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Hi guys, I posted this map up on reddit last night, and got some feedback, but since reddit isn't especially good for a consistent stream of feedback, I figured I would put my map up here.
Korhal Backwater Zone Uploaded to NA and EU servers
Supported Players: 4 Intended Play Mode 1v1 Map Size: 160x160 Total Base Count: 16 Spawn Options: Forced Cross Spawn Main to Main: 242 spaces (~48 seconds with worker) Nat to Nat: 170 spaces (~37 seconds with a worker)
A few closer up pics
Any feedback is appreciated
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It's a nice clean map. The aesthetics are harmonious, and unlike your older maps there isn't any problem with spacing and awkward gaps. My main concern is that the layout feels very generic--there isn't much to make the map stand out. Also I don't like the name, it sounds like something Blizzard would come up with (and Backwater station is on Mar Sara not Korhal).
At any rate this is by far the most professional looking map you've made. Your maps have really improved over the course of the year. Keep it up!
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is it uploaded on every server ? i can't find it on EU. Would be nice to have it on EU ;O
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@ZigguratOfUr I always thought backwater was a term used for out of the way/shanty/hard life areas or something. I didn't realize it was a name of an actual city. Someone on reddit made the same comment concerning Backwater on Mar Sara earlier today.
@Siegetank_Dieter The map is published to EU, and it's public, so I don't know why you'd be having problems finding it, so long as you entered the name correctly.
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On December 02 2016 08:15 Solstice245 wrote: @ZigguratOfUr I always thought backwater was a term used for out of the way/shanty/hard life areas or something. I didn't realize it was a name of an actual city. Someone on reddit made the same comment concerning Backwater on Mar Sara earlier today.
@Siegetank_Dieter The map is published to EU, and it's public, so I don't know why you'd be having problems finding it, so long as you entered the name correctly.
It is in fact a term for an isolated and peaceful out of way place (which is exactly what Backwater Station was before the Zerg arrived).
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In a way that's the opposite of what I thought it meant :O
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Actually don't think I've see a new, standard 4p rot map of this quality in a long time. Kudos.
Sublime proportions, subtle twist, simple aesthetics.
Are the rock towers connected, or no?
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@Syphon8 No the rocks are not connected
@Phaenoman It's pretty difficult to make unique 4p rotational maps without some very abnormal aspects to your map. Not that it's a bad thing to be similar to Cactus Valley, as I thought it was a fairly good map.
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Na, that wasn't meant to be negative. I looked at it and CV was the first thing I thought of.
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I like it a lot. The spacing is very nice and the aesthetics calm and clear. Not sure if the middle rocktowers will see much use, but personally I don't think they have to. It is nothing revolutionary, but seeing the good old recipes in new maps is so much more refreshing than having the same few maps over and over again.
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i think i mentioned it somewhere before, but the way you set up the thirds creates an imbalance or rather two types of (specifically) rotational imbalance in close positions. See Cactus Valley for how to easily execute it in a clean way.
This is only a theoretical issue, because of forced cross-spawn. But let me go into some detail here, because i feel this is important, when we talk about 4spawn maps:
1. the distance to the two options for a third base should be more or less identical in distance from the natural's choke. it seems like there is a bit of a difference and the counter-clockwise (cow) base is closer. (I am pretty sure I personally told you how to fix this easily)
2. the distance from an easily obtained (or left) position in the centre of the map to threaten the third bases to the two third's chokes. it seems like here the ccw third is further away.
> If both is true then the ccw third is easier to hold.
A few years ago - when 4spawn maps where most of the time auto-ruled out for fear of two base rushes and no late game (in close positions) and smaller maps overall - these would be seen as great flaws, and I would say so today, too, especially, because it is so easy to fix with the measuring-tool we have now.
But then again you do use forced cross-spawn, so never mind all this critique. I only wonder why you actually do a 4spawn map, when a 2spawn would give you so many more possibilities?
Another - and not only theoretical - point of critique is that the central collapsable rock towers do rather little for the amount of time your army has to spend there to take enough of them down.
It is good to see a new face and a new map from time to time, but i just cannot join the chorus praising this map. there is little to nothing new, the general concept (4spawn with cross spawn) is (imho) nonsensical and then it is so-so executed as a 4spawn (theoretically!) with (although only slightly) imbalanced third bases.
Seeing how many people comment purely positively I wonder about the expectation to maps the community currently has. i see that nowadays so few new maps seems to be produced, but come one, criticism helps to get maps (and then the game) better!
or is it just me - an old (but not-angry) man? :D
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@Samro225am
To start off, I definitely value this wall of text you have given over the word of praise most have given (Not that I don't appreciate them). But then again, most people don't have as much understanding of the intricacies of mapmaking, so it's understandable.
With force cross spawns, more possibilities come. The 2 3rds are more are less the same distance from the middle of the natural choke. (Only a single space margin). I deliberately made one of the 3rds less chokey than the other, so I believe this helps racial balance, in that you can decide whether you want more or less chokey 3rd, depending on matchup.
As for the rocks, I just added them as a concept, and as the Creative TM aspect to my map, cause the center is all that can get anything going for my map, as that seems what most 4p maps use to differentiate themselves from other 4p maps.
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Pretty nice map, I don't find much rotational imbalance, mostly just mech has a nice 4th consolidation/push base which seems like it could be quite harsh tvz for example.
But then I read cross only. Why.....?? There's no reason to have cross spawns on a 4p rotational map. Just make a 2p map. To wit: do you really want a double base in the corner with a single ramp pathway between? This doesn't seem like a great map feature. It's something we live with for the sake of 4p maps but to intentionally include it seems like an unfinished thought.
If you want to provide interesting choices of 3rd base, a 2p design gives you way more opportunity to add strategic expansion decisions, instead of this circle syndrome design -- don't get me wrong, it works okay, it just seems like there could be more.
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i really the idea of the centre of the map it cold create many interesting interactions
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seems super solid for a 4p (but it's a 4p, so you know ), although am I the only person who thinks that the middle rock towers don't really do enough? Like maybe if you could data edit the rock towers to put down long diagonal rocks it would be awesome (not sure if possible.. never tried)?
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@Fatam
I imagine it would be *possible*, but there wouldn't be any models that would visually display it properly. Maybe blizzard will add that someday, that is, if they get Dustin Browder back on the team ;P
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