This is it. After three months of play, everything comes down to a single best-of-nine match in the desert oasis of Las Vegas. A season defined by incredible play, surprising upsets, disappointing defeats, and questionable coaching decisions will be decided in less than a day, putting the cap on GSL's first team-league run of the year.
The inaugural season of the year is poised to make a splash and set the standard for months to come, not only pairing itself with a large offline tournament outside Korea, the first time the GSTL has made an appearance in foreign land, but by becoming a spectacle all unto its own.
With the crew running rehearsals all week, MC CatsPajamas has been honing his role, perfecting and fine-tuning the introductions and preparing for the energy level needed on the biggest GSTL stage yet. The players, warmed up already from a series of open bracket or group games already, will be showing their full force. They will show their true colors, finally unleashing strategies on the world that they may have been holding back from IPL.
Get ready for quite a show. It should be a good one.
StarTale’s Battle in the Desert
by Pandemic
The tension is high between rivaling teams StarTale and Prime. Going into the desert for one last battle and to be crowned GSTL Champions.
Recently looking as if they have finally conquered inconsistency, StarTale is fired up for these finals after there was a huge amount of momentum gained from the semifinals. Those the games were close, in the end StarTale took overpowered MVP 5 games to 3. StarTale, fighting without their macro orientated Terran Bomber, had a mountain to climb during the semifinals when facing off with MVP’s ever so powerful line up. Taking on Prime will be no easy feat. StarTale’s key players will be needed if they want to rain over Prime’s parade this coming finals day.
StarTale’s strength lies in players which have been performing well throughout the tournament and have shown top form lately. With Squirtle pulling the upset over DRG, perhaps MarineKing is in the Protoss’ line of fire? The confidence that oozes out of StarTale’s line is ever increasing, as they are flying the entire team roster out to Las Vegas to watch the finals and their fellow teammates play their hearts out for the coveted GSTL championship trophy, not to mention bragging rights when they return to Korea.
Even before considering last year's supposed-next-big-thing Bomber, StarTale has an extremely strong and much underrated line up capable of causing huge amounts of damage to the Prime roster. Both Curious and Squirtle taking two games against MVP could easily spell trouble for Prime. With MarineKing’s exceptional run against Zerg and Terran recently, it leads to the conclusion that maybe his TvP is slightly off, giving Squirtle a slight advantage if these two were to fight it out. Despite his loss to GanZi the day before the finals, PartinG is yet another strong Protoss in the StarTale disposal that will remain ready to unleash upon the world. After all, in his recent MLG run PartinG took a game off MarineKing and the experience should prove useful this weekend.
They will need to keep a close eye on BBoongBBoongPrime as there a lot of strong Protosses in StarTale’s line up, with the long-name Zerg's ability to strike down the better StarTale players selecting a time to take him out will be key. The possibility of an all-kill remains every present with Squirtle’s recent performance, even after a slightly disappointing finish in the open bracket of the IPL.
StarTale’s ace would be Bomber going into this final and could stand a very close chance sniping Marine King with his outstanding TvT which at the moment is his strongest matchup. Sending him out would be a wise choice to counter Prime’s decision. Bomber, a legend in his own right will definitely bring the A game everyone is looking for while still being able to please the sold out crowd in Las Vegas.
StarTale is a team which is known for their showmen like players, and with AcE having a strong open bracket showing his ceremony-dial should be turned all the way up. This weekend will definitely be a weekend to remember.
Blood will be spilled on the sand. This is StarTale's battle, and they intend to win.
Prime Revolution
by Fionn
Not too long ago, Prime was left for dead. MarineKing, after choking in the biggest match of his life in the semifinals of the $100,000 Super Tournament to MMA after being up 2-0 in the best-of-five series, began the biggest slump of his career. After losing his chance of becoming a GSL champion for the fourth time, MKP not only didn't make it back to a GSL finals or even semifinals, but he fell all the way down to Code A and didn't make it back to the round of sixteen of Code S for six months.
Polt, their player who did win the Super Tournament, left the team shortly after and joined the Team SCV Life to become their captain. HongUn, their best Protoss who had made various deep runs in Code S, also left the team and decided to join a foreign team. Anypro, one of their most consistent players, vanished from the face of the earth and hasn't been seen in what seems like a year. Maka, the player who everyone thought was going to win a couple of GSL titles due to his impressive results in the beta, never lived up to expectations after the first season and also decided to join a foreign team.
Their main sponsor, Sabasaba Chicken? Left them.
Their partnership with the Chinese team, World Elite? Gone.
What was left was a rag tag group of players led by a guy who had gone to the finals three times, had choked multiple times on the biggest stage possible, and was going through the toughest time in his progaming career. A team that once was known for it's upbeat attitude and close team nature, was now in shambles with people even whispering how long before they folded or when a foreign team would offer MarineKing a big contract to leave. It felt like the clock was ticking until the Prime team disbanded or their only star would leave for greener foreign pastures.
In what, at first, appeared to be a last ditch desperation tactic to save the team, Prime decided to essentially become their own sponsor. They teamed up with an online clothing store, turned their nerds into models, and created PrimeZzang, the first ever half Starcraft 2 team and half modeling service. Again, at the beginning, it all seemed quite foolish. Kids who only played a video game for 10 plus hours a day modeling online for clothes?
It turned out to be one of the best decisions they ever made. The online store was a success with not only the Korean community, but the foreign community as well with MarineKing as their main model. With an actual sponsor, the team was allowed to bounce back from the ditch they had fallen into, making a miraculous run in the GSTL playoffs after being the only team to sneak into the knockout rounds with a losing record. With the emergence of Creator, the fifteen-year-old Protoss, the memories of HongUn's blink stalker all-ins were quickly forgotten and a new team was shaping in front of our eyes.
While the old players were missed, a new generation was starting to take the stage. Alongside Creator, they had Maru, a fourteen-year-old Terran player who had once made Code A before falling in an embarrassing series against FruitDealer, and BboongBboong, an eccentric, but very popular, player who after winning a game in a team league would go to the bench for a snack before going back into the booth. Finally, there was GhostKing, formerly known as Byun, who joined Prime after Polt left to fill the void, but wasn't allowed to play after an incident with Coca in a weekly tournament where he made a foolish mistake that cost him a long suspension from competitive play.
After falling to MVP in last season's finals, everything started to come together. Creator, a player who always had potential but never was able to get over the hump, started to impress everyone with his double forge play against Terran and made a name for himself. Maru, the player who was the last player FruitDealer ever beat before moving to LoL, was now older, wiser, and not only qualified for Code S in his first go around, but topped his round of thirty two to the surprise of everyone. GhostKing, who finally come off his lengthy suspension, came up big in his first appearance on his new team, three-killing and getting the win for his team against the opponents they'll face once again in the final.
Prime is a team that is only still around because of their will to survive. Without sponsors, their best players leaving, and their star player in the biggest drought of his career, it wouldn't have been surprising to see them lose everything. They were literally a one man team with their second best player on the roster, GhostKing, suspended due to a "match fixing" scandal. Nothing was going right and it took real initiative to turn the sinking ship into what you see now.
A championship for Prime wouldn't be just another trophy to put on a shelf, but a symbol for how they've come. MarineKing, the player who was once known for choking and falling apart in his booth, has finally become the player that everyone had always hoped he would turn into. With his confidence at the highest it's ever been, two MLG titles under his belt, and a chance to bring a title to his team, this is the time for MarineKing to have the crowning achievement of his career.
Yes, MLG Winter Arena was nice and MLG Winter Championship gave out more money, but if MarineKing can deliver a championship to Prime, it will justify everything that he has gone through in the past year. While his friends have left him and the old members of Prime have faded, he has never wavered. He might not be the captain by title, but he is the heart and soul of this Prime team.
Grab your flags, Prime fans, for the night is upon us in the city of sin. The Prime Revolution is finally ready to begin it's march.
Choya, Coaching Decisions, and the Benefit of the Doubt
by WaxAngel
Alas, poor Choya. After quieting those who doubted the worthiness of his frequent GSL appearances by winning a respectable number of games, FXO's head coach/player landed himself in another heap of trouble during the GSTL semi-finals against Prime.
To a spectator, FXO is a team with a clear top four of Leenock, Gumiho, Lucky, and Oz, with a flexible fifth spot that can be filled depending on situation. By deploying FXOasd earlier in the evening, it seemed that FXO had precluded the possibility of Choya, or anyone outside of the four horsemen from getting a shot at playing.
GSTL viewers might have begrudgingly recognized Choya as FXO's fifth best player in the line-up, but his decision to play himself ahead of Oz in a situation where FXO had only two lives left (Leenock was preserved as the ace) crossed the line for many fans. By a variety of measures – tournament results or otherwise – Oz was clearly a superior player to Choya, and Choya putting himself ahead of Oz was an example of overwhelming idiocy or conceit.
That's an understandable initial reaction. On paper, it seems correct for a team to always play its top players, especially in situations where the stakes are high. However, it's almost always not that simple.
Years of team competition in professional Brood War have shown that there are a great many reasons to not always stick with your theoretical top players, even when it comes down to high stakes situations. Numerous Proleague games, including those in the playoffs, have been decided by unlikely heroes off the bench.
Beyond just simple 'skill,' roster choices depend heavily on maps, match-ups, and the ability to prepare for either.
Maps and match-ups are pretty obvious. Some maps favor a specific race (or at least teams and players will think so), and some maps will favor a particular player's style. In any case, it's often a big enough factor that it trumps overall skill level, where a lesser skilled player who's more suitable for a specific map will be picked ahead of better overall player. For instance, in the recent Proleague playoffs, KT decided to play Stats ahead of Flash (yes, that Flash) in ace match, because the map was the Terran-killing Neo Outlier. The move paid off, as Stats was able to beat Samsung Khan's Stork and close out the series. Match-ups are pretty much the same deal, where a lesser skilled, one match-up specialist might be a better choice against a specific opponent than the player who has a better all-around game.
Ability to prepare means that there's only a finite amount of time a player can invest in preparing for every combination of match-up, map and opponent, which gives birth to the concept of the 'sniper.' A player who has practiced specifically for one player on a specific map will have a big advantage against a player who practiced very broadly, and this can easily overcome a generic skill gap. A team might tell a rotation player to focus 100% of his practice for a specific opponent on a specific map, lying in wait to spring his trap on a superstar.
Outside of that, there's general roster mind-games to consider, ones that apply to any team-based competition, from football to American football. Making unintuitive roster choices to render an opponent's preparation for the 'obvious' pick largely useless, and many skilled leaders will play a chess-game where they try to outsmart the opposing coach. If teamleagues really were just about playing your top X players, there wouldn't be much use for head coaches.
Anyhow, the point of all this is to say that Choya probably had a good reason to play himself ahead of Oz, even if it was for reasons that's not entirely visible to a spectator.* At least match-up wise, you can start to see some of the reasoning. Oz has had a very poor record in recent PvTs (5 – 9), and while Choya isn't so hot historically in that match-up, he was definitely picking up the slack in that match-up during this season of GSTL.
Even further outside of that, it's entirely possible that Choya happened to have more practice on the remaining maps in the pool, or simply had a high overall level of comfort for them. Or perhaps Choya was the player who had a specifically prepared sniping strategy for a later opponent like MKP or MarU, and he was the better overall choice in the long run. In any case, Choya and Oz consulted with each other, and there were enough factors for them to come to the conclusion that Choya was the better choice in that specific situation.
Obviously, it didn't work out, and FXO will not be at the GSTL finals in Las Vegas. However, for FXO, I suspect it's only the result that's regrettable, not the choice. In the upcoming GSTL finals, it's likely we will see some roster choices that we don't understand, or don't seem to make sense at first. But it's worth keeping in mind that there are many things going on that we don't know as spectators, that both teams will be trying their best to win, and everything will be done to that end.
*I'm not even going to bother with the personal glory argument, because that's plain dumb. Choya's job is to maximize the success of his team, and he's done a damn good job at that. It's amusing for sure to poke fun at his GSTL appearances, but to seriously accuse him of consciously undermining his team when he's turned fOu from a GSTL free-win into one of its best teams, put his team into a situation where they have more international tournament opportunities than SlayerS or IM is f***ing stupid.
The possibility of an all-kill remains every present with Squirtle’s recent performance, even after a slightly disappointing finish in the open bracket of the IPL.
Didn't Squirtle make it straight into Pool Play via WB? How is that disappointing or were his games streamed (didn't watch any) and he showed disappointing games?
Betting on Prime to take this championship, because PartinG will choke and nothing will be left to stop MarineKing.
The possibility of an all-kill remains every present with Squirtle’s recent performance, even after a slightly disappointing finish in the open bracket of the IPL.
Didn't Squirtle make it straight into Pool Play via WB? How is that disappointing or were his games streamed (didn't watch any) and he showed disappointing games?
Betting on Prime to take this championship, because PartinG will choke.
IPL actually screwed up and reported Ace 2-0'ed Squirtle. It came out 30 minutes later that it was actually Squirtle who 2-0'ed Ace.
Thanks for the article. Good to see our champion (choya) has some support. A few very ignorant people, notably one specifically from Korean media, has whipped the crap out of him. But his and oz's decision was what was best for the team. It just didn't turn out well.
I can't help but think what the world would think if Choya had won vs byun.
Really nice article. I really hope Prime wins this! The story is just touching. The results weren't coming and everyone left them, players and sponsors alike. But they never gave up, and kept on going, smiling. I hope it pays off.
LOL im not sure if most people read the article from top to bottom, but the Prime writeup rips the absolute $%^& out of the startale one!
Their journey from pain and anguish to the glory they face in front of them now is one only found in fantasy novels. The story of this team is truly incredible and moving, and inspirational also. I cant think of a team more deserving. Startale, cheer all you want. You may win, that is a possibility, i am not questioning that. But who deserves it more? I hope I have made that obvious.
On April 07 2012 17:36 cTrFray wrote: they should use sase he played better that most of the ST roster in the open bracket....
Uhm who are you referring to that played worse than SaSe? Sase is a good player but I see no point in their team setup to use him against prime, Startale got better players than that.
On April 07 2012 17:36 cTrFray wrote: they should use sase he played better that most of the ST roster in the open bracket....
Considering Parting, Curious, Squirtle made it through and Bomber was already in, while AcE was inches away from going through, I think Sase's performance is far from enough to get him a chance to play in a game with such high stakes.
woo, sorry ST, love you guys but Prime fighting!!! love MKP and the story behind Prime's struggles!
also, thank you for the writeup on Choya. That man has poured his sweat and money into keeping the team alive, working to keep food on the table and sacrificing his own practice time so that he can keep the pro team alive before FXO came along. To think that he'd put himself above the team is idiocy. He loves his team, and his teammates, and did what he and his team thought was best, and having beaten ryung and mma recently, it made sense to send him as a PvT sniper. People who hate on Choya are being ignorant. Choya and FXO FIGHTING! next season Choya, you got this!!
Considering MKP's TvP as his weakest matchup simply because PartinG (maybe the best PvT in the world) took a game off of him is a testament to how monstrous the Cute Marine Sith Lord is atm.
There's another side of Choya which makes him a good pick for a team league clutch situation: he's seriously fucking weird.
No, really. If you think about what it would be like to face up against Choya, it's not a nice place to be. Can you really predict with any confidence what kind of kooky bullshit he's going to throw at you - as a spectator?
Now imagine the difficulty of working that out, and now try to empathise with what it'd be like sitting in the other booth.
That alone gives Choya an edge at least in a team league situation, and when you factor in the fact that Oz doesn't really have an aura in the PvT matchup, I think, combined with all the other factors, it really wasn't a bad choice at all.
i'm going to have to agree with the write up on Choya. I thought and still think that he's one of the best coaches in the sc2 business. His love and passion for the team is undeniable. I was a bit sad that it was only gonna be either FXO or Prime in the GSTL finals (my two favourite team), but since it has come down to this: Prime! Fighting!
What? Foxer's tvp is his weakest matchup?? Don't know how you guys came to that conclusion, as it's pretty ridiculous. His TvP is actually his strongest matchup atm, even stronger than his amazing tvz I would say. He has consistently beaten all the top protoss players in the last 2 months, showing spectacular play. His tvp win% overall is (67.96%) and his tvp win% in the last 2 months is (72.73%) , and that is vs players like Parting, MC and Genius.
If anything, his tvt would historically be his weakest matchup (59.54%), even though we have not seen him play a lot of tvt's vs top koreans lately.
In the writeup about Prime, you mention about how they unpartnered with WE and how that was bad, but on their rise you didn't mention their partnership with Tt esports, and how that helped MKP go to forreign events and also helped expand Primezzang.
On April 07 2012 18:48 FXOBoSs wrote: Thanks for the article. Good to see our champion (choya) has some support. A few very ignorant people, notably one specifically from Korean media, has whipped the crap out of him. But his and oz's decision was what was best for the team. It just didn't turn out well.
I can't help but think what the world would think if Choya had won vs byun.
Its unfortunate to hear he has such an obvious detractor in the Korean media. Considering how he has helped make the team so successful I would think he got more credit over there. I for one have a lot of respect for the guy. Cheers on getting so far this season!
Will this be casted on the IPL stream or on Gom tv?
Also, did naniwa come with them, I noticed he wasnt in the IPL tournament?
On April 07 2012 18:48 FXOBoSs wrote: Thanks for the article. Good to see our champion (choya) has some support. A few very ignorant people, notably one specifically from Korean media, has whipped the crap out of him. But his and oz's decision was what was best for the team. It just didn't turn out well.
I can't help but think what the world would think if Choya had won vs byun.
Honestly, looking at it even more now, I think Choya's decision was the best. Oz lost 2-1 to Illusion at IPL4. Overall, I think Oz is the stronger player, but Oz's PvT just hasn't been looking that good lately. Choya might not be the greatest PvT'er, but he's shown he can and will cheese or pull out a sneaky strategy to take a win or two. If he could have taken out GKP and/or another Terran, it would have made Leenock's work easier.
Go StarTale!... it' probably a good omen that Bomber beat MMA... should be the perfect kryptonite for MKP. Prime's chances hang on MKP, Creator... and probably Maru's lil cheeseballs...
With MarineKing’s exceptional run against Zerg and Terran recently, it leads to the conclusion that maybe his TvP is slightly off,
Um, what? MKP's best matchup in 2012 has been his TvP. He's gone 46-9 this year and has beaten pretty much every single big name protoss. It's his TvT that's questionable since he hasn't played that as many high caliber terrans as he has other top z/p lately.
Anyhow, the point of all this is to say that Choya probably had a good reason to play himself ahead of Oz, even if it was for reasons that's not entirely visible to a spectator.* At least match-up wise, you can start to see some of the reasoning. Oz has had a very poor record in recent PvTs (5 – 9), and while Choya isn't so hot historically in that match-up, he was definitely picking up the slack in that match-up during this season of GSTL.
Waxangel this was the only paragraph you needed to defend Choya sending himself out instead of Oz. The Stats/Flash comparison isn't anything like the FXO situation at all since Choya and Oz play the same race.
With MarineKing’s exceptional run against Zerg and Terran recently, it leads to the conclusion that maybe his TvP is slightly off,
Um, what? MKP's best matchup in 2012 has been his TvP. He's gone 46-9 this year and has beaten pretty much every single big name protoss. It's his TvT that's questionable since he hasn't played that as many high caliber terrans as he has other top z/p lately.
Anyhow, the point of all this is to say that Choya probably had a good reason to play himself ahead of Oz, even if it was for reasons that's not entirely visible to a spectator.* At least match-up wise, you can start to see some of the reasoning. Oz has had a very poor record in recent PvTs (5 – 9), and while Choya isn't so hot historically in that match-up, he was definitely picking up the slack in that match-up during this season of GSTL.
Waxangel this was the only paragraph you needed to defend Choya sending himself out instead of Oz. The Stats/Flash comparison isn't anything like the FXO situation at all since Choya and Oz play the same race.
I think he was alluding to the fact that there are many reasons to send out a "worse" player, even if those reasons weren't applicable to this specific situation.
ST will most likely win if Bomber kills off MKP and maybe 1 more, if not I expect Prime to take it.
I have a huge doubt. Is it going to be today OR TOMORROW??? x x!!!! It says SUNDAY on gomtv but from what I'm reading on every site it's apparently today in 2 hours!
"BWOOOOSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH"... every sound effect totally blocking out casters... Oh whats that casters? We can't hear you the SOUND EFFECTS ARE WAY too loud... could anywhere there please tell them to turn it down its hurting my ears otherwise I can't hear the casters... damn it.
Wow a re-game!?!? I know it's a controversial decision but can't help but feel that Parting just got cheated.
Not to go on a huge tangent, but the fact that Blizzard STILL hasn't implemented a "tournament LAN" option still blows my mind. I am certain they can implement a LAN solution to resolve these problems, and design it in such a way that it is only used in tournaments.
On April 08 2012 11:29 El_DeathDealer wrote: What exactly happened that put the game in doubt?
Parting dropped (internet issues) while he was about to camp MKP's production facilities and, unlike MKP, had a strong standing army with 15+ zealots or so and a few archons, whereas MKP only had 3 MARAUDERS.... however they JUST decided that it will be taken to a rematch
update. "IT WILL BE ON ENTOMBED VALLEY AND THE SAME PLAYERS WILL PLAY !!"
Blizzard's lack of LAN support happened. An internet problem caused MKP to DC right after a big battle.
Parting had a definite advantage, but his vikings could have cleaned that warp prism up easily, and all the collosi were down, so while parting had better field position, MKP was by no means dead yet.
On April 08 2012 11:35 DidYuhim wrote: MKP being fan favorite happened.
This one thousand times over. It was very evident when the roaring cheers were heard when the re-game was announced. Seems there are a lot of people in the audience that don't care about being fair, they just want the decision in MKP's favor.
It is further compounded when you consider the grueling process Parting is going through, which has now (unnecessarily, imo) been exacerbated with the re-game decision.
On April 08 2012 11:39 GunPaladin wrote: Has Blizzard given a reason for not offering lan support at this point?
They have not had an opportunity in this scenario to respond (I don't think they would if they could lol), and if they did, it would likely be the same canned response we have already seen.
Total garbage....Nice job at giving MKP the win he never should have had in the first place....since it's now 1-1 how about MKP and Parting play the grudge match?
Although I really like MKP as a player, I feel that Parting has been cheated, he was clearly ahead like.. all he had to do was a-move and he would've won. I just don't think playing a re-game after having a basically winning the game helped his mental state.
On April 08 2012 12:28 furo wrote: how the fuck did MKP win this game? my inet broke for 1min, MKP was down 20 supply before the basetrade, when it came back he was up 70.
MKP had bigger fighting supply(especially more tanks) so bomber decided to basetrade. But because of bomber hesitating to run in the main base of MKP he lost
On April 08 2012 12:29 Exya wrote: Although I really like MKP as a player, I feel that Parting has been cheated, he was clearly ahead like.. all he had to do was a-move and he would've won. I just don't think playing a re-game after having a basically winning the game helped his mental state.
I'd be even fine if they did make a "draw", add one point to each team, remove both players from the pool and make team pull new players. Even like this it would have been more fair.
Uhhhhgg that last game (MKP vs Squirtle) was infuriating...hard to understand how MKP wins when he pulls all his SCVs from his natural across the map, loses 13 of them for free and still wins at the battle outside Squirtle's natural...
Almost as infuriating as the fact that this and the preceding game should not have even taken place.
On April 08 2012 12:29 Exya wrote: Although I really like MKP as a player, I feel that Parting has been cheated, he was clearly ahead like.. all he had to do was a-move and he would've won. I just don't think playing a re-game after having a basically winning the game helped his mental state.
I'd be even fine if they did make a "draw", add one point to each team, remove both players from the pool and make team pull new players. Even like this it would have been more fair.
I really like this idea, hopefully they implement something like this next time or better yet just get some tournament LAN system ^^
I hate it when controversial decisions happen like that... it's going to take away all the glory for Prime if they win for somethings that's not even their fault :/
Wow Prime wins the "Facepalm GSTL Championship". What a terrible decision by the referees and then considering the ramifications of that decision....so bad.
On April 08 2012 12:47 Ldawg wrote: Uhhhhgg that last game (MKP vs Squirtle) was infuriating...hard to understand how MKP wins when he pulls all his SCVs from his natural across the map, loses 13 of them for free and still wins at the battle outside Squirtle's natural...
Almost as infuriating as the fact that this and the preceding game should not have even taken place.
Not for free, it cost Squirtle a ton of forcefields, which you could see he very badly needed when MKP engaged at his natural
I was in the crowd when the decision was made. I too feel Parting had that game in the bag BUT let's look at this as it was, a political decision. Had they ruled in favor of Parting, there may have been a drop in viewers because after all MKP is like the moneybag for Prime and a large portion of the spectators are there for him (be real). ALSO, if Parting were the better player, he should have had no problem finishing him off a second time, but he just wasn't up to par - relying heavily on his storm abilities which are AMAZING but a collosus switch up would have put him in a better position. He got outplayed by MKP's splits. MKP is just the superior player all around, and I feel the victory for prime was well deserved, despite the bad ref. call.
I dunno... Parting had the advantage for sure but I can't really say MKP was completely out. The whole game was pretty back and forth. They were trading 20-40 supply back and forth and we don't really know how it would have played out.
For example Parting had no forward pylon (I think) and the only way for him to reinforce would have been his warp prism. But MKP still had a butt ton of Vikings left to snipe it. He also had a huge bank, good infrastructure and a whole bunch of units ready to pop out. MKP was kiting speed lots all game (and the subsequent game)
Parting has great macro and spell casting but his gateway unit control is his weakness. Without any aoe units on the field who's to say MKP couldnt have traded cost effectively and went for a counterattack after a few production cycles?
And this is coming from a guy who considers Parting the best Protoss in the world right now. (sorry MC you've been "figured out" again. And Oz needs to step up is PvT)
I hope they elaborate on the decision to regame. And also GODAMN BLIZZARD LAN PLOX!!!!
Parting had 40 supply lead, same number of bases(mkp's bank was about to run out) and units in terran's production. I don't think you can recuperate from this, even if you have loud title of "best player in the world".
What's done is done. Sure people can be salty over it but what good will it do? ref made the call and we all need to accept it. Same in every other sport, ref makes a bad call you just need to suck it up and move on. Feel really bad for startale and parting, though.
On April 08 2012 14:26 bcmc wrote: Parting got robbed in one of the sickest PvT's ever.
I wish they zoomed in on Dustin Browder's face when the audience was chanting "We want LAN!".
Give it to us Blizzard. We deserve it.
Honestly, I feel like GOM messed up a HUGE opportunity to campaign for LAN. Like, when everyone was chanting, it was pretty much an angry chant. But the casters shrugged it off and laughed it away. They then proceeded to call out to lizzard for making great games. Now, imagine what could have happened if they put blizzard on the spot.
I'm assuming Khaldor and Wolf had some contracts where they couldn't say some stuff. Sorry for assuming.
They were great and so was blizzard for showing up.
I turned off the stream after they decided to rerun the game and parting lost the 2nd one. Didnt watch the rest of the games. It was a complete joke and u could see it in MKPs face that it was a really bitter win for him. He wasnt happy at all and felt sad for parting because of this. It shows MKP isn't stupid. Even he knew he lost that game before the rerun.
The only reason they rerun the game was because MKP was a fan favourite, BUT winners of tournaments shouldnt be decided by how loud fans cheer for a player. If MKP had a 40 Supply lead with a Terran army right in front of the doors of Partings base with 3 Zealots left on the field, there would be no way they would make a rematch. Period.
StartaleQ and especially Parting got robbed by refs and financial interests behind a TV-Show. I wouldn't be surprised if this "conection" problem wasn't even real and someone just pulled out the internet cable of MKPs computer outside of the booth when they saw he is right about to lose the game. Stuff like this happens whenever money is on the table (i dont talk about the price money), especially in sports in general. Whether we talk about Basketball, Football, Soccer or other sports. History shows there have always been strange Ref' decisions in sports who lead to a different outcome of matches. It's not a problem of Starcraft II it's a problem of sports in general whenever money/investors and viewers are involved.
On April 08 2012 14:26 bcmc wrote: Parting got robbed in one of the sickest PvT's ever.
I wish they zoomed in on Dustin Browder's face when the audience was chanting "We want LAN!".
Give it to us Blizzard. We deserve it.
Honestly, I feel like GOM messed up a HUGE opportunity to campaign for LAN. Like, when everyone was chanting, it was pretty much an angry chant. But the casters shrugged it off and laughed it away. They then proceeded to call out to lizzard for making great games. Now, imagine what could have happened if they put blizzard on the spot.
I'm assuming Khaldor and Wolf had some contracts where they couldn't say some stuff. Sorry for assuming.
They were great and so was blizzard for showing up.
I don't think there are such contracts, I think they did it out of professionalism. Wolf very clearly repeated his info that the disconnect didn't happen through defective computer hardware, but through the internet. He did use the situation to push this issue, but he did it without causing a riot.
But I think, LAN isn't the real answer here. Even with LAN, a computer could lag out (of course it is very unlikely.) The solution should be the option to save a custom game and then play from the saved point.
On April 08 2012 19:26 ULuMuGuLu wrote: I turned off the stream after they decided to rerun the game and parting lost the 2nd one. Didnt watch the rest of the games. It was a complete joke and u could see it in MKPs face that it was a really bitter win for him. He wasnt happy at all and felt sad for parting because of this. It shows MKP isn't stupid. Even he knew he lost that game before the rerun.
The only reason they rerun the game was because MKP was a fan favourite, BUT winners of tournaments shouldnt be decided by how loud fans cheer for a player. If MKP had a 40 Supply lead with a Terran army right in front of the doors of Partings base with 3 Zealots left on the field, there would be no way they would make a rematch. Period.
StartaleQ and especially Parting got robbed by refs and financial interests behind a TV-Show. I wouldn't be surprised if this "conection" problem wasn't even real and someone just pulled out the internet cable of MKPs computer outside of the booth when they saw he is right about to lose the game. Stuff like this happens whenever money is on the table (i dont talk about the price money), especially in sports in general. Whether we talk about Basketball, Football, Soccer or other sports. History shows there have always been strange Ref' decisions in sports who lead to a different outcome of matches. It's not a problem of Starcraft II it's a problem of sports in general whenever money/investors and viewers are involved.
Was aweful 'timely' just as tide finally shifted for good.Connection 'lost' permantly. Nothing suprizes me when it comes to money. People start wars and kill ppl over it what's a pulled rj45?
On April 08 2012 19:26 ULuMuGuLu wrote: I turned off the stream after they decided to rerun the game and parting lost the 2nd one. Didnt watch the rest of the games. It was a complete joke and u could see it in MKPs face that it was a really bitter win for him. He wasnt happy at all and felt sad for parting because of this. It shows MKP isn't stupid. Even he knew he lost that game before the rerun.
The only reason they rerun the game was because MKP was a fan favourite, BUT winners of tournaments shouldnt be decided by how loud fans cheer for a player. If MKP had a 40 Supply lead with a Terran army right in front of the doors of Partings base with 3 Zealots left on the field, there would be no way they would make a rematch. Period.
StartaleQ and especially Parting got robbed by refs and financial interests behind a TV-Show. I wouldn't be surprised if this "conection" problem wasn't even real and someone just pulled out the internet cable of MKPs computer outside of the booth when they saw he is right about to lose the game. Stuff like this happens whenever money is on the table (i dont talk about the price money), especially in sports in general. Whether we talk about Basketball, Football, Soccer or other sports. History shows there have always been strange Ref' decisions in sports who lead to a different outcome of matches. It's not a problem of Starcraft II it's a problem of sports in general whenever money/investors and viewers are involved.
Was aweful 'timely' just as tide finally shifted for good.Connection 'lost' permantly. Nothing suprizes me when it comes to money. People start wars and kill ppl over it what's a pulled rj45?
What is wrong with people like you? Holy shit.
How do you even dare make an accusation like this? Especially to a player who is so humble and respects all progamers. Not to mention they didn't need MarineKing to beat StarTale. They still had 2 amazing players capable of destroying every single StarTale member.
It worked out like this and MKP showed he deserved it by beating Parting in the second time. It's time to get the fuck over it.
Personally I think that MarineKing should have done the honourable thing and admitted that he had lost, it would have given him a lot of respect from everyone not to mention it would have saved blizzard a lot of face. Hopefully this will motivate blizzard to correct this problem in future, be it in HoTS or otherwise.
I think it's easy to say MarineKing should have conceded that game, and in an individual league he may well have done so. But this is a team league, and imagine how upset his team would be with him if he goes against the ruling to the detriment of his team.
I think it was the wrong decision but I am not the referee, and since the referee gets paid to make these awful decisions I think we have to let him do his job. Parting never got a gg out of MKP, but MKP did get one out of Parting. And that, barring only due critique and the hopes for LAN, will be all she wrote.
That lag issue ruined the whole show for me. I was so hyped up and everything was so extremely awesome but when that happened it was like turning off the light @ a rave concert with country music coming out of the speakers. Totally killed it
The show really had momentum..... but it died with that awkwardly long pause.
But yeah... with LAN-support this would never of happened in the first place.
People who critizise MKP should just close their mouth. He had nothing to do with this. It was sad for both PartinG and MKP.
This thing just showed Blizzard that without LAN-support unncessary things like this happen. Must of been really embarrassing for the Blizzard guys in the audience.
I don't get why they refuse to implement it. Is it some sort of money issue? Since they already are so rich you would think they could do it for free out of greatness for the community.
To all the idiots whining at Prime or MKP, stfu and get over yourselves, it is not the players or the teams fault; all they are allowed to do is play, they have no say in the decision making.
It is nobody's fault, and MKP was clearly the better player, even though PartinG played very well. No matter what you say, the game was NOT over, and it was not in a position to call a CLEAR winner, you can speculate all you want, but in that situation a re-game is the absolute best decision.
I was in the crowd when the decision was made. I too feel Parting had that game in the bag BUT let's look at this as it was, a political decision. Had they ruled in favor of Parting, there may have been a drop in viewers because after all MKP is like the moneybag for Prime and a large portion of the spectators are there for him (be real). ALSO, if Parting were the better player, he should have had no problem finishing him off a second time, but he just wasn't up to par - relying heavily on his storm abilities which are AMAZING but a collosus switch up would have put him in a better position. He got outplayed by MKP's splits. MKP is just the superior player all around, and I feel the victory for prime was well deserved, despite the bad ref. call.
I feel like they could've done several other choices. They could've erased PartinG and MKP's match and erase the coaches choice of them (letting the coaches choose them again later if they want) and let two new players play the match that PartinG and MKP was going to play instead. Letting PartinG and MKP rest and letting the coaches and the teams rethink their strategies.
This would take some light off of the controversy and calm things down aswell.
On April 08 2012 19:26 ULuMuGuLu wrote: I turned off the stream after they decided to rerun the game and parting lost the 2nd one. Didnt watch the rest of the games. It was a complete joke and u could see it in MKPs face that it was a really bitter win for him. He wasnt happy at all and felt sad for parting because of this. It shows MKP isn't stupid. Even he knew he lost that game before the rerun.
The only reason they rerun the game was because MKP was a fan favourite, BUT winners of tournaments shouldnt be decided by how loud fans cheer for a player. If MKP had a 40 Supply lead with a Terran army right in front of the doors of Partings base with 3 Zealots left on the field, there would be no way they would make a rematch. Period.
StartaleQ and especially Parting got robbed by refs and financial interests behind a TV-Show. I wouldn't be surprised if this "conection" problem wasn't even real and someone just pulled out the internet cable of MKPs computer outside of the booth when they saw he is right about to lose the game. Stuff like this happens whenever money is on the table (i dont talk about the price money), especially in sports in general. Whether we talk about Basketball, Football, Soccer or other sports. History shows there have always been strange Ref' decisions in sports who lead to a different outcome of matches. It's not a problem of Starcraft II it's a problem of sports in general whenever money/investors and viewers are involved.
Was aweful 'timely' just as tide finally shifted for good.Connection 'lost' permantly. Nothing suprizes me when it comes to money. People start wars and kill ppl over it what's a pulled rj45?
And so the conspiracy theories begin... Anyway I stopped watching after the disconnect because it was 4am, the fact there is no lan or custom match save/load functionality is a shame really.
To be fair on the decision, even 3 minutes earlier marineking did have a huge lead and everyone thought he had one, but parting somehow defended and , as many others have pointed out, parting didn't have everything at the front and did not have anything on the production facilities, so if parting had just moved in, i think he might have loost everything, so i think parting was way ahead but it wasn't completely over...
On April 09 2012 09:23 Elthreann wrote: To be fair on the decision, even 3 minutes earlier marineking did have a huge lead and everyone thought he had one, but parting somehow defended and , as many others have pointed out, parting didn't have everything at the front and did not have anything on the production facilities, so if parting had just moved in, i think he might have loost everything, so i think parting was way ahead but it wasn't completely over...
Besides, SC2 isn't a boxing match. You can't have a decision made on points throughout the game, but based on snapshot of point of disconnection. Parting had 10 times the army size of MKP and several zealots were thrashing MKP's barracks' outside his natural. It was an obvious tipping point (2 marauders vs several zealots, stalkers and even an archon I believe). I have nothing against MKP but some people idolize him slightly over the top, giving him too much credit. Still, the fact remains that he had lost that game there and then. Also, Prime had absolutely nobody left that can take out Parting, Curious AND Bomber. Maru and MKP are by far the best players on the team; okay maybe Byun could've pulled a miracle but I highly doubt it. Creator you say? That guy's multitasking is pretty subpar for GSTL finals' standards (watch last games vs NaDa in GSL, he ripped him a new one with a single medivac on both Dual Sight and Entombed Valley), also there was not a single game where he hadn't had multiple observers rallied to the same spot, just idling there. Don't get me wrong, he's an amazing strategist, after all he was one of the protoss players who spearheaded double forge in PvT in the matchup's darkest times and all, but you can't expect someone with weak multitasking and average control (again, for the level he's competing at) to knock out the likes of Bomber and Parting. STQ got robbed plain and simple.
And no, I'm not a fanboy of anyone involved nor do I wanna make anyone look bad (apart from the ref's who are clearly lacking common sense). Also, I can't help but to think of the possibility of corruption on IPL's staff as someone previously mentioned, unplugging MKP's pc from the router in backstage, especially since their explanation was pretty foggy to anyone who has any clue about networking. The IPL guy said that they had connection on MKP's pc reset every hour instead of default 24 hours, which if you have any clue on the subject, would realise that no router setting such as that one exists. ISP refreshes your IP address every 24 hours by default, not router. And how come only MKP's pc disconnected if what he said was really the case? I have a hard time believing each pc has its own dedicated connection.
TL:DR Ref's decision is made by following martial arts' match rules which makes no sense - there are no points per round in RTS, only the final state of game counts at the point of disconnection. IPL's explanation is nothing short of fabrication of a nigh-impossible issue, which makes people like me prone to consider worst case scenario possiblities, raise their eyebrows. They should've stuck to blaming BNet. And last but not least, I had no intention of trashtalking any players involved in the GSTL finals, I was merely expressing my thoughts on the chances in case of 'what if'.
On April 08 2012 19:26 ULuMuGuLu wrote: I turned off the stream after they decided to rerun the game and parting lost the 2nd one. Didnt watch the rest of the games. It was a complete joke and u could see it in MKPs face that it was a really bitter win for him. He wasnt happy at all and felt sad for parting because of this. It shows MKP isn't stupid. Even he knew he lost that game before the rerun.
The only reason they rerun the game was because MKP was a fan favourite, BUT winners of tournaments shouldnt be decided by how loud fans cheer for a player. If MKP had a 40 Supply lead with a Terran army right in front of the doors of Partings base with 3 Zealots left on the field, there would be no way they would make a rematch. Period.
StartaleQ and especially Parting got robbed by refs and financial interests behind a TV-Show. I wouldn't be surprised if this "conection" problem wasn't even real and someone just pulled out the internet cable of MKPs computer outside of the booth when they saw he is right about to lose the game. Stuff like this happens whenever money is on the table (i dont talk about the price money), especially in sports in general. Whether we talk about Basketball, Football, Soccer or other sports. History shows there have always been strange Ref' decisions in sports who lead to a different outcome of matches. It's not a problem of Starcraft II it's a problem of sports in general whenever money/investors and viewers are involved.
Was aweful 'timely' just as tide finally shifted for good.Connection 'lost' permantly. Nothing suprizes me when it comes to money. People start wars and kill ppl over it what's a pulled rj45?
And so the conspiracy theories begin... Anyway I stopped watching after the disconnect because it was 4am, the fact there is no lan or custom match save/load functionality is a shame really.
yeah i agree... if they can save a replay they should be able to allow you to restart at the point where the disconnect occurs. would solve this issue completely
i am a huge marine king fan and was actually rooting for prime to win but i was really disappointed with the disconnect. it is hard to say whether the refs made the right decision or not but parting played such an amazing game. he had the win in his grasp and then it was just taken away from him at such a pivotal moment. if parting had won and put mkp out of the picture after that game, the rest of the series could have looked completely different. i really hope gom is able to fix all of its computer issues so this doesn't happen again. it's annoying enough when this happens at times when it isn't so important but to have it happen in the finals in arguably the most important game of the series is unacceptable imo
edit; also wish blizzard had implemented a lan system so disconnects wouldn't be such an issue
I thought the opinion piece about Choya was very weak. The article doesn't provide any relevant insight into why it makes sense to send out Choya vs Oz in that situation. Instead it cites numerous examples of when this has happened in the past, in BW, etc., and then it just kind of speculates that there must have been some reason, but what it is remains unclear.
In other words, I read it and felt like I still didn't understand the decision at all, despite the fact that the article defends Choya. I guess the background info puts it into context to some extent, but that's it. I thought it was a horrible decision when I watched the VODs last week, and if it isn't for some reason, I'd be curious to know why.
Also, speaking of fucking stupid, don't use the word fuck in the article if you're just going to bleep it out. What kind of sense does that make?
On April 10 2012 06:11 Vul wrote: I thought the opinion piece about Choya was very weak. The article doesn't provide any relevant insight into why it makes sense to send out Choya vs Oz in that situation. Instead it cites numerous examples of when this has happened in the past, in BW, etc., and then it just kind of speculates that there must have been some reason, but what it is remains unclear.
In other words, I read it and felt like I still didn't understand the decision at all, despite the fact that the article defends Choya. I guess the background info puts it into context to some extent, but that's it. I thought it was a horrible decision when I watched the VODs last week, and if it isn't for some reason, I'd be curious to know why.
Also, speaking of fucking stupid, don't use the word fuck in the article if you're just going to bleep it out. What kind of sense does that make?
yeah i mean there may have been strategy behind the decision but just based off of the VOD it seemed like a split-second decision by Choya wanting to prove himself or something. i was utterly shocked when it happened...even if choya is better in that match-up i think oz would have been the better decision 100% of the time : / ... would have liked to see FXO in the final too : (
On April 09 2012 09:23 Elthreann wrote: To be fair on the decision, even 3 minutes earlier marineking did have a huge lead and everyone thought he had one, but parting somehow defended and , as many others have pointed out, parting didn't have everything at the front and did not have anything on the production facilities, so if parting had just moved in, i think he might have loost everything, so i think parting was way ahead but it wasn't completely over...
Also, Prime had absolutely nobody left that can take out Parting, Curious AND Bomber. Maru and MKP are by far the best players on the team; okay maybe Byun could've pulled a miracle but I highly doubt it. Creator you say?.
This is strange considering Byun and Creator both absolutely raped StarTale last time Prime and ST met. Honestly, the screenshot of army values is so misguiding. Parting had just warped in and as you may know if you actually watch this game, Terrans don't have a similar ability. If that screenshot would've been taken 4 seconds later it would look a lot different.
On April 09 2012 01:24 InoyouS2 wrote: To all the idiots whining at Prime or MKP, stfu and get over yourselves, it is not the players or the teams fault; all they are allowed to do is play, they have no say in the decision making.
It is nobody's fault, and MKP was clearly the better player, even though PartinG played very well. No matter what you say, the game was NOT over, and it was not in a position to call a CLEAR winner, you can speculate all you want, but in that situation a re-game is the absolute best decision.
It isn't about who is the better player, it's about who played better that one match. Marineking's chance to come back was very, very small. It is very likely he had lost that game, and this would have put Startale in a big lead. A regame shuffles the deck and resets the chances for both players. That decision was unfair to Parting and Startale. A decision to give the win to Parting would be somewhat unfair, too, since Marineking had a (very small chance) that Parting totally messes up. I consider the regame decision more unfair than a decision that the game counts as Parting's win.
That is the catch in winner's league: You have a BO1, so you can use prepared strategies which only work once.