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On August 27 2009 03:58 ghostWriter wrote: lol top zerg and top terran? effort is below jaedong and calm and maybe even kwanro and his zvt is his worst matchup statistically. iris is not consistent enough to be a top terran. He keeps dropping games to random noobs like odin and perfectman.
Also, it's only wcg. Doubtless, the players want to win, but I don't think that they put in the same effort they put into proleague or individual leagues.
just a month or two ago i was reading that ZvT was effort's strongest matchup. i said "a top zerg" which is completely undeniable. flash steamrolled iris in a finals match that showed the best TvT in history. come on
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Hell just earlier in this thread, GhostWriter was being an apologist for Effort's ZvT losses, saying he's still very good but it was flukish for him to lose to Iris. But when Flash beats Effort? BOY THAT KID, SO BAD, WCG IS BAD TOURNEY
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JD is the first player since Boxer to win back to back OSLs and has become the youngest winner of a golden mouse ever. Despite his Proleague colapse and clear lack of MSL preparation, I think it's a disservice to his accomplishments to give him anything but the #1 spot.
I've really come to dislike Fantasy, but I can still see him at #2 for being T1's backbone vs. Oz. I think the way he lost his composure and played like pure shit in set3 and set4 of the OSL semis is indication enough that he's still at least a step behind JD.
I love Iris, but he should pretty clearly be below Flash imo. The Bisu win was very impressive, but the way he fell apart vs. Kwanro was pretty inexcusable . Maybe I just feel this way since his win over Bisu was so early in the ranking period...
I expect the rank to look like:
1. Jaedong 2. Fantasy 3. MSL winner 4. Bisu/Flash winner 5. MSL loser 6. Bisu/Flash loser 7. Iris 8. Yarc 9. Stork 10. Effort
with possibly 2 and 3 switched, 4 and 5 switched, 7 and 8 switched, and/or a different 10 due to Effort's lack of noteworthy games over the period. I just can't see anyone else @ 10, there just aren't enough games (cept for Luxury's 4 game win WCG win streak, WOOOO GO LUX!!!)
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On August 27 2009 04:34 TwoToneTerran wrote: Hell just earlier in this thread, GhostWriter was being an apologist for Effort's ZvT losses, saying he's still very good but it was flukish for him to lose to Iris. But when Flash beats Effort? BOY THAT KID, SO BAD, WCG IS BAD TOURNEY
Standard thinking at TL. Player is good only till he losses to Flash. Once Flash win against him it means that the guy is just over-hyped and/or is slumping and his XvT match-up his his worst one.
Also, Flash performs well in a tournament it means it is not important, like proleague, Gom, WCG. Even if he was owning in OSL people would say he has weak competition, or that OSL that season sucks...
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Whenever Flash does good, he just beats the other player too easily so it seems like they're not playing to their full potential. :D
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On August 27 2009 04:43 Mogwai wrote:JD is the first player since Boxer to win back to back OSLs and has become the youngest winner of a golden mouse ever. Despite his Proleague colapse and clear lack of MSL preparation, I think it's a disservice to his accomplishments to give him anything but the #1 spot. I've really come to dislike Fantasy, but I can still see him at #2 for being T1's backbone vs. Oz. I think the way he lost his composure and played like pure shit in set3 and set4 of the OSL semis is indication enough that he's still at least a step behind JD. I love Iris, but he should pretty clearly be below Flash imo. The Bisu win was very impressive, but the way he fell apart vs. Kwanro was pretty inexcusable . Maybe I just feel this way since his win over Bisu was so early in the ranking period... I expect the rank to look like: 1. Jaedong 2. Fantasy 3. MSL winner 4. Bisu/Flash winner 5. MSL loser 6. Bisu/Flash loser 7. Iris 8. Yarc 9. Stork 10. Effort with possibly 2 and 3 switched, 4 and 5 switched, 7 and 8 switched, and/or a different 10 due to Effort's lack of noteworthy games over the period. I just can't see anyone else @ 10, there just aren't enough games (cept for Luxury's 4 game win WCG win streak, WOOOO GO LUX!!!)
i CANT be more agree with you <3 . you really did some good post here .
your PR is pretty good , but i would personnaly do this :
1 jaedong 2 MSL winner 3 bisu/flash winner 4 fantasy 5 MSL loser 6 bisu/flash loser 7 yarnc 8 iris 9 stork 10 effort
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On August 27 2009 04:43 Mogwai wrote:JD is the first player since Boxer to win back to back OSLs and has become the youngest winner of a golden mouse ever. Despite his Proleague colapse and clear lack of MSL preparation, I think it's a disservice to his accomplishments to give him anything but the #1 spot. I've really come to dislike Fantasy, but I can still see him at #2 for being T1's backbone vs. Oz. I think the way he lost his composure and played like pure shit in set3 and set4 of the OSL semis is indication enough that he's still at least a step behind JD. I love Iris, but he should pretty clearly be below Flash imo. The Bisu win was very impressive, but the way he fell apart vs. Kwanro was pretty inexcusable . Maybe I just feel this way since his win over Bisu was so early in the ranking period... I expect the rank to look like: 1. Jaedong 2. Fantasy 3. MSL winner 4. Bisu/Flash winner 5. MSL loser 6. Bisu/Flash loser 7. Iris 8. Yarc 9. Stork 10. Effort with possibly 2 and 3 switched, 4 and 5 switched, 7 and 8 switched, and/or a different 10 due to Effort's lack of noteworthy games over the period. I just can't see anyone else @ 10, there just aren't enough games (cept for Luxury's 4 game win WCG win streak, WOOOO GO LUX!!!)
Why? Fantasy is a decent guy, he's not bm or anything. Also, your rank is not bad, but it's been a pretty dry month since all the more prestigious leagues are over =/ I wouldn't put luxury up there though, his non-wcg performance has been abysmal, especially for the MSL winner, while effort's proleague performance was extraordinary. Also, given how stork just mauled Fantasy and made him look horrible, I might put him above yarnc as well. I know yarnc got to the finals in the osl but beating go.go and type-b doesn't really impress me that much and he made the osl finals the most boring finals ever. Jaedong just took him out, there was no point in any of the games where it looked like he had even a slight advantage.
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Effort's spot on the PR is going to be entirely grandfathered in from last PR. Since last PR all he's done is gone 2-2, wins against Really and losses to Flash. Proleague wasn't even a factor for this month/pr. Same could go for Yarnc, really, since all he did was beat a weak player (type b) and get stomped by a strong one (JD).
I'm not actually against a player retaining PRship through common knowledge of how good he is, regardless of a mediocre, dry month. But we all know how finicky the prospect of benefit of the doubt can be.
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On August 27 2009 17:52 TwoToneTerran wrote: Effort's spot on the PR is going to be entirely grandfathered in from last PR. Since last PR all he's done is gone 2-2, wins against Really and losses to Flash. Proleague wasn't even a factor for this month/pr. Same could go for Yarnc, really, since all he did was beat a weak player (type b) and get stomped by a strong one (JD).
I'm not actually against a player retaining PRship through common knowledge of how good he is, regardless of a mediocre, dry month. But we all know how finicky the prospect of benefit of the doubt can be. The whole grandfathering makes sense, but only if there are < 10 solid/active performers. Which players should be grandfathered and what spot they get is going to be pretty subjective, though.
Effort also won blizzcon, at least I seem to remember that, anyway. If winning blizzcon is worth anything.
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On August 27 2009 20:46 integral wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2009 17:52 TwoToneTerran wrote: Effort's spot on the PR is going to be entirely grandfathered in from last PR. Since last PR all he's done is gone 2-2, wins against Really and losses to Flash. Proleague wasn't even a factor for this month/pr. Same could go for Yarnc, really, since all he did was beat a weak player (type b) and get stomped by a strong one (JD).
I'm not actually against a player retaining PRship through common knowledge of how good he is, regardless of a mediocre, dry month. But we all know how finicky the prospect of benefit of the doubt can be. The whole grandfathering makes sense, but only if there are < 10 solid/active performers. Which players should be grandfathered and what spot they get is going to be pretty subjective, though. Effort also won blizzcon, at least I seem to remember that, anyway. If winning blizzcon is worth anything.
Considering the top non-EffOrt player at Blizzcon was, uh...
Zero? Nada? Ret? No, I don't think it does.
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lol watching stork vs. fantasy and thinking back to his games against upmagic and other games, it seems like he ALWAYS loses his fast nexus to a bunker and ALWAYS ends up winning anyway
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It's almost fall. I think everyone knows what that means.
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Norway1530 Posts
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On August 27 2009 17:22 ghostWriter wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2009 04:43 Mogwai wrote:JD is the first player since Boxer to win back to back OSLs and has become the youngest winner of a golden mouse ever. Despite his Proleague colapse and clear lack of MSL preparation, I think it's a disservice to his accomplishments to give him anything but the #1 spot. I've really come to dislike Fantasy, but I can still see him at #2 for being T1's backbone vs. Oz. I think the way he lost his composure and played like pure shit in set3 and set4 of the OSL semis is indication enough that he's still at least a step behind JD. I love Iris, but he should pretty clearly be below Flash imo. The Bisu win was very impressive, but the way he fell apart vs. Kwanro was pretty inexcusable . Maybe I just feel this way since his win over Bisu was so early in the ranking period... I expect the rank to look like: 1. Jaedong 2. Fantasy 3. MSL winner 4. Bisu/Flash winner 5. MSL loser 6. Bisu/Flash loser 7. Iris 8. Yarc 9. Stork 10. Effort with possibly 2 and 3 switched, 4 and 5 switched, 7 and 8 switched, and/or a different 10 due to Effort's lack of noteworthy games over the period. I just can't see anyone else @ 10, there just aren't enough games (cept for Luxury's 4 game win WCG win streak, WOOOO GO LUX!!!) Why? Fantasy is a decent guy, he's not bm or anything. Also, your rank is not bad, but it's been a pretty dry month since all the more prestigious leagues are over =/ I wouldn't put luxury up there though, his non-wcg performance has been abysmal, especially for the MSL winner, while effort's proleague performance was extraordinary. Also, given how stork just mauled Fantasy and made him look horrible, I might put him above yarnc as well. I know yarnc got to the finals in the osl but beating go.go and type-b doesn't really impress me that much and he made the osl finals the most boring finals ever. Jaedong just took him out, there was no point in any of the games where it looked like he had even a slight advantage.
oh, I don't really dislike Fantasy as a person or anything, I just fuckin' hate Vultures :p. I dunno, Fantasy's playstyle just emphasizes everything I hate about Terran. I guess it also bothers me with the whole way he handles himself in tough times. I think TL.net blows the OoV factor way out of proportion and are being unfair when they say shit like OoV/Boxer vs. Jaedong or w/e, but I still wish a player of his caliber could just handle himself after a loss and rebound. Perhaps it's not fair of me to expect that from him, I mean, everyone handles adversity differently, but I prefer the player who has the confidence to just say, "w/e cheezy bastard got me with a 4 pool" to himself rather than the one who needs his coach's reassurance.
I wasn't serious about luxury. I love the guy, but showing some decent play in WCG is definitely not enough to convince anyone that he's back to his MSL-winning form. I mean, after he roflstomps Bisu, there might be a case for putting him @ 10, but I still think it would be a disservice to not keep Effort on the list while being pretty much obligated to put Kwanro on the list...
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
Well, last night should have definitely cleared things up. After Fantasy's loss to Stork and Bisu's 2-1 dispatching of Flash, I'd say they're about even right now. Fantasy's Proleague stomping of Jaedong should win him enough points to make up for his lackluster performance in the OSL. Bisu's solid play against Flash should somewhat make up for his horrible failure against Iris. But if he manages to get 2-0'ed by Lux, then much is to be reconsidered.
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On August 27 2009 17:22 ghostWriter wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2009 04:43 Mogwai wrote:JD is the first player since Boxer to win back to back OSLs and has become the youngest winner of a golden mouse ever. Despite his Proleague colapse and clear lack of MSL preparation, I think it's a disservice to his accomplishments to give him anything but the #1 spot. I've really come to dislike Fantasy, but I can still see him at #2 for being T1's backbone vs. Oz. I think the way he lost his composure and played like pure shit in set3 and set4 of the OSL semis is indication enough that he's still at least a step behind JD. I love Iris, but he should pretty clearly be below Flash imo. The Bisu win was very impressive, but the way he fell apart vs. Kwanro was pretty inexcusable . Maybe I just feel this way since his win over Bisu was so early in the ranking period... I expect the rank to look like: 1. Jaedong 2. Fantasy 3. MSL winner 4. Bisu/Flash winner 5. MSL loser 6. Bisu/Flash loser 7. Iris 8. Yarc 9. Stork 10. Effort with possibly 2 and 3 switched, 4 and 5 switched, 7 and 8 switched, and/or a different 10 due to Effort's lack of noteworthy games over the period. I just can't see anyone else @ 10, there just aren't enough games (cept for Luxury's 4 game win WCG win streak, WOOOO GO LUX!!!) Why? Fantasy is a decent guy, he's not bm or anything. Also, your rank is not bad, but it's been a pretty dry month since all the more prestigious leagues are over =/ I wouldn't put luxury up there though, his non-wcg performance has been abysmal, especially for the MSL winner, while effort's proleague performance was extraordinary. Also, given how stork just mauled Fantasy and made him look horrible, I might put him above yarnc as well. I know yarnc got to the finals in the osl but beating go.go and type-b doesn't really impress me that much and he made the osl finals the most boring finals ever. Jaedong just took him out, there was no point in any of the games where it looked like he had even a slight advantage.
Fantasy is not bm? Go read his recent interview, he is arrogant as hell
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On August 28 2009 04:12 AzureEye wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2009 17:22 ghostWriter wrote:On August 27 2009 04:43 Mogwai wrote:JD is the first player since Boxer to win back to back OSLs and has become the youngest winner of a golden mouse ever. Despite his Proleague colapse and clear lack of MSL preparation, I think it's a disservice to his accomplishments to give him anything but the #1 spot. I've really come to dislike Fantasy, but I can still see him at #2 for being T1's backbone vs. Oz. I think the way he lost his composure and played like pure shit in set3 and set4 of the OSL semis is indication enough that he's still at least a step behind JD. I love Iris, but he should pretty clearly be below Flash imo. The Bisu win was very impressive, but the way he fell apart vs. Kwanro was pretty inexcusable . Maybe I just feel this way since his win over Bisu was so early in the ranking period... I expect the rank to look like: 1. Jaedong 2. Fantasy 3. MSL winner 4. Bisu/Flash winner 5. MSL loser 6. Bisu/Flash loser 7. Iris 8. Yarc 9. Stork 10. Effort with possibly 2 and 3 switched, 4 and 5 switched, 7 and 8 switched, and/or a different 10 due to Effort's lack of noteworthy games over the period. I just can't see anyone else @ 10, there just aren't enough games (cept for Luxury's 4 game win WCG win streak, WOOOO GO LUX!!!) Why? Fantasy is a decent guy, he's not bm or anything. Also, your rank is not bad, but it's been a pretty dry month since all the more prestigious leagues are over =/ I wouldn't put luxury up there though, his non-wcg performance has been abysmal, especially for the MSL winner, while effort's proleague performance was extraordinary. Also, given how stork just mauled Fantasy and made him look horrible, I might put him above yarnc as well. I know yarnc got to the finals in the osl but beating go.go and type-b doesn't really impress me that much and he made the osl finals the most boring finals ever. Jaedong just took him out, there was no point in any of the games where it looked like he had even a slight advantage. Fantasy is not bm? Go read his recent interview, he is arrogant as hell Fantasy's press statements are all devised by Oov anyways.
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swarm season is almost over boys
the fall is coming again
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On August 27 2009 21:37 Musoeun wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2009 20:46 integral wrote:On August 27 2009 17:52 TwoToneTerran wrote: Effort's spot on the PR is going to be entirely grandfathered in from last PR. Since last PR all he's done is gone 2-2, wins against Really and losses to Flash. Proleague wasn't even a factor for this month/pr. Same could go for Yarnc, really, since all he did was beat a weak player (type b) and get stomped by a strong one (JD).
I'm not actually against a player retaining PRship through common knowledge of how good he is, regardless of a mediocre, dry month. But we all know how finicky the prospect of benefit of the doubt can be. The whole grandfathering makes sense, but only if there are < 10 solid/active performers. Which players should be grandfathered and what spot they get is going to be pretty subjective, though. Effort also won blizzcon, at least I seem to remember that, anyway. If winning blizzcon is worth anything. Considering the top non-EffOrt player at Blizzcon was, uh... Zero? Nada? Ret? No, I don't think it does.
lol! It proves he doesnt choke when he needs to win. Blizzcon was still a nice tourney win and was the most signifant win since last PR except OSL final
Bisu did nothing since last powerrank (2 map win over flash) Skyhigh (absolute zero since last powerrank huge fail blizzcon) Iris (huge suckouts vs flash and kwamro) Type-b (.........) canata (pld nothing) Yarn (losses and more losses since last PR) Fantasy (nothing but losses since last PR)
my ranking
1.Jaedong 2.Calm 3.Kwanro 4.Flash 5.Effort 6.Bisu 7.Stork 8.Luxury (hes winning matches omg!) 9.Zero
Who else can you even rank?
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