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Hey guys, I just wanted to post this thread because of the lack of threads/guides that have information about defeating mech as Zerg. I went through the guides in the recommended threads section to find outdated guides with little information about how Zerg is combating mech since the neural parasite nerf.
Mech is a very powerful style and can be difficult to deal with if it isn't scouted properly and you don't have an overall gameplan when confronted with the matchup. These are the few styles I'm aware of when playing against mech:
- mass roach with upgrades and incorporating doom-drop play while eventually teching to t3
- upgraded ling + roach + infestors, teching quickly to t3 (although I haven't really been able to make this work)
- roach with upgrades along with infestors
- roach with bling drops (banelings on top of tanks are actually not bad)
What style do you guys think is the most effective vs. Terran mech?
My thoughts: I feel that the dynamic of ZvT mech is much like Protoss, but with units that are really cost-effective against your main midgame composition. This means that you really cannot afford to engage the Terran if he's sitting in his base and must resort to some sort of mid game harassment (via drops/nydus or multi-pronged aggression) to allow you enough time to expand, take map control, and eventually get to Broodlords.
I feel that mid-game infestors are not very useful, as neural parasite is very situational and fungal is really only good against grouped up vikings/hellions. I guess IT's would be pretty good for absorbing tank fire, but once broodlords hit the field, broodlings do a better job and don't cost any energy. Obviously the go-to composition is infestor/broodlord with some kind of buffer with roaches or upgraded lings.
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The following is just opinion. Mid master zerg.
It depends on the type of mech.
Basically, the best way to deal with mech depends on whether or not he turtles to 200 / 200, or pushes earlier, and whether or not he does it on 2 or 3 bases.
In addition, whether or not he supplements with either air (banshee) or some bio, or nothing.
If he is going pure mech, it's also important to know whether or not he is aiming for a lot of hellions, or just tons and tons of tank / thor, with some hellions.
Against most styles, I prefer to max out on 3 base 4 hatch, getting +2+2+2 roach bane, with lings if there aren't too many hellions, and once I max, sacrifice that army the moment he moves out from his base, then remax on roaches.
I get a late infestation pit, and don't really rely on infestors. Instead I rely on being able to remax and have 2 engagements vs his mech army.
But the most important part of this style is chosing where you engage: away from your base, and from at least 2 angles. You don't need a surround, but you need to get at least 2 sides when you engage.
If he adds in air, and is light on tanks, roach hydra is very good in my opinion.
If he supplements with bio, I feel that infestors is the optimal choice.
But I don't like mass drops, or banelig drops. Instead, I feel that making sure you get your +2+2+2 upgrades, and engaging near his base the first time, is the key to defeating mech. If you let him get to your base, and siege up, before you engage, I feel that I've lost anyway.
I am comfortable playing against mech where he maxes and push out on 3 bases, as long as I can keep him from a 4th.
I don't tech to hive before I have near 200 / 200, 3 base 4 hatch, base 4 and 5 building or done, and +2+2+2 done or near done. I feel too fragile if I rely on getting broodlords out in time to deal with his push.
I don't mind getting ultras baneling later on instead, as long as he never seem to go marauder or banshee.
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So are you just blowing up +2 blings on thors/hellions?
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yeah if i recall if you can hit 4 units at the same time banelings are always cost efficient. the banelings supply the necessary burst damage to take out terran's DPS instantly.
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roaches are always the best answer to mech, our mineral dump (hellions) suck against roaches, and it is hard for us to have enough gas to get enough tanks to deal with large numbers of roaches
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On March 25 2012 04:08 romelako wrote: So are you just blowing up +2 blings on thors/hellions? Yeah pretty much
As long as he clumps up his units, it's cost efficient enough. And, normally, he will clump them up.
I just lose if he gets 4+ bases without me scouting it and denying them. As long as I can keep him to 3 bases, it's fine.
There was a GSL match some months back of NesTea doing it, and it seems to work out just fine.
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Personally, I used to find the typical "marine/tank" composition so tedious vs zerg just due to infestors.. However, now, playing as pure mech my winrate has skyrocketed. All I can say is what I've faced from Platinum/Diamong Zerg players, based on my own playstyle.
I more often than not turtle with 3-4 bases with really heavy tank/thor composition lategame. I find the typical response to this is HEAVY roach armies, which I just love (11 odd thors just crush roaches, with 7/8 tanks). One hard counter to mech is broodlords, as thors are extremely inefficient in killing them. This relies on you having enough so that the vikings don't clear them up in a few volleys, but also having corrupters to kill his vikings. With broodlords, you can siege his army and kill a lot of it with his own siege tank fire. Combining this with ling counterattacks can often be really hard to deal with as terran, as if you retreat and unsiege, you're easy prey to zerglings.
Also, if you suspect that he's meching, a very early roach timing can be really difficult to deal with, as Reactor Hellion expand is the more popular opening (or FE.)
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edit: herp derp miss read OP settle down
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against mech i always go very heavy ling style. When the lings don't clump up, they are still somewhat okay against hellions, plus they crush tanks/thors really hard. To get rid of hellions i use infestors for fungal (and sometimes banelings if my opponent opened marine heavy into mech, also helps vs nasty scv-pulls for thor repair). When you can chain fungal or blow up all hellions except for a few, suddenly you can pretty much a-move your upgraded lings (and later on ultralisks) and win. And most of the time, your opponent will in fact send his hellions out in a clump, trying to get rid of your creep, which makes the perfect setup for chain fungal. Just be always ahead/equal in upgrades (continous double upgrades, so kinda early hive too, with adrenal glands) and tons of lings, then you have a fair fighting chance.
The roaches were always an on-edge unit for me in ZvT, since they might not get killed by hellions that fast, but on the other hand they are pretty bad against hellions themselves (not as bad as queens, but still not super effective). They are not that fast, are armored (so more tank dmg), and most of all thors are pretty good against roaches since they do not overkill them as hard as zerglings. I could never win a fight decisively against equal opponents, just barely (or get crushed), except for when my opponent went thor heavy and i got as many infestors with neural as he had thor (which went hillarious ofc). But then again, i am only low masters
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On April 13 2012 09:17 AegiS_ wrote: I just wrote a guide on mech TvZ. (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=328746)
If all of your expansions are upgraded planetaries, drops won't kill them. Therefore you only have to defend your main from drops which you can: -Make turret rings in main with turret range upgrade -Put 2-3 siege tanks well placed in main -Just run back and defend with your army as he can't kill your upgraded expansion planetaries -If late game you'll have vikings, can patrol some outside of main
When a zerg drops my main I usually say.. oooo free units to kill!
Off a large economy I add in 3-4 tech lab'd barracks worth of marauders to help deal with roaches / ultras. That and well upgraded siege tanks should be enough to negate roaches cost effectiveness.
It helps if you read the thread.. This is for ZERG vs Terran mech, not playing mech as Terran
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I want to point out that infested terrans are really good against mech. Not only burrow ambushes - infested terrans are great against thors/tanks, so even without neural, infestors are good. Fungal the hellion/scvs, and spam infested terrans. I do recommend using one burrowed infestor at a time to try to force him to unsiege though, they rarely bring a raven.
I rush to broodlords against mech, and while I am doing it I spend minerals on queens. I use roaches to defend hellion harass, and I'll often churn out a lot of roaches if I think he is expanding too quickly (in which case I want to slow it down) or not expanding quickly enough (in which case I expect a 2 base push). You don't really want to fight his army with them, you want to counterattack and slow him down (drop tech is really good for this, but it delays your hive, so you have to commit more heavily to roaches). If you have to fight, flank from every angle.
While my greater spire finishes I make a few corruptors and immediately morph them into broodlords. It's better to make 5 corruptors and 5 broodlords than it is to make 11 corruptors and 2 broodlords. Budget your gas.
then you have an army of broodlord/corruptor/infestor/queen and you push him back across the map and kill him. Once yo get about 8 broodlords total, you don't need any more. Just rally corruptors constantly. 8 broodlords with queen/infestor can take on nearly infinite terran ground units. They will never die, but they might take a while. The only thing that actually threatens the broodlords is vikings, so you mass corruptors and shoot them out of the sky.
If he tries to base race you instead of engaging your army, race him. Don't turn around. Bring a spine with your queens if you have to. Ideally you can rebuild bases elsewhere, and try to get another spire so you can keep rallying corruptors (because they are the only unit you need to replace in your army).
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On April 13 2012 11:54 Oboeman wrote: If he tries to base race you instead of engaging your army, race him. Don't turn around. Bring a spine with your queens if you have to. Ideally you can rebuild bases elsewhere, and try to get another spire so you can keep rallying corruptors (because they are the only unit you need to replace in your army). I've always wondered whether or not it's better to try and turn around or just go for the race. Is it always better to just go for the race? Or should you just turn around if you're not that far from home?
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On April 13 2012 09:17 AegiS_ wrote: I just wrote a guide on mech TvZ. (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=328746)
If all of your expansions are upgraded planetaries, drops won't kill them. Therefore you only have to defend your main from drops which you can: -Make turret rings in main with turret range upgrade -Put 2-3 siege tanks well placed in main -Just run back and defend with your army as he can't kill your upgraded expansion planetaries -If late game you'll have vikings, can patrol some outside of main
When a zerg drops my main I usually say.. oooo free units to kill!
Off a large economy I add in 3-4 tech lab'd barracks worth of marauders to help deal with roaches / ultras. That and well upgraded siege tanks should be enough to negate roaches cost effectiveness. So basically when you mech you turtle to 200/200 with planetaries and turrets? Lol any smart zerg will pull out zvp and tech to broodlord/infestor behind a row of spines.
Personally I love to go mass roach with TONS of doom drops. I'll even throw in nyduses for flair. I think the greatest asset when going mass roach is upgrades; they're essential or your army will just get wrecked imo. That said, I do remember this one terran that hit me with a brilliant timing push, +1/+1 and only 3-4 tanks iirc. It was so early it caught me with my pants down and I lost. I'm hoping there aren't any more like him on ladder lol.
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I do a couple of things vs mech. If I scout it early I go roach till around 160, start my hive around 13-14 minutes for broodlord. With roaches I get map control, I position some around bases to stop helliion runbys, and safely take as many gas as I can. My ideal unit comp is Broodlord Corruptor with double spire.
If I am caught going muta ling when I finally scout the mech I spend all of my gas on banes and wait for him to unsiege and take his 3rd and reset his mech count. Then I expand a lot and get broodlord corruptor. Mass bane acts as a reset mark for when I realize I am behind and mess up. This obviously depends on his tank count and his specific comp. It's much better against hellion thor with very few tanks of course.
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On April 13 2012 13:21 TyrionSC2 wrote: I do a couple of things vs mech. If I scout it early I go roach till around 160, start my hive around 13-14 minutes for broodlord. With roaches I get map control, I position some around bases to stop helliion runbys, and safely take as many gas as I can. My ideal unit comp is Broodlord Corruptor with double spire.
If I am caught going muta ling when I finally scout the mech I spend all of my gas on banes and wait for him to unsiege and take his 3rd and reset his mech count. Then I expand a lot and get broodlord corruptor. Mass bane acts as a reset mark for when I realize I am behind and mess up. This obviously depends on his tank count and his specific comp. It's much better against hellion thor with very few tanks of course.
I'd say banelings are only good if you catch him unsieged, and they are NOT good vs thors.. Take 20 banelings to kill a thor, but they kill the squishy mech units (tanks/hellions) really easy.. If he's stupid enough to unsiege all his tanks at once, banelings with speed on creep can easily wipe out the important units.
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Hey there,
only Dia so please consider that. I recently switched out of LingFestor (dat poor Inf control -.-) into LingBaneMuta. In my most recent games I went mass mass Muta vs.pure Mech (or AirMech) into 4-5 base inf/broods. This actually works pretty fine, second Spire for them double ups, all minerals into spines.Unfortunately you absolutely need at least 6 gas for this (in my opinion). It keeps the T at bay, you can snipe new bases, hellions are afraid to move out etc.
Thrors are actually not that good vs magic boxed mutas with decent ups, but you have to be really really careful. One misclick into GG.
Greetz
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I've been thinking that ultras might be better than broods against thor heavy compositions, since an average number of broods (8-10) are barely equal against an equal number thor, but obviously with a tank heavy comp broods are mandatory. Typically I go roach opener into fast third and fourth and spreading a lot of creep and threatening counters while working towards hive.
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On April 14 2012 04:47 KimJongChill wrote: I've been thinking that ultras might be better than broods against thor heavy compositions, since an average number of broods (8-10) are barely equal against an equal number thor, but obviously with a tank heavy comp broods are mandatory. Typically I go roach opener into fast third and fourth and spreading a lot of creep and threatening counters while working towards hive.
If you have even 2 queens with your army, thors are almost completely useless against broodlords. The only significant threat is vikings and thats why you can go mass corruptor supported by ~8 broodlords, infestors and queens. Make sure you bring overseers and overlords. It helps to drop creep and occasionally put down a creep tumour to give your queens some semblance of mobility during engagements.
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Why is roach drop preferred over blings on scvs/lings ? Those have way more damage output, while roaches are a tank unit.
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On April 14 2012 05:13 ArcticRaven wrote: Why is roach drop preferred over blings on scvs/lings ? Those have way more damage output, while roaches are a tank unit.
You don't want him to be able to defend with just hellions, because those are the mobile part of his army. Also, killing infrastructure is more important than killing workers. you want to start killing add-ons and factories and refineries, and force him to bring units back to defend it. If he attacks too early (not enough tanks), you can just kill him with mass roach, so it's all part of a solid game plan. If he makes only tanks (not enough thors) you force him to unsiege by dropping directly on his army during the battle. Think of it as a 4th flank.
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One of the most effective ways to beat a pure mech T whos turtling on 2 or 3 bases is roach drop, that and a large force to the third to snipe is deadly, also you can send ovies in as a divesion to snipe third again with full army, works best if T has a sensor tower in main for drops. but roachs straight up vs an advancing tank line with thors and helions is very tough even if you remax 2-3 times, because after main battle your rally points will be off and T can just kill small packs of roaches rallied wrongly to the mech ball.
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On April 14 2012 04:47 KimJongChill wrote: I've been thinking that ultras might be better than broods against thor heavy compositions, since an average number of broods (8-10) are barely equal against an equal number thor, but obviously with a tank heavy comp broods are mandatory. Typically I go roach opener into fast third and fourth and spreading a lot of creep and threatening counters while working towards hive.
As Oboe said, Thors are almost worthless vs broodlords.. They do next to do damage to them, and being the only terran unit which can shoot up, if you can catch him without vikings, it's gg.
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iv done it with muta ling bane when they try an do just marine hellion thor which is what happens sometimes, but other than that iv seen idra do roach prong attacks an teching to lots of broods infestors and corrupters while expanding alot. He makes it look easy so i think once you get on 3 or 2 base check to see if hes going 2base allin and if hes taking a third start harassing alot until you can get broods or ultras. Ive beaten mass thor with mass ultra but it i had to max on ultras again so i dont thing that is really that viable. more ultra ling bane. banes for hellions ultra ling for thor an tank.
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As a TvZ meching Terran, roach infestor is laughably easy. Grab a large handful of tanks, scan, leapfrog, a-move hellions and thors and laugh. The roaches die before getting close and infestors won't be able to fungal anything of any real value. I cut tanks if there are no roaches because that means muta sling bling or sling infestor, which are easily flattened by hellion Thor. I have the most trouble with the late game brood lord corruptor infestor combination because mech has no solid counter for the brood lords since the ghost nerf. Vikings work, but can be fungaled and beat by corruptors.
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On April 14 2012 09:06 RJM95 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 04:47 KimJongChill wrote: I've been thinking that ultras might be better than broods against thor heavy compositions, since an average number of broods (8-10) are barely equal against an equal number thor, but obviously with a tank heavy comp broods are mandatory. Typically I go roach opener into fast third and fourth and spreading a lot of creep and threatening counters while working towards hive. As Oboe said, Thors are almost worthless vs broodlords.. They do next to do damage to them, and being the only terran unit which can shoot up, if you can catch him without vikings, it's gg.
Both of you are wrong about thors being useless/worthless against broods. Thors are pretty good against BOTH ultras and broods. Sure, lots of broods are good against terrans who go with the heavy tank style, but that style isnt optimal. The best mech style IMO is one with only 4-5 tanks, mass thor, mass hellion, a raven, 2-4 vikings thrown in, and maybe a few banshess. Throw down PDD to protect the vikings and have the vikings and thors target the broods while having the hellions follow the thors. This way the hellions can defend the thors against the broodlings. I don't even remember the last time I lost against broods when going with a heavy thor composition. I lose with mech when I can't defend the roach drop in the main + roach attack at the natural, or some sort of early attack.
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My ZvT, ignoring he terran build: - 4 queen, no gas until ~44 food - Tech to muta - If he is going mech - make only 12-15 mutas, max out on 3 base with ling roach after that. When close to maxed out, morph most lings into banes (mainly if you have 500-1000 extra gas since roaches and lings are not very gas heavy). Make upgrades!!! Keep the army near the enemy base, hidden if possible. When he moves out (to attack or take a 3rd) crash the army. Also get drops. If he tries to move out slowly (siege tank leap), just drop/nydus his main. - if he goes Marine/Tank - standard muta/ling/bane, but instead of getting over 16 mutas, get upgrades. And ALWAYS attack his army while its moving. If it sieges up, they style is having big problems dealing with it, until 2/2 is done for lings and mutas are at least 1/1.
If replays are needed, tell me, I have 2 games with these 2 types of terran playing against me on a different machine. I'm mid master (this happens when you play 3 games for the entire weekend ).
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If there are admins here - delete this post Sorry
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ZvMech seems quite unexplored tbh, but quick third powering into 3 base 4 hatch roach drop pressure while double expanding and teching brood corruptor infestor queen seems reasonable.
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On April 23 2012 15:51 ckolev wrote:My ZvT, ignoring he terran build: - 4 queen, no gas until ~44 food - Tech to muta - If he is going mech - make only 12-15 mutas, max out on 3 base with ling roach after that. When close to maxed out, morph most lings into banes (mainly if you have 500-1000 extra gas since roaches and lings are not very gas heavy). Make upgrades!!! Keep the army near the enemy base, hidden if possible. When he moves out (to attack or take a 3rd) crash the army. Also get drops. If he tries to move out slowly (siege tank leap), just drop/nydus his main. - if he goes Marine/Tank - standard muta/ling/bane, but instead of getting over 16 mutas, get upgrades. And ALWAYS attack his army while its moving. If it sieges up, they style is having big problems dealing with it, until 2/2 is done for lings and mutas are at least 1/1. If replays are needed, tell me, I have 2 games with these 2 types of terran playing against me on a different machine. I'm mid master (this happens when you play 3 games for the entire weekend ).
if he is making reactored hellions continuously or blue flamed hellions you are not getting his third up while he builds his cc in his base. in 3 base vs 3 base scenario, without upgrading roaches first because you get mutas you will get roflstomped at 200/200
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personally i like to get a few roachs when his helion numbers increase, then go into grades and drops for roachs aswell as a few banes. In the first drop try to hit the mineral line with banes and use roachs to hit anything else, drop in multiple locations keeping him in his base while going infestors and hive(start a spire when hive starts) and expand alot. add on about 8 infestors and more to broods. With roachs and infestors and making sure he does no run by with helions u shud keep him in his base long enough. ( i find its ok to put up some spines and at your futher expansions for defence).
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personally i instantly go up to 4 bases (used as macro hatch if he 2 base allins) and research roach attack and armor while getting just a hand full of mutas to force out thors and then use roach drops and get hive mainly for 3-3 roaches. if they take a 3rd too early rallied roaches zvp style do really well because he's been forced into making thors over tanks he can't really defend.
counter attacks are really great when they're out of position and/or move out too early. you basically want to force them to stay at home until he has enough stuff to kill everything you have and everything you remake after and that takes lots of time.
i like going up to almost 90 drones saturating 4 bases and just throwing stuff at him keeping his army as small as possible. it surprises me every time how just loading up all your roaches in overlords and dropping them on his army just kinda kills it. overlords/corruptors/mutas are really good to mess with thor ai also.
super late game broodlord infestor corruptor usually beats mech compositions that don't have a million ravens but i like to avoid that situation if i can because i feel like nukes all over the place while gathering raven energy and transitioning into bc raven viking is actually impossible to beat.
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I'm not sure if I'm the only one, so far this has worked for me up through diamond... upgraded roach/infestor is very strong if you use neural parasite to your advantage. Roaches/IT can usually tank enough shots that you can pull off a neural parasite on one thor or tank.
Even on small maps like Shakuras I try to keep map control so that when the army moves out I have enough space to presplit my roaches for a good spread or even pincer attack. It makes target firing of infestors much more difficult and lets me get close enough to neural parasite their units.
Once you get that parasited thor (closest enemy unit) to draw tank fire, you can neural parasite even more units and it just snowballs. Usually it lets me trade effficiently with the mech army head-on, as long as I keep my infestors (so burrow is an important upgrade). Even though it usually isn't enough to completely win the game in one battle, it puts me far enough ahead to comfortably go double spire/greater spire for broodlord tech.
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Most roach/ling or roach/ling/bane timings do quite well against mech openings, and in the mid-game I generally play upgraded roaches ---> Infestors ---> Broodlords.
You can also try the mass ling/ultra/infestor style, but it can be difficult to hold their 200/200 push.
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On April 23 2012 18:10 Manimal_pro wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 23 2012 15:51 ckolev wrote:My ZvT, ignoring he terran build: - 4 queen, no gas until ~44 food - Tech to muta - If he is going mech - make only 12-15 mutas, max out on 3 base with ling roach after that. When close to maxed out, morph most lings into banes (mainly if you have 500-1000 extra gas since roaches and lings are not very gas heavy). Make upgrades!!! Keep the army near the enemy base, hidden if possible. When he moves out (to attack or take a 3rd) crash the army. Also get drops. If he tries to move out slowly (siege tank leap), just drop/nydus his main. - if he goes Marine/Tank - standard muta/ling/bane, but instead of getting over 16 mutas, get upgrades. And ALWAYS attack his army while its moving. If it sieges up, they style is having big problems dealing with it, until 2/2 is done for lings and mutas are at least 1/1. If replays are needed, tell me, I have 2 games with these 2 types of terran playing against me on a different machine. I'm mid master (this happens when you play 3 games for the entire weekend ). if he is making reactored hellions continuously or blue flamed hellions you are not getting his third up while he builds his cc in his base. in 3 base vs 3 base scenario, without upgrading roaches first because you get mutas you will get roflstomped at 200/200
Not quite. Your mutas can push back the hellions, so you can take a 3rd. If this is "too delayed" for you, just double expand. There is no way he can stop you in the next 2-3 minutes. Also your mutas should not attack or focus so much on harassing the economy. The goal of the mutas is to keep the terran defending his 2 bases, until you are on 3-4 bases and you are maxed out. Also I said that you get 12-15 mutas max. So all extra gas goes for upgrades, as roaches do not cost that much gas. With 6-8 extractors, you will have enough gas to build banelings later on.
Trust me, it works out.
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I feel slightly silly. Just now, I played a ZvT vs a meching plat. I didn't scout it until I was nearly maxed on muta ling bane... i threw down roach warren and greater spire, delayed, got some corruptors and ~8 BL with infestors.....and tech switched to ultra ling to "counter" the inevitable mass viking. Ended up losing from just a buttload of thor/hellion.
Would the right choice have been to continue massing corruptors and infestors? if i remember correctly, i had 3/3 for melee, +1 air attk and that's it. I had a clear macro advantage -- that's what got me up the leagues so fast :D in general, if i'm sitting at 5000/3000 against thor/hellion/viking, which unit composition is the best? are mass corruptor + fungal actually cost effective vs vikings? oh and queens. I'm tempted to write on my desk "MAKE MOAR QUEENS"
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^ The whole 'tech switching' thing of bl to ultra doesn't really happen anymore. You can deal with any sort of terran AA with corruptors, infestors, queens, or mass spores as you slowpush.
The metagame recently has started bringing back ultras, but the way they are used now is in conjunction with fast hive, and then ultras on 3 base while you take your fourth and use aggression with ultras to buy you time for broodlords. It's not so much a tech switch, a way to think of it is that ultras are like t2.5 units you get after ling/infestor or ling/bane/muta, then you add some ultras, and then you go bl/infestor.
If you stay on lair tech a really long time, or it's already 4+ base late late game, or you already have bl tech or bl's out, you should just stick to them.
You don't need many corruptors, but if terran is massing vikings, just a couple are good, as well as reinforcing with them. Infestors are the great against them, as is transfuse, and if your creep spread is good and the game is late enough, mass spores slow pushing.
Check out my ZvT guide, the replays in where I am vs mech teching quickly, and the 2 rax ling/bane/muta into extreme lategame.
but yea, ultras are crap against mech. dont ever make ultras against mech.
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Try playing with filtersc's opening. It feels really strong vs. Mech. Double upgrade roach aggression, mix in drops and voila. Thors gets focused down easier, economy is strong and there are so many roaches that banshees cannot easily deny aggression.
I'm not a big fan of sitting on my ass till the mech army gets strong, it needs to be kept down and outplayed with roach mobility.
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The way to look at mech is like a puzzle. Mech mainly really work with all parts of it there. Thor, Tank, Hellion + support ( Raven/Banshee, most often.)
If you're capable of making any of the puzzle pieces weak, you've got quite an easy time picking the rest apart. What I will often do if my opponent opens mech is to apply drop play. However, I apply it as soon as my drop tech kicks in! Unlike many Zerg's, I've had an easy time dealing with mech. The point is just to hit it at around the 11 min mark with the roach drop. Trading roaches for mech at this point in the game is perfect.
It'll be harder for him to get out a scary army, and if you've traded even remotely decently with your drops, there's no way in hell he can secure a third. Versus a direct mech style I'll keep trying to trade the entire time until I know my T3 tech will kick in before he can move out. The thought is quite simple. Drop 20 roaches on 5 tanks, see what happens. Run 40 roaches into a 10 tank line and see what happens. I know where we find the highest efficiency. I've yet to experience a Terran having much more than 5-6 tanks or 2tanks and 2 thors at the 11 min mark where my drop hits. I've also yet to lose to mech I've scouted in time.
~ EU mid masters Z.
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On May 27 2012 11:26 Belial88 wrote: ^ The whole 'tech switching' thing of bl to ultra doesn't really happen anymore. You can deal with any sort of terran AA with corruptors, infestors, queens, or mass spores as you slowpush.
The metagame recently has started bringing back ultras, but the way they are used now is in conjunction with fast hive, and then ultras on 3 base while you take your fourth and use aggression with ultras to buy you time for broodlords. It's not so much a tech switch, a way to think of it is that ultras are like t2.5 units you get after ling/infestor or ling/bane/muta, then you add some ultras, and then you go bl/infestor.
If you stay on lair tech a really long time, or it's already 4+ base late late game, or you already have bl tech or bl's out, you should just stick to them.
You don't need many corruptors, but if terran is massing vikings, just a couple are good, as well as reinforcing with them. Infestors are the great against them, as is transfuse, and if your creep spread is good and the game is late enough, mass spores slow pushing.
Check out my ZvT guide, the replays in where I am vs mech teching quickly, and the 2 rax ling/bane/muta into extreme lategame.
but yea, ultras are crap against mech. dont ever make ultras against mech.
Thank you belial! The tech switch DID fool him (he made 25 Vikings), but that number of Vikings can actually kill 3-4 ultras if he has good upgrades.. I just read your ZvT guide, extremely helpful!
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Well, i guess it really depends on how you like to play and how the Terran is playing mech. If it is very tank heavy with a few thors and hellions i like to go roach bane muta, purely because of the potential harrass and damage it is capable of doing. note: this style is really difficult to control, and you also need to be extremely cautious when it comes to engaging the mech army, for a good example of this i would like to reccomend NesTea's game against Virus in GSL October(I think) versus a thor and hellion comp, i think roach infestor is the way to go. The moment i scout the terran is going mech, i always go roach bane in the early/mid game, because of the damage output it has seeing as you will have a much larger army. In the lategame broodlords with infestors and ultra tech available is probably the best. I like to use my broodlords extremely offensively, trying to make the terran go heavy viking, when my broods eventually die, i like to remix with ultra link/infestor depending on the tank count also, do not underestimate lings! The amount of damage 32 lings dropped into the terran main can do, aswell as runbys. good luck!
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