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I noticed recently 90% of zergs I match in NA open pool first with fast speedlings.
If I open standard nexus first into 2 gate pressure, i simply loose, because 8 lings are in my base at 2:00 and I have no units to defend myself.
I usually scout after first pylon, so I manage to scout this kind of opening. Tried also a forge with cannon instead of adding the 2nd gate, still I wonder if this is the correct answer, because it delays my msc and tech path a lot, keeping me on defense while zerg go greedy with 2 more hatcheries. Also doing forge expose me greatly to drops, since as said before, i delay cyber and anti air.
Is this strategy still viable at all or the standard should be gate - gas -nexus? I also seen some proes in streaming prefer to open gate nexus instead of nexus first...
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But otherwise you are so much behind
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it still, like it was...and like you described...Viable, but not too flexible.. Scout after pylon -> see pool, go gate-forge-cyber. Its ok ansewer, but still. Gate-Gas is just more flexible and better opening.
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It's viable but you need to scout.
Going Nexus first gives you an advantage but delays your tech / adepts.
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do standart 1 gate 1 gas into scout, if u see fast lings incoming, there will be time to make wall off/zealot and cybercore, if u see exp first than u go for ur nexus after gateway
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Viable on Dusk towers. Wouldn't do it in any map that doesn't have pocket natural.
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On May 02 2016 04:01 Alluton wrote: Viable on Dusk towers. Wouldn't do it in any map that doesn't have pocket natural.
Or if you random, if you random into playing Protoss you can usually get away with a nexus 1st build as long as you scout and respond to a fast pool with no expo by getting a fast forge+gateway to complete your wall.
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Sure it's viable as in you can safely open Nexus first on most maps, but you essentially get your Nexus down ~20s faster compared to Gate Nexus, so it's not hugely impactful on your economy like it was in the past. Should come down more to how you want the game to develop in the mid game. Seeing as how PvZ is dominated with Phoenix openers most choose Gate Nexus to get out faster Phoenixes, but I think Nexus first is an interesting opener in gateway heavy timings as you can incorporate a very early forge and upgrades.
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2:00 is the time for a 12 pool arriving at your base. Nexus first auto loses vs 12 pool except for maps with an base natural where you can both wall off the ramp + keep your natural alive. However, you're still behind in this scenario.
What you have to understand is the nexus first is a risk. Therefore you will lose some games where there are no correct decisions. Also, by scouting on pylon after a nexus first you're removing the advantage you gain by going nexus first + you're still risking build order losses. Basically, you're just taking extra risk at this point for no reason.
- Either nexus first and don't scout and accept the risk to gain a small advantage or scout later for something useful like his third base which -opening gateway expand and scout at 17 on 2 player maps or after gate on 4 player maps. Or, don't scout at all and leave a probe at the top of the ramp with a gate/cyber wall and make a pylon to fully wall if you see lings at 2:00. Then chrono an adept or msc and you're safe.
As a general rule of thumb, open nexus first if you want to do more gate pressure/quick third/mineral high, gas low tech and open gate expo cyber if you want to get a fast tech structure or just play safer
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I always go proxy hatch-pool when I scout nexus first. Not because it's perse the best strategy (although, sometimes I win) but because it's fun.
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Nexus first will put you at an economical disadvantage in LOTV since it let's the Zerg spam drones and safe 3 hatch first before pool, especially on prion.
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On May 02 2016 17:23 Dumbledore wrote: Nexus first will put you at an economical disadvantage in LOTV since it let's the Zerg spam drones and safe 3 hatch first before pool, especially on prion.
How do you punish a zerg who goes for 3 hatcheries before pool if you go for gateway exp anyway? And if PvZ on prion is a nightmare as people say, why do you even play it? I veto that map.
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Zurich15227 Posts
Please use the Simple Q&A or Protoss thread for simple questions like this next time
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