/in
Newbie Student Mafia XIII
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n00bKing
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n00bKing
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On July 21 2015 02:05 LightningStrike wrote: Bill Murray is going to be my Cohost for this game! I wonder if he'll make more posts as a Co-Host than I've seen him make in games as a player. :D | ||
n00bKing
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On July 23 2015 06:41 Tictock wrote: I'm helping HtS cohost Mafia Down Under and have been waiting on Cannons to start (maybe it will... one day) so honestly this game woulda gotten the short end of the stick of my attention if Cannons gets going. Co-hosting probably requires more attention than playing Cannons. I think Cannons could be fun, but thinking in that game is somewhere between "optional" and "pointless." | ||
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On July 24 2015 03:02 Half the Sky wrote: Sorry Barakos It would be bad news for me even more if you roll vig. Pissing off the vig is not a good idea. Except that YOU aren't in the game. lol On July 24 2015 03:02 Half the Sky wrote:But if Flexes is in, he can take your place. Him and Mage can go through special initiation If I got "special initiation" in my first game here, I didn't notice it. heh | ||
n00bKing
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On July 24 2015 03:35 Rels wrote: Seems like it's starting tonight, cant' wait (=(= even though I will be sleeping when it starts Get ready to wake up to 9 votes on you! :D | ||
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On July 24 2015 03:49 NocturneMage wrote: I am excited for my first game here, though nervous. Having read other games, seems like some people lose their heads in this game? I was hesitant to join because of that. Most of the hotheads and rude players don't seem to be on the signup list for this game. So hopefully you'll be okay. | ||
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On July 24 2015 07:03 ruXxar wrote: Thank god I feel so free. No restrictions or leashes on me this game. The air smells so good when you can take the time to actually stop and enjoy the scene. No looking behind your shoulders, no worries of scrutiny. ##Vote: ruXxar There ya go. How about now? :D | ||
n00bKing
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On July 24 2015 07:08 NocturneMage wrote: RNG gave me town, thank God. Meh, I don't get people's reluctance to play as Scum. Granted, this is only my third game here, but I think it'll be exciting, whenever I finally get a chance to kill some of you people. Blue role? Sure, cool, I'll take that. But I'd rather be Scum than VT (maybe I'll feel differently once it actually happens.) | ||
n00bKing
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Don’t babble. If you speak without having a clear goal in mind, you impede the town and decrease everyone else’s productivity. This paralyzes town analysis and decision-making and allows mafia to hide in the chaos Not totally sure that ruXxar is in violation yet. But...it kinda seems like it. He knows that some of us have seen him play as both allegiances already, so I'm not a fan of him making this wild change in his posting style. It could serve as a decent smokescreen. | ||
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On July 24 2015 07:59 disformation wrote: Also if you are able to keep this style up all game I will be super impressed. =D Don't encourage him. lol | ||
n00bKing
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On July 24 2015 08:06 disformation wrote: Eh, I like this style/tone a lot more than the one he had in his two previous games. Meaning Himalayas and Gaiden, where he was scum? I didn't play in either of those games. How would you summarize his style/tone in them? | ||
n00bKing
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On July 24 2015 08:47 disformation wrote: So far only 4/13 players have posted. Bit of shame. False. Barakos and rayn each made a throwaway post after the Day started. If we decide to "lynch all liars" we can start with you! \o/ | ||
n00bKing
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On July 24 2015 09:08 Barakos wrote: And then I come to reread and ruxxars style just gives me more headaches. -.- Dunno, what to make of it atm, last time someone used poetry in a game it confused the hell out of me and 2 of the 3 reads I got from it were utter bullshit, so for now, I'll not jump to any conclusions about ruxxar, based on that style, but would really appreciate it, if this changes sometime soon... I think I'm in the same boat with you. I don't want to tell anyone how to play, but I would rather see that stop. Barakos wrote: Kinda strongly dislike rayn for coming in and making an alibi-post, that kinda reads like he won't be here for the rest of the dayphase... let's just hope, that's not the case and there will be more posts from him. I'll be pretty surprised if he just completely bails on Day 1. What kind of example would that set for the newbies?! Barakos wrote: Noobking - totally top town for being able to count lulz | ||
n00bKing
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On July 24 2015 10:05 MoosyDoosy wrote: ayeeE this is our 3rd game together n00bKing. Yep, and my 3rd game total! I noticed ruXxar said this is his 4th game. I need to make sure he plays in my 4th Newbie game, so that I can see him listed as a "Veteran" and my mind can = blown. PS: Are you Scum? | ||
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On July 24 2015 10:11 Flexes wrote: i don't know why ruxxor is so defensive about his "posting style" when the accusation against him is so baseless. What is "the accusation against him?" ruXxar hasn't posted since Breshke said he thought he was Scum, so you can't say anything about ruXxar seeming defensive about that. You must mean something else? | ||
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On July 24 2015 10:20 MoosyDoosy wrote: On that note n00bKing you seem a lot more friendly in this game than in others. At least you're posting a lot more fluff here and responding to more stuff than going down to business like you normally would. Any particular reason why? Because I am Scum too. Didn't you see me say hi to you in the QT? Aside from that, having so much crossover in the player lists for the Newbie games is making it feel more like a "community" I guess. In the first game, I didn't know anyone so there wasn't anything to do but get down to business. I am also in a lighter mood because my move is finished (whereas it was in-progress during the first game, and I was busy unpacking all the time during the second game) and because my birthday is this weekend. w00t! But I think people will find some "down to business" in at least a few of my posts so far. And that will continue. If it doesn't, I fully expect to be called out on it. | ||
n00bKing
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On July 24 2015 10:23 MoosyDoosy wrote: /facepalm. I just realized that Sulfurus was in this game and that his first and only post was /in. I'm tempted to lynch him because it's my third game with him as well and he's rolled Mafia Godfather the last two times. Yeah, I actually thought my initial vote would be against Sulfurus, and then when someone asked why I made the vote, I would be like "Because he's the Godfather?" But then ruXxar made his post about how nice it felt to be carefree and under no scrutiny, and I felt compelled to put a vote on him, just to interrupt his nirvana. I'll be interested to see what Sulfurus brings to the table in this game. I felt like it was pretty easy to distinguish his scum game in Newbie 12 from his Town game in Newbie 10. | ||
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On July 24 2015 10:38 Damdred wrote: Yes I actually disagree quite strongly with the ruxxor scum read currenty, the posts just feel to free to me even if people are annoyed with the style. From what I read you currently scum read him for not trying to discern the alignment of people currently. Apparently Damdred learned a new word today, and is very excited to try it out! On July 24 2015 10:38 Damdred wrote: While I think its true he hasn't posted many reads at this juncture I think there are some fairly obvious things that are different this game than his other games as scum Can you tell us what those "fairly obvious things" are? One way that I've seen scum players create filler is to talk about how a player's behavior is different from this game or that game, without being specific about how. You mention him seeming happy, is there more to it than that? | ||
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On July 24 2015 10:46 Breshke wrote: I'm going to cut in here and say im fairly sure damdred was being obtuse because he wants to see what moosey says. I think that maybe "obtuse" is not the word you meant to use here. Otherwise, this post is really strange... | ||
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Okay. Vague (or even "obscure") would definitely make more sense than "obtuse." Anyway, I can apologize to Damdred if I stepped on his toes there, but it's definitely true that I've seen Scum players make posts that sounded just like his. Just to make it look like they were making posts, and taking positions. | ||
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On July 24 2015 11:12 Damdred wrote: I think the general thought that I haven't taken a stance is incorrect. I don't believe anyone said you haven't taken a stance. Speaking just for myself, what I wanted was to know what your stance on ruXxar was based upon. To say that "there are some fairly obvious things that are different this game than his other games as scum" is a really powerful statement. And like I mentioned, scum will sometimes talk about how a person is playing differently than other games, but then not go into specifics. So I wanted to see specifics. You've now added a second way in which ruXxar's play is different from his scum games, so my line of questioning is having the desired result. As I see it, you're saying that ruXxar's play in this game is different from his scum games in these two ways: A) He is free/happy B) He is not giving his rsoultin/oprah impersonation My follow-up questions would be: 1) Anything else? Or do those two things cover it for now? 2) What is an rsoultin/oprah impersonation? That means nothing to me. | ||
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So this was the first post that was made after I left. I'm really surprised to see that no one has commented on it, in the 10 pages that have followed. Sulfurus definitely could not say the same about me, unless he knows me from outside these forums, and just hasn't told me so. On the off chance that Sulfurus actually participates more today: What did you mean by that? And otherwise: Can anyone else make sense of what he's saying there? | ||
n00bKing
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On July 24 2015 17:53 Rels wrote: This first post from NocturneMage seems very prepared to me. And prepared post = scumlean. Why is it prepared ? Let me show you. RNG gave me town, thank God. I'm having a beer or two. Might be three. Not sure yet. <= VT claim + fluff about beer. ruXxar sounds like he's sick of playing scum though. <= Discussion about something in game. Although if the moderator is going to make this a Pokemon themed game, I really don't know what to say. <= Funny remark about host. So three different subjects in first post = prepared post. And prepared post means he may be afraid to post, hence why he prepared it so much. All of this seems terrible. 1) Where are you getting the idea that there is a VT claim in there? 2) As has been mentioned, it doesn't make any sense to say that these three things add up to a "prepared post" when two of them are reactions to things that happened after the game began. So you changed gears and said that by "prepared post" you mean he thought about it a lot before posting, rather than meaning he prepared it before the game began. That explanation is hard to believe from you, because that's NOT how the term "prepared post" is used. It looks like you're changing your story after it's been pointed out that what you said can't be true. 3) Even if you DID mean "thought about it a lot before posting" from the get-go, how does it take a lot of thought to make either the second or third comments? Why are those not immediate off-the-cuff remarks, where he just put his thoughts to the page as soon as he had them? | ||
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On July 24 2015 18:29 Rels wrote: If you played or read Newbie X, I would like to have your thoughts on Barakos' filter compared to Newbie X. I read Newbie X. At the time you made this post, Barakos didn't hardly HAVE a filter yet. I have read his filter just now, and will comment on it more later, though it continues to be very short. His filter from Newbie X was not short, but I also found his play in Newbie X to be completely unmemorable. He was one of only 2 players in that game that were basically null for me the entire way. sicklucker, ninjabunnies, those were players who made an impression. Plotspot made an impression. Ticktock's ludicrous tunnel of a very obviously Town Plotspot made an impression. I remember Breshke being the guy who was always saying things that didn't match my thoughts, but that seemed very Townie. While you (Rels) were the guy who was always saying things that WERE exactly my own thoughts. But Barakos was just...around. He was "also in that game" is what I remember about him. Looking at that filter now, he is sometimes authoritative, and likes to redirect discussion in the places he wants it to go. One big difference between that game and this one is that he came right out of the gate with a vote in that game, whereas he still has yet to vote in this game. His Town game from Newbie X looks fairly easy to replicate as Scum (which is probably why I never had a good townread on him in that game) but although it won't mean much if he DOES replicate it, it may mean something if he continues to NOT replicate it. On July 24 2015 18:29 Rels wrote: And whoever you are, I would like to have your thoughts about my post on NocturneMage. Way ahead of you. | ||
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On July 24 2015 21:55 Rels wrote: OK that makes little sense to me that you have two separates explanations for a sentence containing 7 words. I think I may be able to clear up this misunderstanding between Rels and ruXxar. When ruXxar says "it's from another voice mafia game" he could be talking about the "finnski claims cop" line, instead of still talking about the Yakuza claim. | ||
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On July 24 2015 19:41 Tictock wrote: Drew a few cards for some of ya. I would appreciate it if you could take a look at your card and give me your impression of it. NO. disformation wrote: Hmmm... I know these cards have meanings. Do you have any interpretation of these? Can you link these interpretations to their posts so far? Can I has a card, too? Do NOT do this. If Ticktock is clogging up the thread with that useless filler, why would you engage him about it? Make him play the game for real, as you see other players demanding him to. | ||
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On July 24 2015 22:58 NocturneMage wrote: I'm looking through ruXxar's posts and just ignoring his poetry for now. The poetry alone makes him high, not mafia. My inclination to read him null or slight mafia at best comes from his hesitation in reading noobking and even after later pages he talks to noob but doesn't have a read on him. I can't see a reason for that. He calls him edgy and stiff and this is in spite of saying he's going to engage in his own way. He doesn't seem to be committing to an actual read on n00bking, and mafia need to make up reads, so this appears to me he's trying to do something like that. The response to Breshke makes no sense...."between town and PR" I'm guessing that means power role? If so, why are you suggesting who might be a power role in the open? Because ruXxar does stuff that he shouldn't. Get used to that. In any case, the response to Breshke that you just mentioned shows that ruXxar DID give a read on me. Which seems to wreck the rest of your post. Are there any other reasons why you would scumlean ruXxar? | ||
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On July 24 2015 23:19 MoosyDoosy wrote: Bro, what the fuck is the point of all this spam when all you're going to say is "i don't know" from your reads of the reactions to your spam? You got the reactions you wanted. Multiple conversations have started from those reactions. It's time for you to get down to business, drop the act, start posting reads, and start to help town. Don't you realize? No one is taking your poetry spam seriously anymore and it's already lost its desired effect. So hurry up and do something productive. This post from me will probably not be productive. But I don't think I can keep myself from making it. First off, ruXxar comparing me to a "shiny dodacahedron" almost makes everything else he said in his annoying posting style WORTH it. Almost. Second, I have to wonder if your post to him is just copied and pasted from things I said to you in Newbie XII, when you were being equally useful. My efforts to make you wake up and start participating in the game took quite a while to have any effect. | ||
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On July 24 2015 23:42 ruXxar wrote: Damdred: - don't like opening post, forced. - tone read on me, same read he had last game when he was mafia, too certain. ...weren't you scum in that game too, though? If you're Town this game, then being suspicious of him because he reads you the same way he did when you were both scum is...curious. | ||
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On July 25 2015 01:45 MoosyDoosy wrote: Can I just point out this shitty play for you all? If we're trying to create a good town atmosphere you're supposed to accept what people say and bounce thoughts off of others to create a productive atmosphere. Statements like these just brushes other's thoughts away creating a shitty atmosphere. I don't think it is reasonable for you to expect ruXxar to just "accept what people say" when what you're saying is that he's a godawful idiot. No one wants to believe that about themselves. And he is right about what he says in that quote. I have definitely seen Mafia players attack Townies on a personal level instead of attacking their arguments, for at least a couple of reasons. For one, attacking their arguments could be difficult, if they're RIGHT (not saying that's the case here) and secondly, because attacking the Town player on a personal level can make them emotional, and if they're reacting emotionally, they aren't thinking logically. | ||
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On July 25 2015 03:05 raynpelikoneet wrote: Rels i thought Mooseguy is town for this post: That's how i tend to post sometimes. It's how a few of the veterans around here post sometimes. And Moosy has picked up some of the mannerisms and stylings of those players. Just because he now says something that sounds like "how you tend to post sometimes" doesn't mean it is anything like how he would have tended to post before he got here. You see the same thing when some of the Newbs will start playfully taunting one another and calling each other "bby" with winky faces. It's mimicry. I don't think this makes Moosy more suspicious, because I've seen the same mimicry from him when he was Town. But don't let it make you think he is LESS suspicious, either. | ||
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On July 25 2015 03:20 raynpelikoneet wrote: He is clearly lying since he should be interested in what i said about him: - He kinda called me mafia as a part of his "reaction test" - He literally should expect a reaction (that results in a read or questions) from me - Three people called him mafia, me, you and Damdred - He gives a TOWNREAD on you two (yeah like if he is town why the fuck would you and Damdred be TOWN for calling out scummy stuff that a townie did? like if i was mafia i would totally jump on that - there is no reason to give you a townread for it in the first place) yet he has NOTHING to say about me, who HE called out in the first place. It is definitely possible that Barakos is scum. If he's scum, then I want you (rayn) to be successful in this attempt to get him lynched. But for you to get him lynched, your reasoning has to be sound, or Barakos can CORRECTLY point out the flaws in your arguments. So you need to be fair here, and try to get him lynched for things that ACTUALLY happened, and not just say whatever you think makes him look the worst. He didn't call you mafia in his reaction test. He said he disliked you for making an alibi post. And when someone quickly asked him point-blank about whether he meant that he just disliked the post in general, or if he thought the post was mafia-indicative, he said that he only disliked the post in general. Even so, I agree with you that he should expect a reaction from you. That doesn't mean that he's intending to gauge your reaction though. Your inclusion in the post could just be so that he can get reactions from other players, regarding what he's said about you. If they haven't played with you before, that's not an obstacle. They can still have an impression of what the post would mean from most players, even if they aren't sure of what it would mean from you specifically. If he was intending to gauge your reaction, it is possible that he is still doing so. This is a simple and straightforward explanation for why he would not have reacted to your reaction yet, and I don't get why you've overlooked it. As for why he would townread people for jumping all over his post (when you think it's something Mafia would definitely do) I can see a simple explanation for that too. Mafia might be wary of a trap/ruse. Town can just see a scummy post and say it's a scummy post. That's their job, so if they're just doing their job, they won't worry about the consequences. Mafia have a different job, and they have to balance "calling out a Town player for sounding scummy" (so that they can achieve mislynches) against the knowledge that if they can get the player lynched, they WILL flip Town. That's why scum players like to sheep arguments against Townies more than they like to MAKE arguments against Townies. It reduces accountability. So when Barakos (if he's Town) sees someone recklessly attack his post, he townreads them. There is a problem, though, with Barakos' explanation that he was only reaction-testing people he played with in Newbie X. Because although that would explain why he had nothing to say about you (rayn) it doesn't explain why he gave the townread to Damdred. Damdred was NOT in Newbie X. So if Barakos can use the reaction test to form an opinion on Damdred, he should be able to use it to form an opinion on you. I would want to see him try to explain this inconsistency. | ||
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On July 25 2015 03:54 Tictock wrote: Gentlemen, gentlemen, gentlemen ... We have hardly used up even half our day! There is still yet some time to play... So much needless aggression, you realize you are more likely to shove a brother than an enemy? If you try to shove an enemy, you might accidentally shove a brother. If you don't try to shove anyone, Town can never win this game. We are nearly halfway through the Phase, and a strong majority of players have not even cast a vote yet. I'll be moving my vote soon, but I will not bother to "unvote" yet. I always hate it when a player "unvotes" without putting his vote on anyone else. Put your vote SOMEWHERE. Role PMs for VT sometimes say something like "your only weapon is your vote." We know that 80% of the Town players in this game are Vanilla. We should be USING OUR WEAPONS. | ||
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On July 25 2015 03:51 raynpelikoneet wrote: He either means it's easy for him aswell to distinguish your townplay from scumplay. Or that he wants to know what you have to bring to the table this game. He can't only mean the second one. He already edited things out of my post, since it originally said scum game in Newbie XII and town game in Newbie X. He took those parts out, but still left the rest of the sentence, so he must want it there for a reason. And he can't mean that he finds it easy to distinguish my townplay from my scumplay, (again, unless he knows me from outside the forums) because I haven't drawn a scum role yet. Now YOU might not have known that I've only been Town so far, but some of the other players in this game do know that, so it's a really weird thing for Sulfurus to say. I can talk about how I compared his scum play to his town play in earlier games. He never had the chance to do the same things with my earlier games. There aren't any scum games to look at. | ||
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On July 25 2015 04:25 ruXxar wrote: What's your opinion on moosy? What do you think about my evaluation of you being more warm and jokey than usual? I don't have a particularly strong opinion on Moosy yet. He does not sound much like himself from Newbie XI (where he was Town), and he does not sound much like himself from the beginning of Newbie XII (where he was Town). But he sounds very much like himself from the second half of Newbie XII (where he was Town) after he cut the crap. I don't think I have directed many posts at him in this game, because his posts have not really given me any reason to question him on things. Your evaluation of me being warm? Do you mean his evaluation? Because he brought it up before you did. And if you also think I am more warm and jokey than usual, I would give you the same explanation I gave him. You are both right about that. But I have said why that's the case. | ||
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On July 25 2015 04:36 Rels wrote: Mate you can disagree with my post but the way you attack me is uncalled for. Well you're probably not going to like this post any better then... Point 1 is useless. Well whose fault is that? You're the one who made the observation that he is claiming VT, not me. If the point is useless, I blame you for raising it. You have since said that you accidentally used "VT" to just mean "Town." If that were true, then I don't know why you mentioned it at all. There's no point in calling attention to someone claiming Town, when players claiming Town is so commonplace. This looks to me like ANOTHER instance of you changing your story after the fact, once someone has pointed out that what you originally said is nonsense. Point 2 in particular is a whole lot of nothing, i used prepared post to mean he prepared his post before posting it So you say. Point 3 should have been the only content of your post. I can understand why you think its not scum indicative when I do. YOU ARE MISREPRESENTING MY POSITION. Read it again. I did not only say that his remarks are not scum indicative. That would be an extremely subjective opinion, that you would be perfectly free to disagree with. Rather, I asked you to explain how those posts show that there was forethought behind them. Why are those not just off-the-cuff remarks, where he put his thought to the page as soon as he had them? I didn't tell you that what you think happened is NAI. I told you that I want evidence that what you think happened actually happened at all. Here, I'll help you focus. ##Unvote ##Vote: Rels | ||
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On July 25 2015 04:53 ruXxar wrote: How so? It's the lazy man approach. Damdred thinks like this: "Fuck I am scum again, boring shit" "Ruxx said a lot of crap" "I know ruxx is town, so how do I convey that without TIMI" "I'll just use my random tone-read I used last game done deal" I guess it makes more sense as a "lazy man approach" than anything else. But don't you think he would remember that you were teammates together in that game? And that he might expect you to notice that he's giving the same player the same type of read, as he did when he was Scum? I guess that could be a WIFOM play, but I don't know that he would try to WIFOM you when you're relatively new. | ||
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I didn't say he is suspicious, and I'm not trying to convince you (or anyone else) to vote for him. I only mean that you shouldn't take the phrasing he used to be Town-indicative. It seemed like you wanted to do that. Don't do that. | ||
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...really? You said "posting so I don't get modkilled." That's a throwaway post. | ||
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On July 25 2015 05:43 disformation wrote: + Barakos read of me is super strange/wonky. + Barakos stance on NocturneMage is super indecisive. + Barakos gives a lot of town credit to n00bKing for something that is done very easily. 1) What read do you mean? 2) I completely agree. 3) Come on, man. You mentioned earlier that Barakos might have been "buddying" with that comment. But he's not, it's obviously just a joke. He's not actually trying to give me town credit for knowing how to count. How could you think that? I've seen players try to buddy up to me before (or "pocket" me, as it seems to be called around here), and I'm definitely wary of it. But this is not an instance of that. For him to name me top town for knowing how to count is the same as if he named rayn top town for having the most letters in his screen name. Pay attention. | ||
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On July 25 2015 05:51 raynpelikoneet wrote: n00bking do you think it's more likely that Sulfurus will flip mafia than that Barakos will? Can't really say, I guess. Sulfurus seems to me like a good place for votes to go because: He plays little as Town, but barely plays at ALL as Scum, and that's exactly what we've seen here. In one game where he was Scum, he did almost nothing at the beginning of the game but attack me (specifically) without grounds, saying that he was the cop and had a redcheck on me. Here in this game he has done nothing but say that he thinks he's had an easy time differentiating my scum game and town game, when he's never even seen my scum game. It would be really odd to me for him to go down this road again, when it has already gotten him killed in another game. I don't know, how often do newbie scum players repeat the same mistakes that have gotten them lynched before? Barakos seems to me like a good place for votes to go because: Even though some of the arguments used against him look leaky to me, his attempts to combat them have been pretty feeble. I would expect Town Barakos to do a better job than this of defending himself. And to ALSO do a better job than this of pushing someone that would be a better lynch target than he is. Who does Barakos want to lynch today? I'm not sure I could even tell you without going and reading his filter again. Rels seems to me like a good place for votes to go because: His posts are actively scummy, and he has already been forced to retcon his story on two separate issues. I haven't seen Rels play as scum yet, so maybe he's just no good at it. If he's scum in this game, his teammates are probably not too happy with him in the QT right now. | ||
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On July 25 2015 06:08 raynpelikoneet wrote: If this is about rels (i am a bit confused here) please elaborate more with quotes. The part above the quote is me talking about the previous quote. It is not about the quote that is about to follow. The part after the quote is talking about the quote. Hopefully that helps. | ||
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On July 25 2015 06:18 raynpelikoneet wrote: what do i post as the first post of the game that is not a throwaway post in your opinion? I can't tell what you're asking. | ||
n00bKing
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On July 25 2015 06:30 ruXxar wrote: For what it's worth I 100% agree with disformation nation here. Barakos read on n00b was cheap as they go, and I did not get the impression it was a joke at all. Okay, then I agree with Moosy. You are dumb. I cannot begin to imagine how anyone could take that comment from Barakos seriously. Not for a moment did I think he was trying to buddy up to me, or pocket me, or give a read on me. It's clearly a joke. And in fact, the post from me that he was responding to when he made the joke, was ALSO a joke. His joke plays off of mine. | ||
n00bKing
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On July 25 2015 06:38 disformation wrote: 1) This one Okay. I guess I don't see that read on you as being "wonky." It's just WEAK. So again, I would expect Town Barakos to be able to give us better analysis on a preferred lynch target, and to do a better job of defending himself, based on prior examples of his Town play. If that doesn't happen, then he'll stay in the group of players (that also includes Sulfurus and Rels) that I would be perfectly happy to punt out of the game on Day 1. | ||
n00bKing
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On July 25 2015 06:46 Damdred wrote: I really don't get the big deal over rayns entry post. Its Nai, he's doing things...so it's dumb and pointless I think rayn is the only one making a big deal over rayn's entry post. I don't think anyone disagrees that it was NAI. There just also shouldn't be anyone who disagrees that it's a throwaway post. *shrug* | ||
n00bKing
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On July 25 2015 07:00 Bill Murray wrote: [blue][b][u][big]Day 1 Votecount As has been the case in every game I've played here...the vote count is inaccurate. | ||
n00bKing
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Oh? Is there any reason why you think Rels might be Town? I don't see one, from viewing your filter. | ||
n00bKing
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On July 25 2015 07:13 raynpelikoneet wrote: Why is my post more of a throwaway post than these two? ruxxar, noobking. i DO want an answer. ruXxar's post is not a throwaway post because it has game-relevant information in it. He is making a roleclaim. disformation's post is every bit as much a throwaway post as yours. As was the first post from Barakos. As was the first post from Damdred (even though it didn't come until Page 10). A lot of people's first posts will be throwaways posts. I wasn't making a big deal of yours being one. Find something worthwhile to talk about. | ||
n00bKing
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On July 25 2015 07:17 raynpelikoneet wrote: I don't defend my townreads unless i have a reason to. Right now i am lynching mafia and you are not. If you somehow gather the votes then i can elaborate. This is extremely faulty reasoning, if you're a Town player. If you are Town, and if you think Rels is Town, then the only reason for you to not care that I have my vote on him is if you think I am Scum. If you think all 3 of us are Town, you have a responsibility to help me see why Rels is not the right lynch today. Because every Town vote that is on a Town player gives Scum more control over the Noose. My vote being on a Town player would increase the odds of a mislynch, even if Rels is not the target of that mislynch. I am a reasonable, rational person. If you think there are reasons to townread Rels, let's talk about them. On July 25 2015 07:17 raynpelikoneet wrote: btw, I don't see one reason, from viewing your filter, why Barakos is not mafia. This doesn't argue with anything I've said. Correct, my filter offers no reasons why Barakos isn't Mafia. However, my filter DOES offer reasons why Rels IS Mafia. No one can read my posts about Rels and then ask me "How come you're voting Rels over Barakos or Sulfurus?" | ||
n00bKing
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On July 25 2015 07:20 raynpelikoneet wrote: In fact you kinda did. Do you believe ruxxar's claim then? No. In fact, I really, REALLY didn't. And I don't know whether I believe ruXxar's claim. That doesn't keep the claim from being game-relevant information. | ||
n00bKing
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On July 24 2015 12:15 n00bKing wrote: As I see it, you're saying that ruXxar's play in this game is different from his scum games in these two ways: A) He is free/happy B) He is not giving his rsoultin/oprah impersonation My follow-up questions would be: 1) Anything else? Or do those two things cover it for now? 2) What is an rsoultin/oprah impersonation? That means nothing to me. | ||
n00bKing
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Yeah, I didn't. disformation said only 4 of 13 players had posted. I corrected him, because 6 of 13 players had posted. The players he was missing were you and Barakos. You and Barakos had each made only 1 throwaway post, which explains why it was so easy for disformation to miss them. I never made a big deal over those throwaway posts, because IT'S NOT A BIG DEAL, and you're the only one who wants to keep talking about it. I then made the joke that if we want to lynch all liars, we can start with disformation because of his poor count. So Barakos responded to my joke by making a joke that I was top town because I know how to count. Everything make sense now? | ||
n00bKing
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On July 25 2015 07:34 raynpelikoneet wrote: and by that i mean the fact you call it a throwaway post makes it alignment indicative for you. WRONG. I never said there was anything alignment-indicative about the post from you, the one from Barakos, the one from disformation, or the one from Damdred. If you try to decide that you understand my thought processes better than *I* understand my thought processes, you're going to come up with the short end every time. I promise. | ||
n00bKing
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On July 25 2015 07:37 Damdred wrote: I never did address this, probably just forgot along the way. Anyway, bit different now obviously with the game progressing. But a) basically at that point B) you get a town read, you get a town read, everyone gets a town read. Okay, thanks. I didn't know that ruXxar had a tendency to town-read everyone, in his scum games. | ||
n00bKing
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On July 25 2015 07:48 ruXxar wrote: Your case on rels is based on a faulty premise. He already explained what he meant by prepared statement, yet you get stuck in details if his original accusation instead of evolving reads from the post where he clarifies his post. I already explained why his explanation of what he meant by prepared statement is NOT believable. He wants us to believe that he used it to mean something other than how the term is actually used in these games. "Prepared statement" means before the Phase begins. His explanation looks like a retcon, to cover his tracks, after it has been pointed out that what he initially said cannot be true. I think his explanation looks like a LIE. His NEW explanation actually still does not make any sense (which is no surprise to me, because it probably isn't what he originally meant). Rels now says that the comments were thought about a lot before they were posted, rather than meaning that they were prepared before the game began. I call bullshit again. There is nothing about those comments that indicate they were thought about a lot before being posted, as opposed to being off-the-cuff reactions in the moment. When I point this out, Rels tries to tell me that he can understand why the comments being thought about a lot before they were posted isn't scum-indicative for me, even though it is for him. When that's not even what I said in the first place. He has taken my words and twisted them into something else, before dismissing an argument I didn't actually make. When I point out that the post in question didn't actually contain a VT claim, he says my point is "useless" and tries to discuss it no further. Only after follow-up pressure from rayn does Rels eventually decide that when he said VT, he actually meant "Townie." Another retcon job, when someone has again shown that his initial post doesn't make any sense. And here again, the new explanation doesn't make any better sense than the first one, because if he actually meant "Townie" instead of "VT" then why did he even mention it at all? He thought it would be worthwhile to take time pointing out to everyone that someone had a "prepared post" in which they said they were Town? Really? You're swallowing that, ruXxar? | ||
n00bKing
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If the mind-meld between rayn and myself is real, then why do you have one of us on your Town reads and one on your Scum reads? lol | ||
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On July 25 2015 08:46 Sulfurus wrote: The mind-meld is between me and rayn FailFish ...what? That doesn't make any sense. He wasn't talking to you, he was talking to me. And saying that he thought he had understood what I had been after, when making my post where I asked you what you meant. (A question you still have not answered.) | ||
n00bKing
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On July 25 2015 09:12 MoosyDoosy wrote: Eh. The difference between what we did is that it was clearly obvious that ruXxar was trying to force a reaction which made the Mafia just more cautious. On the other hand I went all-out with my trap so that Sulfurus was snagged hard. You can see this on the vote count. I was almost lynched and it went down to a one vote difference between me and Sulfurus. On the other hand, ruXxar was too lazy with his trap and no one took him seriously anyway. Well then, sorry to burst your bubble (hey, at least you'll know I'm not trying to pocket you!) but I think there is a reason why you were the only one in that game giving yourself any credit for "trapping" Sulfurus. I don't think the fact that you nearly got yourself lynched should be a point of pride. I think the behavior from Sulfurus was scummy independent of anything that you were doing. I don't think Sulfurus himself would say that you were a significant part of why he was killed. I didn't see anything productive about your Day 1 "strategy" in that game, which is why I was disappointed to see ruXxar doing something similar in this game. And Ticktock is no better, by the way. But if there's any silver lining to it, I guess it would be that although I don't feel like ruXxar or Ticktock have contributed much to helping me solve the game, they have at least helped me determine their own alignments. ruXxar playing the same way you did likely makes him Town just like you were. And I don't know how a scum player would decide that his best course of action is to show up to the thread late and then start posting tarot cards. And if the answer is "cuz WIFOM" then I continue to think that the Newbie games are not the best place to be trying that kind of thing, and that TickTock would understand that. So I didn't really get Breshke scumreading ruXxar (though I see he's backing off of that now) and I didn't really get Damdred and rayn scumreading TickTock (though all 3 of them are on the vets list, so maybe Damdred and rayn are using some kind of l33t meta reads to catch TickTock). I'll also mention that there was a silver lining to all of rayn's nonsense about his throwaway entry post. That, too, made me more confident in ruXxar's towniness, since Rux's reaction to all of it was basically "go fuck yourself with this crap, rayn" which is a mindset that is...umm...relatable, shall we say. | ||
n00bKing
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On July 25 2015 10:32 disformation wrote: Okay. You are so sure in your town reads after half of D1 you think you can no longer lose this game? If we lynch 4 townies in a row we lose (assuming 1 nk each night). I see what Sulfurus is saying about the 6 lynches, but I haven't seen anyone express it that way before. We only get 6 lynches if three of them are right. Because like you say, 4 mislynches can end the game. Which all means that if Sulfurus were to have even ONE bad guy (including himself, of course) in his townpile, then following his 'auto' blueprint would guarantee that the Town loses. He has to be absolutely right about all 7 of his townreads (again, including himself) or following his lists is a one-way ticket to a Mafia victory. His confidence in his lists doesn't make me scumread him any more than I would have before, however. Because that confidence is just as strange if he's one alignment as it is if he's the other, given that his track record so far here is: Town - Gets himself mislynched Scum - Gets himself lynched Day 2 Scum - Gets himself lynched Day 1 | ||
n00bKing
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On July 25 2015 13:51 Tictock wrote: So n00b stands a solid green for me now, pretty much never lynching the guy. Neat! Cuz I didn't even wanna get lynched anyway! :D | ||
n00bKing
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On July 25 2015 14:02 Sulfurus wrote: I'll start with my read on Barakos since it was the easiest to figure out, just look at this post. At first I was very excited to see this since it has the same 'shape' as his posts from NSMX where he had nothing but good logic. However the actual content of the post has none of the strong conclusions that I associate with Barakos. It looks like it was written so people couldn't say he hasn't given reads instead of trying to catch mafia. Also please don't listen to his excuse about how that post was a 'trap' for NSMX people. He knows he messed up and he's trying to cover up. I see three different things wrong with this post from Sulfurus. And will award 5 Townie points to each player who notices one of them before I point it out. Two of them have already been pointed out, during discussion on Page 33. 1) I have never heard anyone talk about the "shape" of someone's posts as possibly being alignment-indicative. That's just not terminology that is used. Sulfurus later talks about Trfel and myself having distinctive formatting. That could make it difficult for us to Smurf or something, but did Trfel's distinctive formatting actually change, when his alignment changed? Sulfurus doesn't say that it did, so what is he talking about? Did my distinctive formatting actually change, when my alignment changed? Sulfurus doesn't say that it did (and he's never seen my alignment change) so what is he talking about? I don't see any indication that Barakos using the same "shape" in his posts would actually mean he's Town again, so there wouldn't be anything to get "very excited" about. All of this is dumb. For calling attention to it, I'll give Ticktock 5 Townie Points. 2) Sulfurus "starts with the read on Barakos" even though it was the one that people would be least interested to hear about, and then left for hours. And when he came back and posted again, he still didn't explain the controversial reads that people would actually be curious about. For calling attention to that, I'll give Breshke 5 Townie Points. 3) ???? Whoever points out this problem in Sulfurus' post, will get another 5 Townie Points. In Sulfurus' defense (yeah, I said it!) he didn't really make a full-on list post in either of his two recent scum games. He kinda/sorta gave reads, but there wasn't a list post like this one. Whereas there was, in Newbie X (where he was Town). On the other hand, considering that he was lynched EARLY in each of those scum games, you would think he would try to do SOMETHING to change up his scum game, even if it's just copycatting some of his behavior from Newbie X (since I've made it clear that I'm pretty familiar with all 3 of his previous games). | ||
n00bKing
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On July 25 2015 16:41 Sulfurus wrote: Ya there are certain people who have a unique visual style to their posts such as trfel and n00bKing because of the why they format it. For Barakos in particular every single one of his posts in NSMX was very block-y and rectangular but in this game only the post I quoted looked like that while the rest had the standard shape everyone else uses. Like, everything you say here is pointless, false, or BOTH. Would it help if I quoted FIFTY posts from Barakos in Newbie X that are neither block-y nor rectangular? Because they are there. And it also isn't true that in this game, the only post from him that is block-y and rectangular is the one you quoted. Posts 12 and 13 in his filter from this game use the formatting you're talking about, even though they were both after the post that you quoted. He ends a sentence, starts a new line, but does not put in a line break to start a new paragraph. Just as was often (but not always) seen in his posts in Newbie X, and that's what gives some of his posts that distinctive layout. So again, even if what you were saying was true, I don't think it would matter. But it's not true. There are some good reasons to be suspicious of Barakos. This crap about the shape of his posts AIN'T those good reasons. So I understand why people are saying that it looks like you might be reaching for new reasons to sheep thread sentiment, instead of just sheeping the reasons that were already given. | ||
n00bKing
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On July 25 2015 17:12 Rels wrote: Now I'll cover the accusation against me. I'll try to not do the same as newbie XI where I covered the thread with pages of defense. Actually thinking about it could it be what mafia wanted ... meh we'll see later. Doubt it? Because when you did that in Newbie XI it worked, and you went from having 7 votes on you to having 0, and were never lynched. On July 25 2015 17:12 Rels wrote: Because it has nothing to do with him being newbie. The fact is he prepared his post before posting. Now I'll let you analyze that fact as newbie indicative if that is your wish. For my part I think it's scum indicative. You keep telling people that the "fact" that he prepared his post may not be scum-indicative for them, but IS scum-indicative for you. What I keep reminding you of is that this "fact" is NOT a fact. It's only something you've presented as fact. And when I've challenged you (twice) to explain how those remarks require forethought, instead of just being off-the-cuff instant reactions, you've come up empty (twice). | ||
n00bKing
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On July 25 2015 17:24 Rels wrote: If you're mafia that will make you happy: I cursed out loudly reading this post and woke up my GF. Will you curse even more loudly when you see that rayn did NOT try to give me a reason why he thinks you might be Town? And that instead, he simply refused to defend you? | ||
n00bKing
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On July 25 2015 17:28 Sulfurus wrote: You and trfel were just examples of people with distinctive shapes it doesn't seem to be alignment for you and I don't know how trfel posts when's he's town (btw trfel's big 'case' posts are long and thin, and for you most of your posts are standard but some of them like the one I'm replying too are overly 'dense' for some reason). Then again, I think it is silly to raise either Trfel or myself as examples, when those examples don't actually support your argument against Barakos. On July 25 2015 17:28 Sulfurus wrote: Barakos is interesting because all of his posts when he was town had that rectangular shape I talked about but here only his first post was like that. Again, there were many posts from him in Newbie X that didn't have that shape. Again, the post in this game that you are referencing was not the last one in this game that DID have that shape. Again, there are good reasons to be suspicious of Barakos. This stuff isn't it. On July 25 2015 17:28 Sulfurus wrote: I think it's because he was originally trying very hard to imitate his town game but couldn't keep it up in his later posts. He couldn't keep it going for more than ONE post, huh? He emulated his Town game for a whole ONE post, and then he was spent? That's your argument? | ||
n00bKing
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Yep. That post had dense formatting too. And you should, like, read it. | ||
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On July 25 2015 17:50 Rels wrote: Why is Rels mafia: an ironic accusation You didn't say anything about why the accusation is ironic. Nor is it ironic. On July 25 2015 18:18 Rels wrote: One The fact that I used VT to mean townie is NAI. The accusation part of this point is that I tried to swip it under the rug when mentioned. But that is not true. I will put you in my head; and by that I mean, read these posts with the idea that VT=townie. Can you now understand why I said: Yes, I understand why you would have said that Point 1 is useless, if you had thought that you said "townie" instead of "VT." Now, do you understand why I don't believe you? For your story to be true, not only do you have to SAY "VT" when you actually meant "townie" but when other people respond to you and talk about it, you also have to READ "VT" as "townie" instead. And like I've said, if you thought the post was a Town claim and not a Vanilla claim...why bother mentioning it at all? People make random Town claims all the time, especially at the beginning of games. There's no reason to point it out as being alignment-indicative, and there's no reason to point it out as sounding "prepared." On July 25 2015 18:18 Rels wrote:Two I already explained that by prepared post I meant he prepared his post before posting it, not that he prepared his post before the game. And I've repeatedly asked you to tell us in what way his post looks "prepared" instead of being off-the-cuff instant reactions, that he put to the page as soon as he had the thought. And you haven't been able to do it. On July 25 2015 18:18 Rels wrote: Three See the point 1&2; never changed my story. Yes you did. You changed your story in both of those instances. What you've told us is that your story never changed inside your own head. But we can't know whether that's actually true or not, because we can't see inside your head. All we can see is what you've typed. And what you've typed DID change. Both times. On July 25 2015 04:36 Rels wrote:Four noobking said this: In this post he's asking why I thought NM's prepared post was necessarily scum indicative. NO. That is NOT what I ask you there. This is you misrepresenting my position. Again, right now. And I called BS when you did it before, and I'm calling BS on it now. If you were a Town player, I don't see how you could be reading my posts and trying to understand why I'm scumreading you, and then still display this level of willful ignorance. The only way your inability to comprehend makes any sense to me is if you're NOT trying to understand what I'm saying, because you don't care about what I'm saying, because you already know your allegiance, and mine, and everyone else's. Obviously I am not having much luck in getting people to see the scummy behavior in you that I see. No one else is voting for you, and rayn and ruXxar have basically said that there's no way they would participate in a lynch on you today. So really, I've just been waiting for an excuse to take my vote off of you. I've been watching and looking for just ONE decent counter-argument from you, that would give me at least a little bit of pause, so that I could feel comfortable putting you on the backburner for now, instead of feeling like you are the best lynch today. I've just wanted you to say ONE thing to me that sounds like it would come out of a Town player's mouth. But you either won't do it, or can't do it. EVERY single thing you say to me is either a misrepresentation or a backtrack. | ||
n00bKing
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On July 25 2015 18:26 Rels wrote: Never said his remarks required thought. lol! How can you try to say that his remarks were prepared before he posted them, and also try to say that he didn't have to think about them before he posted them? This is like the 4th time you've gotten yourself tangled up in a self-contradiction already. | ||
n00bKing
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On July 25 2015 21:34 raynpelikoneet wrote: It has been around 15 or so hours. You finished soon? Yeah, I had the same thought when it was only 7 hours instead of 15. Does this feel at all like "too scummy to actually be scum" to you? Have you seen scum players around here actually doing something like this? | ||
n00bKing
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On July 26 2015 03:32 Damdred wrote: I'm not sure why you are explaining your scum read of rayn to rayn? Because rayn asked him to. It's not like the rest of us don't get to read it too. This is kind of a dumb post, Damdred. | ||
n00bKing
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On July 26 2015 04:28 Damdred wrote: Come on, you don't do everything your scum read asks you to do. You can't prove to them that they are scum. If you are on the fence about someone and have concerns that's one thing but his scum read looks more like an actual case than trying to figure out if someone is scum Come on, yourself. For him to tell rayn why he's scumreading him explains it to everyone else, too. Optimally, he would have already explained it when he first provided the read, but apparently, a lot of people can't be bothered to do that. There's nothing wrong with trying to convince the Town at large of your case by interacting directly with your target. That's what I've been doing with Rels, right? I'm not trying to get Rels to say "Okay, you're right. That's irrefutable proof that I am scum." I expect the other players to read what I'm saying to him. | ||
n00bKing
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On July 26 2015 04:25 NocturneMage wrote: Barakos's first post - the first post that everyone's sort of gone through, besides it not really having conclusions, it has a "I'm going to wait and see" feel which is scummy. There isn't that search for information that I saw with other posts. Do you mean other posts from him? Or other posts from other players? On July 26 2015 04:25 NocturneMage wrote:And in reading elsewhere, I would think a reaction test would be something like a fakeclaim/blue claim like happened in that game or a sharp read against what the thread is thinking, something that would actually provoke a reaction and shows alignment. Plus he also doesn't really draw alignment conclusions from that test either. Meh. He does draw conclusions from the test. His conclusions are just weak/worthless. | ||
n00bKing
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n00bKing wrote: I would expect Town Barakos to be able to give us better analysis on a preferred lynch target, and to do a better job of defending himself, based on prior examples of his Town play. If that doesn't happen, then he'll stay in the group of players (that also includes Sulfurus and Rels) that I would be perfectly happy to punt out of the game on Day 1. So yeah. All that stuff about him giving analysis on a better lynch target, and doing a better job of defending himself, obviously did not happen. One of the other things I was scumleaning him for (which I don't remember reading from anyone else, though I might have skimmed some of the longer cases on him, since I was already scumleaning him myself, and was waiting to see if he would come back and perform better to change my mind) was the appeal to emotion in that same post (the post that everyone hates). Appeal to emotion is a mafia tactic. He complains about the poor weather and feeling bad, and the headaches. So that he'll be a sympathetic figure in our subconscious, and not someone we want to kick out of the game right away before he can have any fun. I've seen scum players do this kind of thing in a few of the games I've been in (outside TL) and we also JUST saw JonnyLaw do it as scum in the Lost But Not Forgotten game. Any true-to-life excuse that they can use to get sympathy (without needing to lie about it) is a tough opportunity to pass up. My other arguments against Barakos feel like a re-hash, so I'll stop after just adding that one point. Since no one seems to want to help me pressure Rels... ##Unvote ##Vote: Barakos | ||
n00bKing
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On July 26 2015 06:44 Rels wrote: I never said each SEPARATE remark required thoughts. As you say, each SEPARATE remark is a "off-the-cut instant reaction". Then IT'S NOT PREPARED. On July 26 2015 06:44 Rels wrote: What I said is that And why would anyone ever care about that? Why would you even bother to mention that? Most people (if not all people) would combine those 3 thoughts into a single post, not split them out into 3 separate posts. You're being completely ridiculous. And this would mean that at least 2/3 of your original comments would be nothing that anyone would EVER care about. "Ooh, look! He claimed Town!" "Ooh, look! He combined multiple thoughts into a single post!" You expect me to believe that's what it looks like when Rels is scumhunting? Sorry buddy, I've watched you scumhunt before. | ||
n00bKing
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On July 26 2015 06:50 LightningStrike wrote: Day 1 Votecount barakos (8): raynpelikoneet, disformation, Breshke, Sulfurus, Rels, Damdred, n00bKing, NocturneMage moosydoosy (2): nocturnemage (0): ruxxar (0): barakas (0): rels (0): rayn (0): Not voting (3): MoosyDoosy, Barakos, Flexes Barakos is set to be lynched! You got until 22:00 GMT (+00:00) to vote! Hrmm. When we lynched Scumfurus on Day 1 of the last game, it was with a 4 vs. 3 race. The complacency surrounding this 8 vs 2 race is a little troublesome, as everyone and their dog seems content to let Barakos hang, except for maybe Ticktock (who I'm townreading anyway). Oh well. *crosses fingers* | ||
n00bKing
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On July 26 2015 06:58 n00bKing wrote: The complacency surrounding this 8 vs 2 race is a little troublesome On July 26 2015 07:04 LightningStrike wrote: Barakos the Mafia Goon has been lynched! | ||
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On July 26 2015 07:07 Damdred wrote: Well barak isn't exactly making himself towny looking at this point Nope. Not exactly... | ||
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From the internet! I was actually just searching for "thumbs up gif." But this one was especially perfect, because you see her uncertainty, before she apparently gets good news, and celebrates. lol | ||
n00bKing
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On July 26 2015 06:55 Rels wrote: Yes I think having different subjects in your first post of the game is something scum does more often than town. Does anyone else believe that this is true? Because I find this to be just as ridiculous as everything else that Rels says to me. | ||
n00bKing
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On July 26 2015 08:22 ruXxar wrote: Updated reads after short analysis of push on barakos. People that are town for being suspicious early of Barakos post: RuXx Damdred Rayn Rels People that are town for other reasons: Disformation Scum: Moosy Flexes Suspicious'ish: Breshke Sulfurus Tictock Nocturne (n00bking) You don't belong in that first group. You would go into "People that are Town for other reasons" along with disformation. I read your early post about the Barakos post, but then when you gave 3 scumleans, he wasn't among them. Damdred and rayn do go in that first group. Some of the arguments they used against Barakos were bad, but some of them were good (and more importantly, the read was good). Rels does not belong in that group because he doesn't use any of the clear and specific reasoning seen from the other people in the group. His vote just sorta...ends up there. Which is why I agree that Rels is one of the most likely bussers, if Barakos was intentionally bussed. (More on that later.) I think I belong more in "People that are Town for other reasons" than I do at the bottom of Suspicious'ish. But I suppose the fact that my name is in parentheses means I'm kind of an afterthought in that group. I would put Rels in Suspicious'ish, Ticktock in "Town for other reasons" and Sulfurus in "Scum." I would take Moosy out of "Scum" and put him pretty low in the "Suspicious'ish" pile. I might even take Flexes out of Scum too, and just put him high on Suspicious'ish. | ||
n00bKing
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On July 26 2015 09:26 Tictock wrote: As for potential scum bussing their partner. Bre, sulf, and Rels look to be the most likely bussers. You are EXACTLY RIGHT. I am now VERY interested to hear how you selected those 3 particular names, to see if you used precisely the same reasoning I did or not. (Note that "most likely bussers" and "most likely scum" are not exactly the same thing.) | ||
n00bKing
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On July 26 2015 09:47 ruXxar wrote: n00bking: He's been a little warm this game, a little too jokey. I saw his early interaction with barakos and it felt too friendly If I've been warm and jokey, then I wasn't just too friendly with Barakos. I've been friendly with a lot of people. Except Rels. Fuck Rels. :D On July 26 2015 09:47 ruXxar wrote: I see n00bking as this rational logic robot that picks apart people's reads when they don't make sense. Instead of scrutinizing the reads that barakos made, he instead just scoffed it off and thought it was a joke Because it WAS a joke. Barakos AFK'd the rest of the Phase, so he never came back to confirm it. But ask him after the game is over. I bet he'll tell you it was a joke. On July 26 2015 09:47 ruXxar wrote: Just feeling that n00b is a little bit odd which is why i pegged him as a PR this game. I just don't feel confident calling him confirmed town at this point. Again, probably shouldn't be trying to peg people as power roles... And it's fine that you're not confident calling me confirmed Town yet. I think there are several very good reasons for people to be Townreading me. I would not try to demand that anyone call me "confirmed Town." Like, those are big words, and should not be thrown around lightly. | ||
n00bKing
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On July 26 2015 10:04 ruXxar wrote: I don't like how n00bking is stuck trying to push the same case on rels over and over. He complains about rayn being hung up over him calling his first post a throwaway post, yet he himself is completely obsessed with trying to hammer rels to death for an argument that he clearly explained his stance on. Those are not the same thing. rayn was talking like he was upset over how people were making a big deal about his throwaway post. I was trying to clear up the misunderstanding, and explain that no one WAS making a big deal about it, so that we could move onto things that actually mattered (and by the way, there's no reason for me to try and clear up that misunderstanding, and shut down all that useless nonsense, if I were Scum. If I were Scum, I would let that chaos run for as long as it could go.) Me continuing the thing with Rels is totally different, because we actually WERE having an argument, instead of there just being one person imagining an argument. Secondly, yes, Rels "clearly explained his stance." I know exactly what he is trying to say happened. I also know that his story is not believable to me, and have illustrated why it is not believable to me. On July 26 2015 10:04 ruXxar wrote: He's trying to push scum on rels by taking his words and twisting their meaning so that they appear scummy. Uhhhh....."taking my words and twisting their meaning" is exactly what I caught HIM in the act doing, and shed light on it multiple times. On July 26 2015 10:04 ruXxar wrote: Something about n00bking is just a little bit off from the last game we played together. This is fine too. I don't think most people play the same every game, even if they aren't making a conscious effort to "change up their play" for some reason or other. It especially makes sense for me to play a little bit different than I did in that game, when that was my first game here, and I had never been in a game with any of the players before. The important thing is not whether I feel a little different, but if you can piece together scum motivation behind what is different. My push on Rels makes no sense at all from a Scum perspective, now that we know Barakos was Scum. If Barakos had flipped Town, then fine. Me wasting all my time chasing after Rels could serve a Scum agenda. But if Barakos and I are both Scum? It does NOT. You had your vote on Moosy, Ticktock had his vote on Moosy. Sulfurus had Moosy as a scumread, and so did someone else (Breshke, maybe? Not sure right now, and not going to look it up. The important thing is that there was someone else.) The Scum play there is to go after Moosy, instead of giving him the null-to-somewhat-Town read that I did. No one else ever listed Rels as a top Scum suspect. No one else ever voted against Rels. And two players said (in no uncertain terms) that they would not be willing to participate in a lynch of Rels. But I kept at it, instead of taking down Moosy, when all the while, my scumbuddy Barakos is over there twisting in the wind? No. | ||
n00bKing
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On July 26 2015 10:35 Sulfurus wrote: n00bKing was the second to last player to vote on Barakos, he even admits in the same post that he would rather have lynched Rels today. Which I probably wouldn't say, if I were Scum, and knew that Barakos was about to flip Red. Like, you're defeating your own argument, without me needing to do anything. On July 26 2015 10:35 Sulfurus wrote: And some particular posts that I think are quite damning Rels is not even trying to scumread me in that post. He's just defending himself. (As he should. I'm not saying it was scum indicative for him to be defending himself, or for him to ONLY be defending himself. I'm just saying he wasn't trying to indicate that anything I said made me Scum at that time.) On July 26 2015 10:35 Sulfurus wrote: n00b malicously changing rayn's town read to scum read. Uhhh, you are misrepresenting my position. Read what the quote actually says. I did not ever try to say that rayn gave a scum read to Rels. I said that rayn refused to defend Rels. If you doubt that I'm right, ask rayn yourself, I expect he remembers. Keep grasping at those straws. I said he was unmemorable right before saying I was going to look at his filter from that game. After looking at the filter, he has at least 50 posts in that game that are not in the format you were talking about. The fact that I found him to be unmemorable before looking at his filter means nothing. I don't even know what you're trying to say. How is that post from ruXxar a "gem" and how is it supposed to make me look bad? | ||
n00bKing
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On July 26 2015 10:52 Damdred wrote: Are you still scum reading rels noob? Not to the same degree. Because he obviously can't be scum without participating in a bussing of Barakos (and a bussing that was decided upon fairly early in the Phase, too) and I don't normally expect a Day 1 bussing, especially in a Newbie game. The circumstantial evidence works in Rels' favor, and so, seeing Barakos flip Red diminishes my suspicion of Rels. But the content of Rels' posts is still just as terrible, and his version of events during our prior discussions is still just as difficult for me to believe. I agree with...nearly everything you've said since the flip. But I don't agree that Rels has been "spewed Town." Saying that Scum Barakos equals Town Rels is going too far. | ||
n00bKing
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On July 26 2015 11:14 ruXxar wrote: What's the difference? I would lynch from the players I think are "most likely scum." Which players are most likely to have bussed Barakos is a separate conversation. Because I cannot be sure that Barakos was bussed. But if he was, then I agree with Ticktock that the 3 players most likely to have done it are exactly the 3 players he listed. Which is why I want to see how he selected those 3 names. | ||
n00bKing
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On July 26 2015 11:29 ruXxar wrote: @n00b: Can you give me a simple list post with where you think people stand right now. I'll definitely do this before the end of the Phase, so that if the Blue Roles are townreading me, they can see what I think on things. But I should do a bit of re-reading first, and I can't right now because it's time to go par-tay! | ||
n00bKing
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On July 26 2015 11:40 Damdred wrote: Stuff about Rels Okay, thanks for putting together that post. Obviously, Rels is one of the people that I'll be re-reading before posting the reads list that ruXxar asked me for. And certain Night results could help guide the Noose on Day 2 as well. See everyone later. | ||
n00bKing
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On July 26 2015 13:17 Tictock wrote: This was posted based solely on their places in the votecount. Sorry if that's a disappointment to ya n00b. That is not a disappointment to me at all. | ||
n00bKing
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On July 26 2015 14:27 ruXxar wrote: Sulfurous brought up a curious point though, why did n00b switch his vote from rels to barakos when he thought rels was scummier? I'll give ya 3 reasons. 1) Remember this? n00bKing wrote: There is a problem, though, with Barakos' explanation that he was only reaction-testing people he played with in Newbie X. Because although that would explain why he had nothing to say about you (rayn) it doesn't explain why he gave the townread to Damdred. Damdred was NOT in Newbie X. So if Barakos can use the reaction test to form an opinion on Damdred, he should be able to use it to form an opinion on you. I would want to see him try to explain this inconsistency. And then this? n00bKing wrote: I would expect Town Barakos to be able to give us better analysis on a preferred lynch target, and to do a better job of defending himself, based on prior examples of his Town play. If that doesn't happen, then he'll stay in the group of players (that also includes Sulfurus and Rels) that I would be perfectly happy to punt out of the game on Day 1. And then this? n00bKing wrote:So yeah. All that stuff about him giving analysis on a better lynch target, and doing a better job of defending himself, obviously did not happen. I said what things Barakos would need to do in order to alleviate my suspicion. He never did those things. I had long expressed contentment with lynching him, so I...followed through on it. 2) Like I said, my attempts to pressure Rels weren't getting any traction. At the time that I moved my vote, having it on Rels was just barking at the moon. (In fact, I probably had about as much chance of getting The Moon lynched as getting Rels lynched.) I was at work for EoD, so there was a chance I wouldn't be around at the deadline. With Barakos having a 6-2 vote lead over Moosy, it looked pretty unlikely that there would be any late "shenannies" but I saw no reason to take any chances. I was not going to have my afk vote on Rels give anyone an opportunity to move the Noose from Barakos to Moosy. Those two reasons are good enough on their own, so feel free to skip this third one if you want, because it may not make sense to you anyway. 3) In the Mafia-by-forum games I played before coming to TL, there was normally a variation on the Vigilante role, that worked a little differently from how he works in this game. And there were roles that could "Pardon" someone who was lynched, so that they didn't die. In an instance like that, the Vigilante goes and attacks whoever he voted against that Day. That lets the Scum look at the vote count and eliminate some people as potentially being the Vigilante. The more scattered the votes are, the more it helps them narrow down the Vigilante's identity. This gives the Town incentive to consolidate votes toward the EoD. So I have this long-standing instinct drilled into me, to do vote consolidation, and it keeps me from leaving my vote uselessly stranded on Rels when no one else is voting against him. | ||
n00bKing
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What the....why does this post look like a quote, when you had never said this before? lol, anyway... Yes, me pushing Rels all day long makes no sense from a scum perspective. If I had been teamed with Barakos, I would have either: 1) Gotten Moosy lynched in Barakos' place (which looked entirely possible, based on thread sentiment). or 2) Bussed the living snot out of Barakos. Pushing on Rels does NOT maximize my chances of getting a mislynch and saving Barakos. Pushing on Rels ALSO does NOT maximize my chances of getting Town cred when Barakos flips Red. My Day 1 play makes no sense, as a teammate of Barakos. Explaining the play from Rels on Day 1, as a teammate of Barakos, is comparably much easier. He bussed him. Explanation over. | ||
n00bKing
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On July 26 2015 17:41 Rels wrote: @noobking: Quote please. Can't wait to see you providing a source TBH. Happily. From Damdred (about Barakos' first post of any real length): it seems like a lot of information doesn't say a lot doesn't draw many conclussions and gives the thought of doing a lot of things while doing nothing at the same time From Damdred (about Barakos' explanation of that prior post being a reactions test): One problem I had with this post was that the reads still aren't substantiated beyond a copy paste of the allegations against him. With a slight twist on why those people are town who point out the problems. The second is he automatically accepts both of us as town for thinking he looks scummy which doesn't make a ton of sense to me. If someone starts a wagon/joims a wagon one of my first thoughts is is scum looking for an easy mislynch which he doesn't do. Again, that last one is actually not good reasoning. But at least it is clear and specific. From rayn: He is clearly lying since he should be interested in what i said about him: - He kinda called me mafia as a part of his "reaction test" - He literally should expect a reaction (that results in a read or questions) from me - Three people called him mafia, me, you and Damdred - He gives a TOWNREAD on you two (yeah like if he is town why the fuck would you and Damdred be TOWN for calling out scummy stuff that a townie did? like if i was mafia i would totally jump on that - there is no reason to give you a townread for it in the first place) yet he has NOTHING to say about me, who HE called out in the first place. Again, the last one is bad reasoning. And I think he said it before Damdred did. But as with Damdred, this reasoning is clear and specific. rayn later adds Barakos' "read on disformation" as another specific argument against him. From disformation: Interesting. Upon re-reading disformation's filter, it is not as good/Townish as I expected. I still feel like disformation is Town, but he's jovial with Barakos at first, then null-reads him. Then writes a long post about him that is mostly talking in circles. But eventually we get these as more specific explanations for his vote: actually I think he is misrepresenting me. I never said I would be looking for meta hints in general. I said I would be using some games I was shadowing ppl in to look for meta hints on just ruxXar and Damdred. Never mentioned any other games or meta hints in general. He also calls out my waffling in NSM X. Maybe he sees me as an easy misslynch? Or as an easy distraction? His conclusion is that I am scum. Seems even like a pretty strong read. But he doesn't vote for me? Waiting to see if he can get this wagon going? + Barakos read of me is super strange/wonky. + Barakos stance on NocturneMage is super indecisive. + Barakos gives a lot of town credit to n00bKing for something that is done very easily. Conversely, in your filter, it took me a lot of looking around to even find something that explains suspicion of Barakos, and is anywhere near the same part of the game as your vote against him. You make one post where you act suspicious of him and then promptly drop it, and don't revisit him at all for pages, that I noticed. (And I don't mean pages of game thread, I mean pages of your own filter.) You don't talk any more about Barakos until you are specifically interrogated on the subject, and then you say you want to give him more time. Which is fine, I gave him more time as well. Then you call his reaction test "bullshit" but with ZERO explanation as to why. You later call the reaction test a "lie" but again with no explanation. And this is from the post where you actually cast your vote against him: Let's begin with the beginning. As promised I re evaluated Barakos. Well, that was easy since he didn't post since yesterday. In particular, I checked rayn's additional accusation to my and Damdred's case, and it's true rayn was the second people to call Barakos mafia; but Barakos always forgot him on his townreads, only calling Damdred and I town. I still do not think it's the strongest point against him though rayn sry, this bullshit about reaction test is much worse IMO. Pretty convinced he's scum. ##Vote Barakos Murky. Not the same kind of clarity and specificity seen from the other people who voted against Barakos, that I quoted above. Which probably explains why they were the first 3 people to vote against him: because they knew why they were doing so. YOU were the 6th vote against Barakos, and you don't really seem to understand why you are voting against Barakos. Your vote just kinda happens to land there. After you had scumread and voted against at least two other players. *shrug* This does not guarantee that you're Scum. It is just what I meant when I told Damdred that Scum Barakos does NOT guarantee Town Rels, either. | ||
n00bKing
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On July 26 2015 18:02 Rels wrote: Now a few scummy things noobking did since EOD. 1. noobking attacked my credibility on voting Barakos But, as TT pointed out in his post, my read-then-vote of Barakos is clearly stated in the thread. So noobking lied when he said I didn't "use any of the clear and specific reasoning seen from the other people in the group." No, it's not a lie. You didn't use the same kind of clear and specific reasoning seen from the other people in the group. As demonstrated in my previous post. On July 26 2015 18:02 Rels wrote:2. noobking attacked my credibility as a player So, even if he reversed his read, he can still call me a bad player so other people are less inclined in trusting me. "Fuck Rels" does not attack your credibility as a player. Nor does saying that the content of your posts is still just as terrible. I'm not saying "terrible" as in "Rels is awful at playing this game." I'm saying "terrible" as in "Rels sounds scummy." Nor does saying that you don't belong in the group that I've discussed now at length. I'm not excluding you from the group because I disbelieve in your ability as a player. I'm excluding you because your posts about Barakos are not nearly as Town-indicative as the posts from those other players. On July 26 2015 18:02 Rels wrote:3. Claims his pushing on me makes no sense as scum This is WIFOM. On noobking can WIFOM it all he wants, the way he's pushing me is suspicious. Yeah, I said my pushing on you makes no sense if I'm scum. Because it DOESN'T. That quote you just posted from me would certainly convince me that I'm Town, if I was playing this game blind, and hadn't already looked at my PM to know for sure. On July 26 2015 18:02 Rels wrote:4. ruxxar's interrogation LOL. How in the hell are you going to try and list a post from RUXXAR as something scummy that *I* have done since the EoD? That's not something that I've done, that's something that someone else has done. Did you forget what your post was even supposed to be about? And I have now given a thorough answer to ruXxar's "interrogation" anyway. | ||
n00bKing
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On July 26 2015 18:43 Rels wrote: Barakos' last post was 16 hours into day 1, so we can assume he accepted his lynch by at most mid day. On July 26 2015 18:48 raynpelikoneet wrote:That is WIFOM because you cannot prove Barakos went to scum QT and said "hey i am done here, bus me". On July 26 2015 18:51 Rels wrote:Like you said, we shouldn't assume anything. His posts are EIGHT MINUTES apart!! In the span of eight minutes, he goes from saying it is safe to make this assumption, to saying that no duh, of course we can't make that assumption. | ||
n00bKing
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On July 26 2015 20:12 raynpelikoneet wrote: The post where he says "likely to bus" does not equal "has to be bussed"? It's basic logic and just not alignment indicative. Answering questions that have been posed to me with good logic (even if it is basic logic) is Town indicative. As Scum, I would rather provide as little good logic as possible. | ||
n00bKing
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On July 27 2015 02:15 Damdred wrote: You are in a self confirming spiral Noob. No matter what rels says/does you are interpreting it as scummy Okay, just ONE more Rels post for now, and then I'm done. Promise. It's almost finished! | ||
n00bKing
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On July 27 2015 02:27 raynpelikoneet wrote: there is no single specific argument from him that is cut and clear, everything is just some weird spiral that takes fucking hours to decipher. I feel like everyone of my specific arguments is cut and clear. If there is any one of them that you're having a hard time "deciphering" then just let me know what it is, and I'll make every effort to crystallize it for you. | ||
n00bKing
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Is everyone ready for the GRAND FINALE? I have to admit, I'm pretty excited. So, I had said this: Obviously, Rels is one of the people that I'll be re-reading before posting the reads list that ruXxar asked me for. And apparently, I'm the ONLY ONE who re-read his filter, or someone else would have caught this. Don't worry though, I'll do everything myself for the rest of this game, if I have to, until the bad guys can't take it anymore and kill me. Here's this post from Rels. I normally trim down quotes to keep things shorter and more focused, and easier to read. But I'll quote it in its entirety, just to maximize the context. On July 25 2015 18:26 Rels wrote: Never said his remarks required thought. I said he had three different subjects in his first post, which means he didn't post immediatly after writing the first one. This was confusing to me. I didn't understand how Rels could tell me that he never said the remarks required thought. If I was under the impression that he HAD told me that, then it probably had to come from somewhere. I had meant to go back and check, but then got distracted by other goings-on, and just happened to run across the answer while re-reading his filter for other reasons. And VOILA, there it was: (again, I apologize for leaving the quote uncut. It's a huge, cluttered mess. But I'm making sure full context is available. The end is the part you want, though. The last post.) On July 24 2015 18:46 Rels wrote: No you don't get it. I'm not saying NocturneMage prepared his post before the game started. I'm saying he thought long and hard before he posted it, instead of being free of mind and posting what he felt. The evidence that he thought long and hard before posting it is the fact that there are 3 different subjects in the post. Then, I'm saying that the fact that he is not free of mind posting his first post may indicate he's mafia. Simple enough? Rels wrote: Never said his remarks required thought. Rels wrote: As you say, each SEPARATE remark is a "off-the-cut instant reaction". vs Rels wrote: I'm not saying NocturneMage prepared his post before the game started. I'm saying he thought long and hard before he posted it, instead of being free of mind and posting what he felt. OOPS. So, ruXxar had tried to tell me stuff like this: ruXxar wrote: Your case on rels is based on a faulty premise. He already explained what he meant by prepared statement, yet you get stuck in details if his original accusation instead of evolving reads from the post where he clarifies his post. Well, I will have NO more of that, sir. Yes, Rels has clarified his posts. And it's gotten him caught in a lie. So either he is a Townie that is a terrible teammate, and due to his pride and ego, refused to admit to a mistake that he had made, and instead lied about it so he wouldn't look bad...or...he is Scum. We can have a discussion about why he lied. But the discussion about WHETHER he lied, is OH-verrrr. | ||
n00bKing
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On July 27 2015 02:56 Damdred wrote: I vote him third but misspell,his name so on the wagon later rather than third. I think everyone understands you were early on the voting wagon, and isn't counting the misspelling against you. Like you say, you were effectively third, not sixth. Rels was sixth. Which is part of why I find it funny that people want to credit him for getting behind the lynch "early" or criticize me for switching to him "late" when he was the 6th vote and I was the 7th vote. *shrug* | ||
n00bKing
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On July 27 2015 03:15 raynpelikoneet wrote: Saying things like this doesn't really help n00bKing, because not only it deduces your credibility because of ad-hom but it is also impossible he is lying here and is town as he has repeatedly discredited your point. Keep things simple. Assume deduces = reduces? If so, then I don't think the fact that he continued to battle back makes it impossible that he's Town. Once he decided to make the lie, he could decide to try and stick with it, because admitting that it was a lie will be seen as suspicious. Like, let's say that he shows up and admits that he contradicted himself, and apologizes for it. You're going to then say it is "impossible" that he's Town, because he kept trying to discredit my point? In that scenario, you're actually motivating him to stick with the lie instead of coming clean, because if he tells the truth now you'll lynch him. See what I mean? You can say I'm overthinking it, but I don't think we should push him into a position where he feels like there is more downside to admitting the truth than continuing to lie. | ||
n00bKing
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On July 27 2015 03:22 Damdred wrote: I'm actually not referring to you here noob but rather the way moose is reading people differently for the same things and when confronted still uses uneven ways to read people Yes, I know I wasn't involved in the conversation directly. Just making a side comment, that I don't think you need to worry about people accusing you of being late to the wagon. | ||
n00bKing
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On July 27 2015 03:26 raynpelikoneet wrote: I am giving him credit for getting behind the lynch early because; - he was one of the first (if not the first) people to call out Barakos - whether he voted for him or not at that point is irrelevant, it's relevant that he did nothing to push anyone else's lynch, which mafia normally does fi one of their own is under attack and there is a strong thread presence (like Rels) in the thread. Like, in my opinion, it pretty easy to see that he never even entertains another lynch other than Barakos. If i am wrong here feel free to correct me. I think whether he voted for him or not at that point IS relevant. Because he makes that ONE post casting suspicion on Barakos, but then drops it, long-term, without voting for him. Haven't you ever done that with one of your scum teammates? Call out a post of theirs, not vote for them, and then head in another direction? It looks pretty clear that he entertained other lynches, when Barakos was not the 1st person he voted against, but the 3rd person he voted against. Maybe you could benefit from just reading Rels' filter. It's not short, but it might help you see where I'm coming from (even if you still aren't convinced of Rels being scum by the time you get to the end) | ||
n00bKing
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On July 27 2015 03:31 Rels wrote: So what you said: "Rels said his post didn't require thought". "Rels said his post required thought". Is not what happened. The situation is: "Rels said each remarks in his post didn't require thought" (in response to you BTW. The original case does NOT care if each separate remark are cut off thoughts or not) "Rels said his post required thought 'cause there are remarks on three different subjects". I'm going to label this as "Rels having fun with semantics." And I am going to label it as "the 3rd time Rels has been forced to retcon a story, after there being 5 times he has contradicted himself." | ||
n00bKing
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On July 27 2015 03:37 MoosyDoosy wrote: n00bKing, I'm reading your filter next but I'm gonna say that I don't feel good about you getting tunneled this hard on Rels. Something that I said might happen and warned you about before too. :/ I don't think "tunneled" means what you think it does. Tough to accuse me of "tunnel vision" when I am continuously giving thoughts on other players besides Rels, and continuously engaging in discussions that have nothing to do with Rels. If there is any player that you aren't sure what I think of them, that's about to be corrected. | ||
n00bKing
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On July 27 2015 03:38 Rels wrote: LOL Actually that makes me relieved, I'm now sure you're mafia 'cause no way townie behaves like that. (= *eyeroll* Would love to see you try and explain how and why that isn't EXACTLY how a townie behaves. If you paid me 10 bucks to come up with a different reasonable reaction from a Town player, I'm not sure there IS one. | ||
n00bKing
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On July 27 2015 03:40 raynpelikoneet wrote: If you always do this mafia can lie for whatever reason and you will never find mafia. Townies should never lie, unless they can clearly point out why it's beneficial for the town (see for example fake claims). Okay...and do you feel that Rels has adequately explained how his lie was beneficial for the Town? Because I do not. | ||
n00bKing
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Naw, I'll have my reads out sooner than that. I said I would have them posted so that if blue roles were townreading me, they could know where I stood, as far as who would be good targets for what. And I again cannot guarantee my presence at the deadline, so while I intend to post an epitaph, anything I REALLY want to make sure I get said, needs to be earlier. | ||
n00bKing
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On July 27 2015 03:52 Rels wrote: Don't have to look very far. Lying about me lying. Ad hominem attacks on me. Accusing me of ad hominem is absurd. I attack your posts. Anything I say about your character can be freely discarded without it weakening my arguments against you one iota. And I am not lying about you lying. You're caught in a lie. And caught badly enough that you had to resort to a third retcon job. | ||
n00bKing
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In descending order from most trusted to least trusted. #1: n00bKing - I haz faith in my PM. I feel like I'm just as Town as it says I am. #2: ruXxar - If I had a button that I could push...and if ruXxar is Town I win the game...and if ruXxar is Scum then I lose the game, am the scapegoat for the loss, and get a 3-game ban...I'm pushing the button. I don't think a townread on ruXxar is very controversial, but I can go into it more if needed. #3: rayn - rayn kinda likes to tell us that he feels like he worked the hardest, for the Barakos lynch. I actually agree with Ticktock that a lot of rayn's filter is short and spammy posts. But even if rayn didn't *work* the hardest for the lynch, he still *pushed* the hardest for the lynch. And the target was Scum. That gives him a lot of leash to work with, in my opinion. I feel like I'll be pretty deep in tinfoil hat territory before I try to make a case on rayn. And although he and I don't always see EVERY matter the same way, we've seen a lot of them the same way, and in cases where we disagree, he *usually* seems inclined to work with me on getting things figured out. (Exception would be his refusal to tell me why he townread Rels during Day 1. I felt like that hindered the Town's win condition.) #4: Damdred - Copycatted one or two of the anti-Barakos arguments, including the one that I least liked. But here again, pushed pretty hard for a lynch on a guy that flipped Red. I have agreed with almost everything he has said during Night 1 except for the Rels topic. Seems generally helpful, and like a guy I could count on to get this thing done, if I were to be killed early. #5: disformation - As mentioned earlier, his filter doesn't read as Townie as I expected it to. There is serious "waffle" to his early game, but it sounds like he already had a reputation for his waffly nature, while playing as Town. Was still on-board with the scum lynch, and while he has several posts that strike me as fuzzy instead of Townie, they don't really strike me as Scummy. #6: Ticktock - As he pointed out, we're on the same page about virtually everything. When I notice a flawed argument and wait for someone to point out the same problem with it that I see, he has done that a time or two. When I ask him a question, he gives me the answer I want to see. And sometimes, when I think about asking him a question, he gives me the answer I want to see before I actually get the question posted. Hated the tarot stuff, but he's been a useful contributor since. Don't mind seeing him get a few answers from the "Town leaders" since no one else was doing it. Think his defense of Barakos would have been awfully bold if he were Scum, in a setup that guarantees either a Cop or Vigilante. #7: Breshke - This guy is in this game, too. In case anyone forgot. Short filter, but the posts that he does have, I'm generally a fan of. #8: Moosy - Hasn't given us much to go on either. Pulled this same "I am Scum and you should lynch me" card in a prior game, where he was Town. Don't know if he would go back to that play as Town for a second game in a row. But don't know that he would go back to that play as Scum either, and just hope that people would read him as Town for it again. (It did very nearly get him lynched last time.) Still null to slightly Town. #9: NocturneMage - Might be a bit higher, if it didn't seem like he can't be paired with either of my highest scumreads. (Hooray for association cases!) Later posts do seem better, but some of the early posts are pretty damn unhelpful. Don't know who mentioned it, but he had a tendency early to just ask people questions about what they thought about someone else's stated opinion. These questions had predictable answers, that would probably be short and not generate much interesting discussion. Asking questions is good. But asking questions like that is bad, because they take up just as much space in your filter (so it looks like you're participating and being inquisitive) but it doesn't actually go anywhere. Happily engages in a worthless discussion about his experience in RL Mafia games, while failing to actually draw conclusions about what is going on. #10: Flexes - Don't tell me that you are currently in the process of writing up your thoughts, and will post it as soon as it is done, and then disappear. Hate this play, but I think it is nearly as bad for a Scum player as it is for a Town player. I do not see much Scum motivation behind this action, so I think he's probably almost as likely to be AFK Town as to be lurking Scum. But if we get rid of him, we obviously are not risking a helpful contributor. #11: Rels - If there's one thing everyone should understand by now, it's why I am scumreading Rels. As I mentioned before, it is my belief that the circumstantial evidence works in Rels' favor. But when I read his POSTS, they ooze scum. #12: Sulfurus - Activity level is basically a perfect match for prior Scum games. First post was strange, and his posts have never improved. In his last scum game, his first post was strange, and his posts never improved. The only post of his that doesn't match his Scum games looks like a lazy mimic from his Town game in Newbie X, when he decided he couldn't figure out how to play Townie without being Townie, so he just does some copy & paste work from a game where he was Town. Reads are bad. Volunteers to offer more information about his reads, if anyone asks for it. People ask for information about his more controversial reads, and he fails to offer more information about some of them, while posting additional info about his read that already matched thread sentiment. Every time the dude posts, I do my best to read with an open mind, and then it just ends up being another strike against him. Some good people for the Doctor to heal: Folks that are high on this list? Some good people for the Vigilante to shoot: Flexes, Sulfurus, mayyybe Moosy Some good people for the Cop to check: Rels, Mage, mayyybe Breshke Rels is a way better Cop check than Vig shot, because if he's actually Town, he could be more help later than I would probably expect from my list of Vig shots. If nothing else, a Town check on Rels at least forces me to view the game from a fresh perspective (if I'm not the night kill). Flexes is excluded from the Cop check list because if the check comes back Town, it doesn't really give us a useful contributor that we know is giving us honest information. It gives an AFK first-time player who might get modkilled. Sulfurus is excluded from the Cop check list because like Moosy said, Sulfurus is probably the Godfather. [This is a joke. I explain that since some people in this thread have trouble identifying jokes.] | ||
n00bKing
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On July 27 2015 03:59 raynpelikoneet wrote: You are both arguing about semantics so feel free to point out how what Rels says here is clearly another lie, because i don't really understand it. You seemed to understand what made Rels a liar, in your post at the end of Page 46. You say "Okay, I understand. Rels, please elaborate." Are you telling me that his "explanation" on Page 47 was actually satisfying to you?! Because what else could you possibly expect him to say there, if he's Scum? I would have expected yet another retcon job about what he meant. And that's just what we got. "When I said VT, I didn't actually mean VT, I really just meant Town." "When I said prepared post, I didn't actually mean prepared post, I really just meant that he thought about it a lot before posting it." "When I said that he thought long and hard before making the post, and that it wasn't just instant reactions, I didn't actually mean any of that. I really just meant that although the individual remarks each required no forethought, and were instant reactions, he still thought long and hard before going ahead and making the post, because it covers 3 separate topics." I just don't get how someone reads all of this backtracking and re-wording from Rels, and doesn't have their BS-detector going off like crazy. You find Rels' explanations for how his posts came to say what they SAY (INSTEAD OF what he MEANT) to be reasonable? | ||
n00bKing
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On July 27 2015 04:08 raynpelikoneet wrote: i'll be honest i think Rels is town for this: I don't care to elaborate further but he is totally town because he was the only one who gets this. Hmm. I would have assumed that everyone "gets it." | ||
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On July 27 2015 04:26 MoosyDoosy wrote: It would be great if n00bKing could look into the associative cases of these three since he’s good at that and stop being tunneled on Rels for a moment. You gonna say stuff like this to me every single game? I have to keep going back to Rels only because no one else is posting any arguments against him where I can be like "Yeah, that." It's not going to keep me from looking at everything else. It's not like I'm so focused on Rels that I can't think about or talk about anything else. I read like 9 filters during this Phase, okay? I'll have my head in the game. | ||
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On July 27 2015 04:26 disformation wrote: Mh. Got kinda ninjaed by MoosyDoosy, Both his town circle and his PoE list look rather agreeable and is probably something town would avoid to post like this. ? Do you mean scum would avoid posting it, instead of town? Otherwise, I can't figure out that sentence. | ||
n00bKing
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On July 27 2015 05:18 MoosyDoosy wrote: n00bKing, thoughts about your list after looking at my most recent posts? Yours seems solid and more or less mine although I have people on mine in a slightly different order. Yeah, your most recent posts fall in line with my thoughts better than your earlier posts. I think I have Breshke a little more townie than you do. And I have Ticktock more townie than you do (though you aren't scumreading him super hard or anything). So for the most part, we only sharply disagree on Rels. Much like how Damdred and I most sharply disagree on Rels. I could see bumping you up a Town slot. But it's not that big of a deal either way. | ||
n00bKing
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On July 27 2015 05:27 ruXxar wrote: That would be barakos confirmed scum: Interesting. Well then yeah, Barakos made a really good point about why Mage is suspicious! lol : \ Was Barakos in any trouble yet, at that point? Is it possible he was pushing Mage to make Mage look better if Barakos got lynched? Or was this all too early for that? | ||
n00bKing
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On July 27 2015 05:38 MoosyDoosy wrote: Uh, which part. The tunneled part which is true? Or the the associative case part which you're the best at? Either way I'll read Rels filter and yours again just to make you happy. The part where every game, you tell me to not get so tunneled, even though I'm participating in conversations on every topic that gets raised. At worst, you could accuse me of confirmation bias. So that although I'm looking at everything, I keep bringing myself back to the same conclusions about Rels, and can't shake myself out of it. But someday I'll show you an example of a player who has true tunnel vision, and literally will not talk about anything or think about anything except their lynch target. Then you can compare that to the way I behaved this game and the last game, and see what I mean. (It's also worth nothing that when I was "tunneled" on TJ in our last game, he WAS scum.) | ||
n00bKing
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On July 27 2015 05:50 disformation wrote: I feel like scum would leave itself with more null or "unsure on that guy" reads in order to have some room to wiggle around later on. E.g. could I see scum cutting 1-2 ppl from your town circle and be like "eh I have a slight lean, need to reread". So they can jump onto them if someone makes a good case or something. And/Or overall more waffly reads. So the answer is yes, you meant "scum" where you put "town?" If so, everything makes sense. | ||
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Okay. Then I guess I feel a little better about him. And if I feel a little better about Moosy too, then the Town list starts to get really big, and starts to leave a gap between the 3 names at the bottom (Flexes/Rels/Sulfurus) and everyone else. But with there only being 2 Scum left, I guess having a short suspect list is okay. | ||
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On July 27 2015 06:39 MoosyDoosy wrote: How many hours until night time ends? 20 minutes, I think. | ||
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I know that the Mafia attacked me on Night 1 of Newbie 11, and that they attacked me on Night 2 of Newbie 12. So maybe you are thinking of attacking me tonight, too. But don't do it! n00bKing wrote:having so much crossover in the player lists for the Newbie games is making it feel more like a "community" I guess. In the first game, I didn't know anyone so there wasn't anything to do but get down to business. I am also in a lighter mood because my move is finished (whereas it was in-progress during the first game, and I was busy unpacking all the time during the second game) and because my birthday is this weekend. w00t! Don't kill me on my birthday, you dicks! | ||
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The Mafia players are dicks. Lynch somebody who is a dick. My death could mean that Rels is scum and wanted to silence me, but it could just as easily be a frame-up. So I don't know if that is "actionable." I would say it just means Rels becomes a better Cop check than he was already. You'll still have my filter here, so just keep the things I've said about Rels in mind, as the game goes on. Trying to think what else it might mean if I am killed. Might bizarrely implicate Ticktock. Don't have time to really flesh that thought out, but hopefully someone could figure out what I mean. Definitely would look bad for Sulfurus. And I don't think anyone would bother trying to "frame" Sulfurus, when he's already scumread by a few people, and not being helpful even if he's Town. My death is scum-indicative for Sulfurus, I think. That's probably about it. Good luck! | ||
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Aaaand here we are: | ||
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On July 27 2015 07:13 ruXxar wrote: What I mean is that judging him for not returning and giving us his reads list isn't as scum indicative if he went completely afk after his last post. I'm with Damdred. It wasn't that scum indicative anyway, because Scum would not want to do something like that and appear so suspicious. Town also doesn't want to do something like that because...it appears so suspicious. It's a play that I hate regardless of allegiance, and it was PoE that had him so high in my lynch list. There was no reason to think he was Town. He was sitting on 0 Townie points. Everyone with a smaller number on the list at least had some. | ||
n00bKing
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On July 27 2015 07:16 ruXxar wrote: Which means we are running setup A or B, with cop + medic/veteran. I think that's the most likely option. But it's not ironclad. Theoretically, Flexes could BE the Vigilante, which certainly explains how he doesn't get shot. Otherwise, you need some other Vigilante who just didn't fire, for whatever reason. On July 27 2015 07:16 ruXxar wrote: So if cop has a red-check, he should tell us imo. Durr. Perhaps not right away though. | ||
n00bKing
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On July 27 2015 07:22 ruXxar wrote: Also if a veteran got shot he should definitely speak up as well. Mafia would already know who the veteran is, but we don't unless he tells us. Makes sense. Doctor save is more likely in a vacuum, but if it was a Veteran instead, I don't see any downside to him telling us. | ||
n00bKing
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On July 27 2015 07:24 disformation wrote: In both of my first two games we lynched scott D1. So congrats on making it to D2 scott. =D The key to avoiding the Day 1 Noose is to not play Day 1. | ||
n00bKing
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Umm...yeah. | ||
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On July 27 2015 07:35 Damdred wrote: Noobs response is super interesting. Response to what? | ||
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On July 27 2015 09:16 ruXxar wrote: Same question for you n00bking, why make all the posts before the day post about "pls don't kill me scum"? Did you seriously think you were getting NKed? "all the posts" huh? It was ONE post. And I am not going to give you an answer about how likely I thought it was that I would be killed, or why I asked the Mafia to not kill me. | ||
n00bKing
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On July 27 2015 09:43 MoosyDoosy wrote: Actually, this doesn't mean much on second thought because we don't know who Doctor saved. Hm...I doubt it would have been n00bKing though. Okay...good recovery, Moosy. Because there wouldn't be many ways for you to know that Scum decided to let me live, instead of me being saved. | ||
n00bKing
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On July 27 2015 10:24 Tictock wrote: Nice save medic! Seems pretty likely that we have Doc/Cop setup going, slim chance of a Vigi who held their shot (which you shouldn't do if your a vigi). Guess Vigilante could also have been roleblocked. But yeah, Cop seems more likely. Then again, Doctor was more likely than Veteran, and we have a Veteran claim now, so you never know. | ||
n00bKing
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On July 27 2015 10:41 Tictock wrote: Need to do some re-reading but at the moment my reads haven't really changed. Most Likely scum: Moosy Sulf Bre Yeah, tough for anyone's reads to change too much when it's the same cast of characters still. So, everyone ready to lynch Rels yet? :D No? ##Vote: Sulfurus | ||
n00bKing
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On July 27 2015 11:37 ruXxar wrote: Not surprised at all. Figured you were either medic saved or the veteran. To me you were the NK target 100%, which means you are on point.. This is another thing that is likely, but not certain. Mafia didn't kill Kelsier on Night 1 of the last Newbie game because he was right about things YET. Mafia said they killed him because they were afraid he would figure everything out LATER. Could be the same case here with rayn, if he's a player of strong reputation. On July 27 2015 11:37 ruXxar wrote: Someone might say "but oh, mafia have a role blocker, why didn't they just role block rayn then shoot him?" I don't think mafia thinks like that. *shrug* They probably do if they were in Newbie XII, which used a similar setup, and which contained a lot of discussion about how idiotic it would be for the Mafia to not roleblock their target, in a setup they know contains a Veteran. So assuming rayn's Vet claim is legit (obviously if there is another Vet or a Doctor out there somewhere, they should counter-claim him) then I think we either have: a Mafia team that is dumb, a Mafia team that wasn't in Newbie XII and just didn't think about it (and if they have a coach, the coach didn't bring it up either) or a Mafia team that decided to swing for the fences, because of the Day 1 result, as you hypothesized. I don't think that hypothesis is AS bad as Ticktock does. It's at least within the realm of possibility. Especially if they were reading rayn as Vanilla for some reason or other. | ||
n00bKing
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On July 27 2015 12:38 Tictock wrote: So if rayn is our vet there is no reason for our Vig or Doc to claim. Jesus, Ticktock. If rayn is our vet there can't BE a Doc. You JUST posted the setup roles, in the post before this one. lol Upgrading Ticktock from Town to DumbTown (which is even bettter). | ||
n00bKing
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On July 27 2015 13:01 raynpelikoneet wrote: Vigilante was roleblocked or is Scott. It's not a throwawqy claim BECAUSE MAFIA KNOWS THE SETUP. NOW TOWN ALSO KNOWS THE SETUP. I think he just meant that there are no consequences to making the claim. Like, you can do it without thinking about it. That's not the way I would use "throwaway claim" but I assume that's what he meant. | ||
n00bKing
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On July 27 2015 13:05 raynpelikoneet wrote: How the fuck was doctor more likely than a veteran?!?!?!? Uh, because no one died? I'm pretty sure you can figure this one out on your own. If there is anyone that can't understand why a Doctor was more probable than a Veteran, after a zero-death Night Phase, something is wrong. | ||
n00bKing
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On July 27 2015 13:22 raynpelikoneet wrote: Yeah i havent been right yet. Good comparison. I just singlehandedly lynched mafia. *sigh* The Barakos lynch is no longer relevant, when a Scum team is evaluating whether you are right about things YET. There's a reason why ruXxar went and dug up your night reads. If he's right that you were targeted for being "on point" then those are what matter, not the fact that you were part of the Barakos lynch. | ||
n00bKing
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On July 27 2015 16:26 ruXxar wrote: Here's how: Veteran is given to a townie at random. A medic save can be directed. The list of reasonable NK targets is smaller than all the players in the game. Therefore the chance that a medic saved a potential NK target is higher than mafia randomly hitting a veteran. Correct. | ||
n00bKing
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On July 27 2015 16:25 Rels wrote: Second, I was roleblocked. Oh FFS. Seriously? Someone pleeeease counterclaim this block, or something. On July 27 2015 16:25 Rels wrote: My potential night actions were: So I believe one of these two is mafia. Then you don't understand how thinking works. In what world does Mafia Flexes think you are a Vigilante, and roleblock you because he's afraid that you're going to do EXACTLY WHAT YOU SAY YOU WOULD DO IF YOU WERE THE VIGILANTE?? And in what world does Mafia n00bKing think that you are a Cop, and roleblock you because he's afraid that you're going to do EXACTLY WHAT YOU SAY YOU WOULD DO IF YOU WERE THE COP?? If the roleblock goes uncountered, then you're right on the edge of being completely confirmed Town. And yet you're STILL actively playing against the Town's win condition, by putting forth reasoning like this, and setting the stage for a mislynch on me. Rels wrote:Amazingly, this may be the only post addressed to him he didn't answer. That is super suspicious. So, noobking: please do what you were requested to. 1 sentence without fluff explaining my lie. Actually, for me to ignore your scummy request is not suspicious at all. For you to MAKE your scummy request, that is what's suspicious. As I said, you're right on the cusp of being confirmed Town. But continue to push things that have EXCLUSIVELY scum motivation. Why would a Town player EVER ask me to cut the explanation of your lie down to 1 sentence, when I have already so thoroughly explained it through the use of more sentences? You're asking me to intentionally use poor communication, instead of good communication. If that's not scummy, nothing is, because it invites my words to be misinterpreted, or worse. You want a 1 sentence explanation of how I know with absolute certainty that you lied? Looks like this: You said that he thought long and hard before making the post, instead of being free of mind and just posting what he felt, and then said that you never said his remarks required thought, and admitted that his remarks are off-the-cuff instant reactions. There you go. Your positions are incompatible with one another. And you could have admitted that you made a mistake instead of telling the lie, or you could have tried to say that it only looks like a lie because you changed your mind. But you never did. You only stood by the lie, and defended the lie. Now, IF you are Town, then start talking like someone who at least has SOME minimal amount of interest in achieving the Town's win condition. And if you CAN'T help me achieve the Town's win condition, then at the very least, GET OUT OF THE WAY. | ||
n00bKing
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On July 27 2015 17:18 disformation wrote: Just arrived at work. Short thought-dump / updates. I think this is pretty much WIFOM. Can you make a case on either without relying on that? It's so much worse than WIFOM. For his theory to make sense, the Scum team has to actually be playing against their own win condition, just for the *sake* of WIFOM. And the Day 1 lynch result hardly left them any room to be playing against their own win condition, in favor of being sneaky. | ||
n00bKing
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On July 27 2015 17:20 Rels wrote: Of course that doesn't make you or Flexes confirmed mafia. But the mafia team took the risk of hitting the veteran to roleblock me. Completely dismissing the possibility of them afraid of my powers, like you're doing, is ridiculous. Oh hey look, you're misrepresenting my position. I am SO surprised. Read it again. I did not eliminate the possibility of the scum team thinking you might be a Cop or Vig. I only eliminated two extremely specific scenarios. One where Flexes is Scum and thinks you're the Vig, and one where I am scum and think you're the Cop. Every other scenario where you're a Vig or Cop can still make sense. There is something else that I really want to add on this topic, which more strongly demonstrates how I'm right and you're wrong, but it should wait until after the game. On July 27 2015 17:20 Rels wrote: It is a valid request, because I explained how I didn't lie and you're still saying I'm lying. Your explanation was false. I'll just leave it at that, instead of rehashing the whole thing over again, while I wait to see if there's a counterclaim on your roleblock (though I don't expect one, because I can't understand why you would fakeclaim the block). On July 27 2015 17:20 Rels wrote: Good summary. I don't see any lie though. The explanation of how I can know it's a lie immediately followed the summary. But of course, you didn't respond to that part of my post. However, "I'll just leave it at that, instead of rehashing the whole thing over again." On July 27 2015 17:20 Rels wrote: I am trying to solve the game. That would be really neat. I can hardly wait until there's a way for me to be able to tell. | ||
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On July 27 2015 17:23 Rels wrote: @noobking: what is you read on TT ? I already upgraded him from Town to DumbTown. If Ticktock is Scum, I'll eat my hat. | ||
n00bKing
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On July 27 2015 17:26 Rels wrote: Wow this is ridiculous. That is WIFOM, not worse than WIFOM. Look at these possibility: 1 noobking is a mafia (not GF). Rels said he was going to check noobking. The mafia team has to roleblock Rels to avoid a red check. 2 Flexes is mafia. Rels said he was going to shoot Flexes. The mafia team has to roleblock Rels to avoir a mafia kill. Those are not reasonable "possibilities." If Flexes is Scum, and knows there is a Vigilante in the game, he can be very confident that he will not be shot by Rels (even on the off chance that Rels is that Vigilante, which is already unlikely for reasons that I can't explain without damaging the Town). If n00bKing is Scum, and knows there is a Cop in the game, he can be very confident that he will not be checked by Rels (even on the off chance that Rels is that Cop, which is already unlikely for reasons that I can't explain without damaging the Town). The second scenario is particularly ludicrous, because you're trying to tell me that after I spent Day 1 and Night 1 painting you as a suspect, I then up and ROLEBLOCKED you, in a game where there is a guaranteed Scum roleblocker but no possibility of a Town roleblocker. ??? | ||
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On July 27 2015 17:34 Rels wrote: It is WIFOM to eliminate these two scenarios. No. And I already said why. On July 27 2015 17:34 Rels wrote: Then don't talk about it ... I didn't. Why are you bringing it back up, if you don't want me to talk about it? On July 27 2015 17:34 Rels wrote: My positions are not incompatible with one another, as I've already said. Which is what I mean when I say that you continue to defend the lie. | ||
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On July 27 2015 17:37 Rels wrote: So your likely mafia team is Sulfu + Flexes or NM I think ? If there's a Vigilante in the game, you being roleblocked largely eliminates Flexes as a possible suspect. Sulfu + NM, and if one of those was wrong, I would look at maybe Breshke or Moosy. If it's a Cop setup instead, Sulf + Flexes, and if one of those was wrong, I would look at NM next. | ||
n00bKing
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On July 27 2015 17:50 Rels wrote: I agree that if you are mafia, it's bad for you to roleblock me (or kill me). BUT if you know there is a cop in the setup, you have no choice but to do that. Bad situation but wifomable > red check. lol, NONSENSE. What didn't you understand about "If n00bKing is Scum, and knows there is a Cop in the game, he can be very confident that he will not be checked by Rels (even on the off chance that Rels is that Cop, which is already unlikely for reasons that I can't explain without damaging the Town)."? Seriously, your refusal to use reason and common sense is driving me crazy. Just STOP posting for a little while, THINK about what you've just said, and come back later. | ||
n00bKing
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On July 27 2015 17:55 Rels wrote: Then it's weird you're townreading me then. My rb claim can be wifomed, just like the scenario where you rb me. Really? How? Neither one of those is WIFOM. They both make NO SENSE. Why would you, as Scum, claim being roleblocked here, if the real roleblock target would just counterclaim you? And if there is no other roleblock target, why didn't you just roleblock the player you attacked? The only way this makes any sense is if the roleblocker just failed to turn in an action at all, because he was afk or something, so that there was no roleblock in the first place. I would designate that as extremely unlikely. For you to fakeclaim a roleblock would be just as ridiculous as for me to roleblock you. | ||
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On July 27 2015 17:56 Rels wrote: @noobking To be clear: you think these two things are true: - I lied - I am town Confirm ? I *think* the second one is true. I *KNOW* the first one is true. | ||
n00bKing
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On July 27 2015 17:59 Rels wrote: I don't understand. You are saying: - I'm probably not the cop - On the off-chance I'm the cop, I won't check you I don't understand why you are saying that. Especially the second part. HOW CAN YOU NOT UNDERSTAND THAT?? Again, Seriously, your refusal to use reason and common sense is driving me crazy. Just STOP posting for a little while, THINK about what you've just said, and come back later. | ||
n00bKing
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On July 27 2015 20:26 Rels wrote: Yeah it is WIFOM, but it is a plausible scenario. At the very least, it proves that him voting / pushing Barakos is not town indicative. It is a plausible scenario. The only issue I would have with it is that I question whether Sulfurus would really believe that this "Town Cred" (once he had earned it) would actually enable him to lead mislynches. Imagine you are Scum Sulfy in this game, and consider the performance of Scum Sulfy in his last two games. Can you talk yourself into believing that if you bus Barakos and people townread you for it, you'll actually be active enough (and convincing enough) to be a major factor in getting some mislynches later? Seems iffy at best. But whatever. Human beings are notoriously bad at self-analysis. So maybe he would think he could pull it off, even if I think it sounds hard to swallow. And it's possible that he wasn't thinking that far down the line. He might not have looked beyond "bus partner, get Town Cred" to actually think about what he needed to DO with that Town Cred once he had it. | ||
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On July 27 2015 22:35 NocturneMage wrote: To add - I know what bussing means, but I'm trying to grasp the relationship between where someone is on a voting wagon and the likeliness of that person being scum. Depending on the nature of the lynch, there are certain places along the voting order where you are more likely and less likely to find Scum. In a mislynch on a Town player, there are particular slots in that voting order where the scum are more likely to be sitting. In a very tight vote count that results in a Scum lynch, it is less likely that there will be Scum votes on the lynched player at all. (There was just an example of this in Newbie XII, where Sulfurus was lynched as Scum in a tight vote, and it turned out that 0 of the players who voted against Sulf were Scum.) In a landslide vote that results in a Scum lynch, there are again particular slots in the voting order where a teammate who is bussing is more likely to be sitting. I learned what these slots are through experience in my own games, and when applying it to games that I only observed, the patterns hold true. (Not all the time, of course. But often enough to call them "patterns.") Ticktock has apparently learned what the slots are through his own experience as well, so that when he named 3 players that are most likely to have bussed Barakos, he named exactly the same 3 players I would have. And when I questioned him about how he selected those 3 names, he gave exactly the same reasoning I used. After thinking this through pretty carefully, I don't think that I should offer you a full explanation of exactly why those are the slots to look in. Because the Mafia may not know about these patterns and how they work (and if YOU'RE Mafia, then it is pretty obvious that the Mafia doesn't know about them) and if I overexplain the principles, I'm inviting you to WIFOM me with them later in the game. If you only know which slots but don't know WHY, you'll have a tougher time putting together reasoning that could trick me into participating in a mislynch. | ||
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On July 27 2015 23:31 Damdred wrote: And that would possibly still be my list tt probably would be more towards the towny end of things atm, moosy more towards the bottom. We need more specific language from you, if you want to keep Sulfurus out of the Noose. Where is Flexes in that progression? If Moosy is "more towards the bottom" then is Flexes AT the bottom? Or is Moosy your best scum read, among the players who weren't on the wagon? | ||
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On July 28 2015 02:27 raynpelikoneet wrote: We do not lynch sulfurus. If you think whrn every single person in the game is okay with lynching him except for me and Damdred, will he flip mafia? Lynch tictock. Unless you cant see why he is mafia, especially with this retarded push on sulfurus, then at least vote for scott, who is also mafia. I expect this is evident, but you'd have a much better chance of me voting against Scott than against Ticktock. If Damdred thinks Moosy is the lynch (instead of either of your targets) then I'll let you guys have that debate. I don't really think Moosy is a good lynch today though. | ||
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First he said this: Rels wrote: I wrote a big post saying how he was mafia for a tons of reasons, and when I reread it before posting I realize most of it was nonsense. I'm pretty happy I did not post it And then he gave us his latest scum reads, and it looks like this: Rels wrote: For now my scumteam is Sulfurus + Flexes/scott. Maybe Breshke instead of one of those two. And if I'm wrong on one those three, mayyyyyyybe MD, TT or NM, though I will really need some rock solid cases to consider voting them. There's a certain someone by the name of "n00bKing" who doesn't appear anywhere in there. But I said I would answer ruXxar, so I'll still go ahead and do it. On July 27 2015 19:56 ruXxar wrote: Why would rels not check n00nking if rels is cop. Explain like I'm 5. Okay, I'm going to try to imagine that ruXxar is 5. ruXxar is 5...let's see if...oh, done! Wow, that was surprisingly easy. Hmm, this kind of explains a lot, actually! If Rels were the Cop, he would not check me, because during the Night Phase, he posted suggestions to the power roles, and he gave only ONE name to the Cop, and that name was MINE. Children have wondrous imaginations, so use yours, and put yourself in the shoes of a Rels who is the Cop. Imagine you're the Cop, and during the Night Phase, you suggest who the Cop should target. Imagine you give only one name. Then imagine that you...go ahead and turn in a check on that name. Did you notice how your brain stopped you and said "No, no, that's stupid"? Okay then. If it becomes necessary later, I will also be ready to provide additional reasons why people can know that: 1) I can't be Scum 2) Even if I were Scum, my team would never have roleblocked Rels 3) Even if I were Scum, I wouldn't play this way if I was the roleblocker instead of the Godfather (which is what is required, for me to be afraid that Rels is the Cop and will turn in a check on me. Otherwise, I want that check to get turned in.) | ||
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On July 28 2015 04:46 ruXxar wrote: ##Townshield sulfurus And are you voting for anyone? | ||
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On July 28 2015 05:28 disformation wrote: Do we have a decent counterwagon? Lack of countersomethings would be somewhat concerningly. I guess the counterwagons are presently Ticktock and Moosy. There is then some people expressing willingness to lynch Scott, but there aren't any votes there. Some people sounding a bit suspicious of Breshke or myself, but no votes in those places either. It's a bit of a cluster, because the people who agree on not wanting to lynch Sulfurus disagree on who to lynch instead. | ||
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On July 28 2015 05:49 raynpelikoneet wrote: I am serious i am THIS FUCKING CLOSE tolynch you for your last sentence in this post. Do not consider noobking town please. ...what? There's nothing about me even IN that post. Agree that the last sentence in his post is dumb. What's that got to do with me? | ||
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On July 28 2015 06:07 disformation wrote: *sigh* Okay. Sry, for being pretty useless today. =/ ##unvote Will go to bed now. Looks to me like rayn needs a nap a lot more than you do. On July 28 2015 06:07 disformation wrote: Random note: Breshke is awefully MIA. Yup. | ||
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On July 28 2015 06:57 scott31337 wrote: So Sulf places the fourth vote on Barakos just before this post. This would be a pretty sick bus when this seems like a pretty good post (one of his best so far) - I just don't see the bus yet. The vote count you quoted does not have the votes in the same order they were actually cast. Sulfurus was not the 4th vote on Barakos, he was the 5th. This may not affect your read of him, but I'm just clearing up the confusion. On July 28 2015 06:57 scott31337 wrote: N00b goes to bed and does not vote. I had actually voted long before that. I was the first player to vote, and when moving my vote, I never left it in the "unvote" position. On July 28 2015 06:57 scott31337 wrote:So the n00b vote or NM vote could be a bus - beyond that - I think everyone on that wagon is town. No, Ticktock was right about where the Scum would be, if they are bussing Barakos. So my suspicions of NM have been exclusively about his posts. His vote timing works in his favor. | ||
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3 on Moosy, 3 on Sulfurus, and 2 on Ticktock? Is that right? | ||
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If anyone needs me to rip his post to shreds, let me know. But I can just ignore it if that works better for everyone. | ||
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On July 28 2015 10:30 LightningStrike wrote: Day 2 Votecount sulfurus (4): n00bKing, moosydoosy (2): Tictock, Sulfurus, ticktack (1): raynpelikoneet tictock (1): scott31337 n00bking (1): ruXxar Not Voting (6): Barakos, disinformation, Flexes, Tickock, Damdred, Breshke Sulfurus is set to be lynched. 9 votes cast and 6 players not voting. 15 players. We have more people than we started with! This game is gonna take forever! Oh, and someone tell Barakos to hurry up and vote. Jeeeez. | ||
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On July 28 2015 23:24 ruXxar wrote: Voting for n00bking here is not going to save sulfurus. ##Unvote ##Vote tictock Voting for Ticktock here is not going to save Ticktock. Headed to work right now, but should be able to make a few posts from there, before EoD. 2 really interesting posts from Breshke that I'll want to touch on (one that I like and one that I don't). I'll mention something else that I didn't like about an old post from Sulfurus. And I'll post up a "Town Case" on Ticktock, if he's still in vote trouble. | ||
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If you look at the original WIFOM scenario, in the movie, it is what I would call "pure WIFOM." Disregard Westley's immunity, and the fact that it would turn out both goblets were poisoned. Instead, just consider the game as it is presented to Vizzini (and as it is presented to the audience). In that scenario, there is really no incentive for the person staging the game to put the poison in one goblet as opposed to the other. There is no advantage or disadvantage to picking one or the other, since the opponent can just switch them. Everything is a pure 50/50, because the person being presented with the choice has NO way of knowing where the poison will be placed, and the person staging the game has NO way of knowing whether the opponent will choose to switch the goblets. But although that WIFOM scenario was 50/50, not all of them are. Sometimes the person staging the game (in this case, the Mafia) will have incentive to not make a certain choice. And the only reason for them to go ahead and make that choice anyway is to "look Townie." They play against their own agenda, for the sake of hoping that people will think "Since Scum wouldn't want to do that...they must not be Scum." This is not pure WIFOM, because the Mafia has reasons NOT to do that thing. Thus, doing that thing is slighty-to-somewhat Town indicative. Not hugely indicative, because it's still WIFOM. But it isn't NAI, because it isn't pure WIFOM. A couple of players in this game have made posts that indicate they aren't aware of (or at least aren't factoring in) these varying levels or degrees of WIFOM. Rels in particular is guilty of taking anything that a Mafia player could do that doesn't benefit them in any way except to "look Townie" and label it as WIFOM and then ignore it. There's a difference between things a Mafia player can do to look Townie that "don't benefit them" and things they can do to look Townie that "hurt them." Not all WIFOM is created equal. | ||
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On July 25 2015 14:02 Sulfurus wrote: I'll start with my read on Barakos since it was the easiest to figure out, just look at this post. And he puts in a series of quotes, with the last one being Barakos' ill-fated "weather here in Germany sucks" post. He then adds: Sulfurus wrote: At first I was very excited to see this since it has the same 'shape' as his posts from NSMX where he had nothing but good logic. However the actual content of the post has none of the strong conclusions that I associate with Barakos. It looks like it was written so people couldn't say he hasn't given reads instead of trying to catch mafia. What's unusual about this is that Sulfurus had already posted after that post from Barakos, and made no mention of it whatsoever. But once Sulfurus decides it is time to label Barakos as scum, suddenly the reasoning behind it is that old post. If he had said that after some additional consideration, he eventually decided that this thing or that thing about the post seemed a little scummy, then fine. But phrasing like "it was the easiest to figure out" and "just look at this post" makes it sound to me like he's saying the post was slap-u-in-the-face scummy from the moment he saw it. If that were the case, then why did he keep those impressions to himself, while posting about other things? And not tell us about this obviously scummy behavior until it sheeps thread sentiment? I won't try to tell you this is nail-in-the-coffin proof of Sulfurus' guilt. But it's another point against him. | ||
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On July 28 2015 12:50 MoosyDoosy wrote: I'm town, ruXxar's town, I think Tictock's town. This basically leaves us just scott. But as someone pointed out, rayn's claim as Veteran leaves us with a Vigi. Which means we either have a dumb Vigi who didn't shoot N1 or scott as Vigi which makes me reluctant to lynch him because of this fact. Decided my response to this post is counter-productive. Flagging just so I'll have it in my own filter to remind me later. | ||
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On July 28 2015 17:43 raynpelikoneet wrote: "I am sure scott is mafia, breshke is scummy too." Lets not vote for the guy i am SURE is mafia. As Ticktock pointed out, this is the opposite of what actually happened. But then AFTER you make this post, he switches his vote from Breshke (positively Scum) to Scott (pretty sure he's Scum) and suddenly your point is actually correct! Which means that Ticktock is actively helping you portray him as Scum, by flip-flopping on this position. Scum are more likely to flip-flop when it's convenient. Here, Ticktock is flip-flopping to his own detriment, right in front of the person who was already pushing his lynch. I know, I know. "WIFOM" you tell me. But it's not pure WIFOM. This is slightly Town-indicative, and it's a player I was already townreading beforehand. | ||
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On July 28 2015 20:49 Breshke wrote: Yeah because i thought about it some more. Okay so this is flexes last post. So IF he is town he actually has SOME stuff written at this stage. Then something (lets hope not serious) happens and he can no longer play. So he lets LS know that he can no longer play. There is no way he doesnt post what he had so far into the thread. Idk if this is OGI or what because im fairly sure flexes would have had to tell LS to replace out (considering the timing) so he would have posted what he had ya know. So it makes sense if he is scum, actually had like nothing when he posted that was stalling and then had to go and because of that his slot has shat the bed because soctt can't defend specifically against this he has to instead be super townie which isn't really happening. This is a very good point. It is something I hadn't actually thought of myself, and is one of the Towniest posts that Breshke has made in this game. Are we allowed to ask the host whether Flexes ever contacted him to be replaced out? Or whether the mod just replaced him out without ever hearing from him? Because if it's the latter, fine, NAI. But if it's the former, it does increase the chance that Flexes was Scum. | ||
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On July 28 2015 21:56 Breshke wrote: I could be wrong but im fairly sure you HAVE TO roleblock someone like you can't abstain. And this is like my least favorite post from Breshke in the entire game. Someone else said they thought Breshke has actually BEEN roleblocker before. If we could get some confirmation on that it would help. But this post reeks of "Look, I can't be on the team that has the roleblocker, I don't even know how a roleblocker works!" And it is not town-indicative WIFOM because if he is Scum, this post does not hurt him at all. This type of WIFOM is strictly upside from the Scum perspective. | ||
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On July 28 2015 21:20 ruXxar wrote: Why give rels confirmed town status when n00bking was up his ass so to speak. You'd have to ask them. My best guess is that it wrecks my credibility by showing how wrong I was. As long as I'm not a blue role, getting the Town to tell me to shut up and sit in the corner is nearly as good as killing me. As an added bonus, it can frame me as scum who was worried that Rels is a Cop and was going to get a redcheck on me. I find this to be incredibly weak logic, but it was working on YOU for a little while. They might have hoped that Rels would fall for this too, explaining why they roleblock him but don't kill him (killing him makes me just as wrong, but it doesn't give him a chance to keep coming at me.) On July 28 2015 21:20 ruXxar wrote:#1) mafia team are dumb. When I think about it n00b was right in that it's unlikely rels is cop since he's telling the cop who to check. If there is a Cop in the setup, I don't think the Mafia can be particularly sure it isn't Rels. They can only be sure that if Rels is the Cop, he's not going to check ME. I gave suggestions to the Cop on who to check. Doesn't mean I'm not the Cop. But I wouldn't give a one-name suggestion, and if I did, I am not checking that guy. On July 28 2015 21:20 ruXxar wrote:#2) mafia want to make n00bking look bad for pushing on confirmed town. Yeah, especially if "bad" means "like a donkey" instead of "like scum." On July 28 2015 21:20 ruXxar wrote:#3) n00bking wanted to look townie by explaining away some wifom logic of why he wouldn't rb rels. Maybe. But it's not pure WIFOM. I'm shooting myself in the foot for the sake of WIFOM. I'd be making a sacrifice. It's Town-indicative for me that Rels was roleblocked. On July 28 2015 21:20 ruXxar wrote:#4) mafia are genius: rels is mafia and they didn't role-block anyone. Rels claims being role blocked to get confirmed town status. This is insane next level play. If this is true I want to give mega props to scum team. This occurred to me as well, but it's getting pretty deep into tinfoil hat territory. Also, if they didn't turn in a roleblock it might mean they didn't get any actions turned in at all. And instead of rayn being the target of the attack, there just wasn't an attack. I think this is only possible if Flexes is Rels' teammate. If Flexes ever flips Town, this possibility is pretty much wiped out. But if Flexes flips Red, I'm going to have to remember where I keep my tinfoil hat, and Rels is back on the menu. Maybe. | ||
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On July 29 2015 04:03 Tictock wrote: I'm still getting lynched. Not 100% on the count but it's something like Tictock 4 Sulf 3 Scott 3 Moosy 2 Well get 100%. I'm not typing all this up if I don't have to. lol | ||
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On July 29 2015 04:20 MoosyDoosy wrote: ##unvote ##Vote scott31337 Booooooooo ##unvote ##Vote Scott | ||
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On July 29 2015 04:46 Damdred wrote: Everyone who has moved why did you move to the Scott wagon. Because you told me to. :D Moosy's switch from Sulfurus to Scott pretty much nixes the Sulf lynch. (Hence why I tell him "Booooo.") So like I mentioned earlier in the game, I would move to consolidate, taking control of the Noose away from Scum, in case I am afk at the deadline. | ||
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On July 29 2015 05:00 raynpelikoneet wrote: Scott or noobking. Leaning on noobking tbh. If you're right about Ticktock, then I would lynch me, too. Since we're sharing one brain half the time in this game. But sorry, it's a Town brain. Keep looking! | ||
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How come no one is talking about the fact that Scott didn't enter the game until the beginning of Day 2? If Flexes never came back to make the post that he promised, isn't it strange that he would have turned in a Night Action? (during a Phase where he never posted at all, if I'm not mistaken?) If someone else is the real Cop, should they counterclaim Scott here? (My thinking is yes) | ||
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On July 29 2015 05:55 n00bKing wrote: Things got interesting while I was at lunch! How come no one is talking about the fact that Scott didn't enter the game until the beginning of Day 2? If Flexes never came back to make the post that he promised, isn't it strange that he would have turned in a Night Action? (during a Phase where he never posted at all, if I'm not mistaken?) If someone else is the real Cop, should they counterclaim Scott here? (My thinking is yes) Ditto if there is a real Vigilante out there. That would also make Scott a fake Cop, don't forget. | ||
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On July 29 2015 05:56 MoosyDoosy wrote: If there is a real cop, they should definitely counterclaim. n00bKing, you also quoted my post about how scott might be a PR. Can you explain your rationale behind it and respond to it? It might be important here. It's REALLY important here. So much so, that I can't imagine you calling attention to it right now if you were Scum. lol If Scott gets counterclaimed, you're his partner. (He is not just green-checking a Townie.) If he doesn't, I'm going to believe you're both Town (or at least that he's the Cop and your check came back Green. Allowing for the chance that you're the GF, but I don't think I need to worry about that right now). | ||
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On July 29 2015 05:57 raynpelikoneet wrote: Shut up and focus on the lynch. These things are why you are probably mafia. What could possibly focus on the lynch more than THAT post from me?! | ||
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[QUOTE]On July 29 2015 05:55 n00bKing wrote: Things got interesting while I was at lunch! How come no one is talking about the fact that Scott didn't enter the game until the beginning of Day 2? /QUOTE] Because I didn't get my role PM until the beginning of day 2... How fucking insightful![/QUOTE] NO KIDDING. Notice how that means you could not have turned in a Night action. Which means the only way you can have a Green check on Moosy is if Flexes turned it in, despite the fact that he never came back to the thread during Day 1, and made ZERO posts during Night 1. | ||
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On July 29 2015 05:58 scott31337 wrote: Because I didn't get my role PM until the beginning of day 2... How fucking insightful! NO KIDDING. Notice how that means you could not have turned in a Night action. Which means the only way you can have a Green check on Moosy is if Flexes turned it in, despite the fact that he never came back to the thread during Day 1, and made ZERO posts during Night 1. (Formatting Fixed) | ||
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On July 29 2015 06:03 raynpelikoneet wrote: If you think we lynchan un'cc'd cop you are an idiot or mafia. Are you OUT OF YOUR MIND? I'm actively calling for the CC, right? You believe that Flexes afk'd the second half of Day 1, and ALL of Night 1, but turned in a Night action??? | ||
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On July 29 2015 06:03 scott31337 wrote: Did you even read my crumb I made? Nope! | ||
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On July 29 2015 06:07 ruXxar wrote: You do know that other people can call in night actions for you? .. zzzzz ... zzzz ... zzz don't play dumb. No? What are you talking about? | ||
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On July 29 2015 06:09 scott31337 wrote: Just answer Rayn's question n00bking - who do you want to lynch instead? YOU, in a HEARTBEAT, if there's a counterclaim. Because the CC will be 1000x more believable than your claim. Otherwise, probably Sulfurus (still). | ||
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On July 29 2015 06:09 raynpelikoneet wrote: Waitwaitwiat. if a power role gets replaced while having not sent in an action, what happens? Is there no action or what? Of course there's no action. How could anything else be possible? | ||
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(typing up Ticktock Town Case. It'll be shorter than it would have been earlier, but I want to allow time for people to see it and have more than a few minutes to react.) | ||
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On July 29 2015 06:24 raynpelikoneet wrote: NOBODY SENDS A COP CHECK 24H INTO DAY FUCKING ONE. Is that even legal? Is it even possible for someone to send in a Night action, during the Day? | ||
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1) Tarot crap needlessly draws attention to himself and makes people irritated with him, especially after a late entrance to the thread. WIFOM is in play here, but this is slightly Town-indicative, because it is self-detrimental for the Scum version of himself. 2) Questions the "bigs" when no one else is doing so. This again makes him conspicuous. Challenging the Town leaders will make them more likely to want to lynch him later (and boy are we seeing that from rayn) but he shows no fear of those consequences. 3) Named me as a Top Town read, and said he's "never lynching me." I'm the only player that (at that stage of the game) he could name as Top Town, and I could be sure he's right about it. I don't have any reason to think that TickTock would believe I could be "pocketed" by this type of move. So it looks legit. 4) Half of Breshke's participation in this game has been due to prodding from TickTock. This could be scum-motivated only if they are both Scum. Otherwise, Scum Ticktock has no interest in making Town Breshke participate more. 5) Soft defends Barakos, when a Scum player would be more likely to either bus him HARD (to maximize Town Cred) or defend him HARD (to maximize the chances of saving him). If he wasn't sure which direction to go, he would probably just not mention him at all. Instead, he participates in conversations about Barakos, but allows himself to be in a hazy middle on him. Scum is not going to be wishy washy about a guy he knows will flip Red, while Town sentiment is clearly against the guy. 6) Correctly identified the 3 players who are mostly likely to have bussed Barakos. I had the exact same 3 players in mind, and I'm Town, so it makes me think he's coming from a Town mindset as well. 7) When I interrogated him about how he selected those 3 names (without offering ANY hint as to what the correct answer might be) he gave the correct answer. He used the same process I did, and again, I know that process came from a Town mentality. 8) Was DumbTown on Day 2, forgetting that a Doctor and Veteran cannot co-exist, which a Scum player would know, because of the fact that they know the setup. 9) Was DumbTown MUCH worse on Day 2 when he said that if he was the Cop and had a redcheck on someone, he wouldn't reveal it. He said the person should stay hidden and get more checks. Because if they reveal themselves, they'll just get roleblocked or killed. This is RIDICULOUS, because if the Cop has a redcheck, it IS the roleblocker. And there are no more checks to get, because the other Scum player is the Godfather! No Mafia player could ever make this mistake genuinely. And no Mafia player would know what I just wrote above, and yet tell the Town that if a Cop has a redcheck they shouldn't say so. ##Townshield: Ticktock | ||
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On July 29 2015 06:40 Rels wrote: Noobking i m convinced you're mafia and I think you're covering TT. But outside of TT alignment, the only reason for you not being mafia was you being cop and getting a green cbeck on me. That possibility being now dead as you didn't cc, I'm convinced you're mafia. I never once hinted at the idea that I was the Cop. I shall call you ruXxar Jr. | ||
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On July 29 2015 06:38 raynpelikoneet wrote: That is a terrible case. Enjoying your glass house? Your case against Ticktock seemed to be that "his list is terrible" and he's "unclear." | ||
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On July 29 2015 06:42 Sulfurus wrote: @n00bKing A lot of what you said only applies to your POV and there's a lot of WIFOM (I read what you said about "pure WIFOM" but it doesn't make it any better). Only 3, 6 and 7 have anything to do with my POV. The other six things could be seen and thought about by anyone. | ||
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Can any of these things happen? | ||
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*nod* | ||
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On July 29 2015 06:53 Rels wrote: Furthermore, your explanation on "if rels was cop he wouldn't check the person he SAID HE WOULD CHECK" made no sense. lol, okay ruXxar Jr. You go right ahead with posting one-name suggestion lists for power roles, and then turn in that action if you are that power role. Anyway, looks like my vote is just barking at the moon again, same as my Day 1 vote against Rels. ##Unvote ##Vote: The Moon Would really have liked to lynch Sulfurus today though. ##Unvote: ##Vote: Sulfurus But hey, since Rels has turned stupid again... ##Unvote: ##Vote: Rels Fuck Rels. :D | ||
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On July 29 2015 06:55 Rels wrote: Actually tell me why we should lynch Scott over TT I'm interested. Because Scott's Cop claim is illogical, and I know Ticktock is Town. Have you not been reading the thread? | ||
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On July 27 2015 17:31 n00bKing wrote: I already upgraded him from Town to DumbTown. If Ticktock is Scum, I'll eat my hat. Well, I hope you guys are right. But I really think you're wrong. *gets hat ready* | ||
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n00bKing
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On July 29 2015 07:11 Rels wrote: Alright getting back to party. Noobking we ll settle this, we have 3 whole days of talk (if you don't kill me)! In the meantime, you better explain fast what you meant by "damaging the town" cause that didn't mean you were cop. We don't need 3 days, I can answer that in one post. And as long as you're tunneled on a wrong target, you won't be getting killed. You're like the Mafia's best friend (again). What was damaging to the Town is my belief that RELS AIN'T NO POWER ROLE in this game. I blue hunt in my Town games, just as surely as in my Scum games. For two reasons. 1) It's good practice for whenever I DO draw a Scum role. 2) If I can figure out which blue role someone is, I can eliminate them as a Scum suspect, even if they aren't contributing to the Town win condition with their posts. Seems like a lot of players don't even think about which player might be a blue role, while they're Town. But I do. And you didn't look like one. At ALL. This is why I was so careful to correct the notion that I had said you weren't Cop or Vigilante. And I said no, I'm only ruling you out as Vig in the scenario where Flexes is Scum. And only ruling you out as Cop in a scenario where I'm Scum. I made sure that ALL other possibilities where you are Vig or Cop are left open. So that the Mafia could still think you're a blue role, even though I was pretty damn sure you weren't. So for me to say you weren't a blue role at that time is damaging to the Town. I can't say that, even though it helps me explain how I know this "n00bKing blocked Rels cuz he might be Cop that was gonna turn in a check him" is ridiculous. It's safe to say it now, because you've already ruled yourself out as one. | ||
n00bKing
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On July 29 2015 07:23 ruXxar wrote: This doesn't make ANY sense when you've ALREADY said that he can't be cop?!! I DIDN'T. Read what I JUST SAID. When somebody tried to act like I had said Rels isn't the Cop, I was very careful to correct them. And say that Rels could still be Cop in ANY scenario that doesn't involve me being Scum. And that Rels could still be Vigilante in ANY scenario that doesn't involve Flexes being Scum. On July 29 2015 07:23 ruXxar wrote:How can your explanation be damaging UNLESS you are the cop? Again, why did you not read the post you are quoting?? My explanation would have been damaging because it tells the Mafia that Rels isn't a Power Role. Otherwise they still don't know, even though I think *I* know. | ||
n00bKing
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On July 27 2015 17:30 n00bKing wrote: Oh hey look, you're misrepresenting my position. I am SO surprised. Read it again. I did not eliminate the possibility of the scum team thinking you might be a Cop or Vig. I only eliminated two extremely specific scenarios. One where Flexes is Scum and thinks you're the Vig, and one where I am scum and think you're the Cop. Every other scenario where you're a Vig or Cop can still make sense. There is something else that I really want to add on this topic, which more strongly demonstrates how I'm right and you're wrong, but it should wait until after the game. So, the first underlined portion is me making sure that the Mafia should continue to wonder about whether Rels could still be a Cop or Vigilante. And the second underlined portion...wonder what that could mean? It means that although I'm not going to tip my hand to the Mafia, I'm pretty damn sure that RELS AIN'T NO POWER ROLE. | ||
n00bKing
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On July 29 2015 07:49 ruXxar wrote: I still don't get it. There's something here that just isn't making sense to me. Okay, not looking at this game for a few hours, so my head will not asplode. Bye! | ||
n00bKing
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On July 29 2015 06:42 Breshke wrote: What if moosey was playing scummy as shit to get checked because he is the GF That's a pretty good point, but I hope you're wrong, because if Moosy ever flips Red, then some of the reasons why I cannot be Scum suddenly evaporate. | ||
n00bKing
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On July 29 2015 07:49 ruXxar wrote: I still don't get it. There's something here that just isn't making sense to me. I guess Im stupid. Can someone other than n00bking explain to me why what he said makes sense? For God's sakes, someone please do this. I avoided the thread for like 7 hours, come back, and no one has done this yet. | ||
n00bKing
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On July 29 2015 09:13 disformation wrote: So Breshke I have a hard time getting where your reads are currently. Your #1 scum is still MoosyDoosy even with green check? Your #2 scum was Flexes/Scott? You never really said so, but it is implied in your filter. What do you think of the claim? Your #3 scum was TT. If Scott goes uncountered on Day 3, then Breshke's suspect list becomes: #3 - The guy you people just lynched, who flipped Town #2 - The Cop #1 - The Cop's green check I'm not sure how alignment-indicative that is, but it's too funny for me not to comment on it. | ||
n00bKing
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It's an interesting thing to analyze. His play in this game does not match his play from any of his previous games, of either alignment. Earlier in the game, Sulfurus' play was a pretty near match to his Scum game. These were the thoughts I posted about him in my big "reads on every single player" post during Night 1: + Show Spoiler + Activity level is basically a perfect match for prior Scum games. First post was strange, and his posts have never improved. In his last scum game, his first post was strange, and his posts never improved. The only post of his that doesn't match his Scum games looks like a lazy mimic from his Town game in Newbie X, when he decided he couldn't figure out how to play Townie without being Townie, so he just does some copy & paste work from a game where he was Town. Reads are bad. Volunteers to offer more information about his reads, if anyone asks for it. People ask for information about his more controversial reads, and he fails to offer more information about some of them, while posting additional info about his read that already matched thread sentiment. Every time the dude posts, I do my best to read with an open mind, and then it just ends up being another strike against him. Some of that is still true. He still has some strange posts, and he still has some bad reads. Activity level has picked up a little, at least enough to be more in line with his Town game from Newbie X (not a very high bar to get over). Couple of things in this game that are distinctly different from his Scum games: 1) He's more serious-minded in this game. He didn't seem to care much at all, in those Scum games. You might only get 1 or 2 posts from him the whole way that represent an actual attempt to play the game. Otherwise he's just goofing off. There are comparatively fewer goof-off posts from him here (like, percentage-wise). 2) He was more of a pacifist in his Scum games. If someone seemed to be upset with him, he tried to defuse the situation quickly, and smooth things over. (You'll see a lot of Scum doing that.) But in this game, he has sometimes used a mocking tone or mixed an insult into one of his posts. 3) He didn't seem to play Devil's Advocate so much in his Scum games (this is very minor). There are, however, also some things in this game that are distinctly different from his Town game. Someone earlier said something about how this "looked like Town Sulf's meta" or something like that. No, it doesn't. It's not a match for his prior scum play, but it's not a match for his prior town play either. 1) Some of his posts in his Town game are so boring. I get maybe 2/3 through one of them and I want to skip to the next post, before finishing the one I'm looking at. Because the posts are bland, and he RAMBLES. There aren't boring, rambling posts in his scum games. There aren't boring, rambling posts in this game. He's rather concise in his Scum games (and in this one). 2) Just as his posts are concise in this game, they are also pretty clear. Most of the time, you don't get confused by a post from Sulfurus in this game because you can't figure out what he's saying. You only get confused by a post from Sulfurus in this game because you can't figure out WHY he's saying it. In his Town game, those boring, ramblings posts were fuzzy. People didn't always know what he meant, and they had to ask. 3) In that Town game, when people asked what he meant, he told them! He went ahead and clarified his posts, and explained himself. In this game, we know that there have been times that people didn't understand why he felt a certain way about something. And when they asked for clarification? Zippo. So, meta analysis on Sulfurus comes back fairly close to null. Maybe slightly Scum-indicative, but not as much as it had been earlier in the game. Post analysis is still slightly Scum-indicative, as I've outlined previously, in other comments. Vote count analysis is still slightly Scum-indicative, as (like Ticktock pointed out so long ago) Sulfurus is in one of the 3 players (along with Rels and Breshke) who were sitting in the prime bussing slots during the Barakos lynch. Overall: I think Sulfurus is going to remain in my Top 2 suspects, in a game where there are 2 Scum to find. On July 29 2015 10:22 disformation wrote: Why are you so angry about this? You are discrediting me by telling me to pay attention and call ruXxar dumb. I wasn't angry. That's not what my posts look like when I'm angry. And I was not discrediting you by telling you to pay attention. I was trying to get you to pay attention by telling you to pay attention. And then you decided that I could be right about it, or that it at least wasn't worth talking about anymore at the time. On July 29 2015 10:22 disformation wrote:Why does it like all this stuff feel like you want to lynch Rels over Barakos? Because I did. And I was never shy about it. So even when I was moving my vote to Barakos, I made it clear that although I thought he was a good lynch, I still thought Rels was the best lynch. And that's not how you bus. I would not say "I'd still rather be lynching Rels than Barakos" if I know Barakos is about to flip Red. That would not help me. On July 29 2015 10:22 disformation wrote: Could still be a bus? n00bKing was rather late on the wagon after all. He was the 7th on this wagon. Too late to the wagon for it to be a bus. 7th (of 8) on the wagon isn't even the most important way that it's too late to the wagon to be a bus. Too late in relation to how much time was left in the Phase. I only made 2 more posts in that Phase after the vote, because nothing else really happened (nor was there reason to think it would). On July 29 2015 10:22 disformation wrote: D2 he starts the train on Sulfurus. Not sure if mafia!n00bKing would boldly start a wagon like this. Wouldn't even make my Top 10 for reasons to think I'm not Mafia, but okay. I did mention earlier that Scum would usually rather hop on wagons than start them, to reduce accountability. On July 29 2015 10:22 disformation wrote: Yeah, he was right. No question. But a few of these things like 1), 3), 5), 6), 7) are either tailored to n00bKing's perspective or kinda WIFOM. Yes, already said that 3, 6 and 7 are much stronger evidence to me than they would be to others. But again, the other six points were available to everyone. The post is not just meant to tell other people why THEY should townread Ticktock. I'm also giving a more thorough explanation of why *I* was townreading Ticktock. For the people townreading ME, my view of Ticktock through the eyes of Town n00bKing is relevant. Call 1 "kinda WIFOM?" Okay, but like it says there, it's still slightly Town-indicative, because it isn't pure WIFOM, because it is self-detrimental if he's Scum. And 5 is even further from true WIFOM. For a Scum player, there's a fork in the road. Bus the hell out of Barakos, or defend the hell out of Barakos. He chooses...neither, really. So he was Town. You can say 2 and 4 and 8 are all WIFOM as well, but I think each one of them is slightly Town-indicative. And I think 9 is pretty heavily Town-indicative, just like 5. | ||
n00bKing
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On July 29 2015 10:44 MoosyDoosy wrote: Thanks. At least someone is more or less on the same page as me. Seems like you have a few people on that page. Yep, disformation had the same 3 suspects you did. But Damdred and I also have those same 3 (I'm assuming Scott doesn't get counterclaimed. If he does, I would definitely jump him up, probably to the top spot.) | ||
n00bKing
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On July 29 2015 15:05 Breshke wrote: TT was POE because i was looking outside the list of people that voted on bara. The only people left from that list are Scott - Cop Moosey - Scum and ruxxar who i think is town. I see moosey says i flipped my read on ruxxar to match thread sentiment not really sure where he is getting that from?? I gave my reasons for flipping me read on ruxxar Can you find where you did that, for us? I remember you saying "I don't think ruXxar is Scum anymore" or something like that, but I don't recall where you gave the reasons. | ||
n00bKing
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On July 29 2015 15:55 ruXxar wrote: N00b insisted he would've gotten moosy lynched for sure if he was mafia. Not so easy when moosy is your partner. I already said that if Moosy ever flips Red, it would increase the chance that I get mislynched. That's why I said I hope Breshke is wrong about Moosy being the GF. On July 29 2015 15:55 ruXxar wrote: Also he was scared as shit of getting cop checked because he's the role blocker. And where would you get the idea that I was scared? Oh, you just made that up because it fits your narrative? Okay then. If you had paid any attention to my play in this game, you might have noticed that there are at least two occasions in which I played like someone who knows he'll pass a Cop check (or that there isn't one). If Moosy flips Godfather, there are two of the ways you can know I'm Town that disappear. But they would be replaced by two ways that you can know I'm not the roleblocker, so it would still be a wash. You are way way up the wrong tree. | ||
n00bKing
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On July 29 2015 16:00 ruXxar wrote: Re-posts questions to me, on topic where he already asked someone OTHER than me to explain it to him I like your idea better, ruXxar. Now, if no one else comes through, then I'll explain it to you. If there's one thing you have to know, it's that I'll explain to you why I have to be Town, even if there aren't any votes on me anyway. But yes, let's stick with your idea, and have someone else explain it to you. Ideally, that person would be Rels, once he's not drunk anymore... | ||
n00bKing
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On July 29 2015 23:53 Rels wrote: My god that's exactly my brain if you switch noob and breshke. lol @ how amazed you are that you only had to make one (terrible) change, for your list to match with Damdred's. And Moosy's. And mine. And disformation's. | ||
n00bKing
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Might still end up being him. Him being Top 2 doesn't mean he isn't Top 1. The other in the Top 2 is NocturneMage. I need to read back through a couple of parts of the game that he backreferences in his Day 2 posts. I don't expect Breshke to be able to knock either of these out of the Top 2. (Though again, Scott would, if he's counter-claimed.) | ||
n00bKing
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YOU DIDN'T. I posted that my list is a match for Damdred's before you made that post. You just DON'T READ. | ||
n00bKing
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On July 30 2015 00:37 Rels wrote: - scott's breadcrumb was siiiick! Did you fail to notice that it is no less sick if he's Scum than if he's Town? (Probably. Failing to notice stuff has kinda been your thing in this game.) On July 30 2015 00:37 Rels wrote:- the people instantly switching from scott when he claimed are town I'm pretty sure: TT(-_-), moosy, disfo. Dumb thing to say, when you've even admitted that Scott's allegiance isn't known, and have told the Vigilante to shoot him. (Which is indeed the correct play for the Vigilante.) On July 30 2015 00:37 Rels wrote:- on the other hand, noobking's position is so weird. A little bit of sceptisism is OK, but saying he's willing to lynch scott over TT 10 minutes before deadline (which would mean NocturneMage is cop BTW) is super suspicious. Plus when I asked him his reasons, he said scott's claim was "illogical" ... WTF It does NOT mean NocturneMage is the Cop. You are wrong, as usual. Breshke could just as easily be the Cop, as he was afk during that same time-frame. This has already been mentioned before, but you DON'T READ. And there is NOTHING weird about my position. I said Scott's claim was "illogical" for all of the reasons that it WAS illogical. It is hilarious (pathetic, but hilarious) that this is like the 5th different time now that you've tried to bash me for having skepticism about Scott's claim. Yet you don't have A THING to say to this guy: On July 29 2015 06:19 raynpelikoneet wrote: ##unvote ##Vote scott31337 There is no way flexes has sent in a check. Impossible. On July 29 2015 06:22 raynpelikoneet wrote: It doesnt make any sense at all. The dude is in the middle of writing a reads post. He disappears, as a cop. He never comes back, gets replaced. BUT HE HAS SOMEHOW SENT IN A COP CHECK?!?!?! rofl On July 29 2015 06:28 raynpelikoneet wrote: I dont believefor a second scott is cop. You are allowing your intense bias to blind you every step of the way. Identical behavior from two players, and you jump all over it from one of them, yet have no reservations continuing to consider the other confirmed Town. You are also failing to notice that (just like everything else I've done the entire game) there is NO scum motivation for me to try and get Scott lynched there, even if he's the real Cop. A lynched Cop is not any better for the Mafia than an outed Cop. There is no reason at all to work so hard to try and save Ticktock when he turned out to be Town. The Scum would probably be better off having Ticktock out of the game than Scott out of the game, because Ticktock is more active. Right? Me trying to save a now-confirmed-Town Ticktock over a suspicious Cop (who is ZERO threat to the Scum team once he's outed anyway) is TOWN-INDICATIVE for me. Get it? | ||
n00bKing
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On July 30 2015 01:06 Rels wrote: noobking's explanation on me if cop not checking him is late and makes no sense Actually, it makes PERFECT sense. On July 30 2015 01:06 Rels wrote:I DONT understand how that explain the fact that I wouldn't check him if I was the cop. Can you (yes, you, reading this) read the quote above, then tell me if it made sense to you ? That would be much appreciated. And I don't understand how there could possibly be two people on this same Earth (you and ruXxar) who do not understand it. You tried to sit there and expect that people should make sense of your explanations of all your backtracking and double-speak, for how you mistook "VT" to mean "Townie" and how you accidentally said "prepared post" to mean something entirely different, and how it could somehow be plausible that when you say a bunch of remarks are all spontaneous, off-the-cuff reactions, the post that they're in could still be something that the author "thought long and hard before posting." Yet you can't make sense of the simple and basic truth that your posts rule you out as a Cop who would turn in a check on me. It is baffling. | ||
n00bKing
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On July 30 2015 01:29 disformation wrote: Not sure why MoosyDoosy singled me out like this when like half the players have a list very similar to mine. Like Damdred just posted his version 1 page ago. Pocketing/Buddying attempt? Prolly getting paranoid. Getting less sure about Breshke and Sulfurus. Is it NocturneMage and 1 of n00bKIng or MoosyDoosy? How would it be possible for me to be Scum, disformation? How can that reality exist, given the way that the game has played out? Are you just going to plaster a big "WIFOM" sticker over every single instance where I've done something that is detrimental to the Scum win condition? I knew Ticktock had to be Town because he and I had been step-for-step so much of the way, and there's NO chance that a Scum Ticktock plays against his own agenda so many times, in so many ways. There isn't enough WIFOM in the world to explain away all the things that he did (and I've done) that would have brought the Mafia closer to defeat, if either of us were on the team. I would really like to hear someone explain why, if I were Mafia, I would continuously be putting the dagger in my own heart. Is there even any theory at all for how that's possible, that can't simply be summarized as "WIFOM" and nothing more? | ||
n00bKing
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On July 30 2015 01:54 Rels wrote: Didn't think I said it was town indicative. Reading a few filters ... no I didn't. The implication is clear, from you saying that the people switching from Scott when he claimed are Town. Would you like to backtrack and self-contradict on this, too? On July 30 2015 01:54 Rels wrote:LOL you're not reading the posts you're quoting. Are you reading any posts at all? Except for a short moment of clarity, when you understood that all of your arguments against me were hollow and empty, you have generally shown no awareness of what is going on in the game, whatsoever. Here was that moment: Rels wrote: I wrote a big post saying how he was mafia for a tons of reasons, and when I reread it before posting I realize most of it was nonsense. I'm pretty happy I did not post it. I mean, read his last posts. He got progressively angry and started using majs. Mafia are usually calmer than that. Note that you thinking "Maybe n00bKing is the Cop" does not even BEGIN to explain that post. There were many, many ways for you to know that most of what you had typed up was "nonsense." None of them had anything to do with the possibility of me being Cop. Do not lie to me again, and try to tell me that the only reason you completely backed off of your suspicions of me, was that you thought I might be the Cop. On July 30 2015 00:37 Rels wrote: So you and rayn doubting scott's claim is good. But you wanna know why this if false ? Here is rayn final answer to the situation: Here is yours: That is not comparing apples to apples. You are distorting reality, to try and force it to fit your bias. You mentioned that I said Scott's claim was "illogical" and you said "WTF." That means you're indicating that the claim was not illogical. So I showed you 3 posts from rayn where it is clear that he understands Scott's claim is ILLOGICAL. So argue with both of us, and not just me, or shut up about it already. You can't say "WTF" to me calling it illogical without saying "WTF" about him. The fact that I would have saved Ticktock over the illogical claim and rayn would lynch Ticktock over the illogical claim is (as I said) not remotely an apples to apples comparison. rayn is comparing the illogical claim to his TOP Scum read, Ticktock. I am comparing the illogical claim to my extremely strong TOWN read, Ticktock. And even though Ticktock had been rayn's #1 Scum read all day before the claim, it STILL took a while for him to decide to not lynch Scott. That shows you just how illogical the claim is. You completely ignored the part of my post where I corrected you, and said that Breshke could also be the real Cop. Why did you lie and say that only NocturneMage could be the real Cop, and then sweep the true and correct situation under the rug? I continue to provide good information for the Town to use, and you continue to obstruct it. On July 30 2015 01:54 Rels wrote: This is soooo false. scott if he lives is confirmed town, so he has to be shot or be a confirmed town in LYLO. TT if he lives ... is still suspicious and can be lynched. You are soooo bad at thinking. Ticktock if he lives is "still suspicious?" Ticktock was NEVER suspicious. And he's much more likely to be an asset to the Town than Scott is. There is no question that if I were Scum, I would rather see Ticktock lynched there than Scott. Not only because Ticktock is more dangerous as a player, but also because if Ticktock flips Town, then the fact that he and I shared one mind this game is Town-indicative for ME. If I'm Scum, I can't WAIT for Ticktock to be lynched. Not to mention the fact that Scott was NEVER who I was trying to lynch at EoD in the first place. Did you forget that too? Or is that just something else you DIDN'T READ? I specifically said I wasn't comfortable lynching Scott without a counterclaim, and listed off the players that I would rather lynch instead. Would I still lynch him before Ticktock, though? Hell yes. Because Ticktock can't be helping me attack the Mafia at every turn, and himself be Mafia. Mafia does not play against their own win condition that often and that long. He could only be Town, sure as I can only be Town. Scott did NOT have to be Town, because his claim was illogical. | ||
n00bKing
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On July 30 2015 01:58 ruXxar wrote: No one is getting your explanation about rels n00bking, so how about you explain it again. I'm sure you're wrong. I bet the hosts get my explanation just fine. I bet everyone in Obs gets my explanation just fine. I bet there are other players in the game right now who will get my explanation just fine, and just haven't seen it yet. Or who get it just fine, and simply haven't said so, because they would rather talk about other things. Far as I know, you and Rels are the only people on Earth who don't get it. On July 30 2015 01:58 ruXxar wrote: 1) If you are scum, and know there is a cop in the game you can be very confident that you will not be checked by rels. OBVIOUSLY. On July 30 2015 01:58 ruXxar wrote:- Why? Give a clear answer. Because his suggestions to the Cop included only ONE name, and I was that name. This is common sense, ruXxar. You asked me earlier to talk to you like you were 5. If you were 5, I still expect you to understand why Rels the Cop has a 0% chance of turning in a check on me in Night 1. 0.00% On July 30 2015 01:58 ruXxar wrote:2) There is a very low chance that rels is cop. That is not what I said. I can't even count the number of times that you and Rels have now tried to tell me I said something that I absolutely, positively never said. The strongest verbiage I would have ever used is "unlikely." Nothing anywhere near the ballpark of very low. And as I have reminded you of twice (and even went and found the post for you about it!) I went OUT OF MY WAY to make sure it was clear that I was saying Rels could ABSOLUTELY still be the Cop, in any scenario where I am not Scum. (I knew better, but I made sure they would have no idea as to why that might be.) On July 30 2015 01:58 ruXxar wrote:These are the answers you gave to these questions so far, and they don't explain anything: 1) This doesn't explain why it's stupid. Sure it does. That explains everything fully and perfectly. Whoever wrote that explanation has common sense, and is using it (which is all that is needed here). On July 30 2015 01:58 ruXxar wrote: Also rels still got role-blocked, so someone must've believed he was the cop. WHY? Yes, it is *possible* that the Mafia thought Rels might be the Cop, even though I had reason to believe otherwise. They can't be sure that Rels the Cop does not exist, they can only be sure that Rels the Cop would not turn in a check on n00bKing. Nothing else. But them roleblocking him does not ensure that they believed he was the Cop. And we've already covered the alternative explanation ad nauseam. On July 30 2015 01:58 ruXxar wrote:2) No explanation of why it's a low chance that he's cop. You didn't explain why there is a low chance he's cop BECAUSE it's damaging to town. Again, low chance is not what I said. But yes, I did not explain why he was unlikely to be the Cop because the explanation would be damaging to the Town. If I explain why I believe that Rels ain't no power role in this game, then the Mafia can look at my reasoning and be like "Yeah, that adds up. He's probably right, Rels ain't no power role in this game." That's NOT information I want them to have. So I can't (and didn't) go into the details. | ||
n00bKing
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On July 30 2015 01:59 Rels wrote: Even if you believe I'm lying, you understand what I'm saying : that I used prepared post for post that is prepared before posting, etc. Let me clarify yet again. I don't just believe/think/suspect that you're lying. You lied. And your retcon is dumb. It never made sense. It never will make sense. On July 30 2015 01:59 Rels wrote:In your situation, I am cop. I said I would check you. I didn't check you. As naturally you would not. Common sense. | ||
n00bKing
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On July 30 2015 03:02 Rels wrote: So you misrepresentated my position. Nope. I repeat, "the implication is clear." On July 30 2015 03:02 Rels wrote:I wrote a shit case. A few points were good though, but they were all explaind by you being cop. Yes I completely backed off my suspicions of you 'cause I thought you were cop I don't believe you. I think you knew that there were other reasons (besides the possibility I could be Cop) to believe I am Town, and you just don't want to admit it anymore, because it hurts your chances of getting the lynch you've decided you want. And this, after I SPECIFICALLY asked you not to lie to me about it. My feelings are hurt. On July 30 2015 03:02 Rels wrote: Breshke posted this 25 minutes before deadline: Hadn't ever seen that post before. Looks like it came in seconds before my WoT about why Ticktock has to be Town. So once my post went up, his got pushed off the top of my screen. So I'm not sure who said the only people that can counterclaim Scott are Mage and Breshke, and am not sure when they said it. But I just assumed that was true, as I haven't re-read Breshke yet. Apparently Mage is the only possible Cop if Scott is fakeclaiming. I find it funny that in your entire diatribe, the ONE and only thing you were right about, is the one thing you failed to respond to. And I had to bring it back up again myself, in order that it could be shown that I was wrong. I guess that doesn't sound like anything a Mafia player would do, huh? But anyway, it seems that I was mistaken about Breshke being a possible counterclaim for Mage, so I will withdraw that statement. Because see, this is what a TOWN player does when they turn out to be mistaken about something. As opposed to covering it up with a lie, and then standing by that lie for the entire rest of the game, like someone else we know. | ||
n00bKing
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On July 30 2015 03:42 ruXxar wrote: This is not an explanation. Of course it is. You don't have to like an explanation for it to be one. You don't have common sense? Okay. But the fact remains: 0.00% chance that Rels the Cop turns in a check on me. I'm not going to discuss this anymore. There is no chance in hell that check was ever going to happen, after what he posted. And no chance in hell that I (as Scum) could possibly fear it was going to happen, after what he posted. Rels being roleblocked is potent proof that I am Town. On July 30 2015 03:42 ruXxar wrote:We already have our 2 power role claims. Unless you are EXACTLY the cop, there is no reason you can't tell us. I was speaking of that moment. I can't (and didn't) go into the details at that moment. As for "already have our 2 claims"...what's the matter, ruXxar? Are you scum, and know that Scott is the Cop? And won't be counterclaimed by NocturneMage because he is your scumbuddy? Because that seems to me to be THE ONLY way for you to know that we don't have any more roleclaims coming. Additionally, I am STRONGLY reminded of this post: Am I here to train you in the strategies that I use to identify power roles, which enabled me to determine that Rels wasn't one? I would somehow have incentive to try and teach you what I know, after you mocked me the last time I tried to help you learn something? It's not like you and Rels are displaying any capacity to absorb knowledge anyway. Go ahead, ask me again, what methodology I used to rule out Rels as a power role. | ||
n00bKing
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I...don't...believe...you. | ||
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On July 30 2015 04:15 ruXxar wrote: That's fine, I'll never town-read you until you manage to explain it to me. Put yourself in my shoes. Why in the hell would I explain anything else to you, ever again? I've explained things and explained things, and explained things, and nothing ever penetrates. You just come back (EVERY time) with "Durrrr....I still don't understand!" So this is just another thing that I could explain until I'm blue in the face, and you'll either (by some miracle) still not get it, if you're Town, or pretend to not get it, if you're Scum. Moosy had the right attitude toward you all along. I'm ashamed that it took me longer to figure it out than it did for him. Remember when I said I wanted you to play in my 4th Newbie game, so my mind could be blown by the notion that someone who plays like you do could be listed as a "veteran" player? I changed my mind. Please do not participate in my 4th Newbie game. And Dear Mafia, Remember how I asked you to not kill me on Night 1, because it was my birthday? I changed my mind about that too. PLEASE kill me on Night 2. | ||
n00bKing
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On July 30 2015 04:26 ruXxar wrote: I asked the thread for ANYONE else to explain why what you said makes sense. NO ONE spoke up. Firstly, under no circumstances can that be my fault, instead of their fault. Complain to them, not to me. Secondly, maybe they also realized that trying to explain something to you is an exercise in futility. | ||
n00bKing
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On July 30 2015 04:27 MoosyDoosy wrote: ^ lol thanks for realizing n00bKing. At a certain point ruXxar will refuse to listen and everything you do just becomes confirmation bias. If there was ever a king of tunneling, that person was toppled the moment that ruXxar entered TL Mafia. And then of course ruXxar gets confused when I start saying stuff like "I'm Mafia please kill me". It just gets tiring after you slam yourself into a brick wall and get nothing in return. So much to the extent that it's much more preferable to just get lynched and not put a proper effort into defending yourself as it'll amount to nothing in the end. Amen. | ||
n00bKing
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On July 30 2015 04:31 raynpelikoneet wrote: he is obviously a smart guy. he is not playing smart. i cant explain it better. Oh, I was playing plenty smart. And while your Day 2 lynch target was godawfully wrong, I still bet mine (Sulfurus) was right on the money. And if you want to switch your lynch target to me, you'll still be godawfully wrong. And for the SAME (incredibly strong) reasons, too, which will be the most embarrassing part. You placed me in "totes Townpile" which you said was even better than Townpile! Then said you couldn't understand how anyone could scumread me. And then eventually you decided that maybe you had an association case for me and Ticktock. Yes, yes! Ticktock and n00b, that's the team! And then he flipped...Town. "n00bKing is Town, Town, Town, TOWN, Town!" "n00bKing is Scum with Ticktock!" [Ticktock flips Town] "Screw it, n00bKing is still Scum anyway!" Okay. | ||
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On July 30 2015 04:32 raynpelikoneet wrote: the town case on TT 10mins before the deadline explains it. all the day he has been talking about making a big town case. He makes it when it does not matter any more. lol, jesus, are there ANY players in this game that are NOT willing to tell blatant lies just to try and make their (mistaken) point? It was NOT 10 minutes before the deadline, it was 25 minutes before the deadline. Which was more than adequate, as nearly everyone was here to read it, digest it, and make a judgment. And the reason I hadn't done it earlier is because until that point, it didn't look like it would be necessary! Scott had a runaway lead in the votes when I went to lunch. Only after his claim does Ticktock get into trouble again. | ||
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On July 30 2015 04:33 raynpelikoneet wrote: also his vote was on scott (un ccd cop). figure that put. damdred you are not stupid. SO WAS YOURS. LOL | ||
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On July 30 2015 04:37 raynpelikoneet wrote: he literally does that after damdred says "we are not changing this, no mafia shenanigans"!. if you know anything about mafia, you say shit when it's relevant, you do not try to change lynches 10min before the deadline if you have a chance to do that earlier. Third time you've told the same lie. | ||
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On July 30 2015 04:40 ruXxar wrote: Exactly this. His push on rels was so bad I couldn't believe n00bking is doing this. The push on Rels is only bad if I'm Scum, and am burying Barakos. That's THE ONLY scenario where my case against Rels is something I should never, EVER be doing. Is if I'm Scum. But good news! Barakos flipped Red. And you're an idiot. | ||
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On July 30 2015 06:14 ruXxar wrote: N00bking, what do you think of this post? Not impressed. He doesn't even touch on the common sense truth that the reason we know Rels the Cop would never turn in a check on me on Night 1 is because he said that's exactly what he would do if he was the Cop, and gave no alternate suggestions. I have never seen an investigative role do something like that. I WILL never see an investigative role do something like that. If Rels is the Cop, I'm not getting checked on Night 1. PERIOD. | ||
n00bKing
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On July 30 2015 05:01 Damdred wrote: Noob can you explain who you think is scum and why real fast #1 - Scott if he's counterclaimed. #2 - Sulfurus #3 - NotcurneMage #4 - Breshke If Scott doesn't get counterclaimed, the order of 2-4 could move around some. I could re-read NocturneMage and Breshke, and figure out if either of them can jump Sulfurus. (I don't expect Breshke can though.) Mage's filter is surprisingly difficult to read, given how short it is. He keeps bringing up things that happened 50 pages ago that I haven't thought about in 3 days. If he's Scum, I'd say he's actually playing...good? Maybe? Because when I read posts in his filter, my eyes glaze over, and when I try to determine his allegiance, it makes me wish I was doing something else instead. But no, I can't get reasoning out right now, as it continues to be a busy week at work. And I don't know that I'll feel like bothering later, given the absurdity I've had to contend with the in the thread lately. If I do, I'll have time to put out reads during Day 3, since there is no chance of me being night-killed when so many dufuses think I'm Scum. I expect to live, and I expect Scum will let dufuses live too. If I die tonight.... Hallelujah! | ||
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He never said he doesn't get that point. He just doesn't touch on it. Maybe he thought that part didn't need to be mentioned. You know...because it's common sense. On July 30 2015 07:02 ruXxar wrote:What did you think of this part? Did you in fact warn moosy that scott was cop? Gee, I guess I shouldn't talk about that, huh? Did you forget AGAIN that only Scum could be sure there won't be another Cop claim? If you want to claim Scum, there are easier ways to do it. | ||
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On July 30 2015 07:15 ruXxar wrote: I asked him to SPECIFICIALLY to explain your statement on rels, so that we plebs could understand. And he failed HARD. The fact that you don't scum-read him for that beyondworldly horrible post is confirming you as his mafia buddy. You don't even know what he's saying in that post. But don't worry, if you want to scumread him for it, he'll probably oblige you himself. Back to work. Later, fools! | ||
n00bKing
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On July 30 2015 07:51 disformation wrote: How would it be possible for me to be Scum, disformation? How can that reality exist, given the way that the game has played out? Are you just going to plaster a big "WIFOM" sticker over every single instance where I've done something that is detrimental to the Scum win condition? I knew Ticktock had to be Town because he and I had been step-for-step so much of the way, and there's NO chance that a Scum Ticktock plays against his own agenda so many times, in so many ways. There isn't enough WIFOM in the world to explain away all the things that he did (and I've done) that would have brought the Mafia closer to defeat, if either of us were on the team. I would really like to hear someone explain why, if I were Mafia, I would continuously be putting the dagger in my own heart. Is there even any theory at all for how that's possible, that can't simply be summarized as "WIFOM" and nothing more? This post has 0 content. Of course it is possible for him to be scum. I could be scum, too. Damdred could be scum.[/quote] Your reply has 0 content. Can you reason out a way (any way) that it is rational for me to be Scum here, or can nothing explain it but "cuz WIFOM?" I'll ask again after I post the Town Case on n00bKing. | ||
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On July 30 2015 08:10 Damdred wrote: Did anyone besides Scott claiming rb? XD Not sure. Hey Moosy, was I roleblocked? If Moosy says I was roleblocked, I'll probably believe him. | ||
n00bKing
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On July 30 2015 08:19 MoosyDoosy wrote: If anything else, you all should have lynched me off of a mistake in a post I made off the basis of TMI. Here I'll provide it to you all since ya'll be so clueless: Here we see me saying with complete confidence that we have a Vigi. I say this a couple of times as well and n00bKing is the only one who picks up on it and does this: So he's the only one who saw this while the rest of you were blind and running around like headless chicken. And you're all STILL telling me you want to lynch him? right... It's Cuz WIFOM, Moosy! Just like a million zillion other things I've posted in this game that fail to further a Scum agenda, I must have done it Cuz WIFOM. | ||
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On July 30 2015 08:37 MoosyDoosy wrote: So for your simple brain to process #2: BEFORE CLAIM: - scott has likely chance of being PR AFTER CLAIM: - scott says he has green check on me - It's weird that Flexes was able to put in an action because he was inactive for more than 24 hours - scott could have been lying - n00bKing and rayn point this out AFTERWARDS: - no one counter claims -> means that scott has to be cop as weird as it may seem (With the caveat that Scott may still be counterclaimed) There are also 2 more elements to it, but I still shouldn't comment on them. MoosyDoosy wrote: However, note that there's a very simple explanation for it all. Before night time ended, Flexes comes back into the game after being inactive, hurriedly told host that he couldn't play, asked for a replacement, and inserted an action before leaving. Sure. Not hard to understand HOW it could happen. Just seems SO bizarre THAT it would happen. | ||
n00bKing
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On July 30 2015 08:53 ruXxar wrote: 1) you said that no one would check n00bking because he was universally town read. He out confirmed town rayn said that n00b was a good cop check. Our almost confirmed town reels said that n00b was mafia and also a good cop check. Sulfurus also called n00bking mafia. I said that n00bkung was playing weird. So you see, people did have a reason to check n00b. Okay, now put your thinking cap on. 4 of you acting suspicious of me, and/or suggesting me as a Cop check. If I roleblock Sulfurus...eliminates him as a strong mislynch candidate. Sucks for me a little, since I had expressed some suspicion of him. If I roleblock rayn...no problem! This works great! He was the strongest advocate for the Barakos lynch, and was being townread pretty widely. If I roleblock you (ruXxar)....no problem! This works great! You were already being DumbTown-read pretty widely. If I roleblock Rels...it WRECKS MY WHOLE FUCKING GAME TO THIS POINT. If I am Scum, HOW on Earth did that roleblock target get turned in?!! | ||
n00bKing
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On July 30 2015 09:08 ruXxar wrote: Except according to you(n00bking has yet to confirm that what you're saying is correct) noob already thought that Scott was cop, so why would he then say his claim is illogical? Because it was illogical. For reasons that have been explained by Moosy already. And by me. And by rayn. And we're all Town. | ||
n00bKing
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1) Post Town Case on n00bKing. I'm pretty sure this one will happen. It will be long, as you'd expect. But it will just be one post. Read it. Think about it. Make a decision. Once this is posted, I hope to never again have to say anything new about why I'm Town. And if someone says anything about me not being Town, I'll just copy & paste the appropriate counter-argument from this post. I make one post, you read one post, and then I am DONE with defending myself from dumb accusations that never had any foundation to begin with. If I feel like it, I will also: 2) Post analysis of Breshke's filter/vote history. 3) Post analysis of NocturneMage's filter/vote history. In the same manner that I already posted my complete analysis of Sulfurus a few pages back. | ||
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On July 30 2015 11:11 Breshke wrote: Also rels i don't think you should be using the fact that some people unvoted scott straight after his cop claim to make them more townie. I don't really think that logic holds up. Rels doesn't use logic. Rels is immune to logic. ruXxar posted a "TownShield" and Rels has a "LogicShield." | ||
n00bKing
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On July 30 2015 16:39 Rels wrote: They both used ad hom attacks to attack the credibility of people multiple times. Only after your pitiful "arguments" had been pummeled into the ground, and you blindly refused to acknowledge it. What are we supposed to do at that point? On July 30 2015 16:39 Rels wrote: noobking saying "I know TT is town". And? Town players say things like that ALL the time. Only Mafia players are more careful to avoid sounding certain about the things they KNOW are true. Me saying that is TOWN-indicative. On July 30 2015 16:39 Rels wrote: noobking being OK lynching un cc cop over TT. As was rayn for a time, despite having Ticktock as his TOP SCUM READ before the claim. Think about that. Ticktock was his TOP SCUM READ. And then when Scott claims Cop, the claim is SO ILLOGICAL, that rayn moved his vote to Scott. Meanwhile, Ticktock was one of my TOP TOWN READS. Of course I would not lynch him over an illogical Cop claim. On July 30 2015 16:39 Rels wrote: Moosy claiming nookbing knew about scott being cop. That's not the phrasing I read. Hey look, you're misrepresenting someone's position. Yet again. On July 30 2015 16:39 Rels wrote: noobking and Moosy both claiming that "if Rels is cop, he wouldn't check noobking", but they still didn't explain it. It's COMMON SENSE. And NO ONE besides you and ruXtard have tried to indicate they don't understand. Do you know nothing of deductive reasoning? If A, then B. If Rels the Cop says that if he were the Cop, he would check n00bKing (and offers the Cop no other suggestions) THEN Rels the Cop WILL NOT check n00bKing It's like a LAW of the universe. Like I said before, I've NEVER seen any investigative role do something like that, and I never WILL see any investigative role do something like that. Go ahead and pretend you were the Cop in this game. And pretend that during Night 1, you said that "If I was the Cop, I would check n00bKing" and that you offered no other suggestions to the Cop. Is it likely (or probable, or whatever else you want to call it) that you would then turn in a check on n00bKing? Yes or No | ||
n00bKing
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On July 30 2015 22:58 Breshke wrote: Someone said that noobking and NM are probably not a team but i dont reamember who? If I remember right, disformation said it was unlikely, and it was rayn who called it "impossible." On July 30 2015 22:58 Breshke wrote: This could just be him not keeping a straight story but I want to lynch moosy first and when he flips scum ill probably want to lynch NM over Noobking Moosy won't flip Red. But if he did, there's no way you could get Tweedledum and Tweedledee to lynch NM over me. | ||
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Because I'm Town. | ||
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On July 31 2015 02:37 ruXxar wrote: WHICH YOU ALREADY DID BY WANTING TO VOTE FOR OUR UN'CC'D COP?!! There were reasons to doubt the claim that have been clearly explained to you. And a lynched Cop is not significantly worse than an outed/neutralized Cop, for reasons that have been clearly explained to you. He's a Vanilla, Ticktock was a Vanilla. There was reason to think Scott could be Scum, there were NO reasons to think Ticktock was Scum. Lynching Ticktock was what acted against the Town's interests. | ||
n00bKing
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On July 31 2015 03:17 ruXxar wrote: Stay strong people. This is mafia's last ditch effort to save n00bking. They knew they are screwed anyway, so this is their last desperate attempt. Why do you NEVER think before you post? If Moosy is going to flip Red after the modkill, then no matter who we lynch today, you're still lynching me on Day 4. And if your Moosy/n00b theory were correct, this play by Moosy has a 0% chance of success. Zero. It's what...8/2 right now? Let's say we guess wrong with our other lynch today. 7/2. BUT Moosy flips Red in the Modkill. 7/1. Night kill makes it 6/1. If you're right, you lynch me and it's 6/0. Even if you're wrong, you lynch me and it's 5/1. Night kill makes it 4/1 and you still have ANOTHER chance after you mislynch me. If Moosy flips Red in the Modkill, there is basically NO possibility of a Scum win. How on Earth could you be foolish enough to still try to lynch me before seeing his flip, when knowing his allegiance not only tells you a ton about me, but also tells you a ton about Breshke? This is ANOTHER instance where you are displaying a Scum mentality. You haven't done anything that remotely benefitted the Town since I don't know when. | ||
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How about I DON'T talk about it, since it would be counter-productive for me to do so. (This is without even mentioning that you would just say "Durr....I still don't get it" anyway.) | ||
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On July 31 2015 03:27 ruXxar wrote: I don't like being ignored. All you've done is ignore the good arguments posted by people like Ticktock and Moosy and myself, and instead focus on your own misguided notions, blinding yourself to everything that is actually going on in the game. | ||
n00bKing
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On July 31 2015 03:40 ruXxar wrote: If you think I'm going to town read you for ignoring my questions you're misguided. Proper Town play is for me to ignore your questions. To answer them would be counterproductive. Remember how I said that already? Like I said, just because YOU are acting against the Town's interests, and just because you're asking ME to act against the Town's interests, does NOT mean I'm going to do it. I don't need to be Townread by you. There is no reason for anyone to care what you think. And will be all the less reason, if/when Moosy flips Town. | ||
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On July 31 2015 03:48 ruXxar wrote: Ok then. get lynched my friend. lol, you guys are unreal. "It's obviously n00bKing and Ticktock! Get 'em!" [Ticktock flips Town] "Errr...wait...it's obviously n00bKing and Moosy! Get 'em! Moosy GF and n00bKing RB! Ship it!" [Moosy gets himself Mod-Killed, and will flip Town] "Errr...wait...well, whatever. It's obviously n00bKing and the Easter Bunny! Get 'em!" Seriously, I cannot wait to see who you try to pair with me next, you monkey. | ||
n00bKing
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On July 31 2015 03:54 disformation wrote: I do not understand. Can you gives examples? Like I seriously don't know what information town should hide from town. Unless you know... PR and stuff. Yeah. It's about PR and stuff. I've said that repeatedly. And ruXxar has repeatedly tried to get me to say things that shouldn't be said, when not all of the power roles are known yet. Do you see that? | ||
n00bKing
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On July 31 2015 03:54 Rels wrote: My case is still the same with or without Moosy. Only point 4 is weaker but still true. I already shot down all 5 points in your "case" remember? Point 4 isn't just "weaker" Point 4 was against Moosy! Duh!!! On July 31 2015 03:54 Rels wrote:He still claimed you thought scott was cop D2, and you still ignored that completely. He quoted the posts from me that evidenced his position. What is there for me to not ignore? | ||
n00bKing
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On July 31 2015 04:00 ruXxar wrote: seems like my intelligence is steadily devolving. <.< >.> On July 31 2015 04:00 ruXxar wrote:I'm practically BEGGING you to prove me wrong. You WILL be PROVEN wrong, when Moosy flips Town. On July 31 2015 04:00 ruXxar wrote:There is nothing you can say that is so damaging to town that we will lose 100% from the current position. Absolutely nothing. There is no way you can possibly know this, when you don't know what the answer is. On July 31 2015 04:00 ruXxar wrote:So how about you answer my questions hmm? How about NO. (Note that if I were Scum and trying not to be lynched, I would not refuse to answer. I would make up an answer if I never had one in mind. But more likely, I would have always had one in mind. Only a TOWN player dares to refuse to answer here.) | ||
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On July 31 2015 04:01 Rels wrote: Then if he was right you thought scott was cop, it is nonsense you advocated lynching scott over TT. False. And Moosy and I have already explained that to you probably 4 times apiece. But you are immune to logic. | ||
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On July 30 2015 06:59 scott31337 wrote: He's been extremely defensive You acted like this was a difference from my Town game, when you played with me before. I wasn't attacked in that game like I've been attacked by Rels in this one. I can guarandamntee you that if I had been getting scumread for stupid reasons in either of my prior games here, you would have seen me every bit as defensive as I've been because of it here. And if I get scumread for stupid reasons in my future games, you will again see me every bit as defensive as I've been here. | ||
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On July 31 2015 04:12 ruXxar wrote: If moosy is town then he deserved to get lynched for siding with scum anyway. What do you mean IF Moosy is Town? You were 100% certain that he's Scum. We're putting it on your gravestone, remember? If there's only one thing you wanted to be remembered for, it's your brain-dead prediction that Moosy and I are the Scum team. Remember? On July 31 2015 04:12 ruXxar wrote:Nope, I got nothing. Well, at least some thing never change. | ||
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On July 31 2015 04:17 ruXxar wrote: If noobking was cop or vigi he should've 100000000% claimed yesterday so that we could've lunched scum scott. Rayn is confirmed veteran. There are no power roles left besides Vigi or cop. And if you're neither, then nothing you say about PRs is going to make us lose at this point. FALSE. On July 31 2015 04:17 ruXxar wrote:So how about you answer my questions? How about NO. Because I'm Town-T-Town-Town-Town, and you can't get me to make a mistake. | ||
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O. | ||
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On July 31 2015 04:27 disformation wrote: Okay. Whatevs... n00bKing remind me: who is your scum team again? Kinda really depends on whether Scott gets counterclaimed, hmm? | ||
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You didn't pack it up before we started, rux? | ||
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On July 31 2015 04:49 ruXxar wrote: What do you work with n00bking? I could tell you about what industry I work in, but you would just say that you couldn't figure out what I meant. | ||
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On July 31 2015 06:02 ruXxar wrote: 1) Do you understand how what n00bking said about rels being cop and not checking him makes sense? Seriously Damdred, at least confirm for ruXxar that what I said about how Rels wouldn't check me if he was the Cop DOES make sense. Never again should I have to hear anyone say that I could have been afraid Rels was the Cop and was going to turn in a check on me, after what Rels said during the Night Phase. At LEAST shut down that talk for good. | ||
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On July 31 2015 06:38 Damdred wrote: I don't think noob would,block rels Nominating this for understatement of the year. | ||
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There is actually at least one other direction that either of them flipped Red could lead in, besides to the other. I've posted what I feel are a lot of good reasons to think Sulfurus is Scum. After performing the NocturneMage analysis, I'll see if he might leapfrog Sulfurus, but I'm not confident that he will. Still, since there are votes on Mage and not on Sulfurus, I'll put this here for now. ##Vote: NocturneMage Town Case on n00bKing still coming today before bed. Analysis on Breshke and Mage tomorrow (as long as Ruxtard and Relstard don't infuriate me to the point where I also pull a Moosy). | ||
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On July 31 2015 08:14 disformation wrote: Well it lines up with the PoE list he posted day 1... In NSM10 I learned that not ever changing one reads even when kinda bad can be a sign for mafia. Also not wanting to change some reads may stem from the fear of appearing inconsistent. Which mafia is more afraid of than town. So yeah not liking this stuff at all... might even put Sulfurus down as my #1 scum again... This is cool and all, but you and Damdred can't lynch Mage OR Sulfurus until you convince someone that I'm Town. Like I say, I'll be doing my part with the Town Case on me. But a little help wouldn't hurt. I think my case for Sulfurus being Scum was good. I expect my case for Mage being Scum is gonna be good. But neither of them are as good as the case for me being Town. So hopefully everyone reads it, because there's a whole lot of closed-mindedness going on in the thread. | ||
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On July 31 2015 08:24 ruXxar wrote: You said rels was making up a lie to try and get nocturne lynched. Wrong. I said Rels made up a lie to cover for his self-contradiction. Didn't have anything at all to do with Mage. | ||
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On July 31 2015 08:27 disformation wrote: All right. Going to reread your filter and Rels case. Hopefully your filter loosk better than Moosy's. :p Probably might as well wait until I've posted the Town Case. Then you'll have a chance to use it in conjunction with your filter read, and see if my defense makes sense in context. (Note that this is just yet another thing I wouldn't say if I were Scum, because the defense is more likely to sound good as a standalone than with context, if none of it were true. I would only want my defense to be combined with context if it IS true.) | ||
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On July 31 2015 08:29 ruXxar wrote: You're indirectly saying that scum!rels bussed scum!nocturne based on his first post in the thread, and went as far as making up a lie to get him lynched. I don't believe that for 1 second. No. I'm not saying any of that. You just made it up. | ||
n00bKing
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On July 31 2015 08:32 ruXxar wrote: Which he made to cover a up a contradiction he made when trying to push scum on nocturne. Of course it had something to do with mage. No, it doesn't. Who he was pushing at the time is irrelevant to whether he contradicted himself, and irrelevant to whether he covered it up with a lie. But I suppose you "don't get it." | ||
n00bKing
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On July 31 2015 08:35 Damdred wrote: You are being idiotic and not seeing the scum motivation in people piling on and not trying to work the game out and just being funneled. He's doing all the same things you're asking him to see scum motivation in. So you probably can't be too surprised that he isn't opening his eyes. | ||
n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On July 31 2015 08:39 ruXxar wrote: Yes it does. Because it means that you believe scum!rels was bussing scum!nocturne day 1 as soon as he came into the game. And now you're voting for the person that your scum read was trying to bury. lol, no. It doesn't. I again wonder why you never think before you post. | ||
n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On July 31 2015 08:44 Damdred wrote: I you do that I'll push a ban on you just like I am moose. Because this is totally detrimental to town play It'll be worth it, just for the story. Moosy gets mod-killed, I get mislynched, and ruXxar gets mod-killed because I flipped Town. You'll have a story to tell for the rest of your Mafia career. "When i was a youngster, I once saw THREE Town players die in ONE Phase. And it was the DAY phase, too!" "Nuh-uh grandpa, no way." | ||
n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
Like I said, ONE post. And I expect this will be the LAST time I compose any defense of myself. It'll take some hard work for anyone to come up with a NEW justification for how I can be scum, that isn't addressed in this post. So, since this could be the LAST time you see me defending myself, please read carefully. ruXxar, Rels, Scott, Sulfurus (whomever among you is Town)...let's see what kinds of responses you can muster. And if you find portions that can't be answered to, consider what that means. #1) Barakos flipped Red The fact that I expressed willingness to lynch Barakos on several occasions during Day 1 (and then followed through with it) is not the strongest reason why him flipping Red is Town-indicative for me. The best reasons are here: + Show Spoiler + My push on Rels makes no sense at all from a Scum perspective, now that we know Barakos was Scum. If Barakos had flipped Town, then fine. Me wasting all my time chasing after Rels could serve a Scum agenda. But if Barakos and I are both Scum? It does NOT. You [ruXxar] had your vote on Moosy, Ticktock had his vote on Moosy. Sulfurus had Moosy as a scumread, and so did someone else (Breshke, maybe? Not sure right now, and not going to look it up. The important thing is that there was someone else.) The Scum play there is to go after Moosy, instead of giving him the null-to-somewhat-Town read that I did. No one else ever listed Rels as a top Scum suspect. No one else ever voted against Rels. And two players said (in no uncertain terms) that they would not be willing to participate in a lynch of Rels. But I kept at it, instead of taking down Moosy, when all the while, my scumbuddy Barakos is over there twisting in the wind? No. and here: + Show Spoiler + If I had been teamed with Barakos, I would have either: 1) Gotten Moosy lynched in Barakos' place (which looked entirely possible, based on thread sentiment). or 2) Bussed the living snot out of Barakos. Pushing on Rels does NOT maximize my chances of getting a mislynch and saving Barakos. Pushing on Rels ALSO does NOT maximize my chances of getting Town cred when Barakos flips Red. My Day 1 play makes no sense, as a teammate of Barakos. The counterargument to these points was clear enough. That I couldn't just get Moosy lynched in Barakos' place if Moosy was ALSO on my team. And I long-admitted that if Moosy were to flip Red, these points would evaporate. But I don't think Moosy is going to flip Red. And if you do, you should at least wait and see it happen before you lynch me. If the Moosy/n00bKing team is a real thing, there will be plenty of opportunity to lynch me after seeing him flip, without ever putting the game in jeopardy. Otherwise? If Moosy flips Green, then the fact that Barakos flipped Red is strong evidence for my Towniness. This applies as well: + Show Spoiler + On July 26 2015 11:28 n00bKing wrote: Which I probably wouldn't say, if I were Scum, and knew that Barakos was about to flip Red. #2) Rels was roleblocked It's been hypothesized that I could have roleblocked Rels because I was afraid that he was a Cop that was going to turn in a check on me. I find this absurd, because Rels said that if he was the Cop, he would...turn in a check on me. And he offered no other suggestions to the Cop. Have any of you ever made a post like that as the Cop, and then turned in an action that was exactly what you said you'd do? I never have. And I've never seen anyone else do it, either. And I don't expect I ever will. "Common sense" says I won't. Further, it doesn't make any sense that I would spend Day 1 and Night 1 building a case on Rels, and then roleblock him, in a setup with a guaranteed Scum roleblocker and no Town roleblocker. It would undo all of the work I'd done up to that point to try and make him look suspicious, flushing all of that work down the toilet. It would also destroy my own credibility as a scum-hunter, because I look like a donkey for having scumread him all that time, once the roleblock makes him confirmed Town. People would be less likely to listen to who I think we should lynch, because I had been so wrong about Rels. This would make it harder to get the mislynches I would need to come back from the bad start. Scum does not give up control over future lynches just for the sake of WIFOM. Rels had indicated that although roleblocking or killing him WOULD be terrible for a scum n00bKing, maybe I would have felt compelled to do it anyway, just to avoid the threat of him being a Cop that was about to get a redcheck on me. He phrased that like this: Rels wrote: I agree that if you are mafia, it's bad for you to roleblock me (or kill me). BUT if you know there is a cop in the setup, you have no choice but to do that. Bad situation but wifomable > red check. But that's just bad math. Of course there is a choice of not doing that, even IF I think there's a chance that Rels might check me, if he were to be the Cop. Roleblocking/killing Rels has a 100% chance of being bad for me if I'm Scum, because of how him becoming confirmed Town wrecks my credibility as a scum-hunter. Yes, the red check would suck MORE, but Rels becoming confirmed Town absolutely sucks. 100% chance that it sucks. Whereas, the chances of Rels being Cop were only 10%. And the chances of Rels being Cop and turning in a check on me (when that's exactly what he said he would do if he were the Cop) are even less than 10%. If I'm Scum and lost Barakos on Day 1, I cannot do something that has a 100% chance of sucking for me. That's not how to make up ground. I have to take that less than 10% chance of Rels being the Cop and redchecking me (IF I'm the roleblocker and not the Godfather. Otherwise, that less than 10% chance is 0%.) So this is not a close call. This is not a tough decision. There is NO...WAY that I would roleblock Rels. Can't afford it. Why is Rels more likely to be the Cop than other people who suggested a Cop check on me, anyway? As I've outlined, he's actually LESS likely to be Cop than other players. But he certainly isn't MORE likely. So why roleblock HIM, when that's the only roleblock target that destroys everything I've done up to that point? As mentioned earlier in the thread, there were a total of 4 players who either mentioned the idea of me being a Cop check, or mentioned me as possible scum. They were: rayn, Rels, ruXxar, and Sulfurus. I made this post: + Show Spoiler + If I roleblock Sulfurus...eliminates him as a strong mislynch candidate. Sucks for me a little, since I had expressed some suspicion of him. If I roleblock rayn...no problem! This works great! He was the strongest advocate for the Barakos lynch, and was being townread pretty widely. If I roleblock you (ruXxar)....no problem! This works great! You were already being DumbTown-read pretty widely. If I roleblock Rels...it WRECKS MY WHOLE FUCKING GAME TO THIS POINT. If I am Scum, HOW on Earth did that roleblock target get turned in?!! And none of my accusers ever made a PEEP in response to it. NOTHING. Because there's no explaining how I pick Rels as the potential Cop to roleblock, over the others. It doesn't make any sense. The roleblock on Rels is powerful evidence that I am Town. #3) Rels was not attacked Let's venture into the fantasyland where I am Scum, and I think Rels could be the Cop, and I'm afraid that he might turn in a check on me. And I'm so afraid of it that I am actually willing to kill or roleblock him, even though it wrecks everything I've done in the game up to this point. In this scenario: Why not just kill him instead of roleblocking him? If I kill him, at least I don't have to DEAL with him anymore. If I roleblock him, then I show everyone that my scumread is Town, and THEN I have to put up with him coming after me again, after I've already battled against him for who knows how many pages. And when he comes after me again, people will lend INCREASED credence to his arguments against me, because of how the roleblock increases his Town Cred. Why would I do this to myself? I signed up for a GAME, so that I could try to have FUN playing it. Do you actually think that I enjoy having to fend off Rels and his BS for Phase after Phase after Phase? Does it sound like I'm having a good time, when I'm doing that? If I were going to confirm Rels as Town on Night 1, I would have just KILLED HIM, and roleblocked one of my other Cop suspects. (or roleblocked him AND kill him, in case he was the Veteran, since I would have known there was one in the setup.) The answer to why Rels was roleblocked but not killed seems reasonably straightforward to me. The Mafia wanted him roleblocked to wreck my credibility as a scum hunter, but they wanted him ALIVE, so that Rels vs. n00bKing would continue, since that shitfight had been one of the only bright spots for them, in a game that had started off terribly for them. #4) Rayn was attacked Night 1 This has some in common with the previous point, but if I had rayn and Rels as Cop suspects who might turn in a check on me, and I was worried about it, why roleblock Rels and try to kill rayn, instead of the other way around? I just outlined the reasons to kill Rels, and now I'll outline the reasons why killing rayn would be LESS attractive. Rayn suggesting me as a potential target for the Cop was, I believe, the first and only time he expressed any reservations about me being Town, through the first cycle. It seemed to me that he was pretty confident I was Town, and that the only reason he suggested me as a check is that he didn't want to have to be paranoid about me later. Maybe he was concerned that although I generally felt Town to him, there was a chance I had been "pocketing" him. Why do I say that he seemed pretty confident I was Town? Because of posts like these: raynpelikoneet wrote: Damdred town. Noobking town. Ruxxar town. Moosy town. Dis-something guy town. Barakos mafia. raynpelikoneet wrote: n00bKing totes townpile (is better than townpile). raynpelikoneet wrote: I also don't understand how anyone can scumread n00bking tbh. So, he was paranoid enough about me that he wouldn't mind seeing a Cop check on me. But I can be reasonably certain that at least I won't have to worry about him trying to LYNCH me on Day 2. Can I say that about Rels? Definitely not. Switching the targets of the kill and roleblock would make more sense, for a scum team with me on it. But I'm not on it. INTERMISSION On July 26 2015 04:32 n00bKing wrote: Come on, yourself. For him to tell rayn why he's scumreading him explains it to everyone else, too. Optimally, he would have already explained it when he first provided the read, but apparently, a lot of people can't be bothered to do that. There's nothing wrong with trying to convince the Town at large of your case by interacting directly with your target. That's what I've been doing with Rels, right? I'm not trying to get Rels to say "Okay, you're right. That's irrefutable proof that I am scum." I expect the other players to read what I'm saying to him. Ha, I told Damdred to come on himself. BACK TO BUSINESS #5) Tried very hard to save Ticktock After having long read Ticktock as Town, I went to great lengths to try and save him from the Noose on Day 2. Since Ticktock and I had played so similarly in so many ways, if I were Scum, I would be stoked to see him lynched ASAP, because his Town flip is Town-indicative for me. But the moment where I eventually say "alright, maybe he IS scum, I guess I'm okay with this lynch" just never came. I battled against his lynch to the end, which doesn't make much sense, when he's on the veteran player list, and keeping him around long-term could bite me in the ass. At this point, ruXxar likes to say that I went TOO far defending a Town player here, expressing willingness to lynch the uncounterclaimed Cop over him. But I must remind you that I specifically said I was not comfortable lynching Scott without a counterclaim, and therefore had THREE players that I wanted to lynch over Scott. Those three players were Sulfurus, NocturneMage and Breshke. And once Ticktock flips Town, those three players were the PoE list for Moosy, and Damdred, and disformation. All of whom are likely Town. #6) Displayed utter and complete fearlessness, with regard to a Cop check Most of the accusations against me revolve around the notion that I'm the roleblocker, and was afraid of being redchecked by the Cop. I'll touch on one of the ways in which my play has been MUCH more befitting for a Godfather (who knows his checks come back Green) than a roleblocker (who knows his check would come back Red). During Night 1, Moosy asks Damdred "Damdred what's your thought on n00bKing vs Rels?" And Damdred responds with: Damdred wrote: I actually think,that noob looks a lot worse because of it. Like I'm of pretty sure rels is town and this tunnel,just makes,me,feel meh. If I'm Scum who lost Barakos on Day 1, it is really important to not have Damdred thinking I look bad. He's an experienced player, who is also being townread by most of the other players. If I'm Scum, then whatever I'm doing that Damdred says looks bad, I better shut it DOWN. Now MAYBE I could keep going with it if I'm the Godfather. And I can try to pull a Cop check on myself. But I better not overdo it, or I'll just get lynched. This is a BALLSY move for a Godfather, to keep going after Rels. But it's a suicide move if I'm the roleblocker, and am THE ONLY player in the game who returns Red on a Cop check. And I kept going with it, showing zero fear of a Cop check, and showing zero fear of taking a hit to my Townie status. Because if Rels was Scum, I knew I was the only one pursuing it. No one is going to catch him any time soon if I don't do it. Behaving this way makes sense if I'm Town. Behaving this way MIGHT be okay if I were the Godfather. It MIGHT be okay if I knew it was a Vig setup. But I CANNOT behave this way if I'm the roleblocker and know it's a Cop setup. | ||
n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
n00bKing = Town, folks. | ||
n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On July 31 2015 17:49 Rels wrote: Don't agree. Point 2 3 and 4 are garbage. Points 1 5 and 6 are strong IMO. Point 1 in particular is very strong is moosy flips green I think. 1 is stronger than 5 and 6. 3 is better than 4, I think. 3 is actually pretty good, unless someone really thinks that having a shouting match with a stranger while I'm trying to play a GAME is my idea of a good time. 2 is the strongest of them all, even over 1. I'll let you get away with not explaining why you think 3 and 4 are garbage. Why is #2 garbage? | ||
n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On July 31 2015 18:04 Rels wrote: - even if some people were suspicious of you, I was the only one to clearly state I wanted to check only you. In particular I find it hilarious that you mention rayn was suspicious of you, then in point 4 you claim rayn wasn't suspicious almost at all You being the one to state that you would check ONLY me makes you the least likely of the 4 to turn in a check on me. And I said that rayn was paranoid enough to be interested in a Cop check on me on Day 1, but not suspicious enough to want to lynch me on Day 2. That is reasonable. On July 31 2015 18:04 Rels wrote: - once again, if I was cop I would have checked you, so that less that 10% crap is wrong Maybe if you were the Cop, you would have checked me. But in that instance, you would NOT have TOLD everyone you were going to check me. Change the "less than 10%" to just "10%" and it's still a comparison between 10% and 100%. There's still nothing to really think about. I can't possibly roleblock you. Here, I'll get rid of the "less than 10%" for you: Rels had indicated that although roleblocking or killing him WOULD be terrible for a scum n00bKing, maybe I would have felt compelled to do it anyway, just to avoid the threat of him being a Cop that was about to get a redcheck on me. He phrased that like this: But that's just bad math. Of course there is a choice of not doing that, even IF I think there's a chance that Rels might check me, if he were to be the Cop. Roleblocking/killing Rels has a 100% chance of being bad for me if I'm Scum, because of how him becoming confirmed Town wrecks my credibility as a scum-hunter. Yes, the red check would suck MORE, but Rels becoming confirmed Town absolutely sucks. 100% chance that it sucks. Whereas, the chances of Rels being Cop were only 10%. If I'm Scum and lost Barakos on Day 1, I cannot do something that has a 100% chance of sucking for me. That's not how to make up ground. I have to take that 10% chance of Rels being the Cop and redchecking me (IF I'm the roleblocker and not the Godfather. Otherwise, that 10% chance is 0%.) So this is not a close call. This is not a tough decision. There is NO...WAY that I would roleblock Rels. Can't afford it. Answer to that. And answer to this: If I roleblock Sulfurus...eliminates him as a strong mislynch candidate. Sucks for me a little, since I had expressed some suspicion of him. If I roleblock rayn...no problem! This works great! He was the strongest advocate for the Barakos lynch, and was being townread pretty widely. If I roleblock you (ruXxar)....no problem! This works great! You were already being DumbTown-read pretty widely. If I roleblock Rels...it WRECKS MY WHOLE FUCKING GAME TO THIS POINT. If I am Scum, HOW on Earth did that roleblock target get turned in?!! Like I said, defending myself now is just copy & paste. | ||
n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On July 31 2015 18:19 Rels wrote: Easy. I hate these maths stuff 'cause mafia is not a math game. But your math is wrong: I have 10% chance of being the cop. If I am the cop I check you 100%. Chances of check on you: 10%. XXX has 10% chance of being the cop. If XXX is the cop he's going to check you < 100%. Chances of check on you: <10%. Maybe you hate these math stuff because you're bad at math? You have 10% chance of being the Cop. If you are the Cop you check me 100% (horseshit, actual chance is 0.00%, but we'll pretend). Chances of a bad result for me: 10% If I roleblock you, chances of a bad result for me: 100% The result of roleblocking Sulfurus is less bad. The result of roleblocking rayn or ruXxar is hardly bad at all. The only disaster, is roleblocking YOU. n00bKing wrote: If I am Scum, HOW on Earth did that roleblock target get turned in?!! | ||
n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On July 31 2015 18:22 Breshke wrote: First of all scum rb'ing rels wouldnt have known he would become confirmed town from it that only happened because rayn blocked a shot. If rayn had died and even if he hadnt been VT it could have been theorised that Rels is lieing and the person who died got roleblocked. So there goes that theory. Nope. Rels was already townread anyway. Scum could not expect people to think he was lying about the block, because if he's Scum himself, he doesn't need the Town Cred from the block. On July 31 2015 18:22 Breshke wrote: Also I know what you are saying that a cop never admits who they are going to check. Right, of course they don't. Why are you wasting time talking about something that everyone should know is common sense? | ||
n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On July 31 2015 18:25 Breshke wrote: Can you answer this. If one of Sulf or NM flips town who is mafia? blah blah blah Shouldn't you be voting for someone? | ||
n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On July 31 2015 18:32 Rels wrote: Yes but only me would realistically check you. And the 10% chances of bad result is 10% of losing the game right there. If think if you were mafia you would take the 100% bad situation over 10% game lost. I love how you just keep saying things that you can't actually believe, inside your own mind. And no, I don't think the Mafia team loses once 2/3 of its members are lynched. I think it needs to be all of them. And even if getting caught DID mean losing the game, I would HAVE to take that 10% chance over the 100% chance, when my team would already be in a hole because of the Day 1 lynch. On July 31 2015 18:32 Rels wrote: So stop shitting up the thread with this and answer my fucking request. No ruXxar Jr. It isn't time for that yet. | ||
n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On July 31 2015 18:35 Rels wrote: Seriously noobking I hate how you play. Each time you come you shit up the thread with useless posts. If you're mafia OK it's a valid technique; but I'm starting to think your town, and you gotta stop that. I'll promise you something, Rels. I promise you don't hate the way I play as much as I hate the way you play. | ||
n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On July 30 2015 09:18 n00bKing wrote: To-Do List for Day 3: 1) Post Town Case on n00bKing. 2) Post analysis of Breshke's filter/vote history. 3) Post analysis of NocturneMage's filter/vote history. In the same manner that I already posted my complete analysis of Sulfurus a few pages back. One down, two to go. Closing in on 4am here. G'nite folks! | ||
n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
Completing 2 and 3 on my To-Do list would be ridiculously difficult without filters. | ||
n00bKing
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On July 31 2015 23:29 ruXxar wrote: If n00bking really thought you are scum, and he now votes for NM, then it means that he thinks you as scum bussed your scum partner nocturne immediately when you entered the game. "Why do you never think before posting?" I haven't tried to scumread Rels at all since the roleblock went uncountered. And ever since he announced the roleblock, I said that I expected it WOULD go uncountered, because I couldn't think of a reason for him to fakeclaim the roleblock if anyone else had been roleblocked instead. The only way he can fakeclaim the roleblock is if no one was roleblocked, and that makes very little sense in a setup that has a Veteran in it. | ||
n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
I don't know how much that costs. But whatever it is, it's a lot more than the amount I care about this game. A lot of Breshke's posts tended to be made in "batches" so I'll see if I can find a couple of those batches and still do an analysis on him. Mage's posts were also sometimes in batches, but not as much as Breshke's were. Still, finding a couple of his batches could help me too. I did read the filter for each of those players before the filters went down, so I knew what my opinions were of the posts. I just need the posts to remind me of which ones made an impression, and so that I can make quotes from them. | ||
n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On July 24 2015 09:19 Breshke wrote: Barakos when you say you dislike rayn for the alibi post do you mean you just dislike it in general or you think it is scummy? If Barakos means that he thinks it is scummy, I would say that's suspicious, because the post was in fact NAI (rayn's thread entry post, that is). He *should* mean that he just dislikes it in general. This post from Breshke could be giving scum-teammate-Barakos an excuse to clarify which one he meant, before people have much opportunity to say that it is suspicious that Barakos finds rayn's NAI post to be scummy. Scum indicator. Next, all the stuff where he pushes ruXxar to give a read on me, based on my reaction to the poetry. It occurred to me that maybe ruXxar just wasn't confident in giving me a read based on that reaction, because he has all this "respect" for my game and fully expected that he wouldn't be able to glean anything from my reaction. Breshke brings this up multiple times (trying to get ruXxar to put a read on me) and then decides that he "thinks ruXxar is Scum." When really ruXxar's refusal to comment on me should be NAI, and if Breshke knows we're both Town, he could just be exploring whether or not ruXxar might be open to lynching me. Scum indicator. Moosy asks Breshke if this is his first game, and he says no, but that he's "still shit." He is later asked how many games he's played. He says 15, but that he's "still horrible." This could be planting the seeds to explain why he won't understand good defenses for Town players, and will instead continue to see them as Scum, later in the game. Scum indicator. When voting against Barakos, Breshke says it is because he doesn't believe that Barakos was using a reaction test. People said that this wasn't believable partly because Barakos didn't draw any conclusions on some of the people who reacted to it (like rayn, who reacted rather strongly). Whether or not you like Breshke's conclusion here, it shows some consistency in the methods he's using to scum hunt. Town indicator. When withdrawing his suspicion of ruXxar, he makes no explanation for why. Could be because he doesn't want to backreference the poor reasoning he'd used for the original read. HOWEVER, a Town player might ALSO not want to backreference their own poor reasoning. Scum indicator, but VERY light. Townreads Sulfurus without explanation. When pushed for an explanation, his explanation is awful. He's been pushing ruXxar and then Barakos and then Moosy, and may have realized he's not really been townreading anyone and probably should. But he townreads Sulfurus with poor reasoning, which certainly leaves open the door for Sulfurus to get lynched anyway. This townread on Sulfurus is illogical enough that I think it is best explained by someone KNOWING Sulfurus is Town, and wanting to townread him, and having to do so in the absence of any ACTUAL indicators that the player is Town. Heavy Scum indicator. Association Bonus: If Breshke flips Red, I think Sulfurus it makes Sulfurus Town, despite all of the scum-indicative things I've noted from Sulfurus I think that when he asks Sulfurus for an explanation of Sulf's scumread on me, it is slightly Town-indicative. Yes, he could be trying to get Sulfurus to say something dumb and get himself in trouble. But the line of questioning is more likely to help me than hurt Sulfurus. And Breshke should rather get me mislynched than Sulf, due to the gap in activity level. Slight Town indicator. Breshke called out Sulfurus for starting with the read on Barakos, when it was the one people would be least interested to hear about. That's exactly what I was thinking, and again, I don't think Sulfurus is the lynch Scum wanted on Day 1. However, since they would settle for practically anyone over Barakos by that point, I can label this only as Slight Town Indicator. Like Ticktock pointed out, Rels/Sulfurus/Breshke were the 3 players in prime spots for bussing Barakos. Breshke is in one of those 3 spots, in the Day 1 vote count. Scum indicator. On July 26 2015 19:49 Breshke wrote: I also like noobking even more now for his post on we should be looking for the most scummy people not the people most likely to bus because the later is stupid. That makes really good sense for him to say as Scum, when he's sitting in one of the "bussed Barakos" spots, and not one of the people who first pushed Barakos, nor one of the people who just shifted to Barakos at EoD. Scum indicator. On July 28 2015 20:40 Breshke wrote: This is awkward. He was actually "pressuring me so i would explain it more" So it was both. erm ignore i ever said that bit. #regrets Most people were not paying any attention while Moosy and Breshke talked past each other. So Breshke really only needs to sell ONE person on an excuse that makes sense, here. But he doesn't even try. Instead, he just up and withdraws half of his case against Moosy. He then says that he still believes Moosy is Scum though, even without that half of the case. This is likely to significantly amplify suspicion of him, but he takes the risk, to keep after his intended lynch target. Heavy Town indicator. As mentioned before, I hated the post where he said that he was pretty sure the roleblocker MUST turn in an action. It reeks of "Look guys, I can't be on the Mafia team! I don't even know how their roles work!" Scum indicator. This might sound weird to some people, but I think it is Town-indicative that Breshke waited so long to mention that Moosy's behavior could be indicative of a Godfather hoping to be checked. I feel like if Breshke were Scum, he would have used this weapon against Moosy sooner. Unless he just genuinely hadn't thought of it yet. Slight Town indicator. I brought this up earlier: On July 29 2015 15:25 n00bKing wrote: If Scott goes uncountered on Day 3, then Breshke's suspect list becomes: #3 - The guy you people just lynched, who flipped Town #2 - The Cop #1 - The Cop's green check Scott has still not yet been counterclaimed. And we have additional reason to think that Scott's green check is indeed a Town player. This would mean the entirety of Breshke's PoE suspect list was Town players. Would make sense, in a game where the Scum lost a teammate Day 1 and then had a failed attack on Night 1. He cannot play for another bus here, he's GOT to have mislynches. Multiple, in a row. Scum indicator. On July 30 2015 11:11 Breshke wrote: Also rels i don't think you should be using the fact that some people unvoted scott straight after his cop claim to make them more townie. I don't really think that logic holds up. Breshke was the next-to-last person to pull his vote off of Scott. So it makes sense that if Breshke is Scum, he doesn't want Town Cred going to the people who acted quickly. However, if Breshke is Town, he also doesn't want suspicion cast on those who didn't move quickly. This was a very interesting post, but I'll call it null. First post from Breshke after I post my Town Case on myself: On July 31 2015 17:48 Breshke wrote: Sulf who is mafia with noobking? This acts toward keeping me from the Noose, which wouldn't be what Scum wants. Town indicator. So, this was sloppy. And I'm sure I missed things. But anyway...I count 9 Scum indicators, and 6 Town indicators. Conclusion: Breshke remains suspicious. But I was right that I would not move him into my Top 2 lynch options today. Those continue to be Sulfurus and NocturneMage. I would not really be ready to go ahead and lynch Breshke unless a certain someone flips Red. | ||
n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
I'll start with my post about him from Night 1. n00bKing wrote: Might be a bit higher, if it didn't seem like he can't be paired with either of my highest scumreads. (Hooray for association cases!) Later posts do seem better, but some of the early posts are pretty damn unhelpful. Don't know who mentioned it, but he had a tendency early to just ask people questions about what they thought about someone else's stated opinion. These questions had predictable answers, that would probably be short and not generate much interesting discussion. Asking questions is good. But asking questions like that is bad, because they take up just as much space in your filter (so it looks like you're participating and being inquisitive) but it doesn't actually go anywhere. Happily engages in a worthless discussion about his experience in RL Mafia games, while failing to actually draw conclusions about what is going on. What I said there about association cases is still true. Why I had trouble pairing him with Rels obviously makes sense if Rels is Town. But I also had trouble pairing him with Sulfurus, and that hasn't changed. I disagree with Damdred that one of Mage/Sulfurus flipping Scum leads directly to the other. Mage flipping Scum leads to someone, and Sulfurus flipping Scum leads to someone else. I am not at all convinced that they lead to each other. Anyway, that post about Mage includes 1 light Scum indicator and 1 regular Scum indicator. No Town points. On July 26 2015 04:25 NocturneMage wrote: Also the reaction test thing makes no sense to me just reading it he holds the same standards for breshke and disformation passing that test when Breshke died more prematurely than disformation. This is a valid argument, which I don't recall anyone else using. This post also demonstrates that he actually was doing at least SOME of the looking at other games that he kept saying he was. Town indicator. On July 26 2015 04:25 NocturneMage wrote: I don't have a problem with voting Barakos, but let me wrap up looking at moosy and see whether he really is worse than Barakos. Here he sets the stage to check on things, and decide that Moosy should be the lynch instead of Barakos. (Again, Moosy was the player that Scum can try to get lynched in Barakos' place, if they don't want to let him go.) But nope, when he comes back, he decides Barakos is the scummier-looking, between the two, and that's where his vote goes. In fact, he even soft-defends Moosy on Day 1. Town indicator. NocturneMage was the final vote against Barakos. This is NOT a bussing spot in the voting order, and is probably the single biggest indicator from the entire game that Mage could be Town. rayn pointed out how awful it was for NocturneMage to make something of the fact that Flexes "had nothing about Sulfurus in his filter." Flexes had nothing about a lot of things in his filter. This has high potential to be "Too scummy for Mage to actually be Scum" but I'm still going to list it in the Scum indicator category. Alas, I must admit that Rels did something right this game. He made a post showing all of the various instances where Mage has said that he was reading-rereading things. And then he often does not formulate any new opinions after the reading he says he is going to do (and sometimes doesn't come back to post any opinions at all). If he is AFK so much that he keeps getting behind in the thread, and isn't able to post very often, where is he supposed to come up with all the time to re-read filters and read people's play from other games? Scum indicator. Mage would sometimes come back from those long absences and then talk about something that had happened many pages ago. That would be okay, if he was catching up, and had observations he wanted to share, about things that had been said earlier. But he would consistently fail to provide context, making it extremely difficult to figure out what he was talking about. Especially when he would bring up interactions that were muddied or were largely ignored to begin with. Such as, all that time when Breshke and Moosy were talking past each other. That was one of Mage's favorite things to talk about after the fact, even though it wasn't a topic that interested hardly anyone else, and then he would fail to provide quotes so that we could be reminded of the events he wanted to discuss. This shows me he didn't actually want to spark discussion, he just wanted to make posts. Heavy Scum indicator. If Mage was really doing all of the reading of other games that he said he had, how come he knows nothing of anyone's meta? He listed off 3 or 4 games that he had followed along with before this one started. And then made indications of reading some of what players did in other games AFTER this one started. And you seem him repeatedly asking other players what they think about someone's meta. "is that a meta read?" "How does that fit with that player's meta? Is that normal for that player?" but despite all of what he's PERSONALLY seen of other player's meta, he does not himself make meta-based arguments. Like, ever! Scum indicator. General lack of activity/participation fits with what you often see from newbie Scum. Yes, you sometimes see it from newbie Town as well. But for newbie Scum, there's actually incentive. Slight Scum indicator, which Damdred has adequately explained before. 7 Scum indicators, 3 Town indicators. (And only one strong Town indicator, which was the timing of his vote on Barakos). This is a significantly worse ratio than I saw with Breshke. So no, not moving Breshke up. And with no votes on Sulfurus, my vote stays right where it is. | ||
n00bKing
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On August 01 2015 03:16 ruXxar wrote: If he's town he should want to do 2 things: #1) Don't get lynched. #2) Lynch scum. And what did I do? #1) Post a Town Case on myself, so people can see why I should not be lynched. #2) Post a Scum Case on the player I'm voting against, so that we can lynch Scum instead of me. I did exactly what I should have done, even though all of the BS from Rels made me feel like I'd be happier going Moosy's route and just bailing on the game completely. The rules tell me to play to my win condition. So I fulfilled my obligations to that win condition, even though other players in this game (players who I think are SUPPOSED to be teammates of mine) have made the game impossible to enjoy. | ||
n00bKing
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On August 01 2015 03:34 n00bKing wrote: And what did I do? #1) Post a Town Case on myself, so people can see why I should not be lynched. #2) Post a Scum Case on the player I'm voting against, so that we can lynch Scum instead of me. I did exactly what I should have done, even though all of the BS from Rels made me feel like I'd be happier going Moosy's route and just bailing on the game completely. The rules tell me to play to my win condition. So I fulfilled my obligations to that win condition, even though other players in this game (players who I think are SUPPOSED to be teammates of mine) have made the game impossible to enjoy. And by the way, that Town Case that I posted on myself? Yeah, you have not made even a HALF-ASSED attempt at refuting it. So you continue to vote against me, without even TRYING to come up with any ways that it is still possible for me to be Scum. | ||
n00bKing
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Then, within relatively short order (say an hour or hour and a half), something should either happen or not happen. And either way, it tells me what we should do today. | ||
n00bKing
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What concerns? Whatever they might be, they can't be an excuse for you continuing to vote against me without trying to address the Town Case at all. That's just you being a Rels (Rels - noun - shitty teammate) | ||
n00bKing
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On August 01 2015 03:32 ruXxar wrote: Congratulations, you just moved up to my #2 scum slot after n00bking. No no no. You can't move Damdred into your Top 2. Moosy will NEVER leave your Top 2, because you're 100% sure he's Scum, remember? You'll be convinced of it til the day you die, AND beyond. That's why you wanted it on your gravestone. Remember? You will never accept the possibility of any reality where Moosy is not Scum. So don't go saying crazy things like "Damdred is Scum" when you KNOW it's Moosy! Monkey. | ||
n00bKing
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On August 01 2015 03:45 Rels wrote: Who said I have critical info? I know it wasn't me that said it. There were things that shouldn't be discussed, so I didn't discuss them. Simple. I will. As soon as you tell us what is your critical info. | ||
n00bKing
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On August 01 2015 03:58 ruXxar wrote: Look through my filter and you may or may not find questions that I repeated more than once that you refused to answer. Just because you have questions doesn't make them concerns that I can address without actually answering the questions. (And I should not answer the questions yet.) Your questions are no excuse for you to vote against me without trying to refute the Town Case on me. Is there any reason why the Town Case doesn't explain that I can't be Mafia? | ||
n00bKing
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So the answer was "no one?" No one said that I have critical info? But you won't move your vote to Scum until I reveal the critical info that NO ONE ever said I had? Nice work. You are being a TOTAL Rels right now. | ||
n00bKing
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On August 01 2015 04:04 ruXxar wrote: If you're not going to answer my questions then I have nothing more to say to you. Then you are admitting that the Case prevents me from being Mafia, and you are unable to refute it. But you keep your vote on me anyway, because you are choosing to play against the Town's win condition. Sound about right? | ||
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On August 01 2015 04:23 Damdred wrote: Just explain this and say what you think before I have to go No one switched? Explaining what I mean by it before the switch occurs and the thing either happens or doesn't happen defeats the entire purpose. | ||
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So okay, I will now play DIRECTLY against the Town's best interests. Ready? Are you watching? Hi Rels! I'd like to answer your questions now! What would you like to know? | ||
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On August 01 2015 05:45 NocturneMage wrote: Alright, can't blame people for voting me because I've been gone for ages. I get that. As for whoever didn't like what I did last day I did not like Breshke and was going through Scott and didn't like him either. Both looked bad at the time I voted. I'm caught up, fuck my work schedule lol, but I don't like noob's case either since most of it is wifom and reading through his and ruXxar's discussion he really isnt acheiving much for town. ##vote n00bKing lol, this guy. I can't believe you just did that. Hey MAGE, are you the Cop? Cuz, you know, it's kinda been the only thing worth thinking about in the last 30 pages or so. | ||
n00bKing
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On August 01 2015 05:48 Damdred wrote: How about we kill sulf today instead? I don't think so. I think Mage is our man. And I think Sulfurus IS the hero that saved me. And I think that if Mage flips Red, then during the Night Phase, I'll be able to show you that the Mage/Sulfurus association you mentioned doesn't add up, and that I have a much better explanation for who Mage's partner is. | ||
n00bKing
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On August 01 2015 05:57 ruXxar wrote: All of you people voting for nocturne instead of n00bking are going to look like ass when nocturne flips town. If nocturne flips scum you can lynch me tomorrow and I won't even be mad. If Nocturned had counterclaimed Scott and then flipped Red? I WOULD have lynched you tomorrow. Because a ruXxar/Mage team, with Mage planning to counterclaim Scott, explains your behavior throughout the entire day. As it stands, I *think* you're off the hook. But thanks for providing me with your filter, so I'll know for sure. | ||
n00bKing
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On August 01 2015 06:00 Damdred wrote: Explain now or I'm going against my gut and voting you because it's either you/sulf or mages/sulf or sulf/Breske there is no more waiting and seeing its now or never. It's Mage/Breshke, not Sulf/Breshke, and not Sulf/Mage. And like I said, over the Night Phase I can show you why Mage's partner is Breshke and not Sulfurus. If ruXxar is right (lol, first time for everything? No) and Mage flips Green you can just lynch me the next day anyway. You have the mislynches to do it with. | ||
n00bKing
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On August 01 2015 06:06 Rels wrote: So the critical info was you thought nm was cop ? What critical info? No, I didn't think NM was cop, I thought NM was Scum. I wanted to see if he would fakeclaim Cop, and had tried to get him to do so, by saying that if anyone counterclaimed Scott, he should be the #1 lynch target. But you and ruXxar wouldn't stop acting like idiots, so there was no way for me to get him to come back to the thread. That's why I needed him pushed into the vote lead, so that he would at least come back and say SOMETHING. | ||
n00bKing
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On August 01 2015 06:06 Damdred wrote: No, no we don't. You guys don't understand that moosey mid killing himself basically fucked town to an extent. Now sulf is 100% voting with his #1 scum read and no one is batting an eye. So please Ruxxor rels disinformation switch with me and let's kill sulf We still have 2 mislynches. I don't know if disformation is around, and I don't know that ruXxar would follow you onto Sulfurus anyway. If you mislynch Sulfurus today, we can still win. But we'll win faster if we lynch Mage. | ||
n00bKing
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On August 01 2015 06:23 Sulfurus wrote: Also it's not even scummy for me to be switching votes between them; I want to kill both of them and the order doesn't really matter. But more than either of us, you want to kill Moosy. But whatevs, thanks for the save, even if you didn't really mean it. | ||
n00bKing
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My parents were supposed to take me to dinner for my birthday last weekend, and it got cancelled because my mother had to go to the ER with a severe nosebleed that required cauterization. So the dinner got rescheduled to today, and they'll be picking me up before EoD. What are we doing? | ||
n00bKing
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On August 01 2015 06:44 Rels wrote: Nm is voting noobking though so noobking is still being lynched. Is this true? Ugh. I guess I would vote Sulfurus if it's for self-preservation. But I really think Mage should be the lynch. | ||
n00bKing
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##Unvote ##Vote Sulfurus | ||
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On August 01 2015 07:08 LightningStrike wrote: NocuturneMage the Mafia Godfather has been lynched! You're welcome. | ||
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On August 01 2015 07:37 Damdred wrote: Sulf is the least likely probably he fought super hard to get a nm lynch done htm. lol, no he didn't. *I* fought hard to get the NM lynch done. Does anyone really think that scum lynch goes off without my contributions? Sulfurus fought super hard to keep himself from being lynched, that's all. Read the EoD progression again. There's nothing about how the day ended that keeps Sulfurus from being Mage's partner. And in fact, the vote count TELLS us that Sulfurus is Mage's partner, because Mage let himself die rather than lynch Sulfurus. I just don't think I believe the vote count. This would mean that Mage bailed on the EoD (since that's the only way to explain how he doesn't lynch Sulf to save himself, if Sulf isn't Scum) but the association case for Mage/Sulf still has a lot of problems, as I was telling you late in Day 3 when you were trying to lynch Sulfurus and I kept saying no, lynch Mage. | ||
n00bKing
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On August 01 2015 08:30 Sulfurus wrote: Speaking for myself the EOD heavily exhausted me so I took a much needed lunch break. Look at this: + Show Spoiler + On July 31 2015 22:45 LightningStrike wrote: Day 3 Votecount n00bking (4): ruXxar, scott31337, Rels, Sulfurus NocturneMage (4): Damdred, disformation, n00bKing, Breshke Not Voting (1): NocturneMage n00bKing is set to be lynched! I appologize because the new website seemed to mess up filters and I hope it just temporary T_T This vote was taken pretty earlier in the day right after Breshke put his vote on NocturneMage and never took it off. You never do this as mafia especially in a split vote. I am going to be extremely hesitant to vote anyone who lynched NM but Breshke is basically confirmed town. Breshke never posted again after Mage returned to the thread. When Breshke puts the 4th vote on Mage, it still didn't put Mage in the Noose. I was still the lynch, as you can see there. Plus Mage's vote is still waiting in the wings. If Breshke missed EoD due to real-life reasons, that quickly explains why his vote never comes off Mage. And if you don't believe that Breshke is Scum who missed EoD, you still have to believe that Mage was Scum who missed EoD, or he would have lynched YOU. Otherwise, you have to claim Scum. You're not claiming Scum, right? | ||
n00bKing
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On August 01 2015 09:37 Breshke wrote: If he was here and noobking is town do you think he would have switched his vote to sulf? If Mage was here, he switches his vote to Sulf in ANY scenario where Sulfurus is not his partner. There's no way around it. He no-showed the deadline, or Sulfurus is his partner. Period. | ||
n00bKing
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On August 01 2015 08:31 scott31337 wrote: My heart says its ruxxar with some sickplays tinfoil. My mind says it's Breshke. And the vote count says it's Sulfurus. I agree with your mind. | ||
n00bKing
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On August 01 2015 22:36 disformation wrote: Here we either have an incredible bus by Breshke or Sulfurus (don't really think so though). I am still on Sulf because my last minute vote didn't go through. Might make me look a bit worse for trying to get last minute town cred or something. Otherwise we are left with Rels, n00bKing and ruXxar. So yeah... unless Sulfurus or Breshke set up some really sick busses D1 AND D3 we are pretty much left with n00bKing or ruXxar. Shocking. Other opinions? Did I miss something? Breshke was AFK at the end of Day 3. Read the end of Day 3. There is never a post from him after Mage returns to the thread. It's not a bus, it's an accident. Day 1 was a bus, and Breshke was one of the 3 players (Rels, Sulfurus, Breshke) that Ticktock and I have been saying for the ENTIRE game were in the prime bussing slots when Barakos goes down. And you can't be "left with n00bKing" when there seems to be a huge Town Case that explains why I'm not Scum, and when I'm the whole reason NM got lynched! Damdred was trying to push Mage earlier in the day, but he was doing it by piddlin' around with weaksauce posts like this one: Damdred wrote: 1) He really has been super side lined all game. 2) The only halfway scum read flipped mafia Barajas had was on mages and town reads on what I consider town players. And as we know new s um players have an easier time scum reading scum. 3) Super poor re entrance d2 lynch only talked about scum breshke basically. Saw you up for lynch breahje voted to lynch you right before he voted ai he couldn't of missed it voted with breahke. 4) Didn't care around lynch voted and left 5) Didn't care about night phase Is that what is supposed to qualify as a "Scum Case" on someone around here? That's pretty limp. As someone who was ALREADY scumreading NM (and had been for a while) I read Damdred's "case" on NM and said: MEH. That doesn't make me interested in lynching NM. I, on the other hand, posted arguments against NM that give people a reason to vote against him that they can understand and feel good about. And when Damdred wavered on NM and thought he might want to lynch Sulfurus instead, I kept pushing him (and everyone) back to NM as the best target. | ||
n00bKing
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On August 01 2015 22:54 disformation wrote: Uuuuh. Just got this idea while shower. This is a bit wifomy, but kinda makes sense in my head right now: Did you notice which scum role is left? roleblocker... So. Let us say n00bKing is the roleblocker. He just lost a teammate D1. His other teammate is not that active. He knows there is a vet and a cop in the game. Rels says he would check n00bKing if he is the cop. He panics and judges the danger of a potential redcheck on D2 to be higher than hitting the vet. He blocks Rels. D2 he notices he has screwed up badly and tries to invent a ploy, where he can spin this to his advantage. Dude...come ON. There WAS no danger of Rels the Cop turning in a check on me. I cannot possibly have "panicked" and thought that Rels is a Cop who would turn in a check on me, after he makes the post he did in the Night Phase. And you think my "ploy" could have been made up after the fact? If it's just something I made up on the fly, after making the "mistake" of roleblocking Rels, then why is the logic SO perfect? No one is lucky enough to have the RB on Rels be that Town-indicative for me, if I "notice" my "mistake" on Day 2 and then try to invent a way for it to work in my favor. Read this: + Show Spoiler + #2) Rels was roleblocked It's been hypothesized that I could have roleblocked Rels because I was afraid that he was a Cop that was going to turn in a check on me. I find this absurd, because Rels said that if he was the Cop, he would...turn in a check on me. And he offered no other suggestions to the Cop. Have any of you ever made a post like that as the Cop, and then turned in an action that was exactly what you said you'd do? I never have. And I've never seen anyone else do it, either. And I don't expect I ever will. "Common sense" says I won't. Further, it doesn't make any sense that I would spend Day 1 and Night 1 building a case on Rels, and then roleblock him, in a setup with a guaranteed Scum roleblocker and no Town roleblocker. It would undo all of the work I'd done up to that point to try and make him look suspicious, flushing all of that work down the toilet. It would also destroy my own credibility as a scum-hunter, because I look like a donkey for having scumread him all that time, once the roleblock makes him confirmed Town. People would be less likely to listen to who I think we should lynch, because I had been so wrong about Rels. This would make it harder to get the mislynches I would need to come back from the bad start. Scum does not give up control over future lynches just for the sake of WIFOM. Rels had indicated that although roleblocking or killing him WOULD be terrible for a scum n00bKing, maybe I would have felt compelled to do it anyway, just to avoid the threat of him being a Cop that was about to get a redcheck on me. He phrased that like this: Rels wrote: I agree that if you are mafia, it's bad for you to roleblock me (or kill me). BUT if you know there is a cop in the setup, you have no choice but to do that. Bad situation but wifomable > red check. But that's just bad math. Of course there is a choice of not doing that, even IF I think there's a chance that Rels might check me, if he were to be the Cop. Roleblocking/killing Rels has a 100% chance of being bad for me if I'm Scum, because of how him becoming confirmed Town wrecks my credibility as a scum-hunter. Yes, the red check would suck MORE, but Rels becoming confirmed Town absolutely sucks. 100% chance that it sucks. Whereas, the chances of Rels being Cop were only 10%. And the chances of Rels being Cop and turning in a check on me (when that's exactly what he said he would do if he were the Cop) are even less than 10%. If I'm Scum and lost Barakos on Day 1, I cannot do something that has a 100% chance of sucking for me. That's not how to make up ground. I have to take that less than 10% chance of Rels being the Cop and redchecking me (IF I'm the roleblocker and not the Godfather. Otherwise, that less than 10% chance is 0%.) So this is not a close call. This is not a tough decision. There is NO...WAY that I would roleblock Rels. Can't afford it. Why is Rels more likely to be the Cop than other people who suggested a Cop check on me, anyway? As I've outlined, he's actually LESS likely to be Cop than other players. But he certainly isn't MORE likely. So why roleblock HIM, when that's the only roleblock target that destroys everything I've done up to that point? As mentioned earlier in the thread, there were a total of 4 players who either mentioned the idea of me being a Cop check, or mentioned me as possible scum. They were: rayn, Rels, ruXxar, and Sulfurus. I made this post: + Show Spoiler + If I roleblock Sulfurus...eliminates him as a strong mislynch candidate. Sucks for me a little, since I had expressed some suspicion of him. If I roleblock rayn...no problem! This works great! He was the strongest advocate for the Barakos lynch, and was being townread pretty widely. If I roleblock you (ruXxar)....no problem! This works great! You were already being DumbTown-read pretty widely. If I roleblock Rels...it WRECKS MY WHOLE FUCKING GAME TO THIS POINT. If I am Scum, HOW on Earth did that roleblock target get turned in?!! And none of my accusers ever made a PEEP in response to it. NOTHING. Because there's no explaining how I pick Rels as the potential Cop to roleblock, over the others. It doesn't make any sense. The roleblock on Rels is powerful evidence that I am Town. And I'll say again: When it comes to "evidence" that you have to THINK about, instead of just "proof" that comes directly from the game mechanics, Point #2 is some of the most compelling evidence of a player being Town that you'll ever see in one of these games. Point #1 was also strengthened (to the point where it becomes too much to ignore) when Moosy did indeed flip Town. Barakos flipped Red, Moosy flipped Green. There is NO way to explain my Day 1 play if I'm Scum. And we can add Point #7, which is all the work I put in to get Mage lynched on Day 3. | ||
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On August 01 2015 23:09 disformation wrote: also: why is n00bKing voting for the hero who saved him? He stopped saving me, and moved his vote TO me. I had specifically said that the only way I would vote Sulfurus was for self-preservation. And that otherwise, I thought Mage was our guy. And then Sulfurus tried to kill me. I was in the vote lead, and I moved for self-preservation, just as I had said I would. | ||
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On August 01 2015 23:15 Damdred wrote: The only thing I could say there is that noob is trying to save himself which is nai, however it is a fair point that noob shows 0 confussion paranoia etc when he flips onto mages. When who flips onto Mage? What do you mean? | ||
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On August 01 2015 23:20 ruXxar wrote: Btw if I'm mafia here I just concede, there's no fucking way for me to win from this position if I'm mafia. lol, and if I'm mafia here I would have conceded at the end of Day 1. I didn't sign up to play from the Mafia side of a 10/2 setup. No thanks. | ||
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On August 02 2015 02:55 Rels wrote: On thing I see from looking at this vote recaps is that NM piled on Sulfurus D2, so another townie point to Sulfu. In day 1 NocturneMage waited until the very last moment to bus; I can't imagine him bussing Sulfurus so early when there are already one mafia down AND he didn't bus Barakos early. Correct. This is part of the reason why I said Damdred's Mage/Sulfurus team didn't make sense to me. There are other reasons as well, to be skeptical of that combination. | ||
n00bKing
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On August 02 2015 03:11 Damdred wrote: So yeah so much for noob helping us solve the game here I gues? What are you talking about? I told you the scum team on Day 3, before Mage ever flipped. And whaddya know? He flipped Red, just like I said. | ||
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On August 02 2015 03:42 Damdred wrote: You know noob you are really going about this the wrong way, literally youa re attacking every person whos somewhat trying to figure the game out. I don't know what you mean. I'm posting all of the observations about how the Day played out. The ones that support my intended lynch target, AND the ones that don't. I'm presenting all of the evidence as it actually stands, and not just the evidence that motivates people to lynch the player I think they should. And you're complaining? | ||
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On August 02 2015 04:07 Damdred wrote: he moved to save himself now, why would mafia sulf then move back to his partner instead of staying on you after I said hey lets get back on mages and sulf, myself scott moved back and killed mages. No shit, how many times do I have to say that I don't think Sulfurus is Mage's partner? And how LONG have I been saying that? I've been saying that since Night ONE. | ||
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On August 02 2015 04:10 Rels wrote: You are saying the reason Sulfurus voted you was NOT self preservation ? No? | ||
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On August 02 2015 04:18 Damdred wrote: Btw did you scum read nm d2? or when did you decide that? When did I begin scum reading NM, or when did I decide that Breshke was his partner? I began scumreading NM during Night 1. I didn't decide Breshke was his partner until late in Day 3, after seeing how Mage responded to having the vote lead, and answered my question of whether he was the Cop or not. Damdred wrote:If I die during th enight for some reason, make sur enoob answers the questions that were posted. Maybe you should make you that YOU answer the questions that were posed to YOU. | ||
n00bKing
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On August 02 2015 06:14 scott31337 wrote: Looks really bad for n00b here - d1 after Rels votes and Barakos is probably toast they go for the phat bus. We know now mafia NM bussed here. That's not a bus. That's just him tacking on at the end of a lynch that is already decided. Breshke is in a bussing spot. NM was not. Like I said, this was the one and only STRONG Town indicator for Mage. But it was outweighed by the numerous Scum indicators. On August 02 2015 06:14 scott31337 wrote:D2 he knows TT is town and is toast so he doesn't vote for him and tosses his vote so he doesn't look as bad. NM afk votes me (wasted vote too) Don't sign up if you're not even going to try to play. To say that I "didn't vote for him" is a gross understatement. I worked very hard to defend him, and it was WORKING. Don't give me that crap about knowing he was toast. Votes didn't go back onto Ticktock until after you claim. Until that moment, I had successfully saved him. And I had been townreading Ticktock before that Phase ever even STARTED. "Knew he was toast so he didn't vote for him." That's such bullshit. I had been declaring Ticktock a townread before you ever even came into the game. On August 02 2015 06:14 scott31337 wrote:D3 NM wagon probably pure as fuck A wagon that I drove, and that doesn't go anywhere without my arguments. Because we sure know Damdred's posts on the subject were not interesting. He couldn't even convince HIMSELF that Mage was the correct lynch at EoD without my insistence. | ||
n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
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n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On August 02 2015 07:18 Damdred wrote: Hes probably just given up or decided to no shoot and spread dissent on rels or myself (which was what he was doing) and forgot to role block it happens. uhhh, nope. I've been a role with night actions in over a dozen games. Never once forgotten to turn my action in. | ||
n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On August 02 2015 07:39 ruXxar wrote: The mechanical play is to lynch you, then lynch scott if you are town. Do you agree? Makes sense to me. | ||
n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On August 04 2015 08:10 geript wrote: Somewhere around here, Ruxxar got into a big fight with n00bKing and MoosyDoosy stepped in to townshield his read. There's nothing wrong with any of this. However, how n00bKing approached the situation was not how a towny would whatsoever. He didn't want to really explain things and the explanations he gave were really piss poor. I mentally checked out of this game after Barakos left us high and dry on Day 1. I have never had a Mafia teammate just completely bail on a game like that, and it instantly killed about 85% of my motivation. At some point, Rels said something about how only NocturneMage could still counterclaim Scott. And I said no, Breshke could too, because he was afk at the end of Day 2 as well. And Rels pointed out that actually, Breshke had been around, and had made multiple posts at the end of Day 2. That's when people should have realized I wasn't reading the thread. By Day 2, I was not paying attention to any posts that didn't have my name in them. If you weren't talking TO me or ABOUT me, your post is getting skipped. lol I also kept waiting to get caught on BS I was talking about the meta of other players from other games. I especially talked a lot about how I had just gone and re-read Sulfurus' filter from this game or that game, and noticed this difference or that difference. None of that re-reading actually happened, I was just making things up, from a combination of memory and whatever I wanted people to think at the time. So I'm sure you're right that my posts didn't match for how a Townie would be thinking. But...I wasn't thinking. I was just typing whatever came to mind. Especially once the filters disappeared. If Barakos killed 85% of my motivation, losing the filters killed the other 15%. I would have actually gone through with making a scum case on Breshke, showing the association case that makes him Mage's teammate, but...not without the filters. I just typed a couple of things I could remember, found a quote or two, and that's it. Damdred kept saying he could tell that I didn't care whether I was lynched, and that he thought it was a Town mindset. He was absolutely correct that I didn't care whether I was lynched, it just wasn't for the reasons he imagined. On August 04 2015 08:10 geript wrote: D3 had a bunch of random things happen; not all of which I remember. But n00bking made a major mistake by not being on the nocturnemage wagon or not securing the sulfurous lynch. I did my part to secure the Sulfurus lynch. It was Mage's job to move to Sulfurus and make it 6-2 against Sulf, so that even 2 vote switches wouldn't save him. Since Mage didn't move, 2 vote switches would do it. But I didn't leave until :59 went to :00 on my laptop, and NEITHER of those vote switches had happened. So I leave for my birthday dinner, come back 4 hours later, and see that like 5 more posts were made after the time my laptop read :00. But they are all timestamped :59 so they counted, and they included the 2 vote switches that saved Sulfurus after I left (though again, it would have taken 3 vote switches in that final minute, if Mage had moved to Sulfurus for self-preservation). On August 04 2015 08:10 geript wrote: Regarding N3. So mafia chose to roleblock himself and apparently forgot that the rules stated that KP was hand delivered. Noooooooo. The rules do NOT say that. The rules don't actually say one way or the other. But this is a copy & paste of the ruleset from Newbie XII, where we had it specifically clarified that the KP is factional, and not delivered by an individual. If you look toward the end of the Scum thread for this game, you'll find the discussion between myself, GB and LS on this topic, and where I discover the reason why this setup is supposed to use factional KP. The Mafia is forced to attack every Night in this setup, they aren't allowed to withhold the KP, and that's to prevent a scenario where the Town keeps No Lynching and the Mafia keeps not attacking, and the game runs forever. But if the Mafia roleblocks the attacker, it would violate this principle and hence, the KP is supposed to be factional. That's probably why it was factional (using an identical ruleset) in Newbie XII. And I expect that if LS were to immediately run another game using this ruleset, he would edit the Rules so that they clearly state the KP is factional. LS had made one mention of choosing our attacker, earlier in the Scum QT. But I hadn't seen it (again, I checked out of the game at the end of Day 1). On August 04 2015 08:10 geript wrote: Even still, mafia should've roleblocked the cop and shot him; he'll be dead and you can claim whatever the fuck you want (although claiming the RB there is pretty dumb because it will convince no one). I agree claiming the RB is dumb. So there is no reason to roleblock the Cop, since that is indeed who I chose to kill. There is no reason to roleblock ANY of the Town players. So I roleblocked myself for fun, because who cares? There's no one else to roleblock. I even gave my reasoning for the RB in the Scum QT. It says "cuz why not?" since there is no Town player that it does me any good to roleblock. It was never my intent to claim the block. There's just no reason not to roleblock myself, since I "know" from the previous game (which used an identical setup) that the KP is delivered factionally. When LS prevented the KP, I argued against his REASONING. But I didn't get angry about it, since...I had checked out of the game at the end of Day 1. | ||
n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On August 04 2015 09:07 ruXxar wrote: I want to also apologize if people found my play style offensive. I harbor no I'll will towards anyone for what they said or did in the game(moosy plz I love u <3) This might be my favorite post in the thread. Moosy demands your address so that he can come and murder you in your home. And you apologize and ask for forgiveness. :D | ||
n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On August 05 2015 21:52 raynpelikoneet wrote: n00bKing was mafia because he argued mafia would not roleblock Rels. Guess what, mafia DID do that, or Rels is mafia and they rb'd noone (which is basically the same thing). The question is no more did mafia do that, it's why mafia did that. There was already a conclusion, yet he ignored the thing that was 100% true and argued it is not true. You apparently never read anything I wrote on the subject. I did not ever say that the Mafia would not roleblock Rels, and from the time he claimed the roleblock I basically shut down all efforts to attempt to get him lynched, because I argued that there would be no motivation for him to fake-claim the block, and we know that they didn't kill the same person they blocked, because no one died. And with you claiming Vet, it wouldn't make any sense for them to withhold the roleblock, instead of just blocking the kill target. All I ever *actually* said is that Mafia has reason not to roleblock Rels if *I* am on the team. That's it. I never said they would avoid roleblocking Rels if the team had ANY other makeup. So either you BADLY misremember or you were just never paying any attention at all. On August 05 2015 21:52 raynpelikoneet wrote: Also noone should be arguing anything about the factional/delivered KP. Because LS literally told the scumteam the KP is delivered. If the host says so, then it is so. If you don't like it it's your problem. I think you may be literally alone on that one. This setup uses factional KP, and if this host used this setup again, he would make sure that the rules make that explicitly clear. If anyone else uses this setup again, they should also make sure that the rules make it explicitly clear that the KP is factional and NOT delivered. I have not (at any point) tried to say that the host ruined the game, with the confusion. But to say that "no one should be arguing anything" about it is just simply wrong. Arguing about it is how the correct answer in this setup (KP is factional, not delivered) was discovered, and that will prevent any misunderstandings in the future. | ||
n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On August 06 2015 01:54 raynpelikoneet wrote: I have no idea where it says "this setup used a factional KP". Still not paying attention. It doesn't clearly say that the setup uses a factional KP. That was specifically clarified, however, in the last game that used this setup. And will be specifically clarified in the rules, in any future game using this setup. Because we reasoned out why it is that the setup needs to use factional KP. If we hadn't had the discussions of whether the KP should be factional or not in this setup, it might not have been discovered why the KP is supposed to be factional. Now we know that it IS supposed to be, and we know WHY it is supposed to be, so there will be no future misunderstandings. | ||
n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On August 06 2015 01:59 raynpelikoneet wrote: Maybe i explained myself badly. You ignored the fact that actually happened and defended yourself purely based on "well you are all stupid i would never do that" when actually it is the most logical conclusion. You never went to the second most logical conclusion (still likely) that someone is trying to frame you as mafia. I can't ignore the fact that it happened and also stop trying to get Rels lynched. When I stop trying to get Rels lynched, that is proof that I'm not ignoring that it happened. What you're saying is not possible. And I see nothing logical about that second conclusion. Mafia would not roleblock Rels to frame me, because Rels being roleblocked makes me LOOK TOWN. That would be the worst frameup ever. On August 06 2015 01:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:Basically you went on the subject with "i did not do this" instead of "what does this mean". I participated in discussions where I theorized about why the Mafia team would have roleblocked Rels (or in other words, "what does this mean"). I'm not sure whether you don't remember them, or just didn't read them. I expect some of those discussions took place after you died, so that might help explain why you didn't check them out. I'll mention again that I will NOT try to say that I played well in this game. I stopped thinking through my posts after Barakos bailed on the team and set us adrift, and just typed whatever came to mind. I'm sure there were logical inconsistencies (and other flaws) in my posts, because I wasn't making sure there weren't. And I was also claiming to be doing a bunch of reading and analysis that I wasn't doing, so that would lead to other problems as well. So I'm sure I made mistakes. I just didn't make the mistakes you're talking about right here. | ||
n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
Yes there is. This ruleset uses factional KP. And that wasn't just picked at random, there is a reason why this ruleset uses factional KP. Which helps explain why it was specifically clarified during the last game that the KP is factional. And through discussion in the Scum thread, we were able to determine what that reason is. So that now, no future host will erroneously ask the Mafia to select an attacker, when there is not an attacker. On August 06 2015 03:37 raynpelikoneet wrote: I kinda feel like you are talking in circles (like you were in the game aswell). So you are saying there is no other option in the game than that you are mafia based on the Rels being roleblocked, and now you are also, at the same time, arguing against it? I don't know what you're trying to say. At no time did I ever indicate that Rels being roleblocked could make me Mafia, either in-game or post-game. Rels being roleblocked makes me look Town. Mafia would not do it to "frame me." Mafia would do it only for other reasons, which I discussed at length during the game. | ||
n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On August 06 2015 04:19 raynpelikoneet wrote: Well you were mafia.... soo.... soo....what? On August 06 2015 04:19 raynpelikoneet wrote:Alsa well played, you apparently outplayed the host with your team and coach. Good job. And now (thanks to my team and coach) no future host will repeat the same error made by this host. So you're welcome. | ||
n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On August 06 2015 04:38 raynpelikoneet wrote: If you have a reason to call out bad hosting or whatever do it after the game. I made no mention of it in this thread until after the game. In fact, I didn't even bring it up in this thread after the game either, and only corrected something that geript had said about me "forgetting" that the rules say the KP is delivered. They do not say that. On August 06 2015 04:38 raynpelikoneet wrote: Or like, if you base your actions in game-onto what YOU think the game should be like instead of what it ACTUALLY is. We're not talking about what I think. This isn't a matter of my opinion, or of someone else's opinion. Rather, as I said already: "This ruleset uses factional KP. And that wasn't just picked at random, there is a reason why this ruleset uses factional KP." And now that everyone understands that, there won't be any future misunderstandings. You're welcome. | ||
n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On August 06 2015 05:00 raynpelikoneet wrote: I hope you get what my problem here is. Your problem is based on you thinking something happened that didn't. My coach and I did not confer, and then decide that because this ruleset uses factional KP, we were going to disregard that LS had earlier mentioned something about naming an attacker. I have specifically said that I didn't notice that one post from LS in the scum thread. And that I assumed the KP was factional because it had been clarified as such in the last game using this same ruleset. So I never had the attitude of "screw you, I'm gonna do this to call attention to your bad ruling/mistake." I wasn't aware of his bad ruling/mistake, because I had mentally checked out of the game, and didn't notice his post. Only after the fact did GB, LS and myself have a discussion of how the KP is supposed to be delivered in this ruleset. And that's when I figured out the reasoning behind why the ruleset is meant to have factional KP. Make better sense now? | ||
n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On August 06 2015 05:15 raynpelikoneet wrote: People put all sort of things (even dumb) in their games because they do not think them through. If something is not clear, for future reference, ask the host about it. Not just make your own conclusions and act. Why would it occur to me to think anything was unclear? I had JUST played another game under this exact same ruleset. And during that game, how the KP is delivered was specifically asked and answered: The KP is factional. So there's no reason for me to expect that anything needs further clarification. If you want to bash me for missing one post of a 391 post thread, then go right ahead. But why I acted on the conclusions that I had at the start of the game cannot be easier to understand. | ||
n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On August 06 2015 05:34 raynpelikoneet wrote: yes i know LS made a bad call That's all I need you to say. Thanks to the after-the-fact discussions between LS, GB, and myself, I was able to uncover WHY the call was wrong. And now that the why is understood, the bad call will not be repeated. And that's all that is important at this point: making sure that everyone is on the same page, so that the problem will not recur. | ||
n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On August 06 2015 05:48 raynpelikoneet wrote: Well to be honest you all SHOULD have been on the same page... Meaning that you think we should all have been together, on the WRONG page? I meant that going forward, everyone will be on the same (RIGHT) page. Everyone will know that the KP is factional, and will know why. But I do appreciate like a dozen straight posts of you being annoying for no real reason. | ||
n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On August 06 2015 16:12 raynpelikoneet wrote: And for the record Barakos was always going to get lynched whatever he says after his set of posts. Not sure why anyone (including myself!) bothers to still talk to you, when you post things like this. You sound completely ridiculous. It would not have taken much effort from Barakos to avoid the Noose, but even if he can't shake the votes with counterarguments, he can still make waves with a blue claim. As I pointed out earlier, if he claims Vigilante or Cop, the player who has the counterclaim wasn't even here to make it. And even if he gets lynched without drawing a counterclaim (which is extraordinarily unlikely) then simply by participating in the game, it affords Mage and myself opportunity to disassociate from him. Opportunity that we never had, when we had no way of knowing he had just up and quit the game. Barakos' early posts aren't what made him a liability, his refusal to play the game is what made him a liability. | ||
n00bKing
United States1202 Posts
On August 06 2015 16:53 raynpelikoneet wrote: n00bKing shot himself in the foot because he somehow thought what he thinks is more true than what the host says. It's not an issue if the rules make sense or not. It has nothing to do with it. It is that the rules were clear, and he went against them because he thought they do not make sense. But that's irrelevant. The rules were clear. Period. Still no. It was just ONE page ago that I corrected you, and pointed out that none of this happened. You're just making shit up, and you continue to do it, after I already told you that you're wrong. Night 1 Mage is talking about the plan for that Phase, and asks me "who delivers the kill?" But before I even get there to say anything, he catches himself. And tells me that I can ignore that post, saying "I forgot, KP appears to be factional." I also KNEW the KP was factional, because I had just played another game using this same ruleset, and it was specifically clarified during that game that the KP is factional. So it is perfectly natural for me to continue to assume that the KP is factional, since the rules say nothing to the contrary. "The rules were clear?" No, the rules were not clear. If the rules were clear, LS would not have erroneously thought that the ruleset used delivered KP, when it DOESN'T. The solitary indication from LS that he thinks the ruleset uses delivered KP is this: "You can post your night actions here with the following: ##Kill x with you sending someone if you don't choose someone I will rng it. ##Roleblock x" That's it. That is anything but a loud & clear declaration that the ruleset does not use factional KP (and again, we know that it does). And since (as I already explained to you) I never saw that post, I have no reason at all to think that the ruleset will not continue to use factional KP, and every reason to think that it WILL continue to use factional KP. Never did GB or myself decide that what we thought of the rules is more important than what the host said, and never did we make a conscious decision to go against any rules, or go against anything the host had said about the rules. All that happened is the host made ONE incorrect assumption about the rules, said ONE thing that insinuates his interpretation, and that ONE thing that he said was overlooked by me. | ||
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