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Hello, everyone. How are you?
I have a question, if anyone can help me, this would be really great!
I kindle new to the Sc2, i not started to play ranked yet, but i already archived wins against gold (nothing great, but i'm proud), and i'm playing zerg. Why zerg? Just because i like them, but i feel they don't make my style at all, and i was thinking, there's a a way to adapt de race for my playstyle?
My playstyle in all games that i play, is to do small things during the whole game, those things either hinder my opponent or set myself on a better position, and when i see a gap, i do a full scale attack and the game is over. I don't know if anyone here play yugioh or cardfight vanguard, but i kindle like decks who manipulate my opponent, hurt them (not destroy, just hurt like a bee sting), i don't know if this is making any sense at all, but i hope someone understand and maybe answer me.
If anyone play those cardgames, decks like: Yugioh: (Madolche, Hand/Traptrix), for Vanguard (Pale Moon or Neo Nectar).
In sc2 context, i'm feeling lack of defense for my hatcheries, and the zerg natural playstyle is just overhelm your opponent, outproducing them, attack, attack and attack again.
Finnaly, There's some way to overcoming those problems and play in a more oriented way with zerg? or i should really change to Terran/Protoss if i want this type of play?
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I'm by no means a great player but here's my 2 cents. I think zerg has by far most ways to mess with the opponent. You have the easy way and the hard way.
The easy way is change to terran and abuse drops. The hard way is stick to zerg and learn how to macro HARD. When you are used to the game mechanics then you can check out TLO style of play. He does the craziest things. Or ROOTCatZ. There are tons of stuff zerg can do to mess with opponent. Muta play, creep abuse, burrowed lings to deny expo, overseer contaminate, drops, burrowed roach runby to multiple bases, infestor harass, swarm host play, hidden expo in their base to spines queens and roaches.
I'm kinda the same and i would love to do all the things i say but i lack the apm, speed and mechanics to macro properly and mess with my opponent. First learn to macro, then the mechanics, then to scout the opponent, and lastly army compositions. If you do this you reach diamond. And in diamond you will need to learn to mess with your opponents for an edge to win.
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On August 24 2015 06:55 jolinar wrote: I'm by no means a great player but here's my 2 cents. I think zerg has by far most ways to mess with the opponent. You have the easy way and the hard way.
The easy way is change to terran and abuse drops. The hard way is stick to zerg and learn how to macro HARD. When you are used to the game mechanics then you can check out TLO style of play. He does the craziest things. Or ROOTCatZ. There are tons of stuff zerg can do to mess with opponent. Muta play, creep abuse, burrowed lings to deny expo, overseer contaminate, drops, burrowed roach runby to multiple bases, infestor harass, swarm host play, hidden expo in their base to spines queens and roaches.
I'm kinda the same and i would love to do all the things i say but i lack the apm, speed and mechanics to macro properly and mess with my opponent. First learn to macro, then the mechanics, then to scout the opponent, and lastly army compositions. If you do this you reach diamond. And in diamond you will need to learn to mess with your opponents for an edge to win.
The hard way seems good. I will try to follow some of your tips. Thx for the answer.
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I think there are a couple of routes you can take to play zerg in the way you are describing:
1. Tech switches. Since zerg has the best production in the game, we can build one army, then once it dies, we can build an entire other army of a completely different type. For example, go roach/zergling to force out collosi or tanks, then switch to mutalisks. If they eventually get an army that can handle that, then switch to something else. Playing in this way can really mess up your opponent.
2. Game knowledge. This may be a bit beyond you, since you are new, but once you learn the timings of the other opponent's, you can really exploit them .For example, open 15 pool on maps where your opponent's tend to go nexus or CC first to cancel their expansion and/or kill some workers. Go 2 base mutalisk against a mech player to pick off their workers or add-ons before their anti-air kicks in. Get some zerglings to your terran opponent's base just when they want to swap add-ons, which temporarily removes their wall. Things like that won't win you the game, but if you do enough of them, eventually your opponent will be so weakened that they will likely die to pretty much anything.
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On August 24 2015 05:08 Alstreim wrote: My playstyle in all games that i play, is to do small things during the whole game, those things either hinder my opponent or set myself on a better position, and when i see a gap, i do a full scale attack and the game is over.
This sounds, to me, very similar to how some protoss players play. Harass with zealot drops, blink stalkers, phoenix and stuff while you build a deathball and then, if you sense blood in the water, just strike with full force.
In sc2 context, i'm feeling lack of defense for my hatcheries, and the zerg natural playstyle is just overhelm your opponent, outproducing them, attack, attack and attack again.
Finnaly, There's some way to overcoming those problems and play in a more oriented way with zerg? or i should really change to Terran/Protoss if i want this type of play?
I think terran is way more "outproduce, attack, attack again" than zerg is, as the main terran style is to drop and poke until the opponent is wore down, while the correct zerg play often is to just scout and build drones until you need an army.
Just my experience though! I think all races are capable of the playstyle you want though, so experiment with it : D
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Be convinced that if the style you want to play remotely makes any sense, you can bring it to masters. If you want to use zergling harass and a muta squad to tickle your opponent while you tech to a T3 army, then so be it. Just stick to it, work on your mechanics and you'll make progress. Just remember to enjoy the game the way you like it. I've been playing PvZ with phoenix since 4 years and I still play exclusively phoenix based builds even in this shitty fast 3rd / oracles / blink meta so be sure that you can enjoy the game the way you want with every race.
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box press a click. EASY.
User was warned for this post
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What helps me a lot is to watch how the pro plays and reacts to specific race and strategies.
Identify (probably the hardest part) where you are weakest or why you lost. If Protoss canon rush at your nat always kill you. Then go online and look for pro players and see how they react. See how many drones they pull off main, how many attack a canon, how one drone blocks the canon placement how many to chase the probe.
The more I watch the pro plays and response and listening to the commentary, the more I have a greater understanding of how to response better and when to macro (or not).
Last year, I started out as gold/plat (i've been away from SC2 for about 9 months) and now i am high diamond. I still have a long way to go but I got a lot better in playing against specific plays.
If you feel your hatcheries are lacking in defense and you realize you have a load of minerals, then build some spines and spores. For me, it is not uncommon in late games to use the drones (in the main or nat bc they will be mine out soon) to build defense to prevent drops and what not.
The key for you, if you want to continue to play as zerg, is to develop that instinct to know when to drone, when to expand and when to build units or defense.
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I have been doing well with a more defensive ( passive aggressive ) style with defensive lurkers, infestors, and then teching straight to broodlords vs Protoss.
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Zerg 'cheesy' things Evo block nat. Build a hatch in opponents natural (makes creep under), cancel hatch n make an evolution chamber on the creep. this works best against toss as they usually fast expand
Steal gas. Toss needs a lot of gas to tech, taking one in the main sets them back, forces a zealot first to kill extractor and stops the zealot stalker MSC poke. Plus it's only 25 minerals and if you get good u can cancel and re make it many times
Evo block Zerg gas. Building an evo between the gas n hatch screws up the gas mining, they either get gas slow and late speed or loose minerals with 4 on gas. And when it's killed u get BROODLINGS.
Early spore vZ. DEAD OV, SUPPLY BLOCK pain in the ass. Build on edge of creep like hiding a spine w an 8 pool. With the supply block it will be hard to make units so you can typically get the spore home safe or just kill em.
Sniping low ground CCs. Typical ZvT is hatch, pool, gas, defend reaper, ward off hellion ect. 15h 14p 2 sets of lings to T nat, queens defend if reaper stays, kill the worker on the CC if the reaper doesn't chase. Obviously this needs scout, if they don't low ground CC the early lings make for easy reaper defense.
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As others have said, you can play however you want and make it work, up into masters provided you learn to play well (learn how to macro effectively while doing everything else).
But it sounds like you're also asking about how zerg is supposed to play, i.e. what is their true strength? What is their strategy founded on?
The answer to that question is in the style of their macro, which relies on larvae to build everything, including workers. Because zerg can mass economic gains faster than the other races, their chief way to get ahead is by threatening runaway development OR powerful timings, prompting various responses from opponents. In order to effectively leverage this strength of zerg against competent players, you have to learn A LOT about scouting your opponents.
It sounds like your playstyle is more about opportunism than inevitability, so I'd just concentrate on your playstyle (which zerg is totally capable of), instead of trying to fit into a certain mold.
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ew madolche. and hand/traptrix is just cheap.
But to answer your question, Zerg is actually very macro oriented in SC2. If you wish to see how a staple Zerg plays, check out soO. Basically what Zergs do for most of the early game and mid game is grow a 4 Hatchery economy and power drone while defending anything that comes their way until they get the Drone count that they desire. After building their economy do Zergs power produce armies and make endless waves to throw at their enemy.
This is why you see Terrans and Protoss constantly harassing and/or using all-ins to try and kill the Zerg to hinder their economy. This is because Zerg cannot make units and drones simultaneously due to how larva works. By forcing the Zerg to make defensive units, they cannot make Drones to power their economy.
However, judging by what you’re saying, it looks like you’re more interested in playing like Life. I would recommend checking out videos of his play and especially follow his road to championship in Blizzcon 2014. In those videos he demonstrates how he’s able to pick apart his opponent with constant harass and create openings to kill his enemy.
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Thanks for all the replies guys. Really helped me a lot.
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Zerg can definitely "decide to go all in" in a significantly shorter time than other races due to the larva mechanic. You don't really get to poke much though with anything other than lings until later
I'd say Terran are the able to do little harass pokes better than the other races, with medivacs, reapers, helions etc
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You have to abuse multitasking, speed (fast units), your mass production of roach hydra ling and your tech switches (require big economy). I would say zerg is the most difficult race to be aggressive with.
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Option 1: Use roaches. Try searching for the old school 7 roach rush. It works up to high gold. You can weaken your opponent with it or even kill them if they don't scout/respond properly. Doesn't work with Protoss though if they they have a mothership core.
Options 2. Use zerglings. 13 pool 15 gas, pull drones back to minerals after 100 gas. Just keep on harassing your opponent with lings/ speedlings. Expand when you have 300 extra minerals. Don't wait for your expansion to finish before building queens. Always have 1 or 2 extra queens which you also need for creep spread and defense early game. Build replacement armies during engagements.
Always have macro hatcheries. Sacrifice an overlord to scout @ 6-7 min mark. You should always be 1 base ahead of your opponent. Use hotkeys. Use rally points. and a lot more to learn when playing as zerg.
And oh.. read forum threads from Team Liquid =)
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