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[TvP] Lets Cook! Marine Feint into 6 Hellion BBQ (The Furbi Hellion Build)
Update Version 2.0, Errors in post may exist.
This build was shown to me by Furbiford, and has helped my TvP woes tremendously.
Mech is possible! However, in order to successfully survive the early game you are restricted to either turtling, or hyper aggressive plays in order to hurt the Protoss economy. The build is a basic Reaper expand build, with a twist. This build makes use of early Marine pressure to fake out a Photon Overcharge, and follow up with Iron Chef, Koprulu sector- Probe Barbeque Edition.
The key strengths of this build rely on “normalness” of the opening. This build is very deceiving, and if not scouted correctly, deadly. There have been games where 30+ Probes met a fiery death in Kitchen Map Pool, and very little the Protoss can do about it. The build can very easily flow into mech, I use a composition primarily based around Hellbats and Medivacs, with Tanks and Ghosts as support for a very strong mid game push that is usually game ending.
Build Order
-REAPER EXPAND- 10 - Supply Depot 12 - Barracks 12 - Refinery 15 - Orbital Command Upgrade 15 - Reaper (1) Mine an extra 50 gas You temporarily take all SCVs out of gas @50 Gas so you can get your CC out ASAP. @ 400 Minerals- CC @50 Minerals, 50 Gas- Reactor @100 Minerals - Depot -END REAPER EXPAND- -BEGIN FURBI HELLION BUILD- -When your CC is placed, put 3 SCV’s back into your one geyser. @ 100% Reactor construction, constant Marine Production until minimum 8 Marines. @ 100 Gas, plop down your factory next to barracks. -You should start an Engi Bay here if you see Double gas or expect a Oracle. @ 100% Factory, Tech Lab Onto Factory, Make 2nd Factory (You will land this factory onto the Tech Lab) @100% Tech Lab, Move Barracks somewhere else, Have factory take reactor. @ 100% 8 Marines, Send Marines out to go bait out a Photon Overcharge and snipe units. THESE MARINES WILL DIE! @ 100% 6 Hellions, go attack Probe Lines. Photon Overcharge that you baited out should now be over. @ 100% 6 Hellions, Make 3rd CC in base. IF DONE CORRECTLY, THE HELLIONS SHOULD HIT AT 8:30-9:00.
IF YOU ARE FACING BLINK OR DT'S:
If you scout a Twilight or you’re unsure of what the Protoss is doing:
Keep producing Marines from your Reactored Barracks, start producing Siege Tanks from your Factory, take your 2nd Refinery and saturate upon completion.
If you scout a Robotics Facility and/or Forge:
Lift your Barracks off the Reactor after you produced 8 Marines, put your Factory on the Reactor and start producing Hellions. You’ll have 100 gas upon completion of the Factory and you’ll have 3 choices on what to build with that gas:
1. You can make a 2nd Factory on the Tech Lab to be able to make more Hellions and make Siege Tanks if need be. (Furbiford’s preferred choice) 2. You can make a Star Port to go for possible Banshee harass or make a Medivac to drop Hellions in the Protoss’ base. 3. You can go for an Armory and have the ability to morph into Hellbats as well as start your mech upgrades.
*NOTE* You will not take a 2nd gas until after you start your 3rd CC unless you go for the Banshee option and want Cloak.
Execution
-What appears to be the makings of a normal build (huehuehuehuehue)
-You can build a bunker, this does not delay the timing at all, and is a safer option overall
THE MARINE PUSH
-Any Micro slip will result in Protoss loss of life
The most important thing to remember with this push, is that it is a FEINT!
noun 1. a deceptive or pretended blow, thrust, or other movement, especially in boxing or fencing. "a brief feint at the opponent's face"
This attack, while it can do massive damage, its only role is to force the Protoss player to activate Photon Overcharge. The real damage always comes with the Hellion Run-By. With that being said, there is still plenty of Damage to be done with the Marines if you can control them well, but please take heed to this Unit Priority list.
THINGS TO PEW PEW FIRST
-Always Pew Pew The MSC first
-MSC -Sentry -Stalker -Zealot -Probe
Since this is a FEINT, and the real damage is going to be done very soon, you must try to kill any units that will make it harder for your Hellions to deal economic damage. Killing the MSC will always guarantee no 2nd Photon Overcharge, Sentries can FF paths for hellions and make the hit harder to pull off, and Stalkers are expensive, so killing one or two is always nice.
THE HELLION COOK OFF
-Expect Heavy Resistance, but resistance is futile!
This is where the 1-2 Punch starts to take effect. Hopefully, you were able to do damage to the Protoss Forces and successfully bait out a Photon Overcharge. Hellion Control is going to be crucial in getting the most bang for your buck out of this attack. You need to constantly be on watch for Probes retreating and lining up, and make sure to always either attack probes, or move to attack probes. Do not waste any of your Hellions on attacking Protoss units other than probes! These Hellions are on borrowed time, make sure they make the difference with Probe kills. You need to remember that You should have a 3rd CC on the way while this attack is going on, so any Probe Kills, small or game ending, is going to put you at an advantage going into the mid-game.
-The Dream Scenario
THE AFTERMATH
Hopefully you were able to get a good amount of Probe Kills, and now that you are on 3 Base CC (Still 2 base ECON because you haven’t landed your 3rd CC quite yet), you have 2 outcomes you can face.
OUTCOME 1. The Protoss is now playing defensively. This is the best possible outcome you could hope for in this game. Your hellion run by has exposed a major weakness in the Protoss army, and the fear of losing more probes in a Fiery death still lingers. This will allow you to add more factories or barracks, and macro up on a 3 base economy to contain the Protoss player, and attack with a much larger army.
OUTCOME 2. The Protoss player is going to attack/ all in you. This is where having 2 factories can really come into play. From your reactor-ed factory, Start constant mine production, and the one with your tech lab, start Tank Production. Build Bunkers and marines, just to fill the gap between your tanks and mines. When the attack does come, you should be more than prepared.
REPLAYS:
http://ggtracker.com/matches/5570332
Enjoy the build, I hope this different build will produce exciting and fun to play games!
-Glhf and Happy StarCrafting
-RegiCidE
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Seems like a fun build, but I notice that a lot of the Protosses you are facing are not simcitying very well, simcity is regarded as one of the key components of defending such bbq harass. So you might give a disclaimer or information regarding what level the build is applicable for.
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On November 05 2014 06:58 TokO wrote: Seems like a fun build, but I notice that a lot of the Protosses you are facing are not simcitying very well, simcity is regarded as one of the key components of defending such bbq harass. So you might give a disclaimer or information regarding what level the build is applicable for.
This build is more designed for mid to lower level players, but can be used for higher levels of play!
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On November 05 2014 06:58 TokO wrote: Seems like a fun build, but I notice that a lot of the Protosses you are facing are not simcitying very well, simcity is regarded as one of the key components of defending such bbq harass. So you might give a disclaimer or information regarding what level the build is applicable for.
faced this build against EU GM's multiple times today. its actually really good against anything thats not blink. I like to use hellions to bait nexus cannon instead and i mix in 1 widow mine and drop it on the ramp. very fun
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This looks a lot like a build I've seen being used by pro players, except in that one they get a medivac and do a marine drop/hellion runby at the same time, what is the biggest difference between the two?
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On November 05 2014 10:47 Lexender wrote: This looks a lot like a build I've seen being used by pro players, except in that one they get a medivac and do a marine drop/hellion runby at the same time, what is the biggest difference between the two?
It's a great transition into mech, and if you get lots of probe kills, you will pretty much always win with a mid game max army push at a somewhat high level of play
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Very fun build, I personally swap the barracks and fac without making any marines, like in a tvz, and I add a starport instead of the second factory. So the BBQ occurs in a 1-2 punch, you push with 8 hellions and a medivac, you send the medivac in their main and unload, start cooking, Toss pulls army into his main, get the other 4 hellions in the natural, fry the probes rushing down the ramp, laugh hysterically. Then your medivac remains a constant threat and toss is afraid of counter-attacking.
The build is much more susceptible to counter-attacks due to the late 2nd fac though, but it can be utterly devastating.
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The hellbat buff gives a lot more possibilities for counter-attack defense I feel, because two tanks with hellbat support are quite strong (blinking in the middle of hellbats is not the best idea in the world).
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On November 05 2014 10:47 Lexender wrote: This looks a lot like a build I've seen being used by pro players, except in that one they get a medivac and do a marine drop/hellion runby at the same time, what is the biggest difference between the two?
If you're talking about a 111 drop, it's much less economic, hits earlier, and is a 2 prong attack whereas this build is a marine poke followed by hellion runby. Because you are teching so much with the 111 drop, it's easier for the Protoss to scout and see aggression is coming, whereas with this build you open normal 12 rax 12 reaper and they may fail to scout the hellions.
Or there is the variation where you expand and delay it by expanding before getting a factory and starport, which I guess would be more similar then
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I feel so special! =D
One thing to note. I usually make the initial techlab on my Factory if by some chance something I scout with my Reaper warrants me making immediate Siege Tanks vs swapping over to Hellions. Here's a couple replay examples showing me swapping over to make Hellions or making Siege Tanks instead:
Hellion replay: http://drop.sc/388823
When you scout with your Reaper if you see the standard Robotics Facility and/or Forge you're usually good to go to carry on with the hellions.
Siege Tank replay: http://drop.sc/388822
This game when I'm scouting with my Reaper I scout a Twilight Council. You really don't want to open Hellions if your opponent has the potential to do a Blink all in, so I open with Siege Tanks for safety.
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On Nimbus your build would have fallen flat if he had just gotten the ForceField on the ramp continuously.
This is the big problem with your build: without the medivac being incorporated there's no guarantee that you'll have the hellions even make it INTO the base (let alone BBQing).
Besides a wide ramp like King Sejong Station, a simple sim city can easily deflect this kind of attack, and even then if you get into the natural, if Protoss reacts quickly he can just hide the probes in the main and block the ramp with a Force Field.
This build relies heavily on having that first marine push debilitating the opponent regardless of how much actual in game damage is done.
Also this Second Factory doesn't really come into play in the actual timing of this build. Yes, you'll have more firepower with more Hellions, but the difference between having 6 Hellions with 1 factory, and more than 6 with 2 factories is minimal. If you weren't going to make critical hits with 6 Hellions it's unlikely that having any more will do anything (unless Protoss really fucks up vs the Marines and for whatever reason doesn't have more than 1 or two units ready to block the Hellions).
I feel like you'd be way better off just going for the 1-1-1 after Reaper Expansion, doing the same timing with a Medivac, and having the flexibility to make an earlier Third Command Center before additional buildings if you do critical damage, or going towards 3 Barracks Stim/Mech regardless of what happens.
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On November 06 2014 03:34 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2014 10:47 Lexender wrote: This looks a lot like a build I've seen being used by pro players, except in that one they get a medivac and do a marine drop/hellion runby at the same time, what is the biggest difference between the two? If you're talking about a 111 drop, it's much less economic, hits earlier, and is a 2 prong attack whereas this build is a marine poke followed by hellion runby. Because you are teching so much with the 111 drop, it's easier for the Protoss to scout and see aggression is coming, whereas with this build you open normal 12 rax 12 reaper and they may fail to scout the hellions. Or there is the variation where you expand and delay it by expanding before getting a factory and starport, which I guess would be more similar then
Yes that one, I've seen it done with either reaper FE or 12 rax 15 gas expand, I was just asking because this seems more delayed and with this you are attacking at two different times altough you are using almost the same units (6-8 marines and 6 hellions) so I was just asking what are the biggest pros and cons between that one and this one. IMO this push seems weaker because spliting your spliting your army but I'm not sure thats why I'm asking, I hope I didn't sounded like an asshole lol
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On November 10 2014 22:22 Lexender wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2014 03:34 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On November 05 2014 10:47 Lexender wrote: This looks a lot like a build I've seen being used by pro players, except in that one they get a medivac and do a marine drop/hellion runby at the same time, what is the biggest difference between the two? If you're talking about a 111 drop, it's much less economic, hits earlier, and is a 2 prong attack whereas this build is a marine poke followed by hellion runby. Because you are teching so much with the 111 drop, it's easier for the Protoss to scout and see aggression is coming, whereas with this build you open normal 12 rax 12 reaper and they may fail to scout the hellions. Or there is the variation where you expand and delay it by expanding before getting a factory and starport, which I guess would be more similar then Yes that one, I've seen it done with either reaper FE or 12 rax 15 gas expand, I was just asking because this seems more delayed and with this you are attacking at two different times altough you are using almost the same units (6-8 marines and 6 hellions) so I was just asking what are the biggest pros and cons between that one and this one. IMO this push seems weaker because spliting your spliting your army but I'm not sure thats why I'm asking, I hope I didn't sounded like an asshole lol
This build is more economic, and focused more on scaring your Protoss opponent that aggression is going to be coming the entire game. If you can cause heavy losses, or a few solid snipes on units/probes, you force the Protoss mindset to be defensive, allowing you to play passively and take your 3rd CC without much trouble. You aren't really splitting your army, the two pushes occur at different times. The cons are all with scouting, and a very strong sim city base layout. If you do not scout, and miss an all in you will die, no questions asked. The hellions, while nimble and fast, can be blocked off quite easily with a force-field or a carefully placed warp-in. You should look to trade even with your hellions, and sometimes when trying this build out at first, It can be very difficult to do.
This build is more so about changing the mindset, and continuing confusion for the Protoss player, causing them to make mistakes, and you capitalizing with your army.
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Also with this build you get 2 factories, so it helps set up your mech production.
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Since you edited the thread with the changes I provided for you I'll point out a couple errors I still see:
1. You temporarily take all SCVs out of gas, not leave 1 in gas, at 50 extra gas so you can get your CC out ASAP and then resume mining gas.
2. You make the initial Tech Lab with your first Factory, not your second. By the time your 7th and 8th Marine pop out the Tech Lab on your Factory finishes and then you can swap the Factory onto the Reactor and start your 2nd Factory on the Tech Lab that the first Factory made.
3. Take the following things in bold out:
On November 05 2014 06:50 Comradepuppy wrote:
@ 100% Factory, Make 2nd Gas. There will be a slim amount of time before the 8 Marines are out You can make a mine if you expect 2+ Oracles @ 100% 8 Marines, Send Marines out to go bait out a Photon Overcharge and snipe units. THESE MARINES WILL DIE! swap Barracks and Factory. Begin making Hellions non-stop, Make a Tech Lab with your 2nd Factory. @ 100% 8 Marines, Make Armory. @ 100% 6 Hellions, go attack Probe Lines. Photon Overcharge that you baited out should now be over. @ 100% 6 Hellions, Make 3rd CC in base.
The reason is because these things are mentioned in bold here:
On November 05 2014 06:50 Comradepuppy wrote:
1. You can make a 2nd Factory on the Tech Lab to be able to make more Hellions and make Siege Tanks if need be. (Furbiford’s preferred choice) 2. You can make a Star Port to go for possible Banshee harass or make a Medivac to drop Hellions in the Protoss’ base. 3. You can go for an Armory and have the ability to morph into Hellbats as well as start your mech upgrades.
*NOTE* You will not take a 2nd gas until after you start your 3rd CC unless you go for the Banshee option and want Cloak.
This is all I see for now. =)
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On November 16 2014 02:13 Furbiford wrote:Since you edited the thread with the changes I provided for you I'll point out a couple errors I still see: 1. You temporarily take all SCVs out of gas, not leave 1 in gas, at 50 extra gas so you can get your CC out ASAP and then resume mining gas. 2. You make the initial Tech Lab with your first Factory, not your second. By the time your 7th and 8th Marine pop out the Tech Lab on your Factory finishes and then you can swap the Factory onto the Reactor and start your 2nd Factory on the Tech Lab that the first Factory made. 3. Take the following things in bold out: Show nested quote +On November 05 2014 06:50 Comradepuppy wrote:
@ 100% Factory, Make 2nd Gas. There will be a slim amount of time before the 8 Marines are out You can make a mine if you expect 2+ Oracles @ 100% 8 Marines, Send Marines out to go bait out a Photon Overcharge and snipe units. THESE MARINES WILL DIE! swap Barracks and Factory. Begin making Hellions non-stop, Make a Tech Lab with your 2nd Factory. @ 100% 8 Marines, Make Armory. @ 100% 6 Hellions, go attack Probe Lines. Photon Overcharge that you baited out should now be over. @ 100% 6 Hellions, Make 3rd CC in base.
The reason is because these things are mentioned in bold here: Show nested quote +On November 05 2014 06:50 Comradepuppy wrote:
1. You can make a 2nd Factory on the Tech Lab to be able to make more Hellions and make Siege Tanks if need be. (Furbiford’s preferred choice) 2. You can make a Star Port to go for possible Banshee harass or make a Medivac to drop Hellions in the Protoss’ base. 3. You can go for an Armory and have the ability to morph into Hellbats as well as start your mech upgrades.
*NOTE* You will not take a 2nd gas until after you start your 3rd CC unless you go for the Banshee option and want Cloak.
This is all I see for now. =)
All the fixing we did, at least the build is fully correct and ready for people to use now :D
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Regi, I notice you only have posted one replay. If you'd like me to post my own replays to add to your guide I'd be happy to do so.
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Nice write up.
ill try this. hope this helps my tvp troubles....
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