/in
(this is my third game, so not open yet)
actually fuck it, let's just start now....
##vote Fidei86
Forum Index > TL Mafia |
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/in (this is my third game, so not open yet) actually fuck it, let's just start now.... ##vote Fidei86 | ||
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On October 28 2015 12:52 Half the Sky wrote: Of course it'll be hilarious if his team throws...just like Fnatic did ahahaha Do NOT remind me. | ||
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where are you HTS...it would be a pleasure to foil and lynch you as scum...just like I did when I first met you. and Moosy, no. Whisky is not needed, for obvious personal reasons I almost flawlessly read HTS. If she deviates from how she would act in a given situation in real life, she is mafia. The only exception was one game on TL where she was third party but it was a neutral (I think) third party and I thought she was town. | ||
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On November 06 2015 02:25 Artanis[Xp] wrote: You two should play together, I'd much enjoy watching that Are you trolling? You probably want one of us to lynch the other | ||
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On November 12 2015 07:46 Trfel wrote: Show nested quote + Just sign up and play XDOn November 12 2015 07:18 Eversince wrote: On November 12 2015 07:10 The Shining wrote: XP I hold no grudges, I think I pick on you for fun, as well XD Unfortunately for me this is starting to feel like I will in fact roll scum. Ohnoezzz I will def CC doc if I do I hope I can join this again then! I'd totally tunnel you from the point you claim! Could be fun! I'd like to have a low activity game for once, the more activity excuses into afk, the better! I hear some games here are post-restricted, does anyone run those? On November 12 2015 20:38 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Show nested quote + On November 12 2015 15:03 VisceraEyes wrote: On November 11 2015 20:40 Artanis[Xp] wrote: On November 11 2015 20:18 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm ready for someone to show me how to play marfia. I can coach you if you want bb. I defs need help with my gif theory... I can do more than that babe. Do I even want to know? One more spot left? It is very tempting to get HTS to join, but then I'd just turn around and try and get her policy lynched day 1. xD | ||
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Eh, I learnt from my first newbie here. If I have to take mafia again, so be it. Eversince, Breshke, Trfel or anyone else here who are students....what are you all studying? I'm just curious. | ||
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On November 14 2015 02:25 disformation wrote: Show nested quote + On November 13 2015 13:14 Trfel wrote: On November 13 2015 12:56 disformation wrote: Don't worry, you'll get to play for 48 hours before we lynch you I hope we can finally get going. Sunday should also be a pretty good starting time for me. Have a bit of stuff lined up this Friday and Saturday. Another newbie would be great, seeing that there currently are only 3 signed up for this. Getting lynched would be a first for me. Inb4: "challenge accepted" :p You got me lynched last time. Time for revenge? Well hopefully you don't play dota. Then you are definitely on my shit list | ||
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On November 15 2015 07:03 Half the Sky wrote: #AllIsOneBordeaux (if town coach) #AllIsOneTalisker (if mafia coach) #AllIsOne If it's possible to modkill coaches for getting their scum students drunk, please do so. People who roll scum, she'll serve you very well as a coach, but just disregard everything - and I mean everything - she says about whisky. | ||
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geript pages 13-14 - not sure I agree about Shining's comments being "not pointed" or however you said it. He seems pretty pushy (and towny) to me so far, tone-wise he seems convinced of what he's saying. Now, I don't do meta, it's only my third game here, so if your read is based on meta, if you could clarify that comment (post 277) that would be nice. Don't think geript is mafia, it's completely towny to ask Farah to explain the purpose of her reaction test. So for now, a town lean on Shining (unless I'm missing something but I see nothing wrong with the way he's posting so far), same to geript, scumlean to Farah through page 16. | ||
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I know geript is using meta to read VE but I'm not really understanding how he can say that about Shining without making reads on others that have posted. I'll keep reading though... | ||
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...."but I'm not really understanding how VE (not geript) can say that about Shining..." | ||
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Your filter, last I checked, you really hated Trfel's posts/play. You have about 30 games played per database, Trfel 18, and VE way the hell more than you. I just glossed a few Trfel games and he appears to be like myself, a low-volume poster. So how are you so sure given what I just mentioned (unless you absolutely know he's had the experience with VE, I'll admit I didn't dig THAT far) that his game is a mafia game as opposed to him just being ignorant on the VE meta? | ||
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On November 16 2015 23:15 NocturneMage wrote: geript, I have another question for you - I looked at the database. Your filter, last I checked, you really hated Trfel's posts/play. You have about 30 games played per database, Trfel 18, and VE way the hell more than you. I just glossed a few Trfel games and he appears to be like myself, a low-volume poster. So how are you so sure given what I just mentioned (unless you absolutely know he's had the experience with VE, I'll admit I didn't dig THAT far) that his game is a mafia game as opposed to him just being ignorant on the VE meta? And reading ritoky's take on the Trfel post is what I would have expected and ritoky claims to have a good meta read on VE. At the very least based on that alone ritoky is more towny than geript. But I'd like to hear geript's explanation as well. Looks like I need to go back to the Eversince/Shining/etc interactions, first read it was a bit confusing with the convos all over the place. And seeing as I'm one of the few (only) EU players this game, looks like I'm talking to walls. I have a training seminar in an hour, but I should be back in a few hours. | ||
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disformation why is Trfel's post "strange"? You are a newer player like myself so ignoring meta, can you expand on what you thought was wrong with it? | ||
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#370 - this is stuff he could easily talk about and the question on Shining is something that could be easily explained in his filter. #396 does dick all for anyone trying to determine his alignment. Vote on Farah is out of nowhere, so don't really like that either. Zero direction with what he's doing so far. At least geript has some direction even if I can't understand dick all right now for the reasoning. ##vote MoosyDoosy I'll re-visit the Ever/Shining/etc interactions after seminar folks. Hopefully others will be around in a few hours. Fecalfeast at first glance is also dick all, but he's also upfront about being lazy, so it's not like he's trying to hide it (the lazy/GTA comments). Null for now. | ||
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On November 16 2015 21:34 VisceraEyes wrote: Also I'm back! ##Unvote I like the posts since my vote, and it wasn't super cereal anyway as many of you have clearly deduced. Most of the people actively posting I like, I think I dislike Fecal the mostest of anyone who's posted. The super hard townreads on me from geript and ritoky BOTH gave me massive wood. I think geript's might feel a little over-explainy, but I still can't bring myself to find it suspicious. Pocket achieved for both of you. So yeah, unless we're lynching a hard lurker, which I'm always down with, I think I prefer a Fecalfeast lynch. Aside from one townread on Ritoky, I really don't know what Fecal thinks in spite of his actively engaging with the thread. I'd believe GTA if that game weren't so old hat, I think he's just mafia trying to skate by. Eh, Fecal is lurking and he's admitting it. So I also don't know where you are getting "actively engaging from" other than actually giving four early reads (30/361) and asking Moosy one question. I would think a mafia player wouldn't be so obvious unless this is a proven scum meta of his. The GTA comment is NAI, not sure why "old" games make the post hard to believe unless you know this guy out of game. I also don't know whether you missed it but how you could, at this stage of the game, lynch him over Moosy. | ||
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"....other than actually giving four early reads (360/361) and asking Moosy..." | ||
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I mean if VE is town or if the entire game is going to town read him based on meta, I'm just going to put him in his own category (and not lynch him obviously) until I can understand the guy better or find a valid reason to rule him as mafia by process of elimination. I'm reading Trfel's case and the only issue is that he doesn't explicitly say "this guy is mafia" or "this guy is a mafia lean" but from reading his case (particularly the final sentence), he's inferring a mafia lean, so I could pick that up. Again, same question to you Scott that I asked of geript, how are you determining that Trfel just isn't ignorant of VE's play and Trfel's play is actually mafia play? If people are not understanding what I'm trying to ask here then look at where I asked geript the same question because I looked at the database as well and a few Trfel games and I can't understand the basis for that read. | ||
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On November 17 2015 00:57 scott31337 wrote: Show nested quote + On November 16 2015 23:01 NocturneMage wrote: I have no problem with Trfel's read on VE btw, I don't know how VE can say in #263 "with so many having posted" not knowing how he plays otherwise, that is a pretty decent way to take attention off himself and out of context just reading that at face value. The next few posts in response to Shining are meh. I know geript is using meta to read VE but I'm not really understanding how he can say that about Shining without making reads on others that have posted. I'll keep reading though... From my side, I see it more as trying to throw some really weak non-sticky turds and see if the townies will bite and run with it - It failed. Did you get anything out from VE or Trfel on it though? Ignoring anyone's meta reads, VE doesn't seem so towny to me, and now I see his last post prior to voting Fecalfeast saying oh he wasn't so serious (cereal, I'm assuming) so now it goes back to Trfel to follow up on this. Even then I'm looking at VE's post and that reason to lynch Fecalfeast over MoosyDoosy and honestly my first reaction to that is WTF. On Trfel, I did not see anything malicious and especially if Trfel cannot read VE then I'd say a slight town lean but apparently geript has some extra piece of information that I'm clearly not seeing to say otherwise (to be fair we do agree on Moosy and ritoky so far and his opening on Farah was towny, so...) | ||
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On November 17 2015 02:04 disformation wrote: I am here... kinda. Huge headache... Still caught up to stuff an will start answering a few things. But before that: townread for NocturneMage. I like his posts so far and he looks really different from NSM13 (where he was maffay). Can you comment on Trfel vs VE? There was one post where I asked you a question about Trfel and you (unlike geript and scott) are not in a position to meta him or VE. You said he had a strange reaction so what jumped out at you? Also what do you make of MoosyDoosy so far? I know at the very least you have played at least one game with him (possibly more?) I was mafia in newbie 13, you both were town. | ||
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On November 17 2015 04:19 Trfel wrote: Show nested quote + Why is that not a good read to make? Please explain this to me yourself, don't quote someone else.On November 16 2015 22:43 NocturneMage wrote: Page 15 - I saw nothing wrong with Farah's posts until she unvoted and then made the general activity comment in post 288, few others commented out, but 1 hour into the game to say that it's not a good read to make at all. I thought the read was self explanatory but I'll reword it so that it's clear - making a comment about "general activity" one hour into the game - basically a small timeframe when we have a 48 hour cycle, is not a good assessment. She did comment on tone but people's tone can change. Also on the topic of Farah, I also want to point out her read on ritoky. He is coming across to me as pretty strong town, but... On November 17 2015 00:05 FarahBlackwing wrote: I also think ritoky is town, but i'm probably the least confident in this, and some of geripts postings have giving me good feelings but i'm not super sure about either. What about him is making you doubt your read? (at Farah, not Trfel) | ||
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I took no issue with Breshke's filter so far from his reads alone. 333 and 377 (at least the first half) would warrant a town lean. 386 indicates he doesn't care what ritoky thinks. Alright. Here's where the potential problem comes in. I checked his posts relative to events in the thread. He asks a question about Trfel but as far as I can tell doesn't take a stance on Trfel, and I can go either way on that depending on what he would have done with that question. He doesn't take a stance on geript or VE but he talks about them "grilling" the Shining. Now here's the issue, geript is heavily involved in the game, VE is heavily involved in the game, Moosy had a really bad post before his response on the Shining to ritoky but that goes either missed or ignored. So this leads me to think Breshke is playing a "safe" game or might be taking that approach, and not wanting to draw attention/ruffle feathers/whatever you want to call it is a scum trait. I'm not familiar with how he plays the game so my read could just be way off target, but just looking at context alone, I have some concern he is focusing on the wrong things for the wrong reasons. (yes I checked the database, he's not inexperienced either) So I think until I see more from him on especially people being discussed as lynchables, I think it's a scumlean for him. thoughts? | ||
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I mean seriously that post on Fecalfeast was bad. Not commenting on Moosy and saying everything else was good....bad. I'm curious to hear his response to this. As for Trfel, he clearly shows he believes in this and the statements he is making are backed up by both experience (Part 3), which is a town trait. | ||
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On November 17 2015 05:12 Trfel wrote: I don't like scott31337's posts so far. His late entrance is very strange, I'm not used to him ignoring a game for so long after it began. He also didn't explain his reads, and followed thread sentiment. I don't see any real contributions from him so far. He doesn't seem to be trying to solve the game. I've had just enough experience playing and observing Scott to say that his play so far is not alignment indicative. I think I observed one game and he mentioned some shit about getting mislynched because of a new job, and I know his list posts as town generally aren't informative or earth-shattering or whatever descriptor you want to use. In Newbie 12, everyone wanted to lynch him for his list posts/low-activity except for one player who kept screaming that voting analysis cleared him (and it did). In Newbie 13, he was forced to claim because his town play was quite scummy. Now in Firefly he posted more but that might have been availability dependent. I remember trying to read him before though and he isn't a very active player in general. If there's not much more by the end of day then I'd probably move him down. | ||
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On November 17 2015 05:33 Trfel wrote: Show nested quote + Eh.....On November 17 2015 05:21 NocturneMage wrote: Let me try and take a pass at Breshke. On a first read, it's a null but there are a few caveats. I took no issue with Breshke's filter so far from his reads alone. 333 and 377 (at least the first half) would warrant a town lean. 386 indicates he doesn't care what ritoky thinks. Alright. Here's where the potential problem comes in. I checked his posts relative to events in the thread. He asks a question about Trfel but as far as I can tell doesn't take a stance on Trfel, and I can go either way on that depending on what he would have done with that question. He doesn't take a stance on geript or VE but he talks about them "grilling" the Shining. Now here's the issue, geript is heavily involved in the game, VE is heavily involved in the game, Moosy had a really bad post before his response on the Shining to ritoky but that goes either missed or ignored. So this leads me to think Breshke is playing a "safe" game or might be taking that approach, and not wanting to draw attention/ruffle feathers/whatever you want to call it is a scum trait. I'm not familiar with how he plays the game so my read could just be way off target, but just looking at context alone, I have some concern he is focusing on the wrong things for the wrong reasons. (yes I checked the database, he's not inexperienced either) So I think until I see more from him on especially people being discussed as lynchables, I think it's a scumlean for him. thoughts? Breshke has a playstyle much like my own. He doesn't post very much, he doesn't lead the thread or push things, but when he says something, it's generally really really insightful and helpful. Breshke's only made four posts so far this game. The first post was a very good catch, and something that I'm definitely keeping in mind. I do like his read on The Shining, as well. He's also right in that The Shining's "statement of activity" isn't alignment indicative, because The Shining is extremely defensive (even as town) and posts that every single game he plays. So, his first post is insightful, as is his second post. His third post explains his second post (responding to ritoky's question), and his fourth post is a joke. I'm not really sure what you're getting at? Am I misunderstanding your post? I don't see how you can say that a player with only four posts is playing "safe" or not? So let me re-word this. It's not activity that makes him safe. It's his activity within the context of the thread. Let me break it down. So what you need to do is go to where Breshke is commenting as other events are happening in the thread. Why does he focus on a Shining meta when especially in your eyes VE has done much worse and been more active. As in why does he focus on one event but not another? How does he miss Moosy who is quite scummy with his entrance? Look at the placement of the posts relative to the thread. That's what I'm saying. Again, I could be off target, if your experience on him is correct. It's not something that would have me pushing his lynch but it makes me question where his focus or how his focus is directed. Am I making sense here? | ||
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On November 17 2015 05:36 Fecalfeast wrote: VE you have me on steam lol my buddy hasn't done any of the online stuff yet I'm mostly skimming here but I side with trfel on VE for sure. town: ritoky trfel nocturne mafia: moose ve that's all I got No read on geript? Or Shining? | ||
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On November 17 2015 05:50 Trfel wrote: So you're saying that Breshke is suspicious because he's not focusing on the important things in the thread, at the time that he was there? I guess my question back to you is, how do you determine what the important things in the thread are? Isn't that a matter of opinion? I'll take a look at the context again, this kind of read is definitely valid and can be very powerful, but it's also extremely subjective, which makes it so, so difficult to apply correctly. You have a point with the second sentence but when you read Breshke's filter, he talks about geript and VE "grilling" him. So he mentions them at the very least. It can be assumed that he's at least read and he makes a read on Shining but fails to take a stance on geript and VE. Now, I realise there are a lot of Americans in this game and maybe the word "grilling" has a different meaning or a different context to some people but he clearly has an opinion on what is happening but doesn't focus on VE one way whereas other people are. He even says geript taunts him (post 377) but doesn't focus further. Like in his world, something should have tipped him off. Maybe I'm reading too much into it. MoosyDoosy was not quite as active so he might get a pass if he may have failed to notice but | ||
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On November 17 2015 05:52 VisceraEyes wrote: Trfel stop failing and find mafia. Can you explain your read on Fecalfeast? | ||
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On November 17 2015 05:54 VisceraEyes wrote: Like repeatedly failing to see what most everyone else sees, that I'm town and winning, is making you look slow. You're not a slow guy are you Trfel? | ||
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On November 17 2015 06:08 scott31337 wrote: Who do you think is mafia right now? I think we need a little pressure. I'll be back. ##vote VisceraEyes | ||
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##unvote ##vote VisceraEyes | ||
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On November 17 2015 06:24 Trfel wrote: Yeah, I'm either missing something quite large or VisceraEyes is mafia. His recent posts point to the former. Show nested quote + First post suggests that I'm town, second post suggests that I'm mafia (I didn't post in between). No conclusion at all, no push. No comments on anything else, didn't even respond to my case.On November 17 2015 05:54 VisceraEyes wrote: Like repeatedly failing to see what most everyone else sees, that I'm town and winning, is making you look slow. You're not a slow guy are you Trfel? I don't think he's calling you mafia, but rather just calling you bad "slow", I just thought it was an ad hom that wasn't alignment indicative in of itself. Anyhow, I'm going to turn my attention to VE. So VE, what are your reads (scott's question) and why lynch Fecalfeast over MoosyDoosy? And if Trfel's case sucks, why? Going against the majority is generally a town trait and here you are saying "like repeatedly failing to see what most everyone sees", the latter makes it easier for scum to hide I would argue. Now you aren't intentionally saying he's doing so, so what is the point of your pushback on him? Also you are calling Trfel "slow" and inferring he is bad at this game or at least wrong on your alignment. Now I have another question for you VE. If you are town, what does that say to you about geript who is inferring that Trfel's game is (at this point in time) exclusively scummy? | ||
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On November 17 2015 07:10 VisceraEyes wrote: Show nested quote + On November 17 2015 05:59 NocturneMage wrote: On November 17 2015 05:52 VisceraEyes wrote: Trfel stop failing and find mafia. Can you explain your read on Fecalfeast? Would lynch. What is there to explain? You ninjaed me but see the question in my next (now most recent) post, why him over MoosyDoosy? | ||
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On November 17 2015 00:00 NocturneMage wrote: Alright, one last post. Show nested quote + On November 16 2015 21:34 VisceraEyes wrote: Also I'm back! ##Unvote I like the posts since my vote, and it wasn't super cereal anyway as many of you have clearly deduced. Most of the people actively posting I like, I think I dislike Fecal the mostest of anyone who's posted. The super hard townreads on me from geript and ritoky BOTH gave me massive wood. I think geript's might feel a little over-explainy, but I still can't bring myself to find it suspicious. Pocket achieved for both of you. So yeah, unless we're lynching a hard lurker, which I'm always down with, I think I prefer a Fecalfeast lynch. Aside from one townread on Ritoky, I really don't know what Fecal thinks in spite of his actively engaging with the thread. I'd believe GTA if that game weren't so old hat, I think he's just mafia trying to skate by. Eh, Fecal is lurking and he's admitting it. So I also don't know where you are getting "actively engaging from" other than actually giving four early reads (30/361) and asking Moosy one question. I would think a mafia player wouldn't be so obvious unless this is a proven scum meta of his. The GTA comment is NAI, not sure why "old" games make the post hard to believe unless you know this guy out of game. I also don't know whether you missed it but how you could, at this stage of the game, lynch him over Moosy. | ||
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On November 17 2015 07:17 VisceraEyes wrote: I have no reason to prefer Fecal to Mossy. Aside from having played more with Fecal, but with so little content that hardly matters. It's a flavor thing, I noticed Fecal first. So if I understand you correctly you are saying that Fecalfeast normally posts more or has more (meaningful???) content as town? | ||
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On November 17 2015 07:21 VisceraEyes wrote: I at least know who he finds suspicious early when he is paying in the thread, at least from my experience. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's that. Well like I said in my first response to you he had FOUR reads (posts 360/361) in addition to ritoky, in a separate post. Now the quality of those reads is another story, but the reads were there. | ||
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On November 17 2015 07:12 NocturneMage wrote: Now I have another question for you VE. If you are town, what does that say to you about geript who is inferring that Trfel's game is (at this point in time) exclusively scummy? to clarify this is in context to his first (smaller) case on you since geript has been out of thread I believe ever since. | ||
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On November 17 2015 07:27 VisceraEyes wrote: Show nested quote + On November 17 2015 07:24 NocturneMage wrote: On November 17 2015 07:21 VisceraEyes wrote: I at least know who he finds suspicious early when he is paying in the thread, at least from my experience. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's that. Well like I said in my first response to you he had FOUR reads (posts 360/361) in addition to ritoky, in a separate post. Now the quality of those reads is another story, but the reads were there. The quality of the reads is what I'm referring to. Not just who but why, etc. He openly admitted he was being lazy. Does he have "lazy" games as mafia? In #495 he admits he's been lazy again after his next list post. Does he just typically not care as mafia? Or by contrast are his reads more detailed as town? And if this is the case, why was your phrasing as such "I don't know what he thinks". Why didn't you just directly ask him? | ||
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To be fair I have never played with Fecalfeast either. But you'd think that if he was mafia, well I was told when I was scum my first game, most mafia play to survive. Fecalfeast is just coming off to me like he doesn't give a shit tbh. | ||
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And I need to afk again. Not sure when more people will be on, but it looks like I will be missing people due to timezones. Damn. If anyone has anything for me, I'll probably not get to it until the morning. | ||
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And I realise Damdred is her husband but how on earth is that Mafia indicative for her? The second point of yours is something I questioned but the rest of your points are making my head spin. | ||
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On November 17 2015 08:48 ritoky wrote: Show nested quote + On November 17 2015 08:43 NocturneMage wrote: Bloody hell will you people please stop using meta? Especially the people or on the people who haven't played more than a couple of games. And I realise Damdred is her husband but how on earth is that Mafia indicative for her? The second point of yours is something I questioned but the rest of your points are making my head spin. Wait what? I wonder if my soul read can be a family thing. Dat shit would be OP, have to try it. Farah said last game her husband was Damdred. Once youre finished with her then try to read me, my wife's played on TL the last year lol so you probably know how to read her too xD Anyhow, I'm seriously catching up now, I know I missed a few posts from Breshke. | ||
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On November 17 2015 09:04 FarahBlackwing wrote: 5) scott31337 7) Breshke 9) Fecalfeast I"m not sure about disinformation he might need to be in this list, i'd probably add him and lynch into those 4. Can you expand upon disformation, Breshke and Fecalfeast? There is no previous mention in your filter. | ||
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On November 17 2015 09:25 Breshke wrote: Show nested quote + On November 17 2015 09:16 Trfel wrote: Breshke, who are your scumreads right now? If you'd like to wait for FarahBlackwing to answer first, that's fine. It's mostly less active people. Something is wrong about mooseys outburst like he HAS rolled scum here before he makes it sound like he never has. He also entered a game where its more likely to roll town than mafia and is having a tantrum that he got the more likely option. Also in the game he was mafia he overreacted to rayn dying (not being saved by the doctor) which was obviously fake and this feels a lot like that. So i don't think anyone should be giving him a pass for having a cry. Shit please don't remind me of that game. I want VE to come back as well but by the time he does I'm going to be asleep. disformation in my first game I don't recall being obvious town when he was town, but he might be a decent copcheck. In fact as of now, him and Scott might be decent copchecks if we have one. Also Moosy's post on Farah was pretty bad as well. I'll explain why. | ||
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On November 17 2015 09:44 ritoky wrote: also someone comment on what i typed...i feel dumb typing it now. I'm going to try and get to that before I go to bed. It's almost 1am here, and I've been up for way the hell too long. | ||
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On November 17 2015 08:45 MoosyDoosy wrote: Show nested quote + On November 17 2015 08:43 NocturneMage wrote: Bloody hell will you people please stop using meta? Especially the people or on the people who haven't played more than a couple of games. And I realise Damdred is her husband but how on earth is that Mafia indicative for her? The second point of yours is something I questioned but the rest of your points are making my head spin. 1. Weird gambit early on that Farah would never make. 2. Using asshole move to explain "boring thread" and try to push under rug. Not exactly explaining it away. 3. Bad read on Shining using bad meta and using other people's meta as excuse for read to get out of bad situation. 4. Gives too many free town reads based on nothing at all. 5. Mechanical post that claims emotion when there is none. Is tone read. Alright, Moosy, this is why I don't like this post. 1 Again....bloody meta. "That Farah would never make." No. Please. How is that gambit mafia. Pretend this is her first game. Does that gambit achieve dick all? 2 I did agree she didn't explain her reaction test etc. If she responded I had missed the response. 3 Again, meta. How are you to use meta to judge someone's metaread on someone's meta? I'm pretty sure I'm using correct English here. 4 No, I disagree with this somewhat. The Shining read I didn't agree with and I asked her to flesh out the ritoky read and I did agree with the reasoning for a few of the others. 5 Tone reads aren't entirely reliable, and the quote you posted, I'm not sure it was emotionless, especially if it was the one where she said "can't be assed" like she's mad at you because you aren't playing seriously. | ||
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On November 17 2015 09:51 Fecalfeast wrote: Oh, to add to your post nocturne, he said meta on himself is invalid because he plays on other sites but he is willing to use meta on farah who's on her second game... Exactly, it's absolute shit that does dick all in figuring out anyone's alignment. I'm honestly this close to just lynching him at at least encouraging the use of investigative roles to sort out others. | ||
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On November 17 2015 09:57 ritoky wrote: Show nested quote + On November 17 2015 09:52 NocturneMage wrote: On November 17 2015 09:51 Fecalfeast wrote: Oh, to add to your post nocturne, he said meta on himself is invalid because he plays on other sites but he is willing to use meta on farah who's on her second game... Exactly, it's absolute shit that does dick all in figuring out anyone's alignment. I'm honestly this close to just lynching him at at least encouraging the use of investigative roles to sort out others. Meta is extremely powerful when it is used by someone with a strong grasp of it and a decent track record. For ex: my reads on alakaslam and damdred. But generally speaking it is wildly misused and over-inflated in importance. Well I'm mainly referring to the people that are using it on people with less than 2 games of experience or by people here with only a few games experience. Moosy's discussion of it on Farah is particularly bad. The people like you and geript and scott talking about VE earlier is one thing and I was townreading at least you earlier on and I took my time to try and work out VE to my own understanding regardless of Trfel's case (although there's a few things I think he needs to come back and say, give feedback on FF and maybe a few others) but some of the things being described by people are attributes from which I've been advised can be broken. It just doesn't help me at all or maybe I'm just being a newb here. At least Moosy's use of it doesn't help me at all and I also agreed with what others said on Farah's post regarding Moosy. | ||
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Getting to ritoky's post on disformation.... Only other person I need to take a hard look is Eversince. | ||
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And VE completely dodged Breshke's questions upon re-reading. | ||
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On November 17 2015 07:29 VisceraEyes wrote: The people arguing man I don't know. I saw a bunch of posters arguing with each other so I made a broad stroke generalization that most of them are town. I'm not currently sitting at the computer so I'm not gonna go back and name names, the point was that like always I'm mostly interested in lynching in the low volume posters today. This could be lazy town though. God I don't know. | ||
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On November 17 2015 09:28 ritoky wrote: this is basically going to end up being a waste of space for a lot of people when you get to the end and realize it is a NULL READ. so i am spoilering it now DISFORM IS NULL TO ME FOR COMPLICATED RAISINS. now here's why: Here's his entrance, it feels natural and relaxed: Show nested quote + On November 16 2015 05:05 disformation wrote: On November 16 2015 05:04 FarahBlackwing wrote: Hello. I think the proper use of our time is ##vote shining Statistically it has to be time Can you throw me the statistics you are refering to? Show nested quote + On November 16 2015 05:07 disformation wrote: On November 16 2015 05:05 disformation wrote: On November 16 2015 05:04 FarahBlackwing wrote: Hello. I think the proper use of our time is ##vote shining Statistically it has to be time Can you throw me the statistics you are refering to? Actually: counterproposal: In both games I played with scott, he was lynched D1 and town won. That is like a 100% to win if we lynch scott today! ##vote scott31337 Show nested quote + On November 16 2015 05:09 disformation wrote: On November 16 2015 05:07 FarahBlackwing wrote: Shining has rolled town 85% of the time maybe 90%. His streak must be over at some point I have rolled town 100% of the time. Maybe you should lynch me. :D Particularly the suggestion that we should lynch him feels town. It takes a certain level of testicular fortitude to suggest lynching yourself as mafia that early in the game and no offense to disform, but from my experience he isn't that ballsy and forthright. But then it starts to feel awkward.... he gets into the "am i the only one who was joking" and self deprecation area which is very different from his natural upbeat attitude from before. The he says this: Show nested quote + On November 16 2015 06:17 disformation wrote: On November 16 2015 06:13 FarahBlackwing wrote: On November 16 2015 06:08 disformation wrote: On November 16 2015 06:05 FarahBlackwing wrote: On November 16 2015 05:59 geript wrote: On November 16 2015 05:58 FarahBlackwing wrote: ##unvote Ok I have my read now. Why shouldn't I dos something earlto try to obtain any type of formative reads or understanding when everyone was just saying hi. So what's your read and how did you reach it? Shining is town based on general activity, somewhat emotional responses based on things happening in game. His posts sound like someone struggling o try to get his point across rather than someone trying to fit in. Pretty sure he's town at least for now. Do you mean to say that Shining posts much more as town? Could someone else confirm this? Don't remember playing with Shining. From reading his past games he is slightly more posty but he's more mechanical as scum and lacks emotional responses about in game situations and it generally comes later after post a than in sync with the thread. This view comes from research and talking with people who know how to read him Alright, thanks. Will probably have to look at a few Shining maffay games myself. which i quoted for empty promise potential. this is a very practiced and common mafia tactic where they say "reading filters" or "catching up" then they deliver low volume small content posts or say they didn't find anything to feign doing more work to solve the game than they are actually doing. so i was expecting some in depth analysis of shining at some point. spoiler alert, i was disappointed that it never came to be. which tends toward mafia for me then he posts his reads and there's that FF read that sticks out to me. i don't see why it was mentioned and it felt forced into it. he includes so few reads in the post, so why does FF being null get included? I don't understand what the point of it was. it isn't a strong read, it doesn't seek to illicit a reaction, it is just this random null read with no content to it in a very small list of reads. i can't grasp why it is even there. tending toward mafia again. next he starts posting and trying to solve the game and i generally like the way he is pushing so i start to think he is town again, but then at the end of all of that pushing he arrives at this: Show nested quote + On November 17 2015 02:50 disformation wrote: So to summarize: ppl I currently don't like: MoosyDoosy, Trfel, FF which is like the biggest pile of LHF in the thread. so i am super confused right now. BUT HERE IS WHERE I GET REALLLLLLLLLYYYYY CONFUSED. REMEMBER TRFEL IS MAFIA TO HIM, now watch these next posts: Show nested quote + On November 17 2015 03:06 disformation wrote: On November 17 2015 02:50 disformation wrote: So to summarize: ppl I currently don't like: MoosyDoosy, Trfel, FF Should add at least a bit of reasoning: All three are in dire need of contributing more and have exhibited a bit of suspicious actions. (MoosyDoosy buggering off without explaining his reads, Trefel explained a few posts above and FF being lurky as hell, with minimal contributions.) Other thoughts: Eversince will probably just get a pass from me for D1 because of the surgeries along with some points for trying to be here and do stuff. I didn't mind Farah, but want to see more in the near future. Still a bit waffly (btw: for ppl that don't know me: I am The Waffleboy) on The Shining, but he is a town lean for me atm. Also waffly about Breshke. Kinda liked scotts entry, so townlean unless he just vanishes for the rest of the day. I know scott is a low volume poster and I have a bit of a problem with that, since it often leads to me feeling like I don't see a proper read progression. NocturneMage, geript, ritoky and VE town. VE is town, trfel is mafia. Show nested quote + On November 17 2015 05:32 disformation wrote: On November 17 2015 04:28 Trfel wrote: Disformation, why did you townread scott31337? Please explain. On November 17 2015 05:12 Trfel wrote: I don't like scott31337's posts so far. His late entrance is very strange, I'm not used to him ignoring a game for so long after it began. He also didn't explain his reads, and followed thread sentiment. I don't see any real contributions from him so far. He doesn't seem to be trying to solve the game. I'm going ahead and respond to both of that. Since I remember scott as someone who does not post a lot, I don't think his late entry is alignment indicative. I kinda liked his entry because he was explained were he was at after catching up to the thread fairly well. Yeah, it was not that original. Maybe I am a bit biased because a lot of his views are very similar to mine... His sudden disappearance does worry me a bit though.. would like him to interact with a few ppl and/or to push his scum reads. While we are at that: ##vote MoosyDoosy @MoosyDoosy : Plx, explain your reads and answer my question. I also should maybe rethink my stance on VE since I pretty my like Trfel's case. I also do not feel like lynching Trfel atm. One of his only 3 mafia reads gives a scum read on one of his only 3 town reads and he then trusts his scum reads' case on his top town read and re-evaluates. I am so fucking confused by this I can't even explain it. It makes no sense, so I would appreciate it if someone would fucking explain this insanity to me. Ultimately he has shit that makes me think he is town, but he has shit that makes me think he is mafia, and then he has shit that I don't even understand. He might be in my lynch pile today cuz I think he is on the mafia side of null at the moment....but I feel like this is someone I am going to have difficulty reading all game long, so I really need to figure him out. My thoughts on disformation: (1) Initial tone read - no issues here (2) Lack of followthrough being scummy on Shining - agreed there (3) I can't understand the process through which he's townreading Shining unless I'm completely missing it. I don't disagree with Trfel's questioning of him on townreading him. The only thing about scott is that I know what he's capable from in Newbie 14, but at the same time I know his schedule greatly impacts his game. (4) Regarding your point on the auto-flip by disformation on Trfel's case, I think disformation has maybe one more game than I do here? It could be newbie town getting blown away by such an elaborate and well formatted case or it could be trying to blend with thread sentiment. I had an additional reason personally to scumread VE, but the other thing that makes me think mafia for disformation is him referring to himself as Waffleboy, as in he's aware he's waffling, or what some of you have called self-meta. I think he's a good cop check if we have one. At the very least more from him would be good. | ||
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Town: ritoky - right now, strongest town read Probably town: geript (assuming read/followup on Trfel makes sense) Townlean: Shining - seemed opinionated enough but need to revisit interaction with Eversince Trfel - had no issues with the case or his follow up to VE, although my one reservation on him is how he goes form post 523 on VE to "probably not mafia" to later in his filter to 583 where he cites Scott and VE as standing out for him to lynch. So that is a gap in explanation that needs to be sorted. Breshke - answers to my questions were satisfactory and is pressuring VE for answers. I also notice he is engaging his scumreads and trying to resolve them. VisceraEyes: VisceraEyes - I'm really trying not to be a dick here, but I really cannot understand this guy's play but if I can work him out I'll work with him. Answering Breshke's questions and providing more reads would help. Null: Eversince - just couldn't get around to her today. disformation - there are legitimate town and mafia tells but I would use another day to work on him Fecalfeast - he didn't explain the reads early game, but he openly admitted he was lazy. seems intent on lynching scott and putting pressure on Moosy to play the game which is towny though. My gut says town, but I could be wrong. Scumlean scott - list post was adequate for entrance and reminded me of his past town games or no different, but lack of additional input will move him down on my list. Lack of followup on Trfel is meh. Updates on other reads would help. FarahBlackwing - This is another player I'm seeing both town and mafia attributes but more of the second here. Didn't like her opening and lack of explanation on her reaction test. I didn't agree with post 299 on the lack of emotion because I sensed emotion in his posts. I disagree with her meta (second game ever!) on Shining but I also agreed with her read formation on VE, which makes sense for a new player. She didn't actually provide a read on MoosyDoosy other than frustration. And her final post (594) I don't see how she's townreading Eversince and then calling the exchange odd and saying "some things don't feel forced". Likely mafia: MoosyDoosy - didn't like his entrance, didn't like his martyring (self-meta), didn't like his use of meta, even after explanation, and the push on Farah was just hilariously wrong. ##unvote Folks, if there's shit I missed reading or whatever or if I read something wrong, let me know. I'm coming in on an off day and I plan to lie in a bit tomorrow, but there's a few people I still need to read and follow up on. should be around for the end of the cycle. Good night everyone. | ||
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On November 17 2015 09:07 Trfel wrote: Show nested quote + Hm, I could use my Half the Sky read methods on you and probably drive you insane ^^On November 17 2015 09:02 NocturneMage wrote: On November 17 2015 08:48 ritoky wrote: On November 17 2015 08:43 NocturneMage wrote: Bloody hell will you people please stop using meta? Especially the people or on the people who haven't played more than a couple of games. And I realise Damdred is her husband but how on earth is that Mafia indicative for her? The second point of yours is something I questioned but the rest of your points are making my head spin. Wait what? I wonder if my soul read can be a family thing. Dat shit would be OP, have to try it. Farah said last game her husband was Damdred. Once youre finished with her then try to read me, my wife's played on TL the last year lol so you probably know how to read her too xD Anyhow, I'm seriously catching up now, I know I missed a few posts from Breshke. Don't tempt me, meta hater FFS I just saw this....do not make me policy lynch you. | ||
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Also heads up, I'm going out to dinner/drinks with a few friends around 6pm so will be on mobile at best with an 8pm deadline. So I'll do my best to get everything out there before that. | ||
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Tone reads I had the opposite conclusion, but I've been advised in the past they are weak and subjective so... So disformation, hate to break it to you, your vote will not achieve its intended purpose. | ||
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On November 17 2015 14:42 scott31337 wrote: I apologize for my last post - I got enough energy to notepad. I'm town. Show nested quote + On November 17 2015 09:19 Trfel wrote: On November 17 2015 09:17 FarahBlackwing wrote: The problem is that he knows this, and he knows that people will say this......Because he did something similar to this last game we played as town, and from what I understand have been informed on he tries a bit harder as scum doesn't roll over. Ugh, this is so frustrating. Weak. Show nested quote + On November 17 2015 09:25 Breshke wrote: On November 17 2015 09:16 Trfel wrote: Breshke, who are your scumreads right now? If you'd like to wait for FarahBlackwing to answer first, that's fine. It's mostly less active people. Something is wrong about mooseys outburst like he HAS rolled scum here before he makes it sound like he never has. He also entered a game where its more likely to roll town than mafia and is having a tantrum that he got the more likely option. Also in the game he was mafia he overreacted to rayn dying (not being saved by the doctor) which was obviously fake and this feels a lot like that. So i don't think anyone should be giving him a pass for having a cry. FF still being lazy so would lynch. Scott aswell. I don't think it is out of the ordinary for scott to not be around for large portions of some phases but when he is around he usually has a big thought dump. He didn't attempt anything like that this game which feels scummy from him. He is lean scum but I wouldn't lynch him over moosey or fecal at this stage. I also am waiting for VE to be around again. This is the Breshke I know I thought from his first post - He's thinking about the game and townie thoughts. Show nested quote + On November 17 2015 09:26 Fecalfeast wrote: Honestly Farah's filter is pretty nice to look at. I mean, the lynch list is kinda butt because I am leaning town on bresh and am fairly certain that I'm town but being wrong is allowed. Is there a case on farah or anything that I'm blatantly missing? arr.. And my virtual townleans have not said anything (Geript, etc.) So I think I'm fooled at least by one. I'm going to sleep - at Page 30 of Ritoky's wall of text. I've had a lot to drink and calling it a night. I'll continue from there. Trfel's been trying but like I said - could be his scummy cases he's done it before Fuck Moosy and his lazy ass town game We will not have it. Geript fell the fuck off once he got townleaned NM has been playing his towngame I'll be up in about 12 hours and bitch that I'm not online and posting. Well suck it I was busy helping out my cousin that I just found out had MS. I'm sorry to hear about your cousin. When you are able, can you draw a few similarities between Trfel case on VE and his scum cases in Newbie 11? From what I read when I first questioned geript, he is obviously capable as town. When I read the case here he presented two alternatives. My only issue was him dropping or stating he was probably not reading properly and then a bit later looking at him to lynch him which I mentioned the posts in my list post. What do make of that? Probably easiest to see in his filter. | ||
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At first her explanation made sense but my issue with her reservation on ritoky is that she said it was Mafia because other people who make town cases tended to be Mafia. Now here's my only thing. Did she really look at ritokys intention with his case on VE? To me it seemed weird but I have beaten a dead horse with VE. But when reading for context I knew what he was trying to do with the information he had on VE. Would he do something like that as Mafia? Especially with other experienced players seeming having the ability to check on that? I highly doubt it. So one could argue that read is contrived assuming she is reading the thread properly. | ||
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##vote MoosyDoosy | ||
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On November 17 2015 19:11 VisceraEyes wrote: Did Moosy ever come in here and explain what got his panties in a twist earlier? Like, I know a couple people mentioned wanting to lynch him, but full martyr mode barely a day into D1? What was that about? Those who have played with him seem to think it's either town indicative or NAA, but I think maybe getting to the core of his issue might help some to determine his alignment for their own benefit, myself included. People who came in here from newbie 14 (at least 4 of us) know that he faked anger on Rayn not getting saved by the doctor. He was mafia that game and bussed his entire team and fought with them in the mafia qt. I think geript was Mafia coach that game so I believe he can elaborate if he wishes. Breshke drew comparisons between that and this game. From newbie 12-14, Moosy always seems to have a thing for changing or breaking his meta so we can never really trust his emotions or what he's trying to do with them. And in general he's a player who will pull really stupid shit as either alignment if it makes him unreadable. | ||
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264-275 are posts that line up with expectations, saying that bad meta on one game is bad meta. Seeing nothing scummy up to post 297. He had reasoning for questioning Eversince's intentions initially, nothing wrong there. Page 2... | ||
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314 and 325 are the two posts I'm struggling to figure out. It sounds like he's trying to figure it out but he's getting hung up on the word metaread and I honestly can't tell if it's bad or Mafia play. | ||
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On November 17 2015 08:07 Trfel wrote: I don't like VisceraEyes, but I don't really feel comfortable with lynching him right now... It's obvious that VisceraEyes hasn't read the thread super carefully, but I don't think that that makes him mafia. VisceraEyes, when you could get to a computer, if you could post the thoughts you had on the other players, that would be very helpful. Time to study for that exam. On November 17 2015 09:27 Trfel wrote: Show nested quote + Ugh, I hate this so much, but I guess you're probably right...On November 17 2015 09:22 FarahBlackwing wrote: Sure he could, but shoot him/cop check him instead of using a lynch on him if you are so inclined. ##unvote Scott31337 or VisceraEyes stand out the most to me right now. Waiting for Fecalfeast to post his filter analysis, though. am I misreading or misunderstanding? | ||
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I'm still having trouble sorting out his use of the word metaread and whether he's using that interpretation/use of it in a way to scumread Eversince. is it bad or is he really reaching? does anyone who knows him better able to make that call? if I can get some feedback from geript and ritoky who were both pushing his lynch, that would be great. On that alone, I would put the other candidates like scott/moosy ahead of him. | ||
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On November 18 2015 01:56 FarahBlackwing wrote: This is a hard game. And i'm still not sure what to make of disinformation he keeps pointing out these scummy things people do but then ends up with something that could make them town. And really won't commit to a read either way this close to lynch, I almost would rather lynch him at this point maybe. Did you read ritoky's evaluation on him? I responded to it, but we all agreed there are a combination of scum and town tells. Are you seeing the (any) town side of anything he's doing? | ||
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Earlier when ritoky and I were going through his case, we were discussing the town/mafia traits from disformation and there were legit reasons to come to a null read on him or a read with caveats. One towny post from disformation was earlier in the game when I asked him about Shining - see post 433. Does that post look like it came from mafia? 644 was his response to ritoky regarding his latest set of reads. Same question there. | ||
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On Breshke, the ranking explanation between 494 and 507 is sort of meh, so you could argue it is posting for the sake of posting....working my way down and then disformation I will double back on what I saw. | ||
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I really don't know. | ||
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##vote scott31337 | ||
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sorry Scott, ggs. | ||
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On November 18 2015 21:51 FarahBlackwing wrote: I'm going to bed, but I still won't answer you moos because its in my filter. You can't meta someone who has played one game before, its impossible to know how someone generally acts. Game is boring it still is toodles. That's your response to his case? Seriously? I didn't like that either when he first listed it out, but what about the rest of his points? What about the points I brought up in my list post? I read your filter before I went to bed that night and I knew something felt off but I couldn't put my finger on it. I read filters prior to the lynch, and honestly I wasn't feeling the Breshke lynch was appropriate. Now that Moosy isn't dicking around apparently I'm really glad I didn't lynch him because I thought he had some valid points against you. | ||
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On November 18 2015 14:46 geript wrote: Show nested quote + On November 18 2015 04:42 Trfel wrote: There is clearly a direction in Breshke's filter, and there are also some very insightful comments. The latter is the huge part of Breshke's town play, and it's very present this game. Looking through Breshke's filter, here's his direction: Early question to Eversince, ends in town lean Townread on The Shining Town lean on geript and ritoky Scum read on MoosyDoosy Investigating VisceraEyes Willing to lynch MoosyDoosy, Fecalfeast, and scott31337, still trying to figure out VisceraEyes Votes for MoosyDoosy The interesting thing here is that he's actually engaging with his scumreads and trying to get more information. He questioned VisceraEyes with a very sensible progression. His reads make sense and his pushes all have a followup. My points on Breshke covered this entirely. Breshke should not be read on his reads. It's about how he interacts with and acts in response to what's happening in the thread. Him blandly asking questions that go no where and lead to no conclusions is part of his scum meta. So what Trfel has pointed towards is specifically his scum meta and Trfel is trying to paint him town for it. I don't know Trfel and from what I remember of Breshke I don't recall from newbie 13 he was that impactful of a player. I assume you are saying Trfel's is playing beneath expectations since he should know Breshke's meta but I'll let him speak for himself. If I recall right one of Breshke's pushes was on a player (VE) who was largely afk. He kept pressing for questions. It was also fairly clear that thread leaders/etc were saying "trust us VE is town" or whatever so the chances of VE getting lynched were slim to zero. Can you or anyone tell me by your expectations what he should have done? Is there an expectation he should know Fecalfeast, scott or Moosy better? That might be the only way he could be scum but this is probably meta-based which is why when he initially brought up Fecalfeast I didn't think anything of it. I reconsidered considering my initial scumlean on him but not knowing anything else about him I felt the pushes and in general the second page of filter were towny. Am I missing something? | ||
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Fuck my head is spinning. | ||
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On November 18 2015 07:35 MoosyDoosy wrote: Show nested quote + On November 17 2015 20:29 disformation wrote: The lack ofproper trains like 8 hours b4 deadline also worries me. shining wasnt here in ages... maybe setting him on blast will change this... ##unvote ##vote The Shining voting on phone sucks WOAH WOAH SOMEONE GO BACK AND CHECK THIS I told him that Shining is a player that afks for a few days of the week and so his vote to pressure would not have the intended effect. disformation promptly went to work reading filters. this is another example of town tells and mafia tells, yeah he "waffled" like shit and didn't come to conclusions or couldn't and maybe this is because scum don't want to take positions or expose partners maybe but he's demonstrating he is reading the thread and pulling out potential problems. and I think he's a relatively inexperienced player. do newbie scum typically do that? I've been told in the past the answer is no. the read on scott I felt the same thing - why didn't he follow up on Trfel? So that latter part is giving me hesitation in screaming fuck it disformation is mafia. Unless you are making the argument that he is posting just for the sake of posting. Because if you are, then that's a lot of shit he has to be putting up for the sake of putting it up. I mean that's a lot of shit, Moosy. I mean I was doing the same damn thing struggling to decide although I was at the bar at end of cycle so I couldn't post like that but the same principle applies. | ||
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If we have vig shoot Farah. Also Fecalfeast I don't think doc/vet is even possible given the OP. I need to afk for a few hours. | ||
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On November 18 2015 04:59 The Shining wrote: I kind of dont wanna lynch Scott just because of past games. Like I don't really like any of his posts, but I've felt that way before because of his activity and seemingly unexplained posts and reads, especially on D1, and he flipped town more than once. Maybe I'm just scared here. But off this game alone, he's on the scum side of null. It doesn't really feel like he's trying to figure out the game, I agree, but I'm not in much position to judge activity wise. Eversince is not here and still voting Farah. I really don't like it but what can I do when there's a medical excuse involved? And maybe I was nitpicking on her Farrah read, whatever, but I was under the impression a metaread is a read based on how someone played in a past game/games, which is what she did. But I'm not gonna beat a dead horse. Moosy martyring is horribad and he did in fact do this last game but he isn't voting. That's a modkill risk, anyway. I just hope to god if he is town he actually starts playing if he isn't lynched or modkilled here because if we have to carry that into D2 and I end up in triple lylo again, I'm blaming him. Farrah feels town, but not as lock town as I had her last game. The last few posts make me feel better about her, even with the switching back and forth on votes. I don't think scum is going to do that unless one is in fact her scum mate but she wants to apparently lynch both so idk. I honestly don't know what Fecal's done but he was lazy this early last game and ended up helping me figure out the game so idk about him. Null with a slight possibility of lazy town. Trfel has gotten a lot better since my initial suspicion on him, even though a lot of it recently seems to be centered on Scott. Disfo's waffliness seems to be off, although I can kind of understand his hesitance on me since he TRd me at first but had nothing to go off on me since I disappeared until now. But he's voting Scott now so idk if it's scum possibly bussing if Scott is scum or if Scott is really gonna flip town D1 again after this. TLDR I'd lynch Scott, ES, maybe disfo or ff but I'm really iffy on the last 2. ##Vote:Scott31337 Again this was super rushed and I know I have a lot of nulls/town leans but I had a lot to read in a little bit of time so I mostly skimmed filters. I'll be able to do a lot more this night phase and at work tomorrow if I get the chance Hmmmm it reads as if he really had no idea whom to vote for. | ||
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On November 17 2015 11:12 NocturneMage wrote: It's past 2am and I really need to stop now. List post so I know where to pick up later - Town: ritoky - right now, strongest town read Probably town: geript (assuming read/followup on Trfel makes sense) Townlean: Shining - seemed opinionated enough but need to revisit interaction with Eversince Trfel - had no issues with the case or his follow up to VE, although my one reservation on him is how he goes form post 523 on VE to "probably not mafia" to later in his filter to 583 where he cites Scott and VE as standing out for him to lynch. So that is a gap in explanation that needs to be sorted. Breshke - answers to my questions were satisfactory and is pressuring VE for answers. I also notice he is engaging his scumreads and trying to resolve them. VisceraEyes: VisceraEyes - I'm really trying not to be a dick here, but I really cannot understand this guy's play but if I can work him out I'll work with him. Answering Breshke's questions and providing more reads would help. Null: Eversince - just couldn't get around to her today. disformation - there are legitimate town and mafia tells but I would use another day to work on him Fecalfeast - he didn't explain the reads early game, but he openly admitted he was lazy. seems intent on lynching scott and putting pressure on Moosy to play the game which is towny though. My gut says town, but I could be wrong. Scumlean scott - list post was adequate for entrance and reminded me of his past town games or no different, but lack of additional input will move him down on my list. Lack of followup on Trfel is meh. Updates on other reads would help. FarahBlackwing - This is another player I'm seeing both town and mafia attributes but more of the second here. Didn't like her opening and lack of explanation on her reaction test. I didn't agree with post 299 on the lack of emotion because I sensed emotion in his posts. I disagree with her meta (second game ever!) on Shining but I also agreed with her read formation on VE, which makes sense for a new player. She didn't actually provide a read on MoosyDoosy other than frustration. And her final post (594) I don't see how she's townreading Eversince and then calling the exchange odd and saying "some things don't feel forced". Likely mafia: MoosyDoosy - didn't like his entrance, didn't like his martyring (self-meta), didn't like his use of meta, even after explanation, and the push on Farah was just hilariously wrong. ##unvote Folks, if there's shit I missed reading or whatever or if I read something wrong, let me know. I'm coming in on an off day and I plan to lie in a bit tomorrow, but there's a few people I still need to read and follow up on. should be around for the end of the cycle. Good night everyone. Alright, so I need to retrace Farah, and look into more of my null reads. Still also grappling with geript versus Trfel but it wouldn't surprise me in the end if it was town vs town. I think if Trfel could give more reads it might be a bit more helpful. I still don't understand how Farah doesn't like the meta read but uses it on Shining. Was obviously wrong on Scott, probably wrong on Moosy now. I have too many question marks at the moment. Please there better be a cop this game. | ||
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Now seriously afk....this game is a bit addictive xD | ||
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Also geript can you please explain not using meta why Trfel is mafia? Instead of being just wrong? I think I've been asking you that from the beginning and I really can't wrap my head around it. Scott was suspicious of Trfel using another newbie game - does it come down to blowing things out of proportion? If Trfel was malicious I could see him going for townies that are easy to push like disformation. Then again he pushed Scott but he also cased VE whom the thread leaders are ATM protecting so he's risking extra scrutiny or was by pushing VE. Scott said Trfel wrote scummy cases but if I got some insight into how they were scummy that would help me understand. A lot of his points do resonate in my mind so I'm having a lot of difficulties as to why Trfel is pushing Mafia agenda besides all the meta expectations being thrown out. | ||
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On November 19 2015 04:38 FarahBlackwing wrote: Trfel obviously not reading the game Does this make him "bad" or mafia? | ||
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On November 19 2015 04:51 Damdred wrote: Show nested quote + On November 19 2015 04:48 NocturneMage wrote: On November 19 2015 04:38 FarahBlackwing wrote: Trfel obviously not reading the game Does this make him "bad" or mafia? hopefully mafia would make life so much easier What? Why "hopefully"? Are you drawing an association between him and someone else? I've been told unflappable association is not a good thing. | ||
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On November 19 2015 06:13 MoosyDoosy wrote: @NocturneMage, jesus christ do townie things you're freaking me out. Also, if you agree with my read, help me lynch Farah. @Trfel, re-evaluate your reads and get back to me. I want you to seriously consider the Farah lynch. I'm at work mate, another overnight. I have my tablet on me though so I can at least play a little more effectively during my dinner break....which is at midnight my time. ##vote FarahBackwing | ||
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On November 19 2015 06:32 MoosyDoosy wrote: Also this is actually my last post before I go and it's a pun for ya'll. @NocturneMage and @Breshke, even if I'm scum, I'm 100% hard busing my partner here. :D No, just stop this shit please. xD | ||
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On November 19 2015 06:43 Breshke wrote: Show nested quote + On November 19 2015 06:24 FarahBlackwing wrote: Everyone except Ritoky, Eversince and FecalFeast have entered the thread at this point. You claim your shot as soon as you can as vig so that mafia can't create confusion later on with claiming the shot. We can eliminate Ritoky from the list of consideration because he hard town read VE throughout the day even if he dropped a bit due to inactivity. Eversince hasn't been here and didn't respond during the night which makes her highly unlikely to be the vigilante FecalFeast is the best candidate left currently. Sorry not sure how I missed this. I don't think the vigi has to claim straight away but its not worth discussing and i can see why you would think that. I do not like that post from Farah at all. This is day 2, not mylo. I might be somewhat new here, but from all the games I've obsed, I can think of a few decent reasons for the vig waiting to claim. I can't see any town motivation personally for trying to openly out the vig or any blue role for that matter. The Eversince comment is a bad one because you don't know for sure if she's reading and just choosing not to post for medical/whatever and may have just slipped a PM. Who knows. The ritoky comment is bad in the event someone tinfoiled (is that the right English word) geript and scum went bluehunting on VE, which would implicate a veteran, someone who might know VE's play to take a gander on him. You cannot eliminate that possibility. | ||
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On November 19 2015 06:51 NocturneMage wrote: Show nested quote + On November 19 2015 06:43 Breshke wrote: On November 19 2015 06:24 FarahBlackwing wrote: Everyone except Ritoky, Eversince and FecalFeast have entered the thread at this point. You claim your shot as soon as you can as vig so that mafia can't create confusion later on with claiming the shot. We can eliminate Ritoky from the list of consideration because he hard town read VE throughout the day even if he dropped a bit due to inactivity. Eversince hasn't been here and didn't respond during the night which makes her highly unlikely to be the vigilante FecalFeast is the best candidate left currently. Sorry not sure how I missed this. I don't think the vigi has to claim straight away but its not worth discussing and i can see why you would think that. I do not like that post from Farah at all. This is day 2, not mylo. I might be somewhat new here, but from all the games I've obsed, I can think of a few decent reasons for the vig waiting to claim. I can't see any town motivation personally for trying to openly out the vig or any blue role for that matter. The Eversince comment is a bad one because you don't know for sure if she's reading and just choosing not to post for medical/whatever and may have just slipped a PM. Who knows. The ritoky comment is bad in the event someone tinfoiled (is that the right English word) geript and scum went bluehunting on VE, which would implicate a veteran, someone who might know VE's play to take a gander on him. You cannot eliminate that possibility. also the "mafia can't create confusion later with the shot" isn't a good comment at all because we know there's a vig and if they try to fakeclaim, they will be counterclaimed. That play is a one-for-one or not a good strategy for mafia even if they make the vanilla scum do it. back to work, see you at break time. | ||
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On November 19 2015 06:53 FarahBlackwing wrote: I'll head this off now probably not enough time to fight off a snowball. Hard claiming blue. .......or not. someone help me with claim analysis please? if you hard claim you're supposed to claim a role? anyways, why are you claiming so early in the cycle? there are 46 hours left in the damn cycle and you're pulling this shit already? or are you really going to afk for much of the next 46 hours? this doesn't feel right. | ||
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now, see you all in a couple hours. | ||
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On November 19 2015 07:38 FarahBlackwing wrote: Read what I wrote and apply it. Information is king withholding information when you are a glorified vt now is anti-town especially the leathery out wait the more mafia can mess with town. no. this is not entirely true. I learnt in nsm14 (the host in the qt mentioned this, unless people here want to say rsoultin is a bad player but somehow I don't think that's the case???) that wifom analysis is powerful. if you are scum and you find a blue, it gives it an easier way for scum to hide because killing blues generally means there's no excuse for certain people to live or not. additionally the real vet isn't going to claim with 46 hours left in the cycle, piss off, come back and keep saying never lynch an uncounterclaimed blue. you aren't finding scum and your methods don't push town agenda forward in any form. additionally in a best case scenario town can find the roleblocker first and an unclaimed veteran represents currently a 14% chance of stopping kp. unless I've fucked up analysis - I find no town motivation for the way you've approached this. I find enough justification for lynching you. answer me this farah - why did you claim with 46 hours left (an hour ago) in the cycle and why aren't you finding scum? in your method you wanted to know fecalfeast was vig or not, he said he wasn't. so where does that get you? what is your purpose? you aren't saying dick all on that. | ||
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On November 19 2015 08:07 NocturneMage wrote: answer me this farah - why did you claim with 46 hours left (an hour ago) in the cycle and why aren't you finding scum? in your method you wanted to know fecalfeast was vig or not, he said he wasn't. so where does that get you? what is your purpose? you aren't saying dick all on that. farah, your schedule....I get it. I work nights too, and I'm married, although my wife is working abroad until Saturday, but even then I have a life outside work. but what bothers me is that you aren't taking your own method and trying to scumhunt with the little time you do have. and there is a potential mafia motivation I've outlined in post 1089. | ||
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On November 19 2015 08:33 Fecalfeast wrote: Ritoky is correct. Even if the claim feels like buttcheeks it's still uncc'd The only other thing I can think of is wait one cycle and if she is still alive lynch her. I don't understand how or why she isn't moving forward in her world view. Anyways looking at other people in the meantime since we don't win until all three are dead. ##unvote fuck this is irritating. | ||
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On November 19 2015 08:39 Fecalfeast wrote: 1. Unless someone claims a vig shot on Geript, he was the only one adamant about trfel being scum and was getting upset that nobody listened to him. 2. His day 1 suspicions from his filter: VE, Moose, Scott, Me. I know 3/4 of those are town 100% while moose is showing some towny play since yesterday. 3. Totally willing to vote an uncc'd blue because she's martyring. you realise that #1 and most of #2 also apply to Breshke right? A thought to consider if Trfel is town. | ||
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"alright, Fecalfeast isn't vig, he could be scum because of X," or "if fecalfast is town and if some person Y is vig" then I'm down to this method, etc. even in your world you aren't moving town forward also post 1129, Trfel is using the word malicious as in mafia agenda. Not that you were insulting, but your play is mafia play. now I have time to sit down, I will look into eversince, and do the best I can here. at least before 2am. | ||
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On November 19 2015 09:48 disformation wrote: Currently my official read on her is: wtf bananaboat. Which is like 3rd party, but slightly tastier and floating on water. Or rather uncced vet with plays that make no sense for either town nor scum. But I might look at it again, if I am able to figure out what the correct bait for a wtf bananaboat is. as glowingbear told me in my newbie 13 game, scum play to survive. even if we go through a cycle, say we fuck up again and mislynch, night phase passes and she's not taken out, if she gets one mislynch out of that, she's gotten her team closer to victory. 2 mislynches left in that scenario. alright now eversince. | ||
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from newbie 13, I was caught out as mafia on voting analysis. I am decently sure the way moosy's been playing he is probably town now. If that's the case, when both wagons are town, there's a decent shot to look at people who didn't give a shit about the lynch or who got lynched or for players that can hide it well, who had a "fake" reaction to try and get one player lynched over another or a bad reason given read progression. now farah's been cited for this, but who else would this apply? there were some isolated voters obviously and those people will always come into question but two of these are known town now. and eversince, who knows. | ||
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On November 19 2015 10:21 disformation wrote: leaving Breshke: he did vote MD around 5h15 b4 deadline and went to bed. If I look at my huge ass post again (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/497023-newbie-student-mafia-xvii-fullmetal-edition?page=48#948), that starts considering votes from 7h before deadline to deadline, I think this can still be considered early. Next post from Breshke is well into N1. I also don't think that all the mafia are on the scott train. Breshke is Australian so timing might be NAI as he might not have had a choice. I'd focus more on the reasoning and not so much the timing. deadline for me is 8pm. aus has 3 timezones, anywhere from 8-10 hours ahead of me. that would put his deadline at anywhere from 4-6am. I don't know about you but if I was a student (which he said pre-game) and had day classes I highly doubt he could stay up until "close enough" to end of cycle. | ||
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On November 19 2015 10:37 Trfel wrote: How did you arrive at FarahBlackwing being town? I think I know why he said that but I'll let him explain. | ||
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post 253 - I didn't take this seriously. thought she was just trying to bullshit and say stuff as an opening salve. Now as Shining and VE and such are going on page 14, she isn't posting. Could be health, could be lying low. 284 - saw nothing wrong with this post, could be interpreted as poking a hole into the arguement. 293 - responded regarding health, in of itself NAI 308 - On November 16 2015 06:21 Eversince wrote: I mentioned in my earlier post, Viscera is null. He sheeped a random vote I made an hour into this game. If he does squat else followin', I'll take issue. Right now I've already mentioned that, while currently not useful, his post don't seem to push him either way. I haven't,and won't until I get a much better base on people, use meta. I do assume that a WHOLE BUNCH of people do. I've read a number of games on this site. I don't understand everything, but under the assumption that I found him in a few old games on the Team Liquid database, he is one who uses meta. On those standards, he's not done anything to make him tilt scales. Time will tell... strange read on VE not taking a side on his tone, could be trying to avoid confrontation? not sure, but he was town and it's not like she pushed him either. quips about meta are not alignment indicative, typical newbie saying fuck the majority. 312 - nothing really relevant to this game if I read it right, same concern I had as breshke earlier, not really commenting on anything relevant to the game as it goes on. 322 and 328 - I could see this as either alignment | ||
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I'd give an overall scumlean, but very well could be wrong here. back to work. | ||
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Compared to Trfel, he seems less towny although I couldn't initially grasp from ritoky as for why he'd lynch Trfel over Breshke aside from him wanting to lynch Farah whose claim was scummy when it was made. I could understand Fecalfeast's vote on him for that reason although I mentioned that Breshke, the same thing mostly applies except the claim analysis. geript tried to get Breshke lynched d1 and now that we know geript is town and considering his type of read and my initial reservation on Breshke (talking around geript/VE), and geripts history of 30 games, I'm going to assume the meta read is more or less accurate or at the very least we know it was an honest thought from him. not to mention scum really fall off late game, and Breshke's last post irrespective of timezone was.... ....16 hours ago.... I'm looking at Breshke's posts from 1009 and onwards. He's saying disformation and farah are both scum. But they are both scumreading each other. Learnt the hard way from newbie 14 that there was some double bussing going on. there's no explaiantion from Breshke as to why he thinks they are on after each other and disformation has since been a bit more towny. If Farah's claim was true, and without a counterclaim, we have to proceed as if it is true, it was a poor decision, but at least Damdred has a strategy/conditions for when/if/how the vig should claim. I understand it. and this go? Breshke's pushes are a LOT weaker than round 1. he's not as invested in either of them. I think what trfel said is valid, let the moderators deal with Eversince and lynch Breshke unless there is a mechanical reason we have to deal with her now. (do we know if mods modkill or replace or does that even matter? no idea how that shit works.) | ||
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On October 21 2015 18:06 Tictock wrote: Activity: You must make at least Five posts in this thread per day/night cycle and vote every day while you are alive. Roughly speaking, this equates to a bare minimum of one post per 10 hours. If you fail to do so, you will be modkilled or replaced. Replacements This game uses replacements. Players who are inactive may be replaced by other players. well this isn't terribly clear. 10 players left, 7 of which are town 7:3 - what we have now 6:3 - mislynch 5:3 - possible modkill (???) 4:3 - nightkill Well fuck this. I'd like to lynch Breshke but we might actually have to go for the policy lynch if I'm counting this right. There is one replacement though, but I can't predict what the mods are going to do based on the rules so if someone more experienced can suggest the way to go here or what they normally do that might help tremendously. | ||
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as for geript, to be honest....he was town but he could be wrong on people. the reason I suggested his read on Breshke was good is because Breshke's behaviour currently supports what he stated day 1 and it matched my initial concern on Breshke (avoiding the important issues). | ||
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On November 19 2015 22:44 Damdred wrote: Basically thinking would scum trfel get butt hurt the game really didn't listen to him about Scott and partially throw a small tantrum to get people on Scott? Tgere is unflippwd association as breshke being scum heavily implies trfel is as well. Also its worth thinking about where is the waffle in truffles play? Hard to say he's been really sure about everything all game. I'm hoping he's the big trying to make a play Trfel could be mafia based on the so-called WIFOM/NK analysis that rsoultin discussed in newbie 14. But how is there an associative read between Breshke and Trfel? or do you simply mean the fact Trfel's lynching Scott saved Breshke? your first sentence implies that Trfel was being too emotional to be scum, but if there is another post after the lynch that indicates Trfel by association, where is it? nothing has jumped out at me other than the push on Scott, but geript implied (by meta, which again I disregarded because well....it was meta) that Trfel should have known better - he used his town meta to indicate this as Scott's scum meta to get him lynched. Are you experienced enough to make this call? the post in question was post 918 and 925 On November 18 2015 14:39 geript wrote: Show nested quote + On November 18 2015 04:23 Trfel wrote: On November 18 2015 02:24 geript wrote: Look at geript's read on scott31337. It's all association, there is no response to the actual case on him. Geript is avoiding defending scott31337's play, because he knows that it can't be done.Scott 4.5/7--He's still null-ish. This seems kinda funny, but I don't really get the sense that anyone is trying to shield or direct votes towards him. Trfel iirc was the first to sorta toss a vote his way and it didn't seem bussy for cred or protecty for Moosy. It feels a bit TvT on the lynch and his catching up post about ~p30 (or around that area) kinda had similar thoughts to where I thought I was when I was catching up. All association? No. I quite frankly referred to this post + Show Spoiler + On November 17 2015 14:42 scott31337 wrote: I apologize for my last post - I got enough energy to notepad. I'm town. Show nested quote + On November 17 2015 09:19 Trfel wrote: On November 17 2015 09:17 FarahBlackwing wrote: The problem is that he knows this, and he knows that people will say this......Because he did something similar to this last game we played as town, and from what I understand have been informed on he tries a bit harder as scum doesn't roll over. Ugh, this is so frustrating. Weak. Show nested quote + On November 17 2015 09:25 Breshke wrote: On November 17 2015 09:16 Trfel wrote: Breshke, who are your scumreads right now? If you'd like to wait for FarahBlackwing to answer first, that's fine. It's mostly less active people. Something is wrong about mooseys outburst like he HAS rolled scum here before he makes it sound like he never has. He also entered a game where its more likely to roll town than mafia and is having a tantrum that he got the more likely option. Also in the game he was mafia he overreacted to rayn dying (not being saved by the doctor) which was obviously fake and this feels a lot like that. So i don't think anyone should be giving him a pass for having a cry. FF still being lazy so would lynch. Scott aswell. I don't think it is out of the ordinary for scott to not be around for large portions of some phases but when he is around he usually has a big thought dump. He didn't attempt anything like that this game which feels scummy from him. He is lean scum but I wouldn't lynch him over moosey or fecal at this stage. I also am waiting for VE to be around again. This is the Breshke I know I thought from his first post - He's thinking about the game and townie thoughts. Show nested quote + On November 17 2015 09:26 Fecalfeast wrote: Honestly Farah's filter is pretty nice to look at. I mean, the lynch list is kinda butt because I am leaning town on bresh and am fairly certain that I'm town but being wrong is allowed. Is there a case on farah or anything that I'm blatantly missing? arr.. And my virtual townleans have not said anything (Geript, etc.) So I think I'm fooled at least by one. I'm going to sleep - at Page 30 of Ritoky's wall of text. I've had a lot to drink and calling it a night. I'll continue from there. Trfel's been trying but like I said - could be his scummy cases he's done it before Fuck Moosy and his lazy ass town game We will not have it. Geript fell the fuck off once he got townleaned NM has been playing his towngame I'll be up in about 12 hours and bitch that I'm not online and posting. Well suck it I was busy helping out my cousin that I just found out had MS. Show nested quote + On November 18 2015 00:55 Trfel wrote: ##vote scott31337 I won't be able to catch up by the deadline. But scott31337 hasn't shown critical thinking, and his activity has been pretty awful. This post shows a lack of critical thinking in particular, he's trying to say stuff, trying to make an argument, but all he really says is that MoosyDoosy is town because he's town, and because he did the same thing last game as town (which obviously does not make him town). Scott31337 still hasn't taken a stance on me, despite saying that he would many hours ago. Given the lack of original reads and thinking in his posts, I find him getting so upset at MoosyDoosy's play difficult to believe. What the fuck is to respond to here that wasn't already in my summary. I noted that the above quoted scott post was decent which negates the critical thinking thing. Scott's activity being awful is by no means alignment indicative. Trfel's jumping on him for 1 post that's lacked critical thinking. On that run Trfel should absolutely be lynched because Trfel hasn't had 1 good post that requires actual thought. Trfel is literally just picking at minor things that don't matter and aren't alignment indicative. Scott not taking a stance on Trfel is literally irrelevant. Trfel's "case" on scott isn't a case. It's not even a set of good points against scott. Trfel should 100% be shot tonight period. On November 18 2015 14:46 geript wrote: Show nested quote + On November 18 2015 04:42 Trfel wrote: There is clearly a direction in Breshke's filter, and there are also some very insightful comments. The latter is the huge part of Breshke's town play, and it's very present this game. Looking through Breshke's filter, here's his direction: Early question to Eversince, ends in town lean Townread on The Shining Town lean on geript and ritoky Scum read on MoosyDoosy Investigating VisceraEyes Willing to lynch MoosyDoosy, Fecalfeast, and scott31337, still trying to figure out VisceraEyes Votes for MoosyDoosy The interesting thing here is that he's actually engaging with his scumreads and trying to get more information. He questioned VisceraEyes with a very sensible progression. His reads make sense and his pushes all have a followup. My points on Breshke covered this entirely. Breshke should not be read on his reads. It's about how he interacts with and acts in response to what's happening in the thread. Him blandly asking questions that go no where and lead to no conclusions is part of his scum meta. So what Trfel has pointed towards is specifically his scum meta and Trfel is trying to paint him town for it. Critical questions to me (1) did Trfel misrepresent Scott's meta? he has 18 games played in the database. how many of these does he have with Scott? might be time to do some digging and see whether this was below expectations. I have never played with Trfel, and only 2 games with Scott but I can try and take an educated guess if I can count. (2) did Trfel misrepresent Breshke's meta? honestly I read Breshke's filter and came to the opposite conclusion but like I said I don't know these people. I really need some veteran input on this. | ||
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"nothing has jumped out at me other than the push on Scott, but geript implied (by meta, which again I disregarded because well....it was meta) that Trfel should have known better - he used his town meta to indicate this as Scott's scum meta to get him lynched." should be instead: "nothing has jumped out at me other than the push on Scott, but geript implied (by meta, which again I disregarded because well....it was meta) that Trfel should have known better - he used traits for scott that were not alignment indicative to indicate this as Scott's scum meta to get him lynched." | ||
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Placing it here for now. Database digging and then I have to go in for a research seminar at 3pm. | ||
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Trfel - 18 games, 3 as scum, 1 as third party Scott - 14 games, 3 as scum next step - go to the games where they both overlapped and scott was town Scott was town in 11 of the 14 games he played on TL. Trfel was present in the following games. (1) Newbie 11 - Trfel was mafia that game (2) Gaiden - Trfel was town (3) Battle of the Drams - Trfel was town Also Scott was in Completely normal generic mafia which Trfel observed. so he has three games' worth of meta knowledge and possibly more on scott where scott was town. is this information enough to say that he should have known better? I have to stop here but the question might lie in reads he made outside this game. particularly in Gaiden and Battle of the Drams where Trfel was town. but three games? gut reaction says yes he should have known better. can anyone discuss? | ||
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Part 1 of 3: Trfel's expectation on Scott posted previously - link below with previous questions part 1: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/497023-newbie-student-mafia-xvii-fullmetal-edition?page=60#1198 geript's initial callout: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/497023-newbie-student-mafia-xvii-fullmetal-edition?page=60#1195 Part 2 of 3: Trfel's case on VisceraEyes - misinformed or malicious Trfel - 18 games, 3 as scum, 1 as third party VisceraEyes - 80 games (holy fuck mate you are an addict), 18 as scum, 5 as third party next step - games where trfel and viscera overlap (1) TL Mafia LXX: Guardians of the Galaxy (2) Aperture 4: This Time It's Personal (3) Assassination Mafia (4) Tropical Storm Mini Mafia - Trfel was mafia (5) Gaiden 2 - Trfel was mason, VE was mafia now, tbf, only problem here, case wasn't based on meta. ritoky and geript both had ve as town. at least one of them said ve isn't the most towny player in the world. did trfel take advantage of that? should he have known better that ve isn't a towny player? 5 games with VE, 4 of those with the relevant alignment for VE. should he have known better than to jump on VE? 5 games is a decent chock of experience. Gut reaction, I'm going to say yes here. questions for veterans (1) does VE as town get mislynched a lot? (2) is he a common target for mafia players to push? (3) based on what ritoky/geript said earlier my initial guess is yes. but if you have more information, it would help me a lot here as a newb if nothing else, the data is conclusive that VE is a mafia addict. someone get him a referral to mafiaholics counselling centre please. but right now? if meta expectations hold and given that trfel has used meta at least once on geript this game (that post where he said "geript should know X" remember that?)....it's not looking good for trfel. part 3 of 3: Trfel's defence of Breshke - does it make sense? Trfel - 18 games, 3 as scum, 1 as third party Breshke - 20 games, 2 as scum next step - games where trfel and breshke were scum and town Trfel was not present in games where Breshke was scum. Games present together where Breshke was town (1) Student Mafia IV (2) TL Mafia LXX: Guardians of the Galaxy (3) Noir Mini Mafia (4) Newbie Student Mafia VII (5) TL Mafia LXXI: Gaiden 5 games with Breshke when Breshke was town. That's enough information I feel to realise that Breshke if town here, could be falling below town expectations. MAFIA PLAY/AGENDA ALERT - he implicated that for scott for a scum meta, so the data is here, why not for Breshke? he said "geript should know X", why not "Breshke should do X"???? so at the very least geript's statement regarding misrepresentation of of Breshke's reads could be valid. Overall Conclusion: I think between the numbers alone on here, likely meta expectations, his casing of VE to be incorrect (with possible mafia expectations versus what he should know already on VE), his push on geript based on "geript should know X", if Farah/Damdred is vet and the proceedings against, or as others have put it trying to push an uncounterclaimed blue, NK/WIFOM analysis if geript was the nightkill, there's a better than decent chance Trfel is scum. [/b] like I'm not doing bloody meta reads folks. I'm trying to answer objective questions on expectations because geript threw meta expectations out. his alignment and the database game numbers support this. I hope you understand me. If not I can break it down another way. unless the database is fucked you can't argue with these. questions? comments? I think we have a Trfel/Breshke/+1 mafia team. I think someone is looking enough town just enough to fool us, and I think it might be Trfel. next steps - did Trfel and Breshke interact with each other in thread? | ||
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I want every person to comment on post 1203. | ||
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the issue is that trfel could be working on a mafia agenda which I want people to discuss, I have a second post coming up. the big question is why he prioritised scott over breshke. it's a double standard. he takes one game to explain that breshke doesn't have a towny game which I can agree with. but scott has 11 games as town, 7 games where he's mislynched and 3 of those games mislynched as day 1. IDK. you don't have to read filters to understand that scott doesn't have a towny game either. the thing is scum play to survive. I realise why trfel said breshke has a towny followup, but was it really scum like for geript saving scott when he had the justification to do so? (or was it understandable in his own view for trfel to say that geript was scummy for trying to save scott?) | ||
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On November 20 2015 02:41 disformation wrote: Show nested quote + On November 20 2015 01:20 NocturneMage wrote: Part 1 of 3: Trfel's expectation on Scott The link to geripts initial callout leads to another of your posts? And while we are at it: what is the so-called WIFOM/NK analysis? Can you explain, or at least post a link? geript's original posts were quoted in my post. If you want to see geript's original post it's post 918 and 925, it's quoted inside what I posted. the wifom/nk analysis I refer to is from newbie 14 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/493411-newbie-student-mafia-xiv-firefly?page=176#3506 specifically: On September 22 2015 09:06 rsoultin wrote: As a sidenote, HTS is right about the Slam NK (fidei, this is for you). It doesn't make much sense for anyone to NK slam, however it makes much less sense for either Slam or scott to NK one another and then try to convince one of the most townread to lynch one of the other most townread over them. Simply put, they are very unlikely to do that as it makes it almost impossible for them to win. The WIFOM isn't worth the struggle. That NK meant someone in a stronger position: you or Moosy. The way Moosy started D6 with his constantly changing story and endless missteps also might have been a clue. But he played well and you shouldn't feel bad for missing this. Another thing to note...there were times where Moosy did something I've seen recently from scum!ruxxar as well...namely scumreading someone by lecturing them on how a good townie should play. It's an odd mindset for town to have. Town usually says "I think x is scum for y, and if they're town they're awful for doing this." It was reversed for the newbie scum. "Good town should do x and since you didn't I think you're scum." <- see the difference in the mindset? what this basically means is that geript was pushing Breshke and Trfel and will make it hard for them to win if they are scum. yes it's wifom, no it's not fully definitive but it's something to consider. Yeah, he was wrong on VE. But I have 0 clue as to how to figure out if he should have known better or not. You could play 100 games with sicklucker and still don't know how to read him. I have like 0 experience with VE, so I have no clue how hard/easy he is to read. this is why I asked the questions I did for the veterans. scott has already demonstrated one case of where trfel can put a case together and get people lynched. so it's a caveat in his play. Can you link that for me? I went through trfel's filter with a Strg+F on "geript" but wasn't able to find that. Wasn't he saying scott should now better about geript and that makes scott mafia? On November 18 2015 04:21 Trfel wrote: Wait, what the heck? This push onto Breshke is so mafia-motivated. I don't trust geript at all here. Look at scott31337's townread of geript. He just says that geript is a top town. Notice that he repeatedly says "Trfel could be scum or he could be town" in response to me solving the game and pushing my ideas. He never describes any difference between me and geript, just uses the fact that I had one good game as scum to avoid townreading me. But geript is better than me at mafia, by far, and scott31337 knows this. It's impossible for him not to know that geript is extremely skilled as mafia. So now geript comes up with this push out of nowhere to prevent scott31337 from being lynched? I don't like this one bit. That came from the geript is better than me at mafia, but even then this is a double standard because he's using a fear read (basically fearing geript as mafia) and holding scott to that standard and then using the same sentence to say that scott, in fearing trfel as mafia was unreasonable to do so. "scott should have known X" is still just as bad. the problem is, is that he's cherry picking because scott saw a townread in VE from geript that also resonated with him. the problem is that Trfel is saying "scott should have known" which isn't necessarily a reasonable assumption. from this scott at least took into consideration geript was possibly running mafia play: On November 17 2015 00:47 scott31337 wrote: I'm here and catching up From the games I've observed of VE - this is fairly spot on - He also shows a lot more emotion/caps/etc as town. From geript's first message I thought it could be a pocket, but I'm going to slight townlean/not lynching on both of them for now. I've read Trfel's "case" twice and I'm still not seeing it - Show nested quote + On November 16 2015 06:24 Trfel wrote: VisceraEyes VisceraEyes makes two posts showing suspicion of The Shining. + Show Spoiler + On November 16 2015 05:35 VisceraEyes wrote: Show nested quote + On November 16 2015 05:34 The Shining wrote: Farrah your logic is flawed. I rolled scum a few games ago which means I'm due for another 10 town games, which this is. Your instant vote is pretty uncalled for so early, with so many people missing but I'll chalk it up to interesting entrance. How far you plan on pushing this obvious policy lynch? Actually all the entrances so far suck. No TRs, town Y u make this so hard? No townreads = trying to keep options open. Marfia. On November 16 2015 05:37 VisceraEyes wrote: Like statistically speaking you could just close your eyes and point at a townie, so the fact that you can't trust ANYONE with so many having posted is a huge red flag for me. After these posts, VisceraEyes treats The Shining like he is town, specifically by telling The Shining how to properly play as town. + Show Spoiler + On November 16 2015 05:43 VisceraEyes wrote: As for finding scum not town, it's infinitely easier to narrow down your search by correctly identifying townies. This is known. On November 16 2015 05:45 VisceraEyes wrote: Show nested quote + On November 16 2015 05:44 The Shining wrote: If you want me to explain, the logic of closing your eyes and finding a town less than an hour to d1 by just pointing means statistically you have a higher chance of finding town by being random. By that same logic, snap voting this early on D1 means it has a higher chance of landing on town. Farrah why do you think the game is boring less than an hour after it started? That feels pretty ñonsensical. Things have to happen for it to be exciting, or boring. Deciding its boring on the 3rd post of the game is pretty weird. And AS I said, it wasn't a random snap vote. It's a vote placed with reason. You may or may not agree with the reason, that's your prerogative and should affect whether or not you place your vote. Not mine. <3 Furthermore, Eversince's post on FarahBlackwing has a very large logical flaw, in that The Shining hadn't posted at the time. Eversince is comparing a townread based on actual posts to a vote with zero reason from this game, which does not work. VisceraEyes knows much better than this. This isn't VisceraEyes pushing The Shining, this is VisceraEyes reading incorrectly and flailing wildly at The Shining with words that don't match his stance. I'm really not sure what to make of this - and it was coincidentally after geript's "do something or you die post".... mmm I'll see if this is explained more farther down in the thread. Show nested quote + On November 16 2015 06:28 geript wrote: That trfel post is really, really terrible. I'm not off then. | ||
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to be fair people didn't have appropriate responses to him and even I asked geript to separate bad Trfel from mafia Trfel. when you add that up with his willingness to lynch farah - there was a point where I stopped myself as much as it pissed me off because mechanically we can afford to wait one cycle and then resolve, he still insisted on lynching her instead of finding the other two mafia, it makes me quite nervous. | ||
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but if we decide eversince could be vig, then go with breshke for the lynch. need to grab dinner. | ||
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On November 19 2015 08:00 The Shining wrote: Disfo you get half a town point just for being the only one to mention that post tbh. I'm not gonna quote it and stretch the thread out but this is in response to 1072. First point. Right I dont want to but I did anyway cuz I felt it necessary to point out. Yolo. And considering ES was one of the only players I had directly interacted with, it would make sense that she was the read I was most sure of. No I didn't miss that post and I won't go into wifom territory on whether scum ritoky would do that or not. The point I was trying to make is that he himself claimed he tried to get a switch. But he can't really say he did that when that Scott post and his switch were all at the last possible minute. It just looked like he said that to make himself look good. Skipping the fair enough. I agree with you there. But if Moosy is in fact town, then I'm more inclined to think the early voters that never moved are more likely scum than the vote switchers. Like if town is getting lynched regardless, scum has no motivation to move back and forth a bunch of times. So you think Farrah is scum then? I believe someone asked you before to show when and where your null read on her became scum. Can you do that now? What do you think of her blue claim? Yeah I'll get around to Trfel soon. I dislike ritoky for seeing what I see in ES then scumming me and asking why anyone TRs me for it. And misrepresenting himself as someone who tried to get ppl off Scott when there wasn't enough time for that to even happen. And I was finding him suspicious enough to revisit my townread on him. I'm not saying he's a full blown scumread but I do have question marks now. not sure if above is fully true, trying to grasp wagons and thread sentiment is hard...tried to map timing of votes to the tracker below.... to note assuming all claims are true: On November 18 2015 05:00 Tictock wrote: Day 1 Final Votecount scott31337 (6): MoosyDoosy (4): FarahBlackwing (1): Eversince, Fecalfeast (1): VisceraEyes Breshke (1): geript, The Shining (0): Trfel (0): VisceraEyes (0): mooseydoosey (0): disinformation (0): copied from tracker if we can ferret thread sentiment votes. not sure though. Day 1 FarahBlackwing voted for shining <------start disformation voted for scott31337 Eversince voted for Farahblackwing VisceraEyes voted for Farahblackwing FarahBlackwing unvoted FarahBlackwing unvoted MoosyDoosy voted for FarahBlackwing VisceraEyes unvoted VisceraEyes voted for Fecalfeast NocturneMage voted for MoosyDoosy scott31337 voted for Trfel disformation unvoted disformation voted for MoosyDoosy NocturneMage voted for VisceraEyes NocturneMage unvoted NocturneMage voted for VisceraEyes MoosyDoosy unvoted MoosyDoosy voted for MoosyDoosy <---------effective start of Moosy wagon, 21 hours left Trfel voted for MoosyDoosy <-------------- 20 hours, 45 min Fecalfeast voted for mooseydoosey Fecalfeast unvoted Trfel unvoted Fecalfeast voted for mooseydoosey <------------------ 19 hours 10 minutes NocturneMage unvoted scott31337 unvoted ritoky voted for the shining <----------- 8 hours 30 minutes disformation unvoted disformation voted for The Shining <----------8 hours before deadline - I told him this was useless disformation unvoted disformation voted for MoosyDoosy <---------------- 7 hours prior to deadline NocturneMage voted for MoosyDoosy Breshke voted for MoosyDoosy <----------------- 5 hours 45 minutes prior to deadline - FIRST AND ONLY vote Trfel voted for scott31337 <---------------------5 hours prior to deadline FarahBlackwing voted for Scott31337 FarahBlackwing unvoted FarahBlackwing voted for disinformation scott31337 voted for Moosydoosy geript voted for Breshke <----- 2 hours 30 minutes FarahBlackwing unvoted FarahBlackwing voted for Breshke <--------- 2 hours 10 minutes disformation unvoted disformation voted for Breshke <------------ 1 hour 30 minutes FarahBlackwing unvoted FarahBlackwing voted for Scott31337 <------------ 12 minutes left Fecalfeast voted for scott31337 <------------ 10 minutes left disformation unvoted disformation voted for Scott31337 <--------7 minutes left ritoky unvoted ritoky voted for scott31337 <------------1 minute left The Shining voted for Scott31337 NocturneMage voted for scott31337 <-------deadline, my vote was right on at 2000 ritoky unvoted ritoky voted for moosydoosy Trfel's vote on scott31337 was five hours prior to lynch. Shining's reads are back and forth on ritoky but I'm hoping there's some pickup today because I'm not terribly sure where he stands on people now. Last page of filter not saying much. Did Breshke have an actual "good" reason to vote Moosy? curious. the vote counter map....well we know Breshke voted early but previously discussed timezones could have fucked him over, but reason for Moosy at the time was.....? Fecalfeast COULD be problematic....18 hours between first and final vote. ritoky voted shining early but read was supported and went to bed, probably not mafia based on this. Eversince isolated vote....no idea. I'd say of all these votes, Trfel, Fecalfeast and Breshke look the worst based on timing of votes, reads I'd have to double check the latter two but.... Breshke's timing of the vote is NAI based on timezone but it was his first and only vote (the fact he didn't vote ve as he was pushing) but I don't recall the reason to take out moosy as being that great. | ||
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long gap between the Fecalfast votes. Breshke also voted when the votes were pretty piled up on MoosyDoosy, that also looks pretty bad for him I think. | ||
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Another night at work in an hour so I'm out. Will lie in after that, some time in the afternoon I think and then I will be around for about 2 hours through end of cycle. | ||
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On November 20 2015 14:11 MoosyDoosy wrote: Show nested quote + On November 20 2015 14:04 Trfel wrote: On November 20 2015 12:58 Damdred wrote: Where the heck does this come from?Seriously you've done nothing but soft to hard defend breshke all game and why? I've been posting more analysis than anyone, making more cases than everyone else combined. I've pushed my suspicions to the best of my ability as well. Just because I was wrong does NOT change the amount of effort that I've put into this game or how invested I've been in this game. The fact that you can even think of simplifying my play to a defense of Breshke is unbelievable. I have an exam tomorrow morning. I found one mafia. I gave a POE list with my reads (yes, the people not on the list have good reason to be town). That means that unless I messed up, there are two mafia in the other three. I'll go worry about my exam now, we can worry about the other mafia later. No, he makes a good point. You're pointing fingers at basically everyone EXCEPT for Breshke which is highly suspicious. I tried to outline this agenda earlier but he said the reasons were crappy. It's not his arguments I have a problem with, it's his agenda. | ||
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On November 21 2015 00:38 Trfel wrote: The question about all I'm doing is defending Breshke? All I'm doing is trying to lynch scum. All I've done is try to lynch scum. If people are going to be stupid and lynch someone for no reason instead of scum, then I'll tell them why their reasons are stupid. Trfel my biggest issue with you is you aren't considering why people's reasons are changing. (1) Breshke's posting not since 24 hours - I have been told in the past that scum tend to fall off. In theory when lynch options close off it gets harder for them to come up with scumreads (2) Play has not been consistent and you've been treating it as if it has been consistent. Namely I thought his play day 1 was towny, and the pushes that we described for day 1 are lacking for day 2 and the particulars of his engagement day 2 are more scummy than they were day 1. It isn't "towny enough" or whatever descriptors you use for day 2. (3) There are 1-2 observations in the voting analysis that don't make Breshke (and possibly others) look very good either. For starters, he only voted once - why didn't he take a stand or a vote earlier? Why not VE? Why not whoever he was pushing earlier? Like why aren't you asking those questions? And these are pretty damn good reasons to lynch him. The issue with you "pushing scum" is that if you are mafia - and this is what I was taught in my mafia game newbie 13 - you can just get in a mindset enough (I think that is how glowbing bear put it) to be towny. From the database you have had enough experience as scum to at least realise this. Like right now you are talking around Fecalfeast. I will ask you the same thing I asked VE earlier this game.... Why didn't you just directly query him if you had issues with him? I am pretty sure you two were in the thread at the same time. Like your approach to Fecalfeast, I think he even responded something like "congrats you made a case on town" and you didn't even bother to ask him about his reads. The other thing is that you are framing that case without considering any possible towny behaviour. Like I said earlier he's being obvious about being lazy and doesn't seem to give much of a shit and unless there's a meta that this game is screaming about Fecalfeast like it was done VE, and for him it doesn't appear to be the case, then at least you have to consider that his not giving a shit from time to time would go against scum play. Obviously there's a PoE factor that comes into play and if he's still alive in mylo or whatever then it can be another story. But do you really think he's highest likeliness to be scum? But now? I'm not buying your line of play. | ||
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I am more than happy to start a second legitimate wagon on Trfel to be quite honest. | ||
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On November 20 2015 07:27 ritoky wrote: 3) I don't think trfel and breshke are together and I think trfel is mafia. I say this primarily because of setup. It is a set-up with only a 50% chance of having investigative power and a guaranteed GF. This means that distancing and busing are more optimal than hard defense and aligning; and trfel has been REALLY defending breshke (like since p1 of his filter defending) pretty much all game. I think both trfel and breshke are good enough players to recognize that about the setup and I sincerely doubt that trfel hard defends his partner so early. Probably a case of mafia trying to pocket town. imo lynch pool right now should be something like: trfel - reasons above ever - already said why ff - hasn't shit town rainbow yet, disengaged shining - same as before + extra dropoff + not scum hunting. no I don't think this makes you mafia, but I do not understand the setup speculation and the correspondence to mafia strategy that you are explaining here. don't scum team already know the setup? I think Trfel and Breshke are mafia for separate reasons. Shining's voting (when and how) is somewhat suspicious as I previously posted but I need to look at bit closer at what he's posting, because when you are posting so infrequently it's hard to tell if he's rolling with thread sentiment or.... | ||
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##unvote ##vote Trfel I am pretty sure they are both mafia, we have a claimed veteran right? I wonder if scum might have a stake however small to protect their roleblocker so they can off the veteran in one shot? especially for someone so towny like Damdred in the most likely scenario that Farah's claim was true. | ||
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On November 21 2015 01:35 Damdred wrote: Show nested quote + On November 21 2015 01:27 NocturneMage wrote: Damdred I'm not the most experienced player in the world, but I can see why you are saying everyone voting him makes you nervous. I am more than happy to start a second legitimate wagon on Trfel to be quite honest. Problem is I think that we have two policy lynches, ie ever and Breshke. Someone who has acted crummy Breshke and ff to an extent. Trfel who is a hard line. And the worst thing is I think Trfel is town out of all this Ever is honestly a coin flip. From her content alone, I had her as a scumlean but even if this was day 1 I wouldn't be screaming "she is mafia must lynch now" if there is a strategic reason as I asked before to go for a straight policy lynch then town need to fully agree on it like I said before either go for a higher likeliness of scum (and I honestly would lynch Breshke over Trfel but if votes are scaring people then....) or go for the straight policy lynch because I have no bloody idea what the mods will do and I don't think we should be thinking about that anyhow. like does anyone else other than Trfel have adequate reason to think at this stage of the game Breshke is town? | ||
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now tbf it is stupid late in Aus though right now (1640 here, so past midnight at least over there) and if Breshke does pop on, though I'll be on mobile for next 2 hours I do want to ask him questions about where he is. | ||
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On November 21 2015 01:42 Damdred wrote: Let's say just for argument sake that Trfel and Breshke are scum together. I think it's possible but unlikely at this stage. What's the play exactly? Everyone has basically piled onto Breshke but scum!Trfel instead of going for the town cred starts pushing on fecalfeast? If Breshke flips scum where does that leave trfel? I'll let you answer first before I keep going nm well in newbie 13, you tagged me for being the last player to bus my scum teammate. I still remember that. if scum Trfel were to just pile on late in ths game here, he'd be tagged for bussing, or at least he should be. he wouldn't be getting the credit. so he has to find some other reason to push someone else who he feels isn't doing anything. if trfel piled on breshke, he gets no credit, and as I remember from 13 he will be suspected for bussing. I think he has to find a reason to push someone because he might just have no choice here. | ||
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And disformation did he? I thought Trfel said he gives replacements a days pass? | ||
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Breshke voting Moosy you mean? That was NOT against thread sentiment! I traced the votes. Look at my post where I had the vote counter votes all lined up. Breshke was the last vote on Moosy before everyone started switching to Scott. | ||
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Also I am pretty sure Damdred's question was with respect to his vote day 1 not now and that Trfel quote is day 2? | ||
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On November 21 2015 01:52 Damdred wrote: Now final question ans probable the best question. Why does scum!Trfel push town!Scott over town!moosey when moosey was dead in thewater? On November 18 2015 00:55 Trfel wrote: ##vote scott31337 I won't be able to catch up by the deadline. But scott31337 hasn't shown critical thinking, and his activity has been pretty awful. This post shows a lack of critical thinking in particular, he's trying to say stuff, trying to make an argument, but all he really says is that MoosyDoosy is town because he's town, and because he did the same thing last game as town (which obviously does not make him town). Scott31337 still hasn't taken a stance on me, despite saying that he would many hours ago. Given the lack of original reads and thinking in his posts, I find him getting so upset at MoosyDoosy's play difficult to believe. On November 18 2015 01:05 Trfel wrote: I don't want to lynch The Shining. He said that he was trying to do more work right when the game began to make up for not being able to play Monday and Tuesday, and his posting rate was much higher than it generally is. In addition to activity, his posts show attempts to gain information. Many of The Shining's scum games show fewer, larger posts to try and stay alive, rather than trying to pressure things to gain information. FarahBlackwing's post about The Shining was very good, particularly with regards to The Shining's slight shows of emotion this game. It's very different from The Shining's most recent mafia game. I could lynch MoosyDoosy, but I'm more confident in scott31337. MoosyDoosy is a wild card, scott31337 generally puts forward a good effort as town. On November 18 2015 01:22 Trfel wrote: Show nested quote + I guess, I feel like time will take care of MoosyDoosy a bit better than it will scott31337. Scott31337 will probably continue to play in about the same way, and I feel like his play to this point is very revealing already (more what's not there than what is).On November 18 2015 01:11 disformation wrote: @Trfel I get your what you are saying on MoosyDoosy vs Scott and I could vote for both atm, but: as you said MoosyDoosy is a wildcard. How do you propose we handle him? I fear he will just continue to be a wildcard and at some point town has to deal with that. MoosyDoosy's play certainly can't become any less helpful, as he's shown some investment to the game despite asking to be lynched. It's hard to explain my thoughts, maybe I'm just being insane, but I can't see him playing for a significant period of time while putting a bit of effort into the game and also asking to be lynched. And whatever change he makes from that balance would probably be telling. This is from day 1. Does Trfel have THAT strong of a preference between either Scott or Moosy? Timing of votes, we know both wagons day 1 were town. From my tracker ordering. Day 1 FarahBlackwing voted for shining <------start disformation voted for scott31337 Eversince voted for Farahblackwing VisceraEyes voted for Farahblackwing FarahBlackwing unvoted FarahBlackwing unvoted MoosyDoosy voted for FarahBlackwing VisceraEyes unvoted VisceraEyes voted for Fecalfeast NocturneMage voted for MoosyDoosy scott31337 voted for Trfel disformation unvoted disformation voted for MoosyDoosy NocturneMage voted for VisceraEyes NocturneMage unvoted NocturneMage voted for VisceraEyes MoosyDoosy unvoted MoosyDoosy voted for MoosyDoosy <---------effective start of Moosy wagon, 21 hours left Trfel voted for MoosyDoosy <-------------- 20 hours, 45 min Fecalfeast voted for mooseydoosey Fecalfeast unvoted Trfel unvoted Fecalfeast voted for mooseydoosey <------------------ 19 hours 10 minutes NocturneMage unvoted scott31337 unvoted ritoky voted for the shining <----------- 8 hours 30 minutes disformation unvoted disformation voted for The Shining <----------8 hours before deadline - I told him this was useless disformation unvoted disformation voted for MoosyDoosy <---------------- 7 hours prior to deadline NocturneMage voted for MoosyDoosy Breshke voted for MoosyDoosy <----------------- 5 hours 45 minutes prior to deadline - FIRST AND ONLY vote Trfel voted for scott31337 <---------------------5 hours prior to deadline FarahBlackwing voted for Scott31337 FarahBlackwing unvoted FarahBlackwing voted for disinformation scott31337 voted for Moosydoosy geript voted for Breshke <----- 2 hours 30 minutes FarahBlackwing unvoted FarahBlackwing voted for Breshke <--------- 2 hours 10 minutes disformation unvoted disformation voted for Breshke <------------ 1 hour 30 minutes FarahBlackwing unvoted FarahBlackwing voted for Scott31337 <------------ 12 minutes left Fecalfeast voted for scott31337 <------------ 10 minutes left disformation unvoted disformation voted for Scott31337 <--------7 minutes left ritoky unvoted ritoky voted for scott31337 <------------1 minute left The Shining voted for Scott31337 NocturneMage voted for scott31337 <-------deadline, my vote was right on at 2000 ritoky unvoted ritoky voted for moosydoosy Trfel's vote on scott31337 was five hours prior to lynch. Probably need to see when he started pushing scott relative to the votes on moosy because scott was an easier person to push based on the lack of activity. When both wagons are town (and I am assuming Moosy's claim is true) scum can't be so obvious in not caring about the lynch, but Trfel came up with a decent reason to take scott over moosy from these quotes. Hmmmm. Same double standard question folks - why does he make the assumption taht Moosy's play could change or will become more clear, ignoring the claim and scott's won't become clear? why only bring up "lurky" fecalfeast now and not day 1? "scott's play is already revealing" so why not fecalfeast? shining was obvious from schedule at the time so I'll skip him, but again I ask, why the double standard? does anyone remotely think he sounds like he cares about who is getting lynched? | ||
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scott versus moosydoosy, was he really convinced? look at that reply. and that case on scott, why couldn't he have made the same assumption about say fecalfeast? the same explanation could have been given for moosy from a different angle. shining and ever at the time I understand for the lapse in activity day 1 a reasonable assumption can be drawn there as to why to ignore them, everyone did or nearly everyone. this really doesn't feel right. breshke to lynch for sure, but if trfel isn't number 2 then I don't know what the bloody hell he's doing. | ||
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and that setup reason, I realise it's not definitive, it's a possibility and depending on what breshke flips if he flips, that could provide some definition for finding the second mafia. | ||
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also disformation or whoever said that moosydoosy or damdred would chance eversince never returning and fakeclaiming....that's sort of on the lines not playing to moderator actions as either alignment. we don't know what the mods will do, or at least I don't. lets say the moderators modkill eversince and she flips vigilante.... ....well then, that blows scumteam strategy out of the water. let's say they replace her and the replacement claims first thing. same problem for mafia. | ||
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with breshke and eversince abstaining. 80 minutes until deadline. need to make dinner. | ||
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Also look at geript's last post when he voted Breshke. He rated moosy pretty highly from before. On November 18 2015 02:24 geript wrote: A few things. Moosey 5.5/7--I think Moosy might be town. It's kinda impossible to tell, but I liked his Farah read. I don't think the read is good, but Moosy tends (as town) to be staunch on some really out there read that no one else sees. Yes, he does the same thing as scum. Yes, IMO he'll do anything he'd do as town as scum including acting like an ass. I don't have a super strong read on him that I can make a town case on him, but I feel about as strong about the read on him as I did in the last game (where I was tracker and was trying to decouple him and scumdred). The thing that really makes me think he's town isn't just his outburst around the Farah thing; more importantly it's how he comes back to it later on. The bounce back on was really, really towny I think. It's this, "I want to fuck people over and I don't want to fuck people over" dissonance that I don't think he can really fake as mafia. Scott 4.5/7--He's still null-ish. This seems kinda funny, but I don't really get the sense that anyone is trying to shield or direct votes towards him. Trfel iirc was the first to sorta toss a vote his way and it didn't seem bussy for cred or protecty for Moosy. It feels a bit TvT on the lynch and his catching up post about ~p30 (or around that area) kinda had similar thoughts to where I thought I was when I was catching up. Shining 5.5/7--I could be wrong on him; it's not just the fact that he's quoting in every post or thereabouts. He's no over explainy which he does as mafia. He's not really disconnected from the thread. He's had a good thought or two. Meta fits which is enough for now. ##Vote: Breshke--Breshke has 2 posts that I semi-like. The problem being that they say things that are easy to say and don't really add anything. The problem that I have with Breshke is that when he's town his posts bounce off the thread and interact with the thread. By this, I don't mean Breshke asks things to people and stuff. Rather, he'll see a thought or something in the thread that spurns a new thought, a new direction. It's as if he reads something and it gets put together with something else to form something slightly old mixed with something new. There's also the fact that in general, he's asking far more isolated questions of people than I remember him doing; especially when he drops them as if he doesn't care about them. In either case he would hae been goign against geript and he was saving Breshke either way. | ||
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On November 21 2015 03:58 Damdred wrote: Here's the thing, when you have two town up for lynch and you know the setup why push town Scott when it's highly likely in that situation that Breshke or Scott dies? Now let's say momentum is going directly onto Breshke because of geript. By the posts own admission Trfel thinks moosey is the second likely scum but wants Scott first. Why hard defend Breshke against geript and push town Scott more when its just as good to say both Scott and moosey are town I'll help hammer moosey and I can get afk Scott tommorow? It makes less sense of scum to do than you thunk. This makes him less likely scum, unless you think that Breshke would be lynched and Trfel was trying to save him,no matter what and wanting to go against town geript to bring more ! negative attention. if you're asking whether scum Trfel would try to avoid negative attention as scum, my counter to that with the previous quote was that either way he has to go against geript, so that doesn't help him one way or another unless I'm misunderstanding your question. | ||
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Farah had her vote on disformation and only switched to scott at end. Wait Trfel had voted for Scott before all the votes were finished piling on Moosy though, scott voted Moosy after that. Hmmmmm. Still if those votes are split, that exposes Breshke, so that's a problem for scum Trfel. then again geript comes in screaming at the thread saying for people to get off moosy to begin with. so it's still possible that trfel piling on moosy would have gotten him in trouble. geript was going squarely for breshke. moosy had at most 5-6 votes that point in the game, and trfel's vote on scott CAME BEFORE ANY OF THE VOTES ON BRESHKE DID. It wouldn't have mattered. Because you know what? If Breshke had gotten enough votes, I am pretty sure that Trfel would have gotten back right on Breshke. Breshke only had 3 max votes at any point. | ||
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On November 21 2015 04:26 NocturneMage wrote: It wouldn't have mattered. Because you know what? If Breshke had gotten enough votes, I am pretty sure that Trfel would have gotten back right on Breshke. Breshke only had 3 max votes at any point. ebwop misstatement. I am pretty sure that Trfel would have gotten back right on MoosyDoosy - because of either alignment, Trfel is going to lynch a scum read over someone he was townreading. | ||
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we're at 7:3 6:3 modkill 5:3 mislynch 4:3 nightkill gg in that scenario | ||
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I really don't give a fuck what he is saying at this point. | ||
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And disformation the answer to your question? Trfel. | ||
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On November 21 2015 05:50 disformation wrote: Added some colour. Went ahead and painted myself green. :p scott31337 (6): MoosyDoosy (4): FarahBlackwing (1): Eversince, Fecalfeast (1): VisceraEyes Breshke (1): geript, The Shining (0): Trfel (0): VisceraEyes (0): mooseydoosey (0): disinformation (0): Breshke (5): Trfel (2): farahblackwing (1): Fecalfeast (1): Trfel farahbackwing (0): Not Voting (2): Breshke, Eversince D2 votes imply that if there was no bussing of the Roleblocker it has to be Trfel and Eversince. Otherwise at least 1 person had to bus. From the timing I would suggest one of the last three votes on Breshke for the bus. I would agree with this. I think someone voiced the point that Trfel wasn't voting Breshke and starting a counterwagon (Shining? Damdred? I forget who) made him more towny but I'm also not sure that two people would make themselves that obvious trying to bus their roleblocker at the end. Unless you pulled a fail like us newbies did in newbie 13 lol. ....but not two open players anyhow. Still leaves the possibility of Eversince if I'm wrong on Trfel. speaking of Trfel he seems convinced on Fecalfeast, and at the moment seeing his "lol I didn't bus my roleblocker" posts aren't impressing me knowing that Moosy himself bussed his own roleblocker the first two cycles in newbie 13 so I couldn't discount that possibility. Then again it's Moosy with the yolo plays as usual, not sure how Fecalfeast plays as mafia. | ||
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On November 21 2015 05:58 disformation wrote: Show nested quote + On November 20 2015 11:13 ritoky wrote: pretty good post by trfel about ff. + trfel angry might mean trfel the town out of trfel/breshke and i was just wrong. pretty good post by ff about breshke. hate that it took a good case on him to prompt it though. Show nested quote + On November 20 2015 14:17 ritoky wrote: it still really irks me that ff only did something after he got cased. random thought: if breshke is mafia, ff can still easily be with him. Show nested quote + On November 20 2015 14:25 ritoky wrote: ##vote: breshke also in support of a shining or ever lynch. might be convinced of an ff lynch. Why is he voting Breshke together with FF who he suspects and kinda wants to lynch, too? And why is he suggesting to lynch two ppl who are very afk at that time? On November 21 2015 05:41 The Shining wrote: Yes. And rits d1 votes were me>Moosy>Scott. Im town, Moosy is unccd vig, scott flipped town. If he was suspicious of me enough to vote me, he should've been more worried about me voting Scott with him instead of realizing Scott was town right at deadline because of his post 3 mins before EoD. And the refusal to evaluate. And his always softing me but no push or outright reasoning for why I'm scum. I want to lynch ritoky. Confirming you are basically saying that ritoky is suspicious for voting with his scumreads on other people? Makes sense. I did not think too much of him initially because of all the vote switching he did (and others like Farah I think switched multiple times) but I'd have to take a closer look at his filter. Conversely from a pure voting standpoint, why is Trfel not mafia because it seems like some of you aren't convinced. The ritoky's argument of the whole GF/cop thing favouring bussing whatever over hard alignment made zero sense to me or rather I can't get my head around why either strategy would be setup dependent, if ritoky actually answered that questions, then I missed it. I already made filter arguments and maybe this is just me not understanding the whole voting analysis thing except for the little I've learnt in my two games, but using this last voting example why would he bus his own roleblocker when he'd get no credit for it and his reads aren't lining up anyhow? Trfel can't obviously vote for himself so what choice does he have? The only thing that jumps out at me looking at a town Trfel is him NOT voting with Fecalfeast who is voting Breshke, but IDK. In any case there is still a second scum left....from the looks of what has been posted, I take it Onegu is a lurky player in general? Never played with him obviously. | ||
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On November 21 2015 05:37 Damdred wrote: Most important thing to consider is this 1) was Breshke the most dead in the water? The answer to this question is yes, before nm switched it was 6-1-1 Even if the scum team switched it would be 4-4-1 and I don't think that nm would switch with that plus it reveals the scum team the next day if Trfel flips town. Ff vote on Scott makes him look bad when it occured to put him above Breshke. Rits vote on Scott looks bad overall plus his refusal to really evaluate or pay attention to the case geript+disf+Farah commented on. Its highly likely rit is at least scum. On November 21 2015 05:41 The Shining wrote: Yes. And rits d1 votes were me>Moosy>Scott. Im town, Moosy is unccd vig, scott flipped town. If he was suspicious of me enough to vote me, he should've been more worried about me voting Scott with him instead of realizing Scott was town right at deadline because of his post 3 mins before EoD. And the refusal to evaluate. And his always softing me but no push or outright reasoning for why I'm scum. I want to lynch ritoky. Noted for when I look through ritoky's filter. | ||
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On November 21 2015 06:08 disformation wrote: Also ritoky was trying to push for trfel over Breshke earlier D2... On November 20 2015 07:27 ritoky wrote: Show nested quote + On November 20 2015 07:03 disformation wrote: ritoky can you explain why you want to lynch trfel? 2 reasons primarily: 1) The following sentence is probably the most awkward/scummy sentence in the entire thread. Show nested quote + On November 18 2015 04:21 Trfel wrote: Wait, what the heck? This push onto Breshke is so mafia-motivated. I don't trust geript at all here. Look at scott31337's townread of geript. He just says that geript is a top town. Notice that he repeatedly says "Trfel could be scum or he could be town" in response to me solving the game and pushing my ideas. He never describes any difference between me and geript, just uses the fact that I had one good game as scum to avoid townreading me. But geript is better than me at mafia, by far, and scott31337 knows this. It's impossible for him not to know that geript is extremely skilled as mafia. So now geript comes up with this push out of nowhere to prevent scott31337 from being lynched? I don't like this one bit. 2) Trfel procedurally understands the game enough to not push relentlessly on an uncc'd blue. There's a difference between "I scum read this person for a couple posts to make sure they hold their claim" and what he was doing. He was legitimately applying pressure. I had begun to consider the tinfoil world where he might be doctor, but damdred enters the game maintains the claim, and he backs off. So it wasn't cc based, it wasn't good play, so it was probably just mafia. Reasons why I greatly prefer trfel to breshke: 1) I think trfel has done mafia things, I don't think breshke has done much of anything. Breshke is in the pile of ff and ever of not doing anything to significantly impact the game and 1 or 2 of them are probably mafia. 2) 1 of the primary reasons for people pushing breshke (geript's isolated questions and blah blah read) was just factually false. 3) I don't think trfel and breshke are together and I think trfel is mafia. I say this primarily because of setup. It is a set-up with only a 50% chance of having investigative power and a guaranteed GF. This means that distancing and busing are more optimal than hard defense and aligning; and trfel has been REALLY defending breshke (like since p1 of his filter defending) pretty much all game. I think both trfel and breshke are good enough players to recognize that about the setup and I sincerely doubt that trfel hard defends his partner so early. Probably a case of mafia trying to pocket town. imo lynch pool right now should be something like: trfel - reasons above ever - already said why ff - hasn't shit town rainbow yet, disengaged shining - same as before + extra dropoff + not scum hunting. So I'm looking at this post and I'm curious as to how he goes from "Trfel has done more mafia things than Breshke" (paraphrasing) to "well only one of Trfel and Breshke can be mafia" because they aren't together. On November 21 2015 09:27 ritoky wrote: Show nested quote + On November 21 2015 09:18 ritoky wrote: On November 21 2015 09:07 Fecalfeast wrote: Ritoky if I gave you a gun and told you to shoot anyone who isn't shining, would you use it? On whom? I'm not feeling extra funny right now sorry bb. it's okay i think i might go shave to calm myself. shooting ever is always the correct play, but i am in a mood right now so i would shoot NM cuz yolo tinfoil. cuz basically in the scenario where i can't shoot shining cuz town shielded i am here: town: ritoky disform damdred moosy shining other: ff ever trfel NM if i pull out ff cuz he has basically been trying to get me to cheat on my wife all game by looking at me tantalizingly from the corner, then we have ever, trfel, NM and if my read on trfel is right that 1 between trfel and breshke, then i have a team of exactly: ever, NM....which i am not sure how i feel about that right now. but if shining is town then lynching those 3 wins the game in all likelihood. So what makes trfel "less mafia" from ritoky's perspective given what he's posted before? I don't see he's posted much other than saying Fecalfeast is scum and that has not changed from him since before EoD. The hard alignment thing doesn't discuss anything from what he's seeing of Trfel other than an associative read. (Or an association read as to why he's not mafia.) At the very least you'd think he'd be a little more hesistant to say "welp Trfel's town based on setup, yet he still did X, Y, and Z," but maybe let me look into other people. It seems too absolute for me you can't predict that everyone will think similarly on setup. The reason Breshke was scumread esp for day 2 was the lack of followup/interaction engagement with scumreads, so I can see the argument of spewing disinformation (spewing meaning a TMI town read I assum), and it was said afterwards he did well in not giving teammates away otherwise. going to check on ritoky vs Shining.... | ||
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For Shining, he brings up good points in 1466 and 1472 and I don't think those plus the rebuttal in 1479 could come from scum. Also Breshke defending Shining doesn't really make Shining mafia, he can't control what Breshke does. So I'm on post 1469, where ritoky is posting to Shining. Two things I'm looking at closely. #2 if I remember the timing right Shining not playing at the time cited wasn't alignment indicative since he doesn't play Mondays and Tuesdays. I wasn't sure at the time if ritoky was just ignorant of this or if he didn't know about that and he was just voting people or putting in a lynch list he wasn't sure of. Him fighting with Eversince for being under anesthesia doesn't mean he's mafia though if you looked at the reasonings why. The excuses aren't mafia in of themselves, but why he voted him over Scott, who knows. second On November 21 2015 08:55 The Shining wrote: The Breshke lynch was also 0% yours and you left yourself open to 3 other lynches, 2 on inactive at the time(me and ES) so I don't know how that makes me any worse than you. In fact, you tried to get people onto Trfel INSTEAD OF Breshke before giving up and going onto Breshke. So where I had suspicion and ended up voting him, you tried other lynches before going onto him. is another reason as to why this setup reason is why he's backing off Trfel. But most critically is that post when he tries to push Trfel over Breshke and he says "Trfel has done scummy things, Breshke has not done anything." I backtracked to when around the time ritoky "gave up" and decided to vote Breshke based on the FF case. He asked Trfel about an hour after he made his post pushing Trfel for a list of reasons and that was before he read the two cases. Well the point of Breshke "not doing much of anything" was effectively in Fecalfeast's filter when he said "this filter is random, I want him to explain" (post 1287) and that was the long case on Breshke. But the real issue is that FF's case on Breshke was on day 1 material. When ritoky pushed trfel day 2, his pushing Trfel day 2 was based on "Trfel doign scummy things nad Breshke not really doing anything" with that activity on day 1. Why did it take Fecalfeast casing Breshke for ritoky to actually make the conclusion he did on Breshke when the material wasn't new and it was the same material at the time he was pushing Trfel that made Breshke less mafia than Trfel (in ritoky's view)? That gets me. It actually makes sense for Trfel to even comment what he did - Fecalfeast pushing Breshke? "that's the easiest push in the world." So Trfel suspecting Fecalfeast actually makes Trfel less mafia (for me) and makes me question why ritoky actually didn't try to lynch Fecalfeast (or push him) if the case's material/basis was for material that didn't make him suspect compared to Trfel to begin with. After all he liked Trfel's case on Fecalfeast. So that doesn't add up for ritoky. | ||
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but once I'm lining all those things I did two posts ago, I can definitely see a likeliness to ritoky bussing, now the question is Shining or Fecalfeast, I doubt both would have been that revealing but there's always the possibility. more reading to come.... | ||
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On November 22 2015 04:14 Fecalfeast wrote: I'm not gonna self meta but I did link all my games in my trash talk post. Have a look at a fecalfeast mafia game. So basically I skimmed your games real quick. There was one that only lasted a day so I just ignored that one. Basically you post loads when you are mafia from what I can tell. At least you have to know that. So how can we be so sure that you aren't fooling us by having us comparing this game with your past mafia games? Plenty of players don't post much as mafia. | ||
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Well I'm town, but I think I've earned townreads by looking at different people from different approaches, and re-evaluating play based on certain criteria (like votes, whether they follow up, whether someone's argument makes sense in context, etc) I think my line of play should be relatively easy to follow and if people have problems with my alignment based on how I have played, they are more than welcome to ask and try and clear things up. Right now, the most obvious townread is you Damdred, aside from being uncounterclaimed, from what I've read of how you are doing things you are taking the approach of stepping back and looking at and re-evaluting people. From what I can tell you don't really have the urgency to keep someone alive. Aside from you, I think it's a tossup between Shining and disformation. the latter doesn't really have that much more experience than me but going through his posts he doesn't seem to have an urgency to keep any particular person alive (like a scum teammate). He is waffly as hell, but I don't recall this being different from when I encountered him in newbie 13. Even if there is a danger of self meta, he's showing to see both sides of players and the biggest thing to me is that he's doing a lot of reading of the thread to show where he's going with things. He could have protected Breshke given there were a lot of lurkers but him going for him early is very good on him. Shining's activity has been extremely sporadic but he's raised some very good points (omgus aside, well then again it's not really omgus lol) as to why ritoky's play doesn't make sense from a town perspective. Additional points on the multiple vote switches that made me think twice and ultimately has driven the thread now, even if he hasn't been around to do it often. Between the two anyhow, I think he's more town than ritoky. | ||
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On November 22 2015 07:05 Fecalfeast wrote: Show nested quote + On November 22 2015 01:44 Trfel wrote: Hi. I've got plans for today. If scum shoots me, we'll all be super happy anyway. I guess Damdred is just town. Which leaves me to a POE list of Fecalfeast, disformation, and Onegu. There's quite likely at least one hole in my POE list, some of the points raised against ritoky were pretty good. I'll take a look this evening, hopefully. Wait I was... Show nested quote + On November 21 2015 05:26 Trfel wrote: On November 21 2015 05:23 The Shining wrote: I don't see how Fecalfeast can be town here.Brooms rhyme with shrooms =D I'll eat shrooms if town doesn't win >.> Trfel do you still think FF is scum? Breshke was obviously bussed. My push on Fecalfeast would have given mafia a golden opportunity to switch off of Breshke, but nothing happened. In addition to all of Fecalfeast's play, that absolutely confirms him as mafia. ABSOLUTELY CONFIRMED mafia. + Show Spoiler + + Show Spoiler + "Which leaves me to a POE list of Fecalfeast, disformation, and Onegu." IDK if I had someone who was ABSOLUTELY CONFIRMED mafia, I would vote them. ##vote trfel Take everything everyone said about trfel being too scummy to be scum and that's my case except that he's so scummy that he's scum. Based on the above posts, why does this make trfel mafia? to the point before I said that the material you cased Breshke on was from day 1 hence Trfel saying your push was too easy. that made more sense once I re-read in context. But why does that associative read "my push on Fecalfeast would have given mafia a golden opportunity....." make him mafia? if I had to pretend for just one second that trfel is town, tbf he's screaming at the thread and no one is listening to him, there are two scum remaining. how do you know he's not going to sort out (first quote) someone else if no one is listening to him on his primary scumread? the first quote indicates just that. | ||
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and if you are so sure of trfel being town for whatever reason ritoky, then where does that put you with Fecalfeast pushing against him? as for Fecalfeast's case impacting your vote, you clearly commented you liked it with the caveat that it was made so late. and you said you liked trfel's case on Fecalfeast. that was gathered from reading your filter relative and taking an order of events. and if you are saying that case did NOT impact your read, then how are you going from what you said in post 1244 to voting Breshke? "Breshke hasn't done anything...." and then Trfel even said "that push on Breshke was too easy." welp, there were several valid points against Breshke, the biggest one being the issue with the disformation/farah reads that he refused to explain especially at the time they were both scumreading each other. and unlike day 1, lack of followup, not like the way he kept pushing VE by contrast. It was a valid reason to change any read from prior day. | ||
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On November 22 2015 08:13 ritoky wrote: Show nested quote + On November 22 2015 08:09 NocturneMage wrote: cheers ritoky. a bit foreign how I could believe in the event two people "soul-reading" each other are both mafia, but that is besides the point. a ways to go for me before I can even think of metareading... so you think that me and damdred are mafia? damdred is the only person i have a soul read on....and he is blue so it is pointless; but he already said his soul read on me says i am town. no. that is not at all what I am saying. the second sentence was a hypothetical that would have applied to any two such players soul-reading near the beginning of the game. long ago had reason to believe damdred's claim as true. | ||
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And your scumteam won't win the game. Onegu, no idea either way honestly and why you think Trfel and I would be on a team together when I was hard scumreading him (and still have issues with aspects of his play at the moment) and prioritising Breshke over him in lynching him. So thinking that I could be on a scumteam or a possible scumteam with Trfel and Breshke is utterly absurd. my line of play would be a losing proposition. Also why are you second guessing your read on Shining? or to word it more specifically, where is the town side of things in Shining where you previously saw scum? You also have to explain why my explanations for "bussing" Breshke from your view don't make any sense. It was something disformation and I were discussing actually and we both voted Breshke early. So what makes him town and myself not so, I recall his explanation being similar to mine, and though I switched my vote to Trfel, I said multiple times I would switch back to Breshke if I needed to - highest likeliness of scum was the phrasing I used. | ||
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questions, will try my best. Monday, will catch up best I can. | ||
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On November 22 2015 14:00 ritoky wrote: Show nested quote + On November 17 2015 10:10 NocturneMage wrote: Anyways second look at Breshke indicates his would lynch is FF, Moosy and he's waiting for VE. Eh, nothing unusual, thought his response to my question 6 pages ago was satisfactory. Getting to ritoky's post on disformation.... Only other person I need to take a hard look is Eversince. Show nested quote + On November 17 2015 11:12 NocturneMage wrote: Null: Eversince - just couldn't get around to her today. disformation - there are legitimate town and mafia tells but I would use another day to work on him Fecalfeast - he didn't explain the reads early game, but he openly admitted he was lazy. seems intent on lynching scott and putting pressure on Moosy to play the game which is towny though. My gut says town, but I could be wrong. Show nested quote + On November 18 2015 23:47 NocturneMage wrote: Just looking at filters I think best cop checks might be VE, Eversince, Fecalfeast. If we have vig shoot Farah. Also Fecalfeast I don't think doc/vet is even possible given the OP. I need to afk for a few hours. ^ bolded for potential suggesting cop check on GF Show nested quote + On November 19 2015 09:58 NocturneMage wrote: Farah, I'm going to say this. when you are getting tunnelled or scumread or whatever you want to call it, I was advised you find scum. If you honestly felt there was a valid point to figuring out what Fecalfeast's role was - and he claimed he wasn't vig - you would have moved forward by saying "alright, Fecalfeast isn't vig, he could be scum because of X," or "if fecalfast is town and if some person Y is vig" then I'm down to this method, etc. even in your world you aren't moving town forward also post 1129, Trfel is using the word malicious as in mafia agenda. Not that you were insulting, but your play is mafia play. now I have time to sit down, I will look into eversince, and do the best I can here. at least before 2am. Show nested quote + On November 19 2015 10:11 NocturneMage wrote: On November 19 2015 09:48 disformation wrote: Currently my official read on her is: wtf bananaboat. Which is like 3rd party, but slightly tastier and floating on water. Or rather uncced vet with plays that make no sense for either town nor scum. But I might look at it again, if I am able to figure out what the correct bait for a wtf bananaboat is. as glowingbear told me in my newbie 13 game, scum play to survive. even if we go through a cycle, say we fuck up again and mislynch, night phase passes and she's not taken out, if she gets one mislynch out of that, she's gotten her team closer to victory. 2 mislynches left in that scenario. alright now eversince. Show nested quote + On November 19 2015 10:31 NocturneMage wrote: also disformation.... from newbie 13, I was caught out as mafia on voting analysis. I am decently sure the way moosy's been playing he is probably town now. If that's the case, when both wagons are town, there's a decent shot to look at people who didn't give a shit about the lynch or who got lynched or for players that can hide it well, who had a "fake" reaction to try and get one player lynched over another or a bad reason given read progression. now farah's been cited for this, but who else would this apply? there were some isolated voters obviously and those people will always come into question but two of these are known town now. and eversince, who knows. Show nested quote + On November 19 2015 11:02 NocturneMage wrote: Rest of filter is a bit hyperfocusing on Shining. Just overall meh from that point. I'd give an overall scumlean, but very well could be wrong here. back to work. Show nested quote + On November 19 2015 23:19 NocturneMage wrote: I think if I had to lynch anyone and avoid the policy lynch (which it basically what it is) on Eversince, I would go for Breshke. Compared to Trfel, he seems less towny although I couldn't initially grasp from ritoky as for why he'd lynch Trfel over Breshke aside from him wanting to lynch Farah whose claim was scummy when it was made. I could understand Fecalfeast's vote on him for that reason although I mentioned that Breshke, the same thing mostly applies except the claim analysis. geript tried to get Breshke lynched d1 and now that we know geript is town and considering his type of read and my initial reservation on Breshke (talking around geript/VE), and geripts history of 30 games, I'm going to assume the meta read is more or less accurate or at the very least we know it was an honest thought from him. not to mention scum really fall off late game, and Breshke's last post irrespective of timezone was.... ....16 hours ago.... I'm looking at Breshke's posts from 1009 and onwards. He's saying disformation and farah are both scum. But they are both scumreading each other. Learnt the hard way from newbie 14 that there was some double bussing going on. there's no explaiantion from Breshke as to why he thinks they are on after each other and disformation has since been a bit more towny. If Farah's claim was true, and without a counterclaim, we have to proceed as if it is true, it was a poor decision, but at least Damdred has a strategy/conditions for when/if/how the vig should claim. I understand it. and this go? Breshke's pushes are a LOT weaker than round 1. he's not as invested in either of them. I think what trfel said is valid, let the moderators deal with Eversince and lynch Breshke unless there is a mechanical reason we have to deal with her now. (do we know if mods modkill or replace or does that even matter? no idea how that shit works.) is that enough deflection and promised analysis of eversince w/o really delivering anything on it for you? cuz there's more where it came from. very VERY clearly a possible world of 2. On the second part of this, I felt other issues were more important to answer/look through and the "without delivering anything" part is completely false, I eventually got to it in post 1161/1162 with a scumlean on her. Inactivity beyond that I know I said somewhere I didn't feel was alignment indicative. | ||
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On November 22 2015 14:29 Trfel wrote: I honestly don't want to play this game any more. It's miserable. I get ignored, then everyone calls me scum for stupid nonsense while never responding to anything I'm trying to say. Scum is going to win this game because no one is freaking listening. Fecalfeast is mafia and needs to be lynched. Onegu is likely mafia as well. I'll look through ritoky's filter tonight and then disformation's sometime tomorrow. If Fecalfeast flips town, how do you proceed? Shining also brought up the points on you being wrong several times on your reads. Why are you so convinced now? | ||
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placeholder vote for now - will return and catch up in 1-2 hours. | ||
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On November 23 2015 01:39 Damdred wrote: Now this is the hard question to me. To me it seems moosey was the preference for scum going into the last 8-10 hours. No real counter wagon and we only see a flurry of people when moosey wagon starts breaking down. Way I'm reading it, Moosey maxed out at 5-6 votes The majority of the game is scattered about Trfel pushes a Scott lynch but states would be willing to lynch moosey as well just prefers moosey. Goes afk. Farah starts moving back and forth between Scott, Disfo being indecisive but doesn't want to lynch moosey. Geript pushes Breshke and gains Disfo and Farah tying him with moosey but not drawing ahead. Trfel shows up and yells about lynching Scott. Farah switches to Scott. Ff when he arrives votes Scott putting him into a 3-3-2 tie with moosey but ahead of Breshke. From this moment on Breshke has no chance of being lynched Trfel and ritoky stone wall the idea of lynching Breshke. People pile up on Scott, he gives a last second will ritoky freaks out and switches. Now what do you think is the most interesting thing in it disfo? Are you potentially suggesting a possible Trfel/ritoky scum team based off this? Though you are saying ritoky is likely town for (meta???) reasons or because you think Breshke vomited him town? Didn't most people townread ritoky day 1 anyhow, and do you think most scum would find a reason to scumread their own teammate if there was no reason to (in the event ritoky actually is mafia)? | ||
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On November 23 2015 10:23 Fecalfeast wrote: I keep forgetting about shining. Is that bad or is everyone ok with shining? Could shining trfel be a team? I feel like the angry demeanor of trfel could signify he is feeling abandoned by his scumteam but that's some unflipped association that I shouldn't look too far into. I'm doubting it. If any scum player was unhappy with strategy you'd think they'd try to either hide it or communicate it in the mafia qt. Still I don't know how that ties directly to Shining tbf. | ||
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On November 23 2015 07:51 Trfel wrote: Show nested quote + To expand:On November 23 2015 07:48 Trfel wrote: Why is everyone townreading Fecalfeast? All I've seen mentioned is tone. If the only towny thing that someone has done by Day 3 is tone, that's pretty miserable. I've presented a complete argument for why Fecalfeast is mafia. Furthermore, he is basically guaranteed mafia because mafia didn't push onto him and away from Breshke after I posed this argument (the more I think about this, it's not 100% that mafia would do this, but it's extremely likely that they would have pushed it more if they could). Fecalfeast has not responded to my arguments at all. No one else has suggested why anything is at all invalid, either. So why are people townreading him? Alright, like I said in my last questioning to you, you've been wrong on all your reads, why are you convinced now [b]but more importantly where do you go from here if you are wrong on Fecalfeast? Like let's say for whatever reason Fecalfeast loses his head when he wakes up and pulls a Moosy and gets modkilled. He flips town. Then what? You think Onegu is mafia, great...but who is he with? as of last posting you haven't looked yet into ritoky and disformation. if you think either could possibly be mafia once you are caught up, could either of them be with anyone? As Damdred put it in similar wording, why are you not re-evaluating your reads? If you look at Fecalfeast's latest posting (are you or have you?) does that change anything you have on him? do you think his willing to die could come from mafia? what are the posts since your case that make you since he's mafia? Regarding the counterpush, an argument I can see against your last statement is cred on Breshke but others have covered that I think. | ||
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On November 24 2015 02:18 disformation wrote: I also bought some beers in order to celebrate future scum lynches (or drown my frustration). Please don't take any mafia-game related drinking lessons from HTS regardless of alignment. I know she's coached you in the past, but still, just don't do it. | ||
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On November 24 2015 02:17 disformation wrote: Show nested quote + On November 24 2015 01:53 NocturneMage wrote: On November 23 2015 01:39 Damdred wrote: Now this is the hard question to me. To me it seems moosey was the preference for scum going into the last 8-10 hours. No real counter wagon and we only see a flurry of people when moosey wagon starts breaking down. Way I'm reading it, Moosey maxed out at 5-6 votes The majority of the game is scattered about Trfel pushes a Scott lynch but states would be willing to lynch moosey as well just prefers moosey. Goes afk. Farah starts moving back and forth between Scott, Disfo being indecisive but doesn't want to lynch moosey. Geript pushes Breshke and gains Disfo and Farah tying him with moosey but not drawing ahead. Trfel shows up and yells about lynching Scott. Farah switches to Scott. Ff when he arrives votes Scott putting him into a 3-3-2 tie with moosey but ahead of Breshke. From this moment on Breshke has no chance of being lynched Trfel and ritoky stone wall the idea of lynching Breshke. People pile up on Scott, he gives a last second will ritoky freaks out and switches. Now what do you think is the most interesting thing in it disfo? Are you potentially suggesting a possible Trfel/ritoky scum team based off this? Though you are saying ritoky is likely town for (meta???) reasons or because you think Breshke vomited him town? Didn't most people townread ritoky day 1 anyhow, and do you think most scum would find a reason to scumread their own teammate if there was no reason to (in the event ritoky actually is mafia)? Was stumbling about this line for a moment as well, but read it as "ritoky's vote was the final nail in scott's coffin". That can imply ritoky shifting the votes away from a teammate, but scott's filter was pretty bad so could have just thought scott was scum.^^ That being said I am not 100% sure on ritoky and FF. I think Onegu and Trfel have a higher chance of being mafia, but I don't think it is impossible for one of them having fooled us. Since Onegu has not even tried to do something I am currently kinda happy with were my vote is, though. Will try to figure out Trfel again. Getting a bit burned out of reading through filters, though. xD well if I can be quite frank, I really don't like the way ritoky is stretching to find a way to read me as potential mafia. namely, for the first part, setup doesn't make me (or anyone really) mafia and the association read he tried to draw with myself and onegu has been proven false. he mentioned his reads were unorthodox and that's fine but you still cannot just assume that setup vindicates or implicates people unless you are trying to use that in conjunction with say vote analysis (like killing the roleblocker). also the read on disformation is 50/50, not sure if he's really unsure (town) or trying to keep his options open as scum. following: On November 21 2015 10:11 ritoky wrote: disform's read have been flipping on a dime all game based on thread sentiment; it is nothing new. he is probably just easily influenced town though cuz of the post where he suggested lynching himself early and his sheeping onto breshke day 1. of non-conf town he is the most town in the game; not even close to being close. based of this disformation is town to him. On November 22 2015 13:44 ritoky wrote: to me the game is very simple. and i think you guys are doing all this crazy shit overcomplicating it. i am town -> most town all game, lynched mafia, who am i bussing? (self-metametametametameta) damdred is town -> blue ff is town -> tone + willing to be PoE shining is town -> my read is shit, confirmed it was shit, accepting others lynch these people and we win or get to mylo: tfel onegu remainder: NM -> lots of effort and cases, bizarre trfel post after flip, rando sudden push on me, not reading my responses, probably not mafia if trfel mafia though. disfo -> procedurally should be town for vote thing, but PoE + opinions move like water so he's easily influenced town whose opinions move like water? in spite of him reading disformation potential town for martyring/day 1 on breshke? still can't figure out when/how he decides the "opinions moving like water" outweighs the town behaviour from day 1 to keep him in poe. anyone have any thoughts there? also looking at his lynch list, the trfel post should not be "bizarre" as if he has read my filter, clearly he has read at least part of the filter because he tried to draw an association between myself and onegu, he should see how hard I was pushing trfel and the town bias for saying that trfel should be the lynch. the association read (if trfel is mafia, I'm probably not) is also poor because others were (and still are) pushing trfel as well, so how is fecalfeast (who voted him at a point) for example less mafia from that vantage point? he doesn't seem to be evaluating everyone from the same criteria is my point. the other issue with ritoky is that prior to his going afk, I looked in his filter for the amount of pushing/querying he's done on trfel. aside from his listed post (numbered, post 1244) he only has one other entire post (1270) asking his reason to back down off damdred's post to which trfel answered that he gives replacements a day pass and no followup on that since then, so assumed he was fine with that response. since then? zero. - why isn't trfel "angry town" anymore (independent of poe), post 1296 - furthermore assuming I'm not misinterpreting post 1503, he accuses Fecalfeast of pocketing him (which means he's mafia or mafia behaviour) (1) so what makes in ritoky's eyes fecalfeast more town based on tone/poe as opposed to trfel who appears still angry but apparently isn't town for it anymore? (2) and additionally why is disformation still in the poe list for the same criteria, he was earlier townread for "lynching himself early" and is put in poe now as opposed to fecalfeast who has done similar martyring? right now I'm at ritoky/trfel/onegu not nec in that order, I want to revisit fecalfeast in case I've missed something. | ||
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ritoky, if you are able to find time to answer or fully explain the bolded, that would be splendid. I think I read pages 7-10 of your filter which is where I found most of the issues to be. | ||
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So five on onegu with 3 not voting yet. Onegu, if you are town, you had better at least provide us some information from your perspective. I have reasons to lynch both ritoky and trfel (trfel having had more time to resolve them) if the concerns go unresolved but from what fecalfeast alluded earlier, you don't post much as town? at least some list post on who you think the scum taking advantage of your absence are.... | ||
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On November 24 2015 03:20 disformation wrote: Also remember when ritoky was scumreading FF and voting Breshke together with FF? wow I completely forgot that just now. I even said before he should have pushed on Fecalfeast with Trfel when he said the trfel case was good and caveated fecalfeast on breshke. if trfel said the push on breshke was the easiest push in the world (or scummy because it was so late)...ehhhhh I sort of want to hear from damdred in spite of all these issues why ritoky could actually be town here. trying to follow the read progression, the rationale and the changes in his reads after reading his filter in and out of context and there's either too many contradictions or double standards for his changes to be making any sense. also ignoring anything after he went afk for the holiday since reads will be poor regardless of alignment, the posts I take issue are before he has left. the point breshke vomiting ritoky town might be moot if ritoky was universally townread and I'm almost positive he was day 1. I mean I don't disagree it was an easy townread, but if ritoky is mafia and is universally townread there's no reason for scum breshke to unnecessarily draw attention to a scum partner. the reconsidering of shining here after the fact is one thing but for what else... | ||
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On November 24 2015 03:32 disformation wrote: I shadowed Onegu. He likes to play scum much more than town. Therefore he tries to switch up his meta every few games so it is hard to read him. He also was town and not very active in the game I shadowed him, but he was way more useful than in this game so far... Don't think I have enough experience with him to correctly meta/read him off of that though... as scum, does he "pretend" to be useful? or is he easily caught with how bad his questions/posting is? has he ever just done nothing as scum? and you mentioned he always tries to switch meta, so who knows.... that question is for anyone here that is familiar with onegu's play, not just you. | ||
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actually no, scratch that. my wife will be home by then. fuck. do you have anything for us onegu? | ||
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On November 24 2015 03:54 Onegu wrote: Show nested quote + On November 24 2015 03:23 NocturneMage wrote: also disformation I would think the moderators made a mistake with Onegu and his vote. he can surely vote if Damdred did last cycle So five on onegu with 3 not voting yet. Onegu, if you are town, you had better at least provide us some information from your perspective. I have reasons to lynch both ritoky and trfel (trfel having had more time to resolve them) if the concerns go unresolved but from what fecalfeast alluded earlier, you don't post much as town? at least some list post on who you think the scum taking advantage of your absence are.... I will speed read but I dont really have anything other than the person who said it didnt look like I was scum from my entrance looked really weird. I and remember it came from someone I had actually played with multiple times before and that actually mad no sense to me. As to why he would say something like that about me. let's see if I can help find that. | ||
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On November 24 2015 03:55 Onegu wrote: Answer me this does my flip give you a better way to read people based on how the previous person was playing? Your predecessor I had a mild scumread on but as time wore on, most people had her as a complete null/coin flip. so the short answer to your question is no. right now everyone or nearly everyone is wanting or willing to lynch you. I personally have two individuals I have concerns on right now (ritoky and trfel) with a third (fecalfeast) that I really need to re-check. and deadline I feel for you Americans might be why no one is around. 8pm for me but still early for you people. | ||
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On November 24 2015 03:59 Onegu wrote: Show nested quote + On November 24 2015 03:55 NocturneMage wrote: On November 24 2015 03:54 Onegu wrote: On November 24 2015 03:23 NocturneMage wrote: also disformation I would think the moderators made a mistake with Onegu and his vote. he can surely vote if Damdred did last cycle So five on onegu with 3 not voting yet. Onegu, if you are town, you had better at least provide us some information from your perspective. I have reasons to lynch both ritoky and trfel (trfel having had more time to resolve them) if the concerns go unresolved but from what fecalfeast alluded earlier, you don't post much as town? at least some list post on who you think the scum taking advantage of your absence are.... I will speed read but I dont really have anything other than the person who said it didnt look like I was scum from my entrance looked really weird. I and remember it came from someone I had actually played with multiple times before and that actually mad no sense to me. As to why he would say something like that about me. let's see if I can help find that. Just found it on page 79 it was FF I can't find that on page 79? a search on onegu in Fecal's filter gives me this: On November 21 2015 09:39 Fecalfeast wrote: Onegu claim immediately On November 21 2015 10:34 Fecalfeast wrote: Onegu, where art thou? On November 21 2015 11:20 Fecalfeast wrote: Gonna ping this out every so often because I'm getting worried. Maybe he's reading the entire game and coming in to blow scum out of the water | ||
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On November 24 2015 04:02 Onegu wrote: Show nested quote + On November 24 2015 04:00 disformation wrote: On November 24 2015 03:55 Onegu wrote: Answer me this does my flip give you a better way to read people based on how the previous person was playing? Uh... no? ... damn. Yeah then this is scums preferred lynch. Look for people that were completely null the whole game on me then were like fuck it we just lynch onegu and then peaced out. quite honestly....that's a lot of people. at least three. trfel, ritoky, fecalfeast, at least three. right now only two scum left. so that doesn't fully help. ritoky sheeped damdred and damdred is the uncounterclaimed vet. Shining hasn't voted yet. | ||
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On November 24 2015 04:06 Onegu wrote: Show nested quote + On November 21 2015 13:50 Fecalfeast wrote: On November 21 2015 13:41 Onegu wrote: Onegu VT claim. Onegu hasnt read anything and wont until tomorrow. ##Vote Damdred + Show Spoiler + Because why not it Damdy Actually this makes me think he hasn't seen a scum QT. Obviously to be taken tongue in cheek but still. tongue in cheek.....might have been dicking around, but the only thing he's consistently pinged you for is activity. Trfel has a case on him, do you think it's coming from town? and his insistence that fecalfeast is mafia? | ||
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On November 24 2015 04:09 Trfel wrote: ##vote Fecalfeast I really hate how Onegu came back an hour from End of Day. After vanishing for so long. But he's still Onegu, and I'm still almost positive that Fecalfeast is mafia. can you at least for the love of everything that is good talk about Fecalfeast's activity THIS CYCLE and why he's still mafia? why is he mafia based on things he's done THIS CYCLE? also "still being onegu" isn't a valid reason to townread him after you said "onegu is probably mafia" (post 1677) | ||
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On November 21 2015 10:32 Fecalfeast wrote: NM/ever/trfel are the easy, low hanging fruit since none of them voted breshke. If we ignore ever for the moment because she obviously missed the entire day rather than consciously voting off wagon AND we go with the trfel is hard aligning with scum and therefore not scum, there HAS to be scum on breshke's wagon. Which leaves shining and ritoky and disform. YUCK post 1619 On November 22 2015 09:57 Fecalfeast wrote: Show nested quote + On November 22 2015 09:28 Damdred wrote: This whole game makes me want to lynch ff and trfel sorta. Its hard Is this an association thing? If you lynched me and I flipped town would you still lynch trfel? Why or why not? post 1635 On November 22 2015 10:54 Fecalfeast wrote: I have to check shining's scum games because he seems pretty noice to me but I don't remember what he's like as scum. So from battle of the drams, the shining was a very reactive, conversational person. A lot of replies to posts with hardly any cases or original ideas. This is from a cursory look at his filter out of context bear in mind. Show nested quote + On October 01 2015 06:42 The Shining wrote: On October 01 2015 06:34 marvellosity wrote: for example. I just read TheShining's filter. It kinda looks ok. But what's in it? A semi push on coolTLname. I basically can't find another suspicion. Is this supposed to be townie? Why the fuck are you misrepresenting me? I questioned Moosy and am still on the fence about him, never changed him but it helped that he shared my view on CoolTL. I was thinking LS could be scum but unless he's bussing D1, cool and LS can't be scum together. And my points on cool are stronger than my suspicion on LS so my vote is staying where its at. How is that just a semi push on cool with no other suspicion? Mind you, I've already said multiple times and its common knowledge that I don't really have time to get online Monday/Tuesday, so I've done what I can with my time up until now. It doesn't help that I'm stuck phone posting today. stuff liek this where someone expresses a minor dislike for his filter he gets instantly defensive. compared to this game Show nested quote + On November 16 2015 05:58 The Shining wrote: On November 16 2015 05:52 geript wrote: I don't like Shining. He feels really different; not because he's posting a bit more than I remember him. His posting just seems off and not pointed to me. You're just mad that my first scum win was against you while I was super lurky. It's OK, I understand. Please explain what you mean by not pointed? I'm asking questions to flesh out my reads, since nothing else is happening for me to read/react on. Also, since you bring up my posting frequency, you should know that my activity depends heavily on what day of the week it is and how busy work is. I almost never have time to play on Monday/Tuesday and today is Sunday so I want to get the most out of my playing time today. Same sentiment, "you're misrepresenting me and I can only be around on certain days." but notice in the first quote, shining seems extra upset and brings up the things he's already done. After he replies to geript this game, he even follows it up Show nested quote + On November 16 2015 06:06 The Shining wrote: Like right now a bunch of posts and discussion have appeared and yet, just like I said, Eversince voted Farrah, mentioned no one else and is now gone. I don't like that because it's exactly what scum Eversince did when she came into thread last game. And VE you claim a lot of people posted already so here's a list for you. Scott, Moosy, Breshke, nocturne, ritoky, Trfel. Half the game still hasn't shown up so saying "so many" have posted and i should have townreads is just discrediting me and my playstyle. And fecal has made useless posts. Disformation asked a pointless question about FF just waking up, as if its alignment indicative and a joke vote proposal on voting Scott. These things are early enough for me to find them null until I see what they actually do. He's further explaining himself and his position while responding to other concerns from VE. Without going through each filter post by post, have a look at shining's last scum game. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/494873-battle-of-the-drams-mafia?user=The Shining&view=all Almost every post is either summarizing someone's post in different words or asking simple questions. Compare that to this game where shining has made multiple large posts, he argues very openly with ritoky while in his scum game where the second anyone starts scumming him he gets all buttmad and pouty. Show nested quote + On October 04 2015 05:47 The Shining wrote: Probably the shittiest 20 or so pages I've had to read in this game. If you think I'm scum, just lynch me so you can keep cool around as the biggest question mark that avoided two lynches and lose the game tomorrow. While you're at it, you can explain how scum Shining has been trying to bus scum cool since D1, since you have him as scum, rayn and Rels. Makes a lot of fucking sense. You too, Moosy. I should be looked into if cool is scum? When I've been trying to bury him for softing me as scum D2 and then never doing anything about it? And Damdred is right, I begin to start looking at Trfels filter and starting to hash things out with RSo regarding her suspicion of him and he comes back with this huge case based on meta and what he thinks I should be doing with my time. I don't even want to waste my time with a little over an hour before EoD so I'll only cover some of the bigger points. Then you can ask me w.e you want. Show nested quote + On October 07 2015 06:41 The Shining wrote: Welp gg town we lost. I don't even really care, I stopped caring for this game after the BS cool flip. I had every expectation of getting lynched today but I couldn't be assed to play the last few days cuz of IRL shit. I do believe we got fucked this game because of the Damdred cc and weird balance but w.e. I'm pretty glad this game is going to be over soon anyway, too much BM from different people but I won't point any fingers. There was a reason why I left TL for a while. GG. So based on filter comparisons between one scum game and this game, the shining's tone and reactions to pressure seem much more towny this game. Though I guess he hasn't been under much significant pressure this game. posts 1635, 1645, 1646 is him trying to eliminate me as a scumread. basically from these he's appearing to narrow the game down a bit. why do you think these posts not come from town? trfel that first question is for you. onegu, are you saying that what he's doing (above) falls below expectations of what he does as town? | ||
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On November 24 2015 04:26 disformation wrote: Show nested quote + On November 24 2015 04:21 Trfel wrote: On November 24 2015 04:20 disformation wrote: Do you honestly think that Fecalfeast is trying to solve the game?On November 24 2015 04:18 Onegu wrote: On November 20 2015 08:55 Trfel wrote: Fecalfeast Here the posts that Fecalfeast has made this game that show his read progression. + Show Spoiler + On November 16 2015 08:33 Fecalfeast wrote: I'm not really reading too closely. Watching CFL with my dad and bro. Tone/feel reads telling me farah is town, geript is town, disform is mafia ever is towny... Refs in this game are blind On November 16 2015 08:34 Fecalfeast wrote: Oh disforms ninja post is fine for now. On November 17 2015 05:36 Fecalfeast wrote: VE you have me on steam lol my buddy hasn't done any of the online stuff yet I'm mostly skimming here but I side with trfel on VE for sure. town: ritoky trfel nocturne mafia: moose ve that's all I got On November 17 2015 08:04 Fecalfeast wrote: ve seems ok now that i'm interacting with him On November 17 2015 08:21 Fecalfeast wrote: Show nested quote + On November 17 2015 08:07 Breshke wrote: On November 17 2015 08:04 Fecalfeast wrote: ve seems ok now that i'm interacting with him why? He's explained his reasoning for voting me further and my earlier scumread was entirely sheeped from trfel On November 17 2015 08:44 Fecalfeast wrote: ##unvote I'm going to completely ignore moose for the rest of this game but I believe that he is really being that much of a female dog about rolling town. On November 17 2015 09:47 Fecalfeast wrote: Show nested quote + On November 17 2015 09:43 Trfel wrote: On November 17 2015 09:41 Fecalfeast wrote: You had two scumreads, VisceraEyes and MoosyDoosy. You're no longer scumreading both of them.On November 17 2015 09:36 Trfel wrote: Also, Fecalfeast, I believe you have zero scum reads right now? Do you plan on doing something about that in the near future? VE went from scum to null but sure. What are you even asking here? "FF you gonna keep playing?" I was just wanting your thoughts on that, that's all. How much past experience do you have with MoosyDoosy? Anyway, off to my exam. I hosted the game where he bused the dick off his whole team as mafia. He legitimately seems like a player who much prefers scum play over town play. That said, I also agree with the idea that giving him a free pass for throwing a tantrum is lame. Fuck it ##vote mooseydoosey On November 17 2015 09:56 Fecalfeast wrote: scott's filter is unappetizing and stingily portioned. 0 stars out of 5 On November 17 2015 10:12 Fecalfeast wrote: I could kill scott if we're gonna ignore moose again On November 17 2015 11:49 Fecalfeast wrote: If I were scum and moose was town, I'd be laughing it up in scum qt right now about how, unless he gets vigged, we have a guaranteed mislynch in lylo. Which means we should probably get rid of him sooner than later. On November 19 2015 08:39 Fecalfeast wrote: 1. Unless someone claims a vig shot on Geript, he was the only one adamant about trfel being scum and was getting upset that nobody listened to him. 2. His day 1 suspicions from his filter: VE, Moose, Scott, Me. I know 3/4 of those are town 100% while moose is showing some towny play since yesterday. 3. Totally willing to vote an uncc'd blue because she's martyring. On November 19 2015 08:58 Fecalfeast wrote: I can't say I'm tunneled on you trfel but right now that's where my brain is. I've only just been in your filter and i will take a closer look later. I've still got shit to do right now tho On November 20 2015 07:50 Fecalfeast wrote: I will kill bresh or trfel because geript confirmed the mafia kill makes it more likely he was offed for his reads, since mafia knows we have a vet* they wouldn't worry about a medic dodge. *assuming farah's claim was real On November 20 2015 08:03 Fecalfeast wrote: I'd be more comfortable lynching breshke over angry!trfel So, there are a few trends shown by the above posts. 1. Whoever posts is town
The disinformation post that caused Fecalfeast to change his read isn't that great. It's the first actual reads post that disinformation has made all game, and it was only made on request. But this caused a dramatic change in Fecalfeast's read? Enough to make him never seriously discuss disformation again? The way he downplayed his scumread on VisceraEyes is terrible. "I side with trfel on VE for sure", leading to a townread on Trfel and a scumread on VisceraEyes. Then, "ve seems ok now that i'm interacting with him" and "He's explained his reasoning for voting me further and my earlier scumread was entirely sheeped from trfel". First, VisceraEyes' Fecalfeast read wasn't a part of my case on VisceraEyes. The fact that this is what Fecalfeast mentioned, while also saying that his scumread came purely from my case, does not make sense at all. For MoosyDoosy, his reasons are debatable, but the important thing is that he voted for MoosyDoosy again later. More on this later. At the same time as Fecalfeast backed off of me (Trfel), he pushed onto Breshke. And he hadn't mentioned Breshke before. This push came out of nowhere. He said he'd rather lynch Breshke because I was "angry". Every single time, there's a person who makes some posts, and Fecalfeast removes his scumread on that person. This is every single time that Fecalfeast has removed a scumread on someone. This reeks of "don't hurt me, I'm not scumreading you!" 2. "Decision" about Day 1 lynch target Fecalfeast first includes MoosyDoosy as mafia in his list (no reason given), then votes MoosyDoosy for martyring. Then he unvotes MoosyDoosy because he thinks MoosyDoosy is just that obnoxious when he rolls town. At this point, Fecalfeast had zero scum reads. So, he went back and voted for MoosyDoosy again, reasoning being that "giving him a free pass for throwing a tantrum is lame". It's noteworthy that at this time, there was a lot of push for lynching MoosyDoosy. This vote on MoosyDoosy is extremely opportunistic and seems to be a patch for Fecalfeast having zero reads. Ritoky, one of the game's highest-influence players, then says that MoosyDoosy is exempt from being lynched. Fecalfeast immediately says he will look into scott31337. And then says he could kill scott31337. He doesn't care one bit about who is lynched, which is shown by his post saying that town ignoring MoosyDoosy causes them to automatically lose LYLO if MoosyDoosy is town, but ultimately vote for scott31337 instead of MoosyDoosy with no new reasons presented. The progression is basically:
3. Other factors I don't really have time to explain this as in detail, but namely his play on Day 3. He said that he didn't like disformation, but he never followed up on this or explained this at all. He said that I (Trfel) was suspicious primarily because of night kill analysis, but never actually addressed any of my posts or arguments like I asked him to, and like he said he would. Then he moved to Breshke, who he only mentioned once before in his filter, with a TOWN LEAN. Okay. Conclusion Fecalfeast is always taking the easy route, always making the easy reads. He's always keeping one scum read and when that stops being easy, he's just moving to the new easy scum read. His apathy towards the Day 1 lynch between two townies and forced read switches are extremely suspicious. Meh, waffling on the day one lynch when 2 town and he is scum, what motivation does he have to do that. I would actually give him town points on that. But the only taking easy reads point does have merit, I caught koshi before as scum because he was doing that. Dont really get the other factor thing. Yeah. I have a similar problem. It is a bit supsicious, but I just can see how that makes FF 100% slamdunk mafia... D1 and D2, no. D3 yes. Agreed, see my previous post Trfel look at the quotes I just put up. you think that stuff comes from mafia and if so why? | ||
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On November 24 2015 04:28 disformation wrote: Show nested quote + On November 24 2015 04:26 Onegu wrote: Well I am going to make lunch be back in like 10 min. I made homemade Barbacoa that has been in the crock pot since 8pm last night. Shit is going to be so fucking good. I am F5ing this shit like and mad, trying to think of a solution I am comfortable with and you, on the verge of being lynched, are like "whatever, lets grab some epic food, cya losers." -.- I want to see Trfel's response but either way what is worrying is that no one else is around and the votes aren't there to switch to anyone else. and Shining hasn't voted. disformation, he said he was leaving for only 10 min, still another 20 to EoD. | ||
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/497023-newbie-student-mafia-xvii-fullmetal-edition?page=73#1460 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/497023-newbie-student-mafia-xvii-fullmetal-edition?page=74#1464 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/497023-newbie-student-mafia-xvii-fullmetal-edition?page=74#1469 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/497023-newbie-student-mafia-xvii-fullmetal-edition?page=74#1472 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/497023-newbie-student-mafia-xvii-fullmetal-edition?page=74#1479 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/497023-newbie-student-mafia-xvii-fullmetal-edition?page=75#1496 | ||
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On November 24 2015 04:35 disformation wrote: Oh wait, didn't ticktoc say the deadline might be a bit later today? This might save our asses. that's a big fat no. I cohosted the last game with BH. even if hosts have to delay their end of cycle post, no votes will count after the deadline. so if deadline is at 2100 your time, shining votes at 2115, and mods don't post their shit until 2130, shining is still late. | ||
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On November 23 2015 17:02 Tictock wrote: It appears as though both LoneMeow and myself have things going on today, as such Night post may be delayed by up to 30 min. Please bare with us as I will be getting the post up as soon as I am able. As always Votes made after deadline will not be counted. Also please remember that you may track Votes via the tracker (link in all my Vote Count posts), though it may not be 100% accurate. In case the number of official Vote Counts are lacking. I was right. fuck. | ||
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if we unvote, he still has 3, we need minimum 4 votes to take anyone else out right now. Onegu can vote anyone to save himself, but we still are short one more. | ||
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Onegu, here are some additional issues I had on ritoky. thoughts? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=25137649 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/497023-newbie-student-mafia-xvii-fullmetal-edition?page=88#1758 | ||
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On November 23 2015 22:54 LoneMeow wrote: Day 3 Votecount Onegu (5): Damdred, disformation, ritoky, Fecalfeast, NocturneMage Trfel (0): Not Voting (2): The Shining, Trfel It looks like Onegu will be facing the court-martial for treason in leading the vote with 5 votes! Voting is Mandatory! Do not forget to vote! Vote tracker may be found here. this sucks, again we need four votes. (trfel has since voted FF, Shining no vote) Honestly if Shining no votes, I think he's town, and you are town, I think this game is over. | ||
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trfel not getting to ritoky or disformation as he mentioned prior is also unsettling. if the former is town, I will take in every bit of criticism/blame/bullshit warranted. | ||
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##unvote ##vote ritoky | ||
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On November 24 2015 04:55 Onegu wrote: Show nested quote + On November 24 2015 04:53 disformation wrote: Yeah, at this point I would kinda prefer Trefel or maybe ritoky, since Onegu is right, if he flips town we get 0 additional info. I really hope The Shining doesn't get modkilled... Doubt trfel is scum here for trying to move votes off of me. He was the first to unvote remember. And he did so early enough that there could be a vote switch. saved for future reference. | ||
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On November 24 2015 04:55 Onegu wrote: Show nested quote + On November 24 2015 04:53 disformation wrote: Yeah, at this point I would kinda prefer Trefel or maybe ritoky, since Onegu is right, if he flips town we get 0 additional info. I really hope The Shining doesn't get modkilled... Doubt trfel is scum here for trying to move votes off of me. He was the first to unvote remember. And he did so early enough that there could be a vote switch. Fecalfeast, what do you think of this? | ||
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On November 24 2015 04:54 The Shining wrote: Fuck it. Do it. Gonna trust my gut. ##Vote: ritoky I've been at the emergency vet since late last night, my dog caught an allergic reaction to something and almost died on me. Haven't really had much time to read or play. also sorry to hear about that as well. what breed? | ||
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On November 24 2015 04:59 disformation wrote: 1min b4 deadline here. Super glad I bought some beer earlier. I need one right now. Fuck it, I'm just going to policy lynch HTS next chance I get for corrupting this community. | ||
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Well fucking done town. GET IN THERE EVERYONE. Not surprised Trfel was mafia. ritoky going for separating himself from Trfel, wp mate. | ||
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Are you drinking that beer now? | ||
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Good on him, he deserves credit for that. Both skirted Breshke day 1 even if he didn't conclude it, I feared a Trfel/ritoky team for that reason. And ritoky was EXTREMELY suspicious for trying to save me for mylo and his reads on disformation and Fecalfeast had some very poor double standards. Shining, you had a really good read on him, onegu, good call as well. And you two, I hope things get better for both of you. | ||
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On November 24 2015 05:48 Trfel wrote: Well played. I'm fun to play with as town, really! Well, most of the time! Well, sometimes.... Well, once..... GGs Trfel. I'm sure I'll see you in another game. Hopefully I didn't come across as too much of a dick this game. | ||
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On November 24 2015 05:50 Fecalfeast wrote: I think moose and farah being blue, like someone smarter than I said, really messed with the scumteam. I had A LOT of townreads day 1 and while two of them were scum (trfel/rit) having some of the scummiest players turn out confirmed/unCC'd it really narrows the options for mislynch didn't moose afk day 1? he wouldn't have claimed in time I don't think. | ||
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On November 24 2015 05:51 Trfel wrote: Show nested quote + Nah, you were fine.On November 24 2015 05:50 NocturneMage wrote: On November 24 2015 05:48 Trfel wrote: Well played. I'm fun to play with as town, really! Well, most of the time! Well, sometimes.... Well, once..... GGs Trfel. I'm sure I'll see you in another game. Hopefully I didn't come across as too much of a dick this game. The big thing you did wrong is that you let me live so long When you make a big post with a bunch of reasons why I'm scum, and I only respond to half of them, what does that tell you about the other half? XD There was enough resistance against your lynch that it would have never gone through. People kept saying "angry town" but I have been told that tone can be faked. So I just ignored that. But people bought into it. People kept saying about the vote analysis being too suicidal for scum Trfel but from the main wagon, but because you would otherwise be hit for bussing late on the wagon, Trfel had no choice but to create another wagon so that part is really not alignment indicative. ritoky though just kept looking worse, and I felt I could push him more confidently into the grave with my case. Much more than I could you. | ||
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On November 24 2015 05:52 Fecalfeast wrote: Oh right. Farah: I apologize if I had any part in your decision to sub out. Whether this game or the previous game. I hope you can find motivation to play here again but, if not, I had fun playing with you regardless. Eversince: GET WELL SOON WE NEED UPDATES ARE YOU OK? Same here. I hope I did not come across as a dick, I was told by my coach that pushing you too much without giving you room to show you were town is generally a turnoff and I can see that it was, so I'm sorry for that. And Eversince, please get better. That is such a rough go. | ||
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On November 24 2015 05:56 Trfel wrote: Show nested quote + FarahBlackwing played quite well, honestly. No clue why everyone was scumreading her.On November 24 2015 05:51 disformation wrote: On November 24 2015 05:50 Trfel wrote: Honestly, the Damdred replacement was pretty awful for us. I'd stuck my neck out way too far pushing FarahBlackwing, Damdred's replacement didn't only kill any push against that slot, but he also knew conclusively that I wouldn't do that as town. We were actually planning to counterclaim FarahBlackwing on Day 3.... Yeah, can totally see that. Mentioned before that farah and moosy of all ppl being blue was bad for you guys. Getting Damdred in the vet slot and losing the roleblocker was super incredible bad for you guys. ^^ It wasn't that Damdred replacing in for FarahBlackwing was such an "unfair substitution". It was just that it happened after we were already committed to a certain strategy, and replacements always change strategy. I'd say that Damdred's #1 advantage over FarahBlackwing when he replaced in was simply having a fresh approach, and the continual frustration and pressure was the whole reason we were pushing FarahBlackwing to begin with. I am sorry for upsetting FarahBlackwing so much, though, I got carried away with it. Yeah, but you were scum, so as long as you weren't being a dick about it (like calling her obscenities) I think you did what you needed to do. I was just very unclear with the stonewalling after her claim, and whether she understood why claiming with such a long period of time to go in the cycle was such a bad thing. I personally only picked up on that from observing nearly a dozen games prior to playing to be honest, and I probably should have asked her if she was aware or what she was doing rather than just go all out accusing her. | ||
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Like I only knew that late votes = bussing was from experience in newbie 13. My only prior mafia experience was real life and everyone just throws their hands up all at once. But trying to lay out the votes this game I will say is much much easier with the tracker but even then it's hard to tell timing motivations, even with Shining's statements on number of switches, I would have never picked up on ritoky's switching as a bad thing. are there any guides or anything to try and pick up voting analysis? it seems so effective but so difficult to understand. fuck. | ||
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On November 24 2015 05:53 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Also, it was fun to coach Disinformation. Very active and enthusiastic. I hope you keep playing because you're an enrichment to the site I enjoyed playing with you as well disformation. Game is much more fun when we're both town. Drink up mate. | ||
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On November 24 2015 06:06 Trfel wrote: Show nested quote + It requires a ton of context. Just looking at the vote count isn't good enough, you have to consider the vote count and the thread sentiment at the time when the votes in question were made.On November 24 2015 06:04 NocturneMage wrote: One thing I'd like to ask from more experienced players is vote analysis. That shit still confuses me mostly and any post on it I feel like I have to play 20+ games to really understand how to analyse town and mafia actions from votes. Like I only knew that late votes = bussing was from experience in newbie 13. My only prior mafia experience was real life and everyone just throws their hands up all at once. But trying to lay out the votes this game I will say is much much easier with the tracker but even then it's hard to tell timing motivations, even with Shining's statements on number of switches, I would have never picked up on ritoky's switching as a bad thing. are there any guides or anything to try and pick up voting analysis? it seems so effective but so difficult to understand. fuck. Once you do that, it's actually really simple. You just look at the motivation and the implications of each vote, how the wagons are changing, and what the result of that is. Or you can ask ritoky, he has some really special voting analysis tricks, but I doubt he's willing to share XD nah, I get it. I'd like one more game where I can get coaching on voting analysis specifically even if I am an open player. either that or a guide or something but at least this gives me a rough start. I think for the most part I looked town enough to not get lynched, it seems like people would have just fear/tinfoil lynched me in mylo, and I felt I have made good points and read carefully all game. so that was somewhat concerning. at least if nothing else reading mafia qt, you people were threatened by me to the point you almost shot me night 1 over moosy. so I think I did something right. and for the people tinfoiling me as scum (lol Fecalfeast) I don't know what to say. my first game I read HTS's scum games when I was drawn as scum, but that didn't help me any, I think I just need more experience, but then again she has a different approach to playing scum than I do. | ||
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I really don't know what to say, I am just very hesitant to trust meta reads on players I don't know from players I don't know and that just makes it very difficult to tell people's intentions. and I have been taught certain types of meta is faked (like Trfel's tone this game) or broken. so getting around that? that's hard for me being new around here. that said, if anyone has any pointers for me, let me know. | ||
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I have a question separately for MoosyDoosy - why did you think I was mafia? | ||
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On November 24 2015 07:23 disformation wrote: Was there an obs qt? can i haz link? it was posted at the very bottom of the concession post. | ||
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On November 24 2015 07:34 ritoky wrote: Show nested quote + On November 24 2015 07:30 Fecalfeast wrote: Nah you had me hook line and sinker I wouldn't have voted you there if I was awake rit you were my plan for mylo whether i regretted it or not; since disfo decided randomly half way through the game he not longer wanted to be in my pocket. you also wanted to save me for mylo from your posts which is why I was heavily suspicious of you. honest question, was that setup argument you were making straight up BS or is it something you would have pushed as town? that shit is honestly over my head. and from your posts you wanted to push me over disformation. | ||
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