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300 years later...
Eager to avenge their ancestor's death, in a small town 300 years ago... at the hands of the insane mayor FakeSteve... a small band of marine's ventured forth...
But they were butchered and eaten by a bunch of Jaedong's lings, feeding the swarm.
Thus, the descendants of Alethios were unable to participate in that which they were traveling towards... The Team Liquid Mafia 2 [Signups]. Bummer.
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Unconfirmable rollcalling this early in the game is simply stupid. Stupid. Even if he's telling the truth, he's exposed himself to the mafia.
Either he's lying or he's being idiotic for personal gain. Neither of which are qualities we want in a mayor.
EDIT: Ace above me pretty much sums it up.
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On March 19 2008 15:32 HotZhot wrote: I think people running for mayor should state who are they lynching as their first act. It is very important to discuss it because we don't want another FS doing whatever he wants. (although I have to admit it was a lot of lol) I resent that.
It's a good idea however, if the candidate has somebody in mind already.
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On March 19 2008 15:42 Ace wrote: I do have a good idea of how I'm going to go about using that first lynch, I just haven't decided on a person yet because it's pretty much impossible to do it right now. Could you enlighten us on this? Your method of selection.
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On March 19 2008 16:46 HotZhot wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2008 16:32 CDRdude wrote:On March 19 2008 15:56 HotZhot wrote:On March 19 2008 15:36 Alethios wrote:On March 19 2008 15:32 HotZhot wrote: I think people running for mayor should state who are they lynching as their first act. It is very important to discuss it because we don't want another FS doing whatever he wants. (although I have to admit it was a lot of lol) I resent that. Why? I voted for FS for the pure roflness of it, the game ended so much more entertaining because of it. He's probably against FS (orr maybe joking) because FS' first act as mayor was to insta-lynch Alethios. I think he's joking, but he has reason to be annoyed. Right... didn't remember that LOL No hard feelings.
On March 19 2008 19:06 CDRdude wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2008 18:10 ahrara_ wrote:On March 19 2008 18:08 Ghar wrote: No love for Ghar? =[ Well, you had my vote initially. Unfortunately, you're the Ralph Nader of this election. If you endorsed randombum, we can keep Empyrean out of office, which I think is important. If you know so much about American politics, why does your profile list you as from Afghanistan? I'm not really sure about Ralph Nader's international prestige, but I really doubt it extends to Afghanistan. And it might not extend to Australia either, which is what Ghar's profile lists.
With the USA being the immensely powerful nation that it is, American's aren't the only people to follow it's politics. Simply because you don't follow Australian, Afghan or New Zealand politics doesn't mean we don't.
I would advise against having Empyrean in public service. The reasons have been stated by others. His rolecalling was either a tactical blunder or a tactic to illicitly gain out trust. That being said, since i'm currently voting for Ace, thus am partly to blame for Empyrean's position of second place. Très suspicious ne?
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1 . Just a heads up... Comments like: "I wish I was mafia again", "If only I was mafia" "I hate being a towny" et.c. Hopefully you aren't convincing anybody. Such statements are basically void, and should be ignored by all.
2. Tough luck on the lynch result, but chances were that we weren't going to get anybody. While i'm sure most realise this, the fact that Inc was a blue... tells us nothing at all about Ace, nobody knew about any blue player other than themselves.
3. I would encourage people to use their votes liberally, and to change them as often as they see fit. Vote counts provoke discussion, and generally a defense from the bloke on death row. This defense can then be analysed for inconsistencies and so forth. Don't withhold your votes, don't 'save them' for later in the day, like discussion, voting is good for the town.
4. Do we have any news yet on the bodyguard plan? May well have missed a post about it. With even more people than last time... the time difference means when I come home, there is another 30 pages new from last night, so I'll probably miss the odd post here and there. If Ace could simply let us know when stage 1 has been completed, that would be dandy.
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It occurred to me that the Mad Hatter role would be more of a liability than an asset. Never mind.
Love all the Tentin Qurantino references, not sure how far they'll get us early on in this game. My prediction is that later in the game however, they'll come in handy.
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Just to remind everybody to do two things:
1. Send in your role to Ace (who by now is almost certainly innocent).
2. Vote vote! The day is still young and there is plenty of time to accuse and acquit multiple people :D
3. Talk, talk. Seriously, being silent is really really bad for the town, and is thus, bad for you. Just look at last games cult of death list if you need more evidence. So many of them were inactive and never noticed by the masses. It was one of the main reasons the town lost the last game. Get talking, but keep it on topic and thoughtful. "lol inc died" is not helping anything.
Theorycraft on Diablo's minions and the events thus far is on the horizon.
EDIT: Added link to the voting page. Click it.
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On March 22 2008 20:34 Energies wrote: The fact that most of your suspects are completely different from mine makes me think that you are Mafia drawing attention away from your brethren, I vote we lynch the kiwi. I have 100% proof that he is Mafia, which I will reveal once he is lynched.
What do you mean "the kiwi? Bastard!
All seriousness aside, Ace's plan, thus far unrevealed, is curious. We can be fairly certain he is town, yes... but withdrawing our votes could have unforeseen consequences.
Daytime has a habit of running out on us (read: me) in inopportune times. If the town (for townies are most likely to heed Ace's advice) withdraws it's votes, and the day runs out before Ace's plan comes to fruition... It could leave us in the situation where the Assassin's Guild could easily kill a townie (wasting our lynch, and killing one of us), without any serious effort on their part. That is to say, we won't be given a list of which 9 out of 11 people (or whatever it was... I was pushing up daisies at the time) are mafia.
I've complied with Ace's request, and hope that the sun's course across the sky is slowed by Māui's jaw bone. Kia Kaha.
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One thing that hasn't been brought up yet... Plexa searched wikipedia for "Ghar" and brought back a bunch of answers.... However, my take on the name is this:
As an old school WoW player (don't socially ostracize me, I gave up years ago).... "Ghar" to me is the one of Ragnaros' lieutenants. Ragnaros was the BigBad in the early versions of WoW, before patches brought in Newer and Harder raid instances.
Ghar was a big black and red rock elemental. He had 8 minions, which were smaller versions of himself. As you rushed in, and he agro'd, he would cast a spell. The spell was to remove all buffs from everybody in the raid.
Ghar: -Baddie -Links to colours -Henchman of Ragnaros/Godfather -Ability could be indicative of Role Blocker status.
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Voted Mandalor, as per request.
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Actually, "Ghar" as i took it is spelt "Garr", so my evidence is a long shot. My apologies.
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While this is still pre-flop, so to speak, we were given Mandalor on a platter. Of course his death will be a bit boring...
58 votes to kill Mandalor, next closest Ghar on 7.
Tomorrow we don't have as much to go on, and while Ghar will probably snuff it between now and dusk tomorrow... beyond that it's very unclear what will happen.
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Suppose my post wasn't pre-flop after all....
Wooooooo! Go us / Ace.
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On March 24 2008 17:52 AcrossFiveJulys wrote: I'm beginning to think that next game we might think about PM's not being allowed except for mafia, because as a vanilla townie im not even involved in this game at all anymore and have no way of finding out what's going on.
It makes sense to go for the winning strategy, so let's just tweak the rules so that this kind of situation can't happen (half the people in this game are plain townies for gods sake...) I'm actually feeling something similar to this at the moment. I'm withholding judgment for a day or two though, because I think it will pick up big time.
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I've said it before, i'll say it again... the mad hatter role seems like such a liability.
It's the whole "If I die, lynch x" thing, roled up into one action. Problem is, by killing the person when they are saying that (assuming x isn't mafia), they effectively kill two people instead of one.
Flawed role.
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Presumably, this is the post a whole lot of you bored folks have been waiting for.
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By now, Ace has enough information on us, and enough of us trust him to lead the opposing side to an easy victory. Assuming he's mafioso that is, it's unlikely but still plausible.
Imagine this scenario, if you will.
1) Ace is a member of the Death Company. 2) Ace is roleblocked by fellow cult member. 3) His word leads Town to an early lead. 4) No detectives speak out about him.... causing the town to trust Ace absolutely. 5) Ace sets up two blue townies, and we all follow him like lemmings. 6) The dead's allegiances are revealed, and all Ace has to do is say "huh"
Now i'll explain why this is possible. 1) Obvious, he was given the role. 2) A clever ruse, to help Ace gain our trust. Here is what chuiu has to say about Saboteurs: "he may disable one players [sic] abilities" It doesn't say that this person may not be a fellow Satan Worshiper. 3) Again, a clever ruse. 4) Look again at the detective's ability. The detective has 3 powers, one of which would be useless in determining Ace's colour. The other two are:
-You have the ability to ask me whether or not a specific clue points to a specific person and get a yes/no answer. -You have the ability to, twice a game, ask me what role a specific person has.
If a detective used the first ability, chances are he's going to get back a "no". If he uses the second, chances are that he's going to get "no special role" returned. In both cases, the detective will not speak up. Leading us, and the detectives, to believe Ace walks in the light.
5) Judging from the reaction to wurm's denouncement, Ace has deduced correctly that he is able to kill off two important townies tomorrow afternoon, simply by having the majority follow him like sheep.
6) If two townies are hung, or two blues... Ace is still in the clear. All he needs to do is sight wurm's behavior and the action will be justified. From this point on, all that he needs to do is implore people to vote for X, and X will be hung. By the time we figure out what is going on, it will be too late.
So, there you have it... Ace COULD be a Viper, playing the role of his life. It's unlikely, but I implore everybody to consider the fundamental theorem of this game: Only trust yourself, the dead, and confirmed teammates (Diablo's fellow minions, Bodyguards if Mayor).
Keep in mind that Ace is a very intelligent person. Isn't it possible that Ace thought through this logic before me and discovered a sure fire way for the Deadly Viper Assassination Squad to win the game. Wouldn't it be damned fun to play the way Ace is now?
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That being said, I by and large trust Ace and I have a large dose of respect for many of his ideas... but what has prompted me to speak up is this plan of his for tomorrow's vote.
IT'S RETARDED.
You're splitting up two different lists, in the hope that the demon's will present themselves in a more obvious light. This in itself has nothing wrong with it, but (assuming your town) haven't considered the ramifications.
1) More than likely, more than a few people will not vote... and claim they were away. Leading to the whole system being a farce.
But it gets worse...
2) Chances are, you aren't going to catch anybody. You'll have a list of people in which some are Undead... but you could do just as well by taking a random sample. Good work.
3) You're wasting an entire day/night cycle of detective power.
4) You're setting up a situation where YOU decide who the two suspects are to be. This is a problem not only because there is still a chance you might be mafia... but you exclude the town from making up their own minds. Bad for entertainment value, and also the key precepts upon which the town should always vote. Making up your own mind about who to vote for and not jumping upon bandwagons.
5) Deserter's such as myself are required to be punished, otherwise the whole idea falls down. But what about if they have actual reasons for not doing as you wish? What if they see your idea as being flawed, or do not trust you?
I shall not vote as you prescribe Ace. It's stupid and almost counterproductive assuming you are town, and truly terrible if you are satanic. I encourage you all to start thinking for yourselves once more.
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A chink in your armor there Ace? Thats the best you can come up with? I make no sense?
I don't mean to suggest that you are part of the multi-international corporation, simply that you could be.
However, I DO mean to suggest that your plan for tomorrow's voting is stupid, because it is. If there were higher numbers of mafia in each list... I might condone it. As it stands however, if you took a random sample... your data would probably lie within 1 std deviation of what you've got. Not enough to act upon. Give up, try another tack.
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Please tell me you aren't talking about Ace... If so, please go and read what I actually had to say.
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On March 26 2008 16:05 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2008 15:53 Alethios wrote: A chink in your armor there Ace? Thats the best you can come up with? I make no sense?
I don't mean to suggest that you are part of the multi-international corporation, simply that you could be.
However, I DO mean to suggest that your plan for tomorrow's voting is stupid, because it is. If there were higher numbers of mafia in each list... I might condone it. As it stands however, if you took a random sample... your data would probably lie within 1 std deviation of what you've got. Not enough to act upon. Give up, try another tack. explain your math, because right now it's not adding up.
Put simply... 1/7 Guilty in the first lot (this is your better sample) is still only 14.3% mafia. Compare this to the total murderers in the game, over the total players. 22/130 = 16.9% mafia
Then you have your 10/58 Guilty in the second lot.... Which is slightly more at 10/58 = 17.2% but still not far from the mean. Furthermore, much more effort is required to separate out these mafia than in the first lot.
Seriously... I don't buy your "math isn't adding up" for a second. I realise that (assuming you ARE town) you have to maintain the trust of the town, but persisting with this stupid scheme isn't helping in the slightest.
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On March 26 2008 16:22 Alventenie wrote: I thought the saboteur and suicide bomber were included in the 20 mafia o.o, because there are 110 townies out of 130, so thats 20 left for mafia slots. therefore its 20/130, not 22/130 Ah good point. Rather misleading first post. I conceed this however.
The total percentage of Mafia is infact 15.4%
Doesn't change a thing however. Your lists have about the error you'd expect to find in a random sample.
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On March 26 2008 16:24 Showtime! wrote: You are blinder and dumber than I thought.
bye bye kiwi. Oh please.... don't even try to pull that one on me.
Please don't forget your the one who's name was being bandied about in connection the clues not long ago...
I had hoped you were talking about me, interesting you picked up that I am female...
Instead of saying "so says the mafioso" why don't you try to actually pick apart my argument. Might be a bit more productive.
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On March 26 2008 16:31 Alventenie wrote: I believe what Ace is going on is that even though the % is close to the mean in that group of 58, its a better % of finding mafia and innocents (say one group there is no mafia, other has all 10), than say, choosing the group that didn't vote/abstained from voting. Therefore, he is picking the most reasonable approach of the use of this detective power. While i think he should just use one detective role on the ghar group, its really up to him, and if he finds mafia that way, then good for him. Otherwise until you provide a better plan (and i mean complete plan of action tomorrow) to use those powers and make them more useful than what Ace is doing, I suggest you not try and post stuff saying that his way is retarded. Going on prior evidence, the Mafia are more likely, statistically to be the ones lurking. So i'm not sure what evidence you have to say it's better than choosing the group that didn't vote/abstain...
Furthermore, I'm not required to provide an alternate plan in order to point out that the current one is stupid, but I shall anyway.
1) Vote how you see fit, acting upon Ace's evidence against somebody if you wish. This has worked well in the past, and will again. 2) Detectives use their powers to find out useful information. One such use would be to check the new (fresh) lists for mafia and cross-referencing the two lists. This will almost certainly result in far better results. 3) Don't let yourself become removed from the loop. Yes, I think we should trust Ace for now... but don't allow yourself to become a bystander, as it puts too much trust in Ace.
Satisfied? Bet you thought I wouldn't come up with one.
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On March 26 2008 16:38 Alventenie wrote: Ok, I'll post about your argument, I didn't use a calculator, but i have rough numbers for you.
Saying using the powers on 2x groups of 29 on a 10/58 group of mafia is his worst choice (it isnt, the 1/7 is). That means the remaining people are thrown into a group of (103-65 = 38), that means 9/38 (~23.4%) of guessing. The only problem with having those 38 vote, is that
A) They all voted for different people/abstained B) They didn't vote at all, meaning they are away, not wanting to post
So what Ace is doing is he is having the people he know for sure posted and voted, to use them, rather than trying an uncertainty of getting people that may be away/inactive to vote. That is why his way is the most reasonable way of doing the votes. If i had anything to guess at, he probably will use a double lynch tomorrow because of the 2 groups, because otherwise you will have 2 even groups (but that could change with the day post) 1) Lets say we do the split. (putting aside all the concerns about where that might leave us) Lets look at the numbers. Chances are, the Death Cult members will be split reasonably evenly amongst the groups, resulting in similar percentages to what we have now. Nothing can be done with this information, but to repeat the process. Resulting in multiple Kangaroo courts each time hoping that we get lucky and a Mafia member is singled out.
2) He sets up the suspects, uses the double lynch and forces us to vote the way he wants us to. Can you not see how much power this will give him?
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Whats more, why bother posting rough numbers? You ARE on a computer you know. You COULD calculate these things properly easily.
By saying that the 1/7 group is the worse list really shows how little thought you've put into this.
Just because there is a slightly higher percentage of Assassins in the larger list, doesn't mean it's somehow easier to get at them. They are hidden amongst the masses, requiring a huge amount of effort to get at. At least with the 1/7 group, a single repeater will put the Assassin in a new list with, at worst, a 25% Assassin percentage.
Can't you see i'm talking sense Ace? Please drop this plan. Cross referencing lists will be far more effective at singling out Undead.
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On March 26 2008 16:49 Alventenie wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2008 16:44 Alethios wrote:On March 26 2008 16:38 Alventenie wrote: Ok, I'll post about your argument, I didn't use a calculator, but i have rough numbers for you.
Saying using the powers on 2x groups of 29 on a 10/58 group of mafia is his worst choice (it isnt, the 1/7 is). That means the remaining people are thrown into a group of (103-65 = 38), that means 9/38 (~23.4%) of guessing. The only problem with having those 38 vote, is that
A) They all voted for different people/abstained B) They didn't vote at all, meaning they are away, not wanting to post
So what Ace is doing is he is having the people he know for sure posted and voted, to use them, rather than trying an uncertainty of getting people that may be away/inactive to vote. That is why his way is the most reasonable way of doing the votes. If i had anything to guess at, he probably will use a double lynch tomorrow because of the 2 groups, because otherwise you will have 2 even groups (but that could change with the day post) 1) Lets say we do the split. (putting aside all the concerns about where that might leave us) Lets look at the numbers. Chances are, the Death Cult members will be split reasonably evenly amongst the groups, resulting in similar percentages to what we have now. Nothing can be done with this information, but to repeat the process. Resulting in multiple Kangaroo courts each time hoping that we get lucky and a Mafia member is singled out. 2) He sets up the suspects, uses the double lynch and forces us to vote the way he wants us to. Can you not see how much power this will give him? It doesn't matter if they split evenly, he is forcing the mafia to vote, AND he is making them vote the way he wants them to. Otherwise they could vote for whoever they wish, whether abstain, or voting for someone with little votes to make it look like they are trying to be helpful. The fact that he has that power means he is forcing the mafia to play on his own terms. That puts the mafia at a disadvantage because that means they will be voting for their fellow teammates (as shown with Mandolar). He sets up the suspects, yes, he does, it gives him a lot of power, but I see no reason as to not trust him as of yet. No detectives have spoken up yet, I've talked to him in PMs a couple times, and he seems no threat to me at all as a townie. Therefore, until he pulls some stunt that warrants enough suspicion, I have no problem with him using such power to have the town move forward in lynching mafia. Also, even if I did have a problem with it, there would be nothing I could do since the vast majority of the town trusts Ace, and will follow him. Well done for once again, missing my point entirely. Also good job on skimming over the bits of my original post you didn't care to argue with.
Yes criminals had to vote against Mandolar. He was dead anyway, and the mafia would not have swayed the vote in any case.
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I realise Ace is highly trustworthy. I realise most of the town will follow him whatever he decides to do. What does that matter though?
Highly trustworthy does not mean he is incapable of making mistakes. Highly trustworthy does not mean is can't be a demon in disguise. Highly trustworthy DOES NOT mean that townies should defer ALL power to him, as we are in danger of doing currently.
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On March 26 2008 16:52 Ghar wrote: The currently list nets half the Mafia. I believe working with that information is a good idea. Cross analyzing them will reduce the list down substantially.
Working on abstained voters, you can't really work on them can you? On that point:
Ace is not suggesting we Cross Reference. His plan involves splitting the list and re-checking numbers.
Cross referencing is taking a new sample, and a new number... and seeing how many people are on both lists, how many people suddenly dropped out from voting. How many people aren't on either list and so forth.
Working with abstained voters:
Chuiu, can detectives check abstain lists?
We can ask why they abstained, check the number of times they abstain, look for patterns of inactivity or unwillingness to vote... Suggesting that abstaining voters aren't able to be examined is highly flawed. (Remember inactive non-voters are kicked).
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On March 26 2008 17:00 Alventenie wrote: Sigh, first of all, I am not Ace, I am Alventenie, not a mayor, just a townie.
Also, based off of your first post, the 1/7 groups is statistically the worst decision to try to go after in theory (which is what you are basing your post on). In reality, it moves us closer to 1 mafia, but that could take up to 2 more turns to find (say he is in the 4 group, split 2/2, then split 1/1), where as the group of 10/58 could be split into smaller groups which find more mafia in smaller groups (you could easily see 4 or 5 mafia in a group of 14 the very next day, which is anywhere from 27%-32% chance of mafia), but aside from that, we find innocent townies. Yes, find the 1/7 group will find us 6 innocents, but breaking up the large group of 58, we could find groups of 14 or more innocent people. A big deal with this is the number of detective abilities we are allowed to use, therefore eventually some groups won't be questioned about. Therefore while i see that 1/7 is easier to figure out, I would rather move along with the 2 groups of 29 because you are going to find more mafia faster, giving vigilantes targets, allowing us to reduce mafia kill count faster.
Finding one mafia compared to finding 10 mafia, I will stay on the 10 side. Its taking a risk, but that risk has a much larger reward compared to finding the 1 mafia (which Ace has already stated that we will find that one, because he is checking the group of 7 as well as the 2 groups of 29). So I really don't see why its such a huge deal that he is making people vote the way he wants to tomorrow. As it stands, nobody has spoken against Ace, so he is trustworthy, both the group of 7 and 58 will be checked tomorrow (you said we should check the group of 7, its being done already).
Cross checking the lists takes extra time, more notes, and most of all, sometimes it doesn't work. I would rather go with a concrete list of, I know this many people on this list are Mafia, so I want to keep it that way. I have no problem with that thinking, and until it proves ineffective I believe its the route that Ace is going to take for finding mafia. Find me where I confused you with Ace. If I said Ace, I was talking to Ace (It is his plan after all, not yours).
Extra time? Negative. What takes extra time is forcing votes for 4 turns to find 1 mafia (and you tell me this is the best group?). 4 turns, each time increasing the number of detectives you need... Thats 6 lots of DT power you are suggesting just for the smaller group (which I said right from the beginning was the best).
Don't even get me started on the time and resources required to produce results from the group of 58... FIFTY EIGHT PEOPLE. You're looking at weeks of game time, and many many DT powers used when they could be doing something more useful.
Again, missing all the points you didn't like to counter. My argument was never meant to be taken on a point by point basis. Even when it is however, it still stands up to your current ideas.
You haven't even touched for a second on the inherent problems with forced voting (for a huge number of turns your suggesting), even leaving aside that you cut out any entertainment that those townies might have had.
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On March 26 2008 17:10 Alventenie wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2008 16:56 Alethios wrote:On March 26 2008 16:49 Alventenie wrote:On March 26 2008 16:44 Alethios wrote:On March 26 2008 16:38 Alventenie wrote: Ok, I'll post about your argument, I didn't use a calculator, but i have rough numbers for you.
Saying using the powers on 2x groups of 29 on a 10/58 group of mafia is his worst choice (it isnt, the 1/7 is). That means the remaining people are thrown into a group of (103-65 = 38), that means 9/38 (~23.4%) of guessing. The only problem with having those 38 vote, is that
A) They all voted for different people/abstained B) They didn't vote at all, meaning they are away, not wanting to post
So what Ace is doing is he is having the people he know for sure posted and voted, to use them, rather than trying an uncertainty of getting people that may be away/inactive to vote. That is why his way is the most reasonable way of doing the votes. If i had anything to guess at, he probably will use a double lynch tomorrow because of the 2 groups, because otherwise you will have 2 even groups (but that could change with the day post) 1) Lets say we do the split. (putting aside all the concerns about where that might leave us) Lets look at the numbers. Chances are, the Death Cult members will be split reasonably evenly amongst the groups, resulting in similar percentages to what we have now. Nothing can be done with this information, but to repeat the process. Resulting in multiple Kangaroo courts each time hoping that we get lucky and a Mafia member is singled out. 2) He sets up the suspects, uses the double lynch and forces us to vote the way he wants us to. Can you not see how much power this will give him? It doesn't matter if they split evenly, he is forcing the mafia to vote, AND he is making them vote the way he wants them to. Otherwise they could vote for whoever they wish, whether abstain, or voting for someone with little votes to make it look like they are trying to be helpful. The fact that he has that power means he is forcing the mafia to play on his own terms. That puts the mafia at a disadvantage because that means they will be voting for their fellow teammates (as shown with Mandolar). He sets up the suspects, yes, he does, it gives him a lot of power, but I see no reason as to not trust him as of yet. No detectives have spoken up yet, I've talked to him in PMs a couple times, and he seems no threat to me at all as a townie. Therefore, until he pulls some stunt that warrants enough suspicion, I have no problem with him using such power to have the town move forward in lynching mafia. Also, even if I did have a problem with it, there would be nothing I could do since the vast majority of the town trusts Ace, and will follow him. Well done for once again, missing my point entirely. Also good job on skimming over the bits of my original post you didn't care to argue with. Yes criminals had to vote against Mandolar. He was dead anyway, and the mafia would not have swayed the vote in any case. ---------- I realise Ace is highly trustworthy. I realise most of the town will follow him whatever he decides to do. What does that matter though? Highly trustworthy does not mean he is incapable of making mistakes. Highly trustworthy does not mean is can't be a demon in disguise. Highly trustworthy DOES NOT mean that townies should defer ALL power to him, as we are in danger of doing currently. I did read your entire post, and my post was relevant to point 1, and 2. If the vote is split evenly, then mafia are going to be found whether it was cross checked or not. Working with smaller numbers is easier (as noted in the previous post). Also, while criminals voted against Mandolar, it wasn't because they wanted to, they had to vote or be cast in suspicion. What if that group of 58 was all townies? The mafia wouldn't of swayed the vote, but they voted anyway to keep us guessing as long as possible. Well now Ace is continuing to force them to vote, otherwise they will be exposed even faster. Highly trustworthy does not mean he is incapable of making mistakes. - I never said he was infallible, I am just saying that he knows more guaranteed townies than I do, therefore he has more information than i do. Highly trustworthy does no mean he can't be a demon in disguise. - This has been proven wrong, time and time again. While it is a possibility, I highly doubt that no detectives (definitely by night 2, would have been working for him (we have had 2 for the lists of day 1 lynchings)) would have not spoken up saying he was mafia. Also, if he was mafia, why would he deliberately tell us where 11 mafia were? That doesn't sound logical Highly trustworthy does not mean that townies should defer all power to him, as we are in danger of doing currently. - While I agree with this to a certain degree, I don't defer all my power to him, I could abstain tomorrow, Ace knows my role, and it would not change the findings on the detective checks tomorrow. However, a normal townie should have nothing to fear by voting by his word, because he has done nothing to prove that he is mafia (because of the detectives). Those 3 statements you made may make sense to you, but to me, 1 is telling me that Ace is human, and not perfect, and the other 2 have been proven wrong, and proven not to be hazardous yet, so I don't see anything wrong with his plan. I see i'm going to have to stick with this.
Nice job continuing to argue against my argument without reading the majority of it. I'm especially annoyed you argue against my point that Ace could be a Minion of Baal without realising that i've already addressed that point.
Likewise with my point about deferring power. I've addressed this, by voting the way Ace wants us to we defer ALL the power (as townies) that we have (to vote). If we don't obey, the system breaks down, if somebody goes inactive for a day, the system breaks down.
Following Ace's current plan is giving absolute power to him for indefinite amount of time.
I'm not suggesting voting for the person Ace puts forward (like last time). Again, read what I said so I don't have to keep reposting it.
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+ Show Spoiler +On March 26 2008 17:19 Alventenie wrote:From this post: Show nested quote +On March 26 2008 16:49 Alethios wrote: Whats more, why bother posting rough numbers? You ARE on a computer you know. You COULD calculate these things properly easily.
By saying that the 1/7 group is the worse list really shows how little thought you've put into this.
Just because there is a slightly higher percentage of Assassins in the larger list, doesn't mean it's somehow easier to get at them. They are hidden amongst the masses, requiring a huge amount of effort to get at. At least with the 1/7 group, a single repeater will put the Assassin in a new list with, at worst, a 25% Assassin percentage.
Can't you see i'm talking sense Ace? Please drop this plan. Cross referencing lists will be far more effective at singling out Undead. At the bottom, "Can't you see i'm talking sense Ace?" Ace hasn't responded to you since last page, you have been talking with me the entire page. I kindly direct you to where I said:
On March 26 2008 17:10 Alethios wrote: If I said Ace, I was talking to Ace. I said Ace, it's his plan i'm trying to change, not yours. Thus, Ace: Change your plan. + Show Spoiler +On March 26 2008 17:19 Alventenie wrote:Also from your first post: Show nested quote +On March 26 2008 15:35 Alethios wrote:
That being said, I by and large trust Ace and I have a large dose of respect for many of his ideas... but what has prompted me to speak up is this plan of his for tomorrow's vote.
IT'S RETARDED.
As far as my posts, they were directed at mostly this. All your point from my point of view is about tomorrows votes, not future votes past tomorrow. Therefore, all these extra resources that you say I am saying we should do (I put them out there as something that could happen, because as it is now, that is what Ace's plan is, I don't know if he will continue to use that as his plan or not). Therefore a majority of your counter points (or first points according to you) are from what I am saying about days past tomorrow. Don't think like that, I am posting because you say this plan is retarded for tomorrow's votes, not day 4, or 5, or 6, but day 3. So until you get over the fact that I am talking about tomorrow, I am going to ask you to stop having negativity towards me about future days. Ace could have a different plan for then, I don't know, all I know is what the plan is tomorrow. Can't you see that Ace's plan requires a sustained commitment? If the chase is given up tomorrow, we've achieved nothing... at great cost. Thus, I think it was fair to pitch my later arguments at a sustained enforced voting plan.
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On March 26 2008 17:24 Alventenie wrote: I know you are not suggesting we vote for the person Ace puts forward tomorrow, you are against it. I've been posting this entire last page about how we should follow Ace's plan, not against it (like you have). If I was against his plan I wouldn't even of bothered posting, however as you said, if people don't follow the plan, it will break down, to an extent. If mafia don't follow the voting plan, then we find ourselves lots of townies, if townies don't follow it, we find some townies, but gain little ground finding mafia.
And for the last thing I have to say (its 4:30 am, I am kind of tired), I have addressed your points in your argument, you just seem that what I am saying doesn't apply to them. If you wanted me to break your post down sentence by sentence I could, but I was answering generally to the points that you seemed to advocate. I've suggested right from the beginning that if Ace gives us another Mandalor, we should go for it. What i've been arguing against is the enforced voting, where we vote for X or Y or else.
On March 26 2008 17:22 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2008 16:18 Alethios wrote:
Put simply... 1/7 Guilty in the first lot (this is your better sample) is still only 14.3% mafia. Compare this to the total murderers in the game, over the total players. 22/130 = 16.9% mafia
Then you have your 10/58 Guilty in the second lot.... Which is slightly more at 10/58 = 17.2% but still not far from the mean. Furthermore, much more effort is required to separate out these mafia than in the first lot.
Seriously... I don't buy your "math isn't adding up" for a second. I realise that (assuming you ARE town) you have to maintain the trust of the town, but persisting with this stupid scheme isn't helping in the slightest. You're still wrong, Out of those 7 people you think I don't know that some of them are 100% innocent? At this point if you don't realize I'm innocent I cant but help in thinking you're either purposely trying to mislead the town or just plain old haven't been reading the thread. The list of 7 people I think is wrong, but go ahead if you wish. It'll still take a number of turns (and detectives) in any case, resources that might be put to better use. I'll warn you now though, your seemingly sturdy plans will fall down as soon as people start missing votes, or dissenting.
On March 26 2008 17:22 Ace wrote: At this point if you don't realize I'm innocent I cant but help in thinking you're either purposely trying to mislead the town or just plain old haven't been reading the thread. Where is the fabled Ace of old? Is this the best you can come up with? Not even an attempt to counter my logic? For shame.
EDIT: Screwed up my quotes, leaving this unedited long enough for Ace to have a good look though.
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+ Show Spoiler +On March 26 2008 17:45 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2008 17:34 Alethios wrote:
I've suggested right from the beginning that if Ace gives us another Mandalor, we should go for it. What i've been arguing against is the enforced voting, where we vote for X or Y or else.
The entire point of the enforced voting to those who can see it is not only to find a Mafia but to find out which townies are 100% innocent. This way after tomorrows votes I possibly won't ever even have to do enforced voting. I'll have enough information on 11 possible mafia targets in no time just by the very fact that I'll know who's innocent + the innocents I know now. Show nested quote +On March 26 2008 16:18 Alethios wrote:
The list of 7 people I think is wrong, but go ahead if you wish. It'll still take a number of turns (and detectives) in any case, resources that might be put to better use. I'll warn you now though, your seemingly sturdy plans will fall down as soon as people start missing votes, or dissenting.
It will take 1 turn, and thats only if one of them dont die. The list will be split 4/3. 1 Mafia among them. I already know some of those guy's roles. Once I find out which side the Mafia is on it's going to be at worst 1/4 or 25% chance of finding him without applying prior knowledge. The other half of that list is automatically innocent. How are you figuring it will take us more than 1 turn? 1 detective - 1 turn. Thats it. If people miss votes when they've had WAY more than enough time so be it. It's the burden on the Mafia. If they leave the group and no other townies does then we have our suspect. If he leaves and only 1 or 2 townies do also, BAM we still have our suspect. Where is the failure part of this plan? If all 7 of them vote differently even though some of those people already PM'd me saying they would vote the same to prove their innocence? You're arguments isn't adding up because any innocent townie that would do what's best for the town would see how this works out. Show nested quote +
Where is the fabled Ace of old? Is this the best you can come up with? Not even an attempt to counter my logic? For shame. .
Counter what logic? Anyone playing this game that read the plan knows I'm innocent right now. It's impossible for me to be Mafia. Just because you cooked up some fabled scenario for some reason to confuse the town doesn't mean the rest of us are going to buy it. That post was the silliest set of logic leaps I've seen and it clearly shows you are up to something. *sigh*..... Seriously.... You could have just brushed this all off but instead you go and pull this.
Defending the actions i've already conceeded... Denying there is any possibility you are Mafia. Not addressing any other points. Dude wtf?
As i've said, I don't believe you are mafia... but you COULD be.
->All it takes is for you to be a regular cultist. Detectives look at you, return nothing and thus don't speak out. ->The general town hears no outcry from anybody, and thus we go about "knowing" you are innocent. ->You kill off a teammate and the trust the town has for you is complete.
Again, I trust you. But I stick by my position. The person saying "Whoa, hold back just a bit ok?"
This doesn't affect your ability to kill mafia, so I don't know why you are bitching about it.
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On March 26 2008 17:57 Ace wrote: a regular cultist? wtf are you talking about.
Minion of Death, Shallow[bay]'s position in Game 1. Allow me to continue to have this bit of fun with synonyms.
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On March 26 2008 18:02 Ace wrote: sigh, ok.
Keep talking whatever nonsense keeps you happy. We'll ask you to go forward with the plan tomorrow, and whether or not your with us we'll do what we can. You haven't spoken against the DT flaw. You haven't spoken about why the 58 person split will work. You haven't spoken about why you will not concede a small fail safe (even though it won't hurt you per-se) You haven't told us why Cross Referencing, at least on the 58 person vote, will not work.
Why do you continue with this shrugging off? You only destabilise your position ever so slightly. Since your town (right), why don't you correct this?
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On March 26 2008 18:13 Ace wrote: I just answered that in the previous post.
There is no DT flaw as there are no Godfather roles. Which means the DT answers to someone's role always is 100% correct. Where's the flaw?
There is no way that all 4 DTs are inactive with me knowing Mandalor was Mafia + getting a vote count.
That takes care of your DT flaw.
What do you mean work? The 58 person split is not only to find Mafia, but to find out who's innocent. I don't know how many times we have to tell you this but you keep beating it into your head that there's some magical flaw.
I'm not Cross Referencing anything.
But above all else, I have at least 3 times as much information as YOU do. So obviously I know exactly why this plan works in ways you could never even fathom.
Don't tell me you really think I accused wurm by accident?
The Mafia isn't the only one playing mind games this time around. Urgh. Again.
I assume you are talking about this DT-non-flaw?
->You have the ability to ask me whether or not a specific clue points to a specific person and get a yes/no answer. ->You have the ability to, twice a game, ask me what role a specific person has.
Suppose you are regular mafia. What will a DT get when he asks chuiu what role you have? "Ace has no special role"
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Right, so after tomorrows vote you get:
4/20 Mafia in one list (With 10 people changing or abstaining) 5/29 Mafia in the other list.
What new information do you get from that? NONE.
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You aren't considering doing a separate independent vote, counting for mafia, then comparing lists... why?
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I don't see why you think you can bring in talk about wurm and how YOU are the one playing mind games this time! Expecting me to go "oh yes, you are very clever aren't you" Not relevant, sorry.
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On March 26 2008 18:27 Scorch wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2008 17:56 Alethios wrote: As i've said, I don't believe you are mafia... but you COULD be.
->All it takes is for you to be a regular cultist. Detectives look at you, return nothing and thus don't speak out. i don't believe it works that way. i definitely think asking Chuiu about a vanilla mafia's role would yield "plain mafia", not "no special role". what would be the point of the ability otherwise? i think Chuiu would have warned us after the detective plan was presented if the detective ability worked this way. See this is just me, but unless somebody asks Chuiu a question... I haven't seen him answer any.
If we get an answer from Chuiu about this, saying that the question would yield "plain mafia", I will of course withdraw any and all comments regarding Ace's allegiance.
That being said, I'm still convinced there are more efficient methods for tomorrows vote.
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Assuming that we are still theoretically unsure about your allegiance, the most logical course for the town to take would be to vote as normal. Opening up the ability to cross reference while not giving you absolute power.
Assuming we DO know you are town, then your course of action... as you say... is likely the best. We can assume you have much more information than us and thus probably know what you are doing when manipulating the vote.
No doubt, we'll have received an answer before tomorrow... so it won't make much difference.
Assuming the question goes your way, I'm glad to see you stand up under close scrutiny. If not, you've dug yourself a deep enough hole now that I am satisfied either way.
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On March 26 2008 18:50 Pangolin wrote: You'd have to be pretty paranoid not to trust Ace at this point. I said right from the outset that I trusted Ace. Just spotted a potential flaw that hadn't been addressed yet. Enjoyed the argument too :D
Things are looking really up for the town at the moment, and what is the pillar of that? Ace. Thought I'd better make sure he was working for the side we all think he is.
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Right well, I suppose I'd better make some statement.
I felt compelled to test Ace, as this was something nobody seemed interested in doing. It was highly unlikely he was Mafia, but you can't tell me a test wasn't at least constructive. Likely to, no matter the outcome, strengthen the town.
I realised from the beginning that the "flaw" almost certainly didn't exist, but thought it would be a good way to test Ace, and to perfect his plan.
If any doubt was remaining in anybody's mind regarding Ace's allegiance, it should now be dispelled. He reacted calmly, even as my attacks got more and more "Red Flag Waving", trying to entice some mistake from him.
Secondly, I wasn't convinced Ace's plan of action was the best. I'm sure others felt the same. Attacking a plan in a debate is not a bad thing. The process, in general, strengthens the plan. Either because the plan takes on new, more efficient aspects, or simply because more people are willing to follow it.
I'm disappointed by the reaction to the debate last night.
On March 26 2008 20:24 Showtime! wrote: First of all, I don't have to post shit in response to your retardness because why would I plant anything in the mafia's head? Do you think I'm stupid? Get your head out of your ass. You really couldn't buy a clue. :. you must be mafia. You have no idea of who my suspects are dumbass. Do you honestly think I would post my elaborate plan for the public? I don't think so. I'm glad you're going to be gone soon.
Naaaa, naaaa, na, naaaa, naaaa, naaaa, heeeeey, heeeeey, heeeeey goooood-bye! Showtime! waited until after i'd left to hurl insults at me, obviously not willing to take me on directly. "Do you think I'm stupid?" Yes, either that or your a very good actor.
On March 26 2008 19:49 Plexa wrote:*sigh* while you make some valid points Alethios you continually resort to claiming the moral high ground in all the arguments while not developing your own. TBH some of your points are really weak.. its a shame you are a fellow kiwi Anyway, Ace's plans will obviously work. As far as i can tell is that this plan isn't to identify all mafia 100% in the first go, its to build a better picture of the towns make up and change various probabilities when calculating risk. This is justification enough for me to go along with his plan.
Plexa accuses me of arguing by simply claiming the moral high ground and not advancing points. I ask you Plexa, given Alventenie was arguing points i'd already covered, can you really blame me?
What is wrong with examining the plans that will obviously work? Are you saying that you knew right from when he suggested it that it couldn't possibly be any better?
A shame i'm a fellow Kiwi? I don't really know what to say to that. "Likewise" perhaps?
On March 27 2008 00:16 Kau wrote: Man Alethios.. If you understood the detective ability you could've saved us all 3 pages of junk. Kau, it wasn't junk. It was a debate which, I feel, progressed the town forward. Perhaps if you actually had something thoughtful or constructive to put forward, you could have saved us a line of junk.
On March 27 2008 01:42 ~OpZ~ wrote: Kiwi?
;-; I feel confused....
Also...Seriously....Looking at Ace's plan and saying it's retarded or saying he's not confirmed...Ask Chuiu if Mafia's roles get told when you ask about someones role, and you tell us what he says. Then ask yourself:
Do you feel lucky? A Kiwi is slang for a New Zealander.
Again with the same statement, copyed and pasted from the last guy. Urgh.
On March 27 2008 09:44 ~OpZ~ wrote: Ow....
Oh...So guess what Alethios....Chuiu just proved your theory entirely false...Seeing as Mafia is considered a role...Just as TOWNIE is considered a role....
So I'd assume you are now a suspect.
Atleast...yea... Same point as before, but this time my entire theory is false. Perhaps you could point me to the post where Chuiu called upon his skills as an Engineering Science Professor and hauled out the various statistics required to prove my testing plan was inferior. Does it even matter if it was? Each idea needs to be tested against another in order to refine it.
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Sorry about the length. Interesting day ahead of us.
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On March 28 2008 01:46 Ace wrote: LucasWoj said he protected showtime who got hit
No Vigilante put a hit on Showtime, therefore Showtime is Innocent From what you've told us, they could both be Evil Bastards. Lying about being hit isn't too hard, can imagine it would be a pretty clever ploy from both of them to gain our trust. Or am I missing something?
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On March 28 2008 14:05 Showtime! wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2008 13:53 Alethios wrote:On March 28 2008 01:46 Ace wrote: LucasWoj said he protected showtime who got hit
No Vigilante put a hit on Showtime, therefore Showtime is Innocent From what you've told us, they could both be Evil Bastards. Lying about being hit isn't too hard, can imagine it would be a pretty clever ploy from both of them to gain our trust. Or am I missing something? i just had to point this out again. my God, how do you sleep at night? Laying it on a bit thick don't you think?
You know, I wasn't even inferring anything about your character when you said that. My apologies if you were offended by the term I used, trying to keep coming up with new euphemisms for shits and giggles.
I was saying it's POSSIBLE that both LucasWoj and yourself are both Mafia, and it is. You know it, I know it, Ace knows it. So keep your personal attacks to yourself, and try to come up with something constructive for once.
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It's been that kind of day
Thanks Tuna. Sorry showtime.
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Obviously last night's conversation didn't faze you wurm. Ace is not a suspect. He's not infallible, but it's a virtual certainty he's working for us.
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On March 30 2008 04:51 Plexa wrote: [spoiler]Mandalor could have been; Mr White Black Mamba King Brown Snake The Wolf Mr Blue Snake Charmer Cottonmouth
Of these Snake Charmer seems to fit the best... a google search of Mandalor's name reveals a common theme of knights (despite there being no real meaning for the name) Seeing as there are no other clues anywhere in mandalor's profile/quote etc im 99% he was snakecharmer You probably know this, but "Snake Charmer" was the Codename for Bill (the leader) of the Deadly Vipers Assassination Squad.
On March 30 2008 14:08 qrs wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2008 11:40 Amber[LighT] wrote:On March 30 2008 09:47 qrs wrote: *Jaw drops*. If Ghar was a townie, I'm done with clue interpretation. Looks like you're done interpreting clues. Thank you, Captain Obvious. Anytime.
On March 30 2008 04:23 LTT wrote: Voted for Wurm but shouldn't have - 5 Ace - (Safe, lol) Amber[LighT] Puosu Alethios(2) Siefu decafchicken
The people, such as myself, who voted but "shouldn't have" are actually doing the town a favour. If the mafia count on those two lists combined don't increase, the extra people are all townies. Waiting on Ace to post the counts. I hope we are still getting them.
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Ace seems to think he can win without our help. The vigilantes will be busy won't they?
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It's come to my attention that this thread must be closed, and a majority of the town's inhabitants banned.
I quote, from the Ten Commandments: "And please don't try to be Freud or Jung. Don't second-guess the motives for why someone wrote something... ...Avoid responding with comments filled with half-baked psychoanalytical presumptions about the poster's imputed agenda or their psych profile... ...Stop psychoanalyzing - you don't have a license to practice. "
I rest my case
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Nice find GranDim! A hentai series you say? Hmmm... I won't ask...
Looking at the full picture, the girl looks less like a wolf than in the small cut from the profile. It could still be a valid clue, because it's unlikely Chuiu knew of the larger picture. The strength of the clue is of course diminished however.
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Ace, I'm wondering if you have any further information for us. I realise there have been many DT deaths recently, but we've only gotten mafia counts on 2 vote lists. Will we be receiving this information today?
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Well i'm back, it's been pretty hellish here recently.
Yeah, Ace and randombum have no need to fear for their lives. Another 2 Bodyguards left. We can be fairly certain that mafia will not target them on the same night the last bodyguard is killed either... risking wasting a kill.
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This is kind of scary...
Mayor is elected. (4 double lynches remaining, voting power of 6) Pardoner is elected. (6 pardons remaining) 2 of 6 Bodyguards alive. 3 of 4 Vigilante alive. 0 of 4 Detective alive. 7 of 7 Veteran alive. 4 of 7 Paramedic alive. 0 of 2 Mad Hatter alive. 0 of 2 Jack alive.
6 out of 6 of the most important roles are dead. The Jacks and the Detectives have been pulverized, slaughtered, murdered, killerized, shot, deathed, made dead and are now pushing up daisys six feet under with no respawn point in sight.
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On April 19 2008 14:48 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2008 13:29 fusionsdf wrote:On April 19 2008 12:35 L wrote:The name "pangolin" derives from the Malay word pengguling ("something that rolls up"). annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd? I agree, unless one of the Mafia's names is Mr. Carpet or there's someone with a tendency to blaze a fat joint before they kill, this doesn't help us much. I'm sure you could infer that from some of the clues.
For instance:
"sickly looking fellow known as Sidewinder"
Clearly he was pretty blazed... either that or he'd been drinking tequila (don't drink that shit... the hangover is still going strong).
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So... the car numberplate theory worked out. Good job Amber[LighT]! :p
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On April 21 2008 07:53 SoleSteeler wrote: Agh
I'm not mafia
Trust me
When I was accused before, I said not to look at one part of my name. Now I need to say soul stealer != SoleSteeler. SoleSteeler has nothing to do with draining life, or energy, or anything. We need to stick with the people we know are mafia, trust me, I am not mafia. Sorry to say this dude... but thats not what i'd call a good defense.
"Trust me" says absolutely nothing. Anybody under suspicion, town or mafia, would want players to trust them.
Likewise the SoleSteeler/SoulStealer connection. You can't deny that the two are homonyms... enough for Chuiu to build a clue around your name being "Soul Stealer"
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On April 21 2008 16:28 MTF wrote: Defense is the least valuable weapon in proving your innocence, by the by. Initiative to point out specific flaws in your accusers information is appreciated, but the most powerful thing you can do is convincingly point the finger in another persons direction. Not saying you absolutely need to at this point, just saying that such helpfulness in general is a good thing to have on your side when you start getting accused. :p
I have to disagree with you on this point. Many have tried to "convincingly point the finger" at somebody else, but since they're under suspicion their finger pointing generally goes unnoticed.
If SoleSteeler knows he's town, a defense analysing the premises behind his accusation is perfectly valid. Helps us not lynch the wrong person, Saving that precious lynch for somebody else while also not killing another soldier in the fight against the swarm. Thus, defending yourself IS helpful.
Personally, pending further evidence, I believe SS has acquitted himself admirably on this count. He was accused based upon Day/Night clues... and he's shown that the connection between himself and Mr.Pink is tenuous at best.
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On April 22 2008 15:40 Plexa wrote: i'll come right out and say it - L and L alone should be protecting me tonight Thats a rather interesting thing to be telling everybody.
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On April 23 2008 15:18 Chuiu wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Copperhead found Falcynn working late at school on an essay. He saw him at a computer typing it up and crept up from behind. Copperhead grabbed his chair and wheeled him into a printer table off to the side knocking several things from the shelves onto him. Falcynn pushed himself away from it and got up to defend himself, he grabbed a pen which had fallen onto the ground and slashed upward with it at Copperhead. Copperhead grabbed a keyboard and used it as a shield, he deflected the pen and smashed it into Falcynn. He grabbed another keyboard off to the side and use both of them as weapons smacking Falcynn every open spot he could find. He finally got him into a corner and kicked him in the gut then finished Falcynn off by smashing his head between the two keyboards.
I'm not generally one to analyse clues, preferring instead to leave that to others and focus upon people's actions and speach.... but when i read this, a giant light bulb lit up above my head.
This paragraph really seems to bring to mind PurePwnage, in particular the two keyboard/micro fight scenes. First when Jeremy fights himself in the door-less room in Season 1 episode 4 "Pwn or Be Pwned" and second when he fights Vruckter (sp?) in the Netherlands during episode 11, season 1. Perhaps Copperhead is a gamer of some sort?
I'll have to go watch the two scenes again, but his opponents wear ninja costumes, it's generally very dark and in both cases two characters spar using keyboards.
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Changing my quote from "There's somebody here... they stole your underpants" to "*thick german accent* Design design design... if you don't do design... you're TOAST!" for personal reasons *cries*
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This hasn't been pointed out yet, but Randombum's role of pardoner only really has one purpose:
To stop a lynching when it has been swayed by the mafia.
To be honest, pardons will only become important towards the end of a game... when a full team of active mafia might be able to sway a vote away from one of them onto a townie (assuming many town are inactive).
"33 of 85 possible votes [were] accounted for" in the last round of voting at the time 14 mafia were alive. Think about that... if all the mafia voted.. they'd make up near 50% of the vote count.
It isn't hard to imagine all voting for one person (now that all detectives are dead), add a bit of bandwagoning in there... and... dead townie.
Thus, it's going to be important later for randombum to use his pardons if it becomes obvious a person is innocent yet to be lynched.
However, if randombum uses or had used his power before such a situation occured, he would instantly be a prime suspect of protecting mafia.
Unfortionately, under Chuiu's current system of voting... a pardoner has very little time to react and use his pardon. A pardoner would need to be active... yet randombum isn't... which leads me on to my next point nicely.
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Does everybody remember the mayoral elections? Our two main candidates were Ace and Randombum. The two had similar ideas about how to lead the town to victory... with Ace winning out in the end because he came up with many of them.
I'd like to draw your attention to a PM I received (and i'm assuming most... if not all of you also received).
Hey, you barely know me, but you might have seen me around TL.net particularly the mafia game. This is just a PM to ask you to vote for me for mayor, because that would rock. I'm sure you have your own ideas, but if you are undecided and don't know whom to vote for, please consider me, randombum. Here are some reasons as to why I would be a good choice. 1: I spend far too much time at home, so I will always have time to check tl.net and do the double lynch if the town asks. 2: I will always double lynch if town asks (a good thing) 3: I will be taking an active role trying to figure out clues and this way I will be able to willingly post them without fear of mafia taking me out. 4: I took the time to write this pm to you hoping to convince you so you do not have to look though pages of spam in the actual thread.
Thanks, randombum
Now there are two things to notice here... firstly randombum's first point.
He states that he spends far too much time at home... and will always have time to tl.net. He's implying that he'll be very active throughout the game... Where is he now however? I can't remember the last time I saw a post from him... He didn't vote this day... He abstained yesterday (when a mafia was lynched)... Day 5 was curiously absent of a randombum vote. Day 4 was yet another abstention. Day 3 was the day of inforced voting, and randombum voted as required... So i'll stop here.
Next... look at his 4th point. "so you do not have to look though pages of spam in the actual thread" So randombum doesn't want us to read what is said on the thread? Interesting.
Picture i'm trying to paint here is of a person, whose status is unknown, who after an impassioned mayoral campaign (which he narrowly lost) has done exactly what he needs to do to escape notice. I wouldn't have noticed either, if it were not for the curious contrast between his mayoral promises and his observable behavior.
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Huh... big ass points posted since i started writing (yes it took me hours... i went out).
Including a rare randombum post... now personally i'm inclined to trust him... but his post does align with my theory of doing exactly what he needs to do to escape notice.
Make a post or two defending yourself if any suspicion is raised... then fall back into being anonymous.
The fact you didn't receive many votes isn't really valid by the way... there were detectives in the game at the time... and this round's legion of the damned would not want to be caught out like they were in the previous game.
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Plexa... would you mind elaborating why you have 40% confidence of infundibulum's guilt when you couldn't find any clues relating to him?
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On April 27 2008 17:48 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2008 17:42 Alethios wrote: This hasn't been pointed out yet, but Randombum's role of pardoner only really has one purpose:
To stop a lynching when it has been swayed by the mafia.
To be honest, pardons will only become important towards the end of a game... when a full team of active mafia might be able to sway a vote away from one of them onto a townie (assuming many town are inactive).
"33 of 85 possible votes [were] accounted for" in the last round of voting at the time 14 mafia were alive. Think about that... if all the mafia voted.. they'd make up near 50% of the vote count.
It isn't hard to imagine all voting for one person (now that all detectives are dead), add a bit of bandwagoning in there... and... dead townie.
Thus, it's going to be important later for randombum to use his pardons if it becomes obvious a person is innocent yet to be lynched.
However, if randombum uses or had used his power before such a situation occured, he would instantly be a prime suspect of protecting mafia.
Unfortionately, under Chuiu's current system of voting... a pardoner has very little time to react and use his pardon. A pardoner would need to be active... yet randombum isn't... which leads me on to my next point nicely.
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Does everybody remember the mayoral elections? Our two main candidates were Ace and Randombum. The two had similar ideas about how to lead the town to victory... with Ace winning out in the end because he came up with many of them.
I'd like to draw your attention to a PM I received (and i'm assuming most... if not all of you also received).
Hey, you barely know me, but you might have seen me around TL.net particularly the mafia game. This is just a PM to ask you to vote for me for mayor, because that would rock. I'm sure you have your own ideas, but if you are undecided and don't know whom to vote for, please consider me, randombum. Here are some reasons as to why I would be a good choice. 1: I spend far too much time at home, so I will always have time to check tl.net and do the double lynch if the town asks. 2: I will always double lynch if town asks (a good thing) 3: I will be taking an active role trying to figure out clues and this way I will be able to willingly post them without fear of mafia taking me out. 4: I took the time to write this pm to you hoping to convince you so you do not have to look though pages of spam in the actual thread.
Thanks, randombum
Now there are two things to notice here... firstly randombum's first point.
He states that he spends far too much time at home... and will always have time to tl.net. He's implying that he'll be very active throughout the game... Where is he now however? I can't remember the last time I saw a post from him... He didn't vote this day... He abstained yesterday (when a mafia was lynched)... Day 5 was curiously absent of a randombum vote. Day 4 was yet another abstention. Day 3 was the day of inforced voting, and randombum voted as required... So i'll stop here.
Next... look at his 4th point. "so you do not have to look though pages of spam in the actual thread" So randombum doesn't want us to read what is said on the thread? Interesting.
Picture i'm trying to paint here is of a person, whose status is unknown, who after an impassioned mayoral campaign (which he narrowly lost) has done exactly what he needs to do to escape notice. I wouldn't have noticed either, if it were not for the curious contrast between his mayoral promises and his observable behavior. for someone who doesn't turn up to debate tournaments you're one to talk haha anyway, check out the voting thread for mayor... Empyrean was essentially in as pardoner (and safe as a detective). I think mafia wanted to stop someone with an important role like empy from getting in and have 6 BG protection.. thus 4 of them (queasy + albino and the suspects clazziquai/0zc7c) bumped Randombum over the top right at the end (some switching from empy to him) and hence i don't think he's mafia (but those last 4 are) Firstly... my apologies about the tournament, I had signed up and all... unfortunately something came up. How did you do?
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Granted, the mafia would prefer a non-detective with bodyguard protection with the position of pardoner... but they essentially only had one other option at that point anyway... randombum... furthermore... why wouldn't they want one of their own in that position?
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On April 27 2008 17:56 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +Plexa... would you mind elaborating why you have 40% confidence of infundibulum's guilt when you couldn't find any clues relating to him? his hat links very nicely to californian mountainsnake I was hoping you could specifically say how it relates.
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Perhaps PMs would be the best place for our off topic discussion.
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On April 27 2008 18:00 Alethios wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2008 17:56 Plexa wrote:Plexa... would you mind elaborating why you have 40% confidence of infundibulum's guilt when you couldn't find any clues relating to him? his hat links very nicely to californian mountainsnake I was hoping you could specifically say how it relates. To quote you: "Weapon of choice" potentially a sharp hat
Apologies for the triple post... but even if the motorized were sharp (which I find rather suspect... have you seen the hats in question) why would Californian Mountainsnake need to "[take] out his own weapon of choice" if it's upon his head?
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So a pardoner must 'pre-pardon' so to speak? Conceivably then the pardoner could pardoner somebody who doesn't end up with the most votes?
Interesting...
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So uh, back on topic for the moment...
/Bump thread too
...
Interesting the number of people voting for lostyourskills but not ieatkids... The evidence seems much stronger for the former. Perhaps some more analysis on ieatkids might come in handy?
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On MoreMinerals
He's been voting for me ever since I challenged Ace, seeking assurance for myself and the rest of the town (and was assured btw). I'd suggest he saw this as seditious and decided I must be punished.
No idea why he's voting for Korvspad now however... it seems like a break from the pattern.
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MTF called the twilight results. Could it be because he already knew?
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On May 03 2008 17:23 MTF wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2008 17:00 Alethios wrote:MTF called the twilight results. Could it be because he already knew? Yes. I am an all-seeing seer who saw with seasoned sights the suspects. Sorry, just read a blog thread about tongue-twisters. Anyway, gonna edit out all but the lists from what I posted above into a more complete version lower. Are you call'd forth from out a world of men to slay the innocent?
Who knew the allegiance of LYS and Ieatkids before their skin colour was revealed?
Two factions.
-Chuiu's mob -The Burning Legion
Since you're playing the game (and thus cannot be running it) and knew the outcome of the Lynch beforehand... the only conceivable reason for your foresight is your affiliation with the damned.
You're caught Red Handed.
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On May 03 2008 22:02 MTF wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2008 21:55 Alethios wrote: Are you call'd forth from out a world of men to slay the innocent?
Who knew the allegiance of LYS and Ieatkids before their skin colour was revealed?
Two factions.
-Chuiu's mob -The Burning Legion
Since you're playing the game (and thus cannot be running it) and knew the outcome of the Lynch beforehand... the only conceivable reason for your foresight is your affiliation with the damned.
You're caught Red Handed. Ah, again logic bests me and my true intentions are revealed. Yes, I'll come right out and say it: I am a complete and utter asshole. I have helped bring down four of my fellow mafia thus far with my inside information for my own personal delight, all the while chuckling to myself knowing that I am hated for being red, and yet trusted among the green in a glorious paradox. C'mon...let me have my fun. Lynch me last. <delusional fantasy> + Show Spoiler +Alethios (aside) Gah... you shall not best me Sir! MTF I can smile, and murder while I smile. Alethios Out damned spot! Out! MTF Thus have I politicly begun my reign, And 'tis my hope to end successfully. Alethios O me, what hast thou done? MTF Nay, I know not Alethios What is thy name? MTF Thou'lt be afraid to hear it. My name's MTF. Alethios The devil himself could not pronounce a title More hateful to mine ear. They fight Alethios MTF, thou art bested. MTF O, yet defend me, friends; I am but hurt. The Townsfolk He is justly served. Alethios To you, town, remains the censure of this hellish villain; The time, the place, the torture: O, enforce it! The Townsfolk We shall my lord. MTF is lynched Alethios God and your arms be praised, victorious friends, The day is ours, the bloody dog is dead. </delusional fantasy>
Who is to be lynched next? Oh glorious leaders?
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To be fair, ZBiR is from Poland. Chuiu is from the US. I would very much doubt that the translation is from a langauge neither person is known to speak (or is known to be at all associated with).
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Wherefore do the unwashed forsake us?
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Fare thee well MTF, the traveler who returned. This indeed does puzzle the will.
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They have a night killing power of 6.
I assume from Ace's comment about our ex-vet that he's been hit once before. Given the look of the day post too, I assume only one kill was put into him.
Yet only 4 people die.
MTF was likely protected (or if he wasn't... the mafia assumed he was), so that explains one missing death. So i'm guessing either another vet took 50% damage, or Ace & Co pulled another successful paramedic save. Great work!
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Vote thread is probably the wrong place to have a discussion. So here's what i said there.
I vote clazziquai
He votes to lynch a corpse... he's been a prime suspect before... he didn't react very well to the suspicion. Why aren't we lynching him now, and saving GeneralStan till tomorrow? Perhaps i've missed something?
As you say, GeneralStan is "probably the most ubsubstantiated lynch yet", so why lynch him now?
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You say GeneralStan is a good option for a lynch, I believe you.
But you say you're certain Clazziquai is Mafia. Surely it's best not to give him another night to kill somebody then? Once that's done then we lynch Stan tomorrow?
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Aside from the direct clue evidence (which seems far more substantial now that you've fleshed it out plexa)...
What evidence do we have against Stan?
What are his voting patterns like? I haven't seen him post in a while. Does anybody have any notes on his behavior?
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Yep, you've sold me too. /vote Stan
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This thread needs one major bump....
BUMP
To business...
Go here and vote you pansies!
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On May 09 2008 15:57 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Chuiu is my biggest suspect now. When I wanted to vote for him, he threatened to use violence to prevent it. An obvious mafia-act. Clearly... lets get him.
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It does seem pretty suspicious, yeah...
"I was away for ages... trying not to attract any attention, but then now that you've started accusing me of murder i've been forced to start posting"
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On May 13 2008 13:57 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2008 13:08 Unforgiven_ve wrote:On May 13 2008 10:49 HeRoS)Pink wrote: joe is unforgiven like 95% sure everything fits perfectly with that character shaddap you mafia An airtight defense if I ever saw one, this man can't be Mafia. Agreed. It's simply inconceivable after that blistering defence. Tell me unforgiven, when were you appointed Q.C.?
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So much for Plexa being a shoe in for zombie by dawn.
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Bloody hell Plexa you bad ass... you played them brilliantly. 2 less kills last night all down to your machinations....
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Plexa is off to the "Thropy" debating tournament. I'd be going as well, but I must stay and build a bridge out of hot dog sticks. Be thankful you weren't hit with that double blow. :p
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Randombum is correct, we are in a far better position than at the start of the game. The mafia killing power is down from 12 to 5!
Even if we only ever kill one more mafia member, it would still take 10 nights (thats the current game length) to kill us all. Thats assuming there are no paramedic saves and all the remaining veterans have already been hit once.
We're in an excellent position to take this game, keep it up.
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Yep, unforgiven was mafia in the game I so spectacularly fucked up.
Three games in a row.... lucky bastard.
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Mafia sure do take their time... approaching two days now (and this is by no means the longest night of the game so far).
Seriously. HTFU!
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Man... four blues... nasty.
Clazziquai... shit man... try harder...
Do I even need to bother refuting your arguments??
Nope.
/Vote Clazziquai.
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On May 20 2008 19:22 Scorch wrote: Mafia do not need to kill veterans in order to win. If they find out someone is a veteran, they just let him live and concentrate on other targets. Once they find out that the person is a Vet... it's already too late. The kill has been used.
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Clazziquai seems like one of those Dr.Dragoon lynchings. The evidence is strong... everybody is sick of his inane prattle and he's being dumped in the vote thread.
Hopefully he won't turn out to be pumping green blood.
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Get out and vote here. All detectives are gone... so don't ever let the mafia sway the votes! Have a look at the evidence and make an informed decision. If you don't have the time to look at all the evidence, have a quick look and make your decision based upon somebody you trust.
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I meant the lynching of Dragoon from the first game... Though i'm sure you knew that Plexa.
What are you suggesting? :p
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On May 22 2008 11:45 clazziquai wrote: HEY PLEXA
I'm Mafia lol
No surprises there eh.
I'm not one to pay much attention to clues (as i've said.. i'm a mafia purist) but I could smell you a mile off. Try to be more subtle next time.
All the best.
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Ok seriously... wtf? Clazziquai turned red? All my theories about who is mafia have now been turned on their heads.
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Cheers Chuiu... you are one serious bad ass.
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Mafia have been taking very long with their hits these past... 8?... nights. The night seems to go on about as long as the day... which as experienced players should know is just ridiculous. Time is of the essence ye Death Cult!
With less people in the game though, each day/night cycle should be shorter.
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I assume you mean nights (not days?).
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This isn't warcraft... you can't be resurrected.
Stop posting here ye dead folk and find something else to do.
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"...Plexa behind him and quickly speed up the vehicle, pretty soon Plexa couldn't keep up and was being drug behind the car."
Drag is not an irregular verb. Coincidence?
I think not.
There is something sinister behind Plexa's mangled body. Could it be the Mafia rearing their ugly heads?
Perhaps.
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On a less serious note...
That was like the worst possible night hit. 2 hits into Plexa who dies + 2 blues. Nasty. Mafia seem to be killing our best people with astounding accuracy.
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Plexa seemed very sure of LTT.
As a last hurray for Plexa, we shall lynch his murderer: Mr. Pink.
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In regard to the LTT/Mr. Pink connection:
I'll refer you to this post.
Plexa spent hours in his examination of this bloke. Whats more, it's probably the best analysis i've seen from him. Lynch LTT here!
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Hear Hear.
Good on you Chuiu.
If your honor is that important to you mafia... tell us about it after the game. Until then, keep your dead mouths shut.
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For those of you too lazy to search for Mandalor...
Here are the results:
On the first page there were "100 results from 3 threads of 907 total results"
907... thats a fucking huge amount of shit to sift through... just on the off chance that somebody might have posted up a list that could help you.
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To clarify:
The plexa ninja edit is on Page 7.. Not distinguished from any other post about Mandalor. It's not the first, not the last... nothing shows that it was made by Plexa... nothing.
So you expect us to believe he siffted through over 600 virtually identical posts about him before finally hitting upon a Gold Mine? A likely story.
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Those lazy fookers. Get your shit together.
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No surprises in this day post...
The final bodygaurd... The Mayor A lately prominent detective.
What took you guys so long?
Remember to vote here!
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Actually... I tell a lie...
Only 3 kills? But the night killing power is 4... and there are no paramedics left.
Could the veteran who was hit last night come forward?
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To be honest...
While i'm a fan of what Ace has done so far... the mayor didn't have much left in him.
No double lynching remaining. No further blues to co-ordinate.
Granted, he was a confirmed townie and the extra votes power might have come in handy... but all in all Ace's death is not THAT much more important than any other townies.
Have hope town. The streets will run red with blood.
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Could the undead stop posting about how they are now in heaven/hell? Thanks.
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Methinks this thread needs a bump.
So i'll remind everybody to vote here!
It's important... so do so now!
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Screw it.... lets... whats the term?
Fuck him with a rake (which would cause his eventual death).
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Huh... strange turn of events...
Ace speaks to us from beyond the grave legitimately...
Unlike some others I could name.... *cough* Plexa... Mynock... *cough cough*
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Right....
So +10 posts from you Nemy without actually saying anything?
Good work.
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In regard to the contradiction... i'm going to go out on a limb here and tentatively suggest that there is only one Mr. Blond... so if say Nemy is evil on the turn (once Bockit turns red on the flop), jtan is good on the river...
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On June 05 2008 11:02 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2008 07:00 unsoundlogic wrote:
2. Everyone on the list of mafia are confirmed mafia. In the case of Jtan/Nemy, there is a contradiction between the two players and therefore one is mafia and the other is innocent.
Then you'd better lynch me first, because I'm "confirmed mafia" and I'm a townie; It'll show you how unreliable that fucking list is. I could be wrong here... but the list suggests to me that Ace thought you were mafia... However, earlier on in the game you claimed to be town and are currently unconfirmed as a townie (hence your lack of a # by your name).
Meh
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Ok... your second count is easier to answer... so i'll do so first.
I'm not debating the showtime! list! Ask somebody else that question.
And your first question:
Plexa seemed reasonably convinced before he died that one of you was Mr. Blond... so while Plexa was far from infallible... I think it makes sense to follow his lead.
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Wait a second... looking over some older posts... Plexa was posting about jtan/wolf...
I seem to be on crack.
Misled by you Nemy!!!! Why are you pushing the Mr. Blond/Nemy connection?
Clearly it's some kind of n'th order double agent counter fake bluffmeister.... but which order is it? Are you trying to deceive the town into thinking you are mafia? the mafia into thinking you are mafia? or the chuiu into thinking you are mafia? or perhaps the town into thinking you are town by damning yourself as mafia... while you are actually mafia posing as a townie accidentally on purpose damning himself as mafia... but perhaps you took into account somebody would make that connection... which leads me to believe that you are town right Nemy?
EDIT: Mr. Blond/Nemy... not Mr. Blond/Wolf >.< I need some sleep...
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Yeah sorry. Confused all the different codenames... i've never been very keen on all the clues.
My apologies.
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Oh camlito... not you too
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On June 07 2008 03:07 jtan wrote: ace seemed really sure that bockit was the fake vet though, and he asked us to lynch bockit the last day he was alive so I'm gonna go for bockit unless there's some major breakthrough before we're voting Going to have to agree with you there mate.
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Wow.... this is unexpected.
I'm very surprised that the mafia didn't take advantage of unsoundlogic's roleblock to kill him. Very interesting....
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At risk of sounding like a broken record...
Remember to cast your vote here!
It's damned important damn it!
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Wenches! Get voting!
14/48 votes is pathetic. We'll be steamrolled by the mafia once more of the active townies die.
*Edited for clarification*
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Why you wysp? Why could they not post it themselves?
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Is that because it's suddenly gotten much colder? or much scarier?
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How exactly will you be lasting longer? Do you deny that you took a hit earlier on in the game?
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Holy bananas Batman.... veterans have 3 lives!
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Cheers MTF. Probably the first useful piece of gutterspeech (o noes a WoW reference). Good to know that the dead aren't feeding any information. That would really stink.
Just on this "Detective Squad"..
It seems to me, that anybody presenting themselves as strong clue detective and/or linked to Ace/Plexa can pretty much be assured that they'll see their name come up in green at dawn. Calimto is a prime example of this. As a Plexa associate who only revealed himself after the death of Plexa, he was basically assured to be killed straight away. And thus it transpired.
These shadow group(s) obviously think (rightly or wrongly) that what they know or have worked out is correct, and that if they posted it... they would be killed immediately. This is why we're seeing posts through the veterans. Everybody is virtually assured of Bockit's guilt... which confirms the roles of all the veterans. The mafia might decide to kill all the messengers... but it would be costly to them, and these group(s) would then be able to simply use another veteran.
I don't think we're seeing any sort of cheating here... just a deluded sense of self-worth.
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That all being said.... suresh0t, you are so dead
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Actually... suresh0t.
You made quite clear before how you didn't think lynching Bockit was a good idea, and how much suspicion you'd be under if he turned red. As if you weren't under enough already.
How about this?
If Bockit turns up blue... i'll go the extra yard for the first time this game and search for evidence for your innocence to make sure you aren't lynched... so you can continue to bump this thread during work :p
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Fairness?
Who was he trying to implicate?
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All veterans are now 100% innocent.
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Wow... nice list.
It's probably not a big deal, but you could add a link to the day 14 night post now.
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On June 11 2008 13:39 ahrara_ wrote: when I am the last mafia lynched I am going to laugh Quoted for preservation.
Want to rephrase that?
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On June 11 2008 15:10 Wysp wrote: 0cz3z is next for sure. Agreed.
Tell us Shallow... what fate is in store for this one?
Btw Chuiu, great work with the night post :D
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EDIT: Hmmmm... looks good enough for me. What was the method of lynching again?
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Nice try nemY... but we're onto you.
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FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK.
P.S. Chuiu is mafia.
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On June 17 2008 15:59 randombum wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2008 15:04 Ace wrote:On June 17 2008 14:36 crazie-penguin wrote: wow cant believe mafia are still in this. Doesn't matter who wins, the mafia was the better team even with all the gay imbalances against us.
What imbalances? I'm interested in hearing it thru PM. There's quite a bit ace, lots that I think will be explained in our end-game summery. You do realise that the very nature of the game requires there to be imbalances.
It's like Zerg vs Terran. Two completely different teams that function in different ways. Bringing up any singular "imbalance" is saying nothing at all. You might say that it's imbalanced that town gets 6 confirmed bodyguards right off the bat... but have you considered how "unfair" it is that mafia have a minimum kills per night of 3? I can tell you now that your list of "imbalances" is meaningless.
Either the game is imbalanced or it isn't, you can't have multiple imbalances. The game is as balanced as Chuiu makes his clues... no more no less. Stop your whining just because you got your ass handed to you by a very clever town (who by the way... aren't done yet).
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On June 17 2008 17:32 Ace wrote:not exactly Alethios, Mafia can be very imbalanced towards Town or Mafia. Some roles if too many or too few can mess up the dynamics of the game. I'm interested in knowing what they felt were the imbalanced things that messed them up after game is over Now i'm going to have to disagree with you here.
I realise that a game can be very imbalanced towards Town or Mafia... but my point is that no individual thing is per se imbalanced.
Furthermore, i'll show that this game is not in and of itself imbalanced. But more on that once the game ends.
On that note... lets put aside the Meta-Mafia discussion until later eh?
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On June 18 2008 14:18 Fishball wrote: Keep the complaint and debate AFTER the game ends.
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On July 12 2008 14:31 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote: HAHAHAHAHAHA
It's funny because it's true.
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Oh that was nasty Mandalor...
Yeah... so I was the guy who delivered the dying wishes of Ace and the boys
As some have said, myself, Scorch, Wysp and Nemy formed a detective team of sorts...
I tried to keep my head down... attacking Ace at times... trying to give the impression I was just a spamming nobody... but you killed me off just before I could implement my master plan. (Was this just blind luck or did you suspect how much information would die with me?)
Oh well... GG!
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