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On September 03 2014 04:21 Damien wrote: Thank you KOtical. But don´t u think that if u play so defensively, zerg will overwhelming you by numbers?
KOtical's build is to counter early roach timings.
Zerg Diamond player here. One thing you need to do in the early game is to scout. See what he is doing. If he got one or two gas early (usually one before third), then you should think why is he getting gas so early and what will he spent on. For zerg early game, this comes down to speedling, roach, or some sort of bangling bust. For roach and/or bangling bust, you need to get those tanks out asap.
If you scout and you see he hasn't taken any gas, then most likely he ain't doing any early timings. Then you can delay on building tanks and save the gas for marine upgrades....
This is why reaper first is really effective, you get to scout and harrass and see what he is doing.
I hope this helps!
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On September 03 2014 04:21 Damien wrote: Thank you KOtical. But don´t u think that if u play so defensively, zerg will overwhelming you by numbers?
You must attack ASAP, so thanks delay ur attack and ur medivacs, or am I wrong?
well its not a defensive build by any means... u only stay def if u see that zerg hasnt taken his 3rd... otherwise u attack his 3rd with 2 tanks (as soon as 2nd tank pops out ~ 8:00) + all ur marnies... usually zergs dont hold that attack off coz it comes early, when they have either some roaches (2-8), some lings, a ling bane mix or nothing but drones and queens... if they take an early third its most likely they wanna make an economic opening, therefor they wont have much units...
u stay back and do nothing when zorg doesnt take his 3rd. because then he will most likely attack u soon anyways... if he takes his 3rd really late, then if u use my build ur ahead anyways because u got ur 3rd cc already...
so u can play the build either defensive or aggresive...
and u dont need medivacs to kill things ... i could send u some replays but im not at home right now
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On October 21 2014 16:58 KOtical wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2014 04:21 Damien wrote: Thank you KOtical. But don´t u think that if u play so defensively, zerg will overwhelming you by numbers?
You must attack ASAP, so thanks delay ur attack and ur medivacs, or am I wrong? well its not a defensive build by any means... u only stay def if u see that zerg hasnt taken his 3rd... otherwise u attack his 3rd with 2 tanks (as soon as 2nd tank pops out ~ 8:00) + all ur marnies... usually zergs dont hold that attack off coz it comes early, when they have either some roaches (2-8), some lings, a ling bane mix or nothing but drones and queens... if they take an early third its most likely they wanna make an economic opening, therefor they wont have much units... u stay back and do nothing when zorg doesnt take his 3rd. because then he will most likely attack u soon anyways... if he takes his 3rd really late, then if u use my build ur ahead anyways because u got ur 3rd cc already... so u can play the build either defensive or aggresive... and u dont need medivacs to kill things ... i could send u some replays but im not at home right now
What exactly do u have at 8:00 when u move out seeing the zerg is not gonna attack u any time soon? I mean zergs at that level let lings on the path to their base to detect early pushes. If I have stimless marines and 2 tanks, tbh I cant see this work too often. But feel free to convince me.
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Hi Damien, I feel the same way about the passive vs aggressive as you do. If youre too passive they just get to 80 drones and 4 hatches with ease and can power units and theyll have the creep spread by that point to almost never let you back in the game. I generally never have trouble with roach timings (Also Diamond league). Even vs a 1/1 roach timing, Ive very rarely needed tanks or mass bunkers to hold opening 3cc reaper hellion.
Solid macro and doing a solid build order should allow you to get enough units out to hold these kinds of pushes. Once you identify roaches with your hellions, start adding in some marauders and continue as normal. Getting supply blocked before 100 supply will very heavily effect your macro (even if it doesnt seem/feel like it) and you will fail to hold pushes you should be able to with constant depots, workers, MULES, and MAINLY ARMY PRODUCTION. Your racks should always be pumping units out when stim is on the way.
tl; dr; Roach pushes at this level can be held with macro alone.
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On October 23 2014 19:49 Phaenoman wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2014 16:58 KOtical wrote:On September 03 2014 04:21 Damien wrote: Thank you KOtical. But don´t u think that if u play so defensively, zerg will overwhelming you by numbers?
You must attack ASAP, so thanks delay ur attack and ur medivacs, or am I wrong? well its not a defensive build by any means... u only stay def if u see that zerg hasnt taken his 3rd... otherwise u attack his 3rd with 2 tanks (as soon as 2nd tank pops out ~ 8:00) + all ur marnies... usually zergs dont hold that attack off coz it comes early, when they have either some roaches (2-8), some lings, a ling bane mix or nothing but drones and queens... if they take an early third its most likely they wanna make an economic opening, therefor they wont have much units... u stay back and do nothing when zorg doesnt take his 3rd. because then he will most likely attack u soon anyways... if he takes his 3rd really late, then if u use my build ur ahead anyways because u got ur 3rd cc already... so u can play the build either defensive or aggresive... and u dont need medivacs to kill things ... i could send u some replays but im not at home right now What exactly do u have at 8:00 when u move out seeing the zerg is not gonna attack u any time soon? I mean zergs at that level let lings on the path to their base to detect early pushes. If I have stimless marines and 2 tanks, tbh I cant see this work too often. But feel free to convince me.
well if he has solo zerglings around the map u can get those with small marine pokes in the beginning... i hit alot of zergs with that attack, coz i feel like either zerg goes for an aggresive opening himself (roach attack etc.) mostly out of 2 bases or either they take the greedy 3 base build in wich case he has not alot of units... at around 8-8:30 i got 2 tanks and around 20+ marines, and my 3rd cc on the way... i dont need to kill him around that time but if he got 3 base u need to kill of at the 3rd base... after that u can either retreat back home and do the transition into bio mine medivacs + upgrades or try to slowly siege his 2nd and rally ur units to the sieg position (2nd option is kinda risky coz 2 base mutas can still come out and harass u after ur attack on the third) i either have 2 szenarios around the 8 min mark: 3 base zerg with little units (some zerglings and some banes) (solution target banes with tanks) 2 base zerg with alot of units (mostly roaches then) (no need to attack just macro up) have to say it depends alot on the map also... in some maps u cant get unseen to where his 3rd base is. if zergs see u goin to his 3rd he will pump units...
if this build is to passive for you u can also get 2nd gas and add a 2nd factory, switch the 2nd factory asap to the reactor from the barracks and build hellions + upgrade blue flame. with this build u have bf-hellions, marines + 2 tanks around 9 mins and try to kill zerg then... u dont build the third and its kinda all in from that point...
but well all those build seems to change soon anyways... lotv incoming...
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