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For testing porpouses the current state of the mod in under. BW - Rebalanced
Been discussing ideas of how to balance BroodWar as a SC2 mod. Some units were only balanced by the clumpy mechanics, and there still was some imbalance going on. So please discuss or comment ideas, even small collision increases or tweaks can do it. The ideas that came out from the discussion so far are the following, please criticize or give reasons to discard them or use other tweaks.
General: Depth in micro implemented:
PvZ: -Zergling collision increased to 0.55, attack speed set to 0.5. This helps with problems P faces vs Z in early game. -Scout can attack while moving (like voidray), increasing it's use. - Scarab collision: 0.25
Bio: this is not intended to make pure bio as nearly as effective as in SC2, but to make it viable in some form: -Scorpion (from barracks, requires academy and armory): 75/25, 1 supply, 100 hp, 75/25, production time 36 seconds, attack period: 1.5, range 6, damage 18 explosive, can learn concussive shells. -Dropship: emergency thrusters. (no healing medivac so it needs to waste space with medics, a minor change)
T: -Like with Scouts, trying to make this unit usable: Valkyries do normal damage.
Lategame Zerg: -Roach with hp increased to135 (same cost) added as hive-tech unit. (could be replaced by some kind of upgrade)
-Thinking about changing Scourge attack to do explosive damage (not yet implemented)
Spells: Psionic storm cooldown from 1 to 5 Lockdown cooldown from 0 to 5. cast time increased to 0.75 seconds. Dark Swarm duration from 38 to 20.
Protoss New unit: Crystal Core 3 supply 150/150, made at robotics facility. hp:120, shields: 80 movement: hover (ground but doesn't trigger mines), speed: 2.953 ground attack: can fire while moving, range 7, speed: 0.6, concussive damage 6, then 8, then 10 (damage increase the longer it fires at the same target).
Ability: Time warp (duration 3 seconds), cost 75 energy, reseached at Robotis Support Bay. Reduced enemy unit speed by half in the target area.
Models used made by: + Show Spoiler +Thrikodias, Cacho, Soulfitcher, Xibadivs, Ghostnova, pzayah, gnareffotsirk, taylormouse, buhhy, phannalax, kailniris, underp4ntz, zolden
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This should be in Custom Maps.
It'll be very hard to theorycraft Brood War and rebalance it. Brood War was sort of balanced around being "unplayable" (as in, there is so much shit to do at the same time, you just cannot physically do it). SC2 UI fixes a lot of that, which makes Brood War near impossible to recreate.
There have been good community attempts however; Starcraft BroodWar Mod, Starbow comes close. Maybe look around for some of those and ask if you can join them?
Good Luck!
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thanks !, i know of maps that recreate BW with the exact stats they had. i've played starbow, it's interesting, but doesn't try to balance BW, it's more like a new game of it's own
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Hydralisks are preforming exceptionally well in the SC2 engine with unlimited pathing. This is our experience from Starbow at least. You might want to take that into consideration. Also, our experience is also that smartcasting spells is probably a smaller buff to spells than the ability to instantly move your whole army around to avoid certain spells.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22271 Posts
I'm moving this to custom maps where you will probably get a better response.
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Zeal gets +1? That totally breaks the armor/attack upgrade back and forth dichotomy of lings and zeals. To an extent it also messes with marines as well.
many game timings are based directly around that.
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Thoughts about the Scorpion? im thinking about changing fire rate from 1.4 to 1.5, maybe mking it require factory in addition to academy, and/or reducing range to 5 and making it be affected by marine change upgrade, making it 6 again after it. as it is, 1 scorpion and 1 dragoon kill each other (without micro or upgrades)
On December 16 2014 21:56 Xiphias wrote: Hydralisks are preforming exceptionally well in the SC2 engine with unlimited pathing. This is our experience from Starbow at least. You might want to take that into consideration. starbow hydraliks have buffed attack and movement speed, maybe to fit with the new units, but in bw they already were very good.
Also, our experience is also that smartcasting spells is probably a smaller buff to spells than the ability to instantly move your whole army around to avoid certain spells.
will take a look at that, i was thinking the best way to tweak smartcasting spells would be by making them less efficient. some spammable one by increasing energy cost. i don't see any spell needing a change in research time. while i take a look at that, do you have any suggestions about how to change each spell? my concern with balancing smartcasting, is that it scaled good with player's ability, so pro's where able to play past not having smartcast. so the changes so equally affect the different levels of skill. but you made a good point there, good pathing and selection can nullify the advantage of smartcasting, at least in aoe spells.
On December 17 2014 02:48 MarlieChurphy wrote: Zeal gets +1? That totally breaks the armor/attack upgrade back and forth dichotomy of lings and zeals. To an extent it also messes with marines as well.
many game timings are based directly around that.
you are right, at the end i decided for the zergling change, which is intended to make crackaling sourounds not as smooth, which will mostly affect zealots vs zerglings.
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On December 17 2014 05:01 kakalxlax wrote:Thoughts about the Scorpion? im thinking about changing fire rate from 1.4 to 1.5, maybe mking it require factory in addition to academy, and/or reducing range to 5 and making it be affected by marine change upgrade, making it 6 again after it. as it is, 1 scorpion and 1 dragoon kill each other (without micro or upgrades) Show nested quote +On December 16 2014 21:56 Xiphias wrote: Hydralisks are preforming exceptionally well in the SC2 engine with unlimited pathing. This is our experience from Starbow at least. You might want to take that into consideration. starbow hydraliks have buffed attack and movement speed, maybe to fit with the new units, but in bw they already were very good. Show nested quote + Also, our experience is also that smartcasting spells is probably a smaller buff to spells than the ability to instantly move your whole army around to avoid certain spells. will take a look at that, i was thinking the best way to tweak smartcasting spells would be by making them less efficient. some spammable one by increasing energy cost. i don't see any spell needing a change in research time. while i take a look at that, do you have any suggestions about how to change each spell? my concern with balancing smartcasting, is that it scaled good with player's ability, so pro's where able to play past not having smartcast. so the changes so equally affect the different levels of skill. but you made a good point there, good pathing and selection can nullify the advantage of smartcasting, at least in aoe spells. Show nested quote +On December 17 2014 02:48 MarlieChurphy wrote: Zeal gets +1? That totally breaks the armor/attack upgrade back and forth dichotomy of lings and zeals. To an extent it also messes with marines as well.
many game timings are based directly around that. you are right, at the end i decided for the zergling change, which is intended to make crackaling sourounds not as smooth, which will mostly affect zealots vs zerglings. Starbow Hydralisks dont have buffed attacks/movement speed O.o
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On December 18 2014 01:27 404AlphaSquad wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2014 05:01 kakalxlax wrote:On December 16 2014 21:56 Xiphias wrote: Hydralisks are preforming exceptionally well in the SC2 engine with unlimited pathing. This is our experience from Starbow at least. You might want to take that into consideration. starbow hydraliks have buffed attack and movement speed, maybe to fit with the new units, but in bw they already were very good. Starbow Hydralisks dont have buffed attacks/movement speed O.o
BW Hydra attack speed (cooldown): 0.83 SW Hydra attack speed (cooldown): 0.73 BW Hydra movement speed: 2.1093 SW Hydra movement speed 2.2265
but in any case, let's try to keep the discussion about the possible changes here
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On December 18 2014 02:44 kakalxlax wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2014 01:27 404AlphaSquad wrote:On December 17 2014 05:01 kakalxlax wrote:On December 16 2014 21:56 Xiphias wrote: Hydralisks are preforming exceptionally well in the SC2 engine with unlimited pathing. This is our experience from Starbow at least. You might want to take that into consideration. starbow hydraliks have buffed attack and movement speed, maybe to fit with the new units, but in bw they already were very good. Starbow Hydralisks dont have buffed attacks/movement speed O.o BW Hydra attack speed (cooldown): 0.83 SW Hydra attack speed (cooldown): 0.73 BW Hydra movement speed: 2.1093 SW Hydra movement speed 2.2265 but in any case, let's try to keep the discussion about the possible changes here ah there might be confusion, because we made the game 12,5% faster than Brood War. So every unit is "buffed" in the same way.
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Scorpion now requires academy and armory, it's attack speed reduced to 1.5, production time increased from 30 to 36 opinions ?
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Sorry about the off topic, but ca anyone show me the link of Starcraft 2 BroodWar topic? Thanks.
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New Protoss unit added: Crystal Core 3 supply 150/150, made at robotics facility. hp:120, shields: 80 movement: hover (ground but doesn't trigger mines), speed: 2.953 ground attack: can fire while moving, range 7, speed: 0.6, concussive damage 6, then 8, then 10 (damage increase the longer it fires at the same target).
Ability: Time warp (duration 3 seconds), cost 75 energy, reseached at Robotis Support Bay. Reduced enemy unit speed by half in the target area.
Thoughts?
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How in the world do you possibly think that you can REBALANCE Broodwar?
Will try it out and give a review of what I think. Thanks for posting. ^^
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On December 20 2014 16:20 GGzerG wrote: How in the world do you possibly think that you can REBALANCE Broodwar?
Will try it out and give a review of what I think. Thanks for posting. ^^
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I wonder whats the goal here? You say you want to rebalance bw but add a lot of new units and abilities? Wouldn´t it be better to start with units that are useless or suck in broodwar like infested terrans?
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Why is is it called Broodwar, i think the name is misleading.
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On December 20 2014 16:20 GGzerG wrote: How in the world do you possibly think that you can REBALANCE Broodwar?
Will try it out and give a review of what I think. Thanks for posting. ^^ thanks, will be waiting for criticism
On December 20 2014 22:42 TaShadan wrote: I wonder whats the goal here? You say you want to rebalance bw but add a lot of new units and abilities? Wouldn´t it be better to start with units that are useless or suck in broodwar like infested terrans? all of the stated ideas can be scratched, i'd rather add the least amount of new units, and if possible none, (if too many good ideas about that come up, this can end up becoming 2 different mods) they are meant to balance weaknesses, like zerg lategme, terran need to always go mech, etc. as said, i'd rather tweak existing spells and units to fit SC2 improved ai (smartcasting, better pathing, etc)
about useless units, i stated a few changes regarding them, void ray and valkyrie for example, if you have any specific suggestion please let me know.
On December 20 2014 22:54 Superbanana wrote: Why is is it called Broodwar, i think the name is misleading. because it seeks to solve balance issues with BW and adapting it to SC2 engine, as described in the first post.
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