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--- Exarch --- MAP IS PUBLISHED IN: NA, EU Map Size (Playable) 160 x 160
OVERVIEW:
90:
ANALYZER:
BASES:
ABOUT THE MAP: + Show Spoiler +WALL OFF:Nat:3rd:CREDITS:Map is inspired by 2 old broodwar maps: Arcadia: There was also another map like this one in BWMN it was a 4 player map with rotational symmetry on the ice title set. (But I can't find the map name or the author) So if any one know, plz let me know.
Map has a simple concept/ lay out. The idea is to have a 4 start location 1v1 map with an easy 3rd but with a bit more of a vulnerable nat (Than standard nats). There are no doodads yet. I Hope you like it, feel free to comment and criticize it.
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That is a 4-base turtle fest. You have 4 bases behind 1 choke point, that is unacceptable in my opinion. Besides that, you have a few black spots visible on the picture from where different cliff types meet.
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your Country52793 Posts
I agree with RoomOfMush about the 4 base setup. I'm not sure what's going on in the first three bases but I don't like it.
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Agree with the previous comments, you'll need to make the map harder to turtle on. Adding more paths and backdoors to the natural/3rd/4th would help the map a lot. As it is, you have one entrance to both the main, natural, 3rd, and 4th. Its preferable (from my experience) to escalate the attackers options of attack as the defender takes more bases (for example, 1 entrance to the main, 1-2 entrances to the natural, 2-4 entrances to the 3rd, and so on). Aesthetics are nice however, and I'm glad to see 1 gas golds being used.
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@ Yeah, I know about the black spots, those are because there are no doodads on map yet, don't worry those will be taken care of on maps final version. The idea of the map however is to have main/nat/3rd all lead up to 1 choke (that part of the map I dont really want to change, its the whole concept) So map will favor turtleing a bit (also don't forget, nat is hard to take, it's a bit out of position with the ramp, even with the 2 destructible small 400hp rocks.) But you are right, having that easy 4th might be a bit too much.
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What is the reason for your concept? Like I get that that's what you're going for, and I would quibble about the execution, but why? I don't think it's ever been a good design with interesting gameplay, and I've thought about it pretty hard. Tell me what I missed. ;D
If anything why not make the choke wider and put rocks on one side of it. Or something, anything, to make it remotely possible to successfully attack into the 3rd. Or provide a harass option.
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On July 30 2015 01:17 sTYleZerG-eX wrote: @ Yeah, I know about the black spots, those are because there are no doodads on map yet, don't worry those will be taken care of on maps final version. The idea of the map however is to have main/nat/3rd all lead up to 1 choke (that part of the map I dont really want to change, its the whole concept) So map will favor turtleing a bit (also don't forget, nat is hard to take, it's a bit out of position with the ramp, even with the 2 destructible small 400hp rocks.) But you are right, having that easy 4th might be a bit too much.
that's kind of irrelevant as you can FFE on the 3rd as Protoss: http://i.imgur.com/3nTgUIn.png :/
also there's a glaring mistake of not making some terrain unpathable which leads to scouting workers using it to enter the mains lol: http://i.imgur.com/CVvjDSt.png
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
I actually really like the ideas going on here @_@
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Maybe it was: Azalea Losing Temperature Deliverance Yellow
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@Ej_
Thank you for taking the time to open the map in sc2, much appreciated.
1) Yes forge fast expand is possible at the third. This is not a mistake; an image is shown at the map description (In the “ABOUT THE MAP:” section). If players decide to expand at the nat they will face the challenge of having a wider choke, 2 destructible rocks with 400 hp, and a slightly off position nat. Or you can ffe at the third, but this might be awkward / or at the very least risky, living you open to several different attack possibilities, because your stuff might just be a bit to spread out. Examples: roach ling all in (your reinforcements might be to late to get themselves in position) or some nydus play, you just have a lot of ground to cover. 2) Thank you for helping me look for bugs on the map, but this again is not a mistake, those areas where left there as is on purpose. The paths will be made unwalkable once final version is up, also doodads will be added there. (This I did because editing comes in easier) I probably should have mentioned this on the original post tho.
On July 30 2015 09:37 Plexa wrote: I actually really like the ideas going on here @_@
Thank you! Glad to have the first on the list that officially likes the map :D
On another note, that 4th expo is where it gets tricky, and now I realize that something has to be done about it. The reasoning behind making it relatively safe to secure was that I wanted to give the players the option to say “ahh.. you are taking a fast 3rd, no problem, Il just help myself to an early/safe 4th” But taking into account all that has been said, that expo cant remain as is, it needs something done 4 sure.
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I like the idea behind the 4th you give, but remember that 4th bases aren't really relevant to take early in SC2. 3base econ cap and all that. Unless you're talking about zerg gas, but they would want that either way.
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Since you're already doing a half base gold which is unacceptable for Blizz/TLMC you should just go all the way. Make the third half base. Make the rocks at the fourth a huge stack like they sometimes did in BW so you can only break them later with aoe units.
I would actually like some things about the map. I mean there has been other maps with easy 3 base before like with a backdoor base and such. So I'm not inherently against this. The wide nat choke and the small choke at the third is a cool concept. And it's air vulnerable 180° towards the middle which is pretty dope. I would expand on the idea of the nat being hard if necessary. Also what I would also do right now is make sure the main stretches out as far as possible clockwise to allow easier drops.
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United States9607 Posts
if the point of this map is to make it competitive, you've missed the point entirely. You want the map to be dynamic. This... is too one-dimensional. 3 base macro fests and hell just turtling is going to happen on this map 9/10 times. I think you need a serious overhaul of the first 3 base design before proper advice for changes can be given.
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The wide nat choke and the small choke at the third is a cool concept.
Agreed the concept has some potential. I think a wrench needs to be thrown into it to add a little chaos and vulnerability to the 3 base setup though. Also that 4th base is garbage.
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I think this is one of the maps where a backdoor into the main could be a good idea. With the nat and third players can quickly become greedy. This could then be heavily abused by an aggressive attack on the backdoor. If you keep 3 bases behind 1 choke I am 100% sure that this map is not going to go anywhere.
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Ok this is one option I came up with 2 fix the map issues This version is still a bit rough, but what do you think? (pay no attention to textures, I will fix those once I get the lay out right.)
I tried fixing the issues that have been addressed here in TL and combined it with some feedback on the map cave, but its turning out to be harder than I thought, there are just so many mixed opinions.. (on map cave, most people thought this new version worse) I really like Ragoo´s suggestions: + Show Spoiler +On July 30 2015 18:30 Ragoo wrote: Since you're already doing a half base gold which is unacceptable for Blizz/TLMC you should just go all the way. Make the third half base. Make the rocks at the fourth a huge stack like they sometimes did in BW so you can only break them later with aoe units or make them eggs. I would actually like some things about the map. I mean there has been other maps with easy 3 base before like with a backdoor base and such. So I'm not inherently against this. The wide nat choke and the small choke at the third is a cool concept. And it's air vulnerable 180° towards the middle which is pretty dope. I would expand on the idea of the nat being hard if necessary. Also what I would also do right now is make sure the main stretches out as far as possible clockwise to allow easier drops. I could give something like that a go?
On July 31 2015 05:36 Fatam wrote:Agreed the concept has some potential. I think a wrench needs to be thrown into it to add a little chaos and vulnerability to the 3 base setup though. Also that 4th base is garbage. Agreed that 4th expo is trash, but how would you add the vulnerability on the first 3 bases?
@RoomOfMush Yeah back door would be cool but, where would you add the back door? The only place where there is enough space for something like that is 4th to Main, but that would create loads of problems with this rotational symmetry..
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