Sorry to rant on here. I know this is not the place. My game just needs a lot of help, that's all. And I kind of have a shit attitude about it all. Sorry
Again, sorry guys for being so sour in this thread. I struggle with loss, always have and it was very inappropriate to bitch to you guys about it.
IMO, you don't need to apologize. This is a help me thread - we're here to help! "So I tried again to ladder because I love to make myself depressed" made me LOL (with you and not at you of course ).
One thing that helps me is trying to gage my mind state before I play. If it's been a while (I get rusty after only 3 days off), I do something less stressful for a few nights in a row to get back into it. Day9 recomends 4v4. I also like unranked, build order drills, 1v1 obs games, & arcade. If I notice that I get frustrated and feel slow no matter what I do, I take a few hours off or the whole night off, and try to come back to it later with enough sleep & enough food in my belly.
Then when I feel like laddering but I'm still rusty I try some allins and cheeses, simply because a narrower focus than a macro game is better warm up than going right into a ladder game with a macro style. That one's debatable but it works for me occasionally.
SC2John has a great post from months ago about planning a strategy before going into a game - I'd check that out http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/433514-sc2-notes-how-to-plan-a-strategy . Given that, I sometimes say to myself before the game "I'm gonna work on constantly staying in motion and rely on the pre-game plan, my build order and my experience to use that constant motion to win". This one's hard - I usually have some success for the first 5 minutes, then I slow down. Another one is to say "I'm going to try to stay completely calm, and be completely focused on executing the build and sticking to the plan, and if I keep the emotions out of it as much as possible it will free up my brain to execute." Also really tough, but I wonder if pro players can get to this level.
You've probably heard all that shit before, so here's one that I recently discovered after watching this video: Try using the Tilt to your advantage. Channel the anger into moving faster, kicking your own ass into sending more scouts, going harder on macro cycles, spending faster. I usually feel really good and really spent after pulling this one off.
Hope this helps. I hang out in Channels Jmove and TheSandbox with a lot of players who are better than me if you want practice games.
Thanks man. You put way too much effort into this. I actually played again today and managed to win 2 games, so I'm feeling much better about myself.
On July 10 2014 01:40 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I'm actually good at spending larva. My injects are what holds me back. I go into a big fight and then realize I cant reinforce because I haven't injected in a while. The more I think about it, scouting is my biggest problem. I need to know what my opponent is doing better. I've walked hydras/infestors into a wall of colossus before lol.
I can guarantee you that if you are below master league, scouting is not your biggest issue. I've already written what I found helpful when I was learning, so up to you what you want to focus on. I basically didn't scout until I hit master league in WoL, I just did one BO for each MU like 3 base max roach vs protoss and would run over people no matter what units they have. Of course sometimes I would lose to DTs / mass air or something. Not saying you shouldn't scout but I just want you to know that you can hit master without really knowing how to scout.
I prefer to know my opponent has. I tend to play passive/harrass style, so I need to know what's he's doing at least a little bit. I don't want to be getting roaches suddenly he has a bunch of immortals, you know?
Also, if any of you would be so kind, I uploaded a replay of one of my games today. Kind of wonder what are I should focus on the most. Don't laugh. http://drop.sc/384213
On July 09 2014 21:49 Karpfen wrote: Deathwing is really badly made at least considering horizontal spawns.
yes the real thirds are hilariously close. Tempests or colossus prevents you from ever getting a safe fourth base. Also the ramps make it impossible for roach hydra to make a good concave vs Colossus stalkers...
Now that I think about it, it's the worst map in the pool.
Protoss and terrans get a free 3rd, free 4th, and almost free 5th. Mech and bio are both very viable and if you get close spawn vs either race, may you rip (3 places for tanks to attack a base in complete safety). We can safely say the map creator is not a zerg player
On July 09 2014 09:06 Umuryum wrote: I think I need serious help.
I'm a diamond zerg player and i really struggle against protoss. Is there a way that I can improve myself agaisnt protoss? Because most of the times I even don't understand the reason why I lost.
A few months ago I was in exactly he same position as you. The worst part was that ZvP was -- and still is -- my favorite matchup by far, which made losing almost every ZvP even more frustrating to me. What I started doing was to begin befriending Protoss players that I meet on ladder, and practicing against them whenever possible. You'd be surprised at how many people are willing to be your practice partner if you have a good attitude and ask them for a rematch after a game. Now, ZvP is by far my best matchup.
The most important thing in ZvP is to know what your opponent is doing by 7:00 at the latest. By this time, regardless of whether you opened gasless 3 hatch or early ling speed, you should have at least 35-40 drones, 3 queens, and a few lings out on the map. (If you opened gasless -- which you always should vs FFE -- you can have 45+ drones by 7:00). This is an important benchmark. If you have less than this @ 7:00, you need to re-work your opening. If your overlord scout is completely denied and you don't manage to sneak any lings into his base, you need to put a spore at each base, otherwise an oracle or DT will ruin you.
You mentioned having trouble against immortal/gate all-ins. If this is the case, you need to know by 7:00 if they are going to all-in and cut drones by 7:30 at the latest. You want 50-55 drones max with 3-4 gas geysers. The easiest way to lose against immortal sentry all-in is to overdrone. You say you are desperate for something other than roach ling, but roach ling is by far the easiest way to hold all-ins that hit before 11:00 or so. Burrow is not necessary. If it's a delayed immortal all in, hydras make it easier to hold, but are not necessary either.
The most important aspects of holding these all-ins with roach ling (and hydra if applicable) are to (1)improve your injects and (2)not get supply blocked. The Protoss will have a max of 44 probes so you will have a definite economic edge. Your limiting factors won't be minerals or gas, but larvae and supply. If you run out of larvae while banking a bunch of resources, or end up floating a bunch of larvae (thereby preventing your hatches from spawning larvae automatically) you are more than likely going to lose.
One other important factor in holding immortal sentry all-ins with roach ling -- though not as important as injects/overlords -- is micro. You definitely don't want to a-move a big ball of roach/ling at a big ball of immortals and gateway units. Splitting your units and surrounding the Protoss ball is key and will allow you to trade much more efficiently. If you manage to trade evenly, there is no way a Protoss can win. More than likely, though, the Protoss will still trade more efficiently than you even if you get decent engagements. This shouldn't matter if you are good with your injects and avoiding supply blocks, as your 3 hatch economy with an 8-10 worker lead will allow you to overwhelm him eventually.
Loved the answer, will definately try to find some protoss practice partners.
The info is really good, and I will try to execute them as well as I can.
I believe that my problem is something fundamental and practice is the only solution to that.
Just dropping by to give my overall thoughts on the new maps, after a couple dozen games.
Basically, I feel vipers are the only solution to anything in the long run, and swarm hosts (or infestors?) the only decent options if you want to engage directly. Everything is a choke or a cliff (Catellena is open in center but every attack path hugs a cliff), so there's no opportunity for good flanks or surrounds, and thus there are no favorable engagements. I can't do anything aggressive due to the small defensive ramp areas, and I play roach-hydra in ZvT, roach-hydra in ZvP, and pure roach ZvZ--that is, I normally rely on having a powerful midgame timing, or at least the threat of one. On the new maps, the only thing I can do without vipers/infestors is sit back and macro, and maybe backstab if he moves out. Either way, direct fights are out of the question. Seriously, a sustained gateway all-in will probably kill you on these maps. Maybe muta players are having a better time in non-mirrors, but I doubt it, the chokes are surely bad for ling-bane play, too.
So yeah I am ditching roach-hydra play, and leaning towards faster/heavier tech builds now (in non-ZvZ). These new maps favor unit density (i.e., expensive and higher tech units), and obviously roaches, at least, do not pass muster. Honestly, I think it's time for swarm hosts and only swarm hosts, it's our only real option for fighting along narrow attack paths. Or, I'll just beeline to vipers every game.
tl;dr I think the new maps call for new approaches, and zerg play probably needs to shift towards protoss playearlier tech, and higher tech units, to handle the cramped maps.
On July 10 2014 10:02 6xFPCs wrote: Just dropping by to give my overall thoughts on the new maps, after a couple dozen games.
Basically, I feel vipers are the only solution to anything in the long run, and swarm hosts (or infestors?) the only decent options if you want to engage directly. Everything is a choke or a cliff (Catellena is open in center but every attack path hugs a cliff), so there's no opportunity for good flanks or surrounds, and thus there are no favorable engagements. I can't do anything aggressive due to the small defensive ramp areas, and I play roach-hydra in ZvT, roach-hydra in ZvP, and pure roach ZvZ--that is, I normally rely on having a powerful midgame timing, or at least the threat of one. On the new maps, the only thing I can do without vipers/infestors is sit back and macro, and maybe backstab if he moves out. Either way, direct fights are out of the question. Seriously, a sustained gateway all-in will probably kill you on these maps. Maybe muta players are having a better time in non-mirrors, but I doubt it, the chokes are surely bad for ling-bane play, too.
So yeah I am ditching roach-hydra play, and leaning towards faster/heavier tech builds now (in non-ZvZ). These new maps favor unit density (i.e., expensive and higher tech units), and obviously roaches, at least, do not pass muster. Honestly, I think it's time for swarm hosts and only swarm hosts, it's our only real option for fighting along narrow attack paths. Or, I'll just beeline to vipers every game.
tl;dr I think the new maps call for new approaches, and zerg play probably needs to shift towards protoss playearlier tech, and higher tech units, to handle the cramped maps.
I helped write the team liquid preview of the new maps, and so i've had more of a chance to play on them then some other players here. I'll break down my thoughts on the two more polarizing maps:
Foxtrot: Relatively little experience as even players from other races during our preview session mostly eschewed this map, citing wide naturals or closed engagement spaces as detrimental to their game plan. I've played every match up on the map, but only played TvZ with any thing close to a decent number of games on this map. Ling Bling Muta still works on the map, it just requires a heavier emphasis on surrounding and counter attacks. On this map especially, due to small and confined nature of the map, it is incredibly important to prioritize setting up your engagement as flawlessly as possible. I found that if I ever tried to flank from > 2 angles my opponent would retreat up the ramp and camp there with his bio surrounded by hellbat/rauder/mine on the outside, forcing unfavorable trades (until maxxed at any rate). Thus, in order for me to actually get engagements I had to prevent him from doing this.
There doesn't seem to be a good way to keep him from retreating up into his choke positions barring infestors, which I wouldn't have for quite a while, so I needed to keep him busy while I was setting up my engagement and then hit him while he's distracted. I did this through counter attacks leading up to the engagement itself - a ling run bye into the 3rd, ling/bane into the naturel wall and mineral line would disrupt his focus and allow me to engage properly. I think this is key to getting wins on this map at all, as otherwise a competent terran player will be able to take his engagement however he likes.
Some general notes, --Mines are great on this map for zoning, as each pathway is relatively small --similarly burrowed banes are great, but expect scans once you show your hand --no fucking way would i go swarm host on this map, as it would be hilariously easy to counter attack me through one of the other myriad of attack paths --if i were to play protoss on the map (and again i didn't get much chance to) and I didn't do a timing against their more open natural I would be terrified of forcefield based timings (SoulTrain you motherfucker). Even blink timings with sentries would be devastating. --Gold base can be used for silly hilarious cheese in some positions. --ZvZ roach wars are kind of fun because you can hold chokes against HUGE numbers of roaches with a bare minimum of investment. Cloud Kingdom :3
Deadwing: Super fucking good for Other Races in General. The ability to take a super easy 3rd either immediately or after. Honestly its probably a map I would veto if I worried about my win percentage on ladder. In TvZ 2base timings can get their 3rd base incredible fast after production and still remain safe, in PvZ there's a myriad of timings protoss can do and then get their 3rd basically risk free. Its super frustrating. In PvZ at least roach drop play out of a roach max could be done to some efficacy, but that's easy to counter once scouted.
--Incredibly easy for every to take expansions, and I hate it :\ Terrans and protoss on 4+ bases is terrifying. --Large open spaces allow for good engagements typically, but punishing the opponent's 4th base (which most match ups pivot on) is tough. --Here I think passive swarm host/viper/etc play is probably best in most match ups. Even that is tough since the map is so large and your swarm hosts can be caught out of position but vP and vMech that's definitely my first choice. vs Bio in tvz I have less experience on this map as most terranes favor some sort of mech play with the plethora of available bases, but I'd imagine that it plays out similarly to other maps until the 15 minute mark, and once the bio player has their 4th it gets very hard to deal with. Good map vision with overlords and lings are key, and creep spread is an absolute must have.
TLDR: Maps are affecting my gameplay which is a good thing (thats like the whole point) but the meta is definitely not fleshed out on the new maps. Deadwing in particular is giving me much more grief as a Zerg player due to the relative safety of my opponent's expansion and I haven't come up with a way of punishing/reacting safely to them.
Hey all, trying to get back into SC2 after a long break, wondering what the current safe opening builds are like for Zergs? I haven't played in the better part of a year so I'm a bit out of it.
On July 10 2014 13:15 Requizen wrote: Hey all, trying to get back into SC2 after a long break, wondering what the current safe opening builds are like for Zergs? I haven't played in the better part of a year so I'm a bit out of it.
ZvT
Hyun's 1/1
Especially good vs early Hellbats
ZvZ
Gasless into Roach
This map pool isn't as safe for this but there are pros who will gasless on any map.
ZvP
Stephano's fast max vs forge first or expansion first.
hey guys im just wondering whats the standard safe opening in ZvT these days after the hellbat patch? should i open gaseless into roaches or is it safe to just play standard with an earlier bane nest? im just wondering because iv not really got comfortable with opening roach but i just die if i dont it seems :L
Most people seem to be either getting bane nest before +1/+1 or getting a roach warren around 6 minutes.
Me personally? I got tired of dealing with all the hellbat shenanigans and started doing a 7:30 roach/ling allin almost every ZvT. I kinda hate myself for it, but early game ZvT is just too annoying right now.
Sorry to rant on here. I know this is not the place. My game just needs a lot of help, that's all. And I kind of have a shit attitude about it all. Sorry
Again, sorry guys for being so sour in this thread. I struggle with loss, always have and it was very inappropriate to bitch to you guys about it.
IMO, you don't need to apologize. This is a help me thread - we're here to help! "So I tried again to ladder because I love to make myself depressed" made me LOL (with you and not at you of course ).
One thing that helps me is trying to gage my mind state before I play. If it's been a while (I get rusty after only 3 days off), I do something less stressful for a few nights in a row to get back into it. Day9 recomends 4v4. I also like unranked, build order drills, 1v1 obs games, & arcade. If I notice that I get frustrated and feel slow no matter what I do, I take a few hours off or the whole night off, and try to come back to it later with enough sleep & enough food in my belly.
Then when I feel like laddering but I'm still rusty I try some allins and cheeses, simply because a narrower focus than a macro game is better warm up than going right into a ladder game with a macro style. That one's debatable but it works for me occasionally.
SC2John has a great post from months ago about planning a strategy before going into a game - I'd check that out http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/433514-sc2-notes-how-to-plan-a-strategy . Given that, I sometimes say to myself before the game "I'm gonna work on constantly staying in motion and rely on the pre-game plan, my build order and my experience to use that constant motion to win". This one's hard - I usually have some success for the first 5 minutes, then I slow down. Another one is to say "I'm going to try to stay completely calm, and be completely focused on executing the build and sticking to the plan, and if I keep the emotions out of it as much as possible it will free up my brain to execute." Also really tough, but I wonder if pro players can get to this level.
You've probably heard all that shit before, so here's one that I recently discovered after watching this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcGyVTAoXEU Try using the Tilt to your advantage. Channel the anger into moving faster, kicking your own ass into sending more scouts, going harder on macro cycles, spending faster. I usually feel really good and really spent after pulling this one off.
Hope this helps. I hang out in Channels Jmove and TheSandbox with a lot of players who are better than me if you want practice games.
Thanks man. You put way too much effort into this. I actually played again today and managed to win 2 games, so I'm feeling much better about myself.
On July 10 2014 01:40 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I'm actually good at spending larva. My injects are what holds me back. I go into a big fight and then realize I cant reinforce because I haven't injected in a while. The more I think about it, scouting is my biggest problem. I need to know what my opponent is doing better. I've walked hydras/infestors into a wall of colossus before lol.
I can guarantee you that if you are below master league, scouting is not your biggest issue. I've already written what I found helpful when I was learning, so up to you what you want to focus on. I basically didn't scout until I hit master league in WoL, I just did one BO for each MU like 3 base max roach vs protoss and would run over people no matter what units they have. Of course sometimes I would lose to DTs / mass air or something. Not saying you shouldn't scout but I just want you to know that you can hit master without really knowing how to scout.
I prefer to know my opponent has. I tend to play passive/harrass style, so I need to know what's he's doing at least a little bit. I don't want to be getting roaches suddenly he has a bunch of immortals, you know?
Also, if any of you would be so kind, I uploaded a replay of one of my games today. Kind of wonder what are I should focus on the most. Don't laugh. http://drop.sc/384213
No problem.The effort is no big deal, esp if someone else reads that and gets a benefit. If you try anything specific that I said and it works (or doesn't), let us know.
Sorry to rant on here. I know this is not the place. My game just needs a lot of help, that's all. And I kind of have a shit attitude about it all. Sorry
Again, sorry guys for being so sour in this thread. I struggle with loss, always have and it was very inappropriate to bitch to you guys about it.
IMO, you don't need to apologize. This is a help me thread - we're here to help! "So I tried again to ladder because I love to make myself depressed" made me LOL (with you and not at you of course ).
One thing that helps me is trying to gage my mind state before I play. If it's been a while (I get rusty after only 3 days off), I do something less stressful for a few nights in a row to get back into it. Day9 recomends 4v4. I also like unranked, build order drills, 1v1 obs games, & arcade. If I notice that I get frustrated and feel slow no matter what I do, I take a few hours off or the whole night off, and try to come back to it later with enough sleep & enough food in my belly.
Then when I feel like laddering but I'm still rusty I try some allins and cheeses, simply because a narrower focus than a macro game is better warm up than going right into a ladder game with a macro style. That one's debatable but it works for me occasionally.
SC2John has a great post from months ago about planning a strategy before going into a game - I'd check that out http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/433514-sc2-notes-how-to-plan-a-strategy . Given that, I sometimes say to myself before the game "I'm gonna work on constantly staying in motion and rely on the pre-game plan, my build order and my experience to use that constant motion to win". This one's hard - I usually have some success for the first 5 minutes, then I slow down. Another one is to say "I'm going to try to stay completely calm, and be completely focused on executing the build and sticking to the plan, and if I keep the emotions out of it as much as possible it will free up my brain to execute." Also really tough, but I wonder if pro players can get to this level.
You've probably heard all that shit before, so here's one that I recently discovered after watching this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcGyVTAoXEU Try using the Tilt to your advantage. Channel the anger into moving faster, kicking your own ass into sending more scouts, going harder on macro cycles, spending faster. I usually feel really good and really spent after pulling this one off.
Hope this helps. I hang out in Channels Jmove and TheSandbox with a lot of players who are better than me if you want practice games.
Thanks man. You put way too much effort into this. I actually played again today and managed to win 2 games, so I'm feeling much better about myself.
On July 10 2014 07:15 Zheryn wrote:
On July 10 2014 01:40 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I'm actually good at spending larva. My injects are what holds me back. I go into a big fight and then realize I cant reinforce because I haven't injected in a while. The more I think about it, scouting is my biggest problem. I need to know what my opponent is doing better. I've walked hydras/infestors into a wall of colossus before lol.
I can guarantee you that if you are below master league, scouting is not your biggest issue. I've already written what I found helpful when I was learning, so up to you what you want to focus on. I basically didn't scout until I hit master league in WoL, I just did one BO for each MU like 3 base max roach vs protoss and would run over people no matter what units they have. Of course sometimes I would lose to DTs / mass air or something. Not saying you shouldn't scout but I just want you to know that you can hit master without really knowing how to scout.
I prefer to know my opponent has. I tend to play passive/harrass style, so I need to know what's he's doing at least a little bit. I don't want to be getting roaches suddenly he has a bunch of immortals, you know?
Also, if any of you would be so kind, I uploaded a replay of one of my games today. Kind of wonder what are I should focus on the most. Don't laugh. http://drop.sc/384213
No problem.The effort is no big deal, esp if someone else reads that and gets a benefit. If you try anything specific that I said and it works (or doesn't), let us know.
I'm just trying to take it less seriously. As long as I play more I'll get better. I lost 4 more games but then finally one the 5th and that felt awesome.
Sorry to rant on here. I know this is not the place. My game just needs a lot of help, that's all. And I kind of have a shit attitude about it all. Sorry
Again, sorry guys for being so sour in this thread. I struggle with loss, always have and it was very inappropriate to bitch to you guys about it.
IMO, you don't need to apologize. This is a help me thread - we're here to help! "So I tried again to ladder because I love to make myself depressed" made me LOL (with you and not at you of course ).
One thing that helps me is trying to gage my mind state before I play. If it's been a while (I get rusty after only 3 days off), I do something less stressful for a few nights in a row to get back into it. Day9 recomends 4v4. I also like unranked, build order drills, 1v1 obs games, & arcade. If I notice that I get frustrated and feel slow no matter what I do, I take a few hours off or the whole night off, and try to come back to it later with enough sleep & enough food in my belly.
Then when I feel like laddering but I'm still rusty I try some allins and cheeses, simply because a narrower focus than a macro game is better warm up than going right into a ladder game with a macro style. That one's debatable but it works for me occasionally.
SC2John has a great post from months ago about planning a strategy before going into a game - I'd check that out http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/433514-sc2-notes-how-to-plan-a-strategy . Given that, I sometimes say to myself before the game "I'm gonna work on constantly staying in motion and rely on the pre-game plan, my build order and my experience to use that constant motion to win". This one's hard - I usually have some success for the first 5 minutes, then I slow down. Another one is to say "I'm going to try to stay completely calm, and be completely focused on executing the build and sticking to the plan, and if I keep the emotions out of it as much as possible it will free up my brain to execute." Also really tough, but I wonder if pro players can get to this level.
You've probably heard all that shit before, so here's one that I recently discovered after watching this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcGyVTAoXEU Try using the Tilt to your advantage. Channel the anger into moving faster, kicking your own ass into sending more scouts, going harder on macro cycles, spending faster. I usually feel really good and really spent after pulling this one off.
Hope this helps. I hang out in Channels Jmove and TheSandbox with a lot of players who are better than me if you want practice games.
Thanks man. You put way too much effort into this. I actually played again today and managed to win 2 games, so I'm feeling much better about myself.
On July 10 2014 07:15 Zheryn wrote:
On July 10 2014 01:40 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I'm actually good at spending larva. My injects are what holds me back. I go into a big fight and then realize I cant reinforce because I haven't injected in a while. The more I think about it, scouting is my biggest problem. I need to know what my opponent is doing better. I've walked hydras/infestors into a wall of colossus before lol.
I can guarantee you that if you are below master league, scouting is not your biggest issue. I've already written what I found helpful when I was learning, so up to you what you want to focus on. I basically didn't scout until I hit master league in WoL, I just did one BO for each MU like 3 base max roach vs protoss and would run over people no matter what units they have. Of course sometimes I would lose to DTs / mass air or something. Not saying you shouldn't scout but I just want you to know that you can hit master without really knowing how to scout.
I prefer to know my opponent has. I tend to play passive/harrass style, so I need to know what's he's doing at least a little bit. I don't want to be getting roaches suddenly he has a bunch of immortals, you know?
Also, if any of you would be so kind, I uploaded a replay of one of my games today. Kind of wonder what are I should focus on the most. Don't laugh. http://drop.sc/384213
No problem.The effort is no big deal, esp if someone else reads that and gets a benefit. If you try anything specific that I said and it works (or doesn't), let us know.
I'm just trying to take it less seriously. As long as I play more I'll get better. I lost 4 more games but then finally one the 5th and that felt awesome.
Much better attitude. About twelve months ago I went through the same thing, I watched a day9 daily (no idea which one anymore) in which he spoke about picking one or two things to work on and focusing on that. I picked injects and overlords and decided that my 'win' format would be based off of that. If my queens had a high number of injects missing at the end of the game and I missed overlords I lost; regardless of whether I won the game or not. After playing each match I would watch the replay and decide whether I won or not. After 6 odd games I stopped caring about whether I won and was more concerned if I hit my injects and overlords on time. It turned into a great way to enjoy playing with out the stress of the outcome of the match. As time goes on you just change the barometer of what winning means to fit your situation.
On July 11 2014 00:56 Kestnuts wrote: Most people seem to be either getting bane nest before +1/+1 or getting a roach warren around 6 minutes.
Me personally? I got tired of dealing with all the hellbat shenanigans and started doing a 7:30 roach/ling allin almost every ZvT. I kinda hate myself for it, but early game ZvT is just too annoying right now.
I already had enough trouble surviving early game while I try to drone up my third. This patch didn't make it any better. 20% win rate in ZvT this season =) I'm just going to start doing some kind of 2 base push as well and grab a third behind it instead. It's such a pain in the ass to try and play defensively and scout perfectly and never let any hellions by or or you miss an armory and they transform hellions while you have no roaches out = gg.
On July 11 2014 00:56 Kestnuts wrote: Most people seem to be either getting bane nest before +1/+1 or getting a roach warren around 6 minutes.
Me personally? I got tired of dealing with all the hellbat shenanigans and started doing a 7:30 roach/ling allin almost every ZvT. I kinda hate myself for it, but early game ZvT is just too annoying right now.
I already had enough trouble surviving early game while I try to drone up my third. This patch didn't make it any better. 20% win rate in ZvT this season =) I'm just going to start doing some kind of 2 base push as well and grab a third behind it instead. It's such a pain in the ass to try and play defensively and scout perfectly and never let any hellions by or or you miss an armory and they transform hellions while you have no roaches out = gg.
On July 11 2014 00:56 Kestnuts wrote: Most people seem to be either getting bane nest before +1/+1 or getting a roach warren around 6 minutes.
Me personally? I got tired of dealing with all the hellbat shenanigans and started doing a 7:30 roach/ling allin almost every ZvT. I kinda hate myself for it, but early game ZvT is just too annoying right now.
I already had enough trouble surviving early game while I try to drone up my third. This patch didn't make it any better. 20% win rate in ZvT this season =) I'm just going to start doing some kind of 2 base push as well and grab a third behind it instead. It's such a pain in the ass to try and play defensively and scout perfectly and never let any hellions by or or you miss an armory and they transform hellions while you have no roaches out = gg.
On July 11 2014 00:56 Kestnuts wrote: Most people seem to be either getting bane nest before +1/+1 or getting a roach warren around 6 minutes.
Me personally? I got tired of dealing with all the hellbat shenanigans and started doing a 7:30 roach/ling allin almost every ZvT. I kinda hate myself for it, but early game ZvT is just too annoying right now.
I already had enough trouble surviving early game while I try to drone up my third. This patch didn't make it any better. 20% win rate in ZvT this season =) I'm just going to start doing some kind of 2 base push as well and grab a third behind it instead. It's such a pain in the ass to try and play defensively and scout perfectly and never let any hellions by or or you miss an armory and they transform hellions while you have no roaches out = gg.
Best build. Blind counter against hellbat plays. Just do it.
This cannot be emphasized enough, learn this build.
Thanks. Watched it a few hours ago actually. Only got to try it once so far. He had bunkers and tanks for defense while he killed me with a dropship when I was out on the map ^^ How do you deal with drops?
It's freaking hard to get in to master now. Been top 10 diamond EU out of 5k ppl in diamond for a while now, not getting that promote :D
I just played a game where i had around 17 hydras and like 20 roaches versus around 20 zealots and around 8 skillrays and i got absolutely demolished even though i had the roaches in the front and the hydras in the back and 2/2 upgrades versus 1/1 air and 1/2 toss what do I do? Build different units? Just accept my fate and succumb to the skillrays?
Hello @all! Until today i send my first overlord to the enemy base and my second to my natural because of cannon rush, or bunkers and so on. Now i realised that i need to send my second overlord straight to the enemy base too (because of scouting) and just send a drone down to check for something fishy. My question is: Are there some specifics timings when i need to sent down my drone (like 3.00 or something)?
Thanks. Watched it a few hours ago actually. Only got to try it once so far. He had bunkers and tanks for defense while he killed me with a dropship when I was out on the map ^^ How do you deal with drops?
It's freaking hard to get in to master now. Been top 10 diamond EU out of 5k ppl in diamond for a while now, not getting that promote :D
If you watch some of Hyun's more recent games he does some beautiful spore placement on different maps. (He did this build 3 times in a row in one tourney but I can't remember who it was against or what tourney it was in...I feel like the pool was Frost, Overgrowth and Merrygo Round?)
Also, since the medivacs drops tend to hit right at 10 minutes, just before you push out, it's not bad to keep a handful of roaches at your main and third until you push out.
Then just the basic overlord spread, queen focusing medivacs, good drone pulling.
On July 11 2014 23:18 Varroth wrote: I just played a game where i had around 17 hydras and like 20 roaches versus around 20 zealots and around 8 skillrays and i got absolutely demolished even though i had the roaches in the front and the hydras in the back and 2/2 upgrades versus 1/1 air and 1/2 toss what do I do? Build different units? Just accept my fate and succumb to the skillrays?
Definitely post a replay, there isn't enough data in the post for us to tell you what happened. Big things come to mind are engagement arcs and not focusing the VR with hydras, so they just hit the zealots.
On July 12 2014 03:39 AFSpeeDy wrote: Hello @all! Until today i send my first overlord to the enemy base and my second to my natural because of cannon rush, or bunkers and so on. Now i realised that i need to send my second overlord straight to the enemy base too (because of scouting) and just send a drone down to check for something fishy. My question is: Are there some specifics timings when i need to sent down my drone (like 3.00 or something)?
Heya! You DO need to send you second overlord out - if you're worried about cannon rush you can send a drone down around when your pool starts, but basically you're taking a risk when you hatch first vs protoss blind and if you want to play truly safe just 15pool.