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Been experimenting with another idea, can't guarantee it'll work past dai but here it is:
Open 2 rax, 2 gas, get tech labs on both rax, get 2 additional rax, research stim and combat shields. Get reactors on the other 2 rax, pull scvs from gas back onto minerals once you have 100 additional gas, after the upgrades and the addons.
Now here's the weird part.
After the research finishes for stim and combat shields you DESTROY your tech labs and replace them with reactors for a total of 4 reactor rax and PUMP pure marine, making sure you don't get supply blocked.
This is all on 1 base, expand behind the pressure, resume gas mining if additional tech is needed due to money force fields going into the main (shouldn't be needed if you stim up the ramp and use vision to snipe the sentries, doesn't matter if you take a cost inefficient trade if you're sniping sentries due to the sheer amount of marines rallying out of 4 reactor rax).
mod edit:
On May 15 2016 18:31 BabelFish1 wrote:Here's the last replay I did this in, my opponent wasn't the best but since I play random, I'm not digging through the last 3 days to find more. http://ggtracker.com/matches/6641163and another http://ggtracker.com/matches/6641288This opponent at least was trying to do a 1 gate FE, was pretty tired so my spending wasn't overly efficient. But it doesn't matter, you'll notice I threw away my 1st group of marines trying to bait out more photon overcharges so the follow up could push through more easily.
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wouldn't you be crazy behind if you don't make a cost efficient trade? Since you'll be on 1 base for so long?
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Not commenting on the build, but since you mention words like "expand" and "additional tech" surely it must be worth to NOT DESTROY the techlabs, as to have them lying round for further use, and just lift and reposition the rax with reactors instead even if that might take an additional 2 secs or am I missing something?
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you cant support 4 reactor rax on one base afaik
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On May 15 2016 18:07 yoshi7319b wrote: Not commenting on the build, but since you mention words like "expand" and "additional tech" surely it must be worth to NOT DESTROY the techlabs, as to have them lying round for further use, and just lift and reposition the rax with reactors instead even if that might take an additional 2 secs or am I missing something?
In theory you could just as easily keep 1 scv on each gas and plop down 2 factories or whatever once you have enough gas. You don't have to destroy them but lifting delays the reactors which in turn hurts the initial numbers of your 1st wave, which are rather important as you're relying on them to clear out anything problematic like sentries and snipe the msc if possible.
On May 15 2016 17:24 Juice! wrote: wouldn't you be crazy behind if you don't make a cost efficient trade? Since you'll be on 1 base for so long?
If you're killing sentries to allow the next wave of 8-16 marines in, you can be as inefficient as you want, stim will allow your next wave of marines to get in and clean house. Only trick is to target down those sentries at any cost since they're the gate keepers so to speak.
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On May 15 2016 18:07 yoshi7319b wrote: Not commenting on the build, but since you mention words like "expand" and "additional tech" surely it must be worth to NOT DESTROY the techlabs, as to have them lying round for further use, and just lift and reposition the rax with reactors instead even if that might take an additional 2 secs or am I missing something?
In theory you could just as easily keep 1 scv on each gas and plop down 2 factories or whatever once you have enough gas. You don't have to destroy them but lifting delays the reactors which in turn hurts the initial numbers of your 1st wave, which are rather important as you're relying on them to clear out anything problematic like sentries and snipe the msc if possible.
On May 15 2016 17:24 Juice! wrote: wouldn't you be crazy behind if you don't make a cost efficient trade? Since you'll be on 1 base for so long?
If you're killing sentries to allow the next wave of 8-16 marines in, you can be as inefficient as you want, stim will allow your next wave of marines to get in and clean house. Only trick is to target down those sentries at any cost since they're the gate keepers so to speak.
On May 15 2016 18:15 404AlphaSquad wrote: you cant support 4 reactor rax on one base afaik
You most certainly can.
On May 15 2016 18:11 Lucasmus wrote: replays?
Finding the last replay I did this in, will upload asap.
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Here's the last replay I did this in, my opponent wasn't the best but since I play random, I'm not digging through the last 3 days to find more.
http://ggtracker.com/matches/6641163
and another
http://ggtracker.com/matches/6641288
This opponent at least was trying to do a 1 gate FE, was pretty tired so my spending wasn't overly efficient. But it doesn't matter, you'll notice I threw away my 1st group of marines trying to bait out more photon overcharges so the follow up could push through more easily.
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You most certainly can.
3 workers * 8 mineral patches = 102 min/min * 8 = 816 min/min + ~270 min/min (1 mule per minute) = ~1086 min/min (not counting worker kills or mining time lost while constructing depots)
60 (seconds) / 18 (build time) * 8 (marines at a time) * 50 (minerals) = 1333 min/min + 333 minerals (3.3 supply depots per minute) = 1666 min/min
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Lol
User was warned for this post
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On May 15 2016 23:05 SHODAN wrote:3 workers * 8 mineral patches = 102 min/min * 8 = 816 min/min + ~270 min/min (1 mule per minute) = ~1086 min/min (not counting worker kills or mining time lost while constructing depots) 60 (seconds) / 18 (build time) * 8 (marines at a time) * 50 (minerals) = 1333 min/min + 333 minerals (3.3 supply depots per minute) = 1666 min/min
Replays are there for you to download and watch, I'm not arguing proven facts.
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On May 15 2016 23:48 BabelFish1 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2016 23:05 SHODAN wrote:You most certainly can. 3 workers * 8 mineral patches = 102 min/min * 8 = 816 min/min + ~270 min/min (1 mule per minute) = ~1086 min/min (not counting worker kills or mining time lost while constructing depots) 60 (seconds) / 18 (build time) * 8 (marines at a time) * 50 (minerals) = 1333 min/min + 333 minerals (3.3 supply depots per minute) = 1666 min/min Replays are there for you to download and watch, I'm not arguing proven facts.
sorry, but I only play mech. do you have any 1 base 4 reactor blue flame hellion replays?
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Why do you destroy the tech labs? ???????????????????????????
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On May 15 2016 23:59 SHODAN wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2016 23:48 BabelFish1 wrote:On May 15 2016 23:05 SHODAN wrote:You most certainly can. 3 workers * 8 mineral patches = 102 min/min * 8 = 816 min/min + ~270 min/min (1 mule per minute) = ~1086 min/min (not counting worker kills or mining time lost while constructing depots) 60 (seconds) / 18 (build time) * 8 (marines at a time) * 50 (minerals) = 1333 min/min + 333 minerals (3.3 supply depots per minute) = 1666 min/min Replays are there for you to download and watch, I'm not arguing proven facts. sorry, but I only play mech. do you have any 1 base 4 reactor blue flame hellion replays?
Nope, even with theorycrafting I don't think that would work. It's too delayed for any reasonable timing with the research, the build times, the gas needed (which plays a HUGE role in a timing) and lastly its too expensive for a single base to maintain that kind of production, you'd drain your bank and...well that's it. Reinforements would trickle in, which would just be a waste by either being useless or "win moar".
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On May 16 2016 00:22 hellokitty[hk] wrote: Why do you destroy the tech labs? ???????????????????????????
destroying the tech labs is faster than lifting/landing the raxx. that's the genius of this build. plus it confuses the hell out of your opponent
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Italy12246 Posts
Pretty sure if you dont win outright trying to transition is pointless, so might as well be a man and just bring the boys along (possibly doing this off 3rax and faster instead of 4) rather than trying to transition.
Amusing cheese tho
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guess a force field kills it, even if protoss is on 2 base. some extra pylons, and then wait for warpgate and adepts to come out.
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Destroying the tech labs makes no sense, floating the rax to build the reactors is much faster. I agree with Teoita you should bring the boys with it too because you have 0 chance to work a transition out -though floating to the natural and keep producing marines may be a possibility ^^
Amusing cheese indeed, but I doubt it has any chance to work vs someone that's willing to scout diligently.
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I imagine this might be even stronger with a gold base natural.
If you do a lot of damage, then you might pull even or be ahead even if you don't outright win, so you might not want to pull all of the boys.
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On May 16 2016 05:03 [PkF] Wire wrote: Destroying the tech labs makes no sense, floating the rax to build the reactors is much faster. I agree with Teoita you should bring the boys with it too because you have 0 chance to work a transition out -though floating to the natural and keep producing marines may be a possibility ^^
Amusing cheese indeed, but I doubt it has any chance to work vs someone that's willing to scout diligently.
That doesn't even make sense...how is lifting a building, landing it and making the reactor faster than telling your handful of marines to destroy the tech lab?
On May 16 2016 04:50 Weltall wrote: guess a force field kills it, even if protoss is on 2 base. some extra pylons, and then wait for warpgate and adepts to come out.
Adepts are AWFUL vs combat shield+stim marines, they get burst down faster than they can kill. Force Field means you're sacrificing your nat to save the main and while it does stop you from issuing a killing blow immediately without splash damage a 1 base protoss who invested into their nat isn't going to be capable of creating enough units to fight that many marines. You'd literally have 2 options at that point.
1) Dark Templar and pray for no scans 2) Disruptor and purification through the force field
On May 16 2016 04:12 Teoita wrote: Pretty sure if you dont win outright trying to transition is pointless, so might as well be a man and just bring the boys along (possibly doing this off 3rax and faster instead of 4) rather than trying to transition.
Amusing cheese tho
Problem with bringing the boys is you can't fuel the marine spam for the parade push. You'd sacrifice all your sustain for the initial push. You're trying to bleed the protoss out via inefficient trades.
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