Foreigners crushed on day one, but Acer.Bly offers consolation at the end.
While some hoped that Heart of the Swarm would be a reset button, it looked to be more of a fast-forward toward the demise of non-Korean players on the first day of MLG Dallas. The foreigners struggled to win even a single map, much less look like they could win an actual series. The aggregate map score for foreigners against Koreans was 1 - 12 at the end of the night, with HuK vs. Innovation, BabyKnight vs. Leenock, and State vs. Parting all ending in 3 - 0 sweeps. None of the games in those series were even particularly close, adding onto the despair of those who hoped that the Korean hegemony might be weakened.
However, in the very last series of the night, Acer.Bly gave fans reason to believe that it wasn't entirely doom and gloom ahead. As Bly went up against a much-hyped KT_Flash, many considered the WCS Ukraine champion as just another victim to be sacrificed to the Brood War legend. And looking at just games one and two, where Bly was beaten thoroughly from start to finish, that sort of dimissive attitude would have been appropriate. With Bly down 0 - 2, the viewers at home were already starting to pile dirt on Bly's grave. But little did they know that Bly was readying himself to put on the performance of the night in game three.
At this moment, international fans suddenly decided they loved fungal growth again.
Flash opened with a cheese rush, something he has almost always done at least once a series since his Brood War days. This time it came in the form of a reaper-bunker rush, looking to use the mobility of the new reapers to test Bly's defenses. Bly responded more than just well, minimizing his damage taken from the rush, and also using speedlings to hunt down and kill off all of Flash's reapers. When Flash attempted to follow up by going blue flame hellions, Bly showed yet another great defense, cornering and killing off Flash's hellions while losing a trivial amount of drones.
As impressive as his defensive maneuvers were, Bly's best move was yet to come. Wielding roach-infestor against Flash's mech, Bly managed to sneak five infestors into Flash's main and natural. When the time came for Flash to move out, Bly successfully delayed and chipped away at Flash's main force while simultaneously deploying infested Terrans across Flash's mining bases. Stuck between having to maintain his mech push's momentum and ridding the pesky infestors from his main, Flash failed to do either, having his push worn down while the unapprehended infestors continued to wreak havoc in his base. While Flash was able to use his signature turtling abilities to stay in the game for a considerable length of time, the tide had already turned, and he GG'd out to the eventual brood lords.
Flash looks both ashamed and exhausted after losing game three to Bly.
Having drawn blood from the Brood War legend, Bly tried to deepen the wound in game four. He very nearly succeeded, but unfortunately for Bly, he was just barely thwarted at the very end. After showing impressive defense against Flash's drop play, Bly successfully rushed to hive off three bases to get very fast ultralisks. Despite being down in population at several points, Bly's cost efficient engagements saw him overrun Flash's armies multiple times. However, Flash kept his eye on the big picture, and successfully denied Bly any extra expansions while making sure to hang on to his own fourth. Bly eventually ran out of steam in the end, and was forced to tap out.
At the end of the day, the score still says Bly 1, Flash 3, and Bly will have to spend the rest of the tournament as a spectator and not a competitor. But by making a player nicknamed "God" look mortal, he's still earned one damn good consolation prize.
Korean vs. Korean matches end in surprising sweeps.
When MarineKingPrime vs. NSH_jjakji and LG-IM_Seed vs. SKT_Rain were drawn as Ro32 matches, it was hard not to be excited at the prospect of tightly contested, high-level series between some of the best players at each race. Yet, the reality couldn't have been more different, as both series ended in one-sided, 3 - 0 dismantlings.
Rain, one of the most skilled PvP players in WoL, continued his mirror-match dominance in HotS by taking out the former GSL champion Seed. Their second game on Akilon Wastes ended up being notable for all the wrong reasons, as Seed mistook the carrier launch upgrade for the phoenix range upgrade in an embarassing loss. In an otherwise even phoenix-war, having the wrong upgrade cost Seed dearly.
While Seed was bounced from the Ro32, another one-time GSL champion in Jjakji had much more success. Going up against fan favorite and former MLG champion MarineKing, Jjakji won in a surprisingly easy 3 - 0 rout. The first two games consisted of Jjakji consecutively stuffing almost identical marine-tank pushes from MKP, whereas a successful marine-tank push of his own helped him close the series out in game three.
USA can't catch a break in Foreigner vs. Foreigner matches.
While the USA seemed to have a decent shot at sending a player to the Ro16 after landing two Zerg vs. Zergs against non-Korean opponents, it just was not meant to be. ROOT.ViBE fell 1 - 3 to Taiwan's Gammania.Sen, while EG.Suppy.RC lost by the same score to the Netherlands' Liquid`Ret - incidentally after the two Americans had been helping each other practice for their respective matches. With State losing to PartinG as well on the day, that leaves just Goswser and Minigun to represent the host nation in the tournament.
Game One - Daybreak: ViBE opened with the standard two-base mutas for HotS, while Sen delayed his tech to get roaches early on and a fast third base. Unfortunately for Sen, he wasn't able to get anything done with his roach aggression and paid the price once ViBE got his mutalisks out. Facing some seriously late anti-air tech, ViBe was able to slowly pick his opponent apart with mutas and lings.
Game Two - Cloud Kingdom: ViBE attempted to go for a similar two base lair build as game one, but couldn't hold out against a huge two base zergling and baneling bust from Sen.
Game Three - Akilon Wastes: The two Zergs played the first parallel game of the series, both going ling-bane early on while trying to tech up to mutas. A moment of inattentiveness from ViBE allowed Sen to get the better of him in the ling-bane wars, allowing him to cancel ViBE's third base while he got his own up safely. That advantage snowballed for Sen, and he triumphed in the subsequent aerial battle for the GG.
Game Four - Star Station: ViBE went for a risky double evolution chamber build to get fast 1/1 upgrades for his zerglings and banelings. However, he wasn't able to do any significant to damage to Sen who was teching up to mutalisks. ViBE tried to catch up by going infestors, but he had already fallen too far behind and was eventually crushed by Sen's mutalisks and roaches.
Game One - Whirlwind: Innovation opened the game with a fast mine drop that was deflected. The game evened out from there as his 2 base bio pressure wasn't able to do significant damage to Huk. Huk moved out on the map once his Colossi and Blink stalkers were done while at the same time as Innovation tried a drop. With no defense up, Innovatin took the main, while Huk tried to counter-attack, but failed.
Game Two - Cloud Kingdom: After a series of early game exchanges, Huk was able to take map control with blnk stalker observer. He went for an aggressive 2 base pressure with it, but was easily foiled and forced all the way back. After getting 4 vikings for Huk’s colossus, Innovation ran him over with a superior marine-medivac-marauder composition.
Game Three - Akilon Wastes: Innovation opened with a CC first build, opening himself up for some fast zealot-stalker pressure. HuK took his expansion, and then followed with more pressure off 4-gates to kill more SCVs. He then went for a third attack with a 6 gates, killing even more scvs but getting pushed back by a stim and medivac backed Innovation. After that Huk went for chargelots, blink stalkers, and DTs, able to kill even more SCVs off. However, that was still not enough damage in the end, as Innovation was just quietly building up a powerful army, and HuK had neglected to make splash damage whatsoever. Innovation moved out with mass MMM and crushed stalker/zealot for an easy victory.
Game One - Daybreak: Rain opened two-gate mothership core against Seed's three-gate, and was forced to give up his nexus after his photon overcharge ran out. Still, it wasn't too big a loss for Rain, and he just rebuilt his nexus as Seed added one as well, making the game fairly even as it went two-base vs two-base. Both players then went into air tech, making phoenixes and void-rays.
Rain decisively out-dueled Seed in the air, effectively eliminating his opponent's air presense. This forced Seed to go for desperation attack with his ground units, but Rain easily held off the attack to force the GG.
Game Two - Akilon Wastes: With both players going for mass phoenix off two bases, Seed made a gigantic mistake by getting the interceptor launch upgrade instead of the phoenix range upgrade. By the time he noticed, it was already too late as Rain ripped him apart in the deciding air battle to take the game.
Game Three - Neo Planet S: Seed decided to go for a one base, blink stalker all-in against Rain's fast expand. Rain was able to defend easily with the help of immortals, finishing a 3 - 0 sweep.
Game One - Daybreak: BabyK and Leenock both started with unorthodox openings. BabyK started with a gas first into MSC + zealot pressure against Leenock’s 2 base. Leenock went for a fast overlord speed and ling speed into a 2 base lair build. He would then get a third and hydra den to follow up. BabyK moved out and killed Leenock's third, but lost his force when his mothership core was sniped before it could complete mass recall. Leenock then transitioned from new zerg unit to new zerg unit constantly putting pressure on BabyK as he went for swarmhosts into infestors into vipers. BabyK would make a small comeback after catching a large portion of Leenock's swarmhosts out in the open, but Leenock was too far ahead and just overwhelmed BabyK with ultralisks in the end.
Game Two - Cloud Kingdom: This game was more standard by BabyK as he went for a forge FE. Leenock went for the same 2 base ling and overlord speed into hydras. The game would move along until Leenock was on four bases and BabyK on three. Leenock transitioned to Swarmhosts and sieged BabyK for the rest of the game. The pressure was too much as BabyK desperately tried to defend and find an opening. After losing his third and having no hope of killing Leenocks' army, BabyK had to GG.
Game Three - Akilon Flats: Babyk opened with gate first while Leenock went hatch first then gas. BabyK did his MSC and zealot pressure again while Leenock used a similar build to games 1 and 2. However instead of a third and hydra den, Leenock went for a fast roach warren. BabyK went for some oracle harass combined with gateway pressure, but his gateway units got caught in the middle by speed roaches while his oracles did too little damage in Leenock's main. From there Leenock just attacked head on into BabyK's base until he forced the GG.
Game One - Star Station: Both players decided to play relatively passively, letting each other build up muta-ling off of three bases. Ret ended up taking a big advatange in both mutalisk and ling count after the first major engagement, and he was able to use his lings to kill off Suppy's spire as well as several drones. Suppy tapped out after a last ditch muta counter attack failed.
Game Two - Daybreak: Game two followed a similar pattern as the first, with both players going up fairly evenly to three base mutas despite some back and forth with lings and banes. Once again, Ret got the better of Suppy in the major air battle, but a careless giveaway from Ret evened up the mutalisks counts. However, it didn't matter as Suppy initiated another battle near Ret's base, where Ret was able to able to win convincing and take the game.
Game Three - Neo Planet S: Suppy gave the series a sudden change of pace, going for a fast pool for a zergling and offensive spine crawler all in. Ret was in a difficult spot after having gone hatchery first, and opted to sacrifice his main and go for a drone and zergling counter attack. When that failed, he GG'd out.
Game Four - Cloud Kingdom: Game four saw the series return to the three base muta wars. Once again, Ret was able to get a leg up on Suppy in mutalisk count, while also using his speedlings to cause economic damage. Ret eventually rolled Suppy with mass mutalisks.
Game One - Cloud Kingdom: Both players opened with similar builds, with MKP having a faster gas than Jjakji. This let MKP tech faster while Jjakji went for a faster CC. After a failed hellion drop, MKP transitioned into a marine-tank push off of one base, expanding behind it. Jjakji already had tanks and a bunker ready, and held off the attack with repair while simultaneously killing SCVs with a hellion from of his own. MKP tried to get back into the game with banshee harass, was too far behind economically and was overrun.
Game Two - Akilon Flats: Both players used the same builds as game 1 as MKP tried the hellion drop again, to no avail.. Jjakji again went for a counter hellion drop as MKP pushed with marines and tanks. Jjakji held off the attack once more, giving him a big lead. While MKP managed to go up to three orbitals, he just didn't have the army supply to hold off Jjakji's frontal push + drop.
Game Three - Daybreak: Jjakji started with a CC first, while MKP went rax into expand, and then a third CC upon seeing Jjakji's fast expand. Jjakji got faster tanks for a two base push while MKP went for double engineering bay and medivacs. Jjakji successfully exploited MKP's weak timing with a push, damaging heavily with a push. MKP was able to eventually clear away Jjakji's contain, leaving him behind in economy and army but ahead on upgrades. With both players on three bases, Jjakji went for a double pronged attack with a push on MKP's third and a drop in the main. This attack did a ton of damage to MKP, also killing a sensor tower to allow a follow-up doom drop later. Jjakji was able to keep dropping MKP and causing damage until he finally forced MKP to go for a desperation counter attack, after which he conceded the series.
Game One - Akilon Wastes: State opened with a fast expansion, but ended up losing it to good gateway pressure from PartinG. PartinG then followed up with some dark templar harass, dealing damage while getting up his own expansion safely. With a significant advantage, PartinG built up an army of gateway units and void rays that was good for the win.
Game Two - Neo Planet S: PartinG simply straight up outmicroed State in early game zealot-stalker-msc skirmishes to take a quick win.
Game Three - Daybreak: State tried to make PartinG pay for fast expanding with both gateway pressure and dark templars, but wasn't able to do enough damage to avoid falling behind. PartinG then transitioned into two-stargate play and attacked with a void-ray + gateway unit army to end the series.
Game One - Neo Planet S: Flash opened with reaper against Bly’s hatch first and went for some bunker aggression. It was effective as he successfully got the bunker up and killed some lings and a queen. Bly tried to go for 2 base 1/1 roaches while Flash went for bio play, using drops to damage Bly's economy severely. Flash compounded his lead by continuing to do more damage with drops, and transitioned into mass MMM supported by some widow mines. Inevitably, Bly was overrun by too much of everything.
Game Two - Daybreak: Flash opened CC first against Bly’s hatch first. Bly went for some ling pressure to get some damage and scouting done. His follow up was a large roach attack, but Flash held it off without too much trouble and took a large economic lead. Flash then countered with hellions and banshees, killing a ton of drones as Bly scrambled to hold it off. With much damage inflicted, Flash established his third, built up a large army, and pushed across the map to receive the GG.
Game Three - Akilon Wastes: Flash started with an 8-8-8 reaper-bunker rush against Bly’s hatch first build. Flash did some damage, but just not enough before Bly was able to break him with queens and lings. Using speedlings, Bly chased down and killed all the reapers and delayed Flash's expansion. Meanwhile, Flash followed up by going for blue flame hellion, catching Bly somewhat off guard. However, good control from Bly allowed him to block the hellions without taking much damage.
Flash moved onto take his third base while going to mech while Bly moved to a roach based composition. Bly also teched to burrowed infestors, and in a pivotal moment of the game, was able to sneak some into Flash’s main. As Flash established four bases and pushed out with a max mech army, Bly stalled him in the middle with roaches while going for a triple infested Terran attack at Flash' expansions. Following that, good engagements with roaches and infestors were enough to take out Flash's army.
His army wiped out and his economy hurting poorly, Flash looked to be in a bad position. However, he made what looked like a remarkable near comeback by just turtling up and relying on the power of orbital command centers. However, Bly slowly teched up to brood lords, and Flash GG'd out after seeing broodlings rain down on his ground-only army.
Game Four - Cloud Kingdom: Flash opened with a CC first while Bly stuck to the hatch first. Bly went for the fast double evo and Flash went into bio medivac play. Bly took his third and went for lair as Flash Flash pushed forward for some bio-medivac pressure. Flash aggressively put on drop pressure on, but Bly was able to deflect it well and tech up to hive and infestors. At the same time, Bly kept trying to go for ling counter-attacks on Flash's third.
Bly successfully achived his goal of rushing to hive and ultralisks, but found himself down on supply. Flash pushes out and killed Bly's fourth base, but was able to then win a major battle with his 3/3 ultra-ling against Flash's still 2/2 ground. Bly then added vipers to his composition, and put the hurt on Flash's third base. With both players on four bases, Flash pushed out to kill Bly's fourth, at the cost of losing his army to an ultralisk-viper-infestor engage. While it looked bad at the time, Flash's insistence on cutting off Bly's resources would pay off in the end. While Bly managed to kill yet another one of Flash's armies with his cost effective Ultralisk armies, his inability to take a fourth saw him ran out of steam, and Flash eventually ground Bly down until he had no units left.
The arrival of Kespa en masse to sc2 is the nail in the coffin for any foreign hopes in the future. The dismal state of zerg in hots and the fact that most top foreigners are zerg is just kicking dirt on the grave. Stephano should be able to reach the quarters but he'll be all alone.
On March 16 2013 17:08 Evil_Sheep wrote: The arrival of Kespa en masse to sc2 is the nail in the coffin for any foreign hopes in the future. The dismal state of zerg in hots and the fact that most top foreigners are zerg is just kicking dirt on the grave. Stephano should be able to reach the quarters but he'll be all alone.
The reason there are so many 'top foreign zergs' is simply because they are zerg. Where do you think the term patch zerg comes from? Also how do you conclude that zerg is in a dismal state? The game just came out. David Kim stated just the other day that globally the game is looking very balanced.
On March 16 2013 17:08 Evil_Sheep wrote: The arrival of Kespa en masse to sc2 is the nail in the coffin for any foreign hopes in the future. The dismal state of zerg in hots and the fact that most top foreigners are zerg is just kicking dirt on the grave. Stephano should be able to reach the quarters but he'll be all alone.
The reason there are so many 'top foreign zergs' is simply because they are zerg. Where do you think the term patch zerg comes from? Also how do you conclude that zerg is in a dismal state? The game just came out. David Kim stated just the other day that globally the game is looking very balanced.
If David Kim said it, it must be true. Just like when they say LAN is not needed, or discussion channels are too 2002.
On March 16 2013 17:08 Evil_Sheep wrote: The arrival of Kespa en masse to sc2 is the nail in the coffin for any foreign hopes in the future. The dismal state of zerg in hots and the fact that most top foreigners are zerg is just kicking dirt on the grave. Stephano should be able to reach the quarters but he'll be all alone.
The reason there are so many 'top foreign zergs' is simply because they are zerg. Where do you think the term patch zerg comes from?
Trolls.
Also how do you conclude that zerg is in a dismal state? The game just came out. David Kim stated just the other day that globally the game is looking very balanced.
It's common knowledge zerg are the weakest race, even top korean protosses and terrans have admitted in interviews zerg is too weak. And in that same interview you mention, David Kim also said widow mines are too strong and will probably be nerfed, along with possibly void rays.
In any case I wasn't looking to start a balance discussion, it's simply a fact that zergs are weak in hots currently and that a large number of foreign pros are zerg, a fact which was very beneficial in 2012 but so far in HotS is the complete opposite.
Flash vs Bly was really a nice series, but am I the only one who felt uncomfortable with the extremely biased casting. They stressed every good move of Bly and pointed out how hard it is to execute or how great his decision was, yet whenever Flash did something good, it seems like nothing noteworthy. Now I can understand that a matchup like this might be casted biased, but that is outright disrespectful to all the hard work Flash has put in to achieve the level of skill he was demonstrating yesterday.
edit: apart from that, the show was great. Though as a european watching it at 5am, I wish they would keep the delays down. what are the doing with all their experience and budget anyways.
On March 16 2013 18:52 JustPassingBy wrote: Flash vs Bly was really a nice series, but am I the only one who felt uncomfortable with the extremely biased casting. They stressed every good move of Bly and pointed out how hard it is to execute or how great his decision was, yet whenever Flash did something good, it seems like nothing noteworthy. Now I can understand that a matchup like this might be casted biased, but that is outright disrespectful to all the hard work Flash has put in to achieve the level of skill he was demonstrating yesterday.
edit: apart from that, the show was great. Though as a european watching it at 5am, I wish they would keep the delays down. what are the doing with all their experience and budget anyways.
In fairness, the casters were constantly talking about Flash being god and a brilliant player and so on.
I don't really think it's fair to make yesterday about foreigners vs. koreans. Is that really the end-all-storyline of these tournaments? After all, the best match happened between a foreigner and a korean, bly vs. flash provided by far the most entertainment of the night.
Every game between Koreans played out as one-sided curb-stomps with mistakes galore from the losing player. What we saw was the effects of a new game. Players unaccustomed to the what-and-when of HotS tend to make basic mistakes that for the most part were gone from WoL. The losing players will, to a much larger degree than in WoL, tend to look really bad when loosing. Remember SC2 from 2010 and 2011, that's what were faced with. It ain't pretty, though hopefully it will be more entertaining on day two.
By making headlines like this, you're encouraging idiots whose ideas about the game are influenced more from what is being said about the game than how the games actually play out. I suppose that may be inevitable in the echo-chambers of LRs and reddit, but there's no reason to lead them on.
On March 16 2013 18:52 JustPassingBy wrote: Flash vs Bly was really a nice series, but am I the only one who felt uncomfortable with the extremely biased casting. They stressed every good move of Bly and pointed out how hard it is to execute or how great his decision was, yet whenever Flash did something good, it seems like nothing noteworthy. Now I can understand that a matchup like this might be casted biased, but that is outright disrespectful to all the hard work Flash has put in to achieve the level of skill he was demonstrating yesterday.
edit: apart from that, the show was great. Though as a european watching it at 5am, I wish they would keep the delays down. what are the doing with all their experience and budget anyways.
Is this a joke? Bias is calling one player "God", not praising good moves by players.
On March 16 2013 17:08 Evil_Sheep wrote: The arrival of Kespa en masse to sc2 is the nail in the coffin for any foreign hopes in the future. The dismal state of zerg in hots and the fact that most top foreigners are zerg is just kicking dirt on the grave. Stephano should be able to reach the quarters but he'll be all alone.
I think you are wrong there Ret is way better in hots than stephano is
On March 16 2013 18:52 JustPassingBy wrote: Flash vs Bly was really a nice series, but am I the only one who felt uncomfortable with the extremely biased casting. They stressed every good move of Bly and pointed out how hard it is to execute or how great his decision was, yet whenever Flash did something good, it seems like nothing noteworthy. Now I can understand that a matchup like this might be casted biased, but that is outright disrespectful to all the hard work Flash has put in to achieve the level of skill he was demonstrating yesterday.
edit: apart from that, the show was great. Though as a european watching it at 5am, I wish they would keep the delays down. what are the doing with all their experience and budget anyways.
Is this a joke? Bias is calling one player "God", not praising good moves by players.
I hated the casting for this series. Every 30 secs they were going on about Flash's great skill, and the fact that not-being-ahead is basically being behind, and that you cannot afford to blabla against such a player, etc. It was really poor casting. I love Flash, loved him on BW and loved him still, he is indeed a great player, what they say is kinda true... but please stop talking only about that when casting ? Try to cast it more like if it were any other top player ? We don't need to hear every 2 minutes how good Flash is and hey his nickname is God ! - WE KNOW.
Won't even mention the fact that they tried to shout at the same time during half the battles. meh
On March 16 2013 18:52 JustPassingBy wrote: Flash vs Bly was really a nice series, but am I the only one who felt uncomfortable with the extremely biased casting. They stressed every good move of Bly and pointed out how hard it is to execute or how great his decision was, yet whenever Flash did something good, it seems like nothing noteworthy. Now I can understand that a matchup like this might be casted biased, but that is outright disrespectful to all the hard work Flash has put in to achieve the level of skill he was demonstrating yesterday.
edit: apart from that, the show was great. Though as a european watching it at 5am, I wish they would keep the delays down. what are the doing with all their experience and budget anyways.
You think they were biased against Flash and not hyping him enough? Really?
We must have watched two different series, the casting in conjunction with the Flash fanboys in the LR thread almost managed to get me annoyed.
MLG is much better at not being out right biased like all the European tournaments. I can't listen to Khaldor or any European caster other than Apollo when its Foreigner v Korean. Most dreamhacks have casters cheering for foreigner players.
Too many casters in eSports are too vocal about their preferences and show their bias. I'm a Protoss caster so I like Protoss players, and since I'm European/American I am going to be cheering for them during my casts. Can't they just be objective about the play and give good insights? Again saying MLG is much better at this than most other tournaments.
On March 16 2013 17:08 Evil_Sheep wrote: The arrival of Kespa en masse to sc2 is the nail in the coffin for any foreign hopes in the future. The dismal state of zerg in hots and the fact that most top foreigners are zerg is just kicking dirt on the grave. Stephano should be able to reach the quarters but he'll be all alone.
The reason there are so many 'top foreign zergs' is simply because they are zerg. Where do you think the term patch zerg comes from?
Also how do you conclude that zerg is in a dismal state? The game just came out. David Kim stated just the other day that globally the game is looking very balanced.
It's common knowledge zerg are the weakest race, even top korean protosses and terrans have admitted in interviews zerg is too weak. And in that same interview you mention, David Kim also said widow mines are too strong and will probably be nerfed, along with possibly void rays.
In any case I wasn't looking to start a balance discussion, it's simply a fact that zergs are weak in hots currently and that a large number of foreign pros are zerg, a fact which was very beneficial in 2012 but so far in HotS is the complete opposite.
HotS will be the death of most of those patch-zergs. No more hiding behind infestor broodlord, there's going to be actual skill needed to play Zerg.
half my excitement for this tournament was removed by the fact its single elim. I wouldnt have even turned up since some of the foreigners are coming in from korea just to play agaisnt life and there are a few other games that will have a devasting sweep in favour of the korean player. I just think double elim helps storylines so much.
On March 16 2013 17:08 Evil_Sheep wrote: The arrival of Kespa en masse to sc2 is the nail in the coffin for any foreign hopes in the future. The dismal state of zerg in hots and the fact that most top foreigners are zerg is just kicking dirt on the grave. Stephano should be able to reach the quarters but he'll be all alone.
The reason there are so many 'top foreign zergs' is simply because they are zerg. Where do you think the term patch zerg comes from? Also how do you conclude that zerg is in a dismal state? The game just came out. David Kim stated just the other day that globally the game is looking very balanced.
If David Kim said it, it must be true. Just like when they say LAN is not needed, or discussion channels are too 2002.
LAN still isn't needed though
Would be nice, but it hasn't been necessary so far.
On March 16 2013 18:52 JustPassingBy wrote: Flash vs Bly was really a nice series, but am I the only one who felt uncomfortable with the extremely biased casting. They stressed every good move of Bly and pointed out how hard it is to execute or how great his decision was, yet whenever Flash did something good, it seems like nothing noteworthy. Now I can understand that a matchup like this might be casted biased, but that is outright disrespectful to all the hard work Flash has put in to achieve the level of skill he was demonstrating yesterday.
edit: apart from that, the show was great. Though as a european watching it at 5am, I wish they would keep the delays down. what are the doing with all their experience and budget anyways.
You think they were biased against Flash and not hyping him enough? Really?
We must have watched two different series, the casting in conjunction with the Flash fanboys in the LR thread almost managed to get me annoyed.
Flash is known for producing caster bias.
Algonside every possible action known to humankind
Was so happy for Jjakji to pull it off even if I knew that he was doing pretty damn well in the beta under 3 different accounts The win against MKP was just so simply done, "oh you are doing the exact same thing again? I guess I do the same thing as I did earlier to beat you again then"
MKP looked so lost.
On March 16 2013 23:05 Cattlecruiser wrote: MLG is much better at not being out right biased like all the European tournaments. I can't listen to Khaldor or any European caster other than Apollo when its Foreigner v Korean. Most dreamhacks have casters cheering for foreigner players.
Too many casters in eSports are too vocal about their preferences and show their bias. I'm a Protoss caster so I like Protoss players, and since I'm European/American I am going to be cheering for them during my casts. Can't they just be objective about the play and give good insights? Again saying MLG is much better at this than most other tournaments.
Every foreigner caster is biased towards the foreigner, they ALL suffer from it. And I find it really surprising that you didn't find Day9 or Husky to be really biased, since I can't remember who was down 80 supply against a korean but there was still hope. (3sec later he gg)
I find Day9, TB and Khaldor to be the ones that suffers from it the most. But with Day9 it's actually hard to listen to him cast, the others at least acknowledge the opponent.
On March 16 2013 18:52 JustPassingBy wrote: Flash vs Bly was really a nice series, but am I the only one who felt uncomfortable with the extremely biased casting. They stressed every good move of Bly and pointed out how hard it is to execute or how great his decision was, yet whenever Flash did something good, it seems like nothing noteworthy. Now I can understand that a matchup like this might be casted biased, but that is outright disrespectful to all the hard work Flash has put in to achieve the level of skill he was demonstrating yesterday.
'Bly is equal with flash and that means flash is ahead'
I just watched this and I can see where you're coming from but they spent just as much time talking about how perfect Flash is, how he can keep units alive forever, his unit control is immaculate etc. Even when Bly was killing his reapers they were talking about Flash's perfect micro.
They had to chat up Bly a bit when he was 2-0 down to keep the audience interested.
The thing that annoys me is the 'he's well known for some skill or another', I don't think it should matter. I could understand after a game, 'he's well known for his excellent micro and he's just shown us why' but in the middle of a game while he's microing, if you aren't saying 'LOOK AT THAT MICRO' then what does it matter if he's well known for it or not?
On March 16 2013 23:05 Cattlecruiser wrote: MLG is much better at not being out right biased like all the European tournaments. I can't listen to Khaldor or any European caster other than Apollo when its Foreigner v Korean. Most dreamhacks have casters cheering for foreigner players.
Too many casters in eSports are too vocal about their preferences and show their bias. I'm a Protoss caster so I like Protoss players, and since I'm European/American I am going to be cheering for them during my casts. Can't they just be objective about the play and give good insights? Again saying MLG is much better at this than most other tournaments.
When you have favorites it's hard not to get genuinely excited, after all they are fans just like you and me. I don't think it's a bad thing either, showing your passion for the game/player/race is awesome.
On March 16 2013 17:08 Evil_Sheep wrote: The arrival of Kespa en masse to sc2 is the nail in the coffin for any foreign hopes in the future. The dismal state of zerg in hots and the fact that most top foreigners are zerg is just kicking dirt on the grave. Stephano should be able to reach the quarters but he'll be all alone.
The reason there are so many 'top foreign zergs' is simply because they are zerg. Where do you think the term patch zerg comes from?
Also how do you conclude that zerg is in a dismal state? The game just came out. David Kim stated just the other day that globally the game is looking very balanced.
It's common knowledge zerg are the weakest race, even top korean protosses and terrans have admitted in interviews zerg is too weak. And in that same interview you mention, David Kim also said widow mines are too strong and will probably be nerfed, along with possibly void rays.
In any case I wasn't looking to start a balance discussion, it's simply a fact that zergs are weak in hots currently and that a large number of foreign pros are zerg, a fact which was very beneficial in 2012 but so far in HotS is the complete opposite.
Korean Terrans and Protoss also said Infestors are no issue and that Zerg is weak. And not many changes in that direction were needed to make Zerg overpowered. Zerg will always have a slower start, due to their design and the Zerg players are not really helping with being stubborn when it comes to changing things up and like to be carried by the wind. (Rumors and balance changes, latest example the rumor that the Hydra speed upgrade changed the way Hydras work, which is only true if you have a horrible creep spread and overlord control)
But I have no worries with HotS. WoL got messed up by this situation, but Blizzard learned alot from this. Let us see if they do it right this time. Because HotS looks exactly like WoL release to me with missing amulet.
Hope today people won't jinx the matches, by saying "uh 2 Koreans this will be a good fight."
On March 16 2013 18:52 JustPassingBy wrote: Flash vs Bly was really a nice series, but am I the only one who felt uncomfortable with the extremely biased casting. They stressed every good move of Bly and pointed out how hard it is to execute or how great his decision was, yet whenever Flash did something good, it seems like nothing noteworthy. Now I can understand that a matchup like this might be casted biased, but that is outright disrespectful to all the hard work Flash has put in to achieve the level of skill he was demonstrating yesterday.
edit: apart from that, the show was great. Though as a european watching it at 5am, I wish they would keep the delays down. what are the doing with all their experience and budget anyways.
They treat the person who is playing vs Flash like the special kid who just entered the 4th quarter of a basketball game. Every time he touches the ball its an accomplishment, and if he shoots and scores...hold onto your butts. It does get a little ridiculous =\
It's a pretty sad state for foreign progaming when all we have to brag about is taking ONE game off a korean pro (out of 13) in our own tournaments ...
On March 16 2013 23:05 Cattlecruiser wrote: MLG is much better at not being out right biased like all the European tournaments. I can't listen to Khaldor or any European caster other than Apollo when its Foreigner v Korean. Most dreamhacks have casters cheering for foreigner players.
Too many casters in eSports are too vocal about their preferences and show their bias. I'm a Protoss caster so I like Protoss players, and since I'm European/American I am going to be cheering for them during my casts. Can't they just be objective about the play and give good insights? Again saying MLG is much better at this than most other tournaments.
(Maybe bit too much Flash cocksucking).
When you have favorites it's hard not to get genuinely excited, after all they are fans just like you and me. I don't think it's a bad thing either, showing your passion for the game/player/race is awesome.
I understand casting like that for a certain city or country. For events like the World Cup, FSN Detroit having Wing's bias, or sports radio having city bias it shouldn't be a surprise. Most nationally broadcasted and all internationally broadcasted events have little to no bias, or try extremely hard to hide it. Things that these casters say about foreigners while they are getting crushed is ridiculous. I guess I'm expecting too much professionalism.
On March 16 2013 23:05 Cattlecruiser wrote: MLG is much better at not being out right biased like all the European tournaments. I can't listen to Khaldor or any European caster other than Apollo when its Foreigner v Korean. Most dreamhacks have casters cheering for foreigner players.
Too many casters in eSports are too vocal about their preferences and show their bias. I'm a Protoss caster so I like Protoss players, and since I'm European/American I am going to be cheering for them during my casts. Can't they just be objective about the play and give good insights? Again saying MLG is much better at this than most other tournaments.
(Maybe bit too much Flash cocksucking).
Every foreigner caster is biased towards the foreigner, they ALL suffer from it. And I find it really surprising that you didn't find Day9 or Husky to be really biased, since I can't remember who was down 80 supply against a korean but there was still hope. (3sec later he gg)
I find Day9, TB and Khaldor to be the ones that suffers from it the most. But with Day9 it's actually hard to listen to him cast, the others at least acknowledge the opponent.
Yeah I've heard their bias, it is sickening for NA players vs Anyone. (Good thing that none of them will make it past the first round) However, I've yet to hear anyone worse than Khaldor or TakeTV guy. I like certain players, teams, and race but I like them because of the good plays and strategies that they came up with. Can't we get past the clan stream mentality? The community needs to for eSports to grow into anything more than commonly labeled "pseudo sport".
I'm a bit worried about Huk, Puma was released for his lack of achievements maybe the same fate awaits our canadian protoss. Things need to be figured out for zerg I guess. Zvp lategame is a huge issue and mines are maybe a bit too strong
On March 16 2013 18:52 JustPassingBy wrote: Flash vs Bly was really a nice series, but am I the only one who felt uncomfortable with the extremely biased casting. They stressed every good move of Bly and pointed out how hard it is to execute or how great his decision was, yet whenever Flash did something good, it seems like nothing noteworthy. Now I can understand that a matchup like this might be casted biased, but that is outright disrespectful to all the hard work Flash has put in to achieve the level of skill he was demonstrating yesterday.
edit: apart from that, the show was great. Though as a european watching it at 5am, I wish they would keep the delays down. what are the doing with all their experience and budget anyways.
Is this a joke? Bias is calling one player "God", not praising good moves by players.
I hated the casting for this series. Every 30 secs they were going on about Flash's great skill, and the fact that not-being-ahead is basically being behind, and that you cannot afford to blabla against such a player, etc. It was really poor casting. I love Flash, loved him on BW and loved him still, he is indeed a great player, what they say is kinda true... but please stop talking only about that when casting ? Try to cast it more like if it were any other top player ? We don't need to hear every 2 minutes how good Flash is and hey his nickname is God ! - WE KNOW.
Won't even mention the fact that they tried to shout at the same time during half the battles. meh
+1, it's terribly boring. Just talking about they game itself should be enough to explain the quality of each players.
I have the feeling that, as they encourage in SOTG or ITG, casters are now only concentrating on "storyline" rather than commentating starcraft.
On March 17 2013 00:37 ChApFoU wrote: It's a pretty sad state for foreign progaming when all we have to brag about is taking ONE game off a korean pro (out of 13) in our own tournaments ...
On March 16 2013 17:08 Evil_Sheep wrote: The arrival of Kespa en masse to sc2 is the nail in the coffin for any foreign hopes in the future. The dismal state of zerg in hots and the fact that most top foreigners are zerg is just kicking dirt on the grave. Stephano should be able to reach the quarters but he'll be all alone.
I hate this sort of pessimism but it's probably for good cause here and I find myself similarly pessimistic for a few reasons.
From the bits and pieces of information I've gathered from reading these forums, the arrival of the KESPA players and their teams has led to, directly or indirectly, a further professionalization of team houses and training regiments in Korea. EG hired SKT's old coach, for example, and is apparently, at its Korean gaming house, instituting a variety of fairly strict measures related to practice time, streaming, etc. If foreigners continue on the same track, where most foreigners living abroad seem to top out at about 5 to 6 hours of play a day, they will more than likely fall further behind the Koreans who are practicing harder than ever.
In addition, I believe the skill ceiling has been raised in HoTS. There are more spell casters to micro, more units and abilities that require skill and attention to optimally exploit and more threats from your opponent to guard against. An increase in the skill ceiling will only magnify the difference in skill between players who are dedicating their lives to HoTS and those who aren't.
Finally, the transition by KESPA players obviously made the SCII talent pool that much deeper. Since all of the KESPA players that transferred are Korean (unless I'm missing someone), the mere fact they moved into SCII meant that the gap between foreigners and Koreans increased and would continue to increase as they improved at the game.
On March 16 2013 17:08 Evil_Sheep wrote: The arrival of Kespa en masse to sc2 is the nail in the coffin for any foreign hopes in the future. The dismal state of zerg in hots and the fact that most top foreigners are zerg is just kicking dirt on the grave. Stephano should be able to reach the quarters but he'll be all alone.
Where do you think the term patch zerg comes from?
On March 16 2013 17:08 Evil_Sheep wrote: The arrival of Kespa en masse to sc2 is the nail in the coffin for any foreign hopes in the future. The dismal state of zerg in hots and the fact that most top foreigners are zerg is just kicking dirt on the grave. Stephano should be able to reach the quarters but he'll be all alone.
the frenchman is overhyped and overrated. couldnt take 1 map vs Last.
On March 16 2013 17:08 Evil_Sheep wrote: The arrival of Kespa en masse to sc2 is the nail in the coffin for any foreign hopes in the future. The dismal state of zerg in hots and the fact that most top foreigners are zerg is just kicking dirt on the grave. Stephano should be able to reach the quarters but he'll be all alone.
This post suspiciously sounds very pro-foreigner pro-zerg. Anyway, no reason to overreact just yet about the future. While Stephano performed below his usual, the only foreigners to take games off Koreans were you guessed it, Zerg. There are plenty of great Korean Zergs that aren't in this tournament that will put out good results in the future. We haven't even seen much muta or swarmhost abuse yet... and I know those units can take wins in certain matchups.
All took a game off the Koreans. I didn't watch all those games, but I read the part about Bly vs Flash and it made it sound like Bly almost took another game off Flash meaning he had a chance at winning that matchup. Zerg is far from being bad.