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Hey guys, can you please help me about it? I just know proxy rax marines 8-8-8 and proxy reaper 11-11. Maybe a factory landing on the enemy base can be utile to produce widow mines, but do exists another terran cheese.
I have another question too, Idk if my topic is correct, I am trying to put so much information about the question to make it valid. I always play macro as terran and I want to know how can I do to play bio on two bases only. Can you help me please?
Thank you guys for your time. If my topic is invalid, please tell me why, I already read the topic about how to create topic.
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You can always proxy production. Thor and Banshee proxies exist, but are just not as viable at pro level. We need to know your skill level to help you here, because existence is not the same as viability.
In TvT, you can also proxy marauder. If your opponent scouts that, only get three marauders and snipe supply depots from the low ground with the floating proxy barracks. Dont forget to build an ebay and a factory for widow mines because most of the time your opponent will counter with banshees. If not, get at least two tanks after the mines to be ready for a marine tank push.
Also in TvT, there is a variation of the tank drop I like to play. You open 1/1/1 and build only marines, tanks and medivacs. When you have two tanks two medicavs and eight marines, you drop behind your opponents mineral line and siege there.
In TvP, cheese is almost impossible to pull of because of the mothershipcore. I only recently saw 2rax work with great bunker play and marine micro, but it is really hard to do and does not work against all protoss openers.
In TvZ, there is still 11/11. You can also open gas first into reactor hellion. Depending on what you see, you can either go allin with another factory ("hellion flood"), but only if there is no roach warren. If you scout this building, get a techlab on the barracks for marauders.
You see, there are not really the super hardcore cheeses like 10pool or proxygates, but terrans can be super aggressive early on with good transitions if they dont kill. This makes the rush weaker, but more versatile.
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Ty graNite. I am top diamond terran. I go always macro and reach until play against masters.
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Czech Republic12115 Posts
To the TvP part - you can proxy anything and win with it. Most people proxy mine drop and the next in popularity - proxy cloak banshee is dangerous, but you have to have blocked the ramp when the probe comes(or have enough marines and block the probe etc.)
It's not very used since both these build require no detection from Protoss to be successful and, honestly, when you meet a blocked ramp, the probability that something bad is happening is very high. Many Protoss players will think that it is a mine drop, so they will get the detection.
You can go proxy siege tanks, which is kinda dangerous(not expected since Overgrowth is not in map pool ). Not sure on which map this is possible now(I haven't played new maps yet).
You can go proxy rax(as in TvZ) and win, but that's more about Protoss being caught by surprise. But I think Maru did this to some P player in Proleague.
Also you can go 1-1-1 with raven and PDD, but with the recent nerf I wouldn't say it's doable. (I haven't met this since the change)
Also it is very common to play proxy mine drop on ladder, so every Protoss is scouting the surrounding for proxies, that's why it is not common to proxy, because once Protoss kills the SCV building the building, you lost the game. Edit> I mean that there are waves on ladder when every Terran will proxy factory/starport and then is the next wave, when no Terran proxy anything, because every Protoss is scouting... I am not fully awake
I am Protoss, so this is from my experience - what Terrans do to me :-) Not sure if everything is considered cheese.
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To be honest, at the pro level, there just aren't too many cheeses for terrans.
Depending on the matchup, there are all-ins that can be quite strong (Marauder hellbat all-in TvZ for example), but in terms of pure cheese, I think terrans don't have many options (especially in TvP, where there's nothing you can do to avoid everyone getting on 2 bases and starting to macro up).
=> 11/11 proxy all day err'y day
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On July 03 2015 14:27 graNite wrote:
In TvP, cheese is almost impossible to pull of because of the mothershipcore.
This might not be the correct thread for this, and as a lower league player I might be missing the point, but I´ve been wondering why this point doesn´t raise more criticism - surely it can´t be a good idea if one unit, i.e. MSC, makes cheesy or say ultra-aggressive builds in a certain matchup not viable at all?
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this has been discussed at the start of heart of the swarm, even by the TL strategy elite. still no change in sight because blizzard does only look at winrates, not at the way the game goes. with no cheese options and bad late/endgame army options, the only thing you can do is win in the midgame when you start dropping and get ahead too far or pull the workers to hit a timing.
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ty for the answer (and your initial suggestions, btw) - guess winning midgame IS the only option - I can´t remember the last time I won a 200v200 endgame fight tvp... :-(
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You can try to play factory TvP with widow mines or hellions to do probe damage and try to get ahead. Not sure if this really counts as a cheese tho.. more like harassment.
111 used to be one of the strongest cheeses but pretty much has been not viable since Hots with the Mothership core and now raven nerf.
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2 rax marine with 2-3 scvs and bunkers is acutally pretty strong TvP on 2 player maps.
1-1-1 can still work
either with a widowmine drop or a hellion marinedrop opening, attacking with 4 tanks, marines, a raven and 2 medivacs
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A build I invented for TvZ: reaper expand. then factory next to rax. reactor to rax. switch when factory completes. when the 1st factory completes build another factory in your main (a bit more hidden) and fly the rax next to the factory and start a reactor. then switch so you'll have 2 reactored factories. when the 2nd factory finishes start building an armory. pump out the whole time as much hellions as you can afford, you need to cut some scvs but with 2 orbitals it doesnt matter.
Show only 6 hellions and scout with them + reaper so that the zerg wont know whats coming. when the armory finished berzerk the zerg natural!!! skipping the reaper and building a marine or two keeps the overlord scout away from the 2nd factory. in EU diamond you'll win 90% of the matches if executed properly. this is guaranteed because I have done it. Scout for 2 base muta/roach (this build will still end the game if executed properly because good bye drones). Gets a bit trickier in mid master but it's an okay build nevertheless if you dont want to macro.
Sorry for the fast explanation, but the Ryung vs Stephano is on!
TL;DR reaper expand into 2 reactored factories and armory and a move hellbats.
This has been done on pro level with 1 reactored factory and 1 tech labbed factory and blueflame. easier to start building tanks if roach rush is coming, but in diamond pure hellbats work flawlessly even without Huk's top 3 unit control.
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There are a ton of cheeses you can pull off with terran that work all the way up to gm level. If you want to learn some very creative and interesting cheeses i would suggest checking out ruffs stream. He beats gms with things like 4 ghost drop in tvz, fast hellion / proxy banshee with proxy marauder right in the opponents base in tvt (he floats over the first barracks and lands it right in the opponents base and produces marauders right in their face... Very fun to watch), double port banshee viking all in, ect. In tvp mass reapers is fun and can also work, and in certain situations mass hellions (somebody pulled this off in 2 different series in a tournament once, I believe it was dayshi?)
Really there are a lot of great cheeses you can pull off as terran, you just have to be creative, or just copy other players who are.
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TvT :
-Proxy marauder (maru vs INno SPL 2015, Maru vs Flash SPL 2015 round 3 playoff semis, Maru vs Dream SSL 2015 s1 finals on overgroth -mass reapers (with reactors or 4 raxes) -proxy thors alone or with medivacs -ofc 11/11 proxy marines -888 proxy reapers -proxy banshees -proxy BS (this one is more for trolling)
TvP :
-11/11 (I think we had a maru vs zest not so long ago in SPL...) -proxy mines (maru vs patience in IEM katowice 2015) -proxy starport with hellions drops into an early tank/hellion/banshee/marine timing -mass repaers works sometimes too odly enough
TvZ :
-11/11 - 888 proxy reaper (sorry vs curious in spl 2015 round 2) - all the variation of hellbat pushes (with medivacs or banshees) - wierd/map specifis 2 bases pushes (example : TY vs solar SPL 2015 round 3 on EL)
Plus many more I can't remember right now cause I'm drunk and it's soon 1 am here...
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terran cheese is only limited by creativity, quite like protoss
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I have been loosing to Thor cheese in TvT, my opponent gets 2 thors than attacks with scvs to repair, its surprisingly strong. tanks are terrible early game vs thors.
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On July 10 2015 01:12 SlammerIV wrote: I have been loosing to Thor cheese in TvT, my opponent gets 2 thors than attacks with scvs to repair, its surprisingly strong. tanks are terrible early game vs thors. Tanks are great you just need to manually target the repairing SCVs and use your own SCVs as a buffer so the thors can't reach your tanks.
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A friend used to (back in Wings) do a hilarious 2-port-cloaked Banshee rush in every matchup, although that might've only worked because he was in Gold.
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On July 09 2015 23:10 Aocowns wrote: terran cheese is only limited by creativity, quite like protoss Protoss cheese is only limited by the number of their units. Take a Protoss unit, add "proxy" in front of it, and that's a good cheese build. "Proxy oracle"? Yes! "Proxy DT"? Yes! "Proxy stalker"? Yes! "Proxy observer"? Yes again!
Well, I'm being a bit unfair, there are also all the "k-gate" builds for k \in [1; 10].
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11/11 is still a strong cheese TvP. While a protoss that isn't too greedy and is reacting perfectly will be able to hold it every time, it is still a hard hold and a simple misstake can cost you the game.
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