|
On August 15 2009 00:53 Nylan wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2009 00:52 o[twist] wrote:On August 15 2009 00:48 Nylan wrote:On August 15 2009 00:20 TwoToneTerran wrote: I think, if Jaedong wins the OSL overall (he should), he should probably take the #1 spot. If this happens, they kind of break even, with a tie betwixt them, Fantasy kicking Jaedong out of PL and Jaedong kicking Fantasy out of OSL (again!). But I think there's something special to say about a Golden Mouse before the kid turns 20, and that something special should be a #1.
BUT, if the rank went up RIGHT now with Fantasy at #1 and Jaedong at #2, I wouldn't bat an eyelash. I wouldn't necessarily agree, but Fantasy played out of this world too.
Also the loss to Calm shouldn't be put against him, I think. The guy had two semifinals, and from last night's game, it's OBVIOUS what he prioritized, and he prioritized damn well. Retarded excuse, Calm straight up outclassed him, there's no way that can't be put against him no matter how tiring his schedule. It's also interesting to note that if you exclude WCG, then Jaedong can't get higher than a 50% win percentage this month. there's no way calm above jaedong can be justified if he wins back to back osls and a golden mouse this month Did you see anything about Calm's placement in my post?
so how should jaedong's placement be affected then? below iris if iris takes kwanro and one of the titles? actually, there might be some argument for that
|
On August 15 2009 00:48 Nylan wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2009 00:20 TwoToneTerran wrote: I think, if Jaedong wins the OSL overall (he should), he should probably take the #1 spot. If this happens, they kind of break even, with a tie betwixt them, Fantasy kicking Jaedong out of PL and Jaedong kicking Fantasy out of OSL (again!). But I think there's something special to say about a Golden Mouse before the kid turns 20, and that something special should be a #1.
BUT, if the rank went up RIGHT now with Fantasy at #1 and Jaedong at #2, I wouldn't bat an eyelash. I wouldn't necessarily agree, but Fantasy played out of this world too.
Also the loss to Calm shouldn't be put against him, I think. The guy had two semifinals, and from last night's game, it's OBVIOUS what he prioritized, and he prioritized damn well. Retarded excuse, Calm straight up outclassed him, there's no way that can't be put against him no matter how tiring his schedule. It's also interesting to note that if you exclude WCG, then Jaedong can't get higher than a 50% win percentage this month.
You're the kind of guy who said Stork shouldn't have gotten #1 when he won his OSL because he lost to Kal in MSL, aren't you?
|
On August 15 2009 01:46 TwoToneTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2009 00:48 Nylan wrote:On August 15 2009 00:20 TwoToneTerran wrote: I think, if Jaedong wins the OSL overall (he should), he should probably take the #1 spot. If this happens, they kind of break even, with a tie betwixt them, Fantasy kicking Jaedong out of PL and Jaedong kicking Fantasy out of OSL (again!). But I think there's something special to say about a Golden Mouse before the kid turns 20, and that something special should be a #1.
BUT, if the rank went up RIGHT now with Fantasy at #1 and Jaedong at #2, I wouldn't bat an eyelash. I wouldn't necessarily agree, but Fantasy played out of this world too.
Also the loss to Calm shouldn't be put against him, I think. The guy had two semifinals, and from last night's game, it's OBVIOUS what he prioritized, and he prioritized damn well. Retarded excuse, Calm straight up outclassed him, there's no way that can't be put against him no matter how tiring his schedule. It's also interesting to note that if you exclude WCG, then Jaedong can't get higher than a 50% win percentage this month. You're the kind of guy who said Stork shouldn't have gotten #1 when he won his OSL because he lost to Kal in MSL, aren't you?
False accusation is false. Consider the facts.
|
Next power rank should be a tough nut to crack , but it this month still has a long way to go . Looks like every player has his sheer of dominance in one league and a poor performance in the other .
|
On August 15 2009 00:52 o[twist] wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2009 00:48 Nylan wrote:On August 15 2009 00:20 TwoToneTerran wrote: I think, if Jaedong wins the OSL overall (he should), he should probably take the #1 spot. If this happens, they kind of break even, with a tie betwixt them, Fantasy kicking Jaedong out of PL and Jaedong kicking Fantasy out of OSL (again!). But I think there's something special to say about a Golden Mouse before the kid turns 20, and that something special should be a #1.
BUT, if the rank went up RIGHT now with Fantasy at #1 and Jaedong at #2, I wouldn't bat an eyelash. I wouldn't necessarily agree, but Fantasy played out of this world too.
Also the loss to Calm shouldn't be put against him, I think. The guy had two semifinals, and from last night's game, it's OBVIOUS what he prioritized, and he prioritized damn well. Retarded excuse, Calm straight up outclassed him, there's no way that can't be put against him no matter how tiring his schedule. It's also interesting to note that if you exclude WCG, then Jaedong can't get higher than a 50% win percentage this month. there's no way calm above jaedong can be justified if he wins back to back osls and a golden mouse this month it would be hillarious if JD gets the golded mouse but only 2nd or 3rd pr rank
|
|
On August 15 2009 02:01 Nylan wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2009 01:46 TwoToneTerran wrote:On August 15 2009 00:48 Nylan wrote:On August 15 2009 00:20 TwoToneTerran wrote: I think, if Jaedong wins the OSL overall (he should), he should probably take the #1 spot. If this happens, they kind of break even, with a tie betwixt them, Fantasy kicking Jaedong out of PL and Jaedong kicking Fantasy out of OSL (again!). But I think there's something special to say about a Golden Mouse before the kid turns 20, and that something special should be a #1.
BUT, if the rank went up RIGHT now with Fantasy at #1 and Jaedong at #2, I wouldn't bat an eyelash. I wouldn't necessarily agree, but Fantasy played out of this world too.
Also the loss to Calm shouldn't be put against him, I think. The guy had two semifinals, and from last night's game, it's OBVIOUS what he prioritized, and he prioritized damn well. Retarded excuse, Calm straight up outclassed him, there's no way that can't be put against him no matter how tiring his schedule. It's also interesting to note that if you exclude WCG, then Jaedong can't get higher than a 50% win percentage this month. You're the kind of guy who said Stork shouldn't have gotten #1 when he won his OSL because he lost to Kal in MSL, aren't you? False accusation is false. Consider the facts.
Um, it's an analogy, albeit a tongue in cheek one. Did you honestly expect Jaedong to push to the finals in both leagues at once? It's like when he dropped to Effort in GOM, though Calm definitely played very well. If Jaedong loses to Yarnc, then the boy had better drop a few places, but I for one will not fault him for sacrificing a tournament (that he made it to the semifinals anyhow) for one that is obviously much more important to him.
I'm not sure how you could stare a golden mouse, back to back OSL, and an absolutely incredible overall season so poorly, regardless of him not outright winning everything. The worst he did was only making it to GOM quarters, where he dropped it so he could advance in MSL and OSL. Now he gets to the semifinals of both and he makes an obvious choice in beating his toughest competition in Fantasy.
Fact is, Jaedong lost to Calm and Fantasy. Fact ALSO is that Jaedong beat Fantasy in Fantasy's proclaimed best type of series (How many people have said he's some monster bo5er?). I think it's fair enough to atleast mitigate his loss to Calm, seeing as he beat Fantasy in that spectacular series. It's not an outright waive of the loss, but it's certainly a good reason.
In all honesty, I think it comes down to how you rank the leagues. Jaedong has (or seems like he will) triumph in the OSL. Calm has (or, amusingly, seems like he will) triumph in the MSL. Fantasy proved himself in PL.
The only difference here is, while they all did well in their respective leagues, ONLY Jaedong did well in all of them while still remaining top dog in one. Calm was nowhere to be seen in OSL, and fumbled his PL games like Jaedong. Fantasy did very well in the OSL (comparatively to how well Jaedong did in the MSL), WON Proleague with 2 great wins, and did relatively poor in MSL. Jaedong's once a semifinalist(msl), and twice a finalist (PL and OSL). Throw in a respectable showing and GOM and it'd be daft to think Jaedong did anything other than put up monster results this season, regardless of dropping series in ZvZ in the weaker tourneys.
|
I wonder who the favourite will be if Calm meets Iris in the finals both have performed really well recently . Iris 3 - 0d effort in Gom . Would be an awsome final either way . Kwanro vs Calm thought .... i would better get me something to eat and drink while watching .
|
On August 15 2009 02:38 raga4ka wrote: Next power rank should be a tough nut to crack , but it this month still has a long way to go . Looks like every player has his sheer of dominance in one league and a poor performance in the other .
Totally agreed. You guys shouldn't call it so early, saying stuff like "whoever wins osl semi-final b should be first next power rank". The finals for all of the individual leagues (msl, osl, gom) haven't even been played yet, nor have most of the WCG Korea and Stx Masters Cup games (although these aren't as important). Only when you have the whole picture can you say something like "oh, Jaedong must have practiced extra hard for OSL, rather than MSL because he wanted to get revenge on Fantasy for his proleague cheese" or whatever. Right now, the tournaments are still ongoing with the most important matches yet to be played.
On August 15 2009 02:43 TwoToneTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2009 02:01 Nylan wrote:On August 15 2009 01:46 TwoToneTerran wrote:On August 15 2009 00:48 Nylan wrote:On August 15 2009 00:20 TwoToneTerran wrote: I think, if Jaedong wins the OSL overall (he should), he should probably take the #1 spot. If this happens, they kind of break even, with a tie betwixt them, Fantasy kicking Jaedong out of PL and Jaedong kicking Fantasy out of OSL (again!). But I think there's something special to say about a Golden Mouse before the kid turns 20, and that something special should be a #1.
BUT, if the rank went up RIGHT now with Fantasy at #1 and Jaedong at #2, I wouldn't bat an eyelash. I wouldn't necessarily agree, but Fantasy played out of this world too.
Also the loss to Calm shouldn't be put against him, I think. The guy had two semifinals, and from last night's game, it's OBVIOUS what he prioritized, and he prioritized damn well. Retarded excuse, Calm straight up outclassed him, there's no way that can't be put against him no matter how tiring his schedule. It's also interesting to note that if you exclude WCG, then Jaedong can't get higher than a 50% win percentage this month. You're the kind of guy who said Stork shouldn't have gotten #1 when he won his OSL because he lost to Kal in MSL, aren't you? False accusation is false. Consider the facts. Um, it's an analogy, albeit a tongue in cheek one. Did you honestly expect Jaedong to push to the finals in both leagues at once? It's like when he dropped to Effort in GOM, though Calm definitely played very well. If Jaedong loses to Yarnc, then the boy had better drop a few places, but I for one will not fault him for sacrificing a tournament (that he made it to the semifinals anyhow) for one that is obviously much more important to him. I'm not sure how you could stare a golden mouse, back to back OSL, and an absolutely incredible overall season so poorly, regardless of him not outright winning everything. The worst he did was only making it to GOM quarters, where he dropped it so he could advance in MSL and OSL. Now he gets to the semifinals of both and he makes an obvious choice in beating his toughest competition in Fantasy. Fact is, Jaedong lost to Calm and Fantasy. Fact ALSO is that Jaedong beat Fantasy in Fantasy's proclaimed best type of series (How many people have said he's some monster bo5er?). I think it's fair enough to atleast mitigate his loss to Calm, seeing as he beat Fantasy in that spectacular series. It's not an outright waive of the loss, but it's certainly a good reason. In all honesty, I think it comes down to how you rank the leagues. Jaedong has (or seems like he will) triumph in the OSL. Calm has (or, amusingly, seems like he will) triumph in the MSL. Fantasy proved himself in PL. The only difference here is, while they all did well in their respective leagues, ONLY Jaedong did well in all of them while still remaining top dog in one. Calm was nowhere to be seen in OSL, and fumbled his PL games like Jaedong. Fantasy did very well in the OSL (comparatively to how well Jaedong did in the MSL), WON Proleague with 2 great wins, and did relatively poor in MSL. Jaedong's once a semifinalist(msl), and twice a finalist (PL and OSL). Throw in a respectable showing and GOM and it'd be daft to think Jaedong did anything other than put up monster results this season, regardless of dropping series in ZvZ in the weaker tourneys.
Yes, not even Jaedong can handle every opponent, especially when his schedule is so jam packed. MSL semifinals one day, then the OSL semifinals less than 24 hours later? This kind of scheduling is really ridiculous. The fact that he got so far into every tournament is a testament to his vast skill and really amazing ability. If Jaedong managed to win all of them, he would have unquestionably been number 1 and perhaps the jaedong bonjwa threads would be justified. However, no one is that kind of super-human and to perform so well under all of this pressure is really laudable. Just read his interviews and you will see how tired he is, although you could probably guess from his schedule.
|
On August 15 2009 03:38 ghostWriter wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2009 02:38 raga4ka wrote: Next power rank should be a tough nut to crack , but it this month still has a long way to go . Looks like every player has his sheer of dominance in one league and a poor performance in the other . You guys shouldn't call it so early, saying stuff like "whoever wins osl semi-final b should be first next power rank". I figure Jaedong and Fantasy are the two baddest mofos around, and that which of them is badder can reasonably be determined by their bo5 result.
|
On August 15 2009 03:42 Severedevil wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2009 03:38 ghostWriter wrote:On August 15 2009 02:38 raga4ka wrote: Next power rank should be a tough nut to crack , but it this month still has a long way to go . Looks like every player has his sheer of dominance in one league and a poor performance in the other . You guys shouldn't call it so early, saying stuff like "whoever wins osl semi-final b should be first next power rank". I figure Jaedong and Fantasy are the two baddest mofos around, and that which of them is badder can reasonably be determined by their bo5 result.
If only it were that simple...
|
I think Jaedong is the overall stronger player, but on any given day, Fantasy can snipe the crap right out of the Tyrant.
|
+ Show Spoiler +JD just raped Fantasy out of OSL, we can argue that Jaedong might be able to reclaim his #1 spot (or Calm/Bisu) if he shows more positive results but Fantasy should not since he is out of OSL, MSL, AND Gom.
|
On August 15 2009 02:43 TwoToneTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2009 02:01 Nylan wrote:On August 15 2009 01:46 TwoToneTerran wrote:On August 15 2009 00:48 Nylan wrote:On August 15 2009 00:20 TwoToneTerran wrote: I think, if Jaedong wins the OSL overall (he should), he should probably take the #1 spot. If this happens, they kind of break even, with a tie betwixt them, Fantasy kicking Jaedong out of PL and Jaedong kicking Fantasy out of OSL (again!). But I think there's something special to say about a Golden Mouse before the kid turns 20, and that something special should be a #1.
BUT, if the rank went up RIGHT now with Fantasy at #1 and Jaedong at #2, I wouldn't bat an eyelash. I wouldn't necessarily agree, but Fantasy played out of this world too.
Also the loss to Calm shouldn't be put against him, I think. The guy had two semifinals, and from last night's game, it's OBVIOUS what he prioritized, and he prioritized damn well. Retarded excuse, Calm straight up outclassed him, there's no way that can't be put against him no matter how tiring his schedule. It's also interesting to note that if you exclude WCG, then Jaedong can't get higher than a 50% win percentage this month. You're the kind of guy who said Stork shouldn't have gotten #1 when he won his OSL because he lost to Kal in MSL, aren't you? False accusation is false. Consider the facts. Um, it's an analogy, albeit a tongue in cheek one. Did you honestly expect Jaedong to push to the finals in both leagues at once? It's like when he dropped to Effort in GOM, though Calm definitely played very well. If Jaedong loses to Yarnc, then the boy had better drop a few places, but I for one will not fault him for sacrificing a tournament (that he made it to the semifinals anyhow) for one that is obviously much more important to him. I'm not sure how you could stare a golden mouse, back to back OSL, and an absolutely incredible overall season so poorly, regardless of him not outright winning everything. The worst he did was only making it to GOM quarters, where he dropped it so he could advance in MSL and OSL. Now he gets to the semifinals of both and he makes an obvious choice in beating his toughest competition in Fantasy. Fact is, Jaedong lost to Calm and Fantasy. Fact ALSO is that Jaedong beat Fantasy in Fantasy's proclaimed best type of series (How many people have said he's some monster bo5er?). I think it's fair enough to atleast mitigate his loss to Calm, seeing as he beat Fantasy in that spectacular series. It's not an outright waive of the loss, but it's certainly a good reason. In all honesty, I think it comes down to how you rank the leagues. Jaedong has (or seems like he will) triumph in the OSL. Calm has (or, amusingly, seems like he will) triumph in the MSL. Fantasy proved himself in PL. The only difference here is, while they all did well in their respective leagues, ONLY Jaedong did well in all of them while still remaining top dog in one. Calm was nowhere to be seen in OSL, and fumbled his PL games like Jaedong. Fantasy did very well in the OSL (comparatively to how well Jaedong did in the MSL), WON Proleague with 2 great wins, and did relatively poor in MSL. Jaedong's once a semifinalist(msl), and twice a finalist (PL and OSL). Throw in a respectable showing and GOM and it'd be daft to think Jaedong did anything other than put up monster results this season, regardless of dropping series in ZvZ in the weaker tourneys.
Yes, the weight of his losses should be lessened, but they should NOT be counted out or not considered balance-tipping. Calm's victory absolutely has to be counted against him to some extent, as it was not only indicative of his performance this month but it is a failing. Dropping out of a league has always been more likely to drop someone a rank than that person not being in a particular league - just look at Bisu right now. Those games were part of Jaedong's play this month, and as such have to be considered when judging JD's overall this performance this month. Even with the dampener that is scheduling, it can't just be considered a minor detail, it's what he's done this month. It being a ZvZ also mirrors your "Fantasy Bo5 King failure" argument.
I do agree that ranking the leagues has a lot to do with it as well, of course. My thoughts trend more towards the fact that not only is PL considered most important (according to many interviews...although not without argument), but it was the actual PL final, whereas this OSL match was only a semifinal and thus of lesser significance, something that cannot be ignored. Fantasy beat JD on the bigger stage by both of those criteria, so I think he's got the edge as of now.
Of course, there's still half a month to go, so yeah Jaedong has more opportunities to move up (and the golden mouse is a biggie). As it stands, however, he's not #1. No player with a 4-7 record should really be given such consideration.
I must also take issue with your analysis of how well each player did in the leagues though, as fantasy only fell to Bisu, who is not only one of the best players out there but also his teammate. You must also factor in the (relatively small) detail that the SKT players didn't have a shot at GOM, as small of a footnote as it may be.
Once again, we've still got half a month, so we'll see what happens.
|
On August 14 2009 05:22 iamho wrote: funny how people are already demanding certain players in certain ranks when the month is only half over
|
Why not? It's not like anyone's saying X is number 2, no matter what.
|
Fantasy played in proleague with far more prep time than Jaedong. The Dong had to practice against both Bisu and Fantasy for every ace match; Fantasy knew which ace matches he would play and which player he'd be against. Further, Fantasy had a large expanse of free time to prepare sick vs. Z builds in the windup to Proleague Finals; Jaedong had more individual leagues and had to prepare vs. CJ. (Although JD should not have lost vs. Hyuk. That was stupid.)
With the advantages, Fantasy won handily. On an equal field, in a best of five, Jaedong won handily. As such, I view Jaedong's victory more favorably than Fantasy's.
|
Jaedong had to practice vs Calm too. Although if you read his interview, it didn't seem like he practiced too much for the MSL in comparison to the OSL.
|
On August 15 2009 03:57 TwoToneTerran wrote: I think Jaedong is the overall stronger player, but on any given day, Fantasy can snipe the crap right out of the Tyrant.
Words of wisdom right there, yo.
|
On August 15 2009 06:56 Avidkeystamper wrote: Jaedong had to practice vs Calm too. Although if you read his interview, it didn't seem like he practiced too much for the MSL in comparison to the OSL.
Of course. Not only is the OSL a more prestigious tournament, he has the chance to win a golden mouse. Then you have his desire for revenge for the proleague grand finals and you can see why he put way more effort into the osl semi-finals (although if he advanced vs calm, he probably would have won msl as well).
|
|
|
|