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Hello everyone, this is my first time here (I think), and I some troubles playing terran. I used to be master zerg player playing about 4 months, I learnt zerg very quickly, but zerg is not my favorite race, I have no fun as I have playing terran. So I decided to play Terran and then I am getting crushed so many times, even against low ranks. I am High Plat as terran and I have some questions that can may help me.
My worst match up is TvT. TvZ and TvP its even.
1 -TVT - When I play TvT, games take so long cause I don't know how to finish it. Most of the time I am ahead on supply and upgrade, but I lose cause I don't know how to kill them, mainly when they has alot of tanks with vikings, so I can't attack and my late game sux, they start making reaven and battlecruisers and then I always lose. I wanna know what should I do to kill Sieged tanks, and what should I do against Raven/Viking/Battlecruisers, how to engage it.
2 -TVZ - I was reading on TeamLiquid about holding early agressions from zerg, but I still have some troubles. What should I do when they make roach/sling/bling all-in at 8:30 ~ 9:30 minutes? I mean, how can I figure out that there is a all-in coming, and when I find out, what should I do?
3 - TVP - I have alot of trouble with oracles, so I am making a early engineering bay and turrets on my mineral line, but when there is no oracle, I get behind, it delays my push. (I can get 100 supply at 10:20 without turrets, and with turrets I can get only 80 ~ 85 supply). So, what should I look at his base to figure out there is a proxy stargate? I know that I should look for pylons, 3 pylons, but sometimes they have 3 pylons and still a proxy stargate, and then I get crushed anyway.
4 - My last question is, how to fight as a terran player. I mean, versus zerg I should pre-split my army, but how should I engage playing TvT and TvP.
TL;DR 1 - How to kill sieged tanks and raven/viking/battlecruisers? 2 - How to figure out a early pressure, all-in or rush from a zerg playe? 3 - What should I look at protoss base when I am scouting beyond the pylons? 4 - How to engage on TvT and TvP?
Sorry about my english, I don't speak americano! XD
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Canada11355 Posts
Read this thread and post anything you don't see answered as a question. It has a better chance to be answered. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/402751-the-hots-terran-help-me-thread
2 and 3 are answered in that thread already Q. What do you look for with your first SCV scout, in terms of gas timings?
+ Show Spoiler +Ver wrote: You can really never know for sure if they are going speedling allin, speedling expo, ling/bane allin, roach timing, roach/ling allin, or roach/bane/ling. All you can really do note what is possible from the gas timing. i,e, if they get gas around when pool finishes, it will be something 7 mins +, while if they go gas pool, you have to account for a 1 or 0 queen 550 baneling bust or 630 40 ling runby. Another possibility, map dependent, is leave an scv in front of their ramp so you can have advance warning if units stream out.
Q. How do you deal with Oracles? + Show Spoiler + TheDwf wrote:
Timings The fastest proxy Stargate (assuming no Probe cut for earlier gate/core) can be started as early as ~3'35, finishing at 4'35 and having an Oracle out at ~5'10, which means it can be in your mineral line as early as ~5'20 with a close distance. This kind or proxy can be scouted by your SCV because in this case, on top of not having a third Pylon in his base, Protoss starts the Stargate before Stalker and Warpgate (so you see that neither the Gateway nor the Core are immediately producing; for this reason, Protoss might build them behind the mineral line so you have less chances to see/check that). Protoss will also have some energy banked on the Nexus to chrono twice the Oracle. Of course Protoss needs dual gas for this timing.
On a standard timing i. e. after Stalker (and generally Warpgate, possibly MSC), the Stargate, proxied or not can be started anytime between 4'10 and 4'50 (depending on what Protoss produces out of his first Gateway and the MSC timing), finishing at 5'10 - 5'50 and having an Oracle out at ~5'45 - 6'25, which means it can be in your mineral line as early as ~5'55 - 6'35 with a close proxy distance (obviously later if the Stargate is built in his base). You can know there are strong chances of a proxy because a third Pylon is missing in his main base.
Producing an Oracle with 2 Chronoboosts takes approximatively 35 seconds.
If you scout Protoss is delaying Warpgate (the ''nodules'' at the bottom of the Core are not twitching), there are strong chances that he's playing Oracles because Oracles + MSC and some Stalkers are gas-intensive, and Warpgate is not needed at once when you're planning to harass with Oracles.
1 gate Stargate (1gS) expands build their Nexus around 6' - 6'10.
Our defensive tools Marines The critical number to defend a single Oracle with unupgraded Marines is 6. Not 5! 6. One Oracle kills 5 Marines, while 6 Marines kill one Oracle with 3 Marines surviving. Less than 6 Marines against a single Oracle = nothing.
9 Marines in a perfect line shift focusing 2 Oracles = 2 Marines surviving. 8 Marines lose by a very thin margin (assuming Protoss shift focuses in both cases).
12 Marines in a perfect line shift focusing 3 Oracles = 3 Marines surviving.
It takes ~16+ Marines in a pack (maintaining a line with such numbers is unrealistic) shift focusing 4 Oracles to win them with a few Marines surviving.
Turrets Turrets force your opponent to use Hold position outside of the range of the Turret, or to spend some attention microing the Oracle (else it auto-acquires the Turret). Beware though, some SCVs are typically mining out of the range of the Turrets, so the Oracle can still snipe some of them for free.
If your opponent wants to suicide an Oracle on SCVs despite the presence of a Turret, the Oracle can kill approximatively 4 SCVs by the time the Turret kills an Oracle (which takes 7 hits, i. e. 6 seconds).
Vikings An Oracle can kill approximatively 10 SCVs by the time a Viking kills an Oracle (which takes 8 volleys of fire, i. e. 16 seconds). I assumed the Viking was slightly ahead of the mineral line.
Moral of the story, move your SCVs even if you have a Viking guarding your mineral line.
Mines An Oracle can kill 1 SCV before the Mine says "no" and blasts it into oblivion in 2 seconds flat.
From all of this, the conclusions are quite straightforward. In early game, Mines are the best way to keep Oracles at bay, while Vikings are a decent addition for a mobile zoning tool. If you have access to neither of them, then Turrets are mandatory because Oracles just slaughter unupgraded Marines (especially when you factor the MSC and the threat of Time Warp, or Guardian Shield for frontal busts) who are slower, don't fly and have to move in packs so they can't be individually picked off by Oracles. Stimmed Marines of course do better because using Stim on a Marine without CS increases the dps for free (Oracles still kill them in 2 hits). Hence why gasless expands into 3 rax Medivacs have such vulnerabilities to Oracle play, because you have neither early Mines nor Stim before at least 8'30.
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On August 16 2014 10:47 cristianso wrote: TL;DR 1 - How to kill sieged tanks and raven/viking/battlecruisers? 4 - How to engage on TvT and TvP?
Sorry about my english, I don't speak americano! XD I also recommend that future posts go in the Terran Help Me thread, but to answer the other two anyway:
1.) You can't really finish them off without air superiority in the game if they have a good siege line or you're a marauder tank player and force some very good trades. If you're bio vs'ing a mech you should be able to secure more bases and transition to air faster. You don't necessarily have to do too much damage if you can threaten just enough to keep the mech army at home.
Raven viking BC is the strongest endgame comp in the game, it's not easy to transition to. You essentially max out on bio and tanks on a few bases and then after dropping starports down you start spending your bank to trade marauder supply for raven/viking/bc while keeping a respectable tank line.
4.) TvT: Above I just described one. Marine tank you stim forward only if their siege line is unsieged, then once you see the siege animation get outta there. Otherwise it's all about positioning and finding holes in their defense line.
TvP: Don't engage unless you have a good unit comp to match the protoss tech tree. 4 vikings per colossi, ghost for HT. Once you scan the protoss army move ghosts forward and snipe any HT (or EMP but then they just turn into archons) and EMP the rest. Do not engage entire protoss army without good EMPs. Queue the vikings onto each colossi then just kite bio backward.
Yeah that's a lot of micro but that's what you gotta do.
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In TvT I recommend going for a raven expand into 4 medivac drop at ~11:30.
Against oracle the key is to get a full scout of the base at ~5:15. If they haven't thrown a tech building down check proxy locations and send marines to ur mineral lines (6 per).
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1) Marauders do well against tanks, especially if you are ahead in upgrades.
2) Build hellions and use them for scouting, look for banelings forming around the map. Build bunkers as a response. Taeja builds an armory as soon as he knows it's a baneling bust, so he can get hellbats. Also can scout by dropping in the main base, or using banshees for scouting. If you see roaches, build marauders. If there are a lot of roaches, build tanks. A single tank can make a huge difference against a pack of roaches.
3) I gave a lot of methods for defending oracle in this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/451059-tvp-wtf. The short answer: build marines and put them in your mineral line.
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No one really gave an answer for scouting except the Terran help thread.
Just look for gas. if 2 gas taken and 3 in each and no tech buildings. probably oracles or DTs.
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On August 18 2014 17:38 KonanTenshi wrote: No one really gave an answer for scouting except the Terran help thread.
Just look for gas. if 2 gas taken and 3 in each and no tech buildings. probably oracles or DTs.
Or immortals. Or voidrays. Could even be blink I think, or do protoss only need 1 gas for blink ?
Edit: to answer the OP: have a look at the terran help me thread. Lots and lots of information there, and if something's missing you can always ask there. There are quite a few high level helpful terrans there that are willing to give advice and answer questions (TheDwf, NarutO, Ver, etc).
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On August 18 2014 16:21 phantomfive wrote:1) Marauders do well against tanks, especially if you are ahead in upgrades. 2) Build hellions and use them for scouting, look for banelings forming around the map. Build bunkers as a response. Taeja builds an armory as soon as he knows it's a baneling bust, so he can get hellbats. Also can scout by dropping in the main base, or using banshees for scouting. If you see roaches, build marauders. If there are a lot of roaches, build tanks. A single tank can make a huge difference against a pack of roaches. 3) I gave a lot of methods for defending oracle in this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/451059-tvp-wtf. The short answer: build marines and put them in your mineral line. I disagree with marauders, 10 marines is better than 5 marauders and marauders use gas. I guess it kinda depends on playstyle but usually marines>marauders (in tvt)
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First up, check out this website: http://www.imbabuilds.com, read through some build orders, and take heed to the advice given in the scouting, transition and execution sections. It's very useful information.
1 -TvT - Against mech you try and get your 3rd up really quickly. Get double ebay down and just be all over the place with double medivac MMM hit squads while you max out. Keep him on the back foot, take map control while you build up your army. In bio mech vs bio mech, it's all about taking better engagements and denying economy. I usually have 2 smaller armies and my main army on the map, as an 80 supply army with a healthy tank count can hold against much higher supply armies in a defensive siege position. Be where he isn't. Thats all the advice I have here.
2 -TvZ - Bunkers, marauders and mines. Timing on the 3rd is 6mins. Check for drones with your hellions, Check for a 4th, Scan his main and natural. Harass alot. if you see some early roach bane attack, having 3-5 bunkers behind a supply depot wall with mines and marauders is more than enough. It just takes practice. Refine your build order, practice against AI, and practice your reactions (pretend easy AI is throwing a 6-min 7 roach attack at your natural wall etc). More gg more skill. Learn from mistakes, Practice against AI, set specific goals to improve (e.g. This game I just want to scout heavily and know exactly what they are doing and see if they are droning or not etc). Again, imbabuilds.com is an amazing website to refer back to.
3 - TvP - Send an SCV out after you establish your typical 12/12 Rax Gas. Using your reaper and SCV to scout all over the map isn't as hard as you think. Usually this is not necessary as robo expand builds are easy to read. It takes practice and experience. Keep losing games, sometimes learning the hard way is the only way. But I have stopped alot of cheese from scouting common proxy locations. Keep at it.
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On August 23 2014 09:21 Leon1das1 wrote: I disagree with marauders, 10 marines is better than 5 marauders and marauders use gas. I guess it kinda depends on playstyle but usually marines>marauders (in tvt) Marine tank gets wasted by pure mech.
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On August 23 2014 11:33 Gaskal wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2014 09:21 Leon1das1 wrote: I disagree with marauders, 10 marines is better than 5 marauders and marauders use gas. I guess it kinda depends on playstyle but usually marines>marauders (in tvt) Marine tank gets wasted by pure mech. Against mech yes. Against mech you should be dropping when he moves out and harassing exposed bases.
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