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Old version: + Show Spoiler +
Sound Simulacra is a 2P melee map (116x148 bounds) with 12 bases. There are two naturals and two main ramps; however, placing a town hall (Nexus, Hatchery, etc) at either natural creates a full wall off at that position (additionally, taking both naturals completely walls off those three bases).
This map is an experiment in seeing if this sort of alternative main-nat structure is viable. Some builds still work with minor adjustments in these conditions; for instance a forge fast is still possible if you build the structures you would normally use to wall at the second main ramp. Some builds become interesting, for instance early three hatch play sees a completely walled in zerg, which hurts and helps them in different ways.
The added danger of rush builds given two main entrances is mitigated somewhat by the incredibly long distance of the second ramp; the back ramp is about normal distance from the other back ramp, but the forward ramp is an astounding distance away from any other main ramp. Hopefully players will thereby have enough time to wall the back ramp first and then wall the forward ramp in early push situations, however the map may need to be adjusted if this is not the case (a simple solution would be putting debris at the top of the main ramps to make it easier to wall them).
Another concern is the added exposure of the town hall structures to attack. The natural expansion town halls are very exposed, which may increase the power of sniping to an unfavorable degree. This remains to be examined; however, to mitigate this, each natural choke is lined with LoS blocking curtains and the town hall positions are placed as far back as possible into the chokepoint. Additionally, each natural choke has a high cliff area that is accessible from the main.
I am eager to see if such a layout is workable, because it would allow for some interesting maps to be created using it.
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Wow I've never seen anything like it before... I hope it works! Definitely gonna try it.
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I.... I can't tell if this works or not. Which is probably a good thing.
I think Terran would have too easy of a time sniping hatcheries with bio vs 3 hatch in TvZ with little potential for counterattacks from the Zerg.
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On July 25 2014 10:35 L3monsta wrote: Wow I've never seen anything like it before... I hope it works! Definitely gonna try it. My sentiments exactly.
On July 25 2014 11:45 skdeimos wrote: I.... I can't tell if this works or not. Which is probably a good thing.
I think Terran would have too easy of a time sniping hatcheries with bio vs 3 hatch in TvZ with little potential for counterattacks from the Zerg. Neither can I; lets find out.
I agree with you on the three hatch issue; I think it depends on how quickly zerg can destroy the rocks at their expansions so they can get out, because I don't think they really want to stay walled. Cutting the build down to 2 hatch and getting earlier units to get out and get map control is probably a better build on this map.
Also, I updated the map to fix a few small asymmetries.
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Interesting concept, although I think setups where the town hall is just a part of a wall off rather than the entire wall have potential as well. Here the middle is a bit chokey, which could potentially compound the zerg issue outlined above.
+ Show Spoiler +
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Really innovative. I don't have much time currently to do anything but ladder but I hope people will give this map a try, it deserves it.
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Wats up with the main nat and third, i dont get how it works from the picture, post more pictures? (close ups, different angles)
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On July 27 2014 09:33 sTYleZerG-eX wrote: Wats up with the main nat and third, i dont get how it works from the picture, post more pictures? (close ups, different angles) To quote the first paragraph "There are two naturals and two main ramps; however, placing a town hall (Nexus, Hatchery, etc) at either natural creates a full wall off at that position (additionally, taking both naturals completely walls off those three bases)."
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Holy shit. I'll bet there would be some insanely abusive builds that would show up on this map if it was in the map-pool, but it's so different that it's hard to predict a damn thing.
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Really cool! The hell would have to freeze for this to ever appear on ladder, unfortunately. Maybe if the idea map is tested a little and possibly polished that you should try to convince TB to run it in his Clanwars? He does include unusual stuff on purpose. (And eventually it will land in PL. After Maze, everything is possible )
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On July 27 2014 09:33 sTYleZerG-eX wrote: Wats up with the main nat and third, i dont get how it works from the picture, post more pictures? (close ups, different angles)
Sorry for the ambiguity; the natural and third expansions are positioned so that taking the expansion creates a full wall with your nexus.
On July 27 2014 07:33 [PkF] Wire wrote: Really innovative. I don't have much time currently to do anything but ladder but I hope people will give this map a try, it deserves it.
Thank you; the best way for me to be able to refine the concept and make it workable would be testing and iteration based on it, so it's something I'm hoping for as well.
On July 27 2014 15:00 Pontius Pirate wrote: Holy shit. I'll bet there would be some insanely abusive builds that would show up on this map if it was in the map-pool, but it's so different that it's hard to predict a damn thing.
The goal was to open up a slightly different can of builds with the map. The unique setting should allow for tweaks on existing builds to be very effective. However, I do worry that some builds may be too abusive in this setting, so I really need testers to feel it out.
On July 27 2014 19:25 opisska wrote:Really cool! The hell would have to freeze for this to ever appear on ladder, unfortunately. Maybe if the idea map is tested a little and possibly polished that you should try to convince TB to run it in his Clanwars? He does include unusual stuff on purpose. (And eventually it will land in PL. After Maze, everything is possible )
Aye, t'would. I'd love if someone like TB would notice the map, he's very gutsy with his map selection. However, you're right that it should be refined and tested more before that happens.
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So I had an issue with the fact that as Zerg, these bases: + Show Spoiler + Build units outside of your base...
Is there any way this could perhaps be solved?
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your Country52793 Posts
On July 29 2014 10:15 L3monsta wrote:So I had an issue with the fact that as Zerg, these bases: + Show Spoiler +Build units outside of your base... Is there any way this could perhaps be solved? Do you mean that units built in those bases can't get inside the base without going all the way around/transport?
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On July 29 2014 10:15 L3monsta wrote:So I had an issue with the fact that as Zerg, these bases: + Show Spoiler +Build units outside of your base... Is there any way this could perhaps be solved?
Thanks for bringing this to my attention, I'm fixing it at the moment, should be updated within a few hours.
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On July 29 2014 15:47 Rkynick wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2014 10:15 L3monsta wrote:So I had an issue with the fact that as Zerg, these bases: + Show Spoiler +Build units outside of your base... Is there any way this could perhaps be solved? Thanks for bringing this to my attention, I'm fixing it at the moment, should be updated within a few hours. No no no, those are the larvae for harassment lings. It's a feature! XD
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On July 29 2014 16:12 EatThePath wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2014 15:47 Rkynick wrote:On July 29 2014 10:15 L3monsta wrote:So I had an issue with the fact that as Zerg, these bases: + Show Spoiler +Build units outside of your base... Is there any way this could perhaps be solved? Thanks for bringing this to my attention, I'm fixing it at the moment, should be updated within a few hours. No no no, those are the larvae for harassment lings. It's a feature! XD
I wish
New update: + Show Spoiler + I've updated the map to account for the zerg issue, and I've also polished it up in a few other areas. Additionally! I changed the structure of the nat/third so that there is now a 1x1 space that can be opened by destroying a 400hp debris (compare to the normal debris hp of 2000). This is so that players can get access to the outside more quickly (for instance, it should be about 5x faster with this change). The space can be blocked by pretty much any unit that you hold position on it. It should not be prone to run-bys given its tiny space, and the area can be rewalled or blocked very easily.
One more change: I shifted over the large debris so that the defending player has more surface area on it if they choose to destroy it from inside.
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Sounds like great changes. I'll have to play more then :D
Just from looks alone, it looks like the defenders advantage is much greater in the naturals (which I think is a good thing) due to the natural concave the entrance forms..
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On July 29 2014 18:56 L3monsta wrote: Sounds like great changes. I'll have to play more then :D
Just from looks alone, it looks like the defenders advantage is much greater in the naturals (which I think is a good thing) due to the natural concave the entrance forms..
If you do play it, there's nothing I would love more than replays! Just saying.
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