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[G] QTIP’s guide to defending the 1-1-1 (PvT)

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QTIP.
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States2113 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-06 14:42:23
August 02 2011 01:53 GMT
#1
INTRO

I’ve decided it time that we try to put together a solid guide in finding out how to counter this. It's been discussed since the Beta, and people still start new threads trying to find the solution. Opening any of these threads is truly a shit show. You will quickly realize that there is definitely some good information in there, but more than half of it is random theory-crafting, or more importantly, MISINFORMATION (my main motivation for this thread).

This guide's goal is to centralize good, accurate information in dealing with this all-in.

Examples of misinformation:
+ Show Spoiler +
On July 29 2011 07:47 Spiner wrote:
People who are saying "make immortals" are wrong. Immortals suck against marines and banshees. The one unit that their good against (tanks) won't matter because the immortals will die before they can even get in range of the tanks. As a master terran player that does this push a lot, I can say that phoenixes won't work either because there's too many marines covering the tanks/raven/banshees.

The times when I lost were against someone who fast expanded and got out colossus fairly early and delayed the push by meeting my army halfway across the map. The key it seems as a protoss player is not to turtle but force the terran to siege and delay the push until you can get out more gateway units.


On July 29 2011 17:58 Omegastorm wrote:
Read this.

On certain map, this push is so so strong ( thats why terrans are using this )
What you can do:
1) Forcefield his ramp and try to delay his push while boosting immortals and gateways
2 )Blink Stalkers with observer.. keep him in his base, he managed to push out? Just base trade. ( theres a specific build order )
3) Flank his army
4) Cancel Nexus and make only units off 1 base ( 3 gate robo is what i like to do )


On July 29 2011 18:47 Pebbz wrote:
Phoenixes as soon as possible. If you hit your earliest timing, your phoenix should be out when his first banshee is out.


On July 30 2011 00:31 eatmybunnies wrote:
IMO dont make immortals. You would think it would counter the tanks, but at the amount of marines he has it's going ti be useless. I usually get 3 collosus before this timing hits.

I try to stay in the middle of map the to enage there and force a pdd.
Then i run back and warp in more units and try to target the tanks with my collosus.
i get around 5-6gates and 1 robo with crono'd collosus (almost all crono's go into collosus)
i get 2 obs just incase double cloacked banshee
or if he kills my first obs in the middle of the map engagement. i have a spare one in my base.
i build mostly lots and stalkers. IF i have extra gas i would build a couple of sentries

Edit:
also the colosus rape the marines after you killed his tanks


On July 31 2011 02:31 chaopow wrote:
I've done some experimenting with different builds, and I've found that high tempelar with storm will finish in time. I've gotten 6gateways, 6 tempelar each with 1 storm ready, before 10 minutes which is generally when they are at your door step. There are also a handful of zealots, and if with 6gates you can easily mop up any units that still survive the storm.


... -_-


The 1-1-1:
+ Show Spoiler +
1 Rax (reactor)
1 Factory (techlab)
1 Starport (techlab)


The unit composition you will be facing generally consists of marines, tanks, banshees and possibly a raven. It is important to consider that there are many variations of this. A raven is a possibility, cloak is a possibility, helions are a possibility, and SCV’s are a possibility. This build is made to be solid against all of these variations.

The 1-1-1 typically opens up with banshee harass in the mineral lines, followed up by a marine / siege tank/ banshee push that sets up outside your natural. It hits as early as 8 minutes and presents a unit composition that is difficult for Protoss to deal with at that point in the game.


Scouting:
+ Show Spoiler +
The first step in stopping this build is getting as much scouting information as humanely possible.

Common Terran openers (credit to mazqo)
- 1rax cc (no gas)
- 2rax (1 reactor 1 techlab)
- Banshees (2 gas, marines)

Very few Terran players will show you both raxes building when executing a 2 rax, or throw up a factory and 2 gases in the face of your probe. You will have at the very least do two rounds of scouting, and must be as persistent as possible.

Your first round of scouting should mainly be centered on the gas timings of the Terran.

Is the gas done before the barracks? Is there no gas at all? Normal gas timing?

If you see no gas before the marine forces you out, you are facing the 1rax CC. If you see that the gas is starting before the barracks, you will know that tech your opponent is favoring tech. If you see a standard gas timing, then you cannot draw any conclusions.

After your probe is forced out, try to poke at the front / sneak back in for more information after a minute or so. This second round of scouting is CRITICAL. As you poke up the ramp, try to get a glimpse of the marine count. If you see 3-4 marines at this point and they take out your probe instantly, you should be wary of a banshee opening. If you see a marauder / reaper (by luck) you can breathe a sigh of relief, the chances of a 1-1-1 coming just dropped by about 99%. If you see just a single marine at the ramp, you can take a gamble and try to get your Probe inside his base in time to see if there is a factory/ 2nd rax on the way.

If you see any of the following (credit to mazqo):
- Reapers
- Marauders
- Early expansion
- No gas


Then chances are that the 1-1-1 is NOT coming. If your scouting probe is denied, or you see a factory, then it is a possibility.


Opening Build:
+ Show Spoiler +
Back at your base, I strongly suggest you open with Stalker-sentry-sentry (stolen from MC). The initial stalker will quickly deal with the scouting SCV, and two sentries are sufficient in holding 2 rax pressure before your WG finishes. (You will need two gases for a smooth build order) Send your initial stalker to any Xel’naga towers to spot for units.

If I am worried about a 1-1-1, I will either do one of these two openers.

1 Gate – FE - Robo
Or
1 Gate – Robo – FE ***

The idea behind this opening is knowing that you can skimp on units. If you sense the 1-1-1 coming, he will try to deny scouting (possibly a bunker) and will have no effective units (marines, unsieged tanks) to deny your expansion. The only thing that you have to worry about is banshees.

I prefer 1 Gate – Robo – FE. It allows me to get out a slightly faster observer, and in the case of some early aggressive push, I probably won’t have to go through cancelling my Expo. Try both out, and see what you are comfortable with.

Once your robo is up, I like to chrono out TWO observers. This is completely stylistic, and others may prefer just a single observer. Two observers I find is simply safer. On maps/spawns with long distances, your observer may be getting to your opponents base when the banshee is halfway to yours. Also, during the critical engagement where the game will be decided, Terrans with Ravens may snipe your observer and cloaked banshees will end the game. A second observer can be useful.

When your observer gets to his base and sees the 1-1-1, immediately look for cloak to be researching on the tech lab. Remember, there are variations of this build, and you want to be prepared for all of them.

Continue to make workers until the low 30’s, and throw up an additional 3 Gateways. Once your 2nd observer is out, immediately start producing immortals when possible. Your gateway units from this point onwards should be zealots and sentries, and just enough stalkers to shut down the banshee harass.

Ideally, you want to be on 4 producing gates and 1 robo with constant immortal production.

If you aren’t confident vs the 1-1-1, I suggest you save your chronoboost for immortals, and your Warpgates.

*** If you KNOW that 2 rax is coming, then both of these builds are NOT optimal. 1 gate - FE - Robo will straight up die to 2 rax, and 1 gate - Robo - FE will lead to a delayed expansion. I suggest other builds like an aggressive 1 Gate - FE - 2 more gates, or safe 2 Gate Robo.

Why no stalkers?
+ Show Spoiler +
Overproducing stalkers is one of the most critical mistakes that protoss players make. It may seem unintuitive to engage a marine/banshee/tank force without stalkers, but after many trials and tribulations, I’ve found them to be HUGELY ineffective and even useless. The presence of a raven with PDD and siege tanks will not only get you 0 DPS from the stalkers, but they will melt extremely quickly. Get only as many as you need!




Engagement:
+ Show Spoiler +
Around the time your 2nd/3rd immortal is in production, you will begin to see the Terran move out. Retreat your stalker and try to shadow the army’s positioning without losing your observer. Continue to warp in zealots/sentries, and position your immortals behind the zealot/sentry force, but in front of your stalkers.

The biggest thing here is the engagement. If things went perfectly, all of these would happen.
i) Pop guardian shield

ii) Forcefield Marines to prevent retreat

iii) Engage tanks while unsieged

iv) Focus fire all immortals/stalkers on tanks

v) Warp in stalkers after tanks are cleaned up

vi) Win


Unfortunately, not all of us can do execute this with perfect timing and micro. Instead, many of us will make an utter mess of this engagement, and barely come through. Therefore, let’s focus on what you NEED to do, or you will almost certainly lose.

i) Pop Guardian Shield:

Your zealots need to live as long as possible. Tank splash will hit the marines too.

iv) Focus fire immortals on tanks:

Tanks and Immortals are high-priority targets for both you and your opponent. As such, they will be the first to die in the engagement. Marines / banshees will target down your immortals, so make sure each immortal shot is not wasted. If tanks are left and your immortals are gone, you’re in a bad position.

v) Clean up Banshees with additional Stalker Warp-in

We’ve all had that one warp-in we wish we could have back. You need to deal with the banshees as soon as you can – don’t be dumb and make more zealot/sentry.

THINGS TO NOTE:

--- If you see SCV’s pulled, your forcefields are even more important. Be prepared to cut them off from the ball to deal with them separately (without producing terran-favored forcefields), and forcefield on top of a tank to prevent repair.

--- Do not be afraid to pull your own probes if it means breaking the contain. Yes, your economy will take a dump, but you have Two Nexus’ and you have chronoboost. You are still in a good position.

--- Do not overreact to the banshees. Minimize banshee harass with as few stalkers as possible.

--- If you can execute a flank, and engage in a favorable position where the tanks are relatively unprotected, you can crush this attack very easily. On certain maps (Shattered temple, Xelnaga) , low-ground zealot warp-ins from pylons in your main can be used to backstab tanks if the marines are out of position.

--- If you are very confident in your micro and unit control, many advanced players will attempt to pick off units as the push approaches (forcing multiple siege/unsieges, and buying additional time). This is an advanced tactic that can be highly successful in the hands of a skilled player, but you need to be extremely careful to not lose precious units.


Replays:
+ Show Spoiler +


http://drop.sc/23286

Typhon peaks. The build plays out pretty much exactly how I explain it in the guide.

http://drop.sc/23101

He opens up helion drop which I am completely unprepared for. Nevertheless, comes with a 1-1-1 push later.

http://drop.sc/23102

Try to ignore my bronze-league forcefields here. Standard 1-1-1 with Banshee opening.

Please provide me with replays! I am nowhere near perfect in holding this build off and would love to have some better reps.


Alternative Methods:
+ Show Spoiler +
Here is a list of some potential builds that can have success against the 1-1-1.

Key word here is CAN, I do not recommend them as they are not entirely safe.

- Phoenix Opening / forcing early PDD (very risky if hit by two base timing attack and difficult to execute)

Opening Phoenix vs a Terran who opens Banshee is a build order advantage, but does not always play out well. Though they shut down the Raven / Banshee part of the composition, lifting tanks isn't easy with a large number of marines as support. MC used this opening vs Thorzain at MLG, who simply switched to vikings and continued his push for the win. Also, opening Stargate is somewhat risky as well. If you don't do enough damage, you will die to any kind of 2 base timing with MMG.

- Fast colossus (non 1-base)

I've seen this work only in some occasions. In most cases, the combination of banshees + target firing from siege tanks is overwhelming. If you lose your colossus, you will lose the game. You will have very little gateway support. This is a strategy that is quite difficult to pull off. Without thermal lance, there is almost no good way to engage marines with sieged tanks and banshees for support. The beauty of a heavy zealot/sentry/immortal composition is that Tanks aren't particularly good against any of them.

- Blink stalker openings

This can be a dangerous opening vs Terrans who are reliant on marine defense, and allows for mid map engagements to pick off units before they reach your base. However, this is more of an opener that you do without much scouting, and therefore has its own risks. Additionally, an early twilight will delay your Robo, making you very weak to cloaked banshees.


Good Critique:
+ Show Spoiler +
I will be updating this section with critique that I find to be valid and will attempt to answer them to the best of my ability. If you have a question, please feel free to post in the thread, but I also suggest you peruse this section to see if it has been addressed.

On August 03 2011 10:30 QTIP. wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 03 2011 08:35 sjschmidt93 wrote:
I really like the guide, and thank you for it, but here's some criticism--

I dislike that your guide only handles 2 opening builds -- the 1 gate robo and the 1 gate FE into robo. There are a lot of common openers that aren't the two you aren't mentioning such as 15 nex and any of the various 20/22 food expands.

You can't always be sure he isn't 2 raxxing -- even if he shows you it and the techlab on the 1st barracks he can always cancel it and do this push (see Boxer vs. Incontrol). Here you would assume it was a 2 rax and open with a 1 gate expo into 2 more gates or a 3 gate expo. Seeing a reactor on the first barracks could mean this push is coming, as well as a 2 rax, or cloaked banshee... or even reactored hellions.

Also what if it's a big 4-player map and you can't even get into the Terran's base and you can't even get a look at the gas timings? Seeing a second marine tells you he is going for a quick CC or some kind of tech, but if the terran player is any good he's not going to show you that.

If he is going 1 rax CC a robo is going to put you behind and if you go 1 gate expo into a quick robo a 2 rax concuss or 3 rax stim is going to kill you.


Hi thank you for the critique.

In my guide I explain that neither of these builds are optimal against a 2 rax. Instead, I suggest the 1 gate - Nexus - 2 gates as a stronger build in not only crushing 2 Rax, but putting on pressure afterwards. If they show you a tech lab, you should be suspicious. You should not just assume that you have correct information and return your probe. Per my guide, I mention that it is extremely important to scout multiple times to get as much information as possible.

You should be thinking: Was he actually planning on building that? Am I lucky to see that? Or did he let me see that on purpose? (Playing Boxer of all people.... -_-)

Example: You see the tech lab before the marine forces you out. There is no way to know for sure if its legit now that the marine is out. However, you can do your best to poke at the ramp multiple times to see if there is are any gas units at the ramp at a later time. If he built a tech lab but you see a healthy # of marines on your second poke -- you know that the tech lab was a fake out. (He actually built a tech lab to make more marines?)


If you can't verify if its a 1-1-1 / 2 Rax, I still suggest opening 1 Gate - Robo - FE. Again, its your call to make, you have to play the probabilities based on the information you have.

If you watch Incontrol vs Boxer from MLG Anaheim, its clear that Incontrol was tricked into thinking that he could opt for the 1 gate - Nexus - 2 gates play when he saw the tech lab. However, its clear that his build could not hold the 1-1-1. That's why, in the situation where you are not sure what is coming, I suggest the 1 Gate - Robo - FE. Incontrol would have been in a much better position if he had opted for this build over the 1 gate - Nexus - 2 gates build.

Also, on larger maps where scouting is more difficult when you scout a player last, there is definitely some luck involved. However, your criticism is not specific to my guide. This "random" factor of scouting your opponent last and having your probe killed by a marine is a factor you have to take into account when playing the game. Do I suggest that you should still assume a 1-1-1 if your probe dies to the first marine because you scout him last? No.

I simply suggest that you persistently scout with your probe, and poke at the ramp to get as much information as possible. There is nothing you can do about something that is out of your control.


My guide is nowhere near perfect, but I do believe the build I suggest is the most solid in terms of scouting / economy / unit composition in dealing with the 1-1-1.

On August 08 2011 13:51 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
Very nice guide! Thanks for making

I was a bit confused about seeing all this about the Terran 111 all-in build recently, wondering what it was about, but apparently it just means the marine/raven/banshee/tank all-in and its variations.

I agree with this guide, 1 gate robo and 1 gate expo robo are really good builds, especially since it deals well with these 111 all-ins (and is both economical, flexible, and helps you learn to scout, all good for learning players). SlayerS Cella was giving a protoss some lessons on how to defend against 111 all-ins and he said the 1 gate robo was the best.


Any feedback, better/pro replays would all be very appreciated.

I hope this can be a resource for some of you.

Thanks to EmilA, Alej, mazqo (and others) for providing relevant information.

Additional discussion on this topic can be found here:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=257589

Starcraft2France Translation:
http://www.starcraft2france.com/Se-defendre-contre-le-1-1-1-en-PvT.8639.0.html

Starcraft2Japan Translation:
http://starcraft2.jpcommunity.com/sc2/modules/xhnewbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=2433&post_id=4846#forumpost4846
"Trash Micro but Win. Its Marin." - Min Chul
rsvp
Profile Blog Joined January 2006
United States2266 Posts
August 02 2011 02:00 GMT
#2
Pretty solid guide. You hit all the key parts, and I agree with pretty much everything said here. Personally 1 thing I like doing is to hide half my zealots somewhere outside my base, and then flank/sandwich the terran army as it comes into my natural. This is great because it doesn't even require any forcefields (so oftentimes I only get 2 sentries total, 1 guardian shield for each half of my army) so there's less micro involved, plus it's great for avoiding the SCV barrier and easily disposing of tanks.

Here's an example: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=187808&currentpage=207#4139
QTIP.
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States2113 Posts
August 02 2011 02:02 GMT
#3
On August 02 2011 11:00 Anihc wrote:
Pretty solid guide. You hit all the key parts, and I agree with pretty much everything said here. Personally 1 thing I like doing is to hide half my zealots somewhere outside my base, and then flank/sandwich the terran army as it comes into my natural. This is great because it doesn't even require any forcefields (so oftentimes I only get 2 sentries total, 1 guardian shield for each half of my army) so there's less micro involved, plus it's great for avoiding the SCV barrier and easily disposing of tanks.

Here's an example: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=187808&currentpage=207#4139


I've seen someone hide their zealots as well! It's a fantastic strategy. (Above my level right now heh). Excellent video.
"Trash Micro but Win. Its Marin." - Min Chul
Medrea
Profile Joined May 2011
9999 Posts
August 02 2011 02:04 GMT
#4
There is a variation on this 1 1 1 allin where the terran hits with 4 banshees, not sure but more than 2, maybe 3. 4th one probably comes in later

Is cleaning up tanks and still just warping in stalkers enough to handle 3 or more banshees?
It really stinks when you clear the ground only to lose because terran can destroy your up shooting units faster than you can make them.
twitch.tv/medrea
SkaPunk
Profile Joined October 2010
United States471 Posts
August 02 2011 02:06 GMT
#5
Nice work man. I've been following these threads too, and I think you are absolutely right. It's so important to go zeal/immo heavy until the tanks are cleNed up
Team Fallacy
kl3zero
Profile Joined April 2011
United States26 Posts
August 02 2011 02:10 GMT
#6
i am only in gold but anytime a Terren tries to 1-1-1 against me the straight up lose to a 3 gate pressure expand. The pressure early on crushes them completely and i safely get my expo up. I do not know if this is lack of player skill on the terren part as i am still in gold , but i still think it is a very strong build.

If i recall correctly it was used and killed SixJacks Major in a frequent TL open
QTIP.
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States2113 Posts
August 02 2011 02:11 GMT
#7
On August 02 2011 11:04 Medrea wrote:
There is a variation on this 1 1 1 allin where the terran hits with 4 banshees, not sure but more than 2, maybe 3. 4th one probably comes in later

Is cleaning up tanks and still just warping in stalkers enough to handle 3 or more banshees?
It really stinks when you clear the ground only to lose because terran can destroy your up shooting units faster than you can make them.


Many 1-1-1 typically come with 3 banshees. It's still worth it to take down the tanks quickly. The tanks are the #1 priority in my mind - you cant even deal with the banshees if the tanks are still shelling your expo.
"Trash Micro but Win. Its Marin." - Min Chul
rsvp
Profile Blog Joined January 2006
United States2266 Posts
August 02 2011 02:12 GMT
#8
On August 02 2011 11:04 Medrea wrote:
There is a variation on this 1 1 1 allin where the terran hits with 4 banshees, not sure but more than 2, maybe 3. 4th one probably comes in later

Is cleaning up tanks and still just warping in stalkers enough to handle 3 or more banshees?
It really stinks when you clear the ground only to lose because terran can destroy your up shooting units faster than you can make them.


If you see 4+ banshees, the attack is either coming a bit later (but stronger), or he actually went 2 port banshees. Against 2 port banshees you really need a stargate for phoenix IMO. This is just something you need to scout with your obs. If it's just a delayed attack then I would just start warping in stalkers as soon as the attack comes and you can see that there are 4+ banshees. By the time the battle is over you should be able to warp in another round of stalkers, so those 2 rounds of stalkers should take care of the banshees. Just be extra careful not to lose those stalkers to the terran ground army (consider even just leaving them out of the battle).
Trusty
Profile Joined July 2010
New Zealand520 Posts
August 02 2011 02:12 GMT
#9
On August 02 2011 11:00 Anihc wrote:
Pretty solid guide. You hit all the key parts, and I agree with pretty much everything said here. Personally 1 thing I like doing is to hide half my zealots somewhere outside my base, and then flank/sandwich the terran army as it comes into my natural. This is great because it doesn't even require any forcefields (so oftentimes I only get 2 sentries total, 1 guardian shield for each half of my army) so there's less micro involved, plus it's great for avoiding the SCV barrier and easily disposing of tanks.

Here's an example: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=187808&currentpage=207#4139



I have been doing this myself, it's so good if you can't stop him sieging up @ your natural..
QTIP.
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States2113 Posts
August 02 2011 02:13 GMT
#10
On August 02 2011 11:06 SkaPunk wrote:
Nice work man. I've been following these threads too, and I think you are absolutely right. It's so important to go zeal/immo heavy until the tanks are cleNed up


Thanks man. :D I appreciate the feedback.
"Trash Micro but Win. Its Marin." - Min Chul
rsvp
Profile Blog Joined January 2006
United States2266 Posts
August 02 2011 02:14 GMT
#11
On August 02 2011 11:10 kl3zero wrote:
i am only in gold but anytime a Terren tries to 1-1-1 against me the straight up lose to a 3 gate pressure expand. The pressure early on crushes them completely and i safely get my expo up. I do not know if this is lack of player skill on the terren part as i am still in gold , but i still think it is a very strong build.

If i recall correctly it was used and killed SixJacks Major in a frequent TL open


Yes a 3 gate (or 4 gate) can straight up kill any tech build if it's not scouted and the terran is greedy, having only a bunker with marines at the top of the ramp. However if scouted the terran can react properly by having more scvs ready to repair, a wall, additional bunkers, etc., and then you will be very behind.
ForeverSleep
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada920 Posts
August 02 2011 02:21 GMT
#12
At last a nice and honest guide about this strategy. NJ, i've been waiting for someone to step up and write something like that.
"Life is what happens to you while you’re busy making other plans" - John Lennon
monk
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States8453 Posts
August 02 2011 02:43 GMT
#13
You should probably add something about when to cut probes.
Administrator
QTIP.
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States2113 Posts
August 02 2011 02:46 GMT
#14
On August 02 2011 11:43 4kmonk wrote:
You should probably add something about when to cut probes.


"Continue to make workers until the low 30’s, and throw up an additional 3 Gateways."
"Trash Micro but Win. Its Marin." - Min Chul
monk
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States8453 Posts
August 02 2011 02:54 GMT
#15
On August 02 2011 11:46 QTIP. wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 02 2011 11:43 4kmonk wrote:
You should probably add something about when to cut probes.


"Continue to make workers until the low 30’s, and throw up an additional 3 Gateways."

My bad, didn't read carefully enough. I actually tried to comb through it before I posted <.<.
Administrator
QTIP.
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States2113 Posts
August 02 2011 02:56 GMT
#16
On August 02 2011 11:54 4kmonk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 02 2011 11:46 QTIP. wrote:
On August 02 2011 11:43 4kmonk wrote:
You should probably add something about when to cut probes.


"Continue to make workers until the low 30’s, and throw up an additional 3 Gateways."

My bad, didn't read carefully enough. I actually tried to comb through it before I posted <.<.


hehe np man, I do that all the time
"Trash Micro but Win. Its Marin." - Min Chul
lazydino
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada321 Posts
August 02 2011 03:02 GMT
#17
Correct me if I'm wrong, but couldn't you grab all your stalkers and *fight* as he's moving out to your base? This sometimes forces PPD and delays the push by crucial seconds which you will need. As long as you don't lose stalkers, you should be in a better position instead of just waiting for the allin to arrive.
"I have this moron thing that I do, it's called thinking" - George Carlin
Fission
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada1184 Posts
August 02 2011 03:04 GMT
#18
As a terran who is diamond on KR region and who does this build frequently, I can confirm everything QTIP has said is good. The key points are:

1) Terran cannot pressure you early
2) stalkers suck really, really badly against tanks and marines

I would like to make a note though - I will almost always focus fire my tanks onto sentries, and then onto stalkers. Do not assume the terran is going to herp derp 1a and will splash his own marines with tank fire.

I highly recommend harassing the envoy of units across the map if you can spare the apm.
rsvp
Profile Blog Joined January 2006
United States2266 Posts
August 02 2011 03:04 GMT
#19
On August 02 2011 12:02 lazydino wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but couldn't you grab all your stalkers and *fight* as he's moving out to your base? This sometimes forces PPD and delays the push by crucial seconds which you will need. As long as you don't lose stalkers, you should be in a better position instead of just waiting for the allin to arrive.


--- If you are very confident in your micro and unit control, many advanced players will attempt to pick off units as the push approaches (forcing multiple siege/unsieges, and buying additional time). This is an advanced tactic that can be highly successful in the hands of a skilled player, but you need to be extremely careful to not lose precious units.
bankai
Profile Joined November 2010
362 Posts
August 02 2011 03:07 GMT
#20
Very nice guide on terran 1-1-1. Thought it was very clear on how to scout (very important) and good reasons to support why you believe zealot/sentry/immortal is the best way to go.

Question on your opener - you suggest going 1 gate robo FE as an option if you suspect Terran is going 1-1-1. What about 2 gate robo into expand? Is that going to be safe or does the Nexus come too late that your economy hasnt had time to kick in and support 4 gates + robo??
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