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StimmedProbe's 1 Base Battlecruiser TvZ (Yes you read that right) Last Update: January 13th, 2013
Pew pew pew pew pew pew!
"Powerful Warship" -In game description
Basic Idea:
Battlecruisers? What!? You cant be serious StimmedProbe! Well guess what, I'm serious! This idea came to me when I was reviewing some of my older builds, in particular the 4-thor rush vs zerg. The core concept is the same, ultra high tech units that snowball out of control after the first engagement.
However the thor has a few inherent weaknesses. First of all, it doesn't have a 10 range "devastating plasma cannon" it has a clumsy 7 range damage over time spell, which for your information does less dps than a thor's auto attack. In addition the energy cost is higher (150 vs 125). Secondly, a large amount of initial roaches or follow-up lings can overwhelm the thors. Good creep spread also leads to hoards of zerg units overpowering the mighty thor. Battlecruisers are immune to lings, roaches and creep. We will abuse the fact that battlecruisers cannot be hit by anything except queens and spores early game and that scvs can repair to make zergs unhappy =]
The build opens up with a very fast tech to starport and a small marine/hellion drop to harass the zerg and keep them on their toes. Meanwhile a doom push of marines, hellions and battlecruisers builds up back at home. The attack hits with about 20 marines, 10 hellions, 1 medivac with full energy, 2 battlecruisers, 6 scvs and 1 yamato cannon at 10:30-10:45. A follow-up push with 4 battlecruisers and various support units happens a few minutes later if necessary. I have a pretty high win rate at masters/gm with this build, and this build is pretty simple to execute so pretty much anyone with a little micro and multi-tasking can use this.
Build Order:
10 depot 12 rax (marine -> rest -> marine -> reactor) 13 gas -> 3 in gas 16 depot 16 marine 17 orbital 17 gas -> 3 in gas 17 factory (hellion -> long rest -> reactor) 18 marine 21 reactor on rax (4:05) 21 depot 22 starport (1 mvac -> tech lab -> battlecruisers) 22 hellion 28 depot 29 medivac 31 fusion core (5:30) 36 tech lab on starport 37 depot 43 battlecruiser (6:40) 50 depot 50 reactor on factory ~8:00 Cut SCVs ~9:30 Start Yamato Cannon
FPVOD of me doing the build: http://www.twitch.tv/cgfatal/b/356226865
Replay vs AI available in the replay section below.
Key Build Order Points:
- Make 1 hellion only till your reactor is done, if you don't follow this rule your battlecruisers will come out 10-15 seconds late
- Reactor on factory after the battlecruiser starts, if you don't follow this rule your battlecruisers will come out 15-20 seconds late
- Don't miss any mules (5-10 energy leeway max)
- Make a bunker if you think something fishy is going on
- 3rd depot should be at the side to check for an overlord
- Marines should deny overlords from seeing if there is a natural if possible
- Do not get supply blocked (duh)
- Battlecruisers cost 400/300 and 6 supply
- Make sure your first hellion scouts what your opponent is doing (VERY IMPORTANT)
Dealing with Aggression
- Mass lings (~5:30)-> You have a wall, stay behind it
- Baneling bust (~7:00) -> You are probably dead unless you scouted it and have 2 bunkers in place. Late baneling busts are easier to scout because of the initial hellion.
- Ling/Bane/Roach (~8:45) -> Safe as long as your 1st hellion does his job
Auto-Win Builds:
- You auto-win vs any fast tech build (2 base infestor, 2 base muta)
- You auto-win vs any fast 3rd hatch (only dumb/greedy zergs do this when they scout gas from you)
- If he doesn't do one of those two things, you gotta micro and execute the attack properly
Harassment Execution:
You will have 1 medviac, 6 marines and a hellion to play around with at 6:30-7:00. This little group of units can actually kill off 5-10 workers and a queen if you micro properly and get a little lucky. I like to run up directly to the queen so she cannot run. Micro the hellion individually if the drones run, that's where you get most of your kills from. Lift off if in danger. You can come back 2-3 times to annoy the zerg. The key of this stage is to go for guaranteed free damage. DO NOT LOSE YOUR MEDIVAC!
The attack:
So you have killed a few drones, bruised up a queen or two, have control of the watch towers and your zerg buddy only knows you have gas, a rax/fact/starport and no natural. Most zergs can conclude that some sort of all in is coming from this. However most of them believe it will be a marine/hellion or marine/maud/hellion or marine/hellion/tank push off one base. If they scout your starport with a tech lab they will feel totally safe with mass queens and spores because they believe it is banshees. Only if they are able to see the fusion core do they know battlecruisers are coming. If they do not scout the fact that you went battlecruisers, you will just crush him (replay #2). I like to bring 6 scvs only, since queen dps is bad, and you need a decent economy to support a reactor rax, reactor factory and battlecruiser production.
You must micro the attack properly. This means splitting your units, and micro-ing your army based on what composition he has chosen to defend with. If he has a wall of spines already completed, elevator your units into his main with your medivac. If the front defense looks breakable, go for the front instead.
- Start off by yamato-ing the highest energy queen.
- Second check what unit composition he has
- If he has banelings start splitting your units
- If he has roaches, try to get a good concave
- If he has lings, keep your units balled up
- Micro back your hurt units (especially the medivac and battlecruisers)
- Don't let your battlecruiser get hit by a spore
- If your ground army is getting overrun, lift the last units into the medivac
If you cannot kill him directly, keep pumping battlecruisers, marines and hellions. Once you hit 4 battlecruisers go for another attack. In the mean time pick off queens for free with yamato. Your battlecruisers can also pick off the outside gas mine on some maps before the queens can do anything about it. Deny him a 3rd base with your units if possible as well. Float your main command center down to the low ground if needed, you should have a decent gas bank, so no need to start refineries down there immediately.
Conclusion:
This is an extremely fun micro and execution based all in. If your harassment goes well and your opponent doesn't really know what you are doing you have a very high chance of winning the game with a little micro. Practice the build order vs the AI and have a few goes on ladder. If you have any questions feel free to ask them, I'd be happy to answer them!
"Where are your queens now?"
Replays:
Replay #1 Akilon Flats - (16 minutes) (Recommended) -> http://drop.sc/294460 Description: This is how games normally look. My opponent opens up very normally with 4 queens and speed with a spine to defend. He then goes for some roach pressure, which is heavily delayed because of my drop harassment. He decides to go with roach/bane for defense with queens/spines/lings to supplement the army. Notice how the push is fairly slow and methodical. He taps out after my 4 battlecruisers destroy his spore wall.
Replay #2 - Antiga (16 minutes) -> http://drop.sc/294461 Description: 4 queen with speed opening. My opponent did not scout the battlecruisers and was expecting a 1 base ground push. My opponent cut workers at 35, and pumped pure units in anticipation of a ground push. The ground army is almost wiped out to the ling/bane despite a good split. However, the battlecruisers snowball out of control and a follow-up with with 4 battlecruisers ends the lives of his mutas and queens and he leaves.
Replay #3 - Ohana (16 minutes) -> http://drop.sc/294462 Description: My opponent opens up by droning up his two bases and he takes a 3rd while getting some upgrades and lair using his queens for defense. In this game I mess up my positioning horribly. I put my marines/hellions into a corner and banelings crash into them during my first push. However, I killed enough drones for the follow-up push to still work. Again, 4 battlecruiser follow-up seems to be extremely strong.
Replay #4 - Akilon Flats (11 minutes) -> http://drop.sc/294463 Description: My opponent goes for a Ling/Bane/Roach all in. My first hellion scouts the roaches incoming and I prepare a bunker back at my base. It fails horribly and the counter push kills him instantly.
Replay #5 - Build Order vs AI (11 minutes) -> http://drop.sc/294464 Description: A nice clean execution of the build order vs an AI.
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Looks like a build for the lolz. I would try this if i was terran :D
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On January 13 2013 21:16 Aelfric wrote: Looks like a build for the lolz. I would try this if i was terran :D
It's fun AND it's effective! Yep, protoss and zerg are incredibly boring and there's not much room for innovation/creativity. This is why I love terran =]
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This looks hilarious I'm absolutely going to try this if I actually play WoL again before HoTS comes out.
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Looks fun, gonna try it out now!
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On January 13 2013 21:20 StimmedProbe wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2013 21:16 Aelfric wrote: Looks like a build for the lolz. I would try this if i was terran :D It's fun AND it's effective! Yep, protoss and zerg are incredibly boring and there's not much room for innovation/creativity. This is why I love terran =]
Zerg lacks creativity because the investor is so strong. Protoss pretty much has to play 1 way, otherwise you just die to the other 2 races. Imbalance kills creativity o.O
Interesting build though. I guess being active with hellions is pretty key to not dying to baneling busts
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Nice...another guide from you man haha you love to do those 1 base builds!
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I havent played sc2 in months , I will definitely update the game and try this shit out ! looks like some decent fun times incoming
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will definitely try this look fun as hell XDDD
Thanks for the guide
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On January 13 2013 22:36 Soicx wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2013 21:20 StimmedProbe wrote:On January 13 2013 21:16 Aelfric wrote: Looks like a build for the lolz. I would try this if i was terran :D It's fun AND it's effective! Yep, protoss and zerg are incredibly boring and there's not much room for innovation/creativity. This is why I love terran =] Zerg lacks creativity because the investor is so strong. Protoss pretty much has to play 1 way, otherwise you just die to the other 2 races. Imbalance kills creativity o.O Interesting build though. I guess being active with hellions is pretty key to not dying to baneling busts
Ever tried Zerg playing without Infestor? Not possible! The Infestor is strong no question but Zerg lacks possibilitys because you cant engage anything with any Zerg army without infestors.
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I love your builds stimmedprobe, please never stop writing guides.
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This is awesome.
As a zerg, I'm wondering how to defeat this rather odd build. Assume I'm not baneling busting and get a decent scout off. What should I build? Is there enough time to get corruptors?
I linked this build to a terran friend of mine, to use on a zerg friend of mine in our upcoming LAN. Getting defeated by a one base BC build is the shiz. But I'd rather not die to it myself either.. :D
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Thx for sharing your build.
On January 14 2013 04:46 Henk wrote: This is awesome.
As a zerg, I'm wondering how to defeat this rather odd build. Assume I'm not baneling busting and get a decent scout off. What should I build? Is there enough time to get corruptors?
I linked this build to a terran friend of mine, to use on a zerg friend of mine in our upcoming LAN. Getting defeated by a one base BC build is the shiz. But I'd rather not die to it myself either.. :D
The zerg needs roach/hydra. I haven't experiment with that all-in yet, but I m pretty sure a regular 2 bases roach/hydra (stephano style recently) would crush it.
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There have been 1 base BC builds before. I don't believe those had Yamato and I don't think they were as well prepared for some of the zerg responses to seeing a 1 base terran.
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On January 14 2013 04:57 Ambre wrote:Thx for sharing your build. Show nested quote +On January 14 2013 04:46 Henk wrote: This is awesome.
As a zerg, I'm wondering how to defeat this rather odd build. Assume I'm not baneling busting and get a decent scout off. What should I build? Is there enough time to get corruptors?
I linked this build to a terran friend of mine, to use on a zerg friend of mine in our upcoming LAN. Getting defeated by a one base BC build is the shiz. But I'd rather not die to it myself either.. :D The zerg needs roach/hydra. I haven't experiment with that all-in yet, but I m pretty sure a regular 2 bases roach/hydra (stephano style recently) would crush it.
Stephano's first timing is with roaches only around 10-10:30 (I think), hydras aren't made until the second wave a few minutes later. They won't be ready for this attack.
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I don't think i have ever used a BC in a ladder match (I don't play much) but I'm going to try this!
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Awwwwwwwwww StimmedProbe? Again?
I remember racking up a decent number of kills with your 4 thor push.
Time for me to work again on your "of course won't work" build!
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I'd bet on lings banelings queens and spores holding this well.
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On January 14 2013 06:21 2v2levels wrote: I'd bet on lings banelings queens and spores holding this well. should watch the replays provided before saying stuff like that as it clearly works against these
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I guess it can work as long as the zerg doesn't get an overlord in to see your starport with tech lab. I always open 6 queen and think I would be able to hold this maybe even without scouting it. Wouldn't mind trying in some customs some day, but seems you are on NA.
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I practiced this with my terran friend on the ladder (me being zerg) and it's hard to win if you didn't scout it. Queens do a very very poor job of holding this (I had 15 full energy queens for 4 BC and queens just don't damage them- You need ground support. (I held those back to see if mass queen would do the trick). Mutas aren't that great either. However I banelings are very useful here I feel, they can take out those pesky repairing SCVs and a lot of the ground forces.
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On January 13 2013 22:36 Soicx wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2013 21:20 StimmedProbe wrote:On January 13 2013 21:16 Aelfric wrote: Looks like a build for the lolz. I would try this if i was terran :D It's fun AND it's effective! Yep, protoss and zerg are incredibly boring and there's not much room for innovation/creativity. This is why I love terran =] Zerg lacks creativity because the investor is so strong. Protoss pretty much has to play 1 way, otherwise you just die to the other 2 races. Imbalance kills creativity o.O Interesting build though. I guess being active with hellions is pretty key to not dying to baneling busts
Zerg lacks creativity because the race was designed full of boring, 1 dimensional units that have slow attack/turn speed and cannot do any interesting micro to speak of.
The infestor is just one of the race's many "problems."
Of course, the race was designed that way, so these problems are all from a design standpoint >.>.
Some might argue that Zerg is actually entertaining.
As for me, I do my part and try to play ling/muta as much as possible.
And this build is hilarious. I love things that are unconventional and this certainly seems to be like that.
Good job utilizing battlecruisers for an allin, lol.
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for people saying "wonder the best way to beat this weird build"
dont worry lol, top master zergs will destroy this. sure it can work sometimes whatevers
I am all in support of finding fun cheeses to use. im not insulting the OP. cheeses are fun and a part of the game and can punish blind greedy play
but just correcting the people thinking that this cant be dealt with easily by fairly normal standard zerg play
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Thanks a lot for posting this. Ever since I read your 4 Thor build, I've been doing it every game. Except I use it defensively since I was tired of winning every game with the push, without using much skill lol.
I'll definitely try this one in my next TvZ :p
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Hey Stimmed I like your style, what do you do in TvT and TvP? Looking for fun, gimmicky builds to rebuild my interest.
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On January 13 2013 21:05 StimmedProbe wrote: StimmedProbe's 1 Base Battlecruiser TvZ (Yes you read that right) Last Update: January 13th, 2013
Pew pew pew pew pew pew!
This little detail made me smile pewpew!!
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hehe, naama once won with something similar against idra.
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I was using when playing terran "The biscuit" (it's the build that total biscuit does against terran. Basicly proxy battlecruiser) but this looks cool... Also i see you are highM/GM so i feel that this build is a little more solid. (The Biscuit was when TB was in gold). Also my terran is like... Wood... or PVC maybe.
I'm going to try this tonight and see if i can make a fellow zerg cry.... If i don't supply block myself too much ^^
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Anyone else remember Torch's BC rush in the GSL Open? What ever happened to him anyway.
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On January 14 2013 23:07 govie wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2013 21:05 StimmedProbe wrote: StimmedProbe's 1 Base Battlecruiser TvZ (Yes you read that right) Last Update: January 13th, 2013
Pew pew pew pew pew pew! This little detail made me smile pewpew!! Haha, I just won my first game with this build. "Pew pew pew" is such a fun reply to "suck my dick" or "fuck you."
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maybe you should figure out a way to play sth. like this out of 2 base, cruisers are HUGE against zerg
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Ok so i tried it yesterday night by memory in my placements mathces (i'm gold now i think. Did just 4 games). And it was... a lot of fun I won 2times with it. Loss 1 time (but guy was marked as Diamond after it) and the last one.. It wasn't a zerg so... Didn't try it (and lost) ^^
This build is fun. Even if you mess it a little (because you are not so crisp with timing and micro than a Master player) it's fun and can get you wins (and BMs :p).
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So I tried the build and I managed to kill off his natural and most of his main, but he was able to run his workers away to his 3rd, keep making and saccing lings to kill off my ground army and pump out corruptors. How do you deal with this? This was vs a master player.
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Dude, i always loved your builds, and you keep amazing me each time. Again, my thanks for sharing this, going to try it on ladder now
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Looks fun. I'll definately use this when I decided to start playing SC2 again!
Ohh what rank are you and what rank was the best opponent that you've beaten with this build?
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On February 04 2013 17:40 thezanursic wrote: Looks fun. I'll definately use this when I decided to start playing SC2 again!
Ohh what rank are you and what rank was the best opponent that you've beaten with this build? iirc he is GM on SEA and Master on KR Server I know because i'm his fan
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I like it. The fact that the build is not common makes it hard to handle.
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
Yay another stimmedprobe guide :D
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It just sounds to cool not to try even when playing HotS
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i am not sure to be happy or sad or mad, i just played agianst this (off raced as zerg) and lost misreably... i was in chock so i went to tl and saw this....
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I beleive I played against this in hots(there's only so many battlecruiser rush builds). I played standard and beat it "easily", bc's did more dmg then I thought vs queens lols.
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On January 18 2013 02:40 L33tmaster wrote: So I tried the build and I managed to kill off his natural and most of his main, but he was able to run his workers away to his 3rd, keep making and saccing lings to kill off my ground army and pump out corruptors. How do you deal with this? This was vs a master player.
Where was his spire? It sounds like you had a shot to kill it, but didnt. Spire/hydra den are the two builldings that can challenge your tech supremacy, they need to go. When I one base Ill let the zerg have the extra larva by attacking tech buildings first, trying to cut him off from his best option or upgrades.
Edit to add: anybody proxy the fusion core? With the exception of cloud kingdom, it shouldnt be hard to do.
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This would be great if queens couldn't kite battlecruisers.
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On February 07 2013 07:51 Uncultured wrote:This would be great if queens couldn't kite battlecruisers. Yamato :D
Looking forward to trying this out when I get the chance!
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I murdered Zergs with this just now, 10 out of 10 (i just lost my first game cause i screwed up the timing but when i figured it out it is devastating). I swear its unstoppable at High Platinum. Zergs just either do mutas, or infestors or lings or roaches (lol) massive spines when they realise a allin is comming. It takes more skill to hold then to execute, and the BCs simply cannot die with repairs. Well done, clap clap :D
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