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I've been struggling a lot with TvP mech matchup recently ever since cyclone got nerfed.
I find that lots of protoss goes adept prism into skytoss and I can't really adequetly counter it- Cyclones not as good and widow mines do massive firendly fire damage that does mroe harm than good-Vikings kinda lose to void ray/tempest/carrier or whatever skytoss combinations any suggestions? I've been having hell a lot more trouble in lotv tvp than I ever did during hots.
I'm also struggling balancing gases out since the new units in cyclone and liberator cost so much
How are you guys handling it?
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I dont do mech tvp but in general are you doing gas early? gas before supply, then rack and gas again should give u ample gas for your cyclone to open and set you up.
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On November 21 2015 05:16 OhThatDang wrote: I dont do mech tvp but in general are you doing gas early? gas before supply, then rack and gas again should give u ample gas for your cyclone to open and set you up.
Gas before supply is a thing? I always went depo gas rax!
I always go reaper expand but towards end of 1/1/1 and setting up defensive mines and making cyclone, I find I have no gas but tons of minerals
Then I die to all in
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if you have a lot of minerals maybe invest in hellions to harass while just working on your econ at home? Unfortunately like i stated I dont enjoy mech tvp and wouldnt know what to do but! if gas is your issue than gas depot rax
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Ground mech is really really bad now I think, too immobile to defend all bases and it seems also impossible to survive the early game with it. Cyclones are not efficient, they cost too much. The only way mech could maybe work is skyterran with hellion banshee liberator, but only because the liberator is so good and then we still have the problem to survive early harassment with prism, adpet, oracle etc.
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I did some theorycrafting, and I feel you can probably do Marine/Tank/Banshee into Hellbat/Thor/Liberator as a midgame composition, and then switch to Sky terran during lategame. I feel if you wanna keep some semblance of mobility you have to transition off of tanks. Warp Prism is a very big problem.
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I struggle with the same problem. In WoL I could mech fine vs toss, in HotS it was adapting, but after a while it also worked fine, but for now I can't make it work in LotV.
I used to go reaper expand too, but I gave up on the reapers. Granted it isn't making me win more, but I used to go reapers for combination of scouting and keeping him a bit busy. However with how fast they die to adapts I just don't bother anymore. The problem is that now I do lose any kind of early on map control, so I need to make sure I got defense faster.
After that I used to go banshees. Again it gives info, and it keeps the toss at home, and it should also deal some damage. In addition in fights once their detection is down they got to retreat. However in LotV the combination of large chance on an air opener, the new photon overcharge which makes shooting a pylon already very risky, and otherwise fast many gates + robo (for the warp prism drop) makes also this not viable for me. This is also for reapers kinda irritating, being two shotted by a photon overcharge right in msc creation.
Without the uber tempests anymore late game I make battlecruisers again (with support obviously), but it is really long ago I even got there. And even then the release interceptors is still hard to deal with.
I tried cyclones, but while I really like them, I just don't see them working defensively with their pricetag. (Also offensively questionable imo, but okay). Liberators yes, if the toss does a frontal assault. Against warp prism drops (blink) stalkers should quite easily take them out, and even zoning out adapts seems to me rather impossible before they decimated your mineral lines. I have beaten warp prism play, but generally by investing so much in defense (missile turrets, widow mines and bunkers), that I had lost the game even if he wouldn't do any damage.
Against new zerg toys I also struggled, but in the end adapter by switching to largely skyterran (mid game back to more ground, late game back to more air). But I simply haven't found anything which works reasonable vs toss, so any ideas are welcome for me too.
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I use to be a Master-Mech-Player in Hots. I tried about 30 Toss game to play mech. As for now, i think Mech is dead in tvp. Due to adept u lose all map control, which u really need. Hellion harras with drop and so on did play a big factor in hots, due to the new photonovercharge they do nothing, especially with adept support.
The first big Problem is the warpprism, there are sooo many all ins involved with its. 5 Gate adept all in at 4.10 min, even if u hold it, u take so much damage that ur are in a bad spot. Than there is a 7 gate proxy robo warpprism all in at 5.10 min which is just nasty and u cant really counterattack with mech due to spamming overchrage.
The second problem are the manny other all ins which are still very strong and u need to scout them early or ur are dead with mech.
Even if the toss player doesnt play a all in, the permanent threat of warpprism makes u paranoid as a mech terran, so u overcompensate with to much defense in terms of turrets or liberator/vikings and u get economally behind.
Than there is the next problem, that witht new toss compositions, toss got much more mobile. I lost a lot of games against stalker, disrupter. The toss just dance around ur mech and kites u alot with disrupter. Which do insane damage to tanks.
Even if the toss is playing very defensive and fast tech into skytoss u will have a hard time vs carrier, voidray, tempest, HT.
So i stoped playing mech in tvp and do fine with bio. The match up has change. Terran does quiet well right now in the lataegame with liberator support. So i would suggest to stop playing mech in tvp.
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I'm not going to release my builds but all I can say is that mech is very fun to play in lotv, I am flattening opponents right now.
I am a top 16 NA gm level terran player if anyone cares.
Mech is very well and alive and expect to see it in lotv as a standard to play the game. It is also many times more complex than bio and you shoudln't expect to win right off the bat until after you have some experience playing mech
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On November 26 2015 06:20 EJK wrote: I'm not going to release my builds but all I can say is that mech is very fun to play in lotv, I am flattening opponents right now.
I am a top 16 NA gm level terran player if anyone cares.
Mech is very well and alive and expect to see it in lotv as a standard to play the game. It is also many times more complex than bio and you shoudln't expect to win right off the bat until after you have some experience playing mech
Really curious now :p. I'm guessing it involves cyclone liberator hellion?
I had lots of success during beta with cyclone tank liberator hellbat mine composition but ever since hp cuange, it quite hasn't been same for me at least-huge part being cyclone can't deal with capital ships in combination with liberators
Your hots style involved lots of banshees too I remember-I mainly prefers pure ground mech so I am not too familiar in sky department.
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On November 26 2015 09:33 jinjin5000 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2015 06:20 EJK wrote: I'm not going to release my builds but all I can say is that mech is very fun to play in lotv, I am flattening opponents right now.
I am a top 16 NA gm level terran player if anyone cares.
Mech is very well and alive and expect to see it in lotv as a standard to play the game. It is also many times more complex than bio and you shoudln't expect to win right off the bat until after you have some experience playing mech Really curious now :p. I'm guessing it involves cyclone liberator hellion? I had lots of success during beta with cyclone tank liberator hellbat mine composition but ever since hp cuange, it quite hasn't been same for me at least-huge part being cyclone can't deal with capital ships in combination with liberators Your hots style involved lots of banshees too I remember-I mainly prefers pure ground mech so I am not too familiar in sky department. it's a bit more complicated then that, theres a rock paper scissors game.
Also cyclones cant deal with liberators...lol thats funny :D
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On November 26 2015 10:10 EJK wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2015 09:33 jinjin5000 wrote:On November 26 2015 06:20 EJK wrote: I'm not going to release my builds but all I can say is that mech is very fun to play in lotv, I am flattening opponents right now.
I am a top 16 NA gm level terran player if anyone cares.
Mech is very well and alive and expect to see it in lotv as a standard to play the game. It is also many times more complex than bio and you shoudln't expect to win right off the bat until after you have some experience playing mech Really curious now :p. I'm guessing it involves cyclone liberator hellion? I had lots of success during beta with cyclone tank liberator hellbat mine composition but ever since hp cuange, it quite hasn't been same for me at least-huge part being cyclone can't deal with capital ships in combination with liberators Your hots style involved lots of banshees too I remember-I mainly prefers pure ground mech so I am not too familiar in sky department. it's a bit more complicated then that, theres a rock paper scissors game. Also cyclones cant deal with liberators...lol thats funny :D
I meant cyclone+liberator cant really deal with carrier/tempest now >.< since it can't really get close without getting hit and its dps getting shat on as cyclones fall
Yea theres lot more rock paper cissors game for sure depending on opposition composition. But I am bit struggling on stopping protoss from getting to skytoss tech and combating it
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On November 26 2015 10:35 jinjin5000 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2015 10:10 EJK wrote:On November 26 2015 09:33 jinjin5000 wrote:On November 26 2015 06:20 EJK wrote: I'm not going to release my builds but all I can say is that mech is very fun to play in lotv, I am flattening opponents right now.
I am a top 16 NA gm level terran player if anyone cares.
Mech is very well and alive and expect to see it in lotv as a standard to play the game. It is also many times more complex than bio and you shoudln't expect to win right off the bat until after you have some experience playing mech Really curious now :p. I'm guessing it involves cyclone liberator hellion? I had lots of success during beta with cyclone tank liberator hellbat mine composition but ever since hp cuange, it quite hasn't been same for me at least-huge part being cyclone can't deal with capital ships in combination with liberators Your hots style involved lots of banshees too I remember-I mainly prefers pure ground mech so I am not too familiar in sky department. it's a bit more complicated then that, theres a rock paper scissors game. Also cyclones cant deal with liberators...lol thats funny :D I meant cyclone+liberator cant really deal with carrier/tempest now >.< since it can't really get close without getting hit and its dps getting shat on as cyclones fall https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/3uapqa/ground_mech_61k55k_vs_sky_toss_107k58k/
you can eat your words whenever you want
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On November 26 2015 11:35 EJK wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2015 10:35 jinjin5000 wrote:On November 26 2015 10:10 EJK wrote:On November 26 2015 09:33 jinjin5000 wrote:On November 26 2015 06:20 EJK wrote: I'm not going to release my builds but all I can say is that mech is very fun to play in lotv, I am flattening opponents right now.
I am a top 16 NA gm level terran player if anyone cares.
Mech is very well and alive and expect to see it in lotv as a standard to play the game. It is also many times more complex than bio and you shoudln't expect to win right off the bat until after you have some experience playing mech Really curious now :p. I'm guessing it involves cyclone liberator hellion? I had lots of success during beta with cyclone tank liberator hellbat mine composition but ever since hp cuange, it quite hasn't been same for me at least-huge part being cyclone can't deal with capital ships in combination with liberators Your hots style involved lots of banshees too I remember-I mainly prefers pure ground mech so I am not too familiar in sky department. it's a bit more complicated then that, theres a rock paper scissors game. Also cyclones cant deal with liberators...lol thats funny :D I meant cyclone+liberator cant really deal with carrier/tempest now >.< since it can't really get close without getting hit and its dps getting shat on as cyclones fall https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/3uapqa/ground_mech_61k55k_vs_sky_toss_107k58k/you can eat your words whenever you want
dayum. Pure cyclone hellion/liberator vs that composition eh? Usually widow mines fuck me over more than it helps and odd disruptor/storm too.
But mainly mines.
Worked in hots but not sure about more fragile cyclone
Got any tip vs compositions? I havent qutie foudn it yet.
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On November 26 2015 06:20 EJK wrote: I'm not going to release my builds but all I can say is that mech is very fun to play in lotv, I am flattening opponents right now.
I am a top 16 NA gm level terran player if anyone cares.
Mech is very well and alive and expect to see it in lotv as a standard to play the game. It is also many times more complex than bio and you shoudln't expect to win right off the bat until after you have some experience playing mech Sorry, but you get a 0/10 on the useful post scale. Why bother posting if you only want to write: "Hahahaha loser I know how to help you but I refuse to help you". Not posting would be better.
Same for that gif, nice, but if you remove the upgrade levels, and how you got there, it is pretty pointless. And hey, I perfectly understand you prefer at least not to tell exactly how you do it, but if you refuse to tell anything, whats the point of posting in a topic where people ask for help, besides rubbing it in? Okay, we do now maybe know we can do it if we keep searching, but your condescending posts were not required to make that happen.
My feeling in that gif is they have low air attack upgrades, but of course I can't proof that. Personally when I didn't have a gigantic advantage vs the toss air armada, the times I managed to win was by having enough minerals piled up to build a mass missile turret field right outside their base, and an own battlecruiser + support army on top of it. If possible also augmented with some widow mines, where the splash of the widow mines then would be on top of the missile turrets instead of on top of my own vikings/liberators.
By the way, I can imagine that cyclones could despite their price tag work early on against the standard warp prism play by focussing down the prism if it tries to do anything. However at the same time I don't see how with a few cyclones you would stop him if he just instead warps in outside your base some rounds of units and goes for the frontal assault instead: In my experience they just don't deal well enough with stalkers already.
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i was aiming more along the lines of "don't give up its possible! if i can do it you can do it"
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I too, am curious as to how one is able to get that composition without straight up dying in the early to midgame.
Cyclones are good defense against harassment but not against an early assault. Marine/Tank/Liberator into Hellion/Cyclone/Liberator maybe?
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On November 26 2015 16:49 EJK wrote: i was aiming more along the lines of "don't give up its possible! if i can do it you can do it"
a little hint for fellow terran?
or is it trade secret
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On November 26 2015 16:49 EJK wrote: i was aiming more along the lines of "don't give up its possible! if i can do it you can do it" While it won't actual help us alot, can you at least tell what upgrade levels were involved in that gif?
On November 26 2015 16:52 HeroMystic wrote: I too, am curious as to how one is able to get that composition without straight up dying in the early to midgame.
Cyclones are good defense against harassment but not against an early assault. Marine/Tank/Liberator into Hellion/Cyclone/Liberator maybe? However unless you are seriously investing in marines, how are you then going to stop the warp prism attack. A frontal assault you probably can stop with that, but then got the issue if they just drop in your main you have a problem there. Hellion cyclone works fine vs that, but I don't see it stopping a frontal assault.
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On November 26 2015 19:09 Sissors wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2015 16:49 EJK wrote: i was aiming more along the lines of "don't give up its possible! if i can do it you can do it" While it won't actual help us alot, can you at least tell what upgrade levels were involved in that gif? Show nested quote +On November 26 2015 16:52 HeroMystic wrote: I too, am curious as to how one is able to get that composition without straight up dying in the early to midgame.
Cyclones are good defense against harassment but not against an early assault. Marine/Tank/Liberator into Hellion/Cyclone/Liberator maybe? However unless you are seriously investing in marines, how are you then going to stop the warp prism attack. A frontal assault you probably can stop with that, but then got the issue if they just drop in your main you have a problem there. Hellion cyclone works fine vs that, but I don't see it stopping a frontal assault. i was waiting on protoss to do something other than just sit there but it didnt happen
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