Great ranking, I agree with most of it.
Power Rank 06/06/2008 - Page 3
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Yesterday I watched every single game Lucifer and Pure played last month. Pure looks like a dynamic, powerful new player. Lucifer looks like a second-tier putz who just happened to have a little streak of wins. No one would ask for Ruby on the Power Rank, would they? Of course not.
Oh, you did not just compare Pure to Best. Don't even go there. A PL only player who isn't even facing a terribly hard roster just cannot be compared. And didn't Anytime seem gimmicky? Ra and Garimto to some extent seemed gimmicky too.Lucifer's performance this month has just been better, at least to my eyes. Yesterday I was arguing with Phradamon because he insisted that Lucifer's crazy style made him better than Best, but today I'll argue with you that it doesn't make him worse than Pure. I realized that long ago when Pusan went nowhere compared to Anytime (and at the time I argued for Pusan).
Spekaing of Anytime, he and Bisu are the only two good palyers Pure has faced this month and Bisu pulled the win despite his bad hands right now. Anytime, however, got 2-0'd, though how much of that is due to Anytime's slump and how much is due to Pure's skill is unclear since I saw neither of those games (but if you hand that to Pure's skill, hand Free's win over Anytime to Free's skill too--).
You seem biased against forgg. His TvP is ridiculous, his TvZ has always been pretty good, and now he's starting to string together "coincidental victories" in TvT too. Players can change. Much was basically considered a nobody by almost everyone until mid 2007.
Free is not terrible. He may be boring, but he isn't terrible. His PvP is looking rock solid and his PvT is doing pretty damn good too. I don't care about his wins against Light, but Mind, Much and Jangbi are pretty big wins.
Is this is this argument even worth anything? Like, would FS even conceivably be convinced and edit the PR, or are we just wasting our time?
On June 06 2008 12:02 o[twist] wrote:
Ballsy list. I'm a little disappointed you didn't include Lomo in CBNC. Do you think he's not worth watching or has he just not played enough to prove himself yet? I would never have ranked Mind as low as you did, but sighed sadly and nodded when I saw.
I'll admit Lomo has improved, and his last few wins have been impressive. But really, its such a short burst, do you really feel he's worthy to be mentioned after the ten best players on the planet? He's gotta improve a little more before that will happen, but yeah, I'm watching him.
And yes, it pained me as well to put Mind so low, but you just can't get to the ro16 in both leagues and then get eliminated horribly.
In a BO5 I'd take Mind over anybody except Flash (obviously) and possibly Jaedong/Best but Mind's shown that he can beat both of those guys, and in CONVINCING fashion at that. Too bad Mind isn't getting to the BO5 stage (or even the BO3 stage except against indestructible Flash) any time soon.
On June 06 2008 12:08 HaXxorIzed wrote:
I remember back in the day when people said Light was headed someplace, lulz. That said, I definitely need to look at Bisu's OSL games post-win-over-mind and his proleauge games, to see how Bisu's play has been affected.
Also, I am pleased to see someone isn't buying into the Lucifer hype.
Sometimes that oldschool sensibility just has to take over. We can't be cumming about every single flash in the pan, or the Power Rank wouldn't make any damn sense at all.
+ Show Spoiler [MSL Ro16 Much v FBH] +
And as a side point: Personality has to count at least a little. I mean come on, how could ANYONE deny heart-Protoss his time in the spot light?! I've had his name in my sig since I first started watching him play, and now I'm glad others may be joining me as a Much fan!
As for the rest of the list.. I'd have a hard time disagreeing with some of the choices, but thats for good reason. It really feels to me that anyone below 3rd place this month is a toss up based on what one person values over another (staying power, recent results, recent form and competition level, individual league success, proleague success, etc.).
First, the top 3. Take a look at the current ELO rankings for TLPD... Flash is just clearly the hottest, Jaedong is clearly second, and Best is clearly third.. its non-negotiable. In every aspect of success I just listed, all three of these players are clearly a cut above the rest.
But taking a look at the rest, it really is just so much closer between every player. Honestly, if you threw 4 through 9 in a quick tourney/ladder/whatever, you would have to be stupid to think any single one of them wouldn't be a contender for 1st (Not to say Pure isn't an up and coming player worthy of his spot; its just that he hasn't had enough games and I definitely haven't seen enough of them to include him with confidence). But once you throw in ANY of the top 3, suddenly a favorite for the thing is inevitable. This really has been the state of progaming ever since Jaedong took over. Flash quickly stepped over him (but not too far) to hold the crown for the Terran race, and BeSt seems to be knocking on that door as the Protoss representative trying to show us that Bisu wasn't a fluke and the Protoss deserve their champion. Then come the second tier competitors, each strong enough in their own right to take some shots at the top 3, but none showing that they have been able to so far. Each definitely having the potential to join the top 3, but not realizing that potential just yet.
Of course, there is a tier below these players, full of the newer and bench roster, the slumpers and steady fighters. I think you did a pretty good job of picking the 7 that stand above these players and I'm not sure I have any additions for CBNC either. Overall, I think I agree with this PR more than last month (as I seem to value a lot of the things you do) but I can see why there is some contention. Some of these players are just really close. Anyways, good PR this month!