TL Mafia LXXI: Gaiden
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On June 20 2015 00:44 MoosyDoosy wrote: If you think I'm Mafia in this game when I'm townie I will haunt you to your death. Sorry moosy I'll make it up to you this game <3 | ||
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On June 20 2015 03:14 Blazinghand wrote: Seems to be working for me, it takes me here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/272547-tl-mafia-model-op?page=4#78 does that link work for you? can you try again? is the rules link broken for anyone else? I opened it on my iPhone, probably why. | ||
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On July 01 2015 06:30 MoosyDoosy wrote: /out Sorry folks :/ Work is piling up faster than my salt about Life. Nooooooooooooooooooo. I can't live without you moosy Q.Q. All my newbie friends 1 by 1 dropped out *sigh* | ||
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Scott and oats, I've got your backs! | ||
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I want to see you in your full glory! | ||
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On July 06 2015 07:34 LightningStrike wrote: That is a terrible role to claim Day 1 I don't even know what the hell is going on...... I'm sure you know all about that | ||
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On July 06 2015 07:20 Trfel wrote: Hi. I need to go take a sauna now. Raynpelikoneet would approve, I assume I'll probably be mostly active in the evenings, lately I've been busier during the day. So if you scumread me for lack of activity or lack of active discussion, you'll be wrong. Anyway, this should be a fun (if spammy) game. And an easy win. Scum, you don't have a chance. Nice meta Trfel. Keeping it consistent. #Mafia | ||
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I love you LS <3 | ||
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Geript for mayor \o/ | ||
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##vote trfel | ||
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Haha I'll be thoroughly entertained to see you try getting him lynched | ||
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On July 06 2015 08:02 Damdred wrote: Don't be bad meta is excellent especially with someone you know very well. Io think I've called ls alignment the past 9 games 100%. This early it's an excellent tool ls is acting scum,and had to be prompted to do his normal thing. I'm pretty sure he rolled,scum On July 06 2015 08:03 scott31337 wrote: You need to let it go... Meta can be an amazing tool and on Day 1 with out votes it's quite helpful... Just like voting for BM since he rolls scum 80%+ y so serious? I love meta. #meta #meta #meta. | ||
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On July 06 2015 08:11 geript wrote: I'm bussing all my partners to try and get them to concede on D1 before I have to fight with BH to let me NK one of my partners so I can claim that I vigi shot them. The plays are real. | ||
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#BatTraps. | ||
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On July 06 2015 08:13 geript wrote: I dare you to say battraps again and think you won't be lynched for it. As long as you don't start posting asses we have a deal. | ||
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On July 06 2015 08:14 LightningStrike wrote: Fight me I not scum(Seriously though it kinda hard to tell the difference early on but later it's easier to tell the difference from what I had looked). If anyone want all his games here they are and correct he rolled town 50% of the time and scum 50% of the time: Town: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/483492-newbie-student-mafia-ix?user=scott31337 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/486008-holy-guardians-chapter-1?user=scott31337 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/486978-newbie-student-mafia-xi?user=scott31337 Scum: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/474146-newbie-mini-mafia-lx?user=scott31337 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/483087-newbie-student-mafia-viii?user=Scott31337 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/485267-newbie-student-mafia-x?user=scott31337 From what I can tell it's easier to read him later than earlier(Also quick note on the first game I linked he replaced in the night before) What are you trying to say here?... | ||
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On July 06 2015 08:22 Breshke wrote: @clarity Hf could have easily thought of the investigator joke pre game I think it's not alignment indicative Also hi all Hi breshke. Nice to meet you | ||
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On July 06 2015 08:23 rsoultin wrote: -squints at- lol you do realize how little sense this actually makes, right? Keep going, I want to see where this leads. | ||
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On July 06 2015 08:24 Clarity_nl wrote: You're replying a lot to me rsoultin but saying very little. I think it makes sense. If HF and me are both scum, I feel we would basically never have that interaction a few minutes into day 1. Do you disagree? Mmmm, seems like this was clearly pre-planned #scumlean. | ||
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On July 06 2015 08:28 Clarity_nl wrote: OK I want to move past this as it's not really worth spending a lot of time on. If me and HF both roll scum, and HF enters the game going "Lol I thought I rolled cop but it's just the VT flavor" do you think I, as scum, would call my scum partner "totes town not lynching today"? What do you think of rsoultin? Specifically the way she's replied to me. I think it makes perfect sense to question your statements. | ||
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On July 06 2015 08:28 Clarity_nl wrote: OK I want to move past this as it's not really worth spending a lot of time on. If me and HF both roll scum, and HF enters the game going "Lol I thought I rolled cop but it's just the VT flavor" do you think I, as scum, would call my scum partner "totes town not lynching today"? What do you think of rsoultin? Specifically the way she's replied to me. If i was mafia etc etc, sounds like you actually thought about this beforehand. I'm changing my top scumread. ##Vote clarity. | ||
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++townlean. | ||
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On July 06 2015 08:41 ritoky wrote: hi, i am town. i will be back when relevant information is being posted. bye. ROFL. | ||
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On July 06 2015 08:48 Damdred wrote: No but I read into it the statement is wave better or s um etc and it seemed like you were more pleased(?) With him than thinking he was scum. Its a meta thing on rs. Its difficult to explain I can try a bit more in detail but it a basically that and I'd rather not town case this early if at all. Now if only rot would post more. Damdy, did you spray yourself with town deo today? You smell really good. | ||
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On July 06 2015 08:38 geript wrote: @HF who are your townreads. Oh and btw Wubby is 100% town. I wanna know this too. HF do you reciprocate the love from Clarity? | ||
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On July 06 2015 08:41 ritoky wrote: hi, i am town. i will be back when relevant information is being posted. bye. I don't like this post. Too forced for me. #scumlean. | ||
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On July 06 2015 09:19 Clarity_nl wrote: Don't know what to tell you other than that wasn't my intention. I was pointing out that either WoS sees something the others don't or WoS has other information. I agree that this explanation makes sense. | ||
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What do you think about Clarity not wanting to lynch you? On July 06 2015 08:33 Clarity_nl wrote: That's fine, just don't lynch HF or myself today and reevaluate tomorrow. Moving on. WoS gave me a townread for being tryhard, whereas there's 3 people somewhat leaning towards me or whatever. So is WoS just better than you guys, or is he scum? | ||
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On July 06 2015 09:29 Holyflare wrote: bla bla chess On July 06 2015 09:25 ruXxar wrote: @HF. What do you think about Clarity not wanting to lynch you? | ||
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On July 06 2015 09:32 Holyflare wrote: it doesn't bother me and i'm undecided about clarity because his question on wave is what i thought looking at wave's post hence why he's half mafia and half town time will tell Oki thanks | ||
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I like where you're going so far. You're showing determination in your play. That's what I wanna see from you. Is there a difference between your mafia scum reads, or is everyone you call mafia equally mafia? | ||
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I don't want to lynch you for bad reasons. | ||
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On July 06 2015 12:06 Oatsmaster wrote: You bothered to link a video after I didnt even explain why I thought you were mafia. rux mafia. You forgot to answer my question silly. Also you didn't quote my scum post q.q | ||
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I think I have a tendency for mis lynching you due to how you play. No offense meant. Np, go on about your business. | ||
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On July 06 2015 12:08 ruXxar wrote: You forgot to answer my question silly. Also you didn't quote my scum post q.q Oats plz I want your attention. | ||
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On July 06 2015 12:07 milo109 wrote: I hate townreads like this. If he was mafia, you're telling him by continuing to be determined, you will read him town. Silly for town to do. If you saw our game together you would understand. | ||
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On July 06 2015 12:16 Oatsmaster wrote: everyone is equally mafia. you are mafia for saying a shit townread like that wtf, I post 5 posts with "name mafia" and you think im town??!?? Zzz I said I like where you are going. | ||
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I like your approach of coming out early and giving out reads with a quote for context. It's a pretty big step up for you compared to our last game where you threw out names with nothing at all. | ||
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On July 06 2015 12:35 geript wrote: lynch the fuck out of oats. he's definitely not town. Geript I wanna be a better player. What is the sure fire tell that oats is mafia? | ||
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On July 06 2015 12:40 WaveofShadow wrote: What has been said about clarity? The way that he hard defended holy fire and then used "but a mafia wouldn't do this" to excuse his actions. I think that sounds pre-planned. I got a scum vibe off that. | ||
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On July 06 2015 12:40 LightningStrike wrote: ^ Yet Oats got lynched that game lol.(I ranted about it on TS) Ya exactly, thing is that I know how oats plays now, so I have a baseline to compare him to. I didn't that game and thought he was scummy as duck. | ||
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On July 06 2015 12:50 WaveofShadow wrote: 'Pre planned' is dumb Nobody actually does that It's kinda like avoiding the topic though. If someone asks you why you said something and your response is "I wouldn't say that as mafia", then that seems more like a last line of defense rather than explaining why you actually said something. | ||
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Off topic + forced / artificial posting, bleh. Bad taste in my mouth. It's not looking good for you buddy. | ||
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On July 06 2015 21:24 boxerfred wrote: 45 pages of close to nothing Are you sure you didn't want to turn that smiley upside down? | ||
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On July 06 2015 21:24 KelsierSC wrote: rsoultin xP per page average is high if you use the super scientific method of ctrl+f , xP on her filter for the past few games it does show that as mafia she does it more himalayas 217 - 34 pages avg 6.38 hajime 164 - 29 pages avg 5.65 carnaval 213 - 28 pages avg 7.607 gaiden 40 - 4 pages avg 10 I agree there's way too many xP's. Seems forced too like if it's there to appear non threatening I.e "I'm only soft pushing this point lel xP, don't scum read me plox". | ||
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On July 06 2015 21:33 KelsierSC wrote: xP per page with more games himalayas 46 - 34 pages avg 1.35 hajime 47 - 29 pages avg 1.62 carnaval 65 - 28 pages avg 2.32 assasin 0 - 7 pages avg 0 newbie student 58 - 23 pages avg 2.52 gaiden 11 - 4 pages avg 2.75 That seems pretty damn consistent. | ||
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Scum: Trfel Clarity. Town: Damdred, Kelsier, | ||
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Something about him seems... Off. | ||
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On July 06 2015 21:45 marvellosity wrote: you missed ritoky You're right I hated his "I'm town, bye post". He's on my watch list. | ||
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On July 06 2015 21:42 KelsierSC wrote: no it's just using entire game averages as a means of determining alignment 4 pages into the game doesn't make much sense. start of the day is typically more relaxed and people messing around so i'd need to compare the first 4 pages of the games rather than the whole game length if that makes sense. Mm, but besides that, I don't like people that spam smileys in every single post, it's awkward and forced. It's a girl though, so maybe that explains it. | ||
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So tell me exactly why you are voting for rsoul here. You first made a meta post, then you said the meta post is fucking dumb. | ||
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On July 06 2015 22:01 LightningStrike wrote: Well mainly it's his filter size from wha I had looked at those games hence why I was hestitant about giving a very quick read on him(Although I giving him a slight townlean for now it feels like people want me to be automatic about my meta stuff and I trying to break that habit a bit because it gets me in trouble with others). Anyways I going to read the thread and will answer stuff as I read. I love you for saying this LS. | ||
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++town lean. | ||
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On July 06 2015 22:09 Palmar wrote: Glorious leader, you are clearly best player so you get my vote today. I only live to serve my people. | ||
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On July 06 2015 22:57 boxerfred wrote: Okay i hardclaim cop ROFL | ||
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No need for shenanigans here. | ||
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On July 06 2015 23:02 rsoultin wrote: I'm done with this marv. I said hf prob scum and i'm retracting HARD giantess on Kels.. Tired of repeating myself, not do I have the time for it. Obv if he's scum that push is too stupid to.achieve anything anyway so why WOULD he hold onto.org? i'm really flustered by how you're responding to the pressure put on you. Not a good sign. | ||
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Are you saying this is mafia indicative??? | ||
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On July 06 2015 23:11 rsoultin wrote: 'Lol ruxx/hf prob scum Get rekt To the rest of y'all...learn to read Pls, you're starting to sound like onegu. | ||
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Nice answer. | ||
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On July 06 2015 23:16 marvellosity wrote: *whispers to ruXxar* he's not I don't think kelsier is scum. I think it's weird how oats points out stuff and when i question him about it he responds with "lol". Why did you point out that it was over the top if you didn't think it was alignment indicative? | ||
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On July 06 2015 23:20 rsoultin wrote: Said I would later stop being shot. White noise indeed lol School I realize i'm not direct enough marv. What you fail to realize is that there are a good many ppl who understand me petfectly. After ippo you'd think it would click why I treat certain ppl differently when they can't get simple things like when I say i'm retracting a hard townread it's not the same as calling lack scum. It means geript is lonely in my top townreads slot Explain why you think I'm scum, I'm curious. | ||
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On July 06 2015 23:27 rsoultin wrote: Soft push plus i'm "flustering" you? Lol cute ruxx Not your first awkwardly worded post, either Yeah you were obviously failing to answer the questions in a clear manner, when it should be pretty simple to make yourself understood. Also I wasn't the only one to point that out, so why pick me over all these other people hmm? | ||
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On July 06 2015 23:31 Oatsmaster wrote: Do you think that people who refer to themselves in 3rd person are weird? Not in the context presented. In general, yes. My point is: Why do you point it out if you don't think it's alignment indicative? | ||
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On July 06 2015 23:36 boxerfred wrote: Yep sorry, just contributing from mobile in the Bus, throwing out ideas. Yeah and im no cop. | ||
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On July 06 2015 23:36 Oatsmaster wrote: Because hes weird. Im not sure where you are going with this, people post fluff all the time. I was wondering if you thought it was alignment indicative since you pointed it out, and I'm not getting a clear answer from you. | ||
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On July 06 2015 23:38 Oatsmaster wrote: its obviously not alignment indicative. Like. Come on man. Thanks, only took you 3 posts to answer my question. | ||
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I can't put together the two words "Oatsmaster" and "Obvious". Sorry, does not compute. | ||
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On July 06 2015 23:46 Holyflare wrote: Zzzzzz i can't rationalise a town rsoul repeatedly defending someone who normally plays early in the game and has reads but instead is just spamming the thread instead. Then her 2 scummiest people are me and kelsier??? Also, yeh, ritoky's reads were bad and very odd. *you and me. | ||
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+1. | ||
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On July 07 2015 00:03 geript wrote: Ten pages and more people dumbly think oats is town. Fun. I don't believe in magic. | ||
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Bullshit. Scum are the least likely to slip anything zzz. | ||
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Oats, you better start making sense soon, cause this is stupid. | ||
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I don't want LS to claim blue for dumb reasons. On July 07 2015 02:49 rsoultin wrote: why does something i'm writing that has nothing to do with him fluster him? It's confusing me how you're unable to answer such an easy question in a clear and concise manner. Don't like that at all. | ||
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On July 07 2015 03:28 Trfel wrote: That's not the reason for my scumread. And I'm not going to tell you my scumread now, because you are not getting lynched today, and I want to see if you keep doing the thing I'm scumreading you for. Give me some reads trfel. I don't want to wait until EoD for every list again :/ | ||
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On July 07 2015 03:31 Clarity_nl wrote: I know it's dumb and I hate rewarding the "fuck you I'm not getting lynched you get no info from me" but I think this post makes him a bit more likely to be town. I feel he'll show his colours in time ?? He's saying HF won't get lynched, not that he himself won't get lynched. | ||
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On July 07 2015 03:37 Half the Sky wrote: So are you (ruxxar) saying this would make LS town/mafia if he does? What do you think of LS now, if anything? 1) It would mean he's town. 2) I think LS is towny, he's showing intent/effort to change his play instead of just imitating his town meta and get away with looking towny. | ||
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On July 07 2015 03:51 Trfel wrote: This is a really bad read. He's playing differently from his town meta. This doesn't mean that he is town, because LightningStrike isn't all that good at imitating his town meta as scum. No one can completely match their town meta as scum... For someone being so heavily invested in meta, I would expect LS to be one of the best at imitating his town meta if he wanted to. | ||
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On July 07 2015 03:54 Half the Sky wrote: Well I look at that and the question I had here is how he'd know that effort to change his play ISN'T mafia, if a player knows he's getting caught out as mafia (and to an extent LS has) he should be even more inclined to change his play altogether if he rolls scum again. Let's try this differently - this is for ruxxar - what independently of meta (namely are there any quotes/pages/citations from this game) that makes you think he's town. You've played two games total and only one with LS (he didn't play NSM11 I don't think), therefore it is reasonable to assume you cannot reliably meta LS. You're right I don't have a good meta-read on LS. I'm not trying to meta him. This is what made me like him: | ||
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On July 06 2015 15:28 ritoky wrote: milo, ls, ruxxar....1 of these is mafia. more to come later. It's later now. | ||
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On July 07 2015 04:10 Harkon wrote: No, it is not. He either plays and is towny or he dies. This is not a pure pressure vote. Harkon who is your top scumread? | ||
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On July 07 2015 04:13 Half the Sky wrote: Oh dear that quote.... Admittedly LS's sentence is very tenuous but if I'm understanding it correctly, I think I know why he's saying that the way he is. But I've had a great deal of exposure to LS, so I know where that comes from. But you have only played twice with him. Why do you think he's town especially for the bolded? Why would/should any townie care whether a typically townie meta/method/approach would land him in trouble? Because I was the one of the main people harping on him to not use meta-reads in the last game. The fact that LS is willing to risk stepping out of his shell and willing to change his play without being scared of getting scumread is a towntrait from my POV of LS. It's my personality read of LS. | ||
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@Harkon, Is ritoky your top scumread? If not, who is? | ||
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On July 07 2015 04:35 Harkon wrote: Why did you claim without trying anything else first? Pretty much this. You're giving 0 efforts in trying to help your town win by giving up and making your role useless. Either you're fake claiming as VT, or you're fake claiming as mafia. Doubt you're cop. | ||
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On July 06 2015 15:28 ritoky wrote: milo, ls, ruxxar....1 of these is mafia. more to come later. I don't want to lynch ritoky today. If he's a town or pr, then I don't mind as the pr is so weak that mafia wasting powers on him is a good thing. Also if the mafia NK's a question mark for us that's a good thing anyway, he probably isn't going to get off any checks. If he lives until tomorrow then we can re-evaluate. We prolly have other pr's so I think the ritoky case will solve itself. Ritoky aside there's other scummy targets to lynch. | ||
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Why? | ||
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I think it's more indicative of a town newbie(I know I did this is in my newbie game). Mafia have no need to relay blue reads to the thread, unless they're fishing for reactions(possible). | ||
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Like he actually planned to do it all along. Just stop, please. | ||
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On July 07 2015 07:31 rsoultin wrote: parrotstrike xP oh noooooeees i posted another xP oh wait there's another xP o.0 the xPs are just multiplying! xP xP xP xP xP ahem actually i misremembered lol >< i thought it was milo who actually called oats' case good disregard still, milo boring; could lynch lol >< i dunnae that i want to lynch scott even though he was the one i was referring to above...i remember liking some of his posting :/ (plus um, the lack of sense thing i've seen from him before in obs xP) YET ANOTHER xP! This post is really weird, what are you trying to achieve here? | ||
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You come in out of nowhere and you're still stuck on the "xP"? That ship sailed long ago. Don't know why you even bring that up anymore. I really dislike this post. So much noise I can't even take the message you're trying to convey here seriously. | ||
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Willing to give clarity some more time. Top 2 scum atm: Trfel Rsoultin ##Vote Trfel | ||
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On July 07 2015 07:51 rsoultin wrote: okay let me explain this for those of y'all who don't speak rsoul scott was the one who thought oats' case of "more xPs" in this game than my last town game was soooo amazing. which is just ridiculous given there was bound to be more or less of them regardless, he picked only two games, and kels already debunked that...and the post was AFTER kels went on his stats finding expedition from milo who has posted a grand total of jack-all i'd care more i realized it was scott though so eh now go bark up a different tree, pup I don't see it. Your post had no context, it literally came out of nowhere, replied to no one and the content was trash and outdated. You're staying firm in my inner circle of scum for now. | ||
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It's not hard to put 2 and 2 together. | ||
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On July 07 2015 08:16 Half the Sky wrote: Well I hate guessing but if I had to guess you are suggesting that HF and Clarity are mafia together? If you are, why? No... try again. | ||
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With the way this game has 1-shot, 2-shot etc, I don't think being un-CC'ed means much at all. | ||
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On July 07 2015 09:26 Holyflare wrote: I've played like 2 games with trfel and both times i've been mafia. He never played this poorly ever. I even complimented him when I was mafia in a newbie game because he thought he played badly and he was playing well. This is below trash tier and I have much more respect for him than this. Pretty much my thoughts as well, I don't recognize Trfel at all. And I don't even know what Rsoul is doing, fucking deflection to the max. Am I the only one seeing HF making sense here? Jesus christ, the man just wanted an answer. | ||
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Is something wrong with you? Did something traumatic happen in your life? You played like a fucking god in our newbie game. What changed? | ||
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On July 07 2015 09:55 Trfel wrote: My play in this game is different from my play last game. I was scum last game. It's your responsibility to arrive at a conclusion. What do you think about LightningStrike now? So you're saying you play like trash as town, yet when you were town in HF's game you also played good. So it doesn't explain anything. I like LS, I told you that already. | ||
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On July 07 2015 09:56 rsoultin wrote: ... you played with him when he's scum and you're now saying that him playing differently makes him...scum? (for the retards who can't read, this means i think that ruxxar is MAKING SHIT UP) There's a difference between playing different and playing badly. The fact that so few people are scum reading him now is very surprising to me. But knowing what trfel is capable of, I wouldn't be surprised if he's playing the "shitty town" angle, and it seems to be working. You're also aligning yourself very strongly with Trfel. Not sure why, but it doesn't look good. Let the man fend for himself. | ||
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On July 07 2015 10:36 Trfel wrote: Which Holyflare game are you referring to? And why aren't you re-evaluating based on what I said? If you disagree, then why? Holyflare said you played well, and I trust HF to hold people to a high standard. I think your read on LS is weak. Referencing your points: 1) He doesn't react that way in his last scum game either, so NAI. 2) From what I've seen from LS he wants to get town read and hates being under pressure, he even goes as far as to claim blue. 3) This is incredibly straw man. | ||
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On July 07 2015 11:56 XEliteBlueHunter69X wrote: I am surprised no one has brought up Lightningstrike's curious response when asked about his scumreads...Trfel and me being his top scumreads makes very little sense to begin with, and his reasons on top of it leave a lot to be desired. He could have simply stated he was sheeping HF but he made up a poor reason that seems convoluted. I think if by some miracle trfel is town then LS would be a pretty good lynch to look at. I think his argument against trfel is reasonable. I agree with the fact that your blue hunting is anti town. I disagree with the conclusion that it's mafia indicative(I think it's town indicative, unless wifom), so that is indeed a bit strange that he came to that conclusion. | ||
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You're really tryharding for day 1, what's gotten into you? You're actually trying to take charge, ask questions, push the thread and figure out stuff, pretty much unlike you. I'm feeling your presence too strongly. --- I've noticed that both Oats and Vivax have been tunneling hard on geript pretty much all day. There's something about it that rubs me the wrong way. I don't like how vivax came in and his first big post was just an opportunistic jump on trying to discredit geript. #scumlean on vivax and oats. | ||
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On July 07 2015 23:52 geript wrote: Tbh. BM wouldn't be a bad lynch. But I'm hoping he gets modkilled like every BH game. I'd also point out that Vivax has been getting a free pass for no good reason. Talk to me about vivax geript, I don't get a good vibe from this guy at all. | ||
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On July 08 2015 00:09 Oatsmaster wrote: Sorry for playing the game? Why exactly is tunneling geript wrong? you have a townread on him? I don't like you tunneling geript for 2 reasons: - You're trying several times to call him mafia for scumslipping. - You voted on him saying you're "tired of this shit", when geript actually made a decent post about you instead of refuting it. I also disagree with this post from you: On July 07 2015 19:45 Oatsmaster wrote: Marv read the rest. I'm not kidding. We just played in a game, newbie something. Geript got lynched day 1, I was universally town read d1. So for Geript to say that I get scumread as town is inaccurate and he should know. You got scum-read pretty hard that game. It's very selective to just look at day 1. And the reason you didn't get scumread as much early was because we had stronger scumreads, not because you were a town hero making solid cases. There's a difference between not getting lynched because there are better lynch targets, and getting universally town read. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + On July 07 2015 00:35 Oatsmaster wrote: Look, just cause geript spouted some shit last game, doesnt mean he didnt slip this game. Regardless, he is scum outside of that On July 07 2015 00:40 Oatsmaster wrote: Im sure you have never ever slipped as mafia. I do it like once a game but no one ever notices. | ||
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On July 08 2015 01:19 Oatsmaster wrote: yeah that was one time. It was one complete conversation. Is this really the only thing you got outta the reply? Ok then. Marv, whatever I cant read xxx. It's not the fact that it's one conversation, but the fact that you later(which you can see by the timestamp in the third quote), went back and emphasized the fact that he scum slipped as if that somehow lends credence to your argument. | ||
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On July 08 2015 01:28 Oatsmaster wrote: yeah so it was twice, once when i mentioned the 2 part scumslip, then the next time when I reminded people. Whats your problem? Dont you think its a scumslip? I can think of other reasons.... I wouldn't take that risk day 1. | ||
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Your interaction with geript here is like a flashback to the conversation between batsnacks and geript in our last game. I like you slightly better due to the way you reacted. I don't want to lynch you today. | ||
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It's likely mafia will either NK or RB him. If they NK him, great for us, 1 question mark out of the way. If they RB him, also great, 1 less RB on another potential PR. If he's mafia, we gain incredibly little information due to his contribution. If he lives until tomorrow and doesn't provide anything useful we can lynch him. Current would lynch list: Rsoultin(Didn't like her derailing of HF's questioning + other reasons) Vivax(Don't like his push on geript) Milo(His push on LS) I'm uncertain about Trfel atm. There's something really weird going on with him and I don't know what it is. I want to give him more time to give his general thoughts on the game before i take a stance, but his play so far has been terrible. | ||
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On July 08 2015 03:02 Oatsmaster wrote: Except that was more legitamate than my scumslip thing. This post just gives me bad feels man. How do you normally play mafia? What do you mean? | ||
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On July 08 2015 03:35 ritoky wrote: alright honestly, fuck this shit. 3 hours left we need a lynch, even if it is on me. no lynching is worse for town than lynching a 1 shot cop who is probably getting rb'd or shot. if you're not voting on me or HtS I am going to badger you until you give a reason that makes me want to make that person a train instead of the two of us or you need to vote on one. let's begin. RUXXAR: Why are you not voting on me or HtS? I don't see why those are the only 2 options. I already gave a reason why I don't want to vote for you. As for HTS: in my interaction with her in the thread I didn't get a vibe of scumminess, more like genuine curiosity. Haven't had time read her filter in detail but that's my initial feelings. | ||
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On July 08 2015 03:28 Vivax wrote: What didn't you like about my push on geript Ruxxar. IS it hard to understand that I think he's exaggerating some aspects of his play to try looking more townie? I don't like how you needed to discredit geript by attacking his personality(not a fan of the cowboy post). Also dont like how you make that one big post about geript, and after that you discard anything geript says, as if his alignment is set in stone: On July 07 2015 16:34 Vivax wrote: Why am I talking to this guy? It was obvious from the start he's mafia. | ||
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On July 08 2015 03:42 ritoky wrote: Those are currently the 2 options because they lead in votes, feel free to make a compelling case and replace one of the two of us. Are those reasons for not lynching me or HtS worth potentially no lynching on day 1? They don't sound worth a no-lynch to me. Not worth a no-lynch. If I had to pick one right now, it'd be you, but I really don't want to. I'll have to take some time to read the cases on HTS to see why she's scum-read. | ||
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On July 06 2015 11:41 milo109 wrote: >.< I'll find some other way to avoid it. Anything but projecting towny. Milo, can you explain this statement? | ||
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On July 08 2015 04:55 boxerfred wrote: I don't think I'll vote for ritoky today. Said before why (not lynching un-cc'ed blue claim if I have other reads). We already discussed why this make little sense in 1-shot, 2-shot, multi-shot games. It's a way higher chance of hitting an unoccupied role with your fake-claims. | ||
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On July 08 2015 04:55 boxerfred wrote: I don't think I'll vote for ritoky today. Said before why (not lynching un-cc'ed blue claim if I have other reads). Also if he's fake-claiming an already occupied role as mafia, I see no benefit for town if the real cop claims. Ritoky wants to get lynched anyway. | ||
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I'm down. | ||
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- Overuse of threat defusing emoticons(see xP). - Unable to answer an easy question in a clear manner. - 1 incredibly bad post out of context - Deflecting off Trfel for god knows what reason. Seems like scum defending town or scum defending scum. - Keeps tunneling HF all game without trying to really solve the game. ##Vote rsoultin | ||
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On July 08 2015 05:21 Vivax wrote: What is this trash. Rso is town, BM claimed, ritoky claimed and you think he's town anyway. And why is Damdred not playing his town game? You or Trfel are the best options. Why is Rso town? | ||
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On July 08 2015 05:35 Holyflare wrote: hahaha i already forgot about fucking mz ahahaha I was certain he would get modkilled. | ||
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On July 08 2015 05:30 ruXxar wrote: K so this is why I'm switching my vote to rsoultin: - Overuse of threat defusing emoticons(see xP). - Unable to answer an easy question in a clear manner. - 1 incredibly bad post out of context - Deflecting off Trfel for god knows what reason. Seems like scum defending town or scum defending scum. - Keeps tunneling HF all game without trying to really solve the game. ##Vote rsoultin | ||
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I want to understand why you hard-defended trfel. It blows my mind and I can't understand it. HF was trying to have a normal conversation with the guy, and you butt inn guns blazing and throw the biggest fit in history of ever, derailing any further productive conversation and on top of that start calling HF mafia and keep tunneling him for the rest of the game. | ||
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On July 08 2015 06:23 KelsierSC wrote: anyone else see what I see. Jeez, are gonna go down the scum slip road again? zzz | ||
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What if mafia switches off then don't switch back? GG no-lynch. | ||
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On July 08 2015 06:55 rsoultin wrote: where did ruxx go? I'm not done with you rsoul. I'll reply to you in a bit. | ||
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On July 08 2015 07:00 rsoultin wrote: but lurking during vote consolidation okay ^^ On July 08 2015 06:47 ruXxar wrote: You guys switching off MZ are not thinking clearly. What if mafia switches off then don't switch back? GG no-lynch. The absolute worst that could happen is a no-lynch. I was not taking any chances. | ||
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HF, was putting pressure on trfel. And well founded pressure too with the way trfel has been playing this game. Putting pressure on people is a good thing, it's an excellent tool for extracting information. Yet you seem to have a problem with people putting pressure on trfel, and you guard him like a watch dog. The issue is not that you came with your opinion on trfel, that is completely fine and legit. The problem is that you acted irrationally and actively tried to disrupt and deny us information out of Trfel. When someone observes a contradiction or inconsistency in what people say and they question them about it, the most anti-town thing you can do is try to interject and derail the questioning, which is exactly what you did. Tell me this, why are you defending Trfel when he is perfectly capable of defending himself? Furthermore, he might be mafia, so why are you so adamant about defending someone without knowing their alignment? Your goal as town should be to get as much information out of anyone as to form a basis of judgement on. Blindly defending people as town is an incredibly bad way to play. Combined with your other actions this game, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. | ||
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On July 08 2015 07:50 Clarity_nl wrote: He hasn't flipped yet? Or am I just dumb? I just double checked... He flipped wanderer. | ||
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On July 08 2015 07:52 rsoultin wrote: do you even begin to realize how difficult it is for me to even bother finish reading this pile of shit when it's clear you didn't bother to actually READ our interaction? go away, or actually fact check your own fucking claims i've answered all your leading questions already i've formed my judgment on truffle and until i actually see anything to indicate otherwise, you can bite me i was right on gb. i was right on damdy. i was right on bugs. i was right on hf. i was right on you. and i was right on wave and oats. but instead of CONSIDERING after seeing my play last game and losing the game while ignoring my advice in your newbie, that i might actually have a good fucking toneread on truffle you try to paint it as me denying information? lol >< I read your interaction just fine. Let me recap my view of it, just so you can correct me if I'm missing something. 1st interaction: Starts here Recap: HF: "Trfel you are playing like burnt out mafia" RS: "I don't think he is, but I'll find out soon for sure" HF: "I don't need your opinion RS" RS: "Trfel is town, your reads are wrong!". HF: "I don't need you go away". Mod: Interrupts. 2nd interaction: Starts here Recap: HF: "I wanted to force Trfel to present his argument in a logical manner" RS: "HF is misrepresenting me and being a dick, I don't mind if you question Trfel" HF: (Posts quotes where you disrupted him from questioning) RS: "You were trying to shit on me!" HF: "I don't deny being a dick, but I was trying to pressure trfel to gain information" RS: "Stop questioning him so early! Let's talk about something else" (topic changed) 3rd interaction: Starts here Recap: HF: "Trfel there's an inconsistency in your read on LS, explain why". RS: "HF, you can't read!" RS: "I want to let trfel answer for himself, but you guys are too stupid!" HF: "How is that not reading?" RS: "Trfel already explained it!" HF: "Explained it how?" RS: "HTS saw the questioning, why don't you get it?" HF: "How does that explain him changing his stance?" RS: "You are stupid HF!" (Shitfight ensues, questioning derailed) It's all pretty obvious disruption from my point of view. Once again you're derailing. I'm not going away anytime soon. | ||
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On July 08 2015 09:57 rsoultin wrote: just because you paraphrase it this way doesn't make it correct ^^ why don't you talk to me about your other reads instead of trying to convince me i'm scum? you're clearly not attempting to determine my alignment at all with the bias-laden wording in your posts If it's incorrect then you should correct it. If you don't I'll assume its correct. I went through all the posts and wrote down my interpretation of them. I don't need to convince you that you're scum, I'm trying to convince everyone else. What bias? This is my interpretation of the events. I encourage everyone that don't believe me to go read for themselves and make up their own mind. | ||
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On July 08 2015 13:24 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Rso is not mafia go do something else ruxxar. Why not? | ||
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On July 08 2015 13:28 rsoultin wrote: lol you're never lynching me off a faulty paraphrase, pup, and i don't feel the need to "correct" what is clearly visible just reading the posts i asked you what other reads you had an exercise! \o/ you treat me like you're reading me town and i'll treat you like i'm reading you town, even if i don't much believe it...this tunnel of yours is at best wrong and at worst scummy, so give me something else to read you off if you're actually town This is the incorrect response as town. A town person would want to project town by proving that their actions benefits town. Since you are unwilling to do that, i can only assume that you can't prove that you had town motives behind your actions. | ||
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Right. Now go look at my case and tell me where I'm wrong. | ||
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Why? | ||
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On July 08 2015 13:43 ObiWanShinobi wrote: You're basically expecting her to play exactly the way you would want town to play. That argument has never worked in the history of ever. She's denying the fact that she derailed the questioning of trfel multiple times. I showed her evidence. She refused to look at the evidence and just called it wrong without correcting it. It's pretty simple really. | ||
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Thread derailing post 2 | ||
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If you read her response to post 1, you can see that she dodges my questions by discrediting my post saying "my facts don't check out" Well when I bring her the facts in post 2 she still evades the topic, and again discredits my post by simply calling it "wrong". I still want an answer from her to my questions in post 1, now that I've brought her the facts. | ||
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On July 08 2015 13:53 Oatsmaster wrote: This thread derailing shit people keep talking about isnt actually a thing. Why not? | ||
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That's all you got? | ||
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On July 08 2015 14:05 ObiWanShinobi wrote: I know what you're saying. I don't think what you're saying is inherently incorrect. I understand the point of what you're bringing up - you think rso is scum derailing the thread and doesn't have a rebuttal to what you're bringing up. The point is that I don't think scum!rso makes a big poopy in the middle of the thread for everyone to see. I don't see how her tirade on white-knighting Trfel is inherently scum-motivated because there's no scum end-goal to her actions - it's just a giant sloppy mess that I don't think she would go through the trouble of perpetrating unless there was something in it for her as scum. That's exactly the point, *we won't know why unless she answers the question of why she did it*. In what world does a town person not want to explain their actions? | ||
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On July 08 2015 14:12 Breshke wrote: Because she read trfel as town and HF as scum and she thought HF was trying to misrepresent trfel to bury him. Look im doing it aswell now I want you to look deeper than that. Not just at what she did, but how she responds when she's questioned about it. Does that look like a natural towny response to you? | ||
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On July 08 2015 14:16 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Ruxx, talk to me about someone else for now. Talk to me about clarity or EBH. Even if rso is mafia she isn't getting lynched tomorrow just by virtue of her being active so surely you have other scumreads/alternatives you want to explore. Clarity was one of my top scum reads early on. I dropped his vote due to a personal theory of mine that I'd rather not share. I'm going to re-evaluate him tomorrow. Ebh I also haven't been tracking since his opening post. Didn't care for his blue hunting obviously, but didn't strike me as particularly scummy outside of that. I haven't been keeping up on everyone today a lot of noise towards the lynch. I'll be reevaluating people throughout the night now that things slowed done a bit. I'll give you my updated reads on them tomorrow and other people I find noteworthy tomorrow. Going to bed for now, good night | ||
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On July 08 2015 14:19 Breshke wrote: What is a "natural townie response"? If i could explain it soe asily you dont think she could have made up some bullshit as mafia? Explain to me how it is mafia indicative to be stubborn thats what she was being. In your perfect world of how people are ment to act wouldn't the mafia be more likely to try and explain this because they want approval from town? The logic can be used both ways I'll answer this tomorrow. | ||
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[QUOTE]On July 08 2015 14:19 Breshke wrote: [QUOTE]On July 08 2015 14:15 ruXxar wrote: [QUOTE]On July 08 2015 14:12 Breshke wrote: [QUOTE]On July 08 2015 14:09 ruXxar wrote: [QUOTE]On July 08 2015 14:05 ObiWanShinobi wrote: I know what you're saying. I don't think what you're saying is inherently incorrect. I understand the point of what you're bringing up - you think rso is scum derailing the thread and doesn't have a rebuttal to what you're bringing up. The point is that I don't think scum!rso makes a big poopy in the middle of the thread for everyone to see. I don't see how her tirade on white-knighting Trfel is inherently scum-motivated because there's no scum end-goal to her actions - it's just a giant sloppy mess that I don't think she would go through the trouble of perpetrating unless there was something in it for her as scum.[/QUOTE] That's exactly the point, *we won't know why unless she answers the question of why she did it*. In what world does a town person not want to explain their actions?[/QUOTE] Because she read trfel as town and HF as scum and she thought HF was trying to misrepresent trfel to bury him. Look im doing it aswell now[/QUOTE] I want you to look deeper than that. Not just at what she did, but how she responds when she's questioned about it. Does that look like a natural towny response to you?[/QUOTE] What is a "natural townie response"? If i could explain it soe asily you dont think she could have made up some bullshit as mafia? Explain to me how it is mafia indicative to be stubborn thats what she was being. In your perfect world of how people are ment to act wouldn't the mafia be more likely to try and explain this because they want approval from town? The logic can be used both ways[/QUOTE] I think a townie would want to prove their innocence by actually replying to the question instead of shit talking me and my post trying to discredit my point. This is also what I have pinned other people scum on(e.g vivax). Resorting to discrediting people by calling them or their post shit without refuting it, is a mafia trait from my point of view. It has nothing to do with being stubborn, you can be stubborn without trash talking people. | ||
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On July 08 2015 14:31 ruXxar wrote: I think a townie would want to prove their innocence by actually replying to the question instead of shit talking me and my post trying to discredit me. This is also what I have pinned other people scum on(e.g vivax). Resorting to discrediting people by calling them or their post shit without refuting it, is a mafia trait from my point of view. It has nothing to do with being stubborn, you can be stubborn without trash talking people. *fixed quoting. | ||
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On July 08 2015 15:03 rsoultin wrote: look ruxx i attempted to get you to engage with me. you refused. you claim to be asking me questions that i not only already answered, but after i said as much you said you were trying to convince everyone ELSE which by definition means you didn't give a flying shit what i responded in the first place maybe this is some en masse hf channeling thing where all "townies" think tunneling and sniping at players is the same as questioning them/pressuring them, but if you want me to actually address your concerns (lol concerns ><) 1. actually phrase them in a way where it's not obvious you've already made up your mind 2. actually read my responses to the questions you've already asked and i've already answered 3. engage with me on your other reads cause you won't convince me i'm scum, and you're not posting in a way that would actually help determine my alignment; you're flat-out tunneling case and point? you literally have no other scumreads right now like i don't see how this is townplay, but obviously i'm biased (btw it's not thread derailment to call shit reasoning and pretend "questioning" shit. you already revealed your hand by saying you weren't trying to engage with me in the first place. also, kindly don't refer to your paraphrasing as "fact" that's just ridiculous) i'll try to get a reads list up tonight at least lol >< 1) This is irrelevant. 2) Please point out where you answered my questions, because I don't see it. 3) I'm not going to engange with someone who shows me no respect and talks shit about my post without even bothering to correct it. | ||
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On July 08 2015 23:08 rsoultin wrote: okay ruxxar. i've explained it all, but not concisely and not politely because i'm not polite but i'll do it solely to have it in one place and to say this is the last time i am going to discuss my trfel toneread or my interactions/read on hf, whether you keep ignoring that and tunneling with the same points or not reasons i'm tonereading truffle town: lightness with me (i catch him as mafia early, see student v where i opened with pressure on truffle for his weird read on ls, and greymist's game), joking that matches his dry humor, grumbling at me for saying i thought he was town (look at it this way: as scum he should be happy that he gets an rsoul townread and finally broke my streak...as town it makes a lot more sense to be irritated that i'm still getting a read off him off very few posts), and yes, not wanting to give an opinion on something he hasn't looked at is actually towny cause truffle holds himself to ridiculously high standards and spends an inordinate amount of time combing through posts before coming to a decision <- all of these things are very personal that i realize other people don't know about him and mean more to me than others, so i didn't go into it, just as i didn't go into it with my early toneread on damdy in himalayas the first exchange with hf: you're misrepresenting/misreading it. when hf first said he didn't need my opinion i let it go. i was actually discussing things with bresh and truffle when hf said "see, this post means his question to you wasn't trying to determine your alignment"...to which i responded that i didn't think that was the purpose of the question anyway and made a joke about hf forgetting how stubborn i was...he then basically told me to shut up and go into a corner and color, so yeah, i got pissed at him. i actually broke it off BEFORE the mod ever intervened, which frankly was probably for the post hf made right before the mod post...because that was ad hominem to a tee, basically saying no one gives a shit what i say because of my tonereads subsequently: i came back to the thread scumreading hf because i'd had time to cool down and where he said he was questioning truffle, he actually was saying, and yes i'm paraphrasing "you're scum cause you have mafiaitis. nothing you can say or do will change my mind. you may as well give up". plus the way he just threw shit at me when i wasn't doing anything. usually we only shitfight when he's scum, and i JUST came off a game where he and bugs did that to deliberately put me on tilt cause i'm fiery -_- i kept trying to get people to see what i was seeing and he kept on trying to say i was defending truffle and everyone else was taking that up, and it was supremely frustrating that people kept not understanding what i was trying to say...that hf never intended to get a read off truffle in the first place that continued with ignoring the fact that truffle was quizzing ls between the time of his townread and scumread on ls and had said he was writing something on him, instead just going hey! look! nothing has happened between these reads! me saying he's not reading was his clue to go back and read. hts did it. she saw it. hf should have. he preferred to fight me instead the only reason i left off hf was his point on truffle's case all coming from before he dropped the townread was actually good. i even tried to explain what my issue with him was more concisely, which works better when i'm not angry. it's still weird to me that he thinks telling someone they're scum and he won't ever change his mind is pressure, but i was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for the moment since yeah, even if he's scum not gonna lynch him d1 like ever >< was more productive to discuss reads but here i come back to the thread and he's back to jumping on me for nitnoidisms as for you, you're just parroting him like you two are butt buddies, and it feels a lot like being double-teamed...deja vu bugs and hf...plus i KNOW that you've seen i do this toneread thing and am willing to fight for it regardless if the so-called "evidence" when it comes to an actual lynch; see: GB, so why you find it so weird i'm doing it again this game i can't fathom most of this i've already said now i will ignore you unless you talk about something else or are actually willing to talk reads instead of whining about me being pissed at your misrepresentation and inattentiveness was that polite enough? also, yeah...i didn't get through the thread @.@ i'd just post a reads list, but it would only be for the sake of posting it cause it's outdated i really don't like hf still, or ruxx (though this could be OMGUS i'm willing to admit), and damdy felt off to me, too, but i want to read the section of the day i missed that had people scumreading him before i come to a judgment on that beyond that i think bresh/truffle/marv/geript are top townies for me...would add palmar to that but lol my track record with palmar >< someone else can read him I appreciate the change in tone here. I can work with you like this. Now, I don't really feel like you're addressing the main point here. The essence of all my posting is simply this: why did you feel the necessity to defend/answer for trfel? HF was not addressing you, so you shouldn't have felt any need to interject. I can see these reasonable motives: 1 you are town, you and trfel are such close friends that you feel like you need to defend him since you think your read is correct and everyone else is wrong.(I don't see you defending other people being attacked) 2 you are mafia defending town trfel because you are certain of his alignment and you know he's an easy target. If he flips you know you will look good for defending him. 3 you are mafia defending mafia trfel because he's your partner. Right now I'm leaning toward options 2 and 3, because the composite of your play seems scummy to me. That said, there's other people in the game, and I need to spend my time evaluating them as well. | ||
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On July 09 2015 02:20 Oatsmaster wrote: Actually ruxxar, what someone said is earlier is correct. It makes no sense for scum rsoul to throw herself out there and defend a townie. She did it so obtrusively and badly. Like really really badly that shes not scum for it. Remember sulfurous? He did the exact same play. Defended a townie as scum, and it looked like such a terrible scum play that I thought he was town the whole game. After that game I don't think that the "shitty town" excuse is valid enough for me to not scum read someone. | ||
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I wouldn't have thought much about it if she did it once. But the fact that she persistently deflects off trfel is strange to me. It might just be a thing between her and HF though, but I found it weird anyway. | ||
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If the first statement is given in relation to when the only 2 options were mz and bm then it makes sense. | ||
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On July 09 2015 04:10 Clarity_nl wrote: This question is insanely dumb on so many levels, why are you asking it? Please explain what you're hoping to get out of this? I'm curious of how upset you would be if HF died. | ||
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On July 09 2015 04:31 Clarity_nl wrote: I'd be devestated, I wouldn't be able to feed myself for at least an hour. I like that response. Thanks. | ||
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On July 09 2015 05:09 marvellosity wrote: i just can't understand the rationale ritoky claims 1-shot cop, milo claims 2-shot: 1-shot is less risky mafia claim milo's claim comes AFTER ritoky's, so he decides to claim the same thing but with 2-shot? milo has given multiple reads since his claim ritoky has wishywashyed around yet no mention of ritoky, and milo is mafia? read MZ's post #5 on this page, all the reasoning he gives for milo applies MORE to ritoky... ?????? To be fair, he no longer had the option of claiming 1-shot, so that's not really a point in his favor. If he claimed 1 shot to contest ritoky, then we'd basically have to kill them both and kill 1 mafia guaranteed. With the claim of 2-shot he can just produce any random green check as Mafia and still live for multiple days. | ||
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On July 09 2015 05:16 marvellosity wrote: of course he did you can have multiple one-shot of the same role. none of your points make sense Right nvm. Was thinking of 1 limit per role + flavor. | ||
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On July 09 2015 06:06 XEliteBlueHunter69X wrote: Alright this mz/milo/ritoky thing has been beaten to death. Anyone that wants to chime in feel free to give me your opinion on kelsier/breshke/obi Finally back on my PC, that's great, can read filters n stuff. Kelsier: Liked him at the start. Was top townread. As game went on presence fell off. Don't understand his response to my rsoultin case. One strange reply then never mentions it again? The last half of his filter is awful. Appears to be active without actually involving himself. Has fallen down from Top town to slightly above null. Breshke: Been on the periphery, not really paid much attention to him. Currently null. Obi: Didn't particularly have an opinion of him at the start. Reading his filter a lot of his opinions align with mine so that's a +. I liked his response to my case on rsoul +. Town lean. | ||
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On July 09 2015 06:31 Damdred wrote: I like this post, I like ruxxor. He just seems so carefree with his thoughts. zzz. when are you going to learn to spell my name right damdy? | ||
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On July 09 2015 06:33 Damdred wrote: At the same time I learn never to call rsoultin a he when I'm typing fast For some reason i'm typing "she" every time i'm writing about clarity_nl. It's not until I look over my posts that I notice it. | ||
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On July 09 2015 06:33 marvellosity wrote: ruxora has been sexy all game asdlfdsjknfsdf. stop butchering my name q.q | ||
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On July 09 2015 06:34 milo109 wrote: I've revised my opinions. I think this game is easy. We kill MZ, HF, Clarit, Vivax, LS, Scott, Ritoky (in that order), and then wait for mafia to concede. Oh great milo. I bow to your eternal wisdom. Lead us to victory! zzz | ||
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On July 09 2015 06:34 milo109 wrote: I've revised my opinions. I think this game is easy. We kill MZ, HF, Clarit, Vivax, LS, Scott, Ritoky (in that order), and then wait for mafia to concede. On a serious note: Explain your scumread on HF. | ||
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Earlier you said this: On July 07 2015 12:14 XEliteBlueHunter69X wrote: You would have to explain what you specifically wanted to know. My conclusion is that it's clearly a tug of war here and one side contains a mafia, which I am siding with the side saying trfel is mafia. If he is town it is worth looking at the other side for mafia of course. It's a bit simplistic but I feel it works in this particular situation Can you give a re-evaluation on this, do you still hold this stance? | ||
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At least he likely saved marvel, good job! | ||
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On July 09 2015 07:12 ritoky wrote: On phone @ work. Roleblocked, tried to inv WoS; power was refunded so I still have my 1-shot investigate. Back later. Mmm, that's unfortunate but expected. Curious to hear what milo got. | ||
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On July 09 2015 07:53 milo109 wrote: I was roleblocked by the way. I got reactions from the two I wanted. I'll post my thoughts after dinner. 2 Roleblocks? Sounds unlikely. | ||
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On July 09 2015 08:17 geript wrote: Well that's cute. Why did you visit ritoky last night? Hah! Knew it! Got em boys. | ||
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Anyone not voting for you today is irrational or mafia. | ||
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Both ritoky and milo said they were role-blocked. Here are my likely scenarios: -Mafia has 2 role-blockers and blocked ritoky and Milo. In this scenario damdred is mafia role-blocker. -There's 1 mafia role-blocker and 1 town JK. Damdred is the JK and milo was role-blocked by mafia. -Milo is lying and is not the cop and was not roleblocked. Damdred is likely mafia here. Damdred, are you 1-shot, 2-shot or multishot JK? | ||
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On July 09 2015 09:11 Clarity_nl wrote: Super interested in milo's thoughts | ||
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On July 09 2015 09:26 geript wrote: Oh yah. And to all those people who are sucking my dick now based on the track check. Like this is the shit that pisses me off. Once there's a semi-hint of confirmable information you think my reads a fucking great. But when it's just as best as I can describe it, you either don't get it or don't believe it. Like there's literally very little reason to think he's that much more mafia now than he was yesterday. I thought you were a pr yesterday and tried to tell oats to back off. On July 08 2015 01:37 Oatsmaster wrote: WHAT RISK IS THERE? HOW IS THAT NOT A SCUMSLIP. Classic oats. | ||
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On July 09 2015 09:43 Clarity_nl wrote: Yeah I felt the same. With his reaction to "investigator" he's either blue or scum.. Exactly. | ||
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On July 09 2015 09:44 Clarity_nl wrote: I also wanted to stop people from claiming VT. What do you mean? What's bad about claiming VT? | ||
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On July 09 2015 19:35 Harkon wrote: So once you people all put your votes on damdred you can speculate about the cops all you want even though ritoky is basically confirmed town when damdred flips mafia. Geript is already confirmed town. Milo is most likely mafia. I like what you're selling. | ||
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At this point I feel it's more likely milo. | ||
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Milo even seemed prepared with a plan to get clarity lynched. | ||
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So it's a terrible play from mafia perspective to claim a red check on a townie. | ||
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Instead he makes the suboptimal play of claiming a red check, then rescinding. I can't really make that fit in a milo mafia world. | ||
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On July 09 2015 20:03 marvellosity wrote: bolded and italics are two different things What are you trying to say? | ||
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On July 09 2015 20:10 marvellosity wrote: wanting to appear believable = a red check more so than an easy-to-make green check. if he wants to appear believable, claim a red. if i assume milo is mafia, then the scumteam mentality is that milo is dead in the water, and it's just how much time he can buy before he goes under. the goal for milo is not to survive indefinitely. Then why did he rescind the red claim instead of sticking with it? It makes no sense. | ||
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Either he claims a green check and tries to survive, or he claims a green check to take one person down with him. Claiming red and then rescinding is like the worst mafia play, now he gains nothing. | ||
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On July 09 2015 20:32 ruXxar wrote: I only see two plays from a mafia milo, Either he claims a green check and tries to survive, or he claims a red check to take one person down with him. Claiming red and then rescinding is like the worst mafia play, now he gains nothing. Fixed | ||
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On July 10 2015 22:25 rsoultin wrote: honestly? yes. like you ignored what i was saying in my post because i said you didn't read, after missing what i said in my previous post. i wasn't even being bitchy until you got nasty about it, i tried to explain it again which you're still ignoring ruxxar is pushing me for shit he can't possibly believe after our last game together he is pushing me for tonereads tonereads tonereads tonereads after last game. like this is what irritates me so much. how do i explain this any better than i have? what do i need to SAY for people to understand? I'm sorry RS, but you're demonstrating time and time again that you're not understanding why I'm scum reading you. It could be my fault for using ambiguous wording, but I'll try again because I don't want you to get upset over something that you misunderstood. So let me make this as clear as I can: I am not scum reading you for town reading trfel. Your opinion of trel is absolutely irrelevant to my case. My case against you is that you are disrupting people trying to pressure/question trfel. That's it. And in my post where I paraphrase your interaction with HF, I demonstrate how you did it not just once, but multiple times. | ||
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My would lynch list right now is: + Show Spoiler + Vivax Rsoultin Trfel People closest to entering the lynch list is: + Show Spoiler + WoS Kelsier EBH My would not lynch list is : + Show Spoiler + Geript Harkon Marv LS Oats HTS Holyflare I can qualify if you want to know specifics. | ||
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On July 10 2015 14:23 Trfel wrote: It turns out you answered it like 3 posts above, so... I've tried to talk to people a few times, but no one seems to want to talk to me at all. And I can't blame them, I don't really know anything XD I think I'm happy with a Damdred lynch today, and I'm comfortable with the associative milo109 scumread, and still scumreading Holyflare. Trfel I need you to talk to me. I know you are capable of so much more than you're doing right now. I feel like you're just not really into this game, and I don't like that. Can you give me your top 3 scumreads(outside of damdred/milo right now) and a short qualification of why? | ||
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On July 10 2015 23:11 Harkon wrote: Yep. Where is scott in all of this? Boxerfred? Not sure if you were adressing me, but I'll give you my reads on them anyway. So here's what I think of scott, BF and MZ Scott: I've played one game with him, i feel like he hasn't really deviated much from his play last game, where I thought he was mafia but turned out to be town. Despite that i can't remember anything important that he's said or any big contributions which is a negative. However his outbursts seem genuine enough to not make me want to lynch him right now. Like, if you look at his posting from the opening post(before the game started) and throughout the whole game, I don't feel like his behavior has changed much. Wouldn't be too sad about lynching him though. Slightly above null. BF: I like boxerfred. He really seems to be trying to figure out the game. Asks critical questions, not afraid of butting in and making his presence known. On second thought, I'm not sure if he's actually trying to figure things out, or just digging for dirt to throw on people. He has a bit of an aggressive tone, which i think is slightly mafia indicative, but usually that's when you only tunnel on one person. I feel like he's been on everyone this game, which is a good sign. He follows up people, and doesn't simply ask a question and let go. Not afraid to get into the trench with people. He's re-evaluating people he formerly had on his scumlist after seeing their play evolve. I don't know boxerfred meta, but I like how he's going about it. Town read. MZ: I didn't like how he entered the thread, but I know how hard it is to come in after missing out on a whole day. Despite that I like some of his logic and a lot of his reads line up with mine. I need to watch this guy closer though. I think I'm kind of biased against him just because he came into the thread late. Slight town lean. | ||
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Can you give me some reads on people? 3 town and 3 scum. | ||
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On July 10 2015 19:12 Vivax wrote: Feel free to give me a taste of the whip if I keep being lazy for too long. Who's your top town / scum reads atm and why? | ||
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On July 10 2015 23:44 Half the Sky wrote: My null/need to re-evaluate list is oats, ruXxar (I'm seeing both town and scum tells), EBH (I cannot wrap my arms around him), vivax and Scott. Of those people I have town on I could be wrong on Boxerfred (he's a lean but still) and Ras (as stated). I know some have their doubts on KSC and Breske I think both are town. So two in the Damdred/milo/rit, and absent the claims all had reason to question their gameplay. MZ and HF would be 4 for me and 5th scum is someone in my re evaluate list. HTS, what makes you think KSC and Breshke are town? | ||
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On July 11 2015 00:13 Holyflare wrote: OK now that all the annoying people are out of the thread can someone talk to me about trfel, specifically his case on me when he returned at deadline on day 1: Does this post align with what's happened this game? His comparisons are just based on anger but when he includes gameplay (such as guardians of the galaxy) he says i'm angry but i drop things despite objectively having no reason to. Yet, he should be able to see if he was reading the thread that i've done that several times (especially on him??) which should fit with stuff that he thinks is my town meta. Furthermore, it seems like his post doesn't even realise that I wasn't scum reading him anymore since it states stuff like "if he's so sure why is he treating me this way" but doesn't acknowledge that I'm not actually reading him that way any more. + Show Spoiler + I don't even know what i'm concluding from this but i'd like to know if he was actually caught up when writing this post because if he has this is pretty scummy. I feel like Trfel has lost touch with the game. He even said it himself that he hasn't read the last 100 pages. I think he just took the interaction from earlier, compared it to another game you've played and then made a case out of that without following the thread. | ||
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On July 11 2015 00:21 XEliteBlueHunter69X wrote: sure I can give a basic list of updated scumreads. Damdred milo meapak trfel Kelsier obi in order of sureness. Breshke would be right under that at my most scummy null but I dropped off him a bit. Explain your scumread on meapak. | ||
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On July 11 2015 00:29 LightningStrike wrote: Town: Marv: He been pretty happy this game and usually plays extremely lazy as scum. HTS: Miller claim plus her play matches up to her town meta. rsoultin: I going to have to use the rsoultin rule on this: If her and HF is doing a shitfest and they don't get along one of them is scum the other is town and I think she's town and her play is pretty similar to Linux just in a longer context :O Scum: Damdred: His early case on me is weird plus Geript tracked him to ritoky(I think if I reading the stuff correctly) who had claimed Cop. Milo: Most likely TMI'd the roleblocker stuff and his play been pretty scummy. Holyflare: See the rsoultin rule plus him getting mad at people for dumb points is very well in his scum meta. Can you give some examples of dumb points he's getting mad at? If you look outside damdred and milo who would you want to lynch after HF? | ||
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On July 11 2015 00:34 marvellosity wrote: what's the point ruxxar? LS is effectively confirmed town right now. I want to know what he thinks of the game. If he's picked up on something I might've overlooked. Right now I'm reading HF town, which is why I'm curious of why he has a different opinion. | ||
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He usually reads people by meta, so his approach to gathering reads is a bit different from mine. | ||
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On July 10 2015 23:12 marvellosity wrote: more importantly, MZ. the big scummer. Can you tell me why you think MZ is scum? | ||
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I feel like he acted way too calm for someone that is about to be mis-lynched. There was no sense of panic in his writing. If you know you are town, then your priority should be to get the lynch over on anyone you think is less than 100% town and has a realistic chance of being a lynch target with majority vote. | ||
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I find the way that milo acted to be really weird throughout the game and especially after geript outed his tracking claim on damdred and his reaction to that. | ||
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On July 11 2015 01:11 LightningStrike wrote: Mainly HF being mad at rsoultin over points about Tfrel early on about the way Tfrel acts and how rsoultin came to a different conclusion about Tfrel than him and they kept arguing about for a good portion of Day 1 and the Night Phase. She right on one thing about HF: He been mainly sniping at Tfrel. Do you not agree that trfels play has been lackluster? Do you not think that it's natural to want to question people that act strange? | ||
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On July 11 2015 01:14 marvellosity wrote: the question isn't if milo is apathetic, the question is how he can handwave ritoky's play away as "absent and town" and yet call milo's "scummy and apathetic". The distinction is nonsense. I disagree. I think that's a pretty good description of their play. Milo's play has been shallow and unconvincing. It's like he's trying to appear interested, but not really. His flow is unnatural and uninspired. Ritoky on the other hand has had a IDGAF attitude throughout. It's not particularly helpful for town, and I don't like it, but it doesn't give off a strong scummy vibe. | ||
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On July 11 2015 01:38 XEliteBlueHunter69X wrote: I have this feeling that damdred milo and mz only 2 are scum though. feels too easy I agree. I'm not particularly convinced that mz is mafia. | ||
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On July 11 2015 05:25 Damdred wrote: HI EVERYONE, the first thing is like to say is ty everyone for a mildly enjoyable game, it wasn't to much a pain to read when I sat down and read it wven if it was long. Most everyone is a joy to play with and I'm glad I was able to play for a short time with some of my favorites <3 So now to get down to the basics of trying to leave the game in a better place when I die even though I've played like an idiot today. I feel like these people are extremely towny still in this game and are probably the top town. Marv Ruxxar Geript Ritoky hark Each one of these has something special about their games. I was deathly wrong about ritoky early because he broke his meta that I knew of him, but his later postings plus the kp went through even though he was blocked. Hark and geript are confirmed blues to me, geript tracked me to my target can't argue there. Hark ate a shot and Marv is his normal towny self. LS is interesting I'm that he claims he gave a gun to someone but we have a shit ton of blue claims, so if someone pipes up tommorow claiming a horrible shot o. One of these top towns its possible ls is fake claiming scum vigi on some bizzaro world but overall I think the claim is pretty believable. I like both HTS and I like Breshke. Both seem to care about the game and generally are trying to push what they think in the thread. Those are the people I am generally town reading no matter what. People I'm scum reading are Rsoultin Milo MZ Trfel I've talked a good bit about Milo and rsoultin in my filter lynch them. geript and a few others seem sure about mz. Theblack of carss bothers me and the ability to actively lurk while barely doing much. Wave fits in this category to btw. Trfel doesn't care to me when I look at the game more than likely is scum If I had to guess the last scum its someone in hf or wave. But maybe I'm horrible at reading wave, ke maybe to idk a bit torn any questions I'll be happy to answer before death You didn't mention what's so special about me. And frankly, if you flip red then this is all pretty much wifom anyway. | ||
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I'm really curious what you meant with this quote: On July 08 2015 19:16 Vivax wrote: I'm pretty irritated by the way HF abandoned the suspicion of Trfel just when mine started to build up. It seems like you're somehow sad that an opportunity to jump on a trfel scum train went away. This was the last time you mentioned trfel in your filter and it was N1. | ||
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On July 11 2015 06:17 milo109 wrote: I would approve a switch from Damdred onto me, by the way. It probably makes life easier for town. You're trying to save your scum teams roleblocker? Nice try. | ||
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On July 11 2015 06:21 Vivax wrote: HF said Trfel afk = bad. I said (or at least thought) "well it's early and he posted a few reads, let's see what he does later", then EoD 1 I wasn't happy with him and HF somehow lost interest, so opposite reactions. What do you think Dam will flip? I think damdred flips red. Damdred is playing totally different from the last game. Way too mellow for my taste. | ||
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oh please.. | ||
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On July 11 2015 06:38 Vivax wrote: Your posts from earlier say something else. Entirely. I liked him up until his push on clarity. After that he dropped off the radar and has changed behavior completely after getting called out by geript. | ||
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On July 11 2015 06:40 rsoultin wrote: ^^ you're welcome. anymore tonereads you'd like? i can sell them for a few bucks a piece It doesn't take a genius to see that damdreds behavior has flipped completely. Exactly the same reaction that mig had when he knew he was going to get lynched. | ||
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Your point is? | ||
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On July 11 2015 06:47 rsoultin wrote: obvious boring there was like no need for you to say what you did...it was an obvious piggyback Piggyback on what? I answered a question directed at me. | ||
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On July 11 2015 06:49 rsoultin wrote: okay, fair enough lol >< it just was phrased eerily similar to what i said to milo Do I look like Holyflare? Just relax ok? | ||
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If we assume that there's only 1 mafia RB, then milo is practically confirmed mafia at this point. If you think this is the case, then it's idiotic not to lynch milo tomorrow. If we assume there's 2 mafia RB's, then I actually believe milo to be a real cop. The mafia play is then to RB both cops and push a world with only 1 RB to get a mis-lynch on milo. I want to live in the 1 RB world, but we shouldn't automatically rule out 2 mafia RBs. | ||
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On July 11 2015 11:08 rsoultin wrote: so what's your read on milo independent of the claim, ruxx? stating the obvious is boring I don't particularly like milo's play up until this point. The things I didn't like primarily was his push on LS, and his interaction with damdred was strange. I'll have to re-evaluate that from a standpoint of him actually being a real cop, seemed strange how certain he was that damdred was the real JK though. In general I don't like the tone of his posts. I made a tone-read earlier: On July 11 2015 03:26 ruXxar wrote: Milo's play has been shallow and unconvincing. It's like he's trying to appear interested, but not really. His flow is unnatural and uninspired. | ||
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On July 11 2015 11:23 rsoultin wrote: lol are you flirting with me? zzzz @ ruxx coming into to blabber about obvious mechanics then peacing out .... | ||
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On July 11 2015 11:23 rsoultin wrote: i stand corrected lol >< you needed over 10 minutes to write that? When I give an opinion on people I like to back into their filter to make sure that what I remember actually is factually correct with their actions. | ||
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On July 11 2015 11:29 rsoultin wrote: yeah like that toneread doesn't even appear until well after the whole thread is talking about lynching him, so i'm just going to completely disregard it xP talk to me about the fake redcheck What do you want to know? I think it's a suboptimal play from a mafia trying to survive. Keep in mind that this was before geript outed. I think the mechanically correct play as mafia is to fake a greencheck/redcheck and then stick with it. Rescinding the check and saying that you got roleblocked is trying to sell the world of there being either 2 mafia RBs or 1 Mafia RB + 1 jailer. I think that is a low percentage play, so I'm not a fan of it. | ||
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On July 11 2015 11:49 milo109 wrote: If in some very odd, very parallel universe, you did not automatically assume I was mafia, what would you read from the check? I'm not sure what you mean specifically. Can you clarify? | ||
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On July 11 2015 11:51 rsoultin wrote: yet you think milo is scum? like you made this case for him before geript's claim, and then you said he should be auto? I find (2 mafia RB's/RB + JK) unlikely, but possible. I want to believe in the 1 RB world though. | ||
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On July 11 2015 11:52 milo109 wrote: Your response to the check was under the assumption that I was mafia. Under the assumption that I was null, what would your response be? From a real cop perspective that actually got role-blocked, then you know you're pretty much not going to get any checks off until you die. I think the play I would make is to just fake a red on the most scummy player on my list and stick with it. You know you are 100% town, and everyone else is below 100%, so you have to trust in your own reads. In that case I think you made the right play with faking the red-check, but screwed up when you rescinded. | ||
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Let's not make a mess of it like the 1st day and try to have a few primary targets ready for lynch tomorrow. If we don't it'll end up in chaos and mafia can abuse the indecisiveness to push mis-lynches. If you have not made up your mind on Milo's alignment yet, that should be your first priority right now. If you disagree with lynching milo, I'd like to hear your arguments. We'll have more info after tonight, but assuming that milo lives, we need to reach a consensus on whether to lynch him or not. @milo: can you talk a little bit more about the fake red check, the plan behind it, what you gained from and why you rescinded so early. I have some follow up questions after that. | ||
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On July 11 2015 15:34 geript wrote: OK this is pretty much bullshit. Let me be clear. I'm kinda meh about Harkon. The claim is completely irrelevant. There's a great set of reasons to claim vet there. Yes, it helps sink Damdred, but that ship is essentially already done and gone. So you're sacrificing a piece that you've already lost in order to gain town cred. Nothing against Harkon, but if he doesn't die then he becomes pretty sketchy and would 100% lynch him at lylo. Also, vet is actually a really hard role to cc. Yes, 2 vets would be odd. But it's not in any way close to confirmed. It's unlikely Harkon is mafia. But if he is, then the vet claim is a great play because it's non-confirmable and actually hard to counter. Hell even a PGO or something would have a hard time claiming against him. I was actually mulling over this. It's actually a pretty good play by mafia to claim vet. If the claim goes un-CC'ed then he's pretty much gained town-cred until LYLO. It's not an impossible world, but i dont have harkon pinned as particularly scummy at this point. For now there's other people i'd want to lynch before considering this possibility. | ||
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On July 11 2015 22:59 Harkon wrote: No, it is not actually a good play as mafia. There is NOTHING to gain from it besides making sure damdred dies and if I survive multiple nights people will get mad suspicious of me. Absolutely no reason to do it. Everyone was townreading me anyways I do not need towncred if I am mafia. It actually hurts instead of helping. Mm. I see what you're saying. I think quality of that play depends on how good your town status is. The more scumread you are the better the play, I'd say. From the position you were in, I can agree it's probably not such a good play. | ||
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On July 11 2015 23:01 marvellosity wrote: yes Harkon is right. ruxaorara's points on milo were a bit better though. it's all kinda weird. I swear if I get a gun, I'm going to shoot you 100%. | ||
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Like, it's not hard to get my name right. Either you type ruxxar or you can type ruxx. You know that a persons name is their most precious belonging? q.q /endrant | ||
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On July 11 2015 23:11 marvellosity wrote: you do realise it's this reaction that makes me keep doing it, yes? Oh right, I forgot you were 12 -_-. | ||
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I like statistics and I don't like to make low percentage plays. | ||
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On July 11 2015 23:35 rsoultin wrote: \o/ i'm out for a bit btw ruxx, you no longer care about asking me the same question over and over, or did you finally actually read what i've been saying all along? xP I've just come to terms with that I won't get a clear answer out of you regarding trfel. Sorry, no offense. | ||
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On July 11 2015 23:43 rsoultin wrote: not offended what don't you understand, though? i thought i explained it pretty damn clearly, frankly I expressed my thoughts in this post I don't understand the motivation for disrupting people trying to question Trfel. I understand that HF probably was a bit mean, but you should let the mod handle that. You're not Trfel's mommy. He can take care of himself. | ||
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On July 11 2015 23:49 rsoultin wrote: demonstrate where i disrupted people trying to question trfel, because i didn't xP This post: On July 08 2015 08:50 ruXxar wrote: I read your interaction just fine. Let me recap my view of it, just so you can correct me if I'm missing something. 1st interaction: Starts here Recap: HF: "Trfel you are playing like burnt out mafia" RS: "I don't think he is, but I'll find out soon for sure" HF: "I don't need your opinion RS" RS: "Trfel is town, your reads are wrong!". HF: "I don't need you go away". Mod: Interrupts. 2nd interaction: Starts here Recap: HF: "I wanted to force Trfel to present his argument in a logical manner" RS: "HF is misrepresenting me and being a dick, I don't mind if you question Trfel" HF: (Posts quotes where you disrupted him from questioning) RS: "You were trying to shit on me!" HF: "I don't deny being a dick, but I was trying to pressure trfel to gain information" RS: "Stop questioning him so early! Let's talk about something else" (topic changed) 3rd interaction: Starts here Recap: HF: "Trfel there's an inconsistency in your read on LS, explain why". RS: "HF, you can't read!" RS: "I want to let trfel answer for himself, but you guys are too stupid!" HF: "How is that not reading?" RS: "Trfel already explained it!" HF: "Explained it how?" RS: "HTS saw the questioning, why don't you get it?" HF: "How does that explain him changing his stance?" RS: "You are stupid HF!" (Shitfight ensues, questioning derailed) It's all pretty obvious disruption from my point of view. Once again you're derailing. I'm not going away anytime soon. | ||
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On July 11 2015 23:53 Vivax wrote: Besides if that's so relevant to you, you might as well rather talk about Trfel being mafia and why I want to talk to trfel, but he's seemingly gone underground hiding somewhere. I haven't seen him in forever. I mean, he basically asked for people to talk to him, yet he's never here. On July 10 2015 14:23 Trfel wrote: It turns out you answered it like 3 posts above, so... I've tried to talk to people a few times, but no one seems to want to talk to me at all. And I can't blame them, I don't really know anything XD I think I'm happy with a Damdred lynch today, and I'm comfortable with the associative milo109 scumread, and still scumreading Holyflare. | ||
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On July 11 2015 23:54 Harkon wrote: Why are you discussing this shit again? Does anyone think it will be more productive than the last 10 times? That's why I said I'd come to terms with not getting a clear answer. I don't want to shit up the thread again. | ||
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On July 11 2015 23:55 rsoultin wrote: i am not going to go line-by-line with this post and actually point out all the things you're misrepresenting or leaving out, ruxxar. it's not worth my time, and it insults your intelligence i want you to quote actual posts where i was actively disrupting people getting a read on trfel not repost a made-up dialogue That dialogue is based on real quotes. I can post the quotes I made the recap from instead if that makes you happy. | ||
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On July 11 2015 23:59 rsoultin wrote: if you can keep a straight head i can? marv's right. i think you're scum right now because of how you've approached me. but maybe i'm just not seeing what you're getting at? so i want you to explain to me which posts made you think i was disrupting people from getting reads on trfel This is what I'll do. Since you think the paraphrasing is misrepresenting what you did, I'll just put together the quotes instead. Give me some time. | ||
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On July 12 2015 00:13 rsoultin wrote: ...i get the feeling i'm about to see a spoiler full of about 10 pages worth of quotes lol >< That's not what I'm putting together. I'm putting together the quotes I based my paraphrasing on, which you said was incorrect and misrepresenting you. | ||
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On July 12 2015 00:20 rsoultin wrote: that's pointless because part of the problem, ruxxar, is you're omitting chunks of the exchange in your "paraphrase" anyway just explain to me what your problem is? it shouldn't be hard to explain when you've been pushing it this long Really? After you said this: On July 08 2015 07:52 rsoultin wrote: do you even begin to realize how difficult it is for me to even bother finish reading this pile of shit when it's clear you didn't bother to actually READ our interaction? go away, or actually fact check your own fucking claims i've answered all your leading questions already i've formed my judgment on truffle and until i actually see anything to indicate otherwise, you can bite me i was right on gb. i was right on damdy. i was right on bugs. i was right on hf. i was right on you. and i was right on wave and oats. but instead of CONSIDERING after seeing my play last game and losing the game while ignoring my advice in your newbie, that i might actually have a good fucking toneread on truffle you try to paint it as me denying information? lol >< And this: On July 08 2015 09:57 rsoultin wrote: just because you paraphrase it this way doesn't make it correct ^^ why don't you talk to me about your other reads instead of trying to convince me i'm scum? you're clearly not attempting to determine my alignment at all with the bias-laden wording in your posts On July 08 2015 13:28 rsoultin wrote: lol you're never lynching me off a faulty paraphrase, pup, and i don't feel the need to "correct" what is clearly visible just reading the posts i asked you what other reads you had an exercise! \o/ you treat me like you're reading me town and i'll treat you like i'm reading you town, even if i don't much believe it...this tunnel of yours is at best wrong and at worst scummy, so give me something else to read you off if you're actually town I'm going to show that my paraphrasing is correct, because you were trying to discredit me for mis-representing you. Anyway, back to it. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + I read your interaction just fine. Let me recap my view of it, just so you can correct me if I'm missing something. 1st interaction: Starts here Recap: HF: "Trfel you are playing like burnt out mafia" RS: "I don't think he is, but I'll find out soon for sure" HF: "I don't need your opinion RS" RS: "Trfel is town, your reads are wrong!". HF: "I don't need you go away". Mod: Interrupts. 2nd interaction: Starts here Recap: HF: "I wanted to force Trfel to present his argument in a logical manner" RS: "HF is misrepresenting me and being a dick, I don't mind if you question Trfel" HF: (Posts quotes where you disrupted him from questioning) RS: "You were trying to shit on me!" HF: "I don't deny being a dick, but I was trying to pressure trfel to gain information" RS: "Stop questioning him so early! Let's talk about something else" (topic changed) 3rd interaction: Starts here Recap: HF: "Trfel there's an inconsistency in your read on LS, explain why". RS: "HF, you can't read!" RS: "I want to let trfel answer for himself, but you guys are too stupid!" HF: "How is that not reading?" RS: "Trfel already explained it!" HF: "Explained it how?" RS: "HTS saw the questioning, why don't you get it?" HF: "How does that explain him changing his stance?" RS: "You are stupid HF!" (Shitfight ensues, questioning derailed) It's all pretty obvious disruption from my point of view. Once again you're derailing. I'm not going away anytime soon. Interaction one: + Show Spoiler + On July 06 2015 15:22 Holyflare wrote: It seems you are suffering from consecutivemafiarollingitis and are subsequently burnt out. I am sorry for your loss. On July 06 2015 15:25 rsoultin wrote: heh, doubt it xP but i'll be more sure soon enough On July 06 2015 16:31 rsoultin wrote: lol wow you really don't get it, do you? truffle is fully capable of making shit up from a filter...as i understand it, that's how he was so successful his last scum game xP it's actually a fucking towntell for him to be taking his time to actually read through the thread instead of just throwing shit out there but keep barking about it On July 06 2015 16:39 rsoultin wrote: ^^ i understand what you're trying to push. i'm saying it's nai for truffle at best, that you're conveniently only focusing on his best qualities (that he's proven he's capable of replicating as scum anyway, so lol ><) and yes, i'm damn good at tonereading this kid. because i actually talk to him and KNOW him outside of these mafia games, which is definitely more than can be said for you On July 06 2015 16:40 Holyflare wrote: Yes go away then thanks. On July 06 2015 16:45 Blazinghand wrote: I haven't seen anything over the line yet, but I can taste the direction of the wind so I'd like to remind players that I am arbitrarily and unreasonably strict about behavior guidelines. I am more aggressive than most hosts about these things, and so to be safe you better just all play nice. This is not a warning. Interaction two: + Show Spoiler + On July 07 2015 02:36 Holyflare wrote: No it's not like that at all. Trfel is a consistently logical and well thought out player that posts a lot of what he thinks and is very opinionated ALWAYS. You can't possibly find a game in the database where he has ever opened like this at all. It doesn't exist. I have also played as mafia and try harded enough to experience the burnt out effect of mafiarollingitis. This looks like classic burnt out mafia rolling mafia again. That's not even the whole thing. You can see when he does actually try and start to contribute his posts ask circular questions that never meant to receive an answer that makes sense: It's not a thought process, it's literal questions for the sake of asking questions. On July 07 2015 02:39 Holyflare wrote: If by forcing you to read him one way or another you mean presenting logical and well thought out facts that counter your made up heresay facts from carol that ended up not even being true then sure. On July 07 2015 02:40 rsoultin wrote: "you're 100% scum no matter what you do hahaha" "shut up bitch stop interfering with my quizzing" not only was that blatant misrepresentation of what i was doing, but it started with me saying this? like, seriously? pretty damn obvious to anyone with a brain that all i was saying there was i didn't agree, and he comes back with: so not only is hf misrepresenting me, but he's going out of his way to be a dick about it at the same time, and if this is his idea of just "pressuring" or "quizzing" someone, it's sure not coming through in his posts i'm not usually this fucking paranoid, but after last game when hf and bugs spent d1/n1 deliberately shitting on me and trying to throw me on tilt...especially with how well we usually get along when he's town, i highly doubt this is town hf and i really don't care if the rest of you are too chicken shit to push him i'm tired of getting nkd and watching hf win again and again has trfel posted anything amazing? no. does that make him scum? no. i read him by his off-brand of humor and a few other indicators...i usually get a solid read on him within his first page of filter. i'm good at it. i don't give a damn if you question him, but hell if you're going to bully me into shutting up by slinging shit at me, hf On July 07 2015 02:42 Holyflare wrote: it's also pretty convenient you miss out these posts in your crappy narrative: On July 07 2015 02:44 rsoultin wrote: after you started shitting on me and trying to make it look like nothing i said was worth anything On July 07 2015 02:56 Holyflare wrote: I'm not sure how my posts in between are relevant at all since i'm not defending the stance that I was a dick. I'm saying I had a purpose and you repeatedly spewed tmi or an inability to see the direction of where things were going. If your read is null and someone is pushing something then I have no idea why you'd go in the opposite direction and defend them when your read is null. On July 07 2015 03:02 rsoultin wrote: lol >< and you started in on him before he'd even gotten a chance to settle in? of course he eventually did stuff, and i fully expect him to again this game talk about something else we're never going to agree on this Interaction three: + Show Spoiler + On July 07 2015 08:46 Holyflare wrote: nothing about LS has even changed inbetween On July 07 2015 08:52 rsoultin wrote: -twitches- i'm trying to let truffle answer for himself but the level of stupid/lack of basic reading comprehension -_- i'm just gonna go do my chem work On July 07 2015 09:01 rsoultin wrote: hts saw the questioning why are you so blind, hf? On July 07 2015 09:03 Holyflare wrote: QUESTIONING QUESTIONING what in his answers lead to him reversing his earlier stance why is he asking lightningstrike questions when he had the stance of not wanting to lynch him none of those are answers On July 07 2015 09:07 rsoultin wrote: -_- i have nothing productive to say to you if you can't connect that something in the response to those questions prompted that comment, whatever. at least acknowledge that the REAL problem is truffle isn't explaining where his head's at instead of trying to sell that his read changed for NO REASON with NO PROMPTING like seriously. the last time you pulled this shit it was with gb and claiming that the only reason he had to scumread...i don't even remember who it was anymore lol bf?...was because of one post simply because you arbitrarily decided to throw out the other reasons out before i start fighting with you again -_- At this point shitfighting begins There's more inbetween there, but this is the essence of it. This is what I view as disruption/deflection off trfel. I want to know why you did this. Not why you think trfel is town, but why you won't let HF push on him. | ||
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I might attribute it to just being a thing between you and HF that just sparks into a shitfight, but in my eyes it still looks anti-town and scummy. | ||
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On July 12 2015 01:10 rsoultin wrote: and the third was because truffle had said he was about to post a case, and i told him to read for that reason... so like...how was i being obstructive? (i kinda did explain all of this already in that big post, ruxx -_-) like is there a misunderstanding somewhere or what? Well, when you start calling out people for not understanding something, that's pretty much inviting them into a shitfight, which will derail their attention from what they were actually trying to accomplish. It also let's pressure off trfel since he doesn't feel the need to answer the question when he's busy with you. | ||
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On July 12 2015 01:14 marvellosity wrote: just to clarify - are you able to make the distinction between anti-town and scummy? townies do bad shit and anti-town shit ALL the time. rsoultin is known to be pretty argumentative at the best of times I'd say a good example of anti-town is LS outing his blue roles. But since he's known to do that in his meta, it can't be viewed as directly scummy. I tried to come up with some reasons for what rsoultin was doing, and I came up with these: 1 rsoul is town, she and trfel are such close friends that she feels the need to defend him. She thinks her reads on him are correct and that his alignment should not be determined further.(anti-town) 2 rsoul is mafia defending/deflecting off town trfel because she is certain of his alignment and she knows he's an easy target. If he flips she will look good for defending him.(scummy) 3 rsoul is mafia together with trfel and deflecting off her partner .(scummy) | ||
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On July 12 2015 01:19 Harkon wrote: So what exactly are you saying? Rsoultin is scum with Trfel? I think either she's scum alone or she's scum with trfel. I read them both as scummy independently of each other. | ||
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On July 12 2015 01:32 rsoultin wrote: oh didn't see that first comment why is ls cleared for his meta but meta you witnessed in our last game...me being stubborn on tonereads...not apply to this one? i know i've asked this before like you literally could have said the same thing about me and gb if gb wasn't actually the cop that game. or me and damdred It's not the fact that you're have a tone read on Trfel, but the fact that you were actively deflecting pressure off him. | ||
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There's multiple things in your play that I didn't like, which I've pointed out before. | ||
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I'll be back before EON. | ||
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I'll take the hit for my mafia partner. | ||
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On July 12 2015 06:10 milo109 wrote: Hello friends Hello friend. We need to talk. Mind answering my questions from earlier? @milo: can you talk a little bit more about the fake red check, the plan behind it, what you gained from and why you rescinded so early. I have some follow up questions after that. | ||
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How can you hurt something so cute like me? <3 | ||
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Stare deep into my eyes and see my pure and innocent soul | ||
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On July 12 2015 06:25 milo109 wrote: I did it because it seemed cool, I gained scum reads on clarity and HF, and I rescinded because Harkon scared me. What made you scum read clarity and HF from their reaction? | ||
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On July 12 2015 06:31 milo109 wrote: I've answered that question earlier. I'm not rewriting it on my phone. I can't find it in your filter. Can you help me out a little? | ||
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You scum read HF for siding with you and wanting to lynch your red-check? I also don't see a scum read on clarity in there. | ||
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On July 12 2015 07:58 LightningStrike wrote: Anyone here want to talk about Day 4 lynches? What are your thoughts? You want to lynch HF? | ||
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On July 12 2015 08:16 LightningStrike wrote: Yes I want to lynch HF Day 4 if I alive by that point. Any people you want to lynch Day 4? Rsoul, Vivax, Trfel. | ||
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What do you think about Trfel? Do you have a meta read on him? Have you ever seen him play like this before? | ||
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On July 12 2015 08:24 LightningStrike wrote: Can you explain why you would lynch those people Day 4? Trfel: lack of interest / contribution. I know he's capable of so much more than this. Rsoultin: overly defensive tone at the start, the whole "xP" thing seemed fabricated to defuse tension around her opinions. Unable to answer a question that had a yes / no answer and give clear answers in general. Disuption of trfel questioning, and her reaction to my case against her was just way over the top of what I think a normal innocent town reaction would be like. Vivax: Didn't like his tunnel on geript. His first big post was made up discredit geript and he's been tunneling geript throughout calling him "liar" without substance. Seemed disappointed he missed out on sheeping HF in a push on trfel. That's pretty much the short of it. | ||
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He needs to do something soon. | ||
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On July 12 2015 09:06 Oatsmaster wrote: Yeah, why does WoS not posting make him mafia? ##vote milo He needs to do something so I can discern his alignment. | ||
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On July 12 2015 09:35 Oatsmaster wrote: Why do you need him to do something soon? There are still 4 mafia alive, even if wave is mafia, there are still 3 others. 1) If he's town he should help us win by hunting mafia 2) He could be mafia. I don't want to end up in LYLO with someone who hasn't done anything all game. What am I gonna do with him then? | ||
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On July 12 2015 08:25 LightningStrike wrote: I had seen afkish before as town it seems weird but rsoul can read him well and I will trust her read on him. That's not good enough LS. You can't trust rsoultins opinion, she could be mafia. I want your opinion on trfel: Town or mafia? | ||
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On July 12 2015 10:12 LightningStrike wrote: I think rsoultin is town. Tfrel most likely town? I just wish he was more active but last day phase it been mainly us just lynching damdred with a check the tracker. Yeah I can understand how you feel less incentive to participate when the lynches seem lined up, but someone mentioned that it's the perfect opportunity for the scum to hide inside the lurkers, which I don't think is bad logic. | ||
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On July 12 2015 10:03 Oatsmaster wrote: Why are you only commenting on wave as people who have done nnothing? What about ebh? Or scott. I'm scared of EBH, from the way he posts he seems like a smart player. I didn't like his opening post with the blue hunting. Since then though he's been making ok posts with reasoning behind them. I can understand how his logic is flowing so that's good. I really liked how when I asked him a question, he actually re-evaluated his stance and was willing to admit he was wrong in a way that didn't seem overly defensive. I'd say he's a slight townlean for now. Scott is well... I feel like a lot of his content is useless. It's just fluff and list-posts. He's not really pushing anyone or trying to figure out the game really. I wouldn't be sad to see him lynched. Slight scumlean atm. | ||
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On July 12 2015 10:22 LightningStrike wrote: Not exactly bad logic but as you saw in our last game together HF was the most active person alive that game yet he was scum. You were semi active in that game too ye you were scum. Sometimes the big posters are indeed scum. That's true, but I would think that HF is the exception rather than the rule. In general it's harder to keep a natural flow as scum. It's also harder to give opinions on people because you have to make up "fake" evaluations of people when you already know their alignment. Those evaluations also have to evolve as the game progresses. It's easy to fall into a lull of "I don't need to pay attention to people" as mafia, because you already know their alignment. There's no thrill there in figuring them out. As such when you give opinions on people you usually do it more from their filter and try to craft a case in a sort of artificial robitic way. A town player will have paid attention to the context of people's statements and will generally evaluate more based on feelings rather than facts. That's what I do when I play anyway. | ||
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Two days in a row now with lynches lined up. Motivation is dipping slightly. | ||
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Give me something to work with. Top scum / town atm? | ||
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On July 12 2015 23:18 LightningStrike wrote: She had claimed Miller and I think she's town outside of the Miller claim and Millers are Townies who turn up as red to Cop checks. BTW none one else claimed Miller lol. There might not even be a miller in the game. | ||
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On July 12 2015 23:49 XEliteBlueHunter69X wrote: then lynch me so I dont have to read any more of this dribble, cya. Come on, really? This is such a terrible thing to say if you're town. Why don't you want to play the game? | ||
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On July 12 2015 23:49 XEliteBlueHunter69X wrote: then lynch me so I dont have to read any more of this dribble, cya. You seem like a smart person who can put together coherent thoughts. If you just ignore HF/Rsoul for a while, what are your thoughts on the rest of the game? Your latest scumlist had these people on it: On July 11 2015 00:21 XEliteBlueHunter69X wrote: sure I can give a basic list of updated scumreads. Damdred milo meapak trfel Kelsier obi in order of sureness. Breshke would be right under that at my most scummy null but I dropped off him a bit. Has anything changed there? How about town reads? | ||
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On July 13 2015 01:17 milo109 wrote: HF is trying to get plausible deniability for when I flip town. Do not listen to anyone who defends me today later on in the game. This is a really strange post. Why does mafia say this? | ||
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On July 13 2015 04:21 milo109 wrote: Nope. Sounds like mafia giving up to me. | ||
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On July 13 2015 05:17 milo109 wrote: I'm not going to. I will be lynched anyway, I should be lynched anyway. Let's focus on who town should think about tomorrow. With this attitude you will be for sure. I hate the martyr charade. | ||
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On July 13 2015 05:24 milo109 wrote: What if it isn't a charade O.o what if this is reality? Then i want you to fight for your life, and not give up. In my newbie game there were several townies that had big vote trains going against them that it looked grim for. Some of them managed to live, some didn't. Guess who lived? The townies that actually put in an effort to defend themselves. If you are town you are going directly against your win condition by giving up. I do not want to mislynch town if i can help it. If you are on our side, then put in some effort and answer the questions. And even if you get lynched still, you at least leave a legacy behind. You haven't lost the game just because you died. If you are town then you win with us whether you live or die. | ||
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I like what he's done so far. He's pretty towny to me. I would give you the finer points but I'm on my phone so meh. | ||
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These are the people that I feel have been invisible enough to be in that group. Trfel Wave Scott Kelsier Breshke Obi EBH What's common for all of them is that they never really got into any heavy confrontations that I can remember where they had to defend or push their view. It's easy for mafia to sit back and soft push people, throwing out names and accusations etc without really trying to push their view onto other people or fight back when they get confronted with their views. Coupled with low activity and little interest in playing as mafia I feel like there should definitely be at least 1 mafia here if not 2 or more. Of the people on that list I like EBH and Obi the most, mostly due to the interaction I've had with them. That's not a very strong point though. The rest are meh tier. | ||
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On July 13 2015 21:51 Half the Sky wrote: ruXxar, Trfel wa getting pretty hard pushed by people at points and he then pushed back against Holyflare, although at somewhat random times. What do you make of that? Wave/Scott/EBH have been thrown around for a while, right... Most veterans find Breshke easy enough to read tbh, the general sentiment amongst most that knew him was town. You might want to try and look at his filter. Or did you read it and were you not impressed? Trfel was getting pushed, but that's why I'm so frustrated over rsoultin because I wanted to see the outcome of the HF push on him, yet it just fizzled out. I wouldn't say that he's really pushed on HF. He made a case on him and never defended it from anything or answered questions related to it. There's basically no interaction going on with him. Making static posts and not interacting is pretty scummy in my eyes. For breshke, first of all he's been pretty much invisible to me. Second off, I like to form my own reads on people. I find the whole going into peoples other games and reading what they do and look at meta to be a tedious and boring way to play this game. I know there's value in it, but I don't like to do it myself unless I have a very strong point to make. So when I make reads on people it's either based on my own experience playing with them in previous games, or mostly just looking at how they play in the current game. After a quick skim of his filter, I get a more towny vibe off him. Seems inquisitive and curious. I like that. However, I don't feel like he's really trying to push his own reads. A bit too many questions and not enough work on his own for my liking. I liked his bout with EBH, so that's a slight plus. | ||
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I need learn to draw like this. Where do I sign up for lessons? | ||
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I get so damn enyvous every time I see people drawing amazing stuff with just a pencil. I'm like I WANT THAT, then I pick up a book and start drawing a turd. After 10 minutes I'm like fuck that, too much effort. I was recently at a job interview for my current job where they asked me to draw 4 things in my life that was important to me. I was stressed out since my drawing is terrible. They came in and I just saw them with a big grin on their faces miring my stick man drawings. I suppressed the embarrassment like a boss though and got the job. | ||
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On July 13 2015 22:53 Harkon wrote: That's the most beautiful peace of art I have ever seen. But who are LIAR, SEOTT and Brwl? ^_^ There's 3 circles... HL3 confirmed. | ||
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On July 13 2015 22:59 marvellosity wrote: hahaha. that story was surprisingly good. Art was my solid "D" subject while I had to take it at school. "Andrew, it looks like you drew that outside the classroom just now!" "uh......" Yeah, I was never any good at arts and crafts. I liked the practical aspect of it, when we were doing woodwork n stuff that was pretty fun. The artistic side of it was not my thing at all. Doesn't help that drawing was considered the most girly thing you could do either, and you basically shot your own coolness factor out the window if you tried to draw anything. I remember a lot of my classmastes refusing to draw anything since they were shit at it. Great logic right? I'm shit at drawing so I'm not gonna learn drawing by drawing LOL. | ||
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On July 13 2015 23:08 marvellosity wrote: i was terrible at woodwork/making things as well. Art and that were my 2 shit subjects. i had no concern about being "cool", thankfully. My tongue was acidic enough and i was strong enough that i didn't get bullied, and i could just be friends with who i wanted. *queue sad violin* | ||
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After that people stopped caring what you did for the most part. | ||
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On July 13 2015 23:14 Clarity_nl wrote: One day he's going to flip out, and I will be safe because his name is ruXxar. Never lynching this guy. <3 | ||
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In general I find HF hard to read, he doesn't conform to the stereotypic mafia player. There are however small nuances that I think makes him town this game, compared to last game. 1) He's actually pushing logical targets. I find myself agreeing with a lot of his reasoning, as compared to just trying to tunnel people to death with weak arguments and a play on emotions. Last game he tried to lynch people by ridiculing them and their arguments and being over the top and shouting at them. Blowing things out of proportions and trying to make them look stupid. I'm seeing a relatively more "calm" and reasoning HF this game. More serious and down to business. 2) He's more wishy washy. This doesn't mean that he IS wishy washy in a general sense, but in a relative sense compared to last game. Especially the night when were lynched BM he seemed a bit all over the place, uncertain where to go. You see that he sometimes have a hard time picking a target to lynch, I can relate to that very well. That isn't the scum HF I played with last game. He mainly picked one target and stuck with it, and didn't waver much. 3) He's re-evaluating his stance. You can see multiple times throughout the game that he's re-evaluating his stance on people. This is apparent in how he's re-evaluating his stance on both trfel, hts, milo and others continuously, jumping from towny to scummy based on their actions/reactions. That's my opinion on HF so far this game, I don't agree that shooting him is a good idea. If anything, shoot Rsoul. | ||
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On July 14 2015 01:48 Harkon wrote: Sorry, but this is exactly what he has been doing this game too. Don't like this post in general. No, what he's doing here is different: 1) Less incessant and cursing. 2) Less direct attacks on person and more attacks on the arguments. 3) Capslock factor is down. Also, what don't you like, the post or the arguments? I'm open for discussion if you perceive it differently. | ||
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On July 14 2015 02:41 Holyflare wrote: Hm the more i think about trfel the more it's obvious he hasn't read a thing past the first half of d1 This is what I also noticed when he made the first big case against you, in general he just seems disinterested and not following the thread. | ||
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On July 14 2015 02:45 WaveofShadow wrote: If you guys eventually decide to lynch me go ahead. I started out this game generally not caring but now it's gone sort of beyond that, whatever that is. Not gonna make any excuses. For what it's worth I'm sorry. Might as well just get modkilled then? | ||
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It's hard to determine milo's alignment when he isn't even willing to defend himself or participate in answering questions. | ||
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Let's assume that you are the cop. Here's some of the things I want from you: A recap of your play throughout the game. A summary of your strongest scum / townreads throughout the game, how they came to be, how they changed and why. Discussion of the controversial points brought up against you. It might not prevent your lynch but it's better than doing nothing. If you're mafia then don't bother I suppose. | ||
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On July 14 2015 05:26 Trfel wrote: Hopefully milo109 is scum, I guess... Trfel please stop. What's going on?! Please give me back the trfel I know. I don't know who this person is but it's definitely not trfel. | ||
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On July 14 2015 02:50 ruXxar wrote: No, what he's doing here is different: 1) Less incessant and cursing. 2) Less direct attacks on person and more attacks on the arguments. 3) Capslock factor is down. Also, what don't you like, the post or the arguments? I'm open for discussion if you perceive it differently. | ||
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On July 14 2015 06:32 rsoultin wrote: lol >< i forgot ruxx made that post hf isn't a nasty shit though! i mean...not quite as nasty! okay, ruxx. okay xP i swam again today ^^ I'm not saying he did a 360 backflip and changed his behavior completely and became an angel from heaven. I'm saying there's a difference in how he expresses himself and acts in this game as compared to the last one. | ||
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I wish you had tried harder. | ||
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On July 14 2015 07:03 LightningStrike wrote: Oh goody we got JAT! Okay so Milo wasn't lying afterall about being roleblocked. There must be another strong role for town. Okay Who I gave the gun to: Shoot HF. How about no? | ||
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Just because milo was town doesn't mean we should automatically go about killing people on his lynch list. He barely put in any effort, so I doubt he actually had that good reads on people. Shooting HF is a terrible idea. If HF is mafia we can deal with him later. It's better to shoot some of the question marks that aren't going to contribute anyway. Trfel, scott, wave or perhaps kelsier would be excellent targets imo.. | ||
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And then harkon + 1 other strong town gets shot tonight. Who is left to lead town then? It'll be lurk city until the end. When the strong town players disappear, the mafia come out of the woodwork and start misguiding people. It's true, HF is basically living on borrowed time. If we get to LYLO and he still is alive he's pretty much an auto lynch. Until then however, we can't go off killing potentially strong town players just because they might be mafia, when they haven't even played particularly scummy. Give it a couple days and if HF haven't been NK'd by then we can consider lynching him. | ||
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On July 14 2015 07:50 Breshke wrote: You forgot me HF Ruxxar you townread HF right? Correct. | ||
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My would not lynch list atm is : + Show Spoiler + Harkon Marv LS Oats HTS Holyflare Clarity is pretty close to being on there too. | ||
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On July 14 2015 09:19 KelsierSC wrote: Hf and boxer feel like town to me i wouldnt lynch them i'd look at scott, trefl and WoS tomorrow or a vigi shot You read the game in 10 minutes? | ||
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On July 14 2015 09:19 KelsierSC wrote: Hf and boxer feel like town to me i wouldnt lynch them i'd look at scott, trefl and WoS tomorrow or a vigi shot Can you qualify your reads? | ||
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On July 14 2015 09:44 Trfel wrote: Adding ruXxar to the scum pool. + Show Spoiler [Reasons, if you're interested in…] + He scumread me (Trfel) without explaining his reasoning. He seemed to really want to lynch me (enough to repeat himself without prompting about it), but not enough to clearly state why, for people who hadn't read Student Mafia 11. Furthermore, his scumread on me was posted well after my opening post, and his vote was made even after that. This doesn't feel like a town mindset. The first main push in the thread was Damdred's push on LightningStrike. RuXxar was one of the people who didn't say anything about the push. However, a few pages later, RuXxar seemed accepting of the push (asked LightningStrike what he was trying to say with his list of scott31337's games). He didn't mention LightningStrike again for a while, though. His interest in LightningStrike doesn't feel very high at all, which is strange, especially since he townread Damdred. If he didn't like the push, he should have said so; as it is, he gave himself room to jump on it later, while largely avoiding it. His townread of Damdred and scott31337 seems to be for a trap, which made no sense whatsoever. Making a post that contains no relevant information or reads generally isn't a reason for someone to be town. RuXxar switching his main scumread from me to Clarity_nl has several problems. First, it shows he wasn't really reading the game clearly, or he would have thought of this at the start, not only when someone mentioned something that had been said many times already. Second, why did he scumread and vote Clarity_nl and completely ignore Holyflare, while scumreading Clarity_nl for an association with Holyflare early on? His interest in Holyflare is nonexistant. Then, instead of discussing his scumreads, he just says that everyone questioning or being suspicious of Clarity_nl is towny. Yes, this is different from how he played last game (as mafia). But it's also very different from how he played as town. Having done well as scum last game, I can see him excited to play scum again (especially if it's with Holyflare again, as I suspect). And his early play is very, very hard to see from a town perspective, while the mafia motivation seems clear. 1) I scum read you at the start for 2 reasons : - Your comments were pointless and contributed nothing. I gained a lot of respect for you after the newbie game and expected a lot more. - You were evasive when asked for your opinion. 2) I did not try to interject on damdreds push because I wanted to see what information could be gained from it. 3) The #battrap comment to damdred and scott was an inside joke from our newbie game(you were there). 4) Ok, here's my reasonining around clarity: At first I had the thought that she was mafia with HF, because her comments on HF seemed pre-planned. Then at a later point a thought struck me that she could actually be masoned with HF. When clarity said "Do not lynch me and HF today" I thought she strongly alluded to them being masoned together. I decided to give her time. This is also why I asked her a few times how she would feel if HF got lynched / died. | ||
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On July 14 2015 10:47 Breshke wrote: I actually think ruxxar could be mafia aswell trefel. Something about him always coming to HF's defense when he fake matrys jsut doesn't sit right with me. He doesn't have the fear in him that HF is mafia. I also have a problem with him talking about "lynch him later lynch him at lylo." As he already complained about the amount of lurkers in the game and it would just be the same situation he himself and HF took advantage of last game where they could easily steer the thread because they were some of the msot active. Basically I don't think ruxxar is showing that townie paranoia and is too sure of his HF read especially when thread eladers like harkon and marv are unsure/flipfloppy on hf's allighnment I gave my reasons for my HF town-read here I feel fairly confident in my read as I was mafia with him last game and I paid very close attention to what he said and how he said it. | ||
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On July 14 2015 11:49 rsoultin wrote: lol i'm aware of that, ows...and there are people in this game legitimately decent (at least above average for this general group of players) at reading hf. i'm one of them and i'm not certain. neither are others like, it's not so much the hard townread as it is the hard townread from the start with no questioning it I did not have a hard town read on HF early on. HF is a person where I can't pick out a single statement and say "aha, this is mafiaesque". When I judge HF it's based on his tendencies over a longer span of time. I also got my first townread read on HF from the dispute between the two of you where I could easily associate with the motivation behind his questioning of trfel, and thought it made sense from a town perspective to push on trfel there. The first time I put HF in my current towncircle is here, on page 234. | ||
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On July 14 2015 12:23 rsoultin wrote: explain your thought process at EoD1, ruxx Are you refering to the voting between MZ and BM? | ||
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On July 14 2015 12:23 rsoultin wrote: explain your thought process at EoD1, ruxx So here's my thought process around majority lynching: We do not win as town by not lynching. If you do not lynch people, you can not win the game. It's that simple. My #1 priority every day is to make sure that we lynch someone. The only thing I am 100% certain of this game is that I'm town. If the option is between lynching someone who in my mind is 70% town or not lynching at all, then I'd rather lynch the guy that is 70% town. As for the case between BM and MZ, it didn't really have an opinion either way. BM hadn't said anything and MZ started talking too late for me to form a solid opinion on him. Both were acceptable lynches in my mind. | ||
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On July 14 2015 13:18 rsoultin wrote: it bugged me then and it still bugs me now that you were making so much damn noise while doing nothing about it and essentially disappearing during the shenanigans. admittedly it means less knowing that both were town, but it still feels like you were just saying something because you felt you needed to say something anyway, i'm out, guys. someone look at this and tell me if i'm tunneling or not, because this is what caught my eye (along with that stiff tone thing that i mentioned earler lol >< but i don't know how to really show that) when reviewing ruxx's filter Do you call that one comment noise? Also, I was not constantly refreshing the vote thread checking the vote count. Either way the day 1 lynch was a terrible mess. I hope we don't wait until the last 30 minutes again to pick our lynch target because such chaos undeniably increases the chance of scum snap pushing mis lynches. | ||
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On July 14 2015 14:54 Trfel wrote: Does no one else understand it? RuXxar changed his top scumread from me (which he was pretty confident in) to Clarity_nl on the basis that Clarity_nl's opening post about Holyflare being town and them not being scum together looked planned ahead of time. Thus, they both have to be scum. This is the only reason for his scumread on Clarity_nl. But, ruXxar wasn't scumreading Holyflare, and didn't seem at all interested in Holyflare's alignment. He only asked Holyflare one question and didn't state any read on him. But ruXxar's top scum read, Clarity_nl, who he was voting, only applied as long as Holyflare was also scum. I have a ton of trouble seeing this come from town. Even if Holyflare is town. Here's my voting pattern start of day 1 : Trfel -> Clarity -> Trfel Here's a summary of my scum-reading logic for those votes: The first vote on trfel was meh. I was in a jokey mood and saw him make the same opening post video as in the newbie game. Put my vote on him for the moment. I read clarity's opening post and get a bit suspicious. When clarity uses the "if I was mafia" excuse I thought that it sounded like she had this planned out even more. Switched my vote to clarity. It's possible she's scum with HF, but she was the one acting scummy independently of HF, so I focus on her first. I see trfel making his first big post, which I thought looked a bit forced, I didn't like it. A little later I'm getting this idea that clarity and HF could possibly be masoned together, willing to give her more time. I change my vote back to trfel, since he still hasn't made any contributions that I liked. It's incorrect to say that my scum-read on clarity only applied as long as HF is scum. I scum-read her because her excuse sounded pre-planned. Her actions were scummy on their own and didn't necessitate HF also being scum. I saw 2 options : - She's mafia alone or possibly mafia with HF. - She's masoned with HF. | ||
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On July 14 2015 22:05 Clarity_nl wrote: I AM A MAN!!!!! teehee I can't help myself :p | ||
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On July 14 2015 17:35 Trfel wrote: As of page 45 in the thread, ruXxar is suspicious of everyone who has been seriously scumread: Trfel, Clarity_nl, WaveofShadow, and ritoky. He also made a post earlier that seemed to accept the LightningStrike scumread, though he never mentioned LightningStrike since. Basically every single lynch candidate at this point. I find it especially funny that he left ritoky off of his scum list and then added him at marvellosity's suggestion. And the way that he immediately showed interest in KelsierSC's "xP" analysis on rsoultin, but didn't really commit to scumreading rsoultin. His earlier townread on rsoultin doesn't seem to have been considered. This seems very suspicious by itself, but when compared to his play in Student Mafia 11, it is even worse. RuXxar was far more willing to townread people there, and never threw out this many scumreads (relative to the game size, of course). While I only gave one example earlier of how ruXxar was scumreading Clarity_nl after his supposed realization that he could be mason with Holyflare, ruXxar was very clearly scumreading Clarity_nl for a significant amount of time after this. And there's no mention of Holyflare at all. I'm completely convinced that ruXxar lied about his mason read on Holyflare and Clarity_nl. And while lying doesn't necessarily make someone mafia, I'm having a lot of trouble accepting this coming from town. The moment I decided I wouldn't lynch clarity because of them possibly being masons was at this point: On July 07 2015 07:47 ruXxar wrote: A thought just struck me about HF and clarity. Willing to give clarity some more time. Top 2 scum atm: Trfel Rsoultin ##Vote Trfel I'd like to see some quotes to back up the bolded statement, because it does not fit with my own perception of the game. | ||
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On July 14 2015 22:08 Clarity_nl wrote: So anyway what changed? Or do you still think I'm scum? Can't really remember your reads at all tbh. I don't have you as a priority lynch at this point. The moment I started getting a real townread on you was N1. I really liked the way you conducted yourself when you started reasoning about the cops, the red-checks and your case on milo. It looked like you were really trying to solve the game. I've for the most part written off your opening posts as less relevant and like how you've progressed throughout the game. | ||
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I thought it wasn't, so I tried to give very subtle hints about it, same way I wanted to give a subtle hint to oats about geript being a PR. You can see examples of that here: On July 08 2015 14:28 ruXxar wrote: Clarity was one of my top scum reads early on. I dropped his vote due to a personal theory of mine that I'd rather not share. I'm going to re-evaluate him tomorrow. Ebh I also haven't been tracking since his opening post. Didn't care for his blue hunting obviously, but didn't strike me as particularly scummy outside of that. I haven't been keeping up on everyone today a lot of noise towards the lynch. I'll be reevaluating people throughout the night now that things slowed done a bit. I'll give you my updated reads on them tomorrow and other people I find noteworthy tomorrow. Going to bed for now, good night | ||
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I'd be interested in hearing your updated opinion after you've read the whole thread and not just the first 50 pages. | ||
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On July 14 2015 23:44 Half the Sky wrote: Writing style was the giveaway for me. Using that meta, agenda could be traced in one of his posts where he talked about fear reading palmar and tracing that to MZ but why did he selectively exclude others that would have known palmar? (Marvellosity, HF....or even discounting Damdred, as HF called him out on) This doesn't make marv/hf/etc mafia but why he just pinged mz alone as a palmar fear read when others were in that bunch. Would Clarity qualify as potentially needing to fear read Palmar (since his name was brought up?) I'm still townreading him btw, but this is my first game ever with him. So hear's my little rabbithole theory about the palmar kill. The scum team must contain at least 1 person that knows palmar from before or feared him for whatever reason from before this game. I really doubt that anything he did this game would be enough for anyone to NK him(I certainly don't remember anything he's said). There were several stronger opinionated people at the time. Here's the other part of it: I find it reasonable to assume that the scum team is led by the more experienced players. IF we assume that damdred is one of the players with the most reason to fear palmar, and led the NK on him, then it could be deduced that damdred is the "mafia leader" and that the mafia team consists of less experienced players than him. The fact that damdred flipped is kind of bad in a sense because if a newer player flipped mafia, then we could assume that the mafia team contained at least one experienced player that knew palmar. This is as strawman as it gets, but that's my thoughts around it. | ||
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Is that like OMGUS? | ||
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On July 15 2015 00:05 Half the Sky wrote: Dick move analysis - marv explained it to me D1. Gotcha, never heard that term before. | ||
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Once we have 2 mafia flipped we can start analyizing inter-mafia behavior and try to glean some information from how they interact(or don't!) with each other. Until then it's sort of hard to draw any associative patterns between people. I've looked more deeply into damdred's filter to see if I can find anything peculiar. This is all from before geript claimed he tracked damdred: + Show Spoiler + Read progression: Scumreads(strength): LS - (very strong). Clarity (strong). Ritoky (medium) Trfel (weak) Wave (very weak). Town reads: Ruxx Marv Kelsier HF HTS Palmar We can see how he had both ritoky and LS in his scum-reads day 1. and they were 2 of his strongest scum reads. Looking at this I find it unlikely that damdred would hard bus his partner so in my mind it's even less likely that clarity is scum here. As for the town-reads I'll analyze them after tonight since at least kelsier is flipping and maybe one more. | ||
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Not sure at all. It wouldn't surprise me though. Like I've mentioned earlier he's acted really weird after D1, and his filter after D1 is really awful imo. | ||
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On July 15 2015 01:38 Half the Sky wrote: Alright you did say "if he's mafia" but second sentence initially led me to believe you are expecting KSC to flip as mafia. But given how you've been posting some obvious statements through this game I'm probably wrong and you're doing the same here too. I see how the second paragraph could be interpreted as related to the first paragraph, but they're meant as separate statements. | ||
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Can you qualify your scum-read of me? | ||
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If all 4 flip town we're in a really bad spot :/. We'll be down to a 10 vs 4 situation. Then with one more mislynch it's 9v4. 2 NK's brings it down to 7v4 and we're in LYLO. | ||
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I don't feel good about it but in a way it sort of clears up things. LS said that he's fairly confident there's 1 mafia between you and rsoul, so if you flip green then we're probably going to lynch rsoul I hope. | ||
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On July 15 2015 04:27 Holyflare wrote: if you believe that ls gave obiwanshinobi his gun then you might actually be mafia I don't have a reason to believe that outside of obi strongly alluding to it himself. If i was to guess I'd say LS gave his gun to rsoul. No need to speculate though, all shall be clear soon. | ||
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On July 15 2015 05:22 Harkon wrote: This is a very bad read and HF knows better. No matter what Obis alignment is he has been serious as town before and it is absolutely not out of character for him- Ruxxar, you watching? Needless shitflinging once again. Not to mention that HF has killed me as scum multiple times and I basically always get shot if I am town. There is noone who would keep HF alive because he thinks he can mislynch him. Further shitflinging. Very productive. Complete and utter bullshit. It is normal to talk to people like they are town like this and HF knows it. Absolutely nonsensical statement. Further needless shitflinging while HF knows that Obi harddefends people as town all the time. HF is probably mafia. You seemed to have missed the point I was making earlier. I never said that I liked HF's attitude or that I approved of it. I'm not town-reading him for NOT shitflinging. I'm saying that the way he constructs his arguments against people he's pushing, their content and the way he's expressing them is different from a meta based perspective. Is it possible he changed his scum meta from one game to the next? sure, it's possible, he's a good player. However what I've seen from him this game makes me inclined to believe he's town. | ||
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On July 15 2015 06:33 boxerfred wrote: I think you're a likely target if you're indeed town, too. At least I'd consider shooting you if I were scum. I'm flattered, but I've had some scum thrown around me. If scum pushed hard I don't think they would find it impossible to get town consent to lynch me. | ||
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On July 15 2015 06:36 Clarity_nl wrote: Lol no offense to ruxxar but there's no way he's dying tonight Hey! I was feeling good there for a second :p | ||
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From what I saw from damdred it doesn't seem like mafia are actually hard-bussing each other(some say that he likes to do that, but for this exercise I'll assume he didn't) Using that and some arbitrary measure of what I consider pushing hard / throwing shit at each other I'd say that these people aren't mafia together(either town/town or town/mafia): HF + Rsoultin. HF + Trfel. HF + Obi. HF + HTS. HF + Harkon Ruxx + Trfel. Ruxx + Rsoultin. Boxerfred + Clarity. Boxerfred + Oats. I might've missed some interactions but yeah. Not sure if this is a valid line of thought, but I'm thinking that as more mafia flip we can see if this is a tendency that holds true or if they are all just playing individually separate of each other. | ||
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On July 15 2015 07:15 LightningStrike wrote: BTW we are following my plan: Lynch HF. ##Vote: HF I'm willing to give him 1 more day. If he doesn't get killed tonight then sure, lynch him with fire. | ||
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On July 15 2015 07:20 Holyflare wrote: if you can't tell i'm majorly on tilt this entire game so provoking me or poking me or treating me in any way that makes me non productive will instantly flip me to being a negative ass hole all i wanted to do was give you guys my read on obi and have fun -.- so i'll just afk and you can lynch me Cut the martyr crap HF, you're better than that. | ||
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On July 15 2015 07:44 LightningStrike wrote: Also don't you guys find it odd that I wasn't NK'd and yet Marv did? Not really. Sorry LS but there are other people more interested in solving the game. | ||
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On July 15 2015 07:57 LightningStrike wrote: This post screams TMI about KSC because he didn't really say much about KSC prior to that post. HF post here is weird too but I thought he was Mafia prior to that post. How is that TMI? I mentioned that I was sceptical of kelsier a few times: + Show Spoiler + On July 09 2015 06:29 ruXxar wrote: Finally back on my PC, that's great, can read filters n stuff. Kelsier: Liked him at the start. Was top townread. As game went on presence fell off. Don't understand his response to my rsoultin case. One strange reply then never mentions it again? The last half of his filter is awful. Appears to be active without actually involving himself. Has fallen down from Top town to slightly above null. On July 13 2015 21:41 ruXxar wrote: I really like the idea that someone brought up that a lot of mafia could be hiding among the lurkers when most of the lynches are "auto". These are the people that I feel have been invisible enough to be in that group. Trfel Wave Scott Kelsier Breshke Obi EBH What's common for all of them is that they never really got into any heavy confrontations that I can remember where they had to defend or push their view. It's easy for mafia to sit back and soft push people, throwing out names and accusations etc without really trying to push their view onto other people or fight back when they get confronted with their views. Coupled with low activity and little interest in playing as mafia I feel like there should definitely be at least 1 mafia here if not 2 or more. Of the people on that list I like EBH and Obi the most, mostly due to the interaction I've had with them. That's not a very strong point though. The rest are meh tier. On July 14 2015 07:18 ruXxar wrote: Alright let's relax. Just because milo was town doesn't mean we should automatically go about killing people on his lynch list. He barely put in any effort, so I doubt he actually had that good reads on people. Shooting HF is a terrible idea. If HF is mafia we can deal with him later. It's better to shoot some of the question marks that aren't going to contribute anyway. Trfel, scott, wave or perhaps kelsier would be excellent targets imo.. I explained to HTS how the first line and the second paragraph are separate statements can be misinterpreted. | ||
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In my newbie game one of our town players supposedly found a scumslip of geript. Everyone sheeped him and we lynched our town geript for the most idiotic reason just due to the way he misworded his post. I don't think I've ever felt as dumb as that and rightfully got scumread for it for flipflopping based on just this 1 "scumslip" when i was very convinced that someone else was scum. After that I told myself I'll never believe in scumslips again. | ||
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On July 15 2015 07:39 Half the Sky wrote: So Damdred and KSC did quite a bit of double bussing (!!!) D1. Both pushed on Wave but the pushes went nowhere, not sure if that could/would/should be alignment indicative either way considering WoS has not done much this game. Bottom of page 4 of his filter - you have a soft push on BF. Interesting. Given BF's play this game though I'm not sure that's alignment indicative. In between those sets of reads you have a few soft pushes on EBH and Trfel. He's scumreading ritoky and LS the whole time but obv now we know what those latter two are. Day 2 reads - Might be WIFOM here but based on Damdred and KSC filters Wave is probably town. Really not a whole lot of additional information since we already know where Damdred and LS stand, and Trfel and BF reads seem to be a little more definitive than before... Gah was hoping for more, but go friggin figure... From the quotes you excerpted here I'm inclined to agree that there's a low chance that WoS is scum. I'm going to take a look for myself and see what else I can find. | ||
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On July 15 2015 08:21 LightningStrike wrote: I actually seen some scumslips before(Mainly in my 3rd game ever when we had someone claimed roleblocked when you weren't even notified that you been roleblocked in Carol of the bells Mafia) Well that is someone lying about game mechanics. That is different from the semantics of how you express yourself. | ||
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Here are their reads for reference: Kelsier: + Show Spoiler + Town: Clarity Breshke HF Geript Oats harkon LS Scum: Wave ritoky Trfel damdred milo EBH Damdred: + Show Spoiler + Town: Ruxx Marv Kelsier HF HTS Palmar Scumreads(strength): LS - (very strong). Clarity (strong). Ritoky (medium) Trfel (weak) Wave (very weak). It's really strange how their town-reads are completely different with the exception of HF. So if they're covering up for someone the only one they have in common is HF. + Show Spoiler + Why damdred thought HF was town: Hf: I'm scared of him bit he seems a lot more involved early and seems to be pushing things from a good angle to me. He doesn't sound really stinky to me atm so I'm ok with him being town here. Why kelsier thought HF was town: hf - he's come right out the gate with pressure on trefl and gotten into a few scraps already. I also like the mindmeld that he and breshke had when they called rsoul out , the "voting early doesnt mean shit" posts hf is a tone read to me, i can't fully explain it but i see hf posting about fucking everything in teh game and it feels like town. yeh he can spam as scum. but he feels like town. plus he mindmelded with marv, who is also town. and it reminded me of some other faggot game where the two of them melded to form a titanical robot of doom until marv replaces with some noob ass bitch called koshi. They don't really talk about HFs alignment at all besides this. Its possible that they just threw their mafia partner in there to give him a town pass for weak reasons, and with the way a lot of people have been scum-reading HF this could hold some merit. On the other side of the coin, we have the people that they both scum-read. Wave: + Show Spoiler + Why damdred scum-read wave: I think wave is scum because of lack of cares but meh. Why kelsier scum-read wave: I think calling clarity town at the time he did was strange and it was like he was purposefully trying to go against thread sentiment. Clarity has retracted the scum read but I'm not a fan Very weak reasons and an easy target to throw scum on with the way he's been afk all game. It makes me think it's less likely that wave is mafia, but it's not out of the question. Trfel: + Show Spoiler + Why damdred scum-read trfel: Trfel doesn't care to me when I look at the game more than likely is scum Why kelsier scum-read trfel: trefl - I like hf's case I like the comments clarity made. sheep case completely And they barely talk about him again. This seems like an incredibly easy jump on a mis-lynch target. It's making me evaluate my worlds a bit and I'm more inclined to think that trfel is town after this even though I don't like his play this game. This case is even stronger than wave's case because Trfel was actually up for vote and was pushed real hard as opposed to wave who people just poked here and there. | ||
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Looking into what HF has said about both damdred and kelsier we find this: Kelsier: + Show Spoiler + Had him as a town-read throughout most of the game. Said that he was different from last game but still might be town. Said he would be good to lynch as an alternative to scott due to afk. TMI?(before kelsier flip) On July 14 2015 22:42 Holyflare wrote: It's a good thing kelsier flipped mafia though that makes things easier I would say that this is pretty vague tbh. I don't see anything to really support a HF -> Kelsier connection besides maybe the TMI. Damdred: + Show Spoiler + Had damdred on first read list as town. Later switched as he said damdreds reads were poor. Agreed that damdred was not towny, but unsure whether PR or mafia. I find very little here from HF's side to suggest that he's aligned with both of them, but he could just good at hiding it. I still read HF as town in an isolated perspective, but his martyr crap is pissing me off. | ||
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On July 15 2015 11:33 XEliteBlueHunter69X wrote: who has been more correct in this game then me? Town lynching their most aware player would be pretty funny though so ill allow it. Being right is more indicative of being mafia than town, I don't see why we shouldn't scum read you for being right when no one but mafia has perfect information. | ||
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On July 15 2015 21:31 Clarity_nl wrote: Hey Breshke and RuXxar, do either of you think the other one is scum? Breshke has pretty much been a null to me the entire game. Can't really remember anything about him or any influence he has had on anything The only thing I remember was our short interaction about my rsoultin read where he came off as a bit abrasive. I skimmed his filter earlier and got a slight town vibe, but I'd have to read it more in depth to give you a definite answer. From what I can remember right now I don't have a good reason to lynch breshke, but I don't have a good reason to not lynch him either. He's in my lurker group of would lynch and that's pretty much it. | ||
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On July 15 2015 21:39 Clarity_nl wrote: It's not a difficult question. ? | ||
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On July 15 2015 22:06 rsoultin wrote: eh prob that you take ages to answer any question directed at you ruxx lol >< i've generally been chalking it up to not being a native english speaker, but it could be easily construed as either avoiding the question or being too careful with your wording you've been hard-defending/hard-townreading hf all game practically? (i know you claim that you haven't, but taking up shit reasons to call me scum that basically involve "obstructing" hf is pretty much the same thing xP unless you're a supremely illogical person) like, it's nice that you're doing work and all with the flipped scum filters, but you don't seem to really be getting anywhere with them? why so cool all of a sudden on hf? too me it looks a whole lot like you're just setting up to vote him if he doesn't come back while making it easy to not lynch him if he does -_- does the martyring make you think he's less town or are you just "pissed"? How am I avoiding questions when I'm answering them? I know I take a long reason answering questions and there's a good reason for that. I don't want to say stupid stuff that's going to come back to bite me in the ass later and get me mis-lynched. What good does it serve me if I have to go back and explain all the errors I made in my statements when I can just get it right the first time? It's a waste of my time and does not help us get anywhere. I don't town-read HF any less for his martyring, but I dislike martyring strongly. In honor of the spirit of the game you should never quit and go against your win condition. I know it's easy to take the high road here, but I don't see how you can play this game and not expect to have to deal with hardships. What pisses me off especially about HF is how I KNOW that he is good at defending himself if he wants to. I was mafia with him last game, I've seen first hand what he's capable of. I was expecting more out of him, but I don't read it as scummy behavior. In fact, I think it makes him even more towny. I think that if HF was scum he would feel an obligation to his mafia team to never give up. From playing and talking with him last game that is what my gut tells me that HF would do. Just look at how he fought against the tides with the red-check on him for such a long time when people kept bringing up the same logic over and over against him. I don't see mafia HF giving up this easily. | ||
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Vivax. Rsoultin. Here's the list of people I really don't want to lynch today: HF Clarity HTS Oats LS | ||
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On July 15 2015 22:47 rsoultin wrote: eh maybe it's a newbie thing ruxx but being super careful with posts gen isn't considered townie. I don't understand why you're content to lynch hf if this makes you think he's more town? who do you want to lynch if he comes back? I never said I wanted to lynch HF today. | ||
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On July 15 2015 22:50 Clarity_nl wrote: ruxxar by definition if HF martyring makes you read him more town then it's not against his win condition. Apparently I'm the only one doing so, so that doesn't really help him much. | ||
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On July 15 2015 22:54 rsoultin wrote: I must have misunderstood lol >< Why vivax again? Short summary: - Case on geript. - Irritated about losing an opportunity to lynch trfel. - Wishy washy stance on trfel. - His tone seems pretty toxic in general, didn't like for example how he responded to clarity calling his arguments trash tier etc. | ||
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"I might as well give up because I can't do anything anyway". That's a pretty terrible attitude to have. | ||
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On July 15 2015 23:08 LightningStrike wrote: Rux it seems like you are mason with HF based on how you treated this entire if you are town? Yes, I am totally masons with HF | ||
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On July 15 2015 23:07 rsoultin wrote: Eh last is def nai lol vivax has made me feel like shite a couple of times I've been reading him town but I don't remember this trfel thing. Quotes? Here's vivax progression in reads on Trfel in chronological order: Response to holyflare's case on Trfel: On July 07 2015 01:20 Vivax wrote: I can sheep that HF. But I don't want the geript shit to be ignored either. Then says he doesn't want to lynch trfel because trfel posted some useless content. On July 07 2015 01:45 Vivax wrote: I retract that I would sheep on Trfel, I realized he posted more than I thought. We should kill geript for being a liar. On July 07 2015 02:29 Vivax wrote: I might as well ignore this whole Trfel thingy since he started doing a little bit of something lately until geript the lying scum is burned for his crimes. Posting useless drivel doesn't auto-mean somebody is scum, just that he wants to post useless drivel for some reason. Much better to look either into the nice guys a la Ruxxar (I'm suspicious of him by standard cause I feel he tries to be everybody's bro, but not willing to call him mafia yet given he also called some shit out that seemed original), and the "too-tryhard-to-be-really-scumhunting" guys a la geript who seems to imitate his ideal townie prototype who calls people mafia as if it was god given and tries to shit on everybody trying to look like he's a dick. Then he goes on to berate HF's push on trfel. On July 07 2015 02:31 Vivax wrote: This whole Trfel thing HF brings up is more along the lines of "BUT YOU AREN'T PLAYING THE GAME THE WAY IT'S SUPPOSED TO, LYNCH" like the last two games where I did exactly that at the beginning of the game for the most part, to demonstrate how prevalent this shitty heuristic is. Then he suddenly decides that trfel can die anyway. On July 08 2015 03:07 Vivax wrote: I decided that Trfel can die too, so if HF wants a lynch on him he can have my vote. I saw no elaboration on his scott scumread and the talk about LS looks like he just needed that read to have something to talk about. His HF suspicion fell into the water as well. Instead what we get are a bunch of apologetic posts and empty promises. Then asked who he want to lynch he says his top scum after geript is trfel.. Now he suddenly thinks Trfel should "possibly" be lynched. On July 08 2015 18:07 Vivax wrote: I don't wanna end up tunneled actually. I still have to get a more compelte look at you. + All of this distracts me from killing geript, WoS and possibly Trfel Then he's irritated that HF dropped his suspicions of trfel: On July 08 2015 19:16 Vivax wrote: I'm pretty irritated by the way HF abandoned the suspicion of Trfel just when mine started to build up. On July 11 2015 12:25 Vivax wrote: Well you can fuck off first of all with this cause when I was ready to vote for him you magically lost interest and now you make it an issue again. Then he wants to lynch trfel again: On July 12 2015 08:42 Vivax wrote: I'm really tempted to go for Trfel today. Then he's like nope: On July 12 2015 19:03 Vivax wrote: Gonna TR Trfel and boxer cause they don't attempt to go after me when quite a bit of people expressed that wish already, and after I pressured them at least a little bit and was willing to lynch/consider milo during the night. He seems pretty erratic with regards to his stance on trfel. It's like he's trying to create a narrative of having a dynamic change in stance on trfel but it's so inconsistent I find it hard to believe that it's genuine. | ||
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On July 15 2015 23:54 LightningStrike wrote: + Show Spoiler + I assuming you are being sarcastic there. Yes LS, I was :p. | ||
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Vivax 4th post is a big case on geript where he tries to belittle and discredit geript: + Show Spoiler + On July 07 2015 00:31 Vivax wrote: I was quite sure I was onto something when I said geript's confidene was unnatural at that stage in the game. Turns out he threw out scumreads as if he was the pro scumhunter when everyone else was way less "ticking in". On top of that it turns out those scumreads don't seem to matter much wehn he comments on a list containing one of them,v reinforcing my suspicion that it was just a show he put up to look like he was scumhunting. + Show Spoiler + On July 06 2015 09:17 geript wrote: I'm not sure if you're right on Damdred. I'm sure you're wrong on wave. I agree about Ruxx. The big thing though is that you're wrong on Wave. He's town. He also likes to swear a lot when faced with suspicion, cause he thinks when he's being a dick to people they will believe he's town. The word that came to mind for his behaviour when confronted with accusations is wannabe cowboy. I imagine this guy in disguise chewing bubble gum and spewing his brown spit in his forced attempt to look like he fits in but even google knows the truth, geript looks more like this when he is trying to do that: Ever since he "found the two scum" the other guy he's been bitching about is Oats when it sort of fit in with the thread sentiment. ##Vote: geript The discrediting continues unsubstantiated: On July 07 2015 01:45 Vivax wrote: I retract that I would sheep on Trfel, I realized he posted more than I thought. We should kill geript for being a liar. On July 07 2015 02:29 Vivax wrote: I might as well ignore this whole Trfel thingy since he started doing a little bit of something lately until geript the lying scum is burned for his crimes. Of course it was obvious that geript was mafia from the start: On July 07 2015 16:34 Vivax wrote: Why am I talking to this guy? It was obvious from the start he's mafia. Here's a comment he made about his play D1. What about his arguments on geript are strong or interesting? On July 11 2015 04:35 Vivax wrote: I don't try to push myself into the foreground to lynch a single player if my best arguments weren't perceived as strong or interesting in the first place, especially not on D1. When pressured about his stance on geript he admits he didn't have any strong arguments after all. On July 11 2015 05:11 Vivax wrote: I was of the opinion that geript was exaggerating aspects of his play on purpose to look more townie (confidence, dickishness), I called him a liar for that, not for anything specific. Just that scum=liars/actors. He doesn't seem willing to evaluate his stance on geript at all, and was just dead set on tunneling geript until the end of days for terrible reasons that he somehow tried to say were "strong or interesting". After geript flips he never mentions that he was wrong on geript or that he misjudged the situation. He just seems happily content with not saying anything and trying to shove it under the carpet. | ||
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On July 14 2015 03:04 Vivax wrote: Again you spew the same trash as before. There's nothing I can do more than complain about the BM lynch and leave my vote on MZ. I'm not the entire game, other people were way more influential and I didn't plan on flailing around like an idiot cause of that lynch. As for the first and third text blocks, that's nothing that makes me mafia it's just my personal preference on WHO I form reads, how I form them, if I form them etc. and you try to twist it as if it was the only possible town play possible. Maybe I just don't give two shits about milo cause I don't give two shits if he's the main wagon since N1. I form reads how I want them and I'm certainly even less willing to form one now that you're on my ass with these trash tier arguments. There's very few things that make a person exclusively scum. A lot of people look scummy even though they're town, just look at all the people we've lynched so far. I'm not saying that only scum would do this, but the case + tunnel on geript seems artificial to me. Right now I think part of the key to solving this game lies in trfel, and here's why: Trfel was an easy target to push with the terrible content he had posted so far. HF started pushing him and it was a low risk case to sheep for scum since HF is a strong player that would take the brunt of the force on himself. I think you will find the scum amongst the people that jumped on the scum-read train of trfel without really pushing him, or in people hard defending him knowing he is town. These people are: EBH, Me, Vivax, Rsoultin. I'm thinking there is 1 or maybe 2 mafia in here, and I'm most suspicious of rsoultin and vivax atm. | ||
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On July 16 2015 02:44 Trfel wrote: So, ruXxar, apparently you now think that I am town? Why? (I'd just like to have it clearly stated) Also, you never answered my previous question... If Clarity_nl's first few posts seemed scummy because they were pre-planned, how could this be true if Holyflare is town? In other words, how could Clarity_nl, as mafia plan something before the game with town!Holyflare? Currently my working theory is this: HF is town. You are town. Mafia sheeped the push on you (damdred + kelsier + ebh/vivax) Mafia hard defended you / disrupting (rsoultin) About clarity: I thought it was pre-planned from clarity's side and not together with HF. I thought that the reason she said it was due to the fact that they could both be mafia together, but the "pre-planned" part was done by her alone, so she could possibly be mafia on her own. This doesn't really make any sense when he couldn't have known what HF was going to say, so the pre-planned argument actually falls apart and looking at it now it was an incorrect argument to make. I admit now I was wrong and that the argument was terrible. I blame it on the early game adrenaline rush. After that point I didn't really evaluate whether the pre-planned accusation made sense, I just automatically assumed it did. I hadn't really re-evaluated it until now when I realize how little sense it makes. | ||
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On July 16 2015 04:17 Clarity_nl wrote: Still a guy Sorry, I'll do 40 pushups to punish myself. On July 16 2015 04:19 Clarity_nl wrote: Also the fact that you seem to think 3-4 mafia jumped on the same wagon early d1 is a bit ridiculous, it's actually a point against vivax being mafia, although a small one. Taking what the flipped scum have in common and my individual scum-reads it sort of fits into my world. | ||
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Like, who ever questioned why damdred and kelsier scum-read trfel? No one, people were focused on HF since he was the main proponent of the push. The others just scooted by and no one batted an eyelid. | ||
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On July 16 2015 04:40 Clarity_nl wrote: That's mainly because trfel was scummy a hell to everyone except rsoultin if I remember correctly. Look ruxxar if you're town I'm sorry that I'm throwing in 1-liners to stop your push but I really disagree with the way you're going about it. I've brought up the point of Vivax's 1st post before and HtS pointed out that you're taking quotes out of context. I'm not sure if you're town and tunneling a bit or scum doing it on purpose but either find something substantial or move on. What's your read on Breshke? I'm grateful to all the people that question my statements. It forces me to think critically about the arguments I make and the scum-tells I'm looking for and makes me improve as a player. As I progress through the games of mafia I'll see whether my theories were right or wrong and try to adapt my play to be more accurate next time. Especially trfel has a good tendency of finding flaws in my reasoning and I appreciate anyone doing that. | ||
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On July 16 2015 04:50 XEliteBlueHunter69X wrote: switching my vote to breshke if anyone is up for shenanigans later, he is my new most confident scum read again. I'm going to look over both yours and breshke's filter next. | ||
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You had a confident scum-read on Vivax early on that you thought was a bussing attempt by vivax onto geript. What are your thoughts on vivax now that geript has flipped? | ||
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We've been robbed of the whole dynamic where towards the lynch the mafia pop-up trying to defend their scum mates and divert the lynch onto someone else. Without this it's hard to see the true alignment of people and it's pretty frustrating because the flips don't really tell us all that much. | ||
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I must say that a lot of the lynches has been pretty much auto and this is really the first day where we have no real clear target that we want to lynch if it wasn't for HF quitting. | ||
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On July 16 2015 07:17 LightningStrike wrote: Honestly Geript thought Damdred was scum before he tracked Damdred to ritoky. Multiple people had scum-reads on damdred, but he was never in danger of getting lynched. | ||
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On July 16 2015 07:21 LightningStrike wrote: True because we thought we had better targets Day 1. Exactly. You get the most relevant information out of vote logic and people's stances when a scum is actually in danger of getting lynched. Other than that it's not so useful. | ||
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On July 16 2015 10:21 Breshke wrote: + Show Spoiler + On July 16 2015 09:56 Holyflare wrote: Well, oats pushed geript for his "scum slip" thing all of day one right? It genuinely looks like Oats is a VT and "caught" out geript in his scum slip thing and besides that he had actual logical reasons to scum read geript too, he elaborated more on it later: To oats, it was obvious that geript did not get the VT pm and he spent ages tunneling on it (I actually really like all of his posts d1 and maybe I should ignore oats less ) so if he was mafia he'd know that geript was actually blue. Vivax is a bit hard to quantify but i'll try in a bit I kinda wrote this off because i thought it was dumb. Like the last quote chain especially im not sure what interaction oats was looking for with geript. I found it weird but not alignment indicative weird more like i dont get this weird. I thought it was fairly clear that geript ment that the word investigator shouldn't mean anything to anyone because the pms are listen in the OP. I do understand the logic though that oats seemed fairly certain it meant geript was not VT so if he was mafia he would have likely pushed for that nightkill. This is a good reason to townread oats. On July 16 2015 09:59 Holyflare wrote: Nah, I just explained I don't have a read on ruxxar. His situation is also a bit different because he JUST played in a mafia game with me together so I expected him to have a different insight into things than Clarity for example who keeps denying anything being told to him. Ruxxar's read is based on his anecdotal facts and own point of view and Clarity's is based purely on.... who knows and when you don't really know a player and everyone is screaming in your face otherwise and you still keep that read then it's pretty fucking scummy to me. Yeh, I do have a weakness for people defending me too and rsoultin should know that because she did exactly the same to me in another game so saying it's weird is pretty bad for her anyway. Did you read my stuff on Obi Breshke? Both the night posts and post I just made now? Why do you have him as town? Okay i see how that doesn't really apply but can you look at this post please. On July 14 2015 01:29 ruXxar wrote: I was scum with HF last game, and I have a townlean on him this game. In general I find HF hard to read, he doesn't conform to the stereotypic mafia player. There are however small nuances that I think makes him town this game, compared to last game. 1) He's actually pushing logical targets. I find myself agreeing with a lot of his reasoning, as compared to just trying to tunnel people to death with weak arguments and a play on emotions. Last game he tried to lynch people by ridiculing them and their arguments and being over the top and shouting at them. Blowing things out of proportions and trying to make them look stupid. I'm seeing a relatively more "calm" and reasoning HF this game. More serious and down to business. 2) He's more wishy washy. This doesn't mean that he IS wishy washy in a general sense, but in a relative sense compared to last game. Especially the night when were lynched BM he seemed a bit all over the place, uncertain where to go. You see that he sometimes have a hard time picking a target to lynch, I can relate to that very well. That isn't the scum HF I played with last game. He mainly picked one target and stuck with it, and didn't waver much. 3) He's re-evaluating his stance. You can see multiple times throughout the game that he's re-evaluating his stance on people. This is apparent in how he's re-evaluating his stance on both trfel, hts, milo and others continuously, jumping from towny to scummy based on their actions/reactions. That's my opinion on HF so far this game, I don't agree that shooting him is a good idea. If anything, shoot Rsoul. Do you think these reasons could make him have such a strong townread that he doesn't really seem to second guess it. I think all of these things are entirely possible for you to do as town. Number 1 is the best reason i find but it still shouldn't make his read so concrete. He speaks with such authority like he knows your play so well and hey maybe he does but i find it really hard to believe coming from someone who has played what? 1 game with you? Also if anything the second reason concerning the BM lynch I wouldn't really say is townie since we know it was town v town and this was posted after the MZ flip but he doesn't even take this into account in his read. I have read your obi stuff but i don't really remember it, i will definitely go back and take a look at it sometime soon like this phase though. That post described why I had been reading him as town up until that point. What solidified his town position for me and why he's currently my strongest townread, I outlined in this post: On July 15 2015 22:36 ruXxar wrote: How am I avoiding questions when I'm answering them? I know I take a long reason answering questions and there's a good reason for that. I don't want to say stupid stuff that's going to come back to bite me in the ass later and get me mis-lynched. What good does it serve me if I have to go back and explain all the errors I made in my statements when I can just get it right the first time? It's a waste of my time and does not help us get anywhere. I don't town-read HF any less for his martyring, but I dislike martyring strongly. In honor of the spirit of the game you should never quit and go against your win condition. I know it's easy to take the high road here, but I don't see how you can play this game and not expect to have to deal with hardships. What pisses me off especially about HF is how I KNOW that he is good at defending himself if he wants to. I was mafia with him last game, I've seen first hand what he's capable of. I was expecting more out of him, but I don't read it as scummy behavior. In fact, I think it makes him even more towny. I think that if HF was scum he would feel an obligation to his mafia team to never give up. From playing and talking with him last game that is what my gut tells me that HF would do. Just look at how he fought against the tides with the red-check on him for such a long time when people kept bringing up the same logic over and over against him. I don't see mafia HF giving up this easily. I saw how HF was struggling so hard as mafia against all odds last game, and it was a miracle that we won. I refuse to believe that HF would give up as mafia when he has an obligation to his team, and also his pride on the line as the best scum player on TL. Like, he was attack from all fronts and I even bussed him super hard and he still didn't give up. Yes my meta read is based on that one game together, but I believe strongly that HF would not give up as scum. If you show me a game where he did give up as scum then sure, my townread on him might dip a little, but that doesn't nullify the other things I'm townreading him for. | ||
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I've stated my position, and I may be swayed into lynching HF tomorrow, but not before that. Right now I still feel good about a vivax or rsoul lynch. I don't feel so good about an obi lynch. I've had a slight town lean on him this game, and him defending me makes me not want to vote for him either. If I had to choose between a HF and an Obi lynch i'd reluctantly lynch Obi, but I'm not feeling good about lynching either. I'm going to vote for vivax and if anyone wants to join me that's cool. @Obi. HF has a point about your stance switch on clarity. Reading your filter all I see is clarity is mafia until HF martyrs and after that it's suddenly "I don't want to lynch clarity anymore". 1) Can you explain exactly what made you change your stance on clarity? Are you saying that clarity is no longer a scum-read or that you simply have stronger scum-reads atm? 2) I'd like you to expand a bit on why your top scum-reads are what they are. Reading your filter I can't find many reasons for your scum-reads. Can you write a short summary on why you scum-read these people: EBH, HF, Clarity? | ||
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On July 16 2015 22:39 Holyflare wrote: Wow you think obi's town read or you makes him look towny? "yeh i dunno.. Activity!" that's what you like about him ruxxar? No that's now why I've had him as a slight town-read this game. I just have a natural preference for liking people town-reading me. I got the town-read on him from the interaction we had earlier. I got the feeling that he was really listening to what I was saying and evaluating my point when no one else was listening to my case on rsoul. If I'd judge his filter as a standalone i'd say it's pretty lackluster from how there's many scum call-outs without much if any reasoning behind it. | ||
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Reconsidering it, I don't think an Obi lynch is the worst thing in the world. | ||
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Then go through his game and see what he's accomplished and compare it to your average citizen joe. If the only reason you're lynching him is because LS is saying "we need to lynch HF", then you're not thinking clearly here. The maint antagonist to HF if you will is Rsoultin. Comparing what they both have done this game I'm shocked that everyone thinks HF is scum over rsoultin. Their contribution to this game is night and day. What HF has done: - He's pushed on Trfel - He's pushed on Rsoul - He's pushed on HTS - He tried to help Milo defend himself when everyone else had given up, even if Milo couldn't be bothered. - He's pushed on Obi He's actually looked at the arguments people made and picked them apart and showed where they're flawed. He's pointed out peoples inconsistencies time and time again. He did it vs Trfel, He did it vs HTS. He did it vs Obi He did it vs other people I don't remember right now. Point is he doesn't take no for an answer and he actually pushes HARD and doesn't want to be ignored. How can you not see that being pro-town? When people try to point put scum on him he doesn't just say "fuck off you're retarded" He actually says "show me where I've said such things and I'll explain to you why I'm wrong". He's inviting people to scrutiny him: "Here look at my filter, point out where I'm scummy" and we can have a discussion. He's not afraid to show his true colors and have a reasonable argument with people. That's actually the thing he wants more than anything is for people to read his arguments and discuss them instead of having them being ignored all the time. In comparsion, what has Rsoultin done? - Defended trfel. That's it! I can't remember one single push she's made on anyone. It's all fluff from start to finish. Oh sure, she's active, but she's not doing jack shit. All she's done is argue with people and comment on what people are saying. Has she made a case on anyone? no Has she pushed on anyone? no Holyflare's contributions to this game is like 10x more valuable than what rsoultin has done. I don't understand why you people are so satisfied with lynching HF as if it's some kind of personal achievement of "yeah we lynched the tyrant". If you're voting HF because he martyred then sure, I agree that martyring sucks and I can see why you don't like his attitude. I agree that his attitude was poor. But try to put that out of your mind and look at what he's actually done this game. After he came back he even did a ton of work and he corrected his attitude to a mellower tone and then rsoul tries to stir up to a shitfight again by threatening him. Can't you see how it's always rsoultin that's always the cause of the shitfighting this game? She did it when he was pushing on trfel, She did it when I made a case on her, She did it now after Holyflare came back and actually tried to have a nice attitude. If you can't see that you're just blind. I can't just sit here and let you guys go ahead and lynch our most valuable player for stupid reasons while ignoring all the good contributions he's brought to this game. | ||
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On July 16 2015 23:58 boxerfred wrote: Would lynch clarity, rsoul or hts, switching for majority's sake. I'll join you in a rsoul lynch. Let's go. | ||
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No offense to LS, but sheeping confirmed town just because they're town and don't actually have any serious reason for their reads is really dumb. If you objectively study the game, there's no way you can come to the conclusion that rsoultins contributions are more pro-town than HF. | ||
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On July 17 2015 00:32 Clarity_nl wrote: No one is sheeping LS So why are you still voting for HF?! You even said that you liked his his contributions and you had a town read on him up until now. Why flip flop when you've been so certain all along? All I see is you saying you want to vote HF out of spite. | ||
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So you're voting him for martyring as a policy lynch. So you actually think he's town but you're just policy lynching him anyway? | ||
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Your thoughts are so scattered from one post to the next. Can you quote the post(s) that you feel best describes your reason for voting HF? | ||
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On July 17 2015 00:51 Breshke wrote: ruxxar man your townread on HF really gives me the heebie jeebies i cant get past it. Also BF i have also not voted yet you ignore that because it doesnt fit your world. You see where clarity is coming from. If you pick two people to be scum of course you can find stuff to fit that picture like if i say ruxxar and hf are scum then i can justify it that ruxxar has been townreading and defending HF when i feel he has had no buisness doing so. but it doesnt work like that. What about it don't you like? | ||
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On July 17 2015 01:00 Half the Sky wrote: Do you see how this might not necessarily be alignment indicative? I can see it possible if he's scum but it's Holyflare... I don't think that clarity is scum. | ||
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On July 17 2015 01:05 Onegu wrote: Vote Count Holyflare (8): Holyflare, LightningStrike, Clarrity_nl, WaveofShadow, Trfel, Oatsmaster, rsoultin, Vivax Breshke (1): XEliteBlueHunter69X XEliteBlueHunter69X (1): ObiWanShinobi rsoultin(2): ruXxar, boxerfred ruXxar(1)Half the Sky Not Voting (2):, Breshke, Currently, Holyflare is set to be lynched. With 14 alive it takes 8 to lynch. Day ends at Thursday, Jul 16 10:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00) in . Voting is Mandatory! Voting is done in the voting thread: (link) This vote count is very wrong. | ||
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On July 17 2015 01:00 Clarity_nl wrote: So yeah I basically just copy/pasted a full page of my filter because apparently you missed all of it. Reading this I can see where you're coming from. Makes sense. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + On July 16 2015 22:36 ruXxar wrote: I'm not going to get onto the HF train. I've stated my position, and I may be swayed into lynching HF tomorrow, but not before that. Right now I still feel good about a vivax or rsoul lynch. I don't feel so good about an obi lynch. I've had a slight town lean on him this game, and him defending me makes me not want to vote for him either. If I had to choose between a HF and an Obi lynch i'd reluctantly lynch Obi, but I'm not feeling good about lynching either. I'm going to vote for vivax and if anyone wants to join me that's cool. @Obi. HF has a point about your stance switch on clarity. Reading your filter all I see is clarity is mafia until HF martyrs and after that it's suddenly "I don't want to lynch clarity anymore". 1) Can you explain exactly what made you change your stance on clarity? Are you saying that clarity is no longer a scum-read or that you simply have stronger scum-reads atm? 2) I'd like you to expand a bit on why your top scum-reads are what they are. Reading your filter I can't find many reasons for your scum-reads. Can you write a short summary on why you scum-read these people: EBH, HF, Clarity? | ||
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When town decides to just train onto someone it means that either they're lynching a townie or someone is bussing real hard. Just look at the votes right now. HF is at 9 votes. If he was mafia and his mafia partners are bussing him, they could easily switch off to another target to guarantee a no-lynch. Since everyone seems dead-set on lynching HF, it pretty much points to this being 1 of 2 options: Option 1) HF is mafia together with 2 of these people: EBH Boxerfred Breshke Option 2) HF is town and mafia + town are voting on him. I have a townlean on boxerfred and slight townlean on EBH. I know I'm town, so the likelyhood of there being mafia in the vote on HF right now is really high. I need you guys to think about this, and think real hard. - If HF flips scum, then it's almost guaranteed that the mafia are among the people not voting on him. - If HF flips town, then it's almost guaranteed that the mafia are voting on him right now. I don't see a world where mafia bus HF here. If HF flips scum you'll find the mafia among these people: EBH BF Breshke If he flips town, then mafia are voting on him right now. | ||
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On July 17 2015 05:07 Clarity_nl wrote: You should, because if they're both scum there is 0 reason to not kill the RB first, unless you're scum. I'm more confident on ruxxar than I am on breshke though, but you seem committed to want to die so just die and then whine postgame about how LS sucked despite you ruining an entire day. Or be scum, whatever. Humor me, if I'm scum then who's mafia with me? | ||
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Really? You haven't even thought about whether or not it makes sense that I'm mafia together with someone? You know you have to piece together teams that actually makes sense right? Good luck when you get to lylo and there's 3 mafia alive and you all start scum reading each other. That's how I lost my newbie game because us townies were too dumb to piece together who could or couldn't be mafia together and just looked at the scummiest player who happened to be a townie playing scummy. So yeah, have fun with that. | ||
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We're not that far from LYLO. Just focusing on the scummiest player isn't going to win you the game in the long run. You need to widen your perspective and see how the game fits together as a whole. You need to see how the puzzle fits together. Did you look into the scum that flipped and how they associated with each other? Did you look at the post I made about people heavily arguing with each other that likely aren't scum together? Assume we mis-lynch today. Then we have 2 mis-lynches left before LYLO. As time goes on we can't afford to simply lynch the scummiest player anymore. | ||
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On July 17 2015 06:30 Breshke wrote: I'm really not happy with this holyflare lynch I'm really happy you worked hard to stop it then. | ||
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On July 17 2015 06:44 rsoultin wrote: okay i'm behind catch me up we're lynching hf but from this page clearly y'all have some reason to doubt it, so what's going on? People got shaky on the lynch. Some people wanted to lynch me instead. HF said no. People stayed on HF. | ||
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On July 17 2015 06:56 Holyflare wrote: you should want mafia to switch off and no lynch because then you get free mafia tbh That's actually a good point. | ||
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On July 17 2015 07:06 Blazinghand wrote: it had the flip adj yes it was night post it even says night on it. Be grateful Sorry BH, i wasn't mocking your post. No modkillerino pls *puppey eyes* | ||
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That's all I got to say. | ||
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On July 17 2015 07:15 rsoultin wrote: how is it bs? lol...like seriously i'm just saying it's not gonna happen. if you want to make it bs by trying to lynch me, be my guest anyway, i'm out for awhile. sucks that i was wrong, but frankly, i'm kind of glad to not have him sniping at me every turn even if he was town also, ruxx looks super bad for the hard defend, just sayin I had a strong townread that I've explained several times? It's not the first time I take a hard stance on defending someone. You were my coach in the newbie game where I hard defended a scum so much that I said I was 100% willing to get lynched next day if I was wrong. | ||
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On July 17 2015 07:23 rsoultin wrote: maybe? i didn't read that game your explanation is basically frills and whistles -shrugs- feels and generic comments with little in the way of actual evidence to back it up you basically said he looked town because he looked town Yeah... no, I've said a lot more than that. Read the comments I made about him and try again. Here, I'll even link them for you since I'm so nice: Post 1 Post 2 Post 3 Post 4 | ||
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On July 17 2015 07:26 LightningStrike wrote: Honestly there was like 4-5 votes outside of the HF wagon I think at least 1 is scum in those and at least 2 on the main wagon I will try to put up some work tonight on vote analyses up to this night phase. You told me earlier there was 1 scum between HF and Rsoultin. What is your opinion now? Is rsoultin scum? | ||
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On July 17 2015 07:07 Trfel wrote: I support this scum team. Reason being that they are my townreads, thus they have to be mafia. You think I'm kidding, but I'm 100% serious. I'm actually starting to lean into this "my town reads are scum" paranoia world. I don't want to get burned again by not considering my town reads as scum. At this point all bets are off. | ||
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On July 17 2015 08:12 Oatsmaster wrote: Unless you can give me a really good reason why you didnt consolidate onto HF when there is 1 vote away from being a nolynch. Start reading here http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=24564060 | ||
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It just seems very unlikely. I think that you'll most likely find scum within these people: Rsoultin HTS Obiwanshinobi Trfel Clarity I'm fairly certain that oats is town. His whole scum-slip seance with geript earlier spoiled the fact that he's VT, and I really don't think he was faking it. LS is gunsmith so there's that. It really sucks that a lot of my townreads are in this list, but at this point I have to re-evaluate everyone. I've been burned by ignoring my townreads before when they were scum so everyone is getting the same treatment here. Among these 5 people, rsoul is my strongest scum-read so I'll use that as a springboard to see which of the other 4 could possibly be aligned with her, and also look into how that fits with the already flipped scum. | ||
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Not to rain on your parade here, but I already looked into the associations between clarity and kelsier/damdred. Damdred actually had clarity as one of his strongest scum reads and was actually the one I felt he elaborated the most on of his scumreads. So to say that he didn't pursue it is to misrepresent what he actually did. On July 07 2015 23:46 Damdred wrote: Good morning guys, i've caught up to the thread and would like to push you all to kill clarity today. I'm not going to bother posting tons of quotes so you should fact check yourself after you get done reading. The first thing of note to look at when it comes to clarity is his weird way of reading HF at the start of the game. Something that is really Non alignment indicative gets him to totally town read HF and say that in no way would he lynch HF today and he would totally fight against his lynch today. To me this is extremely odd, openings are usually not really that important and when informed that HF is the best (arguably) scum player on this site, the stance never changed and no fear is shown at all towards HF. The next thing that really bugs me about Clarity is lack of follow up and ignoring of questions. I think that is extremely scummy behavior, if you look in his filter you will see that multiple times I asked him questions about the town read he gave HF, any more reads and his reasoning behind voteing wave and open ended questions. He ignores them until I continue to push them down his throat. He has no real follow up which I think is damning. The weird vote and unvote has been talked about a bit by Marv as being really strange. Wave really really hasn't done jack all this game so not sure why he would unvote as it feels sorta like hes just going with thread sentiment to an extent and going where its safe. HF pushes wave goes to wave, thread goes against ritoky jumps to ritoky. Now is trying to get marv to tell him where to go. And has no real reads at this point. TLDR Has no fear of people he says are town, ie HF after one post Lacks follow through on some posts/questions Lacks scum reads Follows thread sentiment and jumps to another when its available instead of pushing what he thinks. This guy is scum vot ehim. | ||
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On July 18 2015 03:45 Vivax wrote: He did so veeeeery late. And dropped that as well in his later reads. Making one case that doesn't have any conviction throughout the game doesn't exclude it's a bus, it only means he made a well written case on a teammate for the reason you bring that up now. That is true, however after reading damdred's filter, he didn't really pursue any of his scum-reads at all. From the analysis I did earlier I felt like clarity was damdreds second strongest scum-read throughout the whole game. So no, he didn't push him very hard in a general sense, but did so in a relative sense compare to the other pushes he's done this game. And you can't really say that he dropped the scum-read because the last list post he made was just wifom after he already got caught. | ||
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I'm saying that damdred had clarity as his second strongest scum-read the whole game, and he didn't push hard on any of his scum reads in a general sense. | ||
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On July 18 2015 04:10 Vivax wrote: So what's the point of pointing out that he did push clarity if to you it should be meaningless? It's not meaningless. You have to evaluate people's actions in context of their other actions, not just in a general sense. You tried to push a case on clarity and I'm not going to sit here and just nod and agree to it when part of case has basis in what I consider a false premise. | ||
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On July 18 2015 04:11 Vivax wrote: I don't even care what you say past this point tbh, you're mafia for that bs. Good job mafia hunter elite Vivax. I'm glad to see that your mafia hunting skills have improved since your victim geript. Let's just stamp Clarity,rsoul and my name on the noose and ship this game shall we? | ||
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On July 18 2015 04:13 Vivax wrote: 'Also nice to see how rso was your scumread all along and now you're both holding hands and singing kumbaya. HAHAHAHAHAHAAHHA *catches breath* HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Sorry, you were saying? | ||
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On July 18 2015 04:25 Vivax wrote: Can anyone tell me how a guy with such a list of possible scummers shouldn't be drooling at my analysis? Instead he opposes everything I say? I wonder what his own arguments are for these people being scum, cause he sure didn't care to present them. Instead what we get is emotional, contradictory gibberish. I never said I wouldn't listen to your analysis. I won't listen to analysis that I consider based on false premises. Doesn't matter who the case is about or how much I scum-read them. | ||
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It's funny how of instead of actually going back and re-evaluating whether your case was indeed correct or have a discussion with me about it, you instantly jump on me and call me mafia for pointing out that I disagree with it. | ||
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On July 18 2015 04:30 Vivax wrote: So which one is your premise? That clarity has been pushed by Damdred or that Damdred didn't push his scumreads really? Cause you used both premises and they can't coexist. I already explained this: in context of damdreds pushes this game it's a strong push. in context of pushes in general it's not a very strong push. These 2 are not mutually exclusive. | ||
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On July 18 2015 04:39 Vivax wrote: Of course they are mutually exclusive, cause only one context can exist, unless you say that "this game" and "in general" are something different. So I'm saying in context of damdreds pushes clarity was one of his strongest. Yet you argue that he pushed other people harder than clarity, and I disagree, and I showed you why. And your instant reaction is to go "all you say is bs, you're mafia". Just because you spend a lot of effort on a something doesn't mean you're right. And if you expect people to swallow everything you say raw without scrutinizing it then you are delusional. | ||
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On July 18 2015 13:39 rsoultin wrote: no? like, that's what it seemed like he was saying, and i pressed him for it then because i was fairly certain that they were scum together, but he said that he was still pretty sure hf was town but wanted to lynch vivax and me ^^ like his reason for switching to hf was "to prevent scum switching off and forcing a no-lynch" which was like...dumb as hell? like why would scum prefer a no-lynch to an hf mislynch, and ruxx was "sure" he was town? and then he decided to switch back to me for like...what reason exactly? hf was getting lynched. it was all very nonsensical and looks more like...again...he didn't know what to do with himself near EoD just like with the bm lynch on d1 where he made a big commotion about shenanigans and not wanting a no-lynch while staying on the smaller wagon instead of ensuring that the lynch would go through when he'd said he didn't care which of the two was actually lynched like a lot of his posting looks like flailing around trying to figure out what to do. if you review his filter he has a shit-ton of preachy town should! townies should! rah rah you should! type of posting and seriously, bresh, if you see a town!hf and a town!rsoul going at it as scum, you really think scum wasn't capitalizing on that? there is no earthly way he could have been that sure about hf's alignment that early. no way. there is no earthly way unless you're completely misreading the thread that you can say that i instigated anything with hf until i brought my case on him d1 I adequately explained my reason for switching to HF last minute. On July 17 2015 06:55 ruXxar wrote: In case I am wrong on HF and there's mafia on him that's going to do some last minute shenanigans I'm going to switch to HF to ensure we don't get a no-lynch. Not sure how you managed to misinterpret that simple statement. Not knowing what to do with myself? My primary goal has always been to ensure that we don't have a no-lynch. We can't win as town if we don't lynch mafia. The reason I switched off HF is pretty easy to understand as well: If mafia switch off, then we know who the mafia are. Ergo, we are ensured to get mafia next day. I'm flailing around? No I'm pretty sure of what I want to do. This is all pretty simple in my head. There are almost certainly mafia in the HF vote and nothing is going to convince me otherwise. You are the scummiest person on that list. I don't see anything that prevents you from being mafia together with Kelsier or damdred. I don't see anything that prevents you from being mafia together with Trfel, Clarity, HTS, Obi or WoS. This day is pretty straight forward to me. ##Vote rsoultin. | ||
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Why rsoultin is scum: The "xP" usage. The numbers don't lie, it was a significant statistical difference. Stats aside, the way she was using them just looks bad. It's artificial and fake. It looks like an attempt and making her opinions less threatening. Trying to diffuse tension as to not get a backlash when she's talking to people. It's like saying "Hey i'm disagreeing with you but don't be offended by my opinion cuz xP". You basically take away any strength that is enclosed in your statement. You make it appear like you're giving an opinion, but the force behind the statement is gone so it's essentially meaningless. This is perfect for scum that wants to appear like they're active and giving an opinion, but does not want to offend anyone or be taken seriously because the tone of their posts is very jokey. Defensive post out of context. This post is super scummy. Like what is this even? On July 07 2015 07:31 rsoultin wrote: parrotstrike xP oh noooooeees i posted another xP oh wait there's another xP o.0 the xPs are just multiplying! xP xP xP xP xP ahem actually i misremembered lol >< i thought it was milo who actually called oats' case good disregard still, milo boring; could lynch lol >< i dunnae that i want to lynch scott even though he was the one i was referring to above...i remember liking some of his posting :/ (plus um, the lack of sense thing i've seen from him before in obs xP) YET ANOTHER xP! This is single-handedly the most scummy post she has made this game. This post appears on page 71. The last time anyone was seriously discussing this was over 20 pages ago. Yet she comes with this out of the blue, still hung up on it in her head, still needing to ridicule a case that was pushed on her because she felt threatened by the fact that it someone might actually still pick up on it. Why is she even in the mindset of doing that when that train had long passed? A town person wouldn't even care at this point, but as scum you're always paranoid that something is going to come bite you in the ass. And then she somehow tries to give an opinion on something in between there. This is the perfect case for why opinions given together with "xP" are essentially meaningless. You can't take anything she says in this post seriously. This post is so bad I'm almost willing to lynch her for this alone. Unable to clearly answer questions: Just read this conversation: (better read in the thread that in the quotes) + Show Spoiler + On July 06 2015 22:34 rsoultin wrote: Hf treating me like a pariah = prob scum i'll explain later Retracting hard townread on kels for pure retardation On July 06 2015 22:36 Harkon wrote: What is mafiaish about the retardation? You are being very defensive. On July 06 2015 22:39 rsoultin wrote: Nothing if you have the intelligence of a brussels sprout XP Xp xp xp xp What is that now? 30? On July 06 2015 22:42 Harkon wrote: Let's assume for a minute that my intelligence is above the level of a brussels sprout. Same question. On July 06 2015 22:47 rsoultin wrote: Swahili I'm saying retardation is only alignment indicative for intelligent people On July 06 2015 22:48 marvellosity wrote: so are you saying kels' retardation is alignment indicative then? On July 06 2015 22:50 rsoultin wrote: I'm saying it's retarded enough to doubt my townread on him Kinda amazing how this leads right back to what my post said when I first posted it ^^ On July 06 2015 22:52 marvellosity wrote: kinda amazing how i understand precisely what Hadron is getting at yet you keep not answering clearly On July 06 2015 22:55 rsoultin wrote: He clearly thought I was saying he was too stupid t get my read so are you sure you're actually following what he was saying? Lol On July 06 2015 22:56 Harkon wrote: I will make this easy to you since even though you are happy to ridicule my intelligence you do not seem to get what this is all about. Why do you doubt your townread on him? What about the retardation makes him scummy? Are townies not retarded? On July 06 2015 22:57 marvellosity wrote: the pertinent point being: why is what Kelsier did more mafia siding than town siding? What's the motivation to go to all that effort for something that was always a goose chase? especially as he totally backed off his read when he said he needed to check whether it was the same in the first 4 pages or not On July 06 2015 22:58 rsoultin wrote: ... See. He's clearly not getting it. I don't expect that level of stupid from kels. Specifically. Kels. On July 06 2015 23:00 Harkon wrote: You are the one not getting it. Ok, you do not expect that level of stupid. Why does it make him mafia? Why would mafia Kelsier be more likely to be stuopid than town Kelsier? On July 06 2015 23:02 rsoultin wrote: I'm done with this marv. I said hf prob scum and i'm retracting HARD giantess on Kels.. Tired of repeating myself, not do I have the time for it. Obv if he's scum that push is too stupid to.achieve anything anyway so why WOULD he hold onto.org? On July 06 2015 23:02 marvellosity wrote: you should be done with this because you're being absolutely appalling. On July 06 2015 23:06 Harkon wrote: ... Yes, you repeated yourself way too often. No, you never answered the initial question. If it makes no sense to do as scum why is he scummy for doing it? You aren't making sense. On July 06 2015 23:11 rsoultin wrote: Lol ruxx/hf prob scum Get rekt To the rest of y'all...learn to read On July 06 2015 23:13 marvellosity wrote: did you ever stop to consider, rsoultin, that the fact you have to moan at people not-reading things 100 times per game actually says a whole lot more about what you're writing than how people are reading? Did it? Because it should. think about it. it's you. it's not everyone else. it's you. What I see is a person unable to give a clear answer to a question, responds poorly to pressure and is unable to formulate a clear answer. Let me explain how what rsoultin said makes no sense: She said that kelsier was scummy for doing something retarded. On July 06 2015 22:34 rsoultin wrote: Hf treating me like a pariah = prob scum i'll explain later Retracting hard townread on kels for pure retardation She then said that retardation is mafia indicative for intelligent people(which she thinks kelsier is). On July 06 2015 22:47 rsoultin wrote: Swahili I'm saying retardation is only alignment indicative for intelligent people She then said that if kelsier was scum, then the kelsier push was too retarded to achieve anything i.e kelsier is town? On July 06 2015 23:02 rsoultin wrote: I'm done with this marv. I said hf prob scum and i'm retracting HARD giantess on Kels.. Tired of repeating myself, not do I have the time for it. Obv if he's scum that push is too stupid to.achieve anything anyway so why WOULD he hold onto.org? This last quote is the most peculiar one. She's claiming that kelsier is scum for making a retarded push on her. Yet he dropped the push because it wouldn't achieve anything anyway. So why did he make the push in the first place as scum if it was never going to achieve anything. She thinks kelsier is intelligent. but the the push he made was retarded. Yet somehow kelsier wouldn't know the push was retarded until AFTER he made it and not BEFORE? Absolute rubbish. The trfel case: Rsoultin had a town-read on trfel. Which is completely fine. But the way she went about disrupting HF from pushing Trfel is complete non-sense from a town perspective. She instigated HF into a shit-fight and insisted on interjecting, derailing the whole questioning of trfel and alleviating pressure off him when HF had legitimate concerns. This is how it went down: I expressed my concerns about rsoultins behavior, and accused her of disrupting trfel. Instead of coming back with a level-headed response she called my accusation a pile of shit and that I didn't read the interaction. Basically she dismissed it because apparently I hadn't read the interaction well enough. On July 08 2015 07:52 rsoultin wrote: do you even begin to realize how difficult it is for me to even bother finish reading this pile of shit when it's clear you didn't bother to actually READ our interaction? go away, or actually fact check your own fucking claims i've answered all your leading questions already i've formed my judgment on truffle and until i actually see anything to indicate otherwise, you can bite me i was right on gb. i was right on damdy. i was right on bugs. i was right on hf. i was right on you. and i was right on wave and oats. but instead of CONSIDERING after seeing my play last game and losing the game while ignoring my advice in your newbie, that i might actually have a good fucking toneread on truffle you try to paint it as me denying information? lol >< So I go back and re-read it again carefully for two reasons 1) To make sure that what I said was actually correct, I could've been wrong. 2) To bring her more concise evidence that she could dispute. So I do that and end up with the paraphrasing in my post here: On July 08 2015 08:50 ruXxar wrote: I read your interaction just fine. Let me recap my view of it, just so you can correct me if I'm missing something. 1st interaction: Starts here Recap: HF: "Trfel you are playing like burnt out mafia" RS: "I don't think he is, but I'll find out soon for sure" HF: "I don't need your opinion RS" RS: "Trfel is town, your reads are wrong!". HF: "I don't need you go away". Mod: Interrupts. 2nd interaction: Starts here Recap: HF: "I wanted to force Trfel to present his argument in a logical manner" RS: "HF is misrepresenting me and being a dick, I don't mind if you question Trfel" HF: (Posts quotes where you disrupted him from questioning) RS: "You were trying to shit on me!" HF: "I don't deny being a dick, but I was trying to pressure trfel to gain information" RS: "Stop questioning him so early! Let's talk about something else" (topic changed) 3rd interaction: Starts here Recap: HF: "Trfel there's an inconsistency in your read on LS, explain why". RS: "HF, you can't read!" RS: "I want to let trfel answer for himself, but you guys are too stupid!" HF: "How is that not reading?" RS: "Trfel already explained it!" HF: "Explained it how?" RS: "HTS saw the questioning, why don't you get it?" HF: "How does that explain him changing his stance?" RS: "You are stupid HF!" (Shitfight ensues, questioning derailed) It's all pretty obvious disruption from my point of view. Once again you're derailing. I'm not going away anytime soon. I bring her concrete evidence of what she's doing and link to the pages I get the paraphrasing from. And her response (knowing very well that what I've paraphrased is correct) Still insists it's incorrect as to not give credit to my case on her: On July 08 2015 09:57 rsoultin wrote: just because you paraphrase it this way doesn't make it correct ^^ why don't you talk to me about your other reads instead of trying to convince me i'm scum? you're clearly not attempting to determine my alignment at all with the bias-laden wording in your posts She even goes on trying to change the topic. Here I am bringing in a heavy accusation against her, and she just brushes it off as if it was nothing instead of actually trying to correct it or explain what she really was doing. I tell her that it's incorrect she has to tell me HOW it's incorrect or I'll assume that I was correct. My paraphrasing is pulled directly from the quotes in the thread, so there's a very small chance that it's incorrect, but I'm willing to listen if she can explain why. I'm not trying to push something on her that's contrived. I'm openly inviting everyone to review the interaction for themselves. This is not something I made up on my own, this is directly pulled from conversation in the thread. On July 08 2015 13:22 ruXxar wrote: If it's incorrect then you should correct it. If you don't I'll assume its correct. I went through all the posts and wrote down my interpretation of them. I don't need to convince you that you're scum, I'm trying to convince everyone else. What bias? This is my interpretation of the events. I encourage everyone that don't believe me to go read for themselves and make up their own mind. Yet she keeps insisting the my paraphrasing is faulty and that it's clearly wrong just by reading the interaction. Well I did read the interaction that what I got out of it is what I stated. On July 08 2015 13:28 rsoultin wrote: lol you're never lynching me off a faulty paraphrase, pup, and i don't feel the need to "correct" what is clearly visible just reading the posts i asked you what other reads you had an exercise! \o/ you treat me like you're reading me town and i'll treat you like i'm reading you town, even if i don't much believe it...this tunnel of yours is at best wrong and at worst scummy, so give me something else to read you off if you're actually town Again she's brushing off my paraphrasing as scummy instead of actually trying to explain what the correct way to read the situation was. Super scummy behavior trying to discredit my case on her by simply saying it's wrong instead of giving reasoning for why it's wrong. I later proved that my paraphrasing was correct when I pulled the quotes for paraphrasing: On July 12 2015 00:52 ruXxar wrote: My paraphrasing for comparison: + Show Spoiler + I read your interaction just fine. Let me recap my view of it, just so you can correct me if I'm missing something. 1st interaction: Starts here Recap: HF: "Trfel you are playing like burnt out mafia" RS: "I don't think he is, but I'll find out soon for sure" HF: "I don't need your opinion RS" RS: "Trfel is town, your reads are wrong!". HF: "I don't need you go away". Mod: Interrupts. 2nd interaction: Starts here Recap: HF: "I wanted to force Trfel to present his argument in a logical manner" RS: "HF is misrepresenting me and being a dick, I don't mind if you question Trfel" HF: (Posts quotes where you disrupted him from questioning) RS: "You were trying to shit on me!" HF: "I don't deny being a dick, but I was trying to pressure trfel to gain information" RS: "Stop questioning him so early! Let's talk about something else" (topic changed) 3rd interaction: Starts here Recap: HF: "Trfel there's an inconsistency in your read on LS, explain why". RS: "HF, you can't read!" RS: "I want to let trfel answer for himself, but you guys are too stupid!" HF: "How is that not reading?" RS: "Trfel already explained it!" HF: "Explained it how?" RS: "HTS saw the questioning, why don't you get it?" HF: "How does that explain him changing his stance?" RS: "You are stupid HF!" (Shitfight ensues, questioning derailed) It's all pretty obvious disruption from my point of view. Once again you're derailing. I'm not going away anytime soon. Interaction one: + Show Spoiler + On July 06 2015 15:22 Holyflare wrote: It seems you are suffering from consecutivemafiarollingitis and are subsequently burnt out. I am sorry for your loss. On July 06 2015 15:25 rsoultin wrote: heh, doubt it xP but i'll be more sure soon enough On July 06 2015 16:31 rsoultin wrote: lol wow you really don't get it, do you? truffle is fully capable of making shit up from a filter...as i understand it, that's how he was so successful his last scum game xP it's actually a fucking towntell for him to be taking his time to actually read through the thread instead of just throwing shit out there but keep barking about it On July 06 2015 16:39 rsoultin wrote: ^^ i understand what you're trying to push. i'm saying it's nai for truffle at best, that you're conveniently only focusing on his best qualities (that he's proven he's capable of replicating as scum anyway, so lol ><) and yes, i'm damn good at tonereading this kid. because i actually talk to him and KNOW him outside of these mafia games, which is definitely more than can be said for you On July 06 2015 16:40 Holyflare wrote: Yes go away then thanks. On July 06 2015 16:45 Blazinghand wrote: I haven't seen anything over the line yet, but I can taste the direction of the wind so I'd like to remind players that I am arbitrarily and unreasonably strict about behavior guidelines. I am more aggressive than most hosts about these things, and so to be safe you better just all play nice. This is not a warning. Interaction two: + Show Spoiler + On July 07 2015 02:36 Holyflare wrote: No it's not like that at all. Trfel is a consistently logical and well thought out player that posts a lot of what he thinks and is very opinionated ALWAYS. You can't possibly find a game in the database where he has ever opened like this at all. It doesn't exist. I have also played as mafia and try harded enough to experience the burnt out effect of mafiarollingitis. This looks like classic burnt out mafia rolling mafia again. That's not even the whole thing. You can see when he does actually try and start to contribute his posts ask circular questions that never meant to receive an answer that makes sense: It's not a thought process, it's literal questions for the sake of asking questions. On July 07 2015 02:39 Holyflare wrote: If by forcing you to read him one way or another you mean presenting logical and well thought out facts that counter your made up heresay facts from carol that ended up not even being true then sure. On July 07 2015 02:40 rsoultin wrote: "you're 100% scum no matter what you do hahaha" "shut up bitch stop interfering with my quizzing" not only was that blatant misrepresentation of what i was doing, but it started with me saying this? like, seriously? pretty damn obvious to anyone with a brain that all i was saying there was i didn't agree, and he comes back with: so not only is hf misrepresenting me, but he's going out of his way to be a dick about it at the same time, and if this is his idea of just "pressuring" or "quizzing" someone, it's sure not coming through in his posts i'm not usually this fucking paranoid, but after last game when hf and bugs spent d1/n1 deliberately shitting on me and trying to throw me on tilt...especially with how well we usually get along when he's town, i highly doubt this is town hf and i really don't care if the rest of you are too chicken shit to push him i'm tired of getting nkd and watching hf win again and again has trfel posted anything amazing? no. does that make him scum? no. i read him by his off-brand of humor and a few other indicators...i usually get a solid read on him within his first page of filter. i'm good at it. i don't give a damn if you question him, but hell if you're going to bully me into shutting up by slinging shit at me, hf On July 07 2015 02:42 Holyflare wrote: it's also pretty convenient you miss out these posts in your crappy narrative: On July 07 2015 02:44 rsoultin wrote: after you started shitting on me and trying to make it look like nothing i said was worth anything On July 07 2015 02:56 Holyflare wrote: I'm not sure how my posts in between are relevant at all since i'm not defending the stance that I was a dick. I'm saying I had a purpose and you repeatedly spewed tmi or an inability to see the direction of where things were going. If your read is null and someone is pushing something then I have no idea why you'd go in the opposite direction and defend them when your read is null. On July 07 2015 03:02 rsoultin wrote: lol >< and you started in on him before he'd even gotten a chance to settle in? of course he eventually did stuff, and i fully expect him to again this game talk about something else we're never going to agree on this Interaction three: + Show Spoiler + On July 07 2015 08:46 Holyflare wrote: nothing about LS has even changed inbetween On July 07 2015 08:52 rsoultin wrote: -twitches- i'm trying to let truffle answer for himself but the level of stupid/lack of basic reading comprehension -_- i'm just gonna go do my chem work On July 07 2015 09:01 rsoultin wrote: hts saw the questioning why are you so blind, hf? On July 07 2015 09:03 Holyflare wrote: QUESTIONING QUESTIONING what in his answers lead to him reversing his earlier stance why is he asking lightningstrike questions when he had the stance of not wanting to lynch him none of those are answers On July 07 2015 09:07 rsoultin wrote: -_- i have nothing productive to say to you if you can't connect that something in the response to those questions prompted that comment, whatever. at least acknowledge that the REAL problem is truffle isn't explaining where his head's at instead of trying to sell that his read changed for NO REASON with NO PROMPTING like seriously. the last time you pulled this shit it was with gb and claiming that the only reason he had to scumread...i don't even remember who it was anymore lol bf?...was because of one post simply because you arbitrarily decided to throw out the other reasons out before i start fighting with you again -_- At this point shitfighting begins There's more inbetween there, but this is the essence of it. This is what I view as disruption/deflection off trfel. I want to know why you did this. Not why you think trfel is town, but why you won't let HF push on him. What I want you to take from all this is not just the fact of her disrupting HF's questioning but the way she reacted when accused of it. Instead of saying "here's where you're wrong because I meant this and this", she instead calls my accusation a "steaming pile of crap" and "wrong". She tries to dismiss it and change topics instead of actually pointing out where I am wrong. That is scum behavior if I've ever seen it. Besides that, most of her filter is just fluff and useless comments. She's not critically thinking about the game or trying to infuse new thoughts. I see no resemblance of someone actually trying to solve the game. What has she done this game besides defending trfel, getting into shit fights and making useless comments? I'll be more than happy to lynch rsoultin today. | ||
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On July 18 2015 22:45 Clarity_nl wrote: Suddenly the xP thing is on the table again despite it being KSC that pointed it out. So in your world KSC points out something that makes rsoultin scum that early when it's true? Doesn't matter who pointed it out. It doesn't invalidate the point itself. And kelsier later retracted the point instead of pushing it, when his reason for retracting it was wrong, which oats pointed out: On July 06 2015 22:14 Oatsmaster wrote: wait wtf? she had 25 over the first 4 pages of this game. Your analysis sucks man. | ||
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On July 18 2015 22:57 Clarity_nl wrote: I'd have to check but you haven't used the xP thing since it's been brough up, until right now. If it made her scum then, why wait to bring it up until now? Your case just looks like you found everything in her filter that looked remotely scummy and just pointed at it and when: Look how scummy this is! I did On July 08 2015 05:30 ruXxar wrote: K so this is why I'm switching my vote to rsoultin: - Overuse of threat defusing emoticons(see xP). - Unable to answer an easy question in a clear manner. - 1 incredibly bad post out of context - Deflecting off Trfel for god knows what reason. Seems like scum defending town or scum defending scum. - Keeps tunneling HF all game without trying to really solve the game. ##Vote rsoultin | ||
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On July 18 2015 21:48 rsoultin wrote: okay. i'll bite did you ever, at any point, doubt hf was town before then? quote it ^^ why did you suddenly think he was more likely to be scum than town? cause, hun, i know you're smart enough to realize that doubting townies can switch off for a no-lynch just as easily as scum can save a scum partner, so for any of that to make sense you had to think hf was more likely to flip scum than town or be super illogical as a human being explain why he was scum to you just as everyone else was beginning to think he was town and while you're at it, why am i the "scummiest" person on that list? and nothing "preventing" me from being scum with someone is not the same as things actually suggesting that i am scum with someone, unless you think every single other player in this game has a reason preventing them from being scum with kelsier and damdy xP like who are my two scummates? and why was your call to arms while defending hf for the umpteenth time, but he's townier than rsoul! therefore he must be town and she is scum! what is this either/or bs argument you've got going down? what makes our fight impossible to come from two townies? cause, newsflash, it did, so obviously it's not impossible but you already know that, don't you? ^^ 1) HF was a null read until he started pushing trfel. After that point he stayed as a town-read and I did not see him doing anything after that to change my opinion of him to scum. On July 07 2015 09:47 ruXxar wrote: Pretty much my thoughts as well, I don't recognize Trfel at all. And I don't even know what Rsoul is doing, fucking deflection to the max. Am I the only one seeing HF making sense here? Jesus christ, the man just wanted an answer. Your deflection of trfel inflated my town-read of him further as I saw him being the towny one out of the two of you, actually trying to figure out the game and get information out of people. 2) I never thought he was more likely to be scum than town. In my mind my priority was Lynch > no-lynch. Then HF pointed out that if people switch off HF they're practically confirmed scum. Which I didn't consider before he mentioned it. 3) My strongest town-reads right now are : Oatsmaster - for previously stated reasons. Boxerfred - for previous reasons + the fact that he's pushing on you. I think your mafia partners are among these people HTS Clarity Trfel WoS Obi Breshke That's what's so great about you rsoultin. You haven't pushed or pissed of many people, and very few people have seriously considered you as scum which is why you fit in so many worlds. 4) Shitfighting in itself isn't alignment indicative. What I'm looking at is why it arised and what it accomplished. I found that your shitfighting disrupted the questioning of trfel which is why I'm scum-reading you for it. | ||
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On July 18 2015 23:52 Clarity_nl wrote: I'm around but been busy. I'm going to take some proper time to reread stuff tonight or tomorrow morning, simply haven't had the time. The HF stuff has demoralized me but I feel a surge of "let's solve this fucking game" oncoming. I do think ruxxar's push on your is super BS which strengthens my read, but that's just from keeping up with thread, I haven't read back. I have a little paranoia where rsoultin is pocketing me super hard BUT I always get this feeling in any game of mafia so.... I'll do some rereading but I expect rsoultin to be super town. Someone brought up she normally leaves a legacy as town but not as scum. I mean obv she wasnt getting nk'd thanks to HF, but can someone confirm this or point out a game where she leaves a legacy every night as town? Clarity: early on you were saying that the shitfighting between rsoultin and HF couldn't be a town on town or scum on scum interaction On July 10 2015 03:30 Clarity_nl wrote: I'm really struggling to see how both rsoultin and HF can be town with the way they're shitting up the thread every time they're both around. On one hand you would expect town!rsoultin to stop making weak attacks like "your vote is still on milo, HA, I caught you" but on the other hand you'd expect town!HF to stop writing paragraphs defending himself against every little thing if he thinks rsoultin is scum. On July 11 2015 02:50 Clarity_nl wrote: I'm not sold on MZ, although marv really likes his lynch so I guess maybe. In order I would like to lynch: Damdred Milo WoS MZ Vivax Rsoultin <- I have to read up on her and HF. I said much earlier in game I think their d1 stuff was town on town, but that was before it happened like 5 more times. I definitely don't think it's scum on scum, HF makes me nervous as his posts have gotten more and more emotional and less and less Need to read up on ruxxar and to a lesser extent HTS and boxerfred because they're kinda null in my mind. I expect the entire scumteam to be in the names I put in this post. What happened to this opinion? Did you just drop it at some random point? | ||
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On July 19 2015 00:51 Breshke wrote: why is EBH not scum ruxxar? Also if you think obi is scum you either think i got fairly unlucky or im scum.so the team would exactly be me rsoul and obi I haven't had the time to consider your claim yet. Talk to me about it. Why did you decide to jail Obi of all people and not one of the more highly contested people like me? I don't see a benefit for town fake claiming here unless they are in contention for getting lynched the next day. I could see town fake-claiming to save themselves if they had no other way of escape, and that they would also guard one of their strongest town-reads to protect them as well. I don't get the impression that OBI is your strongest town-read so that theory doesn't make sense. It seems like a very unnatural thought, and I don't think you'd think of making that play as town unless you were a real PR. The option as you say is that you're mafia and that you're trying to clear your scum-mate. However that would be an extremely high risk play since it brings a lot of attention to yourself when you weren't previously in contention for getting lynched, and as you said you could've saved it for later when it would've been even more effective. For now I'd like to give you the benefit of the doubt as I'm always weary of lynching PR claims. I wouldn't be surprised actually if you were PR since scum has had 2 RBer's this game which is unprecedented and really strong for a scum team. As for Obi, he could still possibly be scum just not a KP carrier (1/3 chance), so not going to give him a free pass for that just yet. | ||
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On July 19 2015 01:12 rsoultin wrote: -_- if that's what you thought why was bresh on your scumlist? + all the other dozen questions of mine you're ignoring ^^ I started considering it after he mentioned it? I'm working through your questions. If you feel like I'm not adequately responding to your questions just point them out and I will try again. | ||
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On July 18 2015 23:12 rsoultin wrote: point one: show me i haven't used it in my town games ^^ and prove that i was ever in any way being a scared little girl in my posting toward anyone point two: what was the context of that post? cause i think you missed it xP xP xP xP xP xP point three: i said and it's right in the part of the exchange that you're leaving out, that kelsier doing that made me doubt my townread on him, but it wasn't enough to scumread him for cause his early posting was still good. and when people asked me why town would back off it, i said that scum would know that was a shit push just as much as town would, so why would they hold it? like you're completely ignoring the part where i was still townreading him when i wrote that post even though that made me doubt his alignment some not only was i on my phone during that exchange, but people were misunderstanding everything i was saying and it was annoying. like you're still appparently doing point four: or...i saw you misrepresenting me and thought it was coming from scum so told you to f off ^^ you conveniently leave out the hour i took discussing every single part of your paraphrase that was wrong in a completely civil manner to try to get a read on you where you completely ignored anything i said, made it clear you weren't interested in really determining my alignment, and just kept repeating the same old thing even though i clearly demonstrated how you were misreading/misrepresenting my interactions with hf and the fight that he started and perpetuated! point five: prove i haven't done anything for this game. i dare you. my case on hf may have been wrong, but i didn't misrepresent anything. i didn't with scott, or milo. i doubted the mz thing and went back to look at the milo and rit claims. i tried to bring damdy to marv's attention. like how have i been doing nothing this game? 1) It's not that you don't use them, it's the fact that you're using them to defuse tension and diluting the strength of your statements. Also the statistics did show that you were using them more from a meta standpoint. Example: On July 06 2015 08:01 rsoultin wrote: lol well i don't really blame him xP with the way you climbed right up hf's ass first post of the game daaaaaamdy trash tier new method says ls town. so is my method just really trash or are you wrong on ls? xP 2) This is not a serious answer. I see no reason why you as a townie would still be thinking about this after the discussion had died out long ago. 3) You don't respond to my point here: You said that it's scummy for intelligent people to do retarded shit. You said kelsier is intelligent == his retarded push -> scummy. Yet you said this: Obv if he's scum that push is too stupid to.achieve anything anyway so why WOULD he hold onto.org? Explain to me how this makes sense and what the comment in the quote is supposed to mean If kelsier is intelligent why would he make a retarded push in the first place? And he even retracted it his by his own will, not because he got called out for it. So why would you say it's a scummy move and not towny? I don't understand your line of reasoning here. 4) I read your post and I wasn't satisfied with your answers. And you clearly were not willing to discuss it further, so why would I change my opinion? now i will ignore you unless you talk about something else or are actually willing to talk reads instead of whining about me being pissed at your misrepresentation and inattentiveness 5) Nobody is talking about misrepresenting here. I'm talking about what you've done, who you've pushed or scum-read. What case did you make on HF? Milo: I don't see any reasoning, just "Milo is weird, I want to lynch milo" Scott: Where did you push on scott? All I find is you making a few comments about scott and then putting him as your strongest scum read. Maybe you did push on someone and reason out your scum-reads, but your filter is so big of noise that I can't find it and I don't remember you saying it. | ||
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On July 19 2015 00:48 rsoultin wrote: what was townie about hf's push? why do you immediately jump to the conclusion (and never drop it) that there must be scum between hf and i? how is what i did this game different than what i did with gb in himalayas? why is lynching town!hf which you never doubted since early d1 (told you bresh!) better than a no-lynch? why do you think so many people in the game are scum? who is scum if you're wrong on me? (you are, btw xP) you don't believe the jk claim? why? i already proved that i didn't disrupt the "questioning" of trfel when hf first started and you got all hot and heavy for hf. he said something that seemed to be directed at me, i responded, he told me to fuck off and i got angry and told him that i thought trfel was town and am good at reading him. hf got even more dismissive. do you dispute that? think carefully. reread that section ^^ cause i don't even need to defend myself there; it's blatantly obvious to anyone with eyes, and a big part of why i thought (and still think) you were deliberately trying to make me look bad in your paraphrase that omitted a lot of the context of our argument 1) He found a discrepancy in Trfels meta play and I agreed with it, so he pushed him on it. He found a discrepancy in Trfel's read on LS, so he pushed him on it. Trfel was evasive in giving out his reads so he pushed him on it. All of these things I consider towny, do you not? 2) There's no universal law that says there has to be a scum between you and HF. The shitfighting itself is NAI, it's the way you reacted and why it arose and what it accomplished that's scummy, not the shitfighting itself. 3) Can you be more specific? 4) Because having someone as a town read does not mean that you know 100% that they're town, it just means that you think they have a higher chance of flipping town than other people, and I was actively trying to get other people lynched. 5) I do not think all of the people I listed are scum, I said that they could potentially be your partners. In fact my scum-reads were vivax and you, the rest of the people are more or less degrees of null <-> townreads. At this point I need to face the reality that some of my townreads are wrong, so I'm re-evaluating and those are the people I'm re-evaluating as potential scum even if I haven't found their play to be obviously scummy so far. 6) Answered this in another post. | ||
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On July 19 2015 04:03 rsoultin wrote: 1. these two had me doubting his alignment and thinking he could be town so obviously. you're ignoring his initial push where you first crawled up his butt though ^^ which wasn't meta. it was simply. you're not posting a few hours into d1. therefore you must be scum who rolled scum twice. that wasn't meta. frankly, that was 100% retarded of hf to think that regardless of trfel's alignment it would be effective pressure to just call him scum and say he'd never reevaluate...as town that's likely to just make people not even want to bother -_- and was a huge part of why i read hf scum 2. nope. explain. exactly. what. was. scummy. about. it. just saying it was scummy doesn't make it scummy and this feels like you're dodging my question because you have no good answer for it 3. >< you were in himalayas! you KNOW that i defended him from HF d1 off a TONEREAD which is what you are SCUMREADING ME FOR THIS GAME 4. nonononono if you think someone's town you try to NOT lynch them. this is bs. you say you didn't doubt. if you didn't doubt you didn't doubt. you don't get to have it both ways >< 5. okay. who is scum? you're wrong on me so if you're town, and you actually lynch me, when i flip town who is scum? you cannot literally only have one scumread at this stage in the game 1) It's not about his activity but about the content he actually posted. On July 06 2015 15:11 Trfel wrote: Any thoughts on private versus public education systems? On July 06 2015 15:18 Trfel wrote: Talk about something other than mafia.... How are those Spanish classes going? Tell me how these comments are relevant at all? HF thought it was mafiarollingtitis, I thought Trfel was playing strange. I think it's fine to pressure people early for less than obviously scummy reasons since you have very little substance to go off. The point is not so much what you are accusing them off as it is to judge their reactions. 2) It was scummy because you were disrupting the questioning of trfel. If you're pressuring someone and I come in an derail you, would you think I'm towny? 3) I'm not scum-reading you for town-reading anyone. I'm scum reading you for disrupting the push on trfel serveral times. 4) I disagree, i think a no-lynch is only a good option if it outs other mafia. Not that I'm very familiar with majority lynching, but this is my current opinion. 5) Like I said, I'm re-evaluating. | ||
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On July 19 2015 02:14 XEliteBlueHunter69X wrote: i dont know what to think, I stopped putting in serious effort so i wouldnt pay attention to my thoughts anyway because im barely reading this game. Reading vivax filter ruxxar is probably mafia. Please elaborate. | ||
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On July 18 2015 06:53 XEliteBlueHunter69X wrote: alright guys im claiming my role im actually politician I can manipulate a persons vote during the day phase, used it on clarity last phase and forced him to vote for HF. full role name donald trump, definitely town sided. I laughed my ass of at this btw. My new sig. | ||
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On July 19 2015 10:22 Clarity_nl wrote: If we're both town and we manage to both feel confident about this by tomorrow I think we can solve this game HtS. There's not a lot of wiggle room for scum, assuming at least 1 scum voted for HF (seems kinda hard for that not to be true) we'd only need to townread one or two people and we're there. I really don't think oats is scum, it would mean he figured out geript was blue on d1 and then decided to let him live (the VT PM + scumslip stuff) Anyway hopefully I can get a confident read on you in the morning. This is incorrect, oats thought geript was mafia and that it was a scumslip. I had this argument with oats where we argued about scumslips. I tried to subtly tell oats that geript could be a PR, but oats apparently didn't get the picture. On July 08 2015 01:28 Oatsmaster wrote: yeah so it was twice, once when i mentioned the 2 part scumslip, then the next time when I reminded people. Whats your problem? Dont you think its a scumslip? On July 08 2015 01:36 ruXxar wrote: I can think of other reasons.... I wouldn't take that risk day 1. On July 08 2015 01:37 Oatsmaster wrote: WHAT RISK IS THERE? HOW IS THAT NOT A SCUMSLIP. Wave, how is that being a dick? | ||
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Funnily enough this is the same case that led me to believe that oats is town, when he clearly alluded to his own town role PM. | ||
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I'm mostly disappointed in breshke for switching off rsoultin when we had 6 on her. Rsoultin is pretty much confirmed scum since she didn't get hammered by mafia, it was the easiest hammer ever if scum wanted a mis-lynch. Only way rsoul is town here is if all 3 mafia are already voting for her. The fact she doesn't seem aware of this and includes someone outside the vote on her in her scumteam(clarity) makes me even more certain. | ||
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On July 21 2015 04:07 ruXxar wrote: Not sure how we managed to get a no-lynch there /facepalm. I'm mostly disappointed in breshke for switching off rsoultin when we had 6 on her. Rsoultin is pretty much confirmed scum since she didn't get hammered by mafia, it was the easiest hammer ever if scum wanted a mis-lynch. Only way rsoul is town here is if all 3 mafia are already voting for her. The fact she doesn't seem aware of this and includes someone outside the vote on her in her scumteam(clarity) makes me even more certain. Right now the people voting on rsoul look damn towny to me. There's no way mafia would risk a mis-lynch of their team-mate by letting her sit at 5 votes when 1 vote switch would lead to a mis-lynch of their team mate. This currently puts my world like this: rsoultin (5): boxerfred, ruXxar, XEliteBlueHunter69X, oatsmaster, WaveofShadow XEliteBlueHunter69X (5): Clarity_nl, OWS, trfel, breshke, rsoultin Clarity_nl (1): HTS | ||
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Explain why my logic is wrong. | ||
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On July 20 2015 22:10 rsoultin wrote: @ruxx...i really need you to explain your masons thought process to me and when you thought they were no longer masons Mason read on clarity: First time I mentioned it in thread was day 1: On July 07 2015 07:47 ruXxar wrote: A thought just struck me about HF and clarity. Willing to give clarity some more time. Top 2 scum atm: Trfel Rsoultin ##Vote Trfel Poked him about it N1 to see where he stood on HF(#scumslip): On July 09 2015 03:57 ruXxar wrote: @clarity: if I said I wanted to shoot HF tonight, would you be upset? On July 09 2015 04:10 Clarity_nl wrote: This question is insanely dumb on so many levels, why are you asking it? Please explain what you're hoping to get out of this? The fact that his instant reaction wasn't "don't shoot HF" made me think it was less likely that they were mason partners. On day 2 when he started trying to solve the game with the cops / checks etc is when I started getting a town-read on him. After that the mason thought sort of left my mind and got replaced with just a regular town-read. I didn't see any further interaction between them would lead me to think they were masons. I wasn't here because of IRL commitments + preparing for first workday after vacation. I was reading now and then on my phone. | ||
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She could've hammered EBH if she wanted to and no one would've scum-read her for it. I think EBH is town -> HTS is town. rsoultin (5): boxerfred, ruXxar, XEliteBlueHunter69X, oatsmaster, WaveofShadow XEliteBlueHunter69X (5): Clarity_nl, OWS, trfel, breshke, rsoultin Clarity_nl (1): HTS | ||
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On July 21 2015 05:35 rsoultin wrote: eh i'm going to have to crosscheck that ruxx, an exercise! \o/ pretend i'm town for a short while who is scum? Boxerfred, wave, EBH. | ||
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1-shot jailer with no way to ever verify it being true? That's basically a free town-read for the rest of the game. People are naturally hesistant to lynching PR claims, and the fact that there are 2 RBers in the game makes the claim even more believable. The fact that he switched off rsoultin also points in the direction of him being scum. Does this make OWS scum? Not necessarily. OWS could be town and mafia could just NK him last to win the game. It's a believable JK target so it fits into the fake-claim. rsoultin (5): boxerfred, ruXxar, XEliteBlueHunter69X, oatsmaster, WaveofShadow XEliteBlueHunter69X (5): Clarity_nl, OWS, trfel, breshke, rsoultin Clarity_nl (1): HTS[/QUOTE] | ||
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On July 21 2015 06:51 boxerfred wrote: ah okay, didn't read those explanations. makes sense. but could also be a "don't get me hanged" thing. another possibility would be that both EBH and rsoul are scum. however in every of those scenarios, rsoul is scum. lynch rsoul. easy. kk? Yep. | ||
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In my mind mafia most likely: Rsoultin, Trfel, Clarity. | ||
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On July 21 2015 09:00 Trfel wrote: I think I really like this read. I don't know what to make of ruXxar's logic being so incorrect. And him missing End of Day without warning, then coming back and just being apparently frustrated for the no-lynch. It sort of feels like mafia getting lazy near the end of the game, but I really don't know. Also, it seems that my list post was pretty stupid, as most people have the same scumreads as me. Oh well. How is my logic incorrect? In what world does mafia NOT hammer a townie with 5 afk votes on him? No world if you ask me. This makes the game really simple and I see only 2 possible solutions: World #1: Rsoul is mafia. The mafia team is rsoul, clarity and trfel. World #2: Rsoul is town. All 3 mafia are already voting on her. The mafia team is BF, Wave and EBH. | ||
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On July 21 2015 16:18 Clarity_nl wrote: Trfel your whole "scum don't care if they lynch scum" argument is dumb. You're right there are the same amount of days but the amount of info from any of the 3 scum flipping will likely solve the game. You misread, what he's saying is that for mafia there is a neglible difference between a no-lynch and a mis-lynch on town. I'm still trying to make sense of how that fits with yesterdays voting. Can we safely make the assumption that the scum team was aware of this and not really caring one way or the other? If we do, then the only safe assumption about yesterday is the fact that mafia wanted to avoid a mafia lynch. I'll give you my thoughts after work tonight. | ||
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After trfel presented the argument that scum would do just fine with a no-lynch, I went back and looked at how teams could align if mafias primary goal was to not lynch one of their own. This is world #3: Rsoultin is town. Mafia is : Boxerfred, wave + trfel/clarity. In this world trfel and clarity are not the same alignment. Clarity/trfel and ebh are not the same alignment. I'm more inclined to believe that trfel is the scum on this team due to the fact he's the only one to present the logic that a no-lynch is just fine for mafia. (But why would he need to tell us in the thread you ask? It's a wifom play, none of him or his partners are in danger of getting voted out. He gets town cred for trying to solve the game). Clarity would be scum due to the way he just left his vote on EBH and went afk. He did say he was going afk, but it fits really well with a mafia plan of a no-lynch. However he later seemed unaware of the scum benefit of a no-lynch. I do find it hard to believe that boxer fred is mafia with the way he's been dropping dumb tells about scum mechanics though. Either way trfel and clarity fit in both world #2 and #3 as mafia. Clarity already has a train on her and the current votes line up with my #3 scum team. Right now I'm convinced there is a mafia between trfel and clarity. I'll have to review a couple more things before I decide. | ||
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Lynching into clarity/trfel is the best chance we have of hitting scum IMO. | ||
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On July 22 2015 17:45 Oatsmaster wrote: can you give me a single reason that trfel is mafia? PoE. He's mafia in one of my three worlds and has a 50% chance of being mafia in another. | ||
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Actions and motivations speak louder than words. You can fake words, you can't fake votes. To not get stuck in a web of uncertainty I need to ground myself in some solid assumptions that can form the basis of my reads. My assumptions about scum was this: #1) Scum does not want to risk scum getting lynched if they can avoid it. #2) Scum will hammer town if it does not bring them negative exposure. The fact that rsoultin sat with 5 afk votes all day and no one hammered her was an extremely strong point for her being scum. The fact that the 5 people sitting on her never switched off her is a strong point for the people voting on her being town. If rsoultin was scum and she was being bussed, her team members would've switched off her to make sure she didn't run the risk of getting hammered by town. This led me to my scum-team of : Rsoultin - Clarity - Trfel. My previous reads all got messed up when Trfel pointed out that scum is fine with a no-lynch as well. The question still remains whether mafia was aware of this and playing according to this. I can't know for sure, but I'm not going to assume the scum-team is stupid. So my new working assumptions are these: #1) Scum does not want to risk scum getting lynched if they can avoid it. #2) Scum are fine with either a mislynch or a no-lynch. Using these assumptions, the fact that rsoultin didn't get hammered is not a scum-tell, since mafia is fine with a no-lynch. This means that the people voting on rsoultin are no longer town-cleared for voting on scum. The fact that mafia are fine with a no-lynch means that they have no need to make any strong pushes unless town are consolidating on mafia. This means that the people afking and not pushing hard for a push are more suspect. I don't think trfel and EBH are scum together. Trfel would've hammered EBH if HTS didn't switch off. Trfel also really wanted EBH to hammer clarity, which I don't think trfel does if he's scum with clarity. The lines become really blurry at this point, but my 2 strongest town-reads I want to hold on to are: -Boxerfred is town. -Oatsmaster is town. With these 2 as town and my own arbirtrary judgement of each persons actions I can form a lot of scum-teams, however my strongest scum-teams all things considered are these: #1) Rsoultin, Clarity, Trfel. #2) Clarity, wave, EBH . Individually I still think rsoultin is the scummiest, but clarity fits in both worlds. The lines are really blurry at this point, and I hate trfel for bringing the no-lynch outcome to my attention and shattering my simple world view. Doubt is seeping into my head as my logic is washed out by the possibilities. My gut still tells me to lynch rsoultin, but I think clarity fits in both worlds. | ||
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On July 23 2015 00:37 Clarity_nl wrote: So either I'm scum with rsoultin and I'm pushing her today, or I'm scum with EBH and I just afk'd my vote on him yesterday when he looked the clear lynch. Try to explain that one. You afk'd your vote on EBH when he had 0 votes. Doesn't mean much. You're not pushing on rsoultin, you still think she's town. You're only voting her since there's no other options. On July 22 2015 07:26 Clarity_nl wrote: Nah I think you looked townie from the fights with hf (I realize I've changed my opinion on this often). I mean, I think you're probably capable of playing a good scumgame. Are you scum this game? Ugh, honestly it's hard to tell, take it as a compliment. If I had to put money on it I'd say you're town, although that's on your play alone, when it comes to poe... it's a toss up. | ||
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If it's not you, then who? Try to put together a team of 3 that makes sense in your world. | ||
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On July 23 2015 01:17 Clarity_nl wrote: WoS, rsoultin, trfel WoS, trfel, ruXxar are the most likely. Could you give a short explanation of why those teams fit together? I also don't see EBH on your lists, what happened to him? | ||
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So it turns into wifom city and I can't really use it to determine alignments either way. It's just that I can't step away from the thought that the natural reaction for scum is to lynch town. Like, if I was to list the people I think are smart enough to reason out the line of thinking that a no-lynch is prefered over a mis-lynch it's basically only Trfel and WoS amongst all the people here.(no offense to the rest) Also the trfel / rsoultin association has been so strong for so long. I think that a Rsoultin / wos / trfel team is not out of the question. It fits pretty well to be honest. My only resistance is the fact that wave hammered rsoultin and also risked rsoultin getting hammered by town when she was left with 5 votes all day, which makes a wave / rsoultin team look very unlikely :/ | ||
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On July 23 2015 02:23 Oatsmaster wrote: Ive never found this to be too accurate, it doesnt hurt mafia to say that. Yeah, that's what I'm thinking too. When I played scum last game, when we did some smart stuff, I actually was one of the first to put the ideas out there before anyone else, just to make it look like I was trying to consider all the possibilities. The fact is that it's very unnatural for town to even consider that line of thinking of whether a no-lynch is as good as a mis-lynch. It's not in your natural path of thinking unless you are scum. | ||
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On July 23 2015 02:30 Trfel wrote: There were so many discussions over the number of lynches and potentially no-lynching in the thread, I'm positive that the mafia figured it out. When I played as mafia, I always wanted to know how many more mislynches I needed (so I could know when I could stop playing). RuXxar, can you please stop making association reads and assumptions and make your reads primarily based on whether or not their play fits a mafia motivation? I already did that, read my last big post. | ||
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Just lynching the scummiest person is not going to win you the game. I've seen enough times how the towniest looking people are actually scum. I'm trying to be as logical as I can about this and try to not let emotions get in the way of my decisions here. | ||
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On July 23 2015 02:43 Trfel wrote: On the contrary, lynching the scummiest people WILL win you the game, and that is the best way to do it. The key is how you use the word "scummy". Some things are commonly called "scummy", such as being inactive, making bad posts, making bad reads, having logic gaps, and lots of things that are objectively bad play. However, these things don't necessarily make someone scum. If you simply lynch the objectively "worse" players, who are playing objectively "worse", you will probably lose the game. But if you lynch based on mafia motivation and reads which are truly alignment indicative, lynching the "scummiest" players (by these standards) is a thousand times better than using unflipped associations. I couldn't agree more. It's about what people define as scummy and I've tried to challenge this idiom a couple times because people just try to look at who plays the most anti-town and define that as scummy play, when anti-town and mafia motivated are two completely different things. | ||
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Want to say I don't like the majority lynch system :/, don't think I'll play games with that system again. Special MVP mention goes out to BF and Oats <3. | ||
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