in the first game, you moved out when he took bases 5 and 6, and you were on 4. I think you overextended after killing one of the hatchery's and to me it seems like falling back and cleaning up as much creep as you can would be the best call. From then on you lose the momentum that mech has when your army is stronger. Zerg can simply just produce faster than you so its easy to get overwhelmed. For the rest of the game he is able to set up his engagements by using the vision from towers and creep, while you don't know where his vipers are, and thus your vikings are not able to prevent him from dropping the cloud on your tanks. Personally I like to take a 5th base as well as start working on an orbital farm. Hellion runbys with the optional transform while in mineral line, with simultaneous hellbat drops can do just as much economical damage or more than trading lots of tanks for lots of roach hydra and a hatch. Killing roaches and hydras doesn't help you if you are forced back and have to reproduce your tanks anyways. Its almost necessary once both army's reach a critical mass and a single poor engagement is gg for either player, to have at least 10 OC's do constantly drop scans to know where his army is and use 4-6 hellions to kill tumors.
He was able to position well with great concaves and use the vipers to flank in to drop clouds. It may be possible to try some flanking maneuvers with mines if you are not having to constantly build tanks because you can keep them alive. It might force him to try to take an air battle with you if you keep killing overseers and prevent the vipers from ever getting close to you.
I think mass scans/vision as well as denying zerg vision is the thing that can help you most.
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You didn't open blue flame in either game. Why did you mention it? At least with blue flame you would be active and do some damage.
Game 1: -You had to play the map, PLAY THE MAP -Early Reaper control was pretty poor. 3 Reapers is a commitment, make it work for you. You could've done a LOT of damage if you really tried. -You need to have a plan, a play. You pushed out just cause he poked you and you could push him back at the moment. Then you kept pushing and lost your entire army. -More CCs. Please. -Outplayed by the Viper flank -He doesn't really get a fast 2/2... It's pretty normal timing.
Game 2: -You could definitely set up a better position. You're playing the map better, but again, you don't seem to have a solid plan. -It'd be nice to not suicide a Reaper for a single Drone. -You can totally be aggressive with Reapers and Hellions until Roaches are halfway across the map or Lings are at your natural.
Things you need to focus on: 1) Are you going to play turtle mech, or a timing-focused mech? 2) You should be more active with your mobile forces. This means not losing Reapers, and still poking out with them incessantly to see what's going on. This is especially critical if you choose to move towards a Banshee opener, because keeping them alive throughout the game helps IMMENSELY when dealing with Swarmhosts (do you know how amazing it is when you have 3 Banshees picking off Swarmhosts when the Zerg rushed them? It's amazing). 3) Midgame scouting would be nice. I know it's nearly impossible to get your Reapers to scout their tech on Habitation Station, but it is totally possible on Yeonsu to scout their tech. You could've taken a lot of damage (and got contained) by Mutas that game. If you open Hellion/Banshee, your Banshees can usually scout the main for you, and will give you a heads up of if they're going Spire or not (this is one of the biggest things you should look for when going mech, because it is the single most annoying thing you'll have to deal with).
General outlines that I use for my games (timing-based mech): -Hellion/Banshee every game (cause it's what I practiced and am most comfortable with, you can use your Hellion/Tank turtle style if you figure out when you should Scan/suicide Reapers for their midgame tech, which is like a bit past the 9 minute mark) -2 blind Thors after 2 Siege Tanks (even if they don't go Spire, it's still a good unit). -3 Tank, double Hellbat production on 3 and 4 Bases, 4 Tank production on 5 bases, rest of my Minerals on CCs and Turrets (you can keep double Hellbat production if you want, INnoVation does, Flash doesn't, which is why Flash skips blue flame). -Push out at 2/2 (which is about 15:30 for me) versus Swarmhosts and Roach/Hydra, push out with 4 (or 6? don't remember) Thors versus Mutas. -On 5 base, start adding a few Starports for Banshees and/or Ravens and start producing 4 Tanks at a time
On Yeonsu, after you denied 2 bases, you should've sat on your position and went to 5 bases (you could easily secure it). The reasoning for this is that there is no way in hell that the Zerg should have either of the forward side bases or the high ground third. They're too close to you and wayyyyyyyyy too easy to shut down (the forward third is just horrible to defend against Siege Tanks). The result is a slow, gas-trading game with you on 5 bases versus their 4. Terran was already more gas efficient when a base down, so the Zerg is forced to make a play to have a chance at winning. Their 2 options are take 2 bases down or start 2 bases. They obviously can't take 2 bases, cause you can shut those down instantly. They might be able to deny 1 base, but that still leaves you at an advantage, and would cost them a fair portion of their army as well. And with your 5 bases, you can go into Sky Terran (Ravens Vikings Battlecruiser) and become even MORE gas efficient. Attacking into their low ground third (when you're already in a good position economically), put your army into a forward line formation when they had 3 places to flank from. With Blinding Clouds on top of it, it creates the worst position you can attack into.
On Habitation Station, you just really needed to solidify your position with Turrets and an extra PF. You went double Reactors, which would've been okay if you had another Factory for Tanks going, but you didn't. So you're producing 2 Tanks at a time, and 4 Hellbats at a time. If anything, Widow Mines would be better, since they still work under Blinding Cloud. And those extra minerals could've been an earlier 2nd PF with Turrets to protect your Tanks from Blinding Clouds. A line of Tanks behind Turrets and PFs is REALLY hard to break cost efficiently. From there, you slowly move out to take your 4th and 5th bases, and do the slow gas trade dance with Zerg, and win by starving them out. They already maxed out on Roach/Hydra so they've wasted a lot of resources into units that are useless, making the late game look that much worse for them.
Mech is all about keeping the units alive until you go for the air transition. Then you slowly trade your units away (and suicide SCVs, since 10 MULEs can mine minerals for you).
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Thanks for the hindsight. When I said I'd open BF, that's was my plan but since he decides to fast roach both game I just change my plan and make tanks quite fast instead.
But I do have a plan when I play in TvZ, I have around 70% wr right now. My goal is to pressure early with heavy hellion ball, then once I got enough tanks, I hit timing and window that I think would work. I don't think I lost a single game this season against SH/Muta for instance. It's just that against Roach Hydra, I have the feeling that I would crush his army easily, and I have to or he'll outmacro me afterward. You are right, on Yeonsu I did overextend but I wasn't behind afterward, it was even imho. But I could really mass OC because my lack of ressources. The second game was just constant pressure from him, and I doubt a PF would have help since Blinding Cloud nullify it. As you said, I might try heavy mines composition instead of hellbats.
Thank you again!
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