There have been a total of 6 different mafia games so far, 3 run by Chuiu, one by Ace, one by Bloodyc0bbler, one aborted one by Caller, and one revised one by Caller.
+ Show Spoiler [Previous game links] +
Mafia 6 (aborted):
Here's a brief summary of each of them:
+ Show Spoiler [Summaries] +
Mafia 1: Mayor/Pardonner setup (townies get both). Basically town is retarded and when town intelligence level is too low mafia pretty much autowin if normal mafia balance numbers are used. Too many mafia for a low skill level game. Inactives hurt the game considerably and town surrenders quickly after lynching the mayor! Very one sided mafia win.
Mafia 2: Mayor/Pardonner setup (townie gets mayor, saboteur gets pardonner). Long drawn out game because of too many people + too many inactives. Town end up squeaking out a victory despite the mafia pulling off some sweet irc infiltration + finding a list of all known blues posted randomly somewhere due to murdering votelists, strong central organization through the mayor, and some good clue analysis efforts plus the mafia overstacked way too many kills. Close town win.
Mafia 3: No offices. The only game not crippled by inactivity. Ace gets inspected first round as mafia, gets the DT lynched but dies the next day. From here on the mafia just fold under poor strategy + a very overpowered town with good backdoor blue planning (votelists + too much town KP + lucky rolechecks/clue analysis i,e DECAF COFFEE LOL or N for Nemy!). Very one sided town win.
Mafia 4: Mayor/Pardonner (godfather gets mayor, medic gets pardonner). 2 mafia family game. Some irc infiltration (the lame kind of hiding invisibly rather than LTT's cool stunts) gave one family all the other family's roles + a bunch of blues and with good behavior analysis managed to snag virtually every blue with only 1 miss. Game ended prematurely due to role leakage but inactivity was crippling as usual with many blues being inactive. Very mafia sided win.
Mafia 5: No offices. DT gets myself killed day 1. Mafia manage to figure out and kill 10/15 blues by day 3 while the town was successful in killing 4/6 mafia with a combination of good rolechecks and votelists. However, the lack of blues was crippling and this combined with inactivity meant that the town could not win even with a 5/9 and 2/5 votelist.
Mafia 6 (aborted): Town was deemed too overpowered and the game was canceled quickly. Basically, invincible + guaranteed townies are bad news, sorry.
Mafia 6: Owned by inactivity for sure. I'll save the rest for when the game is 'officially' over even though there is no doubt to the outcome anymore.
Broad lessons from previous games:
-Inactives need to be removed killed burned immolated stuck on a pyre or thrown in the ocean. They have seriously affected 5/6 games but Mafia 3 wasn't all that active either.
-Votelists are overpowered unless there are an obscene number of people. For <50 games it is too good even when there is one per DT. For votelists to be used there needs to be some sort of trick roles (godfather, miller) or the insane dt system. With those they could be ok if limited to 1 per DT or if there are all 3 of those in place 2 per DT is acceptable.
-The DT roleclaiming problem day 1 is stupid and dumbs down the game.
-The first 3 days of kills have impacted the games far too much besides mafia 2. In mafia 3 the mafia was doomed when they didn't snag a very large number of blues. In Mafia 4 and 5 the mafia essentially won the game by very accurate targeting of blues in the first 2-3 days.
-Too many new roles per game is VERY BAD.
Here are some questions we should be attempting to answer:
-What elements make the game most fun and how can we incorporate them best? Role uncertainty? Chaos? Insane DTs? Godfathers? Clues? Pure analysis?
-What size of the game can we aim for. While we will ban the outright inactives there are many points on where we can draw the line (i,e the mafia who post one small thing and fake inactivity, the townies who don't do anything ever and are just sheep, etc). So rather than deciding that we should just decide what size of the game we are aiming for. I,e 20, 30, 40 people. 50 is by far the upper limit and I don't think we will get close banning inactives and getting that many people unless all previous actives return.
-How do we deal with the day 1 dt roleclaim 'you mafia' rubbish? Insane DTs? DTs cannot act until day 2? Millers? Balancing DTs is also an important issue. Are votelists (with extreme measures put on them) ok conceptually (i,e do they reward good things or does it just dumb down the game)? Give them infinite rolechecks? Make cluechecks not suck?
-How do we handle the overimportance of the first few days kills? This goes hand in hand with preventing the town from becoming a moronic slum too early on (i,e lose the key thinkers too early and it's gg). The real problem is that if mafia has just one player who is very good at behavior analysis and can figure out the blues just based on posts/votes, the mafia can essentially win the game on this sole factor. But if you bump up the blue numbers to combat this, then a mafia team who lacks those players gets completely screwed (i,e mafia 3). In the first two games this wasn't an issue nor was it in game 6 but in the other 3 I felt that a lot of the game was decided based upon the mafia's success in rooting out blues early, and frankly, it's pretty dumb. Lower KP on both sides?
-Which overall promotes a more fun game: mayor/pardonner or just an equal level game?
Please don't discuss possible new roles outside of the ones I have outlined. People are always overeager to do this and frankly adding new roles rarely benefits the game and can cause major problems -> see rockstar + nra member. It also confuses people and overwhelms them with new stuff -> see Ace's game where many vets were inactive. If you have (one) role that you think is really good you can pm me but I can easily see the thread getting cluttered up with pointless new roles thrown about.
Roles to Work With
DT: Randomization or only usable at night. No votechecks. More input needed here. This is balanced out by the Capo, making trust not an instant factor both privately and publically.
Medic: Same as always. Necessary role.
Vet: 1 extra life. Necessary role if only to make the mafia uncertain if they hit a vet or a medic blocked it.
The Godfather can choose at the beginning to appear as medic, DT, or townie (or vigilante). No conversions.
The Capo is a DT that acts at night but only has limited uses (2 or 3)
Vigilante: Questionable inclusion. Needs to be very limited in power (1 kill only) as it is by far the strongest town role.
I'll throw a bunch of strong suggestions in here so people can find things easier. Hopefully we can gain a good framework pretty easily.
+ Show Spoiler [Good ideas and Base Framework] +
Caller: Another option could be to randomize mafia hits. Give mafia a list of 10 people, then randomly pick 5 people to die out of that list. The RL rationale could be "x person was visiting a relative so we couldn't hit him, go down the list" or something like that. This way we can delay the rapid death of strong players very quickly.
LTT:An idea that I've been toying with to encourage activity is to dilute every blue role a bit, and then giving everyone a role. These games are fun but they are susceptible to mass roleclaims. To prevent this, make it a closed game like Callers, where the total number of each role is unknown. There could be 3 detectives but 0 veterans. For balance reasons, this game would probably need to be smaller as well.
Incognito: Only let DTs use their powers at night.
RoL: thought I had was make the DTs able to role check day or night, however until Night 2, reds don't show up. Red=green green=green blue=blue until night 2, this can be altered. This encourages people to not use their role checks prematurely, they give less information, while you could find another blue to work with, if you get green it can be mafia or townie. So you have to wait to get the most info out of your role check, then act accordingly. I think that would limit day one role calling in order to establish circles, etc.
LTT: Role Finder - A DT may pm the game master (GM) a role and a positive integer. The GM will respond with a "random" player who has that role. The DT may only choose from townie roles. You may only use this ability X times. If you choose a role that no one has, you will be informed but this ability will still count as being used.
Don't give information to dead players/observers. Have someone start a blog where all the alive players are banned to give the spectators a place to talk and figure things out on their own.