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I can think of quite a few reasons but I wonder if there's one overruling reason that in the past week the meta seems to have changed, or at least a significant number of players (Scarlett, Hyun WCS AM; Dark v TY WECG) have recently been making corruptors instead of the standard ling/bling/muta.
I'm just a lowly platinum scrub so I'd like to hear others' opinions on it, spark a bit of discussion.
And if you do go for it, as a zerg, what should you be looking out for? Under which circumstances should you go for muta and which should you go for corruptor? Which upgrades should you prioritise in air upgrades? Should you care about melee ups for BLs later?
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On October 13 2014 19:00 x89 wrote: I can think of quite a few reasons but I wonder if there's one overruling reason that in the past week the meta seems to have changed, or at least a significant number of players (Scarlett, Hyun WCS AM; Dark v TY WECG) have recently been making corruptors instead of the standard ling/bling/muta.
I'm just a lowly platinum scrub so I'd like to hear others' opinions on it, spark a bit of discussion.
And if you do go for it, as a zerg, what should you be looking out for? Under which circumstances should you go for muta and which should you go for corruptor? Which upgrades should you prioritise in air upgrades? Should you care about melee ups for BLs later? According to Dark the style is good vs hellbat thor mixes. The real strenght of the style is that it saves you money since you don't need 20 of them to be able to pick off things, corrptor shrug off marines and thor hits very easily so you don't actually have to focus on microing them as much as mutas and focus on ling bane getting better connections. Since you don't constantly remake them you gain a lot of gas from it which you can use to tech up/make more banes. Later in the game it helps with broodlord transition because corrptors will kill the medivacs every engagement. I am a diamond scrub though so take my word with a grain of salt.
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I hadn't thought about the money saving, you're right I've not seen more than maybe 8 corruptors being made while you're looking to make, and save all your mutas.
So what would you be focusing the extra gas on? Getting your 3/3 ups, making banes and getting to whatever late game tech you want (I assume ultras)?
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I'm really curious how this style deals with mines considering mutas usually snipe those
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the question is what on earth do corruptors kill apart from medivacs which can boost away easily? nor can they actually deal damage to scv lines.
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On October 13 2014 19:29 Meavis wrote: I'm really curious how this style deals with mines considering mutas usually snipe those It's what, three hits to kill a corruptor with widow mines? But you're going to regen much slower. I'm not sure how you'd deal with them (perhaps ultras, or just vigilance with your army movement).
Armour upgrades wouldn't help but I guess you're mainly going to want the armour upgrade for corruptors - or are they tanky enough that you'd prioritise attack upgrades?
Also if it goes later you might want to switch into mutas depending on what the terran's doing and for harass. So are coruptors mainly a mid-game alternative to make the marines substantially weaker and allow for more mid-game presence with more ling/bling and upgrades?
Late game BLs are great against mech but I don't know against bio, if they drop your expansions your BLs are useless (slow), and you need a ground army under your BLs, queens too ideally.
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On October 13 2014 19:53 x89 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2014 19:29 Meavis wrote: I'm really curious how this style deals with mines considering mutas usually snipe those It's what, three hits to kill a corruptor with widow mines? But you're going to regen much slower. I'm not sure how you'd deal with them (perhaps ultras, or just vigilance with your army movement). Armour upgrades wouldn't help but I guess you're mainly going to want the armour upgrade for corruptors - or are they tanky enough that you'd prioritise attack upgrades? Also if it goes later you might want to switch into mutas depending on what the terran's doing and for harass. So are coruptors mainly a mid-game alternative to make the marines substantially weaker and allow for more mid-game presence with more ling/bling and upgrades? Late game BLs are great against mech but I don't know against bio, if they drop your expansions your BLs are useless (slow), and you need a ground army under your BLs, queens too ideally. Corruptors have retarded base stats so upgrades aren't too important for them, and broodlords scale more with ground upgades then air ones. Though air upgrades aren't too expensive so it might be better to go for attack incase you want to go into mutars later.
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On October 13 2014 19:12 HellHound wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2014 19:00 x89 wrote: I can think of quite a few reasons but I wonder if there's one overruling reason that in the past week the meta seems to have changed, or at least a significant number of players (Scarlett, Hyun WCS AM; Dark v TY WECG) have recently been making corruptors instead of the standard ling/bling/muta.
I'm just a lowly platinum scrub so I'd like to hear others' opinions on it, spark a bit of discussion.
And if you do go for it, as a zerg, what should you be looking out for? Under which circumstances should you go for muta and which should you go for corruptor? Which upgrades should you prioritise in air upgrades? Should you care about melee ups for BLs later? According to Dark the style is good vs hellbat thor mixes. The real strenght of the style is that it saves you money since you don't need 20 of them to be able to pick off things, corrptor shrug off marines and thor hits very easily so you don't actually have to focus on microing them as much as mutas and focus on ling bane getting better connections. Since you don't constantly remake them you gain a lot of gas from it which you can use to tech up/make more banes. Later in the game it helps with broodlord transition because corrptors will kill the medivacs every engagement. I am a diamond scrub though so take my word with a grain of salt.
thanks for this, makes a lot of sense that people do it vs Hellbat styles as you only want your mutas to shoot down medivacs and catch drops. The only downside is your corruptors react to drops far slower, but that's manageable when it comes with a more robust anti-air and a sick blord transition!
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I'm not sold on it. Broodlords in HOTS are more like loselords. The window to make something happen with them is extremely thin. With no mutas, all the Terran has to do is put his marauders in front and what can you do? This allows him to endlessly clean your creep. Just another opinion from a di scrub
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On October 13 2014 21:51 TRaFFiC wrote:I'm not sold on it. Broodlords in HOTS are more like loselords. The window to make something happen with them is extremely thin. With no mutas, all the Terran has to do is put his marauders in front and what can you do? This allows him to endlessly clean your creep. Just another opinion from a di scrub Yeah I think if terran makes no thors mutars are better, but with thors on the field you can't actually use the mutas to pick stuff off reliably.
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I don't use it, but i pictured it as a reaction to thor mine (not hellbats) since you cannot pick the mines with mutas without taking some shots. So you use corruptors because they can take marine/thor shots. You kill the medivacs and accept that you won't be able to harass or pick the mines without activating them. But the point that it should be more cost effective vs thor mine right? Im also a scrub btw.
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I agree that it would be good vs mech compositions or hellbat thor as previously stated.
Corruptors only viable with swarm host and roach ling support vs Terran vs bio/light mech play if you don't take a lot of damage in early game from harass and are able to saturate/expand properly without losing to drop play (lots of static D, lings)
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If this continues I wouldn't be surprised if we saw 2 factory tank production on 3 bases become popular.
I played against a Z last week who did it and I asked him and he said "mutas are useless in fights since the thor change". While obviously an exaggeration, HellHound also gave the other good reasons. I'm still not sold on skipping mutas in favor of corruptors completely though.
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I tried the corruptors today vs bio mine tank and it worked very well. The Point I believe is to take out the medivas (and reset the count making rines that much less effective) and tank the mine shots. Ling bling was very effective after that. Time will tell if this becomes a thing but I will try it again thats for sure. Also covers you in case theres an air switch you already have the corruptors. Hindsight I could have switched into SH ling bling but since I had the making of BL's it was very effective. Hard for t to make vikings to counter BL when the medivacs keep getting sniped.
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I saw Soulkey trying this on his stream, but he was experimenting with a bunch of other things (he tried SH mid game vs Bio too) so I didn't think much of it at the time. It seemed okay, corruptors automatically target medivacs and tank a lot better so you can focus on micro'ing your ling / bling. Haven't played vs it / tried it so I can't say anything for sure though. Might try it out on ladder tonight.
I also feel like if you get up a decent corruptor flock by the time you transition into BL's it will be very hard for T to make enough vikings to deal with it. Might make the eventual transition too obvious as well though.
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Northern Ireland20421 Posts
The rationales seem sensible for it and I like to see experimentation with slightly different compositions. Interested to see where this goes
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On October 14 2014 06:14 Pokebunny wrote: If this continues I wouldn't be surprised if we saw 2 factory tank production on 3 bases become popular.
I played against a Z last week who did it and I asked him and he said "mutas are useless in fights since the thor change". While obviously an exaggeration, HellHound also gave the other good reasons. I'm still not sold on skipping mutas in favor of corruptors completely though. I think its just another viable tool in the zerg bag of tricks. Hyun vs Heart on Nimbus seemed like a good illustration of the plan behind the strategy (although feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). By that I mean Corruptor/Ling/Bling allowed for strong reactionary defense as opposed to trying to make plays with mutalisks. As pointed out by Dark viz Hellhound, the Corruptors can keep the medivacs (and hence drops) in check allowing ling/bling to trade cost efficiently against Marines (stimming off creep eventually takes its toll when there are limited medivacs). Meanwhile a transition to Broodlords gives the zerg army a huge power spike which can end the game (the upgrades for lings helping the broodlings is a big plus).
That said, I'd be interested to see this style against a more passive style of Terran. Double fac tank on three bases (or a fourth) seems to fit that pretty well.
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On October 14 2014 10:28 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2014 06:14 Pokebunny wrote: If this continues I wouldn't be surprised if we saw 2 factory tank production on 3 bases become popular.
I played against a Z last week who did it and I asked him and he said "mutas are useless in fights since the thor change". While obviously an exaggeration, HellHound also gave the other good reasons. I'm still not sold on skipping mutas in favor of corruptors completely though. I think its just another viable tool in the zerg bag of tricks. Hyun vs Heart on Nimbus seemed like a good illustration of the plan behind the strategy (although feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). By that I mean Corruptor/Ling/Bling allowed for strong reactionary defense as opposed to trying to make plays with mutalisks. As pointed out by Dark viz Hellhound, the Corruptors can keep the medivacs (and hence drops) in check allowing ling/bling to trade cost efficiently against Marines (stimming off creep eventually takes its toll when there are limited medivacs). Meanwhile a transition to Broodlords gives the zerg army a huge power spike which can end the game (the upgrades for lings helping the broodlings is a big plus). That said, I'd be interested to see this style against a more passive style of Terran. Double fac tank on three bases (or a fourth) seems to fit that pretty well.
I don't think that should work though. Heart scouted the Brood Lord transition way too late in that game on Nimbus. He shut it down really easily the second time that Hyun tried to do it - I think the surprise factor allowed Hyun to take that first game but it's not really viable...
EDIT - I guess you're right when you say tool in a bag of tricks.
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I've been using corruptors vs bio for a few weeks and it really turned my ZvT around. I'm only mid master or so, so take my opinion with a grain of salt. As a bad player it is a hundred times easier to play with corruptors. Battles are much easier to micro, timings are much easier to hold due to corruptors being cheaper (I only get 6-8 at most). There is also the aspect of corruptors being so much tankier than mutas, and no terran unit will auto target them. When I as a bad player build muta in ZvT, I always end up losing a couple here and there. Enough so that I can't really spare any gas to tech past lair in a timely fashion. However with corruptors I can tech really fast and even throw in some infestors, thus making my army so much stronger.
But the biggest thing is that in every single battle, every single medivac dies. The bio really loses steam once that happens and I win by A clicking the poor guy once my 2-2 finishes.
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