 26 2014 09:01 Valenius wrote: Can you expand on that a little bit OK, just so i've got it clear?
Are you talking policy lynch inactives? They'll be hit by a modkill. Are you talking policy lynch lurkers regardless of any other factors? What if 7/9 of us were set on a certain player as being mafia, would you still try to push the policy lynch? Are you talking about policy lynch lurkers when we have no other reads? I agree with this one.
Sleep for me anyway, see you guys tomorrow.
I like this post a lot. Valenius is both interrogating OK and giving answers simultaneously about what reads like genuine beliefs. Town lean.
Both of these posts are terrible. Talking to oneself as a joke at game start literally doesn't mean anything about alignment at all. And while it's good that Valenius is asking questions to clarify what OnceKing meant -- perhaps even town-leaning -- there are no "genuine beliefs" stated in this post except to policy lynch inactives in absence of reads, which again doesn't say anything about alignment.
Furthermore what is actually wrong about what OnceKing is doing? He said he would preferentially lynch lurkers, everything else being the same, and he's trying to convince you guys to do it as well. That's not a mafia trait. It's probably null; leans very slight town for actually trying to get people to go with him, but I wouldn't clear him off of it.
On March 26 2014 12:56 IAmRobik wrote: And yeah, I think you're scummy for saying that and not doing it.
And yet he's not voting for OnceKing. Guess what? I think you're scummy for saying that and not doing it.
I respectfully disagree with what you are saying Eden. Clearing people for my perceived notion of town vs mafia play is not terrible -- it's how I play the game. You might not agree. You might not like it. But it is what it is. And my reads in those cases are damn good, so you better start respecting them.
I don't like how he cleared both sqrt and val. Already explained why I don't feel that Val's questions make him town, and sqrt posting random stuff doesn't mean much.
What this means about his alignment I'm not sure. Could be mafia trying to get cred by claiming that people are townie and having 'right' reads when they flip.
- Pixalated is correct to point out that OK brought the game out of the joke phase and now that I'm reading his last couple posts I'm nodding in agreement. Slight town lean because his thought process is following mine pretty well. Wouldn't clear him based off that but it's fine for a few hours in. - OnceKing town lean for now, moved the game out of the joke phase, Robik tried pushing an opportunistic lynch on him; I think Robik is scum and busing his teammate so early is stupid. - Cavalinho arguably looks worse than Robik for just echoing Robik's bad points and promising to go reread an old game then not posting any findings.
On March 26 2014 13:45 IAmRobik wrote: I respectfully disagree with what you are saying Eden. Clearing people for my perceived notion of town vs mafia play is not terrible -- it's how I play the game.
Then the way you play the game is terrible. None of your reads make any logical sense and frankly look manufactured.
On March 26 2014 13:47 Pixalated wrote: I don't like how he cleared both sqrt and val. Already explained why I don't feel that Val's questions make him town, and sqrt posting random stuff doesn't mean much.
What this means about his alignment I'm not sure. Could be mafia trying to get cred by claiming that people are townie and having 'right' reads when they flip.
... so he has two things you don't like and you draw no inference about his alignment?
On March 26 2014 13:45 IAmRobik wrote: I respectfully disagree with what you are saying Eden. Clearing people for my perceived notion of town vs mafia play is not terrible -- it's how I play the game.
Then the way you play the game is terrible. None of your reads make any logical sense and frankly look manufactured.
That's fine that you feel that way. My style isn't for everyone. That doesn't mean that I'm wrong and that doesn't mean that I'm bad. I've probably played more games of mafia than almost anyone here (in this game and most of the players on this site)...in the process I've picked up on small intricacies in the game and I'm able to clear people for things that other people don't notice. You don't have to like it, but that's how I play. None of that makes me mafia. In fact, it makes me more likely to be town. As mafia, I wouldn't want to put myself in a position where I've cleared people and then have to fucking backtrack and retract and vote on people who I said were town. Anyway. I'm town, thus you're voting for a townie right now. You should prolly unvote if you're town and want to win the game.
(For what it's worth, I think you're town. Even though your conclusion is wrong, your thoughts are very logical.)
Valenius, Cavalinho, LT, RJ, sqrt: Hi! I'm going to assume you've read the posts up to this. I need to know what your thoughts are on the interactions between the vocal players (myself, Robik, Eden and Pixalated) thus far.
Pixalated - What are your thoughts thus far on Eden?
Okay, Robik, that's all well and good that you normally look at insignificant details in absence of more plausible explanations. My vote isn't (necessarily) going to stay on you for the reads; early game does depend on throwing shit out and seeing whether or not it sticks, after all. We have time to see what you do from here. I'm a little willing to accept the argument that you're putting yourself out there a lot and making yourself commit to positions that would be a little awkward to retract as mafia, but I'll need to see more to determine how valid that argument is.
What's sticking out is your "Do it instead of say it" mentality toward OK. I completely agree with it. The problem is (a) OnceKing is doing it, by trying to convince people to accept his attitude toward lurkers he's creating an environment that will allow him to push the lurker lynch once it comes up should it come up; and (b) you're not taking your own advice, asking people to pressure others and telling people to do instead of say and then not voting your scum read.
It's also strange to me that you say my thoughts are logical but my conclusion is wrong. That can only be true if I'm missing a crucial piece of information that would change the logic of my thoughts and lead me to the right conclusion. Obviously to an extent I am since I don't have your alignment, but assuming you are town, there should be a town explanation for the discrepancy between "do don't say" and not voting the scumread. What is it?
On March 26 2014 14:13 Eden1892 wrote: Okay, Robik, that's all well and good that you normally look at insignificant details in absence of more plausible explanations. My vote isn't (necessarily) going to stay on you for the reads; early game does depend on throwing shit out and seeing whether or not it sticks, after all. We have time to see what you do from here. I'm a little willing to accept the argument that you're putting yourself out there a lot and making yourself commit to positions that would be a little awkward to retract as mafia, but I'll need to see more to determine how valid that argument is.
What's sticking out is your "Do it instead of say it" mentality toward OK. I completely agree with it. The problem is (a) OnceKing is doing it, by trying to convince people to accept his attitude toward lurkers he's creating an environment that will allow him to push the lurker lynch once it comes up should it come up; and (b) you're not taking your own advice, asking people to pressure others and telling people to do instead of say and then not voting your scum read.
It's also strange to me that you say my thoughts are logical but my conclusion is wrong. That can only be true if I'm missing a crucial piece of information that would change the logic of my thoughts and lead me to the right conclusion. Obviously to an extent I am since I don't have your alignment, but assuming you are town, there should be a town explanation for the discrepancy between "do don't say" and not voting the scumread. What is it?
1) I disagree with your assessment that OK is doing and not just saying. You could make the same claim that he's not practicing what he's preaching because he's not voting a quiet person and he's voting one of the most vocal people in the game.
2) It's going to be difficult for you to just trust me on this, but I don't always throw out my vote on someone who I have a scumread on, so if you want, go read foundations. I called out Joey for stuff that wasn't all that significant to begin with and the read kept growing and growing and then I was the last person to vote on him d1 (a vote that failed because two other townies swtiched to the other wagon at the last second). I like to get my thoughts out there and explain them, which is exactly what I've been doing. Me not placing a vote 40 hours before end of day doesn't mean dick. There's a ton of other stuff that can happen between now and then.
3) The crucial piece of information that you're missing is that you've never played with me before. Thus it's logical that you would draw these wrong conclusions about my play because you don't know what a town or mafia game from me looks like.
I think you're misunderstanding OK's policy. "Preferentially lynch lurkers" means "lynch a lurker in absence of other considerations." In economics we use the phrase ceteris paribus -- all else the same -- meaning that all other variables equal you lynch a lurker. Essentially if you and I were the wagons, I had like 4 posts the whole game and you had, Iunno, 400 posts, and OK felt we were equally scum (or at least that the differences were inconsequential), he would kill me over you. There's nowhere to put his vote right now to satisfy this because we don't have multiple scum players of variable activity levels.
It's fine that you don't vote your scum read right off the bat, it's just weird to me that you criticize OK for not voting an inactive when you've just acknowledged there are extenuating circumstances to the very principle you're using to criticize him.
And I'm not talking about meta arguments here; that's just moving the issue back a step. The question isn't "do you do this as town?" it's "why do you do this as town?" Talk to me a little bit about the rationale behind your approach to the game; I'm feeling better here but I want to get in your head a little more before I pull my vote.
On March 26 2014 14:26 Eden1892 wrote: I think you're misunderstanding OK's policy. "Preferentially lynch lurkers" means "lynch a lurker in absence of other considerations." In economics we use the phrase ceteris paribus -- all else the same -- meaning that all other variables equal you lynch a lurker. Essentially if you and I were the wagons, I had like 4 posts the whole game and you had, Iunno, 400 posts, and OK felt we were equally scum (or at least that the differences were inconsequential), he would kill me over you. There's nowhere to put his vote right now to satisfy this because we don't have multiple scum players of variable activity levels.
It's fine that you don't vote your scum read right off the bat, it's just weird to me that you criticize OK for not voting an inactive when you've just acknowledged there are extenuating circumstances to the very principle you're using to criticize him.
And I'm not talking about meta arguments here; that's just moving the issue back a step. The question isn't "do you do this as town?" it's "why do you do this as town?" Talk to me a little bit about the rationale behind your approach to the game; I'm feeling better here but I want to get in your head a little more before I pull my vote.
Based off of the 2 newbie games that I've played, the mafia were definitely people that posted only a couple times in the days. I assume that is where OK's "policy" is coming from. Thus, I don't feel ceteris paribus really holds any weight.
Regardless: my stance is that while I'm actively trying to pressure people and clear people, he's talking about the mechanics of what he'd like to do and not actually doing it. I didn't read what he said as him "trying to get people on board." I don't think that voting someone is as indicative of trying to get someone lynched as putting forth a case -- which is what I feel I did. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I need to reread and reconsider. It was my initial impression. I like that he's been asking people for their opinions of the whole situation, that reads townie, but I don't like that he hasn't really made his opinions felt up to this point.
As for getting in my head and explaining why I do what I do. I do it because I believe it. If I read someone as town, even off of something minor, then I'm going to vocalize it. I'm going to do the same thing if I think something is scummy. Me voting or not voting doesn't indicate anything. I'm pushing. I'm giving reads. That's what I'm doing. Sometimes I'll make a play and say something I don't believe in to gauge reaction and see if someone sheeps something for poor reasoning (like I did in the first newbie game I played here on n1ko), but most of the time, everything that I write will be 100% genuine. Up to this point, I stand by everything that I have written.
On March 26 2014 13:47 Eden1892 wrote: Other quick thoughts:
- Pixalated is correct to point out that OK brought the game out of the joke phase and now that I'm reading his last couple posts I'm nodding in agreement. Slight town lean because his thought process is following mine pretty well. Wouldn't clear him based off that but it's fine for a few hours in. - OnceKing town lean for now, moved the game out of the joke phase, Robik tried pushing an opportunistic lynch on him; I think Robik is scum and busing his teammate so early is stupid. - Cavalinho arguably looks worse than Robik for just echoing Robik's bad points and promising to go reread an old game then not posting any findings.
And also because I got caught up playing Epicmafia at the same time.
Looking over OK's last accusatory post, it looks quite a bit like what he was doing last game. He's pointing fingers and doing things that are generally pretty pro town. His start was weird, but I don't really have any real reason to think he's mafia right now, especially after all those explanations and actions. Seems townie, getting information and generally being one of those obvious town players.
While we're on that topic, I can say that Robik's townreads tend to come early and often, sometimes on what can be perceived to be weird reasoning. That last game we all played together (speaking specifically to you, OK) he townread me because I OMGUS'd him like 20 minutes in or something. He wound up being such a strong player that he was shot N1. Look back on that and ask yourself if he's acting the same way as he did then, because from what I've seen, he makes his mind up pretty quickly and even had his vote wind up on scum. He seems townie thus far.
Also, I'm going to #Unvote because we're actually playing the game and solving the mystery.
I don't think you understood my point re: OK, but... it's okay. :rimshot: This isn't going to be productive much longer in my view. I got what I needed to get. We're coming from different points of view on different aspects of the game; that's not alignment-indicative and your forthrightness in explaining yourself (after putting yourself out there so openly) was exactly what I wanted to see.
Robik is town, guys. You need to move off of him and find a real target.
##UNVOTE IAmRobik
Fortunately, I have one.
Cavalinho was blatantly riffing off of Robik's emphatic response to OK's post. I think it's textbook mafia play just to follow an enthusiastic town player like he's done. His questions to OK sucked and reeked of someone trying too hard to find fault with something that isn't faulty.
And Robik's right. Do, don't say. I don't give a damn if you tell us you're going to look at OK's previous games to "see if he did any weird shit like this before."
No, I'm not. I'm not surprised that you would egregiously mischaracterize my argument instead of addressing it, but that doesn't mean it goes away.
What OnceKing did wasn't "weird" at all. You kept and keep pushing the idea that it is while refusing to talk about how it's weird or how it being weird matters. It reeks of someone trying to spread doubt and confusion instead of clarifying the game state. Your questioning him was awkward and looked like you were trying to look like you were getting something done without really doing anything helpful. You haven't been trying to help us find scum, you've just been making unhelpful comments about how weird someone's play is or references to past games that we aren't playing.
On March 26 2014 15:46 Eden1892 wrote: No, I'm not. I'm not surprised that you would egregiously mischaracterize my argument instead of addressing it, but that doesn't mean it goes away.
What OnceKing did wasn't "weird" at all. You kept and keep pushing the idea that it is while refusing to talk about how it's weird or how it being weird matters. It reeks of someone trying to spread doubt and confusion instead of clarifying the game state. Your questioning him was awkward and looked like you were trying to look like you were getting something done without really doing anything helpful. You haven't been trying to help us find scum, you've just been making unhelpful comments about how weird someone's play is or references to past games that we aren't playing.
Ok, so helping trying to mark two other players as town isn't helping find scum. I'm guessing process of elimination doesn't really help finding scum at all then.
I also love how you're saying OK's start wasn't weird, since that's basically what kicked off Robik v OK in the first place. I wasn't even the only one that thought that, but you just think you're right because I agree with someone rather than coming up with ideas myself. How do you expect to coalesce votes and take someone out at the end of the day if you're just going to try to vote off people that like and agree with what others are saying?
Furthermore, I am addressing your argument. You say my reactions are fake and that I'm trying to spread confusion. Gauging reactions is basically your own PoV assessment, so all I can tell you is that you're wrong and hopefully you'll just catch on on your own. Spreading confusion is...I don't even understand what you're trying to say here. It's like...I don't understand what's going on, and so I ask questions and that's spreading confusion...Somehow.
Your case couldn't be more off the mark if you wanted it to be.
OK town, so Cavalinho is either terrible at reading comprehension or trying to distort what I'm saying. Let's review.
Again it's not that he said OnceKing's start was weird, it's that he didn't do anything to figure out why it was weird or tell us how it was weird. He asked OK why OK made a post about policy lynching lurkers, OK said it was to get the town out of RVS. That's not weird. Cavalinho didn't bother to respond to him and then kept repeating himself about how weird it was. No explanation as to why or how that's weird, no attempt to develop OK's response, nothing.
His questions didn't have any apparent direction or purpose to them. He asked OK why OK made the post, OK gave a good answer aaaand... Cavalinho drops it like a hot potato. No follow up? Nothing? Why are we supposed to be convinced that OK is weird or scum or whatever when you're just asking questions to ask them and not developing any insights from them? He asserts that he was asking questions because he didn't understand what was going on, but you'll notice that he doesn't acknowledge OK's answer at all. Instead he starts playing reactively, answering OK's questions and then dropping the line of discussion. That's not what people do when they're trying to understand what's going on. He vaguely talks around the issue right before I prodded him, saying that he thinks OK's start was still weird, but that he "[doesn't] have any real reason to think [OK] is mafia" because of his "last accusatory post" (what post is this?) and he "seems townie, getting information and generally being one of those obvious town players" (this doesn't actually say anything about why he doesn't think OK is mafia; we know that he wouldn't think that because he thinks OK seems town, why does he?)
I also happen to think his OMGUS vote is him trying to look innocent because he's aware of his meta (not the post beforehand he noted that Robik townread him in a previous game because he OMGUS'd then), but that can go either way. What's telling is that he fails to develop his vote, he just puts it down and insists it'll be me or him today. That's dumb and not what a town player should be doing.
On March 26 2014 08:06 OnceKing wrote: Aha. Sqrt with the real dirt and LT lying. Lynch all liars! Therefore,
##VOTE Lord Tolkien
technically we're both right.
My renewed OK scum sense is tingling.
#unvote sqrtofneg1 # vote OnceKing
When I read it the first time I thought he was saying his scum sense was OK. Now I realize OK = OnceKing and I guess OnceKing was scum in a previous game? Anyways this failed vote was followed by OnceKing posting his Lynch All Lurkers proposal, and then Lord Tolkien fixed his vote and commented on the proposal...
[B]On March 26 2014 08:50 Lord Tolkien wrote: Given the past mafia game I play with you guys in, the lurkers were all mafia, I agree with that.
No reason to let them lurk for free.
There's a bit of a disconnect between thinking lynch all lurkers is a good proposal and thinking OnceKing is scum when OnceKing is the one proposing lynch all lurkers. The vote and the proposal are both happening at the same time.
People he challenges: Cavalinho IAmRobik Pixalated Valenius, Cavalinho, LT, RJ, sqrt
The fearless really came out in the "truth or dare" with Cavalinho.
I also think the Lynch all Lurkers proposal comes from a town mindset.
1. It is likely to help the town. I'd guess that lynching from my "no opinion / weak lean / under the radar" set would have better results than lynching my strongest scum read today. How good could my scum read be today? But the under the radar guy today will probably be under the radar tomorrow and it won't get easier to lynch him.
2. It predictably drew negative attention. I think scum would instinctively know that having ideas is trouble.
So who posts a proposal that could help the town but not the poster? Only somebody who thought it was worth it... town.
I don't put a ton of weight on it but that's where I stand on Lynch all Lurkers.
---
OnceKing's relationship with IAmRobik is worth examining. Robik has told us several times that he's the best. Initiating an attack on such a player would be very dangerous for a hypothetical scum OnceKing. What if Robik becomes a leader? What if he actually is the best? What scum wants that kind of attention? But OnceKing has come at Robik which makes OnceKing less likely to be scum. It would require OnceKing to be making an ego play or for them to be scum / scum.
---
On the flip side, I do wish OnceKing offered conclusions of his own about more players. I know how he feels about Robik, but nobody else. So I can't quite lock him in as 100% to be town yet.
I made written notes about 'interesting' posts. Who said it and what they said. I should have written my snap reactions but I incorrectly thought I would remember those. At the same time I had a rankings list of how town people are. Pixalated was on the very town side of things.
Now I check my notes to post about him and I wonder how in the world I thought that. A really odd disconnect.
I guess this is his best post:
On March 26 2014 13:08 Pixalated wrote: I also don't see why you think Val is town just because he asked onceking to clarify his shit. It was a pretty useless question, it's easy to understand what onceking wanted to achieve with that post - create the atmosphere that no one can lurk and has to post.
But instead all he does is make a rather long post asking about potential situations blabla... When I think that it's pretty clear - if we have a solid read we lynch it, if not we lynch a lurker. Seems like he's trying to be helpful without actually being helpful.
He gets the same credit for challenging Robik. Also some credit for having a coherent thought about a read.
But on a second read my takeaway was I agree with a lot of what Pixalated said but so what? He didn't really do anything or take a stand right or wrong. So I give Pixalated a no opinion.
IAmRobik has told us all he's amazing and he's town. I guess the mafia will tell us with their KP tonight if they agree with both of those. He's playing the game so I won't worry about it further today.
I do wish there was somebody else here to chat with. Even mafia!
I like what Jarvis is doing here so far, but I'm gonna pick a bone over the whole challenging Robik thing; it's more about how and why you challenge than who you challenge. As town or scum I'm not afraid of challenging anybody, for example.
I think your conclusions hold up still because OnceKing and Pixalated have been challenging the right topics along the right lines for town.
So far I'm townreading OnceKing, Robik and Jarvis; scumreading Cavalinho. Gotta find a way to parse through the other four.
On March 26 2014 12:16 Cavalinho wrote: I am also curious about aforementioned shit
The timing is a problem. If Cavalinho had a problem with LAL why didn't he just post it? What was his problem with it anyways? He can't really say:
On March 26 2014 12:44 Cavalinho wrote: OK is...Off. Like, his post is just...weird. I don't really know how to describe it, but it's like he says a thing about policy and it just kinda comes out of nowhere.
On another topic, why is it that you're asking me specifically? Is it because you already knew that I was weirded out by his post?
So why was it a problem again? Cavalinho is firmly on defense and struggling to say anything about anything:
On March 26 2014 12:49 IAmRobik wrote: I ask you because sqrt said he's off to bed and it seems that you and I are the only ones left here.
Back to the topic at hand, why didn't you give a read on the other two and deflect onto a pointless question about why I directed the question AT YOU. If I knew where you stood on people, if you expressed those opinions in the thread, I wouldn't have to ask you, now would I?
OK is on. >.>
In all seriousness, I don't really have any thoughts on sqrt and Val other than the fact that they're both null. Sqrt has been goofing off and Val has said stuff but none of it really feels relevant yet.
and here suddenly he knows why it's a problem... because Robik explained it:
On March 26 2014 13:01 Cavalinho wrote: I'm actually going to agree with Robik. Why would you even bother talking about policy lynching when we're barely one step out of RVS?
Now that I think about it, I'm gonna go check our last game to see if OK did the same weird shit he's doing right now.
When I say struggling... he doesn't have his own thoughts about anything posted. His posts are reactions, deflections, and echoing the thoughts of others.
On March 26 2014 13:08 OnceKing wrote: I talked about policy to bring us out of RVS. Your turn. What do you think of the fact that Robik seems to have so many reads so quickly?
He has outed two reads. I think that hardly constitutes "many reads."
They sound somewhat stretched, but I don't think I'm ready to commit to interrogating anyone on that line of thinking when we have several players that haven't even posted yet.
This post has a significant logic fail. When fewer players have posted having "many reads" makes less sense than when more players have posted. By this point I think Cavalinho is scum and his plan is to echo Robik. How could he get in trouble saying what Robik says? Note this line implies Robik is town.
On March 26 2014 13:12 OnceKing wrote: Oh and here's another fun question for you Cav: Why do you need me to answer your question in order to answer mine? Are we playing truth or dare (without dare)? Are you trying to get out of answering questions until later?
No, I simply felt like you were dodging the question.
OnceKing feels so pure here and Cavalinho is on defense, afraid.
On March 26 2014 13:47 Eden1892 wrote: Other quick thoughts:
- Pixalated is correct to point out that OK brought the game out of the joke phase and now that I'm reading his last couple posts I'm nodding in agreement. Slight town lean because his thought process is following mine pretty well. Wouldn't clear him based off that but it's fine for a few hours in. - OnceKing town lean for now, moved the game out of the joke phase, Robik tried pushing an opportunistic lynch on him; I think Robik is scum and busing his teammate so early is stupid. - Cavalinho arguably looks worse than Robik for just echoing Robik's bad points and promising to go reread an old game then not posting any findings.
And also because I got caught up playing Epicmafia at the same time.
Looking over OK's last accusatory post, it looks quite a bit like what he was doing last game. He's pointing fingers and doing things that are generally pretty pro town. His start was weird, but I don't really have any real reason to think he's mafia right now, especially after all those explanations and actions. Seems townie, getting information and generally being one of those obvious town players.
While we're on that topic, I can say that Robik's townreads tend to come early and often, sometimes on what can be perceived to be weird reasoning. That last game we all played together (speaking specifically to you, OK) he townread me because I OMGUS'd him like 20 minutes in or something. He wound up being such a strong player that he was shot N1. Look back on that and ask yourself if he's acting the same way as he did then, because from what I've seen, he makes his mind up pretty quickly and even had his vote wind up on scum. He seems townie thus far.
Also, I'm going to #Unvote because we're actually playing the game and solving the mystery.
and now he walks back everything. Everybody is town. People are coming at him and he doesn't call them scum.
Well, until he gets voted. Then Eden is scum and it's a battle to the death.
Cavalinho has been tentative, defensive, echoing and then he got a case from eden and a vote and he switched to aggressive defense.
The way he went after Rubik felt sincere and had logic. Then those two talked it out and he reversed himself. Again, it made sense with the posts. For a scum to make a case and then throw it away would be so wasteful. Especially since OnceKing is voting Rubik.
Eden's evolution on Cavalinho was so organic. His post about Cavalinho "arguably even worse" was almost an afterthought when he was on the Rubik warpath but it led him to investigate further.
Eden is willing to take initiative on topics. He has opinions on everybody who has posted enough to be read.
I still need to read the LIII mafia game thoroughly. However.
OnceKing sounds town as all fk. I was originally suspicious of his initial "serious" post due to OK's early Day 1 behavior versus early Day 1 LII newbie mafia game and was going to comment on it, but I re-read the old thread and reversed my initial opinion on it (originally thought it was inconsistent, but I reread his case on Amiko and it didn't mention the lurker lynch policy). He's been pushing town towards active discussion since then, asking for reads, and generally steering conversation towards positive goals, so he's establishing himself as town thus far.
IAmRobik also feels town to me, though I still question why he feels OK's post is out of place given the context (unless it was scumbait, that was my first thought). The post is still useful pressure and discussion for town, though, and there is no reason for scum to be so forward, so early on in the day, especially with the possible game-states (no godfather game-state). And his posts subsequent read fairly town.
Valenius is super town in my eyes, he's cleared for me.
Pixelated is neutral or slightly scummy to me.
Eden feels even more town for me. He's actively pushing the Cavalinho case and scumhunting aggressively in Day 1, while being the most active contributor to the thread thus far. Clearest town poster in my mind, as he's giving reasoned arguments here.
Cavalinho sounds...well, aggressive in all his posts. And he's OMGUSing without presenting a case, period. But given his past game behavior, he also does this when he's town so I'm not sure if my scrumread on him is wrong. Like, this is almost a repeat of LII Day 1 in terms of the Cavalinho lynch progression, however without any substance from him. I'm leaving him as possible scum atm tho I'm confused by it. Maybe the most scummiest read I have, even his past town play aside. Like
I'll answer your question when you answer mine.
and
No, I simply felt like you were dodging the question.
should mark him as clear scum, but...might just be his playstyle.
I also happen to think his OMGUS vote is him trying to look innocent because he's aware of his meta (not the post beforehand he noted that Robik townread him in a previous game because he OMGUS'd then), but that can go either way. What's telling is that he fails to develop his vote, he just puts it down and insists it'll be me or him today. That's dumb and not what a town player should be doing.
This is actually a strong analysis of what I was trying to say.
You know what, Cavalinho isn't angry and pissed off enough to have the righteous indignation like his LII newbie game, nor still tries to contribute. Or hell, contribute an actual case for his OMGUSing.
sqrtofneg1 has thus far been fairly disconcerting to me. I indulged him with the Hearthstone convo, and I think that's irrelevant to the thread thus far. It was a fair shot at getting something going, if inflating his filter/post. After the first actual serious post to pop up Day 1 (the OK policy lynch), he posted this
Fun fact: I've been mafia once, only once, in my fair amount of irl games.
and didn't respond to the looming topic at hand, then had a sleep post. Like, its non-contributive lurking at best. There was definitely things available to comment on at the time of his sleep post. Hell, by the time of that post, IAmRobik had already made his wtf post about OnceKing's lynch policy post. It piggybacks off IAmRobik's joke posts, but he at least follows up with substance after there's clearly something to respond to. He still has time to become an active contributor, but seems to be a scum lurker to me. Probably my primary lynch target today because I'm still fking confused by the signals given off by Cavalinho's playstyle and posting patterns.
On March 26 2014 13:31 IAmRobik wrote: RE: Sqrt
In what world does a mafia come into the game and start talking to himself for 10 posts? Mafia has all the reason in the world to sit back and not do shit and contribute when something is happening and then push some random town who is on the chopping blocks. I don't give a damn if it was 10 posts of filler about how he's doing today and how his HS run was going.
The exact same reason you were pushing on OK for: because it's good to make the appearance of contribution. idgaf about the HS posts too much, but the fact he continued the joke posting and made a sleep post before contributing anything useful makes me unhappy.
Quick point to RolandJarvis before the plunge, that was a continued joke post. I was jokingly referencing the LII newbie game where I was OMGUSing OK hard for focusing on me Day 1 (mostly for some inconsistencies in his case). Posted that and the correction right as OK was posting the policy lynch post (note the policy lynch post being nestled between that post and the edit), which is the first serious post of the game, which should have been a clue. I'm overall happy with your contribution, however, and I would recommend you read the LII newbie game, since quite a few of the players here were in that game (and should give you a general idea of our playstyles as town (I think all of us present played as town that game), so you can get a feel for us. You voiced the concern about OK only voicing his read on IAmRobik, but his playstyle is (at least, going off his LII and stated gameplay) to only give his strongest reads. So this isn't inconsistent or scummy for me, just how he plays. Just like how Cavalinho still confuses the fk out of me.
Or you might have and the mistaken use of punctuation in the post confused you.
Overall, I'm quite happy with the way this thread activity has been. no ded gaem
Also, my sleep schedule is fked up, so I may be responding at odd times such as this.
Jarvis is my strongest town read (besides myself durp) followed by OnceKing/Robik (equal).
Of the Inaktiv Fukstix Brigade I think I townread Valenius the most for questioning OK about his lurker policy, but I wouldn't clear him for it alone. I'm optimistic about him though, what little he's done has been solid and on-point. Just need to see more to be sure. Next is probably Pixalated because again, he's been on the right side (fmpov) of the "is OK weird" event. But that's not enough to clear him either. sqrt's opening was amusing and as a player having fun with the game I liked it, but it's obviously not telling me anything. Tolkein I can't remember saying anything of substance yet.
I think between you and Eden, you've put up a very convincing case. And he clearly isn't pissed off enough about the whole lynching affair. There hasn't been a swear word or insult yet! + Show Spoiler +
At this stage my top scum reads are sqrt (I think he was in the LIII game, so I need to read that to gauge him fully), and Cavalinho.
To both Cavalinho and sqrt, who do you think is scum?
Highlights of my concerns: - Reads on Valenius and Pixalated. ...how? Valenius asked some good questions to develop OnceKing's policy, but that's all. Certainly a good start but not nearly enough to declare him "super town" or "cleared." Especially in light of the fact that he said Pixalated is neutral-to-scummy... I have Pixalated as neutral-to-town if anything, but to be honest they've done virtually the same thing here (not post much, make solid contributions where they did). There's a lack of explanation for either read, which on its own doesn't say much, but... - Has already managed to place almost everyone's alignments. He's got the ones I think are fairly obvious (myself, OnceKing, Robik), but then all of the low posters/unknowns that I have, he's already decided on them being town (Valenius) or worrying-to-scummy (sqrt, Pixalated), and I just don't see how he's managed to do that already. One thing that I've observed in my past games, across multiple groups/metas, is that mafia posting early reads lists like this tend to do one of two things: they either betray their knowledge of the gamestate by not being hesitant enough to declare people unknowns, or they overcompensate for their knowledge by trying to appear as lost as they can. In Tolkein's case I get the sense that his reads are a little too solid (e.g. Pixalated, Valenius). - His position on Cavalinho is inconsistently soft wrt the rest of his list. Notice the "almost" above -- the one big exception is the guy that I personally think is obviously scum. He does some lip service to the idea (e.g. "these things should mark him clear scum"), but then handwaves every point he raises for Cavalinho on a shaky meta argument (e.g. "mark him as clear scum, but... might just be his playstyle). He says Cavalinho is "maybe the most scummiest read he has"*, but then declares sqrt his "probable" lynch target today. There's a lot of waffling on Cavalinho that isn't present with the others. (PREVIEW EDIT: Even concedes the case is strong, but still has sqrt as his top suspect. p l s) - His rationale for sqrt is weak. Of a handful of inactives so far he's singling out one post of sqrt's (the "I've never drawn mafia" post) as the thing that's so disconcerting to him? Already zeroed in on sqrt being a scum lurker and wants to lynch him over aforesaid "maybe most scummiest read"*? That's just strange to me because nothing that sqrt has done has been alignment-indicative yet. - Preview edit point: That last question is such a softball! Ideal to ask your fake scum read and your scum buddy, terrible as town. Why wouldn't he ask about the things Cavalinho and sqrt are doing that makes them suspicious to him?
*: minor point and not at all a linchpin in my case on him, but the double superlative looks really hard like he's overcompensating his suspicion to distance slightly, even as he says to lynch someone else
Tolkein right now reads pretty strongly like Cavalinho's partner, trying to deflect suspicion away from him with a weak, waffling concession and focus it on sqrt, who's low-hanging fruit right now. I think I still want Cavalinho more for D1 but either of them would be great and I want both out at some point (preferably "before we lose").
Hey Tolkien, how is Val 'super town in my eyes, he's cleared for me.' He has posted like one post that isn't fluff, and you clear him based off just that? Is that because everyone here is reading him as town for some reason? (I don't see why but okay)
I agree with Eden's post about him. Furthermore from what I remember from reading his previous game (the one he mentioned) he was ALOT more active as compared to this. I will go take a peek at his filter there in abit.
@Tolkien Why am I neutral/slightly scummy? Elaborate please.
In response to Onceking's question before I left - Eden is town. His logic is sound, I agree with his reads, and I like how he pressured Robik.
The one thing that I can agree with LT about is the sqrts thing. Upon my reread of the thread I noted that he left AFTER onceking started talking policy and Robik started pressuring him (I initially thought that he left before). I find it odd that he didn't take the time to make at least a quick comment on it before going to sleep. Still, it isn't enough to judge imo, and I find it oddly suspicious how he reads him to be scummier than Cav, who has had some very faulty logic (will get to that in abit).
- Reads on Valenius and Pixalated. ...how? Valenius asked some good questions to develop OnceKing's policy, but that's all. Certainly a good start but not nearly enough to declare him "super town" or "cleared." Especially in light of the fact that he said Pixalated is neutral-to-scummy... I have Pixalated as neutral-to-town if anything, but to be honest they've done virtually the same thing here (not post much, make solid contributions where they did). There's a lack of explanation for either read, which on its own doesn't say much, but...
ZzZ. I knew I should've tried posting that part some other time. Or maybe I should've approached it with more subtlety (see: any subtlety at all).
Was trying to scumbait with it when questioning Cavalinho and sqrt. Was trying to see if they would piggyback off of it. Went back and deleted those sections specifically to try.
My true reads: Valenius leans town at best. I'm hesitant to call him anything at this stage of the game, when his only post is at best asking for a PAINFULLY obvious clarification on a policy. Or in other words, in line with what everyone else has said.
Pixelated is leaning town. He's had more posts and has given reads on sqrt and Valenius, but the main crux of their points have been similar to what OK and others in the thread have said (not much to be said this early into the game, however). He was however the first to defend OK's post (outside of OK), and rightly so. If we're continuing with the Cavalinho lynch, it is...unlikely for them to simultaneously bandwagon on a possible lynch and defend the person in question.
- His position on Cavalinho is inconsistently soft wrt the rest of his list. Notice the "almost" above -- the one big exception is the guy that I personally think is obviously scum. He does some lip service to the idea (e.g. "these things should mark him clear scum"), but then handwaves every point he raises for Cavalinho on a shaky meta argument (e.g. "mark him as clear scum, but... might just be his playstyle). He says Cavalinho is "maybe the most scummiest read he has"*, but then declares sqrt his "probable" lynch target today. There's a lot of waffling on Cavalinho that isn't present with the others. (PREVIEW EDIT: Even concedes the case is strong, but still has sqrt as his top suspect. p l s)
This is again going off of my experience with Cavalinho in LII, though the more you prod, the more I think you may be right about me softballing Cavalinho. I may be trying to discern too much off meta, and am letting how LII Day 1 went color my view of the game and his (pretty scummy) actions too much.
- His rationale for sqrt is weak. Of a handful of inactives so far he's singling out one post of sqrt's (the "I've never drawn mafia" post) as the thing that's so disconcerting to him? Already zeroed in on sqrt being a scum lurker and wants to lynch him over aforesaid "maybe most scummiest read"*? That's just strange to me because nothing that sqrt has done has been alignment-indicative yet.
As I EXPLICITLY note, it was posted AFTER the serious posting began, and AFTER IAmRobik's wtf on OK. The timestamp is key: if it were before that, and even OK's post, whatever. idgaf because that was part of the joke phase. That's what I find the most disconcerting of his posting, versus Valenius (whose post at least addressed something serious).
- Preview edit point: That last question is such a softball! Ideal to ask your fake scum read and your scum buddy, terrible as town. Why wouldn't he ask about the things Cavalinho and sqrt are doing that makes them suspicious to him?
My main issue with sqrt again is the timing of his post and decision to start lurking at that juncture, which makes me far more leery of him over Valenius. Look at the time stamps: 3.5 hours between OK's post and Valenius's question and his sleep post, 4 minutes between Robik's wtf post and his highlighted post, and 11 minutes between the post I highlighted and his sleep post. Certainly there's time to post...something serious? When we had clearly moved past the jokes votes?
Putting him among my top scum reads is/was a means to pressure him into posting something of value and see if he posts anything that makes me pursue that line of inquiry. Similarly, the main thing which Cavalinho isn't doing is giving anything of substance in his posts. This is also why I was posting a full reads list, to see if there was any piggybacking going on.
OK town, so Cavalinho is either terrible at reading comprehension or trying to distort what I'm saying. Let's review.
Again it's not that he said OnceKing's start was weird, it's that he didn't do anything to figure out why it was weird or tell us how it was weird. He asked OK why OK made a post about policy lynching lurkers, OK said it was to get the town out of RVS. That's not weird. Cavalinho didn't bother to respond to him and then kept repeating himself about how weird it was. No explanation as to why or how that's weird, no attempt to develop OK's response, nothing.
His questions didn't have any apparent direction or purpose to them. He asked OK why OK made the post, OK gave a good answer aaaand... Cavalinho drops it like a hot potato. No follow up? Nothing? Why are we supposed to be convinced that OK is weird or scum or whatever when you're just asking questions to ask them and not developing any insights from them? He asserts that he was asking questions because he didn't understand what was going on, but you'll notice that he doesn't acknowledge OK's answer at all. Instead he starts playing reactively, answering OK's questions and then dropping the line of discussion. That's not what people do when they're trying to understand what's going on. He vaguely talks around the issue right before I prodded him, saying that he thinks OK's start was still weird, but that he "[doesn't] have any real reason to think [OK] is mafia" because of his "last accusatory post" (what post is this?) and he "seems townie, getting information and generally being one of those obvious town players" (this doesn't actually say anything about why he doesn't think OK is mafia; we know that he wouldn't think that because he thinks OK seems town, why does he?)
I also happen to think his OMGUS vote is him trying to look innocent because he's aware of his meta (not the post beforehand he noted that Robik townread him in a previous game because he OMGUS'd then), but that can go either way. What's telling is that he fails to develop his vote, he just puts it down and insists it'll be me or him today. That's dumb and not what a town player should be doing.
If you are scumbaiting why are you revealing your trap before they even have the chance to fall for it?
Since Eden explicitly called out for those reads (like I said, no subtlety) which defeats the whole purpose, and because I think Eden is correct in pointing out that this is not the right day for these kind of tarps.
I really am not sure about this scumbait play and what it means. On one hand it's an easy way to have a free out after making bad reads and getting called out for it, but it seems really stupid for scum to do, and I am not sure if scum would stick out their head like that.
OnceKing sounds town as all fk. I was originally suspicious of his initial "serious" post due to OK's early Day 1 behavior versus early Day 1 LII newbie mafia game and was going to comment on it, but I re-read the old thread and reversed my initial opinion on it (originally thought it was inconsistent, but I reread his case on Amiko and it didn't mention the lurker lynch policy). He's been pushing town towards active discussion since then, asking for reads, and generally steering conversation towards positive goals, so he's establishing himself as town thus far.
IAmRobik also feels town to me, though I still question why he feels OK's post is out of place given the context (unless it was scumbait, that was my first thought). The post is still useful pressure and discussion for town, though, and there is no reason for scum to be so forward, so early on in the day, especially with the possible game-states (no godfather game-state). And his posts subsequent read fairly town.
Actually can you explain this. You say you yourself feel suspicious of OK's first post, yet you yourself ask why Robik thinks its out of place???
On March 26 2014 06:31 Lord Tolkien wrote: ZzZ. I knew I should've tried posting that part some other time. Or maybe I should've approached it with more subtlety (see: any subtlety at all).
Was trying to scumbait with it when questioning Cavalinho and sqrt. Was trying to see if they would piggyback off of it. Went back and deleted those sections specifically to try.
My true reads: Valenius leans town at best. I'm hesitant to call him anything at this stage of the game, when his only post is at best asking for a PAINFULLY obvious clarification on a policy. Or in other words, in line with what everyone else has said.
Pixelated is leaning town. He's had more posts and has given reads on sqrt and Valenius, but the main crux of their points have been similar to what OK and others in the thread have said (not much to be said this early into the game, however). He was however the first to defend OK's post (outside of OK), and rightly so. If we're continuing with the Cavalinho lynch, it is...unlikely for them to simultaneously bandwagon on a possible lynch and defend the person in question.
On March 26 2014 20:46 Lord Tolkien wrote: Since Eden explicitly called out for those reads (like I said, no subtlety) which defeats the whole purpose, and because I think Eden is correct in pointing out that this is not the right day for these kind of tarps.
Yeah I'm not buying this. Five problems here, folks: - The timing. His post setting the "trap" came over 20 minutes after the post containing the "bait," and the "trap" is at the end. Looks like an afterthought. I'm not convinced it's the result of prior planning. - The mechanism. He's essentially saying he was setting up a reaction test. There are four components that have to be in any reaction test: targets, purpose, rationale and conclusions. His targets are clear (his two scum reads) and his purpose is ostensibly credible (try to see if they sheep his reads). The problem is that this isn't alignment-indicative. Sometimes town accidentally sheep other people. Sometimes they even purposefully do. That alone doesn't tell us anything. Thus his conclusion from the test would have to be that it's null. That's not a good test and strong reason to think it wasn't a test at all. - The actual reads he's now giving. His Valenius read is in his own words "in line with what everyone else has said," and his Pixalated read is based entirely off of things that Pixalated said AFTER his "bait" post. In other words, he lied about what his Pixalated read was in his initial post because it's built entirely on posts made after the initial post. He cannot have read Pixalated town in his "bait" post because Pixalated commented on sqrt: Pixalated hadn't commented on sqrt yet! - The decision to reveal the trap so early. He wasn't under any obligation to reply to me until the trap was sprung. I can't see any reason why a town player would do this. I can see why a mafia player would do it, overestimating the extent to which he's under suspicion and feeling the need to concede more than necessary in order to shake suspicion starting to turn his way. But I can't see why a town player wouldn't simply ignore my comments about the different components of the trap until after the trap has been sprung. - The slip in the followup post. I never said anything about whether this is the right or wrong day. Looks to me like lies are piling up on top of lies here.
On March 26 2014 06:31 Lord Tolkien wrote: As I EXPLICITLY note, it was posted AFTER the serious posting began, and AFTER IAmRobik's wtf on OK. The timestamp is key: if it were before that, and even OK's post, whatever. idgaf because that was part of the joke phase. That's what I find the most disconcerting of his posting, versus Valenius (whose post at least addressed something serious).
It was also right before he went to sleep. Yeah, it's not a constructive post. That's not automatically scum, especially in isolation.
Tolkein, you have one chance to explain why you lied about your Pixalated read from your bait post before we just kill you today and sort out Cavalinho tomorrow.
Actually can you explain this. You say you yourself feel suspicious of OK's first post, yet you yourself ask why Robik thinks its out of place???
I was initially suspicious because in LII he started a case against Amiko for a post which included a lurker lynching policy, and thought it was inconsistent.
Upon reread, he had no qualms about the lynching policy and it was myself and Cavalinho who pointed out the policy, his focus was on the fluff.
I should have clarified, you are correct.
As I said, I have probably been trying to rely too much on meta.
- The actual reads he's now giving. His Valenius read is in his own words "in line with what everyone else has said," and his Pixalated read is based entirely off of things that Pixalated said AFTER his "bait" post. In other words, he lied about what his Pixalated read was in his initial post because it's built entirely on posts made after the initial post. He cannot have read Pixalated town in his "bait" post because Pixalated commented on sqrt: Pixalated hadn't commented on sqrt yet!
I don't like how he cleared both sqrt and val. Already explained why I don't feel that Val's questions make him town, and sqrt posting random stuff doesn't mean much.
What this means about his alignment I'm not sure. Could be mafia trying to get cred by claiming that people are townie and having 'right' reads when they flip.
This was again in line with what OnceKing said about sqrt and Robik's clearing of him based on sqrt's long string of multi-posts on HS.
It was also right before he went to sleep. Yeah, it's not a constructive post. That's not automatically scum, especially in isolation.
He had 3 and a half hours to respond after Valenius brought up his question, and 15 minutes for a something on the IAmRobik wtf post. And he made an irrelevant joke post long past the joking stage. This is why I find it suspicious, because there's AMPLE time to make something at least tangentially relevant instead of a useless throwaway line then another sleep post.
Everything else I've already explained previously. You can disagree with my reasoning.
On March 26 2014 21:25 Valenius wrote: Just so people dont think ivw run away~
Im still here reading stuff, but at work so not enough time to post on it! Ill be home in like 6 hours (hopefully)
Alright, give some quick impressions of the events so far in that case. Who would you like to lynch? Don't need to be too detailed if you are busy right now, but some intial impressions would be nice.
I don't like how he cleared both sqrt and val. Already explained why I don't feel that Val's questions make him town, and sqrt posting random stuff doesn't mean much.
This was again in line with what OnceKing said about sqrt and Robik's clearing of him based on sqrt's long string of multi-posts on HS.
That is not a read on sqrt.
This is:
On March 26 2014 20:29 Pixalated wrote: The one thing that I can agree with LT about is the sqrts thing. Upon my reread of the thread I noted that he left AFTER onceking started talking policy and Robik started pressuring him (I initially thought that he left before). I find it odd that he didn't take the time to make at least a quick comment on it before going to sleep. Still, it isn't enough to judge imo, and I find it oddly suspicious how he reads him to be scummier than Cav, who has had some very faulty logic (will get to that in abit).
This is also after you said he gave a read on sqrt.
I'm not convinced and neither should be anyone else.
TOWN: Who should we kill first, Cavalinho or Lord Tolkein? This is important. Cavalinho and Lord Tolkein need not reply.
On March 26 2014 21:13 Pixalated wrote: In that case why are you suspicious about Robik having the same reservations as you? You aren't answering the question.
I'm now probably spending too much time talking about something that happened in another game, but I had confused his opposition to Amiko's fluff in his introduction post to an opposition to a lurker lynch policy, which would have been inconsistent. It was a suspicion based off meta, and something which I had misremembered.
Robik's main argument is that he's just talking about lynching lurkers as opposed to actually doing it, and that he's speaking to the mechanics of it.
You don't have to set that shit up with a post about how you want to go on quiet people.
I disagree with that, as agreeing to a policy lynch as a group is still good in a newbie game, and given the purpose was to start a serious discussion.
I don't like how he cleared both sqrt and val. Already explained why I don't feel that Val's questions make him town, and sqrt posting random stuff doesn't mean much.
This was again in line with what OnceKing said about sqrt and Robik's clearing of him based on sqrt's long string of multi-posts on HS.
That is not a read on sqrt.
I read that post as a read. He states that sqrt shouldn't have been cleared so quickly as town for making that long stream of posts early on, and that sqrt is difficult to read because he posted nothing but random crap. I call that, broadly, a read. And it fit with what OnceKing said about sqrt (in regards to Robik's clearing of him).
sqrt - jokes and one liners during RVS. Lots of 'em. Made no posts afterwards, yet. Mysteriously Robik's got a town read off of that.
Where he got that read from.
At this point we're debating semantics of what constitutes a read.
I can see what LT means by me posting that on sqrt can constitute as a null read. In fact it matches since his next line is how my points were similar to those already in the thread, and my original point was indeed something that wasn't exactly fresh (Onceking said the same thing) whilst sqrt being a little suspicious (what I said later) wasn't mentioned by anyone else if I recall correctly.
The trap thing is still really bad though, and I agree its really suspicious on how fast he revealed it with only me and you pushing him for it so far. Still it sort of makes sense as town to cut his losses on a bad decision, since I believe it would probably have flowed into cav and sqrt simply ignoring his question, and they wouldn't sheep someone under fire. Still a really bad trap of course, but I can sort of see this as really bad town play. I like your point about the time gap between the 'bait' and 'trap' though, and I think thats my biggest gripe with the entire trap thing.
I think he agured the point that I brought up about the contradiction I pointed out pretty well, makes sense.
Cav on the other hand hasn't done much to redeem himself, and I would like to see more from him. (specifically a GOOD explanation on why he found OK's initial post weird)
@LT I dont think you talked about this point that Eden brought up.
The timing. His post setting the "trap" came over 20 minutes after the post containing the "bait," and the "trap" is at the end. Looks like an afterthought. I'm not convinced it's the result of prior planning.
If you can't give a sufficient explanation for this I think I would lynch you instead. If it was preplanned, why wasn't it directly after your first post? Why wait 20 minutes? Why did you have to go read RJ's thoughts on the Cav case before finishing your trap??
On March 26 2014 22:00 Pixalated wrote: Eden which would you prefer? LT I presume?
Yes, for now. Cavalinho's play is more easily excused as incompetent. If as I suspect Lord Tolkein has been lying repeatedly, it is impossible to rationally assume anything but malevolence.
The timing. His post setting the "trap" came over 20 minutes after the post containing the "bait," and the "trap" is at the end. Looks like an afterthought. I'm not convinced it's the result of prior planning.
If you can't give a sufficient explanation for this I think I would lynch you instead. If it was preplanned, why wasn't it directly after your first post? Why wait 20 minutes? Why did you have to go read RJ's thoughts on the Cav case before finishing your trap??
It took me awhile to realize to what you were referring to.
The reads themselves would've been sufficient. I wanted to see if anyone else would parrot it, not just Cav and sqrt.
The questions tacked on afterwards was done specifically in regards to Cav and sqrt as they solidified themselves in my mind as the scummiest players I'm reading, and mostly to encourage them to post something substantive so I can analyze (which is their main problems this turn). This was not an essential part of the scumbait.
On March 26 2014 22:20 Lord Tolkien wrote: The reads themselves would've been sufficient. I wanted to see if anyone else would parrot it, not just Cav and sqrt.
The questions tacked on afterwards was done specifically in regards to Cav and sqrt as they solidified themselves in my mind as the scummiest players I'm reading, and mostly to encourage them to post something substantive so I can analyze (which is their main problems this turn). This was not an essential part of the scumbait.
On March 26 2014 20:31 Lord Tolkien wrote: ZzZ. I knew I should've tried posting that part some other time. Or maybe I should've approached it with more subtlety (see: any subtlety at all).
Was trying to scumbait with it when questioning Cavalinho and sqrt.
Just finished up with reading up to pg 11. Eden super fucking town. As is Roland Jarvis.
Analysis of RJ vs LT Both come into the thread after either a long absence or no posts at all. RJ picks people and analyzes them in several posts. These post flow naturally and feel like they follow some sort of logical progression. The same cannot be said for LT who comes in after an absence and makes one "long" posts that was more summary + meta than discussion of what's going on this game.
On the other hand, he does take a stand on a lot of people, and generally his take is that a lot of people are town. This is pretty townie, especially since he makes it a point to call people town that some people don't even have opinions on.
Just saw the vote counts. We need to make sure that we consolidate wagons by tomorrow morning so that we can have some direction and so that it's not a clusterfuck at the end of the day.
- Reads on Valenius and Pixalated. ...how? Valenius asked some good questions to develop OnceKing's policy, but that's all. Certainly a good start but not nearly enough to declare him "super town" or "cleared." Especially in light of the fact that he said Pixalated is neutral-to-scummy... I have Pixalated as neutral-to-town if anything, but to be honest they've done virtually the same thing here (not post much, make solid contributions where they did). There's a lack of explanation for either read, which on its own doesn't say much, but...
ZzZ. I knew I should've tried posting that part some other time. Or maybe I should've approached it with more subtlety (see: any subtlety at all).
Was trying to scumbait with it when questioning Cavalinho and sqrt. Was trying to see if they would piggyback off of it. Went back and deleted those sections specifically to try.
My true reads: Valenius leans town at best. I'm hesitant to call him anything at this stage of the game, when his only post is at best asking for a PAINFULLY obvious clarification on a policy. Or in other words, in line with what everyone else has said.
Pixelated is leaning town. He's had more posts and has given reads on sqrt and Valenius, but the main crux of their points have been similar to what OK and others in the thread have said (not much to be said this early into the game, however). He was however the first to defend OK's post (outside of OK), and rightly so. If we're continuing with the Cavalinho lynch, it is...unlikely for them to simultaneously bandwagon on a possible lynch and defend the person in question.
- His position on Cavalinho is inconsistently soft wrt the rest of his list. Notice the "almost" above -- the one big exception is the guy that I personally think is obviously scum. He does some lip service to the idea (e.g. "these things should mark him clear scum"), but then handwaves every point he raises for Cavalinho on a shaky meta argument (e.g. "mark him as clear scum, but... might just be his playstyle). He says Cavalinho is "maybe the most scummiest read he has"*, but then declares sqrt his "probable" lynch target today. There's a lot of waffling on Cavalinho that isn't present with the others. (PREVIEW EDIT: Even concedes the case is strong, but still has sqrt as his top suspect. p l s)
This is again going off of my experience with Cavalinho in LII, though the more you prod, the more I think you may be right about me softballing Cavalinho. I may be trying to discern too much off meta, and am letting how LII Day 1 went color my view of the game and his (pretty scummy) actions too much.
- His rationale for sqrt is weak. Of a handful of inactives so far he's singling out one post of sqrt's (the "I've never drawn mafia" post) as the thing that's so disconcerting to him? Already zeroed in on sqrt being a scum lurker and wants to lynch him over aforesaid "maybe most scummiest read"*? That's just strange to me because nothing that sqrt has done has been alignment-indicative yet.
As I EXPLICITLY note, it was posted AFTER the serious posting began, and AFTER IAmRobik's wtf on OK. The timestamp is key: if it were before that, and even OK's post, whatever. idgaf because that was part of the joke phase. That's what I find the most disconcerting of his posting, versus Valenius (whose post at least addressed something serious).
- Preview edit point: That last question is such a softball! Ideal to ask your fake scum read and your scum buddy, terrible as town. Why wouldn't he ask about the things Cavalinho and sqrt are doing that makes them suspicious to him?
My main issue with sqrt again is the timing of his post and decision to start lurking at that juncture, which makes me far more leery of him over Valenius. Look at the time stamps: 3.5 hours between OK's post and Valenius's question and his sleep post, 4 minutes between Robik's wtf post and his highlighted post, and 11 minutes between the post I highlighted and his sleep post. Certainly there's time to post...something serious? When we had clearly moved past the jokes votes?
Putting him among my top scum reads is/was a means to pressure him into posting something of value and see if he posts anything that makes me pursue that line of inquiry. Similarly, the main thing which Cavalinho isn't doing is giving anything of substance in his posts. This is also why I was posting a full reads list, to see if there was any piggybacking going on.
About Cavalinho: I agree that he's suspicious in that he hasn't contributed a lot of original content. However, I disagree with Eden's statement that "blatantly riffing off of Robik" makes him scum. As seen here:
On March 26 2014 12:16 Cavalinho wrote: I am also curious about aforementioned shit
This is just an "me too" post which... doesn't really say a lot about his alignment. I'm most bothered by this:
On March 26 2014 15:26 Cavalinho wrote: No, I am not dealing with this shit a second time.
##Vote Eden1892
One of us is going to be dead by the end of today and it isn't going to be me just because I agreed with someone.
This is an overreaction and he's trying too hard to look like an indignant townie. He did the same thing in a previous game but the context is not the same -- last time he did this by attacking Amiko once Amiko said that he was just agreeing with something other players said before but before this he voices no suspicion of Eden, and in fact this post doesn't really voice suspicion of Eden either! Instead Cavalinho just places down a vote which gets no justification when we're well past so-called RVS. ##VOTE: Cavalinho.
About LT: Gonna have to disagree with you guys, LT made an honest mistake and got impatient in pulling the trigger.
sqrtofneg1 - What do you think of the interactions between IAmRobik, Eden, Cavalinho and Lord Tolkien? Cavalinho - Are you saying that if we lynch you today and you flip town we should lynch Eden? And more pressingly, why shouldn't we lynch you? (don't just say "I'm town") LT - Yes, actually I am getting flashbacks to Cav's mislynch on Day 1 of our last newbie game. But it's been a while and he's aware of his own playstyle. However, here's something interesting. He's brought it down to "me or you". What do you think of this?
The number of people suspicious of (myself included), and voting for, cavalinho is a bit unnerving. I do agree that he's been the scummiest, but I've yet to see someone defend him (other than maybe LT). IDK. I'm getting the heebie jeebies from this.
No, what I meant by "riffing off of Robik" wasn't that he also thought you were weird -- it was the way he expressed it. Here's the progression of events:
- OnceKing posts his lynch-lurker policy - Cavalinho checks in, makes no reference to or comment about the post - Robik says "wtf is this shit?" - Cavalinho says "I am also curious about aforementioned shit" - Robik asks Cavalinho about OK, Cavalinho says "OK is...Off. Like, his post is just...weird. I don't really know how to describe it, but it's like he says a thing about policy and it just kinda comes out of nowhere." - Robik continues to express skepticism/suspicion/etc., drops some curse bombs - Cavalinho: "Why would you even bother talking about policy lynching when we're barely one step out of RVS? Now that I think about it, I'm gonna go check our last game to see if OK did the same weird shit he's doing right now." - After I challenge Robik, Robik's stance on OK softens and he feels more townie about OK - Cavalinho literally in the next post decides that while weird OK is town
Cavalinho doesn't think anything weird about OK's post until after Robik expresses surprise/etc. about it, and then Cavalinho's attitude toward it escalates in hostility as Robik's does, almost lockstep, and then he townreads OK as soon as Robik does. It's really clear that he was just mafia trying to make a mountain out of the molehill of alleged weirdness in OK's opening and that he backed down when Robik stopped worrying so much about it. The tone of his messages on the subject changes exactly like Robik's does.
And then of course his freakout and vote for me was just a really lame effort to mimic the example he raised not the post before where he was townread for OMGUS. Guy hasn't contributed a thing good and has behaved pretty scummy.
I really don't see how LT repeatedly lying is an honest mistake.
On March 26 2014 16:24 Eden1892 wrote: OK town, so Cavalinho is either terrible at reading comprehension or trying to distort what I'm saying. Let's review.
Again it's not that he said OnceKing's start was weird, it's that he didn't do anything to figure out why it was weird or tell us how it was weird. He asked OK why OK made a post about policy lynching lurkers, OK said it was to get the town out of RVS. That's not weird. Cavalinho didn't bother to respond to him and then kept repeating himself about how weird it was. No explanation as to why or how that's weird, no attempt to develop OK's response, nothing.
His questions didn't have any apparent direction or purpose to them. He asked OK why OK made the post, OK gave a good answer aaaand... Cavalinho drops it like a hot potato. No follow up? Nothing? Why are we supposed to be convinced that OK is weird or scum or whatever when you're just asking questions to ask them and not developing any insights from them? He asserts that he was asking questions because he didn't understand what was going on, but you'll notice that he doesn't acknowledge OK's answer at all. Instead he starts playing reactively, answering OK's questions and then dropping the line of discussion. That's not what people do when they're trying to understand what's going on. He vaguely talks around the issue right before I prodded him, saying that he thinks OK's start was still weird, but that he "[doesn't] have any real reason to think [OK] is mafia" because of his "last accusatory post" (what post is this?) and he "seems townie, getting information and generally being one of those obvious town players" (this doesn't actually say anything about why he doesn't think OK is mafia; we know that he wouldn't think that because he thinks OK seems town, why does he?)
I also happen to think his OMGUS vote is him trying to look innocent because he's aware of his meta (not the post beforehand he noted that Robik townread him in a previous game because he OMGUS'd then), but that can go either way. What's telling is that he fails to develop his vote, he just puts it down and insists it'll be me or him today. That's dumb and not what a town player should be doing.
Cavalinho is my best read for mafia right now.
There was no information in the thread besides people goofing off when OK started talking about policy lynching. Why would you need to start talking about policy lynches when the game hasn't even really started yet? That's why his early post feels out of place. Furthermore, why should I press for more information when he has already given a townie answer and then started scumhunting on his own like before? It's like I have to walk you through every single thought that pops into my head.
Also, that point about why I don't think that OK is mafia is really, really dumb. If I think OK is townie, why on earth would I have to give you reasoning as to why he's not mafia? Is it because he can roll both alignments at once?
And the reason I wasn't able to do more scumhunting is because I was sleeping. Unless that's scummy behavior too. And furthermore, if you're going to talk about meta, go ahead and reread my NMM game. I got tunneled out of the game because I sheeped onto a vote. Which is basically the exact same thing that's happening here. Stop trying to create reasoning when there's nothing there. I refuse to get taken out day 1 because someone is trying to make reactions and reasonings where there are none.
Game hasn't started => player makes post which allows people to start talking about something related to the game (start playing the game) => he is scum because it is out of place and a townie would continue bullshitting around instead of trying to talk about something more useful
You're talking around the points I made -- again -- and making really stretched parallels to another game -- again -- in an attempt to distort what I'm saying -- again.
For the rest of the town, here are the issues with Cavalinho's last post: - He's distorting my arguments here. Specifically: he's framing my expectation that his questions have some purpose to them to mean that I expect him to walk us through every thought he has on the game; he's misinterpreting a question I posed ("why does he think OK is not mafia?" into "why does he think OK is mafia?") to avoid answering it; and he's introducing things I didn't talk about at all (him sleeping and not scumhunting as a result) in an effort to garner sympathy or otherwise discredit my arguments. - He's still not explained his vote for me at all. In fact he's claiming to have sheeped onto a vote...? But he's the only one voting for me.
About Cavalinho: I agree that he's suspicious in that he hasn't contributed a lot of original content. However, I disagree with Eden's statement that "blatantly riffing off of Robik" makes him scum. As seen here:
On March 26 2014 15:26 Cavalinho wrote: No, I am not dealing with this shit a second time.
##Vote Eden1892
One of us is going to be dead by the end of today and it isn't going to be me just because I agreed with someone.
This is an overreaction and he's trying too hard to look like an indignant townie. He did the same thing in a previous game but the context is not the same -- last time he did this by attacking Amiko once Amiko said that he was just agreeing with something other players said before but before this he voices no suspicion of Eden, and in fact this post doesn't really voice suspicion of Eden either! Instead Cavalinho just places down a vote which gets no justification when we're well past so-called RVS. ##VOTE: Cavalinho.
About LT: Gonna have to disagree with you guys, LT made an honest mistake and got impatient in pulling the trigger.
sqrtofneg1 - What do you think of the interactions between IAmRobik, Eden, Cavalinho and Lord Tolkien? Cavalinho - Are you saying that if we lynch you today and you flip town we should lynch Eden? And more pressingly, why shouldn't we lynch you? (don't just say "I'm town") LT - Yes, actually I am getting flashbacks to Cav's mislynch on Day 1 of our last newbie game. But it's been a while and he's aware of his own playstyle. However, here's something interesting. He's brought it down to "me or you". What do you think of this?
No, I would prefer not to get lynched today period. The reasoning behind lynch me and then lynch him is shoddy at best and detrimental to town at worst.
Also, you shouldn't vote me off because this is the exact same reason I died last game, barring overaggression. It was dumb then and it's dumb now.
The last time I wound up getting lynched was because I ultimately tried to vote off my scumread instead of trying to save myself. I refuse to be voted off day 1 again because I agree with someone and have similar opinions to someone else (which, for the record, he asked me for).
Furthermore, all this "I refuse to be voted off day 1" talk reeks of a lady protesting far too much. Do something to show you're town instead of launching invective at all the people who dare vote for you. You're not a special snowflake, stomping your feet around on the ground demanding that people not vote for you won't convince anyone to relent.
So Cav, who do you think is scum then? I don't understand your logic for why my post on policy was strange -- people were joking around and posting stupid stuff and then I made it so that people would no longer post stupid stuff. Did you want the amount of stupid stuff to continue to pile up? How else are we supposed to get into discussion mode? As I observed, this isn't the same exact reason why you died: the context is a bit different. You were already suspicious of Amiko that game, you were never suspicious of Eden this game and suddenly you place a kneejerk vote on him. wtf?
On March 27 2014 01:05 Eden1892 wrote: You're talking around the points I made -- again -- and making really stretched parallels to another game -- again -- in an attempt to distort what I'm saying -- again.
For the rest of the town, here are the issues with Cavalinho's last post: - He's distorting my arguments here. Specifically: he's framing my expectation that his questions have some purpose to them to mean that I expect him to walk us through every thought he has on the game; he's misinterpreting a question I posed ("why does he think OK is not mafia?" into "why does he think OK is mafia?") to avoid answering it; and he's introducing things I didn't talk about at all (him sleeping and not scumhunting as a result) in an effort to garner sympathy or otherwise discredit my arguments. - He's still not explained his vote for me at all. In fact he's claiming to have sheeped onto a vote...? But he's the only one voting for me.
Lol, and I'm the one misinterpreting things. I gave you reasoning as to why OK is town. I don't need to tell you why I don't think he's mafia if I think he's town. I already told you it was because he's scumhunting like he was in his last game, but you're just going to ignore that to make yourself seem more right.
And I never said I was sheeping onto a vote. I said I did that last game, and that I died for it. I said I was agreeing with someone here and that parallels can be drawn between the two.
You know what I think? I think that you're just pouncing on what you perceive to be town weakness. If LT is town, I think that you're just looking for people to push for flimsy reasoning. You don't seem to particularly care very much about what people are saying and just look for things you can poke holes in. I'm going to stay on my vote for now, I see no reason to change it.
I want to see val and sqrt post more. It has been 18 hours and they haven't done anything of note. Val promised to post something earlier, so I expect to see something when I wake up.
On March 27 2014 01:14 OnceKing wrote: So Cav, who do you think is scum then? I don't understand your logic for why my post on policy was strange -- people were joking around and posting stupid stuff and then I made it so that people would no longer post stupid stuff. Did you want the amount of stupid stuff to continue to pile up? How else are we supposed to get into discussion mode? As I observed, this isn't the same exact reason why you died: the context is a bit different. You were already suspicious of Amiko that game, you were never suspicious of Eden this game and suddenly you place a kneejerk vote on him. wtf?
Read above as to why I think he's scummy.
Also, starting discussion isn't scummy. I thought your reasoning behind what you did was solid and that's why I dropped that tangent. At the time, it was like "what's with this policy crap nothing has happened yet." I guess I just think policy lynches are a last resort and that starting discussion with something like that is pretty peculiar.
I don't think that Cavalinho has really addressed the bulk of my concerns with his play so far, and I also don't think it's by accident, but I find myself unable to articulate why I don't like his last post, which is starting to make me reconsider. A lot of the things I'm still having issues with right now -- the tone and writing style, the apparent directionless demeanor of his questions, my read on why he OMGUS'd then -- are mostly unfalsifiable, which is a problem.
One major outstanding issue though is his rationale for voting for me. Everything that he said about me in the one post where he's explained himself is false, and his vote appears to be contingent on Last Tolkein being town. However, he voted for me before I said anything about LT. Thus the rationale he provided cannot be the original rationale he had for voting for me.
I would still prefer Lord Tolkein as I think it's obvious that he lied initially about his reads and then kept telling lies to cover up the first ones. I think my case on LT is stronger.
So when you get back could you tell me why you just... found reasons to stick with your vote instead of building your case up to the point of a vote? It's very inconsistent -- you build cases by making points and arriving at a conclusion, not making a conclusion and then trying to find details that support it. You also have yet to address my point that the context is actually different due to the fact that you didn't voice suspicion of Eden until after you had voted for him.
LT gave a fake read, that's what I'm seeing. Lying? Yes, but scummy? No. It's only odd that he was so impatient and pulled in his trap early. It's just odd that he hasn't put down a vote yet though he's casting aspersions in several directions. Wanna explain this LT?
OnceKing brings up policy. I kind of disagree with bringing it up so early, but I think it was a town mindset that he did it. I read town.
Eden is clearly town.
Val hasn't been doing much, other than questioning the lurker policy, (kind of like me) so no read on him.
LT clears Val in this post:
On March 26 2014 19:13 Lord Tolkien wrote: I still need to read the LIII mafia game thoroughly. However.
OnceKing sounds town as all fk. I was originally suspicious of his initial "serious" post due to OK's early Day 1 behavior versus early Day 1 LII newbie mafia game and was going to comment on it, but I re-read the old thread and reversed my initial opinion on it (originally thought it was inconsistent, but I reread his case on Amiko and it didn't mention the lurker lynch policy). He's been pushing town towards active discussion since then, asking for reads, and generally steering conversation towards positive goals, so he's establishing himself as town thus far.
IAmRobik also feels town to me, though I still question why he feels OK's post is out of place given the context (unless it was scumbait, that was my first thought). The post is still useful pressure and discussion for town, though, and there is no reason for scum to be so forward, so early on in the day, especially with the possible game-states (no godfather game-state). And his posts subsequent read fairly town.
Valenius is super town in my eyes, he's cleared for me.
Pixelated is neutral or slightly scummy to me.
Eden feels even more town for me. He's actively pushing the Cavalinho case and scumhunting aggressively in Day 1, while being the most active contributor to the thread thus far. Clearest town poster in my mind, as he's giving reasoned arguments here.
Cavalinho sounds...well, aggressive in all his posts. And he's OMGUSing without presenting a case, period. But given his past game behavior, he also does this when he's town so I'm not sure if my scrumread on him is wrong. Like, this is almost a repeat of LII Day 1 in terms of the Cavalinho lynch progression, however without any substance from him. I'm leaving him as possible scum atm tho I'm confused by it. Maybe the most scummiest read I have, even his past town play aside. Like
I also happen to think his OMGUS vote is him trying to look innocent because he's aware of his meta (not the post beforehand he noted that Robik townread him in a previous game because he OMGUS'd then), but that can go either way. What's telling is that he fails to develop his vote, he just puts it down and insists it'll be me or him today. That's dumb and not what a town player should be doing.
This is actually a strong analysis of what I was trying to say.
You know what, Cavalinho isn't angry and pissed off enough to have the righteous indignation like his LII newbie game, nor still tries to contribute. Or hell, contribute an actual case for his OMGUSing.
sqrtofneg1 has thus far been fairly disconcerting to me. I indulged him with the Hearthstone convo, and I think that's irrelevant to the thread thus far. It was a fair shot at getting something going, if inflating his filter/post. After the first actual serious post to pop up Day 1 (the OK policy lynch), he posted this
Fun fact: I've been mafia once, only once, in my fair amount of irl games.
and didn't respond to the looming topic at hand, then had a sleep post. Like, its non-contributive lurking at best. There was definitely things available to comment on at the time of his sleep post. Hell, by the time of that post, IAmRobik had already made his wtf post about OnceKing's lynch policy post. It piggybacks off IAmRobik's joke posts, but he at least follows up with substance after there's clearly something to respond to. He still has time to become an active contributor, but seems to be a scum lurker to me. Probably my primary lynch target today because I'm still fking confused by the signals given off by Cavalinho's playstyle and posting patterns.
In what world does a mafia come into the game and start talking to himself for 10 posts? Mafia has all the reason in the world to sit back and not do shit and contribute when something is happening and then push some random town who is on the chopping blocks. I don't give a damn if it was 10 posts of filler about how he's doing today and how his HS run was going.
The exact same reason you were pushing on OK for: because it's good to make the appearance of contribution. idgaf about the HS posts too much, but the fact he continued the joke posting and made a sleep post before contributing anything useful makes me unhappy.
Quick point to RolandJarvis before the plunge, that was a continued joke post. I was jokingly referencing the LII newbie game where I was OMGUSing OK hard for focusing on me Day 1 (mostly for some inconsistencies in his case). Posted that and the correction right as OK was posting the policy lynch post (note the policy lynch post being nestled between that post and the edit), which is the first serious post of the game, which should have been a clue. I'm overall happy with your contribution, however, and I would recommend you read the LII newbie game, since quite a few of the players here were in that game (and should give you a general idea of our playstyles as town (I think all of us present played as town that game), so you can get a feel for us. You voiced the concern about OK only voicing his read on IAmRobik, but his playstyle is (at least, going off his LII and stated gameplay) to only give his strongest reads. So this isn't inconsistent or scummy for me, just how he plays. Just like how Cavalinho still confuses the fk out of me.
Or you might have and the mistaken use of punctuation in the post confused you.
Overall, I'm quite happy with the way this thread activity has been. no ded gaem
Also, my sleep schedule is fked up, so I may be responding at odd times such as this.
Even though he hasn't done anything. Why would he do that? But wait, there's more. His next post is this:
- Reads on Valenius and Pixalated. ...how? Valenius asked some good questions to develop OnceKing's policy, but that's all. Certainly a good start but not nearly enough to declare him "super town" or "cleared." Especially in light of the fact that he said Pixalated is neutral-to-scummy... I have Pixalated as neutral-to-town if anything, but to be honest they've done virtually the same thing here (not post much, make solid contributions where they did). There's a lack of explanation for either read, which on its own doesn't say much, but...
ZzZ. I knew I should've tried posting that part some other time. Or maybe I should've approached it with more subtlety (see: any subtlety at all).
Was trying to scumbait with it when questioning Cavalinho and sqrt. Was trying to see if they would piggyback off of it. Went back and deleted those sections specifically to try.
My true reads: Valenius leans town at best. I'm hesitant to call him anything at this stage of the game, when his only post is at best asking for a PAINFULLY obvious clarification on a policy. Or in other words, in line with what everyone else has said.
Pixelated is leaning town. He's had more posts and has given reads on sqrt and Valenius, but the main crux of their points have been similar to what OK and others in the thread have said (not much to be said this early into the game, however). He was however the first to defend OK's post (outside of OK), and rightly so. If we're continuing with the Cavalinho lynch, it is...unlikely for them to simultaneously bandwagon on a possible lynch and defend the person in question.
- His position on Cavalinho is inconsistently soft wrt the rest of his list. Notice the "almost" above -- the one big exception is the guy that I personally think is obviously scum. He does some lip service to the idea (e.g. "these things should mark him clear scum"), but then handwaves every point he raises for Cavalinho on a shaky meta argument (e.g. "mark him as clear scum, but... might just be his playstyle). He says Cavalinho is "maybe the most scummiest read he has"*, but then declares sqrt his "probable" lynch target today. There's a lot of waffling on Cavalinho that isn't present with the others. (PREVIEW EDIT: Even concedes the case is strong, but still has sqrt as his top suspect. p l s)
This is again going off of my experience with Cavalinho in LII, though the more you prod, the more I think you may be right about me softballing Cavalinho. I may be trying to discern too much off meta, and am letting how LII Day 1 went color my view of the game and his (pretty scummy) actions too much.
- His rationale for sqrt is weak. Of a handful of inactives so far he's singling out one post of sqrt's (the "I've never drawn mafia" post) as the thing that's so disconcerting to him? Already zeroed in on sqrt being a scum lurker and wants to lynch him over aforesaid "maybe most scummiest read"*? That's just strange to me because nothing that sqrt has done has been alignment-indicative yet.
As I EXPLICITLY note, it was posted AFTER the serious posting began, and AFTER IAmRobik's wtf on OK. The timestamp is key: if it were before that, and even OK's post, whatever. idgaf because that was part of the joke phase. That's what I find the most disconcerting of his posting, versus Valenius (whose post at least addressed something serious).
- Preview edit point: That last question is such a softball! Ideal to ask your fake scum read and your scum buddy, terrible as town. Why wouldn't he ask about the things Cavalinho and sqrt are doing that makes them suspicious to him?
My main issue with sqrt again is the timing of his post and decision to start lurking at that juncture, which makes me far more leery of him over Valenius. Look at the time stamps: 3.5 hours between OK's post and Valenius's question and his sleep post, 4 minutes between Robik's wtf post and his highlighted post, and 11 minutes between the post I highlighted and his sleep post. Certainly there's time to post...something serious? When we had clearly moved past the jokes votes?
Putting him among my top scum reads is/was a means to pressure him into posting something of value and see if he posts anything that makes me pursue that line of inquiry. Similarly, the main thing which Cavalinho isn't doing is giving anything of substance in his posts. This is also why I was posting a full reads list, to see if there was any piggybacking going on.
He demotes Val to leaning town. Maybe he now realizes that he was too obvious in pushing Val for town. If he's mafia, Val's also mafia.
He also makes a scumtrap that's horribly planned out. Top mafia in my eyes.
Robik's playing aggressive, as he normally does. He's been pressuring pretty much everybody, as a town should do. The one thing that I don't like is that he got a town read on my on joke posts before the game. that's strange. I read town.
Pixalated is probably town. He's trying to logically put together the picture, and he's a bit quiet. He's suspicious of the right guys, he's cleared the right guys. I say town, with blue role. The blue role is because he's quiet.
Cav seems mafia, with the same reasons as Robik and Eden.
RJ is town, good reads, good logic.
So it's either Cav + someone who I misread, or LT and Val.
On March 27 2014 01:40 OnceKing wrote: LT gave a fake read, that's what I'm seeing. Lying? Yes, but scummy? No. It's only odd that he was so impatient and pulled in his trap early. It's just odd that he hasn't put down a vote yet though he's casting aspersions in several directions. Wanna explain this LT?
He gave a fake read and called it a trap, yes. But it's not that he lied about the read, it's that he's lying about the trap. I think that's pretty obvious given the points I raised in this post.
Even aside from all that there are multiple other issues: - the certainty in all of his reads including on multiple people who hadn't said anything - the strong push for a sqrt lynch based on nothing - reading Cavalinho as top scum, but neither voting for him nor pressuring him in any discernible way - related to above two, waffling on his Cavalinho read (while still reading him top scum) despite being certain of the others
On March 27 2014 01:31 Eden1892 wrote: I don't think that Cavalinho has really addressed the bulk of my concerns with his play so far, and I also don't think it's by accident, but I find myself unable to articulate why I don't like his last post, which is starting to make me reconsider. A lot of the things I'm still having issues with right now -- the tone and writing style, the apparent directionless demeanor of his questions, my read on why he OMGUS'd then -- are mostly unfalsifiable, which is a problem.
One major outstanding issue though is his rationale for voting for me. Everything that he said about me in the one post where he's explained himself is false, and his vote appears to be contingent on Last Tolkein being town. However, he voted for me before I said anything about LT. Thus the rationale he provided cannot be the original rationale he had for voting for me.
I would still prefer Lord Tolkein as I think it's obvious that he lied initially about his reads and then kept telling lies to cover up the first ones. I think my case on LT is stronger.
So I just got my hands on a computer and I'm about to get my story straight with some of my reads. Before I do, I want to address this.
You keep saying I'm not giving you answers. I've answered your questions on basically everything, but you just keep saying that I'm not cooperating and that I'm not giving you information. Every time I give you an answer on something, you just turn around and go "no, he isn't addressing anything." Except, I'm actually doing exactly that and it's really starting to bug me that you keep trying to poke holes in things.
The only thing you've brought up that has actually had some kind of purpose was the vote on you. I will 100% admit that it was initially nothing more than a baseless OMGUS. I got frustrated at getting focused day 1 (again) and just went "meh, fuck it."
When I actually sat down to look at things from a more rational perspective...It just looks like you're pushing me based on the fact that I'm not giving you answers or because you don't like the way I say things. You keep mentioning reactions and the like, but all of that stuff is based on your own perception which I've addressed already. Most of your supposed "case" boils down to "I don't like the way he is saying things," which does not make me mafia.
OnceKing brings up policy. I kind of disagree with bringing it up so early, but I think it was a town mindset that he did it. I read town.
Eden is clearly town.
Val hasn't been doing much, other than questioning the lurker policy, (kind of like me) so no read on him.
LT clears Val in this post:
On March 26 2014 19:13 Lord Tolkien wrote: I still need to read the LIII mafia game thoroughly. However.
OnceKing sounds town as all fk. I was originally suspicious of his initial "serious" post due to OK's early Day 1 behavior versus early Day 1 LII newbie mafia game and was going to comment on it, but I re-read the old thread and reversed my initial opinion on it (originally thought it was inconsistent, but I reread his case on Amiko and it didn't mention the lurker lynch policy). He's been pushing town towards active discussion since then, asking for reads, and generally steering conversation towards positive goals, so he's establishing himself as town thus far.
IAmRobik also feels town to me, though I still question why he feels OK's post is out of place given the context (unless it was scumbait, that was my first thought). The post is still useful pressure and discussion for town, though, and there is no reason for scum to be so forward, so early on in the day, especially with the possible game-states (no godfather game-state). And his posts subsequent read fairly town.
Valenius is super town in my eyes, he's cleared for me.
Pixelated is neutral or slightly scummy to me.
Eden feels even more town for me. He's actively pushing the Cavalinho case and scumhunting aggressively in Day 1, while being the most active contributor to the thread thus far. Clearest town poster in my mind, as he's giving reasoned arguments here.
Cavalinho sounds...well, aggressive in all his posts. And he's OMGUSing without presenting a case, period. But given his past game behavior, he also does this when he's town so I'm not sure if my scrumread on him is wrong. Like, this is almost a repeat of LII Day 1 in terms of the Cavalinho lynch progression, however without any substance from him. I'm leaving him as possible scum atm tho I'm confused by it. Maybe the most scummiest read I have, even his past town play aside. Like
I also happen to think his OMGUS vote is him trying to look innocent because he's aware of his meta (not the post beforehand he noted that Robik townread him in a previous game because he OMGUS'd then), but that can go either way. What's telling is that he fails to develop his vote, he just puts it down and insists it'll be me or him today. That's dumb and not what a town player should be doing.
This is actually a strong analysis of what I was trying to say.
You know what, Cavalinho isn't angry and pissed off enough to have the righteous indignation like his LII newbie game, nor still tries to contribute. Or hell, contribute an actual case for his OMGUSing.
sqrtofneg1 has thus far been fairly disconcerting to me. I indulged him with the Hearthstone convo, and I think that's irrelevant to the thread thus far. It was a fair shot at getting something going, if inflating his filter/post. After the first actual serious post to pop up Day 1 (the OK policy lynch), he posted this
Fun fact: I've been mafia once, only once, in my fair amount of irl games.
and didn't respond to the looming topic at hand, then had a sleep post. Like, its non-contributive lurking at best. There was definitely things available to comment on at the time of his sleep post. Hell, by the time of that post, IAmRobik had already made his wtf post about OnceKing's lynch policy post. It piggybacks off IAmRobik's joke posts, but he at least follows up with substance after there's clearly something to respond to. He still has time to become an active contributor, but seems to be a scum lurker to me. Probably my primary lynch target today because I'm still fking confused by the signals given off by Cavalinho's playstyle and posting patterns.
In what world does a mafia come into the game and start talking to himself for 10 posts? Mafia has all the reason in the world to sit back and not do shit and contribute when something is happening and then push some random town who is on the chopping blocks. I don't give a damn if it was 10 posts of filler about how he's doing today and how his HS run was going.
The exact same reason you were pushing on OK for: because it's good to make the appearance of contribution. idgaf about the HS posts too much, but the fact he continued the joke posting and made a sleep post before contributing anything useful makes me unhappy.
Quick point to RolandJarvis before the plunge, that was a continued joke post. I was jokingly referencing the LII newbie game where I was OMGUSing OK hard for focusing on me Day 1 (mostly for some inconsistencies in his case). Posted that and the correction right as OK was posting the policy lynch post (note the policy lynch post being nestled between that post and the edit), which is the first serious post of the game, which should have been a clue. I'm overall happy with your contribution, however, and I would recommend you read the LII newbie game, since quite a few of the players here were in that game (and should give you a general idea of our playstyles as town (I think all of us present played as town that game), so you can get a feel for us. You voiced the concern about OK only voicing his read on IAmRobik, but his playstyle is (at least, going off his LII and stated gameplay) to only give his strongest reads. So this isn't inconsistent or scummy for me, just how he plays. Just like how Cavalinho still confuses the fk out of me.
Or you might have and the mistaken use of punctuation in the post confused you.
Overall, I'm quite happy with the way this thread activity has been. no ded gaem
Also, my sleep schedule is fked up, so I may be responding at odd times such as this.
Even though he hasn't done anything. Why would he do that? But wait, there's more. His next post is this:
- Reads on Valenius and Pixalated. ...how? Valenius asked some good questions to develop OnceKing's policy, but that's all. Certainly a good start but not nearly enough to declare him "super town" or "cleared." Especially in light of the fact that he said Pixalated is neutral-to-scummy... I have Pixalated as neutral-to-town if anything, but to be honest they've done virtually the same thing here (not post much, make solid contributions where they did). There's a lack of explanation for either read, which on its own doesn't say much, but...
ZzZ. I knew I should've tried posting that part some other time. Or maybe I should've approached it with more subtlety (see: any subtlety at all).
Was trying to scumbait with it when questioning Cavalinho and sqrt. Was trying to see if they would piggyback off of it. Went back and deleted those sections specifically to try.
My true reads: Valenius leans town at best. I'm hesitant to call him anything at this stage of the game, when his only post is at best asking for a PAINFULLY obvious clarification on a policy. Or in other words, in line with what everyone else has said.
Pixelated is leaning town. He's had more posts and has given reads on sqrt and Valenius, but the main crux of their points have been similar to what OK and others in the thread have said (not much to be said this early into the game, however). He was however the first to defend OK's post (outside of OK), and rightly so. If we're continuing with the Cavalinho lynch, it is...unlikely for them to simultaneously bandwagon on a possible lynch and defend the person in question.
- His position on Cavalinho is inconsistently soft wrt the rest of his list. Notice the "almost" above -- the one big exception is the guy that I personally think is obviously scum. He does some lip service to the idea (e.g. "these things should mark him clear scum"), but then handwaves every point he raises for Cavalinho on a shaky meta argument (e.g. "mark him as clear scum, but... might just be his playstyle). He says Cavalinho is "maybe the most scummiest read he has"*, but then declares sqrt his "probable" lynch target today. There's a lot of waffling on Cavalinho that isn't present with the others. (PREVIEW EDIT: Even concedes the case is strong, but still has sqrt as his top suspect. p l s)
This is again going off of my experience with Cavalinho in LII, though the more you prod, the more I think you may be right about me softballing Cavalinho. I may be trying to discern too much off meta, and am letting how LII Day 1 went color my view of the game and his (pretty scummy) actions too much.
- His rationale for sqrt is weak. Of a handful of inactives so far he's singling out one post of sqrt's (the "I've never drawn mafia" post) as the thing that's so disconcerting to him? Already zeroed in on sqrt being a scum lurker and wants to lynch him over aforesaid "maybe most scummiest read"*? That's just strange to me because nothing that sqrt has done has been alignment-indicative yet.
As I EXPLICITLY note, it was posted AFTER the serious posting began, and AFTER IAmRobik's wtf on OK. The timestamp is key: if it were before that, and even OK's post, whatever. idgaf because that was part of the joke phase. That's what I find the most disconcerting of his posting, versus Valenius (whose post at least addressed something serious).
- Preview edit point: That last question is such a softball! Ideal to ask your fake scum read and your scum buddy, terrible as town. Why wouldn't he ask about the things Cavalinho and sqrt are doing that makes them suspicious to him?
My main issue with sqrt again is the timing of his post and decision to start lurking at that juncture, which makes me far more leery of him over Valenius. Look at the time stamps: 3.5 hours between OK's post and Valenius's question and his sleep post, 4 minutes between Robik's wtf post and his highlighted post, and 11 minutes between the post I highlighted and his sleep post. Certainly there's time to post...something serious? When we had clearly moved past the jokes votes?
Putting him among my top scum reads is/was a means to pressure him into posting something of value and see if he posts anything that makes me pursue that line of inquiry. Similarly, the main thing which Cavalinho isn't doing is giving anything of substance in his posts. This is also why I was posting a full reads list, to see if there was any piggybacking going on.
He demotes Val to leaning town. Maybe he now realizes that he was too obvious in pushing Val for town. If he's mafia, Val's also mafia.
He also makes a scumtrap that's horribly planned out. Top mafia in my eyes.
Robik's playing aggressive, as he normally does. He's been pressuring pretty much everybody, as a town should do. The one thing that I don't like is that he got a town read on my on joke posts before the game. that's strange. I read town.
Pixalated is probably town. He's trying to logically put together the picture, and he's a bit quiet. He's suspicious of the right guys, he's cleared the right guys. I say town, with blue role. The blue role is because he's quiet.
Cav seems mafia, with the same reasons as Robik and Eden.
RJ is town, good reads, good logic.
So it's either Cav + someone who I misread, or LT and Val.
I disagree with this assessment. I think that he demotes Val to "leaning town" to give himself an "out" in case he needs to vote for Val later. Thus if LT is in fact mafia, I think that Val is more likely town.
OnceKing brings up policy. I kind of disagree with bringing it up so early, but I think it was a town mindset that he did it. I read town.
Eden is clearly town.
Val hasn't been doing much, other than questioning the lurker policy, (kind of like me) so no read on him.
LT clears Val in this post:
On March 26 2014 19:13 Lord Tolkien wrote: I still need to read the LIII mafia game thoroughly. However.
OnceKing sounds town as all fk. I was originally suspicious of his initial "serious" post due to OK's early Day 1 behavior versus early Day 1 LII newbie mafia game and was going to comment on it, but I re-read the old thread and reversed my initial opinion on it (originally thought it was inconsistent, but I reread his case on Amiko and it didn't mention the lurker lynch policy). He's been pushing town towards active discussion since then, asking for reads, and generally steering conversation towards positive goals, so he's establishing himself as town thus far.
IAmRobik also feels town to me, though I still question why he feels OK's post is out of place given the context (unless it was scumbait, that was my first thought). The post is still useful pressure and discussion for town, though, and there is no reason for scum to be so forward, so early on in the day, especially with the possible game-states (no godfather game-state). And his posts subsequent read fairly town.
Valenius is super town in my eyes, he's cleared for me.
Pixelated is neutral or slightly scummy to me.
Eden feels even more town for me. He's actively pushing the Cavalinho case and scumhunting aggressively in Day 1, while being the most active contributor to the thread thus far. Clearest town poster in my mind, as he's giving reasoned arguments here.
Cavalinho sounds...well, aggressive in all his posts. And he's OMGUSing without presenting a case, period. But given his past game behavior, he also does this when he's town so I'm not sure if my scrumread on him is wrong. Like, this is almost a repeat of LII Day 1 in terms of the Cavalinho lynch progression, however without any substance from him. I'm leaving him as possible scum atm tho I'm confused by it. Maybe the most scummiest read I have, even his past town play aside. Like
I also happen to think his OMGUS vote is him trying to look innocent because he's aware of his meta (not the post beforehand he noted that Robik townread him in a previous game because he OMGUS'd then), but that can go either way. What's telling is that he fails to develop his vote, he just puts it down and insists it'll be me or him today. That's dumb and not what a town player should be doing.
This is actually a strong analysis of what I was trying to say.
You know what, Cavalinho isn't angry and pissed off enough to have the righteous indignation like his LII newbie game, nor still tries to contribute. Or hell, contribute an actual case for his OMGUSing.
sqrtofneg1 has thus far been fairly disconcerting to me. I indulged him with the Hearthstone convo, and I think that's irrelevant to the thread thus far. It was a fair shot at getting something going, if inflating his filter/post. After the first actual serious post to pop up Day 1 (the OK policy lynch), he posted this
Fun fact: I've been mafia once, only once, in my fair amount of irl games.
and didn't respond to the looming topic at hand, then had a sleep post. Like, its non-contributive lurking at best. There was definitely things available to comment on at the time of his sleep post. Hell, by the time of that post, IAmRobik had already made his wtf post about OnceKing's lynch policy post. It piggybacks off IAmRobik's joke posts, but he at least follows up with substance after there's clearly something to respond to. He still has time to become an active contributor, but seems to be a scum lurker to me. Probably my primary lynch target today because I'm still fking confused by the signals given off by Cavalinho's playstyle and posting patterns.
In what world does a mafia come into the game and start talking to himself for 10 posts? Mafia has all the reason in the world to sit back and not do shit and contribute when something is happening and then push some random town who is on the chopping blocks. I don't give a damn if it was 10 posts of filler about how he's doing today and how his HS run was going.
The exact same reason you were pushing on OK for: because it's good to make the appearance of contribution. idgaf about the HS posts too much, but the fact he continued the joke posting and made a sleep post before contributing anything useful makes me unhappy.
Quick point to RolandJarvis before the plunge, that was a continued joke post. I was jokingly referencing the LII newbie game where I was OMGUSing OK hard for focusing on me Day 1 (mostly for some inconsistencies in his case). Posted that and the correction right as OK was posting the policy lynch post (note the policy lynch post being nestled between that post and the edit), which is the first serious post of the game, which should have been a clue. I'm overall happy with your contribution, however, and I would recommend you read the LII newbie game, since quite a few of the players here were in that game (and should give you a general idea of our playstyles as town (I think all of us present played as town that game), so you can get a feel for us. You voiced the concern about OK only voicing his read on IAmRobik, but his playstyle is (at least, going off his LII and stated gameplay) to only give his strongest reads. So this isn't inconsistent or scummy for me, just how he plays. Just like how Cavalinho still confuses the fk out of me.
Or you might have and the mistaken use of punctuation in the post confused you.
Overall, I'm quite happy with the way this thread activity has been. no ded gaem
Also, my sleep schedule is fked up, so I may be responding at odd times such as this.
Even though he hasn't done anything. Why would he do that? But wait, there's more. His next post is this:
- Reads on Valenius and Pixalated. ...how? Valenius asked some good questions to develop OnceKing's policy, but that's all. Certainly a good start but not nearly enough to declare him "super town" or "cleared." Especially in light of the fact that he said Pixalated is neutral-to-scummy... I have Pixalated as neutral-to-town if anything, but to be honest they've done virtually the same thing here (not post much, make solid contributions where they did). There's a lack of explanation for either read, which on its own doesn't say much, but...
ZzZ. I knew I should've tried posting that part some other time. Or maybe I should've approached it with more subtlety (see: any subtlety at all).
Was trying to scumbait with it when questioning Cavalinho and sqrt. Was trying to see if they would piggyback off of it. Went back and deleted those sections specifically to try.
My true reads: Valenius leans town at best. I'm hesitant to call him anything at this stage of the game, when his only post is at best asking for a PAINFULLY obvious clarification on a policy. Or in other words, in line with what everyone else has said.
Pixelated is leaning town. He's had more posts and has given reads on sqrt and Valenius, but the main crux of their points have been similar to what OK and others in the thread have said (not much to be said this early into the game, however). He was however the first to defend OK's post (outside of OK), and rightly so. If we're continuing with the Cavalinho lynch, it is...unlikely for them to simultaneously bandwagon on a possible lynch and defend the person in question.
- His position on Cavalinho is inconsistently soft wrt the rest of his list. Notice the "almost" above -- the one big exception is the guy that I personally think is obviously scum. He does some lip service to the idea (e.g. "these things should mark him clear scum"), but then handwaves every point he raises for Cavalinho on a shaky meta argument (e.g. "mark him as clear scum, but... might just be his playstyle). He says Cavalinho is "maybe the most scummiest read he has"*, but then declares sqrt his "probable" lynch target today. There's a lot of waffling on Cavalinho that isn't present with the others. (PREVIEW EDIT: Even concedes the case is strong, but still has sqrt as his top suspect. p l s)
This is again going off of my experience with Cavalinho in LII, though the more you prod, the more I think you may be right about me softballing Cavalinho. I may be trying to discern too much off meta, and am letting how LII Day 1 went color my view of the game and his (pretty scummy) actions too much.
- His rationale for sqrt is weak. Of a handful of inactives so far he's singling out one post of sqrt's (the "I've never drawn mafia" post) as the thing that's so disconcerting to him? Already zeroed in on sqrt being a scum lurker and wants to lynch him over aforesaid "maybe most scummiest read"*? That's just strange to me because nothing that sqrt has done has been alignment-indicative yet.
As I EXPLICITLY note, it was posted AFTER the serious posting began, and AFTER IAmRobik's wtf on OK. The timestamp is key: if it were before that, and even OK's post, whatever. idgaf because that was part of the joke phase. That's what I find the most disconcerting of his posting, versus Valenius (whose post at least addressed something serious).
- Preview edit point: That last question is such a softball! Ideal to ask your fake scum read and your scum buddy, terrible as town. Why wouldn't he ask about the things Cavalinho and sqrt are doing that makes them suspicious to him?
My main issue with sqrt again is the timing of his post and decision to start lurking at that juncture, which makes me far more leery of him over Valenius. Look at the time stamps: 3.5 hours between OK's post and Valenius's question and his sleep post, 4 minutes between Robik's wtf post and his highlighted post, and 11 minutes between the post I highlighted and his sleep post. Certainly there's time to post...something serious? When we had clearly moved past the jokes votes?
Putting him among my top scum reads is/was a means to pressure him into posting something of value and see if he posts anything that makes me pursue that line of inquiry. Similarly, the main thing which Cavalinho isn't doing is giving anything of substance in his posts. This is also why I was posting a full reads list, to see if there was any piggybacking going on.
He demotes Val to leaning town. Maybe he now realizes that he was too obvious in pushing Val for town. If he's mafia, Val's also mafia.
He also makes a scumtrap that's horribly planned out. Top mafia in my eyes.
Robik's playing aggressive, as he normally does. He's been pressuring pretty much everybody, as a town should do. The one thing that I don't like is that he got a town read on my on joke posts before the game. that's strange. I read town.
Pixalated is probably town. He's trying to logically put together the picture, and he's a bit quiet. He's suspicious of the right guys, he's cleared the right guys. I say town, with blue role. The blue role is because he's quiet.
Cav seems mafia, with the same reasons as Robik and Eden.
RJ is town, good reads, good logic.
So it's either Cav + someone who I misread, or LT and Val.
I disagree with this assessment. I think that he demotes Val to "leaning town" to give himself an "out" in case he needs to vote for Val later. Thus if LT is in fact mafia, I think that Val is more likely town.
Hmm, but why would he call Val as town in the first place?
OnceKing brings up policy. I kind of disagree with bringing it up so early, but I think it was a town mindset that he did it. I read town.
Eden is clearly town.
Val hasn't been doing much, other than questioning the lurker policy, (kind of like me) so no read on him.
LT clears Val in this post:
On March 26 2014 19:13 Lord Tolkien wrote: I still need to read the LIII mafia game thoroughly. However.
OnceKing sounds town as all fk. I was originally suspicious of his initial "serious" post due to OK's early Day 1 behavior versus early Day 1 LII newbie mafia game and was going to comment on it, but I re-read the old thread and reversed my initial opinion on it (originally thought it was inconsistent, but I reread his case on Amiko and it didn't mention the lurker lynch policy). He's been pushing town towards active discussion since then, asking for reads, and generally steering conversation towards positive goals, so he's establishing himself as town thus far.
IAmRobik also feels town to me, though I still question why he feels OK's post is out of place given the context (unless it was scumbait, that was my first thought). The post is still useful pressure and discussion for town, though, and there is no reason for scum to be so forward, so early on in the day, especially with the possible game-states (no godfather game-state). And his posts subsequent read fairly town.
Valenius is super town in my eyes, he's cleared for me.
Pixelated is neutral or slightly scummy to me.
Eden feels even more town for me. He's actively pushing the Cavalinho case and scumhunting aggressively in Day 1, while being the most active contributor to the thread thus far. Clearest town poster in my mind, as he's giving reasoned arguments here.
Cavalinho sounds...well, aggressive in all his posts. And he's OMGUSing without presenting a case, period. But given his past game behavior, he also does this when he's town so I'm not sure if my scrumread on him is wrong. Like, this is almost a repeat of LII Day 1 in terms of the Cavalinho lynch progression, however without any substance from him. I'm leaving him as possible scum atm tho I'm confused by it. Maybe the most scummiest read I have, even his past town play aside. Like
I also happen to think his OMGUS vote is him trying to look innocent because he's aware of his meta (not the post beforehand he noted that Robik townread him in a previous game because he OMGUS'd then), but that can go either way. What's telling is that he fails to develop his vote, he just puts it down and insists it'll be me or him today. That's dumb and not what a town player should be doing.
This is actually a strong analysis of what I was trying to say.
You know what, Cavalinho isn't angry and pissed off enough to have the righteous indignation like his LII newbie game, nor still tries to contribute. Or hell, contribute an actual case for his OMGUSing.
sqrtofneg1 has thus far been fairly disconcerting to me. I indulged him with the Hearthstone convo, and I think that's irrelevant to the thread thus far. It was a fair shot at getting something going, if inflating his filter/post. After the first actual serious post to pop up Day 1 (the OK policy lynch), he posted this
Fun fact: I've been mafia once, only once, in my fair amount of irl games.
and didn't respond to the looming topic at hand, then had a sleep post. Like, its non-contributive lurking at best. There was definitely things available to comment on at the time of his sleep post. Hell, by the time of that post, IAmRobik had already made his wtf post about OnceKing's lynch policy post. It piggybacks off IAmRobik's joke posts, but he at least follows up with substance after there's clearly something to respond to. He still has time to become an active contributor, but seems to be a scum lurker to me. Probably my primary lynch target today because I'm still fking confused by the signals given off by Cavalinho's playstyle and posting patterns.
In what world does a mafia come into the game and start talking to himself for 10 posts? Mafia has all the reason in the world to sit back and not do shit and contribute when something is happening and then push some random town who is on the chopping blocks. I don't give a damn if it was 10 posts of filler about how he's doing today and how his HS run was going.
The exact same reason you were pushing on OK for: because it's good to make the appearance of contribution. idgaf about the HS posts too much, but the fact he continued the joke posting and made a sleep post before contributing anything useful makes me unhappy.
Quick point to RolandJarvis before the plunge, that was a continued joke post. I was jokingly referencing the LII newbie game where I was OMGUSing OK hard for focusing on me Day 1 (mostly for some inconsistencies in his case). Posted that and the correction right as OK was posting the policy lynch post (note the policy lynch post being nestled between that post and the edit), which is the first serious post of the game, which should have been a clue. I'm overall happy with your contribution, however, and I would recommend you read the LII newbie game, since quite a few of the players here were in that game (and should give you a general idea of our playstyles as town (I think all of us present played as town that game), so you can get a feel for us. You voiced the concern about OK only voicing his read on IAmRobik, but his playstyle is (at least, going off his LII and stated gameplay) to only give his strongest reads. So this isn't inconsistent or scummy for me, just how he plays. Just like how Cavalinho still confuses the fk out of me.
Or you might have and the mistaken use of punctuation in the post confused you.
Overall, I'm quite happy with the way this thread activity has been. no ded gaem
Also, my sleep schedule is fked up, so I may be responding at odd times such as this.
Even though he hasn't done anything. Why would he do that? But wait, there's more. His next post is this:
- Reads on Valenius and Pixalated. ...how? Valenius asked some good questions to develop OnceKing's policy, but that's all. Certainly a good start but not nearly enough to declare him "super town" or "cleared." Especially in light of the fact that he said Pixalated is neutral-to-scummy... I have Pixalated as neutral-to-town if anything, but to be honest they've done virtually the same thing here (not post much, make solid contributions where they did). There's a lack of explanation for either read, which on its own doesn't say much, but...
ZzZ. I knew I should've tried posting that part some other time. Or maybe I should've approached it with more subtlety (see: any subtlety at all).
Was trying to scumbait with it when questioning Cavalinho and sqrt. Was trying to see if they would piggyback off of it. Went back and deleted those sections specifically to try.
My true reads: Valenius leans town at best. I'm hesitant to call him anything at this stage of the game, when his only post is at best asking for a PAINFULLY obvious clarification on a policy. Or in other words, in line with what everyone else has said.
Pixelated is leaning town. He's had more posts and has given reads on sqrt and Valenius, but the main crux of their points have been similar to what OK and others in the thread have said (not much to be said this early into the game, however). He was however the first to defend OK's post (outside of OK), and rightly so. If we're continuing with the Cavalinho lynch, it is...unlikely for them to simultaneously bandwagon on a possible lynch and defend the person in question.
- His position on Cavalinho is inconsistently soft wrt the rest of his list. Notice the "almost" above -- the one big exception is the guy that I personally think is obviously scum. He does some lip service to the idea (e.g. "these things should mark him clear scum"), but then handwaves every point he raises for Cavalinho on a shaky meta argument (e.g. "mark him as clear scum, but... might just be his playstyle). He says Cavalinho is "maybe the most scummiest read he has"*, but then declares sqrt his "probable" lynch target today. There's a lot of waffling on Cavalinho that isn't present with the others. (PREVIEW EDIT: Even concedes the case is strong, but still has sqrt as his top suspect. p l s)
This is again going off of my experience with Cavalinho in LII, though the more you prod, the more I think you may be right about me softballing Cavalinho. I may be trying to discern too much off meta, and am letting how LII Day 1 went color my view of the game and his (pretty scummy) actions too much.
- His rationale for sqrt is weak. Of a handful of inactives so far he's singling out one post of sqrt's (the "I've never drawn mafia" post) as the thing that's so disconcerting to him? Already zeroed in on sqrt being a scum lurker and wants to lynch him over aforesaid "maybe most scummiest read"*? That's just strange to me because nothing that sqrt has done has been alignment-indicative yet.
As I EXPLICITLY note, it was posted AFTER the serious posting began, and AFTER IAmRobik's wtf on OK. The timestamp is key: if it were before that, and even OK's post, whatever. idgaf because that was part of the joke phase. That's what I find the most disconcerting of his posting, versus Valenius (whose post at least addressed something serious).
- Preview edit point: That last question is such a softball! Ideal to ask your fake scum read and your scum buddy, terrible as town. Why wouldn't he ask about the things Cavalinho and sqrt are doing that makes them suspicious to him?
My main issue with sqrt again is the timing of his post and decision to start lurking at that juncture, which makes me far more leery of him over Valenius. Look at the time stamps: 3.5 hours between OK's post and Valenius's question and his sleep post, 4 minutes between Robik's wtf post and his highlighted post, and 11 minutes between the post I highlighted and his sleep post. Certainly there's time to post...something serious? When we had clearly moved past the jokes votes?
Putting him among my top scum reads is/was a means to pressure him into posting something of value and see if he posts anything that makes me pursue that line of inquiry. Similarly, the main thing which Cavalinho isn't doing is giving anything of substance in his posts. This is also why I was posting a full reads list, to see if there was any piggybacking going on.
He demotes Val to leaning town. Maybe he now realizes that he was too obvious in pushing Val for town. If he's mafia, Val's also mafia.
He also makes a scumtrap that's horribly planned out. Top mafia in my eyes.
Robik's playing aggressive, as he normally does. He's been pressuring pretty much everybody, as a town should do. The one thing that I don't like is that he got a town read on my on joke posts before the game. that's strange. I read town.
Pixalated is probably town. He's trying to logically put together the picture, and he's a bit quiet. He's suspicious of the right guys, he's cleared the right guys. I say town, with blue role. The blue role is because he's quiet.
Cav seems mafia, with the same reasons as Robik and Eden.
RJ is town, good reads, good logic.
So it's either Cav + someone who I misread, or LT and Val.
I disagree with this assessment. I think that he demotes Val to "leaning town" to give himself an "out" in case he needs to vote for Val later. Thus if LT is in fact mafia, I think that Val is more likely town.
Hmm, but why would he call Val as town in the first place?
I mean... he has to townread people as either alignment. I'm not him. I don't know why he makes the reads/plays he makes.
From what i understand (wtf LT..) of his post, he was trying to bait anyone into agreeing blindly with him on those reads.
By putting me as an obvious town despite myself having done fuck all so far this game, it would draw a massive flag to anyone just agreeing with his post. It got called out pretty much immediately as a wtf post (rightly so) and he explained that was his plan.
LT, i can sort of.. understand what you were trying' but damn man.. that execution was horrific.
for anyone who didn't play with me two games ago, this (now to now+6 or 7 hours) is pretty much the only posting time i can get. it sucks, and im sorry for that.
i'll be as helpful as possible during this time, and if anyone want's to leave me questions go ahead and i'll try pick them up. if i dont answer anything, let me know and ill look at it again~
I'm going to address you directly once more, Cavalinho, and then until you demonstrate you're capable of reading properly and/or arguing in good faith, I'm not going to address you further.
There's a plethora of things you haven't addressed. The issue is that most of them aren't really arguable (not in the sense that there is no legitimate counterargument but more literally that they can't be argued). You're doing a lot of subtle things with the way you write; I raised the example of how your tone kept changing to match what Robik was doing re: OnceKing, for instance. You haven't said anything about it. I don't expect you to say anything productive or helpful, though, on that front, and it isn't worth arguing out. (You will say that either I am misinterpreting your tone or that your tone changes are coincidental, and it will simply be up to the audience to decide whether you are lying or I am wrong.)
Even still, there are things I've raised which you could have argued but have elected not to argue, probably because they're unarguable (in the sense that there is no legitimate counterargument). You've repeatedly straw manned the arguments against you instead of addressing them charitably and reasonably. At no point did your questions, and responses to the answers you received, have any apparent constructive direction. Your voting rationale given was entirely post-hoc and despite your last message here it's obvious that you are sticking to your vote in spite of the overwhelming evidence against it, probably because you're desperate scum latching onto any last shred of capacity to cast doubt on me that you have.
---
Why are all of you so quick to accept Tolkein's blatant lies about his test? Please. Until someone can rebut the five points raised in this post and establish that none of them are proof beyond a reasonable doubt that Tolkein is lying, no one in this thread has any reason to believe that Tolkein is being honest.
Here are the few reads that I've managed to gather thus far:
You can get my Eden read from above. If LT is town, then Eden is almost certainly mafia due to the way he pushes information and pounces an anything he perceives as weakness. It looks like he's more concerned with finding loopholes in reasoning rather than finding the mindset behind the moves players are making. While this can be construed as scumhunting, it doesn't necessarily mean that it is just because he looks busy. I'll admit, my own play has started somewhat sloppily and I think that his push was warranted...for a time. It looks like he's more concerned with making himself right rather than finding the right answer.
There's also the point that he's actually started skimming my posts and then ignoring what I'm saying. This can be a mistake, but considering the way he so aggressively goes after certain information (and then ignoring what he finds) doesn't lead me to believe so.
That being said, the points Eden brings up against LT make a whole lot of sense. LT's read on me is bosh. He says I'm practically confirmed mafia because I wanted someone to clarify something before I answered their question...What is that? Is that even a thing? I don't think that Val has really done enough to warrant being cleared as town, either. (Though Robik has done the same, and I generally think Robik comes up with pretty solid reads.) LT is scummy, and not just because he thinks I'm scum (which, considering the way this thread is going, is really saying something).
OnceKing is pretty clear town to me. I thought he had a strong town game before, and I think he has one now. Policy lynch weirdness aside, it's clear that he made those posts with a town agenda in mind and that he's done plenty to keep us occupied in trying to solve the game's mystery. His questioning is solid and his logic is pretty easy to follow. I like it.
Sqrt leans town for similar reasons. He doesn't thrust himself into the spotlight like OK does, but it seems like he's pretty focused on finding the right kinds of information. I don't think I have any real reasons to suspect him of anything right now.
Pixelated is slightly town. I've already put together why the initial case against me was derp, but all he has said was "I don't think that's good enough." That's...not a good answer. At all. It's like he's just set on it (which is silly for a town player, because nobody has perfect information except mafia) and not particularly willing to backtrack on anything. Despite this, he's actively looking for information and stuff.
Valenius is null, in case I didn't already make that particularly clear from my earlier reads. I don't think he has done a whole lot yet and looking through his filter leads me to believe that he's either genuinely AWOL or he's trying to lay low. Time will tell.
Robik is town. Another player thrusting themselves into the spotlight, giving reads and generally doing shit that generally gets done in games. Is confirmed best player.
Roland is null. I want to wait more before giving a read on him, because I already know I'm the kind of guy that likes to OMGUS and I feel like if I gave one now that it would be influenced by my confrontational mindset. (Though his read on Robik is actually kinda funny in the sense that, yeah, mafia probably wouldn't do that.)
I want to elaborate more, but some people haven't even gotten to a two page filter yet. More information, specifically from LT, would be great right now.
On March 27 2014 02:51 Eden1892 wrote: I'm going to address you directly once more, Cavalinho, and then until you demonstrate you're capable of reading properly and/or arguing in good faith, I'm not going to address you further.
There's a plethora of things you haven't addressed. The issue is that most of them aren't really arguable (not in the sense that there is no legitimate counterargument but more literally that they can't be argued). You're doing a lot of subtle things with the way you write; I raised the example of how your tone kept changing to match what Robik was doing re: OnceKing, for instance. You haven't said anything about it. I don't expect you to say anything productive or helpful, though, on that front, and it isn't worth arguing out. (You will say that either I am misinterpreting your tone or that your tone changes are coincidental, and it will simply be up to the audience to decide whether you are lying or I am wrong.)
Even still, there are things I've raised which you could have argued but have elected not to argue, probably because they're unarguable (in the sense that there is no legitimate counterargument). You've repeatedly straw manned the arguments against you instead of addressing them charitably and reasonably. At no point did your questions, and responses to the answers you received, have any apparent constructive direction. Your voting rationale given was entirely post-hoc and despite your last message here it's obvious that you are sticking to your vote in spite of the overwhelming evidence against it, probably because you're desperate scum latching onto any last shred of capacity to cast doubt on me that you have.
---
Why are all of you so quick to accept Tolkein's blatant lies about his test? Please. Until someone can rebut the five points raised in this post and establish that none of them are proof beyond a reasonable doubt that Tolkein is lying, no one in this thread has any reason to believe that Tolkein is being honest.
I'll answer in a bit, have some work to do and will get back to you.
I need LT to respond to Eden's five points, then. I don't and won't presume to speak for him and my estimation that he made an honest mistake might be biased from LII. Valenius seems to have an idea, though. So Valenius, I'd like you to respond to Eden's points too, as well as give your thoughts on Cav/Eden!
On March 27 2014 03:14 Cavalinho wrote: Here are the few reads that I've managed to gather thus far:
You can get my Eden read from above. If LT is town, then Eden is almost certainly mafia due to the way he pushes information and pounces an anything he perceives as weakness. It looks like he's more concerned with finding loopholes in reasoning rather than finding the mindset behind the moves players are making. While this can be construed as scumhunting, it doesn't necessarily mean that it is just because he looks busy. I'll admit, my own play has started somewhat sloppily and I think that his push was warranted...for a time. It looks like he's more concerned with making himself right rather than finding the right answer.
There's also the point that he's actually started skimming my posts and then ignoring what I'm saying. This can be a mistake, but considering the way he so aggressively goes after certain information (and then ignoring what he finds) doesn't lead me to believe so.
That being said, the points Eden brings up against LT make a whole lot of sense. LT's read on me is bosh. He says I'm practically confirmed mafia because I wanted someone to clarify something before I answered their question...What is that? Is that even a thing? I don't think that Val has really done enough to warrant being cleared as town, either. (Though Robik has done the same, and I generally think Robik comes up with pretty solid reads.) LT is scummy, and not just because he thinks I'm scum (which, considering the way this thread is going, is really saying something).
OnceKing is pretty clear town to me. I thought he had a strong town game before, and I think he has one now. Policy lynch weirdness aside, it's clear that he made those posts with a town agenda in mind and that he's done plenty to keep us occupied in trying to solve the game's mystery. His questioning is solid and his logic is pretty easy to follow. I like it.
Sqrt leans town for similar reasons. He doesn't thrust himself into the spotlight like OK does, but it seems like he's pretty focused on finding the right kinds of information. I don't think I have any real reasons to suspect him of anything right now.
Pixelated is slightly town. I've already put together why the initial case against me was derp, but all he has said was "I don't think that's good enough." That's...not a good answer. At all. It's like he's just set on it (which is silly for a town player, because nobody has perfect information except mafia) and not particularly willing to backtrack on anything. Despite this, he's actively looking for information and stuff.
Valenius is null, in case I didn't already make that particularly clear from my earlier reads. I don't think he has done a whole lot yet and looking through his filter leads me to believe that he's either genuinely AWOL or he's trying to lay low. Time will tell.
Robik is town. Another player thrusting themselves into the spotlight, giving reads and generally doing shit that generally gets done in games. Is confirmed best player.
Roland is null. I want to wait more before giving a read on him, because I already know I'm the kind of guy that likes to OMGUS and I feel like if I gave one now that it would be influenced by my confrontational mindset. (Though his read on Robik is actually kinda funny in the sense that, yeah, mafia probably wouldn't do that.)
I want to elaborate more, but some people haven't even gotten to a two page filter yet. More information, specifically from LT, would be great right now.
If Eden and LT are never mafia together and Eden's case on LT is good, then why don't you come to the conclusion that Eden is town? What am I missing?
Because he's either an idiot or scum. I could be convinced of the former even though I'm thinking the latter, though.
Cavalinho: How is it that my case on LT is good and I'm just mafia preying on town weakness? Why does your skepticism about my points and methods stop where your space ends and another's begins?
On March 27 2014 03:21 OnceKing wrote: I need LT to respond to Eden's five points, then. I don't and won't presume to speak for him and my estimation that he made an honest mistake might be biased from LII. Valenius seems to have an idea, though. So Valenius, I'd like you to respond to Eden's points too, as well as give your thoughts on Cav/Eden!
On March 27 2014 03:21 OnceKing wrote: I need LT to respond to Eden's five points, then. I don't and won't presume to speak for him and my estimation that he made an honest mistake might be biased from LII. Valenius seems to have an idea, though. So Valenius, I'd like you to respond to Eden's points too, as well as give your thoughts on Cav/Eden!
OnceKing's initial policy post has come under some flak, seemingly because people don't see the point of it. In my view, it's setting out early what will happen if the day phase goes to shit and it's as split as the last two games. The last two games have been horrific day one's, with a spread vote count across all of the players and as is rightly pointed out by Robik a few pages on; We need to consolidate votes to stop that situation happening again. If it got to a split vote situation, it's much easier for mafia to be the one's controlling who's voted off the first day, either through sheeping onto votes or even just sitting back if town is heading wrong. In theory, in a split situation moving across onto a lurker, or non-contributer would help town in 1) more contribution and 2) lack of split votes. Nexxxt: His earlier vote on Robik seems like just pushing to me, there's not much behind it and robik's too strong to feel flustered by that shit.
TL:DR for this section: I don't feel OnceKing would post this if he were mafia mostly because of the positives it has for town, and negatives for scum. One thing to take away from this, is it transitioned us away from the wtfpostinggarbage stage and got some actual discussion going.
OnceKing's vote on Cavalinho seems reasonable-ish to me. Cav's post that preceded it was wtf worthy; "One of us is going to be dead by the end of today and it isn't going to be me just because I agreed with someone." There's still over half of the day phase left, this is just a ridiculous post. Argue your corner, don't throw down an ultimatum like that; it does absolutely nothing for your towniness.
Lord Tolkien's 'scum trap'; As i've mentioned i think it was just a .. i cant even come up with an adjective to describe it. It, and the follow-up posts were a bad play. If you're wanting to do that, you pick someone who's pretty much in the middle of everything.. average posts.. average town/mafia feeling etc. Stating i'm cleared based off my ONE post is like showing someone a guillotine and asking them to put their head on the block for you.
The issue i'm having with this, is I can't decide where it falls on the scumminess scale. The last game I played with you, you were reasonably good. Unless you were sleep posting, there's no way I would believe you could make that post seriously. idk.
One of Eden's points about you.. "It was also right before he went to sleep. Yeah, it's not a constructive post. That's not automatically scum, especially in isolation." Eden: he never really said he was automatically scum did he? the wording i can see is: "sqrtofneg1 has thus far been fairly disconcerting to me." & "but seems to be a scum lurker to me". It's a reads game, people do misread and have different ideas as to what constitutes a scum post (the game would be boring as shit otherwise). Eden's comment about having never mentioned the right or wrong day (i can only assume you're talking about LT's reasoning for the post timings?!?) is irrelevant to me. If LT's reads were based off of the posting times, then of course that's what he's going to use for his argument?
I'll try and address Eden's other points further down when i go through eden's filter. I don't see much else worth discussing following the above in his filter. Obviously give me questions on shit if you disagree~
Robik I can't believe i'm saying this, but Robik seems pretty solidly town. He's abrasive, but is pushing in the right direction. He has a different read on OK's lynch proposal, but he's also more experienced so he doesn't feel like that would need reinforcing to people.
On March 26 2014 21:00 Pixalated wrote: I really am not sure about this scumbait play and what it means. On one hand it's an easy way to have a free out after making bad reads and getting called out for it, but it seems really stupid for scum to do, and I am not sure if scum would stick out their head like that.
OnceKing sounds town as all fk. I was originally suspicious of his initial "serious" post due to OK's early Day 1 behavior versus early Day 1 LII newbie mafia game and was going to comment on it, but I re-read the old thread and reversed my initial opinion on it (originally thought it was inconsistent, but I reread his case on Amiko and it didn't mention the lurker lynch policy). He's been pushing town towards active discussion since then, asking for reads, and generally steering conversation towards positive goals, so he's establishing himself as town thus far.
IAmRobik also feels town to me, though I still question why he feels OK's post is out of place given the context (unless it was scumbait, that was my first thought). The post is still useful pressure and discussion for town, though, and there is no reason for scum to be so forward, so early on in the day, especially with the possible game-states (no godfather game-state). And his posts subsequent read fairly town.
Actually can you explain this. You say you yourself feel suspicious of OK's first post, yet you yourself ask why Robik thinks its out of place???
My reading of that: He's saying he did feel super suspicous of it, but following re-reading the old thread (Where a similar day1 lurker policy was stated) he changed his mind. He pretty much states why he's changed his mind, and then asks why Robik still thinks it's out of place. If they had the same initial reading for mistrusting OK's post, i could understand your confusion. However, they both disliked it for different reasons, which clear's that argument. However -No 2-, Robik's given kinda good reasoning for his dislike of it, although i don't agree with him, the reasoning is there: which makes LT's question pointless.
Your two post's (won't quote due to the length that this is getting to..) at 12:53 & 13:00 i dislike. In one, you're saying you'd prefer to be lynching him. At this stage should you even be considering that he's going to get lynched? You should be wanting to get the right lynch, a lot can change in a day. Then you ask Eden who he'd be prefering.. same as above. If this is just being done to put pressure on those people.. i can understand it but it didnt seem that way to me.
~~
Sqrt. Your initial leaving time was a bit wierd. I agree with LT on this: It's well past any joking around stage, and you don't post anything on what's just happened. What i REALLY want to see from you, which ahs been completely lacking is solid reasoning on why your reads are what they are. Your entire read on me/LT (granted, i hadn't posted too much so i can forgive you for me) was based around posts you didn't understand. I have no idea why LT chose me, but I guess it was because I was clearly not town at that point and it was a lazy move.
"Robik's playing aggressive, as he normally does. He's been pressuring pretty much everybody, as a town should do. The one thing that I don't like is that he got a town read on my on joke posts before the game. that's strange. I read town."
It's not a strange read at all, it's pretty much in line with everything else that's been said about lurkers and mafia. It's also another one of those circular fucking logic's.. "If i post lots at the start, it'll make me not look like mafia, but then they might think that, so what if i dont post, but then that makes me more of a lurker, so i'll post..etc etc..". It's a decent read in a newbie game, but if you have any idea what you're doing it's not a unthinkable play for you to make.
More than anything, you're jumping on with other people's reads without giving reasoning other than agreeing with their posts. Give some actual thought out reasons. For now, you're towards the top of my scummy totem pole.
"Comes in, makes reads, avoids question. ##Unvote ##Vote: Cavalinho"
In that one post by Cavalinho, he's provided 5x much more than you have so far.
Cavalinho
I don't know what RVS stands for, but i'm assuming it's basically the wtfpostingorgy that happened at the start of the game? If so, you post that OnceKing's post was wierd to make at the time it happened, when we were barely out of RVS. OnceKing's lynching post is the post that GOT us out of RVS. It was a large driving factor in the next pages, and was the indisputable start of proper play. I don't get how it's wierd.
I've mentioned how very much i disliked your ultimatum (for lack of a better word) post about it being either you or eden that dies. just wtf. You're playing mafia, of course you're going to have to deal with people going on to you. It gives you a chance to explain your reasoning, and mitigate any doubts people have about you. You should be fucking relishing the chance to prove yourself as more town when people are questioning you, rather than being overly agressive in return. That's my view of what I'd do anyway.
Your comment to OK about not doing a lynch me-lynch him type play is one I agree with, I dislike that play unless it's a certain situation.. like cop->fake claim cop etc. Day 1, that should never be done.. reads are too flimsy at this stage.
Jumping forward a few posts.. you comment on how LT's read is bosh. You're then using his view on me being cleared(the bait one) as if it's a real read. He's right in that your posts are generally agressive. He say's you're just OMGUS'ing without a case, which you even agree with in your 'story straight' post.
I'll get onto Eden/Roland in a bit, but posting this for now.
Quick totem pole. top doesn't mean i think he's confirmed scum, just highest on my list as it stands.
Valenius - RVS = "Random Voting Stage". And yes it refers to the clusterfuck of nonsense that tends to happen towards the beginning of Day 1 where everyone runs around like chickens with their heads cut off because no one knows where to start.
Sqrt, do you have any original reads to contribute? Your list of reads is just a massive rephrase of everything that has been said by others -- Robik and Eden have voiced all your concerns about LT, and your town read on Robik even copies what I said about him town reading you for many joke posts at the beginning.
Great, then let's talk about HearthstoneValenius. Right now you've made reads based upon the LT-Valenius relationship (which may or may not have been a scumbait?? LT pls respond). Now Valenius has spoken up with some of his own thoughts on current players. Two questions: 1) How do you feel about Valenius now? 2) How do you feel about Valenius's reads?
On March 27 2014 03:21 OnceKing wrote: I need LT to respond to Eden's five points, then. I don't and won't presume to speak for him and my estimation that he made an honest mistake might be biased from LII. Valenius seems to have an idea, though. So Valenius, I'd like you to respond to Eden's points too, as well as give your thoughts on Cav/Eden!
Who is your partner and why is it Lord Tolkein?
You're my partner because you're Lord Tolkien!
This is a really weird interaction and I don't know what to make of it.
Eden says he thinks OK is town or at least leaning town for his lynch all lurkers thing. Now he's asking who his partner is. I'm sure I'm just missing something here, but I'd love an explanation.
On March 27 2014 05:25 OnceKing wrote: Great, then let's talk about HearthstoneValenius. Right now you've made reads based upon the LT-Valenius relationship (which may or may not have been a scumbait?? LT pls respond). Now Valenius has spoken up with some of his own thoughts on current players. Two questions: 1) How do you feel about Valenius now? 2) How do you feel about Valenius's reads?
I'm still deciding about how I feel about Val, because other than that post on his own reads, he hasn't done much. As for his reads, I don't like his read on me, because I'm not scum, but other than that, nothing glares out that I disagree with.
On March 27 2014 03:21 OnceKing wrote: I need LT to respond to Eden's five points, then. I don't and won't presume to speak for him and my estimation that he made an honest mistake might be biased from LII. Valenius seems to have an idea, though. So Valenius, I'd like you to respond to Eden's points too, as well as give your thoughts on Cav/Eden!
Who is your partner and why is it Lord Tolkein?
You're my partner because you're Lord Tolkien!
This is a really weird interaction and I don't know what to make of it.
Eden says he thinks OK is town or at least leaning town for his lynch all lurkers thing. Now he's asking who his partner is. I'm sure I'm just missing something here, but I'd love an explanation.
We're (mostly) fucking around, OK and I play together a lot and a common question we like to throw at suspects is "who is your partner and why is it x". In that case I didn't like that he was prodding Valenius to defend Tolkien*. I don't think he's mafia.
(*: Has it really been Tolkien all this time? God damn it I've been misspelling it like a total chump.)
Now then...
I'm pretty sold on Tolkien/Valenius scumteam right now. Looks like Tolkien really was just trying to get away with clearing his teammate and hoping no one would call him on it.
Rationale: - His town reads are obvious and aren't saying anything new, and he's hesitating to actually call his other reads scum; it seems like no town person should be without clear scum reads at this stage; note that he's not even straight called sqrt, his dirtiest read, scum, he's just said "top of the totem pole" which doesn't actually say "is he scum or not" - He's pre-emptively defending Tolkien which is literally the opposite of what town should be doing in this situation; he should be sitting back on that issue and letting Tolkien defend himself in his own words to get a purer read on Tolkien's motives - He's taking up the sqrt torch and going after what I think is a lame, easy target in sqrt instead of actually scumhunting; I get the sense this is to legitimize Tolkien's sudden and poorly-explained strike at sqrt earlier
Wait, you really read Valenius's post and thought he was scum for it? Maybe I'm a sucker for people calling me town, but that post made me warm inside. It's not so much the conclusions that he draws but there were 2 things that stood out.
1) I think that most people who have read the game so far have you (and kinda sorta Roland) as town. The fact that he's unwilling to put you on that list shows me that he's at least contemplating other scenarios -- I personally have started to get nervous regarding you. It's not enough for me to not call you town, but I am just nervous.
It was this from Cavalinho:
Eden is almost certainly mafia due to the way he pushes information and pounces an anything he perceives as weakness
It does kinda feel like you're jumping on everything that could be perceived as scummy. I think you've been kinda reluctant to call people town, and have sorta backed your way into it. It's easier as mafia to just call everyone mafia than to call everyone town. It honestly could just be your style of pressuring people and then coming up with a conclusion based on their answers, but yeah. IDK. You're almost certainly town. I'm probably just paranoid.
2) The whole tone of his post just reads townie to me. While I might not agree with all of his conclusions, it seems that he's trying to solve the game and he's trying to find reasons to think certain people are town and certain people are scummy and he's really easy to follow...his post flows well.
Contemplating other scenarios isn't alignment-indicative. If a given player is both town and getting on the right track then it's absolutely in the mafia's interest to start "contemplating other scenarios" where this player is mafia.
As for the flow of his post, I thought it seemed somewhat disjointed in the wrong spots. His thought process was pretty clear when explaining the more obvious reads like you and OnceKing, but once he got to sources of controversy like Cavalinho and Tolkien it seemed a lot more jumbled and incoherent. I'm not ultimately too concerned with his tone either way though, it's the content in his case that's jumping out at me more.
And yes, I am in fact pounding away at things I see that are scummy. That's what this game is about. Find the weaknesses and contradictions and ruthlessly exploit them to find the truth.
I don't like the Cavalinho wagon right now. I can see where he's mafia (and I think it's him or Valenius), but all of my plausible mafia scenarios have Tolkien in them. I strongly urge y'all to move to Tolkien, I'm feeling far better about him being mafia than anyone else.
whoa. Now there's an interesting vote count, but what's more interesting to me is the people who haven't voted yet.
Valenius - you haven't casted a vote yet. Why are you not voting for Cavalinho? Robik - you've been one of the most vocal players today and yet you haven't put your name down anywhere. If you were to choose someone by yourself to get lynched right now, who would it be?
##UNVOTE btw. The Cavalinho wagon is huge. I would think that the mafia would offer more resistance if one of their own were on the chopping block so early, so I'm inclined to back off of him right now.
I'll vote when I want to vote on that person. The only one scummy enough for me at the moment would be sqrt, but that would be a wasted vote at the moment.
On March 27 2014 06:23 OnceKing wrote: ##UNVOTE btw. The Cavalinho wagon is huge. I would think that the mafia would offer more resistance if one of their own were on the chopping block so early, so I'm inclined to back off of him right now.
This is my thinking exactly when I saw the count. I think Robik made the same mention upthread too.
Guys, get on Tolkien, he's been given ample opportunities to respond by now and has no explanation for that completely ridiculous "trap" lie that's somehow been swept under the rug today.
On March 27 2014 06:26 Valenius wrote: I'll vote when I want to vote on that person. The only one scummy enough for me at the moment would be sqrt, but that would be a wasted vote at the moment.
On March 27 2014 06:22 OnceKing wrote: whoa. Now there's an interesting vote count, but what's more interesting to me is the people who haven't voted yet.
Valenius - you haven't casted a vote yet. Why are you not voting for Cavalinho? Robik - you've been one of the most vocal players today and yet you haven't put your name down anywhere. If you were to choose someone by yourself to get lynched right now, who would it be?
LT cause I don't like him and i still don't trust you as far as I can spit (which is part of the reason I put out that statement about not liking how many people were pushing on Cavalinho). Like, I don't know what type of hardon Eden has for you but all I see is you asking questions and giving no opinions of your own.
With Cavalino though, I don't want a situation where he clams up and goes super aggressive. He's got enough pressure on him that he should be providing decent reads on everything in a helpful manner (as mentioned in my post). My vote on him doesn't add much at this stage.
On March 27 2014 06:26 Valenius wrote: I'll vote when I want to vote on that person. The only one scummy enough for me at the moment would be sqrt, but that would be a wasted vote at the moment.
On March 27 2014 06:34 sqrtofneg1 wrote: What I don't like is that there's no resistance from Cav, even though this is a huge amount of people bandwagoning him.
Yep, he's definately not posted anything trying to defend himself so far, right? I don't like his defense, but saying there isn't one..
He even posted a couple of hours ago that he'd be back after some work to respond?!?
On March 27 2014 06:22 OnceKing wrote: whoa. Now there's an interesting vote count, but what's more interesting to me is the people who haven't voted yet.
Valenius - you haven't casted a vote yet. Why are you not voting for Cavalinho? Robik - you've been one of the most vocal players today and yet you haven't put your name down anywhere. If you were to choose someone by yourself to get lynched right now, who would it be?
LT cause I don't like him and i still don't trust you as far as I can spit (which is part of the reason I put out that statement about not liking how many people were pushing on Cavalinho). Like, I don't know what type of hardon Eden has for you but all I see is you asking questions and giving no opinions of your own.
He probably sees a sexy and insightful individual. *shrug* I ask a lot of questions because I like to clarify people's positions on things. I like to clarify positions on things because then I can find inconsistencies, such as this: your vote isn't on LT despite how much you don't like him. You waiting on him to defend himself or what?
What the fk did I post this early morning. this is why sleep deprivation is bad for you, mmkay. Don't have much time so I'll be quick about it.
Since I think most of the bases have been covered already: yes, it was a scumbait. I get less coherent in later posts due to REASONS, but the primary scumbait was the Valenius and Pixelated reads and broadly targeted at everyone. The Pixelated read is somewhat plausible of a bait, but the Valenius one was super fking obvious. Like, how the fk am I going to clear Valenius as town when he had ONE post, which is, in standard situations normal, and being one of the first stabs at substantive discussions slightly town leaning (for me). It's so terribly obvious to anyone who reads his filter, that I'm wondering why I felt the need to try and use him as a scumbait too.
I was going to respond quicker to Roland's post on Cavalinho, but I was running myself in circles check something meta Cavalinho was referring to about why Robik was lynched in LII no time to quote the post, ("he was lynched because he was a strong player and he read me as town". He also read me as mafia that game and was wrong, and they also nightkilled him because they thought he was blue) but then I realized this was utterly irrelevant to anything pertinent, deleted it, and just finished my post. The questions were an effort to specifically encourage sqrt and Cavalinho to respond.
I just used Valenius and Pixelated because they gave me the most neutral reads.
On the five points Eden makes, to be clear if I didn't answer it this morning: 1) The bait was initially targeted at everyone, and is the original intent. The second post was delayed because of dead-end meta-analysis, but the refocusing onto Cavalinho and sqrt was done afterwards, correct. Won't argue this, and you can read it for what you want. 2) See above. Town can sheep, but sheeping still means they aren't thinking for themselves, and makes me devalue their analysis as a worst-case scenario. 3) We clearly have different definitions of reads, but he clearly talks about sqrt and Valenius in that post, and it's basically a repeat of what OK said a few posts prior to it regarding why Robik's plays. Same error about sqrt not posting after the RVS phase and everything. Argument about semantics, useless line of questioning. 4) When you made the post, it became pretty clear that it was . Had I not made the Valenius bait so fking obvious, I might've. Then again, I'm not entirely sure why I was so quick to jump the gun, so this is valid. 5) You just made a case about my second post being 20 minutes following up my first post. sqrt had 3 and 1/2 hours since VALENIUS posted his question to OK, and 15 minutes to Robik's WTF to OK's post, and had time to make a joke post referencing Robik joking about never being mafia on TL. Perhaps it's just me, but I really dislike that.
I think at this point I'm resigned to having a scummy Day 1 town meta because "mistakes were made", so have at thee and debate it at your leisure. I've got more productive avenues to explore.
On the Valenius post: sqrt, how do you get a "neutral" read off of it? It's filled decent, non-rehashed analysis (though I think he could explain his reasoning on Pixalated: Valenius what is your read of him, and why do you think that). You don't like it because he calls you scum, yeah, but tell me: why shouldn't we view you as scummy given your current contributions? Your reads post had two pieces of original analysis:
1) is idle speculation of my relationship with Valenius, and to that I say: don't ask, don't tell . Ok, I kid, but it was based off something which can readily be falsified with a single glance at his filter at the time. Like, it's SUPER obvious, and really, why would I as scum try to link myself to my scum partner so early (and vice versa), and with something so easily disputed? Neither does this say that he's town if I'm scum (when I "downgraded" him and gave the actual read, Eden was on the Tolkien/Cavalinho 4eva pairing at the time, so I would have no incentive to change anything about Valenius), just that this is a useless line of inquiry.
2) idle speculation that Pixelated is blue (don't speculate about other people being blue. I talked about blues in my admittedly disastrous Day 1, but that's a nono and I was only making a soft vet claim, as opposed to calling someone out explicitly as blue (and even that's scummy). DON'T DO THAT AS TOWN.
Alot of this also applies to Eden's recent post, and while it confuses my read of him, he still seems town to me. If aggressive in his scumhunting. No need for a double lynch like LII gaiz.
You know what, fk it. ##Vote: sqrt
The read wasn't strong at all (and I was wavering between hiim and Cavalinho), but after those posts, this is my strongest read, and something which people really should be talking about more because fk.
Currently, it seems myself and Cavalinho are the likely lynch targets thus far, and I would submit sqrt as another. Let's keep the votes within this group unless something major comes up.
LT: 1-4 we're good on but your 5 is fuckin with me. I believe the point being that you pulled in the trap so soon after you set it, which is an unreasonably short amount of time. Who's gonna ever fall for it so quickly? That's got nothing to do with the other time differences like the 3 1/2 hours w/ Valenius, Robik's 15 minutes to me and yet you're comparing it for some unknown reason.
On March 27 2014 02:51 Eden1892 wrote: I'm going to address you directly once more, Cavalinho, and then until you demonstrate you're capable of reading properly and/or arguing in good faith, I'm not going to address you further.
There's a plethora of things you haven't addressed. The issue is that most of them aren't really arguable (not in the sense that there is no legitimate counterargument but more literally that they can't be argued). You're doing a lot of subtle things with the way you write; I raised the example of how your tone kept changing to match what Robik was doing re: OnceKing, for instance. You haven't said anything about it. I don't expect you to say anything productive or helpful, though, on that front, and it isn't worth arguing out. (You will say that either I am misinterpreting your tone or that your tone changes are coincidental, and it will simply be up to the audience to decide whether you are lying or I am wrong.)
Even still, there are things I've raised which you could have argued but have elected not to argue, probably because they're unarguable (in the sense that there is no legitimate counterargument). You've repeatedly straw manned the arguments against you instead of addressing them charitably and reasonably. At no point did your questions, and responses to the answers you received, have any apparent constructive direction. Your voting rationale given was entirely post-hoc and despite your last message here it's obvious that you are sticking to your vote in spite of the overwhelming evidence against it, probably because you're desperate scum latching onto any last shred of capacity to cast doubt on me that you have.
---
Why are all of you so quick to accept Tolkein's blatant lies about his test? Please. Until someone can rebut the five points raised in this post and establish that none of them are proof beyond a reasonable doubt that Tolkein is lying, no one in this thread has any reason to believe that Tolkein is being honest.
You say that there are things that I could have argued in yet you don't post what any of them are or where I could have missed them. Since you are just the best player in all the known universe I think you should enlighten us and tell us what I've been missing. I'm directing all of my questions and answers towards you (which you conveniently gloss over) and how you're deliberately ignoring what I'm saying in favor of trying to discredit me.
I've said that either you or LT is mafia, but you just skim over that and call me an idiot and come to the conclusion that I'm saying both of you are mafia together. That isn't even counting the other times you've skimmed my posts and just came to the conclusion that I'm scum. (Filter dive if you want them, I've focused on them pretty extensively.)
Furthermore, you keep saying "straw man" and again fail to provide examples. Everything you say about my arguments really just makes sense at a cursory glance but, after any type of in-depth reading, it's clear that nothing you say about me or my arguments makes any actual sense.
While we're on the topic, why is it that you consistently push me as scummy while voting someone else? That's like...What? You've egged on this wagon ridiculously hard, while voting someone else, and still haven't come to the conclusion that I'm town based on the votes piling up on me.
I want to ask for your reads on all the players in the game right now. You keep pushing people as scummy but you only have like two townreads, both of which being universally read by everyone as townie.
Also, I'm rescinding my townread on sqrt. That vote was absurdly dumb.
On March 27 2014 06:51 OnceKing wrote: LT: 1-4 we're good on but your 5 is fuckin with me. I believe the point being that you pulled in the trap so soon after you set it, which is an unreasonably short amount of time. Who's gonna ever fall for it so quickly? That's got nothing to do with the other time differences like the 3 1/2 hours w/ Valenius, Robik's 15 minutes to me and yet you're comparing it for some unknown reason.
Typing on phone but. I'm not sure, I think it was just stupidity. i was low on sleep, not entirely sure either.
can't see the youtube video but I assume it's about Day 1 incompetence.
The neutral read was from before he did his reads, and after he posted his reads, I didn't change my read because the reads really wasn't anything new.
On the Valenius post: sqrt, how do you get a "neutral" read off of it? It's filled decent, non-rehashed analysis (though I think he could explain his reasoning on Pixalated: Valenius what is your read of him, and why do you think that). You don't like it because he calls you scum, yeah, but tell me: why shouldn't we view you as scummy given your current contributions? Your reads post had two pieces of original analysis:
Sorry, are you saying pixelated called me scum (dont think he did). Or are you going back to talking to sqrt and me calling him scum?
On March 27 2014 06:55 sqrtofneg1 wrote: The neutral read was from before he did his reads, and after he posted his reads, I didn't change my read because the reads really wasn't anything new.
On March 27 2014 06:55 sqrtofneg1 wrote: The neutral read was from before he did his reads, and after he posted his reads, I didn't change my read because the reads really wasn't anything new.
can you english
Translation (Correct me if im wrong sqrt)
His neutral read on me was before I posted my long read post. Since thoroughly digesting that long post, he feels nothing in there was new, so it hasn't changed any of his reads.
Furthermore Eden, could you explain why cutting discussion short is pro town? All town has is talking, and if you don't want to talk to clarify what you actually feel about me...That isn't good. Not from a town perspective, anyway.
Meant I was asking about your read on pixalated. You say you dont like the posts and thats it. It makes me uncomfortable in am otherwose good post.
Sqrt I meant your responsr to OK. You're saying you're still deciding because he just post his reads and NOTHING MUCH but you did as well. And less content and original contributions compared to it. And you di ssd like his scumread on you. Whatever, I dislike mine but so what. You and I give off scum vibes. Deal.
I also started on that post after robik posted in response to eden so I didnt see alot of posts after.
- He concedes point #1. ("Won't argue this, and you can read it for what you want.") - He concedes point #2. ("Town can sheep, but sheeping still means they aren't thinking for themselves, and makes me devalue their analysis as a worst-case scenario." in response to the assertion that his test isn't alignment-indicative) - He concedes point #4. ("Then again, I'm not entirely sure why I was so quick to jump the gun, so this is valid.")
- He actually doesn't concede point #3. Here is the sequence of relevant posts.
On March 26 2014 13:47 Pixalated wrote: I don't like how he cleared both sqrt and val. Already explained why I don't feel that Val's questions make him town, and sqrt posting random stuff doesn't mean much.
What this means about his alignment I'm not sure. Could be mafia trying to get cred by claiming that people are townie and having 'right' reads when they flip.
On March 26 2014 19:13 Lord Tolkien wrote: Valenius is super town in my eyes, he's cleared for me.
Pixelated is neutral or slightly scummy to me.
On March 26 2014 20:29 Pixalated wrote: In response to Onceking's question before I left - Eden is town. His logic is sound, I agree with his reads, and I like how he pressured Robik.
The one thing that I can agree with LT about is the sqrts thing. Upon my reread of the thread I noted that he left AFTER onceking started talking policy and Robik started pressuring him (I initially thought that he left before). I find it odd that he didn't take the time to make at least a quick comment on it before going to sleep. Still, it isn't enough to judge imo, and I find it oddly suspicious how he reads him to be scummier than Cav, who has had some very faulty logic (will get to that in abit).
On March 26 2014 20:31 Lord Tolkien wrote: Was trying to scumbait with it when questioning Cavalinho and sqrt. Was trying to see if they would piggyback off of it. Went back and deleted those sections specifically to try.
Pixelated is leaning town. He's had more posts and has given reads on sqrt and Valenius, but the main crux of their points have been similar to what OK and others in the thread have said (not much to be said this early into the game, however). He was however the first to defend OK's post (outside of OK), and rightly so. If we're continuing with the Cavalinho lynch, it is...unlikely for them to simultaneously bandwagon on a possible lynch and defend the person in question.
Pixalated's original post on sqrt was not a read. Full stop, end of story. Tolkien is going to quibble about definitions until he hangs because it's his only way out, but "sqrt posting random stuff doesn't mean much" doesn't say "sqrt is X alignment." It's just not a read, there is no room to argue about this.
The problem is that he explicitly said that he "went back and deleted those sections specifically to try" this. This is implying that the part that followed was intended to be in the original post. Again, Pixalated did not give a read on sqrt, so everything Tolkien allegedly "would have said" in the original post could not have actually been in that post. As noted: he's lying.
- He also doesn't concede point #5. He's alleging that I'm inconsistent in my application of criticism regarding the timing of specific posts. He is, of course, completely wrong here as well. My argument is that his supposed "trap" post for Cavalinho and sqrt came a full 20 minutes after his supposed "bait" post, when logically if you were really constructing a trap like that, you would have no reason not to include the trap question in the same post as the bait. You would have thought through the entire process -- "how will they respond to my question? will they take the bait? what would it mean for their alignment if they do X thing?" -- and there's simply no way you would forget for 20 minutes to ask the crucial question to set it up. It just doesn't logically follow as the thought process of someone who was intentionally setting up bait for a trap. This has nothing to do with whether sqrt would have taken a few hours to make a real post, or whatever else.
In conclusion, Tolkien has either conceded or unsatisfactorily responded to every point I've made demonstrating that he is lying, he hasn't established anything remotely resembling reasonable doubt that he was lying, and there is no credible townsided explanation for his lies. Kill him.
On March 27 2014 06:55 sqrtofneg1 wrote: The neutral read was from before he did his reads, and after he posted his reads, I didn't change my read because the reads really wasn't anything new.
can you english
Translation (Correct me if im wrong sqrt)
His neutral read on me was before I posted my long read post. Since thoroughly digesting that long post, he feels nothing in there was new, so it hasn't changed any of his reads.
On March 27 2014 06:55 sqrtofneg1 wrote: The neutral read was from before he did his reads, and after he posted his reads, I didn't change my read because the reads really wasn't anything new.
can you english
Translation (Correct me if im wrong sqrt)
His neutral read on me was before I posted my long read post. Since thoroughly digesting that long post, he feels nothing in there was new, so it hasn't changed any of his reads.
That the gist of it?
Yes.
Why did you vote me? Was it really based off the fact that I made a promise to respond to a post later on? Is that supposed to be a legitimate scumread?
Don't know, I just pulled his filter up a minute ago and I'm reading. I'm inclined to think town solely based on the fact that the people pushing him as a lynch are setting off my bullshit radar, but that's not good enough for me because it's not based off of something he's personally done.
On March 27 2014 06:55 sqrtofneg1 wrote: The neutral read was from before he did his reads, and after he posted his reads, I didn't change my read because the reads really wasn't anything new.
can you english
Translation (Correct me if im wrong sqrt)
His neutral read on me was before I posted my long read post. Since thoroughly digesting that long post, he feels nothing in there was new, so it hasn't changed any of his reads.
That the gist of it?
Yes.
Why did you vote me? Was it really based off the fact that I made a promise to respond to a post later on? Is that supposed to be a legitimate scumread?
Slightly. Putting off that question for a long time really looked scummy.
On March 27 2014 07:19 Eden1892 wrote: Cavalinho I'm off of you and trying hard to get someone besides you lynched, calm down and help me kill Tolkien if you think he's scum.
I'm perfectly calm, I'm just looking for answers. And I think there's a scum between you and LT, and I really want to get to the root of why the way you're working the way you are first.
You pushed me as scummy for quite a while, even when you were voting someone else. If voting someone else constitutes "off of you," why were you off of me and still trying to get me lynched? Why are you deliberately ignoring what I'm telling you? Or is "off of you" just when you supposedly stop talking to me?
On March 27 2014 06:55 sqrtofneg1 wrote: The neutral read was from before he did his reads, and after he posted his reads, I didn't change my read because the reads really wasn't anything new.
can you english
Translation (Correct me if im wrong sqrt)
His neutral read on me was before I posted my long read post. Since thoroughly digesting that long post, he feels nothing in there was new, so it hasn't changed any of his reads.
That the gist of it?
Yes.
Why did you vote me? Was it really based off the fact that I made a promise to respond to a post later on? Is that supposed to be a legitimate scumread?
Slightly. Putting off that question for a long time really looked scummy.
So promising to come back and answer it is scummy? Also, why is it that I gave an answer and you're still on your vote?
Heading to the gym soon, will be back later tonight.
First of all, people picking on him and pushing a lynch for making one off-topic comment about his past mafia draws (or lack therein) are idiots or scum. I don't know which and I don't care, shape up or get voted off. That one comment in isolation isn't alignment-indicative.
His initial reads list / first serious page is on the weak side to me. I don't think any of his reads are especially off-base but they're not adding anything to the discussion and he wasn't asking any questions to develop them into unique insights.
His vote for Cavalinho was bad, I literally cannot understand what he was trying to say when he voted for Cavalinho there. What question was open for Cavalinho to answer? I don't follow.
Nothing after the vote really sticks out to me.
All in all his play is sloppy but nothing jumps out to me as either alignment. Again I'm inclined to think he's sloppy town rather than sloppy mafia because everyone pushing him is setting off my bullshit radar; he looks like a good choice for an opportunistic mafia player to get mislynched. But all I see is sloppy play alignment aside.
Anyway, I'm still on LT. He basically typed a bunch of nonsense in response to point 5, then when I called him on it he said "oh I must have been low on sleep". So no real response there and he wasn't low on sleep when he responded to the point so what he's saying really doesn't make sense.
On March 27 2014 07:19 Eden1892 wrote: Cavalinho I'm off of you and trying hard to get someone besides you lynched, calm down and help me kill Tolkien if you think he's scum.
I'm perfectly calm, I'm just looking for answers. And I think there's a scum between you and LT, and I really want to get to the root of why the way you're working the way you are first.
You pushed me as scummy for quite a while, even when you were voting someone else. If voting someone else constitutes "off of you," why were you off of me and still trying to get me lynched? Why are you deliberately ignoring what I'm telling you? Or is "off of you" just when you supposedly stop talking to me?
Also, reads pls.
zzz
My suspicions have been pretty clear and easy to follow. First I had you pegged, then Tolkien had a bad post that was soft-defending you so I had you two as scum team. He lied which got me to switch vote from you to him, but until I decided Valenius might well be Tolkien's scum partner instead of you, I had you both as scum, so of course I'm going to push for you both to die.
Reads:
Tolkien -- kill him now seriously why aren't all 8 of us non-Tolkien people voting him and Tolkien self-voting out of shame yet
Cavalinho/Valenius -- my two main candidates for Tolkien's partner, liking Valenius more than Cavalinho if Tolkien flips guilty, and if he's inno then Valenius moves down significantly and Cavalinho is my top pick for scum
sqrt -- dude hasn't given me any reason to think he's town, thankfully my three probable bad guys all have by pushing bad cases on him at some point
Pixalated -- true neutral he's talking but not giving me enough to really use
Robik -- active, engaging, aggressive, forthright. town
OnceKing -- extensive meta experience with him, this is probably his town game imo -- I get why people dislike that he plays 20 Questions but I think he's town, the questions are his way of contributing; only thing that's bothering me is that he hasn't made an explicit case yet, lot of following from what I can see so far
Jarvis -- mega posts at one point that screamed town to me, great reads and rationale, but hasn't said anything since and I'd really like more from him
so
Kill Pile: Tolkien, Cavalinho OR Valenius ???? starring ???? as ????: sqrt, Pixalated The A-Team: Robik, OnceKing, Jarvis, Eden
- The slip in the followup post. I never said anything about whether this is the right or wrong day. Looks to me like lies are piling up on top of lies here.
Why are you dodging answering this? Context: this is point 5 of eden's agurement. Here's your answer to it:
5) You just made a case about my second post being 20 minutes following up my first post. sqrt had 3 and 1/2 hours since VALENIUS posted his question to OK, and 15 minutes to Robik's WTF to OK's post, and had time to make a joke post referencing Robik joking about never being mafia on TL. Perhaps it's just me, but I really dislike that.
1) @ sqrt: Huh. You're right. I just went back to look at LII and there was the same rule in place. No one mentioned it there, when I brought it up then. Doesn't change my read on you, but thanks.
2) Regarding Eden's 5th point:
- The slip in the followup post. I never said anything about whether this is the right or wrong day. Looks to me like lies are piling up on top of lies here.
I'm not sure how I misread this in the recent posts into referring to the followup post about why I thought sqrt was scummy based on his timestamp, and I apologize for confusing fking everyone, including myself apparently. I thought the fifth point was why I thought sqrt was scummy based on that one post and the timing of it.
how to misread (spaces between bullets or numbers pls because i cannae read gud).
As for this in particular, I interpreted Eden's statement on mafia posting early reads list on Day 1 as basically stating that it isn't the time and place for such reads (and ultimately such fail bait attempt). His main argument was that my view of Valenius and Pixalated was too solid, both of which were my unsubtle scumbait attempts. At that point, I (think) I figured: whelp, no one's going to fall for those now, and I may as well give it up.
I understand that this looks horrendous, but eh.
Additionally Pixalated, is there anything else you have to say? Do you have any reads?
Okay looking at the vote count, of my three mafia suspects, two of them are on a low-poster for reasons that aren't alignment indicative, one of them is by himself on me for silly reasons, and the one who's alone on me is also leading the lynch count and, until a few hours ago, has been leading without serious opposition.
I think Cavalinho isn't mafia at the moment. Looks like Tolkien/Valenius. The push on sqrt didn't begin in earnest until I started pushing hard on Tolkien. I'll revisit this should either of my suspects flip town, but I'm definitely thinking Tolkien and probably thinking Valenius for his scum partner.
Additionally this is telling:
On March 27 2014 06:45 Lord Tolkien wrote: Currently, it seems myself and Cavalinho are the likely lynch targets thus far, and I would submit sqrt as another. Let's keep the votes within this group unless something major comes up.
If Tolkien is mafia then I'm nearly positive both Cavalinho and sqrt are both mafia. I can't think of any good reason why a mafia player would say "Okay guys, let's make sure we kill one of these three guys" and include his teammate as one of the three.
Question time: Pixalated: Which of Tolkien or Cavalinho do you think is more scummy and why? RolandJarvis: Need you to weigh in on Tolkien, Cavalinho, Valenius and sqrt and tell me what you think of their votes for one another and interactions. sqrtofneg1: Why is your vote on Cavalinho again?
Though I don't really like your read on sqrt, I think that this is a good lynch for today.
Well, it's not even your read, it's like the reasoning for the read. You seem to have issues with almost everything that can be regarded as poor play...But you townread sqrt for it. The reasoning makes sense, but it doesn't really feel consistent with the rest of what you were pushing throughout today. How strong would you say that read is, and if LT flips town, how would that mar and change the rest of your reads, barring night chat?
Initially I thought he was quantifying some valid concerns about my "Lynch all Lurkers" policy. However on closer inspection the question he asked me was really pointless -- it was a closed question with an obvious answer he even implied in his post.
Everything else is more or less fine until he makes his big post here of reads, except all he really did with it was make a glorified summary of what's happened in the game so far and echoed popular opinions. Let's break it down:
OnceKing's initial policy post has come under some flak, seemingly because people don't see the point of it. In my view, it's setting out early what will happen if the day phase goes to shit and it's as split as the last two games. The last two games have been horrific day one's, with a spread vote count across all of the players and as is rightly pointed out by Robik a few pages on; We need to consolidate votes to stop that situation happening again. If it got to a split vote situation, it's much easier for mafia to be the one's controlling who's voted off the first day, either through sheeping onto votes or even just sitting back if town is heading wrong. In theory, in a split situation moving across onto a lurker, or non-contributer would help town in 1) more contribution and 2) lack of split votes. Nexxxt: His earlier vote on Robik seems like just pushing to me, there's not much behind it and robik's too strong to feel flustered by that shit.
Words, words, words. And really what does this entire paragraph give us? "Robik's right, we should consolidate our votes". And even though he says that he doesn't want to give the mafia control of the votes, he still refused to vote for a long time until someone else had voted for his target (sqrt, who LT voted for). Why do this if you're so suspicious of him? He was even Valenius's top scum read later in the post:
Quick totem pole. top doesn't mean i think he's confirmed scum, just highest on my list as it stands.
Sqrt Cavalinho Pixelated
Lord Tolkien
OnceKing Robik
Idk where roland / eden fit into that yet.
He posts another massive spiel on Lord Tolkien that boils down to "what he did was bad" and yet mysteriously has no read on him. Robik gets the same treatment as I did: Valenius parrots the consensus in the thread about these players that Robik's being pushy and town.
Now here's an important part:
Sqrt. -snip-
"Robik's playing aggressive, as he normally does. He's been pressuring pretty much everybody, as a town should do. The one thing that I don't like is that he got a town read on my on joke posts before the game. that's strange. I read town."
It's not a strange read at all, it's pretty much in line with everything else that's been said about lurkers and mafia. It's also another one of those circular fucking logic's.. "If i post lots at the start, it'll make me not look like mafia, but then they might think that, so what if i dont post, but then that makes me more of a lurker, so i'll post..etc etc..". It's a decent read in a newbie game, but if you have any idea what you're doing it's not a unthinkable play for you to make.
More than anything, you're jumping on with other people's reads without giving reasoning other than agreeing with their posts. Give some actual thought out reasons. For now, you're towards the top of my scummy totem pole.
"Comes in, makes reads, avoids question. ##Unvote ##Vote: Cavalinho"
In that one post by Cavalinho, he's provided 5x much more than you have so far.
Here Valenius criticizes Sqrt's assessment of Robik by saying that it's not a strange read at all but then ends up contradicting it and saying the opposite as well as introduce doubt into it by saying it's WIFOM (which is quite a stretch!). Then, irony of ironies, he attacks Sqrt for not saying original things with something I already said! And finally, I disagree very much with his implication that the Sqrt post he quotes is scummy -- I actually read it incredibly town. He cites his reason for suspicion as a lack of contribution but in fact Sqrt's post is very concise and clear, providing a huge amount of information about his motivations.
Then he refuses to vote for a while on the grounds that his vote would be wasteful which is wrong again. Votes are the town's most powerful tool and indicate purpose. Valenius proceeds to try to nudge people into voting for Sqrt again and after one person does so he finally feels safe to act upon what he was saying the whole time and put down a vote.
Altogether Valenius's filter smacks of fear and unwillingness to stick his head out. Valenius is scum. ##UNVOTE VOTE: Valenius
-- Other comments: LT - I'm not done with you yet. You've basically just admitted that you're not being helpful at all towards the town by saying you have no idea what you were writing, then upon saying that you still didn't write anything. My analysis of Valenius has him over you but at this point I certainly don't mind you getting lynched either.
On March 27 2014 14:17 Cavalinho wrote: Well, it's not even your read, it's like the reasoning for the read. You seem to have issues with almost everything that can be regarded as poor play...But you townread sqrt for it. The reasoning makes sense, but it doesn't really feel consistent with the rest of what you were pushing throughout today. How strong would you say that read is, and if LT flips town, how would that mar and change the rest of your reads, barring night chat?
There's a difference between "poor play" and "scum play," though they often correlate. My townread on him isn't for poor play, it's because my scumreads are blatantly trying to push him as the lynch. So it's certainly weak. No comment on "if LT flips town" because I'm still working out the practical ramifications of that, I'll cross that bridge if we get there.
OnceKing makes a pretty good case on Valenius there. I want Tolkien more and we need to consolidate the wagons before the end of the day, but if Valenius goes over Tolkien that's not going to bother me much.
I have read all the posts since I left, although without taking detailed notes this time. I have a mental image of each of you now so hopefully I can read quicker.
I also read day 1 of the game LII.
My snap reactions:
I had trouble following the Lord Tolkien "trap" incident. This is obviously a big deal so I'll look at it in some detail. My gut says Lord Tolkien is town. He has taken the heat in stride and is able to talk about multiple topics in detail simultaneously. He had one throw away line at the end of a post that reads very town to me when he said keep the wagons to {Lord Tolkien, Lord Tolkien's top scum read, Cavalinho - the other big wagon}. People reacting with "why would he do that as mafia, what does that make the other 2?": I think the simpler explanation is he thinks having defined wagons early is important for the town.
In the previously low content set, Valenius appeared and left me with good feelings. I know his big post got some negative reviews.
The other previously low content poster sqrtofneg1 failed to make any impression as I read linearly. That's a bad sign. After I iso I'll see if it's careless reading by me or scummyness by him.
Similar to this game, Cavalinho was a day 1 wagon. In fact he was the day 1 lynch. That's about where the similarities end. Notice how in that game, Cavalinho has confident opinions about lots of topics from the beginning to the end. He has constructive discussions. When the pressure comes he keeps his cool for a long time, but then he eventually snaps and goes hard at his attacker with OMGUS. Except he immediately backs off, clears his attacker, and puts his vote on his preferred wagon and pushes it hard. He announces he's unwilling to change for self-preservation.
Contrast to this game: It's like Cavalinho is only talking to eden. The confidence is gone. His focus has gone from wide to narrow. I think (need to confirm) his reads changed in convenient ways. It's like he's a totally different player!
So yeah, I still think Cavalinho is mafia and Cabalinho is the best lynch today.
There were some posts saying... hey that's too many votes on Cavalinho! nobody is defending Cavalinho! ...therefore Cavalinho is probably town.
I strongly, strongly disagree with this logic.
Another contrast with his previous game is Cavalinho had defenders on day 1 of the previous game and has no defenders this game. theDragoon (a mafia) had a strong town read on Cavalinho. When a town is wagoned it's so hard for at least one mafia to resist defending them. They get credibility from being right that they can spend later.
"Don't catch a falling knife"
I want you to imagine you are a mafia this game and Cavalinho is your partner. Eden and Roland are gunning for Cavalinho. They make substantial cases. They have lots of people calling them town. Cavalinho has a good chance of being lynched. You are going to defend Cavalinho? Really? Like say you think his posts make him town? I don't believe that*.
If you are mafia and Cavalinho is your partner you can't defend him. Certainly not when he was the only wagon.
* Not that it's physically impossible for that to happen, just that it's very improbable and the assumption of the posts I'm arguing against is that mafia would most likely defend their partner when he's a runaway day 1 wagon.
On March 27 2014 22:39 RolandJarvis wrote: There were some posts saying... hey that's too many votes on Cavalinho! nobody is defending Cavalinho! ...therefore Cavalinho is probably town.
I strongly, strongly disagree with this logic.
Another contrast with his previous game is Cavalinho had defenders on day 1 of the previous game and has no defenders this game. theDragoon (a mafia) had a strong town read on Cavalinho. When a town is wagoned it's so hard for at least one mafia to resist defending them. They get credibility from being right that they can spend later.
"Don't catch a falling knife"
I want you to imagine you are a mafia this game and Cavalinho is your partner. Eden and Roland are gunning for Cavalinho. They make substantial cases. They have lots of people calling them town. Cavalinho has a good chance of being lynched. You are going to defend Cavalinho? Really? Like say you think his posts make him town? I don't believe that*.
If you are mafia and Cavalinho is your partner you can't defend him. Certainly not when he was the only wagon.
* Not that it's physically impossible for that to happen, just that it's very improbable and the assumption of the posts I'm arguing against is that mafia would most likely defend their partner when he's a runaway day 1 wagon.
Hah, I'm going the exact opposite way you are on this. I think it's comparatively rare that mafia try to defuse a town wagon. They're typically okay with letting it roll in my experience. And I don't expect hypo mafia!Cavalinho's partner to outright try to defuse his wagon; typically only town outright defend a mafia being wagon'd, but I would totally expect people to be pushing alternative cases. Seems like until just recently, this wasn't really happening; people were coming up with alternative cases (Tolkien, sqrt, recently Valenius), but at the same time it was kinda understood that Cavalinho was a caught mafia.
Everything you said makes sense, but I think you can realistically go in the opposite direction and also make sense. (This is why we typically just say "it's WIFOM" in this case.)
Regarding Cavalinho himself I don't really see where he's been all that different, looking at his filters from LII and LIV. I didn't really see him engaging people all that much in LII. Granted I probably need to reread his filter to see, it was kind of a quick skim. I'd be okay with Cavalinho tomorrow maybe but all of my plausible scumteams involve Lord Tolkien so I'm sticking with him.
On March 27 2014 22:39 RolandJarvis wrote: There were some posts saying... hey that's too many votes on Cavalinho! nobody is defending Cavalinho! ...therefore Cavalinho is probably town.
I strongly, strongly disagree with this logic.
Another contrast with his previous game is Cavalinho had defenders on day 1 of the previous game and has no defenders this game. theDragoon (a mafia) had a strong town read on Cavalinho. When a town is wagoned it's so hard for at least one mafia to resist defending them. They get credibility from being right that they can spend later.
"Don't catch a falling knife"
I want you to imagine you are a mafia this game and Cavalinho is your partner. Eden and Roland are gunning for Cavalinho. They make substantial cases. They have lots of people calling them town. Cavalinho has a good chance of being lynched. You are going to defend Cavalinho? Really? Like say you think his posts make him town? I don't believe that*.
If you are mafia and Cavalinho is your partner you can't defend him. Certainly not when he was the only wagon.
* Not that it's physically impossible for that to happen, just that it's very improbable and the assumption of the posts I'm arguing against is that mafia would most likely defend their partner when he's a runaway day 1 wagon.
I feel like I may be to blame for the quick push away from Cavalinho as I inserted that seed of doubt regarding the quick formation of that wagon and the lack of opposition to it. I think that the trio of Cavalinho, LT and OK contain both mafia, although OKs post are growing on me as the game has progressed (specifically his last post where he outlines why he thinks Valenius is mafia -- a sentiment I disagree with).
Also, everyone calling for me to vote. Chill out. We still have 8hrs in the day. I'm not sure what me voting now versus later will achieve. As long as we are lynching between Cav and LT, I'm happy throwing my vote down on either one of them by the end of the day. Let's just make sure that AT LEAST one of them is a wagon for today.
Don't have much time to talk today before the Day ends, I'll try and post via phone later.
1) OK, while your post has made me re-evaluate Valenius and particularly my town read on that post (I'll try and review his filter if I have time and post about it), but at this stage it's probably a better Day 2 lynch to pursue. There is probably not enough time to get a wagon behind him at this point, so I would recommend focusing on myself and Cavalinho for a wagon.
2) I want Pixalated to post some of his reads when he wakes up. I only just noticed his sleep post.
3) I still don't like sqrt and I don't know why Eden is clearing him as town. If we were ignoring that I, Cavalinho, and Valenius apparently all have scumreads or scummy reads on him (there probably is one scum among us, TBH)
4) I'm incredulous that Eden has been trying to say that he hasn't planned out what happens if I'm green (and we'll cross that bridge when we get there), when he already decided to talk about what happens if when I flip red. First let's get through Day 1, before constructing scenarios of who's mafia partner with who, because it's all idle speculation until we get a flip. But whatever, I'm done dealing with his shit. Some of it's really just skirting the line of what's acceptable.
yo, my sleep post was like really long ago and before I asked you another question. This is so many mistakes that you have made in reading the game... please step it up if you are town, because that's what im leaning on the moment. More elaboration on my thought process soon.
I haven't posted much today since some unexpected stuff came up, and I haven't had the time to follow the thread/post (only skimmed through). Reading it now of course.
I believe that LT's trap is actually legitimate despite how bad it looks initially.
The first point that supports this is the trap itself + Show Spoiler +
I still need to read the LIII mafia game thoroughly. However.
OnceKing sounds town as all fk. I was originally suspicious of his initial "serious" post due to OK's early Day 1 behavior versus early Day 1 LII newbie mafia game and was going to comment on it, but I re-read the old thread and reversed my initial opinion on it (originally thought it was inconsistent, but I reread his case on Amiko and it didn't mention the lurker lynch policy). He's been pushing town towards active discussion since then, asking for reads, and generally steering conversation towards positive goals, so he's establishing himself as town thus far.
IAmRobik also feels town to me, though I still question why he feels OK's post is out of place given the context (unless it was scumbait, that was my first thought). The post is still useful pressure and discussion for town, though, and there is no reason for scum to be so forward, so early on in the day, especially with the possible game-states (no godfather game-state). And his posts subsequent read fairly town.
Valenius is super town in my eyes, he's cleared for me.
Pixelated is neutral or slightly scummy to me.
Eden feels even more town for me. He's actively pushing the Cavalinho case and scumhunting aggressively in Day 1, while being the most active contributor to the thread thus far. Clearest town poster in my mind, as he's giving reasoned arguments here.
Cavalinho sounds...well, aggressive in all his posts. And he's OMGUSing without presenting a case, period. But given his past game behavior, he also does this when he's town so I'm not sure if my scrumread on him is wrong. Like, this is almost a repeat of LII Day 1 in terms of the Cavalinho lynch progression, however without any substance from him. I'm leaving him as possible scum atm tho I'm confused by it. Maybe the most scummiest read I have, even his past town play aside. Like I'll answer your question when you answer mine. and No, I simply felt like you were dodging the question. should mark him as clear scum, but...might just be his playstyle.
I also happen to think his OMGUS vote is him trying to look innocent because he's aware of his meta (not the post beforehand he noted that Robik townread him in a previous game because he OMGUS'd then), but that can go either way. What's telling is that he fails to develop his vote, he just puts it down and insists it'll be me or him today. That's dumb and not what a town player should be doing.
This is actually a strong analysis of what I was trying to say.
You know what, Cavalinho isn't angry and pissed off enough to have the righteous indignation like his LII newbie game, nor still tries to contribute. Or hell, contribute an actual case for his OMGUSing.
sqrtofneg1 has thus far been fairly disconcerting to me. I indulged him with the Hearthstone convo, and I think that's irrelevant to the thread thus far. It was a fair shot at getting something going, if inflating his filter/post. After the first actual serious post to pop up Day 1 (the OK policy lynch), he posted this Fun fact: I've been mafia once, only once, in my fair amount of irl games. and didn't respond to the looming topic at hand, then had a sleep post. Like, its non-contributive lurking at best. There was definitely things available to comment on at the time of his sleep post. Hell, by the time of that post, IAmRobik had already made his wtf post about OnceKing's lynch policy post. It piggybacks off IAmRobik's joke posts, but he at least follows up with substance after there's clearly something to respond to. He still has time to become an active contributor, but seems to be a scum lurker to me. Probably my primary lynch target today because I'm still fking confused by the signals given off by Cavalinho's playstyle and posting patterns.
On March 26 2014 13:31 IAmRobik wrote: RE: Sqrt
In what world does a mafia come into the game and start talking to himself for 10 posts? Mafia has all the reason in the world to sit back and not do shit and contribute when something is happening and then push some random town who is on the chopping blocks. I don't give a damn if it was 10 posts of filler about how he's doing today and how his HS run was going.
The exact same reason you were pushing on OK for: because it's good to make the appearance of contribution. idgaf about the HS posts too much, but the fact he continued the joke posting and made a sleep post before contributing anything useful makes me unhappy.
Quick point to RolandJarvis before the plunge, that was a continued joke post. I was jokingly referencing the LII newbie game where I was OMGUSing OK hard for focusing on me Day 1 (mostly for some inconsistencies in his case). Posted that and the correction right as OK was posting the policy lynch post (note the policy lynch post being nestled between that post and the edit), which is the first serious post of the game, which should have been a clue. I'm overall happy with your contribution, however, and I would recommend you read the LII newbie game, since quite a few of the players here were in that game (and should give you a general idea of our playstyles as town (I think all of us present played as town that game), so you can get a feel for us. You voiced the concern about OK only voicing his read on IAmRobik, but his playstyle is (at least, going off his LII and stated gameplay) to only give his strongest reads. So this isn't inconsistent or scummy for me, just how he plays. Just like how Cavalinho still confuses the fk out of me.
Or you might have and the mistaken use of punctuation in the post confused you.
Overall, I'm quite happy with the way this thread activity has been. no ded gaem
Also, my sleep schedule is fked up, so I may be responding at odd times such as this.
Looking at the reads, what one will immediately notice is that his read on me and val are really, really different from the rest. The rest he gives some reasons, whilst mine and val's are simple one liners. This is to me an indication that this is at least planned, because I really don't think mafia will craft a reads list and not put in effort to classify two people for no reason at all, especially since I did have some posts (enough to comment on imo). He has also explained and given his rationale for all 5 of eden's points, and I do feel that they do make sense.
Point (1) is okay in my opinion.
Point (2) I agree that the entire thing is a retarded trap, and I don't agree with it. Problem is - why would he do such a thing when he knows (or at least ought to) that it would bring alot of attention? (Lying will catch attention and openly admitting to doing so is thus bad for scum to do since it brings the spotlight onto them) On the other hand, bad townie might be a plausible explanation for the derp.
Point (3) I really don't agree with Eden on this one, I think that LT's explanation is clear enough. My statement can be inferred as a null read, which I feel is valid enough.
Point (4) Could be townie being derp. Again I don't see why mafia will want to bring uneccessary attention to himself.
Point (5) He took a really long time to answer this one, and his excuse was that he derped and saw the question wrongly. How he does that I really question, but I feel this adds to the possibility to him being a townie. Why? This is because mafia when under pressure will undoubtedly be much more frantic, and is more likely to re read and ensure that their counter agurements make sense, and that it answers any doubts that town will have. (Unless of course they can give no logical explanation - but LT gave one in the end. (sort of))
The main crux of my agurement towards him being town is this - The original structure of the trap seems to me that it was planned, and I think he has done a decent job explaining his motivations for doing so. Basically, I feel that the scumbait, however bad and poorly planned it was, is legit. Sure, there are some holes, but oftentimes I feel townies will make logical errors as well. This is why I rather not go for a LT lynch today, because this play doesn't make any sense as scum. Sure, it could all be an act as bad townie to appear innocent, but I don't think that he will make such a play considering how high risk it is.
Robik: I really want to hear your thoughts. I'm not sure if I can stay till lynch time since thats really late (6am) for me (its already quite late now and im quite tired). Do you think my opinions on LT make sense?
Robik, vote. Yes, we have time left. I don't care. You should have enough to put your vote down.
Tolkien, some thoughts on your points: 1) What happened to sqrt as a wagon? I thought he was your main suspect? 2) I'm not clearing sqrt... I don't know why my scum reads keep saying this. Actually I guess that answers the question! But in any case I've said repeatedly that I only think he's town because my scum reads are all pushing him and he looks like an easy lynch for scum to push. I see wolves circling a lamb and of course I'm skeptical. But on sqrt's own merits he hasn't done anything to clear himself. 3) Haha bullshit, "toeing the line of what's acceptable" my ass. Every plausible scenario I have involves you being scum. Why would I entertain what I consider highly implausible scenarios right now? It's a waste of energy. If you flip town then great, I'll figure it out day 2. But you can stop this pansy-ass "toeing the line of what's acceptable" shit. Man up and say what you're going to say, don't be a little beta bitch and hide behind insinuations and implications.
So, I don't remember discussing pixalated at all, so I decided I'm gonna read his filter.
This makes me think that pixalated will be bringing up how he perceives people would play based off of the previous newbie game. Will keep reading his filter and see if he brings any of this up:
On March 25 2014 15:58 Pixalated wrote: Sup guys, first game here.
I did read through a couple of games though (including the previous newbie which some of you played in!) so I should (hopefully) know what I'm doing haha
Pixalated makes a reasonable point here, but he doesn't really take a stance on OK. He's very wishy washy with his "conclusion":
On March 26 2014 13:02 Pixalated wrote: I don't see any problem with onceking talking about policy. The thread before he came in was all empty and fluff with people talking about hearthstone and whatnot. He pushed the conversation to something that has some relevance to the game. Sure, talking about policy is a good way for scum to 'contribute' without actually doing much, but it's still better than talking about hearthstone.
I guess I can see how Pixalated would perceive Valenius's post this way, but as I explained, it had to do with the way that he approached OK's lynch all lurkers sentiments. Maybe I was just tunnely regarding OK earlier which was what made me think that this post was towny. But Valenius makes a long post later which I found town, so I'm cool with him anyway:
On March 26 2014 13:08 Pixalated wrote: I also don't see why you think Val is town just because he asked onceking to clarify his shit. It was a pretty useless question, it's easy to understand what onceking wanted to achieve with that post - create the atmosphere that no one can lurk and has to post.
But instead all he does is make a rather long post asking about potential situations blabla... When I think that it's pretty clear - if we have a solid read we lynch it, if not we lynch a lurker. Seems like he's trying to be helpful without actually being helpful.
I like that he takes a stance on me here. It's perfectly fine for him to not like me, especially if he thinks that OK is leading town in the right direction...having said that, it's kinda weird too, because he said earlier that it's easy to look like you're contributing without actually contributing if you're talkinga bout policy...so maybe he doesn't exactly agree with OK? idk:
On March 26 2014 13:47 Pixalated wrote: I don't like how he cleared both sqrt and val. Already explained why I don't feel that Val's questions make him town, and sqrt posting random stuff doesn't mean much.
What this means about his alignment I'm not sure. Could be mafia trying to get cred by claiming that people are townie and having 'right' reads when they flip.
Pixalated definitely taking stances on people. If LT is mafia, pixalated is almost certainly town for this post:
On March 26 2014 20:23 Pixalated wrote: Hey Tolkien, how is Val 'super town in my eyes, he's cleared for me.' He has posted like one post that isn't fluff, and you clear him based off just that? Is that because everyone here is reading him as town for some reason? (I don't see why but okay)
I agree with Eden's post about him. Furthermore from what I remember from reading his previous game (the one he mentioned) he was ALOT more active as compared to this. I will go take a peek at his filter there in abit.
@Tolkien Why am I neutral/slightly scummy? Elaborate please.
Cavalinho doesn't look too good as well.
This is really weird for me. Pixalated casually mentions a scum read on Cavalinho a couple posts earlier, but his main focus is LT. He then makes another 2 posts that have somethign to do with LT and then boom, he votes for Cavalinho, sheeping Eden:
On March 26 2014 20:41 Pixalated wrote: By the way
OK town, so Cavalinho is either terrible at reading comprehension or trying to distort what I'm saying. Let's review.
Again it's not that he said OnceKing's start was weird, it's that he didn't do anything to figure out why it was weird or tell us how it was weird. He asked OK why OK made a post about policy lynching lurkers, OK said it was to get the town out of RVS. That's not weird. Cavalinho didn't bother to respond to him and then kept repeating himself about how weird it was. No explanation as to why or how that's weird, no attempt to develop OK's response, nothing.
His questions didn't have any apparent direction or purpose to them. He asked OK why OK made the post, OK gave a good answer aaaand... Cavalinho drops it like a hot potato. No follow up? Nothing? Why are we supposed to be convinced that OK is weird or scum or whatever when you're just asking questions to ask them and not developing any insights from them? He asserts that he was asking questions because he didn't understand what was going on, but you'll notice that he doesn't acknowledge OK's answer at all. Instead he starts playing reactively, answering OK's questions and then dropping the line of discussion. That's not what people do when they're trying to understand what's going on. He vaguely talks around the issue right before I prodded him, saying that he thinks OK's start was still weird, but that he "[doesn't] have any real reason to think [OK] is mafia" because of his "last accusatory post" (what post is this?) and he "seems townie, getting information and generally being one of those obvious town players" (this doesn't actually say anything about why he doesn't think OK is mafia; we know that he wouldn't think that because he thinks OK seems town, why does he?)
I also happen to think his OMGUS vote is him trying to look innocent because he's aware of his meta (not the post beforehand he noted that Robik townread him in a previous game because he OMGUS'd then), but that can go either way. What's telling is that he fails to develop his vote, he just puts it down and insists it'll be me or him today. That's dumb and not what a town player should be doing.
Cavalinho is my best read for mafia right now.
and I think it sums up very nicely.
So, I think he's letting LT off the hook really quickly here. Nothing that LT said has really answered Pixalated's questions, and if it has, it's as if Pixalated just takes his word for it at face value. I retract my earlier statement that they can't be mafia together.
On March 26 2014 21:53 Pixalated wrote: Still prefer a Cav lynch.
I can see what LT means by me posting that on sqrt can constitute as a null read. In fact it matches since his next line is how my points were similar to those already in the thread, and my original point was indeed something that wasn't exactly fresh (Onceking said the same thing) whilst sqrt being a little suspicious (what I said later) wasn't mentioned by anyone else if I recall correctly.
The trap thing is still really bad though, and I agree its really suspicious on how fast he revealed it with only me and you pushing him for it so far. Still it sort of makes sense as town to cut his losses on a bad decision, since I believe it would probably have flowed into cav and sqrt simply ignoring his question, and they wouldn't sheep someone under fire. Still a really bad trap of course, but I can sort of see this as really bad town play. I like your point about the time gap between the 'bait' and 'trap' though, and I think thats my biggest gripe with the entire trap thing.
I think he agured the point that I brought up about the contradiction I pointed out pretty well, makes sense.
Cav on the other hand hasn't done much to redeem himself, and I would like to see more from him. (specifically a GOOD explanation on why he found OK's initial post weird)
I expect him to follow up on this. Will see if he does (same goes for bringing up the previous newbie game, which I haven't seen him do yet)
On March 27 2014 01:19 Pixalated wrote: I need to sleep so ill be going off.
I want to see val and sqrt post more. It has been 18 hours and they haven't done anything of note. Val promised to post something earlier, so I expect to see something when I wake up.
I guess it's a bit hypocritical of me to bring this up, but from everything Pixalated is writing it seems that LT is his biggest scum read (his personal biggest scum read, not the one he sheeped off of Eden), but he refuses to vote him:
- The slip in the followup post. I never said anything about whether this is the right or wrong day. Looks to me like lies are piling up on top of lies here.
Why are you dodging answering this? Context: this is point 5 of eden's agurement. Here's your answer to it:
5) You just made a case about my second post being 20 minutes following up my first post. sqrt had 3 and 1/2 hours since VALENIUS posted his question to OK, and 15 minutes to Robik's WTF to OK's post, and had time to make a joke post referencing Robik joking about never being mafia on TL. Perhaps it's just me, but I really dislike that.
Conclusions: Pixalated might be scum here. He kinda takes stances on people, but he keeps flipping back and forth. It seems throughout the day that LT is his biggest scum read, but he ends up just sheeping Eden regarding Cav. He keeps pressuring LT but never ends up voting him.
Another thing that he does, is make statements like "valeniusa nd sqrt need to post more" and "i read the previous game, but he does nothing with those. He doesn't pressure valenius or sqrt to post more, he doesn't call them out for it again, even though they posted a bit after I guess. But like, I'd expect something along the lines of "hey, so and so posted more, and I guess I like what he's said so I'm gonna lean town on him" or something like that, but he doesn't do it. He also doesn't make inferences from the previous game, which I'd assume he's make if he read it. This makes me think that at times he's just posting for the sake of posting.
On March 28 2014 00:53 Cavalinho wrote: Okay, I'm probably not going to be around at deadline. Can we possibly coalesce on someone soon that preferably isn't me?
Like...I don't see what makes me a "caught mafia." At all.
That was past tense... I'm more certain you're town than I am of Valenius and Tolkien.
On March 28 2014 00:58 Pixalated wrote: Cav opinions on my read on LT?
I'm really liking the parts about attracting attention; this kind of thinking doesn't really make sense from a mafia perspective. Why would you bother making a plan like that that can backfire so horrifically? Townies as a rule of thumb don't care about attracting attention, so it holds water.
It's just...Martyring yourself isn't good. I know he does it and I know he's a slow starter when it comes to day 1 play. If all we have to go on is him making clumsy attempts to catch scum and then trying to vote himself when it doesn't work, then the attracting attention theory doesn't really hold up because he's just going to play the "woe is me" card until we stop focusing him. That, on the other hand, can be considered mafia play. If he's just going to make us feel bad for pressuring him at all, then why would we bother keeping him around? At that point, he's either mafia or useless, and either of those options sound better than me getting lynched.
His reaction to that just seemed like pissed off town to me. Its really similar to you I think. Eden was tunneling both of you really hard, and his reaction is kind of similar to yours, just expressed differently. He tried to respond at first (and did so for very long), yet Eden refused to accept many of his points, and I think at this point he just got annoyed and posted that. I really don't think he was intending to vote himself. You on the other hand were also definitely annoyed (I inferred that from the tone of your posts, correct me if im wrong) at him tunneling you, but you just expressed it as Eden being possibly scum.
Obviously I understand that you would prefer him to yourself, but who else do you think is scum?
I think out of the four people that I'm concerned about right now, (You, Val, Roland, LT) Tolkein would be the one I would be concerned with voting off the most. I'm okay with either him or Roland, because Roland jumped on what could be considered a "safe" wagon and isn't letting up despite all evidence to the contrary.
Though for the record, you strike me as town for now. So I guess disregard the fact that I'm concerned with you.
(Also, yes, Eden is a pain in the ass when he tunnels. I can absolutely see that. Also, unvote me pls kthx.)
Hey Robik, tell me why you haven't voted yet and one significant point of discussion regarding your top two suspects (Cavalinho, Lord Tolkien) that you feel you contributed to the day.
His conversation with himself at the start of the game showed him to be a high volume, in the moment player. One who would create reactions and interact a lot. That style of town play is more writing than reading and doesn't take a lot of time.
But the promise hasn't been met. His posting since has been sporadic. He has one long post and otherwise doesn't know what to say.
Going to class soon and then I'm rereading the whole thread. I'm starting to get pissed off about this game because we have three wagons now (Tolkien, Cavalinho, sqrt) and two others (Valenius and Pixalated) that people are trying to start, way late in the phase. Seems like there's a lot of indecisiveness and general bullshit flying around here. It's really getting me mad how people are bitching about me "tunneling" when I'm obviously not, and then don't have a clear direction themselves for who needs to die instead.
On March 28 2014 01:37 Cavalinho wrote: I'm okay with either him or Roland, because Roland jumped on what could be considered a "safe" wagon and isn't letting up despite all evidence to the contrary.
If you think I'm mafia, and you want people to vote for me, nothing is more convincing than putting your own vote on me.
I didn't have any major reads at that point because I am quite uncertain of things. LT's trap crap initially had me going wtf, why would town do this, but after some thinking I came to that conclusion that I recently posted (wasnt as strong at that point in time since he hadn't finished explaining himself). I didn't post it before I went to sleep because I wanted to see him defend himself more, and other people's opinions on him.
Cav's lynch looked good to me because I don't understand why he felt that OK's initial post was weird, found his responses to pressure as off, and a minor point which I dont think I mentioned, he seemed to want to dodge direct pressure (asking you why you were targeting him specifically with that question). His recent responses actually give me the impression that he is pissed off town, and I thus dont really think he is scum anymore. Doesn't mean he is clear as this is simply something that I feel off his posts and I really can't pinpoint what exactly it is. The only thing I dont like is his initial read on sqrt who I dont really like atm.
I've read the trap section again and I understand it now. I also finished reading the previous game. There he had a post during night 3 that seemed like he was trying to trap the wolves with WIFOM and things he didn't believe. It worked, they killed him.
The point of that is it shows he wants to make plays like traps while town, so it's not automatically incriminating.
Then I'm buying his defense. Call it tone, I think he is town.
On March 28 2014 01:37 Eden1892 wrote: Hey Robik, tell me why you haven't voted yet and one significant point of discussion regarding your top two suspects (Cavalinho, Lord Tolkien) that you feel you contributed to the day.
I was planning on hammering the shit out of whoever I thought was more mafia at the end of the day if the wagons were close because I trust me to have the hammer than anyone else.
As for what I've brought to the table with Cava and LT...well...that doesn't really matter. I actually don't know if I've brought up any new content regarding them, I'd have to reread my posts. What I do know is that I have a pretty large town circle, and I'm happy lynching outside of it, and those two are DEFINITELY outside of it.
On March 28 2014 01:40 Eden1892 wrote: Actually I guess ignore all of that.
Going to class soon and then I'm rereading the whole thread. I'm starting to get pissed off about this game because we have three wagons now (Tolkien, Cavalinho, sqrt) and two others (Valenius and Pixalated) that people are trying to start, way late in the phase. Seems like there's a lot of indecisiveness and general bullshit flying around here. It's really getting me mad how people are bitching about me "tunneling" when I'm obviously not, and then don't have a clear direction themselves for who needs to die instead.
Except you do that, though. Your scumread on me was you self-propagating information in an attempt to get a lynch. I think you're town, but you tend to sink your teeth into a read and then you just never let it go when people respond.
The only reason that you townread me was because a bunch of people voted me, and it had nothing to do with what I said at any point. That's a little concerning.
Despite this, Eden has a point. We need to coalesce, and now would be good. I'm not going to be around for the deadline so I'd like to know that the lynch would at least be organized before I left.
On March 28 2014 01:37 Cavalinho wrote: I'm okay with either him or Roland, because Roland jumped on what could be considered a "safe" wagon and isn't letting up despite all evidence to the contrary.
If you think I'm mafia, and you want people to vote for me, nothing is more convincing than putting your own vote on me.
I have two scumreads, you being one of them. The important thing here is that we all agree on who we want to lynch sharpish, and I'd rather stick to the scumread that has votes on him.
On March 28 2014 01:37 Eden1892 wrote: Hey Robik, tell me why you haven't voted yet and one significant point of discussion regarding your top two suspects (Cavalinho, Lord Tolkien) that you feel you contributed to the day.
I was planning on hammering the shit out of whoever I thought was more mafia at the end of the day if the wagons were close because I trust me to have the hammer than anyone else.
As for what I've brought to the table with Cava and LT...well...that doesn't really matter. I actually don't know if I've brought up any new content regarding them, I'd have to reread my posts. What I do know is that I have a pretty large town circle, and I'm happy lynching outside of it, and those two are DEFINITELY outside of it.
On March 28 2014 01:46 Pixalated wrote: Sqrt why? Also thoughts on LT.
It seems like your defense of LT is logical, but I don't necessarily agree with it. Also, you're asking opinions of a lot of people, which is towny, generally.
Here's what I think is really strange. I haven't been posting much, I haven't been acting towny, and yet Robik and Eden have a town read on me. Eden says it's because his scumreads have been after me, but Robik's town read on me is because of early game joke posts. That's strange. I consider people who don't think I'm scum pretty scummy right now.
But, tbh, there's not a lot of time, and they've been contributing overall, so I don't think we should go for them this day. I'd rather go for one of the others.
On March 28 2014 01:56 Pixalated wrote: Sqrt, I haven't played with robik before but I think you have. Do you think he has been playing similarly to how he was when he was town?
On February 18 2014 08:01 Cavalinho wrote: Except I'm actively pressuring you you stupid asshole.
In case you haven't noticed, I'm actually trying very hard to focus on other things. But you ignore the shit that I've said before in regards to what OnceKing said. You can go ahead and look for it, because I'm not wasting my time explaining anything to you anymore. You are literally turning this into "you or me," and if we're both town, then everyone else is just sitting and watching while you try to reason something out of nothing.
I see absolutely no reason to let you live. You deliberately misread everything and your logic makes no sense. You're either shit town or mafia trying to save yourself.
But it's not like it actually matters what I'm saying here. I could say "smelly dick poop butt" and you would still think I'm mafia.
Two things: one, most of your posts have mostly been expressing frustration that Amiko's focusing on you. You've had "productive posts", but they're all focused on defending yourself and trying thus far to condemn Amiko.
Even when I point at both Lord Tolkein and IAmRobik
First, there was no pointing at me previously,
The only reference to me previously was:
His logic is unsound and it makes no sense whatsoever. What's actually kind of funny was that I was rethinking my stance after what you [, Lord Tolkien] posted earlier, but he keeps trying to push back on me which, in turn, makes me go after him.
After my first two posts on Amiko and a side-tracked conversation with Valernius about possible roles.
And the push onto IAmRobik at the time, with the posts we had at hand, is very questionable, which I've already raised.
This also raises the question why you aren't voting me after switching from Amiko.
Because we've had that solid conversation earlier about trying to plan around all of the blatant OMGUSing going on. This is a good sign.
I'm going to say it again: all of the people involved in the major discussions right now are probably town, and there are several players sitting back and doing nothing.
Now. It's all about survival. He actually gives his top scumread in the second post. Can you find it? Look how different that is. His focus, his priority is begging for an unvote.
On March 28 2014 00:53 Cavalinho wrote: Okay, I'm probably not going to be around at deadline. Can we possibly coalesce on someone soon that preferably isn't me?
Like...I don't see what makes me a "caught mafia." At all.
On March 28 2014 01:37 Cavalinho wrote: I think out of the four people that I'm concerned about right now, (You, Val, Roland, LT) Tolkein would be the one I would be concerned with voting off the most. I'm okay with either him or Roland, because Roland jumped on what could be considered a "safe" wagon and isn't letting up despite all evidence to the contrary.
Though for the record, you strike me as town for now. So I guess disregard the fact that I'm concerned with you.
(Also, yes, Eden is a pain in the ass when he tunnels. I can absolutely see that. Also, unvote me pls kthx.)
What evidence to the contrary?
Challenge: Would anybody like to say they think Cavalinho is town based on his posts in this game. Not based on your read of another player, wagon dynamics, or anything else. Just his posts.
On March 28 2014 01:37 Eden1892 wrote: Hey Robik, tell me why you haven't voted yet and one significant point of discussion regarding your top two suspects (Cavalinho, Lord Tolkien) that you feel you contributed to the day.
I was planning on hammering the shit out of whoever I thought was more mafia at the end of the day if the wagons were close because I trust me to have the hammer than anyone else.
As for what I've brought to the table with Cava and LT...well...that doesn't really matter. I actually don't know if I've brought up any new content regarding them, I'd have to reread my posts. What I do know is that I have a pretty large town circle, and I'm happy lynching outside of it, and those two are DEFINITELY outside of it.
And I'm outside of your town circle because...?
1) You were very reluctant to answer my questions early in the thread. I wanted you to take a stance and you were unwilling to do so.
2) While it's flattering to have someone just agree with me nonstop, I think that you could have been just sheeping the shit out of me. You know that people are going to follow me and thus if OK is town, it's easy for you to just hop on early cause i'm pretty much confirmed GOAT.
3) After I said the thing about there being a lot of votes on you, there was a really really quick and dramatic shift away from you and it was almost as unnerving to me as the original amount of people who DID vote on you.
On March 28 2014 01:52 sqrtofneg1 wrote: Here's what I think is really strange. I haven't been posting much, I haven't been acting towny, and yet Robik and Eden have a town read on me. Eden says it's because his scumreads have been after me, but Robik's town read on me is because of early game joke posts. That's strange. I consider people who don't think I'm scum pretty scummy right now.
I'm always willing to reevaluate, but when I give out my town reads, I don't give them out willy nilly and I will stand by them as long as I can.
On March 28 2014 01:52 sqrtofneg1 wrote: Here's what I think is really strange. I haven't been posting much, I haven't been acting towny, and yet Robik and Eden have a town read on me. Eden says it's because his scumreads have been after me, but Robik's town read on me is because of early game joke posts. That's strange. I consider people who don't think I'm scum pretty scummy right now.
I'm always willing to reevaluate, but when I give out my town reads, I don't give them out willy nilly and I will stand by them as long as I can.
In Foundations, I gave a town read on ggtemplar for saying "the killing has become the killed." Templar started looking super scummy and I forgot about that statement he made and I was coming around to the idea he could be scum and then all of a sudden, I remembered that I cleared him for the one small phrase that probably doesn't mean anything to anyone else, but to me, that was something that mafia just doesn't have it in them to say, so I offered to cut off my pinky toe if he was mafia....we didn't lynch him that day, even though the vote was close...game ended...he was town.
On March 28 2014 01:52 sqrtofneg1 wrote: Here's what I think is really strange. I haven't been posting much, I haven't been acting towny, and yet Robik and Eden have a town read on me. Eden says it's because his scumreads have been after me, but Robik's town read on me is because of early game joke posts. That's strange. I consider people who don't think I'm scum pretty scummy right now.
I'm always willing to reevaluate, but when I give out my town reads, I don't give them out willy nilly and I will stand by them as long as I can.
Reevaluate me now, plz.
This is stupid. I'm not going to go out of my way to call someone scummy if I think they are town.
On March 28 2014 01:52 sqrtofneg1 wrote: Here's what I think is really strange. I haven't been posting much, I haven't been acting towny, and yet Robik and Eden have a town read on me. Eden says it's because his scumreads have been after me, but Robik's town read on me is because of early game joke posts. That's strange. I consider people who don't think I'm scum pretty scummy right now.
I'm always willing to reevaluate, but when I give out my town reads, I don't give them out willy nilly and I will stand by them as long as I can.
Reevaluate me now, plz.
This is stupid. I'm not going to go out of my way to call someone scummy if I think they are town.
On March 27 2014 23:01 IAmRobik wrote: I think that the trio of Cavalinho, LT and OK contain both mafia, although OKs post are growing on me as the game has progressed (specifically his last post where he outlines why he thinks Valenius is mafia -- a sentiment I disagree with).
As long as we are lynching between Cav and LT, I'm happy throwing my vote down on either one of them by the end of the day. Let's just make sure that AT LEAST one of them is a wagon for today.
Okay, so obviously this is outdated since you have Pixalated as one scum. Let's assume you drop OnceKing from the list here (you seem to be softening on him). Now you've got one of Cavalinho or Lord Tolkien as the other scum.
But! Earlier you said:
On March 27 2014 00:53 IAmRobik wrote: The number of people suspicious of (myself included), and voting for, cavalinho is a bit unnerving. I do agree that he's been the scummiest, but I've yet to see someone defend him (other than maybe LT). IDK. I'm getting the heebie jeebies from this.
1) Do you think Cavalinho is town or scum? 2) If you think Cavalinho is scum, what do you make of the fact that no one was contesting his lynch? 3) If you think Cavalinho is town, then according to your first quote from above, you should think the scum team is Lord Tolkien and Pixalated. If so: (a) How do you rationalize the fact that Pixalated had the correct reaction to Lord Tolkien's trap and subsequent pressure on LT? (b) Why are you by yourself on an outlier when your other scum read is one vote behind your town read?
On March 28 2014 01:37 Eden1892 wrote: Hey Robik, tell me why you haven't voted yet and one significant point of discussion regarding your top two suspects (Cavalinho, Lord Tolkien) that you feel you contributed to the day.
I was planning on hammering the shit out of whoever I thought was more mafia at the end of the day if the wagons were close because I trust me to have the hammer than anyone else.
As for what I've brought to the table with Cava and LT...well...that doesn't really matter. I actually don't know if I've brought up any new content regarding them, I'd have to reread my posts. What I do know is that I have a pretty large town circle, and I'm happy lynching outside of it, and those two are DEFINITELY outside of it.
And I'm outside of your town circle because...?
1) You were very reluctant to answer my questions early in the thread. I wanted you to take a stance and you were unwilling to do so.
2) While it's flattering to have someone just agree with me nonstop, I think that you could have been just sheeping the shit out of me. You know that people are going to follow me and thus if OK is town, it's easy for you to just hop on early cause i'm pretty much confirmed GOAT.
3) After I said the thing about there being a lot of votes on you, there was a really really quick and dramatic shift away from you and it was almost as unnerving to me as the original amount of people who DID vote on you.
Hopefully this answers some of your questions. I'll try to answer the rest. You seem to be missing A LOT of things that are happening. Maybe you wanna hold off on this convo until you're back home from class? Cause repeating myself isn't really productive.
Okay, im really tired and need to sleep. Since I am not really feeling like LT and Cav are good lynches anymore, I am placing my vote on val, as I like onceking's case against him the most. Wanted to wait for val to get back to respond before deciding intially, but I had a long day and my brain is kinda fried.
I don't like sqrt as well, but I think I prefer val
##Unvote ##Vote: Valenius
I will try to wake up an hour before lynch, but I will probably sleep through my alarm so don't count on it. Will be here for awhile more can answer any quick questions.
On March 27 2014 23:01 IAmRobik wrote: I think that the trio of Cavalinho, LT and OK contain both mafia, although OKs post are growing on me as the game has progressed (specifically his last post where he outlines why he thinks Valenius is mafia -- a sentiment I disagree with).
As long as we are lynching between Cav and LT, I'm happy throwing my vote down on either one of them by the end of the day. Let's just make sure that AT LEAST one of them is a wagon for today.
Okay, so obviously this is outdated since you have Pixalated as one scum. Let's assume you drop OnceKing from the list here (you seem to be softening on him). Now you've got one of Cavalinho or Lord Tolkien as the other scum.
On March 27 2014 00:53 IAmRobik wrote: The number of people suspicious of (myself included), and voting for, cavalinho is a bit unnerving. I do agree that he's been the scummiest, but I've yet to see someone defend him (other than maybe LT). IDK. I'm getting the heebie jeebies from this.
1) Do you think Cavalinho is town or scum? 2) If you think Cavalinho is scum, what do you make of the fact that no one was contesting his lynch? 3) If you think Cavalinho is town, then according to your first quote from above, you should think the scum team is Lord Tolkien and Pixalated. If so: (a) How do you rationalize the fact that Pixalated had the correct reaction to Lord Tolkien's trap and subsequent pressure on LT? (b) Why are you by yourself on an outlier when your other scum read is one vote behind your town read?
Sigh. I'm such a fucking pushover.
1) scum 2) after i said something about that, there was a HUGE push against him. I think I might have set a trigger for everyone to abandon ship. 3) assuming that cava is town: a) while pixalated's reaction was good -- I myself had the same reaction -- he still ended up following you onto Cava and he has since backtracked off of LT b) I assure you that I will make my vote count. I do think that pixalated is scummy based off of the case that I posted earlier. If people want to follow me on him, that would be fucking great cause he's my best scum read at the moment. If people disagree and it comes down to two others, I will make the proper adjustment in my vote. I don't see why I need to squash a mafia read on someone just because there are two other wagons with 4+ hours left in the day. My goal is to lynch mafia. I didn't remember anything pixalated did this game, so I went back and read his filter and drew the conclusion that he was mafia from it. Thus my vote.
On March 28 2014 02:40 Eden1892 wrote: No, that actually doesn't answer my questions at all.
Actually it did answer questions 1 and 2, but you clearly are focused on class and not this game, or you just don't give a fuck about reading what I wrote.
That was a better series of answers than I expected.
Followup: Why would Pixalated follow me onto his scum partner?
Also, side question, this one is less pressing but it's sticking out so I figure I'll ask anyway. Why are you so pushy with other people but so soft with me? You almost seem scared of me. Not really GOAT behavior imo.
On March 28 2014 02:40 Eden1892 wrote: No, that actually doesn't answer my questions at all.
Actually it did answer questions 1 and 2, but you clearly are focused on class and not this game, or you just don't give a fuck about reading what I wrote.
No, I just wanted hard answers, not soft ones. Yes, I could imply reasonably well what your positions on 1) and 2) were from that sequence. No, I'm not going to do your homework for you.
On March 28 2014 02:51 Eden1892 wrote: That was a better series of answers than I expected.
Followup: Why would Pixalated follow me onto his scum partner?
Also, side question, this one is less pressing but it's sticking out so I figure I'll ask anyway. Why are you so pushy with other people but so soft with me? You almost seem scared of me. Not really GOAT behavior imo.
I don't know. Maybe they're not partners together. Maybe it's LT and Pixalated. Maybe it's Cava and LT. I'm not sure what the right answer is to the scum pairing. I definitely can see disconnects with certain people not being mafia together, but I don't want to bring that up yet because it's still d1 and making those types of assessments this early is dangerous.
I don't think I'm really pushy with anyone. If you think I'm aggressive towards certain people it's because I want to put pressure on them. I don't think I need to put any pressure on you. I think you are town and I think you're playing well.
On March 28 2014 02:40 Eden1892 wrote: No, that actually doesn't answer my questions at all.
Actually it did answer questions 1 and 2, but you clearly are focused on class and not this game, or you just don't give a fuck about reading what I wrote.
No, I just wanted hard answers, not soft ones. Yes, I could imply reasonably well what your positions on 1) and 2) were from that sequence. No, I'm not going to do your homework for you.
IT WAS THE FUCKING PREVIOUS PAGE. I am not forcing you to go through hundreds of posts of research. I had legitimately JUST answered how I felt about cava and two of the questions you asked were getting me to reiterate myself. How am I supposed to feel?
"Dangerous" or not, you just stated in no uncertain terms that Cavalinho is scum, and that Pixalated is scum. That means they're the mafia team. I don't think they can both be mafia given how long Pixalated has been on Cavalinho and (while perhaps pushing Tolkien more) agitating for his lynch. I suppose you're more certain about Pixalated than Cavalinho, yes?
And okay, that's fine, I was genuinely curious about it is all. Your personality just seems more aggressive than this naturally. It seems similar to mine, but at the same time I think I would be more aggressive with myself than you are, so it's throwing me off a little. Probably nothing.
Additionally, do I have this right as far as your reads go to this point?
scum: Cavalinho, Pixalated maybe scum: Lord Tolkien town: all else
I know OnceKing might be off-base; you were fine with me moving him to your town pile in my questions but that might have been for sake of discussion. I think the rest is correct based off of reading your filter.
meh....i'll concede that cava is more likely to be scum, but something is throwing me off about the way pixalated is playing the game and he is portraying a lot of scum tells. The whole situation with pixalated and LT makes me really really uneasy.
On March 28 2014 03:06 Eden1892 wrote: Additionally, do I have this right as far as your reads go to this point?
scum: Cavalinho, Pixalated maybe scum: Lord Tolkien town: all else
I know OnceKing might be off-base; you were fine with me moving him to your town pile in my questions but that might have been for sake of discussion. I think the rest is correct based off of reading your filter.
Yeah...I'm on the fence leaning scummy with OK. There have been +s for him, moreso of late, but there were a lot of minuses as well.
I'll get onto Eden/Roland in a bit, but posting this for now.
Quick totem pole. top doesn't mean i think he's confirmed scum, just highest on my list as it stands.
Sqrt Cavalinho Pixelated
Lord Tolkien
OnceKing Robik
Idk where roland / eden fit into that yet.
By the time Valenius wrote this everybody had cleared eden. I think if he was scum making up reads he'd just join the party calling eden town. But if he's town and hasn't done the iso yet he can't. I'm not feeling a Valenius vote today.
On March 28 2014 03:07 IAmRobik wrote: meh....i'll concede that cava is more likely to be scum, but something is throwing me off about the way pixalated is playing the game and he is portraying a lot of scum tells. The whole situation with pixalated and LT makes me really really uneasy.
I think Cavalinho's flip would tell us a lot about Pixalated and would help us figure out what's going on between Pixalated and Tolkien. Assuming you maintain that Cavalinho is more likely to be scum than Pixalated, then I believe the optimal move from your perspective is to get Cavalinho lynched. Do you follow me and if you do nonetheless disagree, what am I overlooking?
I'll get onto Eden/Roland in a bit, but posting this for now.
Quick totem pole. top doesn't mean i think he's confirmed scum, just highest on my list as it stands.
Sqrt Cavalinho Pixelated
Lord Tolkien
OnceKing Robik
Idk where roland / eden fit into that yet.
By the time Valenius wrote this everybody had cleared eden. I think if he was scum making up reads he'd just join the party calling eden town. But if he's town and hasn't done the iso yet he can't. I'm not feeling a Valenius vote today.
Actually I disagree. The list is basically a fancy way to avoid saying what he thinks of Eden and you. Not to mention that he said he'd get back to Eden and he didn't.
I'll get onto Eden/Roland in a bit, but posting this for now.
Quick totem pole. top doesn't mean i think he's confirmed scum, just highest on my list as it stands.
Sqrt Cavalinho Pixelated
Lord Tolkien
OnceKing Robik
Idk where roland / eden fit into that yet.
By the time Valenius wrote this everybody had cleared eden. I think if he was scum making up reads he'd just join the party calling eden town. But if he's town and hasn't done the iso yet he can't. I'm not feeling a Valenius vote today.
Actually I disagree. The list is basically a fancy way to avoid saying what he thinks of Eden and you. Not to mention that he said he'd get back to Eden and he didn't.
I'm about ready to move back onto Cavalinho. I still don't like Tolkien at all here, but Jarvis made a really good point here about Cavalinho -- all of his posts throughout the day have been focused just on surviving the day. He doesn't actually look concerned about finding mafia. Even well after I moved off of him, he just seemed insistent on harping on my alleged "tunnel vision" with him (which doesn't even make sense given that I wasn't voting for him). And enough people (read: just about everyone) have assured me that Tolkien is just being a bad townie instead of actually mafia, with particular emphasis on him being bad at Day 1. I suppose given this I should give him the opportunity to demonstrate why I shouldn't kill him on Day 2.
I'm about ready to move back onto Cavalinho. I still don't like Tolkien at all here, but Jarvis made a really good point here about Cavalinho -- all of his posts throughout the day have been focused just on surviving the day. He doesn't actually look concerned about finding mafia. Even well after I moved off of him, he just seemed insistent on harping on my alleged "tunnel vision" with him (which doesn't even make sense given that I wasn't voting for him). And enough people (read: just about everyone) have assured me that Tolkien is just being a bad townie instead of actually mafia, with particular emphasis on him being bad at Day 1. I suppose given this I should give him the opportunity to demonstrate why I shouldn't kill him on Day 2.
##UNVOTE Lord Tolkien ##VOTE Cavalinho
If you're leaning towards LT being bad townie (even through taking others reads into account), does that then move your read on me anywhere?
From the quick scan through, most of your scum feeling on me seems to come from interaction with LT (mostly me 'defending' his wtf-attempted-scum-bait-thing). Obviously correct me if i'm wrong, that isn't based on a line-by-line analysis of your posts.
OnceKing: I'm going to address you in a bit, you've made a couple of posts that i really just don't understand. Food first.
I hope it's nicer weather in our town, because it's pissing it down here.
Everything else the same, yes, it would make you look better. OK's case against you is still pretty good though. I'm comfortable tabling you until tomorrow if nothing else.
I'd really rather focus on either killing Cavalinho or deciding who else to kill instead.
I still dont like sqrt. More than Cav and am keeping the vote here. The only other thing i can do is consolidate on Cavwho is also is scummy but less so. And already set for lynch. This Val wagon and pixalated wagon needs to be at unhitched now. Do it tom o rrow or at night. If you think im more scummy than Cav Ok, fking vote for me. Not going to stop you.
This is turning into a repeat of LII mafia.
Reread your tunneling posts Eden. youtube video, memes now pansy ass beta bitch. Thos is mafia but fking chill and tone it down. Im fne with heat but the insults are getting annoying
On March 26 2014 19:13 Lord Tolkien wrote: I still need to read the LIII mafia game thoroughly. However.
OnceKing sounds town as all fk. I was originally suspicious of his initial "serious" post due to OK's early Day 1 behavior versus early Day 1 LII newbie mafia game and was going to comment on it, but I re-read the old thread and reversed my initial opinion on it (originally thought it was inconsistent, but I reread his case on Amiko and it didn't mention the lurker lynch policy). He's been pushing town towards active discussion since then, asking for reads, and generally steering conversation towards positive goals, so he's establishing himself as town thus far.
IAmRobik also feels town to me, though I still question why he feels OK's post is out of place given the context (unless it was scumbait, that was my first thought). The post is still useful pressure and discussion for town, though, and there is no reason for scum to be so forward, so early on in the day, especially with the possible game-states (no godfather game-state). And his posts subsequent read fairly town.
Valenius is super town in my eyes, he's cleared for me.
Pixelated is neutral or slightly scummy to me.
Eden feels even more town for me. He's actively pushing the Cavalinho case and scumhunting aggressively in Day 1, while being the most active contributor to the thread thus far. Clearest town poster in my mind, as he's giving reasoned arguments here.
Cavalinho sounds...well, aggressive in all his posts. And he's OMGUSing without presenting a case, period. But given his past game behavior, he also does this when he's town so I'm not sure if my scrumread on him is wrong. Like, this is almost a repeat of LII Day 1 in terms of the Cavalinho lynch progression, however without any substance from him. I'm leaving him as possible scum atm tho I'm confused by it. Maybe the most scummiest read I have, even his past town play aside. Like
I'll answer your question when you answer mine.
and
No, I simply felt like you were dodging the question.
should mark him as clear scum, but...might just be his playstyle.
I also happen to think his OMGUS vote is him trying to look innocent because he's aware of his meta (not the post beforehand he noted that Robik townread him in a previous game because he OMGUS'd then), but that can go either way. What's telling is that he fails to develop his vote, he just puts it down and insists it'll be me or him today. That's dumb and not what a town player should be doing.
This is actually a strong analysis of what I was trying to say.
You know what, Cavalinho isn't angry and pissed off enough to have the righteous indignation like his LII newbie game, nor still tries to contribute. Or hell, contribute an actual case for his OMGUSing.
sqrtofneg1 has thus far been fairly disconcerting to me. I indulged him with the Hearthstone convo, and I think that's irrelevant to the thread thus far. It was a fair shot at getting something going, if inflating his filter/post. After the first actual serious post to pop up Day 1 (the OK policy lynch), he posted this
Fun fact: I've been mafia once, only once, in my fair amount of irl games.
and didn't respond to the looming topic at hand, then had a sleep post. Like, its non-contributive lurking at best. There was definitely things available to comment on at the time of his sleep post. Hell, by the time of that post, IAmRobik had already made his wtf post about OnceKing's lynch policy post. It piggybacks off IAmRobik's joke posts, but he at least follows up with substance after there's clearly something to respond to. He still has time to become an active contributor, but seems to be a scum lurker to me. Probably my primary lynch target today because I'm still fking confused by the signals given off by Cavalinho's playstyle and posting patterns.
On March 26 2014 13:31 IAmRobik wrote: RE: Sqrt
In what world does a mafia come into the game and start talking to himself for 10 posts? Mafia has all the reason in the world to sit back and not do shit and contribute when something is happening and then push some random town who is on the chopping blocks. I don't give a damn if it was 10 posts of filler about how he's doing today and how his HS run was going.
The exact same reason you were pushing on OK for: because it's good to make the appearance of contribution. idgaf about the HS posts too much, but the fact he continued the joke posting and made a sleep post before contributing anything useful makes me unhappy.
Quick point to RolandJarvis before the plunge, that was a continued joke post. I was jokingly referencing the LII newbie game where I was OMGUSing OK hard for focusing on me Day 1 (mostly for some inconsistencies in his case). Posted that and the correction right as OK was posting the policy lynch post (note the policy lynch post being nestled between that post and the edit), which is the first serious post of the game, which should have been a clue. I'm overall happy with your contribution, however, and I would recommend you read the LII newbie game, since quite a few of the players here were in that game (and should give you a general idea of our playstyles as town (I think all of us present played as town that game), so you can get a feel for us. You voiced the concern about OK only voicing his read on IAmRobik, but his playstyle is (at least, going off his LII and stated gameplay) to only give his strongest reads. So this isn't inconsistent or scummy for me, just how he plays. Just like how Cavalinho still confuses the fk out of me.
Or you might have and the mistaken use of punctuation in the post confused you.
Overall, I'm quite happy with the way this thread activity has been. no ded gaem
Also, my sleep schedule is fked up, so I may be responding at odd times such as this.
Even though he hasn't done anything. Why would he do that? But wait, there's more. His next post is this:
- Reads on Valenius and Pixalated. ...how? Valenius asked some good questions to develop OnceKing's policy, but that's all. Certainly a good start but not nearly enough to declare him "super town" or "cleared." Especially in light of the fact that he said Pixalated is neutral-to-scummy... I have Pixalated as neutral-to-town if anything, but to be honest they've done virtually the same thing here (not post much, make solid contributions where they did). There's a lack of explanation for either read, which on its own doesn't say much, but...
ZzZ. I knew I should've tried posting that part some other time. Or maybe I should've approached it with more subtlety (see: any subtlety at all).
Was trying to scumbait with it when questioning Cavalinho and sqrt. Was trying to see if they would piggyback off of it. Went back and deleted those sections specifically to try.
My true reads: Valenius leans town at best. I'm hesitant to call him anything at this stage of the game, when his only post is at best asking for a PAINFULLY obvious clarification on a policy. Or in other words, in line with what everyone else has said.
Pixelated is leaning town. He's had more posts and has given reads on sqrt and Valenius, but the main crux of their points have been similar to what OK and others in the thread have said (not much to be said this early into the game, however). He was however the first to defend OK's post (outside of OK), and rightly so. If we're continuing with the Cavalinho lynch, it is...unlikely for them to simultaneously bandwagon on a possible lynch and defend the person in question.
- His position on Cavalinho is inconsistently soft wrt the rest of his list. Notice the "almost" above -- the one big exception is the guy that I personally think is obviously scum. He does some lip service to the idea (e.g. "these things should mark him clear scum"), but then handwaves every point he raises for Cavalinho on a shaky meta argument (e.g. "mark him as clear scum, but... might just be his playstyle). He says Cavalinho is "maybe the most scummiest read he has"*, but then declares sqrt his "probable" lynch target today. There's a lot of waffling on Cavalinho that isn't present with the others. (PREVIEW EDIT: Even concedes the case is strong, but still has sqrt as his top suspect. p l s)
This is again going off of my experience with Cavalinho in LII, though the more you prod, the more I think you may be right about me softballing Cavalinho. I may be trying to discern too much off meta, and am letting how LII Day 1 went color my view of the game and his (pretty scummy) actions too much.
- His rationale for sqrt is weak. Of a handful of inactives so far he's singling out one post of sqrt's (the "I've never drawn mafia" post) as the thing that's so disconcerting to him? Already zeroed in on sqrt being a scum lurker and wants to lynch him over aforesaid "maybe most scummiest read"*? That's just strange to me because nothing that sqrt has done has been alignment-indicative yet.
As I EXPLICITLY note, it was posted AFTER the serious posting began, and AFTER IAmRobik's wtf on OK. The timestamp is key: if it were before that, and even OK's post, whatever. idgaf because that was part of the joke phase. That's what I find the most disconcerting of his posting, versus Valenius (whose post at least addressed something serious).
- Preview edit point: That last question is such a softball! Ideal to ask your fake scum read and your scum buddy, terrible as town. Why wouldn't he ask about the things Cavalinho and sqrt are doing that makes them suspicious to him?
My main issue with sqrt again is the timing of his post and decision to start lurking at that juncture, which makes me far more leery of him over Valenius. Look at the time stamps: 3.5 hours between OK's post and Valenius's question and his sleep post, 4 minutes between Robik's wtf post and his highlighted post, and 11 minutes between the post I highlighted and his sleep post. Certainly there's time to post...something serious? When we had clearly moved past the jokes votes?
Putting him among my top scum reads is/was a means to pressure him into posting something of value and see if he posts anything that makes me pursue that line of inquiry. Similarly, the main thing which Cavalinho isn't doing is giving anything of substance in his posts. This is also why I was posting a full reads list, to see if there was any piggybacking going on.
He demotes Val to leaning town. Maybe he now realizes that he was too obvious in pushing Val for town. If he's mafia, Val's also mafia.
He also makes a scumtrap that's horribly planned out. Top mafia in my eyes.
Robik's playing aggressive, as he normally does. He's been pressuring pretty much everybody, as a town should do. The one thing that I don't like is that he got a town read on my on joke posts before the game. that's strange. I read town.
Pixalated is probably town. He's trying to logically put together the picture, and he's a bit quiet. He's suspicious of the right guys, he's cleared the right guys. I say town, with blue role. The blue role is because he's quiet.
Cav seems mafia, with the same reasons as Robik and Eden.
RJ is town, good reads, good logic.
So it's either Cav + someone who I misread, or LT and Val.
In that post he makes.. possibly one thought-out read? 'xxx is town' provides fuck all for anyone else to go on.
He even calls pixalated out as probably being a blue role. Anyone, please chime in on this: How is that a good move?
His LT read was based off of him not understanding anything of what went on.
He's voted Cavalinho because he said he was going to post after work.
He asked why only he should remove his vote on Cav, when asked to remove it. "Also, could you unvote me already? We've already determined that your vote was derp and I think you need to reread the thread to find a real scumread."
"Also, I disagree with Robik's case against Pix." Give some reasons, how does that help anyone?
He brushes off RJ when RJ asks for reasons why sqrt is town, and then in his very next post asks robik to do exactly the same for him.
Maybe i just don't understand wtf sqrt is doing, he's the most unhelpful player in the thread. Anyway, back on to you OK, got a bit sidetracked there.
"He cites his reason for suspicion as a lack of contribution but in fact Sqrt's post is very concise and clear, providing a huge amount of information about his motivations." in relation to sqrt's read post. I just can't wrap my head around how his post was informative. Maybe i'm being dumb, i just can't see it.
ebwop: I just kinda scrolled down sqrt's filter for posting those, hopefully enough to follow. and "How in gods name can you think: " should be "How in gods name can you think this post is good:"
I'm not scumreading you because you attacked sqrt. It's the fact that your case against sqrt was a parroting of mine that I have an issue with. Also, I may have been unclear. The post of sqrt's that I think is very clear and concise is this one:
On March 27 2014 03:20 sqrtofneg1 wrote: Comes in, makes reads, avoids question. ##Unvote ##Vote: Cavalinho
For some reason you had an issue with this post and used it to imply sqrt to be scummy when I think this post is very townie.
In general though, when I'm doing my posts i just look at that person's filter in isolation. I don't really take other people's cases into account unless they're a major talking point in that persons filter (see Eden vs Cav).
On March 28 2014 04:32 Lord Tolkien wrote: Reread your tunneling posts Eden. youtube video, memes now pansy ass beta bitch. Thos is mafia but fking chill and tone it down. Im fne with heat but the insults are getting annoying
Mocking terrible posts that attempt and fail, spectacularly, at responding to my points isn't tunneling. And I called you that to get you to say outright whatever the hell you're trying to imply with that comment about me "toeing the line of acceptable play." Like I said before, man up and say what it is you're meaning. I got no patience for cowards, alignment aside, and sniping with insinuations instead of straight shooting is cowardly.
Cavalinho because he hasn't been scumhunting all game and because he never really addressed the case I built against him back earlier in the day. Case is obvious and has been elaborated on at length, no worries here.
Robik because he came in and knocked the Cavalinho lynch off-course, and I later got him to admit Cavalinho was scummier than his target Pixalated (which was a weak target to settle on anyway), but now he's voting for Tolkien who he has as less scummy than Cavalinho. Their interaction at the beginning that I harassed Cavalinho over makes more sense now that I have Robik as the other scum; they were both fishing for an easy case against OnceKing and Cavalinho just followed Robik's lead. I've also been getting a really weird feeling about how Robik comes in acting like this badass at mafia, but whenever he talks to me he's just a monstrous pussy afraid to challenge me. Only makes sense if he's mafia and knows he can't afford to fuck with me.
If Cavalinho flips scum then kill Robik tomorrow for sure. If he doesn't then I'll reassess but I'm really confident now in both of them being the scumteam.
On March 28 2014 05:17 Eden1892 wrote: Scum team is Cavalinho and Robik.
Cavalinho because he hasn't been scumhunting all game and because he never really addressed the case I built against him back earlier in the day. Case is obvious and has been elaborated on at length, no worries here.
Robik because he came in and knocked the Cavalinho lynch off-course, and I later got him to admit Cavalinho was scummier than his target Pixalated (which was a weak target to settle on anyway), but now he's voting for Tolkien who he has as less scummy than Cavalinho. Their interaction at the beginning that I harassed Cavalinho over makes more sense now that I have Robik as the other scum; they were both fishing for an easy case against OnceKing and Cavalinho just followed Robik's lead. I've also been getting a really weird feeling about how Robik comes in acting like this badass at mafia, but whenever he talks to me he's just a monstrous pussy afraid to challenge me. Only makes sense if he's mafia and knows he can't afford to fuck with me.
If Cavalinho flips scum then kill Robik tomorrow for sure. If he doesn't then I'll reassess but I'm really confident now in both of them being the scumteam.
I ain't gonna sit here and do exactly what you tell me to do. I have my own thoughts and I think that LT is a perfectly good counterwagon to Cavalinho...waymoreso than Val or sqrt. I also came to the realization (as you pointed out) that calavinho and pixalated are not mafia together, but both can be mafia with LT. So go suck a dick, or be a good little sheep and follow me onto LT
lmao at your feeble attempt to make up for kissing up to me earlier by trying to talk tough now.
You called Cavalinho your top scum read then you're voting for Tolkien instead. K.
For the rest of the town, a concise argument for why I want Robik out, and why, if I am alive tomorrow, I'm going after him hard: My confusion about the game state coincided with him barreling in and derailing the Cavalinho lynch and it only just left when I cross-examined him and finally got him to do something to solidify my suspicions. I felt like when I was reading through the ISOs of the players he wanted us to look at, I wasn't finding anything. I felt like when he got us off Cavalinho, the town lost its cohesion and direction. I felt like he realized early on that he couldn't put the blitz on me like he tends to do with weaker personalities, and that instead of trying anyway (town) he tried to subvert me by townreading me and being weirdly concessive and deferential (mafia). I never felt like my concerns with Cavalinho were truly satisfied and Robik's been waffling on Cavalinho ever since.
I want to note though that a lot of this is contingent on Cavalinho flipping mafia; my case is weaker (but still solid I think) if Cavalinho is town. So if Cavalinho flips town and I get shot, don't just sheep me 'cause I got shot, step back and think about what I'm talking about here in light of the fact that Cavalinho is town and decide for yourselves if it makes sense.
You're an idiot. I've gotten warned in 3 games to not be as bm. That's why I'm being tame. Don't fucking piss me off cause I really don't want to get banned from the site.
I can make up the same bullshit about you leading the charge against LT and then seeing that it was getting derailed so you quickly fucking hopped onto another easy fucking wagon. Like fuck that shit. I think all 3 are scummy. I've said it plenty of times. I think that LT can be mafia with both Cav and pix. Can and pix can't be maf together. Best % chance to lynch maf is to lynch LT.
On March 28 2014 05:17 Eden1892 wrote: Scum team is Cavalinho and Robik.
Cavalinho because he hasn't been scumhunting all game and because he never really addressed the case I built against him back earlier in the day. Case is obvious and has been elaborated on at length, no worries here.
Robik because he came in and knocked the Cavalinho lynch off-course, and I later got him to admit Cavalinho was scummier than his target Pixalated (which was a weak target to settle on anyway), but now he's voting for Tolkien who he has as less scummy than Cavalinho. Their interaction at the beginning that I harassed Cavalinho over makes more sense now that I have Robik as the other scum; they were both fishing for an easy case against OnceKing and Cavalinho just followed Robik's lead. I've also been getting a really weird feeling about how Robik comes in acting like this badass at mafia, but whenever he talks to me he's just a monstrous pussy afraid to challenge me. Only makes sense if he's mafia and knows he can't afford to fuck with me.
If Cavalinho flips scum then kill Robik tomorrow for sure. If he doesn't then I'll reassess but I'm really confident now in both of them being the scumteam.
I have been asking you, almost since the beginning of the game, to clarify what parts of your case I was missing. You seem to completely ignore what I've been saying this entire time, and I've been concerned because I have been the focus this entire day. It's like you only see the parts of what people are saying that you want to see because you just want to consider yourself correct rather than be correct. Stop playing with your ego. It's time to stop, because I'm not getting lynched today.
zzz I don't care about whether you bm or not, it's not about that. (Although I wish you would, and could without getting warned, because I think it'd be fucking hilarious.) You've been not-a-douche to everyone, that's not the point. Your attitude toward me during the game has definitely been a lot more deferential than it has to the other players. There's a difference between "not bm" and "being deferential." You're scared of challenging me because I put the press on you early and it shows. Town!Robik wouldn't be afraid to challenge me.
Why do you give a shit about me getting on an easy wagon if you're sure that wagon is scum? You know there's no way in hell that Cavalinho and I are the scumteam.
On March 28 2014 05:43 Eden1892 wrote: zzz I don't care about whether you bm or not, it's not about that. (Although I wish you would, and could without getting warned, because I think it'd be fucking hilarious.) You've been not-a-douche to everyone, that's not the point. Your attitude toward me during the game has definitely been a lot more deferential than it has to the other players. There's a difference between "not bm" and "being deferential." You're scared of challenging me because I put the press on you early and it shows. Town!Robik wouldn't be afraid to challenge me.
Why do you give a shit about me getting on an easy wagon if you're sure that wagon is scum? You know there's no way in hell that Cavalinho and I are the scumteam.
On March 28 2014 05:43 Cavalinho wrote: I have been asking you, almost since the beginning of the game, to clarify what parts of your case I was missing. You seem to completely ignore what I've been saying this entire time, and I've been concerned because I have been the focus this entire day. It's like you only see the parts of what people are saying that you want to see because you just want to consider yourself correct rather than be correct. Stop playing with your ego. It's time to stop, because I'm not getting lynched today.
Now switch to LT.
Hahahah, ordering me around, that's cute.
Nah, vote stays on you. You haven't done anything to scumhunt or help town. Yeah the focus has been on you. So? You take it off of you by scumhunting. You haven't been doing that.
On March 28 2014 05:43 Eden1892 wrote: zzz I don't care about whether you bm or not, it's not about that. (Although I wish you would, and could without getting warned, because I think it'd be fucking hilarious.) You've been not-a-douche to everyone, that's not the point. Your attitude toward me during the game has definitely been a lot more deferential than it has to the other players. There's a difference between "not bm" and "being deferential." You're scared of challenging me because I put the press on you early and it shows. Town!Robik wouldn't be afraid to challenge me.
Why do you give a shit about me getting on an easy wagon if you're sure that wagon is scum? You know there's no way in hell that Cavalinho and I are the scumteam.
Except he just challenged you.
Stop ignoring people.
OK, now you're just being intentionally obtuse.
Well, correction, you have been the whole time, but now it's plain as day.
On March 28 2014 05:43 Eden1892 wrote: zzz I don't care about whether you bm or not, it's not about that. (Although I wish you would, and could without getting warned, because I think it'd be fucking hilarious.) You've been not-a-douche to everyone, that's not the point. Your attitude toward me during the game has definitely been a lot more deferential than it has to the other players. There's a difference between "not bm" and "being deferential." You're scared of challenging me because I put the press on you early and it shows. Town!Robik wouldn't be afraid to challenge me.
Why do you give a shit about me getting on an easy wagon if you're sure that wagon is scum? You know there's no way in hell that Cavalinho and I are the scumteam.
THE WHOLE POINT IS THAT YOUR CASE ON ME IS FUCKING TERRIBLE AND YOU NEED TO STOP. I DIDN'T DERAIL SHIT. I MADE A CASE AGAINST PIXAL...EVERYONE IS FUCKING OVERLOOKING IT. THAT'S STUPID. I THINK CAVA IS MAF. I DON'T LIKE THE OTHER TWO TOP WAGONS, SO I VOTED ANOTHER TOP WAGON WHICH WAS LT. I ALSO THINK THAT IT MAKES SENSE FOR HIM TO BE MAFIA WITH EITHER ONE OF CAVA AND PIXAL WHICH MAKES LT A FUCKING AMAZING LYNCH FOR TODAY.
I already explained why I haven't gone on you like I went onto other people. I didn't do that with Roland either cause I think Roland is town. He's also fairly vocal. I also didn't do that to sqrt, who isn't as vocal but also listed me as scummy. You're just noticing this because it's something that is about you. You're not basing this off of how I react to everyone who has done the same thing.
This is fucking pointless though cause I fucking think you're town. So can you fucking stop. I'm town. Having these shitty, far out theories about my play is not fucking beneficial.
On March 28 2014 05:43 Cavalinho wrote: I have been asking you, almost since the beginning of the game, to clarify what parts of your case I was missing. You seem to completely ignore what I've been saying this entire time, and I've been concerned because I have been the focus this entire day. It's like you only see the parts of what people are saying that you want to see because you just want to consider yourself correct rather than be correct. Stop playing with your ego. It's time to stop, because I'm not getting lynched today.
Now switch to LT.
Hahahah, ordering me around, that's cute.
Nah, vote stays on you. You haven't done anything to scumhunt or help town. Yeah the focus has been on you. So? You take it off of you by scumhunting. You haven't been doing that.
zzz you're not even dying until tomorrow y so flail
re: challenging, it has nothing to do with alignment and everything to do with personality. Roland is a more detached, analytical player. sqrt is kinda involved but not really. I press people hard, I hammer weaknesses that I see, my style is built on knocking people off their script and seeing who they really are. You're a loud, headstrong, involved, engaging type, like I am. That's hard to replicate as scum, especially when there are people like you in the game, because it's difficult to push them when your own heart isn't really in it. It's all personalities and if I were in your shoes, I'd do the same thing.
Ain't nothin' far out about this. You've got, oh, 3 more days after the lynch to convince me you're town, you've got plenty of time so stop sweating it out so much. I'm afraid you protest a little much, hon.
On March 28 2014 05:43 Cavalinho wrote: I have been asking you, almost since the beginning of the game, to clarify what parts of your case I was missing. You seem to completely ignore what I've been saying this entire time, and I've been concerned because I have been the focus this entire day. It's like you only see the parts of what people are saying that you want to see because you just want to consider yourself correct rather than be correct. Stop playing with your ego. It's time to stop, because I'm not getting lynched today.
Now switch to LT.
Hahahah, ordering me around, that's cute.
Nah, vote stays on you. You haven't done anything to scumhunt or help town. Yeah the focus has been on you. So? You take it off of you by scumhunting. You haven't been doing that.
Sqrt, you're fucking retarded as well. We've already established that your vote is bad and that's why I wanted it off of me. You seem to ignore that everyone else has tried to give reasoning for their votes (despite them being wrong) and you think it's weird that I want you to do things?
On March 28 2014 05:43 Cavalinho wrote: I have been asking you, almost since the beginning of the game, to clarify what parts of your case I was missing. You seem to completely ignore what I've been saying this entire time, and I've been concerned because I have been the focus this entire day. It's like you only see the parts of what people are saying that you want to see because you just want to consider yourself correct rather than be correct. Stop playing with your ego. It's time to stop, because I'm not getting lynched today.
Now switch to LT.
Hahahah, ordering me around, that's cute.
Nah, vote stays on you. You haven't done anything to scumhunt or help town. Yeah the focus has been on you. So? You take it off of you by scumhunting. You haven't been doing that.
I refuse to talk about this claim other than that we're not lynching him. It should be blatantly obvious why talking about the claim is really fucking bad.
On March 28 2014 06:06 IAmRobik wrote: I refuse to talk about this claim other than that we're not lynching him. It should be blatantly obvious why talking about the claim is really fucking bad.
Don't bother trying to logic with him. He's just going to ignore it.
On March 28 2014 06:06 IAmRobik wrote: I refuse to talk about this claim other than that we're not lynching him. It should be blatantly obvious why talking about the claim is really fucking bad.
...no? We're lynching Cavalinho. That's plain fact looking at the votes right now. The only wrong answer here is refusing to answer.
On March 28 2014 06:06 IAmRobik wrote: I refuse to talk about this claim other than that we're not lynching him. It should be blatantly obvious why talking about the claim is really fucking bad.
...no? We're lynching Cavalinho. That's plain fact looking at the votes right now. The only wrong answer here is refusing to answer.
Or you change onto LT and we don't lynch a cop claim and let it resolve itself.
Nah. The fact that you've gone from "Eden is town and playing very well this game" to "FUCK YOU SCRUB STOP THINKING FOR YOURSELF AND DO AS I SAY" as soon as I said I thought you were scum and I called out your hesitancy to challenge me speaks volumes about what's going on. You're flailing because you're desperate to save your teammate. This is textbook AtE. You're not getting me to move my vote.
Maybe. I'm weighing whether I believe the claim or not. I don't see how the cop claim can "resolve itself" as Robik claims -- we don't know there's a cop in the game and we can't afford to waste time just lynching whoever Cav points at as being different alignments or the same.
Yeah I'd like some of these wagons to consolidate on Cavalinho here. Tolkien in particular I would think has to switch his vote since he's one vote behind Cavalinho.
Okay no fuck this, there's just no way to resolve this claim in a good way. We can't afford to sit around and lynch whoever Cav points at while not even knowing if he's really the cop -- in fact we don't even know if there IS a cop in this setup. Keeping the claim around also results in ridiculous amounts of WIFOM about the night actions, and the case on Cav is fine. If Cav really is the cop then we learn about the setup, if he isn't then he was lying and we've killed scum.
This is so fucking bad. You don't fucking lynch a cop claim no matter how scummy the person was. Maybe he was playing scummy on purpose so he wouldn't get night killed. Who fucking knows. All I know is that voting for a claimed cop is bad and all of you that are voting him are fucking trash.
I know I'm gonna look like absolute fucking shit if he flips mafia, but I don't really give a fuck. This is beyond fucking terrible.
I guess there's no fucking point to withhold why you don't lynch a cop claim. 1) if mafia don't kill him and he's real, then he gets checks. 2) if he's mafia and he doesn't die at some point we'll figure out that he's mafia 3) if he's cop and mafia kill him then we don't fucking waste a lynch. That's what I fucking meant by it will resolve itself. Also, there an offchance for a counter claim and we would have even more information.
Anyway. this is bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad. I almost want to policy lynch Eden for this shit and like seriously. Eden. Go back to whatever shithole mafia site you came from cause you don't deserve to ever play another game with me again.
While searching for LoneMeow, the group finds the mansion completely empty. Everybody is on edge and spooked out. Where could he have gone? Who could have taken him? What the hell is going on? While exploring the mansion, a hillbilly waking up from a nap is found in one of the upstairs bedroom. Everybody freaks out at the obvious culprit, and the mob of college students decide to tie him up, leaving him on the upstairs balcony railing while he cries out for help and of his innocence. There was still no sign of LoneMeow, but before anybody realized what was going on in the not-fully renovated mansion, the balcony gives way and Tucker falls to his death.
Cavalinho playing as Tucker has been lynched!
Welcome to Night 1. This Night ends 24 hours from this post at Friday, Mar 28 10:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00).
You can speak at night. If you have night actions, get them in to me before the deadline. Night ends in
Oh well. When you don't scumhunt or act even remotely productive for the entire day and you claim cop when you're about to be lynched, you don't get the right to expect that people believe you.
Robik, you're completely wrong about why we should/shouldn't lynch the cop claim. It's not possible for a parity cop claim to work itself out in a game with nine people. For one, the mafia don't really have the same incentive to shoot them immediately like they do for a regular cop. It takes two good scans in a row and a timely death to get a confirmed mafia result, and two scans to get anything to use in the first place. In a nine-person game we're at LYLO by the time we have anything to use, with no way to confirm the cop is legit. For two, there's a 50% chance in any given iteration of this game that there even is a cop, so waiting for a counterclaim that's equally likely to be impossible as not isn't going to work. The mafia are strongly incentivized not to confirm the cop for us, and there's no reason to believe or disbelieve a cop claim in that situation. I therefore went with my scum read and pursued the lynch. That was the rational play and I make no apologies for it.
As for reads I'm sticking with Robik as mafia, the behavioral tells at the end here look really bad. The complete 180 from "you're good town Eden" to "fuck you you don't deserve the privilege of playing with me ever again you useless shit" because I decided I didn't believe him cannot possibly be town. I draw no new information from his protection of the parity cop for the same reason we had to lynch Cavalinho to confirm his claim -- the parity cop claim can't work itself out in a game with nine people, so the mafia has no reason to fear it, and has strong incentive to come out in defense of the claimant. I could equally argue, on this particular point, that Robik is town and made the correct read on Cavalinho, or that Robik is mafia trying to get town credit for making the ostensibly "correct" play in protecting a PR claim.
So in absence of that I'm returning to my previous behavioral analysis. I think he's mafia.
This clears Tolkien and Pixalated to me because there's no reason why mafia!Robik would push mafia!Tolkien or mafia!Pixalated over town!Cavalinho that hard, imo. I'm also pretty confident about OnceKing and Jarvis being town. The final mafia there would be sqrt or Valenius, and my bet would be Valenius simply because I don't think mafia!Robik would just town clear sqrt for nothing *and* that sqrt would call it out and demand he revise his read.
On March 28 2014 07:15 Eden1892 wrote: As for reads I'm sticking with Robik as mafia, the behavioral tells at the end here look really bad. The complete 180 from "you're good town Eden" to "fuck you you don't deserve the privilege of playing with me ever again you useless shit" because I decided I didn't believe him cannot possibly be town. I draw no new information from his protection of the parity cop for the same reason we had to lynch Cavalinho to confirm his claim -- the parity cop claim can't work itself out in a game with nine people, so the mafia has no reason to fear it, and has strong incentive to come out in defense of the claimant. I could equally argue, on this particular point, that Robik is town and made the correct read on Cavalinho, or that Robik is mafia trying to get town credit for making the ostensibly "correct" play in protecting a PR claim.
So in absence of that I'm returning to my previous behavioral analysis. I think he's mafia.
This clears Tolkien and Pixalated to me because there's no reason why mafia!Robik would push mafia!Tolkien or mafia!Pixalated over town!Cavalinho that hard, imo. I'm also pretty confident about OnceKing and Jarvis being town. The final mafia there would be sqrt or Valenius, and my bet would be Valenius simply because I don't think mafia!Robik would just town clear sqrt for nothing *and* that sqrt would call it out and demand he revise his read.
Are you actually mafia? Like you're legitimately twisting things around to fit whatever agenda you're trying to push with regards to me.
On March 28 2014 07:15 Eden1892 wrote: As for reads I'm sticking with Robik as mafia, the behavioral tells at the end here look really bad. The complete 180 from "you're good town Eden" to "fuck you you don't deserve the privilege of playing with me ever again you useless shit" because I decided I didn't believe him cannot possibly be town. I draw no new information from his protection of the parity cop for the same reason we had to lynch Cavalinho to confirm his claim -- the parity cop claim can't work itself out in a game with nine people, so the mafia has no reason to fear it, and has strong incentive to come out in defense of the claimant. I could equally argue, on this particular point, that Robik is town and made the correct read on Cavalinho, or that Robik is mafia trying to get town credit for making the ostensibly "correct" play in protecting a PR claim.
So in absence of that I'm returning to my previous behavioral analysis. I think he's mafia.
This clears Tolkien and Pixalated to me because there's no reason why mafia!Robik would push mafia!Tolkien or mafia!Pixalated over town!Cavalinho that hard, imo. I'm also pretty confident about OnceKing and Jarvis being town. The final mafia there would be sqrt or Valenius, and my bet would be Valenius simply because I don't think mafia!Robik would just town clear sqrt for nothing *and* that sqrt would call it out and demand he revise his read.
Are you actually mafia? Like you're legitimately twisting things around to fit whatever agenda you're trying to push with regards to me.
Explain to me how going from
On March 28 2014 02:53 IAmRobik wrote: I think you are town and I think you're playing well.
to
On March 28 2014 06:59 IAmRobik wrote: Anyway. this is bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad. I almost want to policy lynch Eden for this shit and like seriously. Eden. Go back to whatever shithole mafia site you came from cause you don't deserve to ever play another game with me again.
because I started disagreeing with you is at all town behavior.
If that's not what you're referencing, then explain how I'm twisting anything around, because that's the only part that's remotely contentious about what I said. I said your actions re: the cop claimant are null and they aren't a factor in my read, so there's no twisting of that set of actions going on, and everything else is derivative from my scumread on you.
More telling is the fact that five people voted to kill cop claimant Cavalinho. Of those five, Robik has singled me out for it, and in the process did a complete 180. The correlation here, of course, is that I'm the only player of the five that's scumreading him.
It's obvious what's really motivating him here. He's mafia, and caught, and doing everything he can to discredit me.
Roland Jarvis and OnceKing are in my "would save" pile, with Jarvis probably getting the nod since he's being townread by more people (and thus a more likely nightkill choice).
My turn! sqrt, if you were a compulsive vig, who dies tonight based on what you know right now?
@Onceking, wasn't around as lynch was 6am for me, and i had a long day yesterday and was really tired, and had school today as well. Slept through alarm. Wanted to wait for val to respond to your case actually, but decided to just go sleep.
On March 28 2014 07:15 Eden1892 wrote: As for reads I'm sticking with Robik as mafia, the behavioral tells at the end here look really bad. The complete 180 from "you're good town Eden" to "fuck you you don't deserve the privilege of playing with me ever again you useless shit" because I decided I didn't believe him cannot possibly be town. I draw no new information from his protection of the parity cop for the same reason we had to lynch Cavalinho to confirm his claim -- the parity cop claim can't work itself out in a game with nine people, so the mafia has no reason to fear it, and has strong incentive to come out in defense of the claimant. I could equally argue, on this particular point, that Robik is town and made the correct read on Cavalinho, or that Robik is mafia trying to get town credit for making the ostensibly "correct" play in protecting a PR claim.
So in absence of that I'm returning to my previous behavioral analysis. I think he's mafia.
This clears Tolkien and Pixalated to me because there's no reason why mafia!Robik would push mafia!Tolkien or mafia!Pixalated over town!Cavalinho that hard, imo. I'm also pretty confident about OnceKing and Jarvis being town. The final mafia there would be sqrt or Valenius, and my bet would be Valenius simply because I don't think mafia!Robik would just town clear sqrt for nothing *and* that sqrt would call it out and demand he revise his read.
Are you actually mafia? Like you're legitimately twisting things around to fit whatever agenda you're trying to push with regards to me.
On March 28 2014 06:59 IAmRobik wrote: Anyway. this is bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad. I almost want to policy lynch Eden for this shit and like seriously. Eden. Go back to whatever shithole mafia site you came from cause you don't deserve to ever play another game with me again.
because I started disagreeing with you is at all town behavior.
If that's not what you're referencing, then explain how I'm twisting anything around, because that's the only part that's remotely contentious about what I said. I said your actions re: the cop claimant are null and they aren't a factor in my read, so there's no twisting of that set of actions going on, and everything else is derivative from my scumread on you.
This is 100% inaccurate. The majority of your premise for me being mafia is that I was defending my partner. Clearly that's not the fucking case as Cavalinho wasn't mafia. It's also not the case because I DIDN'T FUCKING DEFEND CAVALINHO UNTIL HE FUCKING CLAIMED COP. I don't care what game your playing or what fucking world you live in, but you don't fucking lynch a cop claim in that spot.
You were town in my eyes when you weren't fucking blatantly lying and shoving false truths down people's throats, but now it's readily apparent that you are just trying to push your own agenda, which clearly involved killing someone who claimed cop. I expressed that I didn't know whether he was or not, but that wasn't up for fucking discussion and that we should look elsewhere on that offchance that he was. Hey look, you're a fucking trashcan and because you had clout you got the cop lynched with your fucking stupid questioning of people and your not so sublte jibs at his validity. I don't see why in fucks name you would play the game the way you're playing it at this point if you're town.
On March 28 2014 07:32 Eden1892 wrote: More telling is the fact that five people voted to kill cop claimant Cavalinho. Of those five, Robik has singled me out for it, and in the process did a complete 180. The correlation here, of course, is that I'm the only player of the five that's scumreading him.
It's obvious what's really motivating him here. He's mafia, and caught, and doing everything he can to discredit me.
LOL. I CAME AFTER YOU BECAUSE YOU'RE TALKING FUCKING NONSENSE AND BECAUSE YOU WERE THE ONE WHO PUSHED THE HARDEST TO GET CAVALINHO LYNCHED AND NOW YOU'RE TRYING TO PUSH YOUR OWN FUCKING AGENDA WITH REGARDS TO ME. YOU KEEP ALTERING YOUR REASONING FOR WHY I'M MAFIA AND YOU'RE DOING IT TO PUSH A MISLYNCH ON ME. FUCK THAT SHIT. THAT DOESN'T FUCKING FLY IN MY HOUSE!
@Onceking, wasn't around as lynch was 6am for me, and i had a long day yesterday and was really tired, and had school today as well. Slept through alarm. Wanted to wait for val to respond to your case actually, but decided to just go sleep.
Ah. I'm sorry, I didn't notice that you're from Singapore.
On March 28 2014 07:32 Eden1892 wrote: More telling is the fact that five people voted to kill cop claimant Cavalinho. Of those five, Robik has singled me out for it, and in the process did a complete 180. The correlation here, of course, is that I'm the only player of the five that's scumreading him.
It's obvious what's really motivating him here. He's mafia, and caught, and doing everything he can to discredit me.
LOL. I CAME AFTER YOU BECAUSE YOU'RE TALKING FUCKING NONSENSE AND BECAUSE YOU WERE THE ONE WHO PUSHED THE HARDEST TO GET CAVALINHO LYNCHED AND NOW YOU'RE TRYING TO PUSH YOUR OWN FUCKING AGENDA WITH REGARDS TO ME. YOU KEEP ALTERING YOUR REASONING FOR WHY I'M MAFIA AND YOU'RE DOING IT TO PUSH A MISLYNCH ON ME. FUCK THAT SHIT. THAT DOESN'T FUCKING FLY IN MY HOUSE!
You need to stop typing in caps. Nobody is going to read what you post if it's just a stream of caps lock and obscenities. A couple questions for you two and sqrt: Robik - What agenda is Eden pushing on you? Cite examples. Eden - Cav flipped town. Assuming Robik is scum, who is his partner? sqrt - Why Val or LT?
First off, this is LII newbie mafia all over again. Clearly this will end with lurker scum getting lynched Day 2, someone policy lynched for being a lurker town Day 3, then LYLO on Day 4. Let's go.
On March 28 2014 07:23 OnceKing wrote: LT swapped late so I'm leaning more town on him. Not a lot to be gleaned from outliers here as everyone seemed to push their cases a decent amount.
I'm tired atm, and have alot of filters I need to review before the night is over (probably won't be able to post substantively until close to the deadline), but how does that make me appear more town, because I'm scratching my head.
Finally, everyone needs to step back and take a deep breath. Ya we lost a blue role but whatever. It didn't alter the outcome of LII, and it (hopefully) won't alter it here, finally because we seem to be overvaluing it; it's a Parity Cop, at best it wasn't kick in until Day 3, and that's a maybe. I have to agree with Eden on this but there aren't many viable options here when faced with a Day 1parity cop claim. If it were a cop claim, I would probably agree with you Robik, but...I feel you're over valuing it. We still need to make to catch scum Day 2, or else we have to survive 2 LYLO scenarios back to back, and I with the way town has progressed thus far, I'm not confident we could do that.
And the advice given after LII is that blue roles should NOT be played any differently from a green role, which Cavalinho seemed to be doing and just trying to survive (compare that kind of play to OK playing medic in LII). I feel bad Cavalinho was lynched twice D1 (and I survived again, lol), but there were enough discrepancies in his play and a lack of genuine contributions to warrant it.
That's all for now. Probably won't be able to post much till near the deadline but we'll see.
A late switch makes you more likely town because doing so attracts a lot of attention, something mafia don't want focused on them. Yes this can be wifomed but it's a pretty solid heuristic.
sigh I found something in Robik's and sqrt's filters that's either making me less suspicious (Robik) or more (sqrt) but I can't relocate it now.
Robik needs to step back and reread with a cool head because his posts don't make a bit of sense -- I can't even respond to his last tirade of invective because he makes a bunch of assertions about me that aren't at all backed by anything that's actually happened.
- First real post has LT as top scum read and Valenius as scum partner (reads Valenius neutral on his own merits but thinks if LT is scum Valenius is scum), OR Cav and someone else he misread; also says Pixalated is a blue role (why would you point this out?) - Next post he explicitly says "I think LT is more suspicious and I want him to explain"... but he never follows up on this - Votes Cavalinho for giving reads and avoiding a question (Cavalinho wasn't asked a question) - Disagrees with Robik's case on Pixalated, is suspicious of Robik townclearing him - Asserts that Cavalinho not answering a question in a timely fashion is "really scummy" (?) - Tells Robik to stop townreading him (?????), Robik refuses - Asks "who are we lynching today? I say Cav" then does nothing to push the Cav lynch - Useless filler comment about the cop ("The question is, do we believe the cop claim or not? It's doubtful, but possible.") - Says he would shoot Valenius or LT - Another useless filler comment about mafia knowing format
I don't like this at all. He says that Tolkien is his top suspect from the moment he starts making serious contributions, and he clearly maintains Tolkien as his top scum read until now, since he just told me he would shoot Tolkien. But he never does anything in the interim to make a case for Tolkien and spends more time harassing Cavalinho about irrelevant nonsense than he does pursuing his scum read on Tolkien. And then once Cavalinho was squarely the lynch candidate for the day (i.e. with a few hours to go), sqrt asks who's being lynched, then does nothing to push the lynch he says he wants. None of his actions are lining up with his words. I also think his Valenius read isn't very good, he keeps saying he reads Valenius "neutral" (said so in his first real post and then says later that Valenius hasn't done anything to change that), then he has Valenius as Tolkien's scum partner and would shoot Valenius or Tolkien tonight if he were vigilante.
- Valenius was pushing on sqrt throughout yesterday and into tonight here. No reason at all for mafia to bus like that this early. Valenius is clear. - Tolkien and sqrt went back-and-forth a little too much for me to say they're a plausible scumteam. Tolkien is clear. - Roland is clear by... just read his ISO, if I have to explain this after that I dunno what to tell ya. He's been hovering a little around sqrt as scum as well so that helps. - I'm obviously town.
That leaves one of Pixalated, Robik, or OnceKing as the partner.
- Pixalated made a couple of offhand comments about "not liking" sqrt but never really placed a definite read down on him. Having reread Robik's case on Pixalated, I think Robik focused (in the structure of his post) on the wrong things about Pixalated that make him scummy, and I didn't do due diligence in reading Pixalated's posts and just kinda wrote him off because the case against him didn't stick with me. Robik's "Conclusions" section is salient here, especially with Pixalated's actions afterward: his votes (on Cavalinho and Valenius) don't match up with his talking (where he's mainly pressuring Tolkien) and are blatantly sheeped off of others' cases (me for Cavalinho, OnceKing for Valenius, and his suspicion of Tolkien was basically what I was saying as well). - Robik clearing sqrt based on opening posts and doubling down on that read later still doesn't make any sense, but I can't make any sense of 90% of what Robik's done this game, so I'm not going to worry about it for the moment. I still have some pretty strong misgivings about how he's playing this game, but I can't justify enough of those misgivings as being alignment-indicative to call him scum. - OnceKing generally seems town to me, but I have no clue how he came to the conclusions he did regarding Valenius or sqrt. I'm going the opposite way on both: Valenius has been doing his due diligence, reporting back on things he said he would, following up on questions he asks, putting pressure on his suspects and generally playing genuinely. sqrt hasn't contributed anything helpful all game and has a lot of filler nonsense early and late in the phase. I don't see how he townread sqrt for his unexplained vote on Cavalinho and I don't see how he scumread Valenius for not understanding it. It's not at all implausible that OnceKing is sqrt's partner and chainsawed Valenius to get the pressure off. OnceKing: why did you townread sqrt for his vote on Cavalinho, do you still scumread Valenius and why or why not?
Right now sqrt is my main mafia read, Pixalated makes the most sense as his partner. OnceKing and Robik are both slightly fishy to me, but their play so far has made me more willing to cut them some slack and show me they're town instead of outright accusing them.
On March 28 2014 06:59 Valenius wrote: night everyone
This post stood out to me. This is one minute before the flip. Why would val not wait a few minutes to find out the flip, but instead go to sleep? (I am sure that any townie would wait 5 minutes to check the flip, for obvious reasons) Like, would you go to sleep wondering if the lynch was correct when you can easily confirm it if you wait a very short period of time?????
My interpretation is this - he went to sleep because he already KNEW what cav was going to flip, and thus did not need to see it. This reeks to me of 'okay I did my job, mislynch secured, now I can sleep.' And yes, he did indeed leave due to the fact that he had no posts after the flip. I expect some reactions like 'damm' or something or maybe some thoughts on the flip if he was around.
I'm not gonna sit here and argue with people. Night posting is fucking dumb. The rule should be taken out of the game as it only benefits mafia and that's all I'm gonna say for the rest of this cycle...I've already said more than I wanted to last night because I was heated as fuck
On March 28 2014 23:08 IAmRobik wrote: I'm not gonna sit here and argue with people. Night posting is fucking dumb. The rule should be taken out of the game as it only benefits mafia and that's all I'm gonna say for the rest of this cycle...I've already said more than I wanted to last night because I was heated as fuck
You should at least state your suspicions in case you're nightkilled.
Think it through, if im here tomorrow ill explain it more thoroughly (from my perspective). Dont think of it as witholding information, just delaying it.
On March 28 2014 23:08 IAmRobik wrote: I'm not gonna sit here and argue with people. Night posting is fucking dumb. The rule should be taken out of the game as it only benefits mafia and that's all I'm gonna say for the rest of this cycle...I've already said more than I wanted to last night because I was heated as fuck
You should at least state your suspicions in case you're nightkilled.
Because the next day you're stuck with the same "WIFOM" that you were bitching about with regards to the cop.
You give mafia a chance to make a more informed decision. I don't like it. Not one bit.
That WIFOM exists regardless. If we didn't talk during the night phase, they would just nightkill based on the day phase arguments and suspicions, and it would be the same argument. The only thing that not talking during the night phase does is remove one-third of our discussion time from the game. There is no benefit to this and the harm should be readily apparent.
I can only post close to the deadline because of legitimate time constraints tonight,
But to Robik and Valenius:
There’s general discussion that people should avoid talking about their reads to avoid directing Mafia’s night kill. This is wrong. Night is the best time to analyze the lynch and the events of the previous day, because after the kill, everyone is going to be focused on the night kill and the previous day will be drowned out.
AKA LII Newbie Mafia writeup we all should have read.
There’s general discussion that people should avoid talking about their reads to avoid directing Mafia’s night kill. This is wrong. Night is the best time to analyze the lynch and the events of the previous day, because after the kill, everyone is going to be focused on the night kill and the previous day will be drowned out.
AKA LII Newbie Mafia writeup we all should have read.
The correct play is TO be talking about it.
Just because someone wrote that doesn't mean I have to agree with it. My first coach told me I'm terrible and that my reads suck.
As for Eden talking about night talk being the same as day talk...that's 100% incorrect. Night talk is different because your reads are now adjusted based off of the day flip. Prime example:
Eden makes the case at the end of the day: If cava flips mafia, then rob most likely mafia, otherwise rob prolly town. Then if I'm mafia, I can be like, hmmmm, maybe let's keep eden around since he thinks that I'm town based off of the flip, and then eden doesn't die with his thought that i'm actually mafia, as he expressed at the beginning of night phase and instead he comes out gunning for me unexpectedly.
And that, my friends, is why night talking is different from day talking.
Guys, you're not getting it (although Tolkien is close enough so this doesn't really apply to you). There is no argument for withholding anything just because it's nighttime. Reads, discussion, pressure, whatever, this is a full third of the game that y'all seem content to flush down the drain out of a paranoid worry that the mafia might do something to subvert our discussion with their choice of kill. Guess what? They're always going to try to subvert our discussion with their choice of kill! This isn't a valid argument against nighttime discussion.
Furthermore, the fact that this was apparently explicitly spelled out in the postgame analysis for LII makes me more suspicious of whoever was in that game and is advancing these arguments. There's less excuse for ignorance in that case, which necessarily increases the possibility of malevolence.
On March 29 2014 01:23 IAmRobik wrote:As for Eden talking about night talk being the same as day talk...that's 100% incorrect. Night talk is different because your reads are now adjusted based off of the day flip. Prime example:
Eden makes the case at the end of the day: If cava flips mafia, then rob most likely mafia, otherwise rob prolly town. Then if I'm mafia, I can be like, hmmmm, maybe let's keep eden around since he thinks that I'm town based off of the flip, and then eden doesn't die with his thought that i'm actually mafia, as he expressed at the beginning of night phase and instead he comes out gunning for me unexpectedly.
And that, my friends, is why night talking is different from day talking.
This is completely backwards; the optimal thing in that situation would be for you to shoot me, so I die after having said you're town. If I withheld my change of heart on you then my death would send the direct opposite message from what I wanted to send.
I was in that game, and cant remember jack shit from the postgame. I was just relieved we had won. It being posted and it being noticed are different things.
On March 29 2014 01:23 IAmRobik wrote:As for Eden talking about night talk being the same as day talk...that's 100% incorrect. Night talk is different because your reads are now adjusted based off of the day flip. Prime example:
Eden makes the case at the end of the day: If cava flips mafia, then rob most likely mafia, otherwise rob prolly town. Then if I'm mafia, I can be like, hmmmm, maybe let's keep eden around since he thinks that I'm town based off of the flip, and then eden doesn't die with his thought that i'm actually mafia, as he expressed at the beginning of night phase and instead he comes out gunning for me unexpectedly.
And that, my friends, is why night talking is different from day talking.
This is completely backwards; the optimal thing in that situation would be for you to shoot me, so I die after having said you're town. If I withheld my change of heart on you then my death would send the direct opposite message from what I wanted to send.
I don't know what fucking meta level you play on, but if there is someone that is supporting me and I'm mafia, I have full incentive to keep them alive, ESPECIALLY when there's no cop left.
You're right, "the optimal play" was overstating it, but I don't think you're considering the other side of the equation. If you knew that I was withholding my reads by not talking during the night, you can't trust that I'm going to stay on your side. Whether you shoot me or not depends on how willing you are to trust that I'll stay on your side. The nightkill choice is WIFOM regardless of whether we talk during the night or not.
Again, the only thing that not talking during the night ensures is that we waste a third of our discussion time and that we potentially leave outdated reads that lead the town astray.
Man, we could barely use the 48hrs we are allotted for d1. An extra 24hrs of night time is stupid. I'd rather night end after like 8-10 hours and give us another 48hrs with more information to work off of.
Tolkien, since you're on board with me re: night talking, do you care to comment on my most recent posts before this tangent? (the ones dealing with sqrt being mafia, and the implications therein)
On March 29 2014 01:41 IAmRobik wrote: Man, we could barely use the 48hrs we are allotted for d1. An extra 24hrs of night time is stupid. I'd rather night end after like 8-10 hours and give us another 48hrs with more information to work off of.
Well, that's not an option (though I definitely sympathize). Care to help me use the time we do have, even if you think it's stupid that we have it?
On March 29 2014 01:41 IAmRobik wrote: Man, we could barely use the 48hrs we are allotted for d1. An extra 24hrs of night time is stupid. I'd rather night end after like 8-10 hours and give us another 48hrs with more information to work off of.
Well, that's not an option (though I definitely sympathize). Care to help me use the time we do have, even if you think it's stupid that we have it?
I'll say this: I disagree with OK's assessment of LT late vote on Cava looking good because why would mafia want to draw attention to themselves. I disagree because if LT is mafia, and he's one of the other wagons, he has to make sure that he's not lynched based off of a late vote-switch based off of the claim. Thus it makes sense for him to make sure that the lead wagon is as far ahead as possible.
Okay, that's a good observation. I agree with you in this case; I typically like that heuristic but you're right, there's an overriding incentive for LT to have moved his vote if he's mafia.
How much could I get you to tell me about sqrt before the day ends? I still don't follow your townread on him.
On March 29 2014 01:48 Eden1892 wrote: Okay, that's a good observation. I agree with you in this case; I typically like that heuristic but you're right, there's an overriding incentive for LT to have moved his vote if he's mafia.
How much could I get you to tell me about sqrt before the day ends? I still don't follow your townread on him.
First off Robik you're completely wrong. Everyone should night talk. If only one person night talks and starts voicing suspects during that timeframe then the only guy who's willing to contribute to discussion the entire time gets shot and the thread dies. The way you talk it's almost as if you're saying that once you have one read you can't go back and change it due to new information which is just stupid. If it's true that as you write, you're "willing to reevaluate everyone" then what's wrong with evaluating people now and then reevaluating after someone dies (or doesn't)?
I don't understand why everyone is being such a complete pussy about talking in the night. "B-b-but I m-might get shot and d-d-d-d-die!" Yeah you might get shot and die anyway, doesn't mean you shouldn't contribute or stop being a good townie out of fear of being NKd.
On March 28 2014 21:06 Eden1892 wrote: OnceKing: why did you townread sqrt for his vote on Cavalinho, do you still scumread Valenius and why or why not?
First I'm going to answer the implied question: no, I don't have a town read on sqrt. I said that his vote on Cav is very townie. It was simple, short and to the point. He voted Cav when he did literally nothing but quote your big post and say "I'll answer in a bit, have some work to do and will get back to you." Isn't this very straightforward of sqrt? He wasn't even sheeping anyone, he has the first post after and immediately said what was on his mind. Yes I still find Valenius scummy for the same reasons I said before. I'm totally willing to believe that he only looks through the filter to make a case. That's also a terrible way to make a case because it takes all the posts out of context.
... ok nevermind, went through sqrt's filter and Valenius is absolutely right about sqrt LOL Pixalated even asked him to establish his innocence before he got lynched and all he said was "Hopefully"
On March 28 2014 01:52 sqrtofneg1 wrote: Here's what I think is really strange. I haven't been posting much, I haven't been acting towny, and yet Robik and Eden have a town read on me. Eden says it's because his scumreads have been after me, but Robik's town read on me is because of early game joke posts. That's strange. I consider people who don't think I'm scum pretty scummy right now.
sqrt - Here in this post you scum read Robik pretty clearly but I'm getting mixed signals as towards your feelings towards Eden. In one sentence you suggest he's scummy but just two sentences prior you justify Eden's town read on you. Tell me, what do you think of Eden?
Everyone should post reads here before you get nightkilled and leave us with nothing.
For me it's...
Town across all scenarios: Roland Jarvis, Eden1892, Lord Tolkien, Cavalinho (rip) Scum: sqrtofneg1
- Valenius is town if sqrtofneg1 is mafia, null-to-slight-scum read if sqrtofneg1 is town - OnceKing is probably town, but could still plausibly be sqrt's partner; likelihood appears to be diminishing though - Robik and Pixalated aren't on the same team; Pixalated makes the most sense as sqrt's partner, Robik is an outside possibility there; more likely to me that Pixalated is mafia rather than Robik
Guys, we have 20 minutes. Don't let the night end like this; you're only going to make it harder for the town to find your suspects when we reread the thread for your posts if you die.
It was a silent and somber night as everyone was distraught over the murder they just committed. However, their friend LoneMeow was still missing and they needed to find the cause of his disappearance and whether or not he was still alive. While continuing to search the mansion, they realized someone else was missing: he was shortly thereafter found brutally killed outside on a tree branch.
"They left him here to send a message!"
Eden1892 playing as a College Kid has been killed!
Welcome to Day 2. This day ends 48 hours from this post at Sunday, Mar 30 10:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00).
Sqrt: Why have you been playing like you have? You've been very unhelpful with.. anything.
Pixalated: You've sheeped onto OnceKing's case on me, and when OnceKing looked at his own case he realised it was shit. Did you truly believe in his case? Why?
OnceKing: I'm still confused as to how you thought your case was good in the first place. You've looked over me again and realised i wasn't saying wrong stuff about sqrt.. what was with your original case?
Roland: You haven't been here for a while. How's it going?
You've been a BIG defender of OnceKing so far. Are you trying to assess what he's saying from a scum perspective? It seems from reading your filter that you're very pleased with him.
Tolkien: Last game you came back from a horrendous day 1, and provided some really good reads, leading to you getting lynched going into lylo. Do you think you'll be able to help out as much in this day 2? What are your reads?
Sqrt: Why have you been playing like you have? You've been very unhelpful with.. anything.
Pixalated: You've sheeped onto OnceKing's case on me, and when OnceKing looked at his own case he realised it was shit. Did you truly believe in his case? Why?
OnceKing: I'm still confused as to how you thought your case was good in the first place. You've looked over me again and realised i wasn't saying wrong stuff about sqrt.. what was with your original case?
I'm backing off on my read on you. I have you town and I believe your statement that you just went through sqrt's filter in isolation. Was it silly of you to miss the context? Yes, but I definitely agree with the direction you had on sqrt.
The problem with you originally was not that you were saying wrong stuff, it was that you were saying the same stuff I said earlier but fluffily. It's very easy for scum to look like they're contributing by just rehashing old analysis which is what I thought of you. However here's how I consider it:
1. Given your unprecedented attack on sqrt, you're probably not both scum. 2. Both of you were scummy enough so that I believe one of you to be scum. 3. Sqrt is scummier, so I definitely think it's him.
Argh. I meant to post before night ends, but my nap lasted longer than I anticipated lol.
oh and robik survived n1 gg, clear mafia
Alright, looking at nightkills, Eden is the super obvious choice, doesn't change much for my analysis. In fact, it just cuts out the comments I was going to make about Eden.
Day 1 is characterized by what I feel are three MAJOR events.
1) The OK lurker policy, Robik's wtf, and the subsequent push onto Cavalinho for following Robik on it
2) My own fail post and the subsequent shitstorm.
3) The Cavalinho parity claim.
I think the first two situations have been beaten to death, though I'll answer any remaining questions people have about the second point. The brunt of my analysis will be on
Cavalinho put out the parity cop claim just to spite fking Eden, and I can understand it. More than understand it, I did the same thing because it was fking tiresome.
Let's look how people fell on that.
Pixalated wasn't online at the time because Singapore. Eden kept pushing, and was tunneling on Cavalinho and Robik being scum together (this is a clusterfuck I want to return to later when I have more time to analyze the slapfight more throoughly). Robik posted a spirited defense of Cavalinho, saying we shouldn't lynch the parity cop claim. Also yelling at Eden. I still don't understand how the parity cop claim can just sort itself out before Day 3, and even then it doesn't necessarily become useful. Valenius states that:
On March 28 2014 06:07 Valenius wrote: In light of this..
My vote isn't moving. I don't believe LT is mafia, so i'm not going to move my vote on to him.
Which is actually a pretty bold statement since no-one else had said anything decisive, and I think it leans town.
I do want an explanation as to why you didn't move it onto Cavalinho, however, as while I understand why you didn't move it onto me, but not Cav. You just over half-an hour stated that:
On March 28 2014 05:28 Valenius wrote: I really want to keep my vote on sqrt, but it doesn't look like it's going down that way.
Out of Cav/LT, i'd be voting for Cav.
Then, RolandJarvis is online and posts:
Posting to say I'm refreshing from work and I'm aware of current events.
He doesn't explicitly take a side here (instead keeps on voting Cavalinho). And what were your thoughts about the whole affair? You didn't post any thoughts about it despite being online at the time.
OK then posts that he disagrees with Robik's reasoning that "the parity cop claim will sort itself out". He doesn't take further action outside of this, as of yet. Likely thinking over his course of action.
RJ then posts this:
On March 28 2014 06:34 RolandJarvis wrote: I am nervous about who won't be around and the possibility of no accountability vote switches in the name of not lynching the claim.
I believe everyone in the game has by this time been accounted for outside of myself (I noted previously that my phone was dead), and Pixalated (who stated he was sleeping and wasn't around for the lynch). It seems to imply that you still wanted to see Cavalinho lynched, as you were worried about vote switches off of him?
Then we get
On March 28 2014 06:37 sqrtofneg1 wrote: The question is, do we believe the cop claim or not? It's doubtful, but possible.
Which is fking useless. No stand, no reason to post it outside to basically signal hes online and aware of what's happening, and just makes town more confused and uncertain. He doesn't change his vote on Cavalinho. Scummy or useless town contribution.
Valenius responds to it and says:
On March 28 2014 06:38 Valenius wrote: Shit, i wish someone had wondered this earlier.
Which raises the question as to why you don't post anything afterwards regarding the Cavalinho lynch (either changing your play, taking a firm stand on it before Day 1 ended, or commenting on later actions), as you were clearly online at the time.
I then make a post that states I have a short amount of time to check and reply to the mafia thread + Show Spoiler [RL reason] +
the kids I was tutoring got disciplinary action so I had half an hour to fuck around
.
OK then posts his vote switch from Valenius to Cavalinho, specifically citing RJ's concern that people would vote-switch off of Cavalinho because of the claim, and stating he doesn't think it can resolve itself.
At this point I finally finish skimming the thread, have no fking clue what to say about the claim, and thought to myself: I might as well consolidate because I basically think there's no fking way this will end well because it's a fking parity cop, and we could be LYLO if we try to accommodate it.
I DISAGREE THAT THIS IS A TOWN PLAY. Neutral play at best in my own review of the action, since it was posted after OK posted his justification (I posted I was online probably like 15s before he posted his justification and voteswitch).
I'll say this: I disagree with OK's assessment of LT late vote on Cava looking good because why would mafia want to draw attention to themselves. I disagree because if LT is mafia, and he's one of the other wagons, he has to make sure that he's not lynched based off of a late vote-switch based off of the claim. Thus it makes sense for him to make sure that the lead wagon is as far ahead as possible.
I agree with this, though at the time there were 4 votes on Cavalinho, so it would take 2 vote switches, as opposed to 1, to see myself lynched. I actually like the skepticism here. I don't see how it can be anything but a neutral at best move, especially as I did telegraph that I was most likely not going to be able to post again before the deadline.
tl;dr??? I feel really scummy about sqrt's post for obvious reasons. It doesn't discuss "what should we do", it just incites doubt about "is he REALLY a cop?" (like we're going to fking know until he flips). He doesn't change his vote or anything, so I'm really not sure what to make of it.
Valenius' posts confuse me here and I'm not sure how to interpret his play; his first post seems towny to me, but the second, combined with a lack of followup, confuses this read: especially as he said he didn't mind voting Cavalinho over myself.
RJ voiced a valid concern about possible vote-switching off of Cavalinho (but apparently did not foresee the vote-switching ON to Cavalinho), and seemed to be for the continued lynching of Cavalinho claim or no claim. I agree with it, but I can't read much else from him here.
OK does voteswitch onto Cavalinho first (followed by myself like 5 minutes later).
I am uneasy about Robik's play, and will be posting another analysis of it later today. This was already more work than I intended.
I have more general reads and proposals coming in the next wall-o-text
On March 29 2014 09:35 Lord Tolkien wrote: Argh. I meant to post before night ends, but my nap lasted longer than I anticipated lol.
oh and robik survived n1 gg, clear mafia
Alright, looking at nightkills, Eden is the super obvious choice, doesn't change much for my analysis. In fact, it just cuts out the comments I was going to make about Eden.
Day 1 is characterized by what I feel are three MAJOR events.
1) The OK lurker policy, Robik's wtf, and the subsequent push onto Cavalinho for following Robik on it
2) My own fail post and the subsequent shitstorm.
3) The Cavalinho parity claim.
I think the first two situations have been beaten to death, though I'll answer any remaining questions people have about the second point. The brunt of my analysis will be on
Cavalinho put out the parity cop claim just to spite fking Eden, and I can understand it. More than understand it, I did the same thing because it was fking tiresome.
Let's look how people fell on that.
Pixalated wasn't online at the time because Singapore. Eden kept pushing, and was tunneling on Cavalinho and Robik being scum together (this is a clusterfuck I want to return to later when I have more time to analyze the slapfight more throoughly). Robik posted a spirited defense of Cavalinho, saying we shouldn't lynch the parity cop claim. Also yelling at Eden. I still don't understand how the parity cop claim can just sort itself out before Day 3, and even then it doesn't necessarily become useful. Valenius states that:
On March 28 2014 06:07 Valenius wrote: In light of this..
My vote isn't moving. I don't believe LT is mafia, so i'm not going to move my vote on to him.
Which is actually a pretty bold statement since no-one else had said anything decisive, and I think it leans town.
I do want an explanation as to why you didn't move it onto Cavalinho, however, as while I understand why you didn't move it onto me, but not Cav. You just over half-an hour stated that:
Posting to say I'm refreshing from work and I'm aware of current events.
He doesn't explicitly take a side here (instead keeps on voting Cavalinho). And what were your thoughts about the whole affair? You didn't post any thoughts about it despite being online at the time.
OK then posts that he disagrees with Robik's reasoning that "the parity cop claim will sort itself out". He doesn't take further action outside of this, as of yet. Likely thinking over his course of action.
On March 28 2014 06:34 RolandJarvis wrote: I am nervous about who won't be around and the possibility of no accountability vote switches in the name of not lynching the claim.
I believe everyone in the game has by this time been accounted for outside of myself (I noted previously that my phone was dead), and Pixalated (who stated he was sleeping and wasn't around for the lynch). It seems to imply that you still wanted to see Cavalinho lynched, as you were worried about vote switches off of him?
On March 28 2014 06:37 sqrtofneg1 wrote: The question is, do we believe the cop claim or not? It's doubtful, but possible.
Which is fking useless. No stand, no reason to post it outside to basically signal hes online and aware of what's happening, and just makes town more confused and uncertain. He doesn't change his vote on Cavalinho. Scummy or useless town contribution.
On March 28 2014 06:38 Valenius wrote: Shit, i wish someone had wondered this earlier.
Which raises the question as to why you don't post anything afterwards regarding the Cavalinho lynch (either changing your play, taking a firm stand on it before Day 1 ended, or commenting on later actions), as you were clearly online at the time.
I then make a post that states I have a short amount of time to check and reply to the mafia thread + Show Spoiler [RL reason] +
the kids I was tutoring got disciplinary action so I had half an hour to fuck around
.
OK then posts his vote switch from Valenius to Cavalinho, specifically citing RJ's concern that people would vote-switch off of Cavalinho because of the claim, and stating he doesn't think it can resolve itself.
At this point I finally finish skimming the thread, have no fking clue what to say about the claim, and thought to myself: I might as well consolidate because I basically think there's no fking way this will end well because it's a fking parity cop, and we could be LYLO if we try to accommodate it.
I DISAGREE THAT THIS IS A TOWN PLAY. Neutral play at best in my own review of the action, since it was posted after OK posted his justification (I posted I was online probably like 15s before he posted his justification and voteswitch).
I'll say this: I disagree with OK's assessment of LT late vote on Cava looking good because why would mafia want to draw attention to themselves. I disagree because if LT is mafia, and he's one of the other wagons, he has to make sure that he's not lynched based off of a late vote-switch based off of the claim. Thus it makes sense for him to make sure that the lead wagon is as far ahead as possible.
I agree with this, though at the time there were 4 votes on Cavalinho, so it would take 2 vote switches, as opposed to 1, to see myself lynched. I actually like the skepticism here. I don't see how it can be anything but a neutral at best move, especially as I did telegraph that I was most likely not going to be able to post again before the deadline.
tl;dr??? I feel really scummy about sqrt's post for obvious reasons. It doesn't discuss "what should we do", it just incites doubt about "is he REALLY a cop?" (like we're going to fking know until he flips). He doesn't change his vote or anything, so I'm really not sure what to make of it.
Valenius' posts confuse me here and I'm not sure how to interpret his play; his first post seems towny to me, but the second, combined with a lack of followup, confuses this read: especially as he said he didn't mind voting Cavalinho over myself.
RJ voiced a valid concern about possible vote-switching off of Cavalinho (but apparently did not foresee the vote-switching ON to Cavalinho), and seemed to be for the continued lynching of Cavalinho claim or no claim. I agree with it, but I can't read much else from him here.
OK does voteswitch onto Cavalinho first (followed by myself like 5 minutes later).
I am uneasy about Robik's play, and will be posting another analysis of it later today. This was already more work than I intended.
I have more general reads and proposals coming in the next wall-o-text
With regards to the points raised on me. I wanted to vote off sqrt, and people seem to be coming around to why I wanted that. I didn't believe you were mafia, so out of the two of you (You/Cav) the only choice was him. Then he claimed, and i had no idea what to do. I don't have a better explanation. I just flat-out couldn't decide if he was faking or not, and what to do if he wasn't. The only move I could make if he wasn't faking is to switch on to you, but I'd already said that I wasn't voting for you, so that was out of the picture.
My "Shit, i wish someone had wondered this earlier." post: I was just frustrated with sqrt. The same page it's on has that question asked multiple times.
First, shit, I deleted the sections I was about to post lol. I'll try and retype the sections as best I can but I'm tired and want to play D3 or HS for at least a little bit.
General analysis after reading what has been posted while I was typing: First (this goes for Eden and OK): Clarification: Valenius was not the first one to push onto sqrt, nor the first person to vote on him. *ehm*
On the Valenius post: sqrt, how do you get a "neutral" read off of it? It's filled decent, non-rehashed analysis (though I think he could explain his reasoning on Pixalated: Valenius what is your read of him, and why do you think that). You don't like it because he calls you scum, yeah, but tell me: why shouldn't we view you as scummy given your current contributions? Your reads post had two pieces of original analysis:
1) is idle speculation of my relationship with Valenius, and to that I say: don't ask, don't tell . Ok, I kid, but it was based off something which can readily be falsified with a single glance at his filter at the time. Like, it's SUPER obvious, and really, why would I as scum try to link myself to my scum partner so early (and vice versa), and with something so easily disputed? Neither does this say that he's town if I'm scum (when I "downgraded" him and gave the actual read, Eden was on the Tolkien/Cavalinho 4eva pairing at the time, so I would have no incentive to change anything about Valenius), just that this is a useless line of inquiry.
2) idle speculation that Pixelated is blue (don't speculate about other people being blue. I talked about blues in my admittedly disastrous Day 1, but that's a nono and I was only making a soft vet claim, as opposed to calling someone out explicitly as blue (and even that's scummy). DON'T DO THAT AS TOWN.
aka what Eden apparently only just noticed Night 2. dem scum team reads yo
THAT BEING SAID. I'm not sure what it is, but I like his posting. OK's accusation got me to make a doubletake on my initial very towny feel from his first major contribution (it is possible it was also motivated by his defense of me, but Robik agreed with me here so it probably wasn't just that), but I'm tentatively feeling he's town. His stand in the Cavalinho parity cop claim makes sense, and he did it before anyone not directly involved in the clusterfk (mainly Eden, Robik, and Cav himself) did. His quoting of sqrt's absolutely fking useless post tho (and not following up) is getting at me and keeping me from pegging him as solid town.
I'm solidly pegging OK as town. I don't think there's much to say here.
@ sqrt: Can you please give us an actual reason why we shouldn't lynch you today? I'm fine that you lived through Day 1 but your Day 1 was pisspoor and scummy. Like, if you're town, please defend yourself and don't be another fking Beneather. If you're scum and are just being another N1K0 tho, pls continue.
And finally: @ Dead-den, I noted previously I had time constraints which prevent me from posting comprehensively until near the deadline, and I apparently fked that up. MB
At this point, my other possible scumreads outside of sqrt (who I don't want everyone to SOLELY focus on today no matter how hard Val and I pushed him Day 1) are: Pixalated RolandJarvis Robik (I really need to analyze why I'm uncomfortable with him with my gut as a gut reaction [don't think he's scum, but uncomfortable enough to be concerned], but no time atm, hopefully I can get through with that before we're quarterway through the day, but at the latest halfway through)
I'm fairly confident that OK is town, as is Valenius.
Which reminds me, Robik you posted that you thought that OK was scummy up until later in the day (and in fact that the two mafia were in with me, Cavalinho, and, OK), but also noted in that post that OK started appearing less scummy.
Why? Also, I'm waiting on your reads; I haven't seen any from you at all this game, which is entirely different from your Day 1 play in LII.
On March 29 2014 10:25 OnceKing wrote: dude LT what are you typing you just wavered between me being solid town and not being solid town like three times
On March 29 2014 10:25 OnceKing wrote: dude LT what are you typing you just wavered between me being solid town and not being solid town like three times
Err what. I'm fairly certain that wasn't in the posts lol, and if it was I apologize. I THINK You mean when I was talking about your accusation about Valenius (that section isn't clear), but I meant I did a doubletake of Valenius and think he's tentatively town because of his Cavalinho play. That wasn't referring to you.
I need to proofread next time, but whatever I wrote, I mean you are solid town.
THAT BEING SAID. I'm not sure what it is, but I like his posting. OK's accusation got me to make a doubletake on my initial very towny feel from his first major contribution (it is possible it was also motivated by his defense of me, but Robik agreed with me here so it probably wasn't just that), but I'm tentatively feeling he's town. His stand in the Cavalinho parity cop claim makes sense, and he did it before anyone not directly involved in the clusterfk (mainly Eden, Robik, and Cav himself) did. His quoting of sqrt's absolutely fking useless post tho (and not following up) is getting at me and keeping me from pegging him as solid town.
Is this section what you mean? Because it all refers to Valenius. The only part that refers to you is your Val wagon.
There's already a wagon forming on him and I don't want to just tunnel on him this entire Day phase. Tunneling bad, and I want to explore other options in addition to him. There are other people who need to be looked at. Probably not Robik, but I just feel uneasy about him and need to reanalyze him intensely to figure out why I do. But ATM I feel Jarvis/Pixal do need a good hard look, and they really need to post something. I believe I pushed the sqrt lynch hard enough Day 1 to make my stance on him clear, and I will absolutely vote on him if I'm not satisfied with 1) his defense (if he gives one...), and 2) my other possible scum reads possibly acquit themselves.
also yes, prepare to face the mighty millhouse pronounstorm.
OnceKing is currently my top town. He was the first one to vote me this day, and that creates a lot of attention. I doubt that mafia want that to happen to them.
Valenius is leaning town.
Lord Tolkien is town. It makes no sense for mafia to create a 'scumtrap' as he did, and even if mafia would make a 'scumtrap', it would definitely be planned out better. D2, he's been actively trying to scumhunt.
IAmRobik is leaning town. I disagree with people saying that Robik should have been the night kill, and that he's mafia because he wasn't killed. After D1 and N1, mafia weren't gonna try to kill him because of 2 reasons. 1. He was under suspicion from Eden. 2. He was raging, and it would be a waste of a kill to get someone who might not concentrate on the game.
I would like him to post more today.
Pixalated is mafia. This post is the main reason why I think he is.
On March 28 2014 02:42 Pixalated wrote: Okay, im really tired and need to sleep. Since I am not really feeling like LT and Cav are good lynches anymore, I am placing my vote on val, as I like onceking's case against him the most. Wanted to wait for val to get back to respond before deciding intially, but I had a long day and my brain is kinda fried.
I don't like sqrt as well, but I think I prefer val
##Unvote ##Vote: Valenius
I will try to wake up an hour before lynch, but I will probably sleep through my alarm so don't count on it. Will be here for awhile more can answer any quick questions.
Before this post, he's only really pressuring me and LT. This sudden turn on Val seems like mafia not trying to jump on any of the wagons.
RolandJarvis is mafia. This post is the main reason I think he is.
On March 28 2014 06:34 RolandJarvis wrote: I am nervous about who won't be around and the possibility of no accountability vote switches in the name of not lynching the claim.
This is after Cav claimed cop. RJ knows it's the truth, and tries to get people to switch over so that cop dies. Scum play.
On March 28 2014 06:34 RolandJarvis wrote: I am nervous about who won't be around and the possibility of no accountability vote switches in the name of not lynching the claim.
This is after Cav claimed cop. RJ knows it's the truth, and tries to get people to switch over so that cop dies. Scum play
I don't follow this. If he's scum, shouldn't he want to lynch the cop? Also, what do you make of the vote counts? I have yet to see anyone other than me post a vote analysis and I want to see what someone else can glean from them.
sqrt isn't scum. Or at the very least, I see no reason to lynch him Day 2 when he's been posting...unlike three other people I can mention *COUGHCOUGHCOUGH*.
#Vote RolandJarvis
Been reassessing Robik and I still don't know why I feel uncomfortable about him. :\
I came back hoping for lots of posts and a happy town. There isn't, i'm pissed off.
My plan:
Lynch one of Pixalated / Roland. I don't want them posting 1 minute before deadline to meet their criteria of posting in the cycle. If they don't post, and are going to get modkilled, we go into tomorrow with 'an extra player' compared to if we vote between ourselves.
Does anyone disagree? We all need to be voting on the same one, whichever one the consensus is between us. I'm treating you all as town for now, because i have no idea what else to do. (Sqrt, i still don't believe you on the roleblocked, so we'll talk about that if we get there tomorrow.)
Sqrt, OK, LT: Who are your preferred votes for today? I'm.. (was going to say happy, but that'd be a lie).. willing.. to vote for either Pixalated / RJ.
Also my theory for nks is real simple: kill those on the right track. eden was my biggest fan, a horrible kill for me to make. It was however a great kill for Robik and sqrt. You can call it WIFOM, and your wrong at least about me. I believe it's much easier to argue with a corpse than with a live player who can vote and cause trouble.
On March 31 2014 04:26 Lord Tolkien wrote: Any reason you're posting now?
Why on earth wouldn't I post? Abandoning the game would be very poor form.
I think you're town. What's more I think if you talk to me you'll figure out that I'm town. Then we can lynch somebody else. Just from that start we're 2/5 to hit which is much better than the current 0% chance to hit.
To answer more directly, I was very steamed by the lynch result. Also by Robik's posts right at the deadline. So I did other things until I calmed down. I felt pretty responsible for the result and likely to fight hard and say dumb stuff. I didn't think that would be good for anybody.
I checked in to see the night kill result, processed that.
I'm pretty disappointed with the activity level, it took no time to catch up.
On March 31 2014 04:33 RolandJarvis wrote: To answer more directly, I was very steamed by the lynch result. Also by Robik's posts right at the deadline. So I did other things until I calmed down. I felt pretty responsible for the result and likely to fight hard and say dumb stuff. I didn't think that would be good for anybody.
I checked in to see the night kill result, processed that.
I'm pretty disappointed with the activity level, it took no time to catch up.
On March 31 2014 04:31 Lord Tolkien wrote: You haven't posted shit in 70 hours. That's quite some time, then you come backbwhen we form a wagon in you.
Scuse me but this takes some explanation.
and it's still 3 hours til lynch which seems like plenty of time. The wagon is obviously quite independent of my return. I'm either playing or I'm not.
On March 31 2014 04:33 RolandJarvis wrote: To answer more directly, I was very steamed by the lynch result. Also by Robik's posts right at the deadline. So I did other things until I calmed down. I felt pretty responsible for the result and likely to fight hard and say dumb stuff. I didn't think that would be good for anybody.
I checked in to see the night kill result, processed that.
I'm pretty disappointed with the activity level, it took no time to catch up.
LOL
go fuck yourself.
excellent, you can be town too! now we're playing.
On March 31 2014 04:31 Lord Tolkien wrote: You haven't posted shit in 70 hours. That's quite some time, then you come backbwhen we form a wagon in you.
Scuse me but this takes some explanation.
and it's still 3 hours til lynch which seems like plenty of time. The wagon is obviously quite independent of my return. I'm either playing or I'm not.
Then you'd be wrong. You had 48 hours to post something telling us you're alive AFYER THE NIGHTKILL and 70 hours after the lynch. If you are town fk you.
He saw the claim. He didn't really try to discourage voting Cav, he just said he wouldn't and he refused to say if he believed it.
He said he was driving and would return at :45
Then he had that super long rant at the very last minute. When it could not change the outcome, but could make him look good.
I think if he was town that rant would have been the first thing and he would have pushed people off of cav because he thinks it's the right thing to do.
Look at his vote today... not voting. Again he's avoiding responsibility. He's lurking. If I wasn't going after him he'd show up in a bit and half push something else that won't go.
On March 31 2014 04:31 Lord Tolkien wrote: You haven't posted shit in 70 hours. That's quite some time, then you come backbwhen we form a wagon in you.
Scuse me but this takes some explanation.
and it's still 3 hours til lynch which seems like plenty of time. The wagon is obviously quite independent of my return. I'm either playing or I'm not.
Then you'd be wrong. You had 48 hours to post something telling us you're alive AFYER THE NIGHTKILL and 70 hours after the lynch. If you are town fk you.
3 hours means shit and you know it.
No, I actually don't know that.
How many players will I have more posts than for this game day when it's done?
I don't have a time machine. I was told players need to participate each day/night cycle. I'm putting in 3 hours here. If that's not enough then the signup should be more explicit about the requirements.
Feel free to talk about any other topic, like say the content of my posts or somebody else's. Or just keep yelling at me if that makes you feel better I guess. It won't make me scum though.
On March 29 2014 06:10 Eden1892 wrote: Everyone should post reads here before you get nightkilled and leave us with nothing.
For me it's...
Town across all scenarios: Roland Jarvis, Eden1892, Lord Tolkien, Cavalinho (rip) Scum: sqrtofneg1
- Valenius is town if sqrtofneg1 is mafia, null-to-slight-scum read if sqrtofneg1 is town - OnceKing is probably town, but could still plausibly be sqrt's partner; likelihood appears to be diminishing though - Robik and Pixalated aren't on the same team; Pixalated makes the most sense as sqrt's partner, Robik is an outside possibility there; more likely to me that Pixalated is mafia rather than Robik
This is the guy the mafia killed. There's a very good reason he's dead and you & I aren't... it's because he was a lot more right than you or I.
It's unfortunate that I don't have much to add to them but that goes with having no posts day 2. I do think Valenius is town the way he came at me.
Why did you take so long to come back? You can't blame us for having no posts on day 2 when you are part of the problem by not posting at all. Who is worse, Robik or Pixalated?
I'm willing to excuse this as a misunderstanding. That being said, POST REGULARLY AND FREQUENTLY. Posting a giant block 2 hours before the lynch does nothing, because you don't contribute anything to the scumhunting or set up ANY WAGONS in the 70 hours prior.
I'm still not happy with you at all, but you're posting something at least.
A message for any non-scum who might read this post:
Wanting me to be scum because you don't like the interval between my posts won't make me scum. Voting me might feel good now. It won't feel that great after the reveal.
Take a minute and read my iso. Ask yourself: what's RJ's agenda?
On March 31 2014 05:00 OnceKing wrote: Why did you take so long to come back? You can't blame us for having no posts on day 2 when you are part of the problem by not posting at all. Who is worse, Robik or Pixalated?
I don't know. I mean I could tell you a story for each but the fact is I trust my town reads and my scum reads from the rest are random chance.
I want Robik to be scum, that makes me nervous. So Pixalated is probably the better vote.
If we do lynch Pixalated today I could see me & Robik having a fun thunderdome tomorrow.
On March 31 2014 05:00 OnceKing wrote: Why did you take so long to come back? You can't blame us for having no posts on day 2 when you are part of the problem by not posting at all. Who is worse, Robik or Pixalated?
I don't know. I mean I could tell you a story for each but the fact is I trust my town reads and my scum reads from the rest are random chance.
I want Robik to be scum, that makes me nervous. So Pixalated is probably the better vote.
If we do lynch Pixalated today I could see me & Robik having a fun thunderdome tomorrow.
##UNVOTE ##VOTE: Pixalated I'll take the Thunderdome. Better than this inactivity. To everyone else: I really dislike this lynch. He's back and at least talking if not trying to figure things out. If Robik and him have it out tomorrow, then we'll have a lot to discuss and gain a lot of useful information. If they don't, then we still learn a lot through the way they're interacting. Pixalated hasn't posted at all today, and even in general only posts when someone calls his name.
On March 31 2014 05:00 OnceKing wrote: Why did you take so long to come back? You can't blame us for having no posts on day 2 when you are part of the problem by not posting at all. Who is worse, Robik or Pixalated?
I don't know. I mean I could tell you a story for each but the fact is I trust my town reads and my scum reads from the rest are random chance.
I want Robik to be scum, that makes me nervous. So Pixalated is probably the better vote.
If we do lynch Pixalated today I could see me & Robik having a fun thunderdome tomorrow.
Yo ive been out for friends bdays. Im on my phone. Pixalated still mafia. LT prolly mafia for his late jump and the derailment of his wagon was weird. Havent read anything but the first 2-5 posts of the day
On March 31 2014 05:14 IAmRobik wrote: Yo ive been out for friends bdays. Im on my phone. Pixalated still mafia. LT prolly mafia for his late jump and the derailment of his wagon was weird. Havent read anything but the first 2-5 posts of the day
On March 31 2014 05:17 OnceKing wrote: Valenius, LT - who are your other mafia suspects?
Still uncomfortable about Robik and still don't like sqrt and RJ but this Day 2 has been a disaster postingwise so I'm trying to get activity up going forward.
On March 31 2014 05:14 IAmRobik wrote: Yo ive been out for friends bdays. Im on my phone. Pixalated still mafia. LT prolly mafia for his late jump and the derailment of his wagon was weird. Havent read anything but the first 2-5 posts of the day
##vote pixalated
I can't wait for you to catch up.
##unvote: IAmRobik ##vote: Pixalated
I dont have to catch up. Iv3 been preaching this since d1. Y'all are idiots for not followijg me. Im getting drunk though so ill talk to yall a tad at night when im at work tomorrow unless you retards decide to CFD me
On March 31 2014 05:17 OnceKing wrote: Valenius, LT - who are your other mafia suspects?
I still don't believe sqrt's rb claim, so he's in the pot. I think LT's town, idk about robik. if no mafia are found today, and you/roland are alive tomorrow, i want to take a closer look at your earlier interactions.
On March 31 2014 05:17 OnceKing wrote: Valenius, LT - who are your other mafia suspects?
Still uncomfortable about Robik and still don't like sqrt and RJ but this Day 2 has been a disaster postingwise so I'm trying to get activity up going forward.
This flip should also tell us something.
I was just looking at sqrt and... I think I can make a case that he's town. Which means I'm down to two suspects which means I'm almost certainly clearing somebody incorrectly.
The case would be: sqrt just says things. No qualifiers, just what he thinks. If he was doing that high volume it would be easy to be sure. I was predisposed to find him scummy from day 1 and eden's posts and I didn't so hmmmm.
I didn't think my vote would get sqrt lynched. There appears to be a lot of inertia and not a lot of people around so I think it would take an act of congress to keep pix from being lynched now.
I hoped seeing his name in bold like that might encourage sqrt to make another post.
A few hours after sending for help once tucker died, a cop arrives at the mansion to help find the missing LoneMeow. Little did he know what he was stepping into. A few steps into the mansion and a loose, spiked wooden plate strikes him in the face killing him instantly. Thinking it was the person next to him who did that, the group quickly reaches into the officer's holster and aims for said person.
*Bang*
Pixalated playing as a College Kid has been lynched/modkilled!
Welcome to Night 2. This Night ends 24 hours from this post at Monday, Mar 31 10:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00).
You can speak at night. If you have night actions, get them in to me before the deadline. Night ends in
Okay, time to start analyzing. This next night kill is crucial for mafia. Who could it be? Who does it make sense for mafia to kill? Coming into D2, I thought that the next obvious choice is Robik. But the problem is, he hasn't posted a whole lot lately. I'm inclined to believe the birthday party excuse for Robik because he's in another game, and he hasn't posted lately on that game either. Anyways, back to the night kill. Who do you think looks the most like the doctor currently? Who does the mafia think is the doctor? Will they even go for the doctor? Or will they go for the top contributing town?
On March 31 2014 07:27 sqrtofneg1 wrote: Okay, time to start analyzing. This next night kill is crucial for mafia. Who could it be? Who does it make sense for mafia to kill? Coming into D2, I thought that the next obvious choice is Robik. But the problem is, he hasn't posted a whole lot lately. I'm inclined to believe the birthday party excuse for Robik because he's in another game, and he hasn't posted lately on that game either. Anyways, back to the night kill. Who do you think looks the most like the doctor currently? Who does the mafia think is the doctor? Will they even go for the doctor? Or will they go for the top contributing town?
this. Lord Tolkien is the kill. They won't kill Robik because he's mafia. Hope this helps.
The pivotal player for me is OnceKing. If I can be sure about him then I can go to war with confidence. That will be my focus when I read again tomorrow. Alternately sqrt could convince me he's town. I doubt anything will change my mind about Robik. If he's town then the game is already over because I am town and I'm voting him sooner or later.
I think sqrt is mafia. He keeps assuming there's a medic in the setup which would keep him consistent with his convenient claim to have been roleblocked.
On March 31 2014 08:13 OnceKing wrote: I think sqrt is mafia. He keeps assuming there's a medic in the setup which would keep him consistent with his convenient claim to have been roleblocked.
Reads atm
Towniest of towns tier OnceKing
Probably town tier RJ LT Valenius
Sketchy tier Robik
Scum tier sqrt
Well, what do you want me to expect? I was roleblocked, and that means there's a medic in the setup.
On March 31 2014 08:13 OnceKing wrote: I think sqrt is mafia. He keeps assuming there's a medic in the setup which would keep him consistent with his convenient claim to have been roleblocked.
Reads atm
Towniest of towns tier OnceKing
Probably town tier RJ LT Valenius
Sketchy tier Robik
Scum tier sqrt
Well, what do you want me to expect? I was roleblocked, and that means there's a medic in the setup.
Then stop asking about it. If you're town YOU DONT WANT TO KNOW WHO'S MEDIC. The only ones who wants to know are SCUM so they can nightkill him.
On March 31 2014 08:13 OnceKing wrote: I think sqrt is mafia. He keeps assuming there's a medic in the setup which would keep him consistent with his convenient claim to have been roleblocked.
Reads atm
Towniest of towns tier OnceKing
Probably town tier RJ LT Valenius
Sketchy tier Robik
Scum tier sqrt
Well, what do you want me to expect? I was roleblocked, and that means there's a medic in the setup.
Then stop asking about it. If you're town YOU DONT WANT TO KNOW WHO'S MEDIC. The only ones who wants to know are SCUM so they can nightkill him.
On March 31 2014 08:13 OnceKing wrote: I think sqrt is mafia. He keeps assuming there's a medic in the setup which would keep him consistent with his convenient claim to have been roleblocked.
Reads atm
Towniest of towns tier OnceKing
Probably town tier RJ LT Valenius
Sketchy tier Robik
Scum tier sqrt
Well, what do you want me to expect? I was roleblocked, and that means there's a medic in the setup.
Then stop asking about it. If you're town YOU DONT WANT TO KNOW WHO'S MEDIC. The only ones who wants to know are SCUM so they can nightkill him.
Well, too late now.
It's a cease and desist. Sure, it's fine to let us know you were roleblocked. But stop asking about the medic jeez.
sqrt has made a large number of questionable posts this game. Let's examine his posts after the short-lived joke phase. Here is sqrt's first large post. Unfortunately over half of this post is actually just quoting LT, and as noted previously by both Valenius and myself he makes no original contribution in it. Of further interest, however, are the several inconsistencies in this post. In the initial overview, he writes...
Val hasn't been doing much, other than questioning the lurker policy, (kind of like me) so no read on him.
But then he goes and says this:
He demotes Val to leaning town. Maybe he now realizes that he was too obvious in pushing Val for town. If he's mafia, Val's also mafia.
He also makes a scumtrap that's horribly planned out. Top mafia in my eyes.
How can Valenius be a null read if he and LT are scum partners, and LT is top scum? It doesn't make sense. After that he continues to parrot things that were already said before.
Later on in response to some questions I ask him he makes this post. Notice how he completely avoids taking sides on Valenius's reads other than the one on him -- here it seems he's very carefully trying to avoid attention or disagreeing with anyone, except for the "obvious" one to say that he's town.
The parroting continues: here observing something Eden, Robik and I already said; here he says something that I stated previously, and even here I directly ask him if he's got anything of his own to add he blatantly says "Other than the ones already mentioned, no." as if to insist those are his own.
Furthermore he keeps talking about town power roles, trying to fish for a doctor claim. Upon realizing that there's a cop he also says that he's been roleblocked knowing full well that especially with the cop dead there's no way we can verify the existence of either a medic or a roleblocker, and repeatedlysubtly nudgingdiscussiontowardssetup. Here's another example:
On March 31 2014 07:27 sqrtofneg1 wrote: Okay, time to start analyzing. This next night kill is crucial for mafia. Who could it be? Who does it make sense for mafia to kill? Coming into D2, I thought that the next obvious choice is Robik. But the problem is, he hasn't posted a whole lot lately. I'm inclined to believe the birthday party excuse for Robik because he's in another game, and he hasn't posted lately on that game either. Anyways, back to the night kill. Who do you think looks the most like the doctor currently? Who does the mafia think is the doctor? Will they even go for the doctor? Or will they go for the top contributing town?
What's the point of all these questions? Do they even serve a purpose towards clearing up the picture? (spoiler: answer is no). He's just asking questions to ask questions.
On day 2 here are his opening posts:
On March 30 2014 10:50 sqrtofneg1 wrote: Wait a second, wait a second. Robik is usually very loud and active. Right now, he's not. Suspicious.
On March 31 2014 01:39 sqrtofneg1 wrote: I'm gonna go for RJ. #Vote RolandJarvis
So Robik's suspicious, but he votes for RJ without explanation? He only posts again at the end of day to hop onto Pixalated instead, and then has this piece of gold:
On March 31 2014 07:17 sqrtofneg1 wrote: Well, this makes me look bad, doesn't it?
Here sqrt demonstrates a concern about what people think of him or how what he posts looks. Let's consider a townie's perspective: he wants to get his point across no matter what and push for what he thinks, regardless of how unpopular the opinion is. Therefore he's not worried about blending in, or if things make him look bad because he posts with the conviction of being correct. On the other hand a mafia member's posting is much more fearful. He doesn't want to say things that too many people disagree with because then people will start asking questions and pressuring him, and the last thing he wants is to have to deal with pressure. He is overly concerned with his appearance, wanting to stay on everyone's good side so that he doesn't get lynched. And he doesn't want to add new information to the town because every piece of the puzzle town finds is a step closer to his death.
Which does sqrt's posting sound like? Which is sqrt's alignment? sqrtofneg1 must be scum.
Night 1 Robik was quite angry with eden. Eden was not having it and fired back hard. Robik quickly backed down.
Yesterday Tolkien and Valenius were quite angry with me for my extended non-posting. My replies were pretty passive. Their anger persisted.
This is why I keep saying never lynch Tolkien and Valenius. Their anger was real. I could feel the hate coming from Valenius. Scum has no reason to be really angry with me. Me not posting makes it easier for them to not post. Sure they might fake it but this was real. Now if I had played differently and fired back hard at Tolkien and Valenius saying they were very wrong and I was right, do you think they back down quickly? Of course not. That's not how real anger works.
But that is what Robik did. This is why I think his anger was faked, calculated to make him look good. But he couldn't win a prolonged battle with eden so he ended the fight. I was prepared to read hundreds of posts of recriminations but actually it was over almost as soon as it started. It doesn't make sense. Town can't calm down that fast from being that angry about something that important. Emotions don't work like that. Scum can though because it's fake.
It still amazes me that neither Robik nor sqrt tried to interact with me at all when they returned yesterday. I was the lead wagon much of the day and that goes away and they have absolutely nothing to say about it. I was gunning for Robik and he didn't even acknowledge that. I talked about sqrt on both sides, he ignored it. But he was around after the reveal? I don't get it.
So I was out partying all weekend, hence my lack of participation. At some point when we were drinking on Sunday, and I'm lying on the couch, I realized we'd be absolutely fucked if I got modkilled, so I made sure to at least get my post in. As I'm writing this, I may have even been the lynch, so I'm going to go and see if that was the case or whether we lynched scum!pixalated.
Ooookay, so Pixalated wasn't mafia. That sucks. He was scummy as fuck for all the reasons I pointed out on d1. We're in a really shitty spot now as tomorrow is lylo. We MUST lynch correctly.
At this point, a lot will depend on the night kill. I presume based off of my inactivity during the weekend, and how wrong I was about pixalated, I'll probably be left alive as a likely mislynch candidate. I guess I have no one to blame for that but myself. It's obvious that my reads this game have no been top notch. I'm gonna have to do some serious soul searching to try to figure out who the 2 mafia are.
I don't wanna post too many things, but there are certain individuals who don't look like they're mafia to me, and certain individuals who do look like mafia but don't really make sense as a group. I think everone should read their top 2 suspects and try to determine if those people can be a mafia pair (i did this, and realized that the two I'm thinking are probably not together)
On March 31 2014 21:30 RolandJarvis wrote: It still amazes me that neither Robik nor sqrt tried to interact with me at all when they returned yesterday. I was the lead wagon much of the day and that goes away and they have absolutely nothing to say about it. I was gunning for Robik and he didn't even acknowledge that. I talked about sqrt on both sides, he ignored it. But he was around after the reveal? I don't get it.
Do you read the thread or do you just post this nonsense? You said "i don't have time for you to catch up" when I clearly had no plan on catching up yesterday. I was out drinking all of saturday and then we woke up and went to brunch of sunday. We came back to my friend's apartment and I was lying on the couch drinking a Racer 5 and watching Wolf of Wall St when I realized that I hadn't posted and that it was imperative for me to do so. So I did to not get modkilled so that we have a chance to win. I had _NO_ idea that you were "gunning for me"
It's night 2. You've pushed nobody. You've not cared who gets lynched. You've made no effort to clear anybody. Yes you have posts they say things but you aren't trying to persuade anybody, you aren't trying to get your way.
This is a complete mismatch with an experienced player who is going to show everybody how to play. If you were town you'd be making reads on everybody and selling them. You'd challenge people who disagree with you. There'd be no doubt about your reads, everybody would KNOW. You'd be terrified about being nk'd and want to make a post solving the game before you died thinking we'd all follow it.
Nobody was surprised you didn't die n1. Nobody is going to be surprised when you don't die tonight.
To answer your point, it's not the showing up drunk at EOD that's a problem. It's that you made it all the way to EOD without having voted. You just waited until the lynch was decided and made a safe vote. Again. Just like day 1.
You see yourself as a leader. This is not the behavior of a town leader and that only leaves one team for ya.
On April 01 2014 00:21 RolandJarvis wrote: To answer your point, it's not the showing up drunk at EOD that's a problem. It's that you made it all the way to EOD without having voted. You just waited until the lynch was decided and made a safe vote. Again. Just like day 1.
You see yourself as a leader. This is not the behavior of a town leader and that only leaves one team for ya.
1) you're being a hypocrite cause you didn't vote until EOD either 2) I wasn't around until EOD ... hell. I wasn't even around AT EOD. I was in the thread for less than 5 minutes. I was on my phone. I wasn't reading anything. I just voted who I wanted to vote. I didn't even know what the wagons were and I didn't even stick around to see who was lynched.
On April 01 2014 00:21 RolandJarvis wrote: To answer your point, it's not the showing up drunk at EOD that's a problem. It's that you made it all the way to EOD without having voted. You just waited until the lynch was decided and made a safe vote. Again. Just like day 1.
You see yourself as a leader. This is not the behavior of a town leader and that only leaves one team for ya.
1) you're being a hypocrite cause you didn't vote until EOD either 2) I wasn't around until EOD ... hell. I wasn't even around AT EOD. I was in the thread for less than 5 minutes. I was on my phone. I wasn't reading anything. I just voted who I wanted to vote. I didn't even know what the wagons were and I didn't even stick around to see who was lynched.
1) Nope. For one I read the thread (took no time) and gave opinions on most players while the lynch was actually being decided. More importantly though, I haven't put myself out there as an expert and a leader. I am just a guy trying out mafia at team liquid. If I don't like it I just disappear. I could not have less ego invested in this game. You care about your rep here. But you don't care who gets lynched. That is the contradiction that gives you away.
2) You are making my case for me. You had no idea who was being lynched day 2 and you didn't care. You have no responsibility for anything that happened. I understand and agree with you. We disagree about what that means.
At some point you are going to have to take a stand on players, starting with me. Which way will you go?
On April 01 2014 00:21 RolandJarvis wrote: To answer your point, it's not the showing up drunk at EOD that's a problem. It's that you made it all the way to EOD without having voted. You just waited until the lynch was decided and made a safe vote. Again. Just like day 1.
You see yourself as a leader. This is not the behavior of a town leader and that only leaves one team for ya.
1) you're being a hypocrite cause you didn't vote until EOD either 2) I wasn't around until EOD ... hell. I wasn't even around AT EOD. I was in the thread for less than 5 minutes. I was on my phone. I wasn't reading anything. I just voted who I wanted to vote. I didn't even know what the wagons were and I didn't even stick around to see who was lynched.
1) Nope. For one I read the thread (took no time) and gave opinions on most players while the lynch was actually being decided. More importantly though, I haven't put myself out there as an expert and a leader. I am just a guy trying out mafia at team liquid. If I don't like it I just disappear. I could not have less ego invested in this game. You care about your rep here. But you don't care who gets lynched. That is the contradiction that gives you away.
2) You are making my case for me. You had no idea who was being lynched day 2 and you didn't care. You have no responsibility for anything that happened. I understand and agree with you. We disagree about what that means.
At some point you are going to have to take a stand on players, starting with me. Which way will you go?
I'm pretty sure that I took a stance on everyone in this game. Not sure why you are making false statements about my play and expressing them as 100% facts.
I don't care how long it took you to read or catch up. I didn't have time to read or catch up whatsoever this weekend. So I didn't. I voted the person who I thought was the scummiest throughout the game. I had ZERO clue who the wagons were and if there was a push on me, there have been no way for me to stop it. All I knew was that I had to post and I had to vote for the person who I thought was the scummiest. If you're saying that my having a life outside of this game expresses that I don't care a) about this game b) who got lynched, those are both incorrect statements.
On April 01 2014 09:36 sqrtofneg1 wrote: Yes, that means mafia know, or highly, highly suspect I'm doctor, which means there's no reason to withhold that piece of info from town.
If you had of withheld today, I'd have pretty much lynched you anyway. The optimal play today is to claim.
On March 30 2014 02:33 sqrtofneg1 wrote: OnceKing is currently my top town. He was the first one to vote me this day, and that creates a lot of attention. I doubt that mafia want that to happen to them.
That leaves Val + LT as mafia team. LT looks a bit more safe because he kept on telling me to stop talking about doctor last night. Which leaves you top mafia.
On March 28 2014 06:34 RolandJarvis wrote: I am nervous about who won't be around and the possibility of no accountability vote switches in the name of not lynching the claim.
This is after Cav claimed cop. RJ knows it's the truth, and tries to get people to switch over so that cop dies. Scum play.
So here was my thought process. Eden is the most contributing player currently. He is a prime target for the night kill, but what happens if he gets killed? 1. Robik and I look guilty, because we're the ones most under suspicion by Eden. 2. We lose the most contributing player. 3. He gets confirmed town.
What if RJ gets killed? 1. He gets confirmed town. 2. We lose an analyst.
So logically, Eden was the better save. But what if Eden is mafia? Then mafia would probably kill RJ. But what if RJ was mafia? Then mafia would possibly kill Eden.
Why? Because Eden's on the wrong track atm, he's chasing town, and mafia knows that, and probably will leave him be, to get a town kill next day. If neither Eden and RJ are mafia, I thought the kill will be RJ.
On April 01 2014 09:49 Valenius wrote: I'll take another look in the morning, but my initial impressions are that you're lying out of your ass.
Tolkien, i still want a yes/no as to whether you're doctor.
I understand where you're coming from. Because I'm the only one who's ever been roleblocked, there's no evidence other than my word that it is setup A. Which means that even if everyone else says they're not doctor, it doesn't automatically make me doctor. But you guys will have to believe me.
On April 01 2014 09:49 Valenius wrote: I'll take another look in the morning, but my initial impressions are that you're lying out of your ass.
Tolkien, i still want a yes/no as to whether you're doctor.
I understand where you're coming from. Because I'm the only one who's ever been roleblocked, there's no evidence other than my word that it is setup A. Which means that even if everyone else says they're not doctor, it doesn't automatically make me doctor. But you guys will have to believe me.
I thought you were blue from Day 1. If I were mafia, you'd be in the fucking ground. I'll try to find the post which really made me think it.
OnceKing brings up policy. I kind of disagree with bringing it up so early, but I think it was a town mindset that he did it. I read town.
Eden is clearly town.
Val hasn't been doing much, other than questioning the lurker policy, (kind of like me) so no read on him.
LT clears Val in this post:
On March 26 2014 19:13 Lord Tolkien wrote: I still need to read the LIII mafia game thoroughly. However.
OnceKing sounds town as all fk. I was originally suspicious of his initial "serious" post due to OK's early Day 1 behavior versus early Day 1 LII newbie mafia game and was going to comment on it, but I re-read the old thread and reversed my initial opinion on it (originally thought it was inconsistent, but I reread his case on Amiko and it didn't mention the lurker lynch policy). He's been pushing town towards active discussion since then, asking for reads, and generally steering conversation towards positive goals, so he's establishing himself as town thus far.
IAmRobik also feels town to me, though I still question why he feels OK's post is out of place given the context (unless it was scumbait, that was my first thought). The post is still useful pressure and discussion for town, though, and there is no reason for scum to be so forward, so early on in the day, especially with the possible game-states (no godfather game-state). And his posts subsequent read fairly town.
Valenius is super town in my eyes, he's cleared for me.
Pixelated is neutral or slightly scummy to me.
Eden feels even more town for me. He's actively pushing the Cavalinho case and scumhunting aggressively in Day 1, while being the most active contributor to the thread thus far. Clearest town poster in my mind, as he's giving reasoned arguments here.
Cavalinho sounds...well, aggressive in all his posts. And he's OMGUSing without presenting a case, period. But given his past game behavior, he also does this when he's town so I'm not sure if my scrumread on him is wrong. Like, this is almost a repeat of LII Day 1 in terms of the Cavalinho lynch progression, however without any substance from him. I'm leaving him as possible scum atm tho I'm confused by it. Maybe the most scummiest read I have, even his past town play aside. Like
I also happen to think his OMGUS vote is him trying to look innocent because he's aware of his meta (not the post beforehand he noted that Robik townread him in a previous game because he OMGUS'd then), but that can go either way. What's telling is that he fails to develop his vote, he just puts it down and insists it'll be me or him today. That's dumb and not what a town player should be doing.
This is actually a strong analysis of what I was trying to say.
You know what, Cavalinho isn't angry and pissed off enough to have the righteous indignation like his LII newbie game, nor still tries to contribute. Or hell, contribute an actual case for his OMGUSing.
sqrtofneg1 has thus far been fairly disconcerting to me. I indulged him with the Hearthstone convo, and I think that's irrelevant to the thread thus far. It was a fair shot at getting something going, if inflating his filter/post. After the first actual serious post to pop up Day 1 (the OK policy lynch), he posted this
Fun fact: I've been mafia once, only once, in my fair amount of irl games.
and didn't respond to the looming topic at hand, then had a sleep post. Like, its non-contributive lurking at best. There was definitely things available to comment on at the time of his sleep post. Hell, by the time of that post, IAmRobik had already made his wtf post about OnceKing's lynch policy post. It piggybacks off IAmRobik's joke posts, but he at least follows up with substance after there's clearly something to respond to. He still has time to become an active contributor, but seems to be a scum lurker to me. Probably my primary lynch target today because I'm still fking confused by the signals given off by Cavalinho's playstyle and posting patterns.
In what world does a mafia come into the game and start talking to himself for 10 posts? Mafia has all the reason in the world to sit back and not do shit and contribute when something is happening and then push some random town who is on the chopping blocks. I don't give a damn if it was 10 posts of filler about how he's doing today and how his HS run was going.
The exact same reason you were pushing on OK for: because it's good to make the appearance of contribution. idgaf about the HS posts too much, but the fact he continued the joke posting and made a sleep post before contributing anything useful makes me unhappy.
Quick point to RolandJarvis before the plunge, that was a continued joke post. I was jokingly referencing the LII newbie game where I was OMGUSing OK hard for focusing on me Day 1 (mostly for some inconsistencies in his case). Posted that and the correction right as OK was posting the policy lynch post (note the policy lynch post being nestled between that post and the edit), which is the first serious post of the game, which should have been a clue. I'm overall happy with your contribution, however, and I would recommend you read the LII newbie game, since quite a few of the players here were in that game (and should give you a general idea of our playstyles as town (I think all of us present played as town that game), so you can get a feel for us. You voiced the concern about OK only voicing his read on IAmRobik, but his playstyle is (at least, going off his LII and stated gameplay) to only give his strongest reads. So this isn't inconsistent or scummy for me, just how he plays. Just like how Cavalinho still confuses the fk out of me.
Or you might have and the mistaken use of punctuation in the post confused you.
Overall, I'm quite happy with the way this thread activity has been. no ded gaem
Also, my sleep schedule is fked up, so I may be responding at odd times such as this.
Even though he hasn't done anything. Why would he do that? But wait, there's more. His next post is this:
- Reads on Valenius and Pixalated. ...how? Valenius asked some good questions to develop OnceKing's policy, but that's all. Certainly a good start but not nearly enough to declare him "super town" or "cleared." Especially in light of the fact that he said Pixalated is neutral-to-scummy... I have Pixalated as neutral-to-town if anything, but to be honest they've done virtually the same thing here (not post much, make solid contributions where they did). There's a lack of explanation for either read, which on its own doesn't say much, but...
ZzZ. I knew I should've tried posting that part some other time. Or maybe I should've approached it with more subtlety (see: any subtlety at all).
Was trying to scumbait with it when questioning Cavalinho and sqrt. Was trying to see if they would piggyback off of it. Went back and deleted those sections specifically to try.
My true reads: Valenius leans town at best. I'm hesitant to call him anything at this stage of the game, when his only post is at best asking for a PAINFULLY obvious clarification on a policy. Or in other words, in line with what everyone else has said.
Pixelated is leaning town. He's had more posts and has given reads on sqrt and Valenius, but the main crux of their points have been similar to what OK and others in the thread have said (not much to be said this early into the game, however). He was however the first to defend OK's post (outside of OK), and rightly so. If we're continuing with the Cavalinho lynch, it is...unlikely for them to simultaneously bandwagon on a possible lynch and defend the person in question.
- His position on Cavalinho is inconsistently soft wrt the rest of his list. Notice the "almost" above -- the one big exception is the guy that I personally think is obviously scum. He does some lip service to the idea (e.g. "these things should mark him clear scum"), but then handwaves every point he raises for Cavalinho on a shaky meta argument (e.g. "mark him as clear scum, but... might just be his playstyle). He says Cavalinho is "maybe the most scummiest read he has"*, but then declares sqrt his "probable" lynch target today. There's a lot of waffling on Cavalinho that isn't present with the others. (PREVIEW EDIT: Even concedes the case is strong, but still has sqrt as his top suspect. p l s)
This is again going off of my experience with Cavalinho in LII, though the more you prod, the more I think you may be right about me softballing Cavalinho. I may be trying to discern too much off meta, and am letting how LII Day 1 went color my view of the game and his (pretty scummy) actions too much.
- His rationale for sqrt is weak. Of a handful of inactives so far he's singling out one post of sqrt's (the "I've never drawn mafia" post) as the thing that's so disconcerting to him? Already zeroed in on sqrt being a scum lurker and wants to lynch him over aforesaid "maybe most scummiest read"*? That's just strange to me because nothing that sqrt has done has been alignment-indicative yet.
As I EXPLICITLY note, it was posted AFTER the serious posting began, and AFTER IAmRobik's wtf on OK. The timestamp is key: if it were before that, and even OK's post, whatever. idgaf because that was part of the joke phase. That's what I find the most disconcerting of his posting, versus Valenius (whose post at least addressed something serious).
- Preview edit point: That last question is such a softball! Ideal to ask your fake scum read and your scum buddy, terrible as town. Why wouldn't he ask about the things Cavalinho and sqrt are doing that makes them suspicious to him?
My main issue with sqrt again is the timing of his post and decision to start lurking at that juncture, which makes me far more leery of him over Valenius. Look at the time stamps: 3.5 hours between OK's post and Valenius's question and his sleep post, 4 minutes between Robik's wtf post and his highlighted post, and 11 minutes between the post I highlighted and his sleep post. Certainly there's time to post...something serious? When we had clearly moved past the jokes votes?
Putting him among my top scum reads is/was a means to pressure him into posting something of value and see if he posts anything that makes me pursue that line of inquiry. Similarly, the main thing which Cavalinho isn't doing is giving anything of substance in his posts. This is also why I was posting a full reads list, to see if there was any piggybacking going on.
He demotes Val to leaning town. Maybe he now realizes that he was too obvious in pushing Val for town. If he's mafia, Val's also mafia.
He also makes a scumtrap that's horribly planned out. Top mafia in my eyes.
Robik's playing aggressive, as he normally does. He's been pressuring pretty much everybody, as a town should do. The one thing that I don't like is that he got a town read on my on joke posts before the game. that's strange. I read town.
Pixalated is probably town. He's trying to logically put together the picture, and he's a bit quiet. He's suspicious of the right guys, he's cleared the right guys. I say town, with blue role. The blue role is because he's quiet. + Show Spoiler +
Cav seems mafia, with the same reasons as Robik and Eden.
RJ is town, good reads, good logic.
So it's either Cav + someone who I misread, or LT and Val.
As soon as you said that, I thought you were blue. The only reason I made the post saying that I'm willing to reevaluate anyone is so that mafia wouldn't be suspicious of you
Okay, after reading through the filters again, I have slightly changed my view.
OnceKing is town. He's the one who brought up policy first thing. He's been thinking I'm scum from pretty much Day 1, and he's been asking me questions and pressuring me.
Valenius is mafia. Due to process of elimination.
LordTolkien is town. He did the scum trap thingy. He kept on telling me not to talk about doctor last night.
IAmRobik is mafia. Due to process of elimination. And also, normally, he doesn't doubt himself that much, he's really aggressive. This game, however, he's a bit less than that.
On March 27 2014 06:00 IAmRobik wrote: What's confusing? I think he's town and i'm prolly just being paranoid that he could be mafia.
On March 28 2014 01:05 IAmRobik wrote: So, I don't remember discussing pixalated at all, so I decided I'm gonna read his filter.
This makes me think that pixalated will be bringing up how he perceives people would play based off of the previous newbie game. Will keep reading his filter and see if he brings any of this up:
On March 25 2014 15:58 Pixalated wrote: Sup guys, first game here.
I did read through a couple of games though (including the previous newbie which some of you played in!) so I should (hopefully) know what I'm doing haha
Pixalated makes a reasonable point here, but he doesn't really take a stance on OK. He's very wishy washy with his "conclusion":
On March 26 2014 13:02 Pixalated wrote: I don't see any problem with onceking talking about policy. The thread before he came in was all empty and fluff with people talking about hearthstone and whatnot. He pushed the conversation to something that has some relevance to the game. Sure, talking about policy is a good way for scum to 'contribute' without actually doing much, but it's still better than talking about hearthstone.
I guess I can see how Pixalated would perceive Valenius's post this way, but as I explained, it had to do with the way that he approached OK's lynch all lurkers sentiments. Maybe I was just tunnely regarding OK earlier which was what made me think that this post was towny. But Valenius makes a long post later which I found town, so I'm cool with him anyway:
On March 26 2014 13:08 Pixalated wrote: I also don't see why you think Val is town just because he asked onceking to clarify his shit. It was a pretty useless question, it's easy to understand what onceking wanted to achieve with that post - create the atmosphere that no one can lurk and has to post.
But instead all he does is make a rather long post asking about potential situations blabla... When I think that it's pretty clear - if we have a solid read we lynch it, if not we lynch a lurker. Seems like he's trying to be helpful without actually being helpful.
I like that he takes a stance on me here. It's perfectly fine for him to not like me, especially if he thinks that OK is leading town in the right direction...having said that, it's kinda weird too, because he said earlier that it's easy to look like you're contributing without actually contributing if you're talkinga bout policy...so maybe he doesn't exactly agree with OK? idk:
On March 26 2014 13:47 Pixalated wrote: I don't like how he cleared both sqrt and val. Already explained why I don't feel that Val's questions make him town, and sqrt posting random stuff doesn't mean much.
What this means about his alignment I'm not sure. Could be mafia trying to get cred by claiming that people are townie and having 'right' reads when they flip.
Pixalated definitely taking stances on people. If LT is mafia, pixalated is almost certainly town for this post:
On March 26 2014 20:23 Pixalated wrote: Hey Tolkien, how is Val 'super town in my eyes, he's cleared for me.' He has posted like one post that isn't fluff, and you clear him based off just that? Is that because everyone here is reading him as town for some reason? (I don't see why but okay)
I agree with Eden's post about him. Furthermore from what I remember from reading his previous game (the one he mentioned) he was ALOT more active as compared to this. I will go take a peek at his filter there in abit.
@Tolkien Why am I neutral/slightly scummy? Elaborate please.
Cavalinho doesn't look too good as well.
This is really weird for me. Pixalated casually mentions a scum read on Cavalinho a couple posts earlier, but his main focus is LT. He then makes another 2 posts that have somethign to do with LT and then boom, he votes for Cavalinho, sheeping Eden:
OK town, so Cavalinho is either terrible at reading comprehension or trying to distort what I'm saying. Let's review.
Again it's not that he said OnceKing's start was weird, it's that he didn't do anything to figure out why it was weird or tell us how it was weird. He asked OK why OK made a post about policy lynching lurkers, OK said it was to get the town out of RVS. That's not weird. Cavalinho didn't bother to respond to him and then kept repeating himself about how weird it was. No explanation as to why or how that's weird, no attempt to develop OK's response, nothing.
His questions didn't have any apparent direction or purpose to them. He asked OK why OK made the post, OK gave a good answer aaaand... Cavalinho drops it like a hot potato. No follow up? Nothing? Why are we supposed to be convinced that OK is weird or scum or whatever when you're just asking questions to ask them and not developing any insights from them? He asserts that he was asking questions because he didn't understand what was going on, but you'll notice that he doesn't acknowledge OK's answer at all. Instead he starts playing reactively, answering OK's questions and then dropping the line of discussion. That's not what people do when they're trying to understand what's going on. He vaguely talks around the issue right before I prodded him, saying that he thinks OK's start was still weird, but that he "[doesn't] have any real reason to think [OK] is mafia" because of his "last accusatory post" (what post is this?) and he "seems townie, getting information and generally being one of those obvious town players" (this doesn't actually say anything about why he doesn't think OK is mafia; we know that he wouldn't think that because he thinks OK seems town, why does he?)
I also happen to think his OMGUS vote is him trying to look innocent because he's aware of his meta (not the post beforehand he noted that Robik townread him in a previous game because he OMGUS'd then), but that can go either way. What's telling is that he fails to develop his vote, he just puts it down and insists it'll be me or him today. That's dumb and not what a town player should be doing.
Cavalinho is my best read for mafia right now.
and I think it sums up very nicely.
So, I think he's letting LT off the hook really quickly here. Nothing that LT said has really answered Pixalated's questions, and if it has, it's as if Pixalated just takes his word for it at face value. I retract my earlier statement that they can't be mafia together.
On March 26 2014 21:53 Pixalated wrote: Still prefer a Cav lynch.
I can see what LT means by me posting that on sqrt can constitute as a null read. In fact it matches since his next line is how my points were similar to those already in the thread, and my original point was indeed something that wasn't exactly fresh (Onceking said the same thing) whilst sqrt being a little suspicious (what I said later) wasn't mentioned by anyone else if I recall correctly.
The trap thing is still really bad though, and I agree its really suspicious on how fast he revealed it with only me and you pushing him for it so far. Still it sort of makes sense as town to cut his losses on a bad decision, since I believe it would probably have flowed into cav and sqrt simply ignoring his question, and they wouldn't sheep someone under fire. Still a really bad trap of course, but I can sort of see this as really bad town play. I like your point about the time gap between the 'bait' and 'trap' though, and I think thats my biggest gripe with the entire trap thing.
I think he agured the point that I brought up about the contradiction I pointed out pretty well, makes sense.
Cav on the other hand hasn't done much to redeem himself, and I would like to see more from him. (specifically a GOOD explanation on why he found OK's initial post weird)
I expect him to follow up on this. Will see if he does (same goes for bringing up the previous newbie game, which I haven't seen him do yet)
On March 27 2014 01:19 Pixalated wrote: I need to sleep so ill be going off.
I want to see val and sqrt post more. It has been 18 hours and they haven't done anything of note. Val promised to post something earlier, so I expect to see something when I wake up.
I guess it's a bit hypocritical of me to bring this up, but from everything Pixalated is writing it seems that LT is his biggest scum read (his personal biggest scum read, not the one he sheeped off of Eden), but he refuses to vote him:
- The slip in the followup post. I never said anything about whether this is the right or wrong day. Looks to me like lies are piling up on top of lies here.
Why are you dodging answering this? Context: this is point 5 of eden's agurement. Here's your answer to it:
5) You just made a case about my second post being 20 minutes following up my first post. sqrt had 3 and 1/2 hours since VALENIUS posted his question to OK, and 15 minutes to Robik's WTF to OK's post, and had time to make a joke post referencing Robik joking about never being mafia on TL. Perhaps it's just me, but I really dislike that.
Conclusions: Pixalated might be scum here. He kinda takes stances on people, but he keeps flipping back and forth. It seems throughout the day that LT is his biggest scum read, but he ends up just sheeping Eden regarding Cav. He keeps pressuring LT but never ends up voting him.
Another thing that he does, is make statements like "valeniusa nd sqrt need to post more" and "i read the previous game, but he does nothing with those. He doesn't pressure valenius or sqrt to post more, he doesn't call them out for it again, even though they posted a bit after I guess. But like, I'd expect something along the lines of "hey, so and so posted more, and I guess I like what he's said so I'm gonna lean town on him" or something like that, but he doesn't do it. He also doesn't make inferences from the previous game, which I'd assume he's make if he read it. This makes me think that at times he's just posting for the sake of posting.
1) Don't POE me 2) It's not even right 3) I obv doubt myself when my top scum read turns out to be town
Here's an example from Heavyweight Champ game where I was town (link below for reference):
On March 27 2014 23:54 IAmRobik wrote: the end of 42-43 marv/hf interactions reads so fake and so forced it's almost making me reconsider the whole fucking game.
Just cause I doubt myself doesn't make me scum. Doubting myself is natural cause I'm town and I need to reevaluate things as new information is brought forward.
On April 01 2014 07:43 Valenius wrote: Once / LT - I'd prefer a speedy response from you if possible. It should be early evening for you guys right?
Also, if you're doubting why i'm asking, Robik, you can back me up that it's the right play, right?
On April 01 2014 07:45 IAmRobik wrote: If you're doing what I think you're doing, then I approve. Otherwise, I'm kinda nervous about the implications.
For the record, I forgot that I thought that sqrt was blue, and I thought you were trying to trap someone and bait out a fake medic claim (and that you were going to claim medic)
On March 27 2014 23:54 IAmRobik wrote: the end of 42-43 marv/hf interactions reads so fake and so forced it's almost making me reconsider the whole fucking game.
Just cause I doubt myself doesn't make me scum. Doubting myself is natural cause I'm town and I need to reevaluate things as new information is brought forward.
Looking at that game's filter, I've reconsidered. What's POE?
I'm pooped today, and I'll post more later but quick responses for now:
1) I am not doctor. That being said, I'm not sure what to make of sqrt's claims. He could be making this shit up as scum do know the setup to know there won't be a counterclaim. I'm just going to ignore all this talk of blues and roleblocks because I have no fking clue whether to believe it or not.
2) I...don't get what Robik's case against me is? Can you elaborate?
I'm going to reread filters later tonight to figure out who the second mafia is. But initial impressions:
#vote sqrt
I said it before and I'll say it again, being a blue role is no excuse for being scummy as fk.
Yeah I've thought about it and I don't believe you at all sqrt. On top of what I've said before, you're consistently town reading me for weak reasons, probably because you don't think you can get me lynched and just want me on your good side. Your logic for the supposed night saves is unbelievably convoluted, which is to be expected since you needed to make up rationale and wanted to make something that was complicated enough so that we couldn't look at it and say "wow that's a load of bullshit".
In addition, as I've said before, it turns out really convenient for you that you get to claim doctor and having been roleblocked every time. Consider this: we don't know whether the setup contains a roleblocker and medic in addition to the parity cop -- only the scumteam knows. Then it's safest for scumteam to try to throw suspicion off one of their members by claiming medic knowing that he can't possibly be counterclaimed because there is no medic. Awfully convenient if the mafia member closest to being lynched suddenly claims a role no one else will! Same thing with the roleblocks -- I bet no one counterclaimed roleblocks because there's no roleblocker. Is it a wild coincidence you got roleblocked two nights in a row?
"W-well m-m-maybe they KNEW I was m-medic!" Please. If they knew you were medic, why wouldn't they just shoot you? There would be nothing stopping that! In fact the entire situation that Robik is backing your claim suddenly makes it evident this is a poorly thought out gambit by the scum team to try to win ASAP. You two were even RJ's scum reads, so you guys shot him to prevent him from pushing any further -- the logic here is clear and simple unlike your huge mess.
None of your actions match what a real doctor would do -- a real doctor is town and plays like town, not scum (which is what you've played like).
On April 01 2014 11:26 OnceKing wrote: "W-well m-m-maybe they KNEW I was m-medic!" Please. If they knew you were medic, why wouldn't they just shoot you? There would be nothing stopping that! In fact the entire situation that Robik is backing your claim suddenly makes it evident this is a poorly thought out gambit by the scum team to try to win ASAP. You two were even RJ's scum reads, so you guys shot him to prevent him from pushing any further -- the logic here is clear and simple unlike your huge mess.
None of your actions match what a real doctor would do -- a real doctor is town and plays like town, not scum (which is what you've played like).
They probably kept me alive for a pretty easy mislynch. Which is where we're headed to.
On April 01 2014 07:45 IAmRobik wrote: If you're doing what I think you're doing, then I approve. Otherwise, I'm kinda nervous about the implications.
For the record, I forgot that I thought that sqrt was blue, and I thought you were trying to trap someone and bait out a fake medic claim (and that you were going to claim medic)
Im phone posting now so I cant put it in too much detail, but id mapped out what a doctor claim from each of you guys meant in terms of sqrt, and potential scum pairings. If there was no doctor claim (or sqrt claims) then the (obvious) first thing is to decide if he's lying. If he is lying, then I advise each of you to go look at his interactions with everyone so far this game, and come up with what pairs work, and which dont.
Alright, the only mafia pair that makes any sense without major wifom (for me) is sqrt and Robik, and matches my current scum feelings (they haven't really changed since Day 2, god that was a disaster day). If sqrt is mafia with anyone, it's Robik. With Valenius and OK's voting on sqrt through the day and my own stand on him Day 1, it makes no sense for them to be partners with sqrt (or me).
The only other thing I find believable is Val and OK, or Robik and OK, and that requires quite some WIFOM do to their day 1 moves.
Starts off the day joking about HS with sqrt. That's fine. Votes sqrt jokingly Votes OK for some reason claiming "my renewed ok scum sense is tingling" but then agrees with OK regarding lynching lurkers
Now this is where it gets interesting: Gives his list of reads along with "trying to make a play"
His reads are: "OK sounds town as all fk" -- even though he just said that his scum senses are telling him that OK is maf I am town, but apparently my motives are suspicious "Valenius is super town in my eyes, he's cleared for me" -- this is "justified" by the "play" "Pixelated is neutral or slightly scummy to me" -- this is also part of the "play" "Eden feels even more town for me" -- apparently this is for pushing Cavalinho and being a clear posted. I'd be pretty happy with Eden too if he was pushing an agenda that gets town lynched and I were mafia
BUT in the very next explanation of Cavalinho he doesn't even call Cava mafia "Cavalinho sounds...well, aggressive in all his posts"
We know that Cavalinho is town, which is probably why LT was so reluctant to build a real case against him. It's always important to leave yourself options when you're mafia so that you don't look scummy when you have to flip, in case all of town finds someone townie.
"Sqrt has thus far been fairly disconcerting to me" -- once again, he seems to want to call him scum, but is afraid to actually do it. Before Sqrt's claim (which, again, I forgot that I had read him blue), my thought this past night was the LT and sqrt are together based off of their d1 interactions.
Says some stuff at RJ but not about RJ. That was another possible connection I saw, but now RJ is dead.
So, pretty much, LT is unwilling to take any strong stance on anyone being mafia. This is 1000000000% a mafia characteristic. I will keep reading his posts, but yeah. Just laying it out for all of you kids so you can just sheep me to victory.
OK, Val, LT - One of you are town. Two of you are mafia. (assuming that Robik is town, which I'm willing to go with him till the end) One of you are making a mistake. Two of you are on the verge of victory. Reconsider. #Vote LordTolkien
On April 01 2014 17:03 Valenius wrote: As it stands now.
##Vote: sqrtofneg1
Sqrt, why did you try and save robik last night?
Because he seemed like the most logical kill, plus I couldn't save RJ cause I already saved him. I had OK as my night save for most of the time, and then I switched last hour because Robik has a town reputation, and because he hasn't tunneled me, and if mafia kill him, everyone would mislynch me the next day for an easy win.
Sorry. Work meetings and whatnot. Dafuq?!?! Who actually works at work zzzzzz.
LT analysis continued:
He finally takes a stance on two "top scum reads," Cava and sqrt, and leaves out valenius, the person he's using to "try to make a play"
After that he reveals his plan. Let's analyze this real quick
His first long post with reads comes at 6:13. His next post without valenius in his scum read is at 6:40 and then he admits to lying...sorry, to making the "play" at 7:31.
LT claims that he "Was trying to scumbait with it when questioning Cavalinho and sqrt." but that doesn't align with the timeline of events, because the only people who responded within the period between 6:13 and 7:31 are Eden and Pixalated. His "play" is just a blatant cover up of his lies.
On April 01 2014 17:03 Valenius wrote: As it stands now.
##Vote: sqrtofneg1
Sqrt, why did you try and save robik last night?
Because he seemed like the most logical kill, plus I couldn't save RJ cause I already saved him. I had OK as my night save for most of the time, and then I switched last hour because Robik has a town reputation, and because he hasn't tunneled me, and if mafia kill him, everyone would mislynch me the next day for an easy win.
It kinda sucks that you saved me. That means that mafia will just kill me tonight and then tomorrow they're going to shed doubt on why you're still alive or some bullshit. Cause once we kill LT today, I'll be confirmed town and they will be scared shitless (and rightfully so) that I'm going to figure out at f3 which of the other two are mafia.
Scenario 1) Mafia are Sqrt and Robik Scenario 2) Mafia are Sqrt and OnceKing Scenario 3) Mafia are Sqrt and Lord Tolkien
SQRT IS NOT LYING
Scenario 4) Mafia are OnceKing and Robik Scenario 5) Mafia are OnceKing and Tolkien Scenario 6) Mafia are Robik and Tolkien
Out of these, the one's i don't believe are possible are:
Scenario 3) With how hard Sqrt jumped on LT's Day 1 wtfscumhunting post, i don't see them being a pair. The following interactions too, just read the filters ~
Scenario 5) Again, interaction based but also the vote switch day 1 onto Cavalinho. They both switched within 6 minutes.. which i -personally- think they would have been avoiding if they were partners.
The others, rated in order of likelyness
Scenario 1) Mafia are Sqrt and Robik Scenario 2) Mafia are Sqrt and OnceKing Scenario 4) Mafia are OnceKing and Robik Scenario 6) Mafia are Robik and Tolkien
The sum of this, is that my two most likely scenario's involve Sqrt. I've felt he's scummy since day 1, barring any miraculous cases, he's my vote for today. It doesn't help that I feel his reasoning for his saves are terrible.
I'll post further thoughts on those 4 scenarios later tonight, need some food and football (soccer for you guys) first.
Nice, now you've changed me from your solid town read to "mafia must be OK + LT" even though just some hours ago you had Valenius + LT. Please just die and flip and stop trying to smokescreen for your scumbuddy, thanks
On April 02 2014 03:48 Lord Tolkien wrote: Ok yeah. NOW I definitely think Rovik is scum.
That analysis is holy s-.
GUYS. I CAUGHT ONE.
Explanation: Read the sentence "that analysis is holy shit." This sentence does not make logical sense. He could say "That analysis is shit" or "holy shit that analysis sucks", but the way it's phrased means that he was thinking of saying one thing and then wrote another thing and then adjusted it but forgot to fully adjust it. I don't know how to explain this concept to all of you, but trust me on this. Anytime a sentence sounds out of place and awkward it's because mafia had to revise it but then fucked up while revising it.
BOOMSHAKALAKA.
Oh, and he also just called it "holy shit" without actually substantiating why my argument is bad. He can't do that because he's mafia and he can't refute the case
On April 02 2014 05:47 Valenius wrote: OK or LT, do either of you want me to post further on those 4 scenarios?
I'm lazy and don't want to go through quoting. I just want to play diablo and go to bed. I'll put it up tomorrow evening if that's okay.
With the way you are addressing OK and LT, you've pretty much committed to me and sqrt being town. If you're town, that's really really fucking bad because I know I'm town and I"m pretty damn sure that sqrt is town to. He even said he's not fucking me.
On April 02 2014 05:47 Valenius wrote: OK or LT, do either of you want me to post further on those 4 scenarios?
I'm lazy and don't want to go through quoting. I just want to play diablo and go to bed. I'll put it up tomorrow evening if that's okay.
With the way you are addressing OK and LT, you've pretty much committed to me and sqrt being town. If you're town, that's really really fucking bad because I know I'm town and I"m pretty damn sure that sqrt is town to. He even said he's not fucking me.
On April 02 2014 05:47 Valenius wrote: OK or LT, do either of you want me to post further on those 4 scenarios?
I'm lazy and don't want to go through quoting. I just want to play diablo and go to bed. I'll put it up tomorrow evening if that's okay.
With the way you are addressing OK and LT, you've pretty much committed to me and sqrt being town. If you're town, that's really really fucking bad because I know I'm town and I"m pretty damn sure that sqrt is town to. He even said he's not fucking me.
No I don't feel the need for you to expand further on these scenarios. It's obvious from here that sqrt and Robik are a scum team trying to abuse an un-cced medic to try to take the win. All we need to do is lynch sqrt today and Robik tomorrow and we'll win for sure.
Here, I think I got it. Joke stage: LT votes OK because "my renewed ok scum sense is tingling". This is just to get a vote on the other mafia, so that if someone does a vote analysis, it looks better for them.
OK returns the favour later on.
On March 27 2014 06:27 OnceKing wrote: Yeah actually I agree. I'm not going to wait around for LT to keep dodging the question. ##VOTE: Lord Tolkien. Come make me move it.
On March 27 2014 03:21 OnceKing wrote: I need LT to respond to Eden's five points, then. I don't and won't presume to speak for him and my estimation that he made an honest mistake might be biased from LII. Valenius seems to have an idea, though. So Valenius, I'd like you to respond to Eden's points too, as well as give your thoughts on Cav/Eden!
Who is your partner and why is it Lord Tolkein?
You're my partner because you're Lord Tolkien!
This is strange.
Also, who were the 2 people who switched onto the Cav wagon last minute to get him lynched? It was OK and LT. They switched after the cop claim, to get a cop kill.
OK and LT scum team; that's the scum team that makes the most sense, and it's the scum team that only makes sense.
Lol way to take that quote out of context sqrt. Here is the original context -- he was messing around because I was prodding Valenius to have input on the LT case. And just me switching was enough to put the final nail in Cav's coffin, if LT were my scum partner there would be no reason for him to so conspicuously and wastefully move his vote.
You're scum and your wiggling is cute but there's no way you're getting out of the lynch this time even with your faux-medic claim.
Playing around is a perfect ruse for a vote that will hopefully get overlooked when it is cast, but so that it's something you can mention when you're on the spot.
I don't know where everyone is, but I don't see how we're ever going to win this game if you don't change your opinions on sqrt and me. Tell me what you need me to do to prove to you that I'm town and I"ll do it.
On April 02 2014 23:09 IAmRobik wrote: I don't know where everyone is, but I don't see how we're ever going to win this game if you don't change your opinions on sqrt and me. Tell me what you need me to do to prove to you that I'm town and I"ll do it.
Guess not. I'll just add another fucking tick to the loss column
If two of OnceKing/Tolkien/Robik are mafia then i'll hold my hands up and admit that i've completely read you wong, but there's pretty much no way im not lynching you now.
It's on anyone who voted wrong from the start, don't let it get you down. Just join the next game and win, ezpz. Most of all, it's a loss: In the long-run who cares?
On April 03 2014 02:45 Valenius wrote: It's on anyone who voted wrong from the start, don't let it get you down. Just join the next game and win, ezpz. Most of all, it's a loss: In the long-run who cares?
DAFUQ. Did you just admit that you know this is a mislynch?!?!?
On April 03 2014 02:45 Valenius wrote: It's on anyone who voted wrong from the start, don't let it get you down. Just join the next game and win, ezpz. Most of all, it's a loss: In the long-run who cares?
DAFUQ. Did you just admit that you know this is a mislynch?!?!?
On April 03 2014 02:45 Valenius wrote: It's on anyone who voted wrong from the start, don't let it get you down. Just join the next game and win, ezpz. Most of all, it's a loss: In the long-run who cares?
DAFUQ. Did you just admit that you know this is a mislynch?!?!?
No, stop clutching at straws.
I'm pretty sure that was the biggest fucking slip of all time. Val/LT final answer
On April 03 2014 02:45 Valenius wrote: It's on anyone who voted wrong from the start, don't let it get you down. Just join the next game and win, ezpz. Most of all, it's a loss: In the long-run who cares?
DAFUQ. Did you just admit that you know this is a mislynch?!?!?
No, stop clutching at straws.
I'm pretty sure that was the biggest fucking slip of all time. Val/LT final answer
Lol.
In last game's Obs QT, sqrt said he was probably just going to stick to irl mafia, and seemed hesitant to play this game. It was supposed to be a reassuring post, i don't want anyone feeling down after playing a game of this. More newbies playing is good.
Last game i played, i posted an apology to someone who i was 99% certain was mafia (n1k0) because i felt bad for going harder on him than planned. That's not my preferred playstyle.. although it can sometimes slip out.. like with RJ's post's day2.
Feel free to share your coaching QTs if you'd like. Totally up to you. Also ask your coach if they wouldn't mind giving you some post-game advice now that they can really share what they were thinking about their reads in the game. They aren't obligated to do so but I'm sure they wouldn't mind!
Congratulations to the scumteam! Thanks for playing, join the next newbie or other games and play more mafia! I'll have some post-game comments either later tonight or tomorrow for you guys!
On April 03 2014 07:03 Eden1892 wrote: C'mon guys Robik was obvious.
OnceKing I thought was kinda easy to see too but I can understand missing him.
GG scumteam thanks for shooting me N1 NOT
mad
let's keep it constructive, guys.
Eden was shot because he was doing a good job of having reads and leading town; he was a good shot. If you get shot n1 as a townie, it's typically because scum is afraid you'll catch them. Getting shot is a sign of respect.
On April 03 2014 07:03 Eden1892 wrote: C'mon guys Robik was obvious.
OnceKing I thought was kinda easy to see too but I can understand missing him.
GG scumteam thanks for shooting me N1 NOT
mad
let's keep it constructive, guys.
Eden was shot because he was doing a good job of having reads and leading town; he was a good shot. If you get shot n1 as a townie, it's typically because scum is afraid you'll catch them. Getting shot is a sign of respect.
Can confirm. Same goes for RJ. We thought that sqrt would end up being a mislynch, so even though I read him as blue at the beginning of d1, we decided to keep him alive and keep RB'ing him instead of NK'ing him.
On April 03 2014 07:03 Eden1892 wrote: C'mon guys Robik was obvious.
OnceKing I thought was kinda easy to see too but I can understand missing him.
GG scumteam thanks for shooting me N1 NOT
mad
let's keep it constructive, guys.
Eden was shot because he was doing a good job of having reads and leading town; he was a good shot. If you get shot n1 as a townie, it's typically because scum is afraid you'll catch them. Getting shot is a sign of respect.
na i ain't mad he's earned it after totally grotesquely abusing me 2 games str8 as scum
Yeah I'm messing around, Eden and I know each other irl so we've already talked about the game a bit lol Of course we shot him because he was the biggest threat to us, in the end although scum can do wifomy kills they still have to get rid of who's most likely to get them lynched.
On April 03 2014 07:03 Eden1892 wrote: C'mon guys Robik was obvious.
OnceKing I thought was kinda easy to see too but I can understand missing him.
GG scumteam thanks for shooting me N1 NOT
mad
let's keep it constructive, guys.
Eden was shot because he was doing a good job of having reads and leading town; he was a good shot. If you get shot n1 as a townie, it's typically because scum is afraid you'll catch them. Getting shot is a sign of respect.
Can confirm. Same goes for RJ. We thought that sqrt would end up being a mislynch, so even though I read him as blue at the beginning of d1, we decided to keep him alive and keep RB'ing him instead of NK'ing him.
imo this was the right move all the way, only thing I might consider mixing up was shooting RJ over me N1 but either way I think we were the clear nk choices
sqrt was def. medic so gj reading that and shutting him down
Yea Robik picked up on the fact that he kept talking about the doctor, once he pointed it out and I noticed it myself it became really obvious though if only because we're in a newbie.
We put a lot of comments in obs! Some of them were poopy but a lot of them were not.
I thought the game was really interesting to watch and I kind of regret not playing in it. That said, I can't imagine what sort of crazy d1 we would have had if I was present during a fight about Cavalinho following another player's reads :D
sqrt were you doing WIFOM when you talked a lot about being doctor? I felt for a large portion of the game you were mafia pretending to be doctor.
Robik you were scum because you didn't save the cop while being there and because you said something like "these two are my top scumreads but hey let's vote for this third guy who makes sense with both of them!"
That was the post i saw when i looked at something in thread.
Okay, Eden and I talked about this a lot and it's in the obs qt a bit too. Despite my alignment I really don't think lynching the cop claim was as godawful as it seemed given how late into the day I think it came.
You can always lynch a cop claim later. If he's really scum fakeclaiming that's fine, wait a couple days so the real cop has some checks. it's not like a scum fakeclaim can really last that long while pretending to be cop
On March 14 2014 05:45 Blazinghand wrote: clearly if Robik is ever alive D2 he is scum
Oh cmon...Give me 1 more day. If i'm alive d3 of any game, just insta-lynch me cause I'm obviously scum (or I'm wrong and deserve to get lynched....but no really, i'm always scum)
On April 03 2014 07:18 raynpelikoneet wrote: How the hell did the cop end up getting lynched on D1? Or like how did the town let it happen?
Eden's rationale from obs: "The issue with the cop claim is that I don't think scum have any reason to take care of him for town in this format. There's a 50% chance that there isn't a cop in the game at all and the guy is fakeclaiming and un-cc'd that way. For scum on the lynching block it's win-win to claim: either there is no cop (in which case you are un-cc'd and will probably be left alive) or the cop has to cc in order to seal the lynch (in which case you've significantly increased the return on your death). So it's literally just as likely as not that the guy is really the cop as it is that he's scum. That means the cop's results can't really be trusted, and consequently they can't add anything to the discussion, so the mafia have no reason to shoot him, all else being equal. The optimal play, according to that line of logic, is that you don't let the claim factor into your decision-making."
On April 03 2014 07:18 raynpelikoneet wrote: How the hell did the cop end up getting lynched on D1? Or like how did the town let it happen?
Eden's rationale from obs: "The issue with the cop claim is that I don't think scum have any reason to take care of him for town in this format. There's a 50% chance that there isn't a cop in the game at all and the guy is fakeclaiming and un-cc'd that way. For scum on the lynching block it's win-win to claim: either there is no cop (in which case you are un-cc'd and will probably be left alive) or the cop has to cc in order to seal the lynch (in which case you've significantly increased the return on your death). So it's literally just as likely as not that the guy is really the cop as it is that he's scum. That means the cop's results can't really be trusted, and consequently they can't add anything to the discussion, so the mafia have no reason to shoot him, all else being equal. The optimal play, according to that line of logic, is that you don't let the claim factor into your decision-making."
I think the Day 1 lynch was by far the worst. A cop claim on D1 should never get lynched. Let scum sort it out. D2 was understandable, and D3 as well other than the fact that Robik didn't flip his shit despite his candidate not getting lynched should ring some bells.
Actually I wanted to shoot you because I feared you the most out of players remaining and didn't think I could get you mislynched. The fact that you were present and aggressively pushing onto people made you an important priority for me. I still need to get better at blue hunting and setup speculation, but thanks for the encouragement!
It's not a cop, though. It's a parity cop. This is an important part of the decision process because a parity cop, more likely than not, isn't going to clarify the game state very well, especially if that parity cop's identity can never be verified. I read Cavalinho as scum -- falsely, yes, but I read him scum -- and enough people did to get a majority lynch on him out of the town (4/7). I simply do not believe that the claim "would have worked itself out" like everyone is saying, because Cavalinho's credibility was in question, and there's no data in the game that would allow the town to falsify his claim were he scum (barring something flukey like him giving a "same" result on two guys that flipped opposite alignments, or doctor claiming rb'd and then lynched w/no cop counterclaim, but pls). If he were a regular cop I'd have probably let Cavalinho live, but the parity cop as a role just isn't useful, so I felt no qualms about lynching my top scum read in that circumstance.
OK's biggest scum "tell" (not in the sense of a formal tell but what let me tell he was scum) was the awkward and quick backtrack off of Valenius on D...2? D3? Whichever day.
I wouldn't have caught him on merit alone though. I had a post later in the /obs QT about the LYLO pairings; the only way I'd have really caught OK was working with my scumread on Robik and townreads on sqrt and Valenius and then working backwards through the pairings (Robik is trying to get Tolkien lynched at LYLO over sqrt, so they're not partners, ergo Robik/OnceKing scumteam).
You're severely underestimating the impact a parity cop can have by D3. It's a huge gamble for scum to leave him alive for two days. It can be gamewinning if he gets a SAME on D3 with one scum lynched as you can just lynch the cop and the suspect. Scum is forced to shoot him if any scum die in the first two days. This is more than enough reason to leave him alive until later.
Maybe so (re: underestimating) -- I've only seen the role in play once, at the end of one of the other newbie games (53 I think? right before I signed up for this game). It kinda created a mess there since the cop got "OPPOSITE" results, meaning that everyone voted for the opposite guy in their single pairing and let the cop hammer. If you catch scum in the first 2 days then it's pretty powerful yeah.
But there's a high chance it's not especially useful (what if he gets an OPPOSITE result? or you don't catch scum before D3?), and it was virtually certain to be a distraction in D2 and beyond. (Say what y'all will, here and in the QT; I'm not convinced, especially given the ending here, that people would have successfully sat aside the cop discussion and looked around elsewhere.)
I'm not defending the lynch as right, obviously since Cavalinho WAS the cop it was wrong, but I'm not convinced this was nearly as open-and-shut as everyone is acting like it is.
On April 03 2014 07:53 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I think the Day 1 lynch was by far the worst. A cop claim on D1 should never get lynched. Let scum sort it out. D2 was understandable, and D3 as well other than the fact that Robik didn't flip his shit despite his candidate not getting lynched should ring some bells.
I was actually planning on flipping shit and trying to convince valenius to swap, but then I realized I'd rather mislynch a cop AND a medic...it just looks nicer on the stat sheet
On April 03 2014 07:53 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I think the Day 1 lynch was by far the worst. A cop claim on D1 should never get lynched. Let scum sort it out. D2 was understandable, and D3 as well other than the fact that Robik didn't flip his shit despite his candidate not getting lynched should ring some bells.
I was actually planning on flipping shit and trying to convince valenius to swap, but then I realized I'd rather mislynch a cop AND a medic...it just looks nicer on the stat sheet
Oh I can't argue with you there. You were really in no danger anytime during the game. You played the players well.
On April 03 2014 07:53 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I think the Day 1 lynch was by far the worst. A cop claim on D1 should never get lynched. Let scum sort it out. D2 was understandable, and D3 as well other than the fact that Robik didn't flip his shit despite his candidate not getting lynched should ring some bells.
I was actually planning on flipping shit and trying to convince valenius to swap, but then I realized I'd rather mislynch a cop AND a medic...it just looks nicer on the stat sheet
There was no way I was not voting sqrt today, and no way I was not going to vote you the day after. I got bored towards the end and had no energy to actually read anything, so tried to drop as many mini-scum tells as I could to entertain myself
On April 03 2014 07:53 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I think the Day 1 lynch was by far the worst. A cop claim on D1 should never get lynched. Let scum sort it out. D2 was understandable, and D3 as well other than the fact that Robik didn't flip his shit despite his candidate not getting lynched should ring some bells.
I was actually planning on flipping shit and trying to convince valenius to swap, but then I realized I'd rather mislynch a cop AND a medic...it just looks nicer on the stat sheet
There was no way I was not voting sqrt today, and no way I was not going to vote you the day after. I got bored towards the end and had no energy to actually read anything, so tried to drop as many mini-scum tells as I could to entertain myself
I think everyone was trying to claim scum at the end
I was VERY VERY close to saying "I am town.................APRIL FOOLS" on April fools day and just let OK try to win it on his own to try to make the game more interesting, but decided against it.
Also, if you read scum qt, I was very very close to claiming medic on n2 because I knew that sqrt would have to claim that day.
On April 03 2014 07:51 RolandJarvis wrote: I didn't read day 3 but I thought everybody town played fine or better
Except me.
No I definitely don't exclude you. I think you did enough to clear yourself. I'm not saying you made it easy, no.
If you read some of my second half of the game you'll see I am trying to figure you out. Unfortunately my musings were interrupted.
If I did get there it would be because you were just saying what you thought, and saying it with conviction. It didn't match what anybody else was saying. It didn't match what anybody wanted to hear. This is good in my book.
I really do have to apologize since I basically let town down D3. Pretty shitty of me, but I didn't have time to post due to REASONS. And nothing really influenced my reads away from sqrt (I apologize for focusing you since D1 lol) and Robik. Should I have focused Robik first? Perhaps, but I just felt more strongly about sqrt, who I really do feel shouldn't have (edit: been so scummy/scurred).
The only other thing I find believable is Val and OK, or Robik and OK, and that requires quite some WIFOM do to their day 1 moves.
I should have believed in the WIFOM, because the first Day 1 exchange was pretty damn ridic and I don't know why I wrote them off as being mafia together because of it initially. It should've been a telltale sign, and I really should have tried to question the sqrt lynch. If I had the time to sit down and REALLY scrutinized my own reads and other people's analysis, I feel I could've won this for town, but I didn't have/do either.
So ye, I feel like I really dropped the ball here HARD (and hypocrisy since my D2 was entirely devoted to trying to get people to fking post, Pixal pls wtf).
Lessons I've learned from this game: 1) How to approach blue role claims. AKA not lynch them. Huehuehue. Story of this game is "town decides to lynch ALL da blues". And more importantly, learn to discern blue from scum. This is my first mafia game since LII, so that should tell you how little I generally play mafia, and how much I need to improve on in general.
2) That I now apparently have a scummy town D1 meta. Lynch me next game if I appear town D1 gaiz (if I actually have time to play, mafia too exhausting and time-consuming).
3) Lend more weight to nightkills and their implications.
4) l really, REALLY should believe in the WIFOM. Especially something as obvious as that, but I really didn't believe that scum would be so forward Day 1 and be the center of attention.
D1: I just don't feel Cav put together an adequate defense and his posting pattern made me misread him (sorta again), and I felt a parity cop is less impactful and guaranteed than a cop, and a blue role with no impact should have no bearing on (edit: his lynch at the time. I mean there's not much else I could do because I was the other candidate [and I apparently can't vote myself], and no one was swapping onto sqrt at the time so...In hindsight, it would've been to lynch myself, or oneo f hte two blues. lulz, mafia played well this game).
And my view going into D3 is that there was a coinflip chance the RB claim and medic claim was bogus even without a counterclaim, and thus I chose to rely on my then-present reads, which was fk that, I'm pretty sure he's scummy. As was pointed out in obs QT, I should've noticed his consistent medic pattern, but hindsight 20/20 (and you gaiz got a mod confirm for him), or gone for my other scum read (Robik), even if only to check reactions.
On April 03 2014 08:25 IAmRobik wrote: I was VERY VERY close to saying "I am town.................APRIL FOOLS" on April fools day and just let OK try to win it on his own to try to make the game more interesting, but decided against it.
Also, if you read scum qt, I was very very close to claiming medic on n2 because I knew that sqrt would have to claim that day.
If you claimed medic on N2 you would've been dead because you didn't give sqrt's rb claim any attention. Balla told me you were planning on claiming to be rbed both nights
On April 03 2014 08:25 IAmRobik wrote: I was VERY VERY close to saying "I am town.................APRIL FOOLS" on April fools day and just let OK try to win it on his own to try to make the game more interesting, but decided against it.
Also, if you read scum qt, I was very very close to claiming medic on n2 because I knew that sqrt would have to claim that day.
If you claimed medic on N2 you would've been dead because you didn't give sqrt's rb claim any attention. Balla told me you were planning on claiming to be rbed both nights
It's not a bad play to try to out the medic. If he's mafia and says he was RB'd but I was actually RB'd, I don't think I would want to draw attention to that because it would make me seem like a PR, maybe? IDK. Maybe I'm crazy
Yeah...saying I was RB'd both nights would ahve been so funny. I wonder if people would ahve even noticed.
On April 03 2014 08:25 IAmRobik wrote: I was VERY VERY close to saying "I am town.................APRIL FOOLS" on April fools day and just let OK try to win it on his own to try to make the game more interesting, but decided against it.
Also, if you read scum qt, I was very very close to claiming medic on n2 because I knew that sqrt would have to claim that day.
If you claimed medic on N2 you would've been dead because you didn't give sqrt's rb claim any attention. Balla told me you were planning on claiming to be rbed both nights
If Robik had claimed N2 (and sqrt counterclaimed) I would probably have swapped my lynch focus right there because that would scream that sqrt/Robik aren't scum team, which leads me to my two other conclusions (and I was lending much more weight to Robik/OK through D3 than OK/Valenius). And since only one of them can possibly be medic, and the way my possible scum pairings were going at that stage...eh.
And make me notice that sqrt has been trying to feebly and awkwardly breadcrumb medic. That too. Mostly that, probably.
Additionally if possible end the mafia game turns like 10/11PM. If you did that I would have a much easier time posting towards the end of the day lol. 6PM pretty hard.
On April 03 2014 08:39 Lord Tolkien wrote: Additionally if possible end the mafia game turns like 10/11PM. If you did that I would have a much easier time posting towards the end of the day lol. 6PM pretty hard.
On April 03 2014 08:39 Lord Tolkien wrote: Additionally if possible end the mafia game turns like 10/11PM. If you did that I would have a much easier time posting towards the end of the day lol. 6PM pretty hard.
4/5am pretty hard for us euro's!
true. I'm free past 7PMs almost always as opposed to sometimes available before that and sometimes completely booked.
At the risk of the world revolving around me, I'm going to talk about my NK for a second.
I believe at the time of my death 0 town were clearing me, 1 was ready to murder me through the screen, 1 had upgraded me to mere dislike, and 1 didn't have much to say about me. Then I died. Who besides me was surprised by that?
What was the state of my reads? Well, I had LT and Valenius as lock clear. I had robik as lock scum. I said I would thunderdome him. I made cases. I said "if you (robik) are town the game is already over because I'm never not voting you". Consider the implications of that. If scum believe me (and why wouldn't they?), and if robik is town, all they have to do is kill somebody who isn't me or robik and they have a guaranteed victory. That's pretty attractive. There's no wifom there where they did it to setup robik, all they need is my vote on a town and they can snipe a win.
I take a very straightforward view of night kills, both making them and interpreting them. When I'm scum I kill the threats. I believe it's much better to argue with a corpse who can't vote than to have a live player harassing me. When I'm town and when there's a surprise night kill, I want to know the reason. Killing a player who is universally cleared might mean nothing. Killing a player who is on the suspect list --- I want to know what he was thinking. The nk is validating his reads.
On April 03 2014 08:36 OnceKing wrote: dammit Simon I guess last newbie we had Rick and... whoever else it was though so it all works out and yes D2 was undebatably the worst thing ever
The game felt a bit backwards to me in one respect. Day 1 was very dense. Lots of long, thoughtful posts. As the game went on, the posts got shorter and less reflective.
I think it's better to have a day 1 style with more pooh flinging monkeys. Then as the game goes on transition to longer, more reflective posts.
Interactions are hard to do well as scum. Lots of early interactions (by pooh flinging monkeys I mean quick attacks with little reason to them) early lays a nice foundation for later study.
But you can't play the whole game that way. In the end you got to study the thread.
I'm not sure though. It could be cultural differences and maybe I'm just biased by my past experience.
On April 03 2014 08:56 sqrtofneg1 wrote: irl mafia is sooooo different
i don't have much experience with either so do tell
My main comment to you would be to follow what I said previously in the thread, or in the TL General Guide to Mafia.
When you have a blue role, you should be posting as if you are a townie. The only difference is that you are more well-informed than other townies. ... As a general rule, normal townies should not attempt to direct blue roles or try to find out who is blue and who is not. Town power roles work better if the mafia are uncertain of what the blue roles will do.
You were trying to do neither, which just made me think you were scum and alerted mafia to you being blue.
I made the same mistake LII D1 sorta. My soft-vet claim was cray-cray.
just a few points of the current irl mafia meta where I live
no flips you talk too much = you're mafia mafia generally kill people who aren't talking cop claim D3 pretty much guaranteed doctor saves himself first 2 nights 90% of the time
Plus reads are flip flop depending on really little things, like repositioning your body after a night, who talked first after the night, who's sitting next to who, stuff like that
Simon is Eden He outed my name in obs qt, now I'm one-upping him by outing his on general forums :D I just thought you were pretty solidly town RJ, I guess I didn't consider it as much as I could have. Like I said I wanted to shoot you because I thought you were the person that I could least easily get lynched.
On April 03 2014 08:47 RolandJarvis wrote: At the risk of the world revolving around me, I'm going to talk about my NK for a second.
I believe at the time of my death 0 town were clearing me, 1 was ready to murder me through the screen, 1 had upgraded me to mere dislike, and 1 didn't have much to say about me. Then I died. Who besides me was surprised by that?
What was the state of my reads? Well, I had LT and Valenius as lock clear. I had robik as lock scum. I said I would thunderdome him. I made cases. I said "if you (robik) are town the game is already over because I'm never not voting you". Consider the implications of that. If scum believe me (and why wouldn't they?), and if robik is town, all they have to do is kill somebody who isn't me or robik and they have a guaranteed victory. That's pretty attractive. There's no wifom there where they did it to setup robik, all they need is my vote on a town and they can snipe a win.
I take a very straightforward view of night kills, both making them and interpreting them. When I'm scum I kill the threats. I believe it's much better to argue with a corpse who can't vote than to have a live player harassing me. When I'm town and when there's a surprise night kill, I want to know the reason. Killing a player who is universally cleared might mean nothing. Killing a player who is on the suspect list --- I want to know what he was thinking. The nk is validating his reads.
Not sure if you read the scum QT, but I had 0 influence on the night kills. I knew I was acting scummy and I didn't think I would be alive much longer, so OK took the reigns to do whatever he thought would make his like easier. I would have certainly left you alive and did thunderdome against you. I like challenges.
On April 03 2014 09:11 RolandJarvis wrote: If the doc can save the same person each night why doesn't the cop insta claim on day 1 and the poor mafia have to hope to luckbox the doc?
On April 03 2014 09:06 sqrtofneg1 wrote: just a few points of the current irl mafia meta where I live
no flips you talk too much = you're mafia mafia generally kill people who aren't talking cop claim D3 pretty much guaranteed doctor saves himself first 2 nights 90% of the time
Plus reads are flip flop depending on really little things, like repositioning your body after a night, who talked first after the night, who's sitting next to who, stuff like that
on tl forum mafia it's more like
always flips you talk too much = you're town mafia generally kill people who are right or people who don't look like they're going to be lynched cop is somewhat rare. doctor can't save himself.
On April 03 2014 08:29 Lord Tolkien wrote: I really do have to apologize since I basically let town down D3. Pretty shitty of me, but I didn't have time to post due to REASONS. And nothing really influenced my reads away from sqrt (I apologize for focusing you since D1 lol) and Robik. Should I have focused Robik first? Perhaps, but I just felt more strongly about sqrt, who I really do feel shouldn't have (edit: been so scummy/scurred).
The only other thing I find believable is Val and OK, or Robik and OK, and that requires quite some WIFOM do to their day 1 moves.
I should have believed in the WIFOM, because the first Day 1 exchange was pretty damn ridic and I don't know why I wrote them off as being mafia together because of it initially. It should've been a telltale sign, and I really should have tried to question the sqrt lynch. If I had the time to sit down and REALLY scrutinized my own reads and other people's analysis, I feel I could've won this for town, but I didn't have/do either.
So ye, I feel like I really dropped the ball here HARD (and hypocrisy since my D2 was entirely devoted to trying to get people to fking post, Pixal pls wtf).
Lessons I've learned from this game: 1) How to approach blue role claims. AKA not lynch them. Huehuehue. Story of this game is "town decides to lynch ALL da blues". And more importantly, learn to discern blue from scum. This is my first mafia game since LII, so that should tell you how little I generally play mafia, and how much I need to improve on in general.
2) That I now apparently have a scummy town D1 meta. Lynch me next game if I appear town D1 gaiz (if I actually have time to play, mafia too exhausting and time-consuming).
3) Lend more weight to nightkills and their implications.
4) l really, REALLY should believe in the WIFOM. Especially something as obvious as that, but I really didn't believe that scum would be so forward Day 1 and be the center of attention.
D1: I just don't feel Cav put together an adequate defense and his posting pattern made me misread him (sorta again), and I felt a parity cop is less impactful and guaranteed than a cop, and a blue role with no impact should have no bearing on (edit: his lynch at the time. I mean there's not much else I could do because I was the other candidate [and I apparently can't vote myself], and no one was swapping onto sqrt at the time so...In hindsight, it would've been to lynch myself, or oneo f hte two blues. lulz, mafia played well this game).
And my view going into D3 is that there was a coinflip chance the RB claim and medic claim was bogus even without a counterclaim, and thus I chose to rely on my then-present reads, which was fk that, I'm pretty sure he's scummy. As was pointed out in obs QT, I should've noticed his consistent medic pattern, but hindsight 20/20 (and you gaiz got a mod confirm for him), or gone for my other scum read (Robik), even if only to check reactions.
Also,
Howard.
Dude. You voted me because I claimed and because it would take too long to prove. Shut up.
On April 03 2014 09:11 RolandJarvis wrote: If the doc can save the same person each night why doesn't the cop insta claim on day 1 and the poor mafia have to hope to luckbox the doc?
town doesn't believe cop claim day 1
Plus the fact that there's always either no doc or there's a roleblocker in the setup.
Some post game thoughts, pretty simplified since I'm lazy.
Eden: gg, you got shot n1, you were doing okay. It seems clear that you know your way around forum mafia and what you need is experience on this site, I enjoyed our few short hours together. Sorry I wasn't more active as a coach d1.
RJarv: I don't feel like we communicated at all. You posted a list of town goals "1. promote an atmosphere where everybody talks and gets listened to. 2. Get lots of players to take lots of stands on lots of other players. Avoiding a single topic dominating discussion. 3. Keep the lynch in doubt until the last minute. 4. Lynch a mafia." I think you need to rethink number three in a big way, because forum mafia has intermittent activity it is important to start shoring up the lynch 12-24 hours before day end. With people being inactive at many times it is important to get your interactions into the thread early and push your ideas early. You seemed like someone with experience but you need to take some time to adjust to this particular forum. Similar to Eden above though I feel like you were less interested in talking with me than he was. Your 70 hour vanishing act was bad. Real bad. You need to not do that, it really hurt town that d2 was such a waste. Even with the pix lynch all shored up (which was a fine lynch) you should have done something to find scum besides pix.
Squirt: You were interesting for me to coach, you were less willing to listen to me than other people have been in the past. I urge you think about your reads more. You had a lot of fucks to give and that is great, you just didn't apply a lot of reasons to your reads. Your heuristics were weak and you wouldn't reevaluate them. You need to get it together and remember that your reads are based on the whole game and not just what has happened in the last five minutes, you have a very irl based game which you need to get away from. You need to realize that forum mafia is very different than irl mafia. Think about soccer, did you ever play pick up games or parks and rec games? Yeah? Well have you ever played FIFA World Cup (the video game)? Think about how the rules are the same but the skill sets simply don't transfer, the way you are playing now is like if David Beckham showed up to WCG and was like "don't worry guys, I know what I'm doing" use your understanding or irl mafia to give yourself a leg up in forum mafia but keep in mind that two two games are not the same and that different skill sets apply to both.
I'm happy to help any of you three, or anyone else, in the future. I'm pretty much full time coaching/zero time playing these days so always feel free to PM me. I love being able to stay a part of this community, no matter in how small a way.
On April 04 2014 05:33 Promethelax wrote: Squirt: You were interesting for me to coach, you were less willing to listen to me than other people have been in the past. I urge you think about your reads more. You had a lot of fucks to give and that is great, you just didn't apply a lot of reasons to your reads. Your heuristics were weak and you wouldn't reevaluate them. You need to get it together and remember that your reads are based on the whole game and not just what has happened in the last five minutes, you have a very irl based game which you need to get away from. You need to realize that forum mafia is very different than irl mafia. Think about soccer, did you ever play pick up games or parks and rec games? Yeah? Well have you ever played FIFA World Cup (the video game)? Think about how the rules are the same but the skill sets simply don't transfer, the way you are playing now is like if David Beckham showed up to WCG and was like "don't worry guys, I know what I'm doing" use your understanding or irl mafia to give yourself a leg up in forum mafia but keep in mind that two two games are not the same and that different skill sets apply to both.
First off, I prefer sqrt.
I really appreciate the fact that you coached me, and I accept the fact that forum mafia is absolutely different than irl mafia. I'm not sure if you have had to have the transition, but I'm sure there's at least one person in this forum that has, and that person should be able to tell you how big of a transition it is. Like you said, if David Beckham showed up to WCG and was like "don't worry guys, I know what I'm doing", that would mean trouble. But I've never expressed that I knew what I was doing. You have to cut me some slack. Isn't it natural to attempt to use what you have, even if it's not specifically suited to the thing? For example, skills from an fps such as TF2 won't directly transfer over to COD, but you have to try to use what you have, and then see what's wrong, what's right, what's working, what's not. This was my second game, and to say that "You need to get it together and remember that your reads are based on the whole game and not just what has happened in the last five minutes" is unfair in my opinion.
On April 04 2014 05:33 Promethelax wrote: Squirt: You were interesting for me to coach, you were less willing to listen to me than other people have been in the past. I urge you think about your reads more. You had a lot of fucks to give and that is great, you just didn't apply a lot of reasons to your reads. Your heuristics were weak and you wouldn't reevaluate them. You need to get it together and remember that your reads are based on the whole game and not just what has happened in the last five minutes, you have a very irl based game which you need to get away from. You need to realize that forum mafia is very different than irl mafia. Think about soccer, did you ever play pick up games or parks and rec games? Yeah? Well have you ever played FIFA World Cup (the video game)? Think about how the rules are the same but the skill sets simply don't transfer, the way you are playing now is like if David Beckham showed up to WCG and was like "don't worry guys, I know what I'm doing" use your understanding or irl mafia to give yourself a leg up in forum mafia but keep in mind that two two games are not the same and that different skill sets apply to both.
First off, I prefer sqrt.
I really appreciate the fact that you coached me, and I accept the fact that forum mafia is absolutely different than irl mafia. I'm not sure if you have had to have the transition, but I'm sure there's at least one person in this forum that has, and that person should be able to tell you how big of a transition it is. Like you said, if David Beckham showed up to WCG and was like "don't worry guys, I know what I'm doing", that would mean trouble. But I've never expressed that I knew what I was doing. You have to cut me some slack. Isn't it natural to attempt to use what you have, even if it's not specifically suited to the thing? For example, skills from an fps such as TF2 won't directly transfer over to COD, but you have to try to use what you have, and then see what's wrong, what's right, what's working, what's not. This was my second game, and to say that "You need to get it together and remember that your reads are based on the whole game and not just what has happened in the last five minutes" is unfair in my opinion.
Sqrt: Trust me, everyone understands what it's like to transition to forum mafia. Some do it quicker, some start out better, but I don't know a single person who didn't have some growing pains. Hell I've been playing forum mafia for a while and I still have trouble adjusting between mindsets between the various games I play and that's not including when I do stupid shit. Prome coaches a decent amount and has done so for a while; every now and again I hit him up to get him to help me think through thought processes for games I'm obsing/dead in. He's a very good coach and a very good guy. If he says you should think about X or Y, it is not in anyway to belittle you. It's specifically to help you improve. I think it was him who told me that I "should crank my investment level in games down from 11 to 6 or 7" because I lose my ability to think clearly/act rationally when I'm so invested. I didn't like hearing that I need to be better at controlling emotions but I needed to, I still need to. It's not fun; it's hard but trust me, we're all rooting for you to get fully transferred and integrated into being as good or better a forum player as you are an irl player.
hi guys nice game (for scum). lol at blue lynches. Feedback on the spreadsheet is appreciated. I cba to post polls and shit though.
Also Balla, dunno if it matters but the obs qt and stuff got a little fucked up in the "General" tab (since the General tab was not updated when you changed versions). You can fix it manually and add the obs/scum qt manually if you want
On April 06 2014 06:38 gonzaw wrote: hi guys nice game (for scum). lol at blue lynches. Feedback on the spreadsheet is appreciated. I cba to post polls and shit though.
Also Balla, dunno if it matters but the obs qt and stuff got a little fucked up in the "General" tab (since the General tab was not updated when you changed versions). You can fix it manually and add the obs/scum qt manually if you want
I didn't use it at all. Not sure I ever will. I'm sure you worked hard on it and whatnot, but I just don't see the point of it. If you could explain how it would help me play the game, maybe I would be more inclined to use it.
EDIT: I may have asked yo uthis already, but I'm drunk, so I'm just ognna go ahead and ask again.
1)History of Past Games: When going through previous games to check info about them (for example if someone was scum, when someone died, which faction won, what roles it had, links to the QTs, etc), you just go to the spreadsheet and find all the info condensed, and you are 100% guaranteed to find the information there (while you are not guaranteed to get information in the game's OP for instance, and it's more easy than just going page by page searching for posts by the hosts in the thread) 2)Information about CURRENT game: As a player, you can like...check stuff about the game. Who got lynched on D2? Which players voted for him? What was the votecount 10 minutes before deadline before the lynch swung to that guy? Did someone die in the middle of D3 by a day vig shot? Who did scum kill on N1? You can get the answers to all these questions. Of course, you need to ask yourself these questions in the first place. If you don't, then the spreadsheet won't be much good for you yeah 3)Current votecount: The votcount is automatic, and changes with every single vote the host/cohost registers. In the real game, the host posts the votecount every certain X amount of time. But if too many votes occur there, the host won't pollute the game thread with votecounts. Yet, in the spreadsheet, you can see all these votes affect the votecount automatically. 4)Find out when the deadline is: Dunno about you, but I always have trouble figuring out if there is 1 or 2 hours before deadline, or if it was at another time, or whatever. You get that shit here as well.
Basically, it replaces the thread's OP as the "entry point" for any kind of info you want. Do you want to read D3 to see what a confirmed dead scum said? Well, right now you go to the OP, and hope the host updated it with the link to the D3 post. If he didn't, you have to filter the host until you find the D3 post. Oh wait, where is it? You can't find the D3 post? Then it must mean that the host was not available, and one of the 1000 cohosts was the one that made the D3 post. So now you have to find out who are the cohosts, get their filter (this is not as easy as filtering the host), and search the filters of every one of them. After 10 minutes, you find the link to the D3 post. You can do this in 10 seconds with the spreadsheet.