|
Valhalla18444 Posts
On July 09 2008 01:13 ThePhan2m wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2008 06:28 TheTyranid wrote: This is a good PR. Thank you for putting Flash and JD above Best. He is a great protoss but he just does not have the status that they have; not until he wins an SL at least. Top 3 is perfect and overall it is very accurate. I first thought Hwasin might be a bit low but then realised that both ForGG, Lomo, and Luxury have preformed better against Kal, and Flash respectively. Even though Lomo lost, he elevated his game and pushed the best TvT to a game 5 where as the best TvZ has suddenly dropped and was dominated in 3 straight sets. lol? what kind of excuse is it to put Flash and Jaedong before Best just cuz they once won a starleague? PR shouldnt have shit to do with past preformance, but the moment right now. And for this month, Flash hasnt been as good, And jaedong has made alot of mistakes in his games aswell, some of them just barley made it, but Best in other hand, play like a God! Best is 11-4 in June, Flash is 5-5, and Jaedong 6-5. Isnt this suposed to be an monthly PR?
If you base your statements on their overall records for the month you really don't understand the Power Rank and shouldn't be posting
|
lol, i get the point of this chart but...
let's just say sea is going to have a big drop come next month
|
On July 09 2008 01:11 ScarFace wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2008 17:45 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:On July 08 2008 15:46 ScarFace wrote:Kind of unrelated to the PR but its related to a person on the PR, and I don't really think its worth a thread/pming an admin: Shouldn't Much [pbuh] have Heart Toss as his nickname? no one calls him that psh everyone on tl does
No, we don't. We call him 'Grandpa' Toss.
|
On July 09 2008 07:33 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2008 01:13 ThePhan2m wrote:On July 08 2008 06:28 TheTyranid wrote: This is a good PR. Thank you for putting Flash and JD above Best. He is a great protoss but he just does not have the status that they have; not until he wins an SL at least. Top 3 is perfect and overall it is very accurate. I first thought Hwasin might be a bit low but then realised that both ForGG, Lomo, and Luxury have preformed better against Kal, and Flash respectively. Even though Lomo lost, he elevated his game and pushed the best TvT to a game 5 where as the best TvZ has suddenly dropped and was dominated in 3 straight sets. lol? what kind of excuse is it to put Flash and Jaedong before Best just cuz they once won a starleague? PR shouldnt have shit to do with past preformance, but the moment right now. And for this month, Flash hasnt been as good, And jaedong has made alot of mistakes in his games aswell, some of them just barley made it, but Best in other hand, play like a God! Best is 11-4 in June, Flash is 5-5, and Jaedong 6-5. Isnt this suposed to be an monthly PR? If you base your statements on their overall records for the month you really don't understand the Power Rank and shouldn't be posting
Im getting sick of ur short answers for everbody, and not to mention your fanboy powerranks, you really should explain abit more than just post shit like this. I understand the powerrank perfectly, ive been following it for aslong as it existed, and since then, it has had a huge precentage depending on how a persons record has been the last month. What is the point of a PR if you dont take that into consideration?? Tell me what you look at when you do powerank BESIDES how a person has been playing. Cuz in the last months that obviosly has been your reason for taking ppl on and off poweranks. Unless you recently decided to change the whole powerank system into somthing personal.
|
hrmm... i'm gonna have to watch more of Sea to actually see (pun actually NOT intended). been watching too many disappointing Flash games.
|
Is the osl better than the msl? They seem to be structured the same and are taken from the same pool of players, personally I think Nony should be put in the power rank >.>, He Beat fancy in an epic one vs one, thats pretty fricken awesome to me.
|
shouldn't Hwasin ought to be higher :\ ??
|
And, in things that are relavant, how can you say JDs ZvZ hasnt been tested? Who else could he test it with, Zerg are, by far, the shallowest in numbers of good level players. Right now, july/lux/JD are winning, but what other zerg is, thier arent any zerg equivalants to say Midas or Kal or Hwasin
|
Much <3 for FS to counter some of this hate...
|
Valhalla18444 Posts
On July 09 2008 13:33 ThePhan2m wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2008 07:33 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:On July 09 2008 01:13 ThePhan2m wrote:On July 08 2008 06:28 TheTyranid wrote: This is a good PR. Thank you for putting Flash and JD above Best. He is a great protoss but he just does not have the status that they have; not until he wins an SL at least. Top 3 is perfect and overall it is very accurate. I first thought Hwasin might be a bit low but then realised that both ForGG, Lomo, and Luxury have preformed better against Kal, and Flash respectively. Even though Lomo lost, he elevated his game and pushed the best TvT to a game 5 where as the best TvZ has suddenly dropped and was dominated in 3 straight sets. lol? what kind of excuse is it to put Flash and Jaedong before Best just cuz they once won a starleague? PR shouldnt have shit to do with past preformance, but the moment right now. And for this month, Flash hasnt been as good, And jaedong has made alot of mistakes in his games aswell, some of them just barley made it, but Best in other hand, play like a God! Best is 11-4 in June, Flash is 5-5, and Jaedong 6-5. Isnt this suposed to be an monthly PR? If you base your statements on their overall records for the month you really don't understand the Power Rank and shouldn't be posting Im getting sick of ur short answers for everbody, and not to mention your fanboy powerranks, you really should explain abit more than just post shit like this. I understand the powerrank perfectly, ive been following it for aslong as it existed, and since then, it has had a huge precentage depending on how a persons record has been the last month. What is the point of a PR if you dont take that into consideration?? Tell me what you look at when you do powerank BESIDES how a person has been playing. Cuz in the last months that obviosly has been your reason for taking ppl on and off poweranks. Unless you recently decided to change the whole powerank system into somthing personal.
First, mind your manners
Second, there is more important stuff to be found by WATCHING the games than by looking solely at the records players have
I mean you're the kind of guy who would think that Lucifer should be high on the PR because he had a 9 game win streak. that's not smart
|
Valhalla18444 Posts
On July 09 2008 15:19 fatalis wrote: And, in things that are relavant, how can you say JDs ZvZ hasnt been tested? Who else could he test it with, Zerg are, by far, the shallowest in numbers of good level players. Right now, july/lux/JD are winning, but what other zerg is, thier arent any zerg equivalants to say Midas or Kal or Hwasin
JD's zvz certainly isn't untested. In fact, he's the best ZvZ player in the world, and has been for quite some time
I dunno where anyone gets off saying his ZvZ is "untested"
|
I don't really understand some spots this month... But ok.
|
On July 09 2008 20:02 Fishbone wrote: I don't really understand some spots this month... But ok.
Which one except Sea ? The others are on spot except maybe Kal should have been 8 and July 6. <3 July , this is his OSL and his golden mouse i believe !!
|
On July 09 2008 15:59 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2008 13:33 ThePhan2m wrote:On July 09 2008 07:33 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:On July 09 2008 01:13 ThePhan2m wrote:On July 08 2008 06:28 TheTyranid wrote: This is a good PR. Thank you for putting Flash and JD above Best. He is a great protoss but he just does not have the status that they have; not until he wins an SL at least. Top 3 is perfect and overall it is very accurate. I first thought Hwasin might be a bit low but then realised that both ForGG, Lomo, and Luxury have preformed better against Kal, and Flash respectively. Even though Lomo lost, he elevated his game and pushed the best TvT to a game 5 where as the best TvZ has suddenly dropped and was dominated in 3 straight sets. lol? what kind of excuse is it to put Flash and Jaedong before Best just cuz they once won a starleague? PR shouldnt have shit to do with past preformance, but the moment right now. And for this month, Flash hasnt been as good, And jaedong has made alot of mistakes in his games aswell, some of them just barley made it, but Best in other hand, play like a God! Best is 11-4 in June, Flash is 5-5, and Jaedong 6-5. Isnt this suposed to be an monthly PR? If you base your statements on their overall records for the month you really don't understand the Power Rank and shouldn't be posting Im getting sick of ur short answers for everbody, and not to mention your fanboy powerranks, you really should explain abit more than just post shit like this. I understand the powerrank perfectly, ive been following it for aslong as it existed, and since then, it has had a huge precentage depending on how a persons record has been the last month. What is the point of a PR if you dont take that into consideration?? Tell me what you look at when you do powerank BESIDES how a person has been playing. Cuz in the last months that obviosly has been your reason for taking ppl on and off poweranks. Unless you recently decided to change the whole powerank system into somthing personal. First, mind your manners Second, there is more important stuff to be found by WATCHING the games than by looking solely at the records players have I mean you're the kind of guy who would think that Lucifer should be high on the PR because he had a 9 game win streak. that's not smart
sorry for beeing rude, was early in the morning, and dont judge me of what kind of guy I am, you dont know me. I have actually watched atleast over 70% of all games in PL and SLs this season, and I havent seen any weakness that would make Best anything less deserving the first spot this month. His games has been outstanding, 2 of his losses vs mind(strong player) and really(solid play this month) and rest vs the series vs luxury, where he had a solid comback, after luxurys break into his fast expos. And no, I am not looking solely on the records. When it comes to Lucifer, I never said he should have gotten high spot on PR, he should have gotten one of the last spots on PR, maybe instead of Pure, cuz he actually made himself noticable and showed entertaining starcraft with well exectuded tactics, aswell as he actually he still was in a SL. His play both inventive and bold, compared to Pures (who?) boring play. On PR, wins and losses should have somthing to say to some extent, cuz in the end, thats what matters? If you advance or not, if you win for you team or not. PR should be about the level of entertainment games show, how inventive the tactics are and how well they are exectued. And last but not least, the skill the players show troughout the month.
The level of Best vs Flash and Jaedong is on a different level. These are not cheesy wins, but all solid entertaning play by Best, who wins after playing well all month. But only because he doesnt have any past starleague merits, or your fanscore on him isnt that high, he doesnt "deserve it". Its a matter of perspective. Its the same as when Jaedong did the 4 pool vs hwasin, some players thought "omg, 4pool, how lame, Jaedong you dissapoint me" and some thought "omg, 4 pool, thats fucking bold and cool, amazingly exectued! genious!". Personally I think it was lame, he had a tactic prepared, and ditched it for something cheesy. And you mention it as "wins" in PR, contraditcing yourself, as if it matters, lame way of winning in a quarterfinal. All 3 are good, Im a huge fan of Flash and Best, (not a big Z fan, except for Luxury and maybe Savior ^^) but Flash hasnt showed that impressive play this month. If you watch his looses, its like wtf is up with him, getting utterly raped by Luxury. Where is monster Flash?? it defenitly lacked some top notch. Best still remains as solid, and thats what matters in the end. Jaedong is shaking, allowing sunken breaks, losing hard vs bisu, whats up with that? and his ZvT?? Oo Tell me a good argument that makes Best not deserve the top spot, what is his weakness? Why is he not as good as Flash and Jaedong??? I dont get it, explain yourself. Thanks for reading
|
phant2m - you don't know how best would do in a series versus flash or jaedong. he may be better than both of them, but as of now there's just no evidence to prove it.
lets say, hypothetically, he actually is more skilled than both of them. what if jaedong and flash both have a more advanced sense of game theory than best, so that they both could still beat him in a series? we have no idea.
i just rewatched the jaedong/flash tri-series event from a few months ago, and a game theory edge was the only reason flash beat jaedong, i'm pretty sure, it makes a big difference.
what i'm trying to say is that best is just more unproven, and though we can speculate on his true talent level, there's just a lot less certainty when compared to flash or jaedong.
|
On July 09 2008 20:18 raga4ka wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2008 20:02 Fishbone wrote: I don't really understand some spots this month... But ok. Which one except Sea ? The others are on spot except maybe Kal should have been 8 and July 6. <3 July , this is his OSL and his golden mouse i believe !!
July playing 4 games this month vs horrible toss players. he shouldnt even be as high as 8. Lomo defintly surpass him, and even Hwasin. He got luck, thats why he is in finals. Too bad July wont stand a chance vs Best.
|
On July 10 2008 00:55 traced wrote: phant2m - you don't know how best would do in a series versus flash or jaedong. he may be better than both of them, but as of now there's just no evidence to prove it.
lets say, hypothetically, he actually is more skilled than both of them. what if jaedong and flash both have a more advanced sense of game theory than best, so that they both could still beat him in a series? we have no idea.
i just rewatched the jaedong/flash tri-series event from a few months ago, and a game theory edge was the only reason flash beat jaedong, i'm pretty sure, it makes a big difference. true, hard to judge players when there isnt enough games. But looking at the games Best has played vs 2nd tier players compared to Flashs games vs 2nd tier players. Flash has struggled tbh. BUT atleast if there is gonna be a rank, then there should be an explanation properly why! TLnet really should take PR to next level.
|
Good PR.
Honestly, I read the PR not for the value in itself, but for the hilarious bitchfest that inevitably follows. Just put Sea at #1 next month too to spite everyone.
|
Russian Federation4333 Posts
On July 10 2008 01:00 ThePhan2m wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2008 00:55 traced wrote: phant2m - you don't know how best would do in a series versus flash or jaedong. he may be better than both of them, but as of now there's just no evidence to prove it.
lets say, hypothetically, he actually is more skilled than both of them. what if jaedong and flash both have a more advanced sense of game theory than best, so that they both could still beat him in a series? we have no idea.
i just rewatched the jaedong/flash tri-series event from a few months ago, and a game theory edge was the only reason flash beat jaedong, i'm pretty sure, it makes a big difference. true, hard to judge players when there isnt enough games. But looking at the games Best has played vs 2nd tier players compared to Flashs games vs 2nd tier players. Flash has struggled tbh. BUT atleast if there is gonna be a rank, then there should be an explanation properly why! TLnet really should take PR to next level. PR is going to remain the way it is. You are just pissed off.
The PR determines the current strongest player. You argument is that Best has the best record this month and has played better than anyone else. However you cannot say that Best isstronger atm than JD or Flash. FS said in the Best description that it would be nice to have a clash between the three to sort out who is the best. Tested players get the advantage over untested players when it comes to sorting out who is the strongest. Savior was ranked higher then Bisu after the 0-3 MSL disaster and his fail in the Suprefight. Bisu was ranked higher than Jaedong (who was on a 13 game win streak) last fall despite weaker play and worse record. Only after Jaedong won OSL did he become 1'st. PR ranked Jaedong and Flash over Best because they are STRONGER players.
You also fail to realize how shaky Best was against Luxury and that his win was in large part due to Luxury choking. He looked shakier than Flash did against Lomo, why would you think July has no chance agains Best when his agressive style can capitalize on Best's weaker early game?
|
On July 10 2008 00:55 ThePhan2m wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2008 20:18 raga4ka wrote:On July 09 2008 20:02 Fishbone wrote: I don't really understand some spots this month... But ok. Which one except Sea ? The others are on spot except maybe Kal should have been 8 and July 6. <3 July , this is his OSL and his golden mouse i believe !! July playing 4 games this month vs horrible toss players. he shouldnt even be as high as 8. Lomo defintly surpass him, and even Hwasin. He got luck, thats why he is in finals. Too bad July wont stand a chance vs Best.
One word separates Flash and Jaedong from Best and that is experience . Best is still a rookie in my eyes , but he can prove that he is a champion if he can beat the God of War , and hang with the big boys when they are playing good . I have seen Jaedong end many winning streaks with just lifting a finger such as Ruby's vs zerg streak on Katrina in PL that was a pathetic game and Lucifer's in the MSL who raised the dust here in the PR . Best is certainly better then this two , but he has to prove he ain't just an other up and coming toss he needs to become a champion if people want to take him seriously .
About your comment on the chances July will have vs BEST i can only say: Don't be ignorant !!! Look at reality closely - look at the maps , his opponent , the circumstances . The OSL final is similar to the mach Hwasin vs Jaedong , Best has to win againts the odds or he won't be higher then Flash and JD . Saying that July has no chance vs BEST is like when people said that JD did not stand a chance vs Hwasin and see where that let to . This is even way more ignorant , because of the map pool it favours July who is a monster in ZvP not exactly like Luxury's weakest mach up .
Now please stop weeping about BEST and wait for the OSL final , and pray for him next month .
|
|
|
|