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Official Trailer
HotS FAQ/Facts
Approximately 20 new campaign missions
2-3 new units for each race. Some units have been removed for multiplayer
New upgrades for each race on old units (Banelings can move while burrowed)
The Battlecruiser will gain a speed-boost ability called Redline Reactor
Reaper no longer has a special building attack, but instead has a passive health-regeneration that allows it to recharge hit points quickly when out of combat.
Balance Panel
Terran vs Zerg heavily favors Terran in Korea. NA/EU seems fairly even.
Pro/Community feedback says 1/1/1 too powerful.
Blizzard agrees 1/1/1 was too strong pre 1.4
Blizzard agress EMP was too strong pre 1.4.
Immortal Buff
Still need some time to determine how the ratings have changed post patch.
Looking at general protoss buff
EMP Radius change?
Philosophy for HotS
Fix missed opportunites
Remove units that dont work
Dont add to unit strength. Fix their weaknesses
Weaknesses in WoL vs Fixes in HotS
Terran
Thor should mass counter Muta. Size is a problem. High cost, mass muta can spread/magic box easily.
Late Game Zealot powerful vs Terran
Battle mode for hellion. Slower - Tougher. End game fighter vs archon zealot colossus etc.
Warhound. Smaller faster version of thor. Anti-Mech ground attack.
Make thor the fantasy of super unit.
Shredder. Cheap board control. Dont add to the ball of death.
Zerg
Siege challenges and miss opportunities.
Ultras have size problem. Get stuck in your army and enemy units. End game splash - buff in HotS
Find a way to clean up a lot of marines.
Burrow Charge upgrade
Overseers out
Vipers pull prevent colossus from climbing cliffs to harass.
Swarm host: siege unit, gain map control. very zerg
Protoss
no solid raiding option - especially early/midgame.
Dont focus on killing units, but viable through whole game.
Lack of AOE Anti-air in WoL.
Carrier out. Tempest in. AOE Anti-Air
Oracle added, Protoss caster that copies other race's units and becomes them.
Mothership gone, Oracle in. Air raiding unit, has stasis and can stop minerals from mining.
FULL Details and Descriptions of each unit: Unedited. + Show Spoiler +
Protoss Upon analyzing data from their most recent battles, the protoss have identified a few areas of improvement that would help them maximize effectiveness against their enemies. Based on their findings, the protoss have augmented their arsenal with a second psionic unit, a new way to counter flocks of Mutalisks, and a new form of enemy harassment.
Tempest Description: The tempest is a new capital ship that deals massive area-of-effect damage to air units. It also has a standard ground attack, but its chief role is to help gain air superiority.
Oracle Description: The Oracle is a psionic warship, built from a Stargate, that uses several unique abilities to raid and harass the enemy. The first is Entomb, which can temporarily block mineral fields from being harvested. Another ability, Preordain, grants vision of a targeted enemy building, allowing the protoss to see which units or technologies are being researched. Rounding out its kit is Phase Shift, which phases a target building, preventing it from being attacked, using its abilities, or granting technology. Not only can structures like missile turrets be prevented from attacking, but using this ability on a zerg Spire would block the production of Mutalisks, Corruptors, and air upgrades.
Replicant Description: Replicants have one ability: to transform itself into any non-massive unit. They're expensive, so cloning a Zergling would not be very cost effective, but transforming into a specialized unit like a Raven, Infestor, or Siege Tank could open up interesting strategic options for the protoss.
New Abilities A new ability called Arc Shield has also been added to the nexus -- this ability will temporarily add additional shield and building armor, as well as a weapon very similar to a photon cannon. The weapon does the same amount of damage as a regular photon cannon but only damages light units. This ability will help the protoss buy time to defend in the case of an unexpected drop from an enemy. Another ability, Mass Recall, has also been added to the nexus, which allows protoss players to teleport armies from out in the field back to the nexus. The recalled units are stunned for a few seconds when recalled.
Retired Units As we add units to the multiplayer game, sometimes it’s necessary to remove units or alter others’ abilities to maintain game balance and eliminate redundancy. In the current design of Heart of the Swarm, the protoss are not able to deploy Motherships and Carriers, though these and other units that don’t exist in Heart of the Swarm multiplayer will still be available in Wings of Liberty multiplayer and the solo campaign. Terran The resourceful terrans have also been improving their technology to better survive their battles in the Koprulu sector.
Shredder Description: The Shredder is a new unit built from the Factory that allows the terran player to control the battlefield. In its mobile form, the Shredder has no attack -- but when set to stationary mode, it channels area-effect damage to both the air and ground. If a friendly unit enters the range of the Shredder, the weapon shuts off.
Warhound Description: The Warhound is a small, walking ground mech that wields an effective anti-air weapon with splash damage, much like the Thor from Wings of Liberty. The difference is that the Warhound is smaller and much more nimble, though it gives up some range on its anti-air missiles in exchange for this mobility. The Warhound also wields a small ground attack weapon that does additional damage to mechanical units, making it particularly well suited to taking out enemy Siege Tanks -- though it's not particularly effective against non-mechanical units.
Thor (Modified) Description: While it was always quite effective against ground and air, one of the biggest problems with the Thor has been that it’s too big and bulky to move around well... so the terrans decided to made it even bigger. In Heart of the Swarm multiplayer, terran players will be limited to having only one Thor at a time, but this new behemoth hits even harder with its regular ground weapons and can absorb a tremendous amount of damage. The terrans have also swapped out the Thor's anti-air weapons for a bombardment ability that does a huge amount of damage to a wide swath of ground. The Thor will need time to set up its bombardment cannons, as well as time to repack them after an attack, much like a Siege Tank. Of course, fielding such a powerful weapon requires a hefty investment in technology, so both an Armory and a Fusion Core will be required before a Thor can be built.
New Abilities The Hellion has been upgraded to a transforming unit similar to the Viking. When transformed into its new battle mode, the Hellion will gain in hit points and get a stronger flame attack that covers a short arc in front of it. This makes the Hellion more effective in late-game fights against large clusters of light units such as Zealots. The Ghost’s Cloak ability has also been modified -- it will no longer be a toggled effect. Instead, there will be a one-time energy cost to activate Cloak for a specific time duration. Energy regeneration will continue while cloaked, and Ghosts can re-cloak while nuking without interrupting the call-down. The Battlecruiser will gain a speed-boost ability called Redline Reactor, which is governed by a cooldown. And finally, the Reaper no longer has a special building attack, but instead has a passive health-regeneration that allows it to recharge hit points quickly when out of combat. Zerg The zerg continue to evolve and adapt to changing environments, particularly the dangers they face on the battlefield. New creatures will help the zerg stage more effective sieges and add unique enemy-manipulating abilities to their arsenal.
Viper Description: The Viper is a new flying unit with three unique abilities. Blinding Cloud temporarily reduces the attack range of all ground units inside the cloud to melee range, and prevents energy-based abilities from being used. Abduct allows the Viper to physically pull a unit to the Viper’s location. Finally, the Viper has a one-time ability called Ocular Parasite, which allows it to detach its eye stalk and meld it onto any friendly, non-massive unit, turning that unit into a detector.
Swarm Host Description: The Swarm Host is a slow-moving ground unit that has no standard attack. When burrowed, the Swarm Host spawns a continuous stream of slow-moving melee units called Locusts that can be used to lay siege and pressure entrenched enemy positions.
New Abilities The Corruptor's Corruption ability has been replaced by a new ability called Siphon that allows Corruptors to target buildings and slowly damage them. This damage is converted into resources for the zerg at the same time. Ultralisks have a new Burrow Charge skill that lets them dive underground and instantly surface at a target, allowing them to initiate the fight faster on a crowded battlefield. Finally, the Baneling has evolved tunneling claws similar to the Roach, which allows them to move while burrowed -- this new evolution will mean other races will need to be even more wary about hidden drops and making sure to have detectors with their army. Finally, the Hydralisk has a new upgrade that allows them to move faster while not on creep.
Retired Units The Overseer has been cut; its detection ability has been replaced by the Viper and its Ocular Parasite.
Corruptor Changes The Corruptor's Corruption ability has been replaced by a new ability called Siphon that allows Corruptors to target buildings and slowly damage them. This damage is converted into resources for the zerg at the same time.
Ghost Changes Zealots. The Ghost’s Cloak ability has also been modified -- it will no longer be a toggled effect. Instead, there will be a one-time energy cost to activate Cloak for a specific time duration. Energy regeneration will continue while cloaked, and Ghosts can re-cloak while nuking without interrupting the call-down.
Thor Changes While it was always quite effective against ground and air, one of the biggest problems with the Thor has been that it’s too big and bulky to move around well... so the terrans decided to made it even bigger. In Heart of the Swarm multiplayer, terran players will be limited to having only one Thor at a time, but this new behemoth hits even harder with its regular ground weapons and can absorb a tremendous amount of damage. The terrans have also swapped out the Thor's anti-air weapons for a bombardment ability that does a huge amount of damage to a wide swath of ground. The Thor will need time to set up its bombardment cannons, as well as time to repack them after an attack, much like a Siege Tank. Of course, fielding such a powerful weapon requires a hefty investment in technology, so both an Armory and a Fusion Core will be required before a Thor can be built.
Retired Units As we add units to the multiplayer game, sometimes it’s necessary to remove units or alter others’ abilities to maintain game balance and eliminate redundancy. In the current design of Heart of the Swarm, the protoss are not able to deploy Motherships and Carriers, though these and other units that don’t exist in Heart of the Swarm multiplayer will still be available in Wings of Liberty multiplayer and the solo campaign.
HotS Gameplay Impressions
Kennigit
Had a chance to play one Zvt vs Zatic during the opening ceremony just to test out how some of the new units feel.
Viper - can cast 3 spells, a dark swarmish spell with small AoE called Blinding Cloud. I was using this on Zatic's tank/battle hellions before i realized that this was a bad idea. - Abduct was very cool - i'm bad at the game so didn't use it effectively, but the idea that you can pull a harassing colossus off a cliff or some templars out of an army (the cast range is quite wide) is nice. - Ocular Parasite...I need to investigate more to determine if your opponent knows which unit you have cast it on (you cast it on a friendly unit causing it to detect cloaked units). You get viper at lair tech right now - my initial impression is that it would nullify cloaked banshees but that's just theory crafting. - It feels like the type of unit that you will have a few floating around (with your army/or in base) but not use in mass. Support unit.
Swarm Host - Super cool. Zatic contained my natural with a ton of siege tank/battle hellion. The swarm host burrows and then spawns 3-4 locusts (they look like mini hydras). Combination of Blinding Cloud and ling/swarm host burrow completely wrecked it. By themselves, they aren't too strong as they have a long cool down on spawning locusts (right now its ~24 seconds. the locusts last 15). It has a similar dynamic to broodlords from first glance - amazing in numbers, but you need support units.
Changes/Abilities Overseer has been cut - Viper and ocular parasite are lair tech though so it seems ok (there is an energy cost on OP - lol...op).
Ultralisk has a new spell called Burrow Charge which lets them dive underground and instantly surface at a target - haven't used it yet.
Hydra has a new upgrade which allows it to move faster while off creep - nice.
Baneling has a new upgrade which allows it to move while underground....UMMMMMM WHAT?. I haven't used it yet, but i'm going to go find some bronze leagues to abuse it on. Will ask David Kim how he intends to balance that which is unbalancable later today during the press session.
Zatic and i tested Battle Hellions vs roaches. Its basically the same dynamic as the original hellion except it does a lot more damage to buildings now.
Great coverage! Interesting that the Viper is Lair tech, not Spire...I wonder if Lair is too early for such a useful spellcaster? I realize that the detection spell is necessary to make it similar to overseers, but maybe one of the other two spells should need a cheap research at the spire or lair.
Ocular Parasite sounds exactly like the Queens ability in BW. Im assuming that it would like you know, as in BW, with the unit being highlighted in green (in a group of units) and the words "Parasite Detected"
Kennigit, any word on what the BW players will be doing?
"Baneling has a new upgrade which allows it to move while underground" - I will now switch to zerg, no need for banelingbust, just move into mineral line and press x.
Cool from the looks of the new units, Protoss can actually harass in the PvZ match up:
-- Stopping mineral production. If this is spell-based or an expendable unit (like Infestors), then hell yeah! -- Flying Archon thing. Now Protoss can actually deal with Zerg who go mass Muta and base trade the entire game! (Fuckin noobs) -- Zerg unit that burrows and launches Zergling-type units. Awesome, more potentiality to go air as Protoss. Zerg will love to get these out even though they probably cost decent gas, leaving no room for god damn Hydras to A-click both my air AND gateway army.
On October 22 2011 07:03 tedster wrote: I still just want to see vultures and lurkers more than anything in the world right now
get over bw. they should honestly start banning ppl for mentioning bw stuff in sc2 threads.
There's nothing wrong with wanting some of the coolest units from BW to make the transition to SC2. With your attitude, I think they should remove marines, zerglings, hydras, zealots, dark templar, and many more units from SC2 because they're originally from BW. Grow up.
The Thor change is mind blowing. They were useful enough against Mutalisks and now they're like a ground mothership. They might become useless, who knows. The Goliath will have to do instead now. :p
Idk a lot of all of this seems fishy. Though pro leveling gaming might be more fun to watch.
Hmm, I don't like the sound of the changes to the Thor. It sounds like it's essentially a hero unit now, which has no place in Starcraft. And its air splash was actually one of the key ingredients in the ZvT match-up. Really bad decision to mess with that imo.
While I am upset about the thor changes as well, I think that tanks and warhounds will fill the role nicely. I also think warhounds will actually make mech vs toss viable. It'll be interesting.
Thor change is just hilarious. I as a protoss player going to laugh at Terrans. Now they will know how it feels to have 1 expensive and useless unit in your army. Happy that mothership is gone. Very sad for Carriers but maybe they just had to go. Also so far least changes to Protoss?
On October 22 2011 06:36 Kennigit wrote: Retired Units As we add units to the multiplayer game, sometimes it’s necessary to remove units or alter others’ abilities to maintain game balance and eliminate redundancy. In the current design of Heart of the Swarm, the protoss are not able to deploy Motherships and Carriers, though these and other units that don’t exist in Heart of the Swarm multiplayer will still be available in Wings of Liberty multiplayer and the solo campaign.
I seem to recall, that they were planning to reserve the new single-player-campaigns for people who purchased the respective expansions, while keeping the multiplayer-part of the SC2-series consistent (unit-wise).
Did they change that policy at some point, or is there another explanation for the term "Wings of Liberty multiplayer"?
Zerg units definitly look awesome! Love the look and abilities of the Viper. But what exactly does "needs lair tech" mean? Do I simply need a lair for it to be build from larvae or from the hatch itself (like a queen) or do I need a spire (which I can build once I reach lair tech)?
Protoss units are quite interesting. I really like the idea of the Oracle as well as the Replicant. Could be some awesome strategies involving these two. The tempest seems good for a lategame unit even though I am sad to see the Carrier go. I don't understand why they got rid of the mothership though. Sure they could have changed the abilites and still keep it. Why take the mothership away but introduce the hero Thor? <-- don't like that move. I think each race should have one hero unit. Even if it is mostly for fun matches.
I myself play mostly Terrain and am pretty dissapointed with the Terrain changes so far. My favorte units are the Raven and the Ghost and so far Raven hasn't received much love (a slightly faster Seeker Missile - ok) and the Ghost's cloak change seems... I don't know. Would have to playtest that one. Could be good could be bad. The new units however seem rather aweful - at least designwise. God the new Warhound looks so ugly... Ugh! The Battlehellion... well are we playing transformers now? And the Shredder... to turtle I'd rather use a Siege Tank, I guess. Don't know maybe it can be useful but another stationary defense... Terran already has enough of this with Bunkers and Siege Tanks...
Aww shizzle, protoss not deploying carriers or motherships that's crazy. All the bronze players can not win now. jkjk. Tempest & Oracle look cool, the Oracle especially for harrasing but the health of the Oracle is important to know.
so... protoss just pimped their crib it seems... from a probe making chronoboosting building... to a BADASS fortress that can do right about everything. :D
P/Z changes seem really nice. T not so much, but probably because of the whole 'T is already complete' aspect. Don't know why they think another 1/game unit is a good idea. Mothership didn't work, and new Thor more than likely won't either.
On October 22 2011 07:26 aklambda wrote: Zerg units definitly look awesome! Love the look and abilities of the Viper. But what exactly does "needs lair tech" mean? Do I simply need a lair for it to be build from larvae or from the hatch itself (like a queen) or do I need a spire (which I can build once I reach lair tech)?
Protoss units are quite interesting. I really like the idea of the Oracle as well as the Replicant. Could be some awesome strategies involving these two. The tempest seems good for a lategame unit even though I am sad to see the Carrier go. I don't understand why they got rid of the mothership though. Sure they could have changed the abilites and still keep it. Why take the mothership away but introduce the hero Thor? <-- don't like that move. I think each race should have one hero unit. Even if it is mostly for fun matches.
I myself play mostly Terrain and am pretty dissapointed with the Terrain changes so far. My favorte units are the Raven and the Ghost and so far Raven hasn't received much love (a slightly faster Seeker Missile - ok) and the Ghost's cloak change seems... I don't know. Would have to playtest that one. Could be good could be bad. The new units however seem rather aweful - at least designwise. God the new Warhound looks so ugly... Ugh! The Battlehellion... well are we playing transformers now? And to turtle I'd rather use a Siege Tank, I guess. Don't know maybe it can be useful but another stationary defense... Terran already has enough of this with Bunkers and Siege Tanks...
Actually I think I read that it's tied to the infestation pit (also lair tech)
they think late game helions are strong enough versus zealots? lol
the reason helions arent used vs protoss is because the overall mech strat doesnt work, meaning you lack the factory count to react to a heavier zealot count. removing the thor will only weaken the already bad mech vs p style making helions even less likely to be built. if anything they will just be used more vs z
Definitely very interesting changes, we'll have to see what will be implemented in the final game. The addition of extra spellcasting units will most certainly make this game more complex than it already is, and should at least make watching pro games all the more exciting to watch.
On October 22 2011 07:36 NeThZOR wrote: Definitely very interesting changes, we'll have to see what will be implemented in the final game. The addition of extra spellcasting units will most certainly make this game more complex than it already is, and should at least make watching pro games all the more exciting to watch.
I agree! So I am kind of sad that Terran didn't get another spellcaster.
On October 22 2011 07:35 turdburgler wrote: they think late game helions are strong enough versus zealots? lol
the reason helions arent used vs protoss is because the overall mech strat doesnt work, meaning you lack the factory count to react to a heavier zealot count. removing the thor will only weaken the already bad mech vs p style making helions even less likely to be built. if anything they will just be used more vs z
no no you got it wrong. what they are saying is that the new helions (more hp and dmg in a cone in front instead of a line) are there to be able to deal whit the zealots lategame and the new mech anti air seems really nice too since its damage bonus to mech will help a lot at killing inmortals and colossi :D
The Zerg changes look great. Protoss changes seem pretty meh right now - it's a shame they didn't get something that could allow them to "zone" the map with positional entrenchments.
On October 22 2011 07:48 blacklist_member wrote: How is that pulling things back ability even fair when the protoss strength lies in the few essential splash damage units? :O
On October 22 2011 07:48 blacklist_member wrote: How is that pulling things back ability even fair when the protoss strength lies in the few essential splash damage units? :O
Feedback the viper...
Or: 1) Make a Replicant 2) Turn it into a drone 3) Build a Hatchery 4) Tech up to Lair 5) Build your own Vipers 6) PULL YOUR SHIT BACK
As a protoss....I'm scared. Also, AIR PLAY!!! As if toss needed more of a reason to ffe into stargate play. I hope they keep the flavour of each non-mirror match-up though. Tvz with fast exciting battles followed by the slow push of terran, tvp with the constant raiding of terran against the the expensive might of toss and pvz with...infestors and collosi. Okay, that last one can change XD
How they are going to balance banelings being able to move underground is beyond me. Love the Battle Hellion idea and the BC speed upgrade. Looks like Mech is going to be MUCH more viable in TvZ
I seriously hope they remove some terran units T.T, it's already the race which has by far the most options (both in viable styles and also just in pure number of units/upgrades) and now units from every race except terran
On the other hand, zerg is going to be awesome now, how the hell are they going to not let moving burrowed banelings imba in every game under diamond :D
I just feel bad for protoss finally losing the carrier for me that was THE iconic protoss unit.
It'll be interesting to see the protoss changes for HOTS. I'm shocked that they are keeping the collusus in because i thought they said they didn't like how it functioned but I won't complain if they keep it (all the races i guess have effective ways to counter it and it takes a huge investment to get the tech up). Hard to speculate about the new units without seeing the units in action but I've got to say i'm a fan of the what they're talking about. It's so difficult for protoss to put pressure in the early/mid game without completely going all in or risking huge counter attacks vs. zerg. Basically stargate, dt, and drop ships are the only options but if you don't do any damage you fall WAY behind. I'll be interested to see how the new harass units work. All in all i think blizard is going to make good changes they just are being cautious about it not to react too quickly.
On October 22 2011 07:48 blacklist_member wrote: How is that pulling things back ability even fair when the protoss strength lies in the few essential splash damage units? :O
Feedback the viper...
Or: 1) Make a Replicant 2) Turn it into a drone 3) Build a Hatchery 4) Tech up to Lair 5) Build your own Vipers 6) PULL YOUR SHIT BACK
Why do that when your replicant can just replicate the viper itself, hmmm?
Description: The Swarm Host is a slow-moving ground unit that has no standard attack. When burrowed, the Swarm Host spawns a continuous stream of slow-moving melee units called Locusts that can be used to lay siege and pressure entrenched enemy positions.
So do these "Locusts" attack while burrowed? How much HP do they have? It sounds like they're completely useless in low #'s, as the locusts will just melt to any T/P ball before doing any damage, and then it takes 24 seconds to fire again. Is it really no different from a brood lord that can fire while burrowed? Seems pretty uninteresting
On October 22 2011 07:48 blacklist_member wrote: How is that pulling things back ability even fair when the protoss strength lies in the few essential splash damage units? :O
Feedback the viper...
Or: 1) Make a Replicant 2) Turn it into a drone 3) Build a Hatchery 4) Tech up to Lair 5) Build your own Vipers 6) PULL YOUR SHIT BACK
Why do that when your replicant can just replicate the viper itself, hmmm?
Because chances are good that snagging a drone will be much easier than grabbing a unit that is likely to be mixed into an army (keeping in mind that we don't know exactly how long the range on the "replicate" spell is)
Was really hoping when talked about retiring/replacing units it would end up being something like the marauder, or the collosus/corrupter to a lesser degree.
On October 22 2011 08:10 wangstra wrote: LoL. This is officially it for me. Any childhood memories of enjoying Blizzard games is gone; they've thoroughly abused my nostalgia.
Seriously a new expansion that breaks up the community?
On October 22 2011 07:48 blacklist_member wrote: How is that pulling things back ability even fair when the protoss strength lies in the few essential splash damage units? :O
Feedback the viper...
Or: 1) Make a Replicant 2) Turn it into a drone 3) Build a Hatchery 4) Tech up to Lair 5) Build your own Vipers 6) PULL YOUR SHIT BACK
Why do that when your replicant can just replicate the viper itself, hmmm?
Because chances are good that snagging a drone will be much easier than grabbing a unit that is likely to be mixed into an army (keeping in mind that we don't know exactly how long the range on the "replicate" spell is)
What I understand is that if you can see it you can replicate it
it feels like Blizzard doesn't know what they want to do with the reaper. they want to keep him around but they can't find a way to fit him into the game.
very sad about the carrier... especially after watch Jangbi at OSL Mothership was a waste, the Carrier could have been saved... oh well, have to see how these pan out... hopefully the beta solves some of the problems...
I want pictures of Jaedong and Flash ;( Have anyone seen them at the event or know what they're supposed to do at the event? Any info on a possible BW showmatch ?
On October 22 2011 08:29 mnck wrote: I want pictures of Jaedong and Flash ;( Have anyone seen them at the event or know what they're supposed to do at the event? Any info on a possible BW showmatch ?
I didn't know Flash was coming but yea we need more Dong lol.
On October 22 2011 07:48 blacklist_member wrote: How is that pulling things back ability even fair when the protoss strength lies in the few essential splash damage units? :O
Feedback the viper...
Or: 1) Make a Replicant 2) Turn it into a drone 3) Build a Hatchery 4) Tech up to Lair 5) Build your own Vipers 6) PULL YOUR SHIT BACK
Why do that when your replicant can just replicate the viper itself, hmmm?
Because chances are good that snagging a drone will be much easier than grabbing a unit that is likely to be mixed into an army (keeping in mind that we don't know exactly how long the range on the "replicate" spell is)
What I understand is that if you can see it you can replicate it
Hmm, so if an observer sees a unit in an enemy base the Replicant back home can turn into it?
On October 22 2011 08:39 Cyanocyst wrote: Um, Just wondering whats the Range on those Swarm Hosts? i hope its at least 6.
In the panel they didn't appear to have a range, you actually set a rally point for the spawned locusts, or that was at least the wording Browder used, if you think he knows his stuff well enough to be correct. This would create an interesting concept of range for the swarm host, how long is the life span, especially considering burrow and unburrow? Can you spawn 2, uproot and move under coverage of those spawns, move closer and reburrow in time to spawn 2 more? Or does the spawn counter freeze when uprooted? There are so many questions only time with the game can answer =/ Anyone there want to help us out?
On October 22 2011 08:41 TehTemplar wrote: So, would Tank/Battle Hellion/Hero Thor be the new mech? And is it me, or does protoss have a lot more harrassment now?
No love for Warhound? It looks like the most exciting unit to me. It'll be nice to have a solid unit that can hold its own against ground and air that ISN'T the marine.
The pulling of units thing...the viper looks silly. No really when I saw it pull the colossus like that my head exploded from the silliness. Looks like it's straight out of a cartoon.
On October 22 2011 08:22 Bowzer wrote: I honestly believe the changes that they have presented will make the game much more skill and micro oriented.
What do you guys think?
Regardless of the other changes, blink ultras are quite possible the dumbest thing since destructible rocks, except for collapsible rocks of course...
Blink ultras sound fucking amazing, dunno what you're smoking. Just imagine like 5-6 ultras suddenly popping out behind your army, sounds scary as hell.
Seens like blizzard did not notice that protoss LACKS DETECTION...badly....and protoss WILL need MORE detection to deal with this kinda OP baneling...Man, i'm the only one that sees that when toss is building his ONLY detection unit he is not making units that makes possible to win the fight???
But man, the possiilities now are amazing...seens like terran is not the ONLY race with a lot of openings. Really seeing foward,
Hope i'm included in BETA lol
really wanna help this expansion to be as amazing as it can be !
On October 22 2011 08:52 The_DarkAngelz wrote: Seens like blizzard did not notice that protoss LACKS DETECTION...badly....and protoss WILL need MORE detection to deal with this kinda OP baneling...Man, i'm the only one that sees that when toss is building his ONLY detection unit he is not making units that makes possible to win the fight???
But man, the possiilities now are amazing...seens like terran is not the ONLY race with a lot of openings. Really seeing foward,
Hope i'm included in BETA lol
really wanna help this expansion to be as amazing as it can be !
The baneling burrow move upgrade will be "at the hive" according to Browder, same thing with hydralisk speed.
So if marauders are gone, what do Terrans use vs. Protoss? I can't see the battle mode for Hellion and warhounds faring great against a Protoss Death Ball.
On October 22 2011 08:52 The_DarkAngelz wrote: Seens like blizzard did not notice that protoss LACKS DETECTION...badly....and protoss WILL need MORE detection to deal with this kinda OP baneling...Man, i'm the only one that sees that when toss is building his ONLY detection unit he is not making units that makes possible to win the fight???
But man, the possiilities now are amazing...seens like terran is not the ONLY race with a lot of openings. Really seeing foward,
Hope i'm included in BETA lol
really wanna help this expansion to be as amazing as it can be !
The baneling burrow move upgrade will be "at the hive" according to Browder, same thing with hydralisk speed.
It'll still being OP....can u realize zerg focusing in kill Observes (with is hard to get some) AND using borrowed banelings??? omg...i can't even think of that !
I really like most of these changes. I feel like the burrowed banelings moving around is going to be waaayyy OP. Or it might just make people start to play with more observers/ravens. We'll see. Well start to see a lot more people in lower leagues doing better as zerg though.
On October 22 2011 08:55 gorgoino18 wrote: So if marauders are gone, what do Terrans use vs. Protoss? I can't see the battle mode for Hellion and warhounds faring great against a Protoss Death Ball.
Terran will have to improvise....as we protoss had and zerg, all this whole time that terran was kinda imba (various openings, all-ins that doesn't look like all in because mules, full detection and instant scoult and 1-1-1)
we (toss and zerg) had to deal with all that day by day, trying to win by micro, by new openings, by using every unit in this game....same goes to Zerg....
Now time to Terran do the same...Improve, play and realize new strat !
On October 22 2011 08:55 gorgoino18 wrote: So if marauders are gone, what do Terrans use vs. Protoss? I can't see the battle mode for Hellion and warhounds faring great against a Protoss Death Ball.
Wait, marauders are gone? I didn't see that in the OP, is this a recent revelation?
On October 22 2011 08:52 The_DarkAngelz wrote: Seens like blizzard did not notice that protoss LACKS DETECTION...badly....and protoss WILL need MORE detection to deal with this kinda OP baneling...Man, i'm the only one that sees that when toss is building his ONLY detection unit he is not making units that makes possible to win the fight???
But man, the possiilities now are amazing...seens like terran is not the ONLY race with a lot of openings. Really seeing foward,
Hope i'm included in BETA lol
really wanna help this expansion to be as amazing as it can be !
The baneling burrow move upgrade will be "at the hive" according to Browder, same thing with hydralisk speed.
The oracle really seems like it ought to be a detector, and maybe that'll be patched in
On October 22 2011 08:52 The_DarkAngelz wrote: Seens like blizzard did not notice that protoss LACKS DETECTION...badly....and protoss WILL need MORE detection to deal with this kinda OP baneling...Man, i'm the only one that sees that when toss is building his ONLY detection unit he is not making units that makes possible to win the fight???
But man, the possiilities now are amazing...seens like terran is not the ONLY race with a lot of openings. Really seeing foward,
Hope i'm included in BETA lol
really wanna help this expansion to be as amazing as it can be !
The baneling burrow move upgrade will be "at the hive" according to Browder, same thing with hydralisk speed.
It'll still being OP....can u realize zerg focusing in kill Observes (with is hard to get some) AND using borrowed banelings??? omg...i can't even think of that !
Yep it's certainly OP. HotS is out and professionals have played it for quite awhile. In addition, Blizzard has compiled numerous statistics showing that it's without a counter. The observer has been removed because no protoss want to build it because they feel detection is beneath them.
On October 22 2011 08:22 Bowzer wrote: I honestly believe the changes that they have presented will make the game much more skill and micro oriented.
What do you guys think?
Disagree completely i think it looks like it wont change much at all. The new units look particularly bland and unlike BW they are simply removing units they feel dont serve a purpose, which is too bad. Should have designed new units to augment existing design. I guess when you design a game as poorly as wings of liberty you have no choice though.
I think the viper is kind of a dumb name that doesnt really fit the description of a zerg. Reminds me more of a terran unit (vulture, raven etc). Wouldnt mind a name change.
On October 22 2011 08:52 The_DarkAngelz wrote: Seens like blizzard did not notice that protoss LACKS DETECTION...badly....and protoss WILL need MORE detection to deal with this kinda OP baneling...Man, i'm the only one that sees that when toss is building his ONLY detection unit he is not making units that makes possible to win the fight???
But man, the possiilities now are amazing...seens like terran is not the ONLY race with a lot of openings. Really seeing foward,
Hope i'm included in BETA lol
really wanna help this expansion to be as amazing as it can be !
The baneling burrow move upgrade will be "at the hive" according to Browder, same thing with hydralisk speed.
It'll still being OP....can u realize zerg focusing in kill Observes (with is hard to get some) AND using borrowed banelings??? omg...i can't even think of that !
Yep it's certainly OP. HotS is out and professionals have played it for quite awhile. In addition, Blizzard has compiled numerous statistics showing that it's without a counter. The observer has been removed because no protoss want to build it because they feel detection is beneath them.
What? Observer has been removed??? wtf? what detects now?
On October 22 2011 08:52 The_DarkAngelz wrote: Seens like blizzard did not notice that protoss LACKS DETECTION...badly....and protoss WILL need MORE detection to deal with this kinda OP baneling...Man, i'm the only one that sees that when toss is building his ONLY detection unit he is not making units that makes possible to win the fight???
But man, the possiilities now are amazing...seens like terran is not the ONLY race with a lot of openings. Really seeing foward,
Hope i'm included in BETA lol
really wanna help this expansion to be as amazing as it can be !
The baneling burrow move upgrade will be "at the hive" according to Browder, same thing with hydralisk speed.
It'll still being OP....can u realize zerg focusing in kill Observes (with is hard to get some) AND using borrowed banelings??? omg...i can't even think of that !
Yep it's certainly OP. HotS is out and professionals have played it for quite awhile. In addition, Blizzard has compiled numerous statistics showing that it's without a counter. The observer has been removed because no protoss want to build it because they feel detection is beneath them.
What? Observer has been removed??? wtf? what detects now?
On October 22 2011 08:52 The_DarkAngelz wrote: Seens like blizzard did not notice that protoss LACKS DETECTION...badly....and protoss WILL need MORE detection to deal with this kinda OP baneling...Man, i'm the only one that sees that when toss is building his ONLY detection unit he is not making units that makes possible to win the fight???
But man, the possiilities now are amazing...seens like terran is not the ONLY race with a lot of openings. Really seeing foward,
Hope i'm included in BETA lol
really wanna help this expansion to be as amazing as it can be !
The baneling burrow move upgrade will be "at the hive" according to Browder, same thing with hydralisk speed.
It'll still being OP....can u realize zerg focusing in kill Observes (with is hard to get some) AND using borrowed banelings??? omg...i can't even think of that !
Yep it's certainly OP. HotS is out and professionals have played it for quite awhile. In addition, Blizzard has compiled numerous statistics showing that it's without a counter. The observer has been removed because no protoss want to build it because they feel detection is beneath them.
What? Observer has been removed??? wtf? what detects now?
On October 22 2011 08:52 The_DarkAngelz wrote: Seens like blizzard did not notice that protoss LACKS DETECTION...badly....and protoss WILL need MORE detection to deal with this kinda OP baneling...Man, i'm the only one that sees that when toss is building his ONLY detection unit he is not making units that makes possible to win the fight???
But man, the possiilities now are amazing...seens like terran is not the ONLY race with a lot of openings. Really seeing foward,
Hope i'm included in BETA lol
really wanna help this expansion to be as amazing as it can be !
The baneling burrow move upgrade will be "at the hive" according to Browder, same thing with hydralisk speed.
It'll still being OP....can u realize zerg focusing in kill Observes (with is hard to get some) AND using borrowed banelings??? omg...i can't even think of that !
I don't feel like this is a problem. Protoss puts 3+ cannons at every expo past the nat anyways. Also I don't feel like observers inside the protoss army are easily sniped by zerg. Scouting observers are, but that's not the problem.
On October 22 2011 08:52 The_DarkAngelz wrote: Seens like blizzard did not notice that protoss LACKS DETECTION...badly....and protoss WILL need MORE detection to deal with this kinda OP baneling...Man, i'm the only one that sees that when toss is building his ONLY detection unit he is not making units that makes possible to win the fight???
But man, the possiilities now are amazing...seens like terran is not the ONLY race with a lot of openings. Really seeing foward,
Hope i'm included in BETA lol
really wanna help this expansion to be as amazing as it can be !
The baneling burrow move upgrade will be "at the hive" according to Browder, same thing with hydralisk speed.
It'll still being OP....can u realize zerg focusing in kill Observes (with is hard to get some) AND using borrowed banelings??? omg...i can't even think of that !
Yep it's certainly OP. HotS is out and professionals have played it for quite awhile. In addition, Blizzard has compiled numerous statistics showing that it's without a counter. The observer has been removed because no protoss want to build it because they feel detection is beneath them.
What? Observer has been removed??? wtf? what detects now?
I think you missed the sarcasm. I think the point is that someone is complaining about balance on the eve of the introduction of new ideas to the game.
I have to agree, its pretty pathetic. It proves that people will complain about anything, regardless.
On the other hand, I think these changes are quite exciting and can't wait to see more.
I am also interested as to how this affects the pro gamers - I mean, these are not simple balance changes (nerfing damage etc). These will affect the game on the whole and how each race and matchup is played. It will be like learning a new game. Again!
If you have a tournament where only certain games are streamed can you please keep the brackets updated regularly. I honestly don't know who's where anymore in the brackets.
On October 22 2011 09:22 Avan wrote: I'm not sure, but the Oracle appears to be only unit one can actually use O_o'
Are you kidding? Did you watch any of the panel about it? Did you read any of the topic about it? Did you do ANY RESEARCH AT ALL before posting? The new units all seem very viable and people are already complaining. Coming out of the woodwork just to make ridiculous posts about things that nobody (including progamers), but the developers know ANYTHING about.
The stream is not working for me. After i log into the battle.net website, it says subscription service not available and I get no free stream. Anyone else getting this? It just happened recently.
"A new ability called Arc Shield has also been added to the nexus -- this ability will temporarily add additional shield and building armor, as well as a weapon very similar to a photon cannon. The weapon does the same amount of damage as a regular photon cannon but only damages light units. This ability will help the protoss buy time to defend in the case of an unexpected drop from an enemy. "
Great, this will help me defend Mar....auder drops?
is it just me or do the units from the pictures look a little brighter? It seems like the colors are kinda like that one mod, just dumbed down a bit. The picture with the orange roaches and blue stalkers looks especially bright.
On October 22 2011 08:52 The_DarkAngelz wrote: Seens like blizzard did not notice that protoss LACKS DETECTION...badly....and protoss WILL need MORE detection to deal with this kinda OP baneling...Man, i'm the only one that sees that when toss is building his ONLY detection unit he is not making units that makes possible to win the fight???
But man, the possiilities now are amazing...seens like terran is not the ONLY race with a lot of openings. Really seeing foward,
Hope i'm included in BETA lol
really wanna help this expansion to be as amazing as it can be !
The baneling burrow move upgrade will be "at the hive" according to Browder, same thing with hydralisk speed.
It'll still being OP....can u realize zerg focusing in kill Observes (with is hard to get some) AND using borrowed banelings??? omg...i can't even think of that !
standard zvp from bw? protecting your obs should be important but it isnt in wol
Yes, this is exactly what I wanted. Every race gets new units, upgrades and abilities which, on their own if added to WoL, would look OP. But combined, every race is OP. Fantastic! =D
I prefer the approach of buffing over nerfing to achieve balance. Always keeps things interesting.
On October 22 2011 09:33 Cyro wrote: "A new ability called Arc Shield has also been added to the nexus -- this ability will temporarily add additional shield and building armor, as well as a weapon very similar to a photon cannon. The weapon does the same amount of damage as a regular photon cannon but only damages light units. This ability will help the protoss buy time to defend in the case of an unexpected drop from an enemy. "
Great, this will help me defend Mar....auder drops?
I think that this is just for early game cheeses. With good building placement, lowground cannon rushes are just about gone, and proxy gates too. Early pools and marine scv all-ins would be easier too. I think the biggest thing though is that an early pool on non-full walloff FFE map, if you save chrono and pull probes to block, you could probably delay long enough for a lowground cannon to finish, put up the nexus, and proceed to win off of ridiculously better econ.
On October 22 2011 09:33 Cyro wrote: "A new ability called Arc Shield has also been added to the nexus -- this ability will temporarily add additional shield and building armor, as well as a weapon very similar to a photon cannon. The weapon does the same amount of damage as a regular photon cannon but only damages light units. This ability will help the protoss buy time to defend in the case of an unexpected drop from an enemy. "
Great, this will help me defend Mar....auder drops?
I think that this is just for early game cheeses. With good building placement, lowground cannon rushes are just about gone, and proxy gates too. Early pools and marine scv all-ins would be easier too. I think the biggest thing though is that an early pool on non-full walloff FFE map, if you save chrono and pull probes to block, you could probably delay long enough for a lowground cannon to finish, put up the nexus, and proceed to win off of ridiculously better econ.
on the opposite foot, cannon rushes with pylons that attack.....
Not sure if this has been mentioned, but are the team colors clearer? Some of those zerg units look VERY green/orange/whatever in the screenshots. If so, this is a great change! Can't wait to actually be able to tell what's going on in a mirror matchup.
On October 22 2011 09:33 Cyro wrote: "A new ability called Arc Shield has also been added to the nexus -- this ability will temporarily add additional shield and building armor, as well as a weapon very similar to a photon cannon. The weapon does the same amount of damage as a regular photon cannon but only damages light units. This ability will help the protoss buy time to defend in the case of an unexpected drop from an enemy. "
Great, this will help me defend Mar....auder drops?
I think that this is just for early game cheeses. With good building placement, lowground cannon rushes are just about gone, and proxy gates too. Early pools and marine scv all-ins would be easier too. I think the biggest thing though is that an early pool on non-full walloff FFE map, if you save chrono and pull probes to block, you could probably delay long enough for a lowground cannon to finish, put up the nexus, and proceed to win off of ridiculously better econ.
on the opposite foot, cannon rushes with pylons that attack.....
That would be stupidly broken. Like, you couldn't kill a pylon blocking your hatchery without roaches. That is, Zerg can't expand before roaches in ZvP. I don't know how Z could win a ZvP after opening roaches before hatch against an FFE.
On October 22 2011 09:33 Cyro wrote: "A new ability called Arc Shield has also been added to the nexus -- this ability will temporarily add additional shield and building armor, as well as a weapon very similar to a photon cannon. The weapon does the same amount of damage as a regular photon cannon but only damages light units. This ability will help the protoss buy time to defend in the case of an unexpected drop from an enemy. "
Great, this will help me defend Mar....auder drops?
I think that this is just for early game cheeses. With good building placement, lowground cannon rushes are just about gone, and proxy gates too. Early pools and marine scv all-ins would be easier too. I think the biggest thing though is that an early pool on non-full walloff FFE map, if you save chrono and pull probes to block, you could probably delay long enough for a lowground cannon to finish, put up the nexus, and proceed to win off of ridiculously better econ.
on the opposite foot, cannon rushes with pylons that attack.....
That would be stupidly broken. Like, you couldn't kill a pylon blocking your hatchery without roaches. That is, Zerg can't expand before roaches in ZvP. I don't know how Z could win a ZvP after opening roaches before hatch against an FFE.
Well the nexus is the building that attacks. Not the pylons... Dunno why there's talk about pylons attacking?
Edit: I'm honestly not too excited for the new protoss stuff. My picture of the current state of the game on pro level (now I'm not an expert ofcourse) is that protoss is somewhat weaker than especially terran, considering the easy cheeses and the ghost which is better than the templar in every possible way. There's really nothing fixing, or helping this? My new option is to tech to a unit that can stop the terran from mining with his lone SCV and MULE while he's raping my ramp with a 1/1/1? =/
The new protoss air unit basically seems to be a slighty more competent PvZ anti mutalisk defense unit.. Meh. Kind of limited use at first glance.
Sorry for the whining, just getting a little worried for probably no reason ^_^
i like all of the changes except the nexus making temporarily cannons. Cannon rushes utilizing pylon-cannons will be overpowered as all hell. Before anyone says I can't make that prediction yet - let me make this prediction. A patch will be released shortly after launch that prevents pylons from recieving this upgrade.
End of story. Go and try to argue with me, i'll just reply to your post after I'm correct.
On October 22 2011 09:43 JerKy wrote: What does it mean protoss has no early/mid raiding options?
I think they just mean that they have to commit a lot to do an early mid game pressure, if you chose to do an early game pressure as protoss and you can't do any damage you usually fall WAY behind in tech or economy. That's just my observation. I'll be interesting though because protoss has so many timing pushes they can do now whether this will give protoss TOO many pressure options. I don't think that the number of options were the problem it was just that protoss were having a hard time doing light pressure without going all in or falling behind.
On October 22 2011 09:33 Cyro wrote: "A new ability called Arc Shield has also been added to the nexus -- this ability will temporarily add additional shield and building armor, as well as a weapon very similar to a photon cannon. The weapon does the same amount of damage as a regular photon cannon but only damages light units. This ability will help the protoss buy time to defend in the case of an unexpected drop from an enemy. "
Great, this will help me defend Mar....auder drops?
I think that this is just for early game cheeses. With good building placement, lowground cannon rushes are just about gone, and proxy gates too. Early pools and marine scv all-ins would be easier too. I think the biggest thing though is that an early pool on non-full walloff FFE map, if you save chrono and pull probes to block, you could probably delay long enough for a lowground cannon to finish, put up the nexus, and proceed to win off of ridiculously better econ.
on the opposite foot, cannon rushes with pylons that attack.....
The ability is only on nexus though right? So.. Nexus rush? Much better than you regular cannon rush then.
On October 22 2011 09:33 Cyro wrote: "A new ability called Arc Shield has also been added to the nexus -- this ability will temporarily add additional shield and building armor, as well as a weapon very similar to a photon cannon. The weapon does the same amount of damage as a regular photon cannon but only damages light units. This ability will help the protoss buy time to defend in the case of an unexpected drop from an enemy. "
Great, this will help me defend Mar....auder drops?
I think that this is just for early game cheeses. With good building placement, lowground cannon rushes are just about gone, and proxy gates too. Early pools and marine scv all-ins would be easier too. I think the biggest thing though is that an early pool on non-full walloff FFE map, if you save chrono and pull probes to block, you could probably delay long enough for a lowground cannon to finish, put up the nexus, and proceed to win off of ridiculously better econ.
on the opposite foot, cannon rushes with pylons that attack.....
The ability is only on nexus though right? So.. Nexus rush? Much better than you regular cannon rush then.
Wow thank you this answered so many questions! Very appreciated! I think the Thor idea is pretty cool I hope it doesn't become like the mothership were we rarely saw them. I feel like in late game it should be seen. It will be really interesting to see how this game plays out.
On October 22 2011 09:06 Angelbelow wrote: I think the viper is kind of a dumb name that doesnt really fit the description of a zerg. Reminds me more of a terran unit (vulture, raven etc). Wouldnt mind a name change.
I agree, though i feel like the names of units are probably the most up in the air things there are. In the alpha of Sc2 things had completely different names.
Also, does anyone know if the creatures spawned from the spawn host are on a life timer like broodlings, or if they are permanent? If they are permanent it seems like they'd be OP, you could just burrow at your base and mass up a swarm of them (they're each better than a zergling).
On October 22 2011 10:21 SilverforceX wrote: So to balance protoss, they added a unit which allows it to change becoming terran units... kinda implies terran units are better, no?
Well, it can become zerg units and protoss units too...
I just realized that Protoss players wanting the Archon to become massive units has a new downside, because you can't use Replicants to make a whole bunch of cheaper archons (cheaper on gas, anyway, which is the limiting factor).
I dont like Thor change. Thor is my favorite unit in the game. While its true that mass magic box muta kill thors, 6-7 thors can beat any amount of muta.
Hellion can now transform, so firebat is back. Also warhound is added, so we have goliath back. Zerg changes feel the same. I already have SC1, and I can play it anytime, do you dig that Blizzard?
On October 22 2011 10:39 McPricE wrote: Does anyone think that this reaper regen will make them actual real units?? I do not personally but I hope I'm proved wrong.
What I think is that reaper is going to be much better in early game harassing vs zerg... Queens alone won't be good enough defence against them, since you can come hit a drone, move back for a few seconds to regen and come finish the drone off.
well i'll be replicating ghosts and vipers.... and it would be nice to call down mules after getting an scv for the protoss orbital command. the only issue i have is the all the protoss units tend to be situational/support whereas the terran ones could be a more massed unit in a normal army comp. zerg tends to be a mix of the 2.
oh and will it mean the transformer hellions will be able to drop on mineral lines and not be damaged by the cannon cos they become armoured?
i love how they remove the overseer saying its essentially useless and then give it to protoss, admittedly a pimped out version of it, but i can never see people building it for more than a gimmick.
EDIT, realised i was entirely negative so im putting some positives in, i think will make FFE incredibly powerful by the time you get the first gate up. also the tempest will be great as it will shut down muta harrass and make it much harder to take out colossi with corrupters and vikings. the ability to SEE EXACTLY what a player is building and how far along is pretty damn fine too, and mass recall to nexus should be great a lá kiwikaki vs stephano
On October 22 2011 10:21 SilverforceX wrote: So to balance protoss, they added a unit which allows it to change becoming terran units... kinda implies terran units are better, no?
Well, it can become zerg units and protoss units too...
Oh yeah and burrowed tunneling banelings. Really??? Personally I don't even think making it a Hive upgrade is really enough to balance out the pure OP, would be surprised if it gets through to final HotS. Maybe if it had like a super slow movement speed? They better make Ravens cheaper...and Toss is even worse off
Abduct worries me. If vipers are there to offer one-time detection, they have to be fairly affordable; on the other hand, what's keeping Zerg from massing vipers and abducting all your key units?
On October 22 2011 10:47 McPricE wrote: Oh yeah and burrowed tunneling banelings. Really??? Personally I don't even think making it a Hive upgrade is really enough to balance out the pure OP, would be surprised if it gets through to final HotS. Maybe if it had like a super slow movement speed? They better make Ravens cheaper...and Toss is even worse off
I think theyre forcing terran detection for midgame pushes. And protoss has obs before zerg has burrow anyhow. Terran will just have to get a raven out period.
Edit:
I like most of the changes, more harrassment for protoss, 2 new units zerg units that fix the problem that zerg has now. As in either you need to give zerg the ability to play in a way thats safe against everything or give them a way to scout everything (well not everything but you understand what im getting to). So the lurker 2.0 is the first of the two. and the Viper gives zerg the ability to be agressive against turtle terran / turtle toss. I think after balancing out all the new units and everything it will make the game alot better.
On October 22 2011 10:21 SilverforceX wrote: So to balance protoss, they added a unit which allows it to change becoming terran units... kinda implies terran units are better, no?
On October 22 2011 06:36 Kennigit wrote: Not only can structures like missile turrets be prevented from attacking, but using this ability on a zerg Spire would block the production of Mutalisks, Corruptors, and air upgrades.
I just can't see a scenario where that's a good game design choice. It would shut down zerg's production completely.
Alot of the protoss/zerg spells seems really imbalanced o_o Nexus being able to bring home an entire army? Viper dragging any unit towards it? MOVING BURROWED BANELINGS? I don't see how that even works
And did the really remove the carrier? How can they even do that D:
how about a zerg deathball vs toss deathball.... zerg steal 4-6 colossus for 100 energy each.. and then toss saves them with 75 energy recall and can join the battle later depending on how far away nexus is,,
- can cast 3 spells, a dark swarmish spell with small AoE called Blinding Cloud. I was using this on Zatic's tank/battle hellions before i realized that this was a bad idea.
I'm getting somewhat worried for protoss. Is there any good toss here who has a different opinion to educate me a little just quick? To me we just seem worse off than we already are against.. everything. Our new units arn't exactly overwhelming in comparison. Aoe air unit? I've never actually found myself in a situation where that could be useful if the opponent had the faintest idea how to spread out their units in some fashion.
The thor was bad against mutas, so they gave the anti air attack to protoss. The overseer was bad so they gave it to protoss?
Oh man... some of these new units/abilities really make me shudder. I hope like almighty fuck that I'm wrong; but I have this sense of doom... I fear HotS will be full of gimmicky crap that detracts from the RTS aspect of the game and makes it feel more like WoW, with all it's blocks, stuns, pulling units, preventing action from being taken, and surprise attacks from nowhere.
- can cast 3 spells, a dark swarmish spell with small AoE called Blinding Cloud. I was using this on Zatic's tank/battle hellions before i realized that this was a bad idea.
wait why is this a bad idea o o
The cloud as I understand it makes all ranged attacks melee. So think of tanks that can fire point blank
Not the dark swarm cloud I was hoping for But at least its something.
You can't remove carriers from starcraft... thats like removing a zergling or a battlecruiser or marine or drago.oops
That dark swarm ability combined with banelings is just going to be imbalanced... Dark swarm was only balanced in starcraft 1 because Lurkers had to burrow. Can't say im looking forward to activision ruining the game.
Did you know you get an acheivement for watching a replay or losing a game?
On October 22 2011 11:49 JediGamer wrote: You can't remove carriers from starcraft... thats like removing a zergling or a battlecruiser or marine or drago.oops
I wouldn't read to much into what is in or out right now, at least, not till the beta hits. They still have a year before the expansion goes live.
That said - I really do feel zerg needs a passive detection besides spores. I may be thinking out loud here but I think if creep tumors had detection it would be an awesome way to giving zerg the detection it needs early/mid game without having to go directly to this new unit and wasting energy. It would also fit with the whole "spread the creep! Own the map!" kind of logic.
- can cast 3 spells, a dark swarmish spell with small AoE called Blinding Cloud. I was using this on Zatic's tank/battle hellions before i realized that this was a bad idea.
wait why is this a bad idea o o
The cloud as I understand it makes all ranged attacks melee. So think of tanks that can fire point blank
Not the dark swarm cloud I was hoping for But at least its something.
I think you've got it wrong. Tanks and hellions primarily use splash as their damage, not the ability to kill one unit at a time really quickly like the marine, so dark swarm doesn't make a significant difference at all. It's dark swarm for sure but think of trying to pull that off when the terran had tanks and firebats only.
- can cast 3 spells, a dark swarmish spell with small AoE called Blinding Cloud. I was using this on Zatic's tank/battle hellions before i realized that this was a bad idea.
wait why is this a bad idea o o
The cloud as I understand it makes all ranged attacks melee. So think of tanks that can fire point blank
Not the dark swarm cloud I was hoping for But at least its something.
I think you've got it wrong. Tanks and hellions primarily use splash as their damage, not the ability to kill one unit at a time really quickly like the marine. It's dark swarm for sure but think of trying to pull that off when the terran had tanks and firebats only.
The cloud just makes things one range (melee) from what I understand. but tanks can't *shoot* there, therefore shouldn't they just do nothing? it's more like I guess hellions would then shit on the lings that come up.... but then can't you just use hydras or roaches or something to just attack from a distance then?
i think i need to see some real games before deciding if the changes are good or back, but the new video is so sick. i hope blizzard keeps making awesome games like this
It looks to me like more people will be playing WoL after HotS than stuck to vanilla before. I guess since they didn't really have holes to fill they needed to radically shift the game to meet expectations.
I'm sure there's a long way to go, so it's hard to take any of this seriously.
As long as it's melee range, Replicant is completely useless. I don't like how for Terran and Zerg they straight up gave them nice units, but they gave Toss 6 new spells. Six, on top of our already heavy spell caster units.
On October 22 2011 12:07 thopol wrote: It looks to me like more people will be playing WoL after HotS than stuck to vanilla before. I guess since they didn't really have holes to fill they needed to radically shift the game to meet expectations.
I'm sure there's a long way to go, so it's hard to take any of this seriously.
ppl who will stay with WoL will be probably those whinner. Pros will switch because they know after some patch it will be the future so it will be useless to stay with WoL
Oh man... some of these new units/abilities really make me shudder. I hope like almighty fuck that I'm wrong; but I have this sense of doom... I fear HotS will be full of gimmicky crap that detracts from the RTS aspect of the game and makes it feel more like WoW, with all it's blocks, stuns, pulling units, preventing action from being taken, and surprise attacks from nowhere.
Do you know BW. I suggest you go to BW liquipedia and read unit spells.
Ok, maybe i'm not understanding how the Oracle's building phase-out spell works, but it sounds really OP vs. Zerg... Say Protoss rushes with a stargate build, getting 2 Oracles and then a voidray or 2 (what doesn't really matter, just using VR's as example). Toss goes to zerg base, phases out Hydra den and spire.. then proceeds to rape zerg who can't build hydras or spire units?
That sounds like a really powerful combination with any number of rushes.. especially since zerg like to wait until the last second to build units for defense.. if they sneak an oracle or 2 in ahead of the rush, phase out the tech building needed to build the proper unit for defense, you're screwed.
On October 22 2011 12:31 gmorf33 wrote: Ok, maybe i'm not understanding how the Oracle's building phase-out spell works, but it sounds really OP vs. Zerg... Say Protoss rushes with a stargate build, getting 2 Oracles and then a voidray or 2 (what doesn't really matter, just using VR's as example). Toss goes to zerg base, phases out Hydra den and spire.. then proceeds to rape zerg who can't build hydras or spire units?
That sounds like a really powerful combination with any number of rushes.. especially since zerg like to wait until the last second to build units for defense.. if they sneak an oracle or 2 in ahead of the rush, phase out the tech building needed to build the proper unit for defense, you're screwed.
Except he'll have a couple queens and you're forgetting that gas is what limits stargate builds and oracles cost more gas than voids.
I'm not sure what to think about zerg detection now lol. Sounds pretty gimmicky.
Yeah, me too... seems really awkward. What's the point? With the adjusted cost of the Overseer, it seems to make more sense... Removing your eye stalk and sticking on your buddy? "hey Bob, hold this while i go tentacle rape that Colossus" lol that's just really wierd and cartoonish.
On October 22 2011 06:45 tmtx wrote: Ocular parasite is one time ability according to this. Can vipers cast OP on themselves? If not, then banshees should be ok.
Well seeing how it's lair it's no different from the overseer(besides build time which will probably be more than morphing an overseer and cost which will probably cost more than an overseer) and depending how much energy they start with as well. Maybe they don't start with enough energy to use it right away?(I would assume they would though) so even if they can cast it on themselves I would think banshees will be just the same
Interesting information, some good, some bad, some puzzling.
How exactly is the Tempest supposed to coexist with the Phoenix? Sounds especially odd as the Oracle seems to be designed as the Protoss harassment air unit.
I don't understand the Swarm Host, I don't see how it could possibly work as a siege unit. As I understand it the Swarm Host simply spawns what are essentially Broodlings at the Swarm Host's location.
The Terran changes are puzzling too. I'd never thought that Hellions needed a buff against light units, and the new Thor is just /facepalm
Excellent write up as always but I do wonder if you guys miss worded how Blizzard thought 1/1/1 and emp was too strong PRE 1.4. For the love of god, if they actually think that 1.4 magically fixed both of those, someone is geting fired. Also, I see most protoss engagements having destructible rocks in a beneficial position and in the trailer I think I see a protoss army actually deploying destructible rocks. Did you guys forget about something pertinent to that?
On October 22 2011 12:51 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote: Excellent write up as always but I do wonder if you guys miss worded how Blizzard thought 1/1/1 and emp was too strong PRE 1.4. For the love of god, if they actually think that 1.4 magically fixed both of those, someone is geting fired. Also, I see most protoss engagements having destructible rocks in a beneficial position and in the trailer I think I see a protoss army actually deploying destructible rocks. Did you guys forget about something pertinent to that?
Collapsible rocks. Not just protoss, they're "tactically deployed" throughout the map and anyone can use them
On October 22 2011 12:51 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote: Excellent write up as always but I do wonder if you guys miss worded how Blizzard thought 1/1/1 and emp was too strong PRE 1.4. For the love of god, if they actually think that 1.4 magically fixed both of those, someone is geting fired. Also, I see most protoss engagements having destructible rocks in a beneficial position and in the trailer I think I see a protoss army actually deploying destructible rocks. Did you guys forget about something pertinent to that?
Collapsible rocks. Not just protoss, they're "tactically deployed" throughout the map and anyone can use them
i can see zerg getting the most use out of them actually. Break down the near rocks if they want to be greedy. Since zerg has the lowest amount of "greed" time, this can actually be a huge deal in straight up ground fights.
protoss getting a super contaiminate ability will really hurt zerg in PvZ I think. If they lock down a hydra den, zerg will have to rely on queens since spore crawlers can also get locked down. Oracle is gonna be such an amazing unit in mid-late game. So zerg will need to build a couple hydra dens to be safe now? hrm:S
I'm really liking the viper. The grab ability can be used to save hurt ultras or on slow broodlords and queens as well as enemy siege tanks, medivacs/warp prisms or any flying unit trying to escape. Parasite is really cool, give your queens or brood lords detection, it's probably more practical to just use overlords since your armies generally die and if you group up several overlords together, the enemy might not know which overlord can detect. The new dark swarm is awesome. It's really going to make ultras/hydras/swarm hosts viable in ZvT which is a great thing.
Terrans units are simply too cool though, makes me want to switch over to terran just to play mech. All the new units are mech based right? AND they still have marauders? :DDDD
Battle Hellion seems like a sweet idea to make hellions useful late game which will be great in TvP, again making mech awesome. Then we have the new goliath which is going to own stalkers that makes me wonder why the marauder is still in the game. And the new vulture mine seems so awesome. But is it built by scvs or is it from a factory? if it can be dropped into mineral lines it's going to be devastating. Seems like a cheap way to control space making contains and mech much better.
Everybody is already pointing out their lack of meaningful response to 1/1/1 and EMP, I just wanted to point out these two as well.
They STILL don't effectively offer a way for Zerg to deal with marines and the only reason Zealots are considered powerful vs Terran is because that means they can't go OMG MASS MARAUDERS!
What I can say about the new protoss unit Corsa- I mean Oracle is that I wish it can unpower pylons by using Phase Shift on them to temporarily shut down the protoss base and proxy pylons.
I think the shredder unit for Terran is not needed (tanks, rines and mini thors anyone??) but looks like a cute mech spider. Reminds me of the Tachikomas from Ghost in the Shell. Hell, let it stay for the cuteness!!!! Btw the super Thor... why do Terran need a super unit?
On October 22 2011 14:51 PreliatorMax wrote: I think the shredder unit for Terran is not needed (tanks, rines and mini thors anyone??) but looks like a cute mech spider. Reminds me of the Tachikomas from Ghost in the Shell. Hell, let it stay for the cuteness!!!! Btw the super Thor... why do Terran need a super unit?
I can just imagine how awesome that dropping shredders in mineral lines can be though. Hell, even leaving them around the map in TvZ to kill off roaming packs of lings would be awesome. Prepare for some crazy tactics with these.
I hope the tempest gets it's aa attack tempered (did you see what it did to 30-40 mutas?), and gets a good anti ground attack. High damage, single target.... please?
On October 22 2011 14:51 PreliatorMax wrote: I think the shredder unit for Terran is not needed (tanks, rines and mini thors anyone??) but looks like a cute mech spider. Reminds me of the Tachikomas from Ghost in the Shell. Hell, let it stay for the cuteness!!!! Btw the super Thor... why do Terran need a super unit?
I can just imagine how awesome that dropping shredders in mineral lines can be though. Hell, even leaving them around the map in TvZ to kill off roaming packs of lings would be awesome. Prepare for some crazy tactics with these.
i dont see how anybody can look at the new terran units and think they don't need them after looking at the new zerg units..... zerg is going to be absolutely ridiculous. the way it's looking is zerg is going to be the most cost effective race while at the same time already being the race that always has more money than they can spend from being able to produce 21 drones every minute.....
I like this though because now in HotS it's looking liek if a Terran can win you know he had to really really really earn it.
I can just imagine how awesome that dropping shredders in mineral lines can be though. Hell, even leaving them around the map in TvZ to kill off roaming packs of lings would be awesome. Prepare for some crazy tactics with these.
I really prefer dropping rines or hellions since they're more mobile. With the shredder, the enemy will just run his workers before it sets up. About the pack of lings, yeah it made me change my mind about the usefulness of the shredder but massed ranged units will just kill it. This is just speculation so I don't know, maybe I'll love the shredder... Tachikomas in SC2 ftw!
On October 22 2011 14:51 PreliatorMax wrote: I think the shredder unit for Terran is not needed (tanks, rines and mini thors anyone??) but looks like a cute mech spider. Reminds me of the Tachikomas from Ghost in the Shell. Hell, let it stay for the cuteness!!!! Btw the super Thor... why do Terran need a super unit?
I can just imagine how awesome that dropping shredders in mineral lines can be though. Hell, even leaving them around the map in TvZ to kill off roaming packs of lings would be awesome. Prepare for some crazy tactics with these.
i dont see how anybody can look at the new terran units and think they don't need them after looking at the new zerg units..... zerg is going to be absolutely ridiculous. the way it's looking is zerg is going to be the most cost effective race while at the same time already being the race that always has more money than they can spend from being able to produce 21 drones every minute.....
I like this though because now in HotS it's looking liek if a Terran can win you know he had to really really really earn it.
Yeah thinking about that flying hybrid of BW Queen/Defiler/Overseer + Mk Scorpion makes the zerg more flexible. The walking broodlord is also nice. But I think the shredder is not useful because the zerg will just make roaches/hydras. I just can't wait for the pros to properly use the unit, but I have a bad feeling that this unit will be cut off in the beta. Just think about it, why make a unit that is useful only when deployed and cannot be repaired nor defended by other units. I wish that the shredder will just hatch smaller spiders which will act as mines ^_~.
- I am massively disappointed by the fact that there are very few new units. I was indeed expecting 2 to 3 units for each race, but definitely not that they would be removing some of them. I am sorry, but I feel the game a bit repetitive, even though I'm a random player. (especially poor zergs that have so little choice in the beginning) - The viper animation for abduction is atrocious. Come on Blizzard, with the money you have, you can definitely do one animation per unit in the game (or better, implement a physics engine) so that we have a realistic animation - Well, not everything is bad. Fixed corruptors, fixed hydralisks(!), fixed Dark swarm - Replicant, most interesting unit of the lot
On October 22 2011 11:13 Downfallen wrote: how about a zerg deathball vs toss deathball.... zerg steal 4-6 colossus for 100 energy each.. and then toss saves them with 75 energy recall and can join the battle later depending on how far away nexus is,,
Grab collosues away from toss army. Use infestors to mind control. Safety own the toss forces with their own colloseus with protection from your own men.
Uhm, excuse me, one question: The replicant will copy all the abilities of the unit it transforms to right? Even though it's not yet researched? Also, will it also copy other protoss units?
If you get research upgrades from replicating toss units then you can replicate stalkers and have lightning quick blink for about 225 minerals and 100 gas cheaper than getting twilight council.
I wasnt planning on buying HOTS because I heard the only dif would be zerg campaign and 1 new unit for each race in multiplayer, but I guess i'll have to buy it now.
Sooo, build a bunch of Oracles and start Phase Shifting those pool/warren/hydra den/infestor pit/spire, oh, now zerg can only build drones... ... Wait. Can we Phase Shift hatcherys? In theory, I'm loving the Oracle.
Oh my god I just realized I'll be able to PDD the terran too! Sweet jesusballs I'm excited for brotosses!
So how exactly did they fix zerg scouting... Now we have to make a roach a detector? Atleast an overseer could scout while flying... Weeeeh i want overseers back:p
On October 22 2011 17:19 ZaaaaaM wrote: So how exactly did they fix zerg scouting... Now we have to make a roach a detector? Atleast an overseer could scout while flying... Weeeeh i want overseers back:p
Now your cheap scout at lair tech is gone and you need to get overlord speed for any kind of equivalent.
Reading this and watching the trailer, I feel for certain multiplayer will be SOOO different. Look at all those new units! And loads of new spells! It looks to me like TvP will be REALLY different with these new units. Will take some time for the community to get used to...
Did the game get more complicated? Are all those units in the multiplayer? It looks more complex than WoL, more spells, and it looks like there are more 'big' units now.
Vipers look sick. Swarm Host is a siege unit that comes earlier than Broods. The new Terran mech looks soooooo neat, and the replicant and oracle look awesome as well. The biggest disappointment I have is that the Tempest looks like a lame replacement for the Carrier.
On October 22 2011 16:03 fezvez wrote: A few things :
- I am massively disappointed by the fact that there are very few new units. I was indeed expecting 2 to 3 units for each race, but definitely not that they would be removing some of them. I am sorry, but I feel the game a bit repetitive, even though I'm a random player. (especially poor zergs that have so little choice in the beginning) - The viper animation for abduction is atrocious. Come on Blizzard, with the money you have, you can definitely do one animation per unit in the game (or better, implement a physics engine) so that we have a realistic animation - Well, not everything is bad. Fixed corruptors, fixed hydralisks(!), fixed Dark swarm - Replicant, most interesting unit of the lot
They announced that they will remove units. Also, if they make too many new units (and even more will come with Legacy of the void) then the game becomes much harder to balance and much less accesible for noobs. And if a noob that watches huskystarcraft on youtube cannot grasp what is going on, then they do not get new players, viewers. What they announced was about 1 new unit per race and I am happy that they made more.
On October 22 2011 16:52 Checkm8 wrote: And another question: Won't zerg be really nightmarish to hold if they have DT-like splash damage units?
Probaly why T gets the shredder. Normally you would need a PF+turret, or a bunker+turret, now you just put a shredder there. Only problem I see is the main entrance, where the reinforcements come out, disabling the shredder.
Do i get that right, the Warhound will be the "new Thor" ? Will this be the conter-unit against Mutas? If so im glad to hear this. Thors been way to slow.
So.........how did they fix the scouting problem of zerg? With no overseer we need to invest in the overlord speed upgrade which takes longer to get and the overlords have less hp. WTF? And the new detection is just stupid.
The Warhound - How effective is the splash dmg? If it's as effective as the current thor we won't be seeing any kind of muta play in ZvT imo.
Zerg got huge buffs atm so if they have to get overlord speed to scout it really shouldn't bother them.I mean every viper ability is good an useful.So are all the new Zerg units but Terran and Protoss imo are getting worse unit in HoTS.So Zerg stop complying about you needing overlord speed to scout.
Zerg seems to have some pretty cool stuff this time. The viper seems interesting. Ultra's burrow charge? Hell yeah! Baneling burrow movement (late game upgrade)?? Oh no you didn't!! Hydra's OFF-CREEP MOVEMENT UPGRADE??? Take my money! ^^
I have one doubt: does the viper itself have detection or only when casting Ocular parasite we get detection? I'm a little confused. :S
edit- upon another read of the official list of unit changes I finally understood how it works for the Viper ^^
Sweet mother of mercy! The Zerg's abilities are off the hook. The viper is awesome(detector mutas anybody?), Siphon sounds interesting, Burrow Charge for ultras, burrow move for blings and finally finally speed upgrade for Hydras were really overdue. Also a ground siege unit? Awesome. I'm totally OK with only 2 new units compared to the other races since they are interesting and hopefully will change generic playstyle like e.g. mass roach hydra corruptor. Zergs new possibilities sound so good.I guess the viper will be Tier 2 - 2.5 while the swarm host will be tier 2.5 - 3. Generally, I really like how they tried to implement more micromechanics into the new units, although some things sound weird like the hero thor or the replicant. Especially the replicant will open up sooo many new strategies for Protoss. Terran units look a bit bland, but its not like the existing Terran units were bad to begin with, quite the contrary. Well, time will tell how good all that new stuff really is. Can't wait to try out new crazy strategies.
I don't understand all the QQ@Zerg new stuff.... it's the Zerg expansion. Duh!
@crafjan: Maybe build something else besides marines.E.g. a raven!
hmm, is it just me or these units are just ript-off from BW? New lurker? New corsair? New defiler that can fly? and lololol Goliath? Besides, some of the units are just plain bad aka "replicant"? seriously? what's the deal with this one? Isn't starcraft standout from other game because of their distinctly unique races? Then why give protoss the ability to transform into other race's units? It just doesn't give off the same starcraft feel as other units. And baneling burrows, i don't even know how David Kim got this idea. they didn't necessary buff other race's detection against baneling and yet decide to buff them -_- Good thing they removed two useless units Mothership and Carriers though.
I don't want to make a thread to show my frustration so I just leave this here.
All these remarks about balance of the new units are close to the definition of ignorance. You haven't played any games with these units yet, hell it hasn't even been in beta yet. So how can you consider any of these units imbalanced yet? I'm actually wondering if people might be trolling.
There isn't known too much about how removing some units in comparison to adding new units would change balance. So how can you already state a unit its imbalances? Now I don't mind someone stating a theoretical (situational) problem with the usage of the unit as it might be an unique thought and could prevent a certain "imbalanced" usage of unit. However most present it in the wrong tone by making stupid comparisions between sc:bw units, the BW expansion or other irrelevancies. Besides if you'd say something like "The Viper is a broken unit, pulling a colossus out of the protoss army is just ridicilous" you would have to know all the factors that the spell abduct and the viper unit are influenced by. The smallest tweak could change the usefulness immensely. Moreover you can't imply the unit is imbalanced before any synergy and/or gameplay with the race is fully tested (and most likely not by you, because if you reason like this you are likely to be imcompetent to test HoTS in the first place)
From the multiplayer Q&A Question: "What direction are you trying to go with the multiplay, and which unit do you think is going to be the most game changing?" Answer: "We're trying to add more strategies to the game - as always. As diverse matchups as possible. Dustin: I'm most nervous about the Replicant. It's a lot of fun, but I'm afraid of it being broken. I'm afraid that terrans will stop making siege tanks because they're afraid of the Replicant copying it, and thus resulting in removing units from the game - not adding. Kim: I'm most scared of the Viper. Because terran players rely on tanks for defence, and if you can shut that down - it's scary. Same for protoss and colossus."
These answers from Dustin Browder (lead designer of StarCraft 2) and David Kim (game balance designer of StarCraft) already signify that they are try to cautious with the new units and know what could be a problem. So we need to support their ideas but be constructive with our critism when the beta comes.
There is so much yet to be revealed before you actually can consider saying the word imbalance. The meta-game is still changing for WoL. Which means the game balance is still being explored.
"Implications of Imbalance In competitive gaming, overpowered strategies quickly become prevalent once discovered. Although the game may still be fair, it would become predictable and monotonous. This may leave a portion of the game content unplayed and therefore a waste of time for the players and developers as well."
On October 22 2011 07:48 blacklist_member wrote: How is that pulling things back ability even fair when the protoss strength lies in the few essential splash damage units? :O
Feedback the viper...
Or: 1) Make a Replicant 2) Turn it into a drone 3) Build a Hatchery 4) Tech up to Lair 5) Build your own Vipers 6) PULL YOUR SHIT BACK
On October 22 2011 07:48 blacklist_member wrote: How is that pulling things back ability even fair when the protoss strength lies in the few essential splash damage units? :O
Feedback the viper...
Or: 1) Make a Replicant 2) Turn it into a drone 3) Build a Hatchery 4) Tech up to Lair 5) Build your own Vipers 6) PULL YOUR SHIT BACK
Terran Mech would be a bit stronger I think. You have the anti-mechanical attack from the Warhound which make it more effective against protoss. AOE air damage is obviously night against muta. The Battle Hellion (if can be produce to near higher quantities) can "tank" the damage more effectively and with its wider firing arc could kill zerglings/zealots much easier. Seige tank = normal roll. My only question would be how much is the warhound. In the one picture you see a sizable amount. If they are cheaper it would make countering Muta much easier as you could leave a few in your base as well as in your army and not worry about loosing army "value"
I am disappointed that Blizzard is taking out the Mothership.
I know it was not the most effective unit and saw little use, but as someone who really enjoys spectating starcraft, I love the excitement the "hero unit" brings to games. At live tournaments, people LOVE to see that hero unit. Fans cheer just when they see it. The most exciting game I ever saw in Starcraft 2 was IPL3 Kiwikaki vs Stephano Game 2, and all the awesomeness that happened in that match on Kiwi's end had to do with amazing, creative, and unexpected mothership usage (seriously, if you did not see this game you need to go watch it now!).
Whether it was balanced or not I will not argue, but I would rather have seen them tweak it than remove it.
I'm a firm believer in the hero unit. I think each race should have their one hero unit, and it should only be safely viable in late game situations. I do not like the idea of only one race having a hero unit (formerly it was protoss but now it will be terran).
Can't protoss have a mothership, terran a thor, and zerg a.....welll something? Isn't there some way to make that work?
I'm not playing terran anymore after HotS.... the only real necessity against zerg is a siege tank and now it can be pulled back by a flying unit. What a terrible, terrible nerf to the already nerfed terran race. I honestly dont care about the pros and if TvZ is terran favored in korea, its fine elsewhere so this change won't be good.
I'm really digging the idea of the new reaper and the map control unit though. Still just cant believe the multiple unbelievable buffs zerg is getting *mind blown*
1. Carriers are weak against anti-air. 2. Create AOE anti-air unit for toss. 3. Remove carrie- wait, what? o_O
I'm a bit confused about some of the changes, but mostly about why toss is getting only stargate units, when they really could use something a bit more friendly on gas consumption.
On October 22 2011 22:29 sushiman wrote: 1. Carriers are weak against anti-air. 2. Create AOE anti-air unit for toss. 3. Remove carrie- wait, what? o_O
I'm a bit confused about some of the changes, but mostly about why toss is getting only stargate units, when they really could use something a bit more friendly on gas consumption.
I know two of the new units are created at stargates, but what about the third? I might have missed a detail, but it is possible one of those units comes from a robo.
Did anyone else notice in the trailer that the replicant changes directly into a siege tank....already in siege mode? No delay....that's pretty tight.
On October 22 2011 22:29 sushiman wrote: 1. Carriers are weak against anti-air. 2. Create AOE anti-air unit for toss. 3. Remove carrie- wait, what? o_O
I'm a bit confused about some of the changes, but mostly about why toss is getting only stargate units, when they really could use something a bit more friendly on gas consumption.
I know two of the new units are created at stargates, but what about the third? I might have missed a detail, but it is possible one of those units comes from a robo.
Did anyone else notice in the trailer that the replicant changes directly into a siege tank....already in siege mode? No delay....that's pretty tight.
Ah yes, my bad. But as far as new units for harassing go, it seems they went the stargate route in any case. With all the gas consumption still being very high. :/
Man, these new protoss units have so much potential. I mean from what i've read it looks like the protoss is getting the best buff .Imagine these new units in the hands of someone like MC lol.
On October 22 2011 22:29 sushiman wrote: 1. Carriers are weak against anti-air. 2. Create AOE anti-air unit for toss. 3. Remove carrie- wait, what? o_O
I'm a bit confused about some of the changes, but mostly about why toss is getting only stargate units, when they really could use something a bit more friendly on gas consumption.
I know two of the new units are created at stargates, but what about the third? I might have missed a detail, but it is possible one of those units comes from a robo.
Did anyone else notice in the trailer that the replicant changes directly into a siege tank....already in siege mode? No delay....that's pretty tight.
Ah yes, my bad. But as far as new units for harassing go, it seems they went the stargate route in any case. With all the gas consumption still being very high. :/
i believe the idea is that they are trying to make Stargate based builds viable. Maybe LotV we get some mineral heavy units but not as gas heavy.
On October 22 2011 22:29 sushiman wrote: 1. Carriers are weak against anti-air. 2. Create AOE anti-air unit for toss. 3. Remove carrie- wait, what? o_O
I'm a bit confused about some of the changes, but mostly about why toss is getting only stargate units, when they really could use something a bit more friendly on gas consumption.
I know two of the new units are created at stargates, but what about the third? I might have missed a detail, but it is possible one of those units comes from a robo.
Did anyone else notice in the trailer that the replicant changes directly into a siege tank....already in siege mode? No delay....that's pretty tight.
Ah yes, my bad. But as far as new units for harassing go, it seems they went the stargate route in any case. With all the gas consumption still being very high. :/
Just to mention: it is confirmed that the replicant comes from a robotics.
Most everything past tier I begans to consume gas. Yes, Protoss is not getting any canon fodder units. But Protoss has never been designed in such a way. Our units are expensive and our armies difficult to rebuild. It's a characteristic of our race, something that makes us unique. I don't think I want cheap units necessarily, as long as our expensive ones are working and we are able to survive long enough to get them (assuming we are playing smart).
Only useful thing I see the replication is if your enemy have spellcasters like infestor,raven or ghost then it might be wise to copy, especially with all the upgrades you get. However if you are going to use it on your own units in a massive techswitch you better be up in econ pretty big lol or something.
On October 23 2011 00:03 eYeball wrote: Only useful thing I see the replication is if your enemy have spellcasters like infestor,raven or ghost then it might be wise to copy, especially with all the upgrades you get. However if you are going to use it on your own units in a massive techswitch you better be up in econ pretty big lol or something.
i dont know, but judging from the animation they showed bout the replicants it's actually different then that. I think it can replicate ANY UNIT you've seen on the battlefield. The animation were replicants turning into siege tanks against zergs.
Anyone else find it odd that they nurfed the crap out of NP to the point its almost unusable(apparently due to balance issues), yet add almost the exact same ability back in with a new unit?
I feel a little robbed on this new ability, all though the ability to pull the unit from secured locations is nice, something just seems off
What the fuck is with all this stuff? Are we playing starcraft or warcraft? Further introduction of a hero-like unit, nearly EVERY unit now having special abilities. I hope this trash get scrapped before the beta like WoL, or man will this suck......
On October 22 2011 23:42 Jermstuddog wrote: My biggest problem with the whole expo units is... they're making Terran less Terran-like.
It's the same gripe with the Marauder, now they're trying to bulk up the Hellion.
Terrans already do the highest DPS from the longest range with the most options.
Now they have the tankiest units as well...
What advantage to Z and P have? Flavor?
are u serious, man? check out shredder, its' terran as hell. Also hellion lose their mobility in exchange for that tank mode so it's much more terranish. Warhound looked pretty slow even despite it was mentioned to be faster than thor.
The replicant is looking pretty gimmicky right now and I don't want to use the other races units. No one is going to make a unit that expensive unless they know it is going to be useful. What happens if you build this and your opponent pushes with MMM? You replicate a marauder If you can replicate your own units than this unit will be fantastic in the late game for changing between void rays, immortals and phoenix to have the perfect composition. It actually sounds imbalanced.
Thing with the Viper and its grapple ability will be its range. It's just essentially mind control...in fact maybe a bit inferior so if the range isn't that great for this spell, it won't be that powerful vs tank/colossi.
hmm There are so many units with active abilities now, i dont even know what to say. I think Warcraft have this role in RTS. Starcraft must be all about positioning and strategy(
Ultralisk burrow-charge really removes the importance of positioning, which should be one of the major aspects of an RTS.
They also said they want to remove marine-marauders having to micro things like zealots, so they add the alternate hellion mode that can tank them. Basically turning the fights into a-move instead of cool unit battles with lots of micro.
I really feel they are taking it in the wrong direction, removing key aspects of the game just in order to add new "cool" units.
Wtf is with this thor super unit crap? Im tired of super units, and im tired of blizzard forcing us to play in the way they want. Thors were "suppose" to mass counter mutalisks, what the fuck? Thats a terrible design in and of itself [one unit mass counters a harass unit...] and is even worse given the actual product of the game design. Mutalisks are integral and the ability to use them in spite of thors, with micro and intelligence, is a good thing. They're a relatively fine unit and replacing them with dramatically more effective A.A is completely unnecessary...
I'm definitely gonna play HotS and see how it goes, but some of this looks stupid. "Swarm Host"? Just give Zerg lurkers... "Replicant" can clone units??? what the fuck? Terran losing marauders??? WHAT?
I mean, I'm kind of excited... but I feel like after playing it for a couple months I'll end up quitting or something... I dunno.
On October 23 2011 07:09 Shebuha wrote: I'm definitely gonna play HotS and see how it goes, but some of this looks stupid. "Swarm Host"? Just give Zerg lurkers... "Replicant" can clone units??? what the fuck? Terran losing marauders??? WHAT?
I mean, I'm kind of excited... but I feel like after playing it for a couple months I'll end up quitting or something... I dunno.
Swarm Host have longer range than lurkers, and if you time your army to push at the same time as the locusts, they should be pretty damn effective.
And Terran aren't losing marauders, where did you hear that?
Balance Panel Terran vs Zerg heavily favors Terran in Korea. NA/EU seems fairly even. Pro/Community feedback says 1/1/1 too powerful. Blizzard agrees 1/1/1 was too strong pre 1.4 Blizzard agress EMP was too strong pre 1.4. Immortal Buff Still need some time to determine how the ratings have changed post patch. Looking at general protoss buff EMP Radius change?
yeah mvp vs nestea just this last game in grand finals. terran too good. wow.
Why would the Hydra speed upgrade be hive tech honestly, should just be lair tech since they are practically useless without it. I also pray the Light attribute is taken of off hydras, they're pretty much slow, really expensive marines with perma-stim damage.
The Oracle seems a little goofy as does the replicant :c
the rest looks really cool, can't wait to see swarm host contains and digging baneling attacks
Very glad to see that Blizzard is adding versatility like this to each race/matchup in such an informed way. They seem to be working their ass off to figure out how the game is going, where they want it to go, and how to get there. Can't wait for the expansion!
I wish there would be something to give toss a viable stargate opening in pvp (vs. 4gate for example) but I still have to say I'm looking forward to the new units in HotS.
The nexus recall ability is just bs for ZvP. It takes away any risk involved in poking out with your units to force zerg to not make drones. Oh and while we're at it let's take out the only viable early midgame scouting option for the zerg in Overseer/changeling.
And how is a lack of AoE air damage a problem for Toss but the only air AoE for terran get removed?
On October 23 2011 22:41 Flyingdutchman wrote: The nexus recall ability is just bs for ZvP. It takes away any risk involved in poking out with your units to force zerg to not make drones. Oh and while we're at it let's take out the only viable early midgame scouting option for the zerg in Overseer/changeling.
And how is a lack of AoE air damage a problem for Toss but the only air AoE for terran get removed?
Actually the new Terran "Goliath" unit has an anti-air splash attack like the Thor it's meant to replace.
I'm more puzzled by Protoss now having two air units with bonus to light air.
On October 23 2011 17:23 Leviance wrote: Where are the videos of actual gameplay footage? Plz don't tell me you didn't bring a camera.
Quite a few videos are on youtube at youtube.com/user/rezyn8. Most of the panel videos are cut in thirds, which is annoying, but it all seems to be there, with one glaring exception: the new terran units video is missing the part where they show the new Thor.
Only SC2 related videos are posted. The uploader is SiliconSports.net, with whom I'm completely unfamiliar, and cannot vouch for.
(Finally created a TL account to share this. Seemed like a good reason to register.)
was reading all of that on the weekend and when i got to protoss i was all like "I am SO switching to protoss. Protoss that can harass!? Dream = come true"..
Then i read the following words "Banelings can move while burrowed". Killed that dream dead. Zerg 4 LYFE!
My view on these changes Protoss Pros: much needed AoE anti-air replicant will open many new avenues for protoss nexus can do more cool things Cons: the nature of a replicant will be the subject of many patches as people find ways to abuse the units flexibility (I hope to be proven wrong on this). Depending on energy/resource cost, I find it likely that mass recall from nexus will be the subject of a balance patch or two as well. final judgment: protoss will probably be more dominant in early stages of HotS and taper off to be a solid race, considering changes to other races; an overall good move from the SC2 balancing department Terran: Pros: So far as I can tell, no units were removed from the race for HotS multiplayer Warhound could spice things up quite nicely, my first impression makes me believe its more-or-less a neo-goliath, ALL FOR IT! Vulture can now be pretty effective late game combat Cons: drop one super unit for another, first the mothership, now the Thor. It could work very well but I personally don't believe so. reapers less effective vs buildings Ghost will be a little harder to manage because of new cloak mechanic shredder could fill some more menial positions but overall seems like a rehash of siege tank mechanic. final judgment: Terran Design changes for HotS are solid, they tie up loose ends nicely, but I believe they fail to provide as many new and varied mechanics as the Zerg and especially the Protoss. One could argue this was done to settle the score from WoL. IMO, terran, as arguably the most dominant race will dip and settle into a well balanced race. Zerg: Pros: New viper detect mechanic is nifty and provides alot of meta-game potential I couldn't help but think of dark swarm when I read the description for blinding cloud (always a good thing) abduct seems kind of gimmicky but is very strong. Siphon is cool! love the new Ultra burrow ability! baneling burrow-move is awesome! faster hydras are awesome! Cons: Swarm host seems kind of like a rehash of Broodlord mechanic. overseer is a marginal but notable loss. Final judgement: Zerg is having a very good face lift, blizzard has addressed alot of the issues i've heard from zerg players. The two biggest issues being ultras and and hydras, I personally think the Ultra mechanic is brilliant, and the hydra speed has been a long time coming. Zerg will finally get what they've asked for and then some, I see a strong showing in HotS. Overview: From what I read in this thread, I can say that I am confident that blizzard has made some solid design choices for HotS, They have addressed many WoL issues with both creativity and elegance. One important thing I did notice is that a few of the new mechanics and units seems to simulate BW mechanics, which I personally like. take the warhound for instance, a mech walker with strong AA capability, or blinding cloud, an effect that reduces all units' attack range to melee. Maybe they've realized since WoL that you can't top perfection.
Analysis of changes: Terran seems to get another viable tech-path: "All mech" now becomes a serious alternative to MMM. Shredder might create new defensive, harassing and map controlling possibilities.
Zerg gets a boost in late-game. Hopefully, good infestor + viper control will make a 200 zerg army better stand up against a 200 terran/protoss army. This might make zerg early game slightly easier if they don't require such an economic lead to stand a chance.
Protoss will get more harass and anti-harass options. Protoss late-game will likely become tougher against zerg and will require protoss to use harass and micro to a greater extent.