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----Zerus Division---- -------by ConCentrate
NA EU KR SEA
Playable 152x 152
The map
I wanted a map with diagonal symmetry that we don’t see very often, it forces the player to expand towards the enemy hoping to create some tension that will result in aggression but trying to not over punish players gong for long games. For this the 4th base at the bottom is close to main/natural for fast reinforcements and have a choke leading to one of the bridges and the bottom-right corner.
Another possible 4th is at 6 o’clock, it can be sieged from highground but once its safe, leads to a possible 5th on the top-left corner and a siege on opponents 4th or 5th.
The river and bridges of the map are meant to avoid huge open area between bases. Having such kind of obstacle on lower ground makes it easier to break enemy’s position than if it was made with high grounds.
Pictures + Show Spoiler +
Map analyser + Show Spoiler +
As always, Feedback is appreciated. EDIT: fixes/updates + Show Spoiler +v. 1.1 river smoothing v. 1.2 more space behind bases v. 1.3 natural and 3rd changes v. 1.4 ramps added to highground at right Previous map: Mar Sara's Canyon
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This is a nice map. You need to smoothen the river edges a bit tho.
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I'm no expert but... Seems like it would be really easy to turtle to 3 bases. For Zerg, they're very close and the 3rd is on the high ground. For Protoss, the ramp on the other side of the 3rd is really small, and blocking that off makes all attacks come from one defensible point. Also hard to drop because the 3rd and nat both protect the main.
I feel like widening the nat and the 3rd would utilize the empty space towards the middle better and make the bases slightly harder to hold also. Make the ramps to the 3rd a little larger.
The late game expansions to 4th and 5th are a good dynamic though. If one player expands one way, its really easy to see the other player expanding the other way.
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Really nice map. I have only 3 things to say :
- The 3rd should be a bit further away from the 2nd base - Some cliffs don't look natural, they are too straight (especially the ones at the top left of the map), you should randomize that a bit to make it look more natural - The rock doodads look weird and out of place.
I love the textures and the layout though
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The map looks pretty legit, but may I suggest increasing the width of the bridge connecting the two sides.
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Thank you all for the feedback, fixed somethings. @JessicaSc2, damn I completely forgot about the smoothing tool. Spent a few hours using the regular tool and couldn't make it any less angled.
@Isarios & algue, the natural and 3rd mineral lines are still the same, but the bases were reshaped and a good portion of terrain was removed, now there's more low ground space between them and this should make the feel a bit further from each other. Also, less straight lines, and more space behind the natural (3rd had enough already).
The rocks were made to separate the base from the outsides, and I needed something because they are on the same height (no cliff), but yeah... they sucked. Made it like my previous map with a thin outline of lower ground separating the base from th exterior. Ramps are larger now.
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Cool, this map looks very playable.
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I really like it. Nice aesthetics, the base progression is very nice, good paths around the edges of the map. Minor gripe: the main's mineral line is really close to the cliff and that might make it really easy to cannon rush. Maybe move it away from the cliff by ~2 squares?
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Awesome textures! And I really should say that I like this map because it has a nice aesthetic and the layout is dynamic but also normal enough to be easily viable.
Nice redo also. The 3rd feels a little more like what I'd expect now. Slightly farther, easier to get up the far ramp.
I'd say that I'd really love to see some more up and down contour on the map's center though. High ground blocking allows for more hidden traps: pylons, HT, overlords to scout. Also gives a little more dynamic to using air or siege units in the center. Is it possible to make those grey cliffs in the center have a ramp you could go up on? And perhaps add some LoS blockers like on Frost on the map? On Frost they really make it dynamic in hiding armies and pylons. Jaedong loses to a lot of things like hidden armies and not scouting out pylons. ZvZ this is fun because it allows you to hide roaches and make cooler concaves... I think some of Scarlett's games show this.
This would also allow for more proxy tech locations and make use of the wide openness of the central area without adding more blocks for chokes if you want to keep it open and a strong place for zerg armies to get a surround. Surrounds would also be even better for the strategic player by hiding units within the LoS blockers.
I'd recommend LoS blockers at the closer ramp of the 3rd to the main. This could be used 2 fold. Hides attacker units/pylons or can be used by Zerg to place another army there and make an easy concave on the center area if a Protoss attempts to attack in. Another as a pocket around the two sides of the lake... Could be used to land medivacs to attack 3rd and 4th, or pylons and HT to sandwich armies. Also makes it easier to aggress the 3rd base as a 2 base protoss. Makes taking 3rd bases a little more difficult if you're bad at scouting while not mucking with the actual map's ramps or distance anymore. Another could be between the 2 bases towards the bottom right. And maybe some hiding the top corner base from view. Extra incentive to take that base, also gives places to hide HTs to storm passing armies on the very top.
In general it looks a little undynamic in terms of being able to use the space and contour you've given. Having more high ground within the center would give air units more dynamic too, ex Vikings kiting Colossus. Would make a Protoss push easier to tickle down if the Terran player needs more time to make units for the impending deathball push. Again, a strategic use that could be aided by terrain. You can see that done a lot on Alterzim PvT. (Why anyone would want to play TvP on that map boggles my mind though). Alterzim is a good example though of too much space and too many places to hide things, though mostly because of its sheer size... you could easily hide whole bases on that map.
Also, looks more like Yellowstone/Yosemite than Zerus to me. Haha. It has a very calm look. Dark granite looking rock. Lots of evergreen models.
Have you seen the river valleys there? Where the water runs all through the meadows at about 1-2 feet deep? Really colorful, lots of green and wildlife. At dusk, the sunset really glitters off the water. I wonder if its possible to do that effect on the Sc2 editor. Maybe not for this map. http://www.wimp.com/wolvesrivers/
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+ Show Spoiler + A liked your idea better. On the other hand, I think the high ground on the left is too small to make it into a pod, it would almost be like two ramps leading to each other, sure you can place some tanks there, but don't think would be as significative as the one on the right. I could make it larger though, but wouldn't it choke too much the ground closer to the 3rd or the one closer to the river?
Now that you mention I do miss LoS blockers but I didn't get where you want me put them. Could you be more (graphically) especific ?
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On March 14 2014 03:43 ConCentrate405 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +A liked your idea better. On the other hand, I think the high ground on the left is too small to make it into a pod, it would almost be like two ramps leading to each other, sure you can place some tanks there, but don't think would be as significative as the one on the right. I could make it larger though, but wouldn't it choke too much the ground closer to the 3rd or the one closer to the river? Now that you mention I do miss LoS blockers but I didn't get where you want me put them. Could you be more (graphically) especific ?
I actually think this is a bad idea to have ramps on both sides. I'd make it have the ramp only on the side closer to the water. When you add two ramps the strategic use of the high ground is gone. You will always want to move your army up that way if you cross the low bridge. Having it only on one side makes for good pylon/overlord/HT hiding or hiding a ranged army. Actually, I think a better idea is to put the ramp on the top-left side, parallel to the river. This makes it neither offensive or defensive, can be used for both holding and aggressing the 4th base. My concept is to use that high ground strategically, instead of making it a safe path to walk over by having only one ramp so its a one way thing. If you always pick to use the feature, its just "safe" instead of "strategic"
I should say that this is your map and that I am no expert. haha, I'm only giving some advice as a layman. This is why I don't know how to use the editor to make more accurate pictures to describe the LoS's.
I'll try and edit this later and be more specific. =)
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Just one ramp would make that position too protected. Imagine a couple of colossus and a pylon for reinforcements. Zerg will have a much harder time do defend the 6 oclock base if the access is by one ramp only. Terrans can move their tanks from the middle of the map and negate that base without much trouble. I know preventing this should be a part of the map strategy, but still, such a strong position.
The two ramps I placed (for test of course) should make it easier to break because they are close to the "best firing spot" and allow some sniping from behind (from the river side). From the defensive perspective, if you decide to break the rocks and take there as your 3rd, you can control the bridge and on both sides of the base with a simple wall-of or few units by the one ramp or cliff walking your colossus. You could do it with any set of ramps I guess, but the more accessible you make that area, higher is chance of players fighting for it = less turtle, less free base sniping, less proxy pylons for immortal all ins etc.
But keep giving feedback I'm not afraid of changing if you convince me.
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Cool. I rescind my thought process. Yours is better. Two ramps sounds good. Agreed I overlooked that its just a tad too close to the base, colossus and tanks would both be pretty annoying.
LoS (mirrored): In between the 9oclock base and the smaller high ground. From the ramp closer to the bottomleft base to the end of the grey high ground rock. A small line of weeds around the diagonal sides of the lake. Think ferns/cattails around a river or something. Maybe only 2 or 3 squares of hidden area. Perhaps an incomplete line in the middle of the two open areas in the center. Like on Akilon. LoS blocking view of the top left base (on both sides) coming off the arc of the dark rock making a line to the ramp. Created like this would make that top area very easy to create traps like HT or army surrounds.
,,, You know... now that I think about it, I'm not sure my ideas for where to LoS are good. I think the map could really use them because its so flat and plain and theres very little place to hide anything or get sneaky surrounds. Also a lot of the defensive positions are on high ground, so they can see pretty clearly around the area. Also ling scouts will have completely unimpeded sight on the ground so it makes it pretty hard to hide anything.
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Put some LoS blockers at the top left base and between the 9 and middle highground as Isarios suggested. I'm afraid of overdoing so I stop here. I think we're done for here, unless some one finds a hidden mistake thats not much else to fix. Final version (1.4) already uploaded. Thank you all for helping inproving it.
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Aite. Would anyone want to test it with me? =) I play Protoss, not very good at Random.
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Played a game today and noticed something, but I am no quite sure. I wanted to wall off that large ramp of the expansion that forms a triangle with ur main and natural but it seemed like the gas was preventing me from doing a proper wall. Is this intented? I'd reposition the gas a little if not.
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oops.. definetly not intentional, that foward 3rd on Yeonsu still gives me headache to wall off. Fixed version 1.5 is up. + Show Spoiler +
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