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I've played since release as Protoss and I've been stuck at platinum for a year. What do I have to do to get past it?
I go macro every game, and looking at this season's map pool it looks like the only easy third is on Akilon (I thumbs down all four player maps), but last game against swarm hosts I just quit out of boredom. I destroyed at least half a dozen hatcheries and he never got one of mine, but nothing I tried beat his swarm hosts/corruptors/roaches/hydras/brood lords etc.
I know this is a pretty broad question, but what should I do? All in every game? I guess I'd settle for how to beat swarm hosts consistently.
Every time I think I've solved something (e.g., cheese) I'll take a step back somewhere else (like roach/hydra).
Anyway. Suggestions?
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China6280 Posts
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Could you provide some replays for the community to offer tips and advice? Also you could check the protoss help me thread for advice on swarm hosts.
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On December 13 2014 13:26 digmouse wrote: Just skip this season, it's not worth playing solid style or try to practice on it at all.
I agree this season is pointless to play because of maphackers, and the maps suck, but all in all it will be good practice for anyone, simply saying " Just skip the season, not worth trying to play solid" is silly, because being able to solidify a solid play on maps where its a lot harder to, will only make you better in the end.
First I would suggest taking a step back as you stated you already did, and analyze what you think you could be doing better in each game that you are losing, watch some of the Protoss streams on the right hand side, (MiniGun is streaming now, great Protoss.)
Like you stated previously, yes it is actually a good idea to all in a lot on these maps, these maps are very strong for Protoss all in.
Have you attempted to read the Strategy section, primarily the Protoss Help Me Thread, but also the "Protoss Book of BullShit" will help you a lot too. Scouting is very important, if you scout the Zerg is going Swarm Hosts too late, you may build up an army that isn't going to counter is very well, and in the end have an extremely difficult time trying to stop it. If you would like further advice , I can help on Skype. My Skype is TelecomRG, feel free to ask.
EDIT : Oh damn I made a mistake, I guess you are supposed to post replays to support what you are saying in the post.
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open up sc2, create a custom game vs no one or vs easiest ai w/e. practice your strat, (the more you practice the stronger you will be). After x amount of time hit search on ladder and get promoted with wins. when you lose, watch replay (not at x8 speed) at faster game speed just like you play. learn and fix w/e the biggest mistake was you made or kept making. This is starcraft, there is no magic strategy that will win you games on every map in every situation, you must prepare practice and repeat until you hit desired skill level. It takes work. Very simple to understand and execute but never easy. if you've got questions pm I'm happy to help, if you've got excuses don't bother b/c I won't listen.
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you shouldnt go for macro in every game. you need to pressure and attack if there is an opportunity. you cant sit back all the time and macro especially as toss. check all the pro players. they play timings all the time and attack. nobody sits in his base and macros on 3 base in every game. maybe thats the ultimate goal or what happens inevitably, but before that you need to make things happen with sharp attacks.
the game is much to divers so that you can play "macro" every time.For beginners its good if they focus on macro but it doesnt work in higher leagues. If you scout a zerg taking 4 bases in the beginning you cant macro especially when scouting this late. In pvp if opponent gets nexus first and you scout it late, you will never catch up if you dont kill it right away. If you see a greedy terran why not 2 base gateway pressure him, before leading into macro game.
there are thousands of tiny things like this which can indicate when to pressure, Watch for them and take the opportunity. And dont just autopilot on macro.
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when i made it dia for the first time, and last its the highest i ever got, it just took forever. ive been watching gm streamers stay in the bracket for an unusually long time vs their wins so dont sweat it man, just have to keep going and make sure you are still taking it all in, plat is great prac anyways i find, games are 70/30 for me these days but i do sense a lot of smurfing in the league with this map pool, everything when you click on names after match is ex masters, and i do mean nearly everyone. Chin up tho man, this league i would have to say ruined by thirst for the game in the first place. Stuck there for a year between 2011 and 2012, broke to dia, then hots came in full swing and never made it back in but playing only dias. they did something to the league system about a yearish ago so it may be easier. My play has dropped to only a handful of games a week and i used to top those games played counter sites!
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pretty nonsense. First: no real help without a replay. Second: even with replay, there will be guys telling you to not be supply blocked, have better macro und army control. These are general things you need to work on as platinum and there is just one solution: Practice. That`s why any master player will kill you irrespective of the strategy. You could have an easy BO win on paper and he will still win. Just go with one strat for every Matchup and work on your APM. There is no way around.
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On December 13 2014 13:26 digmouse wrote: Just skip this season, it's not worth playing solid style or try to practice on it at all.
He's in platinum. He can improve his play on Steppes of War if needed. Maps are just an excuse for players on that level.
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Watch streams of progamers/tournaments. Play more 1v1 games. It should be around 50%/50% of your time invested in sc2 at your level. These are the 2 things that will get you to any league. Watching streams will make you understand the game better. Playing more games will allow you to refine your mechanics which you are 'copying' from what you see on stream.
Remember that you (as a non-progamer) are never bad because you are against specific things. You're always bad in general and you don't need to waste time focusing on those specific things.
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Watch pro streams Read protoss help me thread Play 20 games a day. do this and you will improve
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https://www.youtube.com/user/filtersc
Brings up many interesting points. The recent mentality episodes (an important aspect to the game I've not seen or heard of anyone else doing) Are very interesting. For example writing stuff down, where or what you feel you are slipping or loosing too.
Perhaps, focusing on probe production. Scouting. Tech upgrades. Defense. Better high templar control. Anything.
Any aspect of your gameplay which you feel needs more work. Write it down, and prioritise this list. Then focus on ONE aspect at time until you feel you have got it down, then move onto the next most important.
But hey, I'm just plagarising FilterSC here, go watch the vods for yourself.
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I think it's as easy as "have a build". Or better yet, "have a solid build that you kind of understand, and execute it properly - especially when it comes to the macro". If you can hit benchmarks properly in most games, you'll likely get promoted imo. In other words, do the basics right, because that's your foundation.
There are different approaches to get promoted though. For example, you can probably outright kill most low level terrans with that proxy oracle into voidray gateway all in. But you can play a straight up game with a solid PvT build. By solid build, I mean a very standard build like the one KingAlphard suggested the other day in the Protoss Help Me thread:
On November 26 2014 06:27 KingAlphard wrote: I can recommend you from IEM Toronto (3 months ago) : Zest vs Yoda, game 3 (overgrowth). You can find the thread with the replay pack here on TL. Really solid BO for 1 gate expo > robo into 3 base blink colossus with quick charge/storm, staying on a single forge until on 6 gases.
You don't have to be fancy in PvP imo. You can do whatever you want, since PvT is a very stylistic matchup... but here what my suggestions. If you want a good all in that will probably kill many players, a simple build like 10 gate --> 3 gate all in should do. If you want to play a macro game, DT expands are amazing imo. The way I like to do it is - get 6 probes on gas right away, get a 3:45ish proxy twilight into dark shrine (probe that builds the geysers goes out to build the pylon) with 2 gates + a robo into a nexus on 2 stalkers + a msc. You have to get proxy pylon next to your opponent's base early, and try sending your probe in at 5:30 or so if you can, because if you're getting 10 gated, you need a proxy pylon in his base to warp in as soon as your dark shrine finishes.
I don't have much to say about PvZ, except that benchmarks are probably the most important thing here. It's important to scout a lot with hallucinated phoenixes if you want to play a long game. Also, you should aim for a solid late game composition, even if you use other units as stepping stones as you set up a transition behind it. Still, it all starts with hitting benchmarks, whether it's a macro-oriented build or an all in.
One of the best ways to make sure you know the build is to hit your benchmarks by yourself first. That includes rallying your probes properly - you don't want to have more than 16 probes on minerals in your main when your making probes for your natural. Last but not least, I'd say make sure you use camera keys to hotkey your bases at the start - and make sure use them -, because that will make it much easier to do many things, such as building anything in a hectic moment, ralllying your probes, keeping tabs on everything in general, responding to drops, etc.
A lot of people are talking about watching pros and whatnot. If thinks that's pretty good if you need more knowledge. The more you know about current builds at pro level, the easier it is for you to make stuff happen. For example, the DT build I mentioned allows you to do things like have detection against dts and drop dts later. Before this build become more popular - and that took quite a bit of time since I stole this build from a vod -, it was very easy to get a free win against someone going dts, because most players would just get dts without a robo and straight up die. Think about in WOL, dt mirrors were really messy because players wouldn't get detection in time. So having detection in time and being able to drop a player who just keeps his army in front of his natural with a single observer while leaving his main vulnerable was a huge edge. Not to mention you could see "tricks" like players droppping 3 dts on top of a single cannon in the main to take it down, which would take so many players by surprise. How much you need to watch is relative though, maybe you're already knowledgeable and need more practice for the most part, but if you're not knowledgeable you should definitely work on that.
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On December 14 2014 01:29 SatedSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2014 13:26 digmouse wrote: Just skip this season, it's not worth playing solid style or try to practice on it at all. Bullshit. There are 4 very normal maps for Protoss this season (Ohana, CK, Akilon, Daybreak). If you can't play a normal style on those maps then you're just not good enough. Yeah, these maps are fine. Daybreak and CK drive me nuts with the poorly optimized mineral income you have at the start on them. In PvT, my robo bay and twilight are never as fast on these maps as they are on Overgrowth or King Sejong. Your first pylon and your msc are always a bit later than usual too... it feels so weird. But aside from that, these maps are fine.
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On December 14 2014 01:29 SatedSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2014 13:26 digmouse wrote: Just skip this season, it's not worth playing solid style or try to practice on it at all. Bullshit. There are 4 very normal maps for Protoss this season (Ohana, CK, Akilon, Daybreak). If you can't play a normal style on those maps then you're just not good enough.
Yeah especially Akilon and Ohana, those maps are Protoss heaven
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On December 14 2014 01:47 vhapter wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2014 01:29 SatedSC2 wrote:On December 13 2014 13:26 digmouse wrote: Just skip this season, it's not worth playing solid style or try to practice on it at all. Bullshit. There are 4 very normal maps for Protoss this season (Ohana, CK, Akilon, Daybreak). If you can't play a normal style on those maps then you're just not good enough. Yeah, these maps are fine. Daybreak and CK drive me nuts with the poorly optimized mineral income you have at the start on them. In PvT, my robo bay and twilight are never as fast on these maps as they are on Overgrowth or King Sejong. Your first pylon and your msc are always a bit later than usual too... it feels so weird. But aside from that, these maps are fine. This happens pretty much in every map pool, that there are maps with less mineral income than others. For example, Catallena. It's very frustrating even if you know that your opponent has that handicap too, and it often leads me to play greedier to make the timings fit.
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On December 14 2014 01:48 vult wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2014 01:29 SatedSC2 wrote:On December 13 2014 13:26 digmouse wrote: Just skip this season, it's not worth playing solid style or try to practice on it at all. Bullshit. There are 4 very normal maps for Protoss this season (Ohana, CK, Akilon, Daybreak). If you can't play a normal style on those maps then you're just not good enough. Yeah especially Akilon and Ohana, those maps are Protoss heaven I don't know about that. Akilon doesn't favor protoss as much as you might think. I mean...
(1) PvZ- It's very easy for zergs to shut down harassment - you have that rock at the 3rd/4th and decent creep spread gives more than enough warning when there's a zealot warp in somewhere. The map basically favors turtling and swarm hosts. (2) PvZ - Has a weird ramp. (3) PvZ - The area that leads to your natural, third, and fourth are wide open. There's only so much you can force field. (4) PvT - Again, it's hard to harass on this map. Terrans have some air space to work with, but if you rely on proxy pylons, it's difficult to do anything without being spotted and shut down. Warp prisms are good, but that depends on which third the terran takes and how well-defended he is. (5) PvT - Photon overcharge doesn't cover your natural properly, so you need a sentry against concussive shells pokes at 7 minutes and can't punish the terran at all for that. (6) PvT - Not hard to get a good concave in the middle of the map if the protoss decides to attack. (7) PvT - The ramp at the natural also makes it easier to dodge forcefields.
So it does have a few disadvantages in PvZ and PvT. Especially points 3 and 5. Having to fight zergs out in the open is terrible. But yeah, I guess it's not hard to turtle against terran, even if you have to go stalker sentry (you can get a second gate and still be in a relatively safe position anyway).
On December 14 2014 01:56 KingAlphard wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2014 01:47 vhapter wrote:On December 14 2014 01:29 SatedSC2 wrote:On December 13 2014 13:26 digmouse wrote: Just skip this season, it's not worth playing solid style or try to practice on it at all. Bullshit. There are 4 very normal maps for Protoss this season (Ohana, CK, Akilon, Daybreak). If you can't play a normal style on those maps then you're just not good enough. Yeah, these maps are fine. Daybreak and CK drive me nuts with the poorly optimized mineral income you have at the start on them. In PvT, my robo bay and twilight are never as fast on these maps as they are on Overgrowth or King Sejong. Your first pylon and your msc are always a bit later than usual too... it feels so weird. But aside from that, these maps are fine. This happens pretty much in every map pool, that there are maps with less mineral income than others. For example, Catallena. It's very frustrating even if you know that your opponent has that handicap too, and it often leads me to play greedier to make the timings fit. Oh really? I didn't know Catallena had this problem since I vetoed it right away. I remember dying a few times on these maps because of silly things like me doing a 9:00 colossus (out) build, but not being able to get a colossus out at 9:00 and a stim push hitting me at the exact moment I should have a colossus out. lol
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Just make sure your builds are crisp and you're hitting the right timings. The best advice I ever got was that Protoss, whether you're all in or not, lives and dies by timings. Cheesing every game won't help, but mixing it in can blow off steam and zerg tears are an important ingredient in many potions and magical brews.
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On December 14 2014 01:47 vhapter wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2014 01:29 SatedSC2 wrote:On December 13 2014 13:26 digmouse wrote: Just skip this season, it's not worth playing solid style or try to practice on it at all. Bullshit. There are 4 very normal maps for Protoss this season (Ohana, CK, Akilon, Daybreak). If you can't play a normal style on those maps then you're just not good enough. Yeah, these maps are fine. Daybreak and CK drive me nuts with the poorly optimized mineral income you have at the start on them. In PvT, my robo bay and twilight are never as fast on these maps as they are on Overgrowth or King Sejong. Your first pylon and your msc are always a bit later than usual too... it feels so weird. But aside from that, these maps are fine. Damn, I wasn't being crazy with my 15 hatchery always coming out a bit later on daybreak after all.
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