Note: This post contains spoilers from CJ Entus vs Samsung Khan Day 2. I know what you're thinking: a newspost two hours after the match is done?? That's how we do it at TL. We're taking our Proleague coverage to the next level -- ESPN here we come. Extra thanks to riptide. --Hot_Bid
Shinhan Proleague 2008/2009 Playoff Coverage by Riptide and Heyoka
Kim Jung Woo.
Kim Jung Woo.
Kim Jung Woo.
If you were watching the game just a few hours ago you would have heard the chants in the stadium, and practically seen the rapid fire of keys as those letters came over the network and spilled into your chat client. As the new face of CJ Entus took three games in a single sitting to overpower a KHAN that was well and truly in the lead, we couldn't help but yell or type his name until our fingers were sore. In watching today's encounter, we were treated not only to some great Starcraft, but also history repeating itself, something two of our guest writers will look at a little further on in this piece.
First though, let's get the details out of the way.
There is a lot of talk in Zerg circles these days about how EffOrt isn't as good as Jaedong, and about how some of his matchups need some work. Although we wont delve into that debate right now, one thing is clear, the kid does know how to deliver a win when he has to. Last week, he stepped up and took the game away from Hite in a nerves of steel in ZvZ. This week, he met great in an ace match, and Stork in a super ace, and took both.
From build, to gameplay and starsense, he was always in complete control of the games he played. Having discovered great's hidden hatchery in the ace match, he then went on to find, harass, and eventually destroy Stork's mineral only in the super ace, and in doing so, looked relaxed to boot.
< Klive5ive> Effort wins 3 out of the 5 required games < Klive5ive> team league my ass
Word.
Of course, things weren't looking good for CJ just a few hours before the EffOrt led destruction began. Losing to KHAN in Saturday's encounter, the outfit that emerged this morning to face them again did not perform as expected. With Skyhigh dropping a game to Stork due to careless execution of his build, and Kwanro losing to Miracle in what can only be described as a right royal mess, Much was clobbered by Jangbi, and CJ were down 1 - 3. Iris and Movie, two unlikely contenders, needed to win their games to send the series to Ace, and this is where CJ's luck turned. Both players delivered convincing wins. Iris schooled FireBatHero, who if we haven't mentioned already, should be B-teamed as soon as possible. Movie too, recovering from last week's embarassing loss to Justin, properly dispatched Juni on a ZvP favoured Andromeda. CJ had done it, CJ was here, and CJ could do it, and just like last week, we all knew there was only one man for the job.
Kim Jung Woo came.
Kim Jung Woo saw.
Kim Jung Woo conquered.
In fact, it all happened so fast, the tides turned in the blink of an eye, and KHAN fans were the ones logging off IRC and leaving Live Report threads. The marauding KHAN were routed, and as EffOrt stepped into the booth to prepare for the super ace, even Stork fans knew that it was all but over. Stork is a good player, and one that has accomplished much in Starcraft. EffOrt, in his current form however, was not going to be stopped by good. In retrospect, it might seem a little unfair, for actually, there was very little KHAN could do. Stork, Jangbi, Great, they could have sent out their entire lineup and EffOrt would have dispatched them each in style. Today was his day. He knew it, we knew it, and you can be sure his opponents did too.
Here is EffOrt's post match interview translated by ITW -
<@riptide> kona translations <@CJ_IntoTheWow> i pwn ur team <@CJ_IntoTheWow> ez pz
Indeed, ez was the word of the day for a Zerg who obliterated everything in his path. While we have traditionally grouped him with the likes of Skyhigh due to their age and experience when compared to CJ's more senior player, today Kim Jung Woo showed that this comparison is at least a little unfair. While Skyhigh choked in the opening set, and made hundreds of CJ fans go crazy, EffOrt stepped up and delivered not one, but three flawless wins in conditions that would sway even the most experienced of players. Indeed, in facing stork he not only faced an OSL champion, but a rival who had beaten bigger names on bigger stages before. All that however, was of no concern to the Zerg who just went out there and did what he does best - win. Let's here what he really had to say about his hatrick.
Post Match Interview by Konadora
EffOrt: "Our team's victory today was possible because of everyone." "We will definitely defeat Hwaseung and get into the Grand Finals."
- You won three games today, pulling your team towards victory. ▲ I feel very happy. Everyone in my team put in a lotof effort, which was why we were able to bring it to the ace match, and because of that, I gained a lot of strength. It's all thanks to my teammates.
- You played a very tough match. ▲ I honestly was not nervous before I played, but once the game started, I started feeling nervous. That is why the game did not turn out as well as I expected, but when I managed to push towards Stork's natural, I knew I had won.
- Did you expect who would come out on Outsider? ▲ I expected Great to be sent out for the first ace match, and Stork or Jangbi for the super ace match.
- Other than in the Winner's League, it's the first time you've recorded three wins in a single day. ▲ It is really tough. But every time I won a game, I felt very happy and felt that I have to show everything I had prepared for. Despite that, I was still very nervous. But in the end, the results were good, so I feel relieved.
- You have to play GomTV Classic very soon. ▲ I have so many things I want to say to Iris. There is the playoffs and yet, he practiced alone for the GomTV Classic (laugh). But still, it was the day before the match so I am slightly disappointed that he didn't focus completely on the Proleague (laugh). I was worried whether he might lose, so I am very thankful that he won his match today.
- There are many fans who are looking forward for you to play against Jaedong in the playoffs. ▲ It doesn't matter who I play against, but I have played against Jaedong and if we meet on a grand stage, I believe we would be able to have a very exciting match.
- Your thoughts for your upcoming faceoff against Hwaseung? ▲ Against Hwaseung, we will have a strong, tougher mindset and work hard to defeat Hwaseung and get into the Grand Finals.
- Any final words to your fans? ▲ There were many fans who came down to cheer for us, so I am really grateful to them, and I will work hard to put on a good performance against Hwaseung, so please do continue supporting us.
While EffOrt did lead CJ to a spectacular win, it's also important to note that CJ has a history of great comebacks, and what better way to delve into CJ history than with two of Team Liquid's most rabid Entusmen.
Today was not the first time CJ managed to keep us all at the edge of our seats. Off the top of my head I remember the playoff game against MBC from last year, in which CJ was one game from elimination but managed to turn the encounter from 1-3 to 4-3. With a game from Much full of ridiculous storms, one of the most tense 2v2 matches ever (in which it all came down to memory's micro) and an ace match which many couldn't believe. If you haven't watched this series yet, I highly recommend doing so. You can read Teamliquid's reaction at the time if you still aren't convinced.
Also, it was not long ago that sKyHigh managed to take everything Hwaseung OZ had to offer and turn things around from 3-0 to 4-3. Denying an on-fire Jaedong his revenge, he went all-in without hesitation and closed the deal in the last 2 games, in the process crowning CJ as kings of the Winner's League.
In retrospect, today's game feels like a mix of those two nights. The scenario is similar to the one with MBC, one game from elimination, with no margin for error. CJ had to win all the games and riding the momentum slowly, focusing on nothing but winning one game at a time. On the flipside, EffOrt did do a Skyhigh today, by winning three of the required five games.
Of course, I have to recognize that Samsung came very well prepared for this match. I'm sure things didn't turn out like Coach Cho expected, specially on day one. Indeed, especially after the first few games, things were looking quite grim. But just like that night where CJ found answers in the hands of sKyHigh, tonight it was EffOrt's turn to step up and prove he's more than a rising star.
I'm sure Samsung knew he was going to be ace, and like great and Stork showcased, they did prepare strategically for it. The bottom line of course is that no strategy worked against EffOrt today. He was just that good. I would love to say that moments like this are the ones that separate S class players from the rest, but with the MSL and GOM still running I'll just wait, like I did today, and see what EffOrt has to offer.
The last two days have been a rollecoaster of emotions. Last night, CJ had great matchups, only to see Iris and Kwanro choke away two games to Samsung second-lineup guys who suddenly were awesome. Odin? Miracle? What was going on? CJ was supposed to be the team with superior depth! We were supposed to be the team that had their 4th-5th-6th best players score wins. If you told me that Miracle, Odin, and Juni would go 3-1, I would've given CJ absolutely no shot at taking this series.
Flash back two years ago to SuperFight 4, when CJ was basically a one man team. CJ Entus sponsored the "Ace SuperFight" where teams played each other in only one game. It was a not-so-subtle way to show off Savior. Other teams sent different players each round, but CJ sent Savior every time. And 2007 Savior did exactly what we expected him to do: win. So CJ fans are no strangers to cheering for a team with one dominant guy. We knew that if we could just get it to ace, that ice blooded, stone cold assassin Zerg player would march out and crush all hope. That became the CJ mantra: get it to an ace match, send out Savior. Get it to an ace match.
This year was different. Sure, Effort was clearly our best player, but old dependable Iris still had his TvT, coinflip Movie was winning against Leta and Jaedong one night and failing hard the next, and that young kid Skyhigh could bust out a 4-0 comeback like it was nothing. Even Kwanro was showing signs of improvement. We had depth, finally. That's what I thought going into the 2009 Proleague Playoffs, that our superior depth in the 4th-6th slots would get us the win. Against a team like Samsung, we had Movie Kwanro Much against their Juni Miracle Odin. That was a sure 2-1, at least. Then one win from our top three, and we get to ace, where Effort could handle the two KHAN aces. Easy.
Then the first night happened. I watched Iris and Kwanro crumble to the KHAN B-line. I watched Stork and Jangbi play impeccable PvP, where Much and Movie looked like they had no chance. In a match where plenty of people were predicting a 4-0 CJ win, we didn't even make it to an ace match. The second night's matches couldn't come fast enough. The disappointment festered and grew. If just one of Iris or Kwanro or Much or Movie won their games! Twenty four hours felt like an eternity, and when Skyhigh and Stork finally started off on Shades of Twilight, the obstacle in front of CJ looked insurmountable.
I was in disbelief at Skyhigh researching both vulture upgrades before siege. He never had a chance, losing a dozen SCVs to a 1-gate nexus build. The instant he had to pull SCVs for the first time it was over. Skyhigh on a great TvP map was supposed to produce at least a good shot at a win, not an embarrassing defeat. CJ can't lose like this. I couldn't believe it.
Game 2: Kwanro < Miracle @ Medusa
Kwanro scouted perfectly this game, and still failed. Had he built a sunken five seconds earlier, he holds. Instead he loses ten drones to two firebats and gets absolutely rolled by Miracle again. Miracle was been 3-7 in PL up until this point. Kwanro's 12-5 record in 2009 PL play matters nothing in the playoffs. The 3-kills in WL matter nothing. All that matters is him seeing four firebats breaking temples and doing nothing about it. 0-2. So angry.
The mood among the CJ fans was hopeful. Effort was our rock. He always brought the goods every game, especially in ZvZ. He beat Jaedong in a series! So imagine our reaction when we see Great go 9-pool speed and Effort promptly plop down a 12-hatch. Everyone was freaking out and prematurely calling the game. Down 0-3 with Jangbi PvP coming up is insurmountable. Then we watched, jaws agape, as Effort managed to defend with drones and somehow pull out a win. Kid was omniscient, scouting with ovies, sneaking with mutas, and even scouting the slow drop which never happens in ZvZ. Wow.
Why do I always talk myself into thinking Much has a chance against superior PvP? Much was behind all game, and Jangbi made correct decisions throughout. It felt hopeless and impossible. 1-3 meant we had no more margin for error. Next was Iris with a very winnable TvT, but the biggest obstacle was a PvZ on Andromeda, a graveyard of lurkers and adrenal zerglings. One game at a time, the CJ fans chanted. We're not done yet.
The prospect of FBH closing it out and dancing around the CJ bench would have put me on tilt in a hundred different ways. The way the night was going, a FBH-dance seemed almost predestined. When Iris' early game tank line broke, I had visions of powering off my computer and immediately going to sleep. I wouldn't read TL for a week. But thankfully, FBH collapsed like a house of cards, and every CJ fan breathed a huge sigh of relief. We may still lose, but there would be no dancing idiot. Thank god.
This was the critical match. Nobody on the Samsung bench wanted to see this go to Ace, because it meant Effort coming out again. Movie is a coinflip. He's Bisu or Rock depending on how it lands, and this game he was Bisu. Juni was never very good, but it's not that hard to make lurkers, then make ten hatcheries and cracklings is it? But three location harass was too much for Juni, who got rolled before he even got to hive. It was cross position ZvP on Andromeda and the Zerg didn't all-in, but still died without getting adrenal. Movie, what a hero. Hate him one night, love him the next.
This is a position we've been in before. Except we didn't have a Savior on our roster this time. Would Coach Cho send out Skyhigh or Effort on Outsider? The tension was insane. Effort stands up, and he's facing Great. I can't believe January would put Great into this situation, because he's clearly outmatched. Its very easy to look past the ZvZ to the inevitable super-ace clash with Jangbi, but I tried to keep focused. One game at a time.
Great never had a chance. Effort played perfect, taking zero scourge hits and dismantling Great with almost laughable ease. The lights-out ZvZ is something Effort already possesses that Savior never had. It was so easy, it seemed unfair. The momentum after this match was now entirely CJ's. Cries of "ONE MORE" echoed through the channel and thread, and all the CJ fans thought to themselves, "Is this really happening?" From a 2-4 loss the first night and a 1-3 hole, we were one game away from stealing match. Everything went wrong for us, yet here we were. Savior's fierce looking little brother was the favorite.
When Stork was announced, CJ fans were giddy with anticipation. Stork's PvZ sucks. Effort has this. Then the game started, and Stork took his back gas-less expansion. Everything went right, and we were on the verge of full celebration mode when Effort was taking down Stork's back natural nexus. But then Effort kept throwing away small groups of lurker-ling, and the doubt crept in. Oh my god, what if Effort loses to this weird goon-zeal build? Wouldn't that be the most painful way to lose a two-day double Bo7 match, to have victory right in front of you in the form of a 10hp red nexus and not be able to grab it?
Effort's attacks were losing steam. For a few minutes, Stork looked ahead. It wasn't supposed to turn out like this. Effort can't lose here. Stork's the choker, not Effort. Then Stork made a huge blunder, attacking headfirst into six sunkens and swarm, and losing his entire army to ultra-ling. The Stork-choke had arrived. As the ultras blew through Stork's natural, we CJ fans were all too emotionally drained to really feel anything beyond tired happiness.
I barely heard the post match interviews. There were a lot of CJ faces, and I hoped CJ would allow give themselves a day or two of celebration before starting to practice for Hwaseung. 4-3 or 4-0, a win is a win. But we were lucky to get this one. CJ's "superior depth" didn't show up, but we still pulled it out. The mark of a great team is winning when the breaks aren't going your way. Kwanro and Much will have another week to get their minds straight.
This victory was a new, yet it felt so familiar. Two years ago CJ was a one man team, and tonight is no different. Effort accounted for four of our seven wins, going 3-0 in the decisive second match. In a series that was as close as it gets (7-7), in the most intense and pressure-filled situation, we finally have our ace. There's no more doubt about who Coach Cho would send out next week if it comes down to one game. I hope Effort knows what he got into, because the next two teams won't be sending out Great and Stork. Next week and the week after, Jaedong and Bisu will be waiting. But tonight, CJ stayed alive. For one more glorious playoff week, CJ is alive.
EffOrt has often been compared to Kwanro, and until now, rightly so. Both Zerg, both from CJ, both potential proteges of Savior, it is natural that we often mentioned them in the same breath. Of course, this weekend's games told us that we should never do that again. Kwanro, yes, the same Kwanro who took out Flash, played abysmally this weekend. From an over aggressive build on Saturday, to completely failing to counter a Firebat temple break on Day 2, Kwanro lost not once, but twice to Miracle, and in the process almost jeopardised his team's playoffs run. Fortunately, the overmind kicked in and prompted another CJ Zerg to clean up his mess. All in all, let's just say that Kwanro owes EffOrt big time for today's three wins.
One of these fine gentlemen performed today. The other did not.
If there were any real doubts regarding EffOrt's ability to perform under pressure, they were put to rest today, and as CJ steps into a week of practice and preparation, you can be sure that the man at their helm will be focused on one goal alone - dishing out total and utter domination.
The feat that Kim Jung Woo today performed for CJ brings also him into the same ballpark as the most famous Zerg of all time. Many moons ago, The Maestro was Entusman #1, and led his team, sometimes carrying it squarely on his worn shoulders. Now, years later, another has risen from the swarm, and is ready, like before, to decimate anything in his path, and take CJ where they need to go.
The Overmind and CJ have always helped each other out.
EffOrt's play this weekend was nothing short of spectacular, and though we're not going to make the mistake of mentioning the B word, we will say this - many talented players rule the individual leagues, and win medals, and prizes and stand on podiums. At the end of the day, however, is it not those who can win not only for themselves, but for others, that we truly remember? Ma Jae Yoon once led CJ through a period of sheer of dominance. Now, as his reign is ending, another Zerg has stepped up to the plate to make sure the Entus flag flies high once more. We don't know how many OSLs EffOrt will win. We don't know if he'll ever be as popular as Bisu, or as hyped as Jaedong. Today however, on this weekend in July, EffOrt earned a place in every CJ fan's heart, for today, this young Zerg reminded the Starcraft world at large that with CJ Entus, it really ain't over till it's over.
The lineups for the Semi Final are yet to be released.
We don't know who Kim Jung Woo is playing next.
What we do know is that whoever it is, he should be very, very afraid.
Thanks to Konadora for the lightning fast translation, pachi for the uber banner, and ITW and Hot_Bid for cranking out quality copy in record time.
what a ridiculous series of games, going to pass out now
i leave you with OneOther's tale of misery, what i would've been had CJ lost any of those last four games
On July 26 2009 17:26 OneOther wrote: well i'll post mine
- incredible happiness to see stork win in an unpredictable game. godly dragoons - holy shit monkey, miracle 2-0 and pretty certain samsung would win - controlled disappointment, it's effort - relief that the match is over. samsung vs Oz next baby! jangbi pulls through. - angry at how bad firebathero is - fucking ANGRY at how terrible juni is - disbelief that the night hasn't ended already - despair to see great get dominated by effort's surgeon precision timing - a shit bunch of feelings. pretty optimistic until stork decides to suicide - sad as hell. need to be hugged by boesthius - fucking pissed iccup goes down for 5 minutes
For a neutral that was such an amazing series, we can only hope the next rounds are as exciting as that. Although I don't like the format, it did make for a great comeback. In my eyes Kim Jung Woo has now confirmed that he is the real deal. He has become such an incredible player almost in the blink of an eye. Even Jaedong is a little bit scared right now. Effort not only has the skills, but he has the better team behind him.. it could be a very one-sided series.
Great article! Have to disagree with the last paragraph though, we remember the players who own in individual leagues but not so much the ones in proleague... While its nice to carry ur team in proleague, true legends are formed on the big stages of the MSL/OSL.
Can't say I'm a fan of this new system =/ Khan performed better over the course of the two nights (7-6) and yet their dream proleague run was stopped because of a single game. It all kinda seems... unjust. One bo7 was better imo. This format definitely benefits the teams who have a single strong player and hurts the team with depth, but no stars.
- You have to play GomTV Classic very soon. ▲ I have so many things I want to say to Iris. There is the playoffs and yet, he practiced alone for the GomTV Classic (laugh). But still, it was the day before the match so I am slightly disappointed that he didn't focus completely on the Proleague (laugh). I was worried whether he might lose, so I am very thankful that he won his match today.
Well that explains it. I'm glad Iris won though. I hope he can beat Flash in the finals.
Isn't it a spoiler by putting a picture of a CJ Entus player (Effort:D) on the front page picture? (Especially the title being Conquered) Really nice article though!
On July 26 2009 20:14 Plexa wrote: Can't say I'm a fan of this new system =/ Khan performed better over the course of the two nights (7-6) and yet their dream proleague run was stopped because of a single game. It all kinda seems... unjust. One bo7 was better imo. This format definitely benefits the teams who have a single strong player and hurts the team with depth, but no stars.
Well, its kind of Khan's fault lacking a decent anti Z line up. FBH used to stack up but not anymore, if it was vs KTF or SKT whos core is also T/P, it wouldve been a completely different story, its not that khan lacks stars, its that Jangbi and Stork are both vP/T specialists and lack real PvZ strength. Oz,however, will have no problems in this format, JD got enough preparation from WL, and he is all ready to do it all again, without a 5pool this time.
Also Plexa, you do not need stars to win this format, just proper snipers. If for example if you are playing Oz, you know JD is coming out, you can prepare a strat to cheese him out for a week, its more about effective sniping, I mean every single team in the top 6 has atleast 1 person thats A/S in that certain mu and can play on that certain map, this format is really exciting, and its fun to watch. Great dropped the ball this time, and so did Stork, but thats what makes it fun to watch and makes it anime esque, a invincible player that defeats all odds, thats the story of the day. Its like WL over again except with more matches and more team back up. Im loving the playoffs so far. Hopefully Khan can step up their vZ next season.
Simply just amazing article. Here in my room like 30 degree celsius warm, but need to read article like this and watch every possible sc match, no matter if I faint soon.
On July 26 2009 20:14 Plexa wrote: Can't say I'm a fan of this new system =/ Khan performed better over the course of the two nights (7-6) and yet their dream proleague run was stopped because of a single game. It all kinda seems... unjust. One bo7 was better imo. This format definitely benefits the teams who have a single strong player and hurts the team with depth, but no stars.
On July 26 2009 20:14 Plexa wrote: Can't say I'm a fan of this new system =/ Khan performed better over the course of the two nights (7-6) and yet their dream proleague run was stopped because of a single game. It all kinda seems... unjust. One bo7 was better imo. This format definitely benefits the teams who have a single strong player and hurts the team with depth, but no stars.
I disagree. I think this system balances teams with one star and teams with depth. Teams with depth have a chance to go 4-2 on two days, teams with one star try to do the opposite and get their star player to play ace on 2 days.
In that sense, it's no different from the old system, except instead of the depth teams only having one chance to take the star player down in an ace match, they get two or three chances.
This year, CJ and SKT happen to have BOTH depth and a star player, which is why they look like the strongest teams in the proleague. Against Khan, CJ's star player pulled them out of trouble. Against Hwaseung, CJ will want to KO them with depth before it gets to ace.
On July 26 2009 20:14 Plexa wrote: Can't say I'm a fan of this new system =/ Khan performed better over the course of the two nights (7-6) and yet their dream proleague run was stopped because of a single game. It all kinda seems... unjust. One bo7 was better imo. This format definitely benefits the teams who have a single strong player and hurts the team with depth, but no stars.
WHAT THE-
It was YOU guys who were telling STX fans to stfu for complaining about the format because Samsung did exactly the same thing in the previous series!
On July 26 2009 20:14 Plexa wrote: Can't say I'm a fan of this new system =/ Khan performed better over the course of the two nights (7-6) and yet their dream proleague run was stopped because of a single game. It all kinda seems... unjust. One bo7 was better imo. This format definitely benefits the teams who have a single strong player and hurts the team with depth, but no stars.
WHAT THE-
It was YOU guys who were telling STX fans to stfu for complaining about the format because Samsung did exactly the same thing in the previous series!
Let's try not to get this personal. Please mind your tone.
▲ I feel very happy. Everyone in my team put in a lot of EffOrt, which was why we were able to bring it to the ace match, and because of that, I gained a lot of strength. It's all thanks to my teammates.
YEAH, let's put Effort into this, he surely will solve the problem
Ok, I'm slightly pissed. I couldn't watch the games last night, I log onto TL, and first thing I see is a huge photo of EffOrt on the front page, followed by a 'CJ vs Samsung spoiler alert!'. Yeah, as if the photo above wasn't obvious enough as to be a spoiler all by itself.
On July 27 2009 00:29 Zato-1 wrote: Ok, I'm slightly pissed. I couldn't watch the games last night, I log onto TL, and first thing I see is a huge photo of EffOrt on the front page, followed by a 'CJ vs Samsung spoiler alert!'. Yeah, as if the photo above wasn't obvious enough as to be a spoiler all by itself.
Thanks for spoiling the series for me ><
That was already discussed with the people involved. Don't know the exact details, but I know that that matter was discussed before being posted.
On July 26 2009 20:14 Plexa wrote: Can't say I'm a fan of this new system =/ Khan performed better over the course of the two nights (7-6) and yet their dream proleague run was stopped because of a single game. It all kinda seems... unjust. One bo7 was better imo. This format definitely benefits the teams who have a single strong player and hurts the team with depth, but no stars.
I disagree. I think this system balances teams with one star and teams with depth.
Haha some of these CJ fans are hilarious. Plexa is absolutely correct.
Let's look at it from another angle: In the regular matches the score was Samsung 7 CJ 5. That's a comfortable winning margin. In no other format does that take you to ace matches.
On July 27 2009 00:29 Zato-1 wrote: Ok, I'm slightly pissed. I couldn't watch the games last night, I log onto TL, and first thing I see is a huge photo of EffOrt on the front page, followed by a 'CJ vs Samsung spoiler alert!'. Yeah, as if the photo above wasn't obvious enough as to be a spoiler all by itself.
Thanks for spoiling the series for me ><
That was already discussed with the people involved. Don't know the exact details, but I know that that matter was discussed before being posted.
Fair enough. Still not a fan of posting a picture of the winning team on the front page just a few hours after the series is done, though. If doing this is okay, I have to make sure not to visit TL until after I've watched the series next time
On July 27 2009 00:29 Zato-1 wrote: Ok, I'm slightly pissed. I couldn't watch the games last night, I log onto TL, and first thing I see is a huge photo of EffOrt on the front page, followed by a 'CJ vs Samsung spoiler alert!'. Yeah, as if the photo above wasn't obvious enough as to be a spoiler all by itself.
Thanks for spoiling the series for me ><
That was already discussed with the people involved. Don't know the exact details, but I know that that matter was discussed before being posted.
Sorry but if you're gonna put spoiler alert in the description of the article don't give it away with the picture AND title, use a generic picture or name for the article for front page for proleague and put pictures in the article itself. You spoilered the front page that there were spoilers from the series, that's enough warning to not read the article if people don't want to know results, I literally had NO chance to avoid it and it's kinda obvious CJ probably won if you use a picture of them with the article called CONQUERED. Not a fan of this decision and kinda bummed, less than a day isn't very much time to give us to watch on our own and it would suck if I have to avoid TL now just because of things like this in playoffs. =/
*sigh* /endrant
Just for the record I was originally gonna watch the series on my own spoilerless but ended up reading it because of the front page issue giving it away...
Khan vs CJ (then G.O.) 2005 Sky PL R2 playoffs Stork beat Savior in the ACE @ Requiem (Ash map too!). Four years later Savior's heir (ok, he's not fully there yet, but he might in the future) takes revenge.
On July 27 2009 00:29 Zato-1 wrote: Ok, I'm slightly pissed. I couldn't watch the games last night, I log onto TL, and first thing I see is a huge photo of EffOrt on the front page, followed by a 'CJ vs Samsung spoiler alert!'. Yeah, as if the photo above wasn't obvious enough as to be a spoiler all by itself.
Thanks for spoiling the series for me ><
That was already discussed with the people involved. Don't know the exact details, but I know that that matter was discussed before being posted.
Sorry but if you're gonna put spoiler alert in the description of the article don't give it away with the picture AND title, use a generic picture or name for the article for front page for proleague and put pictures in the article itself. You spoilered the front page that there were spoilers from the series, that's enough warning to not read the article if people don't want to know results, I literally had NO chance to avoid it and it's kinda obvious CJ probably won if you use a picture of them with the article called CONQUERED. Not a fan of this decision and kinda bummed, less than a day isn't very much time to give us to watch on our own and it would suck if I have to avoid TL now just because of things like this in playoffs. =/
*sigh* /endrant
Just for the record I was originally gonna watch the series on my own spoilerless but ended up reading it because of the front page issue giving it away...
It's simple: don't use the front page of a news site if you don't want to get spoiled. Just bookmark the Forum Index
Wow that was insanely fast. I felt like writing something if Samsung won and I was planning shit out after the first night. However I didn't write anything because I knew that if it went to ace match Samsung was dead.
Props to Riptide, Hotbid, and intothewow, as well as konadora for getting this up so fast and with high quality writiting to boot.
On July 26 2009 20:14 Plexa wrote: Can't say I'm a fan of this new system =/ Khan performed better over the course of the two nights (7-6) and yet their dream proleague run was stopped because of a single game. It all kinda seems... unjust. One bo7 was better imo. This format definitely benefits the teams who have a single strong player and hurts the team with depth, but no stars.
I disagree. I think this system balances teams with one star and teams with depth.
Haha some of these CJ fans are hilarious. Plexa is absolutely correct.
Let's look at it from another angle: In the regular matches the score was Samsung 7 CJ 5. That's a comfortable winning margin. In no other format does that take you to ace matches.
Samsung fans are ridiculous, because if it wasn't his format with the super ace, they would've been dead vs STX
Looking forward to Jaedong Oz vs. EffOrt Entus up next
EDIT: Not saying that in the spirit that everyone else in their respective team sucks (they don't), but rather, that since this setup puts a ridiculous importance on having one powerful ace player, it'll boil down to EffOrt vs. Jaedong- all the CJ supporting cast had to do was win 2 out of 5 games in one of two series and EffOrt did everything else. Same will be true for Hwaseung if Jaedong can consistently beat EffOrt in ace games.
Change the picture of the front page please. I was disappointingly spoilered -_-.
edit: After reading, the reasons for posting the spoiler-ish front page is ridiculous. After TL's been bashing on other starcraft sites for spoiling results on their front page TL goes and does this too? That's fine if it becomes the norm but this is the first time it's ever really happened and thus, no real need to bookmark the forum index before now.
On July 26 2009 20:14 Plexa wrote: Can't say I'm a fan of this new system =/ Khan performed better over the course of the two nights (7-6) and yet their dream proleague run was stopped because of a single game. It all kinda seems... unjust. One bo7 was better imo. This format definitely benefits the teams who have a single strong player and hurts the team with depth, but no stars.
Super-Ace is stupid and doesn't really show the better team imo, which is what proleague is all about right? Funnily enough, Khan beat STX with Super-Ace even though the overall score was better for STX (3-4 4-1).
Either best of 3 bo5/7s or one big best of 14 would be what I'd prefer to see personally.
On July 26 2009 20:14 Plexa wrote: Can't say I'm a fan of this new system =/ Khan performed better over the course of the two nights (7-6) and yet their dream proleague run was stopped because of a single game. It all kinda seems... unjust. One bo7 was better imo. This format definitely benefits the teams who have a single strong player and hurts the team with depth, but no stars.
I disagree. I think this system balances teams with one star and teams with depth.
Haha some of these CJ fans are hilarious. Plexa is absolutely correct.
Let's look at it from another angle: In the regular matches the score was Samsung 7 CJ 5. That's a comfortable winning margin. In no other format does that take you to ace matches.
ROFL, and it was the Samsung Khan fans defending the very same format when STX won more matches overall (3-4 4-1 --- 7-5).
On July 26 2009 20:14 Plexa wrote: Can't say I'm a fan of this new system =/ Khan performed better over the course of the two nights (7-6) and yet their dream proleague run was stopped because of a single game. It all kinda seems... unjust. One bo7 was better imo. This format definitely benefits the teams who have a single strong player and hurts the team with depth, but no stars.
I disagree. I think this system balances teams with one star and teams with depth.
Haha some of these CJ fans are hilarious. Plexa is absolutely correct.
Let's look at it from another angle: In the regular matches the score was Samsung 7 CJ 5. That's a comfortable winning margin. In no other format does that take you to ace matches.
Samsung fans are ridiculous, because if it wasn't his format with the super ace, they would've been dead vs STX
Oh man, I didn't think Samsung fans had such short memories. They were telling STX fans to cry more just a few days ago and now they're playing the role of the "just unhappy the format doesn't favor the better team".
No games so far have ended in an outright victory. All have gone to Super ACE. With such a trend, one would expect the Oz v. CJ game to also go to a Super ACE.
Thus, we'll hear some more format complaints again. I'm 90% sure on that.
On July 27 2009 01:39 Tensai176 wrote: Change the picture of the front page please. I was disappointingly spoilered -_-.
edit: After reading, the reasons for posting the spoiler-ish front page is ridiculous. After TL's been bashing on other starcraft sites for spoiling results on their front page TL goes and does this too? That's fine if it becomes the norm but this is the first time it's ever really happened and thus, no real need to bookmark the forum index before now.
I have to agree. I have vivid memories of Chill bashing GosuGamers for putting results on the front page. However, I think GG.net had "Someone beat someone else" while this news post is a CJ picture and "Conquered." TL is a little more subtle.
I'll try and think up a suggestion for website feedback that prevents spoilers for fast news posts. Something like: the image for the news post is replaced with an image that says "Spoiler!" unless you click on the blue box. The image is then reverted 24h from the TL calendar listing.
Edit: Oh, and the news post is sick. Fantastic writeup. I appreciate how fast and well done the news post is even if we are arguing over spoilers.
Edit2: Apparently making the front page image more ambiguous solves the problem. Whatever works.
On July 26 2009 20:14 Plexa wrote: Can't say I'm a fan of this new system =/ Khan performed better over the course of the two nights (7-6) and yet their dream proleague run was stopped because of a single game. It all kinda seems... unjust. One bo7 was better imo. This format definitely benefits the teams who have a single strong player and hurts the team with depth, but no stars.
I disagree. I think this system balances teams with one star and teams with depth.
Haha some of these CJ fans are hilarious. Plexa is absolutely correct.
Let's look at it from another angle: In the regular matches the score was Samsung 7 CJ 5. That's a comfortable winning margin. In no other format does that take you to ace matches.
Samsung fans are ridiculous, because if it wasn't his format with the super ace, they would've been dead vs STX
Oh man, I didn't think Samsung fans had such short memories. They were telling STX fans to cry more just a few days ago and now they're playing the role of the "just unhappy the format doesn't favor the better team".
I mean... are you guys serious.
Point out the Khan fans complaining about the format! Plexa and Klive5ive are MBC fans. edit And I wouldn't say they are complaining.
I absolutely love how the FANS of the teams help write a large part of the newspost, not just outside people who were chosen for ProLeague write-ups. Major props to ITW and H_B, as well as everyone else who was involved.
Looking forward to SKT1 finals, I want to write-up a victory like this ;D
On July 26 2009 20:14 Plexa wrote: Can't say I'm a fan of this new system =/ Khan performed better over the course of the two nights (7-6) and yet their dream proleague run was stopped because of a single game. It all kinda seems... unjust. One bo7 was better imo. This format definitely benefits the teams who have a single strong player and hurts the team with depth, but no stars.
I can't agree with this more. From an entertainment standpoint the format seems fine (a single super mega ace match is kind of neat) but as far as "the better team winning" its fucking absurd. Increased set to best of 7 (a good idea!) is nearly totally negated by the fact you're playing a goddamn BEST OF TWO and the chances of a series ending at 1-1 is a near certainty.
On July 26 2009 20:14 Plexa wrote: Can't say I'm a fan of this new system =/ Khan performed better over the course of the two nights (7-6) and yet their dream proleague run was stopped because of a single game. It all kinda seems... unjust. One bo7 was better imo. This format definitely benefits the teams who have a single strong player and hurts the team with depth, but no stars.
I disagree. I think this system balances teams with one star and teams with depth.
Haha some of these CJ fans are hilarious. Plexa is absolutely correct.
Let's look at it from another angle: In the regular matches the score was Samsung 7 CJ 5. That's a comfortable winning margin. In no other format does that take you to ace matches.
Samsung fans are ridiculous, because if it wasn't his format with the super ace, they would've been dead vs STX
While I agree that complaining about the format is ridiculous, if there had been no super-ace KHAN wins on day 1 against STX and that's the end of it.
Good job, guys. We'll get you next time hopefully.
Thanks for changing the image on the front page! I love the front page layout on TL, so having to go to the forum index instead in the future would've been a bummer.
Wow, really fast article and 10/10 quality good read!!!
I was really in shock along with everyone else when I saw this match and I seriously had thought that it was all over for CJ. Where Khan had 4 chances win, just that one more win while for CJ, it was all or nothing. But to see that a new rising star has prevailed within this playoffs, I am simply amazed and excited of what it is to come over the next couple of weekends.
I have to say though, CJ is definitely on a big roll that just won't lose their momentum nor morale anytime soon after this. A comeback that is utterly shocking to most of us as we almost thought this was going to be it. So tips of my hats to you CJ and especially to Effort. You have won the game, the match, the thread, and the hearts to a lot of us (not Khan fans obviously... ^_^) and proved to us that (-_-) > (^_^).
However, like I stated again, SKT1 is still stand strong and even as a loyal fan of SKT1, I can see this is going to be one tough huge blood bath battle between these two teams. Yet, I do believe that SKT1 can prove victorious within all this but that's something we must see in the future.....
Not to mention, OZ is still there standing in the path and way of the Grand Finals for CJ. They may not be as strong as one may thing, and they may definitely not produce the levels of play Khan, STX, CJ or SKT1 have performed but out of all the mist, Jaedong still stands tall and CJ Effort must overcome the Tyrant in order to reach to the final boss.....
khan deserve more the win .... CJ did this only because of effort , stupid mistakes by January and the fail of Firebathero... that was all , nothing special khan was owning the place.
Just because Effort won the super-ace doesn't mean the entire thing was carried by him. If his team mates hadn't won in the previous days, they wouldn't have had the super ace.
Plus, let's swap CJ with Oz.. would you guys be complaining if Jaedong won the semis via a super ace?
All that aside, I hope CJ can keep going and take out SKT in the grand finals! ...I won't eat my underwear if they lose though (GTR...)
On July 27 2009 03:35 Torenhire wrote: Just because Effort won the super-ace doesn't mean the entire thing was carried by him. If his team mates hadn't won in the previous days, they wouldn't have had the super ace.
I'd say Effort did carry his team quite heavily. Sure, so has Jaedong for Oz, and the playoffs format facilitates this- but I'll keep on calling them EffOrt Entus until that one player stops being the only one in the team delivering a solid performance and dependable results.
On July 26 2009 20:14 Plexa wrote: Can't say I'm a fan of this new system =/ Khan performed better over the course of the two nights (7-6) and yet their dream proleague run was stopped because of a single game. It all kinda seems... unjust. One bo7 was better imo. This format definitely benefits the teams who have a single strong player and hurts the team with depth, but no stars.
I can't agree with this more. From an entertainment standpoint the format seems fine (a single super mega ace match is kind of neat) but as far as "the better team winning" its fucking absurd. Increased set to best of 7 (a good idea!) is nearly totally negated by the fact you're playing a goddamn BEST OF TWO and the chances of a series ending at 1-1 is a near certainty.
The problem is that you think that a Bo7 should give the team like STX an advantage over Khan when a Bo11 would be the best for STX. A Bo7 is not that much different from a Bo5.
On July 26 2009 20:14 Plexa wrote: Can't say I'm a fan of this new system =/ Khan performed better over the course of the two nights (7-6) and yet their dream proleague run was stopped because of a single game. It all kinda seems... unjust. One bo7 was better imo. This format definitely benefits the teams who have a single strong player and hurts the team with depth, but no stars.
I can't agree with this more. From an entertainment standpoint the format seems fine (a single super mega ace match is kind of neat) but as far as "the better team winning" its fucking absurd. Increased set to best of 7 (a good idea!) is nearly totally negated by the fact you're playing a goddamn BEST OF TWO and the chances of a series ending at 1-1 is a near certainty.
The problem is that you think that a Bo7 should give the team like STX an advantage over Khan when a Bo11 would be the best for STX. A Bo7 is not that much different from a Bo5.
those complaining about depth, two bo7s means teams with more than 1 player have a much better shot at it. lesser players on those teams have to train for two matches on consecutive nights.
yes, super ace is geared more toward one strong player, but PL was always about that. every match during the year, every bo5, 40% of the wins could come from one guy. so a bo7 with an ace really isn't that different.
plus, this format has given us some of the most intense, drama filled, crazy games we've had. its like 2x more insane than a normal ace match. can't complain about that.
On July 27 2009 05:01 Hot_Bid wrote: plus, this format has given us some of the most intense, drama filled, crazy games we've had. its like 2x more insane than a normal ace match. can't complain about that.
Amen to that.
On July 27 2009 04:34 [GiTM]-Ace wrote: And yea the picture is fine cause I wasn't sure who was conquered before reading this thread to be honest.
That would be because you saw the second picture, and not the original one. The original one made it pretty obvious who was the conqueror ;p
The current picture doesn't convey the emotion the original one did, sadly, but I'd rather have that than possibly spoil the results to more people.
those complaining about depth, two bo7s means teams with more than 1 player have a much better shot at it. lesser players on those teams have to train for two matches on consecutive nights.
I was gonna say something like this
I mean if you have a deep line up and play against a team who was one superstar who is definitely gonna be sent out, just think about how much of an advantage it is that that ace player might have to prepare for 5 (!!) games instead of 1/2. Just think about how movie owned leta. The amount you practice for one specific match makes such a huge difference.
On July 26 2009 20:14 Plexa wrote: Can't say I'm a fan of this new system =/ Khan performed better over the course of the two nights (7-6) and yet their dream proleague run was stopped because of a single game. It all kinda seems... unjust. One bo7 was better imo. This format definitely benefits the teams who have a single strong player and hurts the team with depth, but no stars.
I can't agree with this more. From an entertainment standpoint the format seems fine (a single super mega ace match is kind of neat) but as far as "the better team winning" its fucking absurd. Increased set to best of 7 (a good idea!) is nearly totally negated by the fact you're playing a goddamn BEST OF TWO and the chances of a series ending at 1-1 is a near certainty.
The problem is that you think that a Bo7 should give the team like STX an advantage over Khan when a Bo11 would be the best for STX. A Bo7 is not that much different from a Bo5.
Bo11 is too long.
Okay. So I guess STX won't be looking at a podium finish for quite awhile then.
all this rabid fanism is great. this marks the time when SC moves into a true spectator sport.
both teams did great and put on a great games ( sept FBH ) I feel more sad that Khan did not win because they don't even have anyone in the individual leagues... wonder what they will do for the next month --->
also I dont think OZ has a shot at CJ, but we will see...
On July 27 2009 05:01 Hot_Bid wrote: plus, this format has given us some of the most intense, drama filled, crazy games we've had. its like 2x more insane than a normal ace match. can't complain about that.
Well im very sad cus Samsung lost... but Im a zerg lover and its seems that maybe we have another overmind... Effort is playing at a sick Lvl he is playing like Jaedong... and that is very hard to do.
Good Job Effort you won against Khan, I feel pretty bad about fbh... January has to make him dump his gf or he is going to the B-Team. Now that Khan isnt on the playoff anymore its time for Backho winning all... Lets go Oz and Backho!
Looking foward to the Match betwen Cj and Oz... this format of playoff maybe is not the best cus always the loser team find anoying things on it.. but this format delivered.
If Effort beats Jaedong at ZvZ AGAIN and wins it for his team, People will poop their pants and scream "Bonjwa". Prepare for the debate guys.
I love Jaedong, but It always bothered me that he could always drop a game or two against no names and that he doesn't have a bunch of trophies (he deserves them). Perhaps my prayers for a truly dominant zerg will be answered.
On July 27 2009 07:17 ShaperofDreams wrote: If Effort beats Jaedong at ZvZ AGAIN and wins it for his team, People will poop their pants and scream "Bonjwa". Prepare for the debate guys.
I love Jaedong, but It always bothered me that he could always drop a game or two against no names and that he doesn't have a bunch of trophies (he deserves them). Perhaps my prayers for a truly dominant zerg will be answered.
r u for rela? Effort isnt near Jaedong... he is playing on a high level like jaedong, but he isnt at Jaedong to start calling him a "Bonjwa" he needs a lot of time to be like Jd... he needs at least 2 Osl titles, remember Effort is good, the best Zerg after Jd but this is Jaedong time... and maybe effort could beat Jd but he is droping from the starleagues something that Jaedong isnt doing (for now at least).
And Effort deserves the number 1 spot on the PR just because of his match against Khan so much pressure on him and he delivered, but remember when Bisu and Jd start to play again every day people is going to forget how well is effort doing... its just a momentary thing. I give effort 1 year more and he is going into starleague mode and start winning all... hopefully =D
I don't think the first picture spoilered it at all, although I agree with the change. The first picture showed effort with his headphones off and the title "conquered". Was ambiguous for me.
On July 27 2009 07:17 ShaperofDreams wrote: If Effort beats Jaedong at ZvZ AGAIN and wins it for his team, People will poop their pants and scream "Bonjwa". Prepare for the debate guys.
I love Jaedong, but It always bothered me that he could always drop a game or two against no names and that he doesn't have a bunch of trophies (he deserves them). Perhaps my prayers for a truly dominant zerg will be answered.
Jaedong doesn't have a bunch of trophies?
So what trophies should an accomplished starcraft player have, if its not Pro League, GOM, MSL and OSL titles?
Also who exactly are these "no name" players? In his last 40 or sth games he had losses against canata, effort, yarnc, stork, light, bisu and movie. While only bisu and probably effort are S-class, which one of these guys is a "no name" player? O_o
On July 26 2009 20:14 Plexa wrote: *snip* This format definitely benefits the teams who have a single strong player and hurts the team with depth, but no stars.
On July 26 2009 20:14 Plexa wrote: *snip* This format definitely benefits the teams who have a single strong player and hurts the team with depth, but no stars.
This.
regular bo7 benefits a team with a single strong player equally as much imo
You shouldn't use conquered if it's not about forgg 정ㅋ벅ㅋ ^^
Just kidding, this was a great article and as a CJ fan, yesterday was probably the best day ever. It was almost as good as Skyhigh reversekilling OZ in the winner's league. Effort really came through for his team.
On July 27 2009 07:17 ShaperofDreams wrote: If Effort beats Jaedong at ZvZ AGAIN and wins it for his team, People will poop their pants and scream "Bonjwa". Prepare for the debate guys.
I love Jaedong, but It always bothered me that he could always drop a game or two against no names and that he doesn't have a bunch of trophies (he deserves them). Perhaps my prayers for a truly dominant zerg will be answered.
Jaedong doesn't have a bunch of trophies?
So what trophies should an accomplished starcraft player have, if its not Pro League, GOM, MSL and OSL titles?
Also who exactly are these "no name" players? In his last 40 or sth games he had losses against canata, effort, yarnc, stork, light, bisu and movie. While only bisu and probably effort are S-class, which one of these guys is a "no name" player? O_o
Compared to jaedong, bisu and flash, who are light and movie? no names. As in they have not won a trophy, so they don't have their names on anything. Are you offended at me saying this? I am confused. Jaedong does drop games he is supposed to win once in a while, are you denying that? He does not have a bonjwa amount of titles (mainly because competition is so crazy these days). It's not like he has been beating everybody and winning everything for a year, I am saying that I would like this to happen.
On July 27 2009 07:17 ShaperofDreams wrote: If Effort beats Jaedong at ZvZ AGAIN and wins it for his team, People will poop their pants and scream "Bonjwa". Prepare for the debate guys.
I love Jaedong, but It always bothered me that he could always drop a game or two against no names and that he doesn't have a bunch of trophies (he deserves them). Perhaps my prayers for a truly dominant zerg will be answered.
r u for rela? Effort isnt near Jaedong... he is playing on a high level like jaedong, but he isnt at Jaedong to start calling him a "Bonjwa" he needs a lot of time to be like Jd... he needs at least 2 Osl titles, remember Effort is good, the best Zerg after Jd but this is Jaedong time... and maybe effort could beat Jd but he is droping from the starleagues something that Jaedong isnt doing (for now at least).
And Effort deserves the number 1 spot on the PR just because of his match against Khan so much pressure on him and he delivered, but remember when Bisu and Jd start to play again every day people is going to forget how well is effort doing... its just a momentary thing. I give effort 1 year more and he is going into starleague mode and start winning all... hopefully =D
I think you misunderstood my post. I did not say that Effort is a bonjwa or that he is as good as jaedong.
I said that I hope in the future he or jaedong will kick ass and win a bunch of stuff because I want a zerg "bonjwa".
On July 27 2009 07:17 ShaperofDreams wrote: If Effort beats Jaedong at ZvZ AGAIN and wins it for his team, People will poop their pants and scream "Bonjwa". Prepare for the debate guys.
I love Jaedong, but It always bothered me that he could always drop a game or two against no names and that he doesn't have a bunch of trophies (he deserves them). Perhaps my prayers for a truly dominant zerg will be answered.
Jaedong doesn't have a bunch of trophies?
So what trophies should an accomplished starcraft player have, if its not Pro League, GOM, MSL and OSL titles?
Also who exactly are these "no name" players? In his last 40 or sth games he had losses against canata, effort, yarnc, stork, light, bisu and movie. While only bisu and probably effort are S-class, which one of these guys is a "no name" player? O_o
Compared to jaedong, bisu and flash, who are light and movie? no names. As in they have not won a trophy, so they don't have their names on anything. Are you offended at me saying this? I am confused. Jaedong does drop games he is supposed to win once in a while, are you denying that? He does not have a bonjwa amount of titles (mainly because competition is so crazy these days). It's not like he has been beating everybody and winning everything for a year, I am saying that I would like this to happen.
Uh-huh, so everybody who doesn't have a trophy is a no name. So sea is a fuckin no name, leta is a fuckin no name, effort is a fuckin no name. (this list of course could go on and on and on)
The thing is that when I read your post it sounds like you don't know how starcraft works- it doesn't work the way that one dominant player will win every game he is supposed to win. Savior lost to Iris. Savior lost to Chojja. Savior lost to Bisu (all of them no names back then by your definition) . He was supposed to beat them. He was the freaking bonjwa. It just doesn't work like that, not even for a bonjwa, which we obviously dont even have atm, lesser players are always gonna be able to overcome the best of the best. And that is true nowadays in particular because players have never been this good.
And your "JD lacks trophies" part still doesnt make sense.
On July 27 2009 08:14 Manifesto7 wrote: I don't think the first picture spoilered it at all, although I agree with the change. The first picture showed effort with his headphones off and the title "conquered". Was ambiguous for me.
On one hand you are completely right, but if I think about it more, doesn't it seem like there is no chance for Effort to lose, so in fact it is a spoiler?
Nice write-up. I'm stunned by the result I must say.
I really don't understand all this complaining about being spoiled as to the results though... This is, and has now for a very long time been, a Starcraft *news* site. News is, by its very nature, telling you what has happened. If you don't want to see the news, and it bothers you to such levels to read spoilers, you shouldn't be accessing this site through the front page. This is like all the dumb complaints about spoilers in the replay comments section... seriously.
In that sense samsung should be eliminated by stx. Stx has the better overall performance but not a superstar. This kind of argument makes no sense at all.
Korean rules.
On July 26 2009 20:14 Plexa wrote: Can't say I'm a fan of this new system =/ Khan performed better over the course of the two nights (7-6) and yet their dream proleague run was stopped because of a single game. It all kinda seems... unjust. One bo7 was better imo. This format definitely benefits the teams who have a single strong player and hurts the team with depth, but no stars.
Well from here on out I doubt anyone can go 3-0 in a single night. The ace players in the 3 remaining teams are too good to allow that to happen.
Congratulations to CJ and I hope you are good enough to receive a T1 beating in the finals. Khan should be kicking themselves in the ass right now after losing a TvT they were ahead in, a ZvP on andromeda, and a 9 pool vs 12hatch. Not taking away from the very strong play by the CJ players but they were just so close man. Also, this super ace system creates starleague final level tension. Hopefully the next 2 rounds will result in super aces because I love them.
On July 27 2009 15:16 moriya wrote: In that sense samsung should be eliminated by stx. Stx has the better overall performance but not a superstar. This kind of argument makes no sense at all.
He said he preferred the old bo7 system which Khan still won in. Khan showed they could go toe-to-toe with the deepest line around.
is it just me or was this article a little biased (or is it supposed to be?). Stork is not simply 'good', he's a protoss legend, he beat SkyHigh by playing excellently, wasnt just a matter of Skyhigh 'dropping' it, stork's PvZ does not 'suck' it is just not s-class (it is 6/7% above the PvZ average of 47%ish)...... i know im a bit of a fanboy but still...
Anyway I admire CJ & Effort especially, they were terrific and deserved their win, but at least give Khan some credit & respect for the way they played, which was excellent too (FBH excepted ). But maybe you did and i missed it...
I think you missed the part where it was said that the write-ups were made by "CJ Entusmen", and in the comments I said that it was great that these things were written by FANS OF THE WINNING TEAM. Pay more attention, young one.
On July 26 2009 20:14 Plexa wrote: *snip* This format definitely benefits the teams who have a single strong player and hurts the team with depth, but no stars.
This.
regular bo7 benefits a team with a single strong player equally as much imo
Not really. This format is: the teams play two Bo7 series, if they tie, the tiebreaker is a SINGLE game (rather than a third Bo7 series).
If your team has one titanic ace player who can consistently win his games, in a Bo7 what he can do is make sure he wins his own game, and if two others win theirs and the series goes to an Ace match, he can close that with a win. In other words: He _needs_ his team to win 2 out of the 5 games that the super ace player isn't playing.
In the playoffs format, it's the same thing, only your team gets a mulligan. Did all your non-star players lose their games? That's fine- you get a second Bo7 series, where the rest of your team gets another shot at winning 2 out of their 5 games. If they manage to win those 2 games in either Bo7 set, then your super ace wins his game, takes that Bo7 to an ace match, wins that, takes the whole series to a super ace, and wins that too. The supporting cast only needs to win 2 games out of 10 (in the same Bo7 set) for the super ace to carry the team to victory.
On July 26 2009 20:14 Plexa wrote: *snip* This format definitely benefits the teams who have a single strong player and hurts the team with depth, but no stars.
This.
regular bo7 benefits a team with a single strong player equally as much imo
Not really. This format is: the teams play two Bo7 series, if they tie, the tiebreaker is a SINGLE game (rather than a third Bo7 series).
If your team has one titanic ace player who can consistently win his games, in a Bo7 what he can do is make sure he wins his own game, and if two others win theirs and the series goes to an Ace match, he can close that with a win. In other words: He _needs_ his team to win 2 out of the 5 games that the super ace player isn't playing.
In the playoffs format, it's the same thing, only your team gets a mulligan. Did all your non-star players lose their games? That's fine- you get a second Bo7 series, where the rest of your team gets another shot at winning 2 out of their 5 games. If they manage to win those 2 games in either Bo7 set, then your super ace wins his game, takes that Bo7 to an ace match, wins that, takes the whole series to a super ace, and wins that too. The supporting cast only needs to win 2 games out of 10 (in the same Bo7 set) for the super ace to carry the team to victory.
while this is true if we have infinite practice time, the lesser players often have to practice for double the number of games, often in different matchups. having two bo7s exposes teams without depth even more, because it forces them to go deeper into their bench. its rare for a team to only play six players, even hwaseung fielded 6+.
Wowowowowow, that was an amazing write up. Can't wait for CJ vs OZ. CJ should win with their team "depth" and hopefully it will go down to a super ace match with skyhigh vs JD and JD being able to get revenge on skyhigh after that WL match that he lost in the finals or effort vs JD.
Either way, we are all probably hoping for a super ace match with bisu vs JD or bisu vs Effort.