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On October 30 2016 03:26 disformation wrote: I saw the op and was like. "why does this thread link to my second game"
You should try reliving the glory days of Waffle Boy sometime
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On October 30 2016 04:53 cakepie wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2016 04:15 NeverUnlucky wrote: Voting the last option was tempting. You wouldn't be able to fake it, though. People who are really that excited for the theme are usually dead giveaways in the thread. Show nested quote +On October 30 2016 04:33 beentheredonethat wrote: If you are okay with me being absent from 10.-13/14.11, I am glad to serve as a co-host minion. Thanks for the offer. I'll wait a bit to see if there's anyone with better availability before I decide.
Not an expert, but I'm pretty sure that NU meant that he wanted an excuse to shit-post
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+ Show Spoiler +I'm going to sound dumb here, but wouldn't Setups 3 and 4 be town-sided? Town have 2 TPRs and the mafia have no PR roles to counter them.
Setup 2 also has too many Protective roles given the BP who cannot die/ be roleblocked, the Jailkeeper who can heal someone/ roleblock the mafia and the only role mafia has to counter them is the Roleblocker who can't roleblock the BP.
I haven't played in those setups before so if someone has evidence that said setups are balanced then I'll retract my concerns. This is just what stood out to me when reading the OP.
EDIT: Just realised that this is the Matrix6 setup from MS. My bad
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On October 31 2016 09:24 NeverUnlucky wrote: Sure. c: One more /in.
This is what is going to happen this game:
1. I will roll town. 2. Game starts; unoriginal players'll say "First confirmed town!" 3. One town will have a weird or even scummy entry. 4. Calix will tunnel said player. NeverUnlucky will have a good read on Calix based on the tunnel. 5. Said town will claim that the intent behind his entry was to stir up conversation. 6. Everyone will mock him and some will town-read him. 7. Active players’ll shitpost, lurkers’ll lurk. 8. One player will case another player who’ll become the main wagon, but the case is weak, thus : 9. People will initiate a CFD at EoD, and a town will die.
Jokes on you. You won't see a single tunnel from me this round.
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I suspect that mahrgell decided to read previous games in order to get a feel for the players he would be in the game with.
Sadly this probably means that I'm going to be deluged with shitty and inaccurate meta reads
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I'd like to think that I've learned a few things from CM/ the Newbie game regardless of which alignment I roll this round.
Only you are tryhard enough to read past games in the pre-game.
You overestimate me so.
[insert obligatory pre-game excuse about posting less and in a different fashion here]
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On November 01 2016 00:37 Shapelog wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2016 22:01 mahrgell wrote:On October 31 2016 21:33 Shapelog wrote:On October 31 2016 18:50 Foreman wrote:On October 31 2016 09:24 NeverUnlucky wrote: Sure. c: One more /in.
This is what is going to happen this game:
1. I will roll town. 2. Game starts; unoriginal players'll say "First confirmed town!" 3. One town will have a weird or even scummy entry. 4. Calix will tunnel said player. NeverUnlucky will have a good read on Calix based on the tunnel. 5. Said town will claim that the intent behind his entry was to stir up conversation. 6. Everyone will mock him and some will town-read him. 7. Active players’ll shitpost, lurkers’ll lurk. 8. One player will case another player who’ll become the main wagon, but the case is weak, thus : 9. People will initiate a CFD at EoD, and a town will die.
You clearly have an agenda. FoS: NeverUnlucky Actually, all he has done, is back himself in a corner with you if he is scum. See number 4 states that he will have a good read on you, in the case that you tunnel. If no such read was to come, or a crappy one, then he would look less credible. Perhaps, you could argue that 6 could set up a possible scum read for him (if people keep scum reading him) but that is weak. He also is forced in this to read the "One town with a weird entry" as town, due to wording. Which is bad for scum, as it knocks off a ML for day 1 at least. In fact, the only way this benefits scum is if the person to make the weird entry is scum buddies, which is a high risk, low reward (a weak reason to TR at most) move IMO The rest of it is unpredictable and useless, since it revolves on other players doing it. Sorry, regaining my mafia mindset. EDIT: He also would have to point out the case is weak too due to #8 and make reads accordly. When NU wrote in #4 about "good read" all he meant was "start a 20 page shouting duel with Calix, with both calling each other names, so that all other players get dazed and just want to hide from the thread". Which in the end always benefits scum. Having them in the same game seems to always benefit scum, no matter which roles they roll. #prayforrollingscum #scumOP The problem with that meta is, that they both have to hold this up, as this is their typical townie meta. If they were not yelling at each other, this would strongly hint at them being scum. Oh yeah I forgot who I was talking about. It would have to depend then on how he does it, and it is overly obv. that he is faking it (the fight) with Calix then, or them not doing it as you said.
So much incentive to not do it this game
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This mahrgell person sounds fascinating. Why would you ever want to kill him first?
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You keep saying that you're going to downgrade me and kiss HF's arse instead of mine and all that, but I've yet to see you actually do that.
Trust me, you have my full and unwavering support with such endeavours.
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On November 01 2016 01:49 NeverUnlucky wrote: When's the last time I've kissed your ass? BFN aka 3 months ago?
You ought to stop taking everything so seriously, seriously. That obviously was a trivial post.
You're missing the point.
But since you won't get it, I'd say that hyper-focusing on me in HM 3 was also an example since you scum-read me based on the stupidest shit and when I flipped town, immediately concluded that "Calix is LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO META-READ GUISE"
Which isn't entirely wrong but the reasoning sucks.
I am curious as to how mahrgell concluded that we're opposites though. I hope he expands on that point.
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On November 01 2016 01:48 mahrgell wrote:I think you are both scum. First of all it is obvious you are trying to distance from each other, in an almost unnatural rough way. Second you both consider me a noob, so NU wants to direct the lynch on an easy target. Meanwhile Calix wants to suck up on a noob for easy towncred to profit from it in a lylo situation. Both are typical scumplays in the early! Now you both should be lynched... And for order, there is an easy tiebreaker.... NU writes my name wrong, so he has to go first. ##Vote NeverUnlucky+ Show Spoiler +I'm just practicing. This is like pregame warmup.
You sound like you come from MS. That's my theory anyway
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Nah, we have only known each other for a few months at most but both of us are stubborn and like arguing, so there's that.
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On November 01 2016 01:56 NeverUnlucky wrote: I already very much like marghell.
Stating the obvious. Such scum.
At this rate, our filters will go onto two pages before we even get roles.
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Skynx for MVP.
I know absolutely nothing about the flavour but I can appreciate the effort and flair put in regardless.
##WatchWarmly
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On November 01 2016 23:43 cakepie wrote:>> Post #4 << has been updated with a little side experiment I'd like to run during this game. Please consider participating!
Ooh, this sounds cool.
If the game starts today then I probably won't be around until the late evening.
Break a leg, everyone
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First the worst
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Such an inspired entrance, OxO.
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NU's boring. Nothing new to see there.
ExO, should I be asking why you're not 'largely communicating in gifs'? Don't get me wrong, I'm glad you're not, but I'm curious as to what made you change your mind.
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On November 03 2016 03:06 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 03:04 Calix wrote: NU's boring. Nothing new to see there.
ExO, should I be asking why you're not 'largely communicating in gifs'? Don't get me wrong, I'm glad you're not, but I'm curious as to what made you change your mind.
So if you ARE mainly communicating in gifs then why claim a role first thing before doing that? Seems illogical for town to do.
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On November 03 2016 03:11 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 03:08 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 03:06 ExO_ wrote:On November 03 2016 03:04 Calix wrote: NU's boring. Nothing new to see there.
ExO, should I be asking why you're not 'largely communicating in gifs'? Don't get me wrong, I'm glad you're not, but I'm curious as to what made you change your mind. So if you ARE mainly communicating in gifs then why claim a role first thing before doing that? Seems illogical for town to do. You think it's illogical for me to immediate claim VT before posting a gif? Give me a break. If anything your attempt to get me to revert to gif posting only and now trying to throw shade on me is indicative of your scum alignment
Please point me to where I 'attempted to get you to revert to gif posting only' if you'd be so kind. You'll note that I specifically said 'I'm glad you are not posting in gifs' (which you then responded to...with a gif...instead of a response)
And yes, it's illogical for town to claim a role and then post a gif in lieu of a coherent response.
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And it's illogical because claiming a role and then shitposting when asked about the gif thing just means that people will take you less seriously which isn't something that town should want.
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On November 03 2016 03:15 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 03:12 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 03:11 ExO_ wrote:On November 03 2016 03:08 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 03:06 ExO_ wrote:On November 03 2016 03:04 Calix wrote: NU's boring. Nothing new to see there.
ExO, should I be asking why you're not 'largely communicating in gifs'? Don't get me wrong, I'm glad you're not, but I'm curious as to what made you change your mind. So if you ARE mainly communicating in gifs then why claim a role first thing before doing that? Seems illogical for town to do. You think it's illogical for me to immediate claim VT before posting a gif? Give me a break. If anything your attempt to get me to revert to gif posting only and now trying to throw shade on me is indicative of your scum alignment Please point me to where I 'attempted to get you to revert to gif posting only' if you'd be so kind. You'll note that I specifically said 'I'm glad you are not posting in gifs' (which you then responded to...with a gif...instead of a response) And yes, it's illogical for town to claim a role and then post a gif in lieu of a coherent response. If you were actually happy I wasn't posting gifs, why would you bring up the fact that I said I would post primarily gifs? I think any reasonable person realizes that's much more likely to get me to post gifs, than to offer an explanation that will ultimately be irrelevant to the game. You brought it up in the hopes that I would stick to my word and posts only gifs, instead of helping town. You are scum ##vote Calix
I was asking about a change in posting style between what you said you'd post in the pre-game and what your first post was...which you still haven't responded to.
Your second sentence makes zero sense. I ask a question to get an answer to the question, not to have someone shit-post. You are blaming me for an action which you actively chose to take > providing an answer.
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On November 03 2016 03:19 Foreman wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 03:08 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 03:06 ExO_ wrote:On November 03 2016 03:04 Calix wrote: NU's boring. Nothing new to see there.
ExO, should I be asking why you're not 'largely communicating in gifs'? Don't get me wrong, I'm glad you're not, but I'm curious as to what made you change your mind. So if you ARE mainly communicating in gifs then why claim a role first thing before doing that? Seems illogical for town to do. Way to overanalyze. So tryhard that it makes me think I should ##Vote Calix
Sheep vote noted.
How is claiming that posting gifs after claiming a role tryhard?
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And as a side note, how is being tryhard a scum tell?
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On November 03 2016 03:21 NeverUnlucky wrote: Haiii guises, let us keep this atmosphere positive!
I agree with Mr. Foreman and Mr. ExO that Calix's push is not her greatest, and I also agree with Calix that ExO's defensive response looks scummy!
Foreman, may I ask you where you are coming from in terms of community? c:
I'm not pushing ExO. That's being extremely generous.
I never claimed that ExO was scummy, just illogical. I didn't even call him defensive. Where did you get that from?
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On November 03 2016 03:25 NeverUnlucky wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 03:23 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 03:21 NeverUnlucky wrote: Haiii guises, let us keep this atmosphere positive!
I agree with Mr. Foreman and Mr. ExO that Calix's push is not her greatest, and I also agree with Calix that ExO's defensive response looks scummy!
Foreman, may I ask you where you are coming from in terms of community? c: I'm not pushing ExO. That's being extremely generous. I never claimed that ExO was scummy, just illogical. I didn't even call him defensive. Where did you get that from? I said that.
Your quote says "I agree WITH CALIX" which implies that I said "ExO being defensive is scummy" at some point.
Clarify this now, please.
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On November 03 2016 03:25 ExO_ wrote: What about my response is overly defensive? I'm pointing out that essentially reminding me I promised to "post gifs" Isn't going to help town in any way. Furthermore, its not something a reasonable person would think would help town.
Assuming for a second I took the time to answer Calix's question about why I didn't just post gifs: How does that help town? My explanation doesn't help town at all, nor would it be expected to help town. However a reasonably expectable reaction to Calix's question would be for me to start posting gifs again.
So long story short, I think Calix posted that in the hopes I would post gifs more and not help town
The reasonable expectation would be that you say "I am not posting solely in gifs because of X" not to shit-post to a question made in the early stages.
I don't like shit-posting, regardless of my alignment.
I don't want an answer now though. It's irrelevant because we have this game-relevant topic to contend with.
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On November 03 2016 03:29 NeverUnlucky wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 03:26 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 03:25 NeverUnlucky wrote:On November 03 2016 03:23 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 03:21 NeverUnlucky wrote: Haiii guises, let us keep this atmosphere positive!
I agree with Mr. Foreman and Mr. ExO that Calix's push is not her greatest, and I also agree with Calix that ExO's defensive response looks scummy!
Foreman, may I ask you where you are coming from in terms of community? c: I'm not pushing ExO. That's being extremely generous. I never claimed that ExO was scummy, just illogical. I didn't even call him defensive. Where did you get that from? I said that. Your quote says "I agree WITH CALIX" which implies that I said "ExO being defensive is scummy" at some point. Clarify this now, please. I actually don't agree with the points you've made. ExO's defensive, that's as much as one can say on his subject. Offski.
I for one do not like NU. His tone seems weird, he makes statements that are factually inaccurate/ putting words into my mouth and then retracts them when called out on them. I don't understand why.
Given that he's just disappeared, I'll wait for a response before concluding anything for sure but he's giving me bad vibes at the moment.
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On November 03 2016 03:29 Foreman wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 03:20 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 03:19 Foreman wrote:On November 03 2016 03:08 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 03:06 ExO_ wrote:On November 03 2016 03:04 Calix wrote: NU's boring. Nothing new to see there.
ExO, should I be asking why you're not 'largely communicating in gifs'? Don't get me wrong, I'm glad you're not, but I'm curious as to what made you change your mind. So if you ARE mainly communicating in gifs then why claim a role first thing before doing that? Seems illogical for town to do. Way to overanalyze. So tryhard that it makes me think I should ##Vote Calix Sheep vote noted. How is claiming that posting gifs after claiming a role tryhard? So you accuse me of sheeping, then question my push. Discredit noted. Giving somebody crap for not shitting up the thread has a couple different scum motivations behind it: 1) You are going after an easy target for not doing what they said they'd do (after they got some friction about it when they announced it, iirc?) 2) Your post clearly nudged them to return to that practice despite your transparent disclaimer, which would be pro-scum if they were to do so.
You are voting right after I received a vote. There is no discrediting here, only using evidence to draw a conclusion.
Why would I not question your push? I don't consider 'tryhard' to be a scum-tell and wanted to know what your logic was for thinking so.
I am not scum-reading ExO. That's not 'going after an easy target', it's asking for a response to a simple question.
No it didn't. I asked why they weren't doing it. That cannot be interpreted as a subtle nudge to keep doing it in any world.
It's not pro-scum. It's anti-town.
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On November 03 2016 03:29 ExO_ wrote: Also to clarify why I'm claiming my VT role right now:
I'm getting it out the open right now. I think in a game this size trying to fake claim to get scum to target me would be a waste of time. So I'm letting everyone know now I don't have any abilities I cannot do anything at night and can only vote. You can choose to either believe me or not, but I'm telling the truth
This is another example of anti-town behaviour which I do not agree with.
That is NOT the same as pro-scum. Allow me to clear that one up.
Some people seem to be misinterpreting my stance on ExO as "scum-lean" when it's not.
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On November 03 2016 03:36 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 03:35 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 03:29 ExO_ wrote: Also to clarify why I'm claiming my VT role right now:
I'm getting it out the open right now. I think in a game this size trying to fake claim to get scum to target me would be a waste of time. So I'm letting everyone know now I don't have any abilities I cannot do anything at night and can only vote. You can choose to either believe me or not, but I'm telling the truth This is another example of anti-town behaviour which I do not agree with. That is NOT the same as pro-scum. Allow me to clear that one up. Some people seem to be misinterpreting my stance on ExO as "scum-lean" when it's not. You cannot claim I'm being anti-town and then back away from it saying I'm not being pro scum anti-town=pro scum And how is this anti-town behavior anyway? You're 100% scum and you messed up already. ez game
Incorrect. Pro-scum behaviour is something that ONLY scum are capable of doing. Town never act in pro-scum ways (short of game-throwing which isn't 'playing' the game anyway) because they are town and their actions are, in their own way, working towards their wincon of finding and eliminating scum.
Anti-town behaviour is only detrimental to town and is done by both alignments. (e.g., shit-posting)
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On November 03 2016 03:38 Foreman wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 03:33 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 03:29 Foreman wrote:On November 03 2016 03:20 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 03:19 Foreman wrote:On November 03 2016 03:08 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 03:06 ExO_ wrote:On November 03 2016 03:04 Calix wrote: NU's boring. Nothing new to see there.
ExO, should I be asking why you're not 'largely communicating in gifs'? Don't get me wrong, I'm glad you're not, but I'm curious as to what made you change your mind. So if you ARE mainly communicating in gifs then why claim a role first thing before doing that? Seems illogical for town to do. Way to overanalyze. So tryhard that it makes me think I should ##Vote Calix Sheep vote noted. How is claiming that posting gifs after claiming a role tryhard? So you accuse me of sheeping, then question my push. Discredit noted. Giving somebody crap for not shitting up the thread has a couple different scum motivations behind it: 1) You are going after an easy target for not doing what they said they'd do (after they got some friction about it when they announced it, iirc?) 2) Your post clearly nudged them to return to that practice despite your transparent disclaimer, which would be pro-scum if they were to do so. You are voting right after I received a vote. There is no discrediting here, only using evidence to draw a conclusion. Why would I not question your push? I don't consider 'tryhard' to be a scum-tell and wanted to know what your logic was for thinking so. I am not scum-reading ExO. That's not 'going after an easy target', it's asking for a response to a simple question. No it didn't. I asked why they weren't doing it. That cannot be interpreted as a subtle nudge to keep doing it in any world. It's not pro-scum. It's anti-town. Sheeping is voting using somebody else's reasons. I voted with my own push. Not the same thing. If you're not scumreading ExO, your vote is in the wrong place. Shitting up a thread is pro-scum because it allows scum to more easily hide in the noise it creates. I may be new to this site, but don't think for a second that means you can bullshit me.
Correction. I am not voting for ExO and you should be suspicious of me if I was given that you (correctly) think I am not scum-reading him.
See my previous response for my take on anti-town/ pro-scum.
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If anyone wishes to comment on my 100% game-relevant thoughts on NU as well, I'd appreciate it.
Top of the page, lovies.
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On November 03 2016 03:47 Foreman wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 03:38 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 03:36 ExO_ wrote:On November 03 2016 03:35 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 03:29 ExO_ wrote: Also to clarify why I'm claiming my VT role right now:
I'm getting it out the open right now. I think in a game this size trying to fake claim to get scum to target me would be a waste of time. So I'm letting everyone know now I don't have any abilities I cannot do anything at night and can only vote. You can choose to either believe me or not, but I'm telling the truth This is another example of anti-town behaviour which I do not agree with. That is NOT the same as pro-scum. Allow me to clear that one up. Some people seem to be misinterpreting my stance on ExO as "scum-lean" when it's not. You cannot claim I'm being anti-town and then back away from it saying I'm not being pro scum anti-town=pro scum And how is this anti-town behavior anyway? You're 100% scum and you messed up already. ez game Incorrect. Pro-scum behaviour is something that ONLY scum are capable of doing. Town never act in pro-scum ways (short of game-throwing which isn't 'playing' the game anyway) because they are town and their actions are, in their own way, working towards their wincon of finding and eliminating scum. Anti-town behaviour is only detrimental to town and is done by both alignments. (e.g., shit-posting) Incorrect. Pro-scum is anything that actively helps scum and can be done by either alignment. Village idiots are often pro-scum as well as anti-town. Anti-town hinders town, but does not actively help scum. Creating noise in the game thread is pro-scum because it actively helps scum hide or gives them an excuse to lay low. Pushing for a lynch on moonlogic grounds is anti-town because that moonlogic lynch might be on either scum or town.
I disagree. However I think that this is falling into theoretical grounds (which is NAI) so I don't want to continue discussing it. Unless you think that my ideas of pro-scum vs anti-town are alignment-indicative, I am cutting this line of conversation short.
If you would be so kind as to filter NU's posts (after his first page which is all pre-game) then we'll get back on track.
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On November 03 2016 03:54 mahrgell wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 03:30 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 03:29 NeverUnlucky wrote:On November 03 2016 03:26 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 03:25 NeverUnlucky wrote:On November 03 2016 03:23 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 03:21 NeverUnlucky wrote: Haiii guises, let us keep this atmosphere positive!
I agree with Mr. Foreman and Mr. ExO that Calix's push is not her greatest, and I also agree with Calix that ExO's defensive response looks scummy!
Foreman, may I ask you where you are coming from in terms of community? c: I'm not pushing ExO. That's being extremely generous. I never claimed that ExO was scummy, just illogical. I didn't even call him defensive. Where did you get that from? I said that. Your quote says "I agree WITH CALIX" which implies that I said "ExO being defensive is scummy" at some point. Clarify this now, please. I actually don't agree with the points you've made. ExO's defensive, that's as much as one can say on his subject. Offski. I for one do not like NU. His tone seems weird, he makes statements that are factually inaccurate/ putting words into my mouth and then retracts them when called out on them. I don't understand why. Given that he's just disappeared, I'll wait for a response before concluding anything for sure but he's giving me bad vibes at the moment. Well 1) I share NU's interpretation of what happened. 2) I appreciate his call for civil communication, from what I read in Cruisetrip he could have also easily heated up the fire without it looking worse than his usual play. 3) But I also agree with you, that it is weird for him to "buddy" you, by pretending you were sharing his self made points. I don't think there is much reason for him to try to appease you.
With regards to Point 2, he is much tamer when he is scum. I'm not claiming that this is a 100% guaranteed tell (he is also busy and this has led to him being more subdued in the past) but it's in the back of my mind.
Well in my opinion, this is how it went down:
- He asks why ExO is being overly defensive. - I call ExO anti-town. - He misrepresented my positions by claiming that he agreed that I was a) scum-reading ExO and b) scum-reading ExO due to being overly defensive. - I ask him where he interpreted this from as those are not my positions. - He denies claiming this. - I tell him that he literally said in his quote "I agree with Calix"
This is where the scummy part is. He immediately backtracks from that position by saying "well I don't agree" and leaves it at that.
That's scummy because this progression could be NU trying to plant ideas inside of my head without actually taking responsibility for having the idea.
This is a compelling explanation because the ExO/ Calix discussion was still going on at this time. Thus, it's possible that he was trying to manipulate me into agreeing that ExO's behaviour is scummy.
It's also possible because I am well-known for getting myself into tunnels so I am a viable target.
So yeah, discuss and all that.
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On November 03 2016 04:09 mahrgell wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 04:01 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 03:54 mahrgell wrote:On November 03 2016 03:30 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 03:29 NeverUnlucky wrote:On November 03 2016 03:26 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 03:25 NeverUnlucky wrote:On November 03 2016 03:23 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 03:21 NeverUnlucky wrote: Haiii guises, let us keep this atmosphere positive!
I agree with Mr. Foreman and Mr. ExO that Calix's push is not her greatest, and I also agree with Calix that ExO's defensive response looks scummy!
Foreman, may I ask you where you are coming from in terms of community? c: I'm not pushing ExO. That's being extremely generous. I never claimed that ExO was scummy, just illogical. I didn't even call him defensive. Where did you get that from? I said that. Your quote says "I agree WITH CALIX" which implies that I said "ExO being defensive is scummy" at some point. Clarify this now, please. I actually don't agree with the points you've made. ExO's defensive, that's as much as one can say on his subject. Offski. I for one do not like NU. His tone seems weird, he makes statements that are factually inaccurate/ putting words into my mouth and then retracts them when called out on them. I don't understand why. Given that he's just disappeared, I'll wait for a response before concluding anything for sure but he's giving me bad vibes at the moment. Well 1) I share NU's interpretation of what happened. 2) I appreciate his call for civil communication, from what I read in Cruisetrip he could have also easily heated up the fire without it looking worse than his usual play. 3) But I also agree with you, that it is weird for him to "buddy" you, by pretending you were sharing his self made points. I don't think there is much reason for him to try to appease you. + Show Spoiler + With regards to Point 2, he is much tamer when he is scum. I'm not claiming that this is a 100% guaranteed tell (he is also busy and this has led to him being more subdued in the past) but it's in the back of my mind.
Well in my opinion, this is how it went down:
- He asks why ExO is being overly defensive. - I call ExO anti-town. - He misrepresented my positions by claiming that he agreed that I was a) scum-reading ExO and b) scum-reading ExO due to being overly defensive. - I ask him where he interpreted this from as those are not my positions. - He denies claiming this. - I tell him that he literally said in his quote "I agree with Calix"
This is where the scummy part is. He immediately backtracks from that position by saying "well I don't agree" and leaves it at that.
That's scummy because this progression could be NU trying to plant ideas inside of my head without actually taking responsibility for having the idea.
This is a compelling explanation because the ExO/ Calix discussion was still going on at this time. Thus, it's possible that he was trying to manipulate me into agreeing that ExO's behaviour is scummy.
It's also possible because I am well-known for getting myself into tunnels so I am a viable target.
So yeah, discuss and all that.
Yes, this is pretty much my 3). I fully agree with you here. Also he started voting Exo. Now of course he will most likely tell us, that he pregame announced he was PL'ing gifs. But that is just the same category as the usual "totally busy, won't post" pregame crap... Nice excuse if you roll mafia, and who cares if you don't do it and roll town. From a townie I would expect a calmer attitude instead of throwing votes on someone who posted one textpost and one gif. He could have easily stayed on Exo and push that lynch, if there is some movement. Or he could stay there, if he doesn't want to vote a scumbuddy... Or he could just switch as easy.... Overall... Not liking it. But let's wait for NU to explain himself.
I don't think his ExO vote is that relevant to the case at hand. If I recall correctly, he voted for ExO as soon as ExO posted that gif (so before the posts I flagged up) and he's a bit mad with his votes at the best of times.
I also disagree about making pre-flip associations. That relies on too many assumptions and generally leads to a string of MLs. They're only useful AFTER a scum player has flipped so I'd be careful with those. I've fallen into that trap myself
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On November 03 2016 04:10 Foreman wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 04:01 mahrgell wrote: @Foreman Now that you noticed your misread. Are you still going after Calix, or have you shifted your focus on NU? Would the argument you made for Calix also apply to NU? Or where do you see the difference there? The fact he isn't voting ExO does not make his push any less disingenuous.
Knock knock, Calix is here, asking you to read my NU case like a good dear.
Is my NU case also disingenuous? If so, how?
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On November 03 2016 04:17 Foreman wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 04:14 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 04:10 Foreman wrote:On November 03 2016 04:01 mahrgell wrote: @Foreman Now that you noticed your misread. Are you still going after Calix, or have you shifted your focus on NU? Would the argument you made for Calix also apply to NU? Or where do you see the difference there? The fact he isn't voting ExO does not make his push any less disingenuous. Knock knock, Calix is here, asking you to read my NU case like a good dear. Is my NU case also disingenuous? If so, how? Considering you've yet to acquit yourself for that shady ExO push, I'm not concerned about your NU push when he isn't even here to respond to it.
Why do I need to 'acquit myself' for you to take my NU case seriously?
You either agree with it or you don't. My 'credibility' has nothing to do with wherever you think I make valid points on NU.
Poor reaction from you.
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On November 03 2016 04:23 Foreman wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 04:20 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 04:17 Foreman wrote:On November 03 2016 04:14 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 04:10 Foreman wrote:On November 03 2016 04:01 mahrgell wrote: @Foreman Now that you noticed your misread. Are you still going after Calix, or have you shifted your focus on NU? Would the argument you made for Calix also apply to NU? Or where do you see the difference there? The fact he isn't voting ExO does not make his push any less disingenuous. Knock knock, Calix is here, asking you to read my NU case like a good dear. Is my NU case also disingenuous? If so, how? Considering you've yet to acquit yourself for that shady ExO push, I'm not concerned about your NU push when he isn't even here to respond to it. Why do I need to 'acquit myself' for you to take my NU case seriously? You either agree with it or you don't. My 'credibility' has nothing to do with wherever you think I make valid points on NU. Poor reaction from you. Lol whatever dude. I'm not wasting my time humoring scum, and right now that's what you are to me. If you want me to take you seriously, I suggest you take me seriously.
Ah, it's the MS classic of "you're totally scum so I'm ignoring everything you say" shtick.
How anyone has such a strong read that they are willing to dismiss everything that I say post-scum-read with less than 200 posts in the entire thread is beyond me.
So do explain, how have you concluded that I'm so scummy this early on?
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On November 03 2016 04:28 Foreman wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 04:24 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 04:23 Foreman wrote:On November 03 2016 04:20 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 04:17 Foreman wrote:On November 03 2016 04:14 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 04:10 Foreman wrote:On November 03 2016 04:01 mahrgell wrote: @Foreman Now that you noticed your misread. Are you still going after Calix, or have you shifted your focus on NU? Would the argument you made for Calix also apply to NU? Or where do you see the difference there? The fact he isn't voting ExO does not make his push any less disingenuous. Knock knock, Calix is here, asking you to read my NU case like a good dear. Is my NU case also disingenuous? If so, how? Considering you've yet to acquit yourself for that shady ExO push, I'm not concerned about your NU push when he isn't even here to respond to it. Why do I need to 'acquit myself' for you to take my NU case seriously? You either agree with it or you don't. My 'credibility' has nothing to do with wherever you think I make valid points on NU. Poor reaction from you. Lol whatever dude. I'm not wasting my time humoring scum, and right now that's what you are to me. If you want me to take you seriously, I suggest you take me seriously. Ah, it's the MS classic of "you're totally scum so I'm ignoring everything you say" shtick. How anyone has such a strong read that they are willing to dismiss everything that I say post-scum-read with less than 200 posts in the entire thread is beyond me. So do explain, how have you concluded that I'm so scummy this early on? You've yet to address any of my points against you with anything but hand-waving. My case did not hinge on your vote, so that correction was a minor note, not a read changer.
Case, what case? You are doing a piss-poor job of trying to convince anyone that I'm scum. You're not reconsidering your read or considering wherever you are wrong.
You're not doing anything but using "Calix so scum" as a reason to ignore my NU case entirely.
Why do you only bring up that I've 'ignored' your points now when I'm asking you to consider my points on NU?
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On November 03 2016 04:32 mahrgell wrote:gosh Calix, can we please stop post synced? Also after what I read from you last game I'm afraid of myself, if I share your thoughts... I don't want to be like you Sorry.
It's ironic because you're insinuating that I am a bad player...but I'm pretty sure that you misinterpreted what Foreman said. He was calling me scum, not you.
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Man, having everyone be a bunch of slow-pokes with typing is making me bored. I'm just going to vote now.
##vote NeverUnlucky
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On November 03 2016 04:40 mahrgell wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 04:35 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 04:32 mahrgell wrote:gosh Calix, can we please stop post synced? Also after what I read from you last game I'm afraid of myself, if I share your thoughts... I don't want to be like you Sorry. It's ironic because you're insinuating that I am a bad player...but I'm pretty sure that you misinterpreted what Foreman said. He was calling me scum, not you. I am aware that he is only going after you. But as I share your concern regarding NU... And would like the same answer to be answered... He refuses to answer me, because he considers you to be scum. I don't agree on the policy of "I don't talk to who I consider scum". I consider this antitown, but I understand interpretations on this may differ. But I really dislike the policy of "I don't talk to you, because a player I consider to be scum shared your concerns". This is for sure antitown. So either he considers me scum too, or he is just antitown. Both conclusions are not really giving him any plus points in my book.
It is extremely anti-town to ignore anyone save for red-checked players or the like. It shows that he is not willing to reconsider his reads and will be prone to tunnel-vision. (this is something I am specifically trying to avoid)
I remain uncertain on Foreman. I'm inclined to scum-read him purely for his pathetic dismissal of my NU case (aka the most substantial post made this game) but I'm biased there as I think my case is pretty good. Furthermore, some of his posts have minor town-tells in them. (nothing convincing though) Concluding null as it stands.
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On November 03 2016 04:43 mahrgell wrote:Oh, and about me saying you are bad. Not what I meant. You are just sometimes very... overzealous and tunneled. This seems to weaken your own reads, but at the same time stirs up enough dust for others to make valuable reads, so I don't even consider it a bad thing. I usually try to stay more distanced and openminded though. And use your stirred up chaos :D
Trying out a more level-headed play-style this game...for my standards anyway. I will still be the person doing most of the moving-and-shaking shenanigans while everyone sits around with their cups of tea and whines
That's not a dismissal of your play-style, however. Having different players/ styles in a game results in a better game so I agree that it's a good thing.
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On November 03 2016 04:44 mahrgell wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 04:40 Calix wrote: Man, having everyone be a bunch of slow-pokes with typing is making me bored. I'm just going to vote now.
##vote NeverUnlucky Didn't you want to wait until NU comes back and answers? While I support your points about him, I still want to see his answer before I can support this push. And for the time being, I'm more looking at Foreman than at NU anyway.
I'm impatient and nobody else is doing anything.
On November 03 2016 04:46 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 04:44 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 04:40 mahrgell wrote:On November 03 2016 04:35 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 04:32 mahrgell wrote:gosh Calix, can we please stop post synced? Also after what I read from you last game I'm afraid of myself, if I share your thoughts... I don't want to be like you Sorry. It's ironic because you're insinuating that I am a bad player...but I'm pretty sure that you misinterpreted what Foreman said. He was calling me scum, not you. I am aware that he is only going after you. But as I share your concern regarding NU... And would like the same answer to be answered... He refuses to answer me, because he considers you to be scum. I don't agree on the policy of "I don't talk to who I consider scum". I consider this antitown, but I understand interpretations on this may differ. But I really dislike the policy of "I don't talk to you, because a player I consider to be scum shared your concerns". This is for sure antitown. So either he considers me scum too, or he is just antitown. Both conclusions are not really giving him any plus points in my book. It is extremely anti-town to ignore anyone save for red-checked players or the like. It shows that he is not willing to reconsider his reads and will be prone to tunnel-vision. (this is something I am specifically trying to avoid) I remain uncertain on Foreman. I'm inclined to scum-read him purely for his pathetic dismissal of my NU case (aka the most substantial post made this game) but I'm biased there as I think my case is pretty good. Furthermore, some of his posts have minor town-tells in them. (nothing convincing though) Concluding null as it stands. How can you be so hesitant to scum read anyone? All of your reads come built in with "but I might be wrong." You back pedal on everything you've said so far and leave yourself a way out. Almost as if you are afraid to hard scum read somebody because you know you are lying. I'm quite convinced you are scum leaving yourself as many outs as possible.
That's not back-pedaling. I provided arguments for both sides for Foreman before concluding null.
I have never had problems with hardcore scum-reading players in games as scum. You are conflating "measured reads" with uncertainty. I have specifically stated that I am NOT tunneling and that I am changing my style this game.
Please read before making ignorant statements.
I also want a comment on NU's case. I will not be impressed if you ignore it a la Foreman.
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On November 03 2016 04:50 Skynx wrote: None of what happened so far is AI guys please...
Then do something that will make AI posts happen.
What is the point of sitting around and complaining that people are making early reads exactly?
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On November 03 2016 04:54 Skynx wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 04:53 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 04:50 Skynx wrote: None of what happened so far is AI guys please... Then do something that will make AI posts happen. What is the point of sitting around and complaining that people are making early reads exactly? What is the point of spamming bunch of stuff that doesn't have anything to do with anything other than increasing postcount for people that are not here yet?
To generate conversation so that the not-yet-here people have something constructive to add, of course.
What is your strategy to find scum if we're doing a poor job of it?
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As a side note, I was supposed to be posting LESS this game. Well fuck that.
As always, most of the other players are lazy arseholes so I guess it's my job to carry the town discussion yet again and get shanked N1.
Boring.
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On November 03 2016 04:58 Skynx wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 04:56 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 04:54 Skynx wrote:On November 03 2016 04:53 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 04:50 Skynx wrote: None of what happened so far is AI guys please... Then do something that will make AI posts happen. What is the point of sitting around and complaining that people are making early reads exactly? What is the point of spamming bunch of stuff that doesn't have anything to do with anything other than increasing postcount for people that are not here yet? To generate conversation so that the not-yet-here people have something constructive to add, of course. What is your strategy to find scum if we're doing a poor job of it? Add something constructive when i find opportunity to do so. Like I'm doing now, stopping you guys go overboard with surjective NAI stuff cuz it really means absolutely nothing what you guys accuse each other for in past few pages
Oh wonderful, that means that you can tell us how my case on NU doesn't show scum-indicative behaviour
Do you have any reads at all? I'm skeptical that you have no initial impressions at all.
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On November 03 2016 04:59 Foreman wrote: Calix, talk to me about marghell.
What do you make of his sheeping and buddying?
How is he sheeping? He said he agreed with my case with some additional comments.
I was initially paranoid that he was trying to pocket me. That was my fear until he made the "lol I don't want to think like Calix" comment. That seems too weird to be a buddying attempt to me.
Why would mahrgell be scum if I am town exactly?
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Actually that post where he's like "pls don't mind-meld with me" was pretty weird because we didn't actually have the same thought process on the posts. (I didn't get that impression anyway)
But that's the only post that I found weird from mahrgell so I'm fine with him for now.
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On November 03 2016 05:05 Skynx wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 05:00 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 04:58 Skynx wrote:On November 03 2016 04:56 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 04:54 Skynx wrote:On November 03 2016 04:53 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 04:50 Skynx wrote: None of what happened so far is AI guys please... Then do something that will make AI posts happen. What is the point of sitting around and complaining that people are making early reads exactly? What is the point of spamming bunch of stuff that doesn't have anything to do with anything other than increasing postcount for people that are not here yet? To generate conversation so that the not-yet-here people have something constructive to add, of course. What is your strategy to find scum if we're doing a poor job of it? Add something constructive when i find opportunity to do so. Like I'm doing now, stopping you guys go overboard with surjective NAI stuff cuz it really means absolutely nothing what you guys accuse each other for in past few pages Oh wonderful, that means that you can tell us how my case on NU doesn't show scum-indicative behaviour Do you have any reads at all? I'm skeptical that you have no initial impressions at all. Here is what happened; Calix sr Exo (gif stuff) Exo sr Calix (doesn't like his push) Everyone sr Everyone (because all pushes are very surjective and doesn't mean anything and everyone is aware of that so might aswell sr the others) What you are asking right now makes sense in that regard as me suggesting you guys pushing NAI stuff on eachother means I should also sr you guys but its just not right and this is all really nothing productive in the end.
Fact-check. I never stated a scum-read on ExO.
"all pushes are very subjective" - It's Day 1. Of course they are going to be 'subjective'. In fact, almost every single push in the history of mafia is 'subjective'. That doesn't mean you just do nothing since town has to be proactive to gain information, etc etc. This is all very obvious stuff so I won't drone on.
With that in mind, your approach is very hard to understand to me.
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On November 03 2016 05:11 Foreman wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 05:05 Skynx wrote:On November 03 2016 05:00 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 04:58 Skynx wrote:On November 03 2016 04:56 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 04:54 Skynx wrote:On November 03 2016 04:53 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 04:50 Skynx wrote: None of what happened so far is AI guys please... Then do something that will make AI posts happen. What is the point of sitting around and complaining that people are making early reads exactly? What is the point of spamming bunch of stuff that doesn't have anything to do with anything other than increasing postcount for people that are not here yet? To generate conversation so that the not-yet-here people have something constructive to add, of course. What is your strategy to find scum if we're doing a poor job of it? Add something constructive when i find opportunity to do so. Like I'm doing now, stopping you guys go overboard with surjective NAI stuff cuz it really means absolutely nothing what you guys accuse each other for in past few pages Oh wonderful, that means that you can tell us how my case on NU doesn't show scum-indicative behaviour Do you have any reads at all? I'm skeptical that you have no initial impressions at all. Here is what happened; Calix sr Exo (gif stuff) Exo sr Calix (doesn't like his push) Everyone sr Everyone (because all pushes are very surjective and doesn't mean anything and everyone is aware of that so might aswell sr the others) What you are asking right now makes sense in that regard as me suggesting you guys pushing NAI stuff on eachother means I should also sr you guys but its just not right and this is all really nothing productive in the end. Here is what happened: Skynx entered thread Skynx complained about unproductive content Skynx provided unproductive content What you are doing right now is worse than anything you've complained about, because you should be of the mindset that providing even more unproductive content would only make our situation worse, given your remarks.
Last paragraph is the first thing that Foreman's posted that I really like.
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Stating that someone's illogical =/= scum-read, Skynx dear.
As for mahrgell, if you're using mind melds to inform a read then that's fine. But from my point of view, I don't get the same impression when it's vice versa. I would have to see you post things first that I agreed with before I would make that read. It's mostly been you agreeing with me if I recall correctly so I can see where you're coming from in terms of perspective.
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On November 03 2016 05:24 Foreman wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 05:14 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 05:11 Foreman wrote:On November 03 2016 05:05 Skynx wrote:On November 03 2016 05:00 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 04:58 Skynx wrote:On November 03 2016 04:56 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 04:54 Skynx wrote:On November 03 2016 04:53 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 04:50 Skynx wrote: None of what happened so far is AI guys please... Then do something that will make AI posts happen. What is the point of sitting around and complaining that people are making early reads exactly? What is the point of spamming bunch of stuff that doesn't have anything to do with anything other than increasing postcount for people that are not here yet? To generate conversation so that the not-yet-here people have something constructive to add, of course. What is your strategy to find scum if we're doing a poor job of it? Add something constructive when i find opportunity to do so. Like I'm doing now, stopping you guys go overboard with surjective NAI stuff cuz it really means absolutely nothing what you guys accuse each other for in past few pages Oh wonderful, that means that you can tell us how my case on NU doesn't show scum-indicative behaviour Do you have any reads at all? I'm skeptical that you have no initial impressions at all. Here is what happened; Calix sr Exo (gif stuff) Exo sr Calix (doesn't like his push) Everyone sr Everyone (because all pushes are very surjective and doesn't mean anything and everyone is aware of that so might aswell sr the others) What you are asking right now makes sense in that regard as me suggesting you guys pushing NAI stuff on eachother means I should also sr you guys but its just not right and this is all really nothing productive in the end. Here is what happened: Skynx entered thread Skynx complained about unproductive content Skynx provided unproductive content What you are doing right now is worse than anything you've complained about, because you should be of the mindset that providing even more unproductive content would only make our situation worse, given your remarks. Last paragraph is the first thing that Foreman's posted that I really like. This begs the question... What do you object to in the preceding paragraph?
Nothing. It's a summary of Skynx's behaviour which anyone can do. Nothing to note there.
I used the intensifier 'really' to make it clear that I liked the concluding paragraph in particular.
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On November 03 2016 05:29 Foreman wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 05:27 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 05:24 Foreman wrote:On November 03 2016 05:14 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 05:11 Foreman wrote:On November 03 2016 05:05 Skynx wrote:On November 03 2016 05:00 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 04:58 Skynx wrote:On November 03 2016 04:56 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 04:54 Skynx wrote: [quote] What is the point of spamming bunch of stuff that doesn't have anything to do with anything other than increasing postcount for people that are not here yet? To generate conversation so that the not-yet-here people have something constructive to add, of course. What is your strategy to find scum if we're doing a poor job of it? Add something constructive when i find opportunity to do so. Like I'm doing now, stopping you guys go overboard with surjective NAI stuff cuz it really means absolutely nothing what you guys accuse each other for in past few pages Oh wonderful, that means that you can tell us how my case on NU doesn't show scum-indicative behaviour Do you have any reads at all? I'm skeptical that you have no initial impressions at all. Here is what happened; Calix sr Exo (gif stuff) Exo sr Calix (doesn't like his push) Everyone sr Everyone (because all pushes are very surjective and doesn't mean anything and everyone is aware of that so might aswell sr the others) What you are asking right now makes sense in that regard as me suggesting you guys pushing NAI stuff on eachother means I should also sr you guys but its just not right and this is all really nothing productive in the end. Here is what happened: Skynx entered thread Skynx complained about unproductive content Skynx provided unproductive content What you are doing right now is worse than anything you've complained about, because you should be of the mindset that providing even more unproductive content would only make our situation worse, given your remarks. Last paragraph is the first thing that Foreman's posted that I really like. This begs the question... What do you object to in the preceding paragraph? Nothing. It's a summary of Skynx's behaviour which anyone can do. Nothing to note there. I used the intensifier 'really' to make it clear that I liked the concluding paragraph in particular. I was just curious because the first set up the second, but your comment looked like you had a completely different take on the first which looked weird to me.
Wonderful. Isn't it great to resolve things instead of stone-walling me because of a scum-read?
Now that we're being more civil, care to:
A) Reiterate those points against me which you think I ignored?
B) Actually consider my NU case?
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On November 03 2016 05:38 Foreman wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 03:29 Foreman wrote: 1) You are going after an easy target for not doing what they said they'd do (after they got some friction about it when they announced it, iirc?) And since you never really addressed the following: Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 03:30 Foreman wrote:On November 03 2016 03:21 Calix wrote: And as a side note, how is being tryhard a scum tell? Because you're looking for an excuse to accuse somebody of being scum where no scum motive is present. Where is the scum motive in waffling over whether to post gifs or not? Show me how doing that helps scum or admit your case was ridiculous and maybe can talk.
It wasn't a case though. I never said there was scum motivation. I have stated this on multiple occasions so people need to actually read my posts. I'm not repeating myself again.
All I did was ask "yo why did you change your posting style from X pre-game posting style that you said you were doing?". I think this is a perfectly reasonable question since he...changed his posting style AFTER receiving his role so thus it had a chance of yielding AI information.
He didn't waffle over it and I didn't say it was scummy. I said it was illogical which isn't the same thing as scum-motivated. It means that I don't get why he did it. (I still don't but the actual reasoning is completely irrelevant so I don't want ExO to answer now)
You also have to take into account that I considered his behaviour anti-town. I don't see the problem with questioning a player in that category within the first few posts. It's the best time to clear up such matters, no?
I hope that clears up everything.
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On November 03 2016 05:48 Foreman wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 05:44 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 05:38 Foreman wrote:On November 03 2016 03:29 Foreman wrote: 1) You are going after an easy target for not doing what they said they'd do (after they got some friction about it when they announced it, iirc?) And since you never really addressed the following: On November 03 2016 03:30 Foreman wrote:On November 03 2016 03:21 Calix wrote: And as a side note, how is being tryhard a scum tell? Because you're looking for an excuse to accuse somebody of being scum where no scum motive is present. Where is the scum motive in waffling over whether to post gifs or not? Show me how doing that helps scum or admit your case was ridiculous and maybe can talk. It wasn't a case though. I never said there was scum motivation. I have stated this on multiple occasions so people need to actually read my posts. I'm not repeating myself again.All I did was ask "yo why did you change your posting style from X pre-game posting style that you said you were doing?". I think this is a perfectly reasonable question since he...changed his posting style AFTER receiving his role so thus it had a chance of yielding AI information. He didn't waffle over it and I didn't say it was scummy. I said it was illogical which isn't the same thing as scum-motivated. It means that I don't get why he did it. (I still don't but the actual reasoning is completely irrelevant so I don't want ExO to answer now) You also have to take into account that I considered his behaviour anti-town. I don't see the problem with questioning a player in that category within the first few posts. It's the best time to clear up such matters, no? I hope that clears up everything. Well it looked stinted as hell, like you were setting up for an easy target. Where's this damning evidence against NU?
In his filter...which you could have looked at irregardless of your read on me.
Alternatively, it's in my filter. You can skip over Page 1 of my filter because it's pre-game stuff.
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On November 03 2016 05:54 Foreman wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 05:49 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 05:48 Foreman wrote:On November 03 2016 05:44 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 05:38 Foreman wrote:On November 03 2016 03:29 Foreman wrote: 1) You are going after an easy target for not doing what they said they'd do (after they got some friction about it when they announced it, iirc?) And since you never really addressed the following: On November 03 2016 03:30 Foreman wrote:On November 03 2016 03:21 Calix wrote: And as a side note, how is being tryhard a scum tell? Because you're looking for an excuse to accuse somebody of being scum where no scum motive is present. Where is the scum motive in waffling over whether to post gifs or not? Show me how doing that helps scum or admit your case was ridiculous and maybe can talk. It wasn't a case though. I never said there was scum motivation. I have stated this on multiple occasions so people need to actually read my posts. I'm not repeating myself again.All I did was ask "yo why did you change your posting style from X pre-game posting style that you said you were doing?". I think this is a perfectly reasonable question since he...changed his posting style AFTER receiving his role so thus it had a chance of yielding AI information. He didn't waffle over it and I didn't say it was scummy. I said it was illogical which isn't the same thing as scum-motivated. It means that I don't get why he did it. (I still don't but the actual reasoning is completely irrelevant so I don't want ExO to answer now) You also have to take into account that I considered his behaviour anti-town. I don't see the problem with questioning a player in that category within the first few posts. It's the best time to clear up such matters, no? I hope that clears up everything. Well it looked stinted as hell, like you were setting up for an easy target. Where's this damning evidence against NU? In his filter...which you could have looked at irregardless of your read on me. Alternatively, it's in my filter. You can skip over Page 1 of my filter because it's pre-game stuff. I don't share your interpretation of his post. "I said that" looks to me as if he's saying "no, I'm saying he's scummy"to what you simply referred to as illogical, as in he seems to equivocate logical fallacy with scumminess. If I'm wrong, so be it... but I don't think I am.
Are you referring to ExO or NU? I am assuming the former here.
Your post is confusing and I don't understand how you reached...whatever it is that you concluded.
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On November 03 2016 05:57 Foreman wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 05:56 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 05:54 Foreman wrote:On November 03 2016 05:49 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 05:48 Foreman wrote:On November 03 2016 05:44 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 05:38 Foreman wrote:On November 03 2016 03:29 Foreman wrote: 1) You are going after an easy target for not doing what they said they'd do (after they got some friction about it when they announced it, iirc?) And since you never really addressed the following: On November 03 2016 03:30 Foreman wrote:On November 03 2016 03:21 Calix wrote: And as a side note, how is being tryhard a scum tell? Because you're looking for an excuse to accuse somebody of being scum where no scum motive is present. Where is the scum motive in waffling over whether to post gifs or not? Show me how doing that helps scum or admit your case was ridiculous and maybe can talk. It wasn't a case though. I never said there was scum motivation. I have stated this on multiple occasions so people need to actually read my posts. I'm not repeating myself again.All I did was ask "yo why did you change your posting style from X pre-game posting style that you said you were doing?". I think this is a perfectly reasonable question since he...changed his posting style AFTER receiving his role so thus it had a chance of yielding AI information. He didn't waffle over it and I didn't say it was scummy. I said it was illogical which isn't the same thing as scum-motivated. It means that I don't get why he did it. (I still don't but the actual reasoning is completely irrelevant so I don't want ExO to answer now) You also have to take into account that I considered his behaviour anti-town. I don't see the problem with questioning a player in that category within the first few posts. It's the best time to clear up such matters, no? I hope that clears up everything. Well it looked stinted as hell, like you were setting up for an easy target. Where's this damning evidence against NU? In his filter...which you could have looked at irregardless of your read on me. Alternatively, it's in my filter. You can skip over Page 1 of my filter because it's pre-game stuff. I don't share your interpretation of his post. "I said that" looks to me as if he's saying "no, I'm saying he's scummy"to what you simply referred to as illogical, as in he seems to equivocate logical fallacy with scumminess. If I'm wrong, so be it... but I don't think I am. Are you referring to ExO or NU? I am assuming the former here. Your post is confusing and I don't understand how you reached...whatever it is that you concluded. I'm talking about NU.
Then I'm even more confused. Clarification would be welcomed.
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On November 03 2016 06:01 Foreman wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 03:25 NeverUnlucky wrote:On November 03 2016 03:23 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 03:21 NeverUnlucky wrote: Haiii guises, let us keep this atmosphere positive!
I agree with Mr. Foreman and Mr. ExO that Calix's push is not her greatest, and I also agree with Calix that ExO's defensive response looks scummy!
Foreman, may I ask you where you are coming from in terms of community? c: I'm not pushing ExO. That's being extremely generous. I never claimed that ExO was scummy, just illogical. I didn't even call him defensive. Where did you get that from? I said that. There
My 'illogical' comment was referring to ExO though, not NU.
But NU said "I agree with Calix that ExO's defensiveness is scummy" and when I said "I didn't say that, where did you get that idea from?" he then changes and says "well I said that"
Which makes no sense. How do you even get that mixed up?
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On November 03 2016 06:02 NeverUnlucky wrote:Oh, god! Guys, could you at least wait for me to be here so you don't make factually incorrect claims about my meta? :/ Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 04:01 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 03:54 mahrgell wrote:On November 03 2016 03:30 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 03:29 NeverUnlucky wrote:On November 03 2016 03:26 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 03:25 NeverUnlucky wrote:On November 03 2016 03:23 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 03:21 NeverUnlucky wrote: Haiii guises, let us keep this atmosphere positive!
I agree with Mr. Foreman and Mr. ExO that Calix's push is not her greatest, and I also agree with Calix that ExO's defensive response looks scummy!
Foreman, may I ask you where you are coming from in terms of community? c: I'm not pushing ExO. That's being extremely generous. I never claimed that ExO was scummy, just illogical. I didn't even call him defensive. Where did you get that from? I said that. Your quote says "I agree WITH CALIX" which implies that I said "ExO being defensive is scummy" at some point. Clarify this now, please. I actually don't agree with the points you've made. ExO's defensive, that's as much as one can say on his subject. Offski. I for one do not like NU. His tone seems weird, he makes statements that are factually inaccurate/ putting words into my mouth and then retracts them when called out on them. I don't understand why. Given that he's just disappeared, I'll wait for a response before concluding anything for sure but he's giving me bad vibes at the moment. Well 1) I share NU's interpretation of what happened. 2) I appreciate his call for civil communication, from what I read in Cruisetrip he could have also easily heated up the fire without it looking worse than his usual play. 3) But I also agree with you, that it is weird for him to "buddy" you, by pretending you were sharing his self made points. I don't think there is much reason for him to try to appease you. With regards to Point 2, he is much tamer when he is scum. I'm not claiming that this is a 100% guaranteed tell (he is also busy and this has led to him being more subdued in the past) but it's in the back of my mind. Well in my opinion, this is how it went down: - He asks why ExO is being overly defensive. - I call ExO anti-town. - He misrepresented my positions by claiming that he agreed that I was a) scum-reading ExO and b) scum-reading ExO due to being overly defensive. - I ask him where he interpreted this from as those are not my positions. - He denies claiming this. - I tell him that he literally said in his quote "I agree with Calix" This is where the scummy part is. He immediately backtracks from that position by saying "well I don't agree" and leaves it at that. That's scummy because this progression could be NU trying to plant ideas inside of my head without actually taking responsibility for having the idea. This is a compelling explanation because the ExO/ Calix discussion was still going on at this time. Thus, it's possible that he was trying to manipulate me into agreeing that ExO's behaviour is scummy. It's also possible because I am well-known for getting myself into tunnels so I am a viable target. So yeah, discuss and all that. It is wrong that I am tamer as scum. Calix, you've read my latest scum game, you would know that I throw shade and throw shade as scum. I power-wolf. Here, I am trying to be civil and have everyone participate. Last game, in the obs QT, Shapelog mentioned 3-4 times that I was a nuisance to the thread atmosphere. It's clear that this is what team NU is trying to fix here. I could shitpost just like last game and call everyone bad, but that wouldn't fix the problem, right? I rephrased what I had meant two posts ago. What you depicted in this quote is not what I meant/what happened. How is it scummy though? Like, just last game you were calling me scum for claiming to be mod-confirmable, then when HF questioned you, you backtracked. It's actually pro-town. The bolded part stuns me. I'm trying my best not to bash you on it. Same for this whole post you just made on me. I said that I did not like your push, how did you make this leap to think that I was being deceptive into fueling your tunnel?
You are trying to claim that a performance in a turbo game is representative of longer-term games. A SINGLE turbo game at that. Given that you admitted yourself that they aren't the same prior to this game, this statement makes no sense for you to make now. You do NOT have a meta of 'power wolfing'. 100% bullshit.
Second paragraph has been noted. Why didn't you say that in the pre-game though?
False equivalence. I made a claim with my thought process explained, was given information that contradicted it and realised my claim was void. You specifically noted that I 'agreed' with you and have not told us why you thought that to begin with.
You're refraining from bashing me. Apparently you're refraining from countering the accusation properly as well.
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On November 03 2016 06:08 Foreman wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 06:05 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 06:01 Foreman wrote:On November 03 2016 03:25 NeverUnlucky wrote:On November 03 2016 03:23 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 03:21 NeverUnlucky wrote: Haiii guises, let us keep this atmosphere positive!
I agree with Mr. Foreman and Mr. ExO that Calix's push is not her greatest, and I also agree with Calix that ExO's defensive response looks scummy!
Foreman, may I ask you where you are coming from in terms of community? c: I'm not pushing ExO. That's being extremely generous. I never claimed that ExO was scummy, just illogical. I didn't even call him defensive. Where did you get that from? I said that. There My 'illogical' comment was referring to ExO though, not NU. But NU said "I agree with Calix that ExO's defensiveness is scummy" and when I said "I didn't say that, where did you get that idea from?" he then changes and says "well I said that" Which makes no sense. How do you even get that mixed up? As I already said, NU appears to me to equivocate logical fallacy with scumminess. Reread his post with the mindset of using one as a synonym for the other and his mindset is more clear, even if I do disagree with the principle.
From what I can tell, he's saying that 'it was a mistake' (aka, it should be dismissed)
(I'm considering that part of his defense NAI)
Call me stupid but I don't see what his liking for using logical fallacies has to do with this point.
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In any case, I'd like some reads from NU after he's finished responding to my post.
Not much point in starting a thread war as it stands.
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On November 03 2016 06:20 NeverUnlucky wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 04:40 Calix wrote: Man, having everyone be a bunch of slow-pokes with typing is making me bored. I'm just going to vote now.
##vote NeverUnlucky I would expect literature students to be better readers. Guess not.
Using personal information to insult others is classless.
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On November 03 2016 06:28 Foreman wrote: As a side note, it's adorable how people call me anti-town like that should somehow effect the way I play.
Anti-town is how I roll. Not by design, just is what it is.
How much experience do you have with mafia?
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On November 03 2016 06:30 Foreman wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 06:29 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 06:28 Foreman wrote: As a side note, it's adorable how people call me anti-town like that should somehow effect the way I play.
Anti-town is how I roll. Not by design, just is what it is. How much experience do you have with mafia? Not overly much, just a few years.
'just a few years'
I haven't even played for one so that's impressive to me.
I asked because I thought you said "I'm new" and then you did a page-top which is something I've only seen MS players do.
But then I double-checked and realised you said "new to the site"
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On November 03 2016 06:38 NeverUnlucky wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 06:09 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 06:02 NeverUnlucky wrote:Oh, god! Guys, could you at least wait for me to be here so you don't make factually incorrect claims about my meta? :/ On November 03 2016 04:01 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 03:54 mahrgell wrote:On November 03 2016 03:30 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 03:29 NeverUnlucky wrote:On November 03 2016 03:26 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 03:25 NeverUnlucky wrote:On November 03 2016 03:23 Calix wrote: [quote]
I'm not pushing ExO. That's being extremely generous.
I never claimed that ExO was scummy, just illogical. I didn't even call him defensive. Where did you get that from? I said that. Your quote says "I agree WITH CALIX" which implies that I said "ExO being defensive is scummy" at some point. Clarify this now, please. I actually don't agree with the points you've made. ExO's defensive, that's as much as one can say on his subject. Offski. I for one do not like NU. His tone seems weird, he makes statements that are factually inaccurate/ putting words into my mouth and then retracts them when called out on them. I don't understand why. Given that he's just disappeared, I'll wait for a response before concluding anything for sure but he's giving me bad vibes at the moment. Well 1) I share NU's interpretation of what happened. 2) I appreciate his call for civil communication, from what I read in Cruisetrip he could have also easily heated up the fire without it looking worse than his usual play. 3) But I also agree with you, that it is weird for him to "buddy" you, by pretending you were sharing his self made points. I don't think there is much reason for him to try to appease you. With regards to Point 2, he is much tamer when he is scum. I'm not claiming that this is a 100% guaranteed tell (he is also busy and this has led to him being more subdued in the past) but it's in the back of my mind. Well in my opinion, this is how it went down: - He asks why ExO is being overly defensive. - I call ExO anti-town. - He misrepresented my positions by claiming that he agreed that I was a) scum-reading ExO and b) scum-reading ExO due to being overly defensive. - I ask him where he interpreted this from as those are not my positions. - He denies claiming this. - I tell him that he literally said in his quote "I agree with Calix" This is where the scummy part is. He immediately backtracks from that position by saying "well I don't agree" and leaves it at that. That's scummy because this progression could be NU trying to plant ideas inside of my head without actually taking responsibility for having the idea. This is a compelling explanation because the ExO/ Calix discussion was still going on at this time. Thus, it's possible that he was trying to manipulate me into agreeing that ExO's behaviour is scummy. It's also possible because I am well-known for getting myself into tunnels so I am a viable target. So yeah, discuss and all that. It is wrong that I am tamer as scum. Calix, you've read my latest scum game, you would know that I throw shade and throw shade as scum. I power-wolf. Here, I am trying to be civil and have everyone participate. Last game, in the obs QT, Shapelog mentioned 3-4 times that I was a nuisance to the thread atmosphere. It's clear that this is what team NU is trying to fix here. I could shitpost just like last game and call everyone bad, but that wouldn't fix the problem, right? I rephrased what I had meant two posts ago. What you depicted in this quote is not what I meant/what happened. How is it scummy though? Like, just last game you were calling me scum for claiming to be mod-confirmable, then when HF questioned you, you backtracked. It's actually pro-town. The bolded part stuns me. I'm trying my best not to bash you on it. Same for this whole post you just made on me. I said that I did not like your push, how did you make this leap to think that I was being deceptive into fueling your tunnel? You are trying to claim that a performance in a turbo game is representative of longer-term games. A SINGLE turbo game at that. Given that you admitted yourself that they aren't the same prior to this game, this statement makes no sense for you to make now. You do NOT have a meta of 'power wolfing'. 100% bullshit. Second paragraph has been noted. Why didn't you say that in the pre-game though? False equivalence. I made a claim with my thought process explained, was given information that contradicted it and realised my claim was void. You specifically noted that I 'agreed' with you and have not told us why you thought that to begin with. You're refraining from bashing me. Apparently you're refraining from countering the accusation properly as well. If I pulled off a 1v7 as mafia while Power Wolfing, why the FUCK would I change my scum meta? There's no bullshit in that claim whatsoever. If I were to roll scum, it was in my interest to keep this window of shitting up the thread open, and for other reasons that cannot be discussed here. I have explained that post already. If only there was a valid accusation to counter.
My case is pretty good since your response to that encounter wasn't to just say "oh it was a mistake, sorry" but to backtrack and only dismissed it later.
First paragraph is some empty bragging rhetoric. NAI for someone of your character.
Yes, one of my points was that you were trying to encourage me to scum-read ExO so that I would continue arguing with him. Thanks for confirming that you agree with my logic there.
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On November 03 2016 06:41 NeverUnlucky wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 06:12 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 06:08 Foreman wrote:On November 03 2016 06:05 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 06:01 Foreman wrote:On November 03 2016 03:25 NeverUnlucky wrote:On November 03 2016 03:23 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 03:21 NeverUnlucky wrote: Haiii guises, let us keep this atmosphere positive!
I agree with Mr. Foreman and Mr. ExO that Calix's push is not her greatest, and I also agree with Calix that ExO's defensive response looks scummy!
Foreman, may I ask you where you are coming from in terms of community? c: I'm not pushing ExO. That's being extremely generous. I never claimed that ExO was scummy, just illogical. I didn't even call him defensive. Where did you get that from? I said that. There My 'illogical' comment was referring to ExO though, not NU. But NU said "I agree with Calix that ExO's defensiveness is scummy" and when I said "I didn't say that, where did you get that idea from?" he then changes and says "well I said that" Which makes no sense. How do you even get that mixed up? As I already said, NU appears to me to equivocate logical fallacy with scumminess. Reread his post with the mindset of using one as a synonym for the other and his mindset is more clear, even if I do disagree with the principle. From what I can tell, he's saying that 'it was a mistake' (aka, it should be dismissed) (I'm considering that part of his defense NAI) Call me stupid but I don't see what his liking for using logical fallacies has to do with this point. You're misrepresenting me so much this game. I never said or inferred that this point should be dismissed.
If something is a mistake then that is implicitly stating that nobody can read much more into it because you are claiming that it is a simple error with word usage. Either you're telling the truth or lying and delving into that part of the case is not going to yield fruitful answers. No misrepresentations in sight.
Claiming that it's a mistake is NAI so this line of thought is unproductive.
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On November 03 2016 06:42 NeverUnlucky wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 06:33 Foreman wrote:On November 03 2016 06:30 NeverUnlucky wrote:
I dislike in this order Skynx, ExO, Foreman, Calix, you.
And I appreciated darthfoley's one post.
That's about how my read look like. How do you dislike mag**** less than Calix when mag**** has been an echo chamber of Calix? Mahrgell is willing to take step back from his pushes while Calix is seemingly trying to get me stuck in the past and not backing off, instead worsening her already god awful push.
Why is it town-indicative in Cruise Mafia for me to tunnel you based on faulty reasoning, but makes me 'seemingly trying to get [you] stuck in the past' when I make a milder push here?
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On November 03 2016 06:51 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 06:38 Foreman wrote:On November 03 2016 06:37 Tictock wrote:On November 03 2016 04:57 Foreman wrote: If Calix is town, there's a fair chance that marghell is scum. What prompted this? Filter me. That's why I want reads and original content from them. Yea I did that before posting, I'm a bit confused why you went from being uber-tunneled on Calix to suddenly considering her as town. I'll be honest, I was thinking you were lock scum up till this post but it gave me pause because I consider thinking about people from both alignments is a good town trait. However your posts seem more like you are just shifting focus away from Calix to another target but your read really hasn't changed. Right now I'd stick with my initial read that you are scum and attribute this shift to being told in your QT that you are tunneling too much.
What made you think Foreman was 'lock scum' in the first place?
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On November 03 2016 06:49 mahrgell wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 06:17 Foreman wrote: I'd like to see some reads with original content from mahrgell. How many you need? You obviously ignored all my posts about yourself. But let's summarize and update: Looking at your entire post history, I try to figure out how you managed to come to the conclusion you have. If you have no information about the game, you should have seen the same as me. And yet somehow you managed to take another turn at pretty much every point in the game. So far all your actions have been about the opposite of what I would expect from someone who saw the same as I did, with the same information I have. (none). 1) you see the Calix vs Exo_ interaction and for weird reasons tunnel down on Calix. Was she(it seems like Calix is a she?) pushing Exo? I don't think so. If she was, I agree it was pointless, but well... Day1. You were sure she was pushing Exo. Okay... Happy tunneling. 2) so you chase after people for having the antitown-proscum conversation, just to push that conversation further. If it was in your interest to remove this discussion from the thread to steer the game in a more town friendly direction, you should probably not try to last word in that conversation. 3) Next Calix asks you about NU. Instead of answering, you refuse to answer at all, because you consider Calix scum. I believe enough people pointed out at this point that this is pretty anti-town. Considering you being worried about the town atmosphere before, this is rather ironic. 4) I ask you about NU too. You dismiss it as parroting. Besides the fact that I consider it not parroting, but admit, that my critique on NU was very similar to Calix (earlier, not her latest) posts, let's for a moment assume it was parroting. At this point you claimed to scumlean Calix, but didn't say anything about me. If I were a townie, and see someone else parrot a person I consider scum... I for sure as hell would do my best to get this person to stop sheeping a scummie. Either you turn on me right away, or you try to get me away from her. Instead you just dismissed me. If I was sheeping Calix and you considered her scum, you willingly gave her an additional vote. 5) Your general contribution to this thread has never been in the interest of improving the atmosphere. In none of the mentioned points have you ever tried for a constructive conversation. And your latest responses to NU weren't better either. Not sure if it was in this thread or in the other one, but when you asked about the TL meta someone (NU?) answered: "Be wrong and a dick about it" This is exactly what I see you doing here. I guess you earned it ##Vote Foreman
I was tempted to call OMGUS on this but given that Foreman posted his vote four minutes before mahrgell, I don't think it's valid as I doubt he can type this much in that space of time.
1. Not sure how this is AI.
2. Claim that Foreman is acting in an anti-town fashion with the discussion on anti-town vs pro-scum.
3. Claim that Foreman is acting in an anti-town fashion by refusing to consider the case of one of his stated scum-reads. Last sentence is decent.
4. Also not a bad point.
5. I don't consider being an arsehole AI.
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On November 03 2016 06:55 Foreman wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 06:49 mahrgell wrote:On November 03 2016 06:17 Foreman wrote: I'd like to see some reads with original content from mahrgell. How many you need? You obviously ignored all my posts about yourself. But let's summarize and update: Looking at your entire post history, I try to figure out how you managed to come to the conclusion you have. If you have no information about the game, you should have seen the same as me. And yet somehow you managed to take another turn at pretty much every point in the game. So far all your actions have been about the opposite of what I would expect from someone who saw the same as I did, with the same information I have. (none). 1) you see the Calix vs Exo_ interaction and for weird reasons tunnel down on Calix. Was she(it seems like Calix is a she?) pushing Exo? I don't think so. If she was, I agree it was pointless, but well... Day1. You were sure she was pushing Exo. Okay... Happy tunneling. 2) so you chase after people for having the antitown-proscum conversation, just to push that conversation further. If it was in your interest to remove this discussion from the thread to steer the game in a more town friendly direction, you should probably not try to last word in that conversation. 3) Next Calix asks you about NU. Instead of answering, you refuse to answer at all, because you consider Calix scum. I believe enough people pointed out at this point that this is pretty anti-town. Considering you being worried about the town atmosphere before, this is rather ironic. 4) I ask you about NU too. You dismiss it as parroting. Besides the fact that I consider it not parroting, but admit, that my critique on NU was very similar to Calix (earlier, not her latest) posts, let's for a moment assume it was parroting. At this point you claimed to scumlean Calix, but didn't say anything about me. If I were a townie, and see someone else parrot a person I consider scum... I for sure as hell would do my best to get this person to stop sheeping a scummie. Either you turn on me right away, or you try to get me away from her. Instead you just dismissed me. If I was sheeping Calix and you considered her scum, you willingly gave her an additional vote. 5) Your general contribution to this thread has never been in the interest of improving the atmosphere. In none of the mentioned points have you ever tried for a constructive conversation. And your latest responses to NU weren't better either. Not sure if it was in this thread or in the other one, but when you asked about the TL meta someone (NU?) answered: "Be wrong and a dick about it" This is exactly what I see you doing here. I guess you earned it ##Vote Foreman Nice OMGUS brah. 1) So what? 2) I contributed to the discussion, I did not chase after anyone for participating in it. That's a mighty fine misrep. 3) So? 4) You're assuming I was hard-scumreading Calix. That's foolish. I was ignoring her push because she was ignoring mine. I was ignoring yours because you're an echo chamber. 5) Lol, that's actually reason not to vote me, clown. Feeling better about my vote.
With regards to #3, how do you explain this post?
On November 03 2016 04:23 Foreman wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 04:20 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 04:17 Foreman wrote:On November 03 2016 04:14 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 04:10 Foreman wrote:On November 03 2016 04:01 mahrgell wrote: @Foreman Now that you noticed your misread. Are you still going after Calix, or have you shifted your focus on NU? Would the argument you made for Calix also apply to NU? Or where do you see the difference there? The fact he isn't voting ExO does not make his push any less disingenuous. Knock knock, Calix is here, asking you to read my NU case like a good dear. Is my NU case also disingenuous? If so, how? Considering you've yet to acquit yourself for that shady ExO push, I'm not concerned about your NU push when he isn't even here to respond to it. Why do I need to 'acquit myself' for you to take my NU case seriously? You either agree with it or you don't. My 'credibility' has nothing to do with wherever you think I make valid points on NU. Poor reaction from you. Lol whatever dude.
I'm not wasting my time humoring scum, and right now that's what you are to me.If you want me to take you seriously, I suggest you take me seriously.
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On November 03 2016 06:57 NeverUnlucky wrote: ##Unvote ##Vote Calix
She cannot believe this strongly that I am scum because of that one post, she who claims I am an easy read for her.
Are you really doing this, NU?
You have the entirety of CM where I tunneled you on multiple occasions (causing a TvT) and you're trying to use that argument again? I am not even tunneling you this round so you are being extremely inconsistent with your logic.
Your 'argument' can be so easily disproved that I'm concluding that you're full of shit.
I'm even more confident in my vote.
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NU has become a full-on scum-read for me. He's using completely different reasoning in his response to me between different games.
That's not him 'changing his mind' - that is a major flip!
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On November 03 2016 07:02 Calix wrote: NU has become a full-on scum-read for me. He's using completely different reasoning in his response to me between different games.
That's not him 'changing his mind' - that is a major flip!
By this, I mean that I made a (poor) case against him in CM (last game) and although even I said that my case sucked, he still town-read me without doubt and defended me against HF when he said 'lol Calix you're attacking someone you think is an easy read'.
This round I do pretty much the same thing (with making a case) and his response is to scum-read me for it because 'no way are you this bad with voting for someone you used to claim was an easy read'
Vote NU.
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On November 03 2016 07:05 Tictock wrote: Calix and Marghal (or w/e) are my top town atm. Mostly everything they have done has been to push the game forward and have been looking at multiple people from multiple angles.
Skynx is a little shitter for trying to imply that this early game is NAI. This is prob the least jokey start of a game I have every seen. Kinda null on him despite his early posts seeming unlikely to come from scum imo.
I kinda think NU is town but I'm not really sure why, just feels natural and relaxed I guess. In the same vein I kinda liked Dark's one post too so they are both townleaning nulls.
Your reads are not complete shite.
I actually think ExO is town though, just tunneled. It's not a great read on my part but I felt like he was being genuine. Sure, his behaviour sucks and it's possible that he's hypersensitive scum lashing back but I just got that vibe. He did drop off after the initial push so I'd like his thoughts but as it stands, I lean-town read him.
I agree with your assessments of Skynx and Darth. I found nothing objectionable with the latter's post.
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On November 03 2016 07:04 Calix wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 07:02 Calix wrote: NU has become a full-on scum-read for me. He's using completely different reasoning in his response to me between different games.
That's not him 'changing his mind' - that is a major flip! By this, I mean that I made a (poor) case against him in CM (last game) and although even I said that my case sucked, he still town-read me without doubt and defended me against HF when he said 'lol Calix you're attacking someone you think is an easy read'. This round I do pretty much the same thing (with making a case) and his response is to scum-read me for it because 'no way are you this bad with voting for someone you used to claim was an easy read' Vote NU.
Underrated post.
To expand on my ExO read, I didn't feel like he was trying to paint me as scum, weirdly enough. Even though his post where he votes for me is complete crap, I still don't get that impression. I really need to figure out where exactly I started town-reading him again.
I'll have to reread tomorrow and see.
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On November 03 2016 07:14 NeverUnlucky wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 07:00 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 06:57 NeverUnlucky wrote: ##Unvote ##Vote Calix
She cannot believe this strongly that I am scum because of that one post, she who claims I am an easy read for her. Are you really doing this, NU? You have the entirety of CM where I tunneled you on multiple occasions (causing a TvT) and you're trying to use that argument again? I am not even tunneling you this round so you are being extremely inconsistent with your logic. Your 'argument' can be so easily disproved that I'm concluding that you're full of shit. I'm even more confident in my vote. You're voting me based on 1 post for which I debunked everything. Yes, in CM I KNEW you were town. You were obvious town. You're suggesting that this is a TvT again or that I am town?? I don't understand that point. Where am I being inconsistent? I am actually so mad at you for this whole SHITTY push. You're preventing me from playing my game by digging me a hole and making me mad. You fail to EVEN explain how this ONE post makes me scum. Can you not see that your 'case' is shit? You've spent 2 pages shitting up the thread by asking other to look at it and nobody but mahr agreed with it (And mahr isn't even voting me). Isn't that a giant "I AM TUNNELING YET AGAIN" flag? You have a coach, Jesus, use him.
ATE.
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On November 03 2016 07:19 NeverUnlucky wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 07:15 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 07:14 NeverUnlucky wrote:On November 03 2016 07:00 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 06:57 NeverUnlucky wrote: ##Unvote ##Vote Calix
She cannot believe this strongly that I am scum because of that one post, she who claims I am an easy read for her. Are you really doing this, NU? You have the entirety of CM where I tunneled you on multiple occasions (causing a TvT) and you're trying to use that argument again? I am not even tunneling you this round so you are being extremely inconsistent with your logic. Your 'argument' can be so easily disproved that I'm concluding that you're full of shit. I'm even more confident in my vote. You're voting me based on 1 post for which I debunked everything. Yes, in CM I KNEW you were town. You were obvious town. You're suggesting that this is a TvT again or that I am town?? I don't understand that point. Where am I being inconsistent? I am actually so mad at you for this whole SHITTY push. You're preventing me from playing my game by digging me a hole and making me mad. You fail to EVEN explain how this ONE post makes me scum. Can you not see that your 'case' is shit? You've spent 2 pages shitting up the thread by asking other to look at it and nobody but mahr agreed with it (And mahr isn't even voting me). Isn't that a giant "I AM TUNNELING YET AGAIN" flag? You have a coach, Jesus, use him. ATE. 0 response to a wall post. Nice, nice. What's ATE?
Appeal to Emotion.
Your push is contradicting your play and reasoning last game. End of discussion.
Continue shitting up the thread with your temper tantrums instead of doing anything productive like I told you to do. I'm sure that'll help your case.
Instead of whining, do anything else. Leave the thread if you're that much of a cry-baby.
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On November 03 2016 07:26 NeverUnlucky wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 07:23 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 07:19 NeverUnlucky wrote:On November 03 2016 07:15 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 07:14 NeverUnlucky wrote:On November 03 2016 07:00 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 06:57 NeverUnlucky wrote: ##Unvote ##Vote Calix
She cannot believe this strongly that I am scum because of that one post, she who claims I am an easy read for her. Are you really doing this, NU? You have the entirety of CM where I tunneled you on multiple occasions (causing a TvT) and you're trying to use that argument again? I am not even tunneling you this round so you are being extremely inconsistent with your logic. Your 'argument' can be so easily disproved that I'm concluding that you're full of shit. I'm even more confident in my vote. You're voting me based on 1 post for which I debunked everything. Yes, in CM I KNEW you were town. You were obvious town. You're suggesting that this is a TvT again or that I am town?? I don't understand that point. Where am I being inconsistent? I am actually so mad at you for this whole SHITTY push. You're preventing me from playing my game by digging me a hole and making me mad. You fail to EVEN explain how this ONE post makes me scum. Can you not see that your 'case' is shit? You've spent 2 pages shitting up the thread by asking other to look at it and nobody but mahr agreed with it (And mahr isn't even voting me). Isn't that a giant "I AM TUNNELING YET AGAIN" flag? You have a coach, Jesus, use him. ATE. 0 response to a wall post. Nice, nice. What's ATE? Appeal to Emotion. Your push is contradicting your play and reasoning last game. End of discussion. Continue shitting up the thread with your temper tantrums instead of doing anything productive like I told you to do. I'm sure that'll help your case. Instead of whining, do anything else. Leave the thread if you're that much of a cry-baby. So you're meta-reading me for not playing like last game. HIPOCRISY MUCH? I have 0 intent on contributing anything right now, and I don't think that'll change in the following days.
Policy lynch.
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I've found the problem with mahrgell's 'cases' (for lack of a better term)
He's extremely unfocused when he's making his points. It's hard to infer what his actual case is. He narrates their filters instead of making targeted points about why his target is scummy.
He also likes to waffle on and doubt himself.
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In fact, looking at mahrgells' case again, I'm having a hard time thinking that he actually scum-reads NU. Nothing he says is actually that scummy when casing him. He just sounds so unsure of himself that it demotivates me just to look at it.
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On November 03 2016 07:39 mahrgell wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 07:31 Calix wrote: I've found the problem with mahrgell's 'cases' (for lack of a better term)
He's extremely unfocused when he's making his points. It's hard to infer what his actual case is. He narrates their filters instead of making targeted points about why his target is scummy.
He also likes to waffle on and doubt himself. I told you earlier, that I prefer to play a more distanced style. Yes, I will usually explain possible outs too. From what I read in Cruise and Dota this seems to be unusual here, as everyone loves tunneling down and ignore everything that goes against their current opinion. No, I don't know the scumteam day 1. But I think I also made sufficiently clear that at this point, I have 2 clear wagons I would like to push, and in which priority. And if you see me changing my opinion, just ask me for my reasoning. Right now nothing Foreman has posted since I posted my case against him has swayed me the slightest. NU hasn't answered me yet and is only my secondary choice right now anyway. So if I change vote, one of 3 things must happen: a) they make a very convincing argument, but not seeing that now b) someone makes himself even more scummy, but this won't remove my doubts about them c) we are close to deadline and my priority choices are not happening and I have a preference in a wagon race. About making more targeted points/narrated filters: What you wish here? More quotes? If this helps you, I can do that. If you have any advice on improving my readability, I'm all ear and will try to implement it. I can't claim years of forum Mafia. IRL things are different. :D
I don't want more quotes. I think that you lack focus when casing your scum-reads so you should focus more on the quality of the few points you make > quantity, if that makes sense.
It's like the difference between making an analytical argument about one post over posting one-liners in response to every single post in someone's filter. You lean towards the latter in my opinion which makes it hard to relate to your thought process; it's easy to get lost.
Valid first paragraph. It's a viable strategy to consider multiple wagons.
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Which one is it? Am I '100% scum' who 'would never fuck up with making a read on someone 'easy to read'' or am I someone you 'actually think is town'?
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On November 03 2016 07:49 NeverUnlucky wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 03:36 ExO_ wrote:On November 03 2016 03:35 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 03:29 ExO_ wrote: Also to clarify why I'm claiming my VT role right now:
I'm getting it out the open right now. I think in a game this size trying to fake claim to get scum to target me would be a waste of time. So I'm letting everyone know now I don't have any abilities I cannot do anything at night and can only vote. You can choose to either believe me or not, but I'm telling the truth This is another example of anti-town behaviour which I do not agree with. That is NOT the same as pro-scum. Allow me to clear that one up. Some people seem to be misinterpreting my stance on ExO as "scum-lean" when it's not. You cannot claim I'm being anti-town and then back away from it saying I'm not being pro scum anti-town=pro scum And how is this anti-town behavior anyway? You're 100% scum and you messed up already. ez game This.
On November 03 2016 07:53 NeverUnlucky wrote: I think you're town. I was quoting a bad ExO post aka I dislike that he's so quick to call you 100% scum.
Somehow I don't believe you. How is going "this" the same as saying "I dislike that he calls Calix 100% scum"? Oh wait.
"This" is the same thing as "+1"
Furthermore, you are still voting for me. Correct me if I'm wrong here but given your numerous contradictions, I doubt I am.
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On November 03 2016 07:59 NeverUnlucky wrote: You interpreting my posts differently makes me contradict myself. haHAA.
Here, do this little exercise for me: Point out 2 contradictions I've made this game. Apparently I have made numerous, it should not be too hard.
Yes, I am still voting you despite town-reading you. Deal with it.
How does saying "this" translate to "I disagree with this post" in any context?
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I've never seen you - or anyone else - use it in that context before. Provide evidence that you have and I'll go away.
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On November 03 2016 08:04 NeverUnlucky wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 08:03 Calix wrote: I've never seen you - or anyone else - use it in that context before. Provide evidence that you have and I'll go away. I never have used it before in any context.
I'm sure I could find evidence of you contradicting this, but it's not worth the effort.
I'm going to end this discussion for now so that something else can happen.
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Filter-diving time.
Skynx is weird. He complains but offers no real solutions. He calls the pushes subjective (illogical considering that this is a mafia game) but has nothing of his own. In short, he's passive. When he's pressed by Foreman, all he does is say "this shitty wagon on Calix is bad" (with no elaboration) and then buggers off.
darthfoley's post isn't anything amazing. I didn't feel like I gleaned any new insight from his notes, but somehow I still liked his post anyway. I'm probably being overly critical of an opening post, however.
ExO's filter is worse than I remember it being. Downgraded to null pending further information.
Haven't finished with mahrgell/ Foreman but I find them confusing. I find the former to be quite sincere with his confusing posts though so he might be town.
I haven't hated anything that TT's posted so he can go in the lean-town pile for now.
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And I've skimmed mahrgell/ Foreman's filters. I'll probably do it again when I wake up tomorrow.
In any case, I'm going to have a hell of a time reading them given variations in playing style, site meta, etc. As it stands, I think one of them has a higher than random chance of being scum. I just can't tell who. It's not as if my reasoning for thinking that they could be TvS is solid either. It's only because I don't find myself agreeing with their points against each other. I don't even remember most of their argument and I've just finished reading their filters.
I remember them being opposites to each other though. mahrgell's uncertain, likes to consider multiple options. Foreman is given to brevity and making confident reads. Interesting as a dynamic to say the least.
Given this, I invite everyone to filter-dive these two and give their opinions. If any of the low posters are stuck on what to talk about then this is a grand topic
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If you're not going to do anything then don't post. Don't clog up the thread when other people are actually playing.
Thanks.
Don't respond to this either.
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Thanks for the detailed response.
I think you make some valid points with mahrgell. I can agree that he is taking the role of Thread Police with regards to the arguments taking place in the thread and that he has been somewhat lacking in initiative when it comes to giving reads. (I believe his Foreman argument is his most substantial original contribution to date)
I third the stance that I am more townie than mahrgell is although I am inherently biased there Jokes aside, I'm finding it hard to see anything incriminating in your posts as it stands so you might be town as well.
I'll see how you take to the rest of the thread but I hope I'm right. Might be an easy game.
On November 03 2016 09:02 darthfoley wrote:I've noticed that mahrgell is asking a lot of questions, especially of NU and Calix-- basically telling them to stop attacking each other and talk about other people. I also noticed that he hasn't done this at all himself, he's only talked about Foreman and NU; with the former, his case seemed pretty meh to me, except for #3. Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 06:49 mahrgell wrote:On November 03 2016 06:17 Foreman wrote: I'd like to see some reads with original content from mahrgell. 3) Next Calix asks you about NU. Instead of answering, you refuse to answer at all, because you consider Calix scum. I believe enough people pointed out at this point that this is pretty anti-town. Considering you being worried about the town atmosphere before, this is rather ironic. The only problem is that even this isn't an original point. I pointed it out, and a few others. He even admits that this point was taken from other people. Also don't like how mahrgell keeps giving himself outs. I understand it's D1, but his posts are littered with him. Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 07:49 mahrgell wrote:On November 03 2016 07:34 Tictock wrote: Oh my bad mahrgell, I've been totally misspelling your name. I shall henceforth be reffering to you as gell to fix that.
What are your thoughts on Exo? - overdefended against air from Calix - retaliation vote, I mentioned I dislike those - kinda stubbornly tunneled Calix - neither of those are good things, but can also be very emotional TvT. Judging this would be easier if I knew some meta. So postponing this read for now, especially as I have higher priority lynch targets. If he thinks it would be easier knowing some meta, I expect him to go snooping and answer his question. In terms of Foreman: Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 06:33 Foreman wrote:On November 03 2016 06:30 NeverUnlucky wrote:
I dislike in this order Skynx, ExO, Foreman, Calix, you.
And I appreciated darthfoley's one post.
That's about how my read look like. How do you dislike mag**** less than Calix when mag**** has been an echo chamber of Calix? I like this post. I was also puzzled with this progression from NU. For me, I believe that the wishy-washy half step in, half step out approach of mahrgell is more scum indicative than Calix's tunneling. As of now, I like Foreman better than I like mahrgell. The only thing I have taken issue with so far in Foreman's game is his early dismissal of Calix, and his open admission that he plays anti-town or something. Like ???? Also curious why Ticktock goes from this: Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 07:00 Tictock wrote: Ok more or less caught up.
Exo and Foreman seem like the obv scum team to me atm. A little less sure on Foreman, but eh w/e.
...
After arguing with Calix a bunch all he did was call me scum for my one liner open. Seems like the obv lynch to me.
##Vote: Exo_ To soft defending him from NU in this post: Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 07:21 Tictock wrote:On November 03 2016 07:04 NeverUnlucky wrote: I agree with TT on all points. Especially line 3.
His VT claim was very odd, too, even more when you see him explaining it in 4 lines. It could have been him setting up a reason to be alive late in the game as scum, or he is a blue. In any case, I highly doubt that he is VT as VTs don't claim VT. Lol are you making it a point to put words in people's mouth or did you mix me up with someone? I don't think I said anything about Exo's shitty VT claim. Also VT's claim VT all the time.
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I wish Rels would pop up soon. It'll be easier to figure out the bigger picture then.
I'm not sure wherever Skynx/ ExO/ NU are being shitters because they're bad or because they're mafia as it stands.
As it stands, I'm probably going to end up voting within those three at the moment. I'm more inclined to hit a low-poster on D1 so I can be convinced to switch from NU for that reasoning alone.
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I'll confess to missing that TPR comment entirely.
What scum motivation do you two see behind it though? Is it odd? Sure, but I always figure that scum would just say "yo fam, ExO might be TPR" in their scum chat or something.
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On November 03 2016 09:29 NeverUnlucky wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 09:16 Calix wrote: I wish Rels would pop up soon. It'll be easier to figure out the bigger picture then.
I'm not sure wherever Skynx/ ExO/ NU are being shitters because they're bad or because they're mafia as it stands.
As it stands, I'm probably going to end up voting within those three at the moment. I'm more inclined to hit a low-poster on D1 so I can be convinced to switch from NU for that reasoning alone. I'm being a shitter because bad players are scum-reading me for bad reasons, and I am not having fun.
Good.
Moving onto relevant matters, I didn't completely hate the last half of your wall-post.
Saying it's for town cred is indicative of a manipulative mindset where he can change his mind at any time. AKA it's insincere. That's how I interpreted that post.
Last quote is also not terrible.
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Here's what I read out of the few overnight posts.
With regards to mahrgell, I'm starting to get a lean-town read on him. This is mainly because his responses have themes of "I'm approaching XYZ from both perspectives" and "I'm trying to encourage a positive town atmosphere".
Is this something that scum can do? Sure. He could be thread-policing, but I don't see how this actually furthers a scum agenda in his case. Scum want chaos, not an orderly atmosphere. The only thing that he's done that can be read in that light is his cases (due to their quality) but if he's been making cases to sow doubt then he's been doing a piss-poor job of making that happen.
Going back to the stances he has taken, I feel like he has been very persistent with this line of reasoning so far (even if his reasoning is strange/ unfocused) and even though I find him hard to understand at times, there's some consistency in the logic that he uses.
All that said, I'll reread his filter with these points in mind to see if he contradicts my view of him anywhere/ check the intent behind his cases.
On November 03 2016 15:11 ExO_ wrote: I'm tired. I just got home. I don't feel like reading through the read. But I'll tell you my thoughts in a nutshell from the point I left.
I jumped on to Calix initially and continued to pressure him(her?) long after I thought she was scum. I do think the way he entered the thread was dumb and likely to inflame me. But his responses afterwards seemed very much from a towny perspective. I continued the pressure to see who would jump on the bandwagon with me in an attempt to press low hanging fruit.
I'll look at it tomorrow, but NeverUnlucky/foreman are both going to be the first people I look at.
If you must know, I am of the female persuasion but don't sweat it if you call me a 'he'.
Question. When exactly did you 'stop thinking [I] was scum'?
How were my responses townie? I'd like to know. Your lack of elaboration here + thread consensus that I am town = suspicions that you are following thread sentiment with your shift in how you read me.
Your argument was full of holes which have already been pointed out, however. Few scum would hop onto my wagon using your reasoning.
(As a matter of fact, nobody did. Foreman claimed that I was 'tryhard' while NU had that atrocious meta-vote)
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I went into mahrgell's filter with the intent of finding both town/ scum explanations, but when I took a closer look at his early postings/ cases, I found multiple points of concern. In lieu of providing mahrgell with a town explanation for his posts, I will just let him answer for them himself.
On November 03 2016 04:09 mahrgell wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 04:01 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 03:54 mahrgell wrote:On November 03 2016 03:30 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 03:29 NeverUnlucky wrote:On November 03 2016 03:26 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 03:25 NeverUnlucky wrote:On November 03 2016 03:23 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 03:21 NeverUnlucky wrote: Haiii guises, let us keep this atmosphere positive!
I agree with Mr. Foreman and Mr. ExO that Calix's push is not her greatest, and I also agree with Calix that ExO's defensive response looks scummy!
Foreman, may I ask you where you are coming from in terms of community? c: I'm not pushing ExO. That's being extremely generous. I never claimed that ExO was scummy, just illogical. I didn't even call him defensive. Where did you get that from? I said that. Your quote says "I agree WITH CALIX" which implies that I said "ExO being defensive is scummy" at some point. Clarify this now, please. I actually don't agree with the points you've made. ExO's defensive, that's as much as one can say on his subject. Offski. I for one do not like NU. His tone seems weird, he makes statements that are factually inaccurate/ putting words into my mouth and then retracts them when called out on them. I don't understand why. Given that he's just disappeared, I'll wait for a response before concluding anything for sure but he's giving me bad vibes at the moment. Well 1) I share NU's interpretation of what happened. 2) I appreciate his call for civil communication, from what I read in Cruisetrip he could have also easily heated up the fire without it looking worse than his usual play. 3) But I also agree with you, that it is weird for him to "buddy" you, by pretending you were sharing his self made points. I don't think there is much reason for him to try to appease you. + Show Spoiler + With regards to Point 2, he is much tamer when he is scum. I'm not claiming that this is a 100% guaranteed tell (he is also busy and this has led to him being more subdued in the past) but it's in the back of my mind.
Well in my opinion, this is how it went down:
- He asks why ExO is being overly defensive. - I call ExO anti-town. - He misrepresented my positions by claiming that he agreed that I was a) scum-reading ExO and b) scum-reading ExO due to being overly defensive. - I ask him where he interpreted this from as those are not my positions. - He denies claiming this. - I tell him that he literally said in his quote "I agree with Calix"
This is where the scummy part is. He immediately backtracks from that position by saying "well I don't agree" and leaves it at that.
That's scummy because this progression could be NU trying to plant ideas inside of my head without actually taking responsibility for having the idea.
This is a compelling explanation because the ExO/ Calix discussion was still going on at this time. Thus, it's possible that he was trying to manipulate me into agreeing that ExO's behaviour is scummy.
It's also possible because I am well-known for getting myself into tunnels so I am a viable target.
So yeah, discuss and all that.
Yes, this is pretty much my 3). I fully agree with you here. Also he started voting Exo. Now of course he will most likely tell us, that he pregame announced he was PL'ing gifs. But that is just the same category as the usual "totally busy, won't post" pregame crap... Nice excuse if you roll mafia, and who cares if you don't do it and roll town. From a townie I would expect a calmer attitude instead of throwing votes on someone who posted one textpost and one gif. He could have easily stayed on Exo and push that lynch, if there is some movement. Or he could stay there, if he doesn't want to vote a scumbuddy... Or he could just switch as easy.... Overall... Not liking it. But let's wait for NU to explain himself.
Slight inconsistency with his reasoning here.
He says in his earlier post (bolded part of my first quote) that "NU could have heated up the fire without it looking much worse than his usual play". This shows that he is aware that NU's town play is to be antagonistic and start fires.
Here he says that "I would expect a calmer attitude from a townie" when referring to NU. This is a more general blanket statement about town play in general and it's strange to use it here when he's demonstrated an awareness of what town!NU plays like. I'm not entirely sure how these two sentences work together as a result.
(both sentences were made in a similar context)
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As for his cases, I won't ramble too much here. I am aware that mahrgell has already addressed some of my concerns with them so I don't want him to repeat himself.
- He uses 'anti-town' behaviour a lot when presenting his reasoning. It's Day 1 so this is understandable but I am noting it regardless in case it continues to be a theme. - Lack of conclusions continues to prevail. - He makes some semi-decent points...but then he concludes that it's anti-town instead of scummy behaviour.
The third point is the most worrying aspect of the cases in my opinion. The way he frames his points makes it sound like he would policy-lynch Foreman/ NU but he claims to scum-read them and I just don't see that in how he refers to them.
Some more in-depth thoughts on the cases below:
Foreman:
+ Show Spoiler [Quote] +On November 03 2016 06:49 mahrgell wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 06:17 Foreman wrote: I'd like to see some reads with original content from mahrgell. How many you need? You obviously ignored all my posts about yourself. But let's summarize and update: Looking at your entire post history, I try to figure out how you managed to come to the conclusion you have. If you have no information about the game, you should have seen the same as me. And yet somehow you managed to take another turn at pretty much every point in the game. So far all your actions have been about the opposite of what I would expect from someone who saw the same as I did, with the same information I have. (none).1) you see the Calix vs Exo_ interaction and for weird reasons tunnel down on Calix. Was she(it seems like Calix is a she?) pushing Exo? I don't think so. If she was, I agree it was pointless, but well... Day1. You were sure she was pushing Exo. Okay... Happy tunneling. 2) so you chase after people for having the antitown-proscum conversation, just to push that conversation further. If it was in your interest to remove this discussion from the thread to steer the game in a more town friendly direction, you should probably not try to last word in that conversation.3) Next Calix asks you about NU. Instead of answering, you refuse to answer at all, because you consider Calix scum. I believe enough people pointed out at this point that this is pretty anti-town. Considering you being worried about the town atmosphere before, this is rather ironic.4) I ask you about NU too. You dismiss it as parroting. Besides the fact that I consider it not parroting, but admit, that my critique on NU was very similar to Calix (earlier, not her latest) posts, let's for a moment assume it was parroting. At this point you claimed to scumlean Calix, but didn't say anything about me. If I were a townie, and see someone else parrot a person I consider scum... I for sure as hell would do my best to get this person to stop sheeping a scummie. Either you turn on me right away, or you try to get me away from her. Instead you just dismissed me. If I was sheeping Calix and you considered her scum, you willingly gave her an additional vote.5) Your general contribution to this thread has never been in the interest of improving the atmosphere. In none of the mentioned points have you ever tried for a constructive conversation. And your latest responses to NU weren't better either. Not sure if it was in this thread or in the other one, but when you asked about the TL meta someone (NU?) answered: "Be wrong and a dick about it" This is exactly what I see you doing here. I guess you earned it ##Vote Foreman
Anything in green would be the parts I liked.
I dislike the red sections because they are examples of the "pointing out weird behaviour but providing town explanations for them...in the same post that you vote for that player" pattern. (although I can see some town motivation for this, I'm going to wait until mahrgell posts more before I reveal what that is)
NeverUnlucky:
+ Show Spoiler [Quote] +On November 03 2016 07:26 mahrgell wrote:Well... from my perspective so far my topscum are: Foreman (as explained, and I will stay on him and hope to get this wagon rolling) NU
Why NU? I can already see people digging out the post where I waffled away from him. Goodwill is probably not a good town trait. But let me explain my thought:I initially agreed with Calix that he implied an opinion on Calix she didn't post before. This has been discussed enough. Nontheless I accepted his explanation about it, keeping the minor point against him noted. Him trying to create a positive atmosphere is something I value highly. Now Calix seemed to go completely overboard in tunnel mode, and I honestly cried on the inside about her points. But it were NU's answers who were supposed to destroy Calix points, which brought me back onto him. First he mentioned how he loves to powerwolf, winning 1v7 etc... Well... So basically his explanation for his initial misstep was devalued by that. Assuming he tries to balance his towngame against his mafiagame, not yet conclusive. But the doubt was increasing. Next was his vote on Calix. Seriously, he had absolutely no case here. Now you may tell me again, NU loves frustration voting. Okay. But I consider it a bad trait. NU, stop it or you will probably never get towncred with me. This isn't really advancing the game. If you consider Calix to spout nonsense, either make a proper case or ignore her and talk about what you have noticed with others.And last was this post: Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 07:04 NeverUnlucky wrote: I agree with TT on all points. Especially line 3.
His VT claim was very odd, too, even more when you see him explaining it in 4 lines. It could have been him setting up a reason to be alive late in the game as scum, or he is a blue. In any case, I highly doubt that he is VT as VTs don't claim VT. Really? A townie speculating about another player being blue or red? I mean, is this EVER smart? Mafia knows what color the guy is, and if he isn't red, you probably helped them in case they didn't notice. So by now, I can see myself supporting a NU wagon too. As said earlier, I still want Foreman gone first... But if this wagon does not play out and deadline was close, I would jump on a NU wagon too.
There's no green here. I have decided that I do not like this post.
Opening is highly relevant in this post because it's pretty bad. As said earlier, he sounds like he's policy-lynching NU/ Foreman yet he claims that they are his top scum-reads. Secondly, his use of refutation via the "I can already see people digging out the post where I waffled away from him line" shows a remarkable level of self-awareness about what he's posted. (and more alarmingly, a level of self-consciousness in how consistent he appears to everyone else)
Second paragraph has already been flagged up but I'm doing it again as it ties back to a theme of "pointing out suspicious behaviour but providing an explanation where the player is acting in an anti-town manner".
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Given my recent conclusion, I am moving my vote. If nothing else, I think that sorting out mahrgell/ Foreman will prove to be illuminating. I would like to hear more about those two in particular from Skynx and ExO.
TT has already made it clear that he considers mahrgell 'a top town' and Foreman mafia while NU scum-reads mahrgell. Not so sure on his Foreman read although I'm inferring it's a town-read so he's welcome to elaborate there if I'm wrong.
Anyway, this:
##vote mahrgell
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On November 03 2016 19:47 mahrgell wrote: Good morning.
@Calix Do you expect an answer from me on this? I could go on a wild ramble about your entire posts, but I'm afraid I would fall back into what was criticized before. So if you want anything answers, please cut it short in some questions.
About your concerns regarding me using the term antitown. I could again explain my general attitude regarding this game. I'm not fond of throwing SCUM! around day1. But when antitown behaviour piles up on certain players, at some point this turns into a scumlean. But again we are probably using different definitions in this game here.
If theres nothing more about me, I guess I will relook the Exo situation now.
An answer to the parts which are the most pertinent to you would be lovely, yes, given that you are the subject of the posts.
However, if you are going to do something else then I would prefer to see that first. As long as you don't expect me to forget about my points on you then you should be fine.
Can you just expand on your second paragraph? How do you usually find scum in games? What is your MO?
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#406 is mahrgell's best post that he's made. Actually really like it.
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On November 03 2016 21:34 Calix wrote: #406 is mahrgell's best post that he's made. Actually really like it.
To expand on this, he points out a potential inconsistency with ExO's posting and he took the time to review ExO's meta with some nuanced points made. (this is townie because it shows critical thinking)
He then shows a willingness to reconsider his other scum-reads after he realises that he has one too many.
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On November 03 2016 21:37 NeverUnlucky wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 21:34 Calix wrote: #406 is mahrgell's best post that he's made. Actually really like it. lmao You who HATES meta-reads like a meta-read post. Eh, not surprised I guess. You did try to meta-read me this game and proved yourself a hypocrite once again.
Why does that mean that other people can't use them? I said that it was his best post, not that I agree with meta reads.
What is even the point of this post aside from to be antagonistic exactly?
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On November 03 2016 21:40 NeverUnlucky wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 21:38 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 21:37 NeverUnlucky wrote:On November 03 2016 21:34 Calix wrote: #406 is mahrgell's best post that he's made. Actually really like it. lmao You who HATES meta-reads like a meta-read post. Eh, not surprised I guess. You did try to meta-read me this game and proved yourself a hypocrite once again. Why does that mean that other people can't use them? I said that it was his best post, not that I agree with meta reads. What is even the point of this post aside from to be antagonistic exactly? Point out the inconsistency in your narrative.
There is no inconsistency and nothing you say will make it so.
I'm not getting into an argument with you again so don't even try to start one. You're either mafia or toxic and both can be resolved by ignoring for the time being.
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On November 03 2016 21:42 mahrgell wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 19:58 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 19:47 mahrgell wrote: Good morning.
@Calix Do you expect an answer from me on this? I could go on a wild ramble about your entire posts, but I'm afraid I would fall back into what was criticized before. So if you want anything answers, please cut it short in some questions.
About your concerns regarding me using the term antitown. I could again explain my general attitude regarding this game. I'm not fond of throwing SCUM! around day1. But when antitown behaviour piles up on certain players, at some point this turns into a scumlean. But again we are probably using different definitions in this game here.
If theres nothing more about me, I guess I will relook the Exo situation now. An answer to the parts which are the most pertinent to you would be lovely, yes, given that you are the subject of the posts. However, if you are going to do something else then I would prefer to see that first. As long as you don't expect me to forget about my points on you then you should be fine. Can you just expand on your second paragraph? How do you usually find scum in games? What is your MO? MO? Sorry, I only know abbreviations I picked up during the 2 games I read. But regarding on how I scan for scum IRL, I think I pointed it out enough. I try to interpret everyones actions from a townie POV and from a scum POV. At some point I will fail to create those interpretations and this is where I dig deeper. Scum has usually 2 options: a) make up stuff b) reinforce shitty assumptions by townies Meanwhile a townie sees what I see. So if I feel myself completely unable to follow the line of thought of a player, this is a scumlean for me. In the end, I have to judge if the different judgements made by other players are due to different character or due to hidden agenda. And well... I prefer to play a rather high volume game, just to leave less gaps and more easily track the thought process of people. Sadly this is much harder online than IRL, as players can just go afk here..
Modus operandi.
I shall keep this in mind. Going back to my case earlier, I noted that you generally worded your scum-reads along the lines of "this doesn't make sense for town to do/ this is unproductive" so I wanted to see if you would say something along those lines in your response. Given that you have, that part of my case against you becomes a null tell.
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On November 03 2016 22:06 Rels wrote: NU can you link your best scum game please
He has two.
Go onto SC2Mafia and look in the archived S-FMs. His first one is Politico, his second one has some stupidly long name related to 'the game of spies'
He is trying to improve his scum game, however. He's been lynched first on both occasions so he needs to.
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On November 03 2016 22:25 Skynx wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 22:20 NeverUnlucky wrote:On November 03 2016 22:18 Skynx wrote: No voting thread?
##Vote: NeverUnlucky "Vote for the longest filter" A) Wrong vote. B) There is 0 argument for me to be mafia. A) You did not read apparently, no one said you were mafia. My vote is to help you stfu. B) Please go ahead and find me one post with solid arguments about anyone being mafia.
Amusingly enough, your STFU vote is on mafia.
I'm scum-reading him largely due to multiple inconsistencies (e.g., breaking his promise to keep discussion civil, flip-flopping on his read of me with dodgy read progression, contradicting stances he has taken on matters in past (town) games, he suspects half the players in the game but claims that he's not 'throwing shade') and being unnecessarily abrasive at a time when town has a semi-productive atmosphere.
I'm still writing up a larger post on this so consider this a summary.
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To be perfectly honest though, I don't really want to make another giant wall-post on NU so I'll just leave #443 as it is, invite people to read NU's filter and provide quotes if requested by anyone who isn't NU.
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On November 03 2016 22:39 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 19:30 Calix wrote: Given my recent conclusion, I am moving my vote. If nothing else, I think that sorting out mahrgell/ Foreman will prove to be illuminating. I would like to hear more about those two in particular from Skynx and ExO.
TT has already made it clear that he considers mahrgell 'a top town' and Foreman mafia while NU scum-reads mahrgell. Not so sure on his Foreman read although I'm inferring it's a town-read so he's welcome to elaborate there if I'm wrong.
Anyway, this:
##vote mahrgell I've actually been rethinking that townread on gell ever since I asked him about his Exo read. I glanced through his filter and noted he kinda avoided discussing Exo despite generally giving what look to me like reasons to scum read Exo. Like here: Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 07:49 mahrgell wrote:On November 03 2016 07:34 Tictock wrote: Oh my bad mahrgell, I've been totally misspelling your name. I shall henceforth be reffering to you as gell to fix that.
What are your thoughts on Exo? - overdefended against air from Calix - retaliation vote, I mentioned I dislike those - kinda stubbornly tunneled Calix - neither of those are good things, but can also be very emotional TvT. Judging this would be easier if I knew some meta. So postponing this read for now, especially as I have higher priority lynch targets. He lists 3 scummy things, but then suggests he thinks Exo is town? Also worth noting that he's had no issues scum reading Foreman despite not knowing any meta, so that line feels more like an excuse to not read Exo. I think Darth also pointed out this response and how gell just left the meta thing as an excuse without bothering to try and get a meta read if that's what he feels is valuable. This was all associative though so I was kinda setting it aside unless we got a red flip from Exo. Who I still think is the better lynch atm.
I don't think that your point is strong. That "very emotional TvT" comment looks like his attempt at ascribing town motivation to the ExO/ Calix debacle. (something he's been doing a lot)
He also made a meta read/ analysis on ExO later on, concluding scum-lean. I'm assuming you haven't caught up yet though.
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On November 03 2016 22:57 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 21:43 NeverUnlucky wrote: ##Unvote ##Vote Calix
Town doesn't ignore other members of the town. I'm ignoring exactly 100% of these pushes between you and Calix. Honestly you two seem to get so emotionally worked up over how you read each other I have a hard time taking any of it seriously. ... You guys might actually make an amazing scum team.
Jesus Christ, no. I would kill myself if that happened.
That aside, I still think you should read his filter and let us know what you think. I think he's mafia but I'm not intending to spam the thread with "LYNCH NU"
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On November 03 2016 23:15 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 22:51 Rels wrote: K I'm almost caught up but I also have to go for a few hours, afternoon is full of meetings. My reads atm: TOWN Foreman NU ExO Calix TT Skynx mahrgell DF SCUM
See you soon! Uhhh... Wut?
Problem?
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On November 03 2016 23:24 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 23:16 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 23:15 Tictock wrote:On November 03 2016 22:51 Rels wrote: K I'm almost caught up but I also have to go for a few hours, afternoon is full of meetings. My reads atm: TOWN Foreman NU ExO Calix TT Skynx mahrgell DF SCUM
See you soon! Uhhh... Wut? Problem? Yea I think he fucked up his formatting or summin. Oh wait is it like a town to scum thing? Pretty weak list if that's the case.
Yeah it's pretty clear what his reads are.
I actually agree with you that Rels is underwhelming. Admittedly I am biased here - I've only seen him play when I was scum and I was actually pretty nervous of him that game - but I don't get that same kind of 'aggression' or whatever here. I don't know wherever he's apathetic town or scum though so there's that to contend with.
But looking at his filter, he does this:
- Town-reads ExO for claiming VT - Talks about NU's meta/ turbo game, disagrees with NU's assessment - Scum-reads Skynx due to 'looking like scum!TW in 72 hours' - Claims to hate darthfoley's post (does not say why) - Questions your town-reads on mahrgell/ myself
Given that's all he's done, that's a fair amount of shade-throwing in my opinion and not a lot of explaining his scum-reads.
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Also he has said nothing intelligent yet. Basically I did not feel better off after reading his filter.
So yes, could be mafia.
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Also I'd appreciate your opinion on Rels in that Newbie game since you were largely uninformed and all that.
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On November 03 2016 23:47 mahrgell wrote: In general: I will have family time starting in about 4 hours... until Saturday noon. This will reduce my activity drastically, I will probably mainly phone post from time to time. In case you consider lynching me and want to throw questions at me... I would love to answer them before.
I don't actually know about you.
Because I made a case and I think it's a pretty good one with some genuinely scummy behaviour displayed in the posts I flagged up and you didn't really counter those points.
But then I've actually liked some of your recent content and honestly that's probably more productive than actually getting into a multi-quote war with me anyway.
Basically I have a lot of doubts over which alignment you are, so I'm unvoting for now.
##unvote mahrgell
I'm popping out in ten, won't be back for a few hours at least.
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On November 03 2016 23:55 mahrgell wrote:@Calix I answered your case earlier. Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 19:47 mahrgell wrote: @Calix Do you expect an answer from me on this? I could go on a wild ramble about your entire posts, but I'm afraid I would fall back into what was criticized before. So if you want anything answers, please cut it short in some questions.
I meant that you didn't counter the individual points.
But I'm not going to force you to answer because I prefer it when you make original content, so keep doing that please.
Anyway, must pop out now. Break a leg.
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On November 03 2016 23:59 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 23:35 Calix wrote: Also I'd appreciate your opinion on Rels in that Newbie game since you were largely uninformed and all that. Honestly I don't really recall it was a bit too long ago, I'll go skim to refresh my memory though.
Ah, yea he seemed like obv town that game due to how gung-ho he was right off the bat and his interactions with Lunatic (and lunatic flipping scum) made it super obv he was town. I don't feel like comparing the games is a good way to read Rels though, I've seen him be lackluster as town when he doesn't have much time and super active and involved as scum when he does. Giving it more thought I might actually give Rels a slight townlean because as scum I think he'd be more worried about how he presents his reads, here it is more like he's just sharing what he's got so far.
I've reread it myself. He specifically said in that Newbie game that he was going to be try-hard so I'm concluding that it's an inaccurate way of reading Rels this game. (as he said that he has RL commitments this round) Wouldn't go as far as to town-lean him for it but let's see how Rels reacts.
On November 04 2016 00:14 Skynx wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2016 00:04 Foreman wrote: ##Vote: Skynx
I've yet to see one productive post from this guy, and it's hard to remember that he's even in the game. I'm here, still reading all the shitty posts unfortunately and that takes time. Also, congratz for exposing yourself for going after a low-hanging fruit.
This looks scummy on the surface, but this is actually something that Skynx has said as town before. I was in a TPR chat with him in my first game and he explained that he "deliberately plays scummy to bait the mafia" or something like that. I don't think that this defense is AI for Skynx as a consequence.
Haven't properly reviewed Skynx' posts yet, but I'm all for him contributing so I'm not going to complain there.
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Read the case against TT. It looks fine on the surface but none of the points really convince me. That is to say, I don't think any of the perceived contradictions are that scummy because when I read them, I interpreted them differently to how darthfoley did. Town can contradict themselves as much as scum so I'd have to see legitimate scum motivation for said contradictions before I would be convinced.
Take the last part. I didn't read TT's post as saying "Skynx is scummy because of his opening being silent" or whatever but DF did. I'm going to wait for TT to respond before I elaborate because I don't want to give him ideas for a defense but that's my two pence on it.
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+ Show Spoiler [Skynx' wallposts] +On November 04 2016 00:37 Skynx wrote:Bad stuff:Mahg Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 03:28 mahrgell wrote:On November 03 2016 03:17 NeverUnlucky wrote:On November 03 2016 03:11 ExO_ wrote:On November 03 2016 03:08 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 03:06 ExO_ wrote:On November 03 2016 03:04 Calix wrote: NU's boring. Nothing new to see there.
ExO, should I be asking why you're not 'largely communicating in gifs'? Don't get me wrong, I'm glad you're not, but I'm curious as to what made you change your mind. So if you ARE mainly communicating in gifs then why claim a role first thing before doing that? Seems illogical for town to do. You think it's illogical for me to immediate claim VT before posting a gif? Give me a break. If anything your attempt to get me to revert to gif posting only and now trying to throw shade on me is indicative of your scum alignment Why so defensive, mate? :< "Give me a break" after two trivial questions is much of an over-exaggeration, mang. mahrgell (spelled your name right), what do you make of Exo and Calix's lil" chit chat so far? c: 1) I'm very proud you got my name correct this time. Maybe we delay your lynch a few days! 2) Calix: Looked to me like an "let's start the game" thing, I don't share Exo's interpretation that Calix wanted to silence him. This does not tell anything about Calix though. Could be fake activity, considering that those pathetically weak early attempts rarely lead to much information, could also honest interest in starting something. So nothing here. 3) Exo: his retaliation seemed... weird. I don't see a point there. I guess I could consider it something meta'ish that you blindly accuse everyone day1 to be mafia to "apply pressure and get things going". So either minor scumlean or just some broken metashit.4) conclusion: I consider it for now as TvT, if it is MvT I would lean more in facor of Calix being the townie, I doubt it is MvM, but well... people can prep the most stupid shit before the game... Let's wait and see PS: if anyone is not a he and wants to be called a she... tell me... Otherwise I use internet rule #1 and consider everyone a male. Bolded gives two opposite directions of having a lean on Exo. "Wierd and pointless" for a scum perspective for overreaction and "pressure and get the game going" for town perspective. He looks quite uncertain about both regards by his specific wording. Then this happens: Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 03:59 mahrgell wrote: @Exo so, you are sticking with Calix as your prime scumcandidate? Exo replies yes. Mahg says nothing. Mind you this is like the only thing going on in the thread other than Calix vs NU. Then he goes after NU, accusing him of not following up on Exo vote and posts this. Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 04:22 mahrgell wrote:On November 03 2016 04:17 Foreman wrote:On November 03 2016 04:14 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 04:10 Foreman wrote:On November 03 2016 04:01 mahrgell wrote: @Foreman Now that you noticed your misread. Are you still going after Calix, or have you shifted your focus on NU? Would the argument you made for Calix also apply to NU? Or where do you see the difference there? The fact he isn't voting ExO does not make his push any less disingenuous. Knock knock, Calix is here, asking you to read my NU case like a good dear. Is my NU case also disingenuous? If so, how? Considering you've yet to acquit yourself for that shady ExO push, I'm not concerned about your NU push when he isn't even here to respond to it. Why not? Following multiple leads is not bad for town. And even if we flip Calix in the end, no matter what color it is, having his talking points discussed would be beneficial to town. So I can't understand that refusal to comment on it. Especially as I would be very interested in your opinion. Don't worry, we won't forget about Calix. And if you feel it got forgotten, ust bring it up later again, if someone wants to balem you for it, just forward it to me. Where is your follow up on Exo then? --- Calix All started with this: Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 03:08 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 03:06 ExO_ wrote:On November 03 2016 03:04 Calix wrote: NU's boring. Nothing new to see there.
ExO, should I be asking why you're not 'largely communicating in gifs'? Don't get me wrong, I'm glad you're not, but I'm curious as to what made you change your mind. So if you ARE mainly communicating in gifs then why claim a role first thing before doing that? Seems illogical for town to do. Bolded sentence implies a scumread, as if someone thinks a sane person would do something illogical from a town perspective that would suggest it would be a logical move from scum perspective. This gets noticed, and called out by many including Exo, NU, Foreman and magh? if i remember correctly and see how much defence there is for "I didn't scumread Exo". I'm spoilering them cuz they are just so many. + Show Spoiler +On November 03 2016 03:23 Calix wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 03:21 NeverUnlucky wrote: Haiii guises, let us keep this atmosphere positive!
I agree with Mr. Foreman and Mr. ExO that Calix's push is not her greatest, and I also agree with Calix that ExO's defensive response looks scummy!
Foreman, may I ask you where you are coming from in terms of community? c: I'm not pushing ExO. That's being extremely generous. I never claimed that ExO was scummy, just illogical. I didn't even call him defensive. Where did you get that from? On November 03 2016 03:35 Calix wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 03:29 ExO_ wrote: Also to clarify why I'm claiming my VT role right now:
I'm getting it out the open right now. I think in a game this size trying to fake claim to get scum to target me would be a waste of time. So I'm letting everyone know now I don't have any abilities I cannot do anything at night and can only vote. You can choose to either believe me or not, but I'm telling the truth This is another example of anti-town behaviour which I do not agree with. That is NOT the same as pro-scum. Allow me to clear that one up. Some people seem to be misinterpreting my stance on ExO as "scum-lean" when it's not. On November 03 2016 03:40 Calix wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 03:38 Foreman wrote:On November 03 2016 03:33 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 03:29 Foreman wrote:On November 03 2016 03:20 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 03:19 Foreman wrote:On November 03 2016 03:08 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 03:06 ExO_ wrote:On November 03 2016 03:04 Calix wrote: NU's boring. Nothing new to see there.
ExO, should I be asking why you're not 'largely communicating in gifs'? Don't get me wrong, I'm glad you're not, but I'm curious as to what made you change your mind. So if you ARE mainly communicating in gifs then why claim a role first thing before doing that? Seems illogical for town to do. Way to overanalyze. So tryhard that it makes me think I should ##Vote Calix Sheep vote noted. How is claiming that posting gifs after claiming a role tryhard? So you accuse me of sheeping, then question my push. Discredit noted. Giving somebody crap for not shitting up the thread has a couple different scum motivations behind it: 1) You are going after an easy target for not doing what they said they'd do (after they got some friction about it when they announced it, iirc?) 2) Your post clearly nudged them to return to that practice despite your transparent disclaimer, which would be pro-scum if they were to do so. You are voting right after I received a vote. There is no discrediting here, only using evidence to draw a conclusion. Why would I not question your push? I don't consider 'tryhard' to be a scum-tell and wanted to know what your logic was for thinking so. I am not scum-reading ExO. That's not 'going after an easy target', it's asking for a response to a simple question. No it didn't. I asked why they weren't doing it. That cannot be interpreted as a subtle nudge to keep doing it in any world. It's not pro-scum. It's anti-town. Sheeping is voting using somebody else's reasons. I voted with my own push. Not the same thing. If you're not scumreading ExO, your vote is in the wrong place. Shitting up a thread is pro-scum because it allows scum to more easily hide in the noise it creates. I may be new to this site, but don't think for a second that means you can bullshit me. Correction. I am not voting for ExO and you should be suspicious of me if I was given that you (correctly) think I am not scum-reading him.See my previous response for my take on anti-town/ pro-scum. On November 03 2016 04:01 Calix wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 03:54 mahrgell wrote:On November 03 2016 03:30 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 03:29 NeverUnlucky wrote:On November 03 2016 03:26 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 03:25 NeverUnlucky wrote:On November 03 2016 03:23 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 03:21 NeverUnlucky wrote: Haiii guises, let us keep this atmosphere positive!
I agree with Mr. Foreman and Mr. ExO that Calix's push is not her greatest, and I also agree with Calix that ExO's defensive response looks scummy!
Foreman, may I ask you where you are coming from in terms of community? c: I'm not pushing ExO. That's being extremely generous. I never claimed that ExO was scummy, just illogical. I didn't even call him defensive. Where did you get that from? I said that. Your quote says "I agree WITH CALIX" which implies that I said "ExO being defensive is scummy" at some point. Clarify this now, please. I actually don't agree with the points you've made. ExO's defensive, that's as much as one can say on his subject. Offski. I for one do not like NU. His tone seems weird, he makes statements that are factually inaccurate/ putting words into my mouth and then retracts them when called out on them. I don't understand why. Given that he's just disappeared, I'll wait for a response before concluding anything for sure but he's giving me bad vibes at the moment. Well 1) I share NU's interpretation of what happened. 2) I appreciate his call for civil communication, from what I read in Cruisetrip he could have also easily heated up the fire without it looking worse than his usual play. 3) But I also agree with you, that it is weird for him to "buddy" you, by pretending you were sharing his self made points. I don't think there is much reason for him to try to appease you. With regards to Point 2, he is much tamer when he is scum. I'm not claiming that this is a 100% guaranteed tell (he is also busy and this has led to him being more subdued in the past) but it's in the back of my mind. Well in my opinion, this is how it went down: - He asks why ExO is being overly defensive. - I call ExO anti-town.- He misrepresented my positions by claiming that he agreed that I was a) scum-reading ExO and b) scum-reading ExO due to being overly defensive. - I ask him where he interpreted this from as those are not my positions. - He denies claiming this. - I tell him that he literally said in his quote "I agree with Calix" This is where the scummy part is. He immediately backtracks from that position by saying "well I don't agree" and leaves it at that. That's scummy because this progression could be NU trying to plant ideas inside of my head without actually taking responsibility for having the idea. This is a compelling explanation because the ExO/ Calix discussion was still going on at this time. Thus, it's possible that he was trying to manipulate me into agreeing that ExO's behaviour is scummy. It's also possible because I am well-known for getting myself into tunnels so I am a viable target. So yeah, discuss and all that. On November 03 2016 05:10 Calix wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 05:05 Skynx wrote:On November 03 2016 05:00 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 04:58 Skynx wrote:On November 03 2016 04:56 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 04:54 Skynx wrote:On November 03 2016 04:53 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 04:50 Skynx wrote: None of what happened so far is AI guys please... Then do something that will make AI posts happen. What is the point of sitting around and complaining that people are making early reads exactly? What is the point of spamming bunch of stuff that doesn't have anything to do with anything other than increasing postcount for people that are not here yet? To generate conversation so that the not-yet-here people have something constructive to add, of course. What is your strategy to find scum if we're doing a poor job of it? Add something constructive when i find opportunity to do so. Like I'm doing now, stopping you guys go overboard with surjective NAI stuff cuz it really means absolutely nothing what you guys accuse each other for in past few pages Oh wonderful, that means that you can tell us how my case on NU doesn't show scum-indicative behaviour Do you have any reads at all? I'm skeptical that you have no initial impressions at all. Here is what happened; Calix sr Exo (gif stuff) Exo sr Calix (doesn't like his push) Everyone sr Everyone (because all pushes are very surjective and doesn't mean anything and everyone is aware of that so might aswell sr the others) What you are asking right now makes sense in that regard as me suggesting you guys pushing NAI stuff on eachother means I should also sr you guys but its just not right and this is all really nothing productive in the end. Fact-check. I never stated a scum-read on ExO. "all pushes are very subjective" - It's Day 1. Of course they are going to be 'subjective'. In fact, almost every single push in the history of mafia is 'subjective'. That doesn't mean you just do nothing since town has to be proactive to gain information, etc etc. This is all very obvious stuff so I won't drone on. With that in mind, your approach is very hard to understand to me. On November 03 2016 05:17 Calix wrote: Stating that someone's illogical =/= scum-read, Skynx dear.
As for mahrgell, if you're using mind melds to inform a read then that's fine. But from my point of view, I don't get the same impression when it's vice versa. I would have to see you post things first that I agreed with before I would make that read. It's mostly been you agreeing with me if I recall correctly so I can see where you're coming from in terms of perspective. The whole thing is just so bullshit. Ofc you imply that he is scum. How can you say that he is being anti-town but at the same time say that "sorry guys he's anti-town but I'm not scumreading him"? What was the point of that in the end? Obviously nothing, you tried something as a scum and got called out and had to backpaddle for next 5 pages try to bury it. ---- Foreman Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 03:19 Foreman wrote:On November 03 2016 03:08 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 03:06 ExO_ wrote:On November 03 2016 03:04 Calix wrote: NU's boring. Nothing new to see there.
ExO, should I be asking why you're not 'largely communicating in gifs'? Don't get me wrong, I'm glad you're not, but I'm curious as to what made you change your mind. So if you ARE mainly communicating in gifs then why claim a role first thing before doing that? Seems illogical for town to do. Way to overanalyze. So tryhard that it makes me think I should ##Vote Calix Very dodgy vote for "overanalyzing = tryhard" or w/e. Gets called out by Calix, as his vote came after NU with very little reasoning behind. Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 03:29 Foreman wrote:On November 03 2016 03:20 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 03:19 Foreman wrote:On November 03 2016 03:08 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 03:06 ExO_ wrote:On November 03 2016 03:04 Calix wrote: NU's boring. Nothing new to see there.
ExO, should I be asking why you're not 'largely communicating in gifs'? Don't get me wrong, I'm glad you're not, but I'm curious as to what made you change your mind. So if you ARE mainly communicating in gifs then why claim a role first thing before doing that? Seems illogical for town to do. Way to overanalyze. So tryhard that it makes me think I should ##Vote Calix Sheep vote noted. How is claiming that posting gifs after claiming a role tryhard? So you accuse me of sheeping, then question my push.
Discredit noted.
Giving somebody crap for not shitting up the thread has a couple different scum motivations behind it: 1) You are going after an easy target for not doing what they said they'd do (after they got some friction about it when they announced it, iirc?) 2) Your post clearly nudged them to return to that practice despite your transparent disclaimer, which would be pro-scum if they were to do so. First, it was not a push. You voted Calix for absolutely nothing scum indicative then call his callout discrediting you. Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 03:38 Foreman wrote:On November 03 2016 03:33 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 03:29 Foreman wrote:On November 03 2016 03:20 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 03:19 Foreman wrote:On November 03 2016 03:08 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 03:06 ExO_ wrote:On November 03 2016 03:04 Calix wrote: NU's boring. Nothing new to see there.
ExO, should I be asking why you're not 'largely communicating in gifs'? Don't get me wrong, I'm glad you're not, but I'm curious as to what made you change your mind. So if you ARE mainly communicating in gifs then why claim a role first thing before doing that? Seems illogical for town to do. Way to overanalyze. So tryhard that it makes me think I should ##Vote Calix Sheep vote noted. How is claiming that posting gifs after claiming a role tryhard? So you accuse me of sheeping, then question my push. Discredit noted. Giving somebody crap for not shitting up the thread has a couple different scum motivations behind it: 1) You are going after an easy target for not doing what they said they'd do (after they got some friction about it when they announced it, iirc?) 2) Your post clearly nudged them to return to that practice despite your transparent disclaimer, which would be pro-scum if they were to do so. You are voting right after I received a vote. There is no discrediting here, only using evidence to draw a conclusion. Why would I not question your push? I don't consider 'tryhard' to be a scum-tell and wanted to know what your logic was for thinking so. I am not scum-reading ExO. That's not 'going after an easy target', it's asking for a response to a simple question. No it didn't. I asked why they weren't doing it. That cannot be interpreted as a subtle nudge to keep doing it in any world. It's not pro-scum. It's anti-town. Sheeping is voting using somebody else's reasons. I voted with my own push. Not the same thing. If you're not scumreading ExO, your vote is in the wrong place. Shitting up a thread is pro-scum because it allows scum to more easily hide in the noise it creates. I may be new to this site, but don't think for a second that means you can bullshit me. You didn't have a push. You voted, then made up reasons for it cuz the vote was shit: The so called "tryhard and overanalyzing" transformed into "going after low hanging fruit and motivating people to behave anti-town" On November 04 2016 00:51 Skynx wrote:More badness cuz of word limit Tictock Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 07:00 Tictock wrote: Ok more or less caught up.
Exo and Foreman seem like the obv scum team to me atm. A little less sure on Foreman, but eh w/e.
Exo is prob scum for his reaction to Calix's questions as well as him dropping the gif stuff. Calix was right to ask him why he dropped his "I'm gunna post in mostly gifs" kus the most likely reason why he would drop that plan is if he rolled scum and decided it would draw too much attn to himself. I think the fact the he only posted the one gif kinda supports that as well.
Exo's push on Calix is pretty BS too, saying she is scum for "trying to get him to post gifs" is just stupid kus there is no way that is what she was implying. Not to mention that I don't think Calix would ever do that as scum either.
After arguing with Calix a bunch all he did was call me scum for my one liner open. Seems like the obv lynch to me.
##Vote: Exo_ Exo is scum with Foreman Exo is scum for overreacting to a bad push > No, he had right to do that, he got voted by someone else plus the guy making the push didn't vote for him and said he is not even scumreading him. He has to retaliate here otherwise people will accuse him for not going after shitty pushes. Exo is scum for dropping the gif stuff > So you actually suggest him trying to be pro-town implies he did it because he rolled mafia is absolute OMGUS. Exo is scum for shitty push on Calix > I can sort of agree with this cuz it was badly worded. However this is quite bad as Exo's push is not indicative of Calix' alignment as regardless of the retaliation, Calix' push was bad and he stepped back from it and should be pushed for it. Nothing about Foreman this is literally the worse case ever Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 07:05 Tictock wrote: Calix and Marghal (or w/e) are my top town atm. Mostly everything they have done has been to push the game forward and have been looking at multiple people from multiple angles.
Skynx is a little shitter for trying to imply that this early game is NAI. This is prob the least jokey start of a game I have every seen. Kinda null on him despite his early posts seeming unlikely to come from scum imo.
I kinda think NU is town but I'm not really sure why, just feels natural and relaxed I guess. In the same vein I kinda liked Dark's one post too so they are both townleaning nulls. "pushing the game forward" here means voting for wrong and weak and meaningless reasons that are not there. what does this even mean? Can you like quote some stuff indicating why them two are town? Cuz i see nothing. Middle ground on me, calls me shitter, unlikely to come from scum, in the end null. If above two are town for pushing the game forward by a clear margin for you, why am I not an as clear scum for doing the absolute opposite?? These don't make any sense. Two lists of opinions about people after a long silence and they are all meaningless/wrong. ##Vote: Tictock
Town act in illogical ways all the time. Someone being illogical for town doesn't automatically make it logical for scum. It just makes it a bad idea to do as town.
I don't really know how to take Skynx into account now. I'm actually inclined to think he's town because he's clearly been taking notes on the players - aka, it must have taken a lot of time and effort to filter most of the players and criticise them.
"But Calix, isn't he throwing shade?"
I don't think so. He's so abrasive towards everyone that it reads as townie to me. Scum don't generally make some shitty whining posts and follow that up with scathing analysis of over half the players in the game. That's a good way to piss everyone off. He makes it clear which player he scum-reads the most as well (Tictock) so he's not just throwing shit out there and seeing which one will take the best with the town.
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I feel like I am being overly generous with my town-reads though. As it stands, I'm town-reading Skynx, mahrgell, darthfoley, ExO, Foreman to varying degrees.
Unless the scum team is something like Rels/ NU or TT/ Rels or some shit then I've definitely fucked up somewhere.
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On November 04 2016 02:28 darthfoley wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2016 01:53 NeverUnlucky wrote: Perhaps you have reads you would like to share? c: Sure I think Foreman is most town to me. My pyramid thing would go something like this TownForeman NU, Calix, Skynx Rels mahrgell, ExO, TT MafiaI have Rels null because he's yet to really engage the thread besides an early read pyramid. I want to hear why he "hated" my post, among other things. Can I get Calix's and your opinion of each other? I'm pretty sure you are townreading each other, yet continue to bicker and harp on the same points. I'd also like to hear what you think of Ticktock
If you got "Calix and NU town-read each other" and "bicker and harp on the same points" at this point in time from us then you haven't been reading.
I think he's mafia. I'm currently ignoring him until I'm prepared to re-evaluate him since he might just be a shitter. As you may have gathered, it's difficult for either of us to form an impartial read on the other.
Also he irritates me and I'd rather play the game without dealing with that.
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On November 04 2016 02:44 mahrgell wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 23:59 Tictock wrote:On November 03 2016 23:35 Calix wrote: Also I'd appreciate your opinion on Rels in that Newbie game since you were largely uninformed and all that. Honestly I don't really recall it was a bit too long ago, I'll go skim to refresh my memory though.
Ah, yea he seemed like obv town that game due to how gung-ho he was right off the bat and his interactions with Lunatic (and lunatic flipping scum) made it super obv he was town. I don't feel like comparing the games is a good way to read Rels though, I've seen him be lackluster as town when he doesn't have much time and super active and involved as scum when he does. Giving it more thought I might actually give Rels a slight townlean because as scum I think he'd be more worried about how he presents his reads, here it is more like he's just sharing what he's got so far. Ticktock says two lines before that you shouldn't compare games with Rels, because of his variability, then gives him a slight townlean based off of what can only be characterized as meta analysis off of previous games. Why would you think his scum play is likely to play out one way or another when you've just admitted that he has various playstyles? Again, I disagree. I consider the first line to be a metaanalysis on activity (= you cant meta him on activity). While the second is more of an analysis on general town/scumtraits. Imho you are just tunneling here, and try to spin things so they fit your foregone conclusion.
This is pretty close to how I read TT's post too. I don't think DF is tunneling but aside from that, I second this.
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On November 04 2016 02:48 mahrgell wrote: Okay... Can some of the people who Hard-Town Foreman explain their reasons to me? I can't find them myself, but I would love some eye opener.
I'm not one of the hard-town people, but your comment encouraged me to reread his filter.
And I just realised that he posted within the past two hours with a vote on Skynx. Meh.
A lot of his filter is stuff from yesterday and it's not as great as I thought. He can move down to a null read unless someone has a convincing argument either way.
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On November 04 2016 02:57 darthfoley wrote: I see your point. Meh
What point?
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TT, I appreciate the attempt to knock some sense into NU but he's not going to give up so I would just recommend talking about something else. If he continues acting like that then he can be policy-lynched.
He's too selfish to consider that he's making the game less pleasant for the others by spamming so it's a wasted effort.
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On November 04 2016 03:35 Foreman wrote:Nah... One perhaps but not both. I'm leaning TvT, personally. I'd expect scum to be more laid back and just pushing back enough to get out of the public eye.
I know I said I'd ignore him but I feel like I should chip in here.
He's probably town purely for being this unpleasant and obsessive. But I feel like that should be noted.
However I don't like it and I'm not going to respond to his posts.
If he keeps doing it then I'm going to the hosts. Maybe I'm just biased, but I don't feel like I did anything that warrants being called trash and being threatened with "making Calix's experience in the game hell until she does X". All I did was make a case against him which he overreacted to.
He's only like this around me and honestly, I am so fucking sick and tired of it. All we did last game was bicker and argue and shit-post and it ruined the game. I want to change and then he goes and throws a temper tantrum.
I'm here for a quiet game. I just don't have the time or energy to deal with him and I don't think I should have to when he's acting like this.
I hope I've explained myself enough and would like to think that his reaction to me shows why I feel this way.
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##vote Rels
I've explained my thoughts on Rels here.
On November 03 2016 23:28 Calix wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 23:24 Tictock wrote:On November 03 2016 23:16 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 23:15 Tictock wrote:On November 03 2016 22:51 Rels wrote: K I'm almost caught up but I also have to go for a few hours, afternoon is full of meetings. My reads atm: TOWN Foreman NU ExO Calix TT Skynx mahrgell DF SCUM
See you soon! Uhhh... Wut? Problem? Yea I think he fucked up his formatting or summin. Oh wait is it like a town to scum thing? Pretty weak list if that's the case. Yeah it's pretty clear what his reads are. I actually agree with you that Rels is underwhelming. Admittedly I am biased here - I've only seen him play when I was scum and I was actually pretty nervous of him that game - but I don't get that same kind of 'aggression' or whatever here. I don't know wherever he's apathetic town or scum though so there's that to contend with. But looking at his filter, he does this: - Town-reads ExO for claiming VT - Talks about NU's meta/ turbo game, disagrees with NU's assessment - Scum-reads Skynx due to 'looking like scum!TW in 72 hours' - Claims to hate darthfoley's post (does not say why) - Questions your town-reads on mahrgell/ myself Given that's all he's done, that's a fair amount of shade-throwing in my opinion and not a lot of explaining his scum-reads.
Is this enough to warrant a full-blown scum-read? No.
However I have reasons to town-read everyone else so this is largely a "voting for the players who are least-likely to be town" kind of vote, not a "Rels is super-scummy" thing.
I'll reread the cases against TT, Skynx, ExO, etc later today or tomorrow though,
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On November 04 2016 04:02 darthfoley wrote: mahrgell rels scum team?! the plot thickens!
I'm not sure I follow your point. Does mahrgell say "Rels disagreeing with me on XYZ reads is bad" and uses the "but he's controversial" part as a mitigating factor? I can kind of see an argument for "he's hedging on Rels" but I'm not sure if that was what you were implying.
I'd appreciate some clarification on your thought process here
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oesn't mahrgell
Damn it.
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On November 04 2016 04:30 ExO_ wrote:I didn't like his filter and trust skynx
I also town-read Skynx. Doesn't mean that's a reason to sheep him.
I hope you have other thoughts since this is rather underwhelming so far.
Also I'm not that convinced on TT so I am midway through skimming his filter. I actually think his responses have been quite reasonable so far.
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On November 04 2016 04:35 Skynx wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2016 04:33 Calix wrote:On November 04 2016 04:30 ExO_ wrote:On November 04 2016 04:18 Calix wrote: Reasoning? I didn't like his filter and trust skynx I also town-read Skynx. Doesn't mean that's a reason to sheep him. I hope you have other thoughts since this is rather underwhelming so far. Also I'm not that convinced on TT so I am midway through skimming his filter. I actually think his responses have been quite reasonable so far. You think his response to my post was good?
If you're referring to #467 then allow me to go into more detail:
- I agree with the part about ExO. My question was a reasonable thing to ask, simple as that, and it's undeniable that ExO overreacted.
- I disagree that it makes ExO scum though which is what TT thinks.
- I don't understand why you call his scum-read on ExO OMGUS unless I misunderstood something.
- Your most valid point is his read on you compared to his read on ExO which he doesn't explain well. (the last part) I think you could have cut out the rest of your case since it's your best point.
Otherwise yes, I think his responses were fine.
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I maintain that Rels is a good lynch to be honest.
TT seems to have arrived, however. Let's see if he blows me away with some super-townie posts or whatever.
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I'd like TT to clarify his reads on ExO and Skynx, especially with reference to that "attention-seeking" thing. I found that hard to follow.
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On November 04 2016 04:48 Skynx wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2016 04:40 Calix wrote:On November 04 2016 04:35 Skynx wrote:On November 04 2016 04:33 Calix wrote:On November 04 2016 04:30 ExO_ wrote:On November 04 2016 04:18 Calix wrote: Reasoning? I didn't like his filter and trust skynx I also town-read Skynx. Doesn't mean that's a reason to sheep him. I hope you have other thoughts since this is rather underwhelming so far. Also I'm not that convinced on TT so I am midway through skimming his filter. I actually think his responses have been quite reasonable so far. You think his response to my post was good? If you're referring to #467 then allow me to go into more detail: - I agree with the part about ExO. My question was a reasonable thing to ask, simple as that, and it's undeniable that ExO overreacted. - I disagree that it makes ExO scum though which is what TT thinks. - I don't understand why you call his scum-read on ExO OMGUS unless I misunderstood something. - Your most valid point is his read on you compared to his read on ExO which he doesn't explain well. (the last part) I think you could have cut out the rest of your case since it's your best point. Otherwise yes, I think his responses were fine. Well i guess first point is opinion dependant then. However i wont accept that he's still presenting dropping the gif game as wifom scumplay. He also associated Exo with Foreman for absolutely no apparent reason and didn't touch that at all on his response which i noticed now.
Given that's his main reason for voting ExO, I must agree that is a rather poor reason to vote for someone given what's happened since then.
I'm aware that ExO has been MIA for most of that time. However his response to ExO's one post post-tunnel was this:
On November 03 2016 22:26 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 15:11 ExO_ wrote: I'm tired. I just got home. I don't feel like reading through the read. But I'll tell you my thoughts in a nutshell from the point I left.
I jumped on to Calix initially and continued to pressure him(her?) long after I thought she was scum. I do think the way he entered the thread was dumb and likely to inflame me. But his responses afterwards seemed very much from a towny perspective. I continued the pressure to see who would jump on the bandwagon with me in an attempt to press low hanging fruit.
I'll look at it tomorrow, but NeverUnlucky/foreman are both going to be the first people I look at. Even if you had an amazing reason to push Calix I'm not sure she ever qualifies as "low hanging fruit" I think Skynx is currently holding the low hanging fruit award.
...which doesn't seem very focused on determining ExO's alignment.
Are you referring to TT's theory of ExO/ Foreman as a scum team? Not sure if that means much since he said that he was feeling ambivalent on Foreman as of late if I recall properly.
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On November 04 2016 04:56 darthfoley wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2016 04:05 Calix wrote:On November 04 2016 04:02 darthfoley wrote: mahrgell rels scum team?! the plot thickens! I'm not sure I follow your point. Does mahrgell say "Rels disagreeing with me on XYZ reads is bad" and uses the "but he's controversial" part as a mitigating factor? I can kind of see an argument for "he's hedging on Rels" but I'm not sure if that was what you were implying. I'd appreciate some clarification on your thought process here So basically, mahrgell's top scum read is Foreman. It should be followed by Rels, if he were actually following his gameplan he laid out earlier. Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 06:49 mahrgell wrote:On November 03 2016 06:17 Foreman wrote: I'd like to see some reads with original content from mahrgell. How many you need? You obviously ignored all my posts about yourself. But let's summarize and update: Looking at your entire post history, I try to figure out how you managed to come to the conclusion you have. If you have no information about the game, you should have seen the same as me. And yet somehow you managed to take another turn at pretty much every point in the game. So far all your actions have been about the opposite of what I would expect from someone who saw the same as I did, with the same information I have. (none).1) you see the Calix vs Exo_ interaction and for weird reasons tunnel down on Calix. Was she(it seems like Calix is a she?) pushing Exo? I don't think so. If she was, I agree it was pointless, but well... Day1. You were sure she was pushing Exo. Okay... Happy tunneling. 2) so you chase after people for having the antitown-proscum conversation, just to push that conversation further. If it was in your interest to remove this discussion from the thread to steer the game in a more town friendly direction, you should probably not try to last word in that conversation. 3) Next Calix asks you about NU. Instead of answering, you refuse to answer at all, because you consider Calix scum. I believe enough people pointed out at this point that this is pretty anti-town. Considering you being worried about the town atmosphere before, this is rather ironic. 4) I ask you about NU too. You dismiss it as parroting. Besides the fact that I consider it not parroting, but admit, that my critique on NU was very similar to Calix (earlier, not her latest) posts, let's for a moment assume it was parroting. At this point you claimed to scumlean Calix, but didn't say anything about me. If I were a townie, and see someone else parrot a person I consider scum... I for sure as hell would do my best to get this person to stop sheeping a scummie. Either you turn on me right away, or you try to get me away from her. Instead you just dismissed me. If I was sheeping Calix and you considered her scum, you willingly gave her an additional vote. 5) Your general contribution to this thread has never been in the interest of improving the atmosphere. In none of the mentioned points have you ever tried for a constructive conversation. And your latest responses to NU weren't better either. Not sure if it was in this thread or in the other one, but when you asked about the TL meta someone (NU?) answered: "Be wrong and a dick about it" This is exactly what I see you doing here. I guess you earned it ##Vote Foreman The bolded is exactly why he should be scum leaning Rels. Rels vs. Mahrgell reads are 100% different, yet mahrgell feels the need to say that "it's weird that Rels thinks 100% opposite of me, but hey let's give him the benefit of the doubt and let him explain himself before i lean him one way or another!!!" this was not the same way he dealt with Foreman. It is fine to say, "i'm scum leaning Rels for now, cuz his reads are so wack-- but I'll hear him out." He doesn't say this; he says a null tell on someone, who by his logic, should not be null. It would be less sus if this was in the first few hours of the game, but we've been in D1 for over 24 hours, so Rels (according to mahrgell's logic) should be starting to view the game in the same way.
A compelling point.
I can see where the argument of "he's biased towards Rels" is coming from with that Foreman post in mind. He was much more punitive towards Foreman than Rels and I'd argue that Rels' filter is considerably worse than Foreman's.
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On November 04 2016 04:58 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2016 04:44 Calix wrote: I maintain that Rels is a good lynch to be honest.
TT seems to have arrived, however. Let's see if he blows me away with some super-townie posts or whatever. Nope. Show nested quote +On November 04 2016 04:46 Calix wrote: I'd like TT to clarify his reads on ExO and Skynx, especially with reference to that "attention-seeking" thing. I found that hard to follow. Ok. Skynx's early posts: + Show Spoiler +On November 03 2016 04:12 Skynx wrote: Man you guys are way too fun to read On November 03 2016 04:50 Skynx wrote: None of what happened so far is AI guys please... On November 03 2016 04:54 Skynx wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 04:53 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 04:50 Skynx wrote: None of what happened so far is AI guys please... Then do something that will make AI posts happen. What is the point of sitting around and complaining that people are making early reads exactly? What is the point of spamming bunch of stuff that doesn't have anything to do with anything other than increasing postcount for people that are not here yet? Exo's: + Show Spoiler +On November 03 2016 03:02 ExO_ wrote: I'm VT lame Not including the Gif post On November 03 2016 03:11 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 03:08 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 03:06 ExO_ wrote:On November 03 2016 03:04 Calix wrote: NU's boring. Nothing new to see there.
ExO, should I be asking why you're not 'largely communicating in gifs'? Don't get me wrong, I'm glad you're not, but I'm curious as to what made you change your mind. So if you ARE mainly communicating in gifs then why claim a role first thing before doing that? Seems illogical for town to do. You think it's illogical for me to immediate claim VT before posting a gif? Give me a break. If anything your attempt to get me to revert to gif posting only and now trying to throw shade on me is indicative of your scum alignment On November 03 2016 03:15 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 03:12 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 03:11 ExO_ wrote:On November 03 2016 03:08 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 03:06 ExO_ wrote:On November 03 2016 03:04 Calix wrote: NU's boring. Nothing new to see there.
ExO, should I be asking why you're not 'largely communicating in gifs'? Don't get me wrong, I'm glad you're not, but I'm curious as to what made you change your mind. So if you ARE mainly communicating in gifs then why claim a role first thing before doing that? Seems illogical for town to do. You think it's illogical for me to immediate claim VT before posting a gif? Give me a break. If anything your attempt to get me to revert to gif posting only and now trying to throw shade on me is indicative of your scum alignment Please point me to where I 'attempted to get you to revert to gif posting only' if you'd be so kind. You'll note that I specifically said 'I'm glad you are not posting in gifs' (which you then responded to...with a gif...instead of a response) And yes, it's illogical for town to claim a role and then post a gif in lieu of a coherent response. If you were actually happy I wasn't posting gifs, why would you bring up the fact that I said I would post primarily gifs? I think any reasonable person realizes that's much more likely to get me to post gifs, than to offer an explanation that will ultimately be irrelevant to the game. You brought it up in the hopes that I would stick to my word and posts only gifs, instead of helping town. You are scum ##vote Calix Skynx starts off complaining, and when called out responds with similar attitude. Exo claims, makes a gif post, then gets all defensive and aggressive about your questions. Takes that into a serious mode by turning it into a case on you. Skynx continued his bad posting even after getting called out. Exo immediately got upset you called out his not posting gifs and got super defensive about it. I'm amazed you guys even try to draw a comparison here, there is a very clear difference in their opening play.
Okay. I just wanted to know where you stood with both of them side-by-side. While your ExO read was transparent as day, I wasn't following you with your Skynx read, so thanks for the clarification.
I don't think ExO being defensive is scummy although yes, his case and tunnel against me was bad. It can also be coming from the POV of an overzealous townie. I believe that he's tunneled before as town, no?
However I'm having a hard time thinking that given that he just popped in to slap the third vote on your train and didn't even explain himself until I asked -_-
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On November 04 2016 05:04 Tictock wrote: Actually didn't someone mention that Skynx said he tries to open scummy to see who goes after him?
If that's true then I have to throw out my line of thought about his early game. Clearly scum!Skynx would try to replicate that type of play from his towngames.
Eh?
Your first line is correct. Skynx claims that he acts scummy to see who goes for the low-hanging fruit as a town tactic.
Your conclusion is making me scratch my head. I don't see how learning about Skynx' play-style -> thinking he'd replicate it as scum -> entrance posts are null.
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On November 04 2016 05:16 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2016 05:06 Calix wrote: I don't think ExO being defensive is scummy although yes, his case and tunnel against me was bad. It can also be coming from the POV of an overzealous townie. I believe that he's tunneled before as town, no?
However I'm having a hard time thinking that given that he just popped in to slap the third vote on your train and didn't even explain himself until I asked -_- I really do think Exo should be the lynch today. Seems way too likely that he is scum to me, but hey even if he isn't we can see he isn't adding anything to the game and is only VT so not a bad lynch right? + Show Spoiler +Kinda joking there... kinda... I might even try and write another case about him later if I feel like it. Also I might cry a little if I get mislynched D1 two games in a row...
I wouldn't say that Rels added anything new to the game either. He hasn't claimed VT but I think your argument is applicable to him as well.
Meanwhile ExO was the reason that the game kicked off the way that it did with how he reacted.
If you're town and you get mislynched on D1 yet again, that would be hilarious.
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On November 04 2016 05:23 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2016 05:09 Calix wrote:On November 04 2016 05:04 Tictock wrote: Actually didn't someone mention that Skynx said he tries to open scummy to see who goes after him?
If that's true then I have to throw out my line of thought about his early game. Clearly scum!Skynx would try to replicate that type of play from his towngames. Eh? Your first line is correct. Skynx claims that he acts scummy to see who goes for the low-hanging fruit as a town tactic. Your conclusion is making me scratch my head. I don't see how learning about Skynx' play-style -> thinking he'd replicate it as scum -> entrance posts are null. Because I was giving his early posts a townlean because he was drawing attn to himself and scum tend to not want to do that. However if Skynx has an established meta (and more importantly is self aware of it) of playing scummy at the start of the game to draw attention then my initial thinking no longer applies. Scum!skynx would go out of his way to act scummy at the start simply to replicate that aspect of his townplay. And thinking about it more this was it would make Skynx's early posts make more sense if he is scum trying to replicate his bad start of day play. Stuff like calling the entire early game NAI, and complaining about reading constantly make a bit more sense coming from scum trolling than town trolling. However this is prob a line of thought that only makes sense to me.
Wouldn't his early posts draw attention to themselves anyway? He was called out as a whiny bitch and got some scum-reads (the attention) and then he stepped it up. (the reaction)
I don't see how Skynx being self-aware of his meta detracts from the fact that his posts would grab attention or from the fact that his reaction was - in my eyes - townie.
(also I know that he's busy with uni so I don't think him going "emergerd so much to read" is AI)
So yes, your last paragraph is moon-logic at best, doubt-casting at worst.
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On November 04 2016 05:27 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2016 05:19 Calix wrote:On November 04 2016 05:16 Tictock wrote:On November 04 2016 05:06 Calix wrote: I don't think ExO being defensive is scummy although yes, his case and tunnel against me was bad. It can also be coming from the POV of an overzealous townie. I believe that he's tunneled before as town, no?
However I'm having a hard time thinking that given that he just popped in to slap the third vote on your train and didn't even explain himself until I asked -_- I really do think Exo should be the lynch today. Seems way too likely that he is scum to me, but hey even if he isn't we can see he isn't adding anything to the game and is only VT so not a bad lynch right? + Show Spoiler +Kinda joking there... kinda... I might even try and write another case about him later if I feel like it. Also I might cry a little if I get mislynched D1 two games in a row... I wouldn't say that Rels added anything new to the game either. He hasn't claimed VT but I think your argument is applicable to him as well. Meanwhile ExO was the reason that the game kicked off the way that it did with how he reacted. If you're town and you get mislynched on D1 yet again, that would be hilarious. Nah, I stand by what I said about Rels. His posts seem like he is just adding what thoughts he has to the game, not posting stuff to try and look good. Why do you seem to want to TR Exo so bad?
Are you implying that ExO/ Calix is a possible scum team? If not, why ask the question?
That's also an ignorant question to ask to begin with. I initially town-read ExO and have recently expressed doubts about that given his sub-par posting...which were in the posts that you responded to.
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On November 04 2016 05:31 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2016 05:30 Calix wrote:On November 04 2016 05:27 Tictock wrote:On November 04 2016 05:19 Calix wrote:On November 04 2016 05:16 Tictock wrote:On November 04 2016 05:06 Calix wrote: I don't think ExO being defensive is scummy although yes, his case and tunnel against me was bad. It can also be coming from the POV of an overzealous townie. I believe that he's tunneled before as town, no?
However I'm having a hard time thinking that given that he just popped in to slap the third vote on your train and didn't even explain himself until I asked -_- I really do think Exo should be the lynch today. Seems way too likely that he is scum to me, but hey even if he isn't we can see he isn't adding anything to the game and is only VT so not a bad lynch right? + Show Spoiler +Kinda joking there... kinda... I might even try and write another case about him later if I feel like it. Also I might cry a little if I get mislynched D1 two games in a row... I wouldn't say that Rels added anything new to the game either. He hasn't claimed VT but I think your argument is applicable to him as well. Meanwhile ExO was the reason that the game kicked off the way that it did with how he reacted. If you're town and you get mislynched on D1 yet again, that would be hilarious. Nah, I stand by what I said about Rels. His posts seem like he is just adding what thoughts he has to the game, not posting stuff to try and look good. Why do you seem to want to TR Exo so bad? Are you implying that ExO/ Calix is a possible scum team? If not, why ask the question? That's also an ignorant question to ask to begin with. I initially town-read ExO and have recently expressed doubts about that given his sub-par posting... which were in the posts that you responded to. Your town reading of me doesn't necessarily have to be attached to both of us being scum. It could be only you being scum
That doesn't override my point where I provide evidence countering his "Calix is trying too hard to town-read ExO" implication.
Go and do something useful please. You just voted for TT yet you are not helping question him. What gives?
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Foreman, can you give your thoughts on Skynx' wall-posts?
As for ExO, I missed #600. I'm not sure I agree. He says "I think ExO is scum but if he isn't then he's only a VT and is useless so he can die"
He thinks you're scum, ergo you're lying about being VT. All he does is rule out the possibility of you being TPR. I don't see inconsistency here.
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On November 04 2016 05:42 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2016 05:30 Calix wrote:On November 04 2016 05:27 Tictock wrote:On November 04 2016 05:19 Calix wrote:On November 04 2016 05:16 Tictock wrote:On November 04 2016 05:06 Calix wrote: I don't think ExO being defensive is scummy although yes, his case and tunnel against me was bad. It can also be coming from the POV of an overzealous townie. I believe that he's tunneled before as town, no?
However I'm having a hard time thinking that given that he just popped in to slap the third vote on your train and didn't even explain himself until I asked -_- I really do think Exo should be the lynch today. Seems way too likely that he is scum to me, but hey even if he isn't we can see he isn't adding anything to the game and is only VT so not a bad lynch right? + Show Spoiler +Kinda joking there... kinda... I might even try and write another case about him later if I feel like it. Also I might cry a little if I get mislynched D1 two games in a row... I wouldn't say that Rels added anything new to the game either. He hasn't claimed VT but I think your argument is applicable to him as well. Meanwhile ExO was the reason that the game kicked off the way that it did with how he reacted. If you're town and you get mislynched on D1 yet again, that would be hilarious. Nah, I stand by what I said about Rels. His posts seem like he is just adding what thoughts he has to the game, not posting stuff to try and look good. Why do you seem to want to TR Exo so bad? Are you implying that ExO/ Calix is a possible scum team? If not, why ask the question? That's also an ignorant question to ask to begin with. I initially town-read ExO and have recently expressed doubts about that given his sub-par posting... which were in the posts that you responded to. I know you started to change your mind, and no I don't really think you two are on a team. Neither of those points matter, I just wanted to know what had you thinking Exo was town before. I actually do read and usually double check stuff before I ask questions you know.
Because I think his defensiveness/ role claim/ tunneling are anti-town behaviours. I don't see a compelling scum narrative for enacting such behaviours.
The only one which I can see for ExO is: scum!ExO sees Calix's question -> scum!ExO thinks that he can use the question to spin a scum narrative on Calix -> scum!ExO goes hard on Calix in hopes of starting a bandwagon -> scum!ExO goes in too deep and gets a shitload of unwanted attention on him -> scum!ExO retires from the thread until attention goes away before he retracts his Calix scum-read.
I feel like the townie explanation is a bit simpler though.
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On November 04 2016 05:44 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2016 05:41 Calix wrote: Foreman, can you give your thoughts on Skynx' wall-posts?
As for ExO, I missed #600. I'm not sure I agree. He says "I think ExO is scum but if he isn't then he's only a VT and is useless so he can die"
He thinks you're scum, ergo you're lying about being VT. All he does is rule out the possibility of you being TPR. I don't see inconsistency here. Or I'm lying about being VT to get scum to not mess with me on day 1. However look at the way he posts. He knows I'm only VT. You need to learn to read between the lines. Mafia are never going to come into the thread and announce they are mafia
How would scum!TT know that you, the town!ExO, is telling the truth and that you're not a TPR exactly? I don't follow the "he knows I'm only VT" part.
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On November 04 2016 05:53 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2016 05:49 Calix wrote:On November 04 2016 05:44 ExO_ wrote:On November 04 2016 05:41 Calix wrote: Foreman, can you give your thoughts on Skynx' wall-posts?
As for ExO, I missed #600. I'm not sure I agree. He says "I think ExO is scum but if he isn't then he's only a VT and is useless so he can die"
He thinks you're scum, ergo you're lying about being VT. All he does is rule out the possibility of you being TPR. I don't see inconsistency here. Or I'm lying about being VT to get scum to not mess with me on day 1. However look at the way he posts. He knows I'm only VT. You need to learn to read between the lines. Mafia are never going to come into the thread and announce they are mafia How would scum!TT know that you, the town!ExO, is telling the truth and that you're not a TPR exactly? I don't follow the "he knows I'm only VT" part. He wouldn't. However, he would had no problem killing me if he's scum (especially if he's scum and suspect I'm a power role). Does this make sense to you or do I need to break it down entirely?
ELI5
I'm running into a problem that is rare for me - I have way too many town-reads. Needless to say, I'm having a hard time here.
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On November 04 2016 05:55 ExO_ wrote: Just to make sure you don't misunderstand, I'm implying he claims that lynching me is okay because he thinks I'm either scum or if I'm not I'm just VT.
That's scum logic. He's saying that because he believes it, but because he thinks it'll be easy to get town to vote for me.
I understand now. You think that he thinks you're a good target for a mislynch in this scenario because he thinks that there's no risk of you claiming TPR and thus the lynch won't get diverted.
I can see where you're coming from. What did you make of his response to it?
On November 04 2016 05:56 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2016 05:48 Calix wrote:On November 04 2016 05:42 Tictock wrote:On November 04 2016 05:30 Calix wrote:On November 04 2016 05:27 Tictock wrote:On November 04 2016 05:19 Calix wrote:On November 04 2016 05:16 Tictock wrote:On November 04 2016 05:06 Calix wrote: I don't think ExO being defensive is scummy although yes, his case and tunnel against me was bad. It can also be coming from the POV of an overzealous townie. I believe that he's tunneled before as town, no?
However I'm having a hard time thinking that given that he just popped in to slap the third vote on your train and didn't even explain himself until I asked -_- I really do think Exo should be the lynch today. Seems way too likely that he is scum to me, but hey even if he isn't we can see he isn't adding anything to the game and is only VT so not a bad lynch right? + Show Spoiler +Kinda joking there... kinda... I might even try and write another case about him later if I feel like it. Also I might cry a little if I get mislynched D1 two games in a row... I wouldn't say that Rels added anything new to the game either. He hasn't claimed VT but I think your argument is applicable to him as well. Meanwhile ExO was the reason that the game kicked off the way that it did with how he reacted. If you're town and you get mislynched on D1 yet again, that would be hilarious. Nah, I stand by what I said about Rels. His posts seem like he is just adding what thoughts he has to the game, not posting stuff to try and look good. Why do you seem to want to TR Exo so bad? Are you implying that ExO/ Calix is a possible scum team? If not, why ask the question? That's also an ignorant question to ask to begin with. I initially town-read ExO and have recently expressed doubts about that given his sub-par posting... which were in the posts that you responded to. I know you started to change your mind, and no I don't really think you two are on a team. Neither of those points matter, I just wanted to know what had you thinking Exo was town before. I actually do read and usually double check stuff before I ask questions you know. Because I think his defensiveness/ role claim/ tunneling are anti-town behaviours. I don't see a compelling scum narrative for enacting such behaviours. The only one which I can see for ExO is: scum!ExO sees Calix's question -> scum!ExO thinks that he can use the question to spin a scum narrative on Calix -> scum!ExO goes hard on Calix in hopes of starting a bandwagon -> scum!ExO goes in too deep and gets a shitload of unwanted attention on him -> scum!ExO retires from the thread until attention goes away before he retracts his Calix scum-read. I feel like the townie explanation is a bit simpler though. I'm seeing it more like he rolled scum after just getting out of a game as scum so drops his gif plan and instead claims VT. You start questioning him him about it and he can't think of a good explanation. So instead he fakes some OMGUS and makes up some BS about you trying to get him to post gifs. Later he backs off this push claiming it was for reactions (but never followed through with that) and then decides to sheep skynx's case. I'm really not seeing the town narrative, hence why I think he is scum.
But how hard is it to just say something like "oh I was joking" or "I wanted to play the game properly" or something? Maybe I'm just assuming that ExO is as amazingly intelligent as I am, but that doesn't seem like a stretch for scum.
His later behaviour is more concerning to me. I don't really like it and the point which I found the most interesting from him is something that you claim was a joke. (I think)
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On November 04 2016 06:02 Foreman wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2016 05:41 Calix wrote: Foreman, can you give your thoughts on Skynx' wall-posts?
As for ExO, I missed #600. I'm not sure I agree. He says "I think ExO is scum but if he isn't then he's only a VT and is useless so he can die"
He thinks you're scum, ergo you're lying about being VT. All he does is rule out the possibility of you being TPR. I don't see inconsistency here. His wall posts don't line up with the mindset of somebody that considers themselves low hanging fruit.
Huh?
Saying "I'm low-hanging fruit" doesn't exclude someone from making wall-posts later on. Not sure I get you.
On November 04 2016 06:02 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2016 06:01 Calix wrote:On November 04 2016 05:55 ExO_ wrote: Just to make sure you don't misunderstand, I'm implying he claims that lynching me is okay because he thinks I'm either scum or if I'm not I'm just VT.
That's scum logic. He's saying that because he believes it, but because he thinks it'll be easy to get town to vote for me. I understand now. You think that he thinks you're a good target for a mislynch in this scenario because he thinks that there's no risk of you claiming TPR and thus the lynch won't get diverted. I can see where you're coming from. What did you make of his response to it? On November 04 2016 05:56 Tictock wrote:On November 04 2016 05:48 Calix wrote:On November 04 2016 05:42 Tictock wrote:On November 04 2016 05:30 Calix wrote:On November 04 2016 05:27 Tictock wrote:On November 04 2016 05:19 Calix wrote:On November 04 2016 05:16 Tictock wrote:On November 04 2016 05:06 Calix wrote: I don't think ExO being defensive is scummy although yes, his case and tunnel against me was bad. It can also be coming from the POV of an overzealous townie. I believe that he's tunneled before as town, no?
However I'm having a hard time thinking that given that he just popped in to slap the third vote on your train and didn't even explain himself until I asked -_- I really do think Exo should be the lynch today. Seems way too likely that he is scum to me, but hey even if he isn't we can see he isn't adding anything to the game and is only VT so not a bad lynch right? + Show Spoiler +Kinda joking there... kinda... I might even try and write another case about him later if I feel like it. Also I might cry a little if I get mislynched D1 two games in a row... I wouldn't say that Rels added anything new to the game either. He hasn't claimed VT but I think your argument is applicable to him as well. Meanwhile ExO was the reason that the game kicked off the way that it did with how he reacted. If you're town and you get mislynched on D1 yet again, that would be hilarious. Nah, I stand by what I said about Rels. His posts seem like he is just adding what thoughts he has to the game, not posting stuff to try and look good. Why do you seem to want to TR Exo so bad? Are you implying that ExO/ Calix is a possible scum team? If not, why ask the question? That's also an ignorant question to ask to begin with. I initially town-read ExO and have recently expressed doubts about that given his sub-par posting... which were in the posts that you responded to. I know you started to change your mind, and no I don't really think you two are on a team. Neither of those points matter, I just wanted to know what had you thinking Exo was town before. I actually do read and usually double check stuff before I ask questions you know. Because I think his defensiveness/ role claim/ tunneling are anti-town behaviours. I don't see a compelling scum narrative for enacting such behaviours. The only one which I can see for ExO is: scum!ExO sees Calix's question -> scum!ExO thinks that he can use the question to spin a scum narrative on Calix -> scum!ExO goes hard on Calix in hopes of starting a bandwagon -> scum!ExO goes in too deep and gets a shitload of unwanted attention on him -> scum!ExO retires from the thread until attention goes away before he retracts his Calix scum-read. I feel like the townie explanation is a bit simpler though. I'm seeing it more like he rolled scum after just getting out of a game as scum so drops his gif plan and instead claims VT. You start questioning him him about it and he can't think of a good explanation. So instead he fakes some OMGUS and makes up some BS about you trying to get him to post gifs. Later he backs off this push claiming it was for reactions (but never followed through with that) and then decides to sheep skynx's case. I'm really not seeing the town narrative, hence why I think he is scum. But how hard is it to just say something like "oh I was joking" or "I wanted to play the game properly" or something? Maybe I'm just assuming that ExO is as amazingly intelligent as I am, but that doesn't seem like a stretch for scum. His later behaviour is more concerning to me. I don't really like it and the point which I found the most interesting from him is something that you claim was a joke. (I think) what am I claiming was a joke?
No, I said that TT claimed that he was messing around, I'm pretty sure. Last page?
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On November 04 2016 06:06 Skynx wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2016 05:09 Calix wrote:On November 04 2016 05:04 Tictock wrote: Actually didn't someone mention that Skynx said he tries to open scummy to see who goes after him?
If that's true then I have to throw out my line of thought about his early game. Clearly scum!Skynx would try to replicate that type of play from his towngames. Eh? Your first line is correct. Skynx claims that he acts scummy to see who goes for the low-hanging fruit as a town tactic. Your conclusion is making me scratch my head. I don't see how learning about Skynx' play-style -> thinking he'd replicate it as scum -> entrance posts are null. Thats not what i meant with that...
I'm not referring to your response to Foreman with that post. I'm referring to our TPR chat in HM 3. Just to clarify.
Unless I totally misinterpreted your posting there.
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On November 04 2016 06:09 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2016 06:01 Calix wrote: But how hard is it to just say something like "oh I was joking" or "I wanted to play the game properly" or something? Maybe I'm just assuming that ExO is as amazingly intelligent as I am, but that doesn't seem like a stretch for scum.
His later behaviour is more concerning to me. I don't really like it and the point which I found the most interesting from him is something that you claim was a joke. (I think) Thats actually kinda my point, town!Exo could have said the same things, or started posting gifs to joke around. What did we see? Him getting butthurt that you called him out for not posting Gifs and attacking you for it.
I feel like this is going around in circles. It's clear that you think that's a scummy reaction from ExO and I disagree. I think we should move on since this thread is blowing up.
Thoughts on Foreman? I'm still thinking this could be TvT and thus I find him sitting in the background to be conspicuous.
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On November 04 2016 06:23 Foreman wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2016 06:12 Calix wrote:On November 04 2016 06:09 Tictock wrote:On November 04 2016 06:01 Calix wrote: But how hard is it to just say something like "oh I was joking" or "I wanted to play the game properly" or something? Maybe I'm just assuming that ExO is as amazingly intelligent as I am, but that doesn't seem like a stretch for scum.
His later behaviour is more concerning to me. I don't really like it and the point which I found the most interesting from him is something that you claim was a joke. (I think) Thats actually kinda my point, town!Exo could have said the same things, or started posting gifs to joke around. What did we see? Him getting butthurt that you called him out for not posting Gifs and attacking you for it. I feel like this is going around in circles. It's clear that you think that's a scummy reaction from ExO and I disagree. I think we should move on since this thread is blowing up. Thoughts on Foreman? I'm still thinking this could be TvT and thus I find him sitting in the background to be conspicuous. I go a few hours without posting because I have shit to do and I'm sitting in the background? Lulz.
Well in my opinion, you weren't posting a lot. Fine by itself.
But you were just talking about stuff which wasn't related to the main discussion at hand until recently. That stood out to me especially because I think it's two townies fighting.
Thus someone ignoring it looks weird and like they don't want to take a side in it since either of them being lynched helps scum.
So yes, my logic is pretty good, I'd say.
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I am not convinced that Rels is town. I don't think he's posted anything that's out of his scum range.
But I can't say with a straight face that I think he's scum either. I just think that everyone else is townier than he is and thus he's more likely to be scum. Therefore he is the best vote.
Sadly I can't convince anyone with that logic because that requires everyone else to town-read people like I am doing and that's not happening.
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On November 04 2016 06:35 ExO_ wrote: I'm sure I missed this earlier and I don't wanna sound offensive at all, but Calix are you a man or a woman? So I can use he or she appropriately
Female.
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Also it's hard because making arguments for why someone is town is more difficult than explaining why they are scum so I can't go around and wow people with compelling townie narratives either. I'm notoriously bad at that anyway - I can still remember my flailing around TT/ Palmar when they were wagoned -_-
So yeah, fuck me with a broomstick. I don't know what to do.
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On November 04 2016 06:37 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2016 06:36 NeverUnlucky wrote:On November 04 2016 06:34 ExO_ wrote:On November 04 2016 06:32 NeverUnlucky wrote:On November 04 2016 06:30 ExO_ wrote:On November 04 2016 06:27 NeverUnlucky wrote:On November 04 2016 06:11 ExO_ wrote:On November 04 2016 06:09 Tictock wrote:On November 04 2016 06:01 Calix wrote: But how hard is it to just say something like "oh I was joking" or "I wanted to play the game properly" or something? Maybe I'm just assuming that ExO is as amazingly intelligent as I am, but that doesn't seem like a stretch for scum.
His later behaviour is more concerning to me. I don't really like it and the point which I found the most interesting from him is something that you claim was a joke. (I think) Thats actually kinda my point, town!Exo could have said the same things, or started posting gifs to joke around. What did we see? Him getting butthurt that you called him out for not posting Gifs and attacking you for it. Starting a discussion is EXACTLY what town wants to do. And its exactly what I did. Implying that I wouldn't do that is town is at best misleading. What I did drew a lot of attention to me, you really think thats what I would do as scum? Instead of posting a few gifs and joking around a bit? please. Lynch TT its so obvious at this point On October 31 2016 09:24 NeverUnlucky wrote: Sure. c: One more /in.
This is what is going to happen this game:
1. I will roll town. 2. Game starts; unoriginal players'll say "First confirmed town!" 3. One town will have a weird or even scummy entry. 4. Calix will tunnel said player. NeverUnlucky will have a good read on Calix based on the tunnel. 5. Said town will claim that the intent behind his entry was to stir up conversation. 6. Everyone will mock him and some will town-read him. 7. Active players’ll shitpost, lurkers’ll lurk. 8. One player will case another player who’ll become the main wagon, but the case is weak, thus : 9. People will initiate a CFD at EoD, and a town will die.
1 to 7, check. 8 and 9 to go. Calix hasn't tunneled anyone. You're full of shit Who's not reading the game now? Are you serious? lol. Show me where Calix is tunneling, and not actively considering all reads and possibilities. Give me a break Pointless argument, dismissed. If you're going to acuse Calix of tunneling, you better be able to back it up. Calix you Town reading NU? because if you're scum reading him I think he might be a decent lynch today
I think that he's town because of how toxic he was. If he's doing that as scum then I'll lose the last scrap of respect I ever had for him because he was way out of line there.
If you have an argument for him being mafia then I would like to hear it.
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On November 04 2016 06:12 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2016 01:39 NeverUnlucky wrote:for rels Well, this quote isn't as good as I remembered it to be. There are certain points which I still like, others make me uncertain. On November 03 2016 05:30 darthfoley wrote: Had a read through, albeit quick because I won't be on later until like 7pm and don't want to read through 40 pages in one sitting.
I agree that a lot of the stuff so far is NAI. I think ExO vs. Calix could be TvT and was blown out of proportion based off a gif. Why does he think it could be tvt if most of the stuff is NAI? Also, saying that the Exo - Calix thingy was based off a gif is a mischaracterization of what happened I think. However, I don't like this post. Who spends 4 lines discussing why the claimed VT? This is a super waste of a post.On November 03 2016 03:29 ExO_ wrote: Also to clarify why I'm claiming my VT role right now:
I'm getting it out the open right now. I think in a game this size trying to fake claim to get scum to target me would be a waste of time. So I'm letting everyone know now I don't have any abilities I cannot do anything at night and can only vote. You can choose to either believe me or not, but I'm telling the truth I don't like this post. This comes off as scummy scummy buddy buddy On November 03 2016 04:32 mahrgell wrote:gosh Calix, can we please stop post synced? Also after what I read from you last game I'm afraid of myself, if I share your thoughts... I don't want to be like you Sorry. I also don't think the theoretical discussion of anti-town vs. pro-scum has much use if it's kept theoretical. Mind meld. Foreman completely writing off Calix basically because of one push is helping town at all. Seems like uber tunneling that never actually helps town. Don't see any post so far that screams scum SO hard that I wouldn't entertain the possibility that my read on someone was wrong. Seems a bit scummy to me, especially D1. I agree with Skynx that the votes so far have been really dumb and useless drama Foreman did not write off Calix ._. He says that his reads could be wrong, but never stated his reads prior to this... zzz Obviously no post will scream scum. Calix is a slight town read to me currently. I agreed that Skynx's posts were useless until he posted about the votes. Bruh, that post he's referring to is Skynx saying "These posts are shit" and quotes Foreman and ExO's votes on Calix. How is that useful? How does he go from agreeing with Skynx in the previous paragraph to saying that his posts are useless? I'll be back in about three hours, keep posting away I can see why you hated it. Yeah that post was awful. And I don't understand why the fixation on Skynx on this post. He was mentioned three times: "I agree that a lot of the stuff so far is NAI" (Skynx was the one saying that) "I agree with Skynx that the votes so far have been really dumb and useless drama" "I agreed that Skynx's posts were useless until he posted about the votes."
This is more directed at your next post, but I don't understand your argument. I'm assuming that you're talking about this, right?
I agree with Skynx that the votes so far have been really dumb and useless drama
Calix is a slight town read to me currently. I agreed that Skynx's posts were useless until he posted about the votes.
I don't see the incongruency. Isn't he basically saying "Skynx was useless until he posted about the votes and I agree with him that the votes are dumb and useless"?
Now that I've written it out like that, that's a pretty weird thing to say since it doesn't say much at all and the way it's worded makes it sound like he slight-town-read me because I agreed that Skynx was useless.
But I don't think it's inconsistent.
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On November 04 2016 07:05 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2016 07:00 Calix wrote:On November 04 2016 06:12 Rels wrote:On November 04 2016 01:39 NeverUnlucky wrote:for rels Well, this quote isn't as good as I remembered it to be. There are certain points which I still like, others make me uncertain. On November 03 2016 05:30 darthfoley wrote: Had a read through, albeit quick because I won't be on later until like 7pm and don't want to read through 40 pages in one sitting.
I agree that a lot of the stuff so far is NAI. I think ExO vs. Calix could be TvT and was blown out of proportion based off a gif. Why does he think it could be tvt if most of the stuff is NAI? Also, saying that the Exo - Calix thingy was based off a gif is a mischaracterization of what happened I think. However, I don't like this post. Who spends 4 lines discussing why the claimed VT? This is a super waste of a post.On November 03 2016 03:29 ExO_ wrote: Also to clarify why I'm claiming my VT role right now:
I'm getting it out the open right now. I think in a game this size trying to fake claim to get scum to target me would be a waste of time. So I'm letting everyone know now I don't have any abilities I cannot do anything at night and can only vote. You can choose to either believe me or not, but I'm telling the truth I don't like this post. This comes off as scummy scummy buddy buddy On November 03 2016 04:32 mahrgell wrote:gosh Calix, can we please stop post synced? Also after what I read from you last game I'm afraid of myself, if I share your thoughts... I don't want to be like you Sorry. I also don't think the theoretical discussion of anti-town vs. pro-scum has much use if it's kept theoretical. Mind meld. Foreman completely writing off Calix basically because of one push is helping town at all. Seems like uber tunneling that never actually helps town. Don't see any post so far that screams scum SO hard that I wouldn't entertain the possibility that my read on someone was wrong. Seems a bit scummy to me, especially D1. I agree with Skynx that the votes so far have been really dumb and useless drama Foreman did not write off Calix ._. He says that his reads could be wrong, but never stated his reads prior to this... zzz Obviously no post will scream scum. Calix is a slight town read to me currently. I agreed that Skynx's posts were useless until he posted about the votes. Bruh, that post he's referring to is Skynx saying "These posts are shit" and quotes Foreman and ExO's votes on Calix. How is that useful? How does he go from agreeing with Skynx in the previous paragraph to saying that his posts are useless? I'll be back in about three hours, keep posting away I can see why you hated it. Yeah that post was awful. And I don't understand why the fixation on Skynx on this post. He was mentioned three times: "I agree that a lot of the stuff so far is NAI" (Skynx was the one saying that) "I agree with Skynx that the votes so far have been really dumb and useless drama" "I agreed that Skynx's posts were useless until he posted about the votes." This is more directed at your next post, but I don't understand your argument. I'm assuming that you're talking about this, right? I agree with Skynx that the votes so far have been really dumb and useless drama
Calix is a slight town read to me currently. I agreed that Skynx's posts were useless until he posted about the votes. I don't see the incongruency. Isn't he basically saying "Skynx was useless until he posted about the votes and I agree with him that the votes are dumb and useless"? Now that I've written it out like that, that's a pretty weird thing to say since it doesn't say much at all and the way it's worded makes it sound like he slight-town-read me because I agreed that Skynx was useless. But I don't think it's inconsistent. Nope. He didn't say "Skynx was useless until he posted about the votes and I agree with him that the votes are dumb and useless" He said "Skynx said everything was NAI and I agree with him", then "I agree Skynx' psots were useless until that very last one about the votes". Basically he both agrees that these posts are useless but also agree with them: + Show Spoiler +On November 03 2016 04:12 Skynx wrote: Man you guys are way too fun to read On November 03 2016 04:50 Skynx wrote: None of what happened so far is AI guys please... On November 03 2016 04:54 Skynx wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 04:53 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 04:50 Skynx wrote: None of what happened so far is AI guys please... Then do something that will make AI posts happen. What is the point of sitting around and complaining that people are making early reads exactly? What is the point of spamming bunch of stuff that doesn't have anything to do with anything other than increasing postcount for people that are not here yet? On November 03 2016 04:58 Skynx wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 04:56 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 04:54 Skynx wrote:On November 03 2016 04:53 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 04:50 Skynx wrote: None of what happened so far is AI guys please... Then do something that will make AI posts happen. What is the point of sitting around and complaining that people are making early reads exactly? What is the point of spamming bunch of stuff that doesn't have anything to do with anything other than increasing postcount for people that are not here yet? To generate conversation so that the not-yet-here people have something constructive to add, of course. What is your strategy to find scum if we're doing a poor job of it? Add something constructive when i find opportunity to do so. Like I'm doing now, stopping you guys go overboard with surjective NAI stuff cuz it really means absolutely nothing what you guys accuse each other for in past few pages On November 03 2016 05:05 Skynx wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 05:00 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 04:58 Skynx wrote:On November 03 2016 04:56 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 04:54 Skynx wrote:On November 03 2016 04:53 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 04:50 Skynx wrote: None of what happened so far is AI guys please... Then do something that will make AI posts happen. What is the point of sitting around and complaining that people are making early reads exactly? What is the point of spamming bunch of stuff that doesn't have anything to do with anything other than increasing postcount for people that are not here yet? To generate conversation so that the not-yet-here people have something constructive to add, of course. What is your strategy to find scum if we're doing a poor job of it? Add something constructive when i find opportunity to do so. Like I'm doing now, stopping you guys go overboard with surjective NAI stuff cuz it really means absolutely nothing what you guys accuse each other for in past few pages Oh wonderful, that means that you can tell us how my case on NU doesn't show scum-indicative behaviour Do you have any reads at all? I'm skeptical that you have no initial impressions at all. Here is what happened; Calix sr Exo (gif stuff) Exo sr Calix (doesn't like his push) Everyone sr Everyone (because all pushes are very surjective and doesn't mean anything and everyone is aware of that so might aswell sr the others) What you are asking right now makes sense in that regard as me suggesting you guys pushing NAI stuff on eachother means I should also sr you guys but its just not right and this is all really nothing productive in the end. On November 03 2016 05:10 Skynx wrote: I mean I really dunno what to add here, its just NAI guys.
Can we talk about like flowers and butterflies? On November 03 2016 05:14 Skynx wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 05:10 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 05:05 Skynx wrote:On November 03 2016 05:00 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 04:58 Skynx wrote:On November 03 2016 04:56 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 04:54 Skynx wrote:On November 03 2016 04:53 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 04:50 Skynx wrote: None of what happened so far is AI guys please... Then do something that will make AI posts happen. What is the point of sitting around and complaining that people are making early reads exactly? What is the point of spamming bunch of stuff that doesn't have anything to do with anything other than increasing postcount for people that are not here yet? To generate conversation so that the not-yet-here people have something constructive to add, of course. What is your strategy to find scum if we're doing a poor job of it? Add something constructive when i find opportunity to do so. Like I'm doing now, stopping you guys go overboard with surjective NAI stuff cuz it really means absolutely nothing what you guys accuse each other for in past few pages Oh wonderful, that means that you can tell us how my case on NU doesn't show scum-indicative behaviour Do you have any reads at all? I'm skeptical that you have no initial impressions at all. Here is what happened; Calix sr Exo (gif stuff) Exo sr Calix (doesn't like his push) Everyone sr Everyone (because all pushes are very surjective and doesn't mean anything and everyone is aware of that so might aswell sr the others) What you are asking right now makes sense in that regard as me suggesting you guys pushing NAI stuff on eachother means I should also sr you guys but its just not right and this is all really nothing productive in the end. Fact-check. I never stated a scum-read on ExO. "all pushes are very subjective" - It's Day 1. Of course they are going to be 'subjective'. In fact, almost every single push in the history of mafia is 'subjective'. That doesn't mean you just do nothing since town has to be proactive to gain information, etc etc. This is all very obvious stuff so I won't drone on. With that in mind, your approach is very hard to understand to me. Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 03:08 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 03:06 ExO_ wrote:On November 03 2016 03:04 Calix wrote: NU's boring. Nothing new to see there.
ExO, should I be asking why you're not 'largely communicating in gifs'? Don't get me wrong, I'm glad you're not, but I'm curious as to what made you change your mind. So if you ARE mainly communicating in gifs then why claim a role first thing before doing that? Seems illogical for town to do. On November 03 2016 05:15 Skynx wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 05:11 Foreman wrote:On November 03 2016 05:05 Skynx wrote:On November 03 2016 05:00 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 04:58 Skynx wrote:On November 03 2016 04:56 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 04:54 Skynx wrote:On November 03 2016 04:53 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 04:50 Skynx wrote: None of what happened so far is AI guys please... Then do something that will make AI posts happen. What is the point of sitting around and complaining that people are making early reads exactly? What is the point of spamming bunch of stuff that doesn't have anything to do with anything other than increasing postcount for people that are not here yet? To generate conversation so that the not-yet-here people have something constructive to add, of course. What is your strategy to find scum if we're doing a poor job of it? Add something constructive when i find opportunity to do so. Like I'm doing now, stopping you guys go overboard with surjective NAI stuff cuz it really means absolutely nothing what you guys accuse each other for in past few pages Oh wonderful, that means that you can tell us how my case on NU doesn't show scum-indicative behaviour Do you have any reads at all? I'm skeptical that you have no initial impressions at all. Here is what happened; Calix sr Exo (gif stuff) Exo sr Calix (doesn't like his push) Everyone sr Everyone (because all pushes are very surjective and doesn't mean anything and everyone is aware of that so might aswell sr the others) What you are asking right now makes sense in that regard as me suggesting you guys pushing NAI stuff on eachother means I should also sr you guys but its just not right and this is all really nothing productive in the end. Here is what happened: Skynx entered thread Skynx complained about unproductive content Skynx provided unproductive content What you are doing right now is worse than anything you've complained about, because you should be of the mindset that providing even more unproductive content would only make our situation worse, given your remarks. Well, Calix is the one to make me explain how NAI stuff is NAI you can blame him for that if you really want to. I'm just here to drink milk and fuck bitches. The posta bout the votes is: + Show Spoiler +On November 03 2016 05:18 Skynx wrote:Bah fine; Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 03:19 Foreman wrote:On November 03 2016 03:08 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 03:06 ExO_ wrote:On November 03 2016 03:04 Calix wrote: NU's boring. Nothing new to see there.
ExO, should I be asking why you're not 'largely communicating in gifs'? Don't get me wrong, I'm glad you're not, but I'm curious as to what made you change your mind. So if you ARE mainly communicating in gifs then why claim a role first thing before doing that? Seems illogical for town to do. Way to overanalyze. So tryhard that it makes me think I should ##Vote Calix Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 03:15 ExO_ wrote:On November 03 2016 03:12 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 03:11 ExO_ wrote:On November 03 2016 03:08 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 03:06 ExO_ wrote:On November 03 2016 03:04 Calix wrote: NU's boring. Nothing new to see there.
ExO, should I be asking why you're not 'largely communicating in gifs'? Don't get me wrong, I'm glad you're not, but I'm curious as to what made you change your mind. So if you ARE mainly communicating in gifs then why claim a role first thing before doing that? Seems illogical for town to do. You think it's illogical for me to immediate claim VT before posting a gif? Give me a break. If anything your attempt to get me to revert to gif posting only and now trying to throw shade on me is indicative of your scum alignment Please point me to where I 'attempted to get you to revert to gif posting only' if you'd be so kind. You'll note that I specifically said 'I'm glad you are not posting in gifs' (which you then responded to...with a gif...instead of a response) And yes, it's illogical for town to claim a role and then post a gif in lieu of a coherent response. If you were actually happy I wasn't posting gifs, why would you bring up the fact that I said I would post primarily gifs? I think any reasonable person realizes that's much more likely to get me to post gifs, than to offer an explanation that will ultimately be irrelevant to the game. You brought it up in the hopes that I would stick to my word and posts only gifs, instead of helping town. You are scum ##vote Calix These are absolutely terrible votes.
Thank you for the context. I think I'm starting to see where you're coming from. Because in my opinion, those Skynx quotes said "oh everything is NAI/ useless" which DF seems to agree with but he only affirms his agreement for the vote post. And that shows that he didn't properly read Skynx' posts because otherwise he wouldn't call them useless.
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Not gonna lie, I have yet to send in a single MafiaMetric read.
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It's really pitiful that people associate me with NU.
AKA the dude who is so insecure and pathetic that he has to rely on 'mod confirms' and fucking school schedules to get town-read.
It's unacceptable that people actually think that we're on the same level.
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On November 04 2016 07:21 NeverUnlucky wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2016 07:18 Calix wrote: It's really pitiful that people associate me with NU.
AKA the dude who is so insecure and pathetic that he has to rely on 'mod confirms' and fucking school schedules to get town-read.
It's unacceptable that people actually think that we're on the same level. Yet you town-read me for other reasons. Hence I don't rely on these two factors. What does this post do other than try to piss me off when I am actively trying not to be toxic?
Ah yes, because throwing a temper tantrum is really why you want people to town-read you.
Want to know why I made that post? To distance myself from you. Because people link us two together and your mod-confirm post just reminded me how much of an insult to me that is.
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I would like to see a definitive conclusion on mahrgell's read on Rels as I have yet to see one.
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mahrgell, there was that discussion by Rels about DF's first post. He didn't like that DF said that Skynx' posts were useless AND that he agreed with a post that Skynx made. Page 35 has that discussion, I believe.
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On November 04 2016 07:26 NeverUnlucky wrote: I town-read you because you're bad. That's not any better.
[Insert Calix ML history here]
Ah yes, your flip-flopping on me really shows that you "town-read me only because I'm bad"
Your pride just makes you look inconsistent as fuck, my dude.
Instead of choking on it by whining about it, why don't you explain exactly why you town-read Rels as hard as you do? I'm skeptical of hard-town-reading Rels as you said you did.
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On November 04 2016 07:38 Foreman wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2016 06:31 Calix wrote:On November 04 2016 06:23 Foreman wrote:On November 04 2016 06:12 Calix wrote:On November 04 2016 06:09 Tictock wrote:On November 04 2016 06:01 Calix wrote: But how hard is it to just say something like "oh I was joking" or "I wanted to play the game properly" or something? Maybe I'm just assuming that ExO is as amazingly intelligent as I am, but that doesn't seem like a stretch for scum.
His later behaviour is more concerning to me. I don't really like it and the point which I found the most interesting from him is something that you claim was a joke. (I think) Thats actually kinda my point, town!Exo could have said the same things, or started posting gifs to joke around. What did we see? Him getting butthurt that you called him out for not posting Gifs and attacking you for it. I feel like this is going around in circles. It's clear that you think that's a scummy reaction from ExO and I disagree. I think we should move on since this thread is blowing up. Thoughts on Foreman? I'm still thinking this could be TvT and thus I find him sitting in the background to be conspicuous. I go a few hours without posting because I have shit to do and I'm sitting in the background? Lulz. Well in my opinion, you weren't posting a lot. Fine by itself. But you were just talking about stuff which wasn't related to the main discussion at hand until recently. That stood out to me especially because I think it's two townies fighting. Thus someone ignoring it looks weird and like they don't want to take a side in it since either of them being lynched helps scum. So yes, my logic is pretty good, I'd say. I'd say you're logic is pretty trash because there are dynamics between those two that I'm not familiar with so me jumping in the middle would only muddy the waters.
"not familiar with"
If they were discussing a meta reference then I would believe this. However they weren't. Everything that was discussed with ExO/ TT was sourced from the game thread. Why would the dynamics be unfamiliar to you?
Regardless of your response, what DID you make of ExO/ TT?
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re: Rels, I am 100% going to have to reread his filter. He's saying more intelligent things and I think his DF argument makes sense. But a substantial portion of the other decent posts are about town-reads. (which scum can do easily so doesn't get as much credit as scum-reads)
I am biased though - I feel like he might be trying to pocket me given that he's given two strong reasons (in my opinion) for me being town and I don't think that's really necessary to post if you already town-read me from a fairly early point, so I am dubious of his motives there. But maybe he just wants to signal that I'm going in the "never lynch" pile or something if it's that strong a read. Dunno.
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On November 04 2016 07:46 darthfoley wrote: I can answer the Skynx stuff when I'm not in a movie for class, but I'm putting my vote on mahrgell.
He STILL hasn't said anything conclusive or definitive. He keeps asking the same things to the same people to stall and buy time. He's also using the OMGIS first game defense now. I remember my first forum game (This is my fourth) and I rolled scum. I play a ton of IRL mafia and I'm pretty good at it, but I was terrible with trying to forge reads as scum G1. I can't remember the title of the game but it was on TL.
I see a lot of parallels between my playstyle that game, and his play style in this game. Outside of this, I've already written content on my mahrgell scum read. Look through my filter if you want a refresher. Also find it interesting that he peaches out with all his reads for family time, then as soon as I put heat on him, he finds the time to go semi filter diving and engage with people again.
##Vote: mahrgell
I've read the game that you're referring to: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/501039-unoriginal-name-mini-mafia
I was looking for it for a while to compare your play, actually
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Anyway, skimmed through that filter. Noticed a few things.
(inb4 Rels beats me to the uptake with a detailed meta analysis)
1. His tone is different. More confident, less reliance on going "I agree with X about Y" with his posts. Either he's town this game or he's improved his scum play. (game is dated in January this year)
2. He's more serious this game.
3. Kind of leads on from Point #2 but he's more focused on sorting players in this round, I feel.
So there's nothing that makes me think "DF IS LOCK TOWN, NEVER LYNCHING" but I think it's worth keeping in mind.
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On November 04 2016 08:01 Foreman wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2016 07:45 Calix wrote:On November 04 2016 07:38 Foreman wrote:On November 04 2016 06:31 Calix wrote:On November 04 2016 06:23 Foreman wrote:On November 04 2016 06:12 Calix wrote:On November 04 2016 06:09 Tictock wrote:On November 04 2016 06:01 Calix wrote: But how hard is it to just say something like "oh I was joking" or "I wanted to play the game properly" or something? Maybe I'm just assuming that ExO is as amazingly intelligent as I am, but that doesn't seem like a stretch for scum.
His later behaviour is more concerning to me. I don't really like it and the point which I found the most interesting from him is something that you claim was a joke. (I think) Thats actually kinda my point, town!Exo could have said the same things, or started posting gifs to joke around. What did we see? Him getting butthurt that you called him out for not posting Gifs and attacking you for it. I feel like this is going around in circles. It's clear that you think that's a scummy reaction from ExO and I disagree. I think we should move on since this thread is blowing up. Thoughts on Foreman? I'm still thinking this could be TvT and thus I find him sitting in the background to be conspicuous. I go a few hours without posting because I have shit to do and I'm sitting in the background? Lulz. Well in my opinion, you weren't posting a lot. Fine by itself. But you were just talking about stuff which wasn't related to the main discussion at hand until recently. That stood out to me especially because I think it's two townies fighting. Thus someone ignoring it looks weird and like they don't want to take a side in it since either of them being lynched helps scum. So yes, my logic is pretty good, I'd say. I'd say you're logic is pretty trash because there are dynamics between those two that I'm not familiar with so me jumping in the middle would only muddy the waters. "not familiar with" If they were discussing a meta reference then I would believe this. However they weren't. Everything that was discussed with ExO/ TT was sourced from the game thread. Why would the dynamics be unfamiliar to you? Regardless of your response, what DID you make of ExO/ TT? You do realize that meta isn't the only thing that carries over between games, yes? Personality conflicts and how they resolve (or not) can also be alignment indicative if people are familiar with those clashing. If I were to get in the middle of TT/ExO, it could have interfered with the ability to read them. I prefer to wait until things resolve and then chime in to avoid that. That said, I am likiing ExO for town. I don't understand why TT has votes, it's something I'll need to read up on later tonight. 17% battery is telling me nou.
A poor argument. A fresh set of eyes is extremely helpful when it comes to sorting players. You, as a player new to the site, would be ignorant of ExO/ TT's 'meta tells' and thus would pick up on minor details that players more experienced with them would otherwise dismiss as NAI. Perhaps it's just me but sometimes not knowing meta is a good thing because then you can offer a different perspective on a player that isn't tainted by meta.
But anyway, I shall let you have fun with your dying phone. I'll await your thoughts on TT later.
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How many people are voting for ExO again?
I've been going over each player individually. I'm considering my town motivation that I have in mind for ExO and I'm not that convinced that it's that compelling compared to other players. So I might just ignore my reservations about him and sheep.
It's pretty clear that I don't know where the hell I am at with my reads so it's anti-town for me to push for anyone right now :/
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On November 04 2016 08:51 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2016 08:48 Foreman wrote:On November 04 2016 08:42 ExO_ wrote: NU is actively borrowing his reads for rels in an attempt to push me, with Marhgwell being 3rd on a wagon.
Marhgwell is scum, and probably NU I disagree with both of your scumreads. Mahrgell's flip on me looked like an honest reassessment. If he was scum, he could have accused me of AtE and used my reach out as grounds to double down on me. NU... I don't get why you think he's scum. What do you think of Mahgrell voting me without giving his reasoning just now? What about NU literally taking the words out of rels mouth as a reason to push me, even though rels didn't see it as a reason to scum read me. foreman read the damn thread. And do something to help town. What did this post accomplish here? What did you disagreeing with me (in a bad way) accomplish? N O T H I N G
Uh, didn't you vote TT without giving any reasoning earlier? And you only gave reasoning because I had to ask for it?
NU thinking that something that Rels said about you is scummy when Rels didn't doesn't make him scum. That's not AI at all.
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On November 04 2016 08:57 NeverUnlucky wrote: Historically speaking, TT questioning ExO's VT claim would make him mafia.
Please elaborate.
(what the hell does 'historically speaking' even mean in this context?)
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On November 04 2016 09:01 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2016 08:59 mahrgell wrote:Exo: 1)my original post about Exo: http://www.liquiddota.com/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=26146963Nothing I said there really changed, even with the newer posts. Honestly while he always calls other ppl to read the tread, his posts don't really strike me as if he had read the thread so far. I guess I have to honorary mention that at least he doesn't ask for summaries all the time. Great upgrade. 2) On November 03 2016 04:46 ExO_ wrote:On November 03 2016 04:44 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 04:40 mahrgell wrote:On November 03 2016 04:35 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 04:32 mahrgell wrote:gosh Calix, can we please stop post synced? Also after what I read from you last game I'm afraid of myself, if I share your thoughts... I don't want to be like you Sorry. It's ironic because you're insinuating that I am a bad player...but I'm pretty sure that you misinterpreted what Foreman said. He was calling me scum, not you. I am aware that he is only going after you. But as I share your concern regarding NU... And would like the same answer to be answered... He refuses to answer me, because he considers you to be scum. I don't agree on the policy of "I don't talk to who I consider scum". I consider this antitown, but I understand interpretations on this may differ. But I really dislike the policy of "I don't talk to you, because a player I consider to be scum shared your concerns". This is for sure antitown. So either he considers me scum too, or he is just antitown. Both conclusions are not really giving him any plus points in my book. It is extremely anti-town to ignore anyone save for red-checked players or the like. It shows that he is not willing to reconsider his reads and will be prone to tunnel-vision. (this is something I am specifically trying to avoid) I remain uncertain on Foreman. I'm inclined to scum-read him purely for his pathetic dismissal of my NU case (aka the most substantial post made this game) but I'm biased there as I think my case is pretty good. Furthermore, some of his posts have minor town-tells in them. (nothing convincing though) Concluding null as it stands. How can you be so hesitant to scum read anyone? All of your reads come built in with "but I might be wrong." You back pedal on everything you've said so far and leave yourself a way out. Almost as if you are afraid to hard scum read somebody because you know you are lying. I'm quite convinced you are scum leaving yourself as many outs as possible. Okay. I can follow this idea. But... How on earth have you not gone after me? So far pretty much everyone in the thread confirms me as the "King of leaving outs". Even I do that. And yet, you haven't once mentioned me? Seriously? I should be your topscum. At this point, if it wasn't about me, I would actually call you out for distancing. In fact i'm surprised nobody did that yet. 3) On November 04 2016 04:30 ExO_ wrote:On November 04 2016 04:18 Calix wrote: Reasoning? I didn't like his filter and trust skynx Again, are you serious? You come back in the thread, after 13 hours, and all you do to start is an uncommented vote, and when asked this is your reason this is everything? I mean... at least whine about not having time, etc. But all you had to say on those 180 posts that happened in the meantime was that. Stunning! Actually you promised to look into NU and FM first in your last post before the break. You engaged FM later, but all you did was telling him to learn to read. There was no analysis of him whatsoever. Similarly you also tangled with NU, starting with this post: On November 04 2016 06:30 ExO_ wrote:On November 04 2016 06:27 NeverUnlucky wrote:On November 04 2016 06:11 ExO_ wrote:On November 04 2016 06:09 Tictock wrote:On November 04 2016 06:01 Calix wrote: But how hard is it to just say something like "oh I was joking" or "I wanted to play the game properly" or something? Maybe I'm just assuming that ExO is as amazingly intelligent as I am, but that doesn't seem like a stretch for scum.
His later behaviour is more concerning to me. I don't really like it and the point which I found the most interesting from him is something that you claim was a joke. (I think) Thats actually kinda my point, town!Exo could have said the same things, or started posting gifs to joke around. What did we see? Him getting butthurt that you called him out for not posting Gifs and attacking you for it. Starting a discussion is EXACTLY what town wants to do. And its exactly what I did. Implying that I wouldn't do that is town is at best misleading. What I did drew a lot of attention to me, you really think thats what I would do as scum? Instead of posting a few gifs and joking around a bit? please. Lynch TT its so obvious at this point On October 31 2016 09:24 NeverUnlucky wrote: Sure. c: One more /in.
This is what is going to happen this game:
1. I will roll town. 2. Game starts; unoriginal players'll say "First confirmed town!" 3. One town will have a weird or even scummy entry. 4. Calix will tunnel said player. NeverUnlucky will have a good read on Calix based on the tunnel. 5. Said town will claim that the intent behind his entry was to stir up conversation. 6. Everyone will mock him and some will town-read him. 7. Active players’ll shitpost, lurkers’ll lurk. 8. One player will case another player who’ll become the main wagon, but the case is weak, thus : 9. People will initiate a CFD at EoD, and a town will die.
1 to 7, check. 8 and 9 to go. Calix hasn't tunneled anyone. You're full of shit Again not what I would call an analysis. You later gave some weak reads on NUs latest posts, but the "I will look into NU" results posts is still to be seen. 4) Your obsession about your VT claim. Your entire defense seems to be "but I claimed VT" I still can't make sense of it. The way you present it here, claiming VT is the ultimative move early day1. Everyone should do it, and nobody doing it should ever be lynched day1 except by scum players. I'm not buying it. And honestly you can't believe that yourself. Either you completely lack the ability to imagine how others may view the game, or this is just some horrible play. And you repeating it again and again doesnt make it better. If you want to convince me... Try another approach. I'm open to arguments, but that VT bullshit is really tiring me and your obsession with it is making you look more scummy in my eyes. I read your town game. You did much better there. If you are town this game, you are awful. I don't think you are awful from what I've seen, but just feel reminded of your rather similar dota2 scum performance. You are wrong. And this is exactly what I think scum will do. Lynch me, and then say "It was his own horrible play". If I die today take a close look at Mahgrell (I'm looking mostly at you calix as you seem the most level-headed person here)
I think this is the first time that I have ever been told this.
I think you should focus on giving some reads, however. Top two townies, top two scum-reads or you can do a full reads list. With less than 24 hours left, it's a good idea to do that now rather than near EOD when things are more desperate/ rushed. I think you have too many people pushing you for a constant defense to be helpful to anyone. You will just wear yourself out regardless of your alignment and get angry which is why I'm not going to add to that by pushing you
Giving reads is more beneficial to the town compared to defending yourself against your detractors as much in any case.
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Also I think we have way too many people pressuring ExO. That's bad because ExO's going to get stressed out sooner or later, so then he'll lash out and that looks scummy so then people keep piling on.
So I propose that we let up a little bit so that he can actually post something constructive. I think the wagon on him lets him know well enough that he's going to die if he doesn't step it up so constantly pushing him like this is just inhibiting his potential to do anything else imo.
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On November 04 2016 09:12 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2016 09:06 Calix wrote:On November 04 2016 09:01 ExO_ wrote:On November 04 2016 08:59 mahrgell wrote:Exo: 1)my original post about Exo: http://www.liquiddota.com/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=26146963Nothing I said there really changed, even with the newer posts. Honestly while he always calls other ppl to read the tread, his posts don't really strike me as if he had read the thread so far. I guess I have to honorary mention that at least he doesn't ask for summaries all the time. Great upgrade. 2) On November 03 2016 04:46 ExO_ wrote:On November 03 2016 04:44 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 04:40 mahrgell wrote:On November 03 2016 04:35 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 04:32 mahrgell wrote:gosh Calix, can we please stop post synced? Also after what I read from you last game I'm afraid of myself, if I share your thoughts... I don't want to be like you Sorry. It's ironic because you're insinuating that I am a bad player...but I'm pretty sure that you misinterpreted what Foreman said. He was calling me scum, not you. I am aware that he is only going after you. But as I share your concern regarding NU... And would like the same answer to be answered... He refuses to answer me, because he considers you to be scum. I don't agree on the policy of "I don't talk to who I consider scum". I consider this antitown, but I understand interpretations on this may differ. But I really dislike the policy of "I don't talk to you, because a player I consider to be scum shared your concerns". This is for sure antitown. So either he considers me scum too, or he is just antitown. Both conclusions are not really giving him any plus points in my book. It is extremely anti-town to ignore anyone save for red-checked players or the like. It shows that he is not willing to reconsider his reads and will be prone to tunnel-vision. (this is something I am specifically trying to avoid) I remain uncertain on Foreman. I'm inclined to scum-read him purely for his pathetic dismissal of my NU case (aka the most substantial post made this game) but I'm biased there as I think my case is pretty good. Furthermore, some of his posts have minor town-tells in them. (nothing convincing though) Concluding null as it stands. How can you be so hesitant to scum read anyone? All of your reads come built in with "but I might be wrong." You back pedal on everything you've said so far and leave yourself a way out. Almost as if you are afraid to hard scum read somebody because you know you are lying. I'm quite convinced you are scum leaving yourself as many outs as possible. Okay. I can follow this idea. But... How on earth have you not gone after me? So far pretty much everyone in the thread confirms me as the "King of leaving outs". Even I do that. And yet, you haven't once mentioned me? Seriously? I should be your topscum. At this point, if it wasn't about me, I would actually call you out for distancing. In fact i'm surprised nobody did that yet. 3) On November 04 2016 04:30 ExO_ wrote:On November 04 2016 04:18 Calix wrote: Reasoning? I didn't like his filter and trust skynx Again, are you serious? You come back in the thread, after 13 hours, and all you do to start is an uncommented vote, and when asked this is your reason this is everything? I mean... at least whine about not having time, etc. But all you had to say on those 180 posts that happened in the meantime was that. Stunning! Actually you promised to look into NU and FM first in your last post before the break. You engaged FM later, but all you did was telling him to learn to read. There was no analysis of him whatsoever. Similarly you also tangled with NU, starting with this post: On November 04 2016 06:30 ExO_ wrote:On November 04 2016 06:27 NeverUnlucky wrote:On November 04 2016 06:11 ExO_ wrote:On November 04 2016 06:09 Tictock wrote:On November 04 2016 06:01 Calix wrote: But how hard is it to just say something like "oh I was joking" or "I wanted to play the game properly" or something? Maybe I'm just assuming that ExO is as amazingly intelligent as I am, but that doesn't seem like a stretch for scum.
His later behaviour is more concerning to me. I don't really like it and the point which I found the most interesting from him is something that you claim was a joke. (I think) Thats actually kinda my point, town!Exo could have said the same things, or started posting gifs to joke around. What did we see? Him getting butthurt that you called him out for not posting Gifs and attacking you for it. Starting a discussion is EXACTLY what town wants to do. And its exactly what I did. Implying that I wouldn't do that is town is at best misleading. What I did drew a lot of attention to me, you really think thats what I would do as scum? Instead of posting a few gifs and joking around a bit? please. Lynch TT its so obvious at this point On October 31 2016 09:24 NeverUnlucky wrote: Sure. c: One more /in.
This is what is going to happen this game:
1. I will roll town. 2. Game starts; unoriginal players'll say "First confirmed town!" 3. One town will have a weird or even scummy entry. 4. Calix will tunnel said player. NeverUnlucky will have a good read on Calix based on the tunnel. 5. Said town will claim that the intent behind his entry was to stir up conversation. 6. Everyone will mock him and some will town-read him. 7. Active players’ll shitpost, lurkers’ll lurk. 8. One player will case another player who’ll become the main wagon, but the case is weak, thus : 9. People will initiate a CFD at EoD, and a town will die.
1 to 7, check. 8 and 9 to go. Calix hasn't tunneled anyone. You're full of shit Again not what I would call an analysis. You later gave some weak reads on NUs latest posts, but the "I will look into NU" results posts is still to be seen. 4) Your obsession about your VT claim. Your entire defense seems to be "but I claimed VT" I still can't make sense of it. The way you present it here, claiming VT is the ultimative move early day1. Everyone should do it, and nobody doing it should ever be lynched day1 except by scum players. I'm not buying it. And honestly you can't believe that yourself. Either you completely lack the ability to imagine how others may view the game, or this is just some horrible play. And you repeating it again and again doesnt make it better. If you want to convince me... Try another approach. I'm open to arguments, but that VT bullshit is really tiring me and your obsession with it is making you look more scummy in my eyes. I read your town game. You did much better there. If you are town this game, you are awful. I don't think you are awful from what I've seen, but just feel reminded of your rather similar dota2 scum performance. You are wrong. And this is exactly what I think scum will do. Lynch me, and then say "It was his own horrible play". If I die today take a close look at Mahgrell (I'm looking mostly at you calix as you seem the most level-headed person here) I think this is the first time that I have ever been told this. I think you should focus on giving some reads, however. Top two townies, top two scum-reads or you can do a full reads list. With less than 24 hours left, it's a good idea to do that now rather than near EOD when things are more desperate/ rushed. I think you have too many people pushing you for a constant defense to be helpful to anyone. You will just wear yourself out regardless of your alignment and get angry which is why I'm not going to add to that by pushing you Giving reads is more beneficial to the town compared to defending yourself against your detractors as much in any case. tbh I think It's almost too late. And I'm not really in a good enough mood to try and do super deep meta reads, based on day 1 bullshitting. Day 1 is almost all bullshitting like this. I'm never really confident in my own reads (esp on day 1). look at my other games here (though it's been a while.) I think I do better at defending myself as town and picking the right people to follow than solving the game on my own. Compare this to my dota 2 scum game that we just got done with. I was quiet and would come into the thread offering some read this disappear again. It's not the same at all. All I can say is that I am town, and I think the people to really look at are the people that are going to blame my own play as the reason why I was lynched. The people that say things like "oh it was his own fault for being bad".
Doesn't have to be anything extensive. Even your current stream-of-consciousness thoughts or "I'm currently here with X player but I'm not sure" ideas are better than nothing. Is there anything that you think is being overlooked, for example? Any particularly good points that you've made that you feel are being ignored due to confirmation bias, perhaps?
I understand if you're tired so I'll just repeat that I'm not expecting giant paragraphs
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On November 04 2016 09:14 NeverUnlucky wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2016 09:09 Calix wrote: Also I think we have way too many people pressuring ExO. That's bad because ExO's going to get stressed out sooner or later, so then he'll lash out and that looks scummy so then people keep piling on.
So I propose that we let up a little bit so that he can actually post something constructive. I think the wagon on him lets him know well enough that he's going to die if he doesn't step it up so constantly pushing him like this is just inhibiting his potential to do anything else imo. Invitation accepted. What do you think of the Kenpachi rule? The logic behind it is that claiming VT has no scum nor town motivation. Scum is likely going to push for that claim since it is easy to do, and they may look like they are being productive.
TT's main reasoning for his ExO scum-read is not based on this 'Kenpachi' rule.
But it's a possible theory, yes. It's difficult to push as an idea though because TT has written off the post where he was accused of pushing a VT claim to an easy lynch, so we can only speculate :/
Do you think the other cases against TT hold weight? Those can actually be discussed as TT did not brush them aside as easily.
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On November 04 2016 09:16 darthfoley wrote: Just to clarify my Skynx thing,
At that point in the thread I was so tired of NU vs. Calix uber hardcore insult driven tunneling that I found myself really disappointed with the direction and tone of the game. In comes Skynx, who correctly identifies that ore salt votes (I know you two will disagree with this assessment) are not only meaningless but they're a waste of time. Other than that, Skynx had indeed been pretty much useless and very whiny. I apreciate that the atmosphere has become a little less emotionally charged. That's what I meant, even if phrased poorly.
As I write this, Foreman accuses ExO of cyberbullying *facepalm*
I agree that the two of us together = poor atmosphere if left unchecked. I think you're being hyperbolic with it being "uber hardcore insult-driven tunneling" though unless you were raised under a rock.
I don't know what NU/ Calix has to do with your reaction to Skynx though. Skynx made that comment before NU flipped his shit on me and my case on NU early on was not by any stretch a tunnel.
I don't really think that you addressed the core of Rels' concern with your post here.
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Using activity as a town/ scum tell is commonplace on this site. ExO using it is not noteworthy in my opinion.
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I for one still do not think that scum!Skynx is likely to make that shitty entrance and then follow up on it by criticising like, 5/8 of the other players.
All that does is get him on everyone's radars. It's likely to piss people off. It's certainly not making him any friends. It's not leaving him under the radar. He's not doing it to say that all five of those players are scum/ cast doubt because he calls most of them bad. His logic isn't complete shite so it's not causing chaos either. So why do that as scum?
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On November 04 2016 09:29 mahrgell wrote: @calix: Something about your posting confuses me. But I somehow feel you are confusing yourself probably. You always claim you have too many townreads. But in this game, if you are town you should see 6 town and 2 mafia. So yes... Most people should look townish. I haven't seen you townread EVERYONE so far... so... I'm sure there are two left. Which brings me to: Would you care to update me on your current scum->town ranking of the players here?
Yes, I was (and to an extent, still am) having problems with my reads because I was seeing town motivation all over the place. That's kind of why I voted Rels as well because he was/ still is pretty inactive and I figured "well the active players seem townie so I guess the scum are passive/ lurking" and Rels fitted that profile, but I am not so sure now.
This is what I sent when I finally got the chance to jot down a reads list in my notes:
TOWN Calix Skynx Never Unlucky mahrgell TT darthfoley Foreman Rels ExO MAFIA
I've already changed my mind since this list though. ExO feels genuine (although I'll reread since I got that read when I was feeling sorry for him since everyone and their kittens was pushing him) and it's possible that TT is mafia instead or something. Basically the order of TT, DF, Foreman is interchangeable. I might bump up Foreman a notch, actually.
But anyway, it's kind of where I stand.
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On November 04 2016 09:43 mahrgell wrote: Thanks @Calix
With that I will now finally go to sleep. As time may be rare tomorrow, who do you suggest to look into first out of TT,DF and Skynx? I guess you are valueing Skynx highly, so could you maybe give me a summary how you came to this? And then I would start with one of the other two. Probably DF, as TT seems to be tied to skynx. DF seems to be upset with me though and I don't feel like revenge reading ^.^ I doubt anything useful will come from his.
I already stated why I am strongly town-reading Skynx. It's literally just a page back.
As for who you should read - TT. 100% recommend this if you are having doubts on ExO in particular given the TT/ ExO debacle. So if you thought that ExO could be town then how would TT look? Seems like the best choice to me.
But the choice is up to you.
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I second Foreman's response here. If TT 'didn't hate something' then that implies that he thought it could come from town, no?
I don't have a scum-read on TT, but guess what? I have tinfoil!
The main thing which rubs me the wrong way about TT is that he seems more snarky/ prone to insinuations...touchy, even? Not sure there...than I remember him being. For some reason it makes me feel uncomfortable with him. For example, he didn't react well to ExO saying "lol your entrance is scummy" even though that's not something that anyone should really give a fuck about.
And while his responses under pressure are fine, that's all they are. Fine. Acceptable. There's nothing that I think is particularly townie. They just look nice on paper. It's hard to explain but sometimes it feels like he's saying things because he thinks they look good, not because he actually thinks them. Kind of like scum!JAT in CM.
I don't think he's been reconsidering his reads either. His Skynx read progression felt off to me and is muddled. I don't think his reasoning to start null-scum-reading him again or whatever is a valid one. He also seems locked on scum!ExO and when Rels said "he's likely town because of his claim" I didn't get the impression that TT was ACTUALLY taking that post into account with his read because a) he hasn't taken it into consideration since and b) hasn't considered ExO as town at all. It's possible that TT isn't actually thinking critically about the game and is just focusing on minor details so that he doesn't have to fake re-evaluating players or give proper reads on the rest of the game.
tl;dr: I'm paranoid that he's playing a good scum game but don't have much evidence to tell one way or the other.
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Conversely, TT's train is terrible and none of the posts against him have convincing scum explanations for TT's posts. Even I don't.
Furthermore, I think that TT's reaction to ExO has been better than vice versa. He's made it clear why he scum-reads ExO and he's been more aggressive with pursuing ExO, etc. What I didn't like when I saw ExO re-enter the thread is that all he does is sheep Skynx on TT (making it three votes on him + making it the leading wagon) and I had to ask for his reasoning.
It's also undeniable that ExO's early game-play was really awful. He scum-read me based on the dumbest shit, dropped off when the conversation moved away, reappeared to make one more comment at me. After AFKing for some time, he retracts the scum-read of me. (which was in line with thread consensus) Drops off AGAIN before sheeping the TT train. (this isn't quite as bad as he said he didn't like TT's entrance)
But somehow I can't shake off the feeling that ExO is town. Maybe it's his tone. Maybe it's my doubts over how shitty his play has been. Maybe it's my wariness of following a train that everyone is so gung-ho about. Or maybe I'm just overestimating the influence of the mafia team and ExO really is just obvious scum. Whatever, I'm just going to have to call it a gut read at this point.
But I didn't hate his point about TT/ the VT claim even if TT is like "lalala it's a joke guise ladidah"
If DF/ Skynx/ ExO would like to summarise their thoughts on why TT is mafia then I'd like to hear it.
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On November 04 2016 20:10 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2016 09:01 ExO_ wrote:On November 04 2016 08:59 mahrgell wrote:Exo: 1)my original post about Exo: http://www.liquiddota.com/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=26146963Nothing I said there really changed, even with the newer posts. Honestly while he always calls other ppl to read the tread, his posts don't really strike me as if he had read the thread so far. I guess I have to honorary mention that at least he doesn't ask for summaries all the time. Great upgrade. 2) On November 03 2016 04:46 ExO_ wrote:On November 03 2016 04:44 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 04:40 mahrgell wrote:On November 03 2016 04:35 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 04:32 mahrgell wrote:gosh Calix, can we please stop post synced? Also after what I read from you last game I'm afraid of myself, if I share your thoughts... I don't want to be like you Sorry. It's ironic because you're insinuating that I am a bad player...but I'm pretty sure that you misinterpreted what Foreman said. He was calling me scum, not you. I am aware that he is only going after you. But as I share your concern regarding NU... And would like the same answer to be answered... He refuses to answer me, because he considers you to be scum. I don't agree on the policy of "I don't talk to who I consider scum". I consider this antitown, but I understand interpretations on this may differ. But I really dislike the policy of "I don't talk to you, because a player I consider to be scum shared your concerns". This is for sure antitown. So either he considers me scum too, or he is just antitown. Both conclusions are not really giving him any plus points in my book. It is extremely anti-town to ignore anyone save for red-checked players or the like. It shows that he is not willing to reconsider his reads and will be prone to tunnel-vision. (this is something I am specifically trying to avoid) I remain uncertain on Foreman. I'm inclined to scum-read him purely for his pathetic dismissal of my NU case (aka the most substantial post made this game) but I'm biased there as I think my case is pretty good. Furthermore, some of his posts have minor town-tells in them. (nothing convincing though) Concluding null as it stands. How can you be so hesitant to scum read anyone? All of your reads come built in with "but I might be wrong." You back pedal on everything you've said so far and leave yourself a way out. Almost as if you are afraid to hard scum read somebody because you know you are lying. I'm quite convinced you are scum leaving yourself as many outs as possible. Okay. I can follow this idea. But... How on earth have you not gone after me? So far pretty much everyone in the thread confirms me as the "King of leaving outs". Even I do that. And yet, you haven't once mentioned me? Seriously? I should be your topscum. At this point, if it wasn't about me, I would actually call you out for distancing. In fact i'm surprised nobody did that yet. 3) On November 04 2016 04:30 ExO_ wrote:On November 04 2016 04:18 Calix wrote: Reasoning? I didn't like his filter and trust skynx Again, are you serious? You come back in the thread, after 13 hours, and all you do to start is an uncommented vote, and when asked this is your reason this is everything? I mean... at least whine about not having time, etc. But all you had to say on those 180 posts that happened in the meantime was that. Stunning! Actually you promised to look into NU and FM first in your last post before the break. You engaged FM later, but all you did was telling him to learn to read. There was no analysis of him whatsoever. Similarly you also tangled with NU, starting with this post: On November 04 2016 06:30 ExO_ wrote:On November 04 2016 06:27 NeverUnlucky wrote:On November 04 2016 06:11 ExO_ wrote:On November 04 2016 06:09 Tictock wrote:On November 04 2016 06:01 Calix wrote: But how hard is it to just say something like "oh I was joking" or "I wanted to play the game properly" or something? Maybe I'm just assuming that ExO is as amazingly intelligent as I am, but that doesn't seem like a stretch for scum.
His later behaviour is more concerning to me. I don't really like it and the point which I found the most interesting from him is something that you claim was a joke. (I think) Thats actually kinda my point, town!Exo could have said the same things, or started posting gifs to joke around. What did we see? Him getting butthurt that you called him out for not posting Gifs and attacking you for it. Starting a discussion is EXACTLY what town wants to do. And its exactly what I did. Implying that I wouldn't do that is town is at best misleading. What I did drew a lot of attention to me, you really think thats what I would do as scum? Instead of posting a few gifs and joking around a bit? please. Lynch TT its so obvious at this point On October 31 2016 09:24 NeverUnlucky wrote: Sure. c: One more /in.
This is what is going to happen this game:
1. I will roll town. 2. Game starts; unoriginal players'll say "First confirmed town!" 3. One town will have a weird or even scummy entry. 4. Calix will tunnel said player. NeverUnlucky will have a good read on Calix based on the tunnel. 5. Said town will claim that the intent behind his entry was to stir up conversation. 6. Everyone will mock him and some will town-read him. 7. Active players’ll shitpost, lurkers’ll lurk. 8. One player will case another player who’ll become the main wagon, but the case is weak, thus : 9. People will initiate a CFD at EoD, and a town will die.
1 to 7, check. 8 and 9 to go. Calix hasn't tunneled anyone. You're full of shit Again not what I would call an analysis. You later gave some weak reads on NUs latest posts, but the "I will look into NU" results posts is still to be seen. 4) Your obsession about your VT claim. Your entire defense seems to be "but I claimed VT" I still can't make sense of it. The way you present it here, claiming VT is the ultimative move early day1. Everyone should do it, and nobody doing it should ever be lynched day1 except by scum players. I'm not buying it. And honestly you can't believe that yourself. Either you completely lack the ability to imagine how others may view the game, or this is just some horrible play. And you repeating it again and again doesnt make it better. If you want to convince me... Try another approach. I'm open to arguments, but that VT bullshit is really tiring me and your obsession with it is making you look more scummy in my eyes. I read your town game. You did much better there. If you are town this game, you are awful. I don't think you are awful from what I've seen, but just feel reminded of your rather similar dota2 scum performance. You are wrong. And this is exactly what I think scum will do. Lynch me, and then say "It was his own horrible play". If I die today take a close look at Mahgrell (I'm looking mostly at you calix as you seem the most level-headed person here) This is a scummy reaction to a good case. Buddying Calix and attacking mahrgell directly instead of attacking his arguments;
He sounded stressed out to me so I offered him an out by inviting him to give some reads. From my experience, constantly putting someone on the defense means that you're left with little information if they flip town and it's generally unpleasant for anyone to be put under that much pressure.
I didn't like his posts after that though and I think that's more telling than anything gleaned from him squirming under pressure. He dropped off considerably after the pressure left (this is suspicious because it's a repeated pattern in his behaviour - he did this at the start of the game too) and none of his reads impressed me. (e.g., his activity reads, while NAI, are shallow)
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On November 04 2016 20:41 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2016 20:31 Calix wrote:On November 04 2016 20:10 Rels wrote:On November 04 2016 09:01 ExO_ wrote:On November 04 2016 08:59 mahrgell wrote:Exo: 1)my original post about Exo: http://www.liquiddota.com/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=26146963Nothing I said there really changed, even with the newer posts. Honestly while he always calls other ppl to read the tread, his posts don't really strike me as if he had read the thread so far. I guess I have to honorary mention that at least he doesn't ask for summaries all the time. Great upgrade. 2) On November 03 2016 04:46 ExO_ wrote:On November 03 2016 04:44 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 04:40 mahrgell wrote:On November 03 2016 04:35 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 04:32 mahrgell wrote:gosh Calix, can we please stop post synced? Also after what I read from you last game I'm afraid of myself, if I share your thoughts... I don't want to be like you Sorry. It's ironic because you're insinuating that I am a bad player...but I'm pretty sure that you misinterpreted what Foreman said. He was calling me scum, not you. I am aware that he is only going after you. But as I share your concern regarding NU... And would like the same answer to be answered... He refuses to answer me, because he considers you to be scum. I don't agree on the policy of "I don't talk to who I consider scum". I consider this antitown, but I understand interpretations on this may differ. But I really dislike the policy of "I don't talk to you, because a player I consider to be scum shared your concerns". This is for sure antitown. So either he considers me scum too, or he is just antitown. Both conclusions are not really giving him any plus points in my book. It is extremely anti-town to ignore anyone save for red-checked players or the like. It shows that he is not willing to reconsider his reads and will be prone to tunnel-vision. (this is something I am specifically trying to avoid) I remain uncertain on Foreman. I'm inclined to scum-read him purely for his pathetic dismissal of my NU case (aka the most substantial post made this game) but I'm biased there as I think my case is pretty good. Furthermore, some of his posts have minor town-tells in them. (nothing convincing though) Concluding null as it stands. How can you be so hesitant to scum read anyone? All of your reads come built in with "but I might be wrong." You back pedal on everything you've said so far and leave yourself a way out. Almost as if you are afraid to hard scum read somebody because you know you are lying. I'm quite convinced you are scum leaving yourself as many outs as possible. Okay. I can follow this idea. But... How on earth have you not gone after me? So far pretty much everyone in the thread confirms me as the "King of leaving outs". Even I do that. And yet, you haven't once mentioned me? Seriously? I should be your topscum. At this point, if it wasn't about me, I would actually call you out for distancing. In fact i'm surprised nobody did that yet. 3) On November 04 2016 04:30 ExO_ wrote:On November 04 2016 04:18 Calix wrote: Reasoning? I didn't like his filter and trust skynx Again, are you serious? You come back in the thread, after 13 hours, and all you do to start is an uncommented vote, and when asked this is your reason this is everything? I mean... at least whine about not having time, etc. But all you had to say on those 180 posts that happened in the meantime was that. Stunning! Actually you promised to look into NU and FM first in your last post before the break. You engaged FM later, but all you did was telling him to learn to read. There was no analysis of him whatsoever. Similarly you also tangled with NU, starting with this post: On November 04 2016 06:30 ExO_ wrote:On November 04 2016 06:27 NeverUnlucky wrote:On November 04 2016 06:11 ExO_ wrote:On November 04 2016 06:09 Tictock wrote:On November 04 2016 06:01 Calix wrote: But how hard is it to just say something like "oh I was joking" or "I wanted to play the game properly" or something? Maybe I'm just assuming that ExO is as amazingly intelligent as I am, but that doesn't seem like a stretch for scum.
His later behaviour is more concerning to me. I don't really like it and the point which I found the most interesting from him is something that you claim was a joke. (I think) Thats actually kinda my point, town!Exo could have said the same things, or started posting gifs to joke around. What did we see? Him getting butthurt that you called him out for not posting Gifs and attacking you for it. Starting a discussion is EXACTLY what town wants to do. And its exactly what I did. Implying that I wouldn't do that is town is at best misleading. What I did drew a lot of attention to me, you really think thats what I would do as scum? Instead of posting a few gifs and joking around a bit? please. Lynch TT its so obvious at this point On October 31 2016 09:24 NeverUnlucky wrote: Sure. c: One more /in.
This is what is going to happen this game:
1. I will roll town. 2. Game starts; unoriginal players'll say "First confirmed town!" 3. One town will have a weird or even scummy entry. 4. Calix will tunnel said player. NeverUnlucky will have a good read on Calix based on the tunnel. 5. Said town will claim that the intent behind his entry was to stir up conversation. 6. Everyone will mock him and some will town-read him. 7. Active players’ll shitpost, lurkers’ll lurk. 8. One player will case another player who’ll become the main wagon, but the case is weak, thus : 9. People will initiate a CFD at EoD, and a town will die.
1 to 7, check. 8 and 9 to go. Calix hasn't tunneled anyone. You're full of shit Again not what I would call an analysis. You later gave some weak reads on NUs latest posts, but the "I will look into NU" results posts is still to be seen. 4) Your obsession about your VT claim. Your entire defense seems to be "but I claimed VT" I still can't make sense of it. The way you present it here, claiming VT is the ultimative move early day1. Everyone should do it, and nobody doing it should ever be lynched day1 except by scum players. I'm not buying it. And honestly you can't believe that yourself. Either you completely lack the ability to imagine how others may view the game, or this is just some horrible play. And you repeating it again and again doesnt make it better. If you want to convince me... Try another approach. I'm open to arguments, but that VT bullshit is really tiring me and your obsession with it is making you look more scummy in my eyes. I read your town game. You did much better there. If you are town this game, you are awful. I don't think you are awful from what I've seen, but just feel reminded of your rather similar dota2 scum performance. You are wrong. And this is exactly what I think scum will do. Lynch me, and then say "It was his own horrible play". If I die today take a close look at Mahgrell (I'm looking mostly at you calix as you seem the most level-headed person here) This is a scummy reaction to a good case. Buddying Calix and attacking mahrgell directly instead of attacking his arguments; He sounded stressed out to me so I offered him an out by inviting him to give some reads. From my experience, constantly putting someone on the defense means that you're left with little information if they flip town and it's generally unpleasant for anyone to be put under that much pressure. I didn't like his posts after that though and I think that's more telling than anything gleaned from him squirming under pressure. He dropped off considerably after the pressure left (this is suspicious because it's a repeated pattern in his behaviour - he did this at the start of the game too) and none of his reads impressed me. (e.g., his activity reads, while NAI, are shallow) Yep he has moved in my scumreads. Every post he made yesterday was a defense post, then he just left when he had nothing else to do.
Of the three players that you listed, ExO is by far the most appropriate lynch. The difference can be summed up like this:
TT is proactive and aggressive.
ExO is reactive.
It would take a stretch to think that TT is a better lynch.
I am actually going to unvote you now. I'm curious as to this Rels vs darthfoley scenario that seems to be taking place and I think that it deserves more attention. That's just not going to happen if either of you two die today.
##unvote Rels
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To expand on my Rels vs DF reasoning, I think it's good to foster this because:
A) Neither of you two have been pressured that much so it's a good change in direction.
B) I actually like your thoughts on DF. I found his response to your first post against him to be unsatisfactory so you may be onto something here.
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On November 04 2016 20:54 Rels wrote:Skynx has a real shot at being scum too. A lot of his posts just look like fake to me, faking a "not-caring" tone. To compare with Foreman, it looks like Skynx is trying to appear not caring, while Foreman just doesn't care and wite stuff that he thinks. And I know weaker scums tend to do that after losing scumgames 'cause it's easier to play. And I know Skynx is not a very good scum player. These posts make me think that: + Show Spoiler +On November 03 2016 04:12 Skynx wrote: Man you guys are way too fun to read On November 03 2016 04:50 Skynx wrote: None of what happened so far is AI guys please... On November 03 2016 04:54 Skynx wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 04:53 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 04:50 Skynx wrote: None of what happened so far is AI guys please... Then do something that will make AI posts happen. What is the point of sitting around and complaining that people are making early reads exactly? What is the point of spamming bunch of stuff that doesn't have anything to do with anything other than increasing postcount for people that are not here yet? On November 03 2016 04:58 Skynx wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 04:56 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 04:54 Skynx wrote:On November 03 2016 04:53 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 04:50 Skynx wrote: None of what happened so far is AI guys please... Then do something that will make AI posts happen. What is the point of sitting around and complaining that people are making early reads exactly? What is the point of spamming bunch of stuff that doesn't have anything to do with anything other than increasing postcount for people that are not here yet? To generate conversation so that the not-yet-here people have something constructive to add, of course. What is your strategy to find scum if we're doing a poor job of it? Add something constructive when i find opportunity to do so. Like I'm doing now, stopping you guys go overboard with surjective NAI stuff cuz it really means absolutely nothing what you guys accuse each other for in past few pages On November 03 2016 05:10 Skynx wrote: I mean I really dunno what to add here, its just NAI guys.
Can we talk about like flowers and butterflies? On November 03 2016 05:15 Skynx wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 05:11 Foreman wrote:On November 03 2016 05:05 Skynx wrote:On November 03 2016 05:00 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 04:58 Skynx wrote:On November 03 2016 04:56 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 04:54 Skynx wrote:On November 03 2016 04:53 Calix wrote:On November 03 2016 04:50 Skynx wrote: None of what happened so far is AI guys please... Then do something that will make AI posts happen. What is the point of sitting around and complaining that people are making early reads exactly? What is the point of spamming bunch of stuff that doesn't have anything to do with anything other than increasing postcount for people that are not here yet? To generate conversation so that the not-yet-here people have something constructive to add, of course. What is your strategy to find scum if we're doing a poor job of it? Add something constructive when i find opportunity to do so. Like I'm doing now, stopping you guys go overboard with surjective NAI stuff cuz it really means absolutely nothing what you guys accuse each other for in past few pages Oh wonderful, that means that you can tell us how my case on NU doesn't show scum-indicative behaviour Do you have any reads at all? I'm skeptical that you have no initial impressions at all. Here is what happened; Calix sr Exo (gif stuff) Exo sr Calix (doesn't like his push) Everyone sr Everyone (because all pushes are very surjective and doesn't mean anything and everyone is aware of that so might aswell sr the others) What you are asking right now makes sense in that regard as me suggesting you guys pushing NAI stuff on eachother means I should also sr you guys but its just not right and this is all really nothing productive in the end. Here is what happened: Skynx entered thread Skynx complained about unproductive content Skynx provided unproductive content What you are doing right now is worse than anything you've complained about, because you should be of the mindset that providing even more unproductive content would only make our situation worse, given your remarks. Well, Calix is the one to make me explain how NAI stuff is NAI you can blame him for that if you really want to. I'm just here to drink milk and fuck bitches. On November 03 2016 22:17 Skynx wrote: I only like darth so far for making sense with his posts while keeping it short and meaningfull.
I hate TT's reads in p15 or something they are literally the worst. He deserves a vote but I'll touch on this a bit later on.
Exo's reads are quite bad aswell but less bad than TT.
Haven't read Rels yet.
Rest is bad and should feel bad for being able to spam this much and actually say nothing of worth. I'm gona vote for a stfu lynch on the biggest filter for now before i actually get a time to read in detail cuz this shit is unacceptable. Actually, his only real content were in his 2 huge wall posts. I disagree with pretty much everything he's said in it. A lot of it is just logical mistakes that are not scum tells.
I felt a similar way about darthfoley's case on TT, not Skynx.
Skynx was just lynched as scum in that Dota game, although you seem to know that already. He was relying a lot on fake anger and yelling that XYZ was mafia without pushing for their lynch.
However I am bad at reading emotions. I agree that Foreman's persona seems more authentic but I don't think that means that Skynx is faking it.
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Obligatory useless vote to make sure that I don't get mod-killed.
##vote ExO_
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I'm going to laugh if ExO is mafia and TT/ NU/ mahrgell/ myself are ALL town because that would be the most epic spew.
Call me unrealistically optimistic.
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On November 04 2016 21:36 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2016 21:23 Calix wrote: I'm going to laugh if ExO is mafia and TT/ NU/ mahrgell/ myself are ALL town because that would be the most epic spew.
Call me unrealistically optimistic. LOL it might actually be the case
Finished reading Skynx' ISO yet?
As it stands, I'm thinking that we're in an ExO/ darthfoley world. I'm thinking this because:
1. You make good points against him.
2. I remember that he made that poor TT case and I'm going to check now, but if he made that after ExO was starting to get votes or whatever then I'm going to be really suspicious of him. (shameless pre-flip association but hey)
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On November 04 2016 21:44 Calix wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2016 21:36 Rels wrote:On November 04 2016 21:23 Calix wrote: I'm going to laugh if ExO is mafia and TT/ NU/ mahrgell/ myself are ALL town because that would be the most epic spew.
Call me unrealistically optimistic. LOL it might actually be the case Finished reading Skynx' ISO yet? As it stands, I'm thinking that we're in an ExO/ darthfoley world. I'm thinking this because: 1. You make good points against him. 2. I remember that he made that poor TT case and I'm going to check now, but if he made that after ExO was starting to get votes or whatever then I'm going to be really suspicious of him. (shameless pre-flip association but hey)
Update: Checked his case and the last page before that. darthfoley was getting questioned by Rels/ NU and darthfoley was being critical of ExO. darthfoley later voted for mahrgell although this wagon is not a popular one.
I'm concluding that the evidence is not strong enough to form a pre-flip association.
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He can go in the townpile for now since he's making more sense, so I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. If I'm wrong on one of ExO/ darthfoley then I would revisit him.
Also I thought I had posted my updated list. Well here it is:
MAFIA ExO (too much scummy behaviour to justify from a town POV at this point) darthfoley (Rels made another point against him that I agree with) Rels (has made some decent points for/ against players as of late, can be given the benefit of the doubt for now) Tictock (goes down a notch for recent tinfoil but if ExO is mafia then he's almost-always town since he was the counter-wagon) Skynx (depends on what he does next) Foreman (good tone, content is questionable but he doesn't give a fuck) mahrgell NeverUnlucky Calix TOWN
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On November 04 2016 22:08 NeverUnlucky wrote: Also, why did you town-read ExO before?
Because I thought that his actions made more sense from "shit town" than "mafia" since I think his early play is sub-optimal for mafia and I still don't quite get why he would do it as scum. I think I gave him the benefit of the doubt for too long but given that nobody else was, I don't think that's a bad thing.
But that doubt is not strong enough to override the mountain of evidence against him at this point, thus he is probably mafia and a great lynch.
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On November 05 2016 00:14 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2016 06:37 ExO_ wrote:On November 04 2016 06:36 NeverUnlucky wrote:On November 04 2016 06:34 ExO_ wrote:On November 04 2016 06:32 NeverUnlucky wrote:On November 04 2016 06:30 ExO_ wrote:On November 04 2016 06:27 NeverUnlucky wrote:On November 04 2016 06:11 ExO_ wrote:On November 04 2016 06:09 Tictock wrote:On November 04 2016 06:01 Calix wrote: But how hard is it to just say something like "oh I was joking" or "I wanted to play the game properly" or something? Maybe I'm just assuming that ExO is as amazingly intelligent as I am, but that doesn't seem like a stretch for scum.
His later behaviour is more concerning to me. I don't really like it and the point which I found the most interesting from him is something that you claim was a joke. (I think) Thats actually kinda my point, town!Exo could have said the same things, or started posting gifs to joke around. What did we see? Him getting butthurt that you called him out for not posting Gifs and attacking you for it. Starting a discussion is EXACTLY what town wants to do. And its exactly what I did. Implying that I wouldn't do that is town is at best misleading. What I did drew a lot of attention to me, you really think thats what I would do as scum? Instead of posting a few gifs and joking around a bit? please. Lynch TT its so obvious at this point On October 31 2016 09:24 NeverUnlucky wrote: Sure. c: One more /in.
This is what is going to happen this game:
1. I will roll town. 2. Game starts; unoriginal players'll say "First confirmed town!" 3. One town will have a weird or even scummy entry. 4. Calix will tunnel said player. NeverUnlucky will have a good read on Calix based on the tunnel. 5. Said town will claim that the intent behind his entry was to stir up conversation. 6. Everyone will mock him and some will town-read him. 7. Active players’ll shitpost, lurkers’ll lurk. 8. One player will case another player who’ll become the main wagon, but the case is weak, thus : 9. People will initiate a CFD at EoD, and a town will die.
1 to 7, check. 8 and 9 to go. Calix hasn't tunneled anyone. You're full of shit Who's not reading the game now? Are you serious? lol. Show me where Calix is tunneling, and not actively considering all reads and possibilities. Give me a break Pointless argument, dismissed. If you're going to acuse Calix of tunneling, you better be able to back it up. Calix you Town reading NU? because if you're scum reading him I think he might be a decent lynch today I not so subtly hinted at this last night, and coming back to it today I can't help but reach the same conclusion. Doesn't the bolded line look line something meant for a scum QT? Is this a massive slip or am I crazy?
No it doesn't.
Why would scum!ExO make a post meant for the scum QT in the same post that he talks to NU?
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On November 05 2016 00:33 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2016 00:23 Calix wrote:On November 05 2016 00:14 Tictock wrote:On November 04 2016 06:37 ExO_ wrote:On November 04 2016 06:36 NeverUnlucky wrote:On November 04 2016 06:34 ExO_ wrote:On November 04 2016 06:32 NeverUnlucky wrote:On November 04 2016 06:30 ExO_ wrote:On November 04 2016 06:27 NeverUnlucky wrote:On November 04 2016 06:11 ExO_ wrote: [quote]
Starting a discussion is EXACTLY what town wants to do. And its exactly what I did. Implying that I wouldn't do that is town is at best misleading. What I did drew a lot of attention to me, you really think thats what I would do as scum? Instead of posting a few gifs and joking around a bit?
please.
Lynch TT its so obvious at this point On October 31 2016 09:24 NeverUnlucky wrote: Sure. c: One more /in.
This is what is going to happen this game:
1. I will roll town. 2. Game starts; unoriginal players'll say "First confirmed town!" 3. One town will have a weird or even scummy entry. 4. Calix will tunnel said player. NeverUnlucky will have a good read on Calix based on the tunnel. 5. Said town will claim that the intent behind his entry was to stir up conversation. 6. Everyone will mock him and some will town-read him. 7. Active players’ll shitpost, lurkers’ll lurk. 8. One player will case another player who’ll become the main wagon, but the case is weak, thus : 9. People will initiate a CFD at EoD, and a town will die.
1 to 7, check. 8 and 9 to go. Calix hasn't tunneled anyone. You're full of shit Who's not reading the game now? Are you serious? lol. Show me where Calix is tunneling, and not actively considering all reads and possibilities. Give me a break Pointless argument, dismissed. If you're going to acuse Calix of tunneling, you better be able to back it up. Calix you Town reading NU? because if you're scum reading him I think he might be a decent lynch today I not so subtly hinted at this last night, and coming back to it today I can't help but reach the same conclusion. Doesn't the bolded line look line something meant for a scum QT? Is this a massive slip or am I crazy? No it doesn't. Why would scum!ExO make a post meant for the scum QT in the same post that he talks to NU? Thats why it's called a slip. I have to admit it's a shitty way to be found out if you are scum kus you've been playing really well. It makes a ton of sense though, kus you've been really weird about your reads on both myself and Exo. You townread Exo forever without ever having reasons to (you even said yourself, you just didn't see the scum modivations but didn't have any reasons to TR him). Most of pages 30-40 you keep talking like you could go either way on me and keep telling people to look at the case on me, never try to come to much of a conclusion yourself. You also made that really paranoid response when I asked you about your townread on Exo. The more I've thought about it the more it makes sense.
No, it ISN'T a slip because it's clearly not a post meant for the scum QT because otherwise the NU comment wouldn't be there.
I wasn't 'going either way on you'. I've been going through most of the game thinking that it's TvT and only took a closer look at you two recently before deciding that ExO is a better lynch than you. Being a black sheep with regards to ExO isn't scummy.
I'm not going to waste anymore time with your dumb tinfoil theory. If you actually think this, you're going to have to case me and maybe then you'll get some sense knocked into you.
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That's a lot of words to say "I think NU has dropped off since his opening posts"
NU did explain his 'historically speaking' post with some weird Kenpachi thing.
I don't understand what half of your reasons even mean. The cow emoticon, why you included NU's post about being 'mod-confirmed', something about his reasoning for voting ExO.
???
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On November 05 2016 01:04 darthfoley wrote: I'm getting a tad paranoid with the one train lynch ???
Happened in my last scum game too. I am assuming that it's for a similar reason if ExO is mafia - scum are cutting their losses by bussing because he is indefensible.
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Going from my last post, that would incriminate DF, Rels, myself in particular since we were late voters and made a case on ExO before voting even though he was definitely getting lynched at those points.
I can't blame TT for thinking that I'm mafia with ExO. It's not like I had anything to do with getting ExO lynched. Sure, he's going for the obvious target because I was town-reading ExO and thus that looks obviously bad if ExO is scum. I think it's reasonable to suspect me based on that even though there's not much I can say on that front. Too bad that he had to ruin it by going into tunnel-territory with "EXO SCUM-SLIPPED THAT HE'S MAFIA WITH CALIX"
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On November 05 2016 01:21 Skynx wrote: I mean Exo did some bad stuff guys, as i quoted previous page.
However, can someone please give me some solid arguments that makes him objective scum like TT and NU? Other than him being defensive all the time which is not even a reason anymore and makes sense as everyone is scumreading him.
How is NU objective scum? I saw nothing of the sort in your case.
I also disagree that TT is 'objective scum'.
I'm also not sure how you missed all of the ExO posts with regards to the early game/ TT's case/ Rels' post before he voted for ExO/ my posts prior to voting for ExO/ darthfoley's post before voting for ExO. I'm not saying that everything in those posts I've flagged up meets your criteria of 'objective scum' but there's definitely a better case for ExO compared to TT/ NU.
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No. It's not my job to look for cases for you. That's on you. Town should be reaching out to the town, not vice versa.
With your reads, how is 'retaliation' a town tell?
I don't relate to your DF read.
How is an over-aggressive tone scum-indicative? What examples do you have?
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On November 05 2016 01:49 Skynx wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2016 01:43 Calix wrote: No. It's not my job to look for cases for you. That's on you. Town should be reaching out to the town, not vice versa.
With your reads, how is 'retaliation' a town tell?
I don't relate to your DF read.
How is an over-aggressive tone scum-indicative? What examples do you have? ok. Retaliation is a town tell because he's getting attacked non-stop for bad reasons. Check vivax and me from Dota mafia, which I know you have been following which is completely the opposite. I dunno who you're accounting to with the over-aggressive tone, Foreman? I'm not scum reading him, I got no material i specified I didn't read him much.
Yes I have been following it. I still don't follow your point though.
If you think ExO is town then what are your thoughts on how the trains have formed?
In terms of your cases, I'm really not convinced by your NU case and I didn't find anything damning when I filtered TT earlier unless I go full tinfoil and I didn't like DF's case.
Yeah, Foreman. If something is 'over-aggressive' then does that not imply that it's scummy?
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On November 05 2016 01:56 Skynx wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2016 01:53 Calix wrote:On November 05 2016 01:49 Skynx wrote:On November 05 2016 01:43 Calix wrote: No. It's not my job to look for cases for you. That's on you. Town should be reaching out to the town, not vice versa.
With your reads, how is 'retaliation' a town tell?
I don't relate to your DF read.
How is an over-aggressive tone scum-indicative? What examples do you have? ok. Retaliation is a town tell because he's getting attacked non-stop for bad reasons. Check vivax and me from Dota mafia, which I know you have been following which is completely the opposite. I dunno who you're accounting to with the over-aggressive tone, Foreman? I'm not scum reading him, I got no material i specified I didn't read him much. Yes I have been following it. I still don't follow your point though. If you think ExO is town then what are your thoughts on how the trains have formed? In terms of your cases, I'm really not convinced by your NU case and I didn't find anything damning when I filtered TT earlier unless I go full tinfoil and I didn't like DF's case. Yeah, Foreman. If something is 'over-aggressive' then does that not imply that it's scummy? I'll build up on both TT and NU cases in the night to convince more people i guess. I feel like Exo lynch will only strengthen my point.
I find it quite odd that you're saying that you have this town-lean on ExO (one of your few town-reads/ leans/ whatever) yet you're not really trying to oppose his lynch or convince us how NU/ TT are mafia. (your NU case still makes zero sense, not a single bit)
You just don't seem to care that much at all.
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On November 05 2016 02:02 NeverUnlucky wrote: Skynx's play this game reminds me of this quote from disformation on how to play as mafia: "just posts tons of words. dump a wot in thread now and then, nobody will read them and think you are town for the effort. "
lmao
What is a 'wot'?
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On November 05 2016 02:05 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2016 01:49 Rels wrote:On November 05 2016 01:19 ExO_ wrote: I just woke up, and I have to run errands. I'll probably be back before EoD but I can't swear to it. What I will say is this:
I came into the thread just saying whatever I felt like. It's how I always play town. I don't try to carefully construct my posts I just say whats on my mind. I did a lot of OMGUS. When I finally sat and calmly looked at the game, I put a little suspicion on DF/Skynx because of short filter, and rels for a similar reason. But I've been attacked for switching views, for not tunneling, for tunneling at the start, and a whole variety of other things.
I don't know exactly how I could defend myself at this point. I've done my best to make you realize that I'm town. But a LOT of people are tunneling on me. I'm not sure what else I'd have to do to prove I'm town.
The idea that I had a scum slip is a complete joke. If I die today:
Lynch TT/Rels. Both are experienced townies yet are moronically pushing this lynch. Especially TT. After that I would look for people who coasted and just hopped on the wagon day 1.
Do not Lynch Calix: Calix is the most most obviously confirmed town here. I want to say NU as well because of filter length, but I'm not sure.
Anywho I'm running some errands now like I said. I should be back before EoD but my motivation to play this game is basically out the window. This is so bad. This martiring won't get you through this lynch. You're saying you can't defend yourself 'cause you're attacked whatever thing you chose to do; well, you could defend yourself by pointing out WHY other people are scummy. In this very post you admit that your OMGUS was bad; that after re evaluating you think one of DF / Skynx / Rels are probably scum; THEN you go on "lynch TT and Rels 'cause they should know better than pushing me" which is the FUCKING DEFINITION OF OMGUS. The last time you've stated reasons for your reads was your NU read yesterday. Since then it has been either OMGUS or filter size. Perhaps you should consider that it's very difficult to make accurate reads right now when everyone is scum reading me and on my wagon. It's hard for me to not be OMGUS when everyone is voting for me, is it not? That said, I think both you and TT are pushing me here past what makes sense. Especially the way TT came back into the thread last night and ignored the progression of my posts to make a point. He strung a bunch of posts together that were very far apart to make me look horrible. either way I think at least one of you two should know better. Which makes me think at least one of you is scum. This isn't OMGUS, this is my honest thoughts.
How other people scum-read/ vote you doesn't negatively impact your reads. In fact, it means you're in the unique position of not being distracted by how scummy you look.
I for one would like to hear more detail about your TT/ Rels theory or at least give some thoughts on darthfoley/ Foreman/ mahrgell. (you haven't talked much about them and if you're town then having that 'confirmed town' spec would be really helpful)
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On November 05 2016 02:16 NeverUnlucky wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2016 02:13 Skynx wrote:On November 05 2016 02:02 NeverUnlucky wrote: Skynx's play this game reminds me of this quote from disformation on how to play as mafia: "just posts tons of words. dump a wot in thread now and then, nobody will read them and think you are town for the effort. " Your irony is overflowing any logic presentable. All you did all game is troll and discredit others. I dunno why is anyone townreading you at this point. I trolled this game, eh? "Discredit others": I've only discredited Calix.
lol
The fact that he conflated "discrediting Calix" with "others" should be telling you that you discredit me way too much. Perhaps consider not doing that so much.
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I'm forced to agree with NU here. ExO flipping town does not tell us jack shit about TT/ NU.
It's quite simple really - if NU/ TT are town then the town explanation for their posts around ExO would be that they scum-read ExO and were wrong. It's foolish to make "if X is town then Y is mafia" associations.
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On November 05 2016 02:23 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2016 01:56 Skynx wrote:On November 05 2016 01:53 Calix wrote:On November 05 2016 01:49 Skynx wrote:On November 05 2016 01:43 Calix wrote: No. It's not my job to look for cases for you. That's on you. Town should be reaching out to the town, not vice versa.
With your reads, how is 'retaliation' a town tell?
I don't relate to your DF read.
How is an over-aggressive tone scum-indicative? What examples do you have? ok. Retaliation is a town tell because he's getting attacked non-stop for bad reasons. Check vivax and me from Dota mafia, which I know you have been following which is completely the opposite. I dunno who you're accounting to with the over-aggressive tone, Foreman? I'm not scum reading him, I got no material i specified I didn't read him much. Yes I have been following it. I still don't follow your point though. If you think ExO is town then what are your thoughts on how the trains have formed? In terms of your cases, I'm really not convinced by your NU case and I didn't find anything damning when I filtered TT earlier unless I go full tinfoil and I didn't like DF's case. Yeah, Foreman. If something is 'over-aggressive' then does that not imply that it's scummy? I'll build up on both TT and NU cases in the night to convince more people i guess. I feel like Exo lynch will only strengthen my point. Fair warning, I'm prob gunna call TMI on this if Exo ends up flipping town.
While I find Skynx's behaviour around ExO to be strange, I feel like you are going for the obvious options with your reads so far at the expense of other options.
AKA I think I'm making acquaintance with Tunneltock.
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On November 05 2016 02:25 Skynx wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2016 02:23 Rels wrote:Skynx: On November 05 2016 01:59 Rels wrote:On November 05 2016 01:35 Skynx wrote: Exo's retaliation is a towntell from my perspective as he's been sr'd by almost everyone in the game, some of which for very bad reasons or no reasons at all. Its his right to retaliate. However not much arguments otherise, he's just been defending all game, I've been in this situation and can sympathise.
Why is it a towntell ? If you think he would do that as town, what would he do as scum ? Blatant ridiculing of pushes cuz they are weak as fuck. He cannot instantly push them back as scum cuz he already has the information and he doesn't know yet how those people gona turn out later on so he cannot aford to take heat on himself early on.
But he already had a lot of heat on him early on and his response was to disappear before retracting the read that led to such suspicion in the first place...?
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On November 05 2016 02:29 NeverUnlucky wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2016 02:27 ExO_ wrote: God I hope I can make it back home before EoD. In short do NOT let the people hard pushing me saying it reveals nothing about alignment if I flip town, get away with it.
They're covering their asses now because they know im about to flip town. I genuinely think this is a very town response... ... which reinforces my Skynx scum-read. CFD Skynx imo.
I actually might do this.
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On November 05 2016 02:31 ExO_ wrote: dont calix. skynx is town, trust him. you and him are the most town
Wait, I thought you said he had to be looked into because of his short filter? What changed?
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TT, your thoughts on Skynx' approach to ExO then...?
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On November 05 2016 02:36 Calix wrote: TT, your thoughts on Skynx' approach to ExO then...?
I want an answer BEFORE the flip, thanks.
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On November 05 2016 02:42 NeverUnlucky wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2016 02:41 Skynx wrote:On November 05 2016 02:39 NeverUnlucky wrote:On November 05 2016 02:39 Skynx wrote:On November 05 2016 02:38 NeverUnlucky wrote:On November 05 2016 02:37 Tictock wrote:On November 05 2016 02:35 NeverUnlucky wrote:On November 05 2016 02:34 Tictock wrote:On November 05 2016 02:29 NeverUnlucky wrote:On November 05 2016 02:27 ExO_ wrote: God I hope I can make it back home before EoD. In short do NOT let the people hard pushing me saying it reveals nothing about alignment if I flip town, get away with it.
They're covering their asses now because they know im about to flip town. I genuinely think this is a very town response... ... which reinforces my Skynx scum-read. CFD Skynx imo. I disagree. Exo is still the best lynch. Every single one of his posts has just been him trying to survive the day, this one included. That's not scum AI. I would not want to be lynched either if I had this many votes. So then it's NAI. Why would you townread him then? His tone feels right. What a hero distancing himself from the lynch. Guys please wake the fuck up. What are you doing atm? lmao Yeah I almost forgot, thank you for reminding. ##Unvote ##Vote: NeverUnlucky I was saying that what you are doing is distancing yourself from the lynch. I have cold feet about this ExO lynch. What are everyone's strongest scum-reads and why?
Bad post. It's not unreasonable to think that someone might interpret "having cold feet" as "distancing from a potential ML"
Random question is also terrible and pointless.
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On November 05 2016 02:45 ExO_ wrote: Okay I'm back home I'm going to try to type things out as fast as I can.
CALIX listen to me. Skynx is town. There is no way he comes in and town reads me at EoD as scum. It's too risky. You two need to lead the town here
While I can conclude that the white-knighting accusations would draw attention to him because he is black-sheeping, surely that can be dismissed with WIFOM, no?
If you are town then it's similar to what he did last game with Lunatic. Do you have any other reasons to town-read him?
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On November 05 2016 02:47 ExO_ wrote: Calix/Skynx any questions you have please ask me, before I flip as town please ask now. I will try my best to answer quickly. I'm 100% sure you two are town and the people like NU trying to discredit Skynx are almost certainly going to be scum
Yeah, can you please summarise/ conclude your reads in one post? I think that would help people see what your reads were. You can even just cobble your previous posts into one since you have 10 minutes left.
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On November 05 2016 02:50 Calix wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2016 02:47 ExO_ wrote: Calix/Skynx any questions you have please ask me, before I flip as town please ask now. I will try my best to answer quickly. I'm 100% sure you two are town and the people like NU trying to discredit Skynx are almost certainly going to be scum Yeah, can you please summarise/ conclude your reads in one post? I think that would help people see what your reads were. You can even just cobble your previous posts into one since you have 10 minutes left.
In case ExO missed this.
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On November 05 2016 02:53 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2016 02:50 Calix wrote:On November 05 2016 02:47 ExO_ wrote: Calix/Skynx any questions you have please ask me, before I flip as town please ask now. I will try my best to answer quickly. I'm 100% sure you two are town and the people like NU trying to discredit Skynx are almost certainly going to be scum Yeah, can you please summarise/ conclude your reads in one post? I think that would help people see what your reads were. You can even just cobble your previous posts into one since you have 10 minutes left. This is something I'm not very good at. a lot of my reads I base on what I think, and researching specific examples is hard. I think out of TT/Rels/NU there is at least 1 scum. Maybe 2. TT or rels should have known better than to let this lynch go down like it did, and instead both pushed it hard. I would look at them heavily. NU's game has just been really bad all around, hard to say if its because he's bad or because he's scum though. I didn't like the way mahgrell played, and the way he's afk now but I think he's something to look at after the top 3. DF is townier than mahgrell. Foreman is angry town
You don't have to cite examples, just as long as you have some reasoning that we can relate to.
One more question. What makes DF more town than mahrgell and why don't you like mahrgell?
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On November 05 2016 02:54 ExO_ wrote: If there is one thing you do please listen to me:
You need to figure out the scum out of Rels/TT/NU
They are going to try to push suspicion on to people like skynx here. Do not let them. I'm speaking to all of you town, figure out which one of them is scum and lynch them
These kinds of posts are making me think ExO is town.
Fuck.
I'll just say that if you are town then I'll keep this in mind.
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Because three-minute EODs are never a good idea. (cough Palmar cough)
But damn, that's really disappointing.
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On November 05 2016 02:59 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2016 02:57 ExO_ wrote:On November 05 2016 02:56 Rels wrote:On November 05 2016 02:53 ExO_ wrote:On November 05 2016 02:50 Calix wrote:On November 05 2016 02:47 ExO_ wrote: Calix/Skynx any questions you have please ask me, before I flip as town please ask now. I will try my best to answer quickly. I'm 100% sure you two are town and the people like NU trying to discredit Skynx are almost certainly going to be scum Yeah, can you please summarise/ conclude your reads in one post? I think that would help people see what your reads were. You can even just cobble your previous posts into one since you have 10 minutes left. This is something I'm not very good at. a lot of my reads I base on what I think, and researching specific examples is hard. I think out of TT/Rels/NU there is at least 1 scum. Maybe 2. TT or rels should have known better than to let this lynch go down like it did, and instead both pushed it hard. I would look at them heavily. NU's game has just been really bad all around, hard to say if its because he's bad or because he's scum though. I didn't like the way mahgrell played, and the way he's afk now but I think he's something to look at after the top 3. DF is townier than mahgrell. Foreman is angry town I'm tired of seeing this. I only started pushing you as my main scumread a few hours ago. You even scumread me for not having a strong scumread on you yesterday. That makes another thing that is not consistent with your reads actually. I'm having doubts but I think you'll flip scum. I don't think i'll shennannie. again, distancing himself just like TT. Look very very very closely att TT/rels. they're both experienced and they both should've known this was a bad lynch. If you're town, you can go fuck yourself.
I feel like this is unnecessarily aggressive as a response. What about ExO's post was that objectionable?
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Can't really say that was a surprise after that EOD.
I'm going to go and colour-code that host vote-sheet thing and then I'll be doing some rereading of ExO's posts.
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On November 05 2016 03:04 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2016 02:59 Calix wrote:On November 05 2016 02:59 Rels wrote:On November 05 2016 02:57 ExO_ wrote:On November 05 2016 02:56 Rels wrote:On November 05 2016 02:53 ExO_ wrote:On November 05 2016 02:50 Calix wrote:On November 05 2016 02:47 ExO_ wrote: Calix/Skynx any questions you have please ask me, before I flip as town please ask now. I will try my best to answer quickly. I'm 100% sure you two are town and the people like NU trying to discredit Skynx are almost certainly going to be scum Yeah, can you please summarise/ conclude your reads in one post? I think that would help people see what your reads were. You can even just cobble your previous posts into one since you have 10 minutes left. This is something I'm not very good at. a lot of my reads I base on what I think, and researching specific examples is hard. I think out of TT/Rels/NU there is at least 1 scum. Maybe 2. TT or rels should have known better than to let this lynch go down like it did, and instead both pushed it hard. I would look at them heavily. NU's game has just been really bad all around, hard to say if its because he's bad or because he's scum though. I didn't like the way mahgrell played, and the way he's afk now but I think he's something to look at after the top 3. DF is townier than mahgrell. Foreman is angry town I'm tired of seeing this. I only started pushing you as my main scumread a few hours ago. You even scumread me for not having a strong scumread on you yesterday. That makes another thing that is not consistent with your reads actually. I'm having doubts but I think you'll flip scum. I don't think i'll shennannie. again, distancing himself just like TT. Look very very very closely att TT/rels. they're both experienced and they both should've known this was a bad lynch. If you're town, you can go fuck yourself. I feel like this is unnecessarily aggressive as a response. What about ExO's post was that objectionable? The whole idea that I have 0 reason to push him and that I'm bad and should know better fuck you exo
He wasn't calling you bad. He was saying that one/ both of you/ TT are scum because you thought it was a good lynch and since you two are experienced, that means that one/ both of you are pushing a mislynch on purpose.
From the perspective of a wagoned townie, that makes sense to me and I don't see why you'd take issue with it since he was calling you mafia, not bad.
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On November 05 2016 03:04 Calix wrote: Can't really say that was a surprise after that EOD.
I'm going to go and colour-code that host vote-sheet thing and then I'll be doing some rereading of ExO's posts.
Scratch the first part. Too many links to see what I'm doing.
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On November 05 2016 03:08 darthfoley wrote: Also kind of over Rels taking it personally every time he has a major hand in a mislynch and the mislynched person is mad at him. Unless he's mafia, which wouldn't classify this as a mislynch
Why do you think Rels had a 'major part' in ExO's ML? TT was clearly the one driving that while Rels popped in later after ExO was an established wagon.
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On November 05 2016 03:09 NeverUnlucky wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2016 03:08 Calix wrote:On November 05 2016 03:04 Calix wrote: Can't really say that was a surprise after that EOD.
I'm going to go and colour-code that host vote-sheet thing and then I'll be doing some rereading of ExO's posts. Scratch the first part. Too many links to see what I'm doing. I'll do it for you. What do you want green and red?
I just wanted ExO/ Calix highlighted green since those are the confirmed alignments to me.
But don't bother. Better to do it after the night kill tbh.
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So I think we should take TT into consideration more. I'm wary because he just led a ML and I'm not sure wherever scum!TT would do this. After all, people will naturally focus on the person who had yelled for ExO's head the entire day and only had one scum-read and scum don't want attention.
However I find TT's reluctance to see ExO's actions from a town perspective prior to the lynch to be suspect. He ignored Rels' earlier point about ExO's VT claim and kept making generalisations about ExO's play at EOD.
(also salty/ biased because his tinfoil theory against me was absolute crap)
So I am not a fan right now.
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I'm really annoyed at myself right now.
I was actually correct with my initial town-read on ExO (even if crappy) and I talked myself out of it. That's so fucking irritating.
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Alright, finished looking through ExO's filter.
He was a bit frazzled at EOD and his reads shifted quite rapidly (understandable) so it's hard for me to pin down the finer details of his reads but it's obvious that he hard town-read Calix/ Skynx, town-reads Foreman and thinks 1-2 scum are among TT/ Rels/ NU at the very least.
I've copied some quotes of his. I'd like some comments on them
+ Show Spoiler [TT VT claim] +On November 04 2016 05:58 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2016 05:55 Calix wrote:On November 04 2016 05:53 ExO_ wrote:On November 04 2016 05:49 Calix wrote:On November 04 2016 05:44 ExO_ wrote:On November 04 2016 05:41 Calix wrote: Foreman, can you give your thoughts on Skynx' wall-posts?
As for ExO, I missed #600. I'm not sure I agree. He says "I think ExO is scum but if he isn't then he's only a VT and is useless so he can die"
He thinks you're scum, ergo you're lying about being VT. All he does is rule out the possibility of you being TPR. I don't see inconsistency here. Or I'm lying about being VT to get scum to not mess with me on day 1. However look at the way he posts. He knows I'm only VT. You need to learn to read between the lines. Mafia are never going to come into the thread and announce they are mafia How would scum!TT know that you, the town!ExO, is telling the truth and that you're not a TPR exactly? I don't follow the "he knows I'm only VT" part. He wouldn't. However, he would had no problem killing me if he's scum (especially if he's scum and suspect I'm a power role). Does this make sense to you or do I need to break it down entirely? ELI5 I'm running into a problem that is rare for me - I have way too many town-reads. Needless to say, I'm having a hard time here. Scum TT knows who his scum buddy is, and who is town. He sees I claim VT. He knows that by killing me he'll either kill a VT (in which case he can claim "he was being worthless for town and it was good to get him out now, blah blah blah), or he'll kill a town power role and again blame it on my play. He claims that I'm either scum or VT. This is a call that nobody who is town will make. Because if a town player believes my VT claim then I cannot be scum. However if a town player doubts my VT claim then I might be power role and they might not wanna lynch me. The only people who would want to lynch me right now for the logic TT is presenting, are scum.
This might become a valid argument now that we know that ExO was town.
+ Show Spoiler [Foreman town-read] +On November 04 2016 07:42 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2016 07:36 Rels wrote: ExO, the only thing that keeps me from tunneling you into oblivion is your explanation of the VT thing. Please answer me about why your foreman read changed without reason between now and yesterday because if I was scum and foreman, I wouldn't be half-assing it like he is. I check to make sure what I'm posting lines up with everything else posted so far. If he's scum and not reading something he's directly posting about then it's poor scum play imo. The tone of his posts comes across as lazy half-assing towny rather than scummy to me
(here for future reference)
+ Show Spoiler [Foreman 'intimidation' point] +On November 04 2016 09:06 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2016 09:04 Foreman wrote:On November 04 2016 08:59 ExO_ wrote:On November 04 2016 08:58 Foreman wrote:On November 04 2016 08:55 ExO_ wrote:On November 04 2016 08:53 Foreman wrote:On November 04 2016 08:51 ExO_ wrote:On November 04 2016 08:48 Foreman wrote:On November 04 2016 08:42 ExO_ wrote: NU is actively borrowing his reads for rels in an attempt to push me, with Marhgwell being 3rd on a wagon.
Marhgwell is scum, and probably NU I disagree with both of your scumreads. Mahrgell's flip on me looked like an honest reassessment. If he was scum, he could have accused me of AtE and used my reach out as grounds to double down on me. NU... I don't get why you think he's scum. What do you think of Mahgrell voting me without giving his reasoning just now? What about NU literally taking the words out of rels mouth as a reason to push me, even though rels didn't see it as a reason to scum read me. foreman read the damn thread. And do something to help town. What did this post accomplish here? What did you disagreeing with me (in a bad way) accomplish? N O T H I N G My bad, let me be more productive, then. ##Vote: ExO_ for what reason? Why do you think I'm scum? You're flat out lying about me and attempting to intimidate me, for one thing. For another, your scumreads are trash and consist of two people pushing you. Because y'know, the entire scum team is going to throw everything they have into a d1 mislynch. how exactly am I lying about you? or attempting to intimidate you? Aren't you supposed to be mr.coldnotaffectedbyonlinepersonalities guy No, I'm Mr. Distantandunintentionallytreatpeoplelikepixelsuntiligettoknowthem guy. You are lying about me doing nothing in my disagreement with you. Before you say you weren't, be a pal and quote where i stated my thoughts on Mahrgell's flip prior to that post. Otherwise, admit that you were simply trying to intimidate me into thinking I was being worthless. ...what? are you delusional? Like legitimately are you delusional? Nothing I've done has been even close to intimidation. And nothing I've done has even been close to lying. You're literally bordering on actually being delusional
While ExO town-read him, I think this post is interesting because it's an example of Foreman being hyperbolic with poor reasoning.
+ Show Spoiler [TT read progression read] +On November 04 2016 14:36 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2016 14:30 Tictock wrote:On November 04 2016 06:11 ExO_ wrote:On November 04 2016 06:09 Tictock wrote:On November 04 2016 06:01 Calix wrote: But how hard is it to just say something like "oh I was joking" or "I wanted to play the game properly" or something? Maybe I'm just assuming that ExO is as amazingly intelligent as I am, but that doesn't seem like a stretch for scum.
His later behaviour is more concerning to me. I don't really like it and the point which I found the most interesting from him is something that you claim was a joke. (I think) Thats actually kinda my point, town!Exo could have said the same things, or started posting gifs to joke around. What did we see? Him getting butthurt that you called him out for not posting Gifs and attacking you for it. Starting a discussion is EXACTLY what town wants to do. And its exactly what I did. Implying that I wouldn't do that is town is at best misleading. What I did drew a lot of attention to me, you really think thats what I would do as scum? Instead of posting a few gifs and joking around a bit? please. Lynch TT its so obvious at this point Cute... but you really never did anything with that now did you? On November 03 2016 15:11 ExO_ wrote: I'm tired. I just got home. I don't feel like reading through the read. But I'll tell you my thoughts in a nutshell from the point I left.
I jumped on to Calix initially and continued to pressure him(her?) long after I thought she was scum. I do think the way he entered the thread was dumb and likely to inflame me. But his responses afterwards seemed very much from a towny perspective. I continued the pressure to see who would jump on the bandwagon with me in an attempt to press low hanging fruit.
I'll look at it tomorrow, but NeverUnlucky/foreman are both going to be the first people I look at. Your follow up to this was voting me kus you liked Skynx's case and think he is a cool guy. Now it seems like you've forgotten you even scumread me. On November 04 2016 08:42 ExO_ wrote: NU is actively borrowing his reads for rels in an attempt to push me, with Marhgwell being 3rd on a wagon.
Marhgwell is scum, and probably NU And apparently everyone who is voting you is also scum, so your reads are just OMGUS. On November 04 2016 09:16 ExO_ wrote: Darthfoley/Skynk have the shortest filters and might be good places to look as well. Going off filter length NU/Calix shouldn't be scum because they are so far and above everyone else. I'd find it hard to be posting that much as scum Which is now effectively half the game being thrown in for good measure. I guess Skynx is also not a cool guy anymore either. you are cherry picking my filter, without following any of the progression of it. Why? I think you are trying to tilt me. It's not going to work
Need to reread the chat to see if ExO is onto something here so I'll just leave this here for now.
+ Show Spoiler [Skynx town/ meta read] +On November 05 2016 02:48 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2016 02:47 Calix wrote:On November 05 2016 02:45 ExO_ wrote: Okay I'm back home I'm going to try to type things out as fast as I can.
CALIX listen to me. Skynx is town. There is no way he comes in and town reads me at EoD as scum. It's too risky. You two need to lead the town here While I can conclude that the white-knighting accusations would draw attention to him because he is black-sheeping, surely that can be dismissed with WIFOM, no? If you are town then it's similar to what he did last game with Lunatic. Do you have any other reasons to town-read him? I don't think it's like what he did with lunatic. Not on Day 1. Not like this. And I don't think he'd make the same play back to back like that. It's not smart. Also he wasn't the first person to really start pushing that luna might be town. Here he comes in at the very end saying I might be town. Its too risky as scum. He is not scum, do NOT let the others convince you he is
+ Show Spoiler [Reads list] +On November 05 2016 02:53 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2016 02:50 Calix wrote:On November 05 2016 02:47 ExO_ wrote: Calix/Skynx any questions you have please ask me, before I flip as town please ask now. I will try my best to answer quickly. I'm 100% sure you two are town and the people like NU trying to discredit Skynx are almost certainly going to be scum Yeah, can you please summarise/ conclude your reads in one post? I think that would help people see what your reads were. You can even just cobble your previous posts into one since you have 10 minutes left. This is something I'm not very good at. a lot of my reads I base on what I think, and researching specific examples is hard. I think out of TT/Rels/NU there is at least 1 scum. Maybe 2. TT or rels should have known better than to let this lynch go down like it did, and instead both pushed it hard. I would look at them heavily. NU's game has just been really bad all around, hard to say if its because he's bad or because he's scum though. I didn't like the way mahgrell played, and the way he's afk now but I think he's something to look at after the top 3. DF is townier than mahgrell. Foreman is angry town
(last two quotes here for future reference)
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On November 05 2016 03:38 mahrgell wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2016 03:34 darthfoley wrote:Mahrgell is always talking about what he's gonna do: he's been supposed to look into me, skynx and TT 18 hours ago. On November 04 2016 09:23 mahrgell wrote:On November 04 2016 08:29 NeverUnlucky wrote:On November 04 2016 08:26 mahrgell wrote: Okay, finished reading up on Exo.
##Vote Exo_
Writing up my reasoning in a bit.
So far I have 2 more players on my todo pile: DF and Skynx. I will probably try to squeeze those in some time after sleeping and between family ^.^ Would you kindly summarize what your reads now look like? My more recent and confident ones: Scum: Exo_ Neut: FM Townlead: Calix, NU, Rels I want to reevaluate TT, Skynx and DF next. DF posted a lot of stuff, and it seemed to not match my image of him and at some point he went completely off when accusing me. But I may be biased on the stuff he writes about me, so I have to reread his filter and I will probably focus on the stuff not concerning me to make my judgement. From first impression I would tend scumlean though.I hope to ind time tmrw for it. Skynx is Neut in my mind so far, mainly because I didn't pay much attention to his posts besides the onne paragraph directed at me. From memory he posted mostly useless stuff early, but later had 2 wot against me and 3 other players. Then his TT case. I will focus on those. (I actually wanted to do that earlier... but somehow kept busy) TT I would townlean from memory. But I want to check the case made against him. If I currently Neut Skynx, while having a scum+scumlean, this would make Skynx by process of elimination a townie and his case must have some substance. Also iirc Exo jumped on it. If it was completely fabricated, this would mean the the entire scumteam went allin here... Then again, Exo jumping on it actually makes TT and Skynx look better. But this is now too much speculation, and I will warm this up once we have a flip. Anyway... I just want to read TT again On November 04 2016 09:43 mahrgell wrote: Thanks @Calix
With that I will now finally go to sleep. As time may be rare tomorrow, who do you suggest to look into first out of TT,DF and Skynx? I guess you are valueing Skynx highly, so could you maybe give me a summary how you came to this? And then I would start with one of the other two. Probably DF, as TT seems to be tied to skynx. DF seems to be upset with me though and I don't feel like revenge reading ^.^ I doubt anything useful will come from his. On November 05 2016 02:45 mahrgell wrote: Okay, I just made it back and finished reading up. I see no reason to change my vote. Exo's posts past my case have ust reinforced my impression further. I guess we see him flip and continue from there. I finally want to dive into Skynx/DF and TT. ^.^ Should be doing that before this nights Habs game if family doesn't keep me busy. Otherwise I for sure will have it done before end of the night.
At this point I'm actually a bit surprised how I'm suddenly everybodys darling. I guess I want to look i this progression too, as I feel kinda buddied here.
Then again... lets flip Exo first... This certainly will provide interesting information. How many times can you say you're gonna filter dive before you do it? Why are you asking other people who you should look into? Why is mahrgell claiming he would be "revenge reading?" He town leans me, so why would looking through my filter be useless? These posts were made 18 hours ago, and 1 hour ago. I DO NOT LIKE Dig deeper my friend. I announced yesterday afternoon that I'm with my family from yesterday evening until saturday noon. Yes, I had another posting spree in the night, when I sneaked away. Still my activity is drastically reduced compared to the first 26 hours right now. Expect me back tomorrow as noon. And you may also continue reading up on peoples lists. I appeared as toptown and close to toptown on several lists. And I don't consider this to be a good thing, tbh.
Why don't you think that's a good thing?
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On November 05 2016 03:48 darthfoley wrote: Damn it mahrgell i was hoping you wouldn't post something pro-town
Because now you have to fake re-evaluating your reads?
I agree that mahrgell's post is extremely townie though. He's basically saying "I want to be taken seriously and don't like people using the noob card on me" which is the exact opposite of what scum in his situation would do imo.
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How do you know that HTS is the scum coach though?
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I'm not even sure if we're allowed to discuss this but meh.
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On November 05 2016 03:53 darthfoley wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2016 03:51 Calix wrote:On November 05 2016 03:48 darthfoley wrote: Damn it mahrgell i was hoping you wouldn't post something pro-town Because now you have to fake re-evaluating your reads? I agree that mahrgell's post is extremely townie though. He's basically saying "I want to be taken seriously and don't like people using the noob card on me" which is the exact opposite of what scum in his situation would do imo. Yes, I agree. I'm also somewhat between slightly and kind of annoyed that as soon as ExO flipped, almost everyone peaced
Feel free to comment on my ExO post.
I actually think TT might be mafia here. This is mostly because he never ever considered ExO's posts from a town perspective, didn't re-evaluate, has no real scum-reads outside of ExO, etc.
I'm also biased by meta because I read this game where he was stuck in a tunnel on SL and even then, he stepped back and was like "yeah I am tunneling" and tried to see his posts from a town POV but just couldn't. And there's none of that there. He just wanted ExO dead.
I'm going to reread it now and I'm aware that it's meta, but it's not a bad point imo.
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On November 05 2016 03:54 NeverUnlucky wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2016 03:52 Calix wrote: I'm not even sure if we're allowed to discuss this but meh. We're not. We can't even know if one of the noobs rolled scum. It was a joke.
If I see 'it was a joke' from you again, I'm going to throttle you.
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I really hate it when everyone just fucks off after I claim to have a scum-read.
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I would just like to say that Skynx's "ExO is town because of how he retaliated against the pushes against him" logic stretches back a long way. I'm in TT's filter and in Skynx's TT case, he criticises TT for scum-reading ExO because "he had right to do that, he got voted by someone else plus the guy making the push didn't vote for him and said he is not even scumreading him. He has to retaliate here otherwise people will accuse him for not going after shitty pushes." This means that Skynx didn't just randomly invent a reason to town-read ExO.
Also TT's point about "scum not wanting to draw attention to themselves" still doesn't make any sense. He town-reads Skynx for it (but retracts it later because 'he's self-aware about it being his town-meta'). This 'logic' leads to this delightful piece of wankery:
On November 04 2016 05:23 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2016 05:09 Calix wrote:On November 04 2016 05:04 Tictock wrote: Actually didn't someone mention that Skynx said he tries to open scummy to see who goes after him?
If that's true then I have to throw out my line of thought about his early game. Clearly scum!Skynx would try to replicate that type of play from his towngames. Eh? Your first line is correct. Skynx claims that he acts scummy to see who goes for the low-hanging fruit as a town tactic. Your conclusion is making me scratch my head. I don't see how learning about Skynx' play-style -> thinking he'd replicate it as scum -> entrance posts are null. Because I was giving his early posts a townlean because he was drawing attn to himself and scum tend to not want to do that. However if Skynx has an established meta (and more importantly is self aware of it) of playing scummy at the start of the game to draw attention then my initial thinking no longer applies. Scum!skynx would go out of his way to act scummy at the start simply to replicate that aspect of his townplay. And thinking about it more this was it would make Skynx's early posts make more sense if he is scum trying to replicate his bad start of day play. Stuff like calling the entire early game NAI, and complaining about reading constantly make a bit more sense coming from scum trolling than town trolling. However this is prob a line of thought that only makes sense to me.
The logic is absent. There are only assumptions to be found.
(also the last line hedges on his theory because even he knows how utterly moronic it is. I'm only noting this because he's been doing that hedging thing a lot)
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@Tictock
He also scum-reads ExO because 'he didn't want to draw attention to himself by only posting gifs'
What's the issue here? He somehow thinks that ExO overreacting to my question, being overly defensive and lashing out at me is something that...will NOT get ExO a shit-load of attention...?
He has to think that. Why?
- He scum-reads ExO. - He claims that scum don't like attention and that ExO didn't post gifs because he didn't want attention. - Therefore he has to think that ExO's reaction was intentionally designed to not get attention onto ExO.
Here's what I found:
On November 04 2016 06:09 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2016 06:01 Calix wrote: But how hard is it to just say something like "oh I was joking" or "I wanted to play the game properly" or something? Maybe I'm just assuming that ExO is as amazingly intelligent as I am, but that doesn't seem like a stretch for scum.
His later behaviour is more concerning to me. I don't really like it and the point which I found the most interesting from him is something that you claim was a joke. (I think) Thats actually kinda my point, town!Exo could have said the same things, or started posting gifs to joke around. What did we see? Him getting butthurt that you called him out for not posting Gifs and attacking you for it.
How does anyone think that attacking me and getting salty are things that won't draw attention to ExO?
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On November 05 2016 04:49 NeverUnlucky wrote: To be fair you've ignored Foreman and I before, so you have no right to complain now.
So instead of posting anything relevant to my case, you make an empty post. Okay.
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On November 05 2016 04:52 NeverUnlucky wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2016 04:51 Calix wrote:On November 05 2016 04:49 NeverUnlucky wrote: To be fair you've ignored Foreman and I before, so you have no right to complain now. So instead of posting anything relevant to my case, you make an empty post. Okay. Will make a proper response later, just to be busy to read your case atm
I can see why Skynx wants you dead. You just posted for the sake of posting.
Piss poor play if you're town.
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On November 05 2016 04:57 NeverUnlucky wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2016 04:52 NeverUnlucky wrote:On November 05 2016 04:51 Calix wrote:On November 05 2016 04:49 NeverUnlucky wrote: To be fair you've ignored Foreman and I before, so you have no right to complain now. So instead of posting anything relevant to my case, you make an empty post. Okay. Will make a proper response later, just to be busy to read your case atm I retract this.
Which part?
Because any response you can give to that makes you look terrible.
You're either saying "I refuse to read your case because you said I'm playing badly if town" or "I'm not actually busy"
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And you have enough time to spam, make empty posts and play anti-town but not enough time to read this:
On November 05 2016 04:46 Calix wrote:@Tictock He also scum-reads ExO because 'he didn't want to draw attention to himself by only posting gifs' What's the issue here? He somehow thinks that ExO overreacting to my question, being overly defensive and lashing out at me is something that...will NOT get ExO a shit-load of attention...? He has to think that. Why? - He scum-reads ExO. - He claims that scum don't like attention and that ExO didn't post gifs because he didn't want attention. - Therefore he has to think that ExO's reaction was intentionally designed to not get attention onto ExO. Here's what I found: Show nested quote +On November 04 2016 06:09 Tictock wrote:On November 04 2016 06:01 Calix wrote: But how hard is it to just say something like "oh I was joking" or "I wanted to play the game properly" or something? Maybe I'm just assuming that ExO is as amazingly intelligent as I am, but that doesn't seem like a stretch for scum.
His later behaviour is more concerning to me. I don't really like it and the point which I found the most interesting from him is something that you claim was a joke. (I think) Thats actually kinda my point, town!Exo could have said the same things, or started posting gifs to joke around. What did we see? Him getting butthurt that you called him out for not posting Gifs and attacking you for it. How does anyone think that attacking me and getting salty are things that won't draw attention to ExO?
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On November 05 2016 05:55 NeverUnlucky wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2016 04:59 Calix wrote:And you have enough time to spam, make empty posts and play anti-town but not enough time to read this: On November 05 2016 04:46 Calix wrote:@Tictock He also scum-reads ExO because 'he didn't want to draw attention to himself by only posting gifs' What's the issue here? He somehow thinks that ExO overreacting to my question, being overly defensive and lashing out at me is something that...will NOT get ExO a shit-load of attention...? He has to think that. Why? - He scum-reads ExO. - He claims that scum don't like attention and that ExO didn't post gifs because he didn't want attention. - Therefore he has to think that ExO's reaction was intentionally designed to not get attention onto ExO. Here's what I found: On November 04 2016 06:09 Tictock wrote:On November 04 2016 06:01 Calix wrote: But how hard is it to just say something like "oh I was joking" or "I wanted to play the game properly" or something? Maybe I'm just assuming that ExO is as amazingly intelligent as I am, but that doesn't seem like a stretch for scum.
His later behaviour is more concerning to me. I don't really like it and the point which I found the most interesting from him is something that you claim was a joke. (I think) Thats actually kinda my point, town!Exo could have said the same things, or started posting gifs to joke around. What did we see? Him getting butthurt that you called him out for not posting Gifs and attacking you for it. How does anyone think that attacking me and getting salty are things that won't draw attention to ExO? I don't have time to deal with your toxicity. Please stop trying to provoke me, I am trying to have a clean game and improve. I read your posts. I think your first point is okay, but it would be even better if you highlighted the inconsistency in TT saying that Skynx was a TR before for drawing attention to himself while he did not consider this argument when scum-reading ExO who drew a lot of attention with his claim. I think you misinterpreted his point about the gifs. From my understanding, he was saying that ExO dropped the idea of posting gifs because he had rolled mafia and did not want to be policy lynched (which I threatened him for). Also not sure what the bolded has to do there as TT only said that posting gifs was prone to drawing attention. His point never was that ExO would try to keep a low profile by not attacking anyone and whatnot.
If you were really trying to improve then you'd just shut up and do the improving instead of trying to twist my words against me. Keep that in mind.
Your second paragraph is weird. Does it matter if my point was mediocre if you agree with it for different reasoning?
TT never said anything about PLs though. He said that ExO was mafia who didn't want the attention that posting gifs and nothing else would give him.
I'm saying that TT's reason for scum-reading ExO doesn't make sense because ExO's play was clearly drawing a lot of attention to him...which TT considers a town trait...but he claims that ExO is mafia because he didn't post purely in gifs because it would draw attention to him. But ExO's 'new play' was drawing attention to him anyway...and he never considered this or think that ExO might be town for that or say "well he is drawing attention to himself but he is still mafia because X" or anything.
I just do not understand his thought process here.
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On November 05 2016 06:16 NeverUnlucky wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2016 06:02 Calix wrote:On November 05 2016 05:55 NeverUnlucky wrote:On November 05 2016 04:59 Calix wrote:And you have enough time to spam, make empty posts and play anti-town but not enough time to read this: On November 05 2016 04:46 Calix wrote:@Tictock He also scum-reads ExO because 'he didn't want to draw attention to himself by only posting gifs' What's the issue here? He somehow thinks that ExO overreacting to my question, being overly defensive and lashing out at me is something that...will NOT get ExO a shit-load of attention...? He has to think that. Why? - He scum-reads ExO. - He claims that scum don't like attention and that ExO didn't post gifs because he didn't want attention. - Therefore he has to think that ExO's reaction was intentionally designed to not get attention onto ExO. Here's what I found: On November 04 2016 06:09 Tictock wrote:On November 04 2016 06:01 Calix wrote: But how hard is it to just say something like "oh I was joking" or "I wanted to play the game properly" or something? Maybe I'm just assuming that ExO is as amazingly intelligent as I am, but that doesn't seem like a stretch for scum.
His later behaviour is more concerning to me. I don't really like it and the point which I found the most interesting from him is something that you claim was a joke. (I think) Thats actually kinda my point, town!Exo could have said the same things, or started posting gifs to joke around. What did we see? Him getting butthurt that you called him out for not posting Gifs and attacking you for it. How does anyone think that attacking me and getting salty are things that won't draw attention to ExO? I don't have time to deal with your toxicity. Please stop trying to provoke me, I am trying to have a clean game and improve. I read your posts. I think your first point is okay, but it would be even better if you highlighted the inconsistency in TT saying that Skynx was a TR before for drawing attention to himself while he did not consider this argument when scum-reading ExO who drew a lot of attention with his claim. I think you misinterpreted his point about the gifs. From my understanding, he was saying that ExO dropped the idea of posting gifs because he had rolled mafia and did not want to be policy lynched (which I threatened him for). Also not sure what the bolded has to do there as TT only said that posting gifs was prone to drawing attention. His point never was that ExO would try to keep a low profile by not attacking anyone and whatnot. If you were really trying to improve then you'd just shut up and do the improving instead of trying to twist my words against me. Keep that in mind. Your second paragraph is weird. Does it matter if my point was mediocre if you agree with it for different reasoning? TT never said anything about PLs though. He said that ExO was mafia who didn't want the attention that posting gifs and nothing else would give him. I'm saying that TT's reason for scum-reading ExO doesn't make sense because ExO's play was clearly drawing a lot of attention to him...which TT considers a town trait...but he claims that ExO is mafia because he didn't post purely in gifs because it would draw attention to him. But ExO's 'new play' was drawing attention to him anyway...and he never considered this or think that ExO might be town for that or say "well he is drawing attention to himself but he is still mafia because X" or anything. I just do not understand his thought process here. -------------------------------- I did not say that your point was mediocre, miss. c: I think it is what he implied. If you have a quote of him saying that ExO did not want attention at all, do share it. That is my point in paragraph 2. c:
Here you go:
Exo is prob scum for his reaction to Calix's questions as well as him dropping the gif stuff. Calix was right to ask him why he dropped his "I'm gunna post in mostly gifs" kus the most likely reason why he would drop that plan is if he rolled scum and decided it would draw too much attn to himself. I think the fact the he only posted the one gif kinda supports that as well.
I stand by my assessment. Him changing his stance from "I'm gunna post gifs and have fun" to "I'm gunna claim VT and get all serious about shit" is far more likely to come from someone who rolled scum and doesn't want to draw attention for posting mostly gifs.
I am going to wait for TT's response before I talk any more about this. In the meantime, how have your reads changed since ExO's lynch?
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On November 05 2016 06:17 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2016 04:46 Calix wrote:@Tictock He also scum-reads ExO because 'he didn't want to draw attention to himself by only posting gifs' What's the issue here? He somehow thinks that ExO overreacting to my question, being overly defensive and lashing out at me is something that...will NOT get ExO a shit-load of attention...? He has to think that. Why? - He scum-reads ExO. - He claims that scum don't like attention and that ExO didn't post gifs because he didn't want attention. - Therefore he has to think that ExO's reaction was intentionally designed to not get attention onto ExO. Here's what I found: On November 04 2016 06:09 Tictock wrote:On November 04 2016 06:01 Calix wrote: But how hard is it to just say something like "oh I was joking" or "I wanted to play the game properly" or something? Maybe I'm just assuming that ExO is as amazingly intelligent as I am, but that doesn't seem like a stretch for scum.
His later behaviour is more concerning to me. I don't really like it and the point which I found the most interesting from him is something that you claim was a joke. (I think) Thats actually kinda my point, town!Exo could have said the same things, or started posting gifs to joke around. What did we see? Him getting butthurt that you called him out for not posting Gifs and attacking you for it. How does anyone think that attacking me and getting salty are things that won't draw attention to ExO? My god you are digging so deep into this, and I thought we went over it already. Exo's scumread on you was pure reaction, even when I thought he was scum I thought that. I never thought it was some grandly designed post, it was basically just like the rest of Exo's reads which were just "Fuck you for scum reading me". I really don't get why this argument keeps coming up, there was a very clear difference between Exo's early posting and Skynx's early posting. I'm not going to use the same metric/logic/whatever when I feel like there is a clear difference in the posting. If you are going to keep up this line of thinking you should actually relook at their opening posts and tell me why I should have blindly used the same logic with both of them. Then you should explain why I, as scum, would even bother suggesting skynx might be town for drawing attn to himself rather than just let him draw that attn and push him along with Exo... which I did anyways. The TLDR of this is Exo's posts looked like he was just reacting and trying to step up to play seriously after you questioned him, Skynx responded to pressure with more bullshitting. Not the same posting, not using the same logic, hence my read was different. Please scum read me for better reasons, talking about the same point over and over gets old.
Your first point isn't terrible.
However that was kind of what I was going to say in response to your "why would I do X as scum" question so I don't find that part of your argument convincing whatsoever.
I'm being lazy with my response because you promised that you'd be re-evaluating after ExO flipped town and I don't care to detract from that. So please don't let me interfere. I'll figure out what you are sooner or later anyway.
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On November 05 2016 06:29 NeverUnlucky wrote: I do not think it is the right time to discuss my reads.
What? Why?
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On November 05 2016 06:36 NeverUnlucky wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2016 06:33 Calix wrote:On November 05 2016 06:29 NeverUnlucky wrote: I do not think it is the right time to discuss my reads. What? Why? Isn't it bad to discuss reads at night?
Night phase is just another day phase.
But I'm aware of the school of thought that you're using. I just disagree with it.
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On November 05 2016 06:44 Tictock wrote: Sorry to disappoint but I'm just reading to keep up atm, wont be rereading till later.
@ NU
Discussing reads at night is fine, though I'll admit sometimes it's tempting to wait for Day phase for the extra flip and thus info.
If you are of the line of thought that Scum are going to choose their NK target based on who is getting too close to the solution at night... Meh. That's actually not usually how scum pick NKs.
I guess I shall just look at Rels if you're going to be a let-down.
There's no point in me trying to evade a night kill by not solving the game. I'm Calix.
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Okay so here's what I think. I don't see anything that really gives me town vibes from Rels, he's in my POE reads and I don't really like him. Kind of want to sleep soon so have some bulletpoints:
1. He feels like he has an agenda with his posts. I get this impression from how strongly he emphasises certain points compared to others. It's like he's trying to achieve X but is also trying to hide that he's trying to achieve X. Examples that pinged me include the following
A) his town-read on me. He really wanted me to know about that. Nobody really needed like, four reasons for why I am town when nobody scum-read me at all at that point and it's not like I need to be defended. Terrible priorities at best, scum pocketing me at worst.
B) his town-read on Foreman. He defends Foreman because of his tone which I'm noting because I don't think he's ever used tone to read anyone else and he seems really invested in that read. This is a very weak point by itself but I'm wondering if it's an example of Rels showing inherent bias when reading players.
c) his discredits of Skynx. I'm referring to EOD where he was saying "well Skynx defending ExO isn't a town tell because Skynx would be aware of how that would look to everyone so it's null" which pinged me because he scum-read ExO so why the fuck would he care about how ExO read Skynx if he thinks ExO is mafia? And who thinks that saying "well this thing that you think is townie is actually null" is a good idea BEFORE someone has flipped anyway? I think Rels knew that ExO would flip town and didn't want Skynx getting town cred for defending the ML.
2. His progression with ExO/ darthfoley. While Rels is attacking darthfoley consistently, he didn't have a problem with switching to ExO by making a case. What's the problem there? ExO was already the leading train. Rels was one of the last voters. All that vote did was secure ExO's lynch and was completely pointless. His vote switch is even weirder because Rels said that ExO was 'very likely town' because of his VT claim earlier and spent a fair bit of time explaining that. And he kept that reasoning in mind but I don't get why he felt the need to switch to ExO when he had that VT claim town-read and felt that DF was scummier.
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On November 05 2016 07:28 NeverUnlucky wrote: Oh, yeah, I remember Rels asking why I had him in my tinfoil reads. It kind of ties with Calix's last post too.
Very early on, Rels said that he hated DF's first post and asked me why I had liked it (he did not explain his disliking of the post). It was only I gave my analysis of the post and pointed out the good and the bad in it that he gave his opinion. My opinion of DF changed from town-read to null-read, and I felt manipulated by Rels at the time :3
Looking over his filter, it actually very much ressembles Koshi's filter from last game in every aspect, I kid you not. Calix, agree?
If you felt manipulated by him at the time then what stopped you from saying so? And how was that manipulative in your eyes?
You're going to have to expand on that Rels/ Koshi comparison. I kind of get you but clarification would be nice. I don't fancy reading a Koshi filter if I am honest.
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On November 05 2016 07:40 NeverUnlucky wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2016 07:32 Calix wrote:On November 05 2016 07:28 NeverUnlucky wrote: Oh, yeah, I remember Rels asking why I had him in my tinfoil reads. It kind of ties with Calix's last post too.
Very early on, Rels said that he hated DF's first post and asked me why I had liked it (he did not explain his disliking of the post). It was only I gave my analysis of the post and pointed out the good and the bad in it that he gave his opinion. My opinion of DF changed from town-read to null-read, and I felt manipulated by Rels at the time :3
Looking over his filter, it actually very much ressembles Koshi's filter from last game in every aspect, I kid you not. Calix, agree? If you felt manipulated by him at the time then what stopped you from saying so? And how was that manipulative in your eyes? You're going to have to expand on that Rels/ Koshi comparison. I kind of get you but clarification would be nice. I don't fancy reading a Koshi filter if I am honest. I tinfoiled later. Koshi called you lock town very early, like Rels. I remember Koshi saying he would even town-read you if there was a red-check on ye'. Koshi asked me about my previous games, Rels too. Their tone is similar. How often they ask for others' opinion. They both write "lol" in caps (Oddly I find this scummy). That's off the top of my head.
I am confused. You say that 'I felt manipulated by him at the time' - would this not indicate that you had that feeling at the time of him making that post?
Man, how can I ever suspect a dude who says "scum!Koshi and Rels write LOL, this is scummy"? That's the most hilarious comparison.
But you make some valid comparisons, that aside.
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On November 05 2016 12:10 Foreman wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2016 11:46 darthfoley wrote:On November 05 2016 08:21 Foreman wrote: God, you guys... Talk. A. Lot.
So, Skynx got weird at end of day. NU is looking town as fuck. mahrgell is being mahrgell. TT is apparently looking at the possibility of me being scum (why, exactly?), and the rest of you are giving me a headache.
Carry on. Thanks for your summary. Really in depth I aim to impress everyone with my edge-lord personality over giving content. I live for filling up my filter with hot air with no substance to back it up.
FTFY
Funnily enough, I give less fucks about your lack of giving a fuck than you do about random players on the internet.
Play the game or eat rope. Pick one because you are the most useless dead-weight in the game and that's saying a lot. Where the fuck is your pride? You're getting blown out of the water by Skynx and NU of all people. How do you even live with yourself?
On November 04 2016 00:04 Foreman wrote: ##Vote: Skynx
I've yet to see one productive post from this guy, and it's hard to remember that he's even in the game.
Quoting this Skynx vote as a monumental testament to irony.
Instead of wasting your precious time with "lol whatever idgaf what you think, you don't understand my story, this is the real me mam" maybe make a case against someone? I have not seen that since Page 1 of your filter and I can't remember a single read from you. You have five pages of filter and there's no impact with it. How exactly have you helped town again?
Given that you're the same person who was giving mahrgell shit about 'not giving original reads' this is odd to say the least.
(this isn't a 'case', just a 'stop talking shit and start doing shit' post)
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That's a strong case against Skynx, especially Point 3. I can relate to the point about Skynx not seeming to care that one of his few town-reads was dying given that he wasn't trying to push another wagon.
That is pretty similar to his scum game where he just yelled at people to lynch Vivax/ ExO but didn't actually push for their lynches. Hmm.
It's making me doubt myself now though. I don't think Rels/ Skynx is a thing because Rels trying to downplay the town cred that Skynx would get from defending ExO makes no sense as a scum/ scum interaction.
So I am tempted to reconsider my Rels read.
However he hasn't even turned up yet so I'd like a response to my post against him first so that I can judge properly.
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By the way mahrgell, what did you think of my Rels case? I'm only really asking because I'm going to die in like, three hours so I'd like an answer before then and you haven't talked about him much as of late.
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As it stands, this is my shit-list. I think that my reasoning for town-reading the other three hold up fairly well:
Rels Skynx Foreman darthfoley
I'm too lazy to reiterate my Rels read so here's the post again.
+ Show Spoiler +On November 05 2016 07:12 Calix wrote: Okay so here's what I think. I don't see anything that really gives me town vibes from Rels, he's in my POE reads and I don't really like him. Kind of want to sleep soon so have some bulletpoints:
1. He feels like he has an agenda with his posts. I get this impression from how strongly he emphasises certain points compared to others. It's like he's trying to achieve X but is also trying to hide that he's trying to achieve X. Examples that pinged me include the following
A) his town-read on me. He really wanted me to know about that. Nobody really needed like, four reasons for why I am town when nobody scum-read me at all at that point and it's not like I need to be defended. Terrible priorities at best, scum pocketing me at worst.
B) his town-read on Foreman. He defends Foreman because of his tone which I'm noting because I don't think he's ever used tone to read anyone else and he seems really invested in that read. This is a very weak point by itself but I'm wondering if it's an example of Rels showing inherent bias when reading players.
c) his discredits of Skynx. I'm referring to EOD where he was saying "well Skynx defending ExO isn't a town tell because Skynx would be aware of how that would look to everyone so it's null" which pinged me because he scum-read ExO so why the fuck would he care about how ExO read Skynx if he thinks ExO is mafia? And who thinks that saying "well this thing that you think is townie is actually null" is a good idea BEFORE someone has flipped anyway? I think Rels knew that ExO would flip town and didn't want Skynx getting town cred for defending the ML.
2. His progression with ExO/ darthfoley. While Rels is attacking darthfoley consistently, he didn't have a problem with switching to ExO by making a case. What's the problem there? ExO was already the leading train. Rels was one of the last voters. All that vote did was secure ExO's lynch and was completely pointless. His vote switch is even weirder because Rels said that ExO was 'very likely town' because of his VT claim earlier and spent a fair bit of time explaining that. And he kept that reasoning in mind but I don't get why he felt the need to switch to ExO when he had that VT claim town-read and felt that DF was scummier.
I agree with a lot of what mahrgell said about Skynx. I don't really have anything new to add there aside from my "Rels/ Skynx is probably not a thing" point.
Foreman's content has been underwhelming, overly hyperbolic, his filter largely consists of check-in posts and forgettable reads, hasn't made a proper case against anyone since Page 1 (unless his weird Skynx interaction counts??) The only 'town motivation' that I can see for his filter is 'MS player who is more used to having two-week-long game days'. That's not even a 'town motivation' as much as it is a reason for why his filter isn't as terrible as it would otherwise look to me.
I won't lie. I haven't properly analysed darthfoley in forever. I just get bored while reading him for some reason and wake up half an hour later and realise I'm still on Page 1.
However I find these succession of posts to be hilarious:
On November 05 2016 03:53 darthfoley wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2016 03:51 Calix wrote:On November 05 2016 03:48 darthfoley wrote: Damn it mahrgell i was hoping you wouldn't post something pro-town Because now you have to fake re-evaluating your reads? I agree that mahrgell's post is extremely townie though. He's basically saying "I want to be taken seriously and don't like people using the noob card on me" which is the exact opposite of what scum in his situation would do imo. Yes, I agree. I'm also somewhat between slightly and kind of annoyed that as soon as ExO flipped, almost everyone peaced
On November 05 2016 11:46 darthfoley wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2016 08:21 Foreman wrote: God, you guys... Talk. A. Lot.
So, Skynx got weird at end of day. NU is looking town as fuck. mahrgell is being mahrgell. TT is apparently looking at the possibility of me being scum (why, exactly?), and the rest of you are giving me a headache.
Carry on. Thanks for your summary. Really in depth
On November 05 2016 21:40 darthfoley wrote: Gonna be gone until late afternoon. Football game yo
^^^literal definition of 'peacing out' bitches.
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Wait, why do you town-read Skynx?
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On November 05 2016 22:44 NeverUnlucky wrote: i cant read the posts you link from liquiddota dude
what concerns do you share in skynx case on me? because the only point he raises is that i leave "empty votes" and if you read the thread progression instead of just my filter, you would know in what context i voted for whom i voted which in itself denies the empty vote point
i think skynx is very likely scum for the reasons you noted (which actually are the points i made on skynx at eod) plus for the fact that he should know that i am 100% not getting lynched, so making a case on me is making him look productive when he s actually not doing shit
On November 05 2016 23:26 NeverUnlucky wrote: 4) Is actually a very good point. If he was so sure about ExO being town, he would have tried to form an alternative wagon, not say that he'll try to convince others during the night.
I don't find 1 to be a compelling argument.
mahr, during eod, you said that ExO's lynch was going to be informative Why? What information did you get out of it?
On November 06 2016 00:01 NeverUnlucky wrote: I town-read DF, and don't think Skynx is mafia. I think the scum-team is Foreman and Rels.
???????
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Uh no. Explain your read progression. That is a massive flip with NO explanation and I'm not letting that slip by.
Every single time someone's called you out for being contradictory, you just say "lol yeah I know" instead of explaining it. That is TERRIBLE play. If you're town, rectify it please instead of just acknowledging it and acting like it's not a big deal.
That is fucking ridiculous, not to mention scummy as fuck.
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All he ever did was to fight on battle fields where the battle was already over.
Good quote.
If we agree that Skynx/ Rels has a mafia among them then I think we should wagon the two of them tomorrow. Unless anyone has any objections to this plan then I think this is a good direction to kick off Day 2 with. I really doubt either of them are going to die tonight.
I don't think both of them are scum because then the rationale would look something like this:
Skynx: Yo, I'm going to hard-defend ExO's wagon. Rels: kk just don't do it too much or you might end up with a messy CFD and ruin the planned ML. Skynx: This is going to get me all the town credz. Rels: Nah, I'll just say that your defense is NAI and shouldn't be used to town-read you. cuz distancing or something.
Just doesn't make sense for scum!Rels to scupper the main motivation for white-knighting as scum...at the expense of Skynx being in the spotlight, you know?
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On November 06 2016 00:11 NeverUnlucky wrote: There is no progression, Calix. I'm just trusting my gut over logic. The points I made and agreed with are very much valid, I just don't think he is mafia atm. Same with ExO and Palmar. The points made against them were very good, but in the end, I chose to trust my gut/emotional read over my logic.
Call it scummy all you want, you know it's how I play.
That's not my point. You switched from "very likely mafia" to "don't think he's mafia" - you literally said that you thought he was very likely to flip red and then switched without anything happening in between.
That's not "I liked the case but my gut tells me he is town" which would have been fine.
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On November 06 2016 01:01 Tictock wrote:Humm reading Darth's filter I kinda like him less. Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 05:30 darthfoley wrote:
Foreman completely writing off Calix basically because of one push is helping town at all. Seems like uber tunneling that never actually helps town. Don't see any post so far that screams scum SO hard that I wouldn't entertain the possibility that my read on someone was wrong. Seems a bit scummy to me, especially D1. I agree with Skynx that the votes so far have been really dumb and useless drama
Calix is a slight town read to me currently. I agreed that Skynx's posts were useless until he posted about the votes.
This early read on Foreman is really odd, just kinda rambly and the two bolded lines both contradict each other and add nothing. I also noticed that Darth made posts all day long about Exo being scum. Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 09:04 darthfoley wrote: I also find it weird that
1. ExO came in 2. Got scum read and pressured 3. Weak case on Calix 4. Other people came in, namely NU, and changed the conversation 5. ExO peaced out and the current 1v1s are NU vs. Calix, Foreman vs. mahrgell 6. People seemingly forget about ExO Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 12:30 darthfoley wrote: ExO's filter is also relatively assheeks. I need Rels in the building Show nested quote +On November 04 2016 03:01 darthfoley wrote: If ExO continues to be this underwhelming and inactivate I think I'd be okay with an exO lynch But only joins the wagon after making a big post about why he doesn't think I'm scum anymore and that Exo is the better lynch. Kinda feels like he just kept this scumread on Exo in his back pocket, bringing it out when useful but not committing to it till it became clear that Exo was going to be lynched. Unfortunately I didn't find anything that really makes me think he is either town or scum. Just this stuff that stands out as kinda weird to me. Moving Darth to a solid null read.
1. I don't see a contradiction in those two lines that you quoted. Isn't he saying "I don't see any posts that would make me think anyone is lock scum. Therefore Foreman thinking that Calix is lock scum, especially on D1, is a bit scummy to me."
That's how I read them anyway.
2. A better point. I'll await darthfoley's explanation here.
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Man, having half the players not even do anything during the night phase is tilting.
This is totally not a page-top post.
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Anyway, I think I'm a pretty good NK target so I'll just say this:
1. Wagon Rels/ Skynx tomorrow. Rels has been under no pressure the entire game so even if you're not convinced that he's mafia, it's still a good move to pressure him alongside Skynx and see who fares better. Two wagons is ALWAYS better than one.
I will note that Skynx promised to make some cases on TT/ NU during the night phase but he didn't. Did he even post at all during the night phase?
2. Foreman needs to step it the fuck up tomorrow or else he can die. If Skynx/ Rels end up being super-townie then I would probably lynch him as a rough guideline.
3. I'm confident in my TT/ mahrgell town-reads. I really hope these two work together and bounce reads off each other. You can add in NU because I do think he's town if you tally everything up but he's playing really poorly so my suspicions of him won't go away. I don't know what is up there.
4. It's a good idea to properly reread darthfoley. I'm seeing a lot of "he's okay/ lean-town but I haven't properly reread him" from players (myself included, lol) so make sure that this gets done! It's not a good idea to let him slip through the cracks especially given his N1 posts.
5. Hypothetically speaking, I think Cop claiming mid-way through Day 2 if they have a red check is optimal play here for the sake of information. I'll be doing this if I'm Cop and survive and whatnot. If the target is getting voted/ widely-suspected without the claim then don't bother though.
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To add to my darthfoley note, he has pushed TT and mahrgell and still seems to suspect mahrgell the last time I checked. (aside from that one post where his response was "lol why did you have to make that pro-town post?" or something like that)
The fact that he doesn't see what I see in them is concerning.
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Did I mention that having half the players not do anything during N1 is annoying? It really is.
I'm going to die over a bunch of lazy, apathetic, no-posting shitters and none of you are going to even read my filter afterwards.
At least I can rave in the observers QT with disformation and ExO and that other dude.
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On November 06 2016 02:54 NeverUnlucky wrote: *yawn* Calix saying I'm playing poorly when 2/3 of her cases were on her town-reads zzz
Why do you propose Skynx and Rels who you don't think are a team and keep Foreman as a reserve wagon? I'd lynch Foreman first thing tomorrow personally.
How retarded do you have to be to ask that? I want to pressure both to see who the mafia among them is...?
You are asking the dumbest questions.
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And yes, you are playing like absolute crap. This is undeniable. Everyone agrees with me here. It's not just me being a dick. Deal with it.
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On November 06 2016 02:58 NeverUnlucky wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2016 02:56 Calix wrote:On November 06 2016 02:54 NeverUnlucky wrote: *yawn* Calix saying I'm playing poorly when 2/3 of her cases were on her town-reads zzz
Why do you propose Skynx and Rels who you don't think are a team and keep Foreman as a reserve wagon? I'd lynch Foreman first thing tomorrow personally.
How retarded do you have to be to ask that? I want to pressure both to see who the mafia among them is...? You are asking the dumbest questions. lmao "pressure rels, he has not had much pressure" Foreman was not pressured either, yet you don't propose wagoning him while he's done jackshit. I hope you are night killed, honestly.
The blatant stupidity continues. If I think one of them is mafia then I'm going to want to pressure both.
Simple as that.
I literally said "lynch Foreman if Skynx/ Rels are town"
Your reading is so poor.
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Looks like I'll just be teaming up with TT then. He seems to have screwed his head back on.
##vote Rels
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I don't know how much to read into the night kill, so this is mostly a speculative post.
However I find it notable that darthfoley was suspecting mahrgell for most of the game, then seemed to move away from that scum-read of him at night time and then mahrgell was shot.
As for what mahrgell said, he did make that Skynx case, agreed that Rels was also scummy (especially if Skynx flips town) and that Foreman needed to die due to his lack of a town agenda.
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On November 06 2016 03:21 NeverUnlucky wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2016 03:09 NeverUnlucky wrote:On November 06 2016 03:05 cakepie wrote: NeverUnlucky is officially warned for posting at XX:00 and will receive a warning PM.
You may now proceed. Pretty sure that was XX:06 ... ... ... Nevermind, the first post has a timestamp of XX:00. Warning accepted. Can you not put this many links in the vote count? It took me 10 minutes to delete them all, zzz. ExO_ (6) : NeverUnlucky,]Tictock, NeverUnlucky, NeverUnlucky,mahrgell, Foreman, Calix,Rels,darthfoley Tictock (1) : Skynx, darthfoley, ExO_Skynx (1) : Foreman, NeverUnluckyNeverUnlucky (1) : Calix, Skynx, Skynx Calix (0) : ExO_, Foreman, NeverUnlucky, NeverUnluckydarthfoley (0) : Foreman (0) : mahrgellmahrgell (0) : ForemanCalix,NeverUnlucky, darthfoleyRels (0) : Calix
Thanks, that is surprisingly considerate of you.
This isn't a VCA. I can't do those. I'm just giving my thoughts.
Given that I believe TT is town, it is all but confirmed that there is a scum at the end of the ExO wagon. Given that Rels/ darthfoley made unnecessarily long posts condemning ExO before voting, I'm going to look into those again.
Foreman's vote is quite bad. He just said "oh I'll be more productive" and voted ExO during their argument. Very difficult to hold him accountable for that vote when he didn't really give any reasoning for it.
This is really bad the more I think about it. He wasn't involved in the TT vs ExO debate and when I asked him for his opinion HE SAID THAT HE WAS LIKING EXO FOR TOWN. His only post involving ExO between that and his vote is him going "I disagree with your reads" (which cannot be interpreted as a scum read)
I can only conclude that he voted for someone that he town-read. And he never saw it fit to explain why he did that.
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On November 04 2016 08:01 Foreman wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2016 07:45 Calix wrote:On November 04 2016 07:38 Foreman wrote:On November 04 2016 06:31 Calix wrote:On November 04 2016 06:23 Foreman wrote:On November 04 2016 06:12 Calix wrote:On November 04 2016 06:09 Tictock wrote:On November 04 2016 06:01 Calix wrote: But how hard is it to just say something like "oh I was joking" or "I wanted to play the game properly" or something? Maybe I'm just assuming that ExO is as amazingly intelligent as I am, but that doesn't seem like a stretch for scum.
His later behaviour is more concerning to me. I don't really like it and the point which I found the most interesting from him is something that you claim was a joke. (I think) Thats actually kinda my point, town!Exo could have said the same things, or started posting gifs to joke around. What did we see? Him getting butthurt that you called him out for not posting Gifs and attacking you for it. I feel like this is going around in circles. It's clear that you think that's a scummy reaction from ExO and I disagree. I think we should move on since this thread is blowing up. Thoughts on Foreman? I'm still thinking this could be TvT and thus I find him sitting in the background to be conspicuous. I go a few hours without posting because I have shit to do and I'm sitting in the background? Lulz. Well in my opinion, you weren't posting a lot. Fine by itself. But you were just talking about stuff which wasn't related to the main discussion at hand until recently. That stood out to me especially because I think it's two townies fighting. Thus someone ignoring it looks weird and like they don't want to take a side in it since either of them being lynched helps scum. So yes, my logic is pretty good, I'd say. I'd say you're logic is pretty trash because there are dynamics between those two that I'm not familiar with so me jumping in the middle would only muddy the waters. "not familiar with" If they were discussing a meta reference then I would believe this. However they weren't. Everything that was discussed with ExO/ TT was sourced from the game thread. Why would the dynamics be unfamiliar to you? Regardless of your response, what DID you make of ExO/ TT? You do realize that meta isn't the only thing that carries over between games, yes? Personality conflicts and how they resolve (or not) can also be alignment indicative if people are familiar with those clashing. If I were to get in the middle of TT/ExO, it could have interfered with the ability to read them. I prefer to wait until things resolve and then chime in to avoid that. That said, I am likiing ExO for town. I don't understand why TT has votes, it's something I'll need to read up on later tonight. 17% battery is telling me nou.
So here's the quote chain where I call him out for not getting involved in TT vs ExO (so you can see his reasoning)
Here you can see him say "I am liking ExO for town"
So he goes on and says "I don't think TT would post "Rels what happened to you? Your play the past few games is like your heart just isn't in it anymore" if he was scum" (I don't understand how this makes TT town tbh lol but whatever)
On November 04 2016 08:48 Foreman wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2016 08:42 ExO_ wrote: NU is actively borrowing his reads for rels in an attempt to push me, with Marhgwell being 3rd on a wagon.
Marhgwell is scum, and probably NU I disagree with both of your scumreads. Mahrgell's flip on me looked like an honest reassessment. If he was scum, he could have accused me of AtE and used my reach out as grounds to double down on me. NU... I don't get why you think he's scum.
Here's the ONE post he had where he says that he disagrees with ExO.
On November 04 2016 08:53 Foreman wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2016 08:51 ExO_ wrote:On November 04 2016 08:48 Foreman wrote:On November 04 2016 08:42 ExO_ wrote: NU is actively borrowing his reads for rels in an attempt to push me, with Marhgwell being 3rd on a wagon.
Marhgwell is scum, and probably NU I disagree with both of your scumreads. Mahrgell's flip on me looked like an honest reassessment. If he was scum, he could have accused me of AtE and used my reach out as grounds to double down on me. NU... I don't get why you think he's scum. What do you think of Mahgrell voting me without giving his reasoning just now? What about NU literally taking the words out of rels mouth as a reason to push me, even though rels didn't see it as a reason to scum read me. foreman read the damn thread. And do something to help town. What did this post accomplish here? What did you disagreeing with me (in a bad way) accomplish? N O T H I N G My bad, let me be more productive, then. ##Vote: ExO_
And then he just leaves this salty-ass vote on ExO???
I will say that I completely missed the rest of the context though. Foreman goes on and says this:
On November 04 2016 08:58 Foreman wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2016 08:55 ExO_ wrote:On November 04 2016 08:53 Foreman wrote:On November 04 2016 08:51 ExO_ wrote:On November 04 2016 08:48 Foreman wrote:On November 04 2016 08:42 ExO_ wrote: NU is actively borrowing his reads for rels in an attempt to push me, with Marhgwell being 3rd on a wagon.
Marhgwell is scum, and probably NU I disagree with both of your scumreads. Mahrgell's flip on me looked like an honest reassessment. If he was scum, he could have accused me of AtE and used my reach out as grounds to double down on me. NU... I don't get why you think he's scum. What do you think of Mahgrell voting me without giving his reasoning just now? What about NU literally taking the words out of rels mouth as a reason to push me, even though rels didn't see it as a reason to scum read me. foreman read the damn thread. And do something to help town. What did this post accomplish here? What did you disagreeing with me (in a bad way) accomplish? N O T H I N G My bad, let me be more productive, then. ##Vote: ExO_ for what reason? Why do you think I'm scum? You're flat out lying about me and attempting to intimidate me, for one thing. For another, your scumreads are trash and consist of two people pushing you. Because y'know, the entire scum team is going to throw everything they have into a d1 mislynch.
But this is actually even worse because his first comment is total bullshit and he doubles down on this awful reasoning which ExO correctly calls him out for.
So make of that what you will.
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Fuck, didn't add my elaborated reasoning.
What I meant to say was this:
"But this is actually even worse because his first comment is total bullshit and he doubles down on this awful reasoning which ExO correctly calls him out for. It gives me the impression that he voted for the band-wagon first without thinking about it and made up reasoning for it later. In no world does one deduce that ExO was 'flat-out lying and attempting to intimidate him' from what ExO said."
This is what ExO said beforehand, just for reference. Where are the lies? How does one find this intimidating...?
What do you think of Mahgrell voting me without giving his reasoning just now? What about NU literally taking the words out of rels mouth as a reason to push me, even though rels didn't see it as a reason to scum read me.
foreman read the damn thread. And do something to help town. What did this post accomplish here? What did you disagreeing with me (in a bad way) accomplish?
N O T H I N G
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I actually think your case would be stronger if you included the relevant posts. I am curious as to how you think your argument develops when you take these into account:
On November 05 2016 02:11 Rels wrote: Now I know that it is super annoying to play as town when everybody is scumreading you. I know you're having a bad town if you're town. But I think you're scum.
On November 05 2016 02:21 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2016 02:15 NeverUnlucky wrote:On November 05 2016 01:35 Skynx wrote: Summary
Very town: mahg Townlean: Exo, Calix Not read at all: darth Bad but not thoroughly read:Foreman Nullish cuz neither town nor scum but bad: Rels Scum: TT, NU
I pushed mahg earlier, his respons I liked. His lists later on I liked. He's not overly spammy. He's the most town imo.
Exo's retaliation is a towntell from my perspective as he's been sr'd by almost everyone in the game, some of which for very bad reasons or no reasons at all. Its his right to retaliate. However not much arguments otherise, he's just been defending all game, I've been in this situation and can sympathise.
This to me looks like white-knighting. He gives a reason that I don't think warrants a town-read. I'm inclined to think that ExO is town and Skynx is scum with both their latest posts in mind. I agree that Skynx townread of ExO is weird as hell. But I don't agree that we can say anything about ExO from Skynx' townread. If Skynx is scum he knows fully well how his attitude looks like, so it's WIFOM to conclude anything from it. Like, it's not like Skynx would become confirmed town if ExO flipped town.
On November 05 2016 02:56 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2016 02:53 ExO_ wrote:On November 05 2016 02:50 Calix wrote:On November 05 2016 02:47 ExO_ wrote: Calix/Skynx any questions you have please ask me, before I flip as town please ask now. I will try my best to answer quickly. I'm 100% sure you two are town and the people like NU trying to discredit Skynx are almost certainly going to be scum Yeah, can you please summarise/ conclude your reads in one post? I think that would help people see what your reads were. You can even just cobble your previous posts into one since you have 10 minutes left. This is something I'm not very good at. a lot of my reads I base on what I think, and researching specific examples is hard. I think out of TT/Rels/NU there is at least 1 scum. Maybe 2. TT or rels should have known better than to let this lynch go down like it did, and instead both pushed it hard. I would look at them heavily. NU's game has just been really bad all around, hard to say if its because he's bad or because he's scum though. I didn't like the way mahgrell played, and the way he's afk now but I think he's something to look at after the top 3. DF is townier than mahgrell. Foreman is angry town I'm tired of seeing this. I only started pushing you as my main scumread a few hours ago. You even scumread me for not having a strong scumread on you yesterday. That makes another thing that is not consistent with your reads actually. I'm having doubts but I think you'll flip scum. I don't think i'll shennannie.
I'm being vague because I'm not sure if I'm just seeing things.
(aside from his second post where he tries to throw shade on any town-reads that Skynx could have gotten from white-knighting. Like just look at that post. Look at what Rels is trying to achieve with that post. Doesn't look good, does it?)
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Also I like this version of NU. I'll stop insulting you since I don't have that many town-reads left.
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On November 06 2016 04:29 NeverUnlucky wrote:No, these posts don't really support my argument of him digging for reasons to still scum-read ExO after Exy appeared towny. They're still interesting to look at. I have very mixed feelings on the first quote. I think it's townie because he tries to empathize with someone he is getting lynched. Scum tend to be more reasonable and hide their emotions to keep their credibility, so I don't think they'd make that post. However, I also think it's scummy because of the wording of the "But I think you're scum." I don't know if y'all have the same feeling as I have, but I don't think he even believes himself there. The wording is too strange. Weak argument on that post: + Show Spoiler +He says "I know you're having a bad town if you're town." The fact that he wrote town twice makes me think that he knows that ExO is town. But that's put-in-spoiler-weak. Dunno what to make of the second and third quote, but I understand your reasoning. I don't like how he uses WIFOM as an argument though. That's too easy.
Oh yeah, Rels definitely has the most interesting EOD presence of all the players in the game. Not even a question.
I didn't like the "but I think you're scum" because it reads like he wants his cake and eat it too with how he treats ExO. And it's unnecessary to add because we can already infer that he thinks he's scum from what he's posted.
I can bring up more of the Skynx quotes if you'd like.
WIFOM is lame. Post speculation is way more fun.
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On November 06 2016 04:36 NeverUnlucky wrote:Actually I don't quite understand your reasoning for the second quote. If Rels is mafia, wouldn't he want to antagonize Skynx by saying that he is white-knighting instead of saying that it is WIFOM? Show nested quote +On November 06 2016 04:17 Calix wrote: Also I like this version of NU. I'll stop insulting you since I don't have that many town-reads left. I made some much better posts day 1. Kind of sucks that you're only recognizing my play now that I make 2 contributive posts. :/
You're no mind-reader.
Well my point is that Rels is trying to nip the "Skynx could be town for blatantly defending ExO" argument in the bud, thus making him look worse, so not sure I follow.
I found the quotes. Not as many of them as I remembered there being though. I still don't see what purpose these posts have other than to say "Skynx doesn't get town points for defending ExO"
On November 05 2016 02:21 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2016 02:15 NeverUnlucky wrote:On November 05 2016 01:35 Skynx wrote: Summary
Very town: mahg Townlean: Exo, Calix Not read at all: darth Bad but not thoroughly read:Foreman Nullish cuz neither town nor scum but bad: Rels Scum: TT, NU
I pushed mahg earlier, his respons I liked. His lists later on I liked. He's not overly spammy. He's the most town imo.
Exo's retaliation is a towntell from my perspective as he's been sr'd by almost everyone in the game, some of which for very bad reasons or no reasons at all. Its his right to retaliate. However not much arguments otherise, he's just been defending all game, I've been in this situation and can sympathise.
This to me looks like white-knighting. He gives a reason that I don't think warrants a town-read. I'm inclined to think that ExO is town and Skynx is scum with both their latest posts in mind. I agree that Skynx townread of ExO is weird as hell. But I don't agree that we can say anything about ExO from Skynx' townread. If Skynx is scum he knows fully well how his attitude looks like, so it's WIFOM to conclude anything from it. Like, it's not like Skynx would become confirmed town if ExO flipped town.
Here he says "we cannot infer anything about ExO's alignment from Skynx defending him" and "Skynx would not become confirmed town if ExO is town because of WIFOM"
On November 05 2016 02:48 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2016 02:45 ExO_ wrote: Okay I'm back home I'm going to try to type things out as fast as I can.
CALIX listen to me. Skynx is town. There is no way he comes in and town reads me at EoD as scum. It's too risky. You two need to lead the town here That is pretty false. Scum do this kind of thing all the time. It doesn't mean anything
Here he says "scum do this kind of thing [town-reading townies at EOD] all the time"
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On November 06 2016 04:53 NeverUnlucky wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2016 04:46 Calix wrote:On November 06 2016 04:36 NeverUnlucky wrote:Actually I don't quite understand your reasoning for the second quote. If Rels is mafia, wouldn't he want to antagonize Skynx by saying that he is white-knighting instead of saying that it is WIFOM? On November 06 2016 04:17 Calix wrote: Also I like this version of NU. I'll stop insulting you since I don't have that many town-reads left. I made some much better posts day 1. Kind of sucks that you're only recognizing my play now that I make 2 contributive posts. :/ You're no mind-reader. ???? Show nested quote +Well my point is that Rels is trying to nip the "Skynx could be town for blatantly defending ExO" argument in the bud, thus making him look worse, so not sure I follow.
You're no mind-reader. If you look at the nested quote, I suggest that Skynx is scum white-knighting ExO. Rels responds that we cannot conclude anything from Skynx's read on ExO. If he was scum, wouldn't he say: "OH YEAH! THIS IS WHITE-KNIGHTING, SKYNX IS SCUM!"?
He says that we can't conclude anything ABOUT EXO from Skynx's read. I read that as Rels trying to keep the wagon on ExO.
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On November 06 2016 04:56 NeverUnlucky wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2016 04:55 Calix wrote:On November 06 2016 04:53 NeverUnlucky wrote:On November 06 2016 04:46 Calix wrote:On November 06 2016 04:36 NeverUnlucky wrote:Actually I don't quite understand your reasoning for the second quote. If Rels is mafia, wouldn't he want to antagonize Skynx by saying that he is white-knighting instead of saying that it is WIFOM? On November 06 2016 04:17 Calix wrote: Also I like this version of NU. I'll stop insulting you since I don't have that many town-reads left. I made some much better posts day 1. Kind of sucks that you're only recognizing my play now that I make 2 contributive posts. :/ You're no mind-reader. ???? Well my point is that Rels is trying to nip the "Skynx could be town for blatantly defending ExO" argument in the bud, thus making him look worse, so not sure I follow.
You're no mind-reader. If you look at the nested quote, I suggest that Skynx is scum white-knighting ExO. Rels responds that we cannot conclude anything from Skynx's read on ExO. If he was scum, wouldn't he say: "OH YEAH! THIS IS WHITE-KNIGHTING, SKYNX IS SCUM!"? He says that we can't conclude anything ABOUT EXO from Skynx's read. I read that as Rels trying to keep the wagon on ExO. Then that's a pretty good point.
Why thank you.
Unless you have anything else to add, I think we should stop posting for now and let the others chip in. Only so much that we can get done by ourselves. While I think our conversation was pretty productive, I don't want to spam out the lurkers.
(also I need to go out soon, lol)
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On November 06 2016 08:21 Tictock wrote: Humm not the NK I was expecting, probably a medic dodge or summin.
Is it weird that gell's death makes me less sure Skynx is scum?
Like in the case that Skynx is town then mafia killing someone pushing Skynx makes it look like he got killed for being on the right track. I've also been wondering if scum!Skynx would actually stick his neck out so far with the whole TRing Exo thing.
Idk, I'm deep in WIFOM territory on this one. Take it as you will.
I actually feel more convinced that Skynx is scum given the increasing body of evidence against him. It's hard to tell given that the three main suspects have yet to defend themselves.
I liked DF's recent posts enough to take him out of my shit-list.
While I'm here, can you expand more on your Rels read? If you have other priorities then don't bother but I feel like I am too focused on Rels > Skynx and you said that you town-read him so I'd love to hear what you think.
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Alright, so here's an idea that I just thought of.
I was rereading my case on Foreman and noticed my comment about "I think ExO/ TT is TvT and Foreman is just sitting on the sidelines"
Well I am back to thinking that it was a TvT, so it looks like I was spot-on with my comment about Foreman ignoring that shit-show.
Want to know what he WAS doing?
Arguing with Skynx.
I don't know if that's relevant or not in terms of either of them being scum or whatever so I decided to quote those Skynx/ Foreman posts for reference.
+ Show Spoiler +On November 04 2016 00:04 Foreman wrote: ##Vote: Skynx
I've yet to see one productive post from this guy, and it's hard to remember that he's even in the game. On November 04 2016 01:18 Foreman wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2016 00:14 Skynx wrote:On November 04 2016 00:04 Foreman wrote: ##Vote: Skynx
I've yet to see one productive post from this guy, and it's hard to remember that he's even in the game. I'm here, still reading all the shitty posts unfortunately and that takes time. Also, congratz for exposing yourself for going after a low-hanging fruit. Seriously? Who calls themselves low hanging fruit? That's such a crap defense. I'd have expected reasons for his lack of activity and dismissive posts, but he's coming across as "expect this all the time". On November 04 2016 05:34 Foreman wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2016 04:01 darthfoley wrote: Why'd you change your vote off of mahrgell to Skynx?
Mahrgell is still sus, I just realized that Skynx had been posting a bunch of nothingness and wanted him to step up his game. Then that icky post where he calls himself low hanging fruit made my vote stickier. On November 04 2016 05:36 Foreman wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2016 04:13 Skynx wrote:On November 04 2016 01:18 Foreman wrote:On November 04 2016 00:14 Skynx wrote:On November 04 2016 00:04 Foreman wrote: ##Vote: Skynx
I've yet to see one productive post from this guy, and it's hard to remember that he's even in the game. I'm here, still reading all the shitty posts unfortunately and that takes time. Also, congratz for exposing yourself for going after a low-hanging fruit. Seriously? Who calls themselves low hanging fruit? That's such a crap defense. I'd have expected reasons for his lack of activity and dismissive posts, but he's coming across as "expect this all the time". Stand by the facts. I was just an emo at this point to most people including you. Just before i posted some actual reads. I was the definition of low hanging fruit. Thats not a defence, thats an accusation for you going for someone whos just raging about the game rather than post your thoughts on actual playing people some of which you were definitely scumreading at this point. Bullshit. You were active lurking. You got called out on active lurking. You decided you better do something to avoid scrutiny. On November 04 2016 06:02 Foreman wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2016 05:41 Calix wrote: Foreman, can you give your thoughts on Skynx' wall-posts?
As for ExO, I missed #600. I'm not sure I agree. He says "I think ExO is scum but if he isn't then he's only a VT and is useless so he can die"
He thinks you're scum, ergo you're lying about being VT. All he does is rule out the possibility of you being TPR. I don't see inconsistency here. His wall posts don't line up with the mindset of somebody that considers themselves low hanging fruit. On November 04 2016 06:07 Foreman wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2016 06:03 ExO_ wrote:On November 04 2016 06:02 Foreman wrote:On November 04 2016 05:41 Calix wrote: Foreman, can you give your thoughts on Skynx' wall-posts?
As for ExO, I missed #600. I'm not sure I agree. He says "I think ExO is scum but if he isn't then he's only a VT and is useless so he can die"
He thinks you're scum, ergo you're lying about being VT. All he does is rule out the possibility of you being TPR. I don't see inconsistency here. His wall posts don't line up with the mindset of somebody that considers themselves low hanging fruit. What is this supposed to accomplish? He's not allowed to start posting things b/c he at one point in the game considered himself low hanging fruit? No. I'm saying he was obviously lying when he called himself low-hanging fruit, and that he made that remark instead of simply explaining why he was busy or what have you makes him scum.
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However Foreman's behaviour around Skynx/ Rels is really weird.
He doesn't mention Rels at ALL.
Seriously.
He has five fucking pages of filter and it's like Rels doesn't exist to him.
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On November 06 2016 09:15 Calix wrote: However Foreman's behaviour around Skynx/ Rels is really weird.
He doesn't mention Rels at ALL.
Seriously.
He has five fucking pages of filter and it's like Rels doesn't exist to him.
This is actually pretty important because he called out darthfoley for having Foreman as 'most town' but he doesn't even acknowledge Rels strongly town-reading him because of tone.
It's not a massive contradiction or anything but you'd think that he would have said something.
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If we're all in agreement that Foreman is scum then I'm voting for him. Not going to get fancy here. I just want scum dead.
##vote Foreman
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On November 06 2016 09:35 NeverUnlucky wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2016 09:29 Calix wrote: If we're all in agreement that Foreman is scum then I'm voting for him. Not going to get fancy here. I just want scum dead.
##vote Foreman Just to make sure we're on the same page: I'm not really in agreement that Foreman is scum as I am not 100% convinced yet. He's like my Damdred read from last game: I found him scummy when he was there, and because he ditched us, he looks scummier and stays in the PoE pool. I would not call him obvious scum like Jat basically.
I'm not 100% convinced either. I am just voting the one dude that all three of us suspect given that we are split on Skynx/ Rels/ DF.
Seems like optimal strategy to me.
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On November 06 2016 10:19 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2016 09:29 Calix wrote: If we're all in agreement that Foreman is scum then I'm voting for him. Not going to get fancy here. I just want scum dead.
##vote Foreman Yea I'm For this... ##vote Foreman
You're almost as much of a dork as disformation. That's quite the feat.
NU makes yet another valid point. I feel like that's becoming redundant with Skynx, lol.
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On November 06 2016 10:44 NeverUnlucky wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2016 10:24 Calix wrote:On November 06 2016 10:19 Tictock wrote:On November 06 2016 09:29 Calix wrote: If we're all in agreement that Foreman is scum then I'm voting for him. Not going to get fancy here. I just want scum dead.
##vote Foreman Yea I'm For this... ##vote Foreman You're almost as much of a dork as disformation. That's quite the feat. NU makes yet another valid point. I feel like that's becoming redundant with Skynx, lol. Am I tunneling? o.o Show nested quote +On November 06 2016 10:31 Tictock wrote:On November 06 2016 09:43 darthfoley wrote:On November 06 2016 08:56 Tictock wrote:On November 06 2016 08:23 Calix wrote:On November 06 2016 08:21 Tictock wrote: Humm not the NK I was expecting, probably a medic dodge or summin.
Is it weird that gell's death makes me less sure Skynx is scum?
Like in the case that Skynx is town then mafia killing someone pushing Skynx makes it look like he got killed for being on the right track. I've also been wondering if scum!Skynx would actually stick his neck out so far with the whole TRing Exo thing.
Idk, I'm deep in WIFOM territory on this one. Take it as you will. I actually feel more convinced that Skynx is scum given the increasing body of evidence against him. It's hard to tell given that the three main suspects have yet to defend themselves. I liked DF's recent posts enough to take him out of my shit-list. While I'm here, can you expand more on your Rels read? If you have other priorities then don't bother but I feel like I am too focused on Rels > Skynx and you said that you town-read him so I'd love to hear what you think. I actually don't like Darth's posts at all. It falls right in line with how I think scum would play if gell was killed to implicate Skynx. Idk tbh I'm starting to feel like this game is pretty solved from my POV, I just need to make sure I can backup my TR of Rels a little better, but my PoE is down to Skynx/Darth/Foreman. If skynx is scum his play has been just shit all game. I'd like you to expand on what parts of my posts you don't like. My thoughts on the mahrgell kill are that he was spewing town and had been universally townread (his last posts got me off of him). I made the point earlier that I thought mafia would try to buddy the first timer, and I think mahrgell picked up on that. I'm also town because I clicked through your 40 spoilers Lol Ok you prob deserve some cred for that. Actually looking over your posts again you do make pretty decent points. Let me ride this train of thought a bit longer though, I'm having fun with it. bruh
You're certainly not achieving anything new.
We cannot make proper progress until the three main suspects pop online. I'm getting bored of waiting.
TT looking at Rels is the only other thing I am waiting for atm.
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On November 07 2016 01:30 darthfoley wrote: Also ##Vote: Skynx
Can those voting Foreman explain why you're all Foreman > Skynx in this situation? The case on Skynx is much stronger
I'm basically voting him over Skynx because that was the one read that NU/ TT and myself could agree on. TT still seems to have some doubts with regards to Skynx due to NK WIFOM/ doubts over wherever scum!Skynx would be so blatant/ not trusting you, etc.
Don't you think that Skynx/ Foreman is the scum team though? I think it's Foreman and Skynx/ Rels although given the sheer volume of posts against Skynx, looks like a shoe-in.
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On November 07 2016 01:40 darthfoley wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2016 01:32 Calix wrote:On November 07 2016 01:30 darthfoley wrote: Also ##Vote: Skynx
Can those voting Foreman explain why you're all Foreman > Skynx in this situation? The case on Skynx is much stronger I'm basically voting him over Skynx because that was the one read that NU/ TT and myself could agree on. TT still seems to have some doubts with regards to Skynx due to NK WIFOM/ doubts over wherever scum!Skynx would be so blatant/ not trusting you, etc. Don't you think that Skynx/ Foreman is the scum team though? I think it's Foreman and Skynx/ Rels although given the sheer volume of posts against Skynx, looks like a shoe-in. Yea, I believe Skynx/Foreman is the most likely duo and I believe any potential blue check type role would be advised to check one of them who isn't lynched. Skynx/Rels we've discussed would make less sense, I believe? Rels/Foreman? Maybe. Also, can you and/or NU briefly explain or point me to a post regarding why you're so confident in TT being town? I understand you have this three person town circle going on, but why TT?
The reason I asked was because if you think it's Skynx/ Foreman then it doesn't particularly matter which one dies first. And you yourself agree that Skynx/ Rels doesn't make sense so voting for the person who is mafia in the most worlds is a good move.
Because TT's play has been congruent and every time I try reading his filter as if he's mafia I end up having to make the facts fit my conclusion and every single case against him (including my own) has been a stretch.
(also I looked up his scum games. Completely different persona and his play is less shitty in this game so unless he has drastically upped his game then he is likely town)
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Agreed. This activity is more of a mood-killer than depression.
Hopefully Rels/ Skynx will ACTUALLY POST NOW and this game will become a game again.
At least we have the town circle thing. That's pretty much the only thing that's been useful about Day 2 so far.
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On November 07 2016 07:11 NeverUnlucky wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2016 07:08 Calix wrote: Agreed. This activity is more of a mood-killer than depression.
Hopefully Rels/ Skynx will ACTUALLY POST NOW and this game will become a game again.
At least we have the town circle thing. That's pretty much the only thing that's been useful about Day 2 so far. This town circle was formed day 1 though. So, uh, what does DF being removed from your 'shit list' mean? ie what is your read on him?
He might be scum if 2/3 of Foreman/ Skynx/ Rels are just Tier 1 shitters. However I don't know what his game plan is if he is mafia but he's not exceptionally townie either so I take everything he says with a pinch of salt.
Something like that.
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So I read the entire thing and I'm not sure what to make of it. I'll reread in the morning in case I'm just missing anything because I'm tired but my initial impressions are this:
1. I didn't understand most of it very well. 2. I thought a bunch of the defense went off-topic and didn't add anything whatsoever. 3. I didn't feel any townie motivation shine through in the posts and it was boring. By boring, I mean that I have to keep scrolling up to remember what Skynx said even though I just read and reread it twice before making this fucking response. 4. A lot of it felt debate-orientated to me. (ties in with point 2)
+ Show Spoiler +Also this is a moonlogic-tier point but I find it scummy when people switch from using "mahrgell" in the third person to "you" when addressing mahrgell in the way that Skynx did. I could tell people why but nobody would have a clue what I was on about. So I'll just leave this here.
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What exactly are you doing next, Skynx? Run me through what you're going to post next and why plz. Or just get on with whatever you're going to post next. Either works.
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On November 07 2016 08:58 NeverUnlucky wrote: Will Foreman get modkilled if he does not post in the next 3 hours? His last post was posted 45h ago.
If so, we might want to switch wagon. But we're in LyLo if Foreman is town.
Stop trying to use the host as a function of the game, for fuck's sake.
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Skynx's #1260 reminds me of Koshi's posting in LYLO. Just made giant wall-posts against BM with one-liner responses to most of the posts in his filter (although most of them don't actually show scum motivation???) and even the conclusion to the post sucks.
Also he's ignoring the fact that people have already given town tells for NU.
But what does it for me is that Skynx walks in, doesn't try reconsidering his read on NU at all, is claiming that NU has not made a single townie post in his filter (this is inaccurate) and is trying to throw doubt in the town circle. That's pushing a mafia agenda. I would be willing to switch to him now given that I'm not seeing town motivation in anything he's said. In fact, I'm going to do just that:
##vote Skynx
Also I didn't like some of Rels' posts. But I'm starting to think that he's just shit instead of scummy.
On November 07 2016 09:32 Rels wrote: I don't have a lot of reasons to scumread Foreman. But I have reasons to townread everyone else to varying degrees (or in DF case, I don't think he can be Skynx partner) and my tone read of Foreman at the beginning of the game doesn't hold up to the amount of nothing he's doing right now. The only thing that is maybe scummy is that he had only weak interactions with Skynx at some points, but there is a lot of Skynx talk in his filter: he voted him, and he had several posts that either talked about him, or talked about people read of Skynx. Can't remember who posted that first but I read something about it when catching up and it's true. Might be a partner tell but it's quite weak.
Did you not read my damning post on Foreman's AWFUL read progression with regards to ExO??? And he switched to ExO after 'pushing' on Skynx so if Skynx is scum then that looks even worse. I can see him trying to distance from Skynx before switching votes before Skynx could actually be at risk of getting lynched.
+ Show Spoiler +(By the way, DF was the dude who talked about Skynx/ Foreman interactions)
Secondly, this 'case' against me (for lack of a better word) is absolute shite.
On November 07 2016 09:51 Rels wrote:Now regarding Calix. I think she's town. If I'm wrong on Foreman though I think she could be scum. First because I townread TT and NU more than her and I don't think DF is partner with Skynx. And second because I didn't like the feeling from two of her posts. To explain, I felt like she was trying to set up things in the future without being too obvious about it. In spoiler the posts that inspired me this feeling: + Show Spoiler +On November 05 2016 02:55 Calix wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2016 02:54 ExO_ wrote: If there is one thing you do please listen to me:
You need to figure out the scum out of Rels/TT/NU
They are going to try to push suspicion on to people like skynx here. Do not let them. I'm speaking to all of you town, figure out which one of them is scum and lynch them These kinds of posts are making me think ExO is town. Fuck. I'll just say that if you are town then I'll keep this in mind. This is the one that made me think that in the first place. On November 05 2016 03:40 Calix wrote:Alright, finished looking through ExO's filter. He was a bit frazzled at EOD and his reads shifted quite rapidly (understandable) so it's hard for me to pin down the finer details of his reads but it's obvious that he hard town-read Calix/ Skynx, town-reads Foreman and thinks 1-2 scum are among TT/ Rels/ NU at the very least. I've copied some quotes of his. I'd like some comments on them + Show Spoiler [TT VT claim] +On November 04 2016 05:58 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2016 05:55 Calix wrote:On November 04 2016 05:53 ExO_ wrote:On November 04 2016 05:49 Calix wrote:On November 04 2016 05:44 ExO_ wrote:On November 04 2016 05:41 Calix wrote: Foreman, can you give your thoughts on Skynx' wall-posts?
As for ExO, I missed #600. I'm not sure I agree. He says "I think ExO is scum but if he isn't then he's only a VT and is useless so he can die"
He thinks you're scum, ergo you're lying about being VT. All he does is rule out the possibility of you being TPR. I don't see inconsistency here. Or I'm lying about being VT to get scum to not mess with me on day 1. However look at the way he posts. He knows I'm only VT. You need to learn to read between the lines. Mafia are never going to come into the thread and announce they are mafia How would scum!TT know that you, the town!ExO, is telling the truth and that you're not a TPR exactly? I don't follow the "he knows I'm only VT" part. He wouldn't. However, he would had no problem killing me if he's scum (especially if he's scum and suspect I'm a power role). Does this make sense to you or do I need to break it down entirely? ELI5 I'm running into a problem that is rare for me - I have way too many town-reads. Needless to say, I'm having a hard time here. Scum TT knows who his scum buddy is, and who is town. He sees I claim VT. He knows that by killing me he'll either kill a VT (in which case he can claim "he was being worthless for town and it was good to get him out now, blah blah blah), or he'll kill a town power role and again blame it on my play. He claims that I'm either scum or VT. This is a call that nobody who is town will make. Because if a town player believes my VT claim then I cannot be scum. However if a town player doubts my VT claim then I might be power role and they might not wanna lynch me. The only people who would want to lynch me right now for the logic TT is presenting, are scum. This might become a valid argument now that we know that ExO was town. + Show Spoiler [Foreman town-read] +On November 04 2016 07:42 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2016 07:36 Rels wrote: ExO, the only thing that keeps me from tunneling you into oblivion is your explanation of the VT thing. Please answer me about why your foreman read changed without reason between now and yesterday because if I was scum and foreman, I wouldn't be half-assing it like he is. I check to make sure what I'm posting lines up with everything else posted so far. If he's scum and not reading something he's directly posting about then it's poor scum play imo. The tone of his posts comes across as lazy half-assing towny rather than scummy to me (here for future reference) + Show Spoiler [Foreman 'intimidation' point] +On November 04 2016 09:06 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2016 09:04 Foreman wrote:On November 04 2016 08:59 ExO_ wrote:On November 04 2016 08:58 Foreman wrote:On November 04 2016 08:55 ExO_ wrote:On November 04 2016 08:53 Foreman wrote:On November 04 2016 08:51 ExO_ wrote:On November 04 2016 08:48 Foreman wrote:On November 04 2016 08:42 ExO_ wrote: NU is actively borrowing his reads for rels in an attempt to push me, with Marhgwell being 3rd on a wagon.
Marhgwell is scum, and probably NU I disagree with both of your scumreads. Mahrgell's flip on me looked like an honest reassessment. If he was scum, he could have accused me of AtE and used my reach out as grounds to double down on me. NU... I don't get why you think he's scum. What do you think of Mahgrell voting me without giving his reasoning just now? What about NU literally taking the words out of rels mouth as a reason to push me, even though rels didn't see it as a reason to scum read me. foreman read the damn thread. And do something to help town. What did this post accomplish here? What did you disagreeing with me (in a bad way) accomplish? N O T H I N G My bad, let me be more productive, then. ##Vote: ExO_ for what reason? Why do you think I'm scum? You're flat out lying about me and attempting to intimidate me, for one thing. For another, your scumreads are trash and consist of two people pushing you. Because y'know, the entire scum team is going to throw everything they have into a d1 mislynch. how exactly am I lying about you? or attempting to intimidate you? Aren't you supposed to be mr.coldnotaffectedbyonlinepersonalities guy No, I'm Mr. Distantandunintentionallytreatpeoplelikepixelsuntiligettoknowthem guy. You are lying about me doing nothing in my disagreement with you. Before you say you weren't, be a pal and quote where i stated my thoughts on Mahrgell's flip prior to that post. Otherwise, admit that you were simply trying to intimidate me into thinking I was being worthless. ...what? are you delusional? Like legitimately are you delusional? Nothing I've done has been even close to intimidation. And nothing I've done has even been close to lying. You're literally bordering on actually being delusional While ExO town-read him, I think this post is interesting because it's an example of Foreman being hyperbolic with poor reasoning. + Show Spoiler [TT read progression read] +On November 04 2016 14:36 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2016 14:30 Tictock wrote:On November 04 2016 06:11 ExO_ wrote:On November 04 2016 06:09 Tictock wrote:On November 04 2016 06:01 Calix wrote: But how hard is it to just say something like "oh I was joking" or "I wanted to play the game properly" or something? Maybe I'm just assuming that ExO is as amazingly intelligent as I am, but that doesn't seem like a stretch for scum.
His later behaviour is more concerning to me. I don't really like it and the point which I found the most interesting from him is something that you claim was a joke. (I think) Thats actually kinda my point, town!Exo could have said the same things, or started posting gifs to joke around. What did we see? Him getting butthurt that you called him out for not posting Gifs and attacking you for it. Starting a discussion is EXACTLY what town wants to do. And its exactly what I did. Implying that I wouldn't do that is town is at best misleading. What I did drew a lot of attention to me, you really think thats what I would do as scum? Instead of posting a few gifs and joking around a bit? please. Lynch TT its so obvious at this point Cute... but you really never did anything with that now did you? On November 03 2016 15:11 ExO_ wrote: I'm tired. I just got home. I don't feel like reading through the read. But I'll tell you my thoughts in a nutshell from the point I left.
I jumped on to Calix initially and continued to pressure him(her?) long after I thought she was scum. I do think the way he entered the thread was dumb and likely to inflame me. But his responses afterwards seemed very much from a towny perspective. I continued the pressure to see who would jump on the bandwagon with me in an attempt to press low hanging fruit.
I'll look at it tomorrow, but NeverUnlucky/foreman are both going to be the first people I look at. Your follow up to this was voting me kus you liked Skynx's case and think he is a cool guy. Now it seems like you've forgotten you even scumread me. On November 04 2016 08:42 ExO_ wrote: NU is actively borrowing his reads for rels in an attempt to push me, with Marhgwell being 3rd on a wagon.
Marhgwell is scum, and probably NU And apparently everyone who is voting you is also scum, so your reads are just OMGUS. On November 04 2016 09:16 ExO_ wrote: Darthfoley/Skynk have the shortest filters and might be good places to look as well. Going off filter length NU/Calix shouldn't be scum because they are so far and above everyone else. I'd find it hard to be posting that much as scum Which is now effectively half the game being thrown in for good measure. I guess Skynx is also not a cool guy anymore either. you are cherry picking my filter, without following any of the progression of it. Why? I think you are trying to tilt me. It's not going to work Need to reread the chat to see if ExO is onto something here so I'll just leave this here for now. + Show Spoiler [Skynx town/ meta read] +On November 05 2016 02:48 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2016 02:47 Calix wrote:On November 05 2016 02:45 ExO_ wrote: Okay I'm back home I'm going to try to type things out as fast as I can.
CALIX listen to me. Skynx is town. There is no way he comes in and town reads me at EoD as scum. It's too risky. You two need to lead the town here While I can conclude that the white-knighting accusations would draw attention to him because he is black-sheeping, surely that can be dismissed with WIFOM, no? If you are town then it's similar to what he did last game with Lunatic. Do you have any other reasons to town-read him? I don't think it's like what he did with lunatic. Not on Day 1. Not like this. And I don't think he'd make the same play back to back like that. It's not smart. Also he wasn't the first person to really start pushing that luna might be town. Here he comes in at the very end saying I might be town. Its too risky as scum. He is not scum, do NOT let the others convince you he is + Show Spoiler [Reads list] +On November 05 2016 02:53 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2016 02:50 Calix wrote:On November 05 2016 02:47 ExO_ wrote: Calix/Skynx any questions you have please ask me, before I flip as town please ask now. I will try my best to answer quickly. I'm 100% sure you two are town and the people like NU trying to discredit Skynx are almost certainly going to be scum Yeah, can you please summarise/ conclude your reads in one post? I think that would help people see what your reads were. You can even just cobble your previous posts into one since you have 10 minutes left. This is something I'm not very good at. a lot of my reads I base on what I think, and researching specific examples is hard. I think out of TT/Rels/NU there is at least 1 scum. Maybe 2. TT or rels should have known better than to let this lynch go down like it did, and instead both pushed it hard. I would look at them heavily. NU's game has just been really bad all around, hard to say if its because he's bad or because he's scum though. I didn't like the way mahgrell played, and the way he's afk now but I think he's something to look at after the top 3. DF is townier than mahgrell. Foreman is angry town (last two quotes here for future reference) Here I thought that looked like a beginning of push on TT, with justification from a dead player filter. And after that she pushed TT. Voilà. The way she pushed TT during the night is weird to me, I had the feeling while I was catching up that she was preparing her TT push even during EOD, and that it was too clean to be town; starting with quoting the soon-to-be-lynched- ExO during EOD, then quoting his posts during the night, then beginning the push. I actually thought I had caught her with these two posts during my catching up. But then TT responded and she began to townread him. And that was townie; why would she prepare such a good execution for her push during the night, then letting it all go after a few TT posts ? So I don't really believe she's scum anymore.
USING THE POSTS OF A LYNCHED PLAYER TO INFORM YOUR READS IS PRO-TOWN, LOL. How on Earth does anyone think that's scummy?
That's literally what people should be doing after a mislynch since a) you know that they were being honest with their arguments and thus you can assess them without being paranoid, b) you can see (to an extent) how people treated the MLed player and see if anyone's behaviour (hint, Foreman, hint) doesn't make much sense and c) helps you to re-evaluate which is something that I've been trying to work on for the entire fucking game.
I stopped pushing TT given that a) he was correct that my point against him was strained and b) that was around the time I checked up on his scum meta and realised it didn't match up with his play this game, therefore I concluded that he just sucks.
Secondly, that whole "trying to set things up without looking like she's doing that" point is something I said about you first. Why do you continue to ignore my points against you? I'd expect a bit of paranoia about "Calix is trying to get a ML on me" given that I pushed you AFTER TT. Instead you completely ignore the fact that I cased you at all. You didn't acknowledge my vote on you on D1, preferring to say "lol do you have a reason to scum-read me outside of activity?" (when nobody had mentioned your activity???) and there is zero concern over the fact that I made an actual fucking case on you N1...or the fact that I keep voting for you.
Why didn't you respond to that first thing? Why wasn't that a factor that made you 'concerned' about me?
(thirdly, I've been extremely townie the entire game and the only reason that people are still paranoid is because of my last scum game even though I'm acting completely differently, wtf)
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On November 07 2016 18:04 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2016 17:23 Calix wrote:On November 07 2016 09:32 Rels wrote: I don't have a lot of reasons to scumread Foreman. But I have reasons to townread everyone else to varying degrees (or in DF case, I don't think he can be Skynx partner) and my tone read of Foreman at the beginning of the game doesn't hold up to the amount of nothing he's doing right now. The only thing that is maybe scummy is that he had only weak interactions with Skynx at some points, but there is a lot of Skynx talk in his filter: he voted him, and he had several posts that either talked about him, or talked about people read of Skynx. Can't remember who posted that first but I read something about it when catching up and it's true. Might be a partner tell but it's quite weak. Did you not read my damning post on Foreman's AWFUL read progression with regards to ExO??? And he switched to ExO after 'pushing' on Skynx so if Skynx is scum then that looks even worse. I can see him trying to distance from Skynx before switching votes before Skynx could actually be at risk of getting lynched. + Show Spoiler +(By the way, DF was the dude who talked about Skynx/ Foreman interactions) I don't think his read progression on exo was awful. Let me find your post. OK I disagree that his reasonning was awful, when he's saying ExO is scumreading anyone that dares scumreading him he's right. But the part where he goes "You're flat out lying about me and attempting to intimidate me, for one thing." is pretty weird that's true. Show nested quote +On November 07 2016 17:23 Calix wrote:Secondly, this 'case' against me (for lack of a better word) is absolute shite. On November 07 2016 09:51 Rels wrote:Now regarding Calix. I think she's town. If I'm wrong on Foreman though I think she could be scum. First because I townread TT and NU more than her and I don't think DF is partner with Skynx. And second because I didn't like the feeling from two of her posts. To explain, I felt like she was trying to set up things in the future without being too obvious about it. In spoiler the posts that inspired me this feeling: + Show Spoiler +On November 05 2016 02:55 Calix wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2016 02:54 ExO_ wrote: If there is one thing you do please listen to me:
You need to figure out the scum out of Rels/TT/NU
They are going to try to push suspicion on to people like skynx here. Do not let them. I'm speaking to all of you town, figure out which one of them is scum and lynch them These kinds of posts are making me think ExO is town. Fuck. I'll just say that if you are town then I'll keep this in mind. This is the one that made me think that in the first place. On November 05 2016 03:40 Calix wrote:Alright, finished looking through ExO's filter. He was a bit frazzled at EOD and his reads shifted quite rapidly (understandable) so it's hard for me to pin down the finer details of his reads but it's obvious that he hard town-read Calix/ Skynx, town-reads Foreman and thinks 1-2 scum are among TT/ Rels/ NU at the very least. I've copied some quotes of his. I'd like some comments on them + Show Spoiler [TT VT claim] +On November 04 2016 05:58 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2016 05:55 Calix wrote:On November 04 2016 05:53 ExO_ wrote:On November 04 2016 05:49 Calix wrote:On November 04 2016 05:44 ExO_ wrote:On November 04 2016 05:41 Calix wrote: Foreman, can you give your thoughts on Skynx' wall-posts?
As for ExO, I missed #600. I'm not sure I agree. He says "I think ExO is scum but if he isn't then he's only a VT and is useless so he can die"
He thinks you're scum, ergo you're lying about being VT. All he does is rule out the possibility of you being TPR. I don't see inconsistency here. Or I'm lying about being VT to get scum to not mess with me on day 1. However look at the way he posts. He knows I'm only VT. You need to learn to read between the lines. Mafia are never going to come into the thread and announce they are mafia How would scum!TT know that you, the town!ExO, is telling the truth and that you're not a TPR exactly? I don't follow the "he knows I'm only VT" part. He wouldn't. However, he would had no problem killing me if he's scum (especially if he's scum and suspect I'm a power role). Does this make sense to you or do I need to break it down entirely? ELI5 I'm running into a problem that is rare for me - I have way too many town-reads. Needless to say, I'm having a hard time here. Scum TT knows who his scum buddy is, and who is town. He sees I claim VT. He knows that by killing me he'll either kill a VT (in which case he can claim "he was being worthless for town and it was good to get him out now, blah blah blah), or he'll kill a town power role and again blame it on my play. He claims that I'm either scum or VT. This is a call that nobody who is town will make. Because if a town player believes my VT claim then I cannot be scum. However if a town player doubts my VT claim then I might be power role and they might not wanna lynch me. The only people who would want to lynch me right now for the logic TT is presenting, are scum. This might become a valid argument now that we know that ExO was town. + Show Spoiler [Foreman town-read] +On November 04 2016 07:42 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2016 07:36 Rels wrote: ExO, the only thing that keeps me from tunneling you into oblivion is your explanation of the VT thing. Please answer me about why your foreman read changed without reason between now and yesterday because if I was scum and foreman, I wouldn't be half-assing it like he is. I check to make sure what I'm posting lines up with everything else posted so far. If he's scum and not reading something he's directly posting about then it's poor scum play imo. The tone of his posts comes across as lazy half-assing towny rather than scummy to me (here for future reference) + Show Spoiler [Foreman 'intimidation' point] +On November 04 2016 09:06 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2016 09:04 Foreman wrote:On November 04 2016 08:59 ExO_ wrote:On November 04 2016 08:58 Foreman wrote:On November 04 2016 08:55 ExO_ wrote:On November 04 2016 08:53 Foreman wrote:On November 04 2016 08:51 ExO_ wrote:On November 04 2016 08:48 Foreman wrote:On November 04 2016 08:42 ExO_ wrote: NU is actively borrowing his reads for rels in an attempt to push me, with Marhgwell being 3rd on a wagon.
Marhgwell is scum, and probably NU I disagree with both of your scumreads. Mahrgell's flip on me looked like an honest reassessment. If he was scum, he could have accused me of AtE and used my reach out as grounds to double down on me. NU... I don't get why you think he's scum. What do you think of Mahgrell voting me without giving his reasoning just now? What about NU literally taking the words out of rels mouth as a reason to push me, even though rels didn't see it as a reason to scum read me. foreman read the damn thread. And do something to help town. What did this post accomplish here? What did you disagreeing with me (in a bad way) accomplish? N O T H I N G My bad, let me be more productive, then. ##Vote: ExO_ for what reason? Why do you think I'm scum? You're flat out lying about me and attempting to intimidate me, for one thing. For another, your scumreads are trash and consist of two people pushing you. Because y'know, the entire scum team is going to throw everything they have into a d1 mislynch. how exactly am I lying about you? or attempting to intimidate you? Aren't you supposed to be mr.coldnotaffectedbyonlinepersonalities guy No, I'm Mr. Distantandunintentionallytreatpeoplelikepixelsuntiligettoknowthem guy. You are lying about me doing nothing in my disagreement with you. Before you say you weren't, be a pal and quote where i stated my thoughts on Mahrgell's flip prior to that post. Otherwise, admit that you were simply trying to intimidate me into thinking I was being worthless. ...what? are you delusional? Like legitimately are you delusional? Nothing I've done has been even close to intimidation. And nothing I've done has even been close to lying. You're literally bordering on actually being delusional While ExO town-read him, I think this post is interesting because it's an example of Foreman being hyperbolic with poor reasoning. + Show Spoiler [TT read progression read] +On November 04 2016 14:36 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2016 14:30 Tictock wrote:On November 04 2016 06:11 ExO_ wrote:On November 04 2016 06:09 Tictock wrote:On November 04 2016 06:01 Calix wrote: But how hard is it to just say something like "oh I was joking" or "I wanted to play the game properly" or something? Maybe I'm just assuming that ExO is as amazingly intelligent as I am, but that doesn't seem like a stretch for scum.
His later behaviour is more concerning to me. I don't really like it and the point which I found the most interesting from him is something that you claim was a joke. (I think) Thats actually kinda my point, town!Exo could have said the same things, or started posting gifs to joke around. What did we see? Him getting butthurt that you called him out for not posting Gifs and attacking you for it. Starting a discussion is EXACTLY what town wants to do. And its exactly what I did. Implying that I wouldn't do that is town is at best misleading. What I did drew a lot of attention to me, you really think thats what I would do as scum? Instead of posting a few gifs and joking around a bit? please. Lynch TT its so obvious at this point Cute... but you really never did anything with that now did you? On November 03 2016 15:11 ExO_ wrote: I'm tired. I just got home. I don't feel like reading through the read. But I'll tell you my thoughts in a nutshell from the point I left.
I jumped on to Calix initially and continued to pressure him(her?) long after I thought she was scum. I do think the way he entered the thread was dumb and likely to inflame me. But his responses afterwards seemed very much from a towny perspective. I continued the pressure to see who would jump on the bandwagon with me in an attempt to press low hanging fruit.
I'll look at it tomorrow, but NeverUnlucky/foreman are both going to be the first people I look at. Your follow up to this was voting me kus you liked Skynx's case and think he is a cool guy. Now it seems like you've forgotten you even scumread me. On November 04 2016 08:42 ExO_ wrote: NU is actively borrowing his reads for rels in an attempt to push me, with Marhgwell being 3rd on a wagon.
Marhgwell is scum, and probably NU And apparently everyone who is voting you is also scum, so your reads are just OMGUS. On November 04 2016 09:16 ExO_ wrote: Darthfoley/Skynk have the shortest filters and might be good places to look as well. Going off filter length NU/Calix shouldn't be scum because they are so far and above everyone else. I'd find it hard to be posting that much as scum Which is now effectively half the game being thrown in for good measure. I guess Skynx is also not a cool guy anymore either. you are cherry picking my filter, without following any of the progression of it. Why? I think you are trying to tilt me. It's not going to work Need to reread the chat to see if ExO is onto something here so I'll just leave this here for now. + Show Spoiler [Skynx town/ meta read] +On November 05 2016 02:48 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2016 02:47 Calix wrote:On November 05 2016 02:45 ExO_ wrote: Okay I'm back home I'm going to try to type things out as fast as I can.
CALIX listen to me. Skynx is town. There is no way he comes in and town reads me at EoD as scum. It's too risky. You two need to lead the town here While I can conclude that the white-knighting accusations would draw attention to him because he is black-sheeping, surely that can be dismissed with WIFOM, no? If you are town then it's similar to what he did last game with Lunatic. Do you have any other reasons to town-read him? I don't think it's like what he did with lunatic. Not on Day 1. Not like this. And I don't think he'd make the same play back to back like that. It's not smart. Also he wasn't the first person to really start pushing that luna might be town. Here he comes in at the very end saying I might be town. Its too risky as scum. He is not scum, do NOT let the others convince you he is + Show Spoiler [Reads list] +On November 05 2016 02:53 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2016 02:50 Calix wrote:On November 05 2016 02:47 ExO_ wrote: Calix/Skynx any questions you have please ask me, before I flip as town please ask now. I will try my best to answer quickly. I'm 100% sure you two are town and the people like NU trying to discredit Skynx are almost certainly going to be scum Yeah, can you please summarise/ conclude your reads in one post? I think that would help people see what your reads were. You can even just cobble your previous posts into one since you have 10 minutes left. This is something I'm not very good at. a lot of my reads I base on what I think, and researching specific examples is hard. I think out of TT/Rels/NU there is at least 1 scum. Maybe 2. TT or rels should have known better than to let this lynch go down like it did, and instead both pushed it hard. I would look at them heavily. NU's game has just been really bad all around, hard to say if its because he's bad or because he's scum though. I didn't like the way mahgrell played, and the way he's afk now but I think he's something to look at after the top 3. DF is townier than mahgrell. Foreman is angry town (last two quotes here for future reference) Here I thought that looked like a beginning of push on TT, with justification from a dead player filter. And after that she pushed TT. Voilà. The way she pushed TT during the night is weird to me, I had the feeling while I was catching up that she was preparing her TT push even during EOD, and that it was too clean to be town; starting with quoting the soon-to-be-lynched- ExO during EOD, then quoting his posts during the night, then beginning the push. I actually thought I had caught her with these two posts during my catching up. But then TT responded and she began to townread him. And that was townie; why would she prepare such a good execution for her push during the night, then letting it all go after a few TT posts ? So I don't really believe she's scum anymore. USING THE POSTS OF A LYNCHED PLAYER TO INFORM YOUR READS IS PRO-TOWN, LOL. How on Earth does anyone think that's scummy? That's literally what people should be doing after a mislynch since a) you know that they were being honest with their arguments and thus you can assess them without being paranoid, b) you can see (to an extent) how people treated the MLed player and see if anyone's behaviour (hint, Foreman, hint) doesn't make much sense and c) helps you to re-evaluate which is something that I've been trying to work on for the entire fucking game. I stopped pushing TT given that a) he was correct that my point against him was strained and b) that was around the time I checked up on his scum meta and realised it didn't match up with his play this game, therefore I concluded that he just sucks. This has nothing to do with my post. My post is saying that the way you created your push on TT seems fabricated. Show nested quote +On November 07 2016 17:23 Calix wrote: Secondly, that whole "trying to set things up without looking like she's doing that" point is something I said about you first. Why do you continue to ignore my points against you? I'd expect a bit of paranoia about "Calix is trying to get a ML on me" given that I pushed you AFTER TT. Instead you completely ignore the fact that I cased you at all. You didn't acknowledge my vote on you on D1, preferring to say "lol do you have a reason to scum-read me outside of activity?" (when nobody had mentioned your activity???) and there is zero concern over the fact that I made an actual fucking case on you N1...or the fact that I keep voting for you.
Why didn't you respond to that first thing? Why wasn't that a factor that made you 'concerned' about me? I've seen nothing that needed answers on your posts on me, only shitty narratives. Please repost things that you expected me to answer to. Show nested quote +On November 07 2016 17:23 Calix wrote: (thirdly, I've been extremely townie the entire game and the only reason that people are still paranoid is because of my last scum game even though I'm acting completely differently, wtf) I disagree that you've been extremely townie. You had a couple of towntells but you're nowhere near lock town.
It's not 'pretty weird', it's complete bullshit. Please enlighten me on how anyone could infer that from what ExO said.
"seems fabricated" - I made one post, he responded and then I dropped it. Prior to that, I told ExO that I would consider his points if he was town and quoted some ExO posts. My response is 100% relevant because it's explaining the logic behind doing that.
If you actually thought that my posts were 'shitty narratives' then you would have said as much. Thinking that my points against you suck =/= flat-out ignoring them. You also ignored the discussion about you between NU and myself. One moment while I find the quotes.
What happened to "approaching lock town" then "Calix having a lot of town-reads is townie because she wouldn't have a problem finding lynch-baits to push" then...? You clearly thought that I was extremely townie at one point, lmao.
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And again, if you thought that the following post was shitty then why wouldn't that be part of your "Calix could be scum" narrative...? Did you think it was shitty in a town-motivated way or what?
(also I'd like your response to the discussion about it that followed + the discussion that followed on from when NU said "Rels' reaction to ExO at EOD was suspicious")
On November 05 2016 07:12 Calix wrote: Okay so here's what I think. I don't see anything that really gives me town vibes from Rels, he's in my POE reads and I don't really like him. Kind of want to sleep soon so have some bulletpoints:
1. He feels like he has an agenda with his posts. I get this impression from how strongly he emphasises certain points compared to others. It's like he's trying to achieve X but is also trying to hide that he's trying to achieve X. Examples that pinged me include the following
A) his town-read on me. He really wanted me to know about that. Nobody really needed like, four reasons for why I am town when nobody scum-read me at all at that point and it's not like I need to be defended. Terrible priorities at best, scum pocketing me at worst.
B) his town-read on Foreman. He defends Foreman because of his tone which I'm noting because I don't think he's ever used tone to read anyone else and he seems really invested in that read. This is a very weak point by itself but I'm wondering if it's an example of Rels showing inherent bias when reading players.
c) his discredits of Skynx. I'm referring to EOD where he was saying "well Skynx defending ExO isn't a town tell because Skynx would be aware of how that would look to everyone so it's null" which pinged me because he scum-read ExO so why the fuck would he care about how ExO read Skynx if he thinks ExO is mafia? And who thinks that saying "well this thing that you think is townie is actually null" is a good idea BEFORE someone has flipped anyway? I think Rels knew that ExO would flip town and didn't want Skynx getting town cred for defending the ML.
2. His progression with ExO/ darthfoley. While Rels is attacking darthfoley consistently, he didn't have a problem with switching to ExO by making a case. What's the problem there? ExO was already the leading train. Rels was one of the last voters. All that vote did was secure ExO's lynch and was completely pointless. His vote switch is even weirder because Rels said that ExO was 'very likely town' because of his VT claim earlier and spent a fair bit of time explaining that. And he kept that reasoning in mind but I don't get why he felt the need to switch to ExO when he had that VT claim town-read and felt that DF was scummier.
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Here's another post (this time from mahrgell)
On November 06 2016 00:10 mahrgell wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2016 07:12 Calix wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Okay so here's what I think. I don't see anything that really gives me town vibes from Rels, he's in my POE reads and I don't really like him. Kind of want to sleep soon so have some bulletpoints:
1. He feels like he has an agenda with his posts. I get this impression from how strongly he emphasises certain points compared to others. It's like he's trying to achieve X but is also trying to hide that he's trying to achieve X. Examples that pinged me include the following
A) his town-read on me. He really wanted me to know about that. Nobody really needed like, four reasons for why I am town when nobody scum-read me at all at that point and it's not like I need to be defended. Terrible priorities at best, scum pocketing me at worst.
B) his town-read on Foreman. He defends Foreman because of his tone which I'm noting because I don't think he's ever used tone to read anyone else and he seems really invested in that read. This is a very weak point by itself but I'm wondering if it's an example of Rels showing inherent bias when reading players.
c) his discredits of Skynx. I'm referring to EOD where he was saying "well Skynx defending ExO isn't a town tell because Skynx would be aware of how that would look to everyone so it's null" which pinged me because he scum-read ExO so why the fuck would he care about how ExO read Skynx if he thinks ExO is mafia? And who thinks that saying "well this thing that you think is townie is actually null" is a good idea BEFORE someone has flipped anyway? I think Rels knew that ExO would flip town and didn't want Skynx getting town cred for defending the ML.
2. His progression with ExO/ darthfoley. While Rels is attacking darthfoley consistently, he didn't have a problem with switching to ExO by making a case. What's the problem there? ExO was already the leading train. Rels was one of the last voters. All that vote did was secure ExO's lynch and was completely pointless. His vote switch is even weirder because Rels said that ExO was 'very likely town' because of his VT claim earlier and spent a fair bit of time explaining that. And he kept that reasoning in mind but I don't get why he felt the need to switch to ExO when he had that VT claim town-read and felt that DF was scummier. Looked at this. 1) This is something I also noticed. Actually with him defending me against DF. At this time, I think I had established that I'm willing to stand up myself. Throw shade at me, and I will try to bring light into it. DF was the only one going for me, everyone was at Exo already. Why even defend me with a huge post? I won't get lynched by DF alone. I can defend myself. This alone would probably not be weird, but it follows your argument. I just had this feeling, but your examples were not as clear to me before you brought them up giving my intuition more concrete food. In general, rereading his filter he had his case on DF... Except for that, all he did was expanding on other peoples stuff. He defended me, after I needed defense. Same with you or Foreman. He suddenly created large Exo accusations after Exo was already voted by 6 people. Etc. Basically all he ever did was to fight on battle fields where the battle was already over. "Look here, I'm fighting" 1c) I can't make sense of this now. I made clear that Skynx is my scumread right now. If we follow the idea of accusing Rels too... They could make up all kind of shit. If Skynx flips town (or I 180 on my read on him), I would probably come back to this. 2) I can follow your thought process here. I'm seeing how this makes you scumread him. But when I'm doing that thought train myself, I end with a "meh, whatever". He later detailed in great detail why he was suddenly considering Exo to be scum. If we buy that, this swap is legitimate. If we don't buy it, it is imho a repeat of what I described under 1), so not a new point. I'm honestly not that experienced in the meta of "If your target of choice won't happen, what will you do? Confirm an acceptable lynch or stay strong with your target." Trying to read something from it is difficult for me. Conclusion:I see your points, I think you are onto something here. But for me right now Skynx is my priority. I can't exactly bend my head around how that Rels suspicion and my Skynx scumread fit together. Do they fit together? Must one be wrong? (Or both wrong and I just suck at this game...)
Also I was nice and linked to the post where NU made his point: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/515718-newbie-student-mafia-xxiv?page=59#1163
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On November 07 2016 18:55 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2016 18:21 Calix wrote:And again, if you thought that the following post was shitty then why wouldn't that be part of your "Calix could be scum" narrative...? Did you think it was shitty in a town-motivated way or what? (also I'd like your response to the discussion about it that followed + the discussion that followed on from when NU said "Rels' reaction to ExO at EOD was suspicious") On November 05 2016 07:12 Calix wrote: Okay so here's what I think. I don't see anything that really gives me town vibes from Rels, he's in my POE reads and I don't really like him. Kind of want to sleep soon so have some bulletpoints:
1. He feels like he has an agenda with his posts. I get this impression from how strongly he emphasises certain points compared to others. It's like he's trying to achieve X but is also trying to hide that he's trying to achieve X. Examples that pinged me include the following
A) his town-read on me. He really wanted me to know about that. Nobody really needed like, four reasons for why I am town when nobody scum-read me at all at that point and it's not like I need to be defended. Terrible priorities at best, scum pocketing me at worst.
B) his town-read on Foreman. He defends Foreman because of his tone which I'm noting because I don't think he's ever used tone to read anyone else and he seems really invested in that read. This is a very weak point by itself but I'm wondering if it's an example of Rels showing inherent bias when reading players.
c) his discredits of Skynx. I'm referring to EOD where he was saying "well Skynx defending ExO isn't a town tell because Skynx would be aware of how that would look to everyone so it's null" which pinged me because he scum-read ExO so why the fuck would he care about how ExO read Skynx if he thinks ExO is mafia? And who thinks that saying "well this thing that you think is townie is actually null" is a good idea BEFORE someone has flipped anyway? I think Rels knew that ExO would flip town and didn't want Skynx getting town cred for defending the ML.
2. His progression with ExO/ darthfoley. While Rels is attacking darthfoley consistently, he didn't have a problem with switching to ExO by making a case. What's the problem there? ExO was already the leading train. Rels was one of the last voters. All that vote did was secure ExO's lynch and was completely pointless. His vote switch is even weirder because Rels said that ExO was 'very likely town' because of his VT claim earlier and spent a fair bit of time explaining that. And he kept that reasoning in mind but I don't get why he felt the need to switch to ExO when he had that VT claim town-read and felt that DF was scummier. Yep this post is shitty but I don't think it's particulary scummy. If you want t aresponse: A) There is no point here. I'm attentive to any towntells you might have 'cause you're a very good scum players. B) Dunno what to say about that. I thought foreman was town because of his tone. It was not a strong read. C) An example of a shitty narrative. I said what I thought, you are making it fit into a scum motivation. 2) OK this might be scummy. This is false : "he leading train. Rels was one of the last voters. All that vote did was secure ExO's lynch and was completely pointless. His vote switch is even weirder because Rels said that ExO was 'very likely town' because of his VT claim earlier and spent a fair bit of time explaining that." My reasonning for gradually scumreading ExO is super clear so there is nothing weird about it. You're stretching your point here to again making it fit to a scum motivation, but this time you're not telling the truth. You don't understand why I switched to ExO ?
Okay but that doesn't explain why you didn't acknowledge it to begin with...?
A) My point is that you over-emphasised your town read on me for no reason and it looks like pocketing. How is that not a point? And do you think I just made up those 'town tells' now or something?
B) You said "I think his tone is super townie" - this isn't a strong read HOW? I notice that you are now shying away from the strong language that you used at the start of the game between voting for ExO, calling me 'almost lock town' and now backing away from that and claiming that your Foreman read 'wasn't a strong one'. I'm calling bullshit here. Your strongest stances at present are "NU/ TT are obvious town" and "Skynx is scummy" which are obvious and unoriginal stances.
C) No, I demand an explanation. What the fuck were you trying to achieve with those posts about Skynx at EOD?
2. Where is the falsehood? You were one of the last voters. Your vote wasn't required to lynch ExO and you haven't said why you felt that you had to vote for him. You had previously stated a town-read on ExO. There was no need to make a case like that and vote for him, that is my point.
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On November 07 2016 18:59 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2016 18:24 Calix wrote:Here's another post (this time from mahrgell) On November 06 2016 00:10 mahrgell wrote:On November 05 2016 07:12 Calix wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Okay so here's what I think. I don't see anything that really gives me town vibes from Rels, he's in my POE reads and I don't really like him. Kind of want to sleep soon so have some bulletpoints:
1. He feels like he has an agenda with his posts. I get this impression from how strongly he emphasises certain points compared to others. It's like he's trying to achieve X but is also trying to hide that he's trying to achieve X. Examples that pinged me include the following
A) his town-read on me. He really wanted me to know about that. Nobody really needed like, four reasons for why I am town when nobody scum-read me at all at that point and it's not like I need to be defended. Terrible priorities at best, scum pocketing me at worst.
B) his town-read on Foreman. He defends Foreman because of his tone which I'm noting because I don't think he's ever used tone to read anyone else and he seems really invested in that read. This is a very weak point by itself but I'm wondering if it's an example of Rels showing inherent bias when reading players.
c) his discredits of Skynx. I'm referring to EOD where he was saying "well Skynx defending ExO isn't a town tell because Skynx would be aware of how that would look to everyone so it's null" which pinged me because he scum-read ExO so why the fuck would he care about how ExO read Skynx if he thinks ExO is mafia? And who thinks that saying "well this thing that you think is townie is actually null" is a good idea BEFORE someone has flipped anyway? I think Rels knew that ExO would flip town and didn't want Skynx getting town cred for defending the ML.
2. His progression with ExO/ darthfoley. While Rels is attacking darthfoley consistently, he didn't have a problem with switching to ExO by making a case. What's the problem there? ExO was already the leading train. Rels was one of the last voters. All that vote did was secure ExO's lynch and was completely pointless. His vote switch is even weirder because Rels said that ExO was 'very likely town' because of his VT claim earlier and spent a fair bit of time explaining that. And he kept that reasoning in mind but I don't get why he felt the need to switch to ExO when he had that VT claim town-read and felt that DF was scummier. Looked at this. 1) This is something I also noticed. Actually with him defending me against DF. At this time, I think I had established that I'm willing to stand up myself. Throw shade at me, and I will try to bring light into it. DF was the only one going for me, everyone was at Exo already. Why even defend me with a huge post? I won't get lynched by DF alone. I can defend myself. This alone would probably not be weird, but it follows your argument. I just had this feeling, but your examples were not as clear to me before you brought them up giving my intuition more concrete food. In general, rereading his filter he had his case on DF... Except for that, all he did was expanding on other peoples stuff. He defended me, after I needed defense. Same with you or Foreman. He suddenly created large Exo accusations after Exo was already voted by 6 people. Etc. Basically all he ever did was to fight on battle fields where the battle was already over. "Look here, I'm fighting" 1c) I can't make sense of this now. I made clear that Skynx is my scumread right now. If we follow the idea of accusing Rels too... They could make up all kind of shit. If Skynx flips town (or I 180 on my read on him), I would probably come back to this. 2) I can follow your thought process here. I'm seeing how this makes you scumread him. But when I'm doing that thought train myself, I end with a "meh, whatever". He later detailed in great detail why he was suddenly considering Exo to be scum. If we buy that, this swap is legitimate. If we don't buy it, it is imho a repeat of what I described under 1), so not a new point. I'm honestly not that experienced in the meta of "If your target of choice won't happen, what will you do? Confirm an acceptable lynch or stay strong with your target." Trying to read something from it is difficult for me. Conclusion:I see your points, I think you are onto something here. But for me right now Skynx is my priority. I can't exactly bend my head around how that Rels suspicion and my Skynx scumread fit together. Do they fit together? Must one be wrong? (Or both wrong and I just suck at this game...) Also I was nice and linked to the post where NU made his point: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/515718-newbie-student-mafia-xxiv?page=59#1163 1) That doesn't make me scum. I had, and still have actually, this idea that I can't understand how DF couldn't townread marg based on his newbieness; and actually, how he could compare mahrgell play to his scumplay in his first scumgame when it's super different. 1c) Same point as above. 2) He said he didn't think my ExO read was weird.
1. "doesn't make me scum" - Doesn't make you town either, hun.
You are oversimplifying mahrgell's point which is that you do things that don't actually have to be done. Voting for ExO after he was getting lynched, defending mahrgell when nearly everyone town-read him at that point - neither of those things were actually necessary or really help town.
1c) See my previous post for my attitude on this.
2. He also said that he didn't know the proper procedure for EOD voting. See Point 1. I'll concede that this is not a strictly scum-indicative point, however.
On November 07 2016 19:02 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2016 04:09 NeverUnlucky wrote:I've re-read EoD, and noticed a few things. While myself, DF, and Calix said that we were thinking/starting to think that ExO was town, only Rels and TT were still confident in ExO flipping scum. Tictock seemed to be tunneled. He did not bring new points to the table, just said that he was confident in the lynch. Rels, however, was bringing new arguments he did not share before EOD. It looked like he was making an impromptu case on ExO and that he was scavenging for reasons to still scum-read him to ignore the town tone ExO conveyed. Here are his posts: On November 05 2016 01:49 Rels wrote:On November 05 2016 01:19 ExO_ wrote: I just woke up, and I have to run errands. I'll probably be back before EoD but I can't swear to it. What I will say is this:
I came into the thread just saying whatever I felt like. It's how I always play town. I don't try to carefully construct my posts I just say whats on my mind. I did a lot of OMGUS. When I finally sat and calmly looked at the game, I put a little suspicion on DF/Skynx because of short filter, and rels for a similar reason. But I've been attacked for switching views, for not tunneling, for tunneling at the start, and a whole variety of other things.
I don't know exactly how I could defend myself at this point. I've done my best to make you realize that I'm town. But a LOT of people are tunneling on me. I'm not sure what else I'd have to do to prove I'm town.
The idea that I had a scum slip is a complete joke. If I die today:
Lynch TT/Rels. Both are experienced townies yet are moronically pushing this lynch. Especially TT. After that I would look for people who coasted and just hopped on the wagon day 1.
Do not Lynch Calix: Calix is the most most obviously confirmed town here. I want to say NU as well because of filter length, but I'm not sure.
Anywho I'm running some errands now like I said. I should be back before EoD but my motivation to play this game is basically out the window. This is so bad. This martiring won't get you through this lynch. You're saying you can't defend yourself 'cause you're attacked whatever thing you chose to do; well, you could defend yourself by pointing out WHY other people are scummy. In this very post you admit that your OMGUS was bad; that after re evaluating you think one of DF / Skynx / Rels are probably scum; THEN you go on "lynch TT and Rels 'cause they should know better than pushing me" which is the FUCKING DEFINITION OF OMGUS. The last time you've stated reasons for your reads was your NU read yesterday. Since then it has been either OMGUS or filter size. On November 05 2016 01:53 Rels wrote:On November 05 2016 01:21 Skynx wrote: I mean Exo did some bad stuff guys, as i quoted previous page.
However, can someone please give me some solid arguments that makes him objective scum like TT and NU? Other than him being defensive all the time which is not even a reason anymore and makes sense as everyone is scumreading him. - has claimed that his aggression towards Calix at the beginning of the game was fake and just here to provoke reaction, which is something scum always say to explain themselves out of a bad push - has forgotten that he wanted to attack NU and foreman during his sleep and went to attack TT with no reasonning - has forgotten he liked Skynx and listed him as potential scum - has only posted to defend himself yesterday, when Calix intervened to give him some breathing room, he just disappeared instead of doing stuff - martyring, admitting the OMGUS was bad, then OMGUSING some more in the next paragraph (TT and Rels should know better!) Foreman was conveniently afk. I have nothing to respond this. Saying that i scavenged reasons to scumread ExO is again a shitty narrative. I didn't scavenge reasons to scumread ExO, I had reasons to scumread ExO. And I didn't find his tone super townie at EoD, a scum in the same situation could have done the very same things he did to try and survive by appeal to emotion.
Noted. I don't know how to respond to "I have nothing to say here" posts in any case.
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On November 07 2016 19:14 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2016 19:06 Calix wrote:On November 07 2016 18:55 Rels wrote:On November 07 2016 18:21 Calix wrote:And again, if you thought that the following post was shitty then why wouldn't that be part of your "Calix could be scum" narrative...? Did you think it was shitty in a town-motivated way or what? (also I'd like your response to the discussion about it that followed + the discussion that followed on from when NU said "Rels' reaction to ExO at EOD was suspicious") On November 05 2016 07:12 Calix wrote: Okay so here's what I think. I don't see anything that really gives me town vibes from Rels, he's in my POE reads and I don't really like him. Kind of want to sleep soon so have some bulletpoints:
1. He feels like he has an agenda with his posts. I get this impression from how strongly he emphasises certain points compared to others. It's like he's trying to achieve X but is also trying to hide that he's trying to achieve X. Examples that pinged me include the following
A) his town-read on me. He really wanted me to know about that. Nobody really needed like, four reasons for why I am town when nobody scum-read me at all at that point and it's not like I need to be defended. Terrible priorities at best, scum pocketing me at worst.
B) his town-read on Foreman. He defends Foreman because of his tone which I'm noting because I don't think he's ever used tone to read anyone else and he seems really invested in that read. This is a very weak point by itself but I'm wondering if it's an example of Rels showing inherent bias when reading players.
c) his discredits of Skynx. I'm referring to EOD where he was saying "well Skynx defending ExO isn't a town tell because Skynx would be aware of how that would look to everyone so it's null" which pinged me because he scum-read ExO so why the fuck would he care about how ExO read Skynx if he thinks ExO is mafia? And who thinks that saying "well this thing that you think is townie is actually null" is a good idea BEFORE someone has flipped anyway? I think Rels knew that ExO would flip town and didn't want Skynx getting town cred for defending the ML.
2. His progression with ExO/ darthfoley. While Rels is attacking darthfoley consistently, he didn't have a problem with switching to ExO by making a case. What's the problem there? ExO was already the leading train. Rels was one of the last voters. All that vote did was secure ExO's lynch and was completely pointless. His vote switch is even weirder because Rels said that ExO was 'very likely town' because of his VT claim earlier and spent a fair bit of time explaining that. And he kept that reasoning in mind but I don't get why he felt the need to switch to ExO when he had that VT claim town-read and felt that DF was scummier. Yep this post is shitty but I don't think it's particulary scummy. If you want t aresponse: A) There is no point here. I'm attentive to any towntells you might have 'cause you're a very good scum players. B) Dunno what to say about that. I thought foreman was town because of his tone. It was not a strong read. C) An example of a shitty narrative. I said what I thought, you are making it fit into a scum motivation. 2) OK this might be scummy. This is false : "he leading train. Rels was one of the last voters. All that vote did was secure ExO's lynch and was completely pointless. His vote switch is even weirder because Rels said that ExO was 'very likely town' because of his VT claim earlier and spent a fair bit of time explaining that." My reasonning for gradually scumreading ExO is super clear so there is nothing weird about it. You're stretching your point here to again making it fit to a scum motivation, but this time you're not telling the truth. You don't understand why I switched to ExO ? Okay but that doesn't explain why you didn't acknowledge it to begin with...? A) My point is that you over-emphasised your town read on me for no reason and it looks like pocketing. How is that not a point? And do you think I just made up those 'town tells' now or something? B) You said "I think his tone is super townie" - this isn't a strong read HOW? I notice that you are now shying away from the strong language that you used at the start of the game between voting for ExO, calling me 'almost lock town' and now backing away from that and claiming that your Foreman read 'wasn't a strong one'. I'm calling bullshit here. Your strongest stances at present are "NU/ TT are obvious town" and "Skynx is scummy" which are obvious and unoriginal stances. C) No, I demand an explanation. What the fuck were you trying to achieve with those posts about Skynx at EOD? 2. Where is the falsehood? You were one of the last voters. Your vote wasn't required to lynch ExO and you haven't said why you felt that you had to vote for him. You had previously stated a town-read on ExO. There was no need to make a case like that and vote for him, that is my point. A) This is not a point because it is not scummy. And no the towntells are still here hence why I townrean you. Not as strongly as others though. B) This isn't a strong read period. There were D1 reads. Unless you make the point that people read shouldn't change during the game then you have no point. C) I already explained it: "I said what I thought". There is no more to it. 2) So ? I scumread ExO and I wanted him lynched at EOD. If I didn't scumread ExO I would have fought for another lynch. Since I scumread ExO I was OK with the lynch. Saying that I did it only to ... IDK what's your point actually, being in the spotlight for being the last voter, is a shitty narrative. If you think my ExO read was useless, qoute my posts about hima nd prove it.
A) "It's not scummy"
BUT HOW IS IT TOWNIE? What is your fucking problem? It's seriously not hard to just tell me why you felt that several posts emphasising my town alignment when nobody was doubting this was necessary. If you're town, you must have had some town-motivated reason for doing this, yes?
B) I don't get what you are saying here. So it WAS a strong read for you or are you saying that you exaggerated your reads because it was Day 1? My point still stands about your boring, unoriginal viewpoints as of late.
C) "I said what I thought" isn't an explanation. I don't understand why a townie would go around and say "Skynx's defense of ExO says nothing about ExO's alignment/ Skynx isn't confirmed town if ExO is town" and all that. Instead of explaining it to me, you're shutting me down by saying "well it's just my opinion man".
2) You are missing the point, perhaps intentionally since I don't think you're a complete moron. But sure, I will look at your ExO posts later.
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On November 07 2016 19:20 Rels wrote: Calix, since one of your point is taht I hang back and only does thing that are not impactful, did you check any of my scumgames ?
I've read one but it wasn't really a mafia game. It was some game where you had to send off players on 'missions' or something like that. I think you were scum there anyway...with Xatalos and Artanis if I remember correctly?
If you want to link me to a few of your actual scum games then I will read and get back to you on that.
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Also I need to write this essay so I am going to postpone this conversation for now since it's hard to focus on that and on considering your points at the same time.
So yeah, do whatever in the meantime.
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Okay never mind, that took me less time than I thought it would. But I'm still going to drop it for now since you seem annoyed and I'm probably not going to take your responses that seriously until I've had the chance to have a break, clear my mind and reread and blah blah blah.
Although given that I didn't look up your scum games earlier, I can almost relate to you being annoyed because that was retarded of me. And I did that with TT so not sure why that didn't occur to me to do the same with you earlier.
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On November 07 2016 20:01 Rels wrote: Joy
Don't know what you're talking about. I am delightful to argue with.
Any other insights you want to share while you're here?
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On November 07 2016 20:05 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2016 20:03 Calix wrote:On November 07 2016 20:01 Rels wrote: Joy Don't know what you're talking about. I am delightful to argue with. Any other insights you want to share while you're here? That you're willing to reconsider stuff p: Nope, I'm in the middle of something actually, I didn't plan on playing mafia this morning. I didn't reread anything since I went to sleep
Well yeah, it would be dumb to not reconsider on someone like you given that you are not a completely shit player. Just ignore my hypocrisy since you might have been doing that as town with me, lol.
If there's nothing more to be said then I'm going to be looking at your meta now.
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On November 07 2016 20:38 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2016 20:11 Skynx wrote:On November 07 2016 09:35 NeverUnlucky wrote:On November 07 2016 09:32 Rels wrote: I don't have a lot of reasons to scumread Foreman. But I have reasons to townread everyone else to varying degrees (or in DF case, I don't think he can be Skynx partner) and my tone read of Foreman at the beginning of the game doesn't hold up to the amount of nothing he's doing right now. The only thing that is maybe scummy is that he had only weak interactions with Skynx at some points, but there is a lot of Skynx talk in his filter: he voted him, and he had several posts that either talked about him, or talked about people read of Skynx. Can't remember who posted that first but I read something about it when catching up and it's true. Might be a partner tell but it's quite weak. It's not that bad. Also, notice how Skynx decides he is going to case Foreman now that he's been completely AFK? It's almost as if he wants to be part of the wagon to bus if Foreman is scum. Why Calix now? You know what fuck this. I spent 4 hours writing and reading i don't need to see this toxic shit when i wake up. Go ahead and lynch me i don't give a fuck get me out of this game pls its not fun for me. Also go ahead and assign my emo behavior with my scum meta yeye idc really i just want out. GG im town. Actually yeah, I read your filter from dota 2 a few days ago and I remember emo posts like that.
This is going to sound strange but his post reminded me of HM 3 where Skynx/ NU got into an argument. Specifically this post:
On September 10 2016 03:39 Skynx wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2016 03:25 NeverUnlucky wrote:On September 10 2016 03:15 Skynx wrote: 3 ppl spend 3 pages discussing simplest mechanics literally.
You get lynched, you can cop check for that night. Once per game only one of those who get lynched can vigi shot instead of a check. You get nk'd, you can protect someone following night.
Anyway don't want to stir up mechanics discussion again but might aswell put my stance on it. I mean write whatever you want on your message, it can get manipulated so doesn't really matter what you put in it. However dead can decide on their collective vote accordingly to the message, if it is unchanged then their vote will be manipulated that they know for sure. If it is changed then you know your vote is safe. All of this is obvious and has already been said. Looks like a filler/fluff post. I'm so close to ignoring you forever. Shall i just lend you my password and let you play from my account? Anything I write seems to be inadequate for your whatever righteousness-o-meter. I let you know how I'm playing, I read through and comment on what I like and you keep saying "that's been mentioned", "fluff/filler post" whatever. As i said those 3 literally spent 3 pages filling their filter with stuff about mechanics and you call this one post useless.
tl;dr: Skynx telling NU to STFU was way more townie that game than here.
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Also I've only skimmed a few pages of Rels' filter in 72hrs. I'm not super-convinced since he seems to play very similarly as both alignments (from what I've seen so far) but I noticed that a) his points against players are basic as fuck, b) he throws more shade/ doubt than he does here, c) is more malleable.
Well I got point b from that JAT game but that's just from opening posts because no way am I reading 29 fucking pages.
Not really sure what Rels' point is unless he's saying "I am capable of making cases on lynchbait as scum and I'm not doing that here"
Which would make sense...given that's a reason that he town-reads me.
lmao
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On November 07 2016 21:26 NeverUnlucky wrote: Skynx / Foreman / DF
I think the one who's not mafia in there just misread his rolecard.
lmao
I am not worried. The Investigative can just check among those three if they haven't done so already.
If we lynch scum today (likely given we have Skynx here) then we can probably win this by not being complete morons with role-claims. Just get the scummy players to claim wherever they are TPR or VT first or something and go from there.
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On November 07 2016 21:44 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2016 21:10 Calix wrote: Also I've only skimmed a few pages of Rels' filter in 72hrs. I'm not super-convinced since he seems to play very similarly as both alignments (from what I've seen so far) but I noticed that a) his points against players are basic as fuck, b) he throws more shade/ doubt than he does here, c) is more malleable.
Well I got point b from that JAT game but that's just from opening posts because no way am I reading 29 fucking pages.
Not really sure what Rels' point is unless he's saying "I am capable of making cases on lynchbait as scum and I'm not doing that here"
Which would make sense...given that's a reason that he town-reads me.
lmao I don't understand the last sentence p: My point is that when I play scum I'm the opposite of here: my reads look good 'cause I always position myself to be a scum survivor, but my arguments don't make people scum. Here you're attacking me on my ExO read because it was "badly timed" let's say, which is something I don't do as scum. I'll tell you what I would have done; exactly what I did in the JAT game; continue attacking my target (Tumblewood in JAT, DF here) until he's finally lynched 'cause when you scream that someone is scummy for enough days, they always end up being lynched at some point.
What I was trying to say there is that my read on your play is kind of like your read on my play. Basically we are kind-of-but-not-really suspecting each other because "they r like rly gud at scum but they're not playing to their scum meta...but still might be scum cos they're rly gud"
Although yeah, I was informed that you can be relentless as scum. That's something I picked up from what other people said about you more than anything else though.
Even with that said, I am not sure if you, as scum, would have picked me of all people as your fall-back target if Foreman, etc is town since a shit-fight between the two of us would likely result in you losing <3
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On November 08 2016 01:44 Tictock wrote: Yea this is kinda bleh.
I feel like I could go either way with Skynx's emo posts, but his actual content doesn't inspire much confidence. The case on NU looks more like he just grabbed posts out of NU's filter and threw in comments than a real read. The lack of any other reads is worrysome, no real explanation on why he thinks I'm town now (I think that's the case) or why he doesn't like Darth. There is also irony there since half his case on NU is that NU is dropping reads without giving reasons.
The only thing that is giving me pause atm, and it's more WIFOM thinking so take it with some salt, is that if the scumteam is Skynx/Foreman then why the hell is this game still going?
Huh?
Skynx is still active and none of the mafia have died yet. Why would the game have stopped?
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But yes, I agree that if the scum team is Skynx/ Foreman and one of them dies today then game should end in an hour because it's inevitable that town would win in that scenario.
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I don't understand how you can possibly have doubts about Skynx after his re-entrance. There is no overarching town motivation behind his posts and his meta doesn't match up to his town meta. Also don't see how being passive-aggressive is a town tell.
You literally do not need to see if every single post comes from town/ mafia. You only need one post where someone makes a post that makes no sense for town to make and it's game over. Case closed. Alignment solved.
I don't actually give a shit which one dies today. I just can't believe that you think Skynx has a chance at being town.
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On November 08 2016 02:18 NeverUnlucky wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2016 02:14 Calix wrote: I don't understand how you can possibly have doubts about Skynx after his re-entrance. There is no overarching town motivation behind his posts and his meta doesn't match up to his town meta. Also don't see how being passive-aggressive is a town tell.
You literally do not need to see if every single post comes from town/ mafia. You only need one post where someone makes a post that makes no sense for town to make and it's game over. Case closed. Alignment solved.
I don't actually give a shit which one dies today. I just can't believe that you think Skynx has a chance at being town. Didn't you say something about his entry matching his town meta before? There's also one post I've noted in DF's filter that pretty much townclears him if I'm good. So I really think that the scum team is Skynx / Foreman atm. If it is, it means that you'll have to endure me bragging that I had both as scum-reads day 1 for the next couple weeks. The only reason I'm keeping my vote on Foreman is because my vote shows up first in the VC, and it'll look good when he flips red.
If you mean my read with him talking shit about everyone then yes. Otherwise not sure what you'd refer to. That also isn't something that makes him 100% town, no questions, otherwise I would have said that.
Good thing I already made the decision to ignore you then.
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lol TT. You are the reason that this game isn't going to end prematurely, let me just say that now
I'm almost hoping that one of these two wankers is town. Then the game will actually become interesting again and there'll be more discussion.
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He's not even voting Foreman to save himself, wtf.
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On November 08 2016 02:38 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2016 02:14 Calix wrote: I don't understand how you can possibly have doubts about Skynx after his re-entrance. There is no overarching town motivation behind his posts and his meta doesn't match up to his town meta. Also don't see how being passive-aggressive is a town tell.
You literally do not need to see if every single post comes from town/ mafia. You only need one post where someone makes a post that makes no sense for town to make and it's game over. Case closed. Alignment solved.
I don't actually give a shit which one dies today. I just can't believe that you think Skynx has a chance at being town. I'm not sure why I'm suddenly getting cold feet, I still feel like I have decent reasons to TR everyone but them so I'm probably just being paranoid. Stampeding through their filters right before lynch is prob not helping me much there either.
Because you are TT and randomly flip-flopping on your reads is how you roll.
From what I've seen of your play in a grand total of three games, that is.
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On November 08 2016 02:41 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2016 02:33 Calix wrote:lol TT. You are the reason that this game isn't going to end prematurely, let me just say that now I'm almost hoping that one of these two wankers is town. Then the game will actually become interesting again and there'll be more discussion. If there is a chance than one of them is town in your mind, shouldn't we lynch Foreman since Skynx is at least posting content? albeit not much
You missed the joke. I think both of them are scum.
Skynx is never town with those posts.
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On November 08 2016 02:42 Calix wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2016 02:41 Tictock wrote:On November 08 2016 02:33 Calix wrote:lol TT. You are the reason that this game isn't going to end prematurely, let me just say that now I'm almost hoping that one of these two wankers is town. Then the game will actually become interesting again and there'll be more discussion. If there is a chance than one of them is town in your mind, shouldn't we lynch Foreman since Skynx is at least posting content? albeit not much You missed the joke. I think both of them are scum. Skynx is never town with those posts.
Well it wasn't really a joke, but I wasn't being 100% serious either. So whatever you call that.
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This can win the award for "most boring EOD 2016"
You know it's bad when I am basically shit-posting and nothing else.
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On November 08 2016 02:51 NeverUnlucky wrote: The sad part is that Skynx probably asked the hosts to concede but because Foreman is AWOL, the hosts could not end the game.
Probably right.
Well I had fun for most of the game at least, so it doesn't bother me.
One day the Calix/ Rels shit-fight will become a thing
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On November 08 2016 02:54 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2016 02:53 Calix wrote:On November 08 2016 02:51 NeverUnlucky wrote: The sad part is that Skynx probably asked the hosts to concede but because Foreman is AWOL, the hosts could not end the game. Probably right. Well I had fun for most of the game at least, so it doesn't bother me. One day the Calix/ Rels shit-fight will become a thing And the next you'll be dead
Correct. I'll be dead the night after you get lynched, my friend.
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On November 08 2016 02:58 Tictock wrote:Uhh, no?
Bruh, that was clearly his version of a baby seal.
I approve.
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Sweet.
Neat hosting, cakepie. Really liked it.
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Also lol wtf, NU was a VT?
I thought he was TPR because of how weird his play was.
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I was being considered for a night kill N1 and didn't die due to fear of medics.
My ego is satisfied with this.
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On November 08 2016 03:10 NeverUnlucky wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2016 03:08 Calix wrote: Also lol wtf, NU was a VT?
I thought he was TPR because of how weird his play was. How was it different from the other games? xD
Because you were playing off-the-charts scummy to the point where I had to stop pointing it out because you were still dropping town tells.
And it was driving me nuts because I didn't understand this discrepancy.
And then I realised you don't have much experience playing as TPR so I thought it was because of that.
So I stopped pushing/ insulting you so much.
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On November 08 2016 03:12 NeverUnlucky wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2016 03:12 mahrgell wrote:On November 08 2016 03:11 Half the Sky wrote:On November 08 2016 03:09 mahrgell wrote: Hi guys. I took a bullet for the team, but looks like it paid off ^.^ They were deciding between Calix and mahrgell. It was obvious to them, and they were right, that Calix was the JK save. You were effectively the medic dodge. I can live with that You played great, mang. Would be a pleasure to see you play some other games around here.
I third this. I really like your style once we established that it wasn't a scum tell ;p
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On November 08 2016 03:18 mahrgell wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2016 03:14 Calix wrote:On November 08 2016 03:12 NeverUnlucky wrote:On November 08 2016 03:12 mahrgell wrote:On November 08 2016 03:11 Half the Sky wrote:On November 08 2016 03:09 mahrgell wrote: Hi guys. I took a bullet for the team, but looks like it paid off ^.^ They were deciding between Calix and mahrgell. It was obvious to them, and they were right, that Calix was the JK save. You were effectively the medic dodge. I can live with that You played great, mang. Would be a pleasure to see you play some other games around here. I third this. I really like your style once we established that it wasn't a scum tell ;p At some point I cursed myself: - it takes a shitload of time, especially as I made a lot of promises of what I would do, and then following up on it... and this took soooooooooo much time and I was like "but shit, if I drop off now, they lynch me again" - it will most likely ruin my next games. I don't think I can hold this up, but no matter if I roll ton or scum... I will always be compared to it and lynched ^^
Pro tip: Tell people who try to lynch you based on meta and nothing else to go fuck themselves.
I think in your case, it's important to prioritise who should be looked into, explain what you found by doing that and then give a sentence or two on the players who you haven't had the chance to look into
I think you're already doing that for the most part. It's just about time management. Don't feel pressured to contribute paragraphs on EVERYONE, just on what you think the most important parts are.
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On November 08 2016 03:20 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2016 03:09 Half the Sky wrote: Of course my blue reads were off. I had Calix and NU as likely blues.
Damn me. I was a little paranoid when Foreman posted something about me not thinking about Exo possibly claiming VT as a blue. Other than that though I feel like I'm hard to pickout as a blue kus I really don't put that much stock in it. At least I'm not an easy blueread when hosts don't PM half the game my checks ^.^
Yeah, I've seen you as blue in two games and the only reason I suspected you in the last game was because of that Jealous comment.
Other than that, you are weirdly good at playing the same way, lol.
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On November 08 2016 03:22 Half the Sky wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2016 03:21 Calix wrote:On November 08 2016 03:18 mahrgell wrote:On November 08 2016 03:14 Calix wrote:On November 08 2016 03:12 NeverUnlucky wrote:On November 08 2016 03:12 mahrgell wrote:On November 08 2016 03:11 Half the Sky wrote:On November 08 2016 03:09 mahrgell wrote: Hi guys. I took a bullet for the team, but looks like it paid off ^.^ They were deciding between Calix and mahrgell. It was obvious to them, and they were right, that Calix was the JK save. You were effectively the medic dodge. I can live with that You played great, mang. Would be a pleasure to see you play some other games around here. I third this. I really like your style once we established that it wasn't a scum tell ;p At some point I cursed myself: - it takes a shitload of time, especially as I made a lot of promises of what I would do, and then following up on it... and this took soooooooooo much time and I was like "but shit, if I drop off now, they lynch me again" - it will most likely ruin my next games. I don't think I can hold this up, but no matter if I roll ton or scum... I will always be compared to it and lynched ^^ Pro tip: Tell people who try to lynch you based on meta and nothing else to go fuck themselves. I think in your case, it's important to prioritise who should be looked into, explain what you found by doing that and then give a sentence or two on the players who you haven't had the chance to look into I think you're already doing that for the most part. It's just about time management. Don't feel pressured to contribute paragraphs on EVERYONE, just on what you think the most important parts are. Holy hell, you took the words from my mouth. Exactly what I've advised low-volume posting newbies. Calix, are you reading my mind?
Perhaps
What made you think NU/ myself were blues? I am curious as to your thoughts here/ what's in your coaching QT or whatnot
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On November 08 2016 03:28 Half the Sky wrote: There were some very specific posts by both of you that made me go WTF.
The one where you dueled with Rels and you were like "if it's between me and you, you will lose [due to a blueclaim]" or something like that.
Oh no, I said that because I'm difficult to lynch
I can relate to thinking that NU was TPR though. Would not have guessed that the only one around was TT, haha.
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On November 08 2016 03:36 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2016 03:31 cakepie wrote:~ Okuu's Yellowcake Award ~Caution! Caution! Caution!Art credit: pixiv #34968647 The scumteam was independently guessed correctly by: Shapelog via PM, 2 hours 30 minutes into the game
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Disformation in Obs QT, 4 hours 15 minutes into the game Congrats! I want to shamlessly admit that I only made one submission to this and it was Exo/Calix... Really wanted that one post to be a mega-scumslip...
Oh good, I can add another thing to "shit Tunneltock says"
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Side note: wifomation was living it up in the obs QT. I'm having a blast reading his woes and tribulations about how everyone is Too Scummy For Him xD
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Can't wait to obs with him next game. It's going to be so good.
Also what did people think of my play this game? I was trying to try out something different but I'm not sure how well I pulled it off.
I didn't tunnel anyone for the entirety of Day 1 though, so I think that's a good start even if it's a pitiful step in the right direction
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On November 08 2016 04:02 mahrgell wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2016 03:55 Calix wrote:Can't wait to obs with him next game. It's going to be so good. Also what did people think of my play this game? I was trying to try out something different but I'm not sure how well I pulled it off. I didn't tunnel anyone for the entirety of Day 1 though, so I think that's a good start even if it's a pitiful step in the right direction Imho you townlocked very quick. But somehow I missed conclusions in your reads. I mean, I'm guilty of that too... But I noticed it with you quite a lot. Oh, and please don't announce "I will vote him for now, this will put pressure on him". No, it won't. You don't have to shout "LOCKSCUM!!!!" to apply pressure (this is the rather childish other extreme, even though very common too^^) but at least make it appear that this is your topscum read and you will lynch if nothing great comes.
Oh yeah, bad habit of mine. I come to a conclusion and think it's obvious with what I write and then forget to explain myself properly. I'll keep that in mind. Thanks
On November 08 2016 04:13 disformation wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2016 03:55 Calix wrote:Can't wait to obs with him next game. It's going to be so good. Also what did people think of my play this game? I was trying to try out something different but I'm not sure how well I pulled it off. I didn't tunnel anyone for the entirety of Day 1 though, so I think that's a good start even if it's a pitiful step in the right direction I think there were one or two small things that got me to put on my tinfoil hat, but thats already in the obs.
Understatement of the year, me thinks. Not sure you have ever town-read me xD
I feel like you would probably get on my nerves in an actual game because I don't take well to being scum-read or seen as anything but town ever and you don't do that. I'm sure this bad habit of mine will die down eventually but at the moment, nah
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On November 08 2016 04:21 disformation wrote: Dont worry though, im just super paranoid and usually back down if I get argued at too much
You are probably one of those types who I would kill as mafia because I wouldn't be able to predict what you'd do next ;p
I feel like I am hypersensitive to being scum-read though. Not sure how to work on that, however. It's not even AI for me. I don't like being scum-read as town because I should be establishing my innocence and being a potential suspect to someone means I am not doing that well enough.
If I'm scum then it's a point of pride.
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On November 08 2016 05:30 disformation wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2016 04:44 NocturneMage wrote:On November 08 2016 04:21 disformation wrote: Dont worry though, im just super paranoid and usually back down if I get argued at too much can attest to this. making meta reads left right centre in star wars on mafia and you thought I was scum for it for making meta reads I generally didn't like to make xD wp town def want to see calix roll scum though again and endgame. you can do it. well gotta make sure you are town before i sheep you :p
Hey, it makes Day 1 simple. You either sheep the NocturneMage or you kill the MafiaMage.
def want to see calix roll scum though again and endgame. you can do it.
Oh I will. I like to think that last game was a stepping stone
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