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Replays TvZ Game 1 TvZ Game 2
Background I am a Diamond player and I play mech in all matchups. I normally do ok in TvZ. Against standard play or greedy play I am quite confident but I have problems against very aggressive play with 1 or 2 base baneling bust . Against greedy play I go into very aggressive mine/tank play with lots of factories and late upgrades. Against standard play I aim for the late game with 6 Factories/6 Starports turtle behind planeteries unitl I can kill him. Against aggressive play I have no idea.
The games In both games he did a fast baneling bust (1 base in one of the game, early 2 base baneling bust in the other one). Even though I deflected the attacks I think I took too much damage in both games. Also since I was in recovery mode I had problems getting enough of an army fast enough to be able to claim and protect my 3rd on time.
My Mistakes It seems building bunkers behind the wall is almost useless against an early baneling bust? The Zerglings just ignore the bunkers and run straight to the center of my base preventing any mining. Even though I invest in a relative fast tank it is not out fast enough to hold the bust without taking damage. I also had no idea what game plan I should follow afterwards, play greedy, go for a mid game timing attack or aim for late game turtle behind planeteries?
Questions 1. What should I do differently to take less damage from the bust? 2. What should be my game plan after holding the bust?
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Canada8157 Posts
1. Don't cancel your second command center, especially if it's being made in your main base. Off of a one base baneling bust, there's absolutely no chance that you'll can hold your natural, so you did a good job of staying in your base. You stopped marines at three, and then your barracks sat idle for a while before resuming production. Had you continued marine production, it would have made it easier to hold the bust.
You also lost a marine because it was too close to your wall, and the baneling splash killed it. Keep your marines next to your bunker, and get them in there as soon as it completes. You could have potentially had 5 marines in total with constant production and keeping them alive, instead you were left with 1 when the bust happened.
2. Play for the macro game. You did well with dropping a second and third command center, but your economy was hindered early on with too much of an investment into those two bunkers at your wall, and almost no marines to fill both of them. Focus on getting your economy rolling, you have 0 potential to get any damage done any time soon, so the only option you are left with is to macro up and play the long game.
Game 2 is much of the same, don't stop marine production, re-wall your wall right after the bust happens to prevent more lings from flooding your base, and macro up.
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Hi! I play mech as well in TvZ and got a lot of succes. Diamond T player as well. I usually finish top 40 every season. I had a lot of issues vs aggressive Zerg. I opened hellion banshee every game. Tried reaper into hellion/banshee, 1raxFE into hellion/banshee or only hellion opening and sometimes blue flame hellion openings. Anyways I died a lot to early 1 base baneling, 7roach, 2 base baneling, ling roach, baneling roach and two base mutas, so I figured out the most vulnerable timings and what units I need to defend. I also was looking for one single opening to defend whatever cheese Z throw you and I find it. I never ever lose before 14 mins.
I will resume it shortly and if you are interested to see more details PM me and I will send you my replays. Many times Z even call me maphacker because I scout too late, but you will see my BO is so good, you dont need to worry about dying before 14 mins.
I open 1 rax FE. build 6 marines and take 2 main gases as soon as you have money while building the CC in your natural.
SCV makes bunker when finish your CC in natural and keep making depts to wall your natural. this SCV will keep making depots nonstop till 200. later you will need another one to help him building two depots at same time.
when hit 100 gas make factory. next 25 gas Tech lab on your Rax. Surprised? you need 5-6 marines and then the TL on rax. These marines help me hunt first overlord, defend the natursl of early 6 slowlings and keep scouting overlord out of my main.
Put factory on TL and make a tank. the rax will build reactor, while the SCV which buil 1st factory will build another factory. make 2nd tank and siege them in your natural with wall and bunker. take the two gases in your natural as soon as you have money even if you got only one worker in each. Put workers in gas as soon as they pop from natural OC or come from you main after you got 16 up there. when 2nd factory finish put it on the reactor, the rax was buulding and make two hellions. the rax will beginn another reactor, while your idle worker will begin Starport.
These two hellions are your scout as well as your marines. Four of them in bunker, one behind and one as ward. If ward dies and see lot of speedlings, prepare for banelings around 7 mins. put SCV to try repair bunker and FOCUS BANELINGS WITH TANKS. they will die before touch your bunker. same for roach bane or more than 7 roaches. the two hellions were to scout your natural and the space in front. send one in Zs main to check Lair timing and the other one to check 3rd hstchery timing. whatever you see will help you make next decisions.
Meanhile put Starport on reactor from rax and build Two Vikings. Send them both borders of map hunting overlords. keep making two vikings non stop when possible.
build armory and ebay arround 8 mins. If you see lot of lings and roaches keep making tanks and widow mines from your two factories. same for two base roach or 3 base mass roach +1 +1. stop making vikings if you see this after you first two. tanks and mines will help you defend any timing and cheese.
if you see two base muta began making thors and keep producing two vikings from starport. you got ebay for turrets as well. make hellions and research blue flame. the moment mutas come to you, 9-10 mins, send hellions to 3rd or natursl to try make damage or keep mutas home. One thor and 4 vikings will keep mutas far from your house.
if there is no aggression make two thors two vikings and try scout with hellions or scan, Zs tech choice. Begin +1 attack,make 3rd cc and three more factories with TL each. take you 3rd as soon as possible and build one turret in each base and Sensor Tower to see enemy coming.
Now you got three bases and 5 factories and 1 Starport. Build tanks, hellbats and vikings for roach hydra viper or thors hellbats vikings for mass muta into corrupter broodlord. Tanks hellbats and medivacs kill ultras easy even without sieging. Scan their army composition while upgrading and expanding. They will attack you. Dont attack till you got 180 suply. Send 8-10 hellions to harass 4th, 3rd and deny 5th and 6th.
Try this and if you got any problem, PM, add me ingame and I will help you.
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I've been having success vs Diamond Zergs as a platinum terran. Been doing the safest possible CC first with some modifications to what I scout so here's my build and scouting reactions:
14 CC (High ground) 15 Barracks (Complete walloff) 16 Gas
17 - SCV scout This 1st scout has 1 purpose. Find zerg's gas timing and whether he went pool/hatch first. And also to find where the zerg spawned on 4 player maps.
-Build SCV until 18 supply, leave 1 for first marine, start bunker on low ground as soon as barracks finishes -2 marines, then factory + reactor
Did you scout the zerg mining gas? If so I elect to complete the wall off before throwing down the 3rd CC.
-3rd CC
100% Factory: -switch onto reactor, 2 hellions, then 2 mines -starport, TechLab on barracks -Next 100 gas, Armory -100% starport, switch onto techlab, banshee
Second scout: 2 hellions -Checks timing of 3rd -Pokes up ramp to check queen count and defending units -Kill a creep tumor (hopefully)
If I see no 3rd then I prepare for allin. -Extra bunker or 2 -Keep making banshees -Extra set of widow mines, then nonstop hellbats
Hellbats and a handful of mines will absolutely shred any 2 base bane bust if you have good positioning. Hell, Bomber did it vs Life (GSL ro16, King Sejong Station) with just pure hellbats IIRC. You can tell he prepared himself and this defense for Life in particular. Life broke his natural wall then just ran into a Hellbat simcity and all his shit died.
If I do see a 3rd, prepare to attack it -2 x Hellions at a time (faster rally) -Move out with 8-10 hellions and 1 banshee -Turn into hellbats outside 3rd -Attack 3rd
This attack can be held off but it's difficult to do: If zerg scouts you going 3CC after a 14CC the reaction is either turbo cheese or turbo greed. Assuming here that they go with turbo greed, they're typically droning, getting +1/+1 and transitioning to lair at around that time. So I like to let them scout the 3rd CC and kill the overlord before throwing down armory. Unless they went blind roaches or can make enough banelings to clean it up, that 3rd hatch is going down.
As I move out I get all my production up. 5-6 extra barracks, 2 ebays, 2nd + 3rd gas. As a biomine vs Z player I get the other gases waaaaay later than a mech player would. You'll have to figure out the gas timing for yourself. One gas off 14CC will still leave you with 200gas as the starport finishes - you can invest that into cloak or armory. I chose the safer option.
As for a ONE base bane bust...
Hopefully its not a 4 player map. If not, then your first SCV should be able to scout the gas and complete lack of a hatch. You can't hope to hold the natural vs 1 base (Your first two hellions will be still building because it hits 6:15) so just keep your 14CC on that high ground and then continuously build simcity around the ramp.
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Hi, Gaskal!
REad the post carefully. We are talking about TvZ MECH.
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On May 31 2015 22:11 Dvriel wrote: Hi, Gaskal!
REad the post carefully. We are talking about TvZ MECH. Yeah I know, the build can transition into mech. As I said all you'd have to do is throw down the other gases earlier. Then you just drop 2 extra factories and the 2nd armory where I'd be throwing down extra barracks and ebays instead. Only diff being production structures. The quick 1st armory allows you to crank out a Thor in case of fast muta.
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