[M][T] The New Personality Mafia
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JudgeJudy
188 Posts
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JudgeJudy
188 Posts
You are about to enter the courtroom of Judge Judith Sheindlin. The people are real. The cases are real. The rulings are final. This is her courtroom. This is Judge Judy. Order! All rise for the Honorable Judith Sheinlin. Welcome to my court room everybody! Lets get right down to business. It's sweeps week and I will not be beaten by that joke of a show, People's Court. Each cycle individuals may bring forth various disputes that need resolving. I will review the evidence and come to a verdict. Remember all rulings are final! By the power invested in me by CBS Entertainment and their various affiliates, I will also issue an appropriate punishment, which I expect the audience to uphold. To submit an issue for trial, simply type ##Accuse Player X of Y in the thread, along with an applicable explanation. Please note that I'm a very busy and important person, so I will make the final decision whether or not your accusation is trial worthy. If I accept the case, the plaintiff and defendant will be given an opportunity to defend themselves and I will question them as needed. When you take the stand, remember whose court room you are in. I will not tolerate liars and can see right through you. If you live to be a hundred, you will never be as smart as me. On your BEST day, you're not as smart as *I* am on my WORST day. Once I have gathered the necessary information, I will come to a verdict. I will require three trusted individuals to perform day to day tasks. If you are interested in becoming a member of the court, please submit your application for the following positions. Note that if any time, I suspect you are untrustworthy, you will be immediately be removed from my court. ##Apply to be bailiff - Charged with maintaining order in my court. Bonus points if you are a sexy black man. ##Apply to be court reporter - Perform post-ruling interviews. Make sure to rub it in to the loser. ##Apply to be anger management therapist - LET ME MAKE MYSELF CLEAR. I DO NOT HAVE AN ANGER ISSUE. Parties have been sworn in, you may be seated. Court is now in session. | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
Here are my thoughts so far this game: Town JudgeJudy Null Everyone else | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
How come nobody has applied to become my bailiff yet? I really can function without him. Who is going to hand me important documents and stuff?! Cmon guys.... | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
I see through that pathetic disguise.....Judge Joe Brown. | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
New town list: JudgeJudy geript WaveOfShadow FecalFeast ObiWanShinobi Possibly town.....but an incompetent television judge KelsierSC Null Everyone else....except ruXxar, maybe. | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
On August 19 2015 07:23 ruXxar wrote: I no think ritoky scum. He play similar to his town game in gaiden and himalaya: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/488082-tl-mafia-lxxi-gaiden?user=ritoky http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/487093-mafia-in-the-himalayas?user=ritoky Mainly cuz of this. | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
On August 19 2015 12:12 Breshke wrote: I don't think ritoky actually RNG'd fidel What makes you say that? | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
On August 19 2015 12:41 Breshke wrote: I don't think so given this explanation That doesn't make sense. If you say he didn't RNG fidel, that would mean he had a reason to single out fidel. Fidel had no posts at the point where he claimed to have RNG'd him. So what would be the selection criteria? Are you saying he selected a weak player to go after or something? Your reasoning doesn't seem fluid/natural which is scummy. | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
On August 19 2015 07:45 ritoky wrote: ##Accuse fidei86 of being mafia RNG has determined it. On August 19 2015 21:49 Fidei86 wrote: I plead guilty Judgement to the plaintiff. As punishment, I am issuing a 10 hour restraining order between both parties. Until that expires, you must focus on other subjects. Next? On August 19 2015 12:50 Breshke wrote: SO YES I AM SAYING HE LIED ABOUT HOW HE RNG'D OR HE SPECIFICALLY CHOSE FIDEL. Do i have a reason why he chose fidel? No. But from what he has said i don't see how he could have rng'd him. What do you fail to understand here Well of course the "coefficient of the thread's stupidity" is made up. It's a nonsense term. What I don't understand is why your trying to analyze some nonsense term and call him a liar or conclude he is scum based off that. Seems like you were suggesting that he didn't RNG fidel as if he was doing something malicious, yet didn't offer an explanation of what his intentions were with the vote and focused on something irrelevant, regarding how the rng was performed. If anything, the biggest reason that I am worried ritoky could be mafia at the moment is the fact that he isn't commenting on much else this game aside from the rng push. It's fine to play in character, but using the character to not have to given any other opinions for the rest of the cycle is scummy. | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
Why HTS? I share most of the same reads that she has shared so far. And why did you feel it necessary to defend ritoky a few minutes in the game with a comparison to previous games? Was it just role playing or was that actually a connection you drew. To me it just seemed like you wanted people to think that you were analyzing things at a point where there wasn't anything relevant to analyze. | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
On August 19 2015 23:34 ruXxar wrote: My meta read on ritoky has never been wrong. You didn't respond to the first part :/ | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
On August 20 2015 00:24 VayneAuthority wrote: What is this? How is she trying to start a conversation by posting asinine walls of text that have nothing to do with the game? you are bad. lol walls of text? There was one flavor intro post longer than a couple lines and that is literally it. At least I've given a few opinions, unlike someone.... | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
On August 20 2015 00:41 ruXxar wrote: I'm just waiting for geript to come back and confirm before we lynch him. So you're saying geript is going to return to the thread and confirm he is mafia for all of us? That's obviously not what he meant. derp | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
On August 20 2015 01:08 Tictock wrote: I have decided you are likely town, as such I would like to ##Apply to be anger management therapist On the single condition that as your therapist I can, at my discression, beat you senseless if I deem it neccesary to further your treatment. My methods work + Show Spoiler + I know you wanted a bailiff but that job sounds boring as balls, though i do qualify as sexy... Welcome aboard! Now I regret to inform you that we are undergoing budget cuts, so from now on your are my court reporting, anger management therapy giving, bailiff. Congrats on the promotion! Now go fetch me my heart medication. On August 20 2015 03:39 ritoky wrote: Thus JJ is the closest thing to a "ritoky" I have spotted. I'm not sure if this is a compliment or an insult.......nope definitely an insult. On August 19 2015 09:40 JudgeJudy wrote: New town list: JudgeJudy geript WaveOfShadow FecalFeast ObiWanShinobi Whoa, whoa, whoa.....wait a minute. How did wave secretly infiltrate my town list?! No way. Can add HTS and Tictock, they're cool. Liked geript's post about chezinu. Put him on scummy list with Breshke, ruXxar, Wave.....probably The Shining and vayne while we're at it. | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
On August 20 2015 07:40 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Neither are you but we make do. :ooooooooo | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
On August 20 2015 07:39 WaveofShadow wrote: Obi that list isn't very good. Do you have an alternative list at least? | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
meh I've voting for wave. Every time he pops into the thread he says something useless, rather than commenting on whatever is being discussed at the time. When obi posts his list, he says its bad rather than actually providing better alternatives. Even his vote for Ruxxar came way at the beginning of the cycle and he hasn't commented on any of the weird stuff he has said since then. | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
On August 20 2015 10:06 ObiWanShinobi wrote: This is an acceptable line of attack. Join me? | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
On August 20 2015 12:23 WaveofShadow wrote: the first thing of real substance with a read he decides to post? A cop-out of a minor case on me after Obi already voted. Huh? Obi never voted for you. On August 20 2015 12:23 WaveofShadow wrote: I will admit could be bias 'cause I don't like it when people vote me for shit reasons lol I attacked you for not following up on stuff rux said later on in the thread and for not posting reads, vote for you, and then you proceed to follow up on stuff rux said later on in the thread and then posted reads. How is that not a valid reason? At least your rux post kinda makes sense after following your train of thought if he is saying what you are saying. I'm not actually sure he is calling you town there though. It's not really clear what he is saying at all to be honest. @ruX what is your read on Wave? geript read doesn't exactly bring anything new to the table and the others are kinda meh. How about reads on people like chez or Rels? Might move my vote off you in the morning now that you're willing to play the game (assuming you don't disappear for the next 24 hours) As a side note, I'm less worried about ritoky now that he is talking about other people. | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
On August 20 2015 12:46 Breshke wrote: Judge can we talk about your scumread on me? Can you explain it for me please? Is it just that you think i was trying to misrepresent ritoky about the RNG thing? On August 19 2015 12:50 Breshke wrote: SO YES I AM SAYING HE LIED ABOUT HOW HE RNG'D OR HE SPECIFICALLY CHOSE FIDEL. Do i have a reason why he chose fidel? No. But from what he has said i don't see how he could have rng'd him. Sure, you decided to discuss the topic of whether or not ritoky RNG'd his target based on some imaginary "coefficient of stupidness" or whatever it was called and concluded that he was a liar or was specifically targeting fidel. You then made little attempt to interpret your conclusions. The first point you made is meaningless by itself. Is he lying because he is mafia and using rng as a scapegoat for providing actual reads? Is he specifically targeting fidel for an easy mislynch? You don't really touch on that stuff at all. On August 19 2015 12:41 Breshke wrote: Not to say his following read on fidel is bad but I don't wanna talk about that until fidel has been around some more And then there is stuff like this. You don't comment on the actual read on fidel, but instead go after the rng discussion. Now that fidel has actually posted that giant list of reads, you still haven't talked about him and instead want to defend yourself against my suspicions or something, which doesn't equate to any scum hunting on your part. Why aren't you talking about fidel or your suspicions? | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
On August 20 2015 13:03 geript wrote: ATTENTION!!! If you aren't voting for for one of these people, then you're doing it wrong. Only people on the following list will be lynched on D1. Personally I have a preference for Rels, HtS, Chez, Yam or Kelsier. Overall, those are the strongest players and are effectively being completely useless. The fact that this list contains so many people is a major issue because that means no one cares about this game in general. Heh I wish I could take a bulldozer to half the player list. But not with this bulldozer. I don't trust him. Look at those shifty eyes. On August 20 2015 12:50 WaveofShadow wrote: In any case as I said I'm not really after you today. The gifs are annoying though. Excellent! I've got a double dose just for you. On August 20 2015 12:50 WaveofShadow wrote: Reads on Chez and Rels...I've never seen Chez play a game for reals right from the start before. No idea how to read that. Rels is barely playing, how to YOU read him? I think geript made a decent point about chezinu a bit earlier. He has fallen off the map since then, so it's tough to say more until he returns. For rels, he had a weird interaction with ticktock early on in the game. It came off unnecessarily aggressive: "I thought that was clear though maybe it's too complex for you." Which could be possibly an attempt at scum-to-scum conversation. Maybe I'm thinking too far into that though. His strong opinion on fidel is redeeming for his townyness. | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
Chez, you haven't mentioned tube at all this game, yet you just voted for him. What gives? | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
On August 20 2015 15:22 Tubesock wrote: I'll talk more about Fidei in a little bit. Did you forget about this? :/ | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
On August 20 2015 23:04 Breshke wrote: TT is town because he was trying to interpret damdreds chez talk which is a standard unquestioned town thing he does (I think it was him or maybe it was tube). So yeah Also judge I rly cbf you are saying I had to say the ritoky thing was black or white when really it's grey like it's stupid that he is claiming he rngd Fidel and people were "sleeping rng" and yes it would normally be scummy but that doesn't mean it is this game because he is being bh and just because I disagree with how he went about doesn't mean he is scum So what do you actually think about Fidel then? You said you wanted to wait until he posted more, which he clearly has by now. | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
Yeah usually to justify lynching a lurker or inactive, I prefer to at least have something I can point to that rubs me the wrong way. Of the three that you mentioned, I'd agree chezinu is probably the one I'd be most willing to kill off. That being said, if we don't have a great alternative, it wouldn't break my heart to see yamato die. | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
I just re-read Chezinu's filter and I'm satisfied enough to ##Vote Chezinu. We really should start consolidating on a couple of targets so it's not a last minute thing that comes down to the three people who happen to be around at the deadline. | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
On August 21 2015 03:36 Tubesock wrote: Granted, Chezinu hasn't done much. What do you think of how he went after Damdred or Ritoky? I liked it felt towny to me. His downsides are that he isn't continuing it, and other than knowing his 4 current townreads, no one knows if he still scums Damdred or Ritoky. How does that outweigh 2 others who are doing some majorly weird shit? I wouldn't really say he was "going after" Damdred. More like he brought up his name once in passing. For ritoky, he went after the rng push at an early point in the game. That's fine as an opening discussion point I suppose, but nothing I'd give him town credit for. It's not like mafia can't talk about that just as easily. On August 19 2015 08:40 Chezinu wrote: Trying to find scum would be a better option. On August 19 2015 08:40 Chezinu wrote: Why don't you try finding scum? It's more the part that you are not trying to find scum and are just bantering away like a mofo He goes on to chastise people for not scumhunting and then when he returns to the thread he posts a list of town reads and says he is going to sheep one of them, essentially failing to do what he questions others about. | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
About to drive home. Pretty sure I'll be back in time for flip. | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
bleh that's annoying. Had to stick around work longer than I had planned. Seems a bunch of shenanigans went during the last hour. I'll have to re-read tomorrow. Hi rayn and BM! | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
On August 21 2015 06:56 Fecalfeast wrote: wait chezinu claims mafia and gives up then votes to save himself after saying he wanted to vote himself? ##unvote ##vote chezinu On August 21 2015 06:59 Fecalfeast wrote: OK chez isn';t mafia but idk the rux wagon is scummy yolo ##unvote ##vote waveofshadow Fecal, what made you turn away from the chez lynch? He didn't have any posts between these two posts above. Tube could be a decent night shot. A lot of defending himself and a few unnecessarily aggressive comments like "Hypocrisy is delicious." and "You guys are retarded.". His most redeeming part for me right now is the fact that he chose to vote chez over the flipped town when he said he didn't have a strong preference between the two. I suppose that becomes null if chez is town too though. If chez does flip mafia at some point, I think LT would come off looking pretty scummy. He talks about consolidating about chez, but once there is consolidation on chez, he shows a preference for rux and tube without a ton of explanation. Then he talks about shooting yamato instead of chez. In the back of my mind, I'm kinda paranoid that geript is like the mafia leader or something and is trying to buddy me a bit at some point. I doubt I would ever consider lynching him until at least day 5 or something though. Wave, what is the game you are referring to about Kelsier? I don't see any reference to it earlier on, but maybe I missed it. I still think Breshke is mafia. | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
Hmm looking through the filters, this is who each player was scum reading prior to death. Both were pretty anti-tube and Kelsier and chezinu were on both their radar as well. Half the Sky Strong suspicion of Tubesock and Rels. Secondary suspicion of Kelsier, Yamato. Minor suspicion of Chezinu and Damdred. WaveofShadow Strong suspicion of Tubesock and Kelsier Secondary suspicion of Chezinu and Ticktock. Nothing too surprising with the shots I suppose. Both decent players. | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
On August 22 2015 08:01 ritoky wrote: can you respond to some of what i found in your filter. and also give a list of at least scum reads? town reads are okay too. On August 22 2015 04:24 JudgeJudy wrote: Fecal, what made you turn away from the chez lynch? He didn't have any posts between these two posts above. This one too. | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
I tend to agree that ritoky's role doesn't really sound legit. | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
On August 22 2015 08:08 KelsierSC wrote: my role states i cant vote anyone who other people are voting so i believe his roile On August 21 2015 06:54 rsoultin wrote: Day 1 Votecount Damdred (2): errr, yet it counted when you did voted damdred and someone already voting damdred? | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
On August 22 2015 08:32 Fecalfeast wrote: I keep forgetting that damdred is claimed survivor i'm dumb yeah as far as I'm concerned, damdred isn't worth considering at any point until lylo. He could be fake claiming survivor, but nobody else has claimed survivor and he seems more trolly than scummy at this point. chez is likely in this game since he is such a strong personality and nobody else seems like they are chez. Plus chezinu was a survivor in Personality 2 so the claim seems legit for now. kel.....why are you alignment checking HtS of all people? | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
I think he claimed that he checks the alignment of the player he votes or something. Maybe I misread. | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
The thing about ritoky that is sketchy is that he is writing up cases and stuff about the people he claims to have rng'd. It's one thing to have to vote a player in the voting thread, but I'm almost positive a host wouldn't make a role that says "you have to actively push for this rng'd player's lynch." That would be pointless for the player to even be in the game. | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
I tend to agree with Rels about yamato. He said he would play day two when he was under fire and then goes back to afk. He even admits to playing CS:GO for 7 hours so it's not like he doesn't have the time to give a few reads. This game isn't exactly too difficult to keep up with. Voting for him at the moment. Wave mentioned that he thought kel was acting similar to when they were scum buddies in a similar game. As far as I can tell, he is referring to TL Mafia LXXI: Gaiden. I do see the similarities between that one and this one. Looking at his town games like Himalayas, there are a lot more questions throughout your filter, where as this one there are very few, if any. Take a look at this filter: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/487093-mafia-in-the-himalayas?user=KelsierSC&view=all At this point, there are so many people that I'd want to kill off, that I don't even know where to start. It could very well be some sort of massive afk scum team like BM, rayn, tube, chez, kel, yamato and then town just loses because there are too many people who simply haven't said anything this game to kill them all off. Even someone like chezinu is flying way too under the radar considering his day two contributions. All he has talked about is how he wants us to active some power and how he is happy he isn't getting lynched. HtS was really, really suspicious of Rels prior to death, but at least he has a couple of meaningful posts this cycle. Town cred is so easy to earn at this point by simply doing anything, but I don't mind awarding it, if the alternative is a bunch of nothingness. | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
On August 24 2015 01:17 Lord Tolkien wrote: Tube is getting nuked: at this point I'm not even going to believe a "green check" claim on him to save his ass. Shining's fate is tied to tube. Shining would look worse if tube flips town, while someone like chez flips mafia, but I don't necessarily think that "Shining's fate" should be tied to tube. I could see a situation where a town player shoots a town tube. On August 24 2015 01:13 Rels wrote: Judge: what do you think of ff ? Don't think I would lynch him today. His kill list seems pretty close to mine. Would probably want to look at him closer a cycle or two from now. | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
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JudgeJudy
188 Posts
On August 21 2015 22:00 yamato77 wrote: Do not kill me and I may play next day phase (especially since I have no work this weekend). On August 22 2015 08:56 yamato77 wrote: mk I'll help town some time today On August 24 2015 04:22 yamato77 wrote: alright, peace guys was waiting for modkill, am disappoint good luck with your lynch Why are you guys voting Rels over yamato? I mean, this sequence of posts alone makes him the best lynch. | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
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JudgeJudy
188 Posts
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JudgeJudy
188 Posts
Your buddy JudgeJudy wants some toys! | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
I currently have nothing to add, but this gif was too cute to pass up. | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
Wait, so if chezinu has an anti-nuke, why wouldn't he save himself from the first one, until yamato fired one 2 minutes from the deadline? | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
Here is where I'm at with this game in case I get killed off. Mafia Tubesock - I'm hoping the nuke takes care of him tonight. A lot of my reads are based on the assumption that he flips mafia, so if he is town I would probably have to do a complete re-read. The fact that he showed up way late in the cycle yesterday to try to save rayn makes me feel less worried he might flip green. Yamato77 - Promises to contribute to help town, fails to do so. Randomly shoots down one of the nukes aimed at chezinu. Votes for himself. Maybe rayn had the stronger mafia role and yamato wanted to keep the pgo alive for a detective or vig snipe? Lord Tolkien - Repeatedly asks for people to visit the mafia pgo at night. Ends up on the Rels lynch, even though he talks about how rayn could be mafia. Seems like he wants to save tube at one point, but wants town's permission to do so: "I'm prob the last town antinuke, so I need to decide if I should block shining" Scummy Null Ritoky - Claims a rng role which is fine, but then proceeds to push the rng'd players as if he has no other choice. I would think a town player would vote for their forced rng targets, then push other people for the actual lynch. His night two posts seemed rather reasonable on the other hand. So I have bumped him down from the straight scum pile. Chezinu - This guy has nine lives. Something weird is going on with the yamato and chezinu. chezinu has an anti-nuke, but doesn't fire it to save himself from LT's nuke. Then yamato shows up with two minutes and saves him. I'm really, really confused about this right now. At the same time, I don't LT + yamato + chez makes a ton of sense unless they are trying to WIFOM their way to victory. KelsierSC - meh Third Party Damdred - Survivor claim Town JudgeJudy The Shining Tictock Fidei86 Rels I don't think it's likely, but if one of the individuals that lynched rayn were to flip mafia I suppose it might maaaaybe be Rels if it were a scum vs scum type of scenario, but I'd say that would be like less than 5% odds of happening. geript - Green checked by BM. Generally townie aside from check. Breshke - Green checked by Kel (If I remember correctly). Nuked tube who will likely flip scum. Townish Null Fecalfeast ObiWanShinobi Bill Murray These guys haven't done too much that strikes me as odd. I would want to lynch the peeps under the scum and scummy null categories before them. | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
lolol I'm not sure who is worse, yamato for failing get to lynched when up against a mafia wagon or rayn for getting lynched over the jester :D ggs to the dead peeps! | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
On August 25 2015 09:57 geript wrote: We've flipped a watcher and a cop. Why do we expect a second cop? Well typically mafia don't make a 1:1 trade with a cop check. Either the cop check is true and we lynch LT or the cop check is false and we lynch LT first anyways and then probably kel the next day. It could be a scum kel who knows that LT is going to get lynched anyways, but even in that scenario we lynch LT first. What we need to decide is whether or not there was a framer involved. He would probably be a good target for mafia to frame, but I tend to think he is already mafia due to the other stuff like pointing people to the pgo and the tube comment I mentioned earlier. | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT I just alignment checked geript and he is town. | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
Yeah I agree. I don't really see a situation where it makes sense to lynch KSC before LT. Even if he is lying about the check, its probably because they are scum buddies, rather than KSC taking a 1:1 trade to ensure a townie LT would get lynched, who was almost certainly getting killed today or tomorrow anyways. | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
On August 25 2015 23:44 ObiWanShinobi wrote: God the mkx netcode pisses me off. It's so bad. SO BAD. Maybe my anger management therapist Tictock can give you a beating to make you feel better? I think I've let him down a bit since there hasn't been much to get worked up about so far this game | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
On August 26 2015 01:15 ObiWanShinobi wrote: How about I just nuke Damdred? Why? He promised me toys! | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
geript, can you ask hts a question that only she would know the answer to in order to confirm her identity? | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
On August 26 2015 05:12 geript wrote: But like, idk why it even matters. I'm pretty sure Damdred is survivor. I'm pretty sure it's not HtS. And I'm pretty sure mafia are telling us who 3P is. So i kinda don't care because it's a pretty insane play for mafia to make. How long have you had access to this qt? Was this death qt initiated by you or did you randomly receive the qt as a night action? Is their writing style comparable to any other player in the game? Do the timestamps from the qt suggest a certain timezone that the player is awake? Have they posted any other information of interest? | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
On August 26 2015 13:46 Tictock wrote: If there is in fact an SK this game it would lead me to think that there are in fact only 3 mafia. Three seems way off in my opinion, especially in an all blue game. At the start of the game I looked at a few other setups of this size just so we would have an idea of what we were dealing with and it looks to be around twice that number. For instance, in onegu's most recent theme game there were 6 mafia and 1 serial killer in a 22 player game (this game has 21). Survivor doesn't really impact things one way or the other, but the jester is mafia favored so I'd say that could probably take the slot of the serial killer, which is a more neutral third party role, which would mean either 6 mafia and 1 jester or maybe 5 mafia, 1 jester and 1 serial killer. | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
On August 26 2015 14:12 Tictock wrote: Honestly is there is any mafia who were on the Rayn wagon it would be JJ. His vote on rayn only happened one rayn was for sure being lynched. lol rayn wasn't "for sure" being lynched when I voted. At the time it was a tie at 5-5 (Though I had no idea of the count because so many votes were flying in during the last 5 minutes....and even less idea who had reached critical mass first and would hold the tiebreaker). When tube showed up out of nowhere to vote Rels, he obviously thought he could save rayn. Then KSC unvoted too and I moved over to rayn, which turned out to be the hammer on rayn after Rels moved to yamato (which I obviously couldn't have predicted at the time). On August 26 2015 17:47 Fidei86 wrote: TT I agree on JJ - he seems to have really fallen off recently :-/ Ehh I was sick most of yesterday and slept like 14 hours. I'm feeling a bit better today, but I think I've earned a 24 hour pass On August 26 2015 20:40 Tictock wrote: Should JJ die because she's a mean boss? BACK TO WORK! | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
On August 26 2015 22:23 Chezinu wrote: WHAT ARE YOU DOING!??!?!?! THERE IS A PERFECTLY RELEVANT GIF YOU CAN BE USING!!! MY GIFS ARE ALWAYS PERFECTLY RELEVANT!. It's a jester, who shares a striking resemblance with yamato! For the record, if I had an anti-nuke I would totally save you, if only for speaking in koshi quotes the whole game. I actually thought about that, but I figured nobody would pick up on it, which seems to be what happened with you | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
^^ (Get it? Lynch or lose? I'm so funny) ^^ TT's comment about lylo does make me a bit paranoid because I didn't really consider that we could be so close. If we assume nine town remaining, four mafia , 1 survivor (who would prefer to work with town, but would vote with mafia if it guaranteed a win at lylo) and zero serial killers Rels Fidei86 Breshke geript Damdred JudgeJudy ObiWanShinobi Ritoky Tictock Fecalfeastt Lord Tolkien Chezinu KelsierSC I doubt both LT and chez are both mafia since LT nuked chez earlier in the game, unless the nuke was fake or something. If both are town, then we would have seven town and four anti-town........with 1-2 night hits we're probably at lylo tomorrow and the three cycles after that. If one is town and one is mafia, we would be at 8 town and 4 anti-town.....after night hits 6-7 town and 4 anti-town. Lynching town in that situation would mean that we would be at 5-6 town plus night hits so maybe 4-5 town and four anti-town so it would likely depend whether or mafia would have 2 kp with three mafia remaining. I've seen some setups that do, but it usually drops off at the 4th so it may not necessarily be lyo tomorrow if we get a mafia flip today. | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
On August 26 2015 23:55 Breshke wrote: JJ give me a list of people you are considering for mafia? It hasn't changed a ton since my last list at the start of today (or maybe it was right before the n2 deadline? I forget.) I think LT is probably going to flip mafia based on the red check, the inactivity, the pgo stuff, etc. If he flips town, then I'd need to re-evaluate the cop checks since they conflict with each other. At this point, I think I'd probably be more willing to lynch KSC for that scenario. chez would probably be mafia in a situation where LT is town. If LT flips mafia, I'd still likely go after KSC. The whole "my check wasn't important" then randomly a red check on LT, in combination with FF returning a "no check" makes the whole thing seem pretty sketchy. The most likely scenario is that he claimed a red check on LT who was going to die anyways and then wanted to town cred because he was pretty close to next on the pecking order anyways. I think four cops seems pretty unlikely as well. I'm not sure I've ever seen that many in a single game. Late, late game if KSC flips town and FF is still around shooting out checks without being roleblocked or shot then I'd assume he would be a good mafia candidate due to the unlikely 4th cop scenario. Ritoky I'm leaning null-mafia because of the whole "push the random lynch" stuff early on and the game. This one kinda comes with a processes of elimination since the ones below I'm more town on than anything. If LT/chez and one or both of ksc and ff flip mafia then the game is probably over by this point anyways. The one thing that worries me is that mafia probably has a roleblocker in a setup with all blues. Claiming the roleblock on HTS does strike me as odd though. I went back into his filter, thinking that he had called HTS one of his town reads, but in fact he was suspicious about HTS for a post towards the end of the cycle, which would line up with when the roleblock was submitted. That's the biggest reason I would have doubts, since claiming a rb on an obvious town player makes him look bad. That could be wifom, but I'm not sure. The scenario I'm considering is that he wanted town cred for revealing geript's qt is fake and claiming rb would be the way to show that HTS didnt get off a watcher result. Not sure if that makes sense though. Obi I thought was kinda town at the start of the game. I was comparing his town filters in the database against this one and things seemed rather similar. As mafia, I noticed he likes to randomly jump in the thread and ask people to make him talk about a certain subject. I know people mentioned that his anger looked fake or exaggerated, but he does tend to be an emotional player. I wanna say I remember something like that in a specific game, but I'll have to go back and see if I can find the example again. I wouldn't place him above geript, breshke, fidei, TT or rels, but I'd rather have him around instead of the others above. The town alignment checked players seem fine to me. The rayn lynches other than myself I haven't paid much attention to at this point. There is a scenario where rayn could have been a mafia driven bus for late game cred, but I think that is less likely since tube showed up at the last second to vote rels. It could be rels + tube + rayn in that situation, but I think rels has looked pretty townie. I plan to do a full re-read of each of the non-confirmed players, but I've only done one so far (fidei) and he seems town even if you take out the rayn stuff in my opinion. Where are you at breshke? On August 26 2015 23:52 Breshke wrote: So has jj claimed any role actions? Nope. Revealing my role benefits mafia more than town in my opinion. I'd be willing to claim it if we ever reached a mass claim situation (which I don't think we should do just yet), but there isn't a great reason to just throw it out randomly at this point. | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
On August 27 2015 00:52 Rels wrote: ^ it really aligns with what I think. Except the ritoky bit, I like ritoky more than you. One thing: when/if LT flips mafia, chez is town for you ? Unless there is a good explanation for why LT would nuke chez on day two (maybe LT flips with a fake nuke or something?), then yeah I think chez would be town. Who would you pick in place of ritoky then Rels? | ||
JudgeJudy
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On August 27 2015 00:54 Rels wrote: Cause either Chez or FF is lying, so if Chez is town, he *knows* FF is not-town. But Chez called the possibility of FF being town when discussing with me earlier. I cannot see a town player forgetting something obvious like that. Could you elaborate on the part where town chez knows FF isn't town? I think I may have missed that part. | ||
JudgeJudy
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Ah yeah, considering ritoky claims the roleblock on chez that means two people are refuting his actions unless it's FF + ritoky red and chez town, which doesn't make a ton of sense for them to double refute if chez wasn't going to flip red. Does a scenario where one of FF/ritoky is town and chez is mafia make sense? Though that also brings back the question, why would likely mafia LT nuke his scum buddy chez? I wonder if chez is like a traitor or something a mafia nuked him by accident without knowing lol. | ||
JudgeJudy
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On August 27 2015 07:07 rsoultin wrote: Lord Tolkien as Fecalfeast has been lynched. On August 27 2015 06:56 Damdred wrote: The house of brown will always rise again. The bank troll checking jj tonight. May all non believers perish. Hopefully the damdred rule works on ff by end of game Coolio. You promised me presents too today, right? | ||
JudgeJudy
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On August 27 2015 23:09 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Doesn't role blocker return "no result" or how exactly does that happen? If I remember correctly, FF said one of his checks went through so it couldn't have been a rb. | ||
JudgeJudy
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Can anyone think of anything that would link marv, HF, and FF together? Maybe we can figure out the remaining personalities that way. 2/3 were scum in one game, but that was as close as I got. Probably a long shot though. | ||
JudgeJudy
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On August 19 2015 10:36 Lord Tolkien wrote: ##Vote VayneAuthority On August 21 2015 05:06 Lord Tolkien wrote: VayneAuthority: It appears I was correct in saying early that VayneAuthority had no time for the game hue. + Show Spoiler + the correct meme is that he would have no time for this nonsense but w/e On August 21 2015 05:24 Lord Tolkien wrote: Dude. Tubesock. On August 21 2015 05:27 Lord Tolkien wrote: 1) You're crying over a soft blue claim in a heavily themed game. Get over it. 2) Move your vote off Yamato. He talks or he suffers the consequences. 3) You push Fidel long after he's mostly cleared himself. Eh. Putting you in the ??? pile. On August 21 2015 05:56 Lord Tolkien wrote: But yes, I am still going to have to KP someone so nyah. It's going to be out of a pool of yamato, KelsierSC, Damdred, VayneAuthority, and ruXxar. On August 21 2015 06:24 Lord Tolkien wrote: Im throwing tubesock onto my potential kill list. On August 22 2015 00:34 Lord Tolkien wrote: It should be obvious who needs to be checked because of D1 shenanies (including, but not limited to, the two people who subbed in [personally highly suspicious of VA/rayn but eh], one of the surviving lynch bandwagons [tubesock et al], damdred). On August 23 2015 15:08 Lord Tolkien wrote: Person who really really needs to be checked is rayn. On August 24 2015 01:17 Lord Tolkien wrote: Tube is getting nuked: at this point I'm not even going to believe a "green check" claim on him to save his ass. All I'll say is that Rayn is a D3 lynch, and a N2 check. On August 24 2015 05:44 Lord Tolkien wrote: If yams shoots down the tubes nuke i will be srsly annoyed right now. Reading through LT's filter, a pattern I noticed is that he was looking to bus other players at any opportunity. It seems like mafia were trying to set him up as a late game player or something considering how many times he shared suspicion of vayne, rayn, and tube. There was a decent amount of scum to scum interaction through his filter as well. They made it a point to chat about a couple random things. If LT did indeed know that his nuke would fake, then nuking his scum buddy chezinu would absolutely line up with this play style by attempting to separate the two players via the nuke so if chez were to ever flip, LT would come out looking real good. The other player that gets mentioned a fair amount was KSC. He brought up him a couple times in his list posts and then there is this one below as well. On August 22 2015 04:47 Lord Tolkien wrote: The more you post like that ksc, the more im tempted to shoot you over my obvious night shot. | ||
JudgeJudy
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On August 28 2015 00:19 Tictock wrote: JJ I hope you realize my accusation of you earlier was just part of my methods. You appeared to be in need of a fire under your arse to help get some things done. Also is was interesting to see who else wanted to jump on that action. Posts like that one are why I appreciate being in your employ, and is why there will be several bills sent to you later for my services. Maybe one day when I retire I can pass down the torch and you can take over my show. <3 + Show Spoiler + LOL JK, JUDGEJUDY IS ETERNAL | ||
JudgeJudy
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lol I was hoping to see which one obi would go with, but I'm not sure how much longer I'll be around this afternoon. Go ahead and send yours at chez, maybe we can end the game tonight. Moma has been holding on to a present! ^_^ ##Nuke: Fecalfeast | ||
JudgeJudy
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If this were a Caller game, this is the point where all the mafia dies, but town loses due to radiation | ||
JudgeJudy
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My bad my poopy platter friend. On August 28 2015 07:44 Damdred wrote: Negative that's why I wanted obi to tell me if he was nuking me so I could tell that info before I died. He does have green checks. Also I got no notice of being rb You said you were going to check me tonight. I assume you'd know if you were rb'd based on that action? lol at chez having 9 lives. On the bright side, we have essentially a double lynch today with the nuke. | ||
JudgeJudy
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On that topic, why are you roleblocking a player with a claimed check ritoky? Does the suspicion of a cult outweigh being able to confirm another player as town? | ||
JudgeJudy
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Did you have a check last night KSC? | ||
JudgeJudy
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Yep I'm on board the chezinu lynch. Since the nukes keep failing, the lynch seems to be the way to go. I'll spend more time on Obi next. What do you think about KSC, Rels? Now that FF has flipped town, do you buy the claim that KSC was fake claiming cop as town? | ||
JudgeJudy
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On August 28 2015 16:46 Rels wrote: Vote recaps colored with flips Day 1 final vote ruXxar (7): Breshke, Chezinu (5): geript, JudgeJudy, Tubesock (2): The Shining, Fidei86 (2): ritoky, ObiWanShinobi (1): ruXxar WaveofShadow (1): FecalFeast Half the Sky (1): KelsierSC Damdred (0): VayneAuthority (0): yamato77 (0): Not Voting (2): VayneAuthority, Beneather If we make the assumption that chezinu is mafia, then the day one lynch becomes more important because it would be a highly contested lynch between town ruXxar and mafia. Mafia almost never want to give up a red lynch on day one because it makes it so difficult to come back from. What I found most concerning was this string of posts within Obi's filter: On August 21 2015 02:08 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Chez is interesting though. Could see lynching him. On August 21 2015 05:45 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Lynching either rux or chez. On August 21 2015 06:08 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Tbh I kinda want to switch back and kill rux anyway. On August 21 2015 06:37 ObiWanShinobi wrote: You want to swing back to rux? I'm serious. I'll do it. On August 21 2015 06:41 ObiWanShinobi wrote: I really don't care about this lynch at all. He is content with a chez lynch, he is fine with a rux lynch. It doesn't seem like he has a strong preference either way. Then he proceeds to favor the rux lynch. He tries to get a switch rolling. He asks wave to join him. He clearly prefers rux over chez at this point. Yet four minutes later, he says he doesn't care about the lynch, when just previous he was trying to get the ball rolling on the push for rux. On August 28 2015 17:34 Rels wrote: OK! So why did he do this ? Here is what I believe happened: - OWS and Chezinu mafia together, maybe the last ones - OWS delayed the time to make a decision during several hours - Just after the nuke deadline passed, OWS finally posted he would nuke Chezinu - But of course the nuke didn't work And here is why he did it He nuked Chezinu 1 minute after nuke deadline so he would not kill his partner. But he nuked Chezinu so he would gain town cred after Chez flipped. He also nuked after the deadline so he still kept the nuke to use on anyone else in case Chezinu flipped; after all, supposing there are 5 mafias, he would be the last alive; nuking anyone would be good for him. TLDR OWS purposefully nuked Chezinu 1 minute after nuke deadline. He did it so Chezinu lived another day; for the towncred if Chezinu flipped; and to keep the nuke for another person later. On August 22 2015 06:37 Lord Tolkien wrote: ##nuke chezinu On August 22 2015 07:12 Lord Tolkien wrote: Lol. So there was a silent period i didn't know of. On August 22 2015 07:16 Lord Tolkien wrote: Ill just save it for a second lynch wagon. This part is interesting because LT did the exact same thing on day one. He told the thread that he intended to nuke chezinu, but showed up to fire too late so the nuke didn't count. He then brings him back up for discussion on day two so we start the whole "nuke/lynch" chezinu discussion all over again. Then he fires the fake nuke, so chez is still around on day three. It seems like the mafia's plan was just make chezinu a giant distraction (which they have succeeded at), while never actually taking him out in the process. At the same time, this seems like a huge gamble for obi to make if he is indeed scum buddies with chezinu. Chez would need a miracle to save himself today on day four and obi would need to rely on town buying the fact that he didn't know about the nuke deadline. I actually didn't realize that the nuke deadline was one hour ahead of the silent period, rather than before the silent period itself, so I'm not willing to rule out that obi didn't make the same mistake. I've kinda had obi on my null-town list most of the game from when I compared his filter to the database filters earlier on. On November 06 2014 11:08 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Too late, dickitude activated. Get some. On November 06 2014 10:20 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Are you fucking serious? I've been saying the same shit on repeat for the past three days and you STILL have no idea why I voted Lt? Are you actually mafia? Are you deliberately ignoring me? On November 06 2014 11:13 ObiWanShinobi wrote: It doesn't matter because that's not why I voted Lt. It doesn't matter because that's not why I voted Lt. It doesn't matter because that's not why I voted Lt. It doesn't matter because that's not why I voted Lt. It doesn't matter because that's not why I voted Lt. It doesn't matter because that's not why I voted Lt. It doesn't matter because that's not why I voted Lt. It doesn't matter because that's not why I voted Lt. It doesn't matter because that's not why I voted Lt. It doesn't matter because that's not why I voted Lt. It doesn't matter because that's not why I voted Lt. It doesn't matter because that's not why I voted Lt. It doesn't matter because that's not why I voted Lt. It doesn't matter because that's not why I voted Lt. It doesn't matter because that's not why I voted Lt. It doesn't matter because that's not why I voted Lt. It doesn't matter because that's not why I voted Lt. It doesn't matter because that's not why I voted Lt. It doesn't matter because that's not why I voted Lt. It doesn't matter because that's not why I voted Lt. It doesn't matter because that's not why I voted Lt. It doesn't matter because that's not why I voted Lt. It doesn't matter because that's not why I voted Lt. It doesn't matter because that's not why I voted Lt. It doesn't matter because that's not why I voted Lt. It doesn't matter because that's not why I voted Lt. It doesn't matter because that's not why I voted Lt. It doesn't matter because that's not why I voted Lt. It doesn't matter because that's not why I voted Lt. It doesn't matter because that's not why I voted Lt. It doesn't matter because that's not why I voted Lt. It doesn't matter because that's not why I voted Lt. It doesn't matter because that's not why I voted Lt. It doesn't matter because that's not why I voted Lt. It doesn't matter because that's not why I voted Lt. It doesn't matter because that's not why I voted Lt. It doesn't matter because that's not why I voted Lt. It doesn't matter because that's not why I voted Lt. It doesn't matter because that's not why I voted Lt. It doesn't matter because that's not why I voted Lt. It doesn't matter because that's not why I voted Lt. It doesn't matter because that's not why I voted Lt. It doesn't matter because that's not why I voted Lt. It doesn't matter because that's not why I voted Lt. It doesn't matter because that's not why I voted Lt. On November 06 2014 10:33 ObiWanShinobi wrote: You've called me bad in just about every single game we've been in and you're acting like me getting pissed off is completely unfounded. On November 06 2014 11:58 ObiWanShinobi wrote: I love how you think I'm pulling the wool over your eyes as I lay on my death bed. On November 12 2014 12:21 ObiWanShinobi wrote: If I ever get tunneled like that again I'm just going to omgus as hard as I possibly can. I won't even care if whoever is doing it flips town. Never again. At some point in the game, someone (I think it might have been you Rels) brought up how it seemed obi was mafia because the anger he displayed when people shared suspicion of him was way overboard. It was assumed that the anger must be fake since that is something mafia typically do when they are getting pushed. However, obi tends to sometimes get emotional when he is being pushed for reasons that he doesn't see as valid. For instance, here in Hearthstone Mafia (quotes above), then entire town is hammering him for a mislynch and he gets all worked up and he was town that game. That kinda seemed similar to what we saw here earlier. As mafia, the general trend that I found skimming through his games was that he typically has an attitude of "I can't be bothered to read the thread". In this game, there are a few instances where he seems like he is actually spending time to put thought into something or maybe going back to read something, though there are still a few quotes you can find where he simply says that he doesn't care. I wish I had a stronger read here, but I'm kind of on the fence. There are reasons that I see that point to mafia and reasons that could make him town. He is one of the more difficult players to read to begin with in my opinion. I'll probably take a closer look at KSC and ritoky next to see if I can be more confident on either of them. | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
On August 28 2015 23:23 Rels wrote: OK. JJ if you received a PM like that yourself; was it unclear ? Yeah it was. | ||
JudgeJudy
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On August 28 2015 23:33 ObiWanShinobi wrote: I may be biased because I keep thinking a KSC lynch is bad. I feel like people are resigned towards trying to lynch him for being lazy, and I'm not sure that's a tell for him either way. On August 21 2015 02:08 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Kels will step up eventually if he is town. You used that exact tell to read him earlier though... | ||
JudgeJudy
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On August 28 2015 23:52 Rels wrote: Maybe I'm wrong on the helping the LT lynch. LT was confirmed mafia in my mind N2 for the 3 posts saying "check rayn" + sheeping a vote on me + not switching while being semi AFK + nuking not the second vote wagon. But maybe KSC's red check helped others vote him. Rels - Already thought LT was mafia On August 28 2015 23:52 Rels wrote: LT was confirmed mafia in my mind N2 for the 3 posts saying "check rayn" + sheeping a vote on me + not switching while being semi AFK + nuking not the second vote wagon. Fidei86 - Seemed Null on LT. Wanted to lynch FF first. KSC check probably influenced him. On August 25 2015 19:54 Fidei86 wrote: I would rather lynch FF than LT, but I'm happy to sheep the town circle, if you all are set on LT. JudgeJudy - Already thought LT was mafia ObiWanShinobi - Looks like he had LT in his top two, but prefered chez and switched over to LT after claim. On August 24 2015 13:29 ObiWanShinobi wrote: I still want to lynch yamato. LT is also a good choice for selling rayn as a good cop check. Otherwise whatever. On August 25 2015 07:06 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Oh right I forgot that someone else guessed it. Nvm ignore me I'm just rambly and bad. I'ma vote Chez. Breshke - Seems like LT was his preference to die after tube on n2, but he didn't outright say it. On August 24 2015 09:50 Breshke wrote: shining do you have more nukes? You should nuke LT On August 24 2015 23:18 Breshke wrote: ##Nuke:Lord Tolkien Tictock - Was on the fence about LT prior to the claim. KSC likely pushed him on LT over chez. On August 25 2015 07:15 Tictock wrote: So tbh, I'm not all that convinced LT is scum. The fact that he was saying to check rayn is only bad in retrospect since rayn flipped pgo, his late vote on rels is a bit more telling though For now, I'm with Obi Chez is either scum or needs to start pulling his weight if he is town. ##Vote: Chez Damdred - Tough to say who would have lynched D3. It isn't very clear based on filter. ritoky - Posted this prior to KSC's claim. Likely either LT or chez. On August 25 2015 07:11 ritoky wrote: imo the 3 possible lynches today are rels, LT, and chez. probably moreso just LT and chez. I went back to see where everyone was at prior to the KSC red check claim on LT. It seems like most people suspected a combination of LT and chez at the time. It was probably pretty even between who would have been lynched on d3 between the two. KSC probably did change the mind of a couple people....Fidei and TT in particular. While I agree that the check was likely responsible for pushing LT over the top of chez, without the red check I'd say LT would have lasted one more cycle at the most. | ||
JudgeJudy
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On August 29 2015 04:18 Tictock wrote: Also did JJ ever say if this was real or not? Image hidden for sake of the thread. lol yeah that was a joke :p Also, double image for the sake of the thread. | ||
JudgeJudy
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On August 29 2015 04:20 Rels wrote: geript was a good frame target, with how he acted (I think I attacked him during D2 quite a bit) + FF softed his role had something to do with his vote I agree I would kill KSC before geript. If KSC flips town though I think geript is mafia they could also be only 4 mafias maybe ? And game ends today either way I was under the impression that a "Mafia Framer" makes a town player show up as red, while a "Mafia Cover" ability makes a mafia player show up as green. Can a Mafia Framer even be used that way to make a mafia player show up as town? | ||
JudgeJudy
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On August 29 2015 05:03 geript wrote: He seems to care about getting a bunch of votes super early. That makes me think some kind of prince of darkness power. Could you point me to what you are referring to here? Also, regardless of what power KSC may have, what is your read on chez? Has your mason qt been of any use? | ||
JudgeJudy
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On August 29 2015 05:12 ritoky wrote: that nuke is really dumb. like really dumb. like this dumb: ##vote chezinu I'd imagine it's fake considering chezinu posted the nuke message for the mod. :p You still voting chez if the nuke is fake? On August 29 2015 05:14 Tictock wrote: Also I approve of the Red Green Show gif. Glad someone got it :D | ||
JudgeJudy
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On August 29 2015 05:38 geript wrote: Listen you little fuckwit. If you would like to read my filter and figure it out, then please do so. Otherwise, I literally will fucking get everyone to lynch you for being the fuckwit you are. I'm town. Get the fuck over it. Damdred's not town; he can say whatever the fuck he wants because his wincon is 100% different from mine. But pull your iddy biddy head out of your gaping asshole or get you will get rekt'd. Err perhaps you should take a 60 minute break from the thread My anger management therapist recommends yoga. | ||
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On August 29 2015 05:54 Rels wrote: But you're right, its maybe too late. He already refused to give a chez read and try deflecting his lynch. He s probably mafia On August 22 2015 08:28 Fecalfeast wrote: the fact that your role's conditions sound so similar to mine makes m think your role is of the opposite alignment, as well. I'm thinking your 'alignment' check might be a rolecop check On August 22 2015 08:18 Fecalfeast wrote: I can't have my vote on the person who gets lynched or bad stuff happens to me so I was afraid that if chezinu was town, scum would snipe him last second and I would die judgejudy probably actually town, chezinu probably scum, I would kill tubesock. Damdred I haven't noticed while rereading this day but he's probably still scum. KelsierSC is probably scum too On August 23 2015 13:38 Fecalfeast wrote: over saturation of the same role archetype, I imagine one of you two is scum Initially I thought FF may have mentioned that his role was based on his voting target, but after looking back he was more vague. The only "clue" that FF was a cop would have been the fact that he was so suspicious about the number of other cops. There doesn't really seem to be enough information to deduce that he was a cop that checks his vote target. I suppose it's possible for the mafia team to deduce that based on the random vote, but it kinda seems unlikely, no? If they didn't figure that out, I don't think geript would have been a great framer target because weren't there already other claims that made him town, so mafia wouldn't think he would get checked on n2 at that point? I do agree that a bit more explanation about the chez stuff is needed though. I don't really follow what he is getting at. | ||
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On August 28 2015 08:59 ritoky wrote: the list is now down to: OWS KSC rels chez i remember logicking out why it couldn't have been a mafia vs mafia wagon earlier so rels is probably off the list. if ksc really is town here....then the mafia is literally chez + OWS or else there was 1 in the rayn wagon.... Just to follow up here.....what do you think is the most likely scenario? a) mafia KSC b) chez + obi c) at least one mafia on rayn wagon d) other? | ||
JudgeJudy
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On August 29 2015 07:49 ritoky wrote: were other people's upgrades not explicitly stated to them? that's news to me. Naw mine wasn't | ||
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On August 29 2015 08:05 ritoky wrote: i actually watched this movie in the middle of the night last night cuz my daughter has a cold. I know. | ||
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On August 29 2015 08:14 ritoky wrote: i mean we are gonna lynch chez, he is gonna flip mafia and i am conf town; unless we plan to not lynch him which i feel is stupid in every capacity, discussing my alignment is a waste of time until he flips really. So I assume that means you think obi should hold off on using his nuke today? | ||
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Oh wow, that's an interesting development. Claim seems to match up with this post from Fidei earlier about his checks being revealed: On August 24 2015 23:23 Fidei86 wrote: Viz who will get shot this evening, I have a message to mafia: :-) So if you were roleblocked last night and ritoky is a mafia roleblocker, I would assume ritoky would have roleblocked you, right? Yet damdred claimed that he didn't receive a result from his action last night, suggesting that ritoky had roleblocked him. damdred, can you confirm that you didn't make that part up? | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
It also seems like Fidei has been scum reading ritoky the entire game without wavering, which also supports the claim. On August 20 2015 16:19 Fidei86 wrote: Ritoky's posts since my wot are much more like what I expect from town ritoky, fwiw. On August 24 2015 05:57 Fidei86 wrote: Thought about it, and I'm writing a big long post about why I'm switching to ritoky, and why you all should too. On August 24 2015 06:00 Fidei86 wrote: C/P'ed from my long notepad post: I'm fairly sure ritoky is scum here. I have basically two key reasons: 1. I like playing with town ritoky. He makes me feel bad about how rubbish I am as town. Ritoky this game has been exactly the opposite, tonally. He usually asks good questions, gets good answers and generally really helps town. He is never massively sure of his reads, but he does push and probe at them. And he's well respected enough (I would think?) that he should know he could get his reads pushed, if he wanted to. This time, his style is twofold: (i) CERTAIN that I am mafiabut not really pushing me (ie even though a bunch of people indicated they might switch onto me, at least one of whom (TS) I'm pretty sure is town), he's happy to stick with Rels. (ii) His other reads are totally meh - he's not indifferent in a "this game is hard, I'm not sure" way, but rather a "I don't really give a crap" way. Damdred, who I know claims to be able to soul-read ritoky, said that he thought ritoky was mafia, and it seems to have been on tone. 2. Better players than me, and people I am town reading, have said that they don't buy his role claim. I don't either. A role where you can't control who you vote for? Now, other people have claimed to have similar roles, so I'm not ruling it out entirely, but I am sceptical. But, as other people have mentioned, there is no reason whatsoever for him then to try and push me for "serious" reasons. And when HTS and a bunch of other town players all came in and defended me (some of whom, btw, know me and my meta a lot better than he does) he never re-evaluated, but he never really kept pushing me either. He just keeps repeating that he thinks I'm scummy. I don't think town ritoky plays this way. On August 25 2015 08:05 Fidei86 wrote: @ritoky What is your role? It has been long enough now, you talked up having an extra power other than being forced to vote for someone, and I really want to know what it is. Another important tidbit....do have have confirmation that factional kp are carried out by players? Some games they can be watched, some they can't. | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
So even though the claim seems legit.....taking the paranoia route here, suppose the mafia team is Fidei and KSC. The claim would move the likely nuke target from KSC to ritoky. Chezinu - Lynched Ritoky - Nuked Town Rels geript JudgeJudy ObiWanShinobi Tictock Mafia Fidei86 KelsierSC 3P Damdred That would leave 5 town alive and 4 after the night hit. That means, even if the mafia were to align with the survivor, town would still outnumber them 4 to 3 so they wouldn't control the lynch and we could take them out over the next two cycles. That would mean mafia would need to have started with 6 members for us to be at lylo today. I suppose it's a possibility, but combined with the stuff that I quoted earlier that makes it likely that the claim is legit, this doesn't really seem like a lylo play by mafia to end the game now. Going to double-check the interactions between fidei and KSC in a sec just to be sure there isn't anything obvious for them to be together. | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
Cool nice job Rels. Check results seem to line up with Rel's thoughts on those three in his filter based on the time stamps of when he would have received each of those checks. | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
On August 30 2015 00:36 geript wrote: Rels 100% isn't a cop. Idk about TT's watcher claim. Explanation? Are you saying Rels is fake claiming as town to get chez lynched or fake claiming as mafia to save ritoky? And why? You also keep showing up to explain why chez is town, but really haven't said why. | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
On August 30 2015 00:55 Chezinu wrote: Here you go guys! okay I'm convinced. chez is innocent. I hear a distinct town tone in this laugh. | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
Uhhh why would we nuke today instead of tonight when the is the possibility of chez having an anti-nuke? That seems like the most likely way things could go wrong. Am I missing something? | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
Well how do we know that the first anti even counted considering the nuke was late? Is there a great advantage of firing tonight considering we have a rb to work with? | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
Hehe GG chez. Man if there weren't the shenanigans on day one we could have lynched four mafia in a row plus the fifth with the tube nuke. That would have been 2015 award worthy :D Hopefully things are over tonight. gj all. | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
On August 31 2015 00:53 Damdred wrote: I would bet that chez did find the scum team though... Well chez received his mason power on n2 from his upgrade so we know he couldn't have used that power on n1. ritoky claims to have roleblocked him on n2 so if he is town, we know he couldn't have used that power on n2. That leaves three scenarios where chez could have came in contact with the scum team. 1) chez successfully checked a scum on n3 and they became masons. 2) Ritoky did not roleblock chez on n2, they came in contact on night two, and ritoky claimed the roleblock after learning chez was the traitor. 3) geript used his mason power with chez and they connected that way. I don't think scenario 3 makes a ton of sense because even if geript were mafia, that would mean he would need to claim mafia to chez at a point where he didn't necessarily know chez's alignment. I don't think that's worth the risk. Scenario two is possible, but lying when there isn't a huge deal to gain at that point also doesn't seem worth the risk. I think scenario one is almost a certainty. Nobody claimed that they received a mason quicktopic from chezinu. Here are the scenarios that I could come up with: 1) chez chose never to use his role 2) chez used his role on a player that died night three and the mason was never initiated 3) chez masoned damdred and damdred chose not to reveal things because he has no reason to 4) chez masoned a mafia player, made contact and the mason was never claimed I'm going to eliminate 1 and 2 right off the bat because they don't make a ton of sense. I can't eliminate 3, but if chez is looking for mafia players, he likely doesn't think the third party claimer is mafia. Perhaps he wanted to gain information regarding whether damdred was a non-survivor role, but he never passed that information on to mafia prior to his death in the thread if they weren't in contact otherwise. That leaves scenario 4, which I think is the most likely. He contacted mafia on night three since a town player would have claimed it. That leaves two things to look into: 1) Did anyone suddenly change their opinion of chezinu between night three and day four? 2) How did chezinu figure out who to check? LT would have been dead before night three, so that means he would have had to target a mafia that we don't know about. That leads me to believe it's probably one of the more obvious individuals like KSC or obi, but when I have a chance I'll see if there are any hints that might suggest that chezinu knows more than he should. | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
On August 31 2015 01:55 Damdred wrote: Actually I've been,thinking... mafia really might of role cop me with lt before he died because they were super worried I was a cult leader. Which could point yo multiple people.. Huh, so did you receive a mason qt with chez or not? | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
On August 31 2015 07:51 Fidei86 wrote: I thought he was/is second towniest and I thought that Mafia would avoid Rels as he was an obvious medic save / watcher target. Obviously I was wrong. Still waiting for my result. Well Rels claimed cop. That means Rels either shoots Rels or roleblocks him and you watch the mafia shooter or roleblocker or Rels lives and reveals another check meh oh well, gotta do this the hard way I guess. | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
On August 31 2015 07:54 JudgeJudy wrote: Well Rels claimed cop. That means Rels either shoots Rels or roleblocks him and you watch the mafia shooter or roleblocker or Rels lives and reveals another check meh oh well, gotta do this the hard way I guess. Edit *mafia shoots Rels | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
On August 31 2015 07:53 ritoky wrote: geript didn't deliver kp last night, i rb'd him. Can everyone confirm that they didn't receive a mason with geript? Just want to make sure we don't need to worry about a scenario where ritoky was roleblocked, preventing his roleblock from going through. | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
Just read through every remaining players filter this game. I think I have a preferred lynch for today, but I want to check on a few more things. I'll try to summarize my thoughts, but it's probably going to take a while since there are a lot of angles that I'm looking at. Stay tuned | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
On August 31 2015 09:25 Tictock wrote: Please tell me it's damdred. Just once I want one of my tin foil theories to be correct. Afraid not XD | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
After the KSC flip, I decided to re-read for a fresh outlook. Prior to looking back through the filters of everyone in this game, something obviously didn't add up. I had town reads on every single player remaining. As we all know, that can't be possible. That means that an assumption that I was making earlier has a whole. I started thinking that I had messed up on my town read on obi or that maybe TT was playing the long game, but as I started putting together a post, neither really stuck and I eventually ditched them. ritoky was the second to last guy that I read through and I really think there is a compelling argument that proves that he is mafia. Looking through his filter, I was reminded about some of the things that bothered me about his play early on in the game, but got swept under the rug due to the other events of the claim and the cop check that was revealed on him. However, after taking another fresh look, I was able to formulate a case that shows how his play has been so scummy all game long. I've highlighted the major points in bold below. The Blazinghand Role During the first two cycles of the game, ritoky role played his Blazinghand role to the max. He claimed that the hosts present a random target to him each cycle. During the day one and day two cycle, he announces his RNG target, proceeds to make a flimsy case against them, and votes for that player at the end of the cycle. I want to highlight how brilliant of a claim this is. The toughest part about playing mafia is providing real opinions that look townie. By claiming that he has to vote for his rng target, he is free to push them the entire cycle, while avoiding the rest of the game. Is there an important lynch going down? Who cares! He is sticking with his random vote. There is a VERY important distinction that I want to make here. He claims that he must vote for the rng player to receive his upgrade. HE IS NOT REQUIRED TO ACTUALLY PUSH THAT PLAYER FOR A LYNCH. A host does not make a role where they tell you who you need to lynch each cycle. I doesn't happen. It would be pointless for that player to play. It's one thing for him to have claimed his role, state that he will be forced to vote for a certain player the first two cycles, and then proceed to play the game like a perfectly normal townie, pushing the lynches in the thread that he deems scummy and sharing tons of opinions on the way. What he decided to do instead is proof that he is playing in an anti-town manner. He votes Fidei right off the bat due to his RNG explanation and proceeds to shape every single post Fidei makes into a mafia read. He never wavers and he sticks with his RNG read throughout the day. I'm not going to spam this post up with blocks of quotes because it is already going to be long enough, but read his filter during the first two cycles. Look at how much focus he puts on this RNG targets and how he is completely oblivious to the rest of the game. Day two is even worse. He puts together a case on FF, his new RNG target, which he can't honestly push with a straight face. This is a guy who he had a town read on before and now because of the RNG he is suddenly going to tunnel him hard all day. I'll focus more on this part below, but he uses his "RNG" excuse to completely ignore the other lynches, most importantly, the rayn lynch on day two. It has been a while since day one so the whole Blazinghand random vote nonsense isn't fresh in everyone's mind, but looking back it is beyond scummy. What type of townie decides that they are going to play in their own little world for the first 144 hours of the game, ignoring the first two lynch cycles completely to push lynches that are completely chosen at random? All for a single shot? You could give me three shots and that still wouldn't be worth it. Like I said, he could have simply voted Fidei and FF and pushed legitimate lynches if he wanted, but he chose to use his roleblock as an excuse to distance himself from the game. No townie would do this. He got away with it for a while, but we shouldn't forget about it simply due to the fact that he starting playing once the LT and chez red checks show up. The Upgrade Conundrum ritoky later tries to justify his RNG nonsense by claiming that it was part of his upgrade. On August 29 2015 08:00 ritoky wrote: yeah i knew my upgrade from the jump. On August 29 2015 07:49 ritoky wrote: were other people's upgrades not explicitly stated to them? that's news to me. The evidence shows that he is lying here. ritoky is the only player in the game to claim to know his upgrade. Every other player that has flipped learned about their upgrade at a later point in time. In fact, the hosts mentioned that the upgrade conditions were going to be sent out to players who failed to meet them so they knew what they were. So that is essentially proof that the upgrades were hidden until night two. ritoky made a mistake here to justify his blatant anti-town claim during the first two cycles and goofed by justifying that he had a reason to do so. It doesn't make sense for 20 different upgrades to work one way, while one other role works a different way. I just don't buy it. The Lynches This is the strongest part of my argument so please read this part carefully. I'm focusing on his behavior during the first two cycles of the game because I think that gives us the biggest clue into revealing his alignment. Day One Throughout the entire day one cycle, ritoky was on Fidei. That is simply not acceptable from a town standpoint. There is a an incredibly highly contested lynch going on. chezinu and rux were going back and forth the entire cycle. It was tied for large portions of the day. At the end of the cycle, it ended at a 7 to 5 count. Avoiding either wagon and voting for a player that has absolutely no chance to get lynched is really anti-town at that point. Now at this point I theorize that that mafia team did not realize that chezinu was the traitor. I won't fault ritoky for attempting to save chezinu on day one, because from ritoky's perspective I bet that he thought it was a town vs town wagon. Mafia love to avoid these by voting elsewhere because it doesn't matter to them who flips and they want their vote elsewhere so they don't look bad when the town player flips. However, what I will fault ritoky for is how he approached the day one lynch. He avoids the single most important talking point during day one, which was ruxxar vs chezinu. He never shares an opinion about chezinu and only brings up ruxxar once, mentioning that he had the largest filter at the time, which is really irrelevant. On August 21 2015 11:17 ritoky wrote: dunno bout dat ruxx lynch doe. the claim blue and fuck off is sketch, if you gotta fuck off you might as well just full claim the role. even vet, if they gonna waste rb + kp on you n1 then that means secure shots + invs + prots + etc. that being said, he didn't really do much scummy imo. he just said a bunch of incoherent stuff. defaulting to RNG or a lurker was probably a superior option. Do you know when he finally got around to talking about how the rux lynch is bad? AFTER HE FLIPPED TOWN. He brings up the blue claim and mentioned that rux "didn't really do much scummy" after the fact. If he felt that way, why didn't he step in prior to the lynch? Why is he holding back his opinion while voting fidei who has a total of two votes? Mafia love to talk about how a lynch was bad after the fact because they didn't play a part in lynching him. What is important here is that he didn't put any effort into saving him either. Day Two Here we have the most important lynch cycle in the game. The mafia PGO is one of the strongest powers they could possibly have at their disposal. I've seen games where a PGO type role has taken out like 5-6 players single handily. Especially in an all blue game where there are so many investigative type roles, the mafia is really going to rely on having rayn take out a couple during the night. This is especially highlighted by the fact that LT tried to suggest players checking rayn on multiple occasions throughout the game. For the mafia to have a decent chance of winning, they needed their PGO to live past day two. Furthermore, it was a contested lynch. There were several different parties that could have been lynched that day. Day 2 Votecount Fecalfeast (2): ritoky, Bill Murray Rels (5): Chezinu, geript, raynpelikoneet, Lord Tolkien, Tubesock Yamato77 (3): ObiWanShinobi, yamato77, Rels Chezinu (1): Breshke The Shining (1): KelsierSC raynpelikoneet (5): Damdred, Tictock, Fidei86, The Shining, JudgeJudy geript (1): Fecalfeast Compliments to our friend ritoky for the colored day two vote count :p There were three different individuals that could have easily been lynched towards the end of the cycle. One was mafia and the other two weren't. There was only five votes on Rels, but at least four of them came from flipped mafia so we know they REALLY, REALLY, didn't want to lynch rayn. It's so rare that you see so many mafia voting together, but it really highlights how important the PGO role is to them at this point. They're willing to stick their neck out for a player like rayn who hardly even has any posts. Now lets look at where ritoky comes in. For the second cycle in a row, he avoids the main bandwagon and votes for a player who simply isn't going to get lynched. There is one rule that always applies to the game of mafia as town. Your vote is your strongest tool. Now two cycles in a row, ritoky has chosen to completely discard his vote, while avoiding the topics that are so vital to discuss. Can you envision a scenario where a town ritoky has no meaningful input on the lynch for two cycles in a row? I can't. At the end of day one, ritoky makes a list post containing his mafia reads. He mentions that ritoky is his NUMBER TWO scum read at that point, behind fidei. This is what he brings up: "rayn - subs in and does balls. not town rayn, maybe cuz sub and not initially in the game but he is giving 0 shits so pressure him until he does or lynch him." Surely he will bring him up again during day two right? He moves off fidei so in theory, rayn should be his number one read. He doesn't even mention rayn again until rayn flipped. This was the guy that ritoky thought was mafia. Yet when it comes to actually lynching rayn, he wants know part of it. What I found really interesting is that at one point TT asked about who would be interested in moving over to rayn. ritoky actually quotes this post and calls TT town for it, but he doesn't even reference rayn in the process. Instead rayn is voting for FecalFeast per his "rng role". But guess what? FECALFEAST WAS ON HIS TOWN LIST. So not only is he passing up the opportunity to push his mafia read in rayn, he is pushing a player he stated was town prior to receive FF as his "rng" target. Day Three I don't have much to say about day three. At this point, LT is already looking really bad so it's pretty irrelevant whether or not ritoky voted him because there was the red check out here. There wasn't a whole lot on LT on day one and two. ritoky listed LT on his town list for the vig claim and suggested that he will re-evaluate later on in the game. Once rayn flips he includes Lt in a process of elimination list and eventually ties him and chezinu together, but I think we all did at that point. The Alignment Check We are at a point in the game where we need to focus on behavioral analysis, not blue roles. This comes up nearly every themed game where mafia wins. If you go back the last twenty large themed games, I bet at some point the host chastises the players for focuses on roles so much, rather than the behavior that makes players mafia. You can't rely on the blue roles to win the game. Mafia is a game of imperfect information. As town, we don't know all the tools that mafia has to work with. We already know that mafia has a godfather and a framer. We don't know if they have a second godfather or framer ability, even if it is one-shot. We don't know if mafia has a busdriver. We don't know if mafia has some type of mirror role. What we do know is that mafia has at least one other role that messes with cop checks because FecalFeast's check did not resolve correctly. Something important to remember is that the framer is alive on night two at the time of the check. Now mafia has two ways they can use the framer. They can either frame a town player to look mafia or they can frame a mafia player two look town. Try putting yourself in mafia's shoes at that point to think about how you would use your role on night two. What is the best case scenario for mafia framing a town player? A cop happens to check them, they come up red and the town player is lynched. That's great, but it's only one town dead. Now what is the best case scenario for a mafia framing a mafia player? The mafia player gets checked a town and is essentially confirmed for the rest of the game. That is how you win a game. More often than not, town will stick with the check because it's the simplest explanation. Think about the swing between a mafia ritoky getting checked as mafia and a mafia ritoky getting checked as town. If he comes up red, the game is essentially over. rayn is dead. tube has a nuking coming his way. LT is in an awful position beyond redeeming. The fourth mafia would really be their only hope. That's why I think it's so likely that the mafia used their godfather to cover, rather than to frame on night two. If ritoky is mafia, I think it is very likely that he would have been the mafia's choice for the cover. He came out looking bad after the rayn lynch so he would need some way to confirm himself, but he is a decent player who can carry the game if he does get checked. I'm not saying that the check is completely invalid and that we should ignore it. What I am saying is that if you look at all the evidence that suggests that ritoky is mafia, a single blue role interaction isn't enough to warrant the assumption that he is town. Behavior is far more important and his behavior points towards him being scum. Even Rels, the guy who checked ritoky had him at the top of his lynch list prior to death. That shows how little faith Rels had in the check. The HTS Kill If you're going to argue that ritoky is town based on him being the target of the framer being so unlikely, you can't ignore the fact that we have a claimed watcher who witnessed only ritoky visiting HTS on her death. Now I am be biased here, but personally I think HTS was a miserable framer target. She was giving opinions and seemed invested in the lynch. I'd say she was in my top two town reads by night one. But that is beside the point. Fidei claimed that ritoky was seen as the only player visiting ritoky on night one. Half the Sky died that night, which means either ritoky had visited her and targeted her with a kp or the godfather happened to carry out the kill. That means there was a 50/50 chance that the godfather did not carry out the kill on HTS, which would mean ritoky did. Keep in mind that I'm not basing my read on ritoky on this alone. Solving the games by blues is not a reliable way to win the game as I mentioned earlier. However, this simply strengthens the case against him. In fact, I'm not even arguing that ritoky didn't roleblock HTS. Mafia roleblock their night hit targets all the time and HTS would have been a good choice as one of the strongest town players. If mafia were going to RB HTS in her death, they wouldn't send the godfather to kill her because that would mean both ritoky and the godfather would visit her, while the other hit would be carried out by a non-godfather. Like I said, this part is just speculation and the strength of the argument lies with the actual behavior above. Some people will argue that it doesn't make sense for ritoky to claim the roleblock on HTS because it will make him look bad. I don't put much merit into this arguement. First off, mafia don't want to lie unless they absolutely need to. If he claims to have not visited HTS and gets outed by a role, he is done for. In fact, that exact scenario could have happened this game with fidei's watcher claim. Think to yourself, what is more important? Losing a bit of town cred that nobody will care about in the long run or taking a gamble by fake claiming an action that will almost certainly get you killed if you ever get caught. The Roleblocker Claim I wouldn't be surprised if ritoky was a roleblocker. That doesn't mean he is a town roleblocker though. Mafia almost certainly have a roleblocker in this setup. The problem is that he hasn't used his ability in any way that benefits town. He hasn't roleblocked any kp. He hasn't roleblocked any meaningful mafia night actions. Instead, he is roleblocking the town watcher and the claimed third party survivor. Think about it. You have a role that can be used to not only block the mafia kp, but also confirm the player who you blocked as mafia because the mafia kp is missing. Would you ever consider roleblocking damdred, the guy who has about the worst chance of carrying out the mafia kp in the game? In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the mafia didn't also have a factional roleblocker ability to use on top of that. In a setup where there are so many blues it almost seems like a necessity. I've seen mafia get two different rbing powers in a ton of games. If I remember correctly, I think one of onegu's previous themed setups even had the factional roleblocker. The Yamato Shot I put a large amount of thought into this part. An argument for why ritoky could be town is "why did he shoot yamato" and "why did he claim the shot". I can only theorize at this part because I don't have complete knowledge of the setup or anything. I think he claimed the shot for similar reasons to claiming the HTS visit. If you shoot a player who looks terrible, no big deal, people will get over it. If you get tracked or watched to a kill and let town assume it was a mafia kp, then you are in hot water. He already claimed in the thread that he had a kp to use, so he had to shoot someone at that point. I'm not going to argue that yamato was a bad shot because I could have seen myself doing the same thing, but that doesn't mean it automatically makes him town. Mafia could have just as easily shot yamato because he looked so anti-town at that point. You may ask, why claim the shot to begin with? Why not keep it hidden and shoot someone better? My best guess is for town cred. If you're taking out the guy who is likely going to be the topic of discussion and the lynch the next day, you come out looking good. ritoky missed out on his chance to earn town cred with the rayn lynch so there is no way he would survive a lynch against someone like Rels, myself, TT, or fidei. This was his best chance at using a confirmible night action to make himself look good. Remember, he didn't know he was shooting the jester. He probably thought he was shooting a trolly town player and was going to come out looking good in the process. "I'm Confirmed!" During the last 48 hours, ritoky has brought up how he is "confirmed" because he launched the nuke on chezinu during day two. At this point, a mafia ritoky needs to cash that nuke in for as much town cred as possible, because if he is the only mafia remaining, he is going to end up in a 2v1 LYLO situation against several other players who are looking rather good at that point. The fact is, mafia almost certainly did not know chezinu was a traitor on day two. Chezinu did not receive his ability to initiate a quicktopic with a player until night two. How else would the mafia team have known chezinu was mafia at that point? I suppose a rolecop or weird other ability that we don't know about, but the simplest answer is that they didn't. Yet here ritoky is calling himself confirmed town numerous times for nuking a player, which mafia didn't know was mafia. There isn't any town cred to be earned here because in fact, he was likely nuking a player he thought was a trolly town. Lynching chezinu isn't going to earn you any town credit either. He was a dead man with or without your claimed roleblock. If you wanted to earn town cred, you should have played the game when it mattered during the first and second cycle. Conclusion ritoky is mafia There is little evidence that supports the idea that ritoky is a town player attempting to solve the game. He uses his RNG role as an excuse to avoid the major discussion topics during the first two cycles. Rather than voting for his RNG target and playing the game normally, he proceeds to tunnel his RNG targets the entire cycle while ignoring the actual lynch and failing to share opinions about the players that are about to be lynched. He attacked the rux lynch after rux had already flipped town. He listed rayn as one of his scum reads, but never mentions him again until after the flip. He claims that he was acting this way because of an upgrade, but his role does not work the same as every other player in the game. A cop check alone is not enough to justify his behavior, especially in a setup with a flipped framer. He was seen as the only player to visit HTS on day one. He brags about how lynching the traitor should confirm him as town when in reality it is meaningless. You may think to yourself that there is a post or role interaction that makes you think ritoky is town, but you need to look at the big picture. I'd be lying if I said I was 100% myself. I'd feel like a complete idiot if I was wrong after spending so much time on this. However, one minor detail here or there doesn't outweigh the fact that he has been playing like mafia all game long. I think the best shot we have at ending this game today is to lynch ritoky. The court has spoken. + Show Spoiler + I know someone is probably going to quote this and type "TL;DR;", but please take the time to read this. I just spent like 3 and a half hours on it. It will probably take you 10 minutes to read through. Don't skim it. Read through every part and please comment on what you think. There is nothing more frustrating than putting together a large case and then having it ignored by everyone else. | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
On August 31 2015 11:34 ritoky wrote: Oh goodie, something to tear to shreads. Go for it. Just make sure to address everything and not cherry pick. I've spent enough time on mafia today though, so I'll catch up with the thread and respond tomorrow afternoon after work. | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
On August 31 2015 13:42 geript wrote: [/QUOTE]Either way, if I lose my power, it's kinda moot. I guess there's a theoretical possibility that someone visited OWS before but idk who that'd be. His role does sound kinda mafia oriented considering the setup but eh. I still want JJ and TT to full claim if they haven't already. I don't really remember what if anything they've claimed. I'm a Mad Hatter. Not sure if TT has revealed more than that pic about his role. Really disappointed that I don't have something that I could put to better use, but it is what it is. Claiming whether I still have my bomb or where it currently may be doesn't have much benefit, so I'll leave it at that. Now on to the ritoky stuff... | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
On August 31 2015 22:48 geript wrote: that's not exactly reassuring JJ meh claiming a role that "reassures" you is not exactly on my to-do list. On August 31 2015 17:15 Tictock wrote: Obi is still floating in null land for me, nothing to truely push me either way on him. I don't like the fact that he waited so long with his nuke, but w/e trying to read alignment out of that is probably too deep in wifom to mean anything. Something about the way he is interacting and posting today has me leaning a little more town on him. Besides, I honestly don't see getting much information out of his lynch. Uhh aren't we long past the point of lynching for information? I mean there is probably only one mafia left. Who cares if the lynch doesn't provide information if the game simply ends? | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
On August 31 2015 11:55 ritoky wrote: Let's begin with the easiest and work our way to the even easier to dispel about this: 1) I am green checked by a confirmed cop in a game that has demonstrated no real inclination of having a framer. In the event you believe there is 1 mafia left, that mafia is in fact a ROLEBLOCKER not a FRAMER: how do we know this? Fidei was ROLEBLOCKED and I did not do it. Even moreso you have to believe that I was framed specifically on N2 in which Rels checked me, which is already an unlikely rabbit hole you're going down. Should we continue or is it already over? Pretty sure it's already over, but let's go for argument's sake. Err I think you refuted this yourself later on, but yeah tube the framer was still alive on night two. I don't really have any more response to this part because it is speculation. I think the framer was likely used as a cover, rather than a frame and I think the other points that I have made outweigh the low odds that the cop happened to check you that night. On August 31 2015 11:55 ritoky wrote: 2) I shot 3p, nuked mafia, lynched 2 of the 3 mafia. Thank you for listing my pro-town achievements thus far this game and giving me no credit for it. You make a big deal out of my day 2 vote, when I am RNG voting for an upgrade so I fail to see any point about that. Day 3 is irrelevant cuz you see I am townie. And about "ritoky never does meaningless stuff for two cycles"; bro go read my games I am useless a lot longer some times. Well no offense, but those pro-town achievements are rather lame. LT had a red check on him. Everyone (except geript who was off in Lalaland) was voting LT so you can't exactly hand out gold stars to everyone. Same thing with chezinu. There was a red check on him and he was obvious mafia at that point. Every single player (lol except our good friend geript) was voting him. You nuked the traitor on day two and I'll give you a thumbs up for that, but like I said, mafia likely didn't know he was mafia on day two, so any town cred is null and void there as well. On August 31 2015 11:55 ritoky wrote: 3) Your entire yamato thing literally says "he shot someone that was good for town, but i think he is mafia thus did it for town cred". You're literally calling me scummy for something you're admitting was town. Naw I'm not calling you scummy there. I'm saying that shooting the troll isn't something that mafia is incapable of doing. It didn't lead my to my mafia verdict, it simply wasn't enough to get me to conclude town. On August 31 2015 11:55 ritoky wrote: 4) I don't know what you're talking about with this 1 person 1 kp stuff. I have played MULTIPLE games where 1 player is capable of delivering all KP, and to think that anyone OTHER THAN THE UNTRACKABLE DUDE was delivering KP prior to his death is plain naive thinking. The vast majority work where 1 player carries out 1 kill each. On August 31 2015 11:55 ritoky wrote: 5) I am confirmed No? On August 31 2015 11:55 ritoky wrote: 6) As for the no evidence of me solving the game, I would like to refer you to me doing vote analysis, PoE, attempting to discern roles, speculating about cult, being generally confused about what is going on, and such from my filter. You obviously missed those posts when you contrived this mess. Coloring the lynch votes can be useful, but it's not like anything new was brought to the table. Pointing out that the rayn voters look good and the non-rayn voters look bad isn't a huge revelation. Sure there may have been a few things, but not enough. On August 31 2015 11:55 ritoky wrote: We are done here, your arguments are all pretty meh other than I roleplayed rather than played day 1 and some of day 2, which is a valid criticism of myself and many others this game. The problem is that is the basis of my case. There is a difference between roleplaying by throwing a gif in each post and roleplaying by RNGing your vote for the first two cycles of the game, tunneling those players to death, and not doing much of interest otherwise. | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
On August 31 2015 13:16 Damdred wrote: that part is true 6 mafia+traitor +jester seems a bit weird but there are a ton of cops. This math doesn't add up....rayn, tube, and LT have flipped mafia, chez has flipped traitor. If it were 6 mafia + traitor + jester that would mean there are 3 mafia alive. The scenarios we need to worry about are either: 4 mafia + traitor + jester (1 mafia remaining) or 5 mafia + traitor + jester (2 mafia remaining) I'm kinda thinking the setup is 4 mafia + traitor + jester, mostly because I would really struggle to point out two mafia, although onegu's previous 21 (22?) player blue setup had six mafia so it is not out of the question. | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
On August 31 2015 15:00 geript wrote: Looking at the votes, the most notable IMO is TT's d1 vote. For playing as well as he has, he ended up throwing away his vote on a random person. That's kinda incongruous with the rest of his play. Why does this argument apply to TT, but not ritoky? ritoky did this two cycles in a row. First with fidei who had only two votes and then with FF who had only two votes. Take a look at this case against FF. He essentially posts a bunch of quotes that make FecalFeast look town, then posts a series of quotes where he could possibly be mafia, and states that he should be considered for a vote. Later on in the day he eventually posts FF as town in his list post, but stays on him. On August 23 2015 13:05 ritoky wrote: rayn - subs in and does balls. not town rayn, maybe cuz sub and not initially in the game but he is giving 0 shits so pressure him until he does or lynch him. In the same post he calls rayn mafia. Yet rather than push his mafia read, he never brings him up again, despite quoting a post that essentially asks "who wants to switch over to rayn?" and instead keeps his vote on a player he doesn't even think is mafia during the most important cycle in the game. All for this "upgrade"? On August 31 2015 13:04 geript wrote: So I'm guessing it's 1 mafia and 1-2 3P, kinda depends. Ritoky greencheck makes him 99% town. Damdred is essentially 3p. My greencheck makes me 99% town. Could you explain where you came up with 99% for ritoky's green check? As I explained earlier in my large post, mafia almost certainly benefits from using their framer as a cover rather than a frame. Do you disagree with this analysis? So say mafia decides to frame one of their members from the check. Here are the players that are alive at that point. The Shining Rels Fidei86 Yamato77 Breshke geript Damdred JudgeJudy ObiWanShinobi Ritoky Tictock Tubesock Fecalfeastt Lord Tolkien Chezinu Beneather KelsierSC You can eliminate players that we have confirmed as non-mafia because like I said, there is a very high likleyhood that there are using the cover: Fidei86 geript Damdred JudgeJudy ObiWanShinobi Ritoky Tictock Tubesock Lord Tolkien Chezinu We can also eliminate chezinu because mafia likely isn't aware that he is the traitor. We can also eliminate tube because he is already covered by his godfather passive. If you are town you can also eliminate yourself (I've removed JJ in this example, anyone else would remove themselves). I doubt they would frame damdred as town if he is indeed third party. You can decide for yourself whether or not you want to eliminate him from the possible mafia list. Since geript and ritoky was checked on the same night, you can eliminate one of the two since the framer can't frame both at once. I've chosen to eliminate geript because I think it is more likely he is town. Finally, you can eliminate any players in the group that you think are almost certainly town. I'm still town reading fidei and TT pretty strongly so I'm going to remove them. If you want to play it safe, you can leave those in. Group A: Lord Tolkien Group B: ObiWanShinobi Ritoky We know there is 1 mafia in group A. Now lets say there is 1 mafia in group B . Suppose the framer flips a coin between framing the unflipped mafia or the flipped one. If it lands heads they frame LT, if it lands tails, they frame the mafia in group B. Now we also know that ritoky was watched at the HTS kill which is a 50/50 chance of the godfather carrying out a kill. In essence, those two coinflips cancel themselves out. So you're left with a 50/50 within group B, which is far closer than the 99% you suggest. Even if you frame completely at random it isn't 99%. You can apply a different type of analysis (like making assumptions that mafia wouldn't frame the same guy they are shooting) and the pool still ends up rather small. I know there are a lot of assumptions in this thinking, but again. I'm not using this to prove that ritoky was framed. I'm simply saying that the other evidence is strong enough that a cop check like this doesn't automatically eliminate him from consideration. At some point in a themed game you need to rely on behavioral analysis rather than blue roles. | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
On September 01 2015 05:19 ritoky wrote: @JJ you believe all of this? If so, I don't really know what to say to you. You're living in the world of 1% rather than the world of 99%. The entire premise of what you're saying is that the game mechanically doesn't function the way in which most mafia games function and that a green check was framed on the night he happened to be investigated. If that is where you want your head to be I can't help you this game or you're not town. The confluence of events you're believing is so tinfoil. The "99%" is a number made up on the spot. Even if tube decided to frame someone at random, excluding himself and his shot, it's going to come out much higher that that. I've already explained where I think the pool of framer targets was by eliminating certain players and that the odds that you were selected is somewhere between 25%-50%. I admit that this means that the check is legit more often than not, but that is not the only factor my read is based on. The behavioral stuff suggests that you were mafia and relying on a blue role to determine your alignment was town didn't outweigh the other points. There is essentially a coin flip that says you were framed on night two and a coin flip that says you killed HTS on night one. They cancel themselves out in my mind so I'm sticking with the behavioral stuff. I don't doubt that tube carried out an untrackable kill on night one, but there were two kills. I'm saying there is a 50% chance he killed HTS and a 50% chance he killed wave. Like I said, I'm eliminating the blue stuff completely. On day one you pushed fidei all cycle long as part of your role, even though you didn't need to. On day two, you pushed FF via RNG admitted that rayn was probably mafia, yet your vote remained on FF and you didn't bring him up again. You say your upgrade worked in a way that you had to vote these players, but everyone else has a role that works differently and even if that role is real, there is no way that giving up your vote for the first two days is worth it. I'm obviously not going to be able to convince you that you're mafia. Either you aren't or you will deny it to the end. I'm mostly hoping to hear from others. Obi says he likes the case, but hasn't shared what he likes or dislikes. TT agrees as well but hasn't posted much this cycle. I have no idea where Fidei is at. The cycle is half over so we really need to hear from everyone at this point. :/ | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
On September 01 2015 06:12 ritoky wrote: 2) mechanics that don't make sense -> most games i have played and a past onegu game have allowed multiple kp to be delivered by a solitary player so you're believing this game is different from others. But that's not true. I checked. In Ippo, Holyflare was the godfather who happened to be untrackable, but three different players from the mafia team had to carry out the kp to three different individuals. Sure, HF could shoot a single player for "12KP", but that's only because Ippo had a HP based system that doesn't translate to this game. What other onegu game are you referring to? On September 01 2015 06:12 ritoky wrote: 5) since day 2 has ended ritoky has done nothing but be town in every way possible including being green checked, shooting a 3p lurker and outting to dunk a mafia, but give him 0 credit and only focus on first 2 days. Well like I said, LT and chezinu had red checks on them. If you get credit for those lynches, then everyone does (except geript). I liked the yamato shot. I'll give you that. But again, I don't see it out of the question for a mafia player to shoot a non-mafia yamato. On September 01 2015 06:32 ritoky wrote: @JJ who are your bombs on? Forgive me for not informing the player who I think is mafia the answer to that | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
On September 01 2015 06:58 ritoky wrote: I also checked, in ippo HF delivered 2 kp on the final night and most nights of the game. I am sitting here asking about your bombs because you have potential auto if you have a bomb on OWS and me. I have a PoE of you, OWS, and TT. Lynching you would kill 2 of the 3 people in my PoE and both of the ones in yours. If the game doesn't end then town lynches TT and wins. Well HF was a vig so that's a separate role. I'm referring to mafia kp. HF wouldn't have been allowed to shoot player A with 6 mafia kp and player B with 6 mafia kp. | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
On September 01 2015 07:27 Damdred wrote: The mafia kp in ippo was dividable but all of them could be carried by one person if desired Yes, one person could carry all 30 to a single target based on the description in the mafia qt, but could HF have carried 12 to one player , 12 to a second player, and 6 to a third player? Based on the description, it doesn't seem like it, unless you found something that I'm missing. | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
On September 01 2015 08:30 Tictock wrote: Also @JJ I'm wondering why you think geript is more likely town than rit. I mean I get your case on rit, but there seems to be a lot more solid reasons to think Rit is possibly town than geript who basically just has the greencheck. geript has some pretty strong opinions throughout the game which I have liked. I found his chez comments sheep worthy on day one and even though mafia probably wouldn't have known chezinu was the traitor, the logic was sound which shows he was scum hunting. Plus, ritoky has a claimed roleblock on him last night. That means that either ritoky is lying and is scum buddies with geript, which seems unlikely or there is a second mafia alive that is carrying out kp so it wouldn't make sense to lynch geript anyways. You haven't exactly commented on my case aside from stating that it is good. What do you like about it, what don't you like? It's really frustrating to put in 4 hours of my time on that only to have fidei say "I agree" and disappear, you to say "I agree", but lets lynch obi, and for obi to agree any never really say anything. :/ Back to obi, you said you weren't sure about lynching him because it wouldn't give us any information. Why is information relevant at the point in the game where it likely ends if he flips mafia? On September 01 2015 10:21 Tictock wrote: JJ is an interesting person to consider lynching. Looking back at the way D2 ended it seems even more off to me the way JJ switched onto rayn. The fact that he had no thread presence at all that EoD yet jumped on rayn when he was pretty much for sure getting lynched (nobody could know Rels would swap to Yam) yet had time to find that gif actually looks really bad to me now that I've thought about it more in depth. Other than hand though JJ has been pretty towny. My lack of thread presence at the deadline wasn't by choice I assure you. Unfortunately I'm at work at that time and to be honest, I'm lucky that I managed to sneak out of a meeting in time to even make it. Look at that on the flip side. I didn't need to show up at that point. I wasn't in the thread so as mafia I could have simply just never moved my vote and nobody would have been the wiser that I was actually around. As for the gif, that takes about 15 seconds. Just type "finger cross gif" in google and bam you've got one You say that rayn was pretty much for sure getting lynched, but remember the vote was 5-5 before the Rels unvote. With the rate that votes were coming in it was incredibly unclear who would have had the tiebreaker at that point. Tube showed up out of nowhere to try to hammer rels. Out of the five votes on Rels, four were from mafia. They were going all in to save rayn the pgo. My vote ensured that there was no tiebreaker because I hammered rayn. In what world does four mafia all vote one way, only to have the fifth mafia show up and ruin all their plans, not only killing off the pgo, but making the remaining players look absolutely terrible. While I couldn't have predicted Rels would swap to Yam, I could have reacted to it by following him. The vote was cast at the start of :59 so I had most of that minute to decide. I saw the yamato anti-nuke and the self vote, I did a quick count and realized my vote back to yam would lynch Rels who I thought was town so I stayed. It's kind of silly that you say I've been pretty towny and then pick out the towniest thing I've done all game as the one detractor. On September 01 2015 09:01 Tictock wrote: Why would you claim this? Like it was pretty unlikely that you were going to be lynched, and now it's pretty unlikely that your going to be NK'd. Seems like claiming nullifies any potential benefit of your role whole also providing a good excuse to survive. Maybe I'm just not familiar with how MH's work. Is it possible to lose your bomb if your current target dies? It seems like we're at the point where everyone should roleclaim. I didn't reveal my bomb location so mafia is still in the dark with that respect. Yes, I lose my bomb if my target is lynched. I get it returned if they are shot. I don't exactly need an excuse to survive when the game is likely over today or the next day or two loll. We have a claimed watcher, a claimed roleblocker with a green check, and another claimed green check. XD On August 31 2015 10:33 ritoky wrote: eh i looked at TT in the voting thread and i should probably read his filter. votes all over the place on d2, swaying more than pretty much any1 else. votes later on LT. doesn't outright vote chez, votes me with enthusiasm, immediately accepts rels claim of green check and goes to chez, now doesn't like the green check. ugh i guess i really need to buckle down and read all 3 of these filters and solve this game.... Anyone notice how this guy is totally not solving the game this cycle? :/ | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
On August 31 2015 11:45 ObiWanShinobi wrote: I'm listening. (Btw, that was a very entertaining case to read. There were a bunch of bits that I liked but we'll see how this plays out.) You have time to comment now obi? | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
On August 31 2015 10:54 ritoky wrote: honestly, after reading his filter and looking at his voting....it will be very hard for me to lynch judge...i would put judge behind geript in my town list which is like ritoky geript judge fid the swap to rayn after tube had already moved....so compelling....ugh. maybe i will just RB judge tonight to resolve his alignment cuz i don't see a compelling reason to lynch him... which leaves me @ OWS and TT....or the good ole lynch the survivor, try to block a kp, and see who they kill sending us potentially to lylo if 2 strat....but fuck that strat. On September 01 2015 14:05 ritoky wrote: here's my last bit of shit until i come back to vote: JJ - wrong, pushing wrong for bad and falsified reasons, voted at 59 on rayn wagon but found gif in time; is wrong, what is end game when i flip town if mafia? not trying to get read on anyone else, claimed MH aka don't lynch me bro role How did you go from this to this? Is it just the case on you? The gif thing is meaningless. I don't see why that matters. I showed up to vote rayn when it was 5 to 5 and was going to come down to a tiebreaker, seconds after tube just showed up to try to hammer rels. I remained on rayn when Rels unvoted to ensure rayn stayed lynched. As for the hatter, it shouldn't deter you at all. If you think I'm mafia then you lynch me. If you think I'm town then you don't lynch me. Being a MH shouldn't impact your decision at all. I am trying to read other people. I've read through obi's filter like five times by now. That's painful to do -_- I'm honestly putting effort into trying to figure out this game. I spent four hours on the case against you. I'm sorry if I'm wrong, but after seeing kel flip green and then have the nerve to call us all retarded, it made me really angry. Am I positive that you're mafia? Not really....but at least nobody can say I didn't try. obi totally ditching me kinda strikes a nerve. He was talking about he was looking through filters, yet comes up with nothing. He leaves himself open for both the ritoky lynch and TT lynch. Assuming one mafia remaining, right now I'd put you at 65% mafia, obi 25%, TT and damdred 5% each and, geript and fidei less than 1%. | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
On September 01 2015 14:13 geript wrote: I'm just curious. But like none of us have take a look at fido at all. Is that just because the watcher claim? Watcher claim, was on the correct side of the rayn lynch, active throughout the entire game (with the exception of today). Has a couple of posts that kinda scream towny and are well thought out. | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
On September 01 2015 14:28 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Do you not enjoy reading my filters? Sometimes I ogle my own filters because I adore myself. On September 01 2015 14:30 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Oh btw, I'm totally leaving myself open to lynch either ritoky or TT. Just in case you thought it was only implied. Do you have a personal preference or will you go with the flow and vote with the majority? | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
On September 01 2015 21:55 ObiWanShinobi wrote: @JJ: Yeah, I'm probably just going to vote with the majority. I can accept the fact that someone here probably knows more than I do because I haven't put the effort in to find the best lynch myself. lol lets say its 3-3 and comes down to ObiWanShinobi, town's only hope. Who are you voting for? On September 01 2015 15:07 Tictock wrote: The reason I say I feel like his lynch isn't too informative is because there is less contention there. It's the mechanical easy play, (Everyone not on Rayn wagon - green checks = Obi) and it will still be there tomorrow so I'm inclined to leave him alone another day. I'm still not sure I understand what you are saying here. Could you rephrase it in some way? On September 01 2015 20:40 Fidei86 wrote: Now Damdred can be explained away - as a confirmed third party Do we have a check on Damdred that 100% confirms him as third party or is this based on taking the survivor claim at face value and agreeing that he has been rather pro-town this game? All I recall is LT's claimed check and you receiving a message about the brown. On September 01 2015 20:40 Fidei86 wrote: But Chez? Chez wasn't in the mafia QT, as far as we know, so if they didn't know Chez was a traitor, RBing him without knowing his role was super dangerous. Like, if Chez flips town (and there's nothing to say rit would have known he wouldn't) then we auto lynch rit. On August 31 2015 01:48 JudgeJudy wrote: Well chez received his mason power on n2 from his upgrade so we know he couldn't have used that power on n1. ritoky claims to have roleblocked him on n2 so if he is town, we know he couldn't have used that power on n2. That leaves three scenarios where chez could have came in contact with the scum team. 1) chez successfully checked a scum on n3 and they became masons. 2) Ritoky did not roleblock chez on n2, they came in contact on night two, and ritoky claimed the roleblock after learning chez was the traitor. 3) geript used his mason power with chez and they connected that way. I don't think scenario 3 makes a ton of sense because even if geript were mafia, that would mean he would need to claim mafia to chez at a point where he didn't necessarily know chez's alignment. I don't think that's worth the risk. Scenario two is possible, but lying when there isn't a huge deal to gain at that point also doesn't seem worth the risk. I think scenario one is almost a certainty. Nobody claimed that they received a mason quicktopic from chezinu. Here are the scenarios that I could come up with: 1) chez chose never to use his role 2) chez used his role on a player that died night three and the mason was never initiated 3) chez masoned damdred and damdred chose not to reveal things because he has no reason to 4) chez masoned a mafia player, made contact and the mason was never claimed I'm going to eliminate 1 and 2 right off the bat because they don't make a ton of sense. I can't eliminate 3, but if chez is looking for mafia players, he likely doesn't think the third party claimer is mafia. Perhaps he wanted to gain information regarding whether damdred was a non-survivor role, but he never passed that information on to mafia prior to his death in the thread if they weren't in contact otherwise. That leaves scenario 4, which I think is the most likely. He contacted mafia on night three since a town player would have claimed it. . Here is my analysis that chezinu did indeed make contact with the mafia team at some point. Not sure if this answers what you are looking for, but it is based on the assumption that no town player ever claimed the receiving the mason qt from chezinu, which means he either didn't use his ability which doesn't make a lot of sense or he sucessfully contacted mafia. | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
On September 01 2015 23:11 Fidei86 wrote: I think Rels checked Damdred n1 and got the 3P result. Ah yes, you're right. On September 01 2015 22:52 JudgeJudy wrote: lol lets say its 3-3 and comes down to ObiWanShinobi, town's only hope. Who are you voting for? I'm still not sure I understand what you are saying here. Could you rephrase it in some way? Do we have a check on Damdred that 100% confirms him as third party or is this based on taking the survivor claim at face value and agreeing that he has been rather pro-town this game? All I recall is LT's claimed check and you receiving a message about the brown. Here is my analysis that chezinu did indeed make contact with the mafia team at some point. Not sure if this answers what you are looking for, but it is based on the assumption that no town player ever claimed the receiving the mason qt from chezinu, which means he either didn't use his ability which doesn't make a lot of sense or he sucessfully contacted mafia. That post is a bit outdated because it was written at a point where I was thinking ritoky was a town roleblocker, but yeah it would need to be the scenario 2 (the first scenario 2). | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
On September 02 2015 00:11 Fidei86 wrote: @JJ I need an "in the tank" gif stat. Certainly, sir. We have a variety of fine gifs for selection. First off, we have a personalized gif with the proud Union Jack on display: Or maybe you're looking for a more humorous gif? Or perhaps you're looking to make a profound political statement? If you're looking for a cool action gif, then I have just the one for you: And of course, no selection would be complete without the ever popular cat gif: As always, it's a pleasure to be of service. | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
On September 02 2015 00:49 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Also I'd shoot Tt. What made you come to that decision? | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
Can someone highlight the case against TT because I haven't really seen a good one yet aside from a point here or there or a general "well somebody has to be scum so I guess it may be him" read. On August 24 2015 05:52 Tictock wrote: How about we all switch to rayn? Rels is being pushed too easily imo, plus he's doing stuff. Rayn is suddenly sheeping geript who he said was mafia last night and hasn't given anything solid for his scumread on rels. He was part of the rayn swap and he was even one of the first people to bring it up. If four mafia are on Rels with tube showing up at the last second to hammer, what exactly is the play here? For TT to totally make the others look terrible, sacrifice the rest of the team, and hope he makes it to end game by himself? It seems a lot easier just to go along with the yamato lynch or whatever he finds interesting. There is evidence in his filter that he is looking back to try to understand stuff. Is there something else that I am overlooking? Like what makes him look better than ritoky? Heck, I'd lynch obi before TT at the moment. | ||
JudgeJudy
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On September 02 2015 02:44 geript wrote: @jJ part of it is how his townplay in previous games I would classify as rudimentary. Like in XIII I think it was he was scum reading Rayn for being too aggressive. Basically a lot of his reads when he's town come almost primarily from types of reads you see from newer players. But this game his reads are far more sophisticated. Like instead of being only partly right post D2, he's solely been picking the 'right' wagons. His posts are kinda generic instead of pretty heavily opinionated; which is more similar to his scum game. Plus, it looks very much like he's realized he can Poe-wise allow both ritoky and I to be confirmed town; but still shifts towards other targets while keeping ritoky open as that stance becomes untenable. Like there's no one sure fire thing. It's just a bunch of little stuff. Well to be fair, those were newbie games and he was a newer player at that point. I guess I see what you're saying with the mafia game being more structured, rather than summaries of events/quotes like I see in the first few. Personally I'm not very familiar with how TT plays in general and I'm not a big meta guy to begin with, however reading through the Holy Guardians game that you linked, one thing I noticed in his mafia game was that he was willing to give null or scum reads on his buddies, but when push comes to shove, he voted for the mislynch. On June 14 2015 05:59 GlowingBear wrote: Day 4 Vote Count Scott (3): NydusHerMain(4): Damdred, Scott, VisceraEyes, Onegu On June 17 2015 05:04 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Day 5 Vote Count Scott31337 (3): Tictock, VisceraEyes, milo109 milo109 (2): Scott31337, Onegu Twice this happened where the lynch was decided by a single vote and on both occasions he went after the town player rather than bussing his mafia buddy for cred. On day four it was a losing battle where he was on the wrong side of a mafia lynch, yet his vote didn't budge. It seems like the better play there would have been to bus and win the game on day 5. The sample size for his mafia games is small, but does a day two bus of rayn seem like something that lines up with his general behavior as mafia because it doesn't seem like it. | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
On September 02 2015 04:09 geript wrote: A point in your favor there is that ritoky's RB choices are pretty goddamn awful (HTS, Chez, Me, Damdred). That point is really important though. As a town roleblocker, you've got an incredibly powerful role, you're essentially a cop plus a medic because you can block the mafia kp and then when the kp never shows up, you can lynch the guy you blocked. He is roleblocking the towny HTS, the claimed survivor who almost certainly isn't carrying out the mafia kp, and yourself, the guy who already has a green check on him. Like the only good claimed rb was chez. He thought you of all people was the guy most likely to carry out the mafia kp last night? All today he attacks me for arguing against the "99%" confirmed town, yet here he is roleblocking another "99%" confirmed town to try to stop the mafia kp. There is a reason he has to do this though. He already claimed rb so he has to claim targeting someone, yet he can't block someone like me, obi or TT because that would mean his lynch pool is reduced by one each time he confirms another player. Doesn't this make sense to you? | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
On September 02 2015 04:58 geript wrote: Do your bomb(s) go off you get lynched JJ? Yessir. | ||
JudgeJudy
188 Posts
On September 02 2015 05:59 ritoky wrote: oh, it's still not decided. it's pretty simple everyone. i am green checked. the only real claim against my green check is that i was framed which is plain unlikely, mostly because framing defensively as mafia is pretty meh in general. there's some other stupid shit about me being the only person to visit hts, but it was disproven cuz multiple kp can be carried by an individual aka the untrackable dude. the simple reality of this game is that mafia have to ml me today or they are going to lose. they cannot nk me because there are not enough mls in the game outside of me being in the list for them to win. they also must ml me asap because as the #s dwindle i get a better shot at blocking their kp, confirming my alignment, and finding mafia 100% and probably ending the game. it really is as simple as that. Why did you RB damdred on n3 and geript on n4, rather than a mafia read? | ||
JudgeJudy
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On September 02 2015 06:11 Damdred wrote: That was the same night ff checked lt and his check was messed with but he knew hew avant rb because his other check went through. But FF checked LT and got no result. If LT were framed, he would have shown up as green, wouldn't he? Every framer I've ever seen makes the player return the opposite result. On September 02 2015 06:12 ritoky wrote: n3 cult paranoia n4 geript cuz bunch of green checks got rescinded and i wanted to conf him as town But FecalFeast still had his green check on geript and flipped day four. You felt that there was a higher chance that geript was framed and that you could stop his kp than blocking me, JJ, or obi was mafia? Like who cares if a check was rescinded. You only need 1 check from a flipped cop. | ||
JudgeJudy
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On September 02 2015 06:22 Tictock wrote: What are you talking about? I think your mis-remembering things. Tube never got his upgrade. Yeah I think you need to re-read damdred. He was a framer whose frame could be upgraded to also add in untraceable and uncheckable, which he never achieved. | ||
JudgeJudy
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I think you should claim too TT for what it is worth. | ||
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On September 02 2015 06:56 Tictock wrote: Ok, I didn't want to do this, but I'll claim. I am God Freewill is an illusion. We are lynching ritoky today. lol going to break my heart if my anger management therapist betrayed me | ||
JudgeJudy
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Sigh I just want this game to be over to be honest. Sorry ritoky, I guess :/ | ||
JudgeJudy
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On September 02 2015 07:17 Damdred wrote: So if we have two mafia 3 v 2 v 1 Nk Game is over just because One mafia 4 v 1 v 1 Nk 3 v 1 v 1 Ml Game over because reasons If it's 3 v 1 v 1 and TT is actually mafia won't his double vote and vote rigger simply mean he has control of the lynch tomorrow? I guess that also means that if TT is town and he lives, mafia have to shoot him or he gets to choose tomorrow too? Also, what "reasons"? You saying that if it was 1 v 1 v 1 you would just end the game by siding with mafia? | ||
JudgeJudy
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On September 02 2015 08:49 ObiWanShinobi wrote: No, I'm claiming vanillizer. I never full claimed my role. Who have you used it on so far or is it 1-shot? | ||
JudgeJudy
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On September 02 2015 09:12 ObiWanShinobi wrote: I have no idea how to use it. I put no thought into it because it sounded hilariously anti town so I left it alone. I guess I could use it now but it probably only affects the night sequence afterwards, which is not very useful. Why didn't you use it on KSC? Like you nuked the guy so you thought he was most likely to mafia. Yet you thought it would be anti-town to strip him of his power that night? On September 02 2015 08:56 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Oh no it's totally multishot. It lasts for a day and a night sequence. The only person I've ever used it on was yamato. Also, I assume you used your power on yamato night 2 after he used his anti-nuke on chez? | ||
JudgeJudy
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On September 02 2015 09:12 ObiWanShinobi wrote: I guess I could use it now but it probably only affects the night sequence afterwards, which is not very useful. On September 02 2015 09:18 ObiWanShinobi wrote: The Rb wouldn't. I'm a bit confused here. Does your action turn them vanilla the night you use it or the night afterwards? | ||
JudgeJudy
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Damdred, what's your full role? I assume you're not just a vanilla survivor right? You've pushed everyone else to claim so I don't see a reason why your actions should remain a secret. | ||
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@TT, what made you decide not to use your role on day two to ensure that rayn was lynched considering the vote came down to a 5-5 tiebreaker? Did you consider it or were you not confident enough on the shenanigans at the time? In theory, you could have made it 7-4 with the double vote and politician. I mean doesn't it make sense to use your power every cycle to swing the vote in your favor? | ||
JudgeJudy
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On September 02 2015 23:20 Damdred wrote: It is a confirmed horrible lynch especially when I'm town siding lol. Anyone who plays onegu games knows how he handles third partys shrug. I'm just vanilla. A vanilla player that just happens to cause fidei to receive messages from the host? | ||
JudgeJudy
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On September 02 2015 23:30 Damdred wrote: You aren't reading are you? Since I've clearly explained my upgrade a few times Yeah I forgot that it was upgrade related. You may have answered this as well, but how did you know KSC shot geript night one? Lucky guess? | ||
JudgeJudy
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On September 02 2015 23:36 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Jj is my current pick for scum. Jj, who's mafia? Either you or TT it seems. Haven't quite decided yet | ||
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On September 02 2015 23:44 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Alright, let me know where you stand and why when you can. Will do! | ||
JudgeJudy
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On September 03 2015 00:31 Tictock wrote: @JJ My ability only allows me to manipulate votes on myself. Yesturday was literally my first option to use it. Hmm okay, I guess that explains the ritoky vote switching from you to him, but how about your vote being counted twice in the vote count? | ||
JudgeJudy
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On September 03 2015 00:50 Fidei86 wrote: No, it's not. Damdred claimed after the ritoky ML that town would lose if it got to LYLO with him in it. After tonight we'll be at 3 town, 1 3P and 1 mafia. So effectively, tomorrow is LYLO for us. Each townie has to try and figure out which of the other 3 townies is mafia. Damdred has to choose between 4 townies. The odds of a ML are high. If we lynch Damdred, we go to true LYLO with 2 town 1 mafia. It should be a lot easier for town to figure it out. It also eradicates the possibility that Damdred might have a win con that is zero sum with town. This only makes sense now that Damdred has claimed the game ends at LYLO with him in it, and if there is only one mafia. But Damdred has already said that if there's two mafia, town lose after tonight ANYWAY, so we can rule that out. That's my reasoning, anyway. At the same time, we would also lose the game if mafia has been withholding a nuke or something. Rather than 2 town and 1 mafia, it could be 1 town and 1 mafia and game over. I think we need to try to take out the mafia tomorrow instead. The only reason to lynch damdred would be if he is some type of non-survivor third party role like a serial killer, arsonist, or serial poisoner. If he is indeed one of those roles, I think that means the mafia likely only has 4 players and were wiped out with the chezinu kill. I haven't put a lot of thought into this scenario to see if it adds up, but my gut tells me not to lynch damdred. | ||
JudgeJudy
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On September 03 2015 01:09 Fidei86 wrote: I hadn't considered the possibility of further nukes. That does change things around a fair bit. But I do want to know why Damdred has changed his tune on whether or not we should go to LYLO. "Reasons" is not enough of an answer. Agreed. | ||
JudgeJudy
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After thinking about this a bit more, if you are actually town obi, then the play here would be to use your role on TT. With the night hit, there will be six players remaining. Based on yesterday's lynch TT has his double vote and his vote steal which means TT has three votes. That means TT controls 3/6 votes which is enough to secure majority first and lynch whoever he chooses. If he is town, then no big deal, but if he is mafia then game over. I still haven't decided who I think is more likely scum since I still want to read through both of you again (I'll probably end up rereading the whole game since its likely lylo with damdred around). If you think I'm likely mafia and want to use my role on me, then so be it (let me know if you have any questions that could change your mind), but taking away the vote rigging is the safer play. | ||
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On September 03 2015 02:57 geript wrote: You shitheads/mafia wanted to lynch ritoky A FUCKING GREENCHECK over him yesterday. I'm putting my foot down. No. I wasn't part of the "keep Damdred around" crowd, but I'm not going to let you fuck shit up even more. You're going to listen to me. You're going to lynch the fuck out of TicTock tomorrow. Period. You don't get to ride in on your high horse and order us around. We have all messed up at some point this game. You can share your opinion about who to lynch tomorrow, but I take offense to the name calling. I don't deserve that. | ||
JudgeJudy
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On September 03 2015 03:12 Fidei86 wrote: @JJ this game seems to have brought out the absolute worst in people. From a Mafia perspective, it's been awesome, but some of the attitudes have been utterly cancerous. meh people get frustrated. It's just annoying to be belittled when you're actually putting effort in. Do you lean one way or the other with the lynch tomorrow? | ||
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gg fidei, been a pleasure Putting my vote on TT just in case obi's role didn't go through for the scenario where TT is mafia and controls 3 votes. Still reading through some stuff before I decide for real though. | ||
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On September 02 2015 12:13 geript wrote: Oh and TT. I have a special surprise for you... Care to explain this one? | ||
JudgeJudy
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On September 03 2015 08:12 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Does that confirm me as town or how does that work exactly? I'm not sure to be honest. I suppose he probably would have watched geript, who likely had no visitors. Would a no result show up as anything? Dunno how that works. TT can you confirm you lost your role? | ||
JudgeJudy
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TT could you also explain your thought process behind not revealing your role earlier in the cycle? If mafia only has one to two people left at that point then wouldn't they not have control of the lynch anyways? On August 25 2015 07:27 Tictock wrote: So Town circle for me is: Rels Fidei86 Breshke geript Damdred JudgeJudy KelsierSC On September 02 2015 08:25 Tictock wrote: I failed my upgrade, needed to townread 7 people correctly in one post. Doesn't this mean you would have received your upgrade as claimed? There are 7 people there... | ||
JudgeJudy
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derp ignore my second question, jumped the gun. Forgot that upgrades would have came by the 25th. | ||
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On September 03 2015 10:12 ObiWanShinobi wrote: But I'm still going to lynch both of you anyway. Should be fine. One thing I will say is weird is that TT's claimed upgrade required him to "correctly" identify 7 town reads, rather than simply having 7 town reads. All the other upgrades were simply role playing things that match the player's character, but this one is like a pseudo mass alignment check. | ||
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A few questions for you obi for things that came up as I was looking through your filter, if you don't mind responding when you have a chance. What was your upgrade condition and did you achieve it? On August 21 2015 06:54 ObiWanShinobi wrote: I'm perfectly happy with killing rux. If he's actually blue somehow, oh well. Does this infer that you didn't think rux was blue after his claim? It seems weird that you would make that clarification when you knowingly joined a theme game.]. On August 23 2015 11:03 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Yeah, mark that as "might." He's just not active enough for my tastes. I liked most of the few posts that he had, Which posts of rayn did you like at the time you made this post? Looking at what he had said by that point, there were only a couple short posts, a 30 sec read that geript was mafia without explaining, rels was mafia but he was going to post about it later, and that yamato was town, which conflicted with your views at the time. On August 31 2015 11:45 ObiWanShinobi wrote: I'm listening. (Btw, that was a very entertaining case to read. There were a bunch of bits that I liked but we'll see how this plays out.) On September 01 2015 13:40 ObiWanShinobi wrote: I'm aware I haven't really responded to JJ. Long story short is that I thought the bits on ritoky's actions after the day 1 lynch and possibly him avoiding rayn during lynch. I'd give more details but I'm tired and I don't know what else I'd elaborate on. Technically he's still on my lynch list but I'm at a loss as to who else I should lynch, aside from possibly TT. What made you decide that TT was a better lynch than ritoky yesterday? You said you liked my case and was going to see how it plays out, You then pointed out what you liked about the case.....but followed with "technically he's still on my lynch list" as if you wanted to vote elsewhere and list TT as the alternative. At one people you said you planned to sheep someone because you hadn't put the effort into finding the best lynch yourself. What made you sheep someone else rather than my case? On September 03 2015 11:14 ObiWanShinobi wrote: No, damdred claimed on the 21st and that list was on the 25th. So he put damdred in his townlist, because...Bad? The fuck lol. Well the list is kinda irrelevant because he had to complete his upgrade by night two which had passed by that point. | ||
JudgeJudy
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On September 03 2015 11:49 ObiWanShinobi wrote: I posted my Tt reasoning during my work hours. I wasn't really confident in it but whatever I suppose. Mind quoting what you are referring to here? | ||
JudgeJudy
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This gif isn't very relevant, but it's cute so it can stay. On September 03 2015 11:49 ObiWanShinobi wrote: My upgrade condition was to claim vt really really early in the game. I took care of it simply because I was roleplaying who I got but dropped it pretty quickly. I got my upgrade and I was like "oh, neato." So your upgrade was the part that vanillizes someone if they visit you that geript triggered and your role you started with was the targeted vanilla role, right? On August 28 2015 23:28 JudgeJudy wrote: I've kinda had obi on my null-town list most of the game from when I compared his filter to the database filters earlier on. At some point in the game, someone (I think it might have been you Rels) brought up how it seemed obi was mafia because the anger he displayed when people shared suspicion of him was way overboard. It was assumed that the anger must be fake since that is something mafia typically do when they are getting pushed. However, obi tends to sometimes get emotional when he is being pushed for reasons that he doesn't see as valid. For instance, here in Hearthstone Mafia (quotes above), then entire town is hammering him for a mislynch and he gets all worked up and he was town that game. That kinda seemed similar to what we saw here earlier. As mafia, the general trend that I found skimming through his games was that he typically has an attitude of "I can't be bothered to read the thread". In this game, there are a few instances where he seems like he is actually spending time to put thought into something or maybe going back to read something, though there are still a few quotes you can find where he simply says that he doesn't care. I wish I had a stronger read here, but I'm kind of on the fence. There are reasons that I see that point to mafia and reasons that could make him town. He is one of the more difficult players to read to begin with in my opinion. Most of the stuff that I said about obi earlier seems to still apply here, with the exception of the point I made about the chezinu day one interaction and the tube nuke since at that point I thought chezinu was normal mafia, rather than mafia traitor. I've had him as a townish null read for the most of the game. Going into the cycle, I though both obi and TT looked mostly townie, but obviously one has to be mafia unless something went really wrong elsewhere. There are a few spots that would match up with the detached mafia behavior that I brought up before. Last cycle in particular with the TT reasoning was so brief and the explanation that he was going to sheep because someone else knows better. When it comes to lynches, he has had very few strong opinions. I can't decide if that is towny uncertainty or not. At the same time, there are points where he is thinking about different scenarios that sound genuine that I've had pop into my head too. Last night I spent all my time reading through obi, so today I'm going to go through TT and hopefully make up my mind afterwards. On September 03 2015 23:55 ObiWanShinobi wrote: I don't know. I want to know what JJ thinks still. Is there anything in particular that you are wondering about that I can answer or are you just waiting to see where I end up? | ||
JudgeJudy
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A few replies to the more recent posts before I start the filter dive... On September 03 2015 15:25 Tictock wrote: I really don't like how Geript is going about this, like he's basically saying it doesn't matter if I'm town or not he just wants to lynch me kus of my ability. Were you concluding anything here or just sharing frustrations? I don't really see a mafia geript scenario happening at any point. On September 03 2015 18:03 Tictock wrote: I have to believe that you got out of a meeting, found a computer (phone posting is possible, but leaves even less time for posting the gif) saw KSC unvote (which still left rayn as the lynch) and considered all that you say you did while voting and posting that gif. Yeah I mean there isn't a ton I can say here, other than yes I did do all that. I probably got out around 5-6 minutes to go, quickly skimmed the thread from where I had left off, scanned the voting thread, found a gif (didn't actually post it until I decided to go through with the swap), saw the tube and KSC votes and made my own vote because tube was almost certainly mafia with the late show up and I figured he was trying to hammer rels. It was a tight window and the vote count wasn't really clear, but that is what happened. On September 03 2015 16:00 Tictock wrote: Honestly if JJ is the last mafia here he can have the win for all I care right now. At least he is putting in some effort. Still like Obi is more likely though. And no Obi I don't have a case, you've just been on the fence all game. I just want to see which side you land on when you get pushed off. Even if you don't have a case, would there be a spark notes version of what you are thinking? | ||
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On August 20 2015 16:20 Tictock wrote: Obi is actually a slight town read for me currently, he has made a few pokes and prods. As scum I'd describe him as "just along for the ride", in this game I feel like he's a little engadged, sorta? Idk he is definitely someone to keep an eye on though. On August 21 2015 04:28 Tictock wrote: Unfortunately my experience here has shown that often times players who just don't give a shit are just as often town as they are mafia. You seem to rely on the same "effort tell" in conflicting fashions here. First you say obi tends to be a bit lazy as scum, but shortly later remark that lazy players are just as likely to be mafia. Is this specially a meta read on obi then? If so, would you say it applies to have over the course of this game? On August 22 2015 07:43 Tictock wrote: This is a terrible post from Rels, seems to me like he's soft pushing scum on her. Honestly I dislike the whole interaction between Rels and HtS around the time of this post. Rels claimed to hard townread HtS in his first post and sheeped her vote everywich way. But in this interaction he is just poking at her and never tries to talk about her reads besides him. We def should be lynching Rels today. However! This looks fun too... ##vote: fecalfeast What was the point of this vote on day two? You just finished explaining why Rels looked bad and then you vote for FF who you hadn't even mentioned after ritoky announces his RNG target. You explained why ritoky's RNG voting was likely fake, yet you jump on the same target? I'll admit the vote was short lived though, so maybe it was just a pressure vote or something? On August 22 2015 07:39 Tictock wrote: Not sure what this nuke is, but atm it doesn't affect me so w/e This was an odd response to the nuke considering tube was one of your town reads. Why didn't you question the shot choice here if you felt this way? Did you not find Shining suspicious for this action? You didn't seem to have a strong opinion of Shining one way or the other. On August 24 2015 05:42 Tictock wrote: Didn't you have a scum read on geript? Rayn is also a good lynch. Lots of excuses, promised explanations for his "geript and rels are mafia" entrance that never came. Good post from TT here. I remember this one influenced me a fair bit when he pointed it out because rayn did indeed list geript as one of his mafia reads when he first replaced into the game. Why the blind trust with this one. From another post that you made it suggests that you didn't think he was town. You even voted him shortly after. What is the point of possibly activating some type of mafia ability here? On August 24 2015 10:24 Tictock wrote: Everything I've seen from obi is consistent with his scum game. This post on day two seems to conflict with the post you made on day one. Initially you had him as a slight town for the meta read that he was being engaged, but this suggests he has been consistently mafia. Was there anything in particular that changed between the initial post and this one that changed your mind about him? I need to take a break for a bit. Probably going to take a nap. I'll finish up with the second half of your filter tonight. | ||
JudgeJudy
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On August 24 2015 07:13 Onegu wrote: You have unlocked...a secondary win condition! Even if scum lose, you get a win if the REDACTED role is killed first. May not claim this or out your scum team. Anyone have any idea what this might refer to? At first I assumed it would be like a win condition that relies on taking out the 3p damdred or something, but then it refers to not "outing your scum team" which suggests this might have been like a mafia traitor type role. I know rayn never would have unlocked it at this point, but is there a certain personality role that makes sense here? As far as I know, marv wouldn't have had a beef with HF, Koshi, or FecalFeast, unless there is a reference that I'm not familiar with. | ||
JudgeJudy
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Okay, finally finished up with Tictock's filter. Once I hear back I'll make my final decision. On August 20 2015 16:20 Tictock wrote: Obi is actually a slight town read for me currently, he has made a few pokes and prods. As scum I'd describe him as "just along for the ride", in this game I feel like he's a little engadged, sorta? Idk he is definitely someone to keep an eye on though. On August 24 2015 10:24 Tictock wrote: Everything I've seen from obi is consistent with his scum game. On August 25 2015 07:27 Tictock wrote: Probably Town, but I'm not sure yet: ObiWanShinobi On August 28 2015 00:58 Tictock wrote: Tbh I've never had reason to read Obi as town. It's been riding on a hope and a dream This is a follow up from the previous post so you can reply to that part together with this one maybe. It's been really difficult to follow your read on obi. You haven't mentioned him between these posts but on d1 you were town lean, night two you were scum lean, day three you have him back in the probably town pool and on day four you never read him as town. Could you elaborate what specifically made your read evolve between these cycles. You're not very consistent here and without an explanation I'm kinda lost. On August 25 2015 08:06 Tictock wrote: I say lynch Chez & nuke TL! On August 25 2015 08:58 Tictock wrote: Is somebody nuking LT yet? These posts come out scummy in retrospect. TT suggests a nuke on LT, which would have allowed him to survive the cycle with an anti-nuke, which we know he had. LT even claimed in the thread that he had an anti so it really doesn't make sense to not make him the lynch considering the red check had been revealed by this point. On August 25 2015 07:15 Tictock wrote: So tbh, I'm not all that convinced LT is scum. The fact that he was saying to check rayn is only bad in retrospect since rayn flipped pgo, his late vote on rels is a bit more telling though What about LT's play during the first two cycles made you be on the fence about him going into day three prior to the cop check? On August 31 2015 17:15 Tictock wrote: Besides, I honestly don't see getting much information out of his lynch. On September 01 2015 15:07 Tictock wrote: Oddly enough I think a lot of people agree Obi could be scum here and he might very well be the best lynch. The reason I say I feel like his lynch isn't too informative is because there is less contention there. It's the mechanical easy play, (Everyone not on Rayn wagon - green checks = Obi) and it will still be there tomorrow so I'm inclined to leave him alone another day. On September 02 2015 04:00 Tictock wrote: The best way I can think to reexplain (and it may not even be a very good point) is to look at the analogy of a lynch vs nuke. A nuke is static and doesn't offer much chance for discussion, whereas a lynch is dynamic and generates a lot of content. Look at how Obi has responded to pressure thus far, it doesn't seem like he'd offer much to discuss if we were all pushing on him. I still don't follow this, even after you re-explanation. When the game is nearly over, why does the lynch need to provide information or offer up a discussion? If obi is mafia, then the game likely is over. Getting information or discussion doesn't matter at that point. It's weird you say to leave him around for tomorrow, yet mention that he might be the best lynch. | ||
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The thread is awfully dead considering that we probably need to get this right today if damdred does his own thing tomorrow. Has everyone else made up their mind already? :/ | ||
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Yeah I mean do you plan to respond to anything I wrote yesterday TT? I did spend most of my free time looking through your filter after all and then you just responded to geript's single post. :/ | ||
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On September 05 2015 00:08 ObiWanShinobi wrote: So JJ, where do you stand? I guess I'm sticking with TT. This is still a really tough choice, but he hasn't really addressed anything I found scummy from the filter dive and it kinda seems like he has given up by not offering up a preferred lynch today. If he was town I would have thought that he would at least try to suggest who is the final mafia if the game is still going on after his own lynch. meh I really hope this is over with. you? | ||
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On September 05 2015 00:26 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Still don't really trust JJ. @TT: Did you ever address what JJ brought up? It kind of seems like it but I'd like to confirm for the sake of it. Confirm what? TT's post that he made an hour ago is right there for you to read. What does asking that question solve? If anything, shouldn't you be asking me what I feel he hasn't addressed? Like I quoted the four instances where his read goes back and forth on obi and asked for specific posts that made him town read you at one point and scum read you at the next, and he replies that he doesn't have a clue how to read you, which doesn't help considering he gave "town" and "scum" reads at the time so he had to have been using some metric if the reads were legit. Same thing about the information lynch question. Then like the comment about why he wasn't upset about Shining nuking his town read or what made him read LT as town prior to the check, he replies that he thought Tube and LT were town. That wasn't my question. And like I said, I would have thought he would spend some time on deciding who to lynch today, but hasn't. I'd still like to hear from him about that if he is willing. | ||
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Ditto. | ||
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