|
Hey guys, a lot of people struggle from this Protoss opening, and it's VERY simple. DO NOT pull workers early, do not attack pylon or gate with workers, just follow these simple steps.
10 Depot (Ramp) 11 Rax (Near CC) 11 Rax (Near CC) 13 OC
Non-stop workers, marines after the rax. Do not way-point marines towards gate, instead into your mineral line.
Fight with a few workers and marine/s early on, peeling low health workers off. Build up enough marines, kill the prox.
I prefer to double expand off of this; quite often Protoss plays greedy after this. Third CC can be in-base or ninja.
Picture Examples: http://imgur.com/a/jsl6I#0
Hope this helps!
|
Is this actually as ez as u have put it? Last time I played this I did a 12 rax and saw the gate in the building process. Barely hold with a bunker and many scv losses.
Ur guide assumes the gate/ pylon to be scouted at 10 or at least at 11 supply. Otherwise how would u throw down double 11 rax? What, if u scout the proxy later, let's say when ur 12 rax is on the way?
|
On May 22 2015 15:33 Phaenoman wrote: Is this actually as ez as u have put it? Last time I played this I did a 12 rax and saw the gate in the building process. Barely hold with a bunker and many scv losses.
Ur guide assumes the gate/ pylon to be scouted at 10 or at least at 11 supply. Otherwise how would u throw down double 11 rax? What, if u scout the proxy later, let's say when ur 12 rax is on the way? It's quite easy with proper control. It's important to build the first supply depot at ramp to see drone coming in. If you're really concerned about uber-early drone in your base, scout FOW with a worker. Best to fight it same way though, marines into the mineral line, but you'll take more damage no doubt. You can put a bunker down in a place that makes it awkward for zealot's to attack/get to workers if you go 12 rax.
|
That's an interesting take on the matter.
Do you mean that you scout the drone building a pylon and choose to go 11/11 rax out of it and rally to the mineral line? what if it's a canon rush? are you sure 2xmarines beats 2x chronoboosted zealots without too much scv loss? aren't you screwed if it's a stalker instead?
very curious about this, as it's not the answer most pros seems to go for, a replay would help
I'll try this next time I m proxy gated in unranked, until then I'll stick to the usual stuff :p
|
On May 22 2015 16:20 Gwavajuice wrote:That's an interesting take on the matter. Do you mean that you scout the drone building a pylon and choose to go 11/11 rax out of it and rally to the mineral line? what if it's a canon rush? are you sure 2xmarines beats 2x chronoboosted zealots without too much scv loss? aren't you screwed if it's a stalker instead? very curious about this, as it's not the answer most pros seems to go for, a replay would help I'll try this next time I m proxy gated in unranked, until then I'll stick to the usual stuff :p
You get a quicker bunker with a single 11 rax if you're against cannon rush, and by that time you'll know if it's cannon or prox gate.2 gateway builds are typically not in your main and hit a bit later. I wall in TvP.If it's 2 zealot's into stalker, 11/11 is totally fine.
Good luck
|
Does it bother you so much to pull 4 workers and don't even allow him to finish a gateway unit? I don't see any reason to allow him to build units if you scout it early enough.
|
On May 22 2015 20:49 KingAlphard wrote: Does it bother you so much to pull 4 workers and don't even allow him to finish a gateway unit? I don't see any reason to allow him to build units if you scout it early enough.
No.. I just I find this way more effective.
|
So let's imagine I wanna attack the gate that is being built. How many Scvs would it actually take to prevent any Zealots to come out from a single gateway, when I attack it right when it was placed?
|
On May 23 2015 04:00 Phaenoman wrote: So let's imagine I wanna attack the gate that is being built. How many Scvs would it actually take to prevent any Zealots to come out from a single gateway, when I attack it right when it was placed?
To be able to kill a gateway before a zealot pops you need 5 scvs attacking it.
|
this is the correct move after you see the proxy gateway or scout that it is happening in your base
1) pull 7-8 scvs 2) attack gateway, zealot should never pop out. 3) put down command center and play macro game from ahead
|
On May 23 2015 06:24 EJK wrote: this is the correct move after you see the proxy gateway or scout that it is happening in your base
1) pull 7-8 scvs 2) attack gateway, zealot should never pop out. 3) put down command center and play macro game from ahead Well if you don't scout it early enough for that, you can put down a bunker as the zealot pops and as long as you micro well (don't ever lose a marine and pull back hurt scvs) you shouldn't lose much and still be ahead, right? I never have any problems with this as long as I micro well.
edit: this is assuming only 1 gate, of course
|
On May 23 2015 03:47 -Hammer- wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2015 20:49 KingAlphard wrote: Does it bother you so much to pull 4 workers and don't even allow him to finish a gateway unit? I don't see any reason to allow him to build units if you scout it early enough.
No.. I just I find this way more effective. What do you mean by more effective? It sounds like you are delaying your tech/expo for a long time. But I can see it if you immediately counter attack with marines and plan on winning right then.
|
On May 23 2015 07:45 Bojas wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2015 06:24 EJK wrote: this is the correct move after you see the proxy gateway or scout that it is happening in your base
1) pull 7-8 scvs 2) attack gateway, zealot should never pop out. 3) put down command center and play macro game from ahead Well if you don't scout it early enough for that, you can put down a bunker as the zealot pops and as long as you micro well (don't ever lose a marine and pull back hurt scvs) you shouldn't lose much and still be ahead, right? I never have any problems with this as long as I micro well. edit: this is assuming only 1 gate, of course
I find that the best way is to put the deppot near the ramp, nor in it, so you can see any probe comming in but it can't be targeted from below the ramp.
|
On May 23 2015 03:47 -Hammer- wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2015 20:49 KingAlphard wrote: Does it bother you so much to pull 4 workers and don't even allow him to finish a gateway unit? I don't see any reason to allow him to build units if you scout it early enough.
No.. I just I find this way more effective.
yeah but why don't you provide a replay? I mean it's been 5 years this build exists, people (including pros) have converged toward a solution to defend it that is more or less effective depending on the scout timing and micro battle outcome. If you found something totally new that will make this obsolete, that's terrific, but you have to back it up with proofs, biggest of which would be a replay of this strat used at high enough level.
|
On May 23 2015 17:21 Gwavajuice wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2015 03:47 -Hammer- wrote:On May 22 2015 20:49 KingAlphard wrote: Does it bother you so much to pull 4 workers and don't even allow him to finish a gateway unit? I don't see any reason to allow him to build units if you scout it early enough.
No.. I just I find this way more effective. yeah but why don't you provide a replay? I mean it's been 5 years this build exists, people (including pros) have converged toward a solution to defend it that is more or less effective depending on the scout timing and micro battle outcome. If you found something totally new that will make this obsolete, that's terrific, but you have to back it up with proofs, biggest of which would be a replay of this strat used at high enough level. I would like to see a replay as well. Then one can judge much better.
|
I would say that a better way to counter this is to pull as many scv:s as you need and target down the gate before it finishes. Imo if protoss gets the gate up youre behind.
|
On May 22 2015 16:06 -Hammer- wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2015 15:33 Phaenoman wrote: Is this actually as ez as u have put it? Last time I played this I did a 12 rax and saw the gate in the building process. Barely hold with a bunker and many scv losses.
Ur guide assumes the gate/ pylon to be scouted at 10 or at least at 11 supply. Otherwise how would u throw down double 11 rax? What, if u scout the proxy later, let's say when ur 12 rax is on the way? It's quite easy with proper control. It's important to build the first supply depot at ramp to see drone coming in. If you're really concerned about uber-early drone in your base, scout FOW with a worker. Best to fight it same way though, marines into the mineral line, but you'll take more damage no doubt. You can put a bunker down in a place that makes it awkward for zealot's to attack/get to workers if you go 12 rax. Woah, don't call Probes Drones. Don't affiliate dem cheesy Protoss with us Zergs.
|
On May 24 2015 03:28 MoosyDoosy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2015 16:06 -Hammer- wrote:On May 22 2015 15:33 Phaenoman wrote: Is this actually as ez as u have put it? Last time I played this I did a 12 rax and saw the gate in the building process. Barely hold with a bunker and many scv losses.
Ur guide assumes the gate/ pylon to be scouted at 10 or at least at 11 supply. Otherwise how would u throw down double 11 rax? What, if u scout the proxy later, let's say when ur 12 rax is on the way? It's quite easy with proper control. It's important to build the first supply depot at ramp to see drone coming in. If you're really concerned about uber-early drone in your base, scout FOW with a worker. Best to fight it same way though, marines into the mineral line, but you'll take more damage no doubt. You can put a bunker down in a place that makes it awkward for zealot's to attack/get to workers if you go 12 rax. Woah, don't call Probes Drones. Don't affiliate dem cheesy Protoss with us Zergs.
Zerg scum..
|
On May 23 2015 07:45 Bojas wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2015 06:24 EJK wrote: this is the correct move after you see the proxy gateway or scout that it is happening in your base
1) pull 7-8 scvs 2) attack gateway, zealot should never pop out. 3) put down command center and play macro game from ahead Well if you don't scout it early enough for that, you can put down a bunker as the zealot pops and as long as you micro well (don't ever lose a marine and pull back hurt scvs) you shouldn't lose much and still be ahead, right? I never have any problems with this as long as I micro well. edit: this is assuming only 1 gate, of course you should scout it early enough if you send a scv out to scout, that is the #1 purpose of the 14 scv scout to see whether your opponent has a gateway in his base or not. If you don't scout it, you should die if the protoss plays it out correctly
|
Canada8157 Posts
I tend to just stay on 1 barracks after scouting it, and drop a bunker in the gas line. I really don't think 2 rax is necessary to hold this, the important thing is to keep your SCVs alive.
|
|
|
|